Speaker 1: We're Tarma Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. Hello,
Kitten's welcome back to another edition of the PSO. I
am the Tea and your tea low Tom Fitzgeryld and
I'm here with the loan and your tea. Let Lorenz
and my cousin, I love the husband.
Speaker 2: And we're here. We're tab Hunter on the table, on
the table. It's always here. It's so cute. We set
up the equipment, we sit down, and then he jumps
on the tabe immediately.
Speaker 1: Tab Hunter is our twenty two pound ginger boy cat.
Speaker 2: He is the sweetest boy.
Speaker 1: He loves us. I have to apologize. The air conditioning
has kicked in big time this week, and I have
air conditioning voice, which I get every summer in the beginning.
Speaker 2: Right now, I can't stand it.
Speaker 1: I apologize for my rast people, but I sound a
little bit like Dale Dickey on Widow's Bay So lesbian.
We'll get into that. In fact, let's map out this podcast.
We're gonna do a little bit of TV talking. Well,
I'm gonna do a little bit of TV talk because
there's Doctor Who News and I have opinions on it.
Lorenzo has no opinion.
Speaker 2: On it, have no clue what so he will get.
Speaker 1: To sip his tea while I speak. Then we're going
to jump in on some celebrity stuff, some of which
is TikTok fueled, some of which is just in the air.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the celebrities who are courtside
of the next games. We're going to talk about the
latest hated rivalry, freaking fan controversy, stupid shit, and what
else are we talking about? Drag Race Yes, Jenks monsoon
she's gonna be on the West End. Well, she is
on the West End, and just sort of the question
of whether or not drag Race is actually are good
at sussing out talented queens. And we'll end the podcast
with a little discussion on the latest episode of Widows Bay,
which we weren't planning on talking about, but there are
I need to unpack a theory, So in order to
do that, we'll do that at the end of the
episode because it'll be all spoiler of the latest episode.
My favorite uh yeah, absolutely my favorite show on my
show on right now that I'm like, oh my god,
there's a new episode today, and I just know.
Speaker 2: That never happened.
Speaker 1: Well, it does, but like with Widows Bay, I I
actually didn't wasn't a late adopter of Widow's Bay. I
think like the second week maybe I had heard about
it and I started watching it. But you know, these
these seasons are relatively long, and the show just when
you fall in love with the show, it's over.
Speaker 2: I know. But anyway, we'll talk more about it.
Speaker 1: But whatever, they are clearly setting up a season two,
so oh.
Speaker 2: My god, they better and we are.
Speaker 1: Happy planning our trip to Ireland.
Speaker 2: In Scotland and Scotland we've been on.
Speaker 1: A Belfast place.
Speaker 2: Oh God, forgot to talk to you about that. But anyway,
I'm glad I'm not going there.
Speaker 1: We have friends in North yeah though.
Speaker 2: Anyway, it's we've been to Ireland before, it's our first
time in Scotland. I'm very excited about it, and I
want to thank every one of you who emailed me.
Us uh would suggest so.
Speaker 1: You emailed him please. I barely looked at them.
Speaker 2: I know they were like, this is a long random
it's so cute. Anyway, so thank you so much for
the emails and suggestions. I really appreciate it because you
guys live there you know it's it's it's better to
get suggested from local. You know, they know they know
the places. Anyway, Thank you so much. I can't wait
to go. It looks like paradise. It looks such like
such a beautiful place.
Speaker 1: I know, I can't wait to go to. I'm getting
very excited. But we are flying out on July fourth,
which is saying of us, But I need to reiterate
that we live three blocks from the Liberty Bill and
Independence Hall and it's all ready.
Speaker 2: To getting crazy.
Speaker 1: I know it's not. I mean, Phillies July fourth celebrations
are always great, but they they they're never as big
as New York's and Washington d C's, which is kind
of unfair because we're the whole point. But what Ebbs.
But this year, this year, I can tell. I mean,
the crowds are already coming, and I just want to
be out of here. I do not want to be
in the neighborhood when all this sure.
Speaker 2: Cleaning up everything, of fixing stuff, everything's new flowers and pots.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're trying to spruce it up. Could be wrong.
I love now my neighborhood.
Speaker 2: I love my neighborhood, yes, but.
Speaker 1: Just as an aside. The shots of that fighting cage
on the White House lawn. It is actually breaking my
brain every time I look at it them I'm like that,
what that does not compute?
Speaker 2: No, it's it's it's disgraceful. It's sad. That's the word
I'm going to use right now, it's said.
Speaker 1: And I I really don't believe that the people who
support this thing actually support it. I don't think they
look at that and go, yeah, that's what America is
all about, that's what the White House should be. They
just want to piss off people like us. They want
to piss off.
Speaker 2: Well, at this point, I don't give a ship what
they think anymore. It's great.
Speaker 1: Did you see what the ringside? The ringside? Betsy Ross,
I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm done trying to decipher these motherfuckers. So I'm done.
I'm done. I just don't want.
Speaker 1: Don't say that.
Speaker 2: I just want to fight them, that's all. I don't
care how they feel or think anymore, because it doesn't change,
doesn't matter anyway anyway.
Speaker 1: All right, moving on to uh less contentious topics. I
did want to talk briefly about Doctor Who, which you
know I'm a fan of I have written extensively about
over the years. I have a lot of opinions on
it and this development. Russell T. Davies, who has been
the showrunner for the last couple of years, and who
returned to the show several years back after he relaunched
it in two thousand and five and made it an
international hit, brought success to the franchise that it had
never really had before, and re energized it for the
twenty first century. He brought it back after something like
a sixteen year hiatus or was it that long, Yeah,
it was sixteen years, nineteen eighty nine. So I think,
on one hand, Russell T. Davies deserves a lot of
consideration from the fandom of Doctor Who, like he has
really he brought that character, put him back on the
you know, set him on a road towards a level
of popularity that he had never had before. And then
he came back and then he he made a lot
of creative decisions that I simply I was like, what
are we doing here? Most of which is unpacked. I
did review most of the of his work the two seasons.
