Speaker 1: Hello, it is Ryan, and we could all use an
Speaker 1: extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we just to
Speaker 1: make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes,
Speaker 1: counting or steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. That
Speaker 1: is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino.
Speaker 1: Chumpbuck Casino has all your favorite social casino style games
Speaker 1: you can play for free, anytime anywhere with daily bonuses.
Speaker 1: That's you brighten your day alone, actually a lot. So
Speaker 1: sign up now at chumbuck Casino dot com. That's Chumbuck
Speaker 1: Casino dot com.
Speaker 2: Nopers necessary Daloid where everybody lost he terms and conditions eighteen.
Speaker 3: Plus Judy was boring Hello, then Judy discovered Chumbucasino dot com.
Speaker 4: It's my little escape.
Speaker 3: Now Judy's the life of the party.
Speaker 4: Oh baby mama is bringing home the bacon.
Speaker 3: WHOA, Take it easy, Judy. Jump the Chumba life is
Speaker 3: for everybody. So go to Chumpacasino dot com and play
Speaker 3: over one hundred casino style games. Join today and play
Speaker 3: for free for your chance to redeem some serious prices.
Speaker 3: Jump Chumpacasino dot com Noprid's necessary point. We're promited to
Speaker 3: my eighteen plus terms and conditioned to plus.
Speaker 4: What's loop to Radio.
Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 5: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 5: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 6: Good Evening. In April eighteen ninety three, John Marshall, an
Speaker 6: immigrant and successful farmer on Summus Prairie in British Columbia,
Speaker 6: was found dead lying sprawled across the verandah of his farmhouse.
Speaker 6: The face was a mess, his nose smashed in and cracked,
Speaker 6: blood covering his forehead around a jagged black hole. The
Speaker 6: shocked neighbor who discovered the body rushed to summon the authorities.
Speaker 6: An autopsy, coroner's inquest, and murder investigation followed. Two days later,
Speaker 6: a handyman named Albert Strobel was arrested for Marshall's murder.
Speaker 6: Strubble was an unlikely killer. Short and physically disabled, The
Speaker 6: young man the community knew was not capable of murder,
Speaker 6: and locals were shocked to imagine that Strobel could have
Speaker 6: killed the man who had treated him like family, but
Speaker 6: something had gone tragically wrong on the night Marshal died.
Speaker 6: Unraveling the mystery would take nine months and two lengthy
Speaker 6: trials that seized the attention on both sides of the
Speaker 6: Canadian American border, splitting them into pro and anti Strobo factions.
Speaker 6: Newspapers devoted page after page of coverage and throngs of
Speaker 6: spectators squeezed into the courtroom galleries. The first trial in
Speaker 6: New Westminster ended with the jury hopelessly deadlocked. The second
Speaker 6: in Victoria found him guilty and set an impending date
Speaker 6: for his execution. The heaviest, heaviest hitters of b c's
Speaker 6: political and legal established establishment took part, including former and
Speaker 6: current premiers, an Attorney General, and a future Supreme Court justice.
Speaker 6: When the second trial ended with a guilty verdict and
Speaker 6: death sentence, many in the public hold in protest, convinced
Speaker 6: that a young man had been condemned to die for
Speaker 6: a crime he did not commit, and the dramatic events
Speaker 6: would not stop there. With the condemned man sitting on
Speaker 6: death row, the case would take more twists and turns
Speaker 6: that would lead Albert Strobel to the Shadow of the Gallows.
Speaker 6: The book that were featuring this evening is The Trials
Speaker 6: of Albert Strobel, Love, Murder and Justice at the End
Speaker 6: of the Frontier with my special guest author, Chad Rhymer.
Speaker 6: Welcome to the programme and thank you very much for
Speaker 6: this interview.
Speaker 7: Chad Ryme, Well, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 6: Man, Thank you very much. It's a very fascinating case,
Speaker 6: very very interesting when we set it in the timeframe
Speaker 6: of the eighteen nineties in Canada on the along the
Speaker 6: Canada US border. Tell us a little bit about the
Speaker 6: Summus Prairie of British Columbia. Set the stage for a
Speaker 6: little bit of the history of this area and just
Speaker 6: where this geographically is on this Canadian American border. Tell
Speaker 6: us where this is.
Speaker 4: Right today. It's actually there's a town called Huntington which
Speaker 4: is south of Abbotsford, British Columbia, and both of those
Speaker 4: are about a forty five minute drive east of Vancouver,
Speaker 4: British Columbia. And you come down out of Vancouver and
Speaker 4: you come off Arise in the Fraser Valley and you
Speaker 4: go down onto this this prairie, Seumass prairie, and it's
Speaker 4: the event that took place right right along just as
Speaker 4: you come down onto the bottom of the prairie back
Speaker 4: and right now at Huntington's it's a border crossing. Huntington
Speaker 4: is the Canadian side of the border crossing, and then
Speaker 4: Seumas City is the American side, and a railroad, a
Speaker 4: couple of railroads go straight north south, connecting missions across
Speaker 4: the Fraser River to the north and then going south
Speaker 4: into the United States. In the eighteen nineties, that prairie
Speaker 4: was very, very lightly settled. It's actually quite remarkable how recent,
Speaker 4: how recent it was that there were so few people
Speaker 4: around on the prairie, you know, so few white settlers,
Speaker 4: and of course the native people's had been set it
Speaker 4: pushed aside, dispossessed of the land, and pushed onto reserve lands.
