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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from

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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty.

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<v Speaker 2>Just in case you didn't know, Beyonce's Texas Holdham song

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<v Speaker 2>which led off her Cowboy Carter country album, and you

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<v Speaker 2>know that Beyonce's country offering was controversial for a number

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<v Speaker 2>of reasons.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure why.

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<v Speaker 2>It was controversial for some because those who were in

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<v Speaker 2>the country music genre, some expressed resistance that they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>think it was a real country album, or that Beyonce

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't a real country artist. They call that gatekeeping, and

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<v Speaker 2>there was resistance from some within the country music genre.

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<v Speaker 2>It received a lot of country music airplay. I'll get

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<v Speaker 2>to that in a moment. But the reason why I'm

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<v Speaker 2>discussing it or mentioning it is because the news is

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<v Speaker 2>that Beyonce's Cowboy Carter received zero CMA's nominations Country Music

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<v Speaker 2>Awards zero. This to me is not surprising at all,

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<v Speaker 2>and to a person who doesn't know how the music

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<v Speaker 2>industry works, it may surprise them.

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<v Speaker 3>They may say, well, that's so unfair, or did you

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<v Speaker 3>see how.

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<v Speaker 2>Much radio airplay issues it was number one on all

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<v Speaker 2>these country stations. Well, let me just disabuse you of

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<v Speaker 2>that notion and tell you how it works. Even today,

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<v Speaker 2>when a song goes number one on your favorite station,

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<v Speaker 2>it's usually because the record company behind the song is

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<v Speaker 2>providing a lot of incentives, let me put it that way,

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<v Speaker 2>putting a lot of support behind the record. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>you calling the radio station. It's about the record company

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<v Speaker 2>doing special prize giveaways with radio stations and prize flyaways,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, being the twentieth caller will fly you and

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<v Speaker 2>a guest.

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<v Speaker 3>To see Beyonce and Las Vegas.

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<v Speaker 2>YadA, yeah, yeah, blah blah blah, where you do these

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<v Speaker 2>types of com tests with the radio station, or you

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<v Speaker 2>promise a Beyonce interview, and then the radio station will

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<v Speaker 2>play the Beyonce song a whole hell of a lot

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<v Speaker 2>in promotion of the contest, the flyway, the giveaway, and

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<v Speaker 2>so the radio station gets something out of playing it,

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<v Speaker 2>and the artist gets something out of the radio station

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<v Speaker 2>playing it, which means it's not organic, That's what I'm

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<v Speaker 2>getting at. And so all this radio airplay of this

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<v Speaker 2>Cowboy Carter album when it comes to terrestrial music radio station,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm not talking about streaming.

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<v Speaker 3>It had to do with that.

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<v Speaker 2>Not those who were country music listeners in the respective

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<v Speaker 2>markets calling in and wanting to hear it. I mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>that because when you have an actual award show like

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<v Speaker 2>the CMAS, the people who vote on them are the

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<v Speaker 2>actual country artists, the music piers is not unlike the Grammys,

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm not mistaken, And so if you don't have

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<v Speaker 2>the support of the actual industry, the country industry, you

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<v Speaker 2>are not going to be recognized by the CMAS. And

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<v Speaker 2>I say this as someone who worked for the Grammys

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<v Speaker 2>many years ago. But some things have not changed in

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<v Speaker 2>the intervening years, and sometimes people forget maybe not you,

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<v Speaker 2>but sometimes people forget that the nominations, I should say,

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<v Speaker 2>most of these award shows are about the record companies

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<v Speaker 2>throwing their weight around. The record companies usually get to

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<v Speaker 2>decide who is going to be. When I say the

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<v Speaker 2>record companies, you have these voting members who are they

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<v Speaker 2>have allegiances, they have connections to record companies. Like when

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<v Speaker 2>I was working at the Grammys, you'd have people who

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<v Speaker 2>vote for everyone who is on the same label as

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<v Speaker 2>him or her, or they vote for all of their friends.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not necessarily a recognition of the best music or

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<v Speaker 2>the most popular art or the most sales. It was

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<v Speaker 2>all about relationships and allegiances and things of that nature.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was working at the Grammys, we'd have people

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<v Speaker 2>nominated every single year, whether they had a BS album

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<v Speaker 2>or not. Like, for example, if Mariah Carey came out

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<v Speaker 2>with something, she automatically was going to be nominated in

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<v Speaker 2>any category they put her in.

