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Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. We're opening a file today that

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it really gets out of question. I think a lot

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of us have asked ourselves, where does political allegiance end?

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You know, we all see it, We rationalize gaffs, We

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can overlook legal troubles, maybe even accept some hypocrisy if

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we think it's for a greater good, right for the

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cause exactly, But there has to be a line, right,

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a moral line that once it's crossed, even the most

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devoted supporter, someone who is totally bought in, just has

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to say, I'm jay, I'm done. Yeah. And that's what

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we have here, a file that details how a massive

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political strategists tried to secretly, you know, rehabilitate the image

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of one of the most notorious sexual predators in recent history.

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Speaker 2: And crucially, the file out when that correspondents those private

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messages went public.

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Speaker 1: We are, of course talking about Steve Bannon and Jeffrey Epstein.

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And for this Thrilling Threads deep dive, we're drawing heavily

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on material that was compiled by Media.

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Speaker 2: Matters right, and it was summarized really well in the

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YouTube video called Bannon Finally a and in by Maga

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as gross Epstein email's surface. That's from the general the

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damage report.

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Speaker 1: So our mission today for you is to really dissect this.

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We want to understand first what were the specifics of

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this Bannon Epstein coordination? How deep did it actually go?

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Speaker 2: And second, and this is maybe the more fascinating part

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for understanding political psychology today, why this? Yeah, why these revelations?

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Why did this become the absolute tipping point for some

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of his most dedicated, die hard audience members.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack it. We're going to look at the

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sheer audacity of this secret project, the.

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Speaker 2: Nitty gritty of Epstein's political advice.

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Speaker 1: And then then we get to the exchange that I

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think for a lot of people proved it was all

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just a facade. So let's start at the beginning, the

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core revelation that kind of sets the stage for everything else.

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Steve Bannon was reportedly working completely in secret to try

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and fix the public image of Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: And we really have to stress the timeline here.

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Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, this isn't Bannon talking to him thirty years

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ago when Epstein was just some you know, mysterious financier.

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Speaker 2: No, this was happening after after the conviction after the

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scandal had already blown up, after the world knew or

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at least had a very good idea of the kinds

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of crimes he'd committed.

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Speaker 1: It's just the contradiction is what's so stunning.

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Speaker 2: Well, think about Bannon's brand. His entire public persona is

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built on being this populous warrior, the guy who's going

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to destroy the global elite swamp. And here he is,

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behind the scenes trying to run a pr campaign for

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a man who didn't just epitomize that swamp. He was

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like the monster at the bottom of it, a convicted

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child predator.

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Speaker 1: It's the ultimate hypocrisy. So you have to ask what

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was the goal? What was in it for Bannon?

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Speaker 2: That's the key question. Was this some kind of you know,

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journalistic deep dive to expose the network or was this

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a straightforward quid pro quo you help me, I help

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you exactly, money, access information, something tangible. It really speaks

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to his operational style, doesn't it, This idea that there's

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a kind of moral flexibility if the strategic game is

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big enough.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, when you think about image rehabilitation, and

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the whole point is to shift perception to take a

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monster and make them seem I don't know, misunderstood or.

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Speaker 2: A victim of circumstance, even right, And to.

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Speaker 1: Even consider applying that process to Jeffrey Epstein suggests that

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Bannon saw the crimes themselves as just a pr problem

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to be solved.

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Speaker 2: Not a fundamental moral barrier, just an obstacle.

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Speaker 1: A huge piece of evidence the source material points to

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is this really long tape interview Bannon apparently did with Epstein, and.

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Speaker 2: He sat on it. He hit the tapes, which.

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Speaker 1: For his persona, that's just damning. If you're the anti

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elite crusader and you get an interview with the elite predator,

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that's the term from the source material, why would you

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hide it?

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't. You'd broadcast it from the rooftops. That'd be

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the biggest show of your career. I got him, I

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got the confession. I exposed the network. Unless unless the

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context of that interview was more damaging to Bannon than

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it was to Epstein, who was already completely condemned in

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the public eye, so the tapes would are revealed, the collaboration,

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the cozy nature of it all, the coziness, the strategic

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goals of the whole rehabilitation project. The suppression of the

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tapes is what makes his followers suspicious. It tells them

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this wasn't an expose, this was something else Entirely.