Speaker 4: In the Sumass Prairie, the dominating feature on the prairie
Speaker 4: to the east was was a wide lake, a lake
Speaker 4: that spanned from one side of the prairie along Seumass
Speaker 4: Mountain to the other side of the prairie along Better
Speaker 4: Mountain about four miles or six kilometers across, and then
Speaker 4: about six miles nine kilometers long. That was called Seumass
Speaker 4: Lake that was there at the time. It was drained
Speaker 4: in the nineteen twenties, So that was a dominating feature.
Speaker 4: Dominating feature to to you know, the one side and
Speaker 4: then the other side is this sharp escarpment that that
Speaker 4: came down from from the west. That's where the edge
Speaker 4: of the last ice they h went. And the events
Speaker 4: that that were happening that that we talked about happened
Speaker 4: on the western edge of that prairie. And just after
Speaker 4: two years after the Canadian Pacific Railway had built a
Speaker 4: spur line from Mission which is on the north side
Speaker 4: of the Fraser Valley straight they built a bridge and
Speaker 4: then straight down south to hook up with the Northern
Speaker 4: Pacific Railway that came across in in Washington State. And
Speaker 4: the railway itself kind of sparked a bit of a boom,
Speaker 4: and then the boom kind of faded after a little while,
Speaker 4: but it mostly developed the Sumas City on the American side.
Speaker 4: And so the Sumas City was the town that that
Speaker 4: even all the Canadians on the north of the board
Speaker 4: they would go if they needed the doctor, if they
Speaker 4: wanted to go shopping, they would go into Sumas City
Speaker 4: because there was no other real town around the habits
Speaker 4: heard what didn't marriage as a real town for quite
Speaker 4: a while. Chiliac was across Sumass Lake. So these people
Speaker 4: the Sumas Prairie, it was, you know, their life was
Speaker 4: more north south, and they went across the line as
Speaker 4: if the line didn't exist kind of thing. And actually
Speaker 4: from any white settlers, about half of them were actually Americans,
Speaker 4: so they thought, well, we don't have to recognize this
Speaker 4: line at all. So and the geography topography was actually
Speaker 4: it was a mixture. It was on the very edge
Speaker 4: of rich grasslands which were produced because Sumass Lake grew
Speaker 4: every year with a fla and then and then went away,
Speaker 4: and they produced these these grasslands. And on the grasslands
Speaker 4: he had the sheet they cattle and dairy cattle, beef cattle.
Speaker 4: By the time you get closer to where the railroad
Speaker 4: was and where all these events take place, it was
Speaker 4: more marshy and boggy and bush and in bushy and
Speaker 4: and so it was very, very difficult to make it
Speaker 4: a go of farming. And so the farmer like a victim.
Speaker 4: We John Marshall, you know, he was one of the
Speaker 4: most successful, actually, but it was still you know, a
Speaker 4: hard slog for him. And you also had, you know,
Speaker 4: like every frontier, you had the population. The white population
Speaker 4: was very recent, and he had people coming and going
Speaker 4: on with time. And Marshall had been there for ten
Speaker 4: years and he was an old timer. And the men
Speaker 4: then the young man arrested for his his his murder.
Speaker 4: Albert Strobel, he also had had been there, you know,
Speaker 4: almost ten years. His family had come and he had
Speaker 4: bounced back and forth across the border. It lived most
Speaker 4: mostly on the BC side. His family lost their property
Speaker 4: and then he had hit a year or two before.
Speaker 4: He had moved back into the American side, the Sumas
Speaker 4: City side. But like I say, every day people were
Speaker 4: walking up and down and there was no good road,
Speaker 4: so they used the railroad to walk up and down,
Speaker 4: going you know, from Sumas Prairie and Canadian side to
Speaker 4: sum Mass City. And you know the events of the
Speaker 4: book that you know, you're constantly moving back across up
Speaker 4: and down that railway line, and it kind of, you know,
Speaker 4: it becomes a character in itself in the in the
Speaker 4: in the in the book that that line itself, it's
Speaker 4: connecting directly connects Albert Strobel's hotel that he's staying in
Speaker 4: to John Marshall's property which has a gate right at
Speaker 4: the railway yard railway uh bed that you know, you'd
Speaker 4: go off and go into his property. But that's kind
Speaker 4: of the economic and uh and the physical setting for
Speaker 4: for the events.
Speaker 6: Now, tell us about the relationship between Albert and this
Speaker 6: Portuguese immigrant which had difficulty, you know, had a thick accident,
Speaker 6: and so tell us about this unlikely friendship and what
Speaker 6: that friendship entailed.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: Yes, they actually were quite well. I don't know if
Speaker 4: close would be a good good term for it, but
Speaker 4: Strobo was one of the most frequent visitors to to
Speaker 4: John Marshall's place. He would come up and he would
Speaker 4: he would come up and help with the with the
Speaker 4: chores in the house. He would help with some of
Speaker 4: the chores around the farmyard as well. They were both
Speaker 4: kind of outsiders in amongst the Sumass Prairie community. Marshall
Speaker 4: because he was Portuguese and there was very strong racism
Speaker 4: at the time for you know, Southern Europeans and Portuguese
Speaker 4: in particular. He actually came from the Azora's Islands off
Speaker 4: of Portugal, so his accident would have been more stronger,
Speaker 4: more regional Portuguese. He was known as the old man
Speaker 4: and the old man that was killed, and yet he
Speaker 4: actually was only about thirty eight or thirty nine, and
Speaker 4: it's kind of like he the descriptions of him, you
Speaker 4: get the sense, well, this is kind of like an
Speaker 4: exotic guy. You know, we don't really know much about him,
Speaker 4: and but you know, so we can describe them the
Speaker 4: way we want. And then Strobo was an outsider, partly
Speaker 4: because of his family, I mean his he came from
Speaker 4: a broken family. His mother had died a couple of
Speaker 4: couple of years, but a few years before the events,
Speaker 4: he had a half dozen siblings that were still with him.