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<v Speaker 3>There were times where she.

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<v Speaker 2>Was nominated for music that hadn't even hit the radio airwaves.

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<v Speaker 2>It was released in stores and so eligible to be nominated,

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<v Speaker 2>but people just automatically voted for it the academy members

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<v Speaker 2>because of relationships and allegiances, and we were working the

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<v Speaker 2>Grammar's like that song no one's even heard it yet,

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't even played on the radio. We're talking about pre internet,

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<v Speaker 2>so the only way that you could hear music back

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<v Speaker 2>then was on the radio. That's how these awards shows

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<v Speaker 2>likely work. Like for example, the CMA Awards, the nominees

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<v Speaker 2>and winners are determined by more than six thousand industry

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<v Speaker 2>professional members of the Country Music Association. These are voting

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<v Speaker 2>members within the Country Music Association. Their relationships, their allegiances,

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<v Speaker 2>and they don't for the most part, include Beyonce, she

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<v Speaker 2>is an outsider musically. It's not saying that her music

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<v Speaker 2>is bad. It's not saying that whether we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>have this conversation about whether it was country enough, is

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<v Speaker 2>that she is a country music outsider.

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<v Speaker 3>It may not be fair, but it's a fact.

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<v Speaker 2>And you can say, well, what about all the artists

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<v Speaker 2>who go from pop to rap and they end up

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<v Speaker 2>with with nominations or Grammy Awards. Yeah, it does happen

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<v Speaker 2>in that time. Sometimes you have pop artists and they'll

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<v Speaker 2>do a hip hop song and they'll end up with

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<v Speaker 2>nomination or even a Grammy Award because hip hop doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>gatekeep like that. Country music historically has been very much

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<v Speaker 2>about keeping outsiders out. This did not surprise me at all,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's somehow controversial.

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<v Speaker 4>It's interesting because the very first thing that I saw

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<v Speaker 4>that I said to shake my head at is the

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<v Speaker 4>cries of racism and that they were hating on her

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<v Speaker 4>because she was black. And I'm like, if you all

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<v Speaker 4>knew how the award and eligibility process worked, you would

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<v Speaker 4>know for a fact that that's further than the truth,

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<v Speaker 4>and that is how you know, Like the song Tipsy

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<v Speaker 4>and I cannot remember the young man's name, but he

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<v Speaker 4>is a black artist. His song is eligible because his

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<v Speaker 4>song is an actual country record by an artist who

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<v Speaker 4>professes himself to be a country artist off the gate

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<v Speaker 4>and his record is in there. So that right there

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<v Speaker 4>says well, that argument now falls flat on its face.

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<v Speaker 4>So that's the thing that I think threw me the

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<v Speaker 4>most this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of times it's easier to reach

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<v Speaker 2>for those things. Some things are racist, not all things

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<v Speaker 2>are racist. This is one of those things which is

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<v Speaker 2>definitely not racist. This is one of those things where

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<v Speaker 2>it's not about race. You just have to have a

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<v Speaker 2>wider understanding of how country music works.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not disregarding the racist history of country music.

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<v Speaker 3>That should not be pushed aside.

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<v Speaker 2>But as far as Beyonce expecting as a musical outsider

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<v Speaker 2>to be a CMA nominee or winner when she hasn't

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<v Speaker 2>had any time or history in the genre, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>care if she's from Texas and grew up loving country music. Musically,

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<v Speaker 2>she is an outsider that it's not reasonable to expect

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<v Speaker 2>that she's going to be embraced by the country music

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<v Speaker 2>professionals and industry insiders who actually vote. Yeah, And I've

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<v Speaker 2>seen it with other artists and different genres. And I

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<v Speaker 2>would think that if people took the time to actually

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<v Speaker 2>learn how these award shows are voted on, then they'll

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<v Speaker 2>better understand. Like for example, Little nas X he won

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<v Speaker 2>at the CMAS, so it's not about excluding someone of

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<v Speaker 2>them being black. But Lil naz X, I think was

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<v Speaker 2>more available and did country music interviews. He did a

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<v Speaker 2>country music remix, and it was one of those things

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<v Speaker 2>where it wasn't like the label was trying to force

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<v Speaker 2>everything Little nas X on the country music industry.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just one song.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, when he came out, his entry into the music

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<v Speaker 4>game was through a country collab with That's right.