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Speaker 1: It feels like a massive calculation error on his part.

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He must have weighed the risk of being exposed working

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with Epstein against whatever Epstein was offering him, and.

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Speaker 2: He decided the value of the collaboration was worth the risk,

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at least for a while.

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Speaker 1: But it just fundamentally conflicts with his entire narrative.

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Speaker 2: It does. Bannon's whole weapon is attacking the uniparty right,

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these shadowy figures who operate above the law.

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Speaker 1: And Epstein was the poster child for that.

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Speaker 2: The physical embodiment of that depraved, untouchable wing of the elite.

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So by trying to serve Epstein, Bannon completely undermines his

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own credibility to attack the very system he claims he's fighting.

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Speaker 1: And that's where the betrayal starts. For that follower, the

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one watching six hours a day, the slow dawning realization

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the general you're following is secretly taking advice from the

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enemy's monster in chief.

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Speaker 2: When you ask what Bannon hope to gain, you have

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to think bigger than just money, access, leverage information. Epstein

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had connections everywhere finance, politics, science, royalty, all over the globe.

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For a guy like Bannon running a media empire built

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on railing against globalists, that's an invaluable source.

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Speaker 1: So Epstein wasn't just a source. He was more like

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an index of the world secrets, a map of all

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the vulnerabilities.

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Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. By offering to

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help Epstein, Bannon might have gained access to untradable dirt

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on some of the most powerful people in the world.

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Speaker 1: Knowledge he could then weaponize for his own political projects.

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Speaker 2: It's machiavellian strategy at its darkest. The strategic asset Epstein

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represented was, in Bannon's mind, worth the moral price tag

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of associating with a child predator.

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Speaker 1: It's purely transactional.

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Speaker 2: Completely people are only viewed through the lens of their

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utility and the secrecy, the intense secrecy around all of this.

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It wasn't about protecting Epstein.

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Speaker 1: It was about protecting Bannon's brand.

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Speaker 2: Preserving that lucrative, morally righteous brand until he had squeezed

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every last drop of value out of the arrangement.

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Speaker 1: So the taped interview sort of establishes the secret nature

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of it all. But then we get to the emails,

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and the emails prove this wasn't some one off journalistic attempt.

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The sources describe it as a cozy relationship.

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Speaker 2: They were in continuous contact, just as the source puts it,

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you know, chatting about politics or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Which is just the casualness of it is what's so gross.

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You have what the source calls a massive grifter and

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a sexual predator, just shooting the breeze.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't just small talk. Epstein was clearly positioned

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to offer real input. Bannon was listening to his advice

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on of all things, the Trump cabinet in foreign policy.

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Speaker 1: That right there, the willingness to take high level political

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advice from a convicted criminal, that's where you see this

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was a real strategic engagement.

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Speaker 2: Epstein wasn't just some guy with gossip. He was being

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treated like a consultant.

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Speaker 1: And we have the direct quote. The sources cite this

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specific piece of advice Epstein offered Bannon about personnel on

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the Trump administration.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's read that quote and really break it down,

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because it's just specific.

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Speaker 1: Epstein wrote, quote getting rid of Powell much more important

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than Syria or Mattis. I guess Pompeo only one left

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and Minutichin is okay end quote.

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Speaker 2: Wow, okay, So just look at that priority list.

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Speaker 1: It's fascinating, isn't it. He's not focused on policy, He's

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focused on people. He's saying personnel changes are more important

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than a major foreign policy issue like Syria.

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Speaker 2: Deeply revealing, And look at the targets. Mattis Secretary of Defense.

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He was a known establishment figure, a clear opponent of

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Bannon's whole populist, anti interventionist worldview.

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Speaker 1: So targeting Mattis makes sense from that perspective. It aligns

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with Bannon's public rhetoric exactly.

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Speaker 2: It shows Epstein understood the internal power struggle happening in

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the administration, the Bannin faction versus the so called globalist faction.

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Speaker 1: What about the Powell reference? Colin Powell wasn't in the administration,

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then it's a bit unclear.

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Speaker 2: He could have been talking about another figure, or maybe

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just using Powell as a shorthand for a certain type

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of establishment Republican that needed to be purged, a Powell type,

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a Powell type exactly. But Honestly, the specific identity almost

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doesn't matter. The key takeaway is the priority he sets

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personnel over policy.

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Speaker 1: Control the people, and you control the outcome.

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Speaker 2: That's classic Washington power politics. It shows Epstein had an

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agenda focused on strategic internal reshuffling and he saw Bannon

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as the person who could help execute.

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Speaker 1: It, and Bannon was clearly taking it seriously enough to

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engage with it to save these emails. It wasn't just

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junk mail to him.

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Speaker 2: It cements the idea that they saw each other as

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strategic partners. They weren't just random contacts, They were thinking partners.

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Speaker 1: And this alliance went way beyond just cabinet picks.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. The sources confirmed Epstein was also giving Bannon

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advice on interviews.

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Speaker 1: And even specific talking points for an economic conference Bannon

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was scheduled to speak at.

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Speaker 2: And that detail is so crucial because it shows that

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this was a two way three to a mutually beneficial exchange.

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Speaker 1: Bannon wasn't just getting dirt from Epstein, he was getting content.

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He was getting framing.

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Speaker 2: And for a political figure like Bannon whose entire power

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base relies on having a credible populist narrative, taking economic

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talking points from Jeffrey Epstein is just It's astonishing.

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Speaker 1: Epstein was the ultimate Wall Street insider, the very system

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Bannon claims to be fighting against.

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Speaker 2: It suggests Bannon was more than willing to use Epstein's

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insider knowledge, regardless of the sources, obvious moral depravity, just

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to make himself sound more credible on economics.

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Speaker 1: It basically turns Bannon into a mouthpiece, a conduit for

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Epstein's financial and economic worldview.

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Speaker 2: It totally shifts the dynamic. He's no longer the anti

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elite firebrand speaking truth to power. He's a guy consulting

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with a predator who is the embodiment of that power,

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and then he's feeding that predator's talking points to his

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own audience.

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Speaker 1: It's strategic contamination.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And this pattern of collaboration from cabinet advice to

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economic messaging, it establishes the foundation. It shows how severe

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the moral compromise was, long before we even get to

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the most disturbing part. This makes what comes next so devastating.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so if the political coordination proved the professional partnership,

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then this next part of the source material, the communications

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about travel arrangements, this was the moral tripwire. This is

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what caused that profound sense of betrayal in his audience.

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Speaker 2: This is the moment it moves from a strategic alliance

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into just shared moral filth.

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Speaker 1: It's no longer just tacit approval of the person. It's

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active participation in the depravity that's associated with their crimes.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: So, the exchange starts off seemingly normal, if you can

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call it that. It's about charter jet arrangements. It seems

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Epstein was organizing or maybe even funding travel for Bannon.

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Speaker 2: Which is another layer. It shows a level of financial

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dependency or at least luxury services being provided.

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Speaker 1: Right. So Epstein starts it off with this little jab.

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He asks Bannon, quote, how does it feel to have

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the most highly paid travel agent in history?

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Speaker 2: It's a subtle brag, isn't it. Look at my wealth,

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Look how powerful I am, and you're benefiting from it?

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Speaker 1: And Bannon plays along. He thanks him and replies, quote,

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you are pretty good assistant.

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Speaker 2: Just a seemingly mundane, unprofessional little back and forth, but.

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Speaker 1: It's setting up the punchline, the single most chilling, damning

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line in this entire file.

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Speaker 2: Epstein's final response, ye quote, massages not included ah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the source material is crystal clear here there is

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zero ambiguity about what that means none.

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Speaker 2: It's a direct topical reference to the sexual assolvent trafficking

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of miners.

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Speaker 1: Epstein's whole horrific operation often involved girls being trafficked under

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the guise of providing massages.

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Speaker 2: So he is right there joking about his specific method

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of child sexual abuse. In a professional exchange with Steve Bannon,

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we need.

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Speaker 1: To talk about the psychology of a joke like that.

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It's what you'd call reference comedy, right.

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Speaker 2: And for a joke like that to even work, it

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requires two things. First, shared knowledge of the crime, which okay,

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the public had that.

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Speaker 1: But the second thing is the crucial one.

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Speaker 2: It requires a shared level of comfort, a shared acceptance

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of the premise of the crime as something they could

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be joked about.

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Speaker 1: The source material says it perfectly. You need to know

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that Epstein was a massive rapist of children to get

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the joke, and.

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Speaker 2: By not immediately recoiling, by continuing the relationship, Bannon was

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signaling that this vile reference was acceptable territory for them.

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It was okay within their private alliance.

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Speaker 1: That level of complicity is just it's intellectually staggering. To me,

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It's not just that he knew, it's that he was

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comfortable enough to participate in this sick, mutual, dark joke

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about it.

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Speaker 2: And the key point for his followers, the part they

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couldn't get past, was that Bannon evidently kept up the

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relationship even after this.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a deal breaker for him. He didn't say,

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you know what, we're done. He just kept going, which.

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Speaker 2: Tells you everything you need to know about his moral framework,

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or lack thereof.

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Speaker 1: His entire public identity is built on this moralistic outrage. Right,

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he's against the woke, against corruption, against the moral decay

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of society.

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Speaker 2: And yet privately he's bantering with the ultimate symbol of

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that decay, and he's accepting jokes that confirm the absolute

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worst parts of Epstein's known criminality.

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Speaker 1: It's a level of moral compartmentalization that is just. It's profound,

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where political gain completely erases any ethical boundaries.

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Speaker 2: I mean, think about it from a normal person's perspective.

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If a friend made a casual joke referencing child abuse,

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most decent people would just end the contact instantly, regardless

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of what you might gain from that person.

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Speaker 1: That boundary defines your character.

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Speaker 2: That's the litmus test. Epstein wasn't just being crude. He

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was testing Bannon's tolerance. He was seeing how far he could.

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Speaker 1: Go and when and continued the collaboration. He wasn't just

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tolerating the man anymore.

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Speaker 2: No, he was tolerating and participating in the dark moral

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culture that allowed those crimes to happen in the first place.

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Speaker 1: It shifts him from proximity to complicity, and that is.

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Speaker 2: What his followers, the ones who had invested their entire

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worldview and him, simply could not rationalize away. They could

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handle the political scandals, they could not handle the shared

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deprave joke.

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Speaker 1: So this inevitably brings us to the fallout, the audience revolt.

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Bannon survived so much legal battles, contempt of Congress, fraud charges,

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you name it. But the source material says the exposion

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of these emails genuinely marked a slight turn in allusiance.

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Speaker 2: And the significance here isn't about the number of people

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who turned, It's about who they were.

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Speaker 1: It came from his core, the deepest, most dedicated followers,

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the ones who had been unshakable.

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Speaker 2: The material sites a few specific reactions that really captured

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this sense of visceral anger and disillusionment.

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Speaker 1: The first tweet is it's almost painful to read because

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you can feel the weight of the dedication that's being

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thrown away. Yeah, the supporter tweeted, quote, so Steve advising

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Epstein how to sugarcoat his depravities. I've been watching Steve

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for six hours per day since twenty twenty. I'm so

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done with the Maggia whisperer. Hypocrisy is not only democrats disease.

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Speaker 2: Just stop on that detail for a second. Six hours

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per day since twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: It's unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: That's not a casual listener. That is a massive life

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structuring investment of time and loyalty. That person's entire day,

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their entire worldview was being shaped by Bannon's voice.

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Speaker 1: And then to realize that voice was working to sugarcoat depravity.

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Speaker 2: It shatters everything. It's not just that your leader is

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a hypocrite. It's that you realize you have been dedicating

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your life to a sham. The betrayal is existential.

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Speaker 1: You can just hear the exhaustion in that tweet. I'm

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so done. It's the sound of a true believer, realizing

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the cause they thought was pure was actually contaminated at

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its core.

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Speaker 2: And that title they used, the mega whisperer, that implies

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he's the smart one, the strategist, the one who articulates

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the populist rage and gives it an intellectual framework.

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Speaker 1: Right, He's supposed to be separate from the moral raw

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of the system.

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Speaker 2: But this secret collaboration with Epstein proves he wasn't fighting

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the swamp. He was just swimming in its darkest corner

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making deals. It completely destroys that framework.

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Speaker 1: Then there's the second quote. It's less thought out, more

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just raw anger hmmm quote. I'm a Trump voter and supporter,

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but Bannon, you're a fat pedtoe lover. You defending Epstein

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is disgraceful.

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Speaker 2: And what's interesting there is that the person's identity as

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a Trump voter and supporter wasn't enough to shield Bannon.

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Speaker 1: The political allegiance hit a wall.

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Speaker 2: It shows that for this person, the moral line regarding

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child exploitation was more fundamental than their political identity. The

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psychological shield just completely dropped.

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Speaker 1: So it begs the question why this his base tolerated

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so much else? Why was this the thing that finally

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crossed the line.

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Speaker 2: I think the source material name it says that supporters

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could rationalize talking to anyone. You know, keep your enemies closer.

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You have to talk to the devil to understand them.

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They're good at that.

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Speaker 1: They can justify the proximity exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but the source says the mentions of massages maybe

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crosses the line.

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Speaker 1: Because you can't rationalize a shared joke about it.

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Speaker 2: You can't. That joke required Bannon to actively participate, to

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accept the depravity. He wasn't an observer, he was in

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on it.

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Speaker 1: So it's about the cognitive dissonance finally breaking. A follower

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is willing to stretch their brain to the absolute limits

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to keep believing right.

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Speaker 2: They'll justify anything as necessary for the war.

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Speaker 1: But then they hit this dark, deep corner, as the

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source puts it, involving child abuse, and the moral reality

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is just it's undeniable. You can't spin it as a

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political necessity.

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Speaker 2: They finally saw that Bannon's moral landscape was shared with

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the predator, and for some that was the irreversible break.

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That's when they realized their general wasn't fighting the enemy.

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He was sitting down and having to drink with them.

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Speaker 1: And to really understand the depth of this moral failure,

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we have to contrast this private, casual depravity with his public,

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high stakes political fears, because Bannon is a faster at

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framing himself as a political martyr for his audience, and.

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Speaker 2: That contrast is so stark it shows you his hierarchy

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of values. His deepest public fear isn't moral failure, it's

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political defeat leading to prison.

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Speaker 1: Let's bring in that other context. The sources site Bannon's

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own public statements where he basically admits to his supporters

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that his political activities are potentially criminal.

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Speaker 2: Right, there's that direct quote where he told his audience quote,

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if we lose this midterm election, if we lose any

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other presidential elections, I'm going to prison.

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Speaker 1: And he didn't stop there. He said he's going to

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prison along with three four other guys that he's got

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to mention because they're criminal.

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Speaker 2: He just says it, because they're criminals.

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Speaker 1: So let's just stop it. Unpack that he is openly

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telling his audience that his personal freedom depends entirely on

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winning elections.

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Speaker 2: Which implies his actions are only legal or at least unpunished,

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as long as his side holds power exactly.

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Speaker 1: Now contrasts that very real, self serving fear of prison

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for things like political crimes, contempt fraud with his complete

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lack of concern about associating with a predator and joking

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about child abuse.

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Speaker 2: The contrast reveals his moral calculus, doesn't it. He sees

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political corruption as I don't know, a necessary evil, a

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part of the game. He fears the consequences, but there's

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no sense of moral guilt.

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Speaker 1: He frames it as noble persecution. They're coming after me

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because I'm fighting for you.

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Speaker 2: But he shows zero fear, zero hesitation about the profound

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ethical consequences of working with Epstein. His concern is strictly

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about self preservation from legal trouble. Moral integrity is it's

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not even on the list.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the whole spectacle of a political figure telling

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his base you have to vote for us because we're

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criminals is just absurd.

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Speaker 2: It normalizes it. It's a rhetorical move that says, yeah,

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we break the rules, but we're your rule breakers and

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you need to protect us.

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Speaker 1: It's asking for allegiance based on shared criminality.

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Speaker 2: And for a long time it worked until the Epstein connection,

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because that collaboration shatters the frame of righteous political warfare.

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Speaker 1: Working with Epstein isn't about fighting the deep state.

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Speaker 2: It's about getting into bed with the absolute worst part

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of the deep state for your own personal gain and

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that kind of moral stain. You just can't rationalize that

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as defending the.

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Speaker 1: Republic, which brings us back around to that powerful hypothetical

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test the source material uses. It's a great way to

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crystallize why the casualness of that Epstein exchange was so

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damaging to audience trust.

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Speaker 2: It really is the perfect lens. It's all about the

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comfort level with pure darkness.

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Speaker 1: So let's lay up the analogy. We'll put it directly

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to you, the listener. Imagine you found out that I

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was having an ongoing online check with say Bill Cosby,

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and we're talking to my upcoming book tour, and in

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the middle of it, Cosby messages me, quote, hey, I

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hear you're doing a club run. Make sure your own

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pills now. If you found out that, I just laughed

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it off, continued the conversation, kept up that relationship.

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Speaker 2: The immediate question is would you stop listening to this show?

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Speaker 1: Exactly my political views, my analysis, None of that would

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matter anymore, would it? No?

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Speaker 2: The fact that you were comfortable enough to exchange a vile,

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casual joke with a known serial predator about his specific

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method of assault would fundamentally change everyone's perception of your character.

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Speaker 1: The trust would be gone irreparably.

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Speaker 2: And that's the synthesis we have to draw back to Bannon.

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The issue wasn't just that he talked to a bad person.

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Journalists and strategists do that. The issue was the context

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and the response.

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Speaker 1: It was the comfort level.

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Speaker 2: It was a comfort level, the strategic coordination and the

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acceptance of a joke that revealed this shared, depraved understanding

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of Epstein's crimes.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't investigating the darkness. He was sharing a laugh

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with the monster inside it.

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Speaker 2: And that level of complicity is what finally pushed his

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most loyal followers right past their ethical breaking point.

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Speaker 1: So we've covered a lot of ground in this thrilling

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threads deep dive today.

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Speaker 2: We certainly have.

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Speaker 1: We started with that really shocking strategic contradiction, Steve Bannon,

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the anti elite warrior, secretly trying to rehabilitate the image

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of Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 2: Which was completely antithetical to his entire public brand.

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Speaker 1: And we established just how deep that collaboration went. Through

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the emails, Epstein wasn't just a source, he was a

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strategic consultant for Bannon, weighing in on tabinet members providing

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economic talking points.

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Speaker 2: He showed Bannon's willingness to trade moral integrity for what

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he saw as valuable strategic information.

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Speaker 1: And then finally we dissepted that moral trip wire, the

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casual chilling exchange about the Charter jet and that punchline

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massage is not included.

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Speaker 2: And that exchange provided the irrefutable proof for his followers,

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proof that he was willing to not just tolerate, but

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actively engage in dark humor that referenced child sexual will assault.

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And that's what shattered their allegiance.

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Speaker 1: The audience revolt that followed, even if it was just

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a small fraction, was so profound because it came from

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his core support.

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00:23:10,319 --> 00:23:13,559
Speaker 2: It proved that even the most deeply ingrained political loyalty

473
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has a breaking point, especially when it comes to the

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casual normalization of exploiting children.

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Speaker 1: I think the ultimate question this whole thing leaves us

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with is about the boundaries of our own support. Where

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do your personal ethics draw that final red line?

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00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 2: We saw how easily powerful people can rationalize these relationships,

479
00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:36,200
believing the ends justify any means. But we also saw

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how one specific, vile detail, a single joke, can shatter everything.

481
00:23:41,759 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: It leaves you with a thought that goes way beyond

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this one case. When you judge a public figure, what's

483
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,240
the compromise that's truly unforgivable? Is it their political failures

484
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:51,640
or is it their moral filth?

485
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: So we've laid out the evidence from this deep dive.

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Now we really want to hear from you.

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00:23:55,599 --> 00:23:59,799
Speaker 1: Considering everything we've talked about, the political coordination, that casual

488
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,799
or humor about sexual assault, what relationship do you believe

489
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,200
is the ultimate deal breaker when you're judging a public figure.

490
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:10,720
Is it their politics and their strategic goals or is

491
00:24:10,759 --> 00:24:12,599
it their private moral compromises?

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00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 2: Let us know what you think. Drop a comment and

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tell us where your stand is. We really want to

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hear your thoughts on this.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for taking this thrilling Threads deep dive with us.

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We'll see you next time.