Speaker 4: His father kind of lost it after his mother died.
Speaker 4: He was a veteran of the Civil War, and he
Speaker 4: was a German immigrant himself had come to Illinois and
Speaker 4: that's where Strobo was born, and the family had come
Speaker 4: to out West in the eighteen eighties. And his father
Speaker 4: was very restless. He didn't stay at any one particular thing.
Speaker 4: He was continually going off, leaving the kids to take
Speaker 4: care of themselves. He had a problem with alcohol, as
Speaker 4: invariably so many did, because it was well as you
Speaker 4: could buy very strong alcohol back then unregulated, and he
Speaker 4: really disappeared by the time these events took place, and
Speaker 4: so his family was poor.
Speaker 2: Not wait the Lucky Landslips. You can get lucky just
Speaker 2: about anywhere.
Speaker 8: This's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the
Speaker 8: weather's five. But we're just going to circle up here
Speaker 8: a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that.
Speaker 8: It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I
Speaker 8: suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right,
Speaker 8: and start getting lucky pay for.
Speaker 2: Free at Lucky landslipes dot com. Are you feeling lucky?
Speaker 2: Just necessary voidwerre prohibited by Law eighteen plus terms and
Speaker 2: conditions applying to the website for details.
Speaker 4: That there weren't other poor families, but it was poor,
Speaker 4: and it was parentless, and the kids were just trying
Speaker 4: to hold it together and struggle. Himself was a bit
Speaker 4: of an odd ball. He of course, physically he had
Speaker 4: he had a deformity of his right right leg that
Speaker 4: that twisted it and then twisted his his foot in
Speaker 4: some some form the the Obviously he wouldn't have been
Speaker 4: going to a doctor, a specialist to get a diagnosis,
Speaker 4: but he had been told it was an inflammation of
Speaker 4: his his bone, and so that that left him quite
Speaker 4: it left him disabled. And of course at that time
Speaker 4: it's like, oh, that's a that's a that that kind
Speaker 4: of defined him, right. And he was, you know, not
Speaker 4: not a big fellow to begin with, and so he
Speaker 4: was short and with his leg even shorter, and he
Speaker 4: he was you know what nowadays might be called deveout
Speaker 4: mentally challenged or certainly emotionally challenged. He was. He was
Speaker 4: always referred to as the boy, even though by the
Speaker 4: time and the murder, by the time of the murder,
Speaker 4: he was twenty years old, and at that time in
Speaker 4: that frontier society, you know, a man at twenty years
Speaker 4: old is a man. You know, you're out of your family,
Speaker 4: you're making your own family and so forth. But he
Speaker 4: was seen as the boy, and in part because he
Speaker 4: just you know, he was clever enough in some things,
Speaker 4: but he wasn't quite there in others. And also, you know,
Speaker 4: emotionally he was kind of he was, you know, behind
Speaker 4: is behind the times with his age and so forth,
Speaker 4: and so they were both outsiders. They kind of, you know,
Speaker 4: for for Struggle, he didn't have a real home, and
Speaker 4: for for for Marshall, he didn't have a family around,
Speaker 4: so they kind of, you know, it was kind of
Speaker 4: like a you know, an uncle and a nephew type
Speaker 4: relationship that they they they developed and and they seemed
Speaker 4: to like each other quite you know, as much, not
Speaker 4: that they guy to know each other well, but that
Speaker 4: they liked each other's company.
Speaker 7: So right, yeah, now, now tell us tell us about
Speaker 7: the relationship. You talked about this delayed emotional and development.
Speaker 7: What they called him, just the boy, but he had
Speaker 7: recently been in a relationship his uh, his landlord was
Speaker 7: Margaret Bartlett, so he rented a room from her. But
Speaker 7: she had three daughter and one of them was Elizabeth,
Speaker 7: was twelve years old. Tell us about this recent love
Speaker 7: affair and if it was approved or condoned by Margaret.
Speaker 7: Tell us about this relationship and what it meant to
Speaker 7: help her.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Elizabeth was the I guess she was the third
Speaker 4: oldest of the Bartlet daughters and there were eight Bartlet
Speaker 4: children and Margaret was the mother. Elizabeth was known to
Speaker 4: be People around believed her to be fourteen years old,
Speaker 4: and government records show though that she's definitely twelve. And yes,
Speaker 4: the two of them did develop a relationship. At first,
Speaker 4: the mother Margaret wasn't crazy about it. The father in
Speaker 4: the situation, Charles Bartlett, was kind of once again. He
Speaker 4: was another father who was kind of out of the picture,
Speaker 4: not physically, but he, you know, was another guy who
Speaker 4: just tried numerous things and nothing seemed to stick. He
Speaker 4: actually lived north of the line in chilat and You
Speaker 4: for a good while and ran a hotel that burned down.
Speaker 4: He forgot to get the insurance, so they were left
Speaker 4: with nothing. And so Margaret Bartlett moved the whole family
Speaker 4: south of the line and she bought the hotel. So
Speaker 4: she was very much in charge. He didn't stay at
Speaker 4: home very often. He passed out in the bar and
Speaker 4: slept in the bar whereever he was. So and she
Speaker 4: did eventually come around to the you know, in the
Speaker 4: midst of the trials and the testimony, she did come around.
