Speaker 1: We're Tarma Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. Hello,
Speaker 1: Kitten's welcome back to another edition of the PSO. I
Speaker 1: am the Tea and your tea low Tom Fitzgeryld and
Speaker 1: I'm here with the loan and your tea. Let Lorenz
Speaker 1: and my cousin, I love the husband.
Speaker 2: And we're here. We're tab Hunter on the table, on
Speaker 2: the table. It's always here. It's so cute. We set
Speaker 2: up the equipment, we sit down, and then he jumps
Speaker 2: on the tabe immediately.
Speaker 1: Tab Hunter is our twenty two pound ginger boy cat.
Speaker 2: He is the sweetest boy.
Speaker 1: He loves us. I have to apologize. The air conditioning
Speaker 1: has kicked in big time this week, and I have
Speaker 1: air conditioning voice, which I get every summer in the beginning.
Speaker 2: Right now, I can't stand it.
Speaker 1: I apologize for my rast people, but I sound a
Speaker 1: little bit like Dale Dickey on Widow's Bay So lesbian.
Speaker 1: We'll get into that. In fact, let's map out this podcast.
Speaker 1: We're gonna do a little bit of TV talking. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a little bit of TV talk because
Speaker 1: there's Doctor Who News and I have opinions on it.
Speaker 1: Lorenzo has no opinion.
Speaker 2: On it, have no clue what so he will get.
Speaker 1: To sip his tea while I speak. Then we're going
Speaker 1: to jump in on some celebrity stuff, some of which
Speaker 1: is TikTok fueled, some of which is just in the air.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the celebrities who are courtside
Speaker 1: of the next games. We're going to talk about the
Speaker 1: latest hated rivalry, freaking fan controversy, stupid shit, and what
Speaker 1: else are we talking about? Drag Race Yes, Jenks monsoon
Speaker 1: she's gonna be on the West End. Well, she is
Speaker 1: on the West End, and just sort of the question
Speaker 1: of whether or not drag Race is actually are good
Speaker 1: at sussing out talented queens. And we'll end the podcast
Speaker 1: with a little discussion on the latest episode of Widows Bay,
Speaker 1: which we weren't planning on talking about, but there are
Speaker 1: I need to unpack a theory, So in order to
Speaker 1: do that, we'll do that at the end of the
Speaker 1: episode because it'll be all spoiler of the latest episode.
Speaker 1: My favorite uh yeah, absolutely my favorite show on my
Speaker 1: show on right now that I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's a new episode today, and I just know.
Speaker 2: That never happened.
Speaker 1: Well, it does, but like with Widows Bay, I I
Speaker 1: actually didn't wasn't a late adopter of Widow's Bay. I
Speaker 1: think like the second week maybe I had heard about
Speaker 1: it and I started watching it. But you know, these
Speaker 1: these seasons are relatively long, and the show just when
Speaker 1: you fall in love with the show, it's over.
Speaker 2: I know. But anyway, we'll talk more about it.
Speaker 1: But whatever, they are clearly setting up a season two,
Speaker 1: so oh.
Speaker 2: My god, they better and we are.
Speaker 1: Happy planning our trip to Ireland.
Speaker 2: In Scotland and Scotland we've been on.
Speaker 1: A Belfast place.
Speaker 2: Oh God, forgot to talk to you about that. But anyway,
Speaker 2: I'm glad I'm not going there.
Speaker 1: We have friends in North yeah though.
Speaker 2: Anyway, it's we've been to Ireland before, it's our first
Speaker 2: time in Scotland. I'm very excited about it, and I
Speaker 2: want to thank every one of you who emailed me.
Speaker 2: Us uh would suggest so.
Speaker 1: You emailed him please. I barely looked at them.
Speaker 2: I know they were like, this is a long random
Speaker 2: it's so cute. Anyway, so thank you so much for
Speaker 2: the emails and suggestions. I really appreciate it because you
Speaker 2: guys live there you know it's it's it's better to
Speaker 2: get suggested from local. You know, they know they know
Speaker 2: the places. Anyway, Thank you so much. I can't wait
Speaker 2: to go. It looks like paradise. It looks such like
Speaker 2: such a beautiful place.
Speaker 1: I know, I can't wait to go to. I'm getting
Speaker 1: very excited. But we are flying out on July fourth,
Speaker 1: which is saying of us, But I need to reiterate
Speaker 1: that we live three blocks from the Liberty Bill and
Speaker 1: Independence Hall and it's all ready.
Speaker 2: To getting crazy.
Speaker 1: I know it's not. I mean, Phillies July fourth celebrations
Speaker 1: are always great, but they they they're never as big
Speaker 1: as New York's and Washington d C's, which is kind
Speaker 1: of unfair because we're the whole point. But what Ebbs.
Speaker 1: But this year, this year, I can tell. I mean,
Speaker 1: the crowds are already coming, and I just want to
Speaker 1: be out of here. I do not want to be
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood when all this sure.
Speaker 2: Cleaning up everything, of fixing stuff, everything's new flowers and pots.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're trying to spruce it up. Could be wrong.
Speaker 1: I love now my neighborhood.
Speaker 2: I love my neighborhood, yes, but.
Speaker 1: Just as an aside. The shots of that fighting cage
Speaker 1: on the White House lawn. It is actually breaking my
Speaker 1: brain every time I look at it them I'm like that,
Speaker 1: what that does not compute?
Speaker 2: No, it's it's it's disgraceful. It's sad. That's the word
Speaker 2: I'm going to use right now, it's said.
Speaker 1: And I I really don't believe that the people who
Speaker 1: support this thing actually support it. I don't think they
Speaker 1: look at that and go, yeah, that's what America is
Speaker 1: all about, that's what the White House should be. They
Speaker 1: just want to piss off people like us. They want
Speaker 1: to piss off.
Speaker 2: Well, at this point, I don't give a ship what
Speaker 2: they think anymore. It's great.
Speaker 1: Did you see what the ringside? The ringside? Betsy Ross,
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm done trying to decipher these motherfuckers. So I'm done.
Speaker 2: I'm done. I just don't want.
Speaker 1: Don't say that.
Speaker 2: I just want to fight them, that's all. I don't
Speaker 2: care how they feel or think anymore, because it doesn't change,
Speaker 2: doesn't matter anyway anyway.
Speaker 1: All right, moving on to uh less contentious topics. I
Speaker 1: did want to talk briefly about Doctor Who, which you
Speaker 1: know I'm a fan of I have written extensively about
Speaker 1: over the years. I have a lot of opinions on
Speaker 1: it and this development. Russell T. Davies, who has been
Speaker 1: the showrunner for the last couple of years, and who
Speaker 1: returned to the show several years back after he relaunched
Speaker 1: it in two thousand and five and made it an
Speaker 1: international hit, brought success to the franchise that it had
Speaker 1: never really had before, and re energized it for the
Speaker 1: twenty first century. He brought it back after something like
Speaker 1: a sixteen year hiatus or was it that long, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was sixteen years, nineteen eighty nine. So I think,
Speaker 1: on one hand, Russell T. Davies deserves a lot of
Speaker 1: consideration from the fandom of Doctor Who, like he has
Speaker 1: really he brought that character, put him back on the
Speaker 1: you know, set him on a road towards a level
Speaker 1: of popularity that he had never had before. And then
Speaker 1: he came back and then he he made a lot
Speaker 1: of creative decisions that I simply I was like, what
Speaker 1: are we doing here? Most of which is unpacked. I
Speaker 1: did review most of the of his work the two seasons.
Speaker 1: I didn't do every episode because it got really repetitive
Speaker 1: and as I said near the end of the I
Speaker 1: think in the last recap we did, I said, we
Speaker 1: didn't do every episode because we just didn't want to
Speaker 1: complain all the time. It would have been nothing but complaints.
Speaker 2: So he.
Speaker 1: I want to commend him for bringing Judy got One
Speaker 1: in as the lead character. He was the he brought
Speaker 1: him in, and he was the first black man to
Speaker 1: play the character. He was the first gay man to
Speaker 1: play the character. And these were good and necessary things
Speaker 1: to push the franchise forward. And Judy was wonderful in
Speaker 1: the role. Honestly, he was so, so, so good in
Speaker 1: the role. As much as I love Jody Whittaker, who
Speaker 1: came in before him, and I really did she struggled
Speaker 1: in that role. And part of the reason she struggled
Speaker 1: in it, I think was because a she was a
Speaker 1: woman playing character exclusively played by men, and I don't
Speaker 1: think the writing ever gave her a way in on that.
Speaker 1: They tended to wave it away, and they really should
Speaker 1: have explored, Okay, your gender has changed, shouldn't you have
Speaker 1: some thoughts about it? And they just kind of waved
Speaker 1: all that away as if it didn't matter. And I
Speaker 1: think that doesn't give an actor something to work with.
Speaker 1: Right with Chudy, they actually did address the fact that
Speaker 1: he was gay for the first time, or that we
Speaker 1: knew of the character and black for the first time
Speaker 1: that we knew of and that we had so we
Speaker 1: had him dealing with, you know, racism in a way
Speaker 1: that the character had never dealt with it before or
Speaker 1: rarely dealt with it before. And I had mixed feelings
Speaker 1: about giving the character a sexual attraction, which they did
Speaker 1: in Jonathan Coffin. People loved that episode, but I kept saying, well,
Speaker 1: you know, there's like sixty years of material saying that
Speaker 1: this character doesn't fall in love that much, doesn't have
Speaker 1: an attraction to human beings. So when you make him gay,
Speaker 1: suddenly he can't control himself. There's something a little off
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: I have a question for you. I don't watch the show.
Speaker 2: I don't know much about it, but I read a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff about it, some of the backlash, of course,
Speaker 2: And my point is, do you think it was too
Speaker 2: much black and gay and too much gayness going on?
Speaker 1: I don't think there's such a thing as I know
Speaker 1: that I agree, but I do think Russell, who is
Speaker 1: a gay man himself, I think he made a point
Speaker 1: of tweaking the nose of the haters. He talked about
Speaker 1: it all the time. He talked about deliberately trying to
Speaker 1: piss them off. Remember, and uh, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: think that's the issue here. He did introduce concepts and
Speaker 1: character types. He introduced a trans character into the you
Speaker 1: know storyline, But I don't think that's the issue. First off,
Speaker 1: Doctor Who, much like the closest analog to it in
Speaker 1: America is probably Star Trek because it's a long running
Speaker 1: science fiction program, which much like Star Trek, Doctor Who
Speaker 1: has especially modern Who has always had a progressive bent
Speaker 1: right from the beginning.
Speaker 2: It was gay.
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't so much in the twentieth century,
Speaker 1: but in this century, yes it was pro gay.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It did a lot of color blind casting, it. It
Speaker 1: pushed the envelope a lot in the last twenty years
Speaker 1: on what kind of characters can I mean, it was
Speaker 1: a big deal the first time he got a black companion.
Speaker 1: That seems silly now, but it was a big deal anyway.
Speaker 1: So creatively, I think the problem with Russell T. Davies
Speaker 1: coming back into the fold is that he is an
Speaker 1: old school, old, old old timey fan, and when he
Speaker 1: brought the show back in two thousand and five after
Speaker 1: sixteen years away, he was updating all of these old
Speaker 1: concepts like the Daleks and all this, you know, the
Speaker 1: Sea Devils, whatever, and it was fun and exciting to
Speaker 1: see these things. But now we are twenty years into
Speaker 1: this reboot and he came back and start doing the same.
Speaker 1: The last thing Doctor Who needed in the twenty twenties
Speaker 1: was more looking backwards, was more, Oh, we're bringing the
Speaker 1: c Devils back, We're bringing Sue Tech back, We're you
Speaker 1: know whatever. The one thing Doctor Who needs more than
Speaker 1: anything else going forward, if it does go forward, is
Speaker 1: a complete overhaul, the same to the same extent that
Speaker 1: was done in two thousand and five. So I haven't
Speaker 1: even gotten to the announcement. Davies and the BBC were
Speaker 1: teasing some Doctor Who announcement all week long. The last
Speaker 1: time we had heard anything about Doctor Who. It was
Speaker 1: not going to continue on Disney Plus in the United States,
Speaker 1: but there was going to be a Christmas special and
Speaker 1: then they were going to figure it out going forward.
Speaker 1: So the announcement comes out this week. Surprise, there's no
Speaker 1: Christmas special. It was never scripted. Russell T. Davies came
Speaker 1: right out and said, I lied, we didn't have anything.
Speaker 1: We were trying to draw up the interest and he's off.
Speaker 1: He's they're not continuing with his production company. They are
Speaker 1: sending the franchise to tender, which is in the basically
Speaker 1: means they're looking at offers at any other production company
Speaker 1: who wants to come in and overhauld the character. Bottom
Speaker 1: line is we're not going to see new Who for
Speaker 1: probably five years.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, I mean it'll be that long.
Speaker 2: They have to, and.
Speaker 1: I just think it would be a huge mistake to
Speaker 1: bring somebody in and well, well, let's do a story
Speaker 1: about the Dolleks, let's do a story about the cyberment. No,
Speaker 1: how about you do with you just wipe the slate clean.
Speaker 1: I mean the one that one of the great things
Speaker 1: about the two thousand and five reboot was that they
Speaker 1: they didn't fuss with anything. They didn't even explain who
Speaker 1: they There was a regeneration, but we never really saw it.
Speaker 1: They just brought in a new guy and said this
Speaker 1: is the new guy, and they just kind of glossed
Speaker 1: over the less whatever had happened in the previous several
Speaker 1: years and I honestly think that's what they need to
Speaker 1: do with this is let let this go fallow for
Speaker 1: a few years and then bring do some exciting casting announcement.
Speaker 1: And if they really wanted to revitalize this franchise, they
Speaker 1: should probably go against the grain and cast an actual star,
Speaker 1: do a stunt casting.
Speaker 2: Do you know?
Speaker 1: I don't care fucking till this Swinton, I don't care.
Speaker 2: Put somebody out.
Speaker 1: People have talked about her, Oh, she would never do it,
Speaker 1: but Billy, why not? I don't think she does TV
Speaker 1: or I mean, I don't think she does TV at all.
Speaker 2: Do the stars anyway, but something like that, Do some
Speaker 2: stunt casting for a season, bring somebody in to really
Speaker 2: lend it some star power, redesign the tartists don't do.
Speaker 1: Don't explain any of it, just go full bore straight
Speaker 1: into the adventures. I don't care about the timeless child stuff,
Speaker 1: don't I really don't care about whoever Judy gotwer regenerated
Speaker 1: into at the end of that last episode. I know
Speaker 1: it's Billy Piper, but please can we forget that that
Speaker 1: ever happened? It was a terrible, terrible idea. So that's
Speaker 1: my thing on Doctor Who Is I did not greet
Speaker 1: this announcement with despair. I was like, no, this is
Speaker 1: actually what needs to happen, and I hope if they do,
Speaker 1: when and if they do come back, I hope it's
Speaker 1: it's a clean I this is sacrilege, but get rid
Speaker 1: of the police box. I'm not joking. Get rid of
Speaker 1: the police box.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: They don't even have them in Great Britain anymore. And
Speaker 1: for the last ten years of the show, the joke
Speaker 1: was always characters in Britain were like, what is that
Speaker 1: blue box? Because they don't have them anymore, you have
Speaker 1: an opportunity there. That ship can look like anything, anything
Speaker 1: at all. Imagine what you could do if you weren't
Speaker 1: locked into this sixty year old continuity. The other thing
Speaker 1: I want to suggest is I really think the show
Speaker 1: should get away from the big cosmic space stuff and
Speaker 1: get back to being a time travel show based in England.
Speaker 1: That to me was always when it was its most entertaining.
Speaker 1: They're kind of the easiest ones to shoot because you
Speaker 1: don't have to do these massive specially. You can just
Speaker 1: find some castle somewhere and shoot it there.
Speaker 2: That would be I would watch that.
Speaker 1: It used to be that that used to be the show.
Speaker 1: It was about this this goofy alien who time traveled
Speaker 1: all around England. And I really think it needs to
Speaker 1: get back to that. You need to put a star
Speaker 1: in there. You need to get rid of the tartis
Speaker 1: or the blue box, and you need to here's the thing.
Speaker 1: And again, people are gonna get mad at me, old
Speaker 1: school hoofans are gonna get mad at me. But when
Speaker 1: you look at something like Star Wars or Star Trek,
Speaker 1: the ships, the ships become iconic, they become toys, they
Speaker 1: become things that you want to be in. And he
Speaker 1: flies around in a blue box and I get it.
Speaker 1: It's cute, it's charming, it's twee tradition, but it's it's
Speaker 1: been sixty plus years. Like, maybe give him a cool ship,
Speaker 1: or maybe just give him something that goofully changes every
Speaker 1: week into something else. You have that it's written in.
Speaker 1: He has that perception filter thing. Anyway, I'm rambling in
Speaker 1: a very nerdy way. But my take is, as much
Speaker 1: as I appreciate Russell T. Davies as a gay creator
Speaker 1: and as the guy who brought and he did, he
Speaker 1: gave us queer as folk the original version, I like
Speaker 1: the guy. But he never should have come back to
Speaker 1: to uh doctor. I mean the first thing he did
Speaker 1: was bring back to David Tennant and it was a
Speaker 1: fun thing, but it was kind of a fan thing
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, it was a precursor to it. Just
Speaker 1: sort of in retrospect, it indicated that he really didn't
Speaker 1: have new ideas, and the new ideas that he did have,
Speaker 1: like talking babies in space, were just all right. So
Speaker 1: we're going to take a short break, and when we
Speaker 1: get back, Lorenzo has much in the way of celebrity
Speaker 1: stuff to talk about. We'll be right back. We're back,
Speaker 1: and now we're going to talk about the Knicks, even
Speaker 1: though we are not sports fans, not basketball fans, and
Speaker 1: not Knicks fans, but that has never stopped us from
Speaker 1: having an opinion. Actually, obviously we're not going to have
Speaker 1: an opinion on the actual games themselves. Except listen, I'm
Speaker 1: happy for New Yorkers. They are that city is thrilled
Speaker 1: in a and they deserve it. They you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just happy for them. It's great when a city has
Speaker 1: got that kind of fever going. And you know, New
Speaker 1: York has waited a long time for an NBA championship
Speaker 1: to come their way again.
Speaker 2: It almost didn't happen, you know. Yeah, and just see
Speaker 2: so the you know.
Speaker 1: The the block party, viewing parties, people putting their TVs
Speaker 1: out in the street and everything. I just love that
Speaker 1: it is so quintessentially New York. Also quintessentially New York
Speaker 1: is the heavy, heavy, heavy celebrity presence at the Games,
Speaker 1: and that is what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 2: I just I just thought it was interesting because I've
Speaker 2: always seen them, you know, attending games front row. You know,
Speaker 2: that's nothing new, But I don't remember that much attention
Speaker 2: twidst them like there is now.
Speaker 1: That's because they're a champion.
Speaker 2: I mean the feel I feel there's a lot more
Speaker 2: now attention to them, and I think it has to
Speaker 2: do with maybe Tim all May and.
Speaker 1: Of course you do and tell her swift right, they're
Speaker 1: the reason.
Speaker 2: No, they're not the reasons, but they're they're big names.
Speaker 2: I mean wherever she goes, you know, and and him
Speaker 2: and and Kyla Kylie Jenner. You know, I feel like
Speaker 2: because they're young and they're very popular because usually we're
Speaker 2: people I don't know, famous stars, but not I don't know,
Speaker 2: not on this same level. That's how I feel. But
Speaker 2: my so, I noticed a lot more attention, a lot
Speaker 2: more videos, a lot more pictures. It's because because.
Speaker 1: Part of that is because they're in the championships, and
Speaker 1: part of that is because they're in the championships, more
Speaker 1: stars are showing up, right, But there have always been
Speaker 1: stars court sided. I mean, Spike Lee and Ben Stiller
Speaker 1: have been court sided next games for years. They're known
Speaker 1: for that. Even Timothy shallow May, long before this season,
Speaker 1: was actually known for being a Knicks fan for showing
Speaker 1: up having court side seats. There was a social media
Speaker 1: post that went out earlier this week which he was
Speaker 1: apparently featured on the NIXT social media like when he
Speaker 1: was fifteen years old, right because he was some super
Speaker 1: fan at the time.
Speaker 2: I feel that the pr machine is in full force
Speaker 2: now when it comes to those front row seats. Uh,
Speaker 2: you see a lot more And he has designed and
Speaker 2: he has chrumb rit chrumb Heart's designing clothes for him,
Speaker 2: especially to attend the show. That kind of stuff. I
Speaker 2: think it's just a lot more. Uh. It feels more
Speaker 2: like a red carpet than anything else. So anyway, on
Speaker 2: TikTok and everywhere. People were kind of like complaining a
Speaker 2: little bit about that, because I understand if you were
Speaker 2: a fan, if you were if you you know, a
Speaker 2: fan of sports or whatever, and you can't afford tickets,
Speaker 2: there's always that take that you know, these people get
Speaker 2: tickets for free, and you know they get to be
Speaker 2: there and and you know they have bodyguards in front
Speaker 2: of them, disrupting the whole thing. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But I just want to say it. Last night Ben
Speaker 1: Stellar was being interviewed post game, but I think by
Speaker 1: Charles Barklay, and he was asked, you know, how long
Speaker 1: have you been a season ticket holder? And he rather
Speaker 1: sheepishly but honestly replied, I'm not They just give select
Speaker 1: liberties tickets. They just give us free tickets.
Speaker 2: He said, I don't have them.
Speaker 1: There was a little bit of a backlashing or probably
Speaker 1: I don't know, I haven't checked. At the time. When
Speaker 1: I saw that, I was like, well, at least he's
Speaker 1: being honest. I don't have a problem with it, And
Speaker 1: I mean to be honest this whole conversation. I'm just like,
Speaker 1: all right, I as someone who writes about celebrities and
Speaker 1: their apparent public appearances all the time. Sure, all weigh
Speaker 1: in on this, but I'm not a Knicks fan, I'm
Speaker 1: not a New Yorker, I'm not a basketball fan. So
Speaker 1: whatever happens happens. I'm not offended by any of it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really have like, oh that you know,
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be giving tickets somebody who here's my take,
Speaker 1: And we talked about this before the mics and we're
Speaker 1: flipped on. Excuse me, We've spent the last fifteen years,
Speaker 1: twenty almost twenty years talking about celebrities and how they're
Speaker 1: utilized for publicity and how you know they're brought you know,
Speaker 1: not just for red carpet premieres, but how many times
Speaker 1: have we had a party where they're just selling watches
Speaker 1: or jewelry, right, and they just invite a bunch of
Speaker 1: celebrities every front row at fashion shows, it's the same thing.
Speaker 1: You're just inviting those people, put giving them basically free outfits,
Speaker 1: and sitting them in the front row for the publicity.
Speaker 1: So I cannot in good conscience sit here and say
Speaker 1: wal Taylor Swift doesn't deserve to be there.
Speaker 2: I mean, yes she does.
Speaker 1: She's generating an insane amount of publicity. Of course, so
Speaker 1: was Timothy Shallomy insane amount of publicity. And you know, okay,
Speaker 1: he's he's wearing custom fits from Chrome Hearts or whatever.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: But you and I both know our readers, all no,
Speaker 1: our listeners know this is the game. This is the
Speaker 1: celebrity game. You bring them in for attention, you give
Speaker 1: them gifts and whatever.
Speaker 2: Go ahead. I'm sorry. Now, I do agree that, you know,
Speaker 2: celebrities get everything for free, and obviously tickets too. I
Speaker 2: don't have a problem with that, and I don't have
Speaker 2: a problem with the whole thing. I just understand some
Speaker 2: of the perspective here, because if you were a fan,
Speaker 2: you're focusing on the game and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: the cameras are shifting to something else and they get
Speaker 2: all the attention. And it does if you watch the videos,
Speaker 2: if you watch them front roo.
Speaker 1: Oh, they're performative.
Speaker 2: It does feel very performative.
Speaker 1: A a Risco archetype thing where she ran out onto
Speaker 1: the court last night. Yeah, and you were rolling your
Speaker 1: eyes at it, and I was like, yeah, but she's
Speaker 1: a performer, Like that's that's the way they think.
Speaker 2: That's a little disruptive to me. If you're a fan
Speaker 2: of the game and the players. It feels like the
Speaker 2: attention is not on the players as it should be
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. That's my take.
Speaker 1: It also feels like some of these I'm going to
Speaker 1: say it, they're a little gender like.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: You know, people get annoyed at Timothy, but the real
Speaker 1: reason they're annoyed at Timothy is because his girlfriend is
Speaker 1: sitting next to him, right, And people would not get
Speaker 1: annoyed with Travis Kelcey being there, but his girlfriends.
Speaker 2: They actually got very annoyed with him drinking that beer.
Speaker 1: I don't think they have a problem with him being there,
Speaker 1: that's the thing, right, But anytime Taylor Swift shows up
Speaker 1: anywhere at a sporting event, there's all this discussion about
Speaker 1: whether she deserves to be there and whether she's a
Speaker 1: true fan, And you know what, like football players wives.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, free pass, and she is almost a football
Speaker 1: player's wife at this point. I don't think we need
Speaker 1: to question why she's at that game. I think it's
Speaker 1: sexist as hell, and I think it's just one of
Speaker 1: those anti Taylor things that no, I don't agree with that.
Speaker 1: I just don't. People have no problem with Ben Stellar
Speaker 1: or Spike Lee or Mike Bloomberg or whoever else is
Speaker 1: sitting front row. But when the girls show up as well,
Speaker 1: are they true fans? Are they acting respectfully?
Speaker 2: Right? But you mentioned Spike Lee and Ben Steeler for example,
Speaker 2: They've always been attending shows and that level of attention
Speaker 2: was never placed on them.
Speaker 1: I disagree. I've always seen pictures of what Spike Lee
Speaker 1: was wearing. No, I don't know, I've seen a championship.
Speaker 2: I've seen pictures of them. But the level of attention
Speaker 2: to the front room now, it's and I'm not just
Speaker 2: saying the ladies to tell us wife or whatever. I'm
Speaker 2: just saying in general, it feels like it's a lot
Speaker 2: more at carpety than before. And maybe that's approach mats.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's the way they're going.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, I this doesn't bother me.
Speaker 1: Number one reason is because it is not my sport
Speaker 1: or my hometown. But it's New York. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of celebrities in New York so and they are in
Speaker 1: the championships. Like to say, if the Mets were in
Speaker 1: the World Series, I'm pretty sure we would be I
Speaker 1: know we would be seeing a ton of celebrities in
Speaker 1: the stands.
Speaker 2: But New York also doesn't give a shit about celebrities.
Speaker 2: And then you can tell if you watch them, they don't.
Speaker 2: People around them are okay, I mean they're like, they're
Speaker 2: not even.
Speaker 1: No, of course not.
Speaker 2: It's New York. It's New York. They don't give a shit.
Speaker 1: It's everybody's sitting in those sheets has paid thousands and
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of dollars, so.
Speaker 2: You don't see much much reaction from them. It's it's
Speaker 2: pretty much the whole pr thing on the people attending
Speaker 2: the show, and and you know, things like I don't know,
Speaker 2: I find it a little bit too much the way
Speaker 2: they react in all the running and hugging the players
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. It feels a little too much
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: There, all right, I think we've beaten that one. I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear your thoughts, especially from any New Yorkers
Speaker 1: or any NBA fans or Knicks fans. How do you
Speaker 1: feel about the celebrities showing up in their little outfits.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't see that much different from a
Speaker 1: World Series or even Wimbledon when we cover people in
Speaker 1: their outfits at Wimbledon. So I mean, I take your
Speaker 1: point about performativeness, but I, as I said, they're performers.
Speaker 2: What's next Next we can talk about the uh crazy
Speaker 2: wonderful success of Jix Munson Rupol's drag Race. She's been
Speaker 2: killing it. She you know, we know she did Chicago
Speaker 2: Little Shop of Horrors and Doctor Who. We know all that,
Speaker 2: and she's extremely talented. And now she's doing a play
Speaker 2: I believe right.
Speaker 1: And she's doing a Judy Garland and yeah play. I
Speaker 1: saw a music and I didn't love it. I love her.
Speaker 1: She was singing Strings of my Heart and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's just sort of rushing through it.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I'm gonna agree with you. I don't love it.
Speaker 2: I think she was way more funny on the drag Ratio.
Speaker 2: I think when you when the whole when it's a
Speaker 2: whole show about Judy Garland, I feel like it's a
Speaker 2: little too I don't know, it feels like a little too.
Speaker 2: I don't it's not natural. I mean she plays it
Speaker 2: too much, you know. I mean, like all the characters
Speaker 2: of Judy Garland feels a little feels a little too overplayed.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing when you get into like Judy in
Speaker 1: her Carnegie Hall era, which is essentially what most drag
Speaker 1: queens who do Judy are basically doing Carnegie Hall Judy,
Speaker 1: and Jinks does this, but I think the mistake in
Speaker 1: her Judy impersonation is that she overstates like Judy was
Speaker 1: very funny, very witty, and very sarcastic, like that was
Speaker 1: I mean, And I think that's what Jinks tends to
Speaker 1: play up, that sort of half drunk Judy basically half drunk,
Speaker 1: sort of mouthing off, rolling her eyes at everyone, kind
Speaker 1: of wandering all over the stage. But if you look
Speaker 1: at Judy in the sixties, before it really fell apart
Speaker 1: for her, she was always sharp on stage, even when
Speaker 1: she was visibly drunk, even when she was rambling or
Speaker 1: getting overly emotional or or getting a little too sarcastic.
Speaker 1: When it came time to hit her mark and hit
Speaker 1: her she was extremely professional. It was only at the
Speaker 1: very very end when she couldn't really do those things anymore.
Speaker 2: And Jinks doesn't play her that way.
Speaker 1: She plays a very loosey, goosey Judy and it's funny
Speaker 1: and sometimes she really does sound like her, But I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not hearing the precision because that was something. Thing
Speaker 1: about Judy as a performer is that she was insanely
Speaker 1: precise and technical, almost entire almost all the way up
Speaker 1: until the end. So sometimes I don't mean to turn
Speaker 1: this into a critique.
Speaker 2: No, it's an interesting critique because it does feel like
Speaker 2: someone watched too many videos on YouTube, those.
Speaker 1: Talk show videos when she was like doing the Tonight Show,
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 2: She kind of does the same, which is not very subtle.
Speaker 2: But she's killing it. Everyone is loving it, and she's
Speaker 2: doing great, is extremely town. And now she's going to
Speaker 2: do O Mary. She did it in New York and
Speaker 2: now she's going to do it in England.
Speaker 1: And then the stunt casting for oh Mary is getting
Speaker 1: out of hand, don't.
Speaker 2: You listen when when first when O Mary first first appeared.
Speaker 2: You know, I love the concept. I loved everything about it.
Speaker 2: I thought it was incredible that Colewitz Kolar right, was
Speaker 2: getting all this attention. He works so hard. They they
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, they worked so hard to make that happen.
Speaker 2: So I was very happy with the whole thing. But
Speaker 2: then it became the thing now that everybody wants to
Speaker 2: play the part, and it's just again attention seeking, you.
Speaker 1: Know, it's a Broadway play, I know, but.
Speaker 2: It feels like, oh my god, I don't know. It's
Speaker 2: just like attention on me, me me, me, me me me,
Speaker 2: not the project, not.
Speaker 1: The I heard that Jenks was taking over on the
Speaker 1: West End for Catherine Tate, who has been I didn't
Speaker 1: realize Catherine Tate was playing the character, and I did
Speaker 1: sort of go Okay, I mean I get it, like
Speaker 1: Catherine Tate can play oh Mary as she's written the
Speaker 1: sort of over the top, you know, neurotic Cabaret sing
Speaker 1: or character. But my first thought was, really is she
Speaker 1: doing is she doing that accent?
Speaker 2: Well? Is she doing a British like?
Speaker 1: Which is silly because of course this play is not
Speaker 1: remotely historically accurate. There's no point in complaining any worrying
Speaker 1: about that. But I do take your part. The only
Speaker 1: casting that really made me excited, no, actually was Maya Rudolph. Yes,
Speaker 1: because just as it putting a non binary or male performer,
Speaker 1: because Titus Bridges also played, putting a black woman in
Speaker 1: that in those skirts. Okay, that's going to be funny,
Speaker 1: especially my Rudolf, who is so funny. Betty Gilpin, sure,
Speaker 1: but because she's really talented talented, but I do not
Speaker 1: think she's I don't think she's right for the role.
Speaker 2: Not really.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she did fine in it. She's done, she's
Speaker 1: long done, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, they only do a couple of you know, show
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks. Yeah, yeah, a couple of weeks
Speaker 2: and that's it. Now. Megan tells her she's gonna do it.
Speaker 1: Well to be honest, that if she can learn her
Speaker 1: lines and hit her mark, if she would be perfect.
Speaker 2: If she can remember her lines, yeah, she would.
Speaker 1: Be perfect for it. I mean that's she's essentially a
Speaker 1: female Cola Scola in some ways, yea, without the discipline.
Speaker 2: All right, anyway, but the whole point on on on
Speaker 2: TikTok and everything about Jake Munts, who was said, uh,
Speaker 2: very talented drag Queen's you know on the show, and
Speaker 2: then that we people felt that they should focus more
Speaker 2: on that than have just pretty queens on the show,
Speaker 2: because then you have this incredible talent Race are Oh Mary, No,
Speaker 2: I'm talking about drag Race and Queen's and jig why
Speaker 2: why Jackman's it's out there doing so great and uh
Speaker 2: if you and you made the point that she won twice, right, she.
Speaker 1: Won twice, and I think she's the only one who
Speaker 1: has one toy.
Speaker 2: But for a long time, drag Race kind of made
Speaker 2: fun of people like that, like her her type of drag.
Speaker 1: I mean, well, first off, Rue, she has a a
Speaker 1: bug up ers about the theater queens, and she always
Speaker 1: did Rue and the whole show is based on Rue's
Speaker 1: concept concept of drag, which is based on Ru's own
Speaker 1: career as a drag queen. So Ru did not come
Speaker 1: from this very practiced theatrical cabaret sorts background to drag.
Speaker 1: She came up from the street. She was a club kid.
Speaker 1: She did burlesque, she did you know, she did shows,
Speaker 1: she did lip syncing and that sort of thing. But
Speaker 1: she wasn't a cabaret performer, and she wasn't a theater performer,
Speaker 1: and she had no training. And that's why drag Race
Speaker 1: kind of disdains those overtrained queens and loves those messy
Speaker 1: ass queens who are who make Ru laugh. The show
Speaker 1: was always prioritized messy drag, over disciplined to drag, which
Speaker 1: is a shame. And we when we were writing our
Speaker 1: book Legendary Children, we kept trying to pull in examples
Speaker 1: of disciplined drag performers like you know, Charles Bush, And
Speaker 1: there is a piece on Charles Bush in the book,
Speaker 1: But it was hard to pull those people in and
Speaker 1: talk about them because that's not what's the show prioritizes.
Speaker 1: It prioritizes street drag, messy drag. It pulls from John
Speaker 1: Waters films, and the ballroom. It does not pull from
Speaker 1: cabaret or Broadway or Vogue, which are all major heavy
Speaker 1: inspirations on drag. It's kind of like genres of drag.
Speaker 1: There's fashion drag, there's cabaret drag, there's Broadway drag, there's
Speaker 1: you know, lip syncing drag, there's ballroom drag. And Rue
Speaker 1: has never loved those theater queens. It's too Jinx's credit
Speaker 1: that she was able to secure two wins basically because
Speaker 1: she blew everyone else out of the water. Her talent
Speaker 1: level was so high it was hard you could not
Speaker 1: deny it. And also she is something of a messy
Speaker 1: queen when she wants to be. And I think that
Speaker 1: did appeal to rule.
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree, but yeah, but there are yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, Ben Delacram is another one who's extremely talented.
Speaker 1: Jnjerminch is extremely talented.
Speaker 2: Exactly so queens. So people were talking about that, the
Speaker 2: fact that you know, maybe we should embrace these queens
Speaker 2: a little more.
Speaker 1: Because they said of the Instagram queens.
Speaker 2: And queens were the design of clothes, you know. But
Speaker 2: I guess, I guess there should be room for all
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My take.
Speaker 1: The bottom line is that Drag Race is not gonna
Speaker 1: I mean, it never has. We're heading into almost its
Speaker 1: third decade at this point, and I don't think there's
Speaker 1: no change coming unless roofsteps but down. There's no change coming.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you watch the episode without the sound,
Speaker 2: it's the same show every single.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we're committed to doing I don't hate
Speaker 1: the show. I still love to watch Drag Queens. Yes,
Speaker 1: I still every season, even of all Stars, I still
Speaker 1: am like, all right, new crop, fresh crop, let's see
Speaker 1: where it goes. It's just that the show is very stale,
Speaker 1: and it's very hard to write about without sounding bitter
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: Right. I feel the judges are basically the same every time,
Speaker 2: you know, like the whole thing with the last the
Speaker 2: latest episode with the sisters and Michelle going on and
Speaker 2: on about that, Oh they don't look the same. I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, that.
Speaker 1: We there again?
Speaker 2: Are we there again? Anyway? It feels like anyway it
Speaker 2: needs to be uh freshened up a little bit, I guess.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I agree with that. Why don't we take a
Speaker 1: short break and we'll be right back. We're back, and
Speaker 1: I'm just going to toss to Lorenzo who has this
Speaker 1: latest celebrity brew haha on TikTok So.
Speaker 2: Anyway, uh, heated rivalry again, another story. They seem to
Speaker 2: be going after everybody.
Speaker 1: They are going to let themselves become the worst fandom
Speaker 1: and all of fandom. The reputation has plummeted.
Speaker 2: I knew this was coming. Someone has to take over. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I knew this was going to happen. Fame came too
Speaker 2: quickly for these guys. Unfortunately.
Speaker 1: It's why I tapped out as soon as I was like,
Speaker 1: I can tell what this is.
Speaker 2: And I see I could see the whole machinery in action, uh,
Speaker 2: in terms of pr in terms of fame for these guys,
Speaker 2: everything the fans reacting. So the bottom line is that
Speaker 2: they have no problem with the kind of story, but
Speaker 2: with everybody else.
Speaker 1: This is what I said to you before we flipped
Speaker 1: on the mics. That's my thing. So okay, right now,
Speaker 1: the fan them is going after Hudson Williams, and Will
Speaker 1: and Lorenzo will explain why. But they've actually been going
Speaker 1: after him for a while, partially because he has a girlfriend,
Speaker 1: and that is killed the fantasy. It killed the fantasy,
Speaker 1: and so the fandom was going after him for like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, queer baiting or something whatever. I guess
Speaker 1: straight actors can't play gay now. And then they also
Speaker 1: went after Francois Arnau because they thought he was like
Speaker 1: grooming connor story or so I was too to date, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because there was some indication that they were having some
Speaker 1: sort of fling and there was an age gap, although
Speaker 1: it wasn't really anything scandalous. And bottom line is he's
Speaker 1: their special curly haired boy that they all love, their
Speaker 1: special little queer boyfriend, and they are attacking anybody else
Speaker 1: who threatens poor little cherubic Connor's story. And again I
Speaker 1: saw and you know it's not for nothing. Hudson Williams
Speaker 1: is not.
Speaker 2: He's by right.
Speaker 1: So it's the little blonde, blue eyed, curly haired cherub
Speaker 1: that they're all trying to protect from these evil evil
Speaker 1: Asian men and queer men like older guys. Undertones of
Speaker 1: this gross. Having said all that, first of all, we
Speaker 1: don't even know if the pictures are real. But describe,
Speaker 1: I think the pictures are really okay, Describe what picture the.
Speaker 2: Latest bomb is that they found, because they will find
Speaker 2: and that's the problem. Now. They found pictures of Hudson
Speaker 2: Williams with the swastka drawn on his forehead. Now their
Speaker 2: old pictures when he was very young with friends playing.
Speaker 1: They had magic marker, like all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2: Right. The story, apparently, allegedly is that people were drawing
Speaker 2: things on somebody else's forehead.
Speaker 1: They wasn't they were asleep or something.
Speaker 2: I don't know that, I don't know, but they were
Speaker 2: just playing. I guess, I guess. You know, you you
Speaker 2: couldn't see what they were drawing. Uh, and then they
Speaker 2: were done drawing. But you know, at some when you're
Speaker 2: going to look and see what they drew. But anyway,
Speaker 2: that's that's that's my take. Anyway. So these pictures, you know,
Speaker 2: resurfaced because he always do, and they were all, you know,
Speaker 2: huge backlash and criticizing him for those pictures and stuff.
Speaker 2: He has never as far as I know, addressed the
Speaker 2: whole issue, hasn't mentioned it, talked about.
Speaker 1: He's smart, he would just talk about it.
Speaker 2: Apparently he wasn't unaware of what has been had been
Speaker 2: drawn on his forehead. That's the story.
Speaker 1: What is the origin of these pictures? Where were they
Speaker 1: found on his social media or.
Speaker 2: No, it's not very clear where they were found.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but questions.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I think if they were faked, he would
Speaker 2: have come out and said these pictures are.
Speaker 1: Not even I'm not necessarily suggesting that they're fake, I'm
Speaker 1: just what was who who had these pictures?
Speaker 2: Where were they? One of the friends, friends of the friends, Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: one of the friends of the friends of the friends.
Speaker 1: I'm sure fine, Uh yeah, Shade.
Speaker 2: I can only say one thing. I'm very very thankful
Speaker 2: that social media did not exist when I was a kid. Well,
Speaker 2: I do not that I did any of that. Have
Speaker 2: swastikas on your I never know any of that. Let
Speaker 2: me be clear, he had, but I'm sure it would
Speaker 2: have me doing something stupid that I'd be ashamed of.
Speaker 1: Having said that. I do think when you are how
Speaker 1: old is Hudson Williams his twenties, he's twenty five or
Speaker 1: twenty six that young. Uh yeah, you really can't claim
Speaker 1: that you didn't know the swastikas were bad in twenty
Speaker 1: fifteen or whatever, like you know it was bad back then. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's twenty five, so the new pictures are only about
Speaker 1: ten years old. And I mean, listen, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: We do dumb stuff when we're and I don't think
Speaker 1: anything needs to happen. I don't think he needs to
Speaker 1: give a statement. I don't think he certainly shouldn't lose
Speaker 1: his job or anything.
Speaker 2: Right, several times I have stopped and thought about my
Speaker 2: pets and I was like, did I do it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Never done anything like.
Speaker 1: No, I never know. There are no swastikas. There's no
Speaker 1: blackface in that past. I mean, I know that part
Speaker 1: of me is pristine.
Speaker 2: No. I wasn't that kind of guy.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure I said some stupid ass things that
Speaker 1: I would fringe at now.
Speaker 2: Yes, So apparently I think got so bad that they
Speaker 2: somewhere somehow. Simoul Liu, the actor, was interviewed and defended
Speaker 2: him up. Yeah, yeah, he defended him. Said, you know,
Speaker 2: massive hate campaigns against actors of color has been happening.
Speaker 2: Happened to me and he's happened to this guy now,
Speaker 2: meaning Hudson Williams, and you know, that's just horrible.
Speaker 1: And he's not the best spokesperson for this because seemingly
Speaker 1: has been problematic in his own ways over there years.
Speaker 1: He's made comments. Yeah, there's been some problematic stuff in
Speaker 1: his own social media in fact, but he's not wrong
Speaker 1: about this. He's not wrong about this. Like why, I mean,
Speaker 1: what do his fans? What do you care that he
Speaker 1: did something stupid when he was sixteen? The only reason
Speaker 1: you're making an issue of this is because you want
Speaker 1: to somehow hurt him. And the other reason you want
Speaker 1: to hurt him is because you're precious little curly boy
Speaker 1: is being threatened by the poor biracial Asian Nazi that
Speaker 1: you've made up in your head. I think fandoms are silly, silly,
Speaker 1: silly thing.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think these things are going to happen more
Speaker 2: and more with social media, you know, because people do shit.
Speaker 1: Like that, They're going to I do think it's worth
Speaker 1: questioning whether this is a real picture. That's my point,
Speaker 1: because we're we are getting to a point where you
Speaker 1: are not going to be able to tell easily and
Speaker 1: they can put any kind of picture out there. So
Speaker 1: it's worth questioning when these things come up, and it's
Speaker 1: worth noting the implications of constantly attacking this one actor's
Speaker 1: co stars because you have a crush on that actor.
Speaker 1: And we aren't talking about twelve year olds here, we
Speaker 1: are talking about adults.
Speaker 2: I do feel the book people in general are different
Speaker 2: breath when it comes to TV shows and movies.
Speaker 1: There are you romance books. That's what you're saying. I
Speaker 1: will fill in the blank there. You don't have the
Speaker 1: guts to say it now.
Speaker 2: I will say every time a book gets turned into
Speaker 2: a movie or a TV show or there's always this conversation,
Speaker 2: this craziness showing out somehow.
Speaker 1: That's why I don't like to review shows that are
Speaker 1: based on books. I don't even like to review movies
Speaker 1: that are based on books because people just don't understand.
Speaker 1: We're not here to talk about the book, right, We're
Speaker 1: here to talk about the adaptation.
Speaker 2: I think it's fine to make comparisons, but when you
Speaker 2: fight for those changes or differences, you know, between the
Speaker 2: book and the project, I think it's a little crazy.
Speaker 2: And Yet when you go after people, go after the
Speaker 2: actors and things like that, that's why I don't. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't touch the show anymore. And there's a new
Speaker 2: season coming and I'm like, oh no, I don't.
Speaker 1: Want to be And I'm happy for the actors. I'm
Speaker 1: literally I am actually happy for the fans. It's a
Speaker 1: good show and everyone is happy with the show. But
Speaker 1: this is what happens with the sort of rabid fandoms,
Speaker 1: is that they suck all of the joy out of it.
Speaker 1: Just as as an aside, Back in the day, long
Speaker 1: before I was a blogger, I used to hang out
Speaker 1: on nerd forums, on comic book forums, and for ten
Speaker 1: years I was a moderator at CBR CBR dot com,
Speaker 1: which is a shit site now. But and this is
Speaker 1: in the nineties and the odds, and every once in
Speaker 1: a while I'll go back to those forums because I
Speaker 1: still read comics. I still love comics, and I want
Speaker 1: to have someplace to talk about them. And I'll go
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh god, the worst, the worst thing
Speaker 1: you can do to talk about the stuff you love
Speaker 1: is to find a fandom, yes, because all they will
Speaker 1: do is complain. And yeah, I will go to CBR
Speaker 1: or some or I'll look at stuff on Reddit or
Speaker 1: on social media conversations about the books that I'm reading,
Speaker 1: and it's so sour, it's so entitled, because you have
Speaker 1: devoted all of your online persona to talking about this
Speaker 1: one thing, right, so the you can't praise it all
Speaker 1: the time, so you have to turn to nitpicky complaints.
Speaker 1: And the complaints get more and more bizarre over time
Speaker 1: because they're fed by a social media crowd and you're
Speaker 1: all in this little bubble, and your anger is getting
Speaker 1: more and more intense over stupid shit, like why.
Speaker 2: There's a tail place where you can have a decent
Speaker 2: conversation about anything anymore online because all you have to do,
Speaker 2: as a crazy fan is to search that person's name
Speaker 2: and then you go there you'll find I mean, I
Speaker 2: see that happening all the time. Sometimes I'm like on
Speaker 2: Instagram or whatever, the conversation is fine, and all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, all these people just showed up and then
Speaker 2: ruin it for everybody else because they do a search
Speaker 2: and then find that that specific post or whatever and
Speaker 2: they destroy it.
Speaker 1: It's true, but that's all I have to say about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I don't know. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think it's awkward. I'm not gonna, you know, pretend that
Speaker 2: this is not something that should be criticized. Now. It's awkward,
Speaker 2: and you know you shouldn't be doing shit like that.
Speaker 1: But I also don't think he owes anyone an explanation.
Speaker 1: I mean, really, if he was I don't know, Adam
Speaker 1: January sixth or something like that, But fooling around with
Speaker 1: teenagers ten years ago, long before you were famous, someone
Speaker 1: found the picture of you, and well, there's something objectionable
Speaker 1: in the picture.
Speaker 2: I don't know. If I had swatsk on my forehead,
Speaker 2: I'd apologize for it, That's all I'm saying. But that's
Speaker 2: just I.
Speaker 1: Get I mean, I get it. We are in a
Speaker 1: very politicized time. We are in a time of rising
Speaker 1: anti semitism, so and I get that people's antennas are up.
Speaker 1: But I also think expecting stars to apologize for teenage
Speaker 1: shit that happened long before they were stars, I think
Speaker 1: you just personally, I think he should ignore it. I
Speaker 1: really do. But again, we'd love to hear from all
Speaker 1: y'all on the.
Speaker 2: Should he apologize or ignore it?
Speaker 1: Yes? All right, we'll take a short break and we're
Speaker 1: gonna spoil the latest episode of Widows Bay. So if
Speaker 1: you don't want to be spoiled on the latest episode
Speaker 1: of Widows Bay, love you mean it.
Speaker 2: Bye Bye.
Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow with a Bitter Kitten movie club
Speaker 1: on Lorenzo's favorite film of all time Better Babette's Feast.
Speaker 1: But we are coming back in a minute to talk
Speaker 1: about Widows Bay. We're back, and we're just gonna wrap
Speaker 1: this up by talking about the most recent Widow's Bay.
Speaker 1: I wasn't I wasn't actually planning on talking about it,
Speaker 1: but pardon me, tab is walking all over the place.
Speaker 1: I had a theory last week about the show, and
Speaker 1: the theory sort of was answered in this week's episode,
Speaker 1: but there was a bit of a twist to it,
Speaker 1: so I did want to get into that. But first
Speaker 1: I will say I love every episode of Widows Bay
Speaker 1: and the scene with Dale Dickey actually made this episode,
Speaker 1: but this was probably my least favorite episode of the show,
Speaker 1: just because there wasn't it felt like a bridge between
Speaker 1: everything that had happened and whatever they're planning for the finale,
Speaker 1: So it was just more you know, it was still
Speaker 1: a lot of it felt liminal. It felt like an
Speaker 1: interim episode, right.
Speaker 2: Not not a lot happened, But whatever happened was excuse me,
Speaker 2: freaking hilarious. I only think the Dale Dickie scene will
Speaker 2: now I think the whole thing was funny. First of all,
Speaker 2: I was thrilled to see Betty Gilpin Beck briefly, Yes, briefly,
Speaker 2: but Beck, Oh you're back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they should bring her back in season two
Speaker 1: as a descendant.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, They're
Speaker 2: not going to do it. I just find the show
Speaker 2: so witty, so clever, so amazing. Yeah, lines are just
Speaker 2: freaking intelligent and hilarious. I mean, I just love the show,
Speaker 2: love the show. Was not expecting to love the show
Speaker 2: this much. But I think it has a lot to
Speaker 2: do with the writing, obviously, but also the performance. They're
Speaker 2: all amazing.
Speaker 1: Matthew Rees, Katia Flann, and Steven Root are just the
Speaker 1: MVPs of this show. But then you have people like
Speaker 1: Dale Dickie, who I'm so glad they gave her that scene,
Speaker 1: and I I really wish they would give Jeff Hiller
Speaker 1: a scene. That guy won an Emmy last year for
Speaker 1: Somebody somewhere and he's in the background and he's funny.
Speaker 1: But they really I want them to give him they started.
Speaker 1: That's the other thing is that the island, the show
Speaker 1: is populated with all these other people, and you're starting
Speaker 1: to get the sense, all right, well let's see some
Speaker 1: of these other people. Like they're starting to pay more
Speaker 1: attention to the sheriff and his wife who are facing
Speaker 1: a real dilemma because she's about to give birth.
Speaker 2: Well, it's gonna happen. I mean, yeah, I think that's
Speaker 2: gonna happen.
Speaker 1: So here's my take. I said last week that I
Speaker 1: I pointed out the painting in the inn that showed
Speaker 1: the child swimming away in the water from the you know,
Speaker 1: the in the storm or whatever, and that this implied
Speaker 1: that one of the founder's children had survived, and if
Speaker 1: that's the case, then his bloodline is probably still going on.
Speaker 1: Why else would you show that unless that's the point.
Speaker 1: And I was correct on that, which I'm not patting
Speaker 1: myself on the back. It was very, very obvious that
Speaker 1: that's where the show was leading, and everyone was talking
Speaker 1: about him online and on Reddit. So I'm not taking
Speaker 1: credit for it, but I really thought it was going
Speaker 1: to be a son like dramatically speaking, that makes the
Speaker 1: most sense. He's so conflicted that this is even real.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, for sixteen years, he's been
Speaker 1: keeping his son under wraps, and.
Speaker 2: When they made him sit down and pay attention to
Speaker 2: the whole presentation, I was like, it's gonna be him.
Speaker 2: It's going to be a son, and I I have to.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like in Severance when they in the
Speaker 1: first episode of sevens when they took a long time
Speaker 1: revealing who Mark's dead wife was, and you really really
Speaker 1: thought it was his coworker, britt Lower. You really thought
Speaker 1: that was going to be the reveal, and it turned
Speaker 1: out to be his other co worker. And when I
Speaker 1: remember when that scene happened, because you were everything was
Speaker 1: indicating that you know, the person you think it is
Speaker 1: is this person, and at the very last second they
Speaker 1: show somebody else. And I remember at the time saying,
Speaker 1: my brain shut off. I did not expect that, and
Speaker 1: I felt like the writers were deliberately like inside my head,
Speaker 1: fucking with me. And I think this is kind of
Speaker 1: a I think the writing is smart enough to know
Speaker 1: that at this point the viewership will be making connections
Speaker 1: and assuming it's the sun right, and it turns out
Speaker 1: she gets to this long diatribe where she points out
Speaker 1: every dead baby, every lesbian, and every developmentally disabled child
Speaker 1: that was born in the last four hundred years. She
Speaker 1: didn't say developmentally.
Speaker 2: Now the overhead projector.
Speaker 1: And she's smoking. But when she gets to the and
Speaker 1: the reveal is Ruth, the elderly secretary played by Kay Callen,
Speaker 1: and then it turns into this whole discussion of do
Speaker 1: we kill her or whatever.
Speaker 2: The whole conversation was hysterical.
Speaker 1: I suspect Ruth is not going to survive the storm anyway.
Speaker 1: She's ninety years old, and they said she was still
Speaker 1: in her house. But I just did, Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: want to say that I don't think she's the end
Speaker 1: of the line. They made a point of showing a
Speaker 1: young Ruth in the nineteen fifties who won I think
Speaker 1: the Miss Widow's Bay, Beauty Pasant or whatever. And I
Speaker 1: said to Lorenzo, I was like, she got a secret baby.
Speaker 1: I mean, why would they show her young and beautiful?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And I don't believe that was a picture of Kay Callan.
Speaker 1: I think that was some actress that's going to appear
Speaker 1: in a flashback at so I.
Speaker 2: Think that's what's going to happen. She's going to be
Speaker 2: dead with the storm because of the storm.
Speaker 1: And she'll be his secret grandmother was going to think
Speaker 1: it's over over and something happens.
Speaker 2: There's a baby. There was a baby somewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But that's my take.
Speaker 2: I agree. No, I think that's that's I don't.
Speaker 1: Think this show necessarily needs to be unpacked like a
Speaker 1: puzzle box. I mean, I know there are clues. I've
Speaker 1: actually started rewatching it and there are oh okay, I
Speaker 1: mean there are things that are foreshadowed a lot throughout it,
Speaker 1: like the painting, like the think out the baby, you know,
Speaker 1: a kid in the water and everything. This was all
Speaker 1: rather meticulously plotted out. But I I think it's more
Speaker 1: about the performances and the humor of it. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's fun to unpack where the show is going, but
Speaker 1: it's we're not talking lost here, you.
Speaker 2: Know, right. What I love about the shoe, it's something
Speaker 2: very simple that not a lot of shows do, is
Speaker 2: to make things look real. When he's removing the put
Speaker 2: off the wall, I mean, I forgot about that was
Speaker 2: a really funny scene. Yes, what would happen if you're
Speaker 2: trying to if you're angry and you're trying to remove
Speaker 2: a very heavy frame off the wall. Just hilarious when
Speaker 2: she's smoking and she turns a fan on and it's
Speaker 2: just like I can't hear anything, we can't hear and
Speaker 2: then she just and you know, dead baby, dead baby lesbian?
Speaker 2: Do you really have to say it like that? What?
Speaker 2: I can't say that anymore.
Speaker 1: It's just a it's a really funny.
Speaker 2: Show, funariot.
Speaker 1: You know why I don't think this one rates all
Speaker 1: that high for me is because there was nothing scary
Speaker 1: in it. Oh okay, there were no scares. It was
Speaker 1: just that's what I mean about it being kind of liminal.
Speaker 2: Like well, the guy, you know, the guy who got
Speaker 2: sucked up by the wasn't scary. Funny, but it's funny,
Speaker 2: but it's also like horrifying, I know, the whole sky,
Speaker 2: you know. And yeah, they do that. They do a
Speaker 2: good job. I think that. I mean, I'm loving the show.
Speaker 2: I'm having the show.
Speaker 1: But I want them to bring Betty Gilpin back as
Speaker 1: a descendant.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's actually Sarah Westcott.
Speaker 1: I think her name is.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine if that would be really fun? Anyway,
Speaker 2: keep watching if you're watching it, I you know, it's.
Speaker 1: Fun canally next week.
Speaker 2: If I haven't watched it yet, give it a shot.
Speaker 2: It's a fantastic show.
Speaker 1: It is, and I believe that is it for us
Speaker 1: this week. We will be back next week withever with
Speaker 1: whatever crosses ours across as our desks, and we will
Speaker 1: be back tomorrow. Yes for the Bitter Kit and move
Speaker 1: the cleb, and we will have much to say about
Speaker 1: Babat's face. Until then, take care of yourselves of you
Speaker 1: mean it, but bye,