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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the nonprofit. Say again, the Bible is one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent correct.

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<v Speaker 2>Huh.

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<v Speaker 1>I was thinking maybe it was more of a question

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<v Speaker 1>of Sully stories made by people a couple thousand years

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<v Speaker 1>ago who thought eating selfish was a sin and slavery

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<v Speaker 1>was an okay practice. Are you arching an eyebrow? You

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<v Speaker 1>should be. Let's have Kelly get us through this article

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<v Speaker 1>from the Wild Hunt. Shall we Kelly take it away?

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<v Speaker 3>Well? Helen? Christian nationalist lawmakers in West Virginia have introduced

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<v Speaker 3>a resolution to have the Bible recognized as an accurate

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<v Speaker 3>historical record of human history. I guess they just forgot

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<v Speaker 3>the first four hundred and fifty thousand years. And then

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<v Speaker 3>it goes on to describe it as the ultimate moral

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<v Speaker 3>authority and claiming it is divinely inspired. Even worse, the

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<v Speaker 3>resolution calls for the Bible to be placed prominently in

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<v Speaker 3>all public buildings, including schools, and give it a reverend

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<v Speaker 3>from state laws and policies, currently law declaring the Kingship

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<v Speaker 3>of Jesus Christ as being advanced to North Dakota. Of course,

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<v Speaker 3>these resolutions are totally unconstitutional and hopefully won't hold up

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<v Speaker 3>in court, but it seems at least some of the

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<v Speaker 3>state government GOP leaders have recognized this as well, because

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<v Speaker 3>they seem to be shuffling this bill around so it

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't gain any traction in any of the committees. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>if it does manage to get past one of these committees,

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<v Speaker 3>it will head to the ballot box and be voted

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<v Speaker 3>on in twenty twenty six to see if the state's

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<v Speaker 3>residents are willing to defy the US Constitution and codify

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<v Speaker 3>this resolution into state law. So this will be an

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<v Speaker 3>interesting vote to keep an eye on in the future.

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<v Speaker 3>This story is from The Wild Hunt by Many moreto

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<v Speaker 3>and Many Tejeda, published on March fourth, twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Kelly, Kelly, Kelly, my fellow dirty heathen, we know

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<v Speaker 1>that the Bible is not the inherent word of God

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<v Speaker 1>and fill with so many holes.

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<v Speaker 3>Hell and I don't know that.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, fine, okay, But it's filled with so many holes

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<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't hold a thimblefol of water. But why do

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<v Speaker 1>you think that West Virginia is even trying to codify

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<v Speaker 1>the Bible as the almas authority of human behavior. I

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<v Speaker 1>would love to hear your opinion on this, because it

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<v Speaker 1>is a trip.

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<v Speaker 3>This is this is This is a way too, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think I mentioned it earlier in the week. This

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<v Speaker 3>is a way for the GOP to take attention away

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<v Speaker 3>from the fact that they aren't solving society's problems. We're

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<v Speaker 3>not we're not making we're not getting rid of poverty,

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<v Speaker 3>we're not solving crime, we're not doing we're not solving inflation.

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<v Speaker 3>They're doing none of the things that they said that

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<v Speaker 3>they were going to do. So what they do instead is, well, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the majority of our voters are Christians, so

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<v Speaker 3>let's pass a Christian law to get them all back

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<v Speaker 3>on our side, because as long as we keep doing that,

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<v Speaker 3>they will keep voting for us, even if we don't

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<v Speaker 3>solve any of their problems.

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<v Speaker 1>But are they trying to do an argument for popular fallacy?

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<v Speaker 2>You think?

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<v Speaker 4>I don't.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know that that's what it is, like argument

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<v Speaker 3>from argument, argumentum ad populum, Hold on a minute, toy bote,

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<v Speaker 3>toy boat, toy vote. Okay, I don't know that that's

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<v Speaker 3>what it is. But they're definitely using Christianity to get

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<v Speaker 3>themselves votes when it looks like probably they can't stand

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<v Speaker 3>on their record to get those votes. So that's fair

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<v Speaker 3>that's fair.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Tracy, you mentioned that you weren't you weren't brops

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<v Speaker 1>from a religious So how did you feel about the

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<v Speaker 1>Bible being accurate and not have any problems at all

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<v Speaker 1>according to this particular stance.

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<v Speaker 2>So I wasn't raised super religious, but I was raised Catholic.

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<v Speaker 2>But I was, you know, a Christmas Eastern kind of Catholic.

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't the You know what I'm gonna tell you

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<v Speaker 2>is this. It's It's patently absurd. It is simply patently absurd.

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<v Speaker 2>When you look in the book, you can find certain statements.

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<v Speaker 2>If you check those statements against reality, you find that

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<v Speaker 2>those statements do not hold up against reality. If I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know what definition of true we're using, but mine

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<v Speaker 2>is that which comports with reality, and the book doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>comport with reality. So this, this statement is just a

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<v Speaker 2>flat out lie. It is simply untrue, and they know

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<v Speaker 2>it is untrue. If you look, America isn't a land

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<v Speaker 2>where kings exist. If you vote to inaugurate Jesus this

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<v Speaker 2>guy as the king of America, you have now voted

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<v Speaker 2>for not having America anymore. If you vote to to

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<v Speaker 2>heighten a certain religious text above all others. Okay, well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's directly flies in the face of the First Amendment.

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<v Speaker 2>You have now voted to not have America anymore. It's

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<v Speaker 2>it's pretty flat out and simple. And either of these laws,

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<v Speaker 2>either of these ideas, are just voting because you don't

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<v Speaker 2>like America. You don't want America to exist, you want

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of theocratic regime. You don't like America.

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<v Speaker 1>But Tracy freedom, freedom, freedom from so Eli you you

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned and you're like, you know certain things about the Bible,

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<v Speaker 1>like love that namer and you know others, certain things

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<v Speaker 1>that we could, you know, kind of agree on. But

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<v Speaker 1>what was your kind of sticking point with this particular story?

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<v Speaker 4>So, like, are there some things that are written in

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<v Speaker 4>what we now recognize as the Bible that you can

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<v Speaker 4>say aren't the worst advice? Sure, but that doesn't then

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<v Speaker 4>lead logically to this book is completely and totally morally

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<v Speaker 4>good in its entirety. And I don't know where they're

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<v Speaker 4>getting this idea that that's the case. Like, yeah, like

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<v Speaker 4>you said, love thy neighbor. Jesus is reported to have

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<v Speaker 4>said that I think that's not bad, Like, okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>if your neighbor is a dick, like I'm not going

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<v Speaker 4>to hold you to that, Like, don't you don't have

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<v Speaker 4>to be super kind to your neighbor if your neighbor's

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<v Speaker 4>a dick. Like I think there's different Like there's subjective morality,

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<v Speaker 4>and there's different ways to look at different situations, and

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<v Speaker 4>what is the most moral choice is going to be

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<v Speaker 4>primarily subjective, not only to the circumstances, but to the

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<v Speaker 4>individuals involved. So to as Tracy said, to name one

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<v Speaker 4>religious code as the moral authority for all of a

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<v Speaker 4>nation and not just that religious group is a direct

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<v Speaker 4>violation of the establishment clause. And not only that, but

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<v Speaker 4>I really really want to know where they're getting the

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<v Speaker 4>idea that the Bible is morally good, because it's it's

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<v Speaker 4>the construably not.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to point it up too, this is this

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<v Speaker 1>article was a Wild Time, which is a pagan you

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<v Speaker 1>know news outlet. I'm as a foreign pagan. I would

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<v Speaker 1>like to acknowledge my people, which has a is a

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<v Speaker 1>religion that does not proselytize, It does not think that

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<v Speaker 1>it should inject yourself into government. And I think that

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<v Speaker 1>one of the wonderful things about this particular that it

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<v Speaker 1>comes from my hunt that understands the difference between religion

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<v Speaker 1>versus politics. And I think that we can have discussions

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<v Speaker 1>even within religious institutions where we're talking about the establaged

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<v Speaker 1>to clause and using like one book to say like

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<v Speaker 1>this is the moral authority of but that everybody should

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<v Speaker 1>be following. And I think those nuances are really really important.

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<v Speaker 1>We're having this conversation because like, if you get your

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<v Speaker 1>morals from the Bible, great, good for you. Great, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>a question why. But even if you're fram of your

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<v Speaker 1>morals within a religious context, as long as you're have

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<v Speaker 1>compassionate kindness for your fellow human being, I'm not going

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<v Speaker 1>to poopoo on you. But when you start saying like

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<v Speaker 1>the Bible has to be the moral authority for us

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of us dirty heathens and people that don't

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<v Speaker 1>particularly follow that religion, whether you're atheist or not, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to have some quibbles and I'm probably gonna throw

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<v Speaker 1>my hands up and go, hold on, why are you

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<v Speaker 1>saying this particular book has to be correct? So, Tracy,

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<v Speaker 1>do you think the Bible should be the ultimate authority

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<v Speaker 1>on morality? Obviously, I'm I I kind of already know

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<v Speaker 1>your answer, But following that up, what do you think

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<v Speaker 1>other states are going to follow suit? And what happens

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<v Speaker 1>if we try to codify the Bible, Like are we

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<v Speaker 1>going to go back to like stoning people on Sunday

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<v Speaker 1>for working on the Stabbath? Like what is the actual

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<v Speaker 1>outcome of us if we're going to actually say that

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<v Speaker 1>this is the moral authority of how people should behave well.

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<v Speaker 2>Helen uh in our over this week, I've heard Kelly.

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<v Speaker 2>Kelly's really tamped me down a lot about my fears

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<v Speaker 2>of people violating the Bill of Rights. He's really tamped

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<v Speaker 2>me down good.

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<v Speaker 3>And so what I'm gonna.

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<v Speaker 2>Say is, I don't think it's gonna spread. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>even think it's really gonna catch. I think it'll it'll

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<v Speaker 2>get stopped. And if it doesn't get stopped, it'll go

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<v Speaker 2>into Bill's status, and then somebody will appeal it. Somebody

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<v Speaker 2>will say this is very clearly a violation of the

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<v Speaker 2>establishment Clause and we need to get rid of it.

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<v Speaker 2>What I'm gonna say here is that what you were

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<v Speaker 2>talking about earlier about freedom and I and I just

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<v Speaker 2>responded freedom too and freedom from and it's a very

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<v Speaker 2>basic concept. If you move into a primarily Jewish neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 2>You are still allowed to eat pork. If you move

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<v Speaker 2>to Utah, which is primarily you know, the where the US,

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<v Speaker 2>where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is.

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<v Speaker 2>You do not need to revere the con man Joseph Smith.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you and just because you live in America

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<v Speaker 2>does not mean you need to revere an iron age, mytho, history,

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<v Speaker 2>sex manual, and cookbook. It's that plain, flat out and simple.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a country for all people, not just the

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<v Speaker 2>group of people that some, not just the most populous.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a group for everyone.

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<v Speaker 3>That He's right, it is a It is a country

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<v Speaker 3>for everybody. And I don't know where these guys are

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<v Speaker 3>coming up with these crazy laws like this. It seems

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<v Speaker 3>like every every time we turn around here on nonprofits,

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<v Speaker 3>we're talking about another one of these crazy Christian nationalist

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<v Speaker 3>laws that have been introduced somewhere, you know, trying to

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<v Speaker 3>push this religious, let's face it, zelotry. You know, we

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<v Speaker 3>got the Ten Commandment laws in Louisiana and Texas classrooms.

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<v Speaker 3>We got mandatory teaching of the Bible and Oklahoma publicsouls.

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<v Speaker 3>We got that Jesus is King of the USA or

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<v Speaker 3>some other weird shit going out of North Dakota right now.

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<v Speaker 3>And a lot of these bills just aren't really getting passed.

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<v Speaker 3>They're getting put put in, but a lot of them

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<v Speaker 3>aren't getting passed because the GOP leadership realizes that in

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<v Speaker 3>the end this is not going to get them votes.

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<v Speaker 3>There there's a small group of radical people within the

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<v Speaker 3>GOP that thinks the entire country thinks the same way

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<v Speaker 3>they do, and they need to be slapped out and

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<v Speaker 3>shown that the country doesn't. And that's why we're seeing

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<v Speaker 3>like this bill is just getting passed around in committees,

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<v Speaker 3>so eventually it's going to die somewhere and these but

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<v Speaker 3>the party leadership knows that these down ballot races are

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<v Speaker 3>really hurting them with these with this kind of legislation. Sure,

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<v Speaker 3>people are going to vote for the guy at the

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<v Speaker 3>top because there's a cult of personality built around them,

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<v Speaker 3>but as we've just seen in the last election, that

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<v Speaker 3>is not always carrying down carrying through to the down

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<v Speaker 3>ballot races, and a lot of the GOP leaders are

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<v Speaker 3>afraid of that and they're trying to do something about it.

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<v Speaker 3>But we're still going to have these freaking crazy Christian

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<v Speaker 3>nationalists that keep putting these bills in boom boom boom.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think that's a really good point because

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<v Speaker 1>you can put it through. But I don't think it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to make people change their lives. I don't think that,

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<v Speaker 1>Like even if you said that, if they said that,

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, the Bible is the one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 1>and inherent truth, like, it wouldn't change my opinion. It

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't change anything about how I lived my life. So

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<v Speaker 1>why would they expect people to just cowtail and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>automatically bow over to believe it.

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<v Speaker 3>So I was just thinking, if the Bible is inherently true,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm really glad I don't follow it right exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thank goodness you know that I don't. So Eli,

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned some stuff about like, you know, an accrid

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<v Speaker 1>historical record of an accrid historical record of humanist history,

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<v Speaker 1>and you had some quibbles and I would love to

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<v Speaker 1>hear your quibbles with this particular statement.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's a lot like you were kind of just saying,

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<v Speaker 4>They're like you can't, like, are we just going to

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<v Speaker 4>codify a new truth into law? And now, like, are

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<v Speaker 4>we really at a point where there are people who

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<v Speaker 4>believe that you can just make a law saying this

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<v Speaker 4>thing is the truth now, and then that makes it

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<v Speaker 4>actually true about the universe. And I don't think, similar

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<v Speaker 4>to what Kelly was saying, I don't think that anybody,

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<v Speaker 4>anybody in power, actually believes that there may be some

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<v Speaker 4>people throughout. But like, but that aside, that's not my point.

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<v Speaker 4>It's it's that I do think that this is a

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<v Speaker 4>performative measure. This is let's propose this, let's get it

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<v Speaker 4>shut down. It's going to get shut down, and we

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<v Speaker 4>know that, so then later on we can be like, well,

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<v Speaker 4>we tried to do this, and we try to do this,

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<v Speaker 4>but those liberals stopped us. And now if you don't,

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<v Speaker 4>if you don't reelect us, then there's there. You have

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<v Speaker 4>no hope, well your last hope, you know, we need.

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<v Speaker 4>So I think there's some element of that to it.

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<v Speaker 4>But I also think that you can talk to almost

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<v Speaker 4>any Christian about like the types of things they find

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<v Speaker 4>moral and immoral, and there will come a point in

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<v Speaker 4>which their opinion of what is morally good will diverge

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<v Speaker 4>from what the Bible says, and you can point that

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<v Speaker 4>out to them and you can say, look, you can

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<v Speaker 4>tell like you, you agree that this is not a

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<v Speaker 4>morally good thing, whereas it does say it is a

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<v Speaker 4>morally good thing here in the Bible, or vice versa.

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<v Speaker 4>You think this is not morally bad, but the Bible

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<v Speaker 4>says that it is. So you know that you don't

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<v Speaker 4>get your morality from the Bible. That is an example

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<v Speaker 4>of you having some morality that is distinct from what

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<v Speaker 4>God says. Yet you, like those people who have that opinion,

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<v Speaker 4>will still insist that they get their morality from the Bible.

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<v Speaker 4>And I don't understand what the benefit is of of

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<v Speaker 4>knowing that this is not your source of information, but

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<v Speaker 4>insisting that it is and insisting that you maintain with it.

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<v Speaker 4>That's it's something that it's not a logical process that

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<v Speaker 4>I can follow.

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<v Speaker 2>Eli, it sounds like you just haven't read your Bible.

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<v Speaker 4>Working on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Also come from the end where you're a believer, so

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<v Speaker 1>it makes sense and you.

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<v Speaker 4>As an atheist, and then I will just decide to

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<v Speaker 4>believe it and then read it again and.

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<v Speaker 1>It will make perfect sense and everything all your ducks

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<v Speaker 1>will line up, and that's how that works, especially your bed.

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<v Speaker 1>So so should we be worried about like others?

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<v Speaker 5>My my bigger tree duck is over there online Preusser.

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<v Speaker 5>Let if I can't all scuse he's a special big

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<v Speaker 5>a tree duck anyway, seeking of.

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<v Speaker 1>Bigotry and also the Bible possibly being codified, should be

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<v Speaker 1>worried about other states that are following student or should

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<v Speaker 1>we kind of take Kelly's attitude of that, like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you might codify it, but at the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 1>are we really going to follow it? Tracy, what's your

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<v Speaker 1>thought on that?

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<v Speaker 2>Even if they codify it, as they've said, as my

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<v Speaker 2>two co hosts and you have reiterated, it does not

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<v Speaker 2>matter if the law says something is true. If it

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<v Speaker 2>isn't true, then the law is wrong. It's that flat

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<v Speaker 2>out and simple. The laws don't change that which is true.

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<v Speaker 2>Reality determines that which is true. So if they pass it, fine,

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<v Speaker 2>it seems like a performative measure. I agree with Eli.

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<v Speaker 2>Even if they do pass it, it's gonna get knocked

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<v Speaker 2>down by somebody at some point because it's just blatantly wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>And also again our constitution. So there's no sane reality

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<v Speaker 2>where this stays and is actually observed. There's no sane

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<v Speaker 2>reality where that happened.

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly, do you want to elaborate more on what you

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<v Speaker 1>were saying before about like you know, how this is

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<v Speaker 1>just like smoke and mirrors and just like something we

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't really be concerned about.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know that we shouldn't be concerned about it, right,

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<v Speaker 3>I think I think we should. I think we should

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<v Speaker 3>be concerned about it. I don't think in the long run,

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<v Speaker 3>it's going to be a huge problem problem. Like I

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<v Speaker 3>brought up in one of the earlier segments this week,

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<v Speaker 3>all the porn laws that were passed in the nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>eighty anti porn laws that were passed in the eighties

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<v Speaker 3>that are on gone now. They're all gone because we

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<v Speaker 3>couldn't figure out what porn was, right, I think there

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<v Speaker 3>was was it a US representative senator or a senator

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<v Speaker 3>that I don't remember who it was that said, you

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<v Speaker 3>know porn when you see it? And that was it.

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<v Speaker 3>How do you talk about a law no porn when

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<v Speaker 3>you see it? And that's that's you're kind of in

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<v Speaker 3>that same situation. How do you know sin when you

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<v Speaker 3>see it? And and so how do we codify what

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<v Speaker 3>sin is? How do we codify with what religion what

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<v Speaker 3>religion is? We just can't do it. You know, we

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<v Speaker 3>just can't. So I don't think we're gonna hopefully, we

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<v Speaker 3>will see all of these laws eventually get struck down.

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<v Speaker 3>They may even get through some of the local courts,

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<v Speaker 3>they may even get through state courts, but I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think in the long run they're going to be They're

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<v Speaker 3>going to hold up in federal courts. And I want

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<v Speaker 3>to point out that we not only have a conservative

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<v Speaker 3>majority on the Supreme Court, but we have a Catholic

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<v Speaker 3>majority on the Supreme Court as well, and a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of these Protestant evangelical zalet Ze laws are not going

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<v Speaker 3>to get past that Catholic majority. I really don't think

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<v Speaker 3>they will.

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<v Speaker 1>So, so Eli, you know, piggyback off of what is

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<v Speaker 1>being said, what is your kind of perspective about like

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<v Speaker 1>why you know the GOP in certain states are trying

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<v Speaker 1>to push these last fours forward, oh my god, forward?

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<v Speaker 3>And what is your.

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<v Speaker 1>Should we like, I know that we should be concerned

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<v Speaker 1>and something we should fight against, but do you, as

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly said, do you think it's going to hold any water?

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<v Speaker 1>And what for the rest of us that are concerned

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<v Speaker 1>about these things, like what are the type of things

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<v Speaker 1>that we should be looking at for and the type

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<v Speaker 1>of stuff that we should be kind of pushing against

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to, you know, potentially living in our theocracy,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe question mark.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that, like as you know, not to be

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<v Speaker 4>a dead horse. But like we've said, making a law,

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<v Speaker 4>saying something is true doesn't make it so. However, it

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<v Speaker 4>does make it punishable to say that it is not so,

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<v Speaker 4>so it does make it punishable to say no, gender

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<v Speaker 4>is not binary, and also gender is not the same

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<v Speaker 4>as sex, and that's also not binary. It does make

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<v Speaker 4>it punishable to in some contexts to say otherwise. So

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<v Speaker 4>I think whether it is for smoke and mirrors, whether

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<v Speaker 4>it is performative, or it is for like true effect

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<v Speaker 4>that they think they want to achieve, I think we

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<v Speaker 4>should be loud. I think we should you know, not

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<v Speaker 4>just count on it to get struck down in the

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<v Speaker 4>Supreme Court. Because even if I'm not sure that I

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<v Speaker 4>have that I know enough to either agree or disagree

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<v Speaker 4>with Kelly, So I'll just have to kind of defer

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<v Speaker 4>to you. But I think if I did hold the

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<v Speaker 4>opinion that it's very likely to get struck down in

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<v Speaker 4>the Supreme Court, I would still recommend being loud, because,

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<v Speaker 4>like I mentioned earlier in the week, our silence can

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<v Speaker 4>be used as a weapon against us. But also it's

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<v Speaker 4>important to not allow the perception that things like this

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<v Speaker 4>are acceptable, that advocating for laws and policies like this

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<v Speaker 4>could have the potential to come into effect. Like, we

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<v Speaker 4>shouldn't allow that perception at all.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, I was going to say that it's important to

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<v Speaker 3>stand up so that people ten years from now aren't

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<v Speaker 3>having the same fucking conversation we're having right now today.

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<v Speaker 4>And asking us where the hell were you guys?

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<v Speaker 3>Right exactly exactly, So, if.

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<v Speaker 1>You do not want to be evil and semi and

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<v Speaker 1>do nothing and learn how you can help out and

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<v Speaker 1>also get more information, please do the thing where you

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<v Speaker 1>subscribe to nonprofits, click on a video, learn more about

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<v Speaker 1>down there or on the sides or whatever. Also as

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<v Speaker 1>well like and subscribe and leave comments. We love all

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<v Speaker 1>that stuff and we will see you all next time. Goodbye, everybody,