Speaker 4: Both Elizabeth and Albert claimed that they were engaged. They
Speaker 4: were officially engaged, and they said they had been talking
Speaker 4: about the mother. The mother said, well, maybe I don't
Speaker 4: think they were officially engaged, but they were, you know, related,
Speaker 4: they were in a relationship, and you know, Elizabeth should
Speaker 4: said well, if at one point if the murder hadn't
Speaker 4: ha happened by they would have been married, right. And
Speaker 4: I do address this and I said, oh, she's twelve
Speaker 4: years old and they get married. And the answer is
Speaker 4: in law, yes they can. The marriage of laws for
Speaker 4: Washington State where the marriage age was eighteen for a
Speaker 4: woman twenty one for a man. Now that only applied
Speaker 4: if the parents of the daughter getting married protested, you know,
Speaker 4: if they said, well, no, we don't give her approval
Speaker 4: for to get married. If they don't protest, then there
Speaker 4: is There was no there was no other age limit
Speaker 4: for getting married. And the fact that she was thought
Speaker 4: to be fourteen was significant because Margaret Bartlett got married
Speaker 4: at fourteen, the mother of Jay of the David Airly,
Speaker 4: who is this little budding sociopath that was Albert Strobel's
Speaker 4: co defendant in the First Child. She was fourteen when
Speaker 4: she got married. Both of them, both the Barlett and
Speaker 4: Margaret and Airly's mother were fifteen when they had their
Speaker 4: first children. And Theodore Davy, who was the premier at
Speaker 4: the time, and he was one of the most impressive
Speaker 4: minds that BC had produced at the time, he married
Speaker 4: the girl that was fourteen back in the eighteen seventies
Speaker 4: and she died. So it wasn't unusual on the frontier
Speaker 4: for girls at fourteen to be married. So nobody really
Speaker 4: raised as I say they thought. And the family kind
Speaker 4: of didn't protest about Elizabeth being thought out as fourteen, right,
Speaker 4: and Margaret didn't say anything. And from their perspective, you know, Margaret,
Speaker 4: you know, daughters were useful. These families were big. Boys
Speaker 4: were useful on the farm, and daughters were useful in
Speaker 4: the house and raising the kids. And when they didn't
Speaker 4: become useful, they wanted to marry the daughters off because
Speaker 4: they became, you know, dependent. So marrying daughters off at
Speaker 4: fourteen or fifteen isn't a bad a bad thing if
Speaker 4: you have other daughters to help around the house. Switch
Speaker 4: to barlets did. So this was not as unusual as
Speaker 4: you would think it would be.
Speaker 6: Sure, let's talk about as somebody talking about marriage, and
Speaker 6: they talked about an engagement, and so the mother knew,
Speaker 6: the father knew, but at the time he had no
Speaker 6: job prospects. He had talked about some money that he had,
Speaker 6: but it was complicated. He said he had money in
Speaker 6: a bank and New Westminster. I'll have you explain that briefly,
Speaker 6: we don't get too far into that, but the idea
Speaker 6: that he had no prospects for jobs, but he had
Speaker 6: approached a couple guys, a couple of barbers, because his
Speaker 6: idea was that he would like to be a barber
Speaker 6: someday open a shop. So he did approach a couple
Speaker 6: of people. But how serious was he an approach with
Speaker 6: the first one with the apprenticeship and then the second one.
Speaker 6: What did he say in terms of trying to secure
Speaker 6: the barber shop business from this gentleman named Carpenter tell
Speaker 6: us a litt little bit about his prospects about being
Speaker 6: a barber.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he was completely serious about being a barber,
Speaker 4: and it was one of his, you know, more realistic plans.
Speaker 4: He knew, you know, being a barber was a bit
Speaker 4: easier on his leg. Of course, you know, working behind
Speaker 4: a pow in a field isn't the easiest thing to
Speaker 4: do when you you you know, you have to you're
Speaker 4: regular walking, you have to use the king. Now, he
Speaker 4: he did physical work, of course, because they had to
Speaker 4: didn't have any it didn't have much of any school training,
Speaker 4: and so being a barber would have been a good
Speaker 4: thing for him. And the only problem is, of course,
Speaker 4: you know, barber's come and go. I mean the two
Speaker 4: that he approached. One the first fellow, he gave his
Speaker 4: horse too. It was the only asset that that Albert
Speaker 4: owned was his horse. He gave him the horse to
Speaker 4: take him on as an apprentice. That guy's shop burned
Speaker 4: down and he left. So then Carpenter opened a barbershop.
Speaker 4: And Strobo said, okay, I'll buy the barbershop from you
Speaker 4: with everything in it, and I'll also buy some some
Speaker 4: household you know, things maybe a sofa, chairs, that sort
Speaker 4: of thing for you know, And and Carpenter said, well,
Speaker 4: the affing price is two hundred and fifty dollars, and
Speaker 4: Strobo said, well that's fine. I have five hundred dollars
Speaker 4: in the bank, and you know I'll be able to
Speaker 4: pay you. Now, these talks apparently like according to Carpenter,
Speaker 4: he's the dodgy character. According to Carpenter, the talks have
Speaker 4: been going on for a right up until the day
Speaker 4: that Marshall that Strobo was arrested, and that Margaret Bartlett
Speaker 4: and Elizabeth Bartlett knew about these talks, knew about these plans.
Speaker 4: So from the sound of it, this kind of was
Speaker 4: the plan that that Strobo was going to to get
Speaker 4: the money to buy Carpenter's barbershop. That would set him
Speaker 4: up and that would you know, be the basis for
Speaker 4: you know, him being able to support it getting married
Speaker 4: to Elizabeth. So Margaret kind of knew about this, uh
Speaker 4: and and you know that that would have been the plan.