I didn't do every episode because it got really repetitive
and as I said near the end of the I
think in the last recap we did, I said, we
didn't do every episode because we just didn't want to
complain all the time. It would have been nothing but complaints.
Speaker 2: So he.
Speaker 1: I want to commend him for bringing Judy got One
in as the lead character. He was the he brought
him in, and he was the first black man to
play the character. He was the first gay man to
play the character. And these were good and necessary things
to push the franchise forward. And Judy was wonderful in
the role. Honestly, he was so, so, so good in
the role. As much as I love Jody Whittaker, who
came in before him, and I really did she struggled
in that role. And part of the reason she struggled
in it, I think was because a she was a
woman playing character exclusively played by men, and I don't
think the writing ever gave her a way in on that.
They tended to wave it away, and they really should
have explored, Okay, your gender has changed, shouldn't you have
some thoughts about it? And they just kind of waved
all that away as if it didn't matter. And I
think that doesn't give an actor something to work with.
Right with Chudy, they actually did address the fact that
he was gay for the first time, or that we
knew of the character and black for the first time
that we knew of and that we had so we
had him dealing with, you know, racism in a way
that the character had never dealt with it before or
rarely dealt with it before. And I had mixed feelings
about giving the character a sexual attraction, which they did
in Jonathan Coffin. People loved that episode, but I kept saying, well,
you know, there's like sixty years of material saying that
this character doesn't fall in love that much, doesn't have
an attraction to human beings. So when you make him gay,
suddenly he can't control himself. There's something a little off
of it.
Speaker 2: I have a question for you. I don't watch the show.
I don't know much about it, but I read a
lot of stuff about it, some of the backlash, of course,
And my point is, do you think it was too
much black and gay and too much gayness going on?
Speaker 1: I don't think there's such a thing as I know
that I agree, but I do think Russell, who is
a gay man himself, I think he made a point
of tweaking the nose of the haters. He talked about
it all the time. He talked about deliberately trying to
piss them off. Remember, and uh, you know, I don't
think that's the issue here. He did introduce concepts and
character types. He introduced a trans character into the you
know storyline, But I don't think that's the issue. First off,
Doctor Who, much like the closest analog to it in
America is probably Star Trek because it's a long running
science fiction program, which much like Star Trek, Doctor Who
has especially modern Who has always had a progressive bent
right from the beginning.
Speaker 2: It was gay.
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't so much in the twentieth century,
but in this century, yes it was pro gay.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It did a lot of color blind casting, it. It
pushed the envelope a lot in the last twenty years
on what kind of characters can I mean, it was
a big deal the first time he got a black companion.
That seems silly now, but it was a big deal anyway.
So creatively, I think the problem with Russell T. Davies
coming back into the fold is that he is an
old school, old, old old timey fan, and when he
brought the show back in two thousand and five after
sixteen years away, he was updating all of these old
concepts like the Daleks and all this, you know, the
Sea Devils, whatever, and it was fun and exciting to
see these things. But now we are twenty years into
this reboot and he came back and start doing the same.
The last thing Doctor Who needed in the twenty twenties
was more looking backwards, was more, Oh, we're bringing the
c Devils back, We're bringing Sue Tech back, We're you
know whatever. The one thing Doctor Who needs more than
anything else going forward, if it does go forward, is
a complete overhaul, the same to the same extent that
was done in two thousand and five. So I haven't
even gotten to the announcement. Davies and the BBC were
teasing some Doctor Who announcement all week long. The last
time we had heard anything about Doctor Who. It was
not going to continue on Disney Plus in the United States,
but there was going to be a Christmas special and
then they were going to figure it out going forward.
So the announcement comes out this week. Surprise, there's no
Christmas special. It was never scripted. Russell T. Davies came
right out and said, I lied, we didn't have anything.
We were trying to draw up the interest and he's off.
He's they're not continuing with his production company. They are
sending the franchise to tender, which is in the basically
means they're looking at offers at any other production company
who wants to come in and overhauld the character. Bottom
line is we're not going to see new Who for
probably five years.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, I mean it'll be that long.
They have to, and.
Speaker 1: I just think it would be a huge mistake to
bring somebody in and well, well, let's do a story
about the Dolleks, let's do a story about the cyberment. No,
how about you do with you just wipe the slate clean.
I mean the one that one of the great things
about the two thousand and five reboot was that they
they didn't fuss with anything. They didn't even explain who
they There was a regeneration, but we never really saw it.
They just brought in a new guy and said this
is the new guy, and they just kind of glossed
over the less whatever had happened in the previous several
years and I honestly think that's what they need to
do with this is let let this go fallow for
a few years and then bring do some exciting casting announcement.
And if they really wanted to revitalize this franchise, they
should probably go against the grain and cast an actual star,
do a stunt casting.
Speaker 2: Do you know?
Speaker 1: I don't care fucking till this Swinton, I don't care.
Speaker 2: Put somebody out.
Speaker 1: People have talked about her, Oh, she would never do it,
but Billy, why not? I don't think she does TV
or I mean, I don't think she does TV at all.
Speaker 2: Do the stars anyway, but something like that, Do some
stunt casting for a season, bring somebody in to really
lend it some star power, redesign the tartists don't do.