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<v Speaker 3>I forgot about the race. Sorry, that's right.

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<v Speaker 4>So that was his introduction and everyone thought, how is

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<v Speaker 4>this guy a contrust And he is the one that

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<v Speaker 4>came out later and said, this was just a form

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<v Speaker 4>of music that I grew up with and I appreciate,

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<v Speaker 4>but I am an artist of all music. And I

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<v Speaker 4>think he called backlash because people wrongly believed him to

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<v Speaker 4>be a country artist, when in fact he said, no,

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<v Speaker 4>I am a pop artist and that is something that's

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<v Speaker 4>true to my heart.

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<v Speaker 2>And also I forgot the whole Billy Ray Cyrus connection

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<v Speaker 2>made that acceptance a little bit easier. I know people

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<v Speaker 2>had some a bad taste in her mouth about the

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<v Speaker 2>way Beyonce went about it is it was almost a gimmick.

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<v Speaker 2>So she could get Album of the Year, and she

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<v Speaker 2>still may get Album of the Year when the Grammys

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<v Speaker 2>roll around. But as far as the Cmas go, if

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<v Speaker 2>you know how country music works, they're not into gimmicks

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<v Speaker 2>like that. You're not going to get industry love like that.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was not surprised in the least.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from

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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't speak for Twilets Sharp, I can't speak for

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<v Speaker 2>Mark Ronner, who are my contemporaries in age. But I

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<v Speaker 2>was a kid who grew up on Johnny Carson. I

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<v Speaker 2>grew up on late night television, and honestly, when people

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<v Speaker 2>talk about David Letterman, no disrespect. I was a Johnny

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<v Speaker 2>Carson kid, the great Karnak. That to me was the

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<v Speaker 2>golden age of late night television. That time is gone.

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<v Speaker 2>Late night television as we once knew it is not

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<v Speaker 2>as popular. Some may say it got too political in

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<v Speaker 2>its monologues.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe maybe not.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't subscribe to that, but that's what people want

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<v Speaker 2>to often attribute it to. I think it's just an

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<v Speaker 2>evolution of how we consume entertainment, and the idea of

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<v Speaker 2>appointment watching a late night variety show or a comedic

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<v Speaker 2>bit show at eleven o'clock eleven thirty is not what

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<v Speaker 2>people do anymore. I mentioned that because NBC is scaling

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<v Speaker 2>back on The Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon. They're cutting

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<v Speaker 2>it from five nights to four nights a week, and

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<v Speaker 2>then they're going to air reruns on Friday nights. What

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<v Speaker 2>does that tell you? Friday night number one is not

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<v Speaker 2>a big TV night. It used to be not anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Late night television used to be a really really big thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It used to be not anymore. It used to be

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<v Speaker 2>where late night television would destroy cable. Late night television

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<v Speaker 2>not anymore. It's Great Gutfeld, who has a larger viewership

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<v Speaker 2>than most, if not all, I think of the late

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<v Speaker 2>night television host When I say late night, I'm talking

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<v Speaker 2>about ABC's Jimmy Kimmel Live, CBS is The Late Night

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<v Speaker 2>Show with Stephen Colbert, and Comedy Central's The Daily Show.

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<v Speaker 2>But all of those shows that I just told you about.

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<v Speaker 2>They're also only taping four shows per week. Late Night

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<v Speaker 2>with Seth Myers has only been airing four original episodes weekly,

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<v Speaker 2>so they're all contracting. It's not I wouldn't say it's

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily in economics, saying, yes, it's economics within studio budgets,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's not economics because of the economy. I just

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<v Speaker 2>think there's a dwindling market and audience for this type

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<v Speaker 2>of entertainment. And again, I talk about Twala and Mark,

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<v Speaker 2>how we are age contemporaries. When we were grown up,

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<v Speaker 2>Once upon a time, it used to be the variety show.