Speaker 4: The only thing was Strobell had no money. He said
Speaker 4: he had the five hundred in the bank, but and
Speaker 4: he probably kind of believed it. But through some really
Speaker 4: dodgy real estate stuff that his older brother, Albert's older
Speaker 4: brother having it involved been involved in, his older brother
Speaker 4: then kind of passed on means heavily mortgaged property to
Speaker 4: him Albert, and so Albert thought he had these properties.
Speaker 4: I don't think he was aware that there was there
Speaker 4: was a full mortgage on them, and he signed. He
Speaker 4: ends up the bank comes and asks them for the money.
Speaker 4: He ends up signing the property over, and then in
Speaker 4: his mind, he signs the property over but gets no money,
Speaker 4: and so he thinks the bank stole his money. So
Speaker 4: that's what he was thinking about, Yes, I have the money.
Speaker 4: So that's kind of the picture where he just kind
Speaker 4: of doesn't get the big picture struggle, doesn't he doesn't
Speaker 4: understand that well, actually those properties weren't anything because there
Speaker 4: was a huge mortgage. Now, of course his older brother probably,
Speaker 4: you know, if he did tell him about the mortgages,
Speaker 4: he had to have known that struggle. Albert wouldn't have
Speaker 4: understood very well what was going on. So his older
Speaker 4: brother certainly shares some of the blame here, as does
Speaker 4: the bank and Suma City, who I'm sure it's agent
Speaker 4: like Albert for quite a good ride on this whole thing.
Speaker 4: So the money wasn't there. They thought it was, I think,
Speaker 4: And the plan was there, and it wasn't a bad plan,
Speaker 4: but the money just wasn't there.
Speaker 2: With Lucky Landslots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.
Speaker 5: Really, beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen
Speaker 5: the bride and groom?
Speaker 4: Mury? Sorry we're here.
Speaker 3: We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost
Speaker 3: track of tile.
Speaker 1: No Lucky land casino with cash prizes that add up
Speaker 1: quicker than a guess registered.
Speaker 8: In that case, I pronounce you lucky lay.
Speaker 2: For free Lucky land Slots dot Com. Daily bonuses are waiting,
Speaker 2: no purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by lock eighteen plus
Speaker 2: Terms and Conditions applag see website for details.
Speaker 1: Hello, it is Ryan and I was on a flight
Speaker 1: the other day playing one of my favorite social spin
Speaker 1: slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over the
Speaker 1: person sitting next to me, and you know what they
Speaker 1: were doing. They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence, I
Speaker 1: think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumba Casino's
Speaker 1: home to hundreds at casino style games. You can play
Speaker 1: for free anytime, anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. So
Speaker 1: sign up now at Chumbuckcasino dot com to claim you're free.
Speaker 1: Welcome bonus. That's Chumbuck Casino dot com and live the
Speaker 1: Chumba Land No.
Speaker 4: Bus necessary DVO where if I lost the Terms Conditions
Speaker 4: eighteen plus.
Speaker 6: Let's get to April sixteenth and George Hilliard and also Albert.
Speaker 6: They're fishing at Marshall Creek and it's named after John Marshall.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 6: They get skunk fishing that day, so they stop at
Speaker 6: Marshall's for some milk, which is he has a cow,
Speaker 6: and they'd stopped many times before. And like you said,
Speaker 6: Albert is the kind of guy that visit him more
Speaker 6: than anyone else. So and likely as they are friends.
Speaker 6: They see each other all the time, and they're they're friendly,
Speaker 6: and they act like friends, and they can stop, he
Speaker 6: can stop over for a glass of milk. What does
Speaker 6: Marshall invites them for lunch? What does he talk about
Speaker 6: to these two gentlemen, to Albert and his friend?
Speaker 4: What does he say, Yeah, actually it's it's not Albert
Speaker 4: that that that's that's there with Hilliard, the George, and
Speaker 4: that comes back and tells Albert about this meeting. It's
Speaker 4: actually Elizabeth Albert, Elizabeth Bartlett's younger brother, George George George Bartlett.
Speaker 4: So you got George Hilliard, who's you know not I
Speaker 4: think he's around nine team for in English, and he's
Speaker 4: an immigrant from England. And then you've got George Bartner,
Speaker 4: who's eleven or twelve. The two of them go down
Speaker 4: to fish as you say, in Marshall Creek, and yes,
Speaker 4: named after John Marshall. It's in behind Marshall's house. And
Speaker 4: they they as they've done before, because Marshall's a jovialo
Speaker 4: and a fellow. He gives him some milk and and
Speaker 4: he wants the company. So he asks him to stay
Speaker 4: for lunch, which they do, and he gets talking about
Speaker 4: Marshall does. He gets talking in a very boastful way
Speaker 4: about his girlfriend, the girlfriend that he has, and Hilliard
Speaker 4: kind of eggs him on and in a teasing way,
Speaker 4: right because it would be like, here's this guy doesn't
Speaker 4: stay very good English. I'm going to kind of like
Speaker 4: needle him along. And so Marshall starts talking, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, I've got my girlfriend, and you know I'm
Speaker 4: going to go buy her address, and and you know
Speaker 4: I have the money. And Marshall goes off and gets
Speaker 4: this leather sack a bag of gold coin of coins,
Speaker 4: and he spills them out on his hand and half
Speaker 4: a dozen or so twenty dollars coins and shows them
Speaker 4: to the boy and boys and they're just you know,
Speaker 4: of course their eyes just like like right up at this.
