WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:08.039 We're recording that. 2 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:10.720 We are still recording. You guys are still recording yours. 3 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:12.720 Right, Yeah, we're good. 4 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:18.359 So new news. Russell Brand of course is charged for raping. Mmm, 5 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:20.679 I want to jump into this space. 6 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:23.359 What space is that? The rape space? 7 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:27.120 No, No, that is I didn't say that. I did 8 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:28.239 not say that. I did not. 9 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:33.320 I meant Russell Brand's other skill, which is which is 10 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:34.200 wisdom teaching. 11 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:36.280 We need to dress in linen and like. 12 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:37.359 Bernie Man style. 13 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:40.159 Perfect. Okay, I'll talk to this fashion perfect. I love it. 14 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:41.640 It's nice. 15 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:45.759 It's the podcast and I'm back on it and I'm 16 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:46.280 not alone. 17 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:50.520 It's uh, hey, you guys too, Eric Victor Diego. And 18 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:51.200 here we are. 19 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:55.200 We are catching up house things. Where was I? I 20 00:00:55.399 --> 00:01:00.719 was dealing with some stuff. We'll call it medical stuff. 21 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:05.359 Religious religious issues. 22 00:01:05.640 --> 00:01:06.439 No one, No one. 23 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:08.680 Died, but yeah, it's nothing like that. 24 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:11.680 But I didn't know that no one was going to die, 25 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:15.439 So I had like a bit of an emotional crisis. 26 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.159 Makes sense, And that's why he had plastic surgery. 27 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:23.280 Yeah, I had a botched plastic surgery. But then they 28 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:26.480 just reverted my face. That control zed and now we're. 29 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:28.959 Back to normal. Yeah, and just took a bit of 30 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:29.840 time for real. 31 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:32.319 When I was I had to drive to the hospital 32 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:36.280 every day for like a month, and the crisis uncertainty. 33 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:40.519 This led me down a path that many people follow, 34 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:45.840 which is they discover religion. So I've discovered religion. I'm 35 00:01:45.879 --> 00:01:46.920 gonna go with Buddhism. 36 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.879 You already knew about it before, though, but you discovered. 37 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:54.359 It in a no. I knew intellectually, but I felt. 38 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:56.280 But you didn't know. You didn't need it. 39 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:01.719 I don't need it exactly. You can know something, Yeah, 40 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:04.799 you can know something but not have experienced it exactly. 41 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:07.599 Knowing that knowing how you need to start. 42 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:10.280 You need necessary medimum costs for religion to function. 43 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.680 It's like when you're on when you're on mushrooms and 44 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:16.479 you look at the stars when you're camping or something, 45 00:02:16.520 --> 00:02:20.439 and you're like, the stars are millions of light years away. 46 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:24.439 I'm looking back in time and this sounds like very 47 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:26.840 profound to you at the moment, But then if you 48 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:29.319 explain it to someone else the next day, they're like, yeah, 49 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:32.039 I know, I know that. Yeah, but it's not the 50 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:33.159 same as experiencing it. 51 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:36.199 True, something sounds really cool in the moment. 52 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:39.759 Yeah, but I've always liked last Samurai Zen and the 53 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:41.080 art of motorcycle maintenance. 54 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:43.199 So I needed I needed a religion. 55 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:47.080 So I just picked up the least offensive one. 56 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:49.479 Why Buddhism, can I ask, Well. 57 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.400 I read a bunch of Buddhist philosophy, which we've never 58 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:55.919 touched on this podcast because we're afraid it to be racist. 59 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:58.599 But I think we should just be We'll just do it. 60 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:01.400 We'll just be orientalists. It's a bad word. 61 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:05.080 I'm happy. I mean, I've already come out of the 62 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:08.639 closet as a pro China propagandist a long time ago, 63 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:10.080 so I'm already on board. 64 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:12.800 Call mean, I also I feel like, I mean, maybe 65 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:14.639 this is wrong, but like my feeling is that like 66 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:19.800 real Buddhists, by the nature of what Buddhism, Buddhism entails, 67 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.719 would not care about cultural appropriation. It just wouldn't make sense. 68 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:25.520 It would be impossible to care about that and be 69 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:27.719 a Buddhist. I think is that maybe that's wrong, but 70 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:30.599 that feels like that feels true from what I know 71 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:33.039 about the practice of Buddhism, because it's like that's such 72 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.120 a stupid thing to worry about. It's just like the 73 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:38.400 most it's like you're going to spend your time being outraged. 