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<v Speaker 2>Flip Wilson had a variety show laughing. You know, there

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<v Speaker 2>was so many, so many people who had variety shows.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a big thing in the nineteen seventies until

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't a thing. And you could say, well, the

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<v Speaker 2>Tonight Show has been on for decades and decades. Yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>but things are cyclical and things ebb and flow. There

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<v Speaker 2>was a time in which game shows were a huge

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<v Speaker 2>deal in the nineteen seventies. They weren't so much in

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<v Speaker 2>the eighties and nineties, and now they're kind of coming back,

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<v Speaker 2>but not exactly the same way. And this is how

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<v Speaker 2>I think late night television is going through one of

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<v Speaker 2>those evolutions. I don't know if we'll have late night

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<v Speaker 2>TV as we once knew it by the end of

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<v Speaker 2>this decade.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not trying to be fatalistic.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying you should be able to read the

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<v Speaker 2>handwriting on the walls.

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<v Speaker 3>The space is not growing, it's actually contracting.

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<v Speaker 4>I think after Johnny Carson retired, we all kind of

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<v Speaker 4>followed Leno for a while, and it took us a

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<v Speaker 4>minute to get on board with Leno. But when Leno

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<v Speaker 4>went off the air, for me, that was the end

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<v Speaker 4>of my need or reason to watch late night television

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<v Speaker 4>me too.

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<v Speaker 3>That was it.

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<v Speaker 4>And I'm sorry, no no hit on anyone, but it

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<v Speaker 4>was just and I loved our Sinio, but there was

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<v Speaker 4>something about the Tonight Show and the legacy that he

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<v Speaker 4>even passed along and sang sin and blessed Lino to

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<v Speaker 4>carry on. And I thought what Lino did was new

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<v Speaker 4>and vibrant, and he carried it as long as people were.

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<v Speaker 4>But when he signed off, I'm like, there's no because

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<v Speaker 4>I used to look at interviews that he would have

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<v Speaker 4>on guests and say, now I want to go see

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<v Speaker 4>that movie this weekend or I want to see the show.

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<v Speaker 4>It kind of was the temperature gauge on entertainment for me.

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<v Speaker 4>And after he signed off, I was like, I'm okay, okay, that.

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<v Speaker 2>Was ten years ago that Jay Lintel left, and he

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<v Speaker 2>might be listening right now, longtime CAFI listener. He's actually

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<v Speaker 2>been on the show before, and Arsenio listens to KFI

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<v Speaker 2>a lot, and he may be listening as well. But Arcinio,

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<v Speaker 2>his first foray into late night television was a good

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years ago, and he changed the game back then.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think the game has changed since then.

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<v Speaker 2>And the whole idea of doing a late night television

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<v Speaker 2>show in the vein of the nineteen's, sixties, seventies, eighties,

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<v Speaker 2>and nineties, I don't know if it has a place

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<v Speaker 2>today because people aren't watching broadcast television. That's number one,

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<v Speaker 2>late night broadcast television number two, and I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>a very niche type of television.

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<v Speaker 5>You're going to say, Mark, Well, I don't think anybody

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<v Speaker 5>could ever replace Johnny Carson. First of all, everybody our

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<v Speaker 5>age kind of wished Johnny was our dad, right, But

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<v Speaker 5>the thing about Johnny was that he was a funny,

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<v Speaker 5>genuinely a funny, skilled comedian, but also cool enough to

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<v Speaker 5>stand up against not just anybody in the rat pack,

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<v Speaker 5>but the whole rat pack. He was the whole pack,

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<v Speaker 5>and you're not going to find that again. So you

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<v Speaker 5>guys are talking about Letterman, who is also, I believe,

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<v Speaker 5>a skilled comedian who had really honed his craft. But

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<v Speaker 5>a lot of people, including me, went to Letterman. I

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<v Speaker 5>still religiously watch Colbert and Myers and Jimmy Kimmel at

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<v Speaker 5>least they're monologues every single night when I go home

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<v Speaker 5>from work, because whether or not you like or dislike

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<v Speaker 5>any of them particularly, they're absolutely a barometer for pop

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<v Speaker 5>culture and current events.

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<v Speaker 3>They are.

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<v Speaker 2>But also going back to watching broadcast television, the most

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<v Speaker 2>I've watched of Jimmy Fallon is on YouTube, where they'll

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<v Speaker 2>do these music pieces where they'll bring in the whole

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<v Speaker 2>band and they'll use a kazoo.