Speaker 4: And they finish up the lunch and you know, Marshall's
Speaker 4: happy with himself bragging about these things. And George Hilliard
Speaker 4: and George Bartlett go back to the hotel and George
Speaker 4: Bartlett is actually Albert Strobo's roommate, so it's Strobos renting
Speaker 4: a house and a hotel in Margaret Bartlett's hotel, the
Speaker 4: City Hotel, and there's the two beds, and so George
Speaker 4: Bartlett is on one bed and Albert Strobell is in
Speaker 4: the other. And so they come back and you know,
Speaker 4: they tell Albert all about this meeting that they had
Speaker 4: with with Marshall, and they told him, certainly they told
Speaker 4: him about the money, and it's pretty guaranteed they would
Speaker 4: also have told him about, you know, Marshall talking about
Speaker 4: his girl. And so Albert, you know, knew these two
Speaker 4: things which would be very important in the in the
Speaker 4: events that happened, you know, over the next few days.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, let's get to what happens. You have a neighbor
Speaker 6: named Ira Earhart, and around nine pm he hears a
Speaker 6: dog barking and he thinks it might be from next
Speaker 6: door from Marshall's. He might be he's a trapper, so
Speaker 6: he thinks it might be a bearon one of the traps.
Speaker 6: But he is not going to go over there. There's
Speaker 6: not enough for him to say, I got to go
Speaker 6: over there. So he goes over there the next morning,
Speaker 6: just after dawn and to have a little bit of
Speaker 6: milk for his dog again and get some milk. What
Speaker 6: does he find.
Speaker 4: Uh, well, he finds John Marshall sprawled out on the
Speaker 4: on the veranda of his cabin, Marshall's cabin. Marshall's head
Speaker 4: was propped up. He's on his back. Marshall's head is
Speaker 4: is propped up on the sill of the door and
Speaker 4: and his body his feet are pointed outwards, so uh,
Speaker 4: you know, and a seater hanging off the edge of
Speaker 4: the veranda. And Earhard comes close enough. He doesn't come
Speaker 4: and touch the body or see if he's alive or
Speaker 4: anything like that, but he comes close enough and he
Speaker 4: sees the nose had been you know, there's he thought
Speaker 4: at first it was mud, but it was dry blood
Speaker 4: all over his his front of his face and you know,
Speaker 4: a dark spot on his forehead and stuff. And he
Speaker 4: thought he thought that Marshall had been a club to death.
Speaker 4: So he heads off. He heads off down down the
Speaker 4: CPR line down to the Huntington rail station and that's
Speaker 4: where they have a telegraph and everything to let you know,
Speaker 4: to let people know what he's found.
Speaker 6: Right now, what to he called? He contacts authorities and
Speaker 6: you have a couple of lomn uh Moresby is involved here.
Speaker 6: Tell us what what police find from there the initial
Speaker 6: examination of the crime scene and uh, just tell us
Speaker 6: who's involved with the investigation and how police proceed.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So, so what happens is that the arhard informs
Speaker 4: the the station master at at the hunting station. So
Speaker 4: this is you know, this is like at dawn, first
Speaker 4: thing in the morning, and the fish master there's no
Speaker 4: police in the area. You know, there's not a single
Speaker 4: constable between New Westminster and Hope and Yale. So he he, uh,
Speaker 4: the station master telegraphs New Westminster and William Morrisby is
Speaker 4: both the warden of the provincial jail and also the
Speaker 4: acting acting Superintendent of Police on the mainland, the main
Speaker 4: the real superintendent is in Victoria, and Moresby gets in
Speaker 4: touch with with a former sergeant to the British Army
Speaker 4: by the name of Pitt and Dry, George pitten Dry,
Speaker 4: who's the coroner and they've worked on cases before. So
Speaker 4: Morrisby and pitt and Dry jump onto the next train
Speaker 4: and you know, two three hours later the train goes
Speaker 4: New I Spencer the mission mission down. They get off
Speaker 4: at at h. Marshall's place, the two of them and
Speaker 4: and Moresby is of course the one in charge of
Speaker 4: now in charge of the investigation. When they when they
Speaker 4: get to Marshall's place, what they see is is like
Speaker 4: a couple dozen men milling around, walking around the place,
Speaker 4: and you know, stomping all over the yard, and a
Speaker 4: bunch huddled up on a bunch of men huddled up
Speaker 4: on the veranda looking over Marshall's body, which which somebody
Speaker 4: had thrown a coat too. So Marsby comes up. You know,
Speaker 4: I don't know if I don't think he's he was
Speaker 4: the one to use oaths under his breath, but he
Speaker 4: he was not happy about all these people trapesing round.
Speaker 4: He comes up and he starts to investigate. He takes
Speaker 4: the the the blanket off of off of Marshall's body,
Speaker 4: and he investigates. He sees he sees a hole in
Speaker 4: the the forehead of John Marshall, right above the eyebrow,
Speaker 4: left eyebrow, and he turns him over and he notices,
Speaker 4: of course, to the broken nose. He turns them over
Speaker 4: and sees another hole, jagged hole in the lower uh
Speaker 4: the part of where the neck joins joins your back
Speaker 4: shoulders at the base of the basically your neck. Anythink,
Speaker 4: so you know that it might be the exit wound
Speaker 4: of from the hole in the front of his head.