74 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:41.280 The differences in like Christian denominations where they actually just 75 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:47.280 fought intercontinental wars over them. Like there's like different denominations 76 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:50.639 quote unquote of Buddhism, but they don't. They all think 77 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:52.759 their own is right, but not to the point where 78 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:55.800 they have to kill anyone who believes different things. 79 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.759 There have been some fights in like Myanmar and stuff 80 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:00.919 between like the but that's only because the Buddhists, I think, 81 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:02.240 get attacked by other religions. 82 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:05.960 Maybe no, the Buddhists are killing the Muslims in Oh, 83 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.719 there's like the anti Buddhists or the anti Muslim my 84 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.560 end more. Yes, generally generally peaceful. 85 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:16.879 But uh yeah, every weird too. 86 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:19.959 Is that my imagination? Sorry to be bringing more audio 87 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:25.000 issues that. Maybe it's normal. Sorry, I mean my imagination 88 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:25.639 just ignormal. 89 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:26.360 Oh maybe not. 90 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:28.519 Okay, we're fixing there, we go. 91 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:29.720 Oh that's better. 92 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:33.160 Okay, Shit, it's okay, guys. Everything is nothing. 93 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:35.680 It's not like it's not like it's not like we 94 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:37.920 did a bunch of episodes without you somehow, and. 95 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:40.600 Yeah you came back, you come back, and now all 96 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:41.759 our settings are fucked. 97 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:43.160 This can't be at the incidents. 98 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:46.120 Oh yeah, yeah, I've gone out to the wilderness. 99 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.120 I've gone out to the spirit realm, and now I 100 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.800 come back and there's lights flickering. 101 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:54.079 The coffee maker wouldn't turn on. 102 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:57.079 I'm just fucking up electronics stuff because my my chie 103 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:01.120 is radiating out here. No, but before, just because just 104 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.560 because Buddhists say they're Buddhists doesn't mean that they're good people. 105 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:07.160 It doesn't mean that they follow the religion that they follow. 106 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:12.720 A person's declared religion is is. It doesn't necessarily mean 107 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.720 it's there truly what they believe in any sense. 108 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:19.680 Yeah, I've been looking into Buddhism a little bit from 109 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.720 art history perspective, because a lot of well, the ap 110 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:30.040 art history courses that American high school students might take 111 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:36.680 involves lots of works of art that are Buddhists, and 112 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:41.480 Buddhism is well. It's interesting because when you study all 113 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:46.759 the different kinds of art expressions from Judaism and Islam 114 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:50.920 and Christianity, and then you look at the Buddhist stuff 115 00:05:50.920 --> 00:05:54.319 like Tibetan Buddhism and how that stuff, you know, they 116 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:59.199 build these Buddhists that these Buddhist statues that represent the 117 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:03.040 original Buddha or the transcendent Buddha or and they have 118 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:06.319 all those hand positions that have all these different meanings, 119 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:10.000 like calling upon the earth as witness is one of them, 120 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:13.480 all that fun stuff. So I do have a bit. 121 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:17.439 I haven't been thinking philosophically about religion and Buddhism on 122 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:18.160 this level though. 123 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:23.160 So but what aspects of Curious Pills did you find awakening? 124 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.399 I mean just the basic practice stuff. But I want 125 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:30.759 to make a distinction because it's not like Buddhism the 126 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:35.000 religion that's particularly interesting. But I was looking at their philosophy, 127 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:38.480 and because I was no, because I know what Zen is, 128 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:42.879 I started with looking up Japanese philosophers and we've never 129 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:43.920 looked at these guys. 130 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:45.360 But you know, when you know the. 131 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:51.120 What is it the the stories that Heidegger was talking 132 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:54.120 to Japanese philosophers, maybe jack their shit. 133 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:54.879 We're not sure. 134 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:57.560 Well, he has that dialogue too, where it's a Japanese 135 00:06:57.560 --> 00:06:59.560 speaker and a German speaker going back and forth. 136 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:00.199 Yeah. 137 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:03.959 One of that guy that Heidiger was talking to is 138 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:07.839 a member of something called the Kyoto School, and they're 139 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:12.920 they're trained in like Hegel and husserl And stuff that 140 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:18.560 was popular in the thirties, forties, fifties, but they kind 141 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:22.680 of melded it with there with Japanese religion, which is 142 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:26.600 mostly like zen Zen Buddhism. So there they they they 143 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:32.040 sound like they're husserl And and Hegel in form, but 144 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:36.360 the themes are more Buddhists, like nothingness and the non self. 145 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:42.519 So like Heidiger another similarity. They were writing during while 146 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:43.519 while Japan. 147 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:46.040 Was raping, Nanking and all that stuff, So they do 148 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:47.079 get a little fasci. 149 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.839 They do get they do get spirit and destiny of 150 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:52.920 Japan against Vinity. 151 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.319 The German idealism. Oh my god. 152 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:59.759 Yeah, you just read Hegel for one hour and yeah, exactly. 153 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.399 The scene of German idealism is like, oh my god, 154 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.120 what was the sentence? The dreams of the dreams of 155 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:11.000 idealism creates monsters or something like that sounds. 156 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:13.519 Right, Yeah, I mean I think that. I don't know. 157 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:15.759 I mean I feel the dream of reason creates monsters, 158 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:17.560 the dreams of reason, I'm crazy monsters. 159 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:21.680 I feel like Japan had some feth fasci tendencies that 160 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:24.199 predate uh Hegel. 161 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:30.040 Shogun, another and another great Orientalist experience. 162 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:34.799 Yeah, there's The Shogun as also a good show. 163 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:38.720 This is the definition of orientalism is like, uh, In 164 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:42.720 the Last Samurai, Tom Cruise is depressed and he's an 165 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:47.000 alcoholic and he's feeling he's he's feeling guilt from massacring 166 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:52.200 Native Americans and he goes to the samurai village. If 167 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.320 you haven't seen it, he goes to the samurai village, 168 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:57.639 watches them do their painting and do their tea and 169 00:08:57.679 --> 00:09:00.399 their archery and swordsmanship and all this stuff, and he 170 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:04.120 fixes his own life problems. It just requires the sacrifice 171 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:07.799 of every samurai to make the white man happy with himself. 172 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.440 Again, I ever saw that Tom Cruise. 173 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:17.559 That's that's so he was all worth that. 174 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.240 Yeah, the Orientals all have to die so that one 175 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:26.039 white man can stop drinking. This is this is like 176 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.799 two thousand and four movie. It's not it's not that old. 177 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.559 And then they have Showgun is kind of the same, 178 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:35.559 but not as as overt. 179 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:37.759 Yeah, it's a similar storyline. And well, I was thinking 180 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:40.960 about a movie that's somewhat recent that featured Japan and 181 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:44.799 religion was Silence the But that doesn't really cover But 182 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:46.639 that was a good one. I think it's Scorsese And 183 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:50.799 it's like about the about the priests in Japan, about 184 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.480 the expulsion of the of the Christians. 185 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:59.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that that period Christians they were getting 186 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:02.679 a bit annoying, and Japan wanted to I guess that 187 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:07.960 was medieval Japan wanted to close off its borders going 188 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.279 into the Tokugawa period. 189 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:13.080 Was that like nineteenth century or something? 190 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.080 No, No, this would have been the seventeenth sixteenth, seventeenth sixteenth. 191 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:21.360 Yeah, isn't that when the shogun moved off a shogun 192 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:22.200 show takes place. 193 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:26.200 Yeah, because shogun, because the shogun around then Tokugawa took over. 194 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:27.840 He like he was the one who kind of was like, 195 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:29.440 all are you Christians? Like we got to stop this. 196 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:32.000 You guys are wicked annoying, Like let's let's let's get. 197 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:39.240 What spoiler oops, your history spoiler treat of where Spain 198 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:42.559 and Portugal divided the world between the two of them said, 199 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:44.039 everything on this side it belongs to me. 200 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:46.000 Everything on that side belongs to you. But then when 201 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:48.399 they get to Japan, they get complicated, and since they're 202 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:51.159 both Christian in a way, it gets like very very messy. 203 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:54.480 But like can I direct the conversation in a direction? 204 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:57.519 Do you mind like stating your definition of religion? 205 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:02.960 Well, I put out to two solo episodes on just 206 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:07.279 that question, and there's more to come. But religion I 207 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:09.919 combined we read Durkhim. I think it was like last 208 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.360 summer already, this stuck in my craw and it never left. 209 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:18.399 But for Dirkhime, religion is about divisions. And these divisions 210 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.279 divide up space, they divide up time. But religion always 211 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:27.320 has a very specific use case, like a physical material, 212 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:30.600 ordinary ordinary need that it solves it. 213 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.759 It's a problem solver. It's a social machine that solves 214 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:34.480 these problems. 215 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:37.840 And if you combine this with systems theory, then you 216 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:41.840 have then you can completely get rid of any universalizing 217 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:47.720 tendency that religions have. Like this thing that I believe 218 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:50.399 in is true, It's always been true, it will always 219 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:51.919 be true in the future. You can just get rid 220 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.159 of that if you understand religion to be a social 221 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:00.279 problem solver, and then you can also divide between good 222 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:03.879 and bad religion, because good religion is stuff that still 223 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:08.960 solves problems. My favorite example is standing in line. It's 224 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:11.639 not in your best interest to stand in line. If 225 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:13.840 you're like big, you could push an old lady out 226 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:15.519 of the way, you could get out of the store 227 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:19.240 way quicker. But yet everyone still stands in line. This 228 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:20.080 is a ritual. 229 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:21.679 It's not going anywhere. 230 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:26.639 It's not in everyone's best interest as individuals, but it's 231 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.440 in the society, the social best interest of the group. 232 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.440 And what you guys are talking about the other week 233 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:38.480 about group psychology and Freud's group psychology. I mean I was, 234 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:40.320 I was humming along, I was nodding alone. 235 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:43.120 Yeah, on lineups. I always remember whenever I go take 236 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:46.000 like the VA rail train when I go back to 237 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:48.799 Ottawa or when I'm coming back. I don't know if 238 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:50.360 you guys have taken via rail, but I don't know. 239 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:52.120 This is kind of an aside, but people always line 240 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:55.000 up and I'm like, and I'm always like waiting, and 241 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:57.159 I'm always just like, but we all have assigned seats, 242 00:12:57.360 --> 00:12:59.240 Like why are you guys lining up and just standing 243 00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:02.120 for I'm just gonna sit down. I'm gonna sit over here. 244 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:04.279 And it's like being in line doesn't get you any 245 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:06.159 benefit because like you you have your seat. It's like, 246 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:09.320 I guess you'll get to your seat, like maybe a 247 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:11.159 minute or two earlier if you're like at the front 248 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.440 of the line anyway. Funny, like that's an example of 249 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:15.559 group psychology where like I feel like if you just 250 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:17.000 think about it for two seconds, you're like, I'm just 251 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:18.519 gonna fucking sit down. What the hell is the point 252 00:13:18.519 --> 00:13:18.720 of this? 253 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:21.480 On the airplane, you line up because you want to 254 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:26.039 have over yes or overhead storage. 255 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:27.600 But is that true on the train too, or is 256 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:28.159 it just competing? 257 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.120 I mean the train, there's way more space. It doesn't 258 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:32.200 matter on the train. Like on the train, it doesn't 259 00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:35.320 like there's no risk of like you missing out on anything. Yeah. 260 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.360 There's this friend of mine that is a PhD in's aesthetics, 261 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.200 and he's always said he has this running joke about 262 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:45.879 creating a perfect society based on a shopping card shopping 263 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:50.480 card return meritocracy. So we're gonna redesign society based on 264 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.600 who returns the shopping cards because he says there's absolutely 265 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:56.399 no incentive to do that. So you can judge a 266 00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:59.360 person by by how often does he return it, how 267 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:02.000 properly he returns the shopping car to the proper space. 268 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:05.000 And I think it's it's very coincidental to what Pills 269 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.080 is trying to say, So, that's why I wanted to 270 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.720 start with the definition of religion. We need the religion 271 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:11.639 for people to return the cars to their places. 272 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:15.679 Yes, returning your car is a religious activity because it's 273 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:17.720 not in your it's not in your self interest, it's 274 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:19.879 not in your best interest, it takes up your time. 275 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:22.200 Yet you do it anyway. 276 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:24.120 You don't get punishment if you don't do it, and 277 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:25.480 you don't get a reward if you do it. 278 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:28.639 Create a religion and then say these are the rituals 279 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:31.279 you must perform to express. 280 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:33.039 Your belief in this religion. 281 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.159 One of them is returning shopping carts. The other one 282 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:37.840 is lining up for the train. 283 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:42.039 So now now my second question, Pills, So what's this 284 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:44.840 definition of religion by like they saying, Okay, so there's 285 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.840 a there's a societal necessity that in a way necessitates, 286 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:52.480 sorry for the necessitates religion as the solution for this 287 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:55.879 societal problem. But it also emerges out of what you 288 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:59.840 said is material needs. So either we have a problem 289 00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:03.200 or a conflict or something to be solved. And how 290 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.840 does that notion differentiate from, for example, from what we 291 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:08.840 read from Auto Serrian ideology. 292 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:11.279 I think I even said this when we read it. 293 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:17.000 This is basically just what religion is ideology ideology, but 294 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:21.759 not ideology in just the like Marxist ideology is bad, 295 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.000 and Marx didn't really say that, but Marxist Marxists tend 296 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:29.759 to say that, like ideology Twitter Marxists or even some 297 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:34.720 academic Marxist But most ideology is not capitalist ideology. 298 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:38.519 It's just the ideology that gets keeps society. 299 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:40.960 Functioning on a data day level, like returning the shopping 300 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:42.159 cart mm hmm. 301 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:44.879 And then like when we get. 302 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:49.240 To religion with like Jesus is his own dad, and 303 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.840 he comes from outer space to die and then go 304 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.840 back to outer space, and then you have like the 305 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:59.759 medieval scholastics trying to deal with the substance, the substance 306 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.919 distinction of like oh yeah, well Jesus and his father 307 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:06.279 they're the same substance, but they're different modes of the 308 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:11.080 same substance and all this stuff. The reason Buddhism is 309 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.480 so superior is it's kind of an anti religious religion, 310 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.519 like you don't have to really, you don't really have 311 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.200 to do anything. So we've been talking about this about 312 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:25.600 Japanese Buddhism, but the best thing that I discovered is 313 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:32.159 this one guy Indian Indian Buddhist, like two thousand years ago, 314 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.159 I want to say second century, but his name is 315 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.159 Nagarjina And it's hard to read this stuff. But also 316 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:46.080 when I was in my crisis, like emotionally distraught sense, 317 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:51.159 the style is much like we read ancient Greeks, like 318 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:55.200 the Pyrrhonists or the Naxe Mender, where it's poetic, religious 319 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:59.600 and philosophy before there was any distinction between all those things. 320 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:05.759 Bringing those things together on a personal level really changed 321 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:10.680 my attitude towards what we're calling philosophy, because if if 322 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.799 this is true about religion and philosophy, then what we 323 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:17.440 call religion today is wrong because it doesn't it doesn't 324 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:20.000 matter at all what we call philosophy in so far 325 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:25.359 as it's like doing truth tables in your university office. 326 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:26.839 Like that doesn't it just doesn't matter. 327 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:31.920 Yeah, not even not even wrong, just socially useful. 328 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:33.400 Yeah. 329 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:38.680 So I've been writing poetry and and doing gardening in 330 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:40.599 a in a new way, and is that in the 331 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:45.160 art of motorcycle maintenance way, And it feels different. It 332 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:49.000 feels like I love something again instead of trying to Wow, 333 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:50.440 trying to solve problems. 334 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.359 So is that like, but like, it's interesting that it's 335 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.599 like returning to practice. I guess there's like maybe it's 336 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:01.079 useful to think about some kind of distinction between theory 337 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:03.119 and practice because it's like the things that you just 338 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.279 mentioned are are like you know, you're pursuing. So I 339 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:08.559 guess my question this is a bit jumbled, but I'm wondering. 340 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:11.480 It's like, do you think that that insight that you 341 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.720 had is what allowed you to just like be like, hey, 342 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:15.960 I'm just gonna do these things right? Or was it 343 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.319 the doing those things that then made you be like 344 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:20.079 have the insight? You know what I mean. 345 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:23.839 So it's like, oh, yeah, okay, I had I had 346 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:28.680 a religious experience, I had a spiritual experience. And don't worry, 347 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:31.279 I'm a materialist. Do you go, don't don't get your 348 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:32.079 panties at a bunch. 349 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:36.200 I haven't said, I haven't set my sentence yet. 350 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.640 No, this is definitely material conditions because I. 351 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:44.240 Why, why why take away the fun from me? Biels? 352 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.680 Why would you do that? Man? I've so much, don't 353 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:47.319 make me hate you. 354 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.319 The uncertainty caused me to do something that was completely 355 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:55.720 out of character. But the religious experience, okay, the spiritual experience, 356 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:00.440 I should say, a revelation even there's always happens in 357 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.720 a crisis. You don't need a religious experience when everything's 358 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.240 going going well. You don't need religion at all. When 359 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.400 everything's going well. Religion is like the backstop that prevents 360 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.119 society from collapsing in bad times, which is how it gets. 361 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:15.359 So warped over time. 362 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:18.920 But you know, what I experienced was like this do 363 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.960 you do You know when you stare at a word 364 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.799 for too long, like a single word, and then the 365 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:29.720 letters start to disintegrate, the meaning goes away. Yeah, Like 366 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:31.960 this happens to graphic designers all the time because you're 367 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:34.119 looking at a word and you change the font and 368 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:39.680 then it just it looks like shapes. Mean this dispelling 369 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:43.200 of an illusion. This is what happened to me, but 370 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:45.599 not with a single word. It was like I was 371 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:54.359 meditating ish but suddenly language just became meaningless, like all 372 00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.720 of it. It was like I could see it disintegrating, 373 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:02.279 just like the shape of a letter integrams. And this 374 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:05.519 is why, you know, when you're talking about the drug experience, 375 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:09.920 you can't really explain why this is significant unless you're 376 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:15.559 experiencing it. So this is the disconnection from that I've 377 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.839 been speaking about for five years. In here, it's structural linguistics. 378 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.400 The sion eclipses the reality. Metaphors are the basic unit 379 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.880 of meeting, not references. Language is differential. I've said all this, 380 00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:29.000 and I know all of this, and I've known it 381 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:34.240 the whole time, but at a body level, feeling like, yeah, 382 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:39.319 that's what this spiritual experience was, was suddenly seeing the 383 00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:44.160 illusion as illusion, Like I felt like I felt like 384 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:47.880 Neo and the matrix when the thing all turns to code. 385 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:52.400 And then that's when I went to Buddhism Buddhist philosophy 386 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.640 after that to try to figure out this disintegration, because 387 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:59.039 what I've known about it already is like, in this 388 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:04.319 meditative state, you enter only a single moment at a 389 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.119 single time. You forget the past, you forget the future, 390 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:13.240 you disintegrate the suffering really and and focus on one thing. 391 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:17.720 But were you meditating purposely, Like yeah, yeah, okay, so 392 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:20.279 you were, but like not necessarily based on Buddhism. It's 393 00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:21.559 just kind of like a more uh. 394 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.640 No, I kind of do that all generally all the time, 395 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:29.160 Like Okay, okay, fifteen minutes, half an hour a day. 396 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:30.680 But I didn't I didn't know that. 397 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:31.039 Cool. 398 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:33.640 It's for anxiety generally, like functionally. 399 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:36.599 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't know that. Cool. 400 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:38.279 I think lots of people do that. 401 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:41.440