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<v Speaker 5>I forgot what it's called. Yeah, And I will admit

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<v Speaker 5>that I'm not a Fallon watcher. Of the major talk

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<v Speaker 5>show hosts. He seems to be like the least edgy one,

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<v Speaker 5>and I've heard people who have worked with him say, well,

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<v Speaker 5>he wants everybody to love him, and that's you can't

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<v Speaker 5>be that in late night televion. No, Johnny didn't care

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<v Speaker 5>about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but again, it is a different world in many

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<v Speaker 2>respects how we consume media entertainment, what actually works in

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<v Speaker 2>broadcast television, which I think is a declining industry. We

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<v Speaker 2>look at who's winning Emmys, you know, Immy's just passed

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<v Speaker 2>you looking at the proliferation of streaming services and how

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<v Speaker 2>they've dominated television as we know it. It's not late

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<v Speaker 2>night television what we used to watch decades ago.

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<v Speaker 5>It used to be much more like a cocktail party.

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<v Speaker 5>And if you go back and watch any of these

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<v Speaker 5>old Tonight shows, which I'll admit that I do from

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<v Speaker 5>time to time, there's a lot on YouTube. They were

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<v Speaker 5>very unplanned, they were very spontaneous. They had awkward moments.

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<v Speaker 5>Everything now moves right along. There've been pre interviews, everything

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<v Speaker 5>is agreed on beforehand, and it was a whole different

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<v Speaker 5>scene altogether, in addition to how fragmented all the media

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<v Speaker 5>is today.

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<v Speaker 3>But that was our.

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<v Speaker 2>Reality TV of the day. Because it was unscripted, it

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<v Speaker 2>was much more edgy. You had different types of conversations

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<v Speaker 2>that you wouldn't have in daytime TV or regular broadcast TV.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not edgy anymore because it's just broadcast TV and

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<v Speaker 2>you're competing with streaming.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, and don't leave Dick Cavit out of that either.

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<v Speaker 5>Here that's not at all unbelievable interviews and some immortal

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<v Speaker 5>moments on his show. But you're not going to get

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<v Speaker 5>a show now on late night where say, Shelley Winters

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<v Speaker 5>pours a drink over all over Reed's head, or they

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<v Speaker 5>give Uri Geller a chance to bend a spoon and

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<v Speaker 5>he can't do it under the pressure.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, But remember late night television, those couch interviews.

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<v Speaker 2>You got to see your stars in a very relaxed setting,

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<v Speaker 2>oftentimes highly lubricated. Oh yeah, and you've got a sense

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<v Speaker 2>of their real personalities. That doesn't mean anything now because

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<v Speaker 2>you can get on social media. You see, we're overexposed

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<v Speaker 2>to these individuals, so we kind of know what their

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<v Speaker 2>real personalities are. It's not a window into people like

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<v Speaker 2>it used to be. It's just not special anymore. It's

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<v Speaker 2>definitely not this. But there's still some good stuff on there.

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<v Speaker 2>And I even if I am not the biggest fan

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<v Speaker 2>of whose fallon, there are two Jimmy's I was trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get the right Jimmy. A lot of people like him,

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<v Speaker 2>and when I did work at NBC Universal, he had

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<v Speaker 2>a huge number of fans there in the building.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm quite sure he does.

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't watch any of them anymore, not to

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<v Speaker 2>be disrespectful. When we come back, we're going to say

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<v Speaker 2>goodbye to one of the greatest songwriters of all time.

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<v Speaker 2>And you may not know his name, but you damn

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<v Speaker 2>sure know his music. Will Jennings, that's next.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to later with Moe Kelly on demand from

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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty.

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<v Speaker 2>And being in the music industry, sometimes we lose sight

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<v Speaker 2>of the songwriters. I should say being in the music industry,

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<v Speaker 2>you're very much more sensitive to knowing who the songwriters are,

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<v Speaker 2>not just the artists who may perform songs. You may

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<v Speaker 2>wrongly assume that because someone sings a song, they also

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<v Speaker 2>wrote the song, and more times than not, that's not

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<v Speaker 2>the case. Will Jennings passed away today at the age

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<v Speaker 2>of eighty. He was an Oscar winner for My Heart

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<v Speaker 2>will go on Celine Dion's song obviously from Titanic and

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<v Speaker 2>if you know the movie, an officer and a Gentleman.

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<v Speaker 2>The song of Where We Belong which was sung by

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<v Speaker 2>Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warns that also won an Oscar

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<v Speaker 2>And you think about some of these timeless hits that

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<v Speaker 2>will transcend time. You may remember the people who sung

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<v Speaker 2>the song, but you may not know who wrote the song.

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<v Speaker 2>And these are songs which were written by Will Jennings.

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<v Speaker 2>He won those two Academy Awards, and did you know

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<v Speaker 2>for example, he wrote Tears in Heaven performed by Eric Clapton, which.

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<v Speaker 3>Was used in the movie Rush.

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<v Speaker 2>He won also a Golden Globe for Best Original Song,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as Grammys for Record of the Year and

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<v Speaker 2>Song of the Year.

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<v Speaker 3>He won three Grammy Awards.

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<v Speaker 2>And you may think of great vocalists like Celine Dion

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<v Speaker 2>or even Whitney Houston. Well it was Will Jennings who

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<v Speaker 2>wrote Whitney Houston's number one song, Didn't We Almost Have

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<v Speaker 2>It All?

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<v Speaker 3>And Barry Manilow's Looks Like We Made It. These are anthems.

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<v Speaker 2>These are great songs which will be remembered for all

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<v Speaker 2>time pop classic music. Will Jennings was inducted into Songwriters

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<v Speaker 2>Hall of Fame in two thousand and six, and he

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<v Speaker 2>was a member of the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

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<v Speaker 2>And I always say that music is the closest thing

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<v Speaker 2>we'll ever have to a time machine, because music, especially

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<v Speaker 2>the songs we love, will take us back, at least emotionally,

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<v Speaker 2>to exactly who we were, where we were, and when

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<v Speaker 2>we were. Think about a favorite song. Think about the

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<v Speaker 2>song My Heart Will go On from Titanic. You probably

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<v Speaker 2>will remember where you were when you first heard the song.

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<v Speaker 2>You probably will remember hearing it as part of Titanic soundtrack.

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<v Speaker 2>You probably will remember the emotions you had at time.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe you were dating someone, maybe you were going through

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<v Speaker 2>a breakup.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>But music is always very closely tied to who we

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<v Speaker 2>were at the time in which we remember that song.

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<v Speaker 2>So I thought it would be appropriate to at least

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<v Speaker 2>say a few words in support of Will Jennings, someone

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<v Speaker 2>that you may not know if you weren't really connected

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<v Speaker 2>to music, but I knew, and anyone who was really

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<v Speaker 2>connected to the music industry knew because of all the

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<v Speaker 2>many hits that he had written for some of our

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<v Speaker 2>favorite artists, you and me. You also had major hits

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<v Speaker 2>with Steve Wynwood. Obviously, we played that in coming out

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<v Speaker 2>of the Break, Dion Warwick, Tim McGraw, so many people.

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<v Speaker 2>And also you may remember a few weeks ago we

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<v Speaker 2>had a discussion about artists selling their music catalog and

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<v Speaker 2>how artists, songwriters and also performers they want to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to cash out while they're still here. And Jennings

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<v Speaker 2>sold his music last year, and it's even though the

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<v Speaker 2>terms of the deal weren't disclosed publicly, it was estimated

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<v Speaker 2>that it was around anywhere between seventy and eighty million,

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<v Speaker 2>and you could tell just by the hits that I

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<v Speaker 2>listed that it could easily be worth that and more so. Unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 2>Will Jennings has gone now at the age of eighty,

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<v Speaker 2>but his music that we all know and love will

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<v Speaker 2>be with us for the rest of our lives and more.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from

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<v Speaker 1>KFI AM six forty.

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<v Speaker 2>And before we get out of here, you look, it's

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<v Speaker 2>hard to measure up to Johnny Carson. I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>anyone can measure up to John Carson, but I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's fair to acknowledge that the industry as a whole,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think you can support as many late night

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<v Speaker 2>shows as we have right now, and I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if he can support I don't know if people growing

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<v Speaker 2>up now or coming of age now, or coming into

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<v Speaker 2>the own as adults and entertainment consumers are looking for

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<v Speaker 2>traditional late night television. And I think that's the difference

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<v Speaker 2>between now and let's say twenty fourteen when Jay Lennel left,

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<v Speaker 2>Because even you Mark Ronner, you may get home and

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<v Speaker 2>you say that you catch all the monologues, but you're

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<v Speaker 2>not watching it for the interviews and the whole show,

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<v Speaker 2>are you.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, they all do the interviews differently, and so if

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<v Speaker 5>it's somebody I'm interested in, yes I will, But I

423
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.880
<v Speaker 5>don't watch all three shows from start to finish it.