Speaker 4: So he looks around that he can't find any bullets
Speaker 4: on the veranda or on the walls or whatever. Not
Speaker 4: a lot of blood. He was quite surprised as there's
Speaker 4: almost no blood. Uh there's you know, a pool of
Speaker 4: it where where Marshall's head was, but other than that,
Speaker 4: there's no real much blood around. And he goes in
Speaker 4: and he glances around the inside, and he doesn't really
Speaker 4: do an inspection of the inside. The fellow who had
Speaker 4: taken charge was a local justice of the peace, and
Speaker 4: he told Morris View that they had he had done
Speaker 4: a quick and he had done a search of the
Speaker 4: house and found a couple of leather pouches of money,
Speaker 4: one with coins and another with with with dollar bills,
Speaker 4: with yeah, with big bills from the back of British Columbia,
Speaker 4: oh yeah, and Moresby on Marshall's body itself. Moresby had
Speaker 4: found a pouch that it was lying on Marshall's stomach,
Speaker 4: a pouch with about ten dollars in it, along with
Speaker 4: his pipe, so that it somehow it had either been
Speaker 4: taken out of his pocket. The pouch and that or
Speaker 4: it had come out of his pocket when he fell.
Speaker 4: And Moresby, you know, he said, he doesn't look much
Speaker 4: at the crime scene notices, you know notices. The thing
Speaker 4: he noticed most was the kitchen table had been set
Speaker 4: for two. There are a couple of plates in that.
Speaker 4: There were leftovers on the table. The chairs had been
Speaker 4: tipped over, the two chairs as if people had just
Speaker 4: gotten out from supper. So it's it's obvious two people
Speaker 4: had been sitting down having supper. There's always one curious
Speaker 4: clue that that sticks out. And he and this this
Speaker 4: and this, uh crime scene there was a pot of
Speaker 4: boiled potatoes, uh, stranded halfway between the stove and the table,
Speaker 4: so uh, and it was upright and everything. So he
Speaker 4: couldn't figure out how that got there. Nobody ever did.
Speaker 4: But Marshall Moresby then heads out and he has to
Speaker 4: go back down to the Anticton station and start organizing
Speaker 4: his investigation and notifying his superiors and so forth. And
Speaker 4: that starts his investigation going while corner pit and dry.
Speaker 4: Of course, the system is that the corner is there.
Speaker 4: He pulls, he pulls a jury of a half dozen
Speaker 4: or so people close around and they hold they hold
Speaker 4: a corner's inquest, but that night they view the body,
Speaker 4: and the next day you have the official corners in quest,
Speaker 4: and that those two things get the investigation going.
Speaker 6: Right now, you talk about Moresby taking over this investigation
Speaker 6: and a person named David Lucas, private investigator, getting involved.
Speaker 6: And also there had been someone named William Porter that
Speaker 6: spoke to Moresby and he had been ditching with Strobell
Speaker 6: at the Marshall Farm. I believe so there and Porter
Speaker 6: believed that or suspected that Albert was involved. And so
Speaker 6: how do Lucas and Moresby proceed with questioning Albert Strobel?
Speaker 4: Right, David Lucas is you know, he's one of those
Speaker 4: characters that that as a writer historian trew crime writer,
Speaker 4: you love to have on the sea. You know, he was.
Speaker 4: He was just like straight out of as I said, books,
Speaker 4: fit straight out of Central Casting, as if wyat Erb
Speaker 4: had walked onto the onto the stage, and in a
Speaker 4: lot of very similarities because Herb himself respected the law
Speaker 4: only as much as was convenient. Lucas was living in
Speaker 4: in Seamoss City. He moved there a few years earlier,
Speaker 4: and he he actually was the first marshal of the city.
Speaker 4: At first he was paid you know, properly by the
Speaker 4: city council. But with the economic boot bust of the
Speaker 4: previous year, as city council had to you know, they
Speaker 4: couldn't pay him full time. He had you know, he
Speaker 4: did bit work. You know, if he arrested somebody for
Speaker 4: you know, a city violation, and you'd get some money
Speaker 4: for that. So he had to go back to sell
Speaker 4: the milk and so forth. But he had been the
Speaker 4: marshal of Sumas City, and he actually had experience as
Speaker 4: a private investigator because his brother, Lucas's older brother had
Speaker 4: run one of the more successful private investigator companies on
Speaker 4: the West Coast, like the Pinkatoons, but not as big, uh,
Speaker 4: And his older brother was in well, actually Albert, I
Speaker 4: mean Lucas himself had various scrapes with the law themselves
Speaker 4: up on charges for well, his brother for you know,
Speaker 4: bribery and you know, mishandling client funds and kidnapping in
Speaker 4: all these things. So he, you know, David Lucas learned
Speaker 4: all these the tricks of the trade from his brother,
Speaker 4: and when he was Marshall of Sumass City, he was
Speaker 4: kind of allowed to do, uh, you know what he
Speaker 4: wanted to to keep the peace because in the boom
Speaker 4: years there was all kinds of you know, bars and
Speaker 4: brothels and gambling houses and everything in Sumas City and
Speaker 4: and the count the city councils thought, well, this this
Speaker 4: guy did Lucas, he's a perfect guy for this. You know,
Speaker 4: he'll go after you know, it doesn't much know about
Speaker 4: you know, right to the defend and and so forth,
Speaker 4: and those don't really matter that much. So actually Moresby
Speaker 4: was quite relieved. He didn't know Lucas from before. But
Speaker 4: he met Lucas at Marshall's house. Lucas had gone down
Speaker 4: there in the morning and Lucas phil mars Bien on
Speaker 4: everything and so forth. And from that time on the
Speaker 4: two of them then go back to go down to
Speaker 4: the Huntington station set up headquarters in the Huntington Hotel,
Speaker 4: and from that point on the two of them work
Speaker 4: together in the investigation of Stroggle, and they pretty much
Speaker 4: from that time Stroggle was their primary, was their primary
Speaker 4: suspect in that.
Speaker 6: That Jesus is an up. This Jesus as an opportunity
Speaker 6: just to stop for a second to talk about our
Speaker 6: sponsor which is fab fit Fun. Discover why over one
Speaker 6: million women are obsessed with this seasonal subscription box service.
Speaker 6: In every fab fit Fund box, you'll receive eight to
Speaker 6: ten full size items that range from beauty to home decor,
Speaker 6: to apparel, to jewelry and beyond every season. The Spring
Speaker 6: twenty twenty box has been revealed and is now on
Speaker 6: sale for a limited time. My wife Lisa is always
Speaker 6: excited about getting another fab fit Fun box. This time
Speaker 6: she ordered the makeup Finishing Spray from Scandinavia and she
Speaker 6: loves it now it's part of her daily routine essential,
Speaker 6: she says. She also chose glow wrinkle treatment by Revived
Speaker 6: Light Therapy and rapid collagen infusion by myurad Resurgence Surety
Speaker 6: uses the Goat Milk moisturizing cream by Kate Somerville, and
Speaker 6: she has incorporated these amazing fab fit Fund products into
Speaker 6: her everyday health routine. She's been hitting the gym three
Speaker 6: days a week feeling and looking healthier, and with her
Speaker 6: Fat fit Fun beauty and health products, she's looking and
Speaker 6: feeling even better. FAG Thanks Fat Fit Fun. These are
Speaker 6: just some of the products she's Lisa chose for herself
Speaker 6: The boxes are customizable. If you just want to get surprised, though,
Speaker 6: the fatfit Fund team will curate a selection of products
Speaker 6: just for you. Fabfit Fund is happiness delivered straight to
Speaker 6: your door each season. Choose from a variety of beauty,
Speaker 6: fashion and wellness products to customize your very own spring box.
Speaker 6: It retails for forty nine ninety nine but always has
Speaker 6: a value over two hundred. Use coupon code Murder for
Speaker 6: ten dollars off your first box at www dot fabfitfund
Speaker 6: dot com. Use coupon code murder for ten dollars off
Speaker 6: your first box at www dot fabfit fund dot com. Now, Chad,
Speaker 6: we were talking about the build up the impetus for
Speaker 6: Moresby and with the help of David Lucas to be
Speaker 6: able to arrest Albert Strobel for the murder of Marshall
Speaker 6: of uh So, what does it take to be able
Speaker 6: to you? You talk about this ruse that they did
Speaker 6: to lure him from from the US side to the
Speaker 6: Canadian side. Tell us how they did this and what
Speaker 6: was the ruse?
Speaker 4: Yeah, uh yeah, I mean one of the advantagers Moresby saw,
Speaker 4: of course, and having David Lucas as his un official
Speaker 4: partner was that, you know. Right from the start, they
Speaker 4: they suspected Strobble because Strobell had been seeing that day,
Speaker 4: the day of John Marshall's murder, when he was ditching
Speaker 4: with UH William Porter, he had flashed his revolver. He
Speaker 4: had carried a revolver with them, and he had been
Speaker 4: seen with a revolver. He was believed to be the
Speaker 4: last one to see Marshall U life. So Moresby sends
Speaker 4: Lucas down into Suma City because of course Moresby himself
Speaker 4: is authority was only north of line and Lucas is
Speaker 4: able to to to he picks up some cartridges from
Speaker 4: UH spent cartridges and live cartridges from Strobell's room, and
Speaker 4: outside his room, he tricks Strobell into handing over his gun,
Speaker 4: which which would be the most decisive UH piece of evidence,
Speaker 4: and then he goes down. At one point, UH Strobell
Speaker 4: is outside talking to some friends and Lucas comes up
Speaker 4: and he starts talking to him, and and stroves, oh,
Speaker 4: you're here to arrest me, aren't you, And Lucas says no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: I'm not. And so Lucas starts talking to him about
Speaker 4: the the investigation and he's teasing him with with you know,
Speaker 4: information about how they're going and how it's going and
Speaker 4: so forth. And as as he's doing this, they're walking south,
Speaker 4: and before Strobelle knows it, they're in front of the
Speaker 4: Huntington Hotel on the Canadian side, and and Lucas says, oh,
Speaker 4: why don't you come in and have a drink? You know,
Speaker 4: I'll treat you. And Strougle doesn't want to do that,
Speaker 4: but he's finally convinced and he gets, you know, a
Speaker 4: strawberry wine or some kind of very soft drink, and
Speaker 4: Lucas gets his his his bourbon, and then they come
Speaker 4: outside and Struggle thinks, so good, you know, I can
Speaker 4: go home now. And then, as you know, a couple
Speaker 4: of steps walking back, William Morrisby comes up behind him
Speaker 4: and puts his hand on Strobel's shoulder and arrests him
Speaker 4: there then in there for the murder of John Marshall.
Speaker 6: Right, so obviously this.
Speaker 4: Whole thing had been choreographed beforehand between Moresby and and
Speaker 4: Lucas to lower Scroble across the line so that Moresby
Speaker 4: could arrest him.
Speaker 6: How is it that they get the how does he
Speaker 6: trick him to get his gun. What's what's the again
Speaker 6: the ruse to talk about the gun. That's very interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So you know, one of these these, Lucas is
Speaker 4: going back and forth back and forth, uh, talking to
Speaker 4: Marsby at the Huntington Hotel, going into Sumas City to investigate.
Speaker 4: And during one of these he's talking with with Strobel
Speaker 4: just outside the city hotel and the corners in quