Speaker 1: What is a pelasiko as I'm Dan Valley coming at
you with a quick addendum before we get to this
podcast for MORET and I deliver the biggest question for
we have for all the teams in the Northwest Division.
We recorded this before nas Reed agreed to his five year,
one hundred and twenty five million dollars deal with the
Minnesota Timberwolves. They'll be declining his player option as part
of that. Obviously, it doesn't really change anything we talk about.
We did get into will they keep him? Randall and Gnaw,
I think this probably means that Nikki Alexander Walker is
most likely gone. It could also mean that the Timberwolves
do seem more willing to go into the second Apron,
depending on how much it costs to retain Julius Randall,
who has that player option. But again, it doesn't change
the tenor of our discussion at all. So I wanted
to update you on that and just very quickly, if
you haven't already, join our discord and help us out
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It does a lot. Shout us out on the socials,
it does a ton. That's enough out though, Let's get
to our biggest question for each team in the Northwest Division?
What is up? Fellowsikos, I am Dan Favali coming at
you with the one, the only, the certified fantabulous himself,
mister mort Jensen of the NBA podcast, fame, of OnlyFans celebrity,
most importantly, of Yahoo Sports fame, and of Forbes fame
as well. We are here to penultimate are We've gone
through every single team with our biggest question for each squad.
We each trade off questions. We have four divisions in
the books. We're going on to the Northwest Division. So
we're gonna talk Nuggets, Timberwolves, Blazers, Jazz and Thunder. Maybe
some ASSAYU Jerry talk at the end if anyone wants
to stick around. Rumor has it he's not with the
Raptors anymore. Go figure before we kind of belly flop
in more, how the heck are.
Speaker 2: You doing well?
Speaker 3: Uh? The draft is done, so that means that my
five am times are are dead and buried until the
start of next season, which I greatly appreciate.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's always exciting. It is as a reminder
throughout this process. So like more does a pretty good
job of like hitting the macro stuff, and then some
of mine after I see his questions, I try and
zero win on some just micro questions like more long
lines of extensions or specific players or specific team needs.
So we try to hit everything without further delay. Though,
let us begin we go in alphabetical order. That means,
what up Denver mort what's your question for these folks?
Speaker 3: So how do they make upgrades? Because I think we
can talk. We can say with absolute certainty that they
have a lot of players where their trade value is
at best mediocre. They have a lot of money on
the cap, so they can't just go out and spend, spend, spend.
That's just not a viable option. And of course another
thing that's not a viable option is trading Nikolaijokic because
you don't want to do that. So the question here
is how do they make upgrades? And I'm not I
probably should have worded that better into like substantial upgrades.
I'm not talking about like, hey, we get Bruce brown
back on some type of MLI deal. No, like another
All Star player, Like, how do you get a legit
secondary running mate to Nicola Jokic.
Speaker 1: I don't with their flexibility, I don't know how you
would go and say, let's get the second best player
on this team. I think that becomes super complicated. I
more so look at it. If you're as if you're
gonna make changes, it's kind of in the realm of Okay,
what can the mini mL get us this year? What
I am sort of cure and you could make trades
like that is despite what Josh Cronkey says, which that
whole press conference was bizarre and I watched like the
full snippet of where the quotes were coming out of
because he, you know, unprompted, brings up Nicole like trading
nicolea Jokic, which is he didn't need to do that.
I just this was the second This is the design
of the second apron. As it feels like owners Josh
included created this patsy like they're using the second apron
as cover for why things could go wrong, why they
can't spend, why they can't make trades. This is what
they wanted. They wanted excuses not to spend. More so,
that they could blame it on the second Apron to
the fans, and it's no, you push for this, And
I'm not saying they need to dive into the second apron.
It's super restrictive, but that doesn't mean you can't make trades.
It doesn't mean you can't search for upgrades. So I'm
just sort of like that whole press conference was cringey
because I'm not here for owners complaining or lamenting the
limitations of the second Apron when they are the ones
who quite literally pushed for it.
Speaker 2: Agreed, what type of.
Speaker 1: Upgrade are you looking for them to make? So like
what if you had if you have your your running
the nuggets and we're trying to keep it somewhat plausible,
like what is you mentioned a number two? Like are
you like, like what type of what archetype? Or are
you like trying to get rid of Jamalm Ror? Like
are you upgrading from Jamal Murray? What are you doing here?
Speaker 2: I want to keep them all around.
Speaker 3: I do, because I do think the pick and roll
between him and Yokich is a viable weapon, especially in
the playoffs, but I would like someone else who can
also create their own shot. I think you need one
more dynamic score. And that's also part of the Jamal
Murray question, because you know, he was a guy who
I think you could have sort of penciled in between
twenty twenty five points every single night. Now he swings
more than we thought he would in production, Like, he's
not as consistent as he used to be. So I
think you need someone who you can just kind of
lock in as a permanent secondary church here scorer. However
you want to frame it. Now, the guy I want
I have a name here, and it will require Michael
Porter Junior going out, and I think you won't be
surprised the guy I want here is Seclavin.
Speaker 1: Now I was actually surprised that wasn't Kobe White.
Speaker 3: No, see, Kobe White would be a very fun player
to talk about because it's easier to trade for him
with the twelve point eight million dollar cap hit. I
think it is that he has compared to Levine, who's
at forty plus. But if we tried to look at
it through the prison also of age and whatnot, Levine
would just be such a he would be such a
basketball sic co addition for the Nuggets, you know what
I mean? Like this dude, works so hard. I think
he's got a bad rep because people are so locked
in on, oh, the bad defense, which frankly isn't that
bad anymore. The whole Oh, he's like he didn't win
in Chicago, No, no shit, he was over taxed in
Chicago throughout his entire tenure there. That obviously doesn't work.
He's never been paired with like an elite playmaker, unless
we want to count the thirty five games of Lonso
ball in two thousand and twenty one alongside Nikola jokicch
who obviously is the number one option with a freaking bullet. Levine,
who spent three years be one of the best off
ball scores in the league, would just and if it's
so so greatly from having this post presence, who can
just pass in a variety of ways, both near the
rim on the move from outside the line like Jokic
can make every pass in the book. The great thing
about it is Levin can catch them. He's a guy
who can get into the transition. He can pop and
have court situations. You know, he can finish plays above
the rim. It's catching shoot like everything under the sun.
Offensively speaking, scoring wise, at least he's got very very
few weaknesses, and alongside Jokic, I would not be surprised
if you just leveled lavinab and not just well, so
that's the guy who I really like. But I don't
hate your Kobe White name whatsoever. It's a far more
realistic and feasible option contractually speaking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because with Kobe White, you in theory don't have
to give up Michael Porter Junior. It's you're using the
nause and Sharage deals and then you're including all right,
it's one of the young players going outers there. You
could trade one first round pick this year in twenty
thirty one or twenty thirty two. They also have their
twenty thirty two second which I assume will be used
to wipe Dario Sharich's salary off the books anyway, if
past trends are any indication. But I just do you
think that zach Lavine ends up being enough of a
like so you're gonna get off Nausey end or Sharich
in the process of that, But like, are you including
a first round pick or a Peyton Watson to get
Zach Levie? Do you view him as enough of an
upgrade for what the Nuggets need over Michael Porter Junior,
because I do think you're what you said, you're onto
something in the sense that I did come away from
that Oklahoma City series specifically or just their playoff run
in general, thinking Okay, if Aaron Gordon is healthy, like
this team can punch above its weight on defense, and
I found myself not concerned, but okay, they could use
more dynamic optionality on uh that's I think using the
same word twice. Basically, they could use just a more
dynamic option on offense. And that certainly levin when you
look at the off the dribble stuff specifically, But what
you do you think he's enough of, like of what
they need of that upgrade from MPGA to where you're now,
and like you're attaching things on top of him in
part because one we don't know how other teams feel
about the MPGA contract, but two you're probably you have
to include money that you know other teams don't want
to make the math work right.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, first and fore most, you be
training with the Kings, and the Kings are have proven
to be an odd organization that occasionally takes packages in
return that are under the perceived value of the player
that going out, So I think you need to bake
that in. But in terms of like what you need
to add, I'm not saying you should add an unpreticted
first t example like that. I think that would be egregious,
Like this isn't Joe Dumars. So would the Kings.
Speaker 1: Even accept that? Though they might say no, there are.
Speaker 3: There are a couple teams that apparently set notes that
which is even which is even worse somehow much much.
Speaker 1: Worse, Which is why you know the Bulls would turn
down any Kobe White offer from the Nuggets that's built
around like like Peyton Watson in a first let's say
if that's the cost, and they.
Speaker 3: Are right, because the Bulls actually prefer to just loose
him into twenty twenty six free agency. Smart play, great Bulls,
great job. No, but but I it's the compensation level
is an interesting discussion because is Peyton Watson? Is it
a protected first round pick? That might just be that
that might be lottery protected for a year or maybe
two years, and then.
Speaker 1: That can only be at well, yeah, I guess so
they could do twenty one and twenty thirty two a
lot of protection before it just expires.
Speaker 3: Right like or conveys or trade morse into like two
seconds or whatever like you can you can sort of
finagle that and you can hackle it out. I don't
I don't think you should give up the farm to
just get Levine in there. Obviously, like Michael Porter Junior
would be the main piece going out in might it
might have to be a three team trade as well,
because with the Kings, look at Michael Porter Junior and go, oh, yeah,
he's a great with with Keithan Murray, now we have
two of them, I don't know. I don't know if
they like that dynamic, So maybe you have to look elsewhere.
But Levine is definitely the guy who I think you're
asking me if he moves the needle enough. I do
think he does. I think the league at large has
been way too low on sac Lavine. I think fans
at large has been way too low. I love him.
I think he is severely underrated, especially as an offensive performer.
I think people are like talking about how he's just
a chucker, which, like his efficiency has been proving that
wrong for like what five six seasons now, Like he's
super efficient, and yet for some reason people have just
kind of labeled him. You know, you're not important, You're
just a chucker. I overwhelmingly disagree with that notion.
Speaker 1: I'm with you on your sentiment of zach Lavine. I
guess I get concerned with you're giving up Porter and
then let's say two non rotation players as part of
the package if there's a pick on it, like so
you're not necessarily hollowing out your rotation. At the same time,
just the money with zach Lavine, like to invest that
in a singular player where he's more expensive than Porter Junior.
That gets dicey, which is why you know, I would
prefer the Kobe White route, but I don't actually know
if they have enough to get Kobe White. I might
even prefer, you know, like an Io de Souon Mu
Lonzo Ball combo, just to stick with the bullet probably
not getting you enough individual dynamism offensively, but like those
two do things that could help you on both defense
and offense. Uh, there's also been I don't know how
I feel about this, like sort of floating around like, oh,
let's go from Michael Porter Junior to Cam Johnson's salary
because he's cheaper. So you're just saving a bunch of money.
I don't think you gain anything offensively from that, but
you probably gain a little bit defensively, and then there's
more flexibility. But I'm not you know, you're giving up
your one first round pick plus Michael Porter Junior to
get Cam Johnson and that's a I guess it's a discussion,
but that feels more of like a cost savings move
without actually upgrading your roster, if that makes any.
Speaker 3: Sense, right, because I do think we need some we
I don't know why I said we the Nuggets need
a shot creator as well. Is Cam Johnson a you know,
quote unquote shot creator? Is he someone you can ask
when you really need to go get us a bucket?
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 1: I mean the the answer is no, that's just not
his game. Like I just think that he for the Nuggets,
it would be you know, Ken, you know you're looking
at Brooklyn's rosters. They're like anybody else that tickles your fan.
I mean probably not first all, they're all rookies. Five
of them are first round picks at this point. So
maybe it's a scenario where like, are you like, I
think what would be more ideal for the Nuggets if
they're trading any of their higher priced guys is can
you turn them into two guys who deepen and extend
your rotation? Is probably what I'd be looking at. Again.
Lavigne scenario specifically is intriguing to me. And if you
could find a way to consolidate just your bad contracts,
attach enough to nausey and charge and then you bring
back a Kobe White or you know, I don't know
who else would fall into that salary range, that gets interesting.
You're like, yeah, then we could have like a discussion.
I just the the Levigne one just gives me pause
because it feels like it makes them you're playing your
last trade chips essentially, and then it makes them less
flexible moving forward.
Speaker 2: And I agree with that.
Speaker 3: I looked at this through the prism of the Nuggets
also needed to get their three point in stems up
as well. Like one thing is the offensive dynamics that
needs another like wheel turner, but the fact that they're
also such a reluctant three point shot or a three
point shooting team, that's where Levine just changes that, like
he's got that quick trigger that I think would be
extremely interesting. But again like Kobe White too. I don't
hate that option. Is there's someone who isn't a former
bole we could look.
Speaker 1: At well, it's actually so this one's kind of out
there and shout out to Danny Mountain saying if Vivic
turns Fox into MPJ or whatever it turns out to be,
that would be hilarious. Oh, Phil Brown called Joe Dumars
about Trey Murphy for MPJ. I mean, Pelicans might do
anything at this point if you put a pick and
maybe Peyton Watson on the table and like, I don't know,
maybe the Pelicans better not do it.
Speaker 3: Did you put a pick on the table? Like only
if he's from the Pelicans signed? Apparently?
Speaker 1: What about this is not it'd be a risk, but like,
could there be some sort of construction where it's Michael
Porter junior and maybe you don't even and then one
of the you know, let's say Zeke Najy or Dario
Sharz since he's expiring, can you be the team that
has Jalen Green and then you're getting like a Royce
O'Neill as well. Does that do anything for you? Or
is Jalen Green too much of a risk? His deal
is technically longer, but he's younger and probably higher upside
still than Michael Porter Junior.
Speaker 2: For sure, he is a risk.
Speaker 3: That said, you know, he's playing next to Nicola Jokic,
who makes virtually everyone better. But then I pause myself
because I remember Green played significantly better when he did
not play with Albert and Shangun. Would that be an
issue going from shing Gun to Jokic? Is he a
guy who just needs to clear everyone out and can't
play with the Nicola yokicch could you, by the way,
would that be like cause to just like immediately to
retire if you get worse by playing with Niccolea Jokic,
does that just automatically qualify you for retirement?
Speaker 2: Like, okay, you're on the league.
Speaker 1: I can't see like I just can't see anyone being
maybe another big like you know, the Nurkic stuff. Like okay,
maybe you wouldn't be able to play alongside Yokic. But
if you can't play alongside Yokich, there's a lot more questions.
You could do something else with Phoenix maybe, like what
if it was Brooks and Grace and Allen and then
a similar structure like having Grace and Allen and Dylan
brook Like, you've extended your rotation. I don't think you've
gotten any more dynamic offensively, You're probably actually you're you're
juici or defensively with Dylan Brooks on the roster. Yeah,
and Dylan Brooks thinks that he's dynamic offensive and on it.
Speaker 3: Dylan Brooks in Denver. Yet that's not great. And then
Grayson Allen does literally nothing for me at all. It's
tough right there. There doesn't seem to be like that
one guy. Well, I know, I do think Seclovine is
that guy. But you're absolutely right in pointing out the
contractual element there. It stops it for being that guy
because he it is. Is it even feasible to get
him in without relinquishing too much?
Speaker 1: Do you like? What about a lower end like a
Jordan Clarkson or a Colin Sexton, where either of those do?
Speaker 2: Okay? I would like Sexton more than Jordan Clarkson.
Speaker 1: What about I don't know if he has enough juice
left in the tank. But like a Chris Middleton from Washington.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's that's why you're seizing him like that. I
can quit Chris Middleton. He can be in the four
for twenty minutes a game. That's not nice. Be nice
to Chris Middleton. He's a goody.
Speaker 1: That's perfect for him. Then that's like, that's basically we
want to get off of what.
Speaker 2: They need depth as well.
Speaker 1: Well, they're not consolidating. Doesn't Chris Middleton make less than
MPJ this year? They're actually saving money. So yeah, well,
well let's get into mind because we have a question.
We don't have a question, but don't tell Santa Cruz.
Jokic should turn down the extension and go to free agency.
I actually think so he's eligible for an extension that's
three years, two hundred and twelve point five million dollars.
I do see people in the chat saying that Josh
Kronky basically already alluded to that they're not making trades.
We saw the Josh Cronky comments, We talked about them.
I actually think what Nicole Yokic should do is not
sign the extension. You can say that it's because, oh,
if he just waits a year, he can sign a
four year tension guarantee himself like eighty plus more million dollars.
As he's going into his thirties, Okay, great. I look
at it as the Nuggets shouldn't need this reality check,
but they clearly do. Of his goodwill can't be assumed
anymore like that, if I'm yo, kids, that's what You've
been the lowest maintenance superstar in the league. Yeah, for
basically a decade. At this point, Steph is probably the
only one who comes close to rivaling you. There. You
need to show a sign like, oh right, this doesn't
need to be I want out. It's not a trade demand,
but it's no. You keep making the roster better otherwise,
like you will risk losing me, be it for a
trade demand or down the line, or if they actually
let him reach free agency. Because he's the type of
guy like similar to Giannis, similar to what happened with
KD and OKC or has happened to Lebron. They're good
enough to where you even if you're not sure if
they're gonna stay. If they don't ask for out, you
almost have to keep them. You can be proactive and
move them. But like he is so generational that unless
he asks hero out, I don't know how you justify
moving him. So I'm not signing the extension more if
that money's always gonna be there, and if it doesn't
put pressure on the organization to improve, then, as Nikola jokis,
that's all the information that I need about my future
in Denver. And so I don't think he should sign
the extension. Given the way that players tend to just
sign extensions. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if he signed it,
and he's very drama free. However, I think that if
you want this Nuggets regime to act, to do anything
to continue optimizing your time there, it's not Look, the
Nuggets are a good team. They took the Thunder to
seven games. The Thunder aren't gonna get any easier to
get past, though, so you need to continue getting better,
and I think not signing the extension kind of sends
the message. Yeah, he might still stay, but it's not guaranteed,
and that's the first time they'd have to reckon with
anything like that.
Speaker 2: I have a big ask question for you, is this.
Speaker 1: Gonna be about playing with Luga on the Lakers or something?
Speaker 3: I knew it it is about Luca. Yeah, absolutely it is.
And you know me too well. This this is gonna
take guts. Would you be willing to trade Jamal and
Michael Porter Jr. Exclusively for expiring contracts and potentially draft
compensation if you can get it. So you're going too
twenty twenty six with the chance of just sound signing
him outright in free agency.
Speaker 1: If he doesn't sign an extension with the Lakers this summer.
Speaker 3: I should clarify. I forgot something. I should clarify. These
trades shouldn't be now. They would be deadline trades, so
you're closer to knowing where his mindset is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think you would have to just
the uh, like just the prospect of it. But I
don't know that's a really mega risk there, and like
it don't see.
Speaker 2: Like imagine it.
Speaker 3: It's you probably have the best card in the league
to actually go get him.
Speaker 2: It's NICOLEA.
Speaker 3: Yokic's best buddy in the league outside of the leagu
Phini Smith.
Speaker 1: I think at that point it's it's not a question
of would you, it's just if you're doing that, it's
because NIKOLEA. Jokic has told you that Luka Doncic is coming. Yeah,
And also I don't know if they could even structure that,
like is having Aaron Gordon and Jokic on the books.
They're even gonna have the money to sign a Luka
Doncic max contract.
Speaker 2: Still, well, let's let's see, right, it would be no.
Ninety million.
Speaker 1: Honestly, if I had to guess, I'm not rooting for this.
It feels like Nikola Jokic would be more likely to
wind up on the Lakers than Luka Doncic is to
end up on the Nuggets, like by a trade or
a tree agency. He could do the same thing and leave.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, but that's in two years, Okay, No, no, No,
I'm just saying, like in the mediate like if.
Speaker 1: You know Luka is coming otherwise, I don't know. How
do you spin that to Jokic If you don't end
up with Luca, like that just becomes a massacre of
talent shedding.
Speaker 3: Could you imagine asking lou or sorry, Nicola to like tamper, Hey,
could you give Luca a call? He's just gonna look
at you like you're stupid. Uh.
Speaker 1: But yeah, So if you were Jokic, would you what
do you think about that sentiment of not signing the
extension because you know it'll always agree. Therefore you just
to con I.
Speaker 3: Think you're right, this team needs a wake up call.
It absolutely does, and you're right, they shouldn't. It's the
best player in basketball. That should be motivation enough for
you to start sinking outside the box. It shouldn't just
be you know the bottom line. Absolutely no. I mean,
if I'm Nicola Jokic, I'm asking some pretty big questions.
I'm I'm having the demons of Bonus sit down meeting
with the team, going, Guys, what the fuck's the plan?
I'm having that meeting. I'm having two of them, three
of them.
Speaker 1: I will say he came as like close to and
he basically said that they need to get deeper in
his like exit press conference or maybe it was immediately
after the game seven lost to Okay. See for him
to even say that, just knowing like he doesn't make
those types of statements, I mean, that was a mic
drop and it still just didn't resonate. Like I know,
the Nuggets' tools are limited and we haven't actually gone
through the off season yet, but the messaging they're putting
out there is just like, it's this. If you're a
Nuggets fan, it's pretty discouraging. Yes, we can move on,
I think to the Minnesota Timberwolves more. What's your question
for them.
Speaker 3: Right, So, what is the backup plan in case everything
just goes Hey?
Speaker 2: Why are here?
Speaker 3: Julius Randall says bye bye, and Nasrit does the same. Again,
I don't think they will. It's very very important for
me to to preface that I don't think they will.
But do they have a backup plan in place? Was
the draft deep backup plan? Just getting the big men
in there and then just saying all right, if we
lose those two, we have two very untested guys who
can come in and take those minutes. I just want
to know, like, do they have something in their back
pocket if something goes awry?
Speaker 1: That's a good question that I don't know the answer to,
and it's I mean, the other question you could ask
is because they were so heavily linked to the KD
sweepstakes until it was clear that he really only wanted
to play for Houston or San Antonio felt like in
the end, like, are you still trying to pull off
a bigger move like that? I guess there's no one
available that would sort of fit that ILK, But yeah,
I mean you have Kilexander Walker's a free agent. Nasried
and Julius Randall of player options, and this we can
get into my question too, because it's similar. Is there
any scenario more in which all three are back? And
we did the math on the Timberwolves look ahead, they
essentially need those three to make a combined like fifty
five to sixty million next year if they want to
stay under the second apron and have because they if
they want, they can keep all three of them. I
just don't think they're gonna be will to go back
right into the second apron. So I think the only
way that it's really possible is let's just assume that
a kil Alexander Walker gets fifteen. You need to hope
that nas Read opts in and you can extend him
off that number, so you're at thirty, and then it's okay,
like can Julius Randall either opt out and resign for
twenty five or thirty and like, we're just at that
number and figure it out. So I would think it's
it's possible. I just sixty million dollars, let's say, let's
let's round up. Is that enough for those three players?
I think in a vacuum probably not.
Speaker 3: No, how do you even ask that question with a
straight face? Of course, it's not.
Speaker 1: Well, I just gave you the math. I think it
all hinges on if you can get nas read to
opt in and extend him off that number, Why was
it not?
Speaker 2: It's a it's a one hund andy off of that number?
Speaker 1: What do you think he's going? It's not a lot.
But so like it's ends up being what basically twenty
million dollars a year to start, So he gets a
four year extension off.
Speaker 3: That he's about to enter his prime, right and he's
really really good. There are teams out there, I have
to assume to a great extent that are very interested
in having him as a starter. Even he's probably aware
of that. His agents are probably aware of that, Like
his entire background team is probably aware of that. Like
I'm what, I'm what I'm really asking here, Dan, what's
the carrot here? What is a carrot that makes him
chase this?
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is and this is just a
ballparking it a four opting in and then it's a
four year ninety four point one million dollar extension and
so it's effectively a five year, one hundred and six
million dollar deal. You believe that that's too far? Afield
from his market, So.
Speaker 3: I think that would be a pretty decent deal for
the Wolves. I wonder if nas Reed looks at that
and goes, I'm worth more because I know that I
have starting money offers elsewhere if it came to that, Like,
I'm not saying it would be bad value, like in
a vacuum, because again, like how many minutes is really
gonna play on that roster when Rudy Colbert is still there?
Speaker 2: Ramble presumably is still.
Speaker 3: There, but perhaps that's another thing, like, like, I know
nas has this great relationship with Minnesota and the fans,
and look, I love that, and if that continues, more
power to it, that's great. Is he willing to sacrifice
the bottom line to maintain all that? If he is,
that's awesome. Honestly, if he's like, yeah, I'll take that deal,
I'll sign and stay, Like because ninety million is still
ninety million, I would love that.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: So I didn't even mean interact it. I'm wondering, just like,
what is the team because we know that there's only
one team that has the cap space to pay him
right that much, But what is the team that would
like so they would engage in a sign and trade
to give him the deal.
Speaker 3: No, sorry, I think I would be looking at next year.
You were talking about an extension, So if you.
Speaker 1: Were him, you might opt in or maybe sign a
one plus one just worth more and to go into
free agency next year.
Speaker 3: Perhaps, yes, like opt in and then just looking next year.
It's beyond this season. I'm looking for Nosrit specifically, Like
I do think there's a fair chance that he might
opt in just for this year.
Speaker 2: It's the extension party question.
Speaker 1: I just don't know why. Man if he ops in
just to explore free agency, that would be wild, but
it would speak to what the market is that the
Nets don't have interest. He's only getting mid level money
from somebody else unless it is a sign and trade.
I do wonder. As Danny Manton says in the chat,
Wendy hinted that naw would be the only one to leave.
That doesn't make sense just because they have no like
sort of team control over him. Also, Fisher mentioned that
the Hawks, who are having a terrific offseason so far,
hat timp to the Pelicans for that. They mentioned them
as a sign and trade partner for Minnesota. They have
that huge Desonte Murray trade exception, it's like twenty five
point three million, so they could pay not like NAW
could get more than the mid level, and the Hawks
have like depending on game, they're like twenty million under
the tax, so they could go into the tax, but
we know they won't, so they would pay NAS. So
I would agree that he feels like the most likely
one to leave.
Speaker 2: I wonder you have money, then you have enough money
to keep the two of them.
Speaker 1: You have to keep Randall and Nas, but it just
feels like you've still lost I think. And the thing
with Alexander Walker is in theory, between Jal and Clark
and between and also with Tarren Shannon Junior, you probably
have the ability to place in theory more of what
Nikail Alexander Walker does than if you lose Julius Randall
or Nas reed I do. But like, if you have
Randall and go Bear, do you think, like could it
make sense if they Let's just say, like what if
Brooklyn was interested in Nas? Is there a sign in
trade that gets you Cam Johnson and then maybe you're
signing a big off the bargain bin to kind of
back up Rudy Gobert or trying out uh, Leonard Miller
a little bit more next year, or maybe even just
you know, trying Julius at the five a little bit.
If you think you have the perimeter defenders for it,
who do you view I guess my question would be
who do you view as like the most mission critical
of these three to Minnesota?
Speaker 3: Probably Randall based on how he played this year and
how he broke his playoff curse a little bit. We
needed to see that from him because if he had
just if he had crapped the bed again in the playoffs,
he wouldn't even be on my radar as someone who
was interesting to retain.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I would just to spend the money on Nas and.
Speaker 3: Nikoil, alexand Walker, and I just kind of would have
made Randall a bit of an afterthought, like, yeah, you
can stick around, but it's going to be on our terms.
Speaker 2: Randall, I think, really silenced.
Speaker 3: A lot of critics, myself included, because I was a
heavy skeptic.
Speaker 2: You know this not just with his play in the playoffs,
but over.
Speaker 3: The course of the record season he displayed on several
occasions the ability to scale back, which he didn't really
show in New York all that well. But he kind
of let be and he made sure that Jade McDaniels
when he started becoming more aggressive at the as the
year went on, he would like, Okay, let's empower that.
Let's make sure we get you the ball. Came a
much more willing passer like sought out Jayden at fair Bunch.
So like, I think he's become so important to their DNA,
which is not something I thought I'd be sitting here
to say, like twelve months ago. I never thought i'd
say this. So if you're asking me guns, in my head,
who would I who would I like have to pick
among the three? It's gotta be Randal. And I say
that as someone who loves Nasreez, I.
Speaker 1: Think you're right. I think the key Alexander Roker is
clearly the least valuable of the three, especially because like
he shot the ball well this year, but that could
be shaky. And also I think, you know, when the
Kevin Durant boogeyman was still sort of floating around out there,
you have the idea of, oh, we could get like
an upgrade as a second option off of Julius Randall.
Now it's just like I don't know what player would
be feasibly available that you could consider an upgrade from
that spot. That then the Timberwolves also have the assets
necessary go get him, Like they don't. They can't offer
the Desmond Bane special. They don't have those assets at
They're like, okay, Devincenzo and Dillingham and salary that can
get semi interesting, but like that gets you in the
conver Like does that get you in the Levigne conversation?
Like you could do something like that if you're the Kings.
I don't know why they would want Julius Randall though,
So then it's what is the matching salary to make
that work. They should not be a Jail and Green team,
that's for sure. They shouldn't be a Bradley Beal team.
There's just no names that kind of really stand out
to me, And so it feels like you have to
bring Breck Julius Randall, like he has to be your
top priority.
Speaker 2: At what point you think the Wolves sit down, look them,
look at each other in the eyes, and go, we
need to be younger and get younger for the sake
of And.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't I don't think they're trending
in that direction. Just based off their interest in KD.
If anything kind of like implies the opposite that they
it feels like to me they're they're more likely to
go make another consolidation trader, take a bigger swing and
maybe deplete their assets even further than they are to say, hey,
we're gonna trade Rudy Gobert, because I think that would
be sort of the harbinger of oh, they're trying to
get youngers. If Rudy Gobert was probably on the table
when Kevin Durant trade talks, what's the player that would
make sense to do that again? And I think it
could have even been if you're bringing back Nasried that
still would have been a debate as to how good
can your defense be without Julius Randall. So and again,
that name just doesn't pop off the page to me.
And so I think this team, I believe will largely
look the same, but it also just it doesn't feel
like it's enough just yet. Like the offense specifically can
still be quite sloggy, especially when you get to the postseason.
Speaker 3: I'm just not a fan of that approach where oh, yeah,
we'll deplete our assets like a year after year to
optimize our product when that product clearly is still lacking,
like another foundational piece.
Speaker 1: But you just kind of said the opposite about the
Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 2: Though that's Nicola Jokic.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that you don't believe Anthony Edwards can
be the best player on a title team, then.
Speaker 3: I'm saying he will need more help than what Nicola
Jokic will need, because I think the disparity between them
is pretty significant. I'm not saying it can't be the
best player on a title team. I'm saying he's gonna
need more help.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. But the Timberwolves, in theory, just
between Dillingham and Devincenzo and even go Beer like they
have trade assets like at least in terms of player
equity that the Nuggets do not. I don't think any teams. Look,
I guess that the Nuggets are willing to include Christian Brown,
which it doesn't seem like they would be, But like
Peyton Watson's probably gonna be pretty may viewed outside of Denver.
The Jamal Murray contract is gonna scare teams away from him.
That Aaron Gordon just always being banged up and maybe
his contract that's gonna scare a few teams off. So
I think that the Wolves, like I, it's totally fair
to say that Nicol Joki is way better than Anthony Edwards.
I don't have an argument against that. I just think
I just think that it feels counterintuitive to say the Nuggets,
who are asset strapped need to continue going all in
and just it's I know Edwards is younger, so I
guess that would be the crux of your point, that
it makes more sense to go into this sort of
rebuilding process. But you just made consecutive Winster Conference Finals appearances.
It feels weird to not try and push the bill
when you are. It feels like, yeah, they're flawed, but
they've still gotten pretty close in each of the past
two years.
Speaker 3: You just said the right word the bill, because the
bill will come due eventually. Like if you then keep
going older and older and older, suddenly those older players
their trade value will appreciate that We'll just they will
go away, and eventually you could risk finding yourself in
like a buck situation where you have very few picks
at your disposal, you have very few tradeable assets, where
most of your core around your main guy has sort
of aged out a bit. You don't want to do
that because then Anthony Edwards is gonna look at that situation,
you know, at some point and go, is this the
best option for me? Is this where I want to be?
Is this like does this make sense for me to
to continue that relationship, to continue that working environment. It's
I understand your point though, Like I understand because they're
so close quote unquote, like pushing the you know, pushing
the speeder right now makes sense. I don't mind doing
it for a year or two. But like if we go,
Bear is still on the roster at forty five, and
let's just be honest about this, he didn't exactly look
great this year. I thought we saw a noticeable, not decline,
that's a harsh word, but I thought we saw we
saw him regress a little bit. And if that pattern
is to continue, that's not great in two years. Like
Julius Randall thirty one as well, like that, he's not
going to get younger. There are a lot of these
players who are on the older side who I think
you can be realistic about and say they're going to
get much worse over the next year or two. Eventually
you're gonna have to look at that rosterom You're gonna
ask yourself, what kind of foundation have we actually built
with Anthony Edwards? Or is he our entire entire foundation?
Because if so, that's not always a good thing.
Speaker 1: I think the issue, though, is what's the point of
going or even entertaining the route that you're throwing out
there when you don't have control over your own first
round pick until like twenty and thirty.
Speaker 3: That's fair, That is very fair. You're right, and that
might be why they're or not might that is clearly
why they're going about this the way that they are.
I just don't think it's a feasible long term plan
down the line, Like do I mind if they go
chase it chase the title this coming season? No, because
they don't really have a whole lot of options right now.
But I do think eventually you're gonna look at that roster,
it's gonna get significantly worse. It's only Edwards that's really
on the upwards trajectory, depending on what happens with Rob Dillingham.
We haven't seen enough of Rob to like really make
an educated opinion on him. If he comes out just hooping,
like next season. I'm so much more relaxed about this team.
If he's like, you know, and high.
Speaker 1: End and Shannon is able to play real minutes throughout
the season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if he becomes like fully plashed rotational piece and
Dillingham becomes a high ended starter, I'm gonna exhale.
Speaker 1: I sort of wonder if they need to like trial
by fire, Rob Dillingham and it's can you trade It
have to be another team involved, like trade Mike Conley
to Boston for Sam Hauser or something. This is Boston's
looking to save money in Sam Hauser and come in
and fill that shooting role. And now it's okay. Rob
Dillinghead needs to be like the second quarterback or the
third quarterback with Julius Randall as the offense. That's that's
super risky, but I think that that sort of the
came and it's probably why to put a bow on
the Timberwolves. The smartest course of action is if you're
not gonna pay the second apron, keep as many of
the guys as you can of those three, like they're
all important, and we have our rankings. It's Randall, it's
Nas and then it's Gnaw and then like you kind
of sit on everything else until the trade deadline. You
see where you're at, Maybe someone shakes loose that makes
sense to go after and you can use Nas or
Randall or some of your other salaries. There's Stevencenzo and
Dialingham still or maybe Dillingham pops, And it's just okay,
Like that's the kind of like the break that they need,
because look, Kevin Durant would have been interesting even if
you had to give up Rudy Gobert. I just don't
know what other name one could shake loose and then
two all right, the Minnesota Timberwolves are within the realm
of assets to where even if they don't have the
best offer, like, it's competitive enough for a team to
accept it. Right our next team, yeah, more. The thing
with this team is they have so many needs. One
of the worst teams in the league. I just don't
know when are they gonna be done rebuilding? And imagine
how many championships they might win if they can win
a championshipilding, Imagine how many they can win when they stop.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, we can sit here and complement
them up the wazoo, But fact is, they still have needs.
We talked about this like it's so important for them
to get into the season or sorry, this summer and
not rest on their laurels, like they have to be active.
We identified over the course of the playoffs at least
that Nadina a little bit more offensive. Juice, I don't
remember you presented a stat to me where I think
their offensive ranking dropped by seven point two points per
one hundred processions in the playoffs compared to the regular seasons.
Something somewhere else half court, well, half court, that was
the half court. My apologies, right, but still that's that's
a substantial drop. And I do think they're at times
reluctance to take three pointers can be something. That's it's something.
It's an area they can optimize in a better way
than they are right now. So I do think they
need to go out and identify a floor spacer. Is
it the Duncan Robinson type, like who can only primarily
only do that? Does it need to be someone I'm
gonna bring it up again, Kobe White. You actually brought
him up for the first time on this one, But
like Kobe White, is he the type of guy you
need to bring into that Organizitsu? Who could play on
ball off ball. I don't know the name, but they
still need a shooter.
Speaker 1: So who the name is Trey Murphy for this team
would be just I think that's like the single best fit.
And I know he's not available in New Orleans but
the Thunder. But also even if he's not the Thunder,
have you know, create your own trade market assets, like
if they want somebody, they could just go trade for them. Yeah,
I mean the names that are gonna throw out there,
it's Cam Johnson. It has to be someone good, like
who's better than Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins in a
vacuum because you want them to have a chance at
least of closing games. Otherwise it's sort of what's the point.
It might help you eat some innings during the regular season,
which is important, but like their offense I think got
sloggiest in in the playoffs, so and I think it's
you know, I don't think like Sam Presty understands the
timeline they're on now. He's trying to keep this thing
going for as long as possible. They want to be dynastic,
if not an outright dynasty. But this isn't him two
years ago not, you know, kind of waiting and seeing
how good the thunder might be. He knows now they
just won the championship, and so I would expect them
to go get somebody. It's just the matter of the name.
And I think, like you said, the Kobe White, it's intriguing,
especially just the salary so easy. They could basically just
trade Uzman Jang for Kobe White plus picks, and so
it's you've given up zero rotation players. Nobody who's getting
a statue like a Kenridge Williams or a big Jaylen Williams.
That would just be insane. But you probably want someone
who's like six six or taller because that gives them
a better like you're not. I guess they could Mark
Degnelt's psycho.
Speaker 3: That's mean to Kobe six', Five Kobe, White it's just,
like how dear, you how dear one?
Speaker 2: INCH i got the inch on my? Hair what are
you doing to?
Speaker 1: ME i Guess i'll say this. Way you want someone
who could play like a wingspot more, consistently like scale,
up because what are the odds of like they're never
closing a. GAME i guess they would LIKE i Said
Mark Dagnel. Tsicico are they ever closing a game With Kobe,
White Alex, CARUSO J dubb And Shay Gilgess. ALEXANDER i
guess yes they. Could they probably they probably.
Speaker 3: Would BUT i hear you like because you Your Trey
murphy point is also great from a contractual, perspective like
you know what that contract is gonna. Be you don't
know What Kobe white's contract is gonna. Be SO i
think that's right your.
Speaker 1: Point of The Cam, Johnson he's featured on the YouTube
image that's the name that everybody throws, out and he
does like kind of make a bunch of sense there
because you know he Doesn't you, know With Kobe, white
you're gonna make sure you get him on ball touches
WHERE i think their offense could use an element of,
that but maybe not too much when you Have, Jay
dubb And shay and of course you want the games
of not Just Chet holmgren to. Expand but Like, nicolo
topic will probably be a rotation player next season for.
Them so that's Why Cam johnson's probably. Intriguing we went
through a bunch of names when we were talking about
them the other. Day is there anyone else that still
sort of just stands out to you as this would
be like an excellent. Fit Like Duncan robinson is, fine
but he's not. Cracking he's not even like in the
top seven of their playoff. ROTATION i don't think.
Speaker 3: You know what be a really sickle. Thing we're sitting
here talking About Kobe white Versus Trey. Murphy what If
Sam presty goes in and Says Trey.
Speaker 1: Murphy And white, chews, Yeah white, Chews white, chews then
you just, LIKE i, mean they could do that now
without having to give up like any core. Players but
that's not sustainable moving. Forward it might not be.
Speaker 3: Sustainable but, like if you could do, that like you probably.
STAND i don't even know.
Speaker 2: The, percentages So i'm not gonna say, that but like.
Speaker 3: That would be such an almost shoe in for the
championship next.
Speaker 2: Season it's.
Speaker 3: Insane like and then you basically, say, look even If
kobe leaves us in free, agency we might just win
a secondary title of his his help as.
Speaker 2: WELL i do.
Speaker 1: THAT i mean you probably have, to BUT i, mean,
like what's the cost of getting them. Both it's just
that would be. Insane that's like the weekend.
Speaker 3: You're negotiating against our Tourist Carnish shoulvis And Joe.
Speaker 2: Dumars it could not be.
Speaker 1: Better does do any of the free? Agents they're not gonna.
Speaker 2: Want to pick, back they want.
Speaker 1: Cash, SORRY i guess my whole thing is, like what
is the actual cost of because you mentioned there's the
what Is Kobe white's next contract look? Like so if
you're viewing as a, rental the cost needs to align
with that where it's like we, said Try murphy's under
contract for a. While these players aren't big. Enough but
do any of like the free agent, snipers those dead
eye shooters Like Gary Trent junior Or Malik beasley constitute
upgrades for them from you know The arab J Aaron wiggins.
Button you THINK i.
Speaker 3: Love beastly on this, TEAM i really. WOULD i think
that would be a, great great. Addition and if they
signed him outright and thus don't have to relinquish any like,
assets they maintained their draft pick, flexibility good, LORD i mean.
Speaker 1: That would be. Insane poked. Up bogdanovic kind of has the,
size but he's older't cost much to get. HIM i
don't know what salary you want to send out to
get him, Though.
Speaker 3: Just to wrap up on The Kobe white, thing are
we sure if he wins a title that he's not
gonna be willing like he just Spent.
Speaker 1: He hasn't gotten paid. Paid there's no way he's taking
like a.
Speaker 2: Discount that's, true and that's that's really.
Speaker 3: FAIR i, see my my thing IS i like he
would probably, SAY i JUST i just spent my entire
career with the bulls now winning a. Championship likes just
stick here because that's the best place for.
Speaker 2: Me, like MAYBE i don't, know Maybe.
Speaker 1: I've Would Sam hawser makes sense for this. Team try
to just run through some names.
Speaker 3: HERE i feel like house would makes some sort of
sense on every.
Speaker 1: Team but is he good enough to make sense that
this team is so good that you need to make
a lot of sense on this?
Speaker 3: Team, NO i, mean if you were, looking, that's as you,
said someone who can finish. Games, NO i, mean then
the forward floor spacing thread has to Be Trey.
Speaker 1: Murphy THE i will, say you did not like this
name last, time BUT i still Think Derek white could
fit the.
Speaker 3: Ball, NO i, SAID i you wouldn't. MIND i just
didn't find it that. CREATIVE i thought YOU i thought
you that.
Speaker 1: Creative if they were kind of looking to or maybe
you just get both of. Them let's Throw Kobe white
back in. Here if you were looking To, okay this
guy's not gonna play a, ton but when we need,
him we can push the. Button Lonzo ball on this
team would also be. Absurd maybe you get him And Kobe.
Speaker 3: WHITE i thought you just Say Grayson allen BEFORE i
was about ready to just smack you.
Speaker 1: Up. NO i mean LIKE i, would especially with the,
contract like why wouldn't you Prefer Isaiah joe Or Aaron
wagins at that point they need to Be and that's what's,
challenging because this team is already so good it feels
like they have a clear. Flaw but BECAUSE i think
that you don't want the player who fills it to
be too small, necessarily you're now finding like a very
specific archetype of, player one that everyone and yes you
can outbid everyone for, them but you're also trying to
fit them into your future salary structure as, well which
is where the challenge starts to kick.
Speaker 3: IN i, think, look just going back to this idea
of getting Both Trey murphy And Kobe, WHITE i.
Speaker 1: Just WOULDN'T i can SELL i get you latching Onto Kobe,
white but we have just Like Trey murphy's probably the
single most untouchable player In New, orleans and they just
traded their own draft, pick or they don't have a
draft pick next, year so they have no incentive to
give Up Trey murphy un lest they're unless they're just
batshit insane around those.
Speaker 2: Parts SO i don't think that can be ruled, Out.
Speaker 1: SIR i think the thing that we can rule out
IS i don't believe The thunder would give up what
it would take to get The pelicans to part with.
Him that would be very on thunder like to.
Speaker 3: Me look, again that depends on How Joe dumars Values Trey.
Murphy we have no, clue we have no.
Speaker 1: IDEA i just for some you're latching onto it is my,
point and that feels like sort of a like just
pure fiction for you to latch onto. THAT i know
this is all, theoretical but he of every name we've,
mentioned who is the least likely to be moved this? Offseason?
Speaker 3: SIR i thought you AND i agreed about a month
ago that there's nothing fiction is about or fictitious about
the thunder and their trade. Assets we agreed that they
can create a, market but everyone.
Speaker 1: They've never acted like it, Though like they're not just
gonna go To New orleans and, say, hey here's five
first round.
Speaker 2: PICKS i, mean, Look, sam they.
Speaker 1: Could i'm saying they.
Speaker 2: Won't, Okay i'm just.
Speaker 3: Saying Sam presty twelve months ago was like ho, hum
we're still just like. Building now they want to freaking,
Ship like maybe now is the time for him to, Say,
okay it's. Time who. Knows i'm Just i'm just THINKING i.
Speaker 1: Can get behind. IT i just you're you seem unwilling
to talk about anyone. Else now that's all the.
Speaker 2: Problem that's, Fair, okay you know, What, okay that is.
Speaker 3: Fair let's talk about someone, else because it does have
to be a, shooter right that to be someone we.
Speaker 1: Kind of just went through like the like that's the
thing an for Me simons for a year could get.
Interesting but again it's like as a rental and also,
small like we just said six to six or, taller like,
yeah you go to The Kobe white. Route at that,
Point Sam houser feels like the worst player that could
make where it's oh Like, yeah like maybe he would
play Over wiggins And Isaiah Joe, right doesn't he kind
of feel like the worst? Player you can name it
this because if, now if you pull The thunder, internally
they might say the worst player who fits that bill
Is Cam, johnson which is a testament to who The
thunder are right now in.
Speaker 3: Itself we also talked about another player as well in
regards to, them and we were we weren't super high on,
it But Jabari Smith, JUNIOR i just don't think The
rockets after THE kd trade are like super intensive ives
to go out and make drastic changes to their.
Speaker 2: Team do you think.
Speaker 1: He does enough of what they?
Speaker 3: Need we haven't seen the high volumes that that's a
really fair. Question, well here's.
Speaker 1: A, question BECAUSE i know you love this player and
we know he's. Available Per Kelly ico of The Athletic Cam,
whitmore would you, rather if you're The, thunder roll the
dice on What Cam whitmore could do or What Jabari
smith could?
Speaker 2: Do, no If Cam whitmore is WHICH i, do.
Speaker 1: First of, all if The rockets trade either one of
these guys to The, THUNDER i want someone fired, immediately.
Speaker 3: Right and ALSO i just don't understand why he'd be,
Available Kim, widmore especially now That Jalen green is. Gone
if he's, available, yeah like absolutely six, seven high, volume
super explosive only at what like three and a half
million for.
Speaker 2: The next year.
Speaker 1: Years it's only two years into his rookie, scale.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly so he's got another year after after.
Speaker 3: This he can play the off, guard he can play
the three like he's, big, physical. Strong, yeah, absolutely, absolutely
he would help.
Speaker 1: Them he just feels like more of a dice. Roll
and when you're this, level The thunder can afford to
have a dice, roll but you also kind of want a.
Certainty but you talk about fitting into their salary structure
like you're kicking the can two years down the. Road
and again that's a matter of you don't you don't
have the roster space to give up. Nobody but you
could do something Like Dylan jones For Cam, whitmore Like
Dylan jones on a pick For Cam, whitmore and it
would just, work so that that would be that would
be Very thunder esque to, me to where it's we
got someone who maybe checks the, box but maybe he,
doesn't but he's just so cheap that we're gonna try it. Anyway,
YEAH i.
Speaker 3: Don't care THOUGH i Won Kobe white and the trade
to that, Idea i'm never letting it, go And I'm
i'll be forever disappointed In Sam prest if he doesn't
pull it.
Speaker 1: Off generational hater Says Cam whitmore is not. AVAILABLE i just.
Disagree Cam whitmore's not. Untouchable just because they didn't send
him to The suns for a soon to be thirty
seven year old and an expiring contract does not mean he's.
Unavailable how's that for generational? Hating Uh, so my question,
Here Cheholm Gonna Jaylen williams are both extension. Eligible it's
the rookie, scale so it's the five year max would
run two hundred and forty six point. Seven there could
be escalation language to two hundred and ninety six million
if they one of them makes like they could put
the ALL nba special language in. There my question, is
AND i think this is a short, one like what
do their extensions look? Like do we just pencil In
let's start With Jay. DUBB i would kind of just
pencil him in for the five year you, know escalation
special where it's the. Max but it can be even.
Higher is Where i'd be at with. Him my question would,
be does he get a player? Option it seems like
we're seeing player options at the end of these deals
fewer and further. Between so let's start With jay Dub
what do you think that ends up looking like.
Speaker 2: Full? Max whatever you, want take, it here you.
Speaker 1: Go so the five year special with probably do you
think he'll get a player?
Speaker 3: Option, well why? Not if that's what he, wants just
all the bells and.
Speaker 1: Whistles my guess would be he's not gonna get it.
ONE i DON'T i don't know if he'll ask for,
one BUT i just don't think he's Gonna this team
is so, together i'd be kind of surprised if he
has as a player option at the end of that.
Speaker 3: Deal it's only a win for The thunder if he.
Doesn't so, Cool BUT i, mean, Look i'm Just i'm
not worried about.
Speaker 2: It If i'm The, thunder he's that.
Speaker 3: Good like if he wants to opt out a little
bit earlier to go seek a bigger, Gad i'll pay.
Speaker 1: It chet Ol grin a little bit? More sh are
you giving? Him we already talked about whether you thought
he was a no Brainer, max and you think that
they should maybe negotiate a little. Bit is that WORD
i use.
Speaker 2: Was Hackle AND i still do think.
Speaker 3: THAT i you, know one hundred and fourteen games in
his career in the regular season didn't exactly set the
world on fire in the. Playoffs is he a crucial
foundation piece for the for The?
Speaker 2: Thunder?
Speaker 3: Absolutely did he just come off a serious injury in
those fifty games missed this year and was there probably
something that still affected him during that playoff. RUN i
can't rule that. Out but If i'm The, THUNDER i
also just have to deal in the, facts and that
is that his production wasn't at a level THAT i.
Expected he hasn't been entirely available over the first three
years of his, career and those are things That i'm
gonna have to use quote unquote against him in an
extension chatter Like i'm okay with him going out in
the restricted free agency like next year and creating his own.
Market he probably will prob be A. Max but if
if he's worth, IT i have no issues like matching.
That but IF i can get him for, CHEAPER i
wouldn't hate. IT i think the solution THAT i brought
up to you was the fund max to start and
then just a flat rate from what the fun max
starts out at in twenty six twenty. Seven so like
that twenty five percent of the salary cap number for
twenty twenty six twenty twenty, seven and then just that
number repeated for four, years for four.
Speaker 1: Years you, said, SO i think that's like his max
Is like, WHAT i, think it's the forty two point.
Eight i'm just gonna imball. This so over four, years
that's four years and one seventy. One, BASICALLY i think
it's LIKE i, THINK i think he's gonna end up
getting the, max AND I i THINK i feel more
commident think he probably won't get a player, option more
so THAN J dub and unless the outcome to all
this is that he signs a shorter deal and then
maybe they give him a player option on.
Speaker 3: That but who's the most important one to retain, here, Right?
Speaker 1: YEAH i mean IT'S J dub and they're neither of
them are going. Anywhere i'm just curious to see what
the extensions look. LIKE i think the only real point
of potential division would be With. Chad it's like you,
said do you haggle over? Anything maybe it's maybe it
is the full, boat but are there injury like games
played protections in there for the? THUNDER i don't, know
but they just wanted. Titles this is like the perfect
time for him to sign an. Extension the vibes are, good, right,
yeah so he will get. IT i just he's the
only like of the. Two i'm just sort of, Like
i'm curious to see what that might end up looking
like we move on, you, Okay.
Speaker 3: OKAY i just wanted to SAY i. AGREE I i
just think there is a world wherein we might be
getting a little too ahead of ourselves With. JED i
love him, though LIKE i see the, upside but it
is what it.
Speaker 2: Is it's.
Speaker 3: Upside like his current, PRODUCTION i don't think it's worth
a max right.
Speaker 1: Now we haven't talked about at length, anyway The Drew
holiday trade before getting into The. Blazers what did you
make of that giving Up Anthony simon's and two second
round picks For Drew Drew.
Speaker 2: HOLIDAY i was.
Speaker 3: SURPRISED i was surprised, that you, know it was The
blazers who attached assets to that. TRADE i did not
think That drew had that trade.
Speaker 2: Value apparently he.
Speaker 3: Did that shocked me BECAUSE i thought several teams would
look at his, age look at his steel and just, go,
yeah you know, what let's try to squeeze The celtics
for a couple seconds or first or whatever if we
want to take that. On The blazers to actively want
him as a contract that surprised, me it really. Did
BUT i, mean, look there are benefits to. This is
this possibly the best mentor? POSSIBLE i mean To Scoot?
Speaker 2: Henderson?
Speaker 3: Yeah does his presence also Allow scoot And shade And
sharp to be the primary shot to, go, Well danny
afterim as?
Speaker 2: Well like those?
Speaker 3: Three are they gonna get empowered now to take more
shots With simon's out of the.
Speaker 2: Way.
Speaker 3: Absolutely so there is an element of try by fire
here as well by bringing In, drew WHICH i actually.
Like but the deal, ITSELF i thought probably could have
avoided the second rounders at the very least and perhaps
even squeezed out a couple of seconds From. Boston is
that gonna turn it into an outright shitty? Deal, No
but it's like some of those smaller things that annoy.
Speaker 1: ME i was IF i think it's debatable as to
whether they should have done. IT i was surpris that
the reaction was SO, wtf what's going on In? PORTLAND
i just view it as you, know the contract is the.
Contract if you want him for next, year it's all
of a sudden a two year, deal and that can
be easily, moved and you always need to send out
money in. Trades we very rarely see trades where it's
pure cap. Space, Yeah portland could have maybe hoarded cap,
space but you're always gonna need matching. MONEY i was,
AGAIN i was surprised that they were the team that
had to attach picks here even just straight, UP i
think like that would have made more sense to. Me
with all of that, SAID i would agree and echo
everything you yourself. SAY i think what gets a. Little
my two questions are like what does this do to the?
Hierarchy and this will just tap into my question, itself
what does this do the hierarchy on the team because
you Have Shane, Sharp Scoot, Henderson Tamati, Kamara Danny, Avia Jeremy,
Grant like who is starting from that? Group AND i
know that it might not matter who starts who? Fit,
okay what's your closing? Lineup and so there are a
lot of just players that have the profile or the
equity invested in them when you look at where they're
drafted to where it'd be very weird if all of
a sudden scoot is quote unquote STILL i know he
started games last year coming off the, bench or if
it's shade and sharp all of a sudden doing. That
and then my other question, there and this is the actual,
question is it does seem like they view themselves as
being relevant next, season which is. Fine that defense was already.
Feisty it's gonna, become you, know just like an inferno
of disruption and. Stability now That Drew holliday is, there
you have to get more shooting in. Here this stat
like you when you hear, it you're, like, yeah that makes,
sense but it's also kind of. Jarring last, year among
all Non Anthony simon's players on The, blazers they ranked
in the seventh percentile of catch and shoot three point shot,
making the eighth percentile of overall three point shot, making
and the twenty seventh percentile of all off ball. Gravity it's,
like now you're getting a peek into, Like, Okay Amberty
simons might not have been as efficient as he was last,
year but he took the kinds of, shots forced the
type of defensive attention that made the. OFFENSE i don't
even think you could call it, tenable but it made it,
better made it more of AN nba offense that is.
Gone that's just, gone And Drew holliday is not replacing.
THAT i, Know Tamati kamaras shot the ball well from.
Three Denny abvi has seen his percentage tick. Up they
need like, like Either Shaydon sharp needs to pop as
just like this jump, shooter OR i would still say
even if he does, pop you need to go out
there and get preferably someone who's bigger Than simon's. Was
you need to go get An Anthony simon's.
Speaker 2: Replacement are we about to have A Trey murphy discussion?
Again because they, Can't they just.
Speaker 1: Can't, well you know what's, interesting it's Not Trey murphy.
Specifically this team has now shown in consecutive offseasons that
they will go against the grain with their trades to
where they give up future draft picks For Denny avdi
last year and now they just trade for mid Thirties
Drew holliday with three years and one hundred plus million
left on his. Deal so if you told me that
they went out and traded a first round pick to
get like a higher end shooter in, here it just
wouldn't shock. Me and ALSO i think they really need.
Speaker 3: It when you were talking about the offensive pegging, order
was your omission Of DeAndre aiden? Intentional or is he
stuck on the ice trying to get to the.
Speaker 1: Game, well he's not gonna give you floor space like
at this. Point isn't Like Yong nson gonna give you
more floor spacing like than some of the other guys
on your. Roster but that's the other thing is you
have all these. Bigs, NOW i don't have a. Prop
by the, way people slamming that pick like we don't
know what he's gonna turn. Into yet you count acknowledge
it was a, risk it was a. Reach they moved
back to do it like in THEIR i also support
because they have a million. Bigs but the other thing
that's weird about The blazers more and this encompasses everybody
on the, roster as promising as they might, be is
there anyone that they currently employ that is good enough
that you are so sure as good enough that it's
going to deter you from drafting or acquiring a player
at any given. Position, No, nope that and so LIKE
i just don't. KNOW i didn't understand the outrage over
that pick is. All but they do have a trillion.
Bigs so it's just like they need that, Type like
they could use A Sam, Houser like why was there
not a way to fit him into that? Deal could
they have done something like? That but like could they
be A Cam johnson? Team you did Throw Trey murphy out.
THERE i just don't think they give up enough to get,
him but like THEY.
Speaker 3: I was, kidding but, like, YES i just didn't want
to have that conversation all over. Again but, no you're,
right he would be Bring Kobe.
Speaker 1: White come, on that's correct.
Speaker 3: Exactly so it's a weird, roster, Right so aiden we,
know solid defensive, player good, rebounder strong and serious scoring
scorer when he's, motivated but obviously not worth his salary
at this. Point, jerreo my grand is to, me like
what is he doing on that roster at that? Age
and you know he doesn't really help them from the. Outside,
yeah he's got some volume to, it but that's more
or less it defensively, fine like or actually outright. Good
but is he that good that you can't really replace
him internally with more minutes To Donovan klingen and an
improved role To kamara or something not. Necessarily you're, right
there are a lot of replaceable players on this, team
WHICH i think in a way is also encouraging when
you look at how they wrapped up the season in
a way like they found their, footing and then you
still have players where you're, like, ho, hummed they really
have a role. Here that's sort of a win in
and of. ITSELF i just don't know what the market
is for some of these, players like if they're trying
to pivot away From, aiden.
Speaker 1: What aspiring if you want to take on, money that's semi, interesting.
Speaker 3: Right but, like do you want to take on money
if you feel as though you can be competitive within?
Long don't you then want to optimize that salary spot
in some way shable for?
Speaker 1: Him, yeah that's a good. POINT i was wondering if
The NUGGETS i think get worse, here is there's some
sort of Like Jeremy Grant Michael porter junior, structure Because
Michael Porter junior would make a lot of sense dealers
shit liked.
Speaker 3: THAT i like, That But Jeremy grant did not like
at least at the tail end of his stay In.
Denver he didn't like being there because he thought he
was just such an. Afterthought, offensively do you sell him, on,
hey you know, what given the current structure of the,
team go right ahead an average, Twenty, like do you
make that pitch to him if you're The?
Speaker 2: Nuggets?
Speaker 1: WELL i think also that was before he had been,
paid and now he's been paid, twice and so he
just might be at a different point in his career
where contention might matter, more especially since he's on. That and,
also you, know With Michael Porter junior coming, out there
is going to be some sort of like scoring vacuum.
THERE i don't you, know he's probably a little bit
better still as an on ball, score but as a,
Shooter like that's a downgrade For. Denver so we're sitting,
Here tom and they should go out after. Shooters that's
a downgrade. There that's sort of the type of player they.
NEED i don't view The Grand deal AS i guess
as toxic as you. Do what is it like three
years and one hundred and two or one hundred and
four million left.
Speaker 3: On, okay so toxic is probably IF i use that,
WORD i want to take that. Back that's probably a
bad word on my part If i've used that. Before
i'm just slightly nervous when a guy suddenly drops almost
ten percentage points in terms of his, efficiency drops seven
points per, game well more or less playing the same
minutes and just looking all types of bend out of
shape offensively from one year to the. Other AM i
panicking a little bit about The Jeremy grant situation In? Portland,
yes ADMITTEDLY i. Am maybe there's a bounce back year.
Speaker 1: THERE i think a lot of it. TOO i think
it's fair to be. Worried BUT i think the two
things that we probably don't talk about enough is the
ecosystem around him where there wasn't good spacing for, anybody
just like. Basically and then the other thing is, like
what does it say like the pecking orter was kind
of just like shifting before him there when you're like
Now Danny avvia is, involved and you Have scoot and
you Have Tamani kamara And Shane sharp doing a little bit. More,
SO i think that one your playing time gets IMPACT
i guess his didn't get dramatically impacted by, it BUT
i think just the functionality of. Him so maybe going
somewhere where the role won't change as much because it's
a team that's more focused on the immediate or has
a very clear cut role for. Him Where, portland you,
know we're talking like we're mentioning about who's gonna, start
like as of right, Now like there's probably a pretty
good chance that he just comes off the, bench right
unless they're viewing this in terms of, salary in which, case,
Oh DeAndre ayton And Jeremy grant have to.
Speaker 2: START i don't know what the response.
Speaker 3: Is they just need a, response, honestly because you can't
rely on a guy who just was inefficient literally from
everywhere on the. Floor it's a tough. SITUATION i also
Think denny's ready to take that, Step like to that question,
earlier is there anyone where you wouldn't draft or get
a guy at a certain position because he's locked. IN
i Think denny's the closest to that answer as currently. Constructed,
YEAH i think.
Speaker 1: He has because we just don't. Know like, infury it
should scoot should be the, answer but he's just not
yet like you. Haven't he was better last. Year definitely
stay year and He'll i'm assuming he'll continue to. Improve
i'm still in On, scoot but, Yeah denny is the
closest they come to like having that primary face of the,
future and he.
Speaker 2: Was so good to wrap up the.
Speaker 3: YEAR i thought we saw like a significant shift in
his play style. Too you, know he was VERY i
don't want to say, stationary that might be the wrong,
Word like he always tried to do something on the
ball when he was In, washington but it felt as
though it was like more along the, lines you, know
straight line, drives spot up, shooting like he wasn't really
allowed to do to be as creative as he was In.
Portland AND i think the first half of the season
he sort of Played Washington wizards. Basketball still he felt, like, oh,
YEAH i still have to play within the scheme of the.
OFFENSE i still have to limit. Myself and then the
second half of the, year oh my, god he started
playing like luka freakin' dontic like it suddenly something just
went off and he, was, YEAH i got it. Now
if that, sustainable that also solves the big question we've
had about this team for a while, now which is
who's their main guy who to build, around who is
like the.
Speaker 1: Lynchpin SO i think there's a point where it could
be sustainable because we kind of saw it during the
latter half of the year In washington when they really
like kind of lean and he was just. Empowered More
so we've seen that level before to some. EXTENT i
just don't know if he's like this sort of feels
like the lowry marketing level of star at best to where, okay,
Interesting like he could definitely be not different, players let
me be, clear but he's probably not going to be
the best player on the four seed in The Western.
Conference like that's just probably Not and by the, way
that's like another name is there a structure where you
And Jeremy grant's salary and then you're Compensating utah enough
to Get Larry market in on this? Team that would
be like That Cam johnson And larry market and The
Michael porter. Junior that feels like the best type of
acquisition for this team if they're looking to elevate their.
Speaker 2: OFFENSE i don't hate.
Speaker 3: That that's actually a pretty Good Lauri marketing, Team AND
i don't think there are a lot out there Where
i'm just, like, oh this team Needs lauri.
Speaker 2: Marketing this might actually be one of.
Speaker 1: THEM i guess it gets weird is just they don't
really have like who are you giving To? Utah like
they don't have the blue chip prospect That i'm assuming
you're not going to Trade sharp Or henderson To utah
to Get lowry and so it's all picks AND i
don't know That utah is going to be interested in
that just because they have a crap ton of picks.
Themselves this, TEAM i will, say we called Them grant.
Nine we were doing their offseason look at the biggest
wildcard of the. Offseason they immediately proved us right like
thirty six hours later by trading For Drew. Holliday and
they're still like the biggest wildcard of the one of
the biggest wildcards of the are Like toronto up there for,
Sure but this team is a huge offseason wild card
AND i favor. IT i, LIKE i kind of like
the mystery box stuff that's going on right.
Speaker 2: Here, Agreed it's.
Speaker 3: FUN i, mean look the SO i was about to,
Say Hanson yang is it because He's? Chinese It's Yang hanson,
like how do we go about this The Yao ming
situation as, well like he Had yao on the back
of his. Jersey i'm not really sure of is It
Yang hanson or is It Hanson?
Speaker 1: YANG i, look just to, CONFESS i will sit down
BEFORE i do the preseason preseason look aheads and like
try to get the pronunciation of all the new players.
DOWN i do not have it.
Speaker 3: Down, no, no, no it's not the. Pronunciation it's like
which comes.
Speaker 1: First, oh that's WHY i do not know he was
announced As wasn't he announced As?
Speaker 2: Yang?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, NO i think he was announced the other.
Speaker 2: Way, Oh Yang. HANSON i don't.
Speaker 3: Remember the only thing that threw me was was The
hanson part because that's A danish, Name SO i was,
like what, wait what that's THAT i.
Speaker 1: Thought he was IN i thought it WAS i thought
he was introduced as Young henson when they called his,
Name BUT i NOW i can't. Remember i'm. Misremembering if
anyone in the chat wants to remind us how he was,
announced we will greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 3: REGARDLESS i, mean, look there is there is absolutely something
interesting with a team that's unpredictable because it means they're
probably not just being unpredictable for the. Fans it also
means that there are twenty nine other front offices that
have no idea what the fuck they're doing in terms
of like trying to gauge where The blazer's, going and
they'll just swing on something that's just not. Expected so
if you call them, up you're, LIKE i don't even
know what to offer them BECAUSE i have no idea
what the direction, is and that's going to put The
blazers out of an. Advantage so it's. Interesting i'm right
there with. You good call on part of, you grand not, SURPRISINGLY.
Speaker 1: I thought you said surprisingly at. First, no let's get
into The. Utah, yeah who As bailey most definitely wants
to play, for reportedly as he should quite, frankly but
neither here nor. There what's your question for?
Speaker 3: Them, oh, well let's just get this out away. First
uta is not a bad. DESTINATION i, mean, Look Salt
Lake city is. Gorgeous i've been, there as many people
have alluded. To it's only like a thirty minute flight
from From. Vegas most players love it. There like initially they're, like, Oh,
Utah Salt Lake, city and they get, there they find
out that it's pretty low, key like they can walk
the streets without getting too. Bothered and like again The vecus,
POINT i JUST i don't want to but that, way.
Speaker 1: The basketball, situation if he wants to be a, star
this is. Perfect like, yeah, Okay brooklyn would have been fine,
Too but like DID i just he they've already walked it.
BACK i was never, worried COULD I, HONESTLY i give
the front office kudos here for not backing off as
he tried the, Same so shout out to. THEM i
think he'll happy. There LIKE i JUST i think with
the role they can forget about the off court. Stuff,
YEAH i agree with like the proximity To, Vegas california even,
sure BUT i think the basketball situation is going to
be awesome for. Him there's no guard on the team
that needs to really dominate the. Ball that was my.
Question i'm Gonna i'm gonna hijack and go first here
like a four.
Speaker 2: One, absolutely do you think.
Speaker 1: Because they Have Sexton, Clarkson Isaiah, Collier, Keante George collier's
the closest of any of them that comes to like
a floor general, type, Correct like that's Not george or clarks.
Intersexton those guys are not being too.
Speaker 2: Optimistic IF i bring, in you, Know Walter Clayton.
Speaker 1: Junior, HERE i guess you. Could that's. Fair but do
you would you support or do you think that they
should go out and maybe get a veteran who you
know is going to seek like and try and find
and it's not someone go out and spend all this
money or give up all these first round, picks but
get more of an experienced game manager in there to
ensure that when, yeah you Want Ace bailey to self,
create run pick and rolls and beat the engine of
the offense for, points but also to get him the
ball in the right spots and in spots that makes
it easier for him to.
Speaker 3: Score what you're really asking me is DO i take
a free agent meeting with a point guard AND i
sit that guy down AND i tell, him, Look i'm
gonna give you two million more on your contract if
you agree to just spoon Feed Ace bailey throughout the
next eighty two. Games that's what you're asking, Me and,
YEAH i absolutely take that meeting with a point. Guard
Dear Tias, jones would you consider?
Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely why WOULDN'T? I that's a smart.
Speaker 3: Play that's a real investment in a guy who has
upside and where you help him along the way because
he will need. HELP i know he's fancies himself Like tracy,
McCrady but Even tracy McGrady needed.
Speaker 2: Help that's something that we need to.
Speaker 3: Acknowledge my biggest question About Ace bailey, though when it
comes to, this is is it always the best way
to develop talent if the guy just gets the green
light and if everyone around him is sort of tailored
towards you, know give this guy the. Ball is this
always the right way to develop in the most optimal,
sense or do you need to lay within a certain
set of boundaries to become a truly impactful.
Speaker 1: PLAYER i would probably tilt more towards the, latter especially
when starting, out and especially for certain like if he
was you, know if If LaMelo, Ball Dylan, harper if
he was on this, team yes you give him the
ball and say run the. Show but because that's not
really As bailey's, Game so there's a certain archetype WHERE
i think it changes as. Well SO i would be
with you, There and IT'S i mean Like utah has
like they have the full mid. Level they could go
to A Tias jones and say we will give you the.
One if no one's giving you the full mid, level
we Will and we just want someone to come in
here and just be an, organizer like.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be the contract of your game has to
go to Ace by.
Speaker 1: Right like, so or there's incentives for how many assists
you have To Ace bailey on the.
Speaker 2: Season we're gonna track.
Speaker 3: You we're gonna track your, passes like, so at least
has to go to.
Speaker 1: ACE i guess the danger in thinking like, that, though
would be, okay well are you cutting, into uh the
development Of Kante george Or Isaiah. Collier and to my
response there would be, like, well you could also move
off of or lower the playing time Of, Collin sexton Or,
clarkson because those are not players who factor into your
bigger picture. Anyway someone like that also helps Out Lowry,
marketen who had a precipitous drop in his own efficiency last.
Speaker 3: YEAR i have a question about your your first point
there is it time to Move Keyante george back to
the two or do you still want to go through
the experiment of churning him into a. One and before
you you, ANSWER i Like it's something THAT i still
not have made like a decision on in my own
head in terms of WHAT i, want BECAUSE i do
think he's gained a lot from being so much on the.
Ball like, remember he came into the league as primarily
an inefficient, two and for him to like get the
reps at the point guard, POSITION i think has been
greatly beneficial for. Him do you think it would behoove
him to like remain in that role or should we
get back to like unleashing.
Speaker 2: To him a little.
Speaker 1: Bit if you're going to continue to bring him off the,
BENCH i think that's probably. Fine otherwise it might be
interesting to see him play off another for general, type.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah just as a combo you. THINK i don't hate?
Speaker 1: That, yeah BUT i mean, again what does that do
With Isaiah? Collier like that's but, AGAIN i don't think
any of these guys are good enough to where you
trip yourself up thinking like the priority to, Me i'm
not saying put his competitive livelihood over everybody else on the,
team but like the priority the guy In utah As
bailey right?
Speaker 2: Now so assuming he plays, there, YEAH i think he.
Speaker 1: Will i'd be shocked if he. Doesn't there was already
reports that he was going to show up By.
Speaker 2: Monday So, i'm, oh, look it's not. HIM i question.
FRONT i don't know how much you read about his
post AGENT i.
Speaker 1: DID i just it just gets to a point where, you,
like not even the MOST i don't, know like ignorant
person in the world can like keep him like from not.
Reporting it just. Doesn't you have no leverage, Here like
there's no real leverage, here.
Speaker 3: RIGHT i JUST i just hope he gets. Better guidance
is probably the right word for.
Speaker 1: Sure so AND i think also that's the thing that
People i've probably missed throughout all this is maybe there
are some actual red flags with his responses or whatever
at the combine or in, interviews but he's not the
one shooting down all like this is his. Representation he
even kind of said it that drafting like he's, LIKE
i focus on, basketball And i'm sure he's like he's
he is an, adult he's a young, adult but like
he's complicit to an, extent but like you kind of forget.
That it's not, like, no he's being he's being steered,
incorrectly and hopefully that will change in the near. Future
AND i think him reporting By, monday as it seems
like he will will show that that's you, know at
least happening to some.
Speaker 3: Extent fingers crossed because like, YOU i want a happy
ending on this, one for.
Speaker 1: Sure what's your question For?
Speaker 3: Utah what should they do ABOUT lori marking at this?
POINT i, mean, look they did the renegotiating. Extent he's
what's the word, here like? Overpaid, yes but he's not
a contract Where i'm, Like i'm so nervous THAT i
THAT i won't get you, know a significant chunk of. Production,
like he's not some type of debt contract. Here AND
i think sometimes those are the most difficult contracts to, gauge, Right,
like you have a productive, player you have someone who
can give you twenty twenty, two twenty three points per,
game he'll give you eight, rebounds he'll give you quality.
Shooting but he's overpaid by probably around five to tell
me a million. Annually those contracts are so difficult because
if you're The jazz when you shop, him obviously you're
not interested in relinquishing additional assets to get off that.
Contract but if you're the receiving, team you're also looking
at it, going, Yeah i'm not gonna be relinquishing a
lot of contracts or, sorry a lot of assets to
take on a player who's probably. Overpaid how the hell
do they get out of this situation if they're even
interested in doing.
Speaker 1: SO i, HONESTLY i feel like the answer is pretty,
straightforward and it's you hope that he plays better this,
season and then you can recalibrate either at the trade
deadline or next offseason based off where you are and
where you're headed as a. Team and then if he,
doesn't LIKE i just, don't you can keep holding onto
him at that because it's you're not trying to contend right.
Now that money has to go, somewhere and you know,
what the best version Of larry marketing looks. LIKE i
don't really. Subscribe i'm not saying you do. EITHER i
don't subscribe to the idea that you have to move
him like Where i've seen be, like, oh if you
just get two first round picks or him Go LIKE
i guess that The pelicans are offering unprotected, first let's
have a conversation if they're just throwing those around on the,
market but they're, not like unless The jazz are trying
to hit the accelerate acceleration, button and even they are
Like Larry market would be pretty important in doing. That,
Actually SO i don't think they should move him because
he doesn't hurt your rebuild like he's he's like this
perimeter play finisher, basically like you don't want him creating
his own shots and his value it's not add its inn,
Adear but it might be just because of the, Contract
and so why would you move him when it's not
after near it's peak or higher than it is?
Speaker 3: Now, Right AND i guess you're right in terms of
if he just does not return to like his usual
standard twenty three twenty five points efficient, offense you can
sort of live with that, contract like you don't really
have a whole lot of players that you need to,
take Like John. COLLINS i actually Like John collins quite a,
bit but he's he's not long for this. Roster i'm
guessing that they're gonna try to pump up his value as,
well and then at the trade to line if someone
needs a big man who can, produce that's someone who
a receiving team can potentially take, in and then you
resign next summer at a at a lesser, deal Perhaps
Colin sexton probably the same. Thing AM i worried About
Jordan clarkson? Whatsoever probably not that you.
Speaker 1: Know that's The Colin sexton is a good sort of
inverse Of Larry, market and that's the player you look at,
now he's in the final year of his. Contract you
really don't have business extending him or bringing him. Back
that's the. Player If utah needed Hat, earncy he's, Like,
okay we need to move him or just be prepared
to let him leave for. Nothing Larry market and it's just,
yeah if a team comes and bowls you over with an,
offer he's absolutely not. UNTOUCHABLE i Just i've seen a
lot of, like well they should just move him for
what he could get, now because that deal looks so. Bad,
one there's NO i don't think it's as terrible as people. Think.
Two if it is, bad what is it Preventing utah
from doing right? Now like this is a problem three
years into the future most, likely at which point he
will be an expiring, contract and it's not a problem at.
Speaker 3: All if he comes to The jazz and, says, LOOK
i want to go on to a competing, TEAM i
want out of, here then that situation becomes extremely.
Speaker 2: Interesting it.
Speaker 1: Doesn't it doesn't BECAUSE i sit there and, say you
got renegotiated and extended because we were buying your silence
or your patients for at least two. Years, LIKE i
just don't think if he tries to play that card
before next, summer and even, then it's just they paid
you when they didn't have to have and it's like
he earned. It don't get me, wrong but like that
renegotiate and extend it just felt so not like a team.
RUN i know he's not doing the day to day,
stuff but that did not feel like A Danny inge
led team at. All it was we're buying your we're
buying your, patients or you're. Silent so it would get
interesting if he does, that BUT i. Don't If i'm,
Utah i'm, like, sure you go find the team that's
want to compensate us what we want for, you and
then we'll.
Speaker 2: Talk oh, GOD i want that to. HAVE i want
that to be the.
Speaker 3: Conversation he comes in and sits at the, table he's
sweating in a little bit and he's, like and then
you're just the only answer he gets is, sure.
Speaker 1: Don't You and you Know, honestly there's a chance that
both ages kind of if he does, that they might
breathe a sigh of relief Because Austin ange, said we're
not gonna manipulate, minutes and Then Danny ainge probably wants
to take, anyway and so then he's gonna hold out
or you're just gonna have to just like not dismiss,
him but like not have him travel with the team
or suspend him for conduct detrimental to the. Team it
Doesn't this is, LIKE i don't think that's in marketing's
we haven't seen anything like that. Happen but If i'm,
utah there's just there's he could not pressure me. Enough
he could go Full James harden And i'm, like, yeah
like we're still in our, Rebuild like we're okay moving
on without you because the losses come in the lottery
odds go.
Speaker 3: Up he's, finished so this it's not gonna. Happen he's. Achievement, well, look.
Speaker 1: He's like mort is saying he's, finished not he's. Finished
you want.
Speaker 3: To correct very much, Correct like he didn't like being
into the bulls and he was very close to you,
know asking, Out but it's knowing him and knowing him
like the nationality is probably like the most polite trade
request of all. Time like he comes in cap in,
hand like, SIR i would really, Appreciate like he's not
gonna come in and slam his fist on the.
Speaker 2: TABLE i don't, Know it's just it's a weird.
Speaker 3: SITUATION i think because he's also twenty, eight so he's
like in the prime of his. CAREER i do think
you laid out the most likely scenario that he plays
his balls, off that he rehabs his, value and then
that the trade that line in twenty twenty. Six that's
when you kind of, reconvene you talk about, this you
figure out what, works what doesn't.
Speaker 2: Work perhaps there's a trade.
Speaker 1: Here is there a team though that as of right
now or even leading into the trade, down let's say
that you would want to see like given all like
it has to be a real offer for years out
of consider is there a team that if lowry marketing
trades back is going to become a thing that you
have a team sort of circled as. Well that's like
a Team i'm going to keep an eye.
Speaker 3: On we brought up The blazers as a potential destination.
BEFORE i actually don't hate, that BUT i don't think
there are a lot of teams that are necessarily in you,
know the lori marketing archetype business. Anymore we're talking about
how size has returned to THE. Nba great, Theoretically laurie
counts as, that but does he really because that size
comes with a certain level of expectation, defensively rebounding, wise
like he'll give you the, scoring he'll give you the floor.
Spacing is he someone who wants starting at the three full?
Speaker 2: Time?
Speaker 3: PERSONALLY i don't think. That it's not Something i'm like
a big fan, of at least not. Yet it's he's
a weird. Archetype it's kind of What i'm. Saying he's
not someone who's easy to build something, Around like he
has to come in and be sort of a complimentary,
player but a complementary player at forty six.
Speaker 1: Million, yeah that's that you need him to fit into
your salary. Structures you. Know, NO i would, say no
better than your second best, player and even that could
technically be a. Stretch you might want to be more
like your Third oh, wow but that would be so
It's Michael Porter JUNIOR i Guess Peyton watson and then
a first round pick and a? Swap is that? Enough,
like and there's other money included in? There is that?
ENOUGH i don't know if that's, Enough, LIKE i just.
DON'T i don't know if they have the For utah
to bite For marketing's value right? Now MAYBE i can't
See utah accepting that.
Speaker 2: Offer what About?
Speaker 1: Detroit maybe get a flyer On jade And ivy picks
And Tobias harris is? Expiring why is?
Speaker 3: So why are so many people interested in breaking up
the Kid jaden things so? Soon when when they've been
like interchangeably, injured not really played a whole lot.
Speaker 1: TOGETHER i don't think there are minutes together have been
all that. EFFECT i Think jay And ivy got, BETTER
i just. DON'T i don't think it's the right fit
for the.
Speaker 3: Roster we haven't seen them, like we haven't seen them
together long term with this version Of. Kate Though kate
got so much better this, year we saw only thirty
games out Of.
Speaker 1: Jane i'm not saying you should actively be looking to
move j And ivy for, anything but If Larry marketin's
on the, TABLE i would Contu je And ivy, YEAH.
Speaker 3: I probably, wouldn't but, AGAIN I jade is one of my,
Guys like he's one of those players WHO i, like you,
know he's he's My Tumani. Kamara that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Because Tomani kamara has like been really good, though is the?
Difference do you want to talk Some Messaiau Jerry Toronto
raptors really?
Speaker 3: Quickly, yeah, YEAH i mean you have the graphic up
so Like i'm pretty much forced to right awkward IF
i said, no.
Speaker 1: He's out In, toronto it clearly wasn't. MUTE i know
The raptors tried to frame it as that it feels
more like a cost slash power thing from MLS's. Play
they'll they'll raise the ticket. Prices they'll raise don't they
have like in charge of cable or whatever and kind
of they'll raise those prices but trim the operating costs for.
Them what do you read into?
Speaker 3: This, well first, thing, first let's just let's get the
optics out of the way, First, right he was always
on his last legs for for, like this is something
we've heard about for a, While like he was he
was on the hot. Seat that's been a that's been
a thing for what a, year maybe even longer. Now
so this is this isn't surprising. Whatsoever but for The
raptors to do this a day after the completion of the,
draft that is just it's it's the optics are.
Speaker 1: Funny it's not everyone's going to be, like, oh it's
because he Took Colin Murray boyles and it's just that's
not how this worked for, Sure but it's just the
Op you're, right they ope themselves up to, that you,
know those those types of optics.
Speaker 3: Exactly it Was Bobby webster making these, decisions Not. Messiah
So i'm just looking at this, going you know, what
why put this on? Yourself, like because this is going
to be a story for at least a couple of
years where people talk, about remember how you did did?
Speaker 2: This and this was totally.
Speaker 3: Avoidable it's just sometimes IN ba, organizations they just they
make the most, obvious dumb ass mistakes and you just
kind of sit there and, go how do you not
how do you not read the tea leaves on this?
One but my overarching point here is this was not a.
Shock so what you're really asking me here is, like
what DO i make of this? SITUATION i make of
it that there was.
Speaker 1: INEVITABLE i, mean it's these types of things are always
inevitable if you want to go down that. ROAD i just,
don't you, know the the comments made during the press
or after the, fact we're just sort of uninspiring and
it kind Of Katie heindel had like kind of provided her,
thoughts AND i thought they WHERE i thought they were
spot on where it kind of feels like they just
made this change for change's sake and that they don't
have a plan in. Place that's not to say you
need to have another name lined. UP i got myself
into trouble saying, that AND i was wrong about The
nick's head coaching. SEARCH i walked it. BACK i was,
LIKE i don't know WHAT i was. Thinking that was ill.
Conceived it doesn't seem like they have a vision for
what like and it's just too the optics are. Bad
of the timing around, it, like now what are you?
Doing they brought UP i think unprompted to luxury taxes
like a no no for this, team which is that's
kind of. Troubling so are you still like trying to
accelerate the? Timeline is it to we expect Like brandon
ingram to all of a sudden beyond the trade market.
NOW i just there was like a sentiment out there
that Maybe yakapurta would get an. Extension is he now
on the chopping? BLOCK i think this sends they were
already pretty, confusing And messiah of course And Bobby webs
are all out of hand in, that but there was
like it felt what they were trying to do was,
clear was that they were trying to make a take
a big step forward this, season and did they have
the right pieces in place to do that, debatable of.
Course it just feels like there was a level OF
i don't, KNOW i can't really describe, it but what
they have right now just feel so, Empty like after
just reading those comments from the press conference Is i'm
not saying you need to have a replacement lined, up
but it just doesn't feel like this team has a.
Vision and when you are this, expensive they're not prohibitively,
expensive but when you have so many guys who are
kind of in their, primes you're not. Yet Scottie barnes
is still, developing but all the other core players on
this team AND. Rj, Barrett, A brandon Ingram, A yaka
pertle like they're in E manuel, quickly like they're entering
or they're in or they're exiting their. Prime so it's
JUST i DON'T i GUESS i Know massias caught a
lot of, shit just he is the lead. Executive and
so even if it Was Bobby webster making the Og
annobi And Pascal siakham, trades it's you're, like you're gonna
be the fall guy if you don't think those worked.
Out but it almost felt like it was a mandate
that they needed to get, better like the Og annobi returned,
specifically and, yeah they maybe they waited too long to
trade those, guys but just like they weren't working with
the most ideal circumstances after their twenty nineteen title, Either
and So i'm just not as quick to be, like,
oh LIKE messi was really fucking up here as a
lot of other. People and maybe they were just certain
like did he promise to Get Kevin durant or deliver
a star by draft night or something and. DIDN'T i don't.
Know i'm not saying that he has done the or
that this front office has done the best, job BUT
i think that they have been, creative taken opportunistic, swings
AND i just DON'T i don't, KNOW i don't look
at The raptor situation as necessarily aimless or. UNDESIRABLE i
certainly consider it a little bit aimless now though that
he's not in.
Speaker 3: Charge, YEAH i, MEAN i, HONESTLY i think he did
fine for the most part in the last couple of.
Years like The ingren, trade whether he made that or,
not presumably he did.
Speaker 1: Not that one was he had to give, it, okay
like he's involved in are we? Trading are we giving
him an? Extension it's just, YEAH i don't.
Speaker 3: THAT i didn't like so SO i. DO i think
equality team president slash general manager what it's executive has
now landed on the. MARKET i think there are at
least five teams in THE nba right now who should
fire their lead executive and go like lock you try
to lock him? Up, like, well probably lock him up
and then fire your. Executive but, like are you going
to tell me the rudder? List Chicago bulls couldn't use
someone like, him, absolutely The, pelicans even.
Speaker 1: Though they, sorry, SIR i.
Speaker 3: Know, WELL i, KNOW i, mean just generally, speaking, right
he would be an upgrade on on several.
Speaker 1: TEAMS i would fire The knicks front office right now
and put Messire, jerry and The knick front office hasn't
even done a bad. Job like that's my opinion Of Messiah.
Speaker 2: JERRY i, think, yeah.
Speaker 3: Same by the, way would it be the most weird
acquisition and like timeline of a player? Ever If Brandon
ingram is traded this summer having never suited up with
The raptors and yet still got an, extension you, know that'd.
Speaker 1: Be Simp it would be similar to not exactly because
he did suit up for this, team but like what
The pacers did With Bruce brown when they flipped him
in The. Pascal, see it would be, that except it
just timed. It he was injured when they did, it
so he never actually played for.
Speaker 3: Them but that's but like still, right we would look
back back at A Brandon ingram career where he got
a one hundred and twenty million dollar extension having never
played for the team that actually signed him to it
THAT i don't think that's ever happened IN nba. History
so now obviously BECAUSE i just laid it out like,
that NOW i wanted to happen just for the Sheer
shenannigans of it.
Speaker 1: ALL i, MEAN i would think it's on the table.
NOW i honestly don't know what the direction here, Is,
like what is what WAS massi not doing that would
would have compelled them to push him. Out it's like
it just feels like a. Firing he had one year
left on his. Deal they framed it as a mutual
party of the. WAYS i really don't think that's what it.
WAS i just So i'm just. Curious it's, like, so
what were you looking? For did you want to get?
Cheaper did you want to be? Rebuilding and if and
if you wanted to get cheaper or, rebuilding you let
this let's call, it let's just loop it the front office.
Somewhere you let them like make too many moves then
like it should have been you should have, intervened AND
i wouldn't have supported, it so to. Speak but this
just feels for the point that they're, at it feels unnecessarily.
Meddlesome and if if it really cames down to he
wanted too much power or money in his next, DEAL
i don't know if that's more or less understandable quite quite.
Speaker 2: Frankly and the worst part is you AND i were.
Speaker 3: Both we love Culinary, boyles if memory serves, RIGHT.
Speaker 1: I don't love him on this, team but, yes we love.
Speaker 3: Calmra that's the THING i wrote about this Over yahoo as.
WELL i said a lot of the player that might
AND i THINK i pecked this dude as just, being you,
know plug and play virtually. Everywhere the virtually did a
lot of heavy lifting there because now he's On toronto
and that's like the worst possible, situation because where are
those minutes gonna come? By Like Brandon ingram is not
a natural, Too let's just be. Real he's more of
a three to.
Speaker 2: Four. Oh the same is true About Scotty. BARNES.
Speaker 3: Rj barrett tried the two In New, york didn't really
set the world on, fire became like a fully fletched
forward with the with the, raptures started expanding his game
all of a. Sudden so you know, what he's a
three to four to. Two so you have three guys
all playing like small forward power. Forward you can try
to get away with Playing colin More boyles as a
small ball center here and, there but like presumably or preferably,
rather you want him playing the. Four where are those
minutes gonna come. By if they're already taken By, Barnes
ingram And, barrett it's, just, yeah something's got to give.
HERE i don't think they are interested in pivoting off
Brandon ingram BECAUSE i think the optics of doing that
when he's never suited up for him is super.
Speaker 2: Bad SO i think J barrett.
Speaker 1: Isn't a relative to what they gave up, For like
what if.
Speaker 3: Oh, sorry go, Ahead no, no, NO i, LOOK i agree with,
YOU i like for, us for, Us sikos would be,
like that's the smart thing to.
Speaker 2: Do the casual. Fan trying to sell this to the casual.
Speaker 1: Fan they, okay but do they care about optics when
they just got rid Of Messiah jerry the day after the.
Speaker 2: Draft there are two answers to.
Speaker 3: That maybe they are well aware of that and just
went fuck it and did it, Anyway so maybe.
Speaker 2: NOT i, MEAN i don't.
Speaker 3: Know i'm just LIKE i WOULD i would Trade Brandon ingram,
Too But i'm guessing that they're trying to find a
middle ground With Archie.
Speaker 2: Barry.
Speaker 1: Yeah i'm not even advocating for them to trade anyone.
NECESSARILY i just think that this is they didn't even
really give whatever vision this front office was trying to
put in place a chance to fully play, out which
is why this decision to me IS i think it's
curious and is also, concerning But i'll have to see
what happens from. Here and there are another similar with The.
Blazers they now feel more than ever like one of
the bigger wild cards of the. Offseason mort you got
anything else or can you tell our, listeners, watchers subscribers
where they can find you and all the work that you.
Speaker 3: Did. Well you can find my work over At Yahoo.
Sports you can find it At, forbes you can find
it at THE nba, podcast and then if you Speak,
danish on the off, chance you can find my work
over At Buster.
Speaker 1: Peter until next, time and as, always we with the
shout out to the one the only well plug here
when we'll be back On saturday to do the what's
the final division we Have, central so we'll get to
talk about The bulls and The bucks and other teams
in The, central which also include The. Pacers sad, face
that's kind of a bummer until next, time so come
check us out. Then but until next, time and as,
always do you the shout out to the, one the,
only the. Indelible he can fix every single issue In
toronto if they just sign him and give him the
keys as both the player and lead executive to the.
Franchise Mister Frank neila ten