424
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:51.359
<v Speaker 3>Who could do that? Well? When I was in college,

425
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.880
<v Speaker 3>we watched.

426
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Lino and depending on the person who I control the TV,

427
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.200
<v Speaker 2>Letterman just about every night from beginning to end.

428
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:03.400
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I couldn't do that with Letterman. After the famous

429
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:05.519
<v Speaker 5>Bill Hicks routine, you know what I'm talking about. I

430
00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.480
<v Speaker 5>don't know Bill. Well, you know who Bill Hicks was.

431
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:10.480
<v Speaker 5>He died very young, if I believe pancreatic cancer was.

432
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:14.240
<v Speaker 5>He was kind of positioned to be the next George Carlin,

433
00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:16.799
<v Speaker 5>or at least an heir to George Carlin, and he

434
00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:20.359
<v Speaker 5>did an immortal Jay Leno routine that Leno must be

435
00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:21.079
<v Speaker 5>familiar with.

436
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:23.759
<v Speaker 3>It's about Jay Leno.

437
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.680
<v Speaker 5>Selling his soul hawkin' doritos and asking Joey Lawrence, so,

438
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:28.400
<v Speaker 5>so you got a car?

439
00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:29.480
<v Speaker 3>Can you drive? Can you drive?

440
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:32.119
<v Speaker 5>And at the end of the bit, Leno loses his

441
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:35.000
<v Speaker 5>mind and goes on a murder spree. It's hilarious and

442
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:37.079
<v Speaker 5>it's worth looking up. You can find it on YouTube.

443
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:39.240
<v Speaker 3>And that turns you off of Letterman.

444
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:42.799
<v Speaker 5>Turned me off of Leno because I was already much

445
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:47.519
<v Speaker 5>more of a fan of Letterman's more offbeat, sarcastic humor.

446
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, yeah, for me, I used to watch it

447
00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.880
<v Speaker 2>beginning to end one because look, you know what I do.

448
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:56.200
<v Speaker 3>I love the interview style.

449
00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:00.200
<v Speaker 2>I love the conversational style of Johnny Carson or a

450
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Jay linno interview. That's something where I always loved what

451
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:07.359
<v Speaker 2>was special about late night And it didn't matter the guest.

452
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.559
<v Speaker 2>I felt that it was someone I would want to

453
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:12.599
<v Speaker 2>know about because they were on late night television.

454
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:13.680
<v Speaker 3>It used to be a thing.

455
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:16.440
<v Speaker 2>And it was also this you would see the next

456
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.240
<v Speaker 2>great comedian on late night television.

457
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.200
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, but the thing is you want to see

458
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:24.079
<v Speaker 5>how Johnny interacts with anybody, whether it's rak Kela Welch

459
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:27.640
<v Speaker 5>or a guy with a big twine ball from Nebraska

460
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.920
<v Speaker 5>or something like that. That was what was great about Johnny.

461
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.039
<v Speaker 5>But it's not the same now. It's I mean, I

462
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:37.839
<v Speaker 5>like Colbert and I like John Oliver too, but it's

463
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:39.039
<v Speaker 5>a whole different ball of axe.

464
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:42.039
<v Speaker 2>It's different, and I think it comes down to the

465
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:46.039
<v Speaker 2>fact that the shows today are more about the show

466
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.839
<v Speaker 2>and less about the host. The Tonight's show is bigger

467
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:51.799
<v Speaker 2>than Jimmy Fallon.

468
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and one.

469
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.519
<v Speaker 5>Thing that you haven't mentioned because it was before both

470
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:58.119
<v Speaker 5>our times was Jack Parr. But if you go back

471
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:01.160
<v Speaker 5>and look at his old shows, I mean, he may

472
00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:03.400
<v Speaker 5>not have been the very first late night host. I

473
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:07.240
<v Speaker 5>think it was Steve Allen, but he was incredible. But

474
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:09.119
<v Speaker 5>you want to watch it because of Jack park You

475
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:11.640
<v Speaker 5>don't know what he's going to say, because he's sort

476
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:16.279
<v Speaker 5>of a volatile guy and a little bit of an egomaniac,

477
00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:19.720
<v Speaker 5>but also tremendously witty, and the whole show is about

478
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:21.799
<v Speaker 5>how he responds to things and people.

479
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:25.480
<v Speaker 2>And there's something else we talked about growing up late

480
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:29.799
<v Speaker 2>night television was near the end of the programming schedule

481
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.119
<v Speaker 2>for TV. If you're not old enough to know this,

482
00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:35.839
<v Speaker 2>TV went off back in the day. As far as programming,

483
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:39.079
<v Speaker 2>it would sign off you get static until you got

484
00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:42.200
<v Speaker 2>the star spangled banner some five in the morning.

485
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:44.119
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and that sign that says do you know where

486
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:45.000
<v Speaker 5>your children are?

487
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.480
<v Speaker 3>Right? Or you get the test pattern.

488
00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:50.799
<v Speaker 2>And for late night television back in the day, it

489
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.920
<v Speaker 2>was the only thing.

490
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.240
<v Speaker 3>There was nothing competing against it.

491
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.319
<v Speaker 2>There was not like you could go home and say, well,

492
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.240
<v Speaker 2>let me see what's on Netflix or let me see

493
00:26:58.279 --> 00:27:00.759
<v Speaker 2>what's stored up in my DVR that I want to watch.

494
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:04.680
<v Speaker 3>No, it was late night television or bust. It was.

495
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:08.920
<v Speaker 5>And people at this point may not understand how famous

496
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:13.279
<v Speaker 5>and how powerful and how enormously rich Johnny was. As

497
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:14.880
<v Speaker 5>a result of that, he was the only game in

498
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:17.880
<v Speaker 5>town for late night TV for a very long time.

499
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Well not only that, think of how many careers that

500
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:24.599
<v Speaker 2>he made, I don't want to say destroyed, but short

501
00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:27.640
<v Speaker 2>circuited just by appearances on his show.

502
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.000
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, if he called a comedian over to the

503
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.799
<v Speaker 5>couch after their set, they were made. If he iced

504
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:35.680
<v Speaker 5>you out because he got mad at you for anything

505
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:38.960
<v Speaker 5>at all and anything. And I've read recently the book

506
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.799
<v Speaker 5>by his old lawyer Bushkin. If you got on his

507
00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:45.079
<v Speaker 5>bad side and you never knew what it was going

508
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.880
<v Speaker 5>to be, you were done.

509
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:52.000
<v Speaker 2>In Hollywood, not even well put his away, not even

510
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:54.200
<v Speaker 2>done as far as coming on the Tonight Show. You

511
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:57.039
<v Speaker 2>because there were fewer places that you could land or

512
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.680
<v Speaker 2>be seen or be discovered. And that's why it was

513
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:04.039
<v Speaker 2>so coveted to have time on the Tonight Show for anyone.

514
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, even if you were an established actor and

515
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:08.960
<v Speaker 2>you were promoting something, you had to go see Johnny

516
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:11.279
<v Speaker 2>or hopefully you get the chance to go see Johnny.

517
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:15.680
<v Speaker 5>Wielded his power very capriciously, and I gotta say I

518
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.799
<v Speaker 5>love Joan Rivers, but she didn't do herself any favors

519
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:22.079
<v Speaker 5>by going against him and getting agreeing to do her

520
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:24.759
<v Speaker 5>own show without talking to him. You kind of he

521
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:26.359
<v Speaker 5>was sort of the king, and you go to him

522
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.200
<v Speaker 5>for his blessing.

523
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:32.160
<v Speaker 2>He was, and then you hear stories about how he

524
00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:35.119
<v Speaker 2>let Harry Belafonte sit in for him for a week

525
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.400
<v Speaker 2>and how that shames the whole perception of Late Night

526
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:42.359
<v Speaker 2>and how it opened the doors for a lot of people.

527
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:45.680
<v Speaker 2>He could be very generous and he could be very cantankerous.

528
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:48.960
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know about the Belafonte thing. Yeah, yep, it's

529
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:50.640
<v Speaker 3>later with Mo Kelly. We'll see tomorrow.

530
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:53.519
<v Speaker 2>KFI AM six forty We are alive everywhere in the

531
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:55.279
<v Speaker 2>iHeartRadio app free.

532
00:28:55.160 --> 00:29:01.119
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533
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Talk K S I M K O S T HD

534
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:04.680
<v Speaker 3>two

535
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.759
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