Speaker 1: Don't explain any of it, just go full bore straight
into the adventures. I don't care about the timeless child stuff,
don't I really don't care about whoever Judy gotwer regenerated
into at the end of that last episode. I know
it's Billy Piper, but please can we forget that that
ever happened? It was a terrible, terrible idea. So that's
my thing on Doctor Who Is I did not greet
this announcement with despair. I was like, no, this is
actually what needs to happen, and I hope if they do,
when and if they do come back, I hope it's
it's a clean I this is sacrilege, but get rid
of the police box. I'm not joking. Get rid of
the police box.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: They don't even have them in Great Britain anymore. And
for the last ten years of the show, the joke
was always characters in Britain were like, what is that
blue box? Because they don't have them anymore, you have
an opportunity there. That ship can look like anything, anything
at all. Imagine what you could do if you weren't
locked into this sixty year old continuity. The other thing
I want to suggest is I really think the show
should get away from the big cosmic space stuff and
get back to being a time travel show based in England.
That to me was always when it was its most entertaining.
They're kind of the easiest ones to shoot because you
don't have to do these massive specially. You can just
find some castle somewhere and shoot it there.
Speaker 2: That would be I would watch that.
Speaker 1: It used to be that that used to be the show.
It was about this this goofy alien who time traveled
all around England. And I really think it needs to
get back to that. You need to put a star
in there. You need to get rid of the tartis
or the blue box, and you need to here's the thing.
And again, people are gonna get mad at me, old
school hoofans are gonna get mad at me. But when
you look at something like Star Wars or Star Trek,
the ships, the ships become iconic, they become toys, they
become things that you want to be in. And he
flies around in a blue box and I get it.
It's cute, it's charming, it's twee tradition, but it's it's
been sixty plus years. Like, maybe give him a cool ship,
or maybe just give him something that goofully changes every
week into something else. You have that it's written in.
He has that perception filter thing. Anyway, I'm rambling in
a very nerdy way. But my take is, as much
as I appreciate Russell T. Davies as a gay creator
and as the guy who brought and he did, he
gave us queer as folk the original version, I like
the guy. But he never should have come back to
to uh doctor. I mean the first thing he did
was bring back to David Tennant and it was a
fun thing, but it was kind of a fan thing
to do. Yeah, it was a precursor to it. Just
sort of in retrospect, it indicated that he really didn't
have new ideas, and the new ideas that he did have,
like talking babies in space, were just all right. So
we're going to take a short break, and when we
get back, Lorenzo has much in the way of celebrity
stuff to talk about. We'll be right back. We're back,
and now we're going to talk about the Knicks, even
though we are not sports fans, not basketball fans, and
not Knicks fans, but that has never stopped us from
having an opinion. Actually, obviously we're not going to have
an opinion on the actual games themselves. Except listen, I'm
happy for New Yorkers. They are that city is thrilled
in a and they deserve it. They you know, I'm
just happy for them. It's great when a city has
got that kind of fever going. And you know, New
York has waited a long time for an NBA championship
to come their way again.
Speaker 2: It almost didn't happen, you know. Yeah, and just see
so the you know.
Speaker 1: The the block party, viewing parties, people putting their TVs
out in the street and everything. I just love that
it is so quintessentially New York. Also quintessentially New York
is the heavy, heavy, heavy celebrity presence at the Games,
and that is what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 2: I just I just thought it was interesting because I've
always seen them, you know, attending games front row. You know,
that's nothing new, But I don't remember that much attention
twidst them like there is now.
Speaker 1: That's because they're a champion.
Speaker 2: I mean the feel I feel there's a lot more
now attention to them, and I think it has to
do with maybe Tim all May and.
Speaker 1: Of course you do and tell her swift right, they're
the reason.
Speaker 2: No, they're not the reasons, but they're they're big names.
I mean wherever she goes, you know, and and him
and and Kyla Kylie Jenner. You know, I feel like
because they're young and they're very popular because usually we're
people I don't know, famous stars, but not I don't know,
not on this same level. That's how I feel. But
my so, I noticed a lot more attention, a lot
more videos, a lot more pictures. It's because because.
Speaker 1: Part of that is because they're in the championships, and
part of that is because they're in the championships, more
stars are showing up, right, But there have always been
stars court sided. I mean, Spike Lee and Ben Stiller
have been court sided next games for years. They're known
for that. Even Timothy shallow May, long before this season,
was actually known for being a Knicks fan for showing
up having court side seats. There was a social media
post that went out earlier this week which he was
apparently featured on the NIXT social media like when he
was fifteen years old, right because he was some super
fan at the time.
Speaker 2: I feel that the pr machine is in full force
now when it comes to those front row seats. Uh,
you see a lot more And he has designed and
he has chrumb rit chrumb Heart's designing clothes for him,
especially to attend the show. That kind of stuff. I
think it's just a lot more. Uh. It feels more
like a red carpet than anything else. So anyway, on
TikTok and everywhere. People were kind of like complaining a
little bit about that, because I understand if you were
a fan, if you were if you you know, a
fan of sports or whatever, and you can't afford tickets,
there's always that take that you know, these people get
tickets for free, and you know they get to be
there and and you know they have bodyguards in front
of them, disrupting the whole thing. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But I just want to say it. Last night Ben
Stellar was being interviewed post game, but I think by
Charles Barklay, and he was asked, you know, how long
have you been a season ticket holder? And he rather
sheepishly but honestly replied, I'm not They just give select
liberties tickets. They just give us free tickets.
Speaker 2: He said, I don't have them.
Speaker 1: There was a little bit of a backlashing or probably
I don't know, I haven't checked. At the time. When
I saw that, I was like, well, at least he's
being honest. I don't have a problem with it, And
I mean to be honest this whole conversation. I'm just like,
all right, I as someone who writes about celebrities and
their apparent public appearances all the time. Sure, all weigh
in on this, but I'm not a Knicks fan, I'm
not a New Yorker, I'm not a basketball fan. So
whatever happens happens. I'm not offended by any of it.
I mean, I don't really have like, oh that you know,
they shouldn't be giving tickets somebody who here's my take,
And we talked about this before the mics and we're
flipped on. Excuse me, We've spent the last fifteen years,
twenty almost twenty years talking about celebrities and how they're
utilized for publicity and how you know they're brought you know,
not just for red carpet premieres, but how many times
have we had a party where they're just selling watches
or jewelry, right, and they just invite a bunch of
celebrities every front row at fashion shows, it's the same thing.
You're just inviting those people, put giving them basically free outfits,
and sitting them in the front row for the publicity.
So I cannot in good conscience sit here and say
wal Taylor Swift doesn't deserve to be there.
Speaker 2: I mean, yes she does.
Speaker 1: She's generating an insane amount of publicity. Of course, so
was Timothy Shallomy insane amount of publicity. And you know, okay,
he's he's wearing custom fits from Chrome Hearts or whatever.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: But you and I both know our readers, all no,
our listeners know this is the game. This is the
celebrity game. You bring them in for attention, you give
them gifts and whatever.
Speaker 2: Go ahead. I'm sorry. Now, I do agree that, you know,
celebrities get everything for free, and obviously tickets too. I
don't have a problem with that, and I don't have
a problem with the whole thing. I just understand some
of the perspective here, because if you were a fan,
you're focusing on the game and all of a sudden,
the cameras are shifting to something else and they get
all the attention. And it does if you watch the videos,
if you watch them front roo.
Speaker 1: Oh, they're performative.
Speaker 2: It does feel very performative.
Speaker 1: A a Risco archetype thing where she ran out onto
the court last night. Yeah, and you were rolling your
eyes at it, and I was like, yeah, but she's
a performer, Like that's that's the way they think.
Speaker 2: That's a little disruptive to me. If you're a fan
of the game and the players. It feels like the
attention is not on the players as it should be
one hundred percent. That's my take.
Speaker 1: It also feels like some of these I'm going to
say it, they're a little gender like.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: You know, people get annoyed at Timothy, but the real
reason they're annoyed at Timothy is because his girlfriend is
sitting next to him, right, And people would not get
annoyed with Travis Kelcey being there, but his girlfriends.
Speaker 2: They actually got very annoyed with him drinking that beer.
Speaker 1: I don't think they have a problem with him being there,
that's the thing, right, But anytime Taylor Swift shows up
anywhere at a sporting event, there's all this discussion about
whether she deserves to be there and whether she's a
true fan, And you know what, like football players wives.
I'm sorry, free pass, and she is almost a football
player's wife at this point. I don't think we need
to question why she's at that game. I think it's
sexist as hell, and I think it's just one of
those anti Taylor things that no, I don't agree with that.
I just don't. People have no problem with Ben Stellar
or Spike Lee or Mike Bloomberg or whoever else is
sitting front row. But when the girls show up as well,
are they true fans? Are they acting respectfully?
Speaker 2: Right? But you mentioned Spike Lee and Ben Steeler for example,
They've always been attending shows and that level of attention
was never placed on them.
Speaker 1: I disagree. I've always seen pictures of what Spike Lee
was wearing. No, I don't know, I've seen a championship.
Speaker 2: I've seen pictures of them. But the level of attention
to the front room now, it's and I'm not just
saying the ladies to tell us wife or whatever. I'm
just saying in general, it feels like it's a lot
more at carpety than before. And maybe that's approach mats.
Maybe that's the way they're going.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, I this doesn't bother me.
Number one reason is because it is not my sport
or my hometown. But it's New York. There's a lot
of celebrities in New York so and they are in
the championships. Like to say, if the Mets were in
the World Series, I'm pretty sure we would be I
know we would be seeing a ton of celebrities in
the stands.
Speaker 2: But New York also doesn't give a shit about celebrities.
And then you can tell if you watch them, they don't.
People around them are okay, I mean they're like, they're
not even.
Speaker 1: No, of course not.
Speaker 2: It's New York. It's New York. They don't give a shit.
Speaker 1: It's everybody's sitting in those sheets has paid thousands and
thousands and thousands of dollars, so.
Speaker 2: You don't see much much reaction from them. It's it's
pretty much the whole pr thing on the people attending
the show, and and you know, things like I don't know,
I find it a little bit too much the way
they react in all the running and hugging the players
and stuff like that. It feels a little too much
for me.
Speaker 1: There, all right, I think we've beaten that one. I'd
love to hear your thoughts, especially from any New Yorkers
or any NBA fans or Knicks fans. How do you
feel about the celebrities showing up in their little outfits.
I don't I don't see that much different from a
World Series or even Wimbledon when we cover people in
their outfits at Wimbledon. So I mean, I take your
point about performativeness, but I, as I said, they're performers.
Speaker 2: What's next Next we can talk about the uh crazy
wonderful success of Jix Munson Rupol's drag Race. She's been
killing it. She you know, we know she did Chicago
Little Shop of Horrors and Doctor Who. We know all that,
and she's extremely talented. And now she's doing a play
I believe right.
Speaker 1: And she's doing a Judy Garland and yeah play. I
saw a music and I didn't love it. I love her.
She was singing Strings of my Heart and I was like, yeah,
she's just sort of rushing through it.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I'm gonna agree with you. I don't love it.
I think she was way more funny on the drag Ratio.
I think when you when the whole when it's a
whole show about Judy Garland, I feel like it's a
little too I don't know, it feels like a little too.
I don't it's not natural. I mean she plays it
too much, you know. I mean, like all the characters
of Judy Garland feels a little feels a little too overplayed.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing when you get into like Judy in
her Carnegie Hall era, which is essentially what most drag
queens who do Judy are basically doing Carnegie Hall Judy,
and Jinks does this, but I think the mistake in
her Judy impersonation is that she overstates like Judy was
very funny, very witty, and very sarcastic, like that was
I mean, And I think that's what Jinks tends to
play up, that sort of half drunk Judy basically half drunk,
sort of mouthing off, rolling her eyes at everyone, kind
of wandering all over the stage. But if you look
at Judy in the sixties, before it really fell apart
for her, she was always sharp on stage, even when
she was visibly drunk, even when she was rambling or
getting overly emotional or or getting a little too sarcastic.
When it came time to hit her mark and hit
her she was extremely professional. It was only at the
very very end when she couldn't really do those things anymore.
Speaker 2: And Jinks doesn't play her that way.
Speaker 1: She plays a very loosey, goosey Judy and it's funny
and sometimes she really does sound like her, But I'm like, yeah,
I'm not hearing the precision because that was something. Thing
about Judy as a performer is that she was insanely
precise and technical, almost entire almost all the way up
until the end. So sometimes I don't mean to turn
this into a critique.
Speaker 2: No, it's an interesting critique because it does feel like
someone watched too many videos on YouTube, those.
Speaker 1: Talk show videos when she was like doing the Tonight Show,
and then.
Speaker 2: She kind of does the same, which is not very subtle.
But she's killing it. Everyone is loving it, and she's
doing great, is extremely town. And now she's going to
do O Mary. She did it in New York and
now she's going to do it in England.
Speaker 1: And then the stunt casting for oh Mary is getting
out of hand, don't.
Speaker 2: You listen when when first when O Mary first first appeared.
You know, I love the concept. I loved everything about it.
I thought it was incredible that Colewitz Kolar right, was
getting all this attention. He works so hard. They they
I'm sorry, they worked so hard to make that happen.
So I was very happy with the whole thing. But
then it became the thing now that everybody wants to
play the part, and it's just again attention seeking, you.
Speaker 1: Know, it's a Broadway play, I know, but.
Speaker 2: It feels like, oh my god, I don't know. It's
just like attention on me, me me, me, me me me,
not the project, not.
Speaker 1: The I heard that Jenks was taking over on the
West End for Catherine Tate, who has been I didn't
realize Catherine Tate was playing the character, and I did
sort of go Okay, I mean I get it, like
Catherine Tate can play oh Mary as she's written the
sort of over the top, you know, neurotic Cabaret sing
or character. But my first thought was, really is she
doing is she doing that accent?
Speaker 2: Well? Is she doing a British like?
Speaker 1: Which is silly because of course this play is not
remotely historically accurate. There's no point in complaining any worrying
about that. But I do take your part. The only
casting that really made me excited, no, actually was Maya Rudolph. Yes,
because just as it putting a non binary or male performer,
because Titus Bridges also played, putting a black woman in
that in those skirts. Okay, that's going to be funny,
especially my Rudolf, who is so funny. Betty Gilpin, sure,
but because she's really talented talented, but I do not
think she's I don't think she's right for the role.
Speaker 2: Not really.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she did fine in it. She's done, she's
long done, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, they only do a couple of you know, show
a couple of weeks. Yeah, yeah, a couple of weeks
and that's it. Now. Megan tells her she's gonna do it.
Speaker 1: Well to be honest, that if she can learn her
lines and hit her mark, if she would be perfect.
Speaker 2: If she can remember her lines, yeah, she would.
Speaker 1: Be perfect for it. I mean that's she's essentially a
female Cola Scola in some ways, yea, without the discipline.
Speaker 2: All right, anyway, but the whole point on on on
TikTok and everything about Jake Munts, who was said, uh,
very talented drag Queen's you know on the show, and
then that we people felt that they should focus more
on that than have just pretty queens on the show,
because then you have this incredible talent Race are Oh Mary, No,
I'm talking about drag Race and Queen's and jig why
why Jackman's it's out there doing so great and uh
if you and you made the point that she won twice, right, she.
Speaker 1: Won twice, and I think she's the only one who
has one toy.
Speaker 2: But for a long time, drag Race kind of made
fun of people like that, like her her type of drag.
Speaker 1: I mean, well, first off, Rue, she has a a
bug up ers about the theater queens, and she always
did Rue and the whole show is based on Rue's
concept concept of drag, which is based on Ru's own
career as a drag queen. So Ru did not come
from this very practiced theatrical cabaret sorts background to drag.
She came up from the street. She was a club kid.
She did burlesque, she did you know, she did shows,
she did lip syncing and that sort of thing. But
she wasn't a cabaret performer, and she wasn't a theater performer,
and she had no training. And that's why drag Race
kind of disdains those overtrained queens and loves those messy
ass queens who are who make Ru laugh. The show
was always prioritized messy drag, over disciplined to drag, which
is a shame. And we when we were writing our
book Legendary Children, we kept trying to pull in examples
of disciplined drag performers like you know, Charles Bush, And
there is a piece on Charles Bush in the book,
But it was hard to pull those people in and
talk about them because that's not what's the show prioritizes.
It prioritizes street drag, messy drag. It pulls from John
Waters films, and the ballroom. It does not pull from
cabaret or Broadway or Vogue, which are all major heavy
inspirations on drag. It's kind of like genres of drag.
There's fashion drag, there's cabaret drag, there's Broadway drag, there's
you know, lip syncing drag, there's ballroom drag. And Rue
has never loved those theater queens. It's too Jinx's credit
that she was able to secure two wins basically because
she blew everyone else out of the water. Her talent
level was so high it was hard you could not
deny it. And also she is something of a messy
queen when she wants to be. And I think that
did appeal to rule.
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree, but yeah, but there are yeah,
I mean, Ben Delacram is another one who's extremely talented.
Speaker 1: Jnjerminch is extremely talented.
Speaker 2: Exactly so queens. So people were talking about that, the
fact that you know, maybe we should embrace these queens
a little more.
Speaker 1: Because they said of the Instagram queens.
Speaker 2: And queens were the design of clothes, you know. But
I guess, I guess there should be room for all
of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My take.
Speaker 1: The bottom line is that Drag Race is not gonna
I mean, it never has. We're heading into almost its
third decade at this point, and I don't think there's
no change coming unless roofsteps but down. There's no change coming.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you watch the episode without the sound,
it's the same show every single.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we're committed to doing I don't hate
the show. I still love to watch Drag Queens. Yes,
I still every season, even of all Stars, I still
am like, all right, new crop, fresh crop, let's see
where it goes. It's just that the show is very stale,
and it's very hard to write about without sounding bitter
all the time.
Speaker 2: Right. I feel the judges are basically the same every time,
you know, like the whole thing with the last the
latest episode with the sisters and Michelle going on and
on about that, Oh they don't look the same. I'm like,
oh my god, that.
Speaker 1: We there again?
Speaker 2: Are we there again? Anyway? It feels like anyway it
needs to be uh freshened up a little bit, I guess.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I agree with that. Why don't we take a
short break and we'll be right back. We're back, and
I'm just going to toss to Lorenzo who has this
latest celebrity brew haha on TikTok So.
Speaker 2: Anyway, uh, heated rivalry again, another story. They seem to
be going after everybody.
Speaker 1: They are going to let themselves become the worst fandom
and all of fandom. The reputation has plummeted.
Speaker 2: I knew this was coming. Someone has to take over. Yeah,
I knew this was going to happen. Fame came too
quickly for these guys. Unfortunately.
Speaker 1: It's why I tapped out as soon as I was like,
I can tell what this is.
Speaker 2: And I see I could see the whole machinery in action, uh,
in terms of pr in terms of fame for these guys,
everything the fans reacting. So the bottom line is that
they have no problem with the kind of story, but
with everybody else.
Speaker 1: This is what I said to you before we flipped
on the mics. That's my thing. So okay, right now,
the fan them is going after Hudson Williams, and Will
and Lorenzo will explain why. But they've actually been going
after him for a while, partially because he has a girlfriend,
and that is killed the fantasy. It killed the fantasy,
and so the fandom was going after him for like,
I don't know, queer baiting or something whatever. I guess
straight actors can't play gay now. And then they also
went after Francois Arnau because they thought he was like
grooming connor story or so I was too to date, Yeah,
because there was some indication that they were having some
sort of fling and there was an age gap, although
it wasn't really anything scandalous. And bottom line is he's
their special curly haired boy that they all love, their
special little queer boyfriend, and they are attacking anybody else
who threatens poor little cherubic Connor's story. And again I
saw and you know it's not for nothing. Hudson Williams
is not.
Speaker 2: He's by right.
Speaker 1: So it's the little blonde, blue eyed, curly haired cherub
that they're all trying to protect from these evil evil
Asian men and queer men like older guys. Undertones of
this gross. Having said all that, first of all, we
don't even know if the pictures are real. But describe,
I think the pictures are really okay, Describe what picture the.
Speaker 2: Latest bomb is that they found, because they will find
and that's the problem. Now. They found pictures of Hudson
Williams with the swastka drawn on his forehead. Now their
old pictures when he was very young with friends playing.
Speaker 1: They had magic marker, like all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2: Right. The story, apparently, allegedly is that people were drawing
things on somebody else's forehead.
Speaker 1: They wasn't they were asleep or something.
Speaker 2: I don't know that, I don't know, but they were
just playing. I guess, I guess. You know, you you
couldn't see what they were drawing. Uh, and then they
were done drawing. But you know, at some when you're
going to look and see what they drew. But anyway,
that's that's that's my take. Anyway. So these pictures, you know,
resurfaced because he always do, and they were all, you know,
huge backlash and criticizing him for those pictures and stuff.
He has never as far as I know, addressed the
whole issue, hasn't mentioned it, talked about.
Speaker 1: He's smart, he would just talk about it.
Speaker 2: Apparently he wasn't unaware of what has been had been
drawn on his forehead. That's the story.
Speaker 1: What is the origin of these pictures? Where were they
found on his social media or.
Speaker 2: No, it's not very clear where they were found.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but questions.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I think if they were faked, he would
have come out and said these pictures are.
Speaker 1: Not even I'm not necessarily suggesting that they're fake, I'm
just what was who who had these pictures?
Speaker 2: Where were they? One of the friends, friends of the friends, Yes, yes,
one of the friends of the friends of the friends.
Speaker 1: I'm sure fine, Uh yeah, Shade.
Speaker 2: I can only say one thing. I'm very very thankful
that social media did not exist when I was a kid. Well,
I do not that I did any of that. Have
swastikas on your I never know any of that. Let
me be clear, he had, but I'm sure it would
have me doing something stupid that I'd be ashamed of.
Speaker 1: Having said that. I do think when you are how
old is Hudson Williams his twenties, he's twenty five or
twenty six that young. Uh yeah, you really can't claim
that you didn't know the swastikas were bad in twenty
fifteen or whatever, like you know it was bad back then. Yeah,
he's twenty five, so the new pictures are only about
ten years old. And I mean, listen, yeah, you're right.
We do dumb stuff when we're and I don't think
anything needs to happen. I don't think he needs to
give a statement. I don't think he certainly shouldn't lose
his job or anything.
Speaker 2: Right, several times I have stopped and thought about my
pets and I was like, did I do it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Never done anything like.
Speaker 1: No, I never know. There are no swastikas. There's no
blackface in that past. I mean, I know that part
of me is pristine.
Speaker 2: No. I wasn't that kind of guy.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure I said some stupid ass things that
I would fringe at now.
Speaker 2: Yes, So apparently I think got so bad that they
somewhere somehow. Simoul Liu, the actor, was interviewed and defended
him up. Yeah, yeah, he defended him. Said, you know,
massive hate campaigns against actors of color has been happening.
Happened to me and he's happened to this guy now,
meaning Hudson Williams, and you know, that's just horrible.
Speaker 1: And he's not the best spokesperson for this because seemingly
has been problematic in his own ways over there years.
He's made comments. Yeah, there's been some problematic stuff in
his own social media in fact, but he's not wrong
about this. He's not wrong about this. Like why, I mean,
what do his fans? What do you care that he
did something stupid when he was sixteen? The only reason
you're making an issue of this is because you want
to somehow hurt him. And the other reason you want
to hurt him is because you're precious little curly boy
is being threatened by the poor biracial Asian Nazi that
you've made up in your head. I think fandoms are silly, silly,
silly thing.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think these things are going to happen more
and more with social media, you know, because people do shit.
Speaker 1: Like that, They're going to I do think it's worth
questioning whether this is a real picture. That's my point,
because we're we are getting to a point where you
are not going to be able to tell easily and
they can put any kind of picture out there. So
it's worth questioning when these things come up, and it's
worth noting the implications of constantly attacking this one actor's
co stars because you have a crush on that actor.
And we aren't talking about twelve year olds here, we
are talking about adults.
Speaker 2: I do feel the book people in general are different
breath when it comes to TV shows and movies.
Speaker 1: There are you romance books. That's what you're saying. I
will fill in the blank there. You don't have the
guts to say it now.
Speaker 2: I will say every time a book gets turned into
a movie or a TV show or there's always this conversation,
this craziness showing out somehow.
Speaker 1: That's why I don't like to review shows that are
based on books. I don't even like to review movies
that are based on books because people just don't understand.
We're not here to talk about the book, right, We're
here to talk about the adaptation.
Speaker 2: I think it's fine to make comparisons, but when you
fight for those changes or differences, you know, between the
book and the project, I think it's a little crazy.
And Yet when you go after people, go after the
actors and things like that, that's why I don't. Yeah,
I don't touch the show anymore. And there's a new
season coming and I'm like, oh no, I don't.
Speaker 1: Want to be And I'm happy for the actors. I'm
literally I am actually happy for the fans. It's a
good show and everyone is happy with the show. But
this is what happens with the sort of rabid fandoms,
is that they suck all of the joy out of it.
Just as as an aside, Back in the day, long
before I was a blogger, I used to hang out
on nerd forums, on comic book forums, and for ten
years I was a moderator at CBR CBR dot com,
which is a shit site now. But and this is
in the nineties and the odds, and every once in
a while I'll go back to those forums because I
still read comics. I still love comics, and I want
to have someplace to talk about them. And I'll go
and I'm like, oh god, the worst, the worst thing
you can do to talk about the stuff you love
is to find a fandom, yes, because all they will
do is complain. And yeah, I will go to CBR
or some or I'll look at stuff on Reddit or
on social media conversations about the books that I'm reading,
and it's so sour, it's so entitled, because you have
devoted all of your online persona to talking about this
one thing, right, so the you can't praise it all
the time, so you have to turn to nitpicky complaints.
And the complaints get more and more bizarre over time
because they're fed by a social media crowd and you're
all in this little bubble, and your anger is getting
more and more intense over stupid shit, like why.
Speaker 2: There's a tail place where you can have a decent
conversation about anything anymore online because all you have to do,
as a crazy fan is to search that person's name
and then you go there you'll find I mean, I
see that happening all the time. Sometimes I'm like on
Instagram or whatever, the conversation is fine, and all of
a sudden, all these people just showed up and then
ruin it for everybody else because they do a search
and then find that that specific post or whatever and
they destroy it.
Speaker 1: It's true, but that's all I have to say about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I don't know. I mean, I
think it's awkward. I'm not gonna, you know, pretend that
this is not something that should be criticized. Now. It's awkward,
and you know you shouldn't be doing shit like that.
Speaker 1: But I also don't think he owes anyone an explanation.
I mean, really, if he was I don't know, Adam
January sixth or something like that, But fooling around with
teenagers ten years ago, long before you were famous, someone
found the picture of you, and well, there's something objectionable
in the picture.
Speaker 2: I don't know. If I had swatsk on my forehead,
I'd apologize for it, That's all I'm saying. But that's
just I.
Speaker 1: Get I mean, I get it. We are in a
very politicized time. We are in a time of rising
anti semitism, so and I get that people's antennas are up.
But I also think expecting stars to apologize for teenage
shit that happened long before they were stars, I think
you just personally, I think he should ignore it. I
really do. But again, we'd love to hear from all
y'all on the.
Speaker 2: Should he apologize or ignore it?
Speaker 1: Yes? All right, we'll take a short break and we're
gonna spoil the latest episode of Widows Bay. So if
you don't want to be spoiled on the latest episode
of Widows Bay, love you mean it.
Speaker 2: Bye Bye.
Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow with a Bitter Kitten movie club
on Lorenzo's favorite film of all time Better Babette's Feast.
But we are coming back in a minute to talk
about Widows Bay. We're back, and we're just gonna wrap
this up by talking about the most recent Widow's Bay.
I wasn't I wasn't actually planning on talking about it,
but pardon me, tab is walking all over the place.
I had a theory last week about the show, and
the theory sort of was answered in this week's episode,
but there was a bit of a twist to it,
so I did want to get into that. But first
I will say I love every episode of Widows Bay
and the scene with Dale Dickey actually made this episode,
but this was probably my least favorite episode of the show,
just because there wasn't it felt like a bridge between
everything that had happened and whatever they're planning for the finale,
So it was just more you know, it was still
a lot of it felt liminal. It felt like an
interim episode, right.
Speaker 2: Not not a lot happened, But whatever happened was excuse me,
freaking hilarious. I only think the Dale Dickie scene will
now I think the whole thing was funny. First of all,
I was thrilled to see Betty Gilpin Beck briefly, Yes, briefly,
but Beck, Oh you're back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they should bring her back in season two
as a descendant.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, They're
not going to do it. I just find the show
so witty, so clever, so amazing. Yeah, lines are just
freaking intelligent and hilarious. I mean, I just love the show,
love the show. Was not expecting to love the show
this much. But I think it has a lot to
do with the writing, obviously, but also the performance. They're
all amazing.
Speaker 1: Matthew Rees, Katia Flann, and Steven Root are just the
MVPs of this show. But then you have people like
Dale Dickie, who I'm so glad they gave her that scene,
and I I really wish they would give Jeff Hiller
a scene. That guy won an Emmy last year for
Somebody somewhere and he's in the background and he's funny.
But they really I want them to give him they started.
That's the other thing is that the island, the show
is populated with all these other people, and you're starting
to get the sense, all right, well let's see some
of these other people. Like they're starting to pay more
attention to the sheriff and his wife who are facing
a real dilemma because she's about to give birth.
Speaker 2: Well, it's gonna happen. I mean, yeah, I think that's
gonna happen.
Speaker 1: So here's my take. I said last week that I
I pointed out the painting in the inn that showed
the child swimming away in the water from the you know,
the in the storm or whatever, and that this implied
that one of the founder's children had survived, and if
that's the case, then his bloodline is probably still going on.
Why else would you show that unless that's the point.
And I was correct on that, which I'm not patting
myself on the back. It was very, very obvious that
that's where the show was leading, and everyone was talking
about him online and on Reddit. So I'm not taking
credit for it, but I really thought it was going
to be a son like dramatically speaking, that makes the
most sense. He's so conflicted that this is even real.
But at the same time, for sixteen years, he's been
keeping his son under wraps, and.
Speaker 2: When they made him sit down and pay attention to
the whole presentation, I was like, it's gonna be him.
It's going to be a son, and I I have to.
Speaker 1: It's sort of like in Severance when they in the
first episode of sevens when they took a long time
revealing who Mark's dead wife was, and you really really
thought it was his coworker, britt Lower. You really thought
that was going to be the reveal, and it turned
out to be his other co worker. And when I
remember when that scene happened, because you were everything was
indicating that you know, the person you think it is
is this person, and at the very last second they
show somebody else. And I remember at the time saying,
my brain shut off. I did not expect that, and
I felt like the writers were deliberately like inside my head,
fucking with me. And I think this is kind of
a I think the writing is smart enough to know
that at this point the viewership will be making connections
and assuming it's the sun right, and it turns out
she gets to this long diatribe where she points out
every dead baby, every lesbian, and every developmentally disabled child
that was born in the last four hundred years. She
didn't say developmentally.
Speaker 2: Now the overhead projector.
Speaker 1: And she's smoking. But when she gets to the and
the reveal is Ruth, the elderly secretary played by Kay Callen,
and then it turns into this whole discussion of do
we kill her or whatever.
Speaker 2: The whole conversation was hysterical.
Speaker 1: I suspect Ruth is not going to survive the storm anyway.
She's ninety years old, and they said she was still
in her house. But I just did, Yeah, I just
want to say that I don't think she's the end
of the line. They made a point of showing a
young Ruth in the nineteen fifties who won I think
the Miss Widow's Bay, Beauty Pasant or whatever. And I
said to Lorenzo, I was like, she got a secret baby.
I mean, why would they show her young and beautiful?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And I don't believe that was a picture of Kay Callan.
I think that was some actress that's going to appear
in a flashback at so I.
Speaker 2: Think that's what's going to happen. She's going to be
dead with the storm because of the storm.
Speaker 1: And she'll be his secret grandmother was going to think
it's over over and something happens.
Speaker 2: There's a baby. There was a baby somewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But that's my take.
Speaker 2: I agree. No, I think that's that's I don't.
Speaker 1: Think this show necessarily needs to be unpacked like a
puzzle box. I mean, I know there are clues. I've
actually started rewatching it and there are oh okay, I
mean there are things that are foreshadowed a lot throughout it,
like the painting, like the think out the baby, you know,
a kid in the water and everything. This was all
rather meticulously plotted out. But I I think it's more
about the performances and the humor of it. I mean,
it's fun to unpack where the show is going, but
it's we're not talking lost here, you.
Speaker 2: Know, right. What I love about the shoe, it's something
very simple that not a lot of shows do, is
to make things look real. When he's removing the put
off the wall, I mean, I forgot about that was
a really funny scene. Yes, what would happen if you're
trying to if you're angry and you're trying to remove
a very heavy frame off the wall. Just hilarious when
she's smoking and she turns a fan on and it's
just like I can't hear anything, we can't hear and
then she just and you know, dead baby, dead baby lesbian?
Do you really have to say it like that? What?
I can't say that anymore.
Speaker 1: It's just a it's a really funny.
Speaker 2: Show, funariot.
Speaker 1: You know why I don't think this one rates all
that high for me is because there was nothing scary
in it. Oh okay, there were no scares. It was
just that's what I mean about it being kind of liminal.
Speaker 2: Like well, the guy, you know, the guy who got
sucked up by the wasn't scary. Funny, but it's funny,
but it's also like horrifying, I know, the whole sky,
you know. And yeah, they do that. They do a
good job. I think that. I mean, I'm loving the show.
I'm having the show.
Speaker 1: But I want them to bring Betty Gilpin back as
a descendant.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's actually Sarah Westcott.
Speaker 1: I think her name is.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine if that would be really fun? Anyway,
keep watching if you're watching it, I you know, it's.
Speaker 1: Fun canally next week.
Speaker 2: If I haven't watched it yet, give it a shot.
It's a fantastic show.
Speaker 1: It is, and I believe that is it for us
this week. We will be back next week withever with
whatever crosses ours across as our desks, and we will
be back tomorrow. Yes for the Bitter Kit and move
the cleb, and we will have much to say about
Babat's face. Until then, take care of yourselves of you
mean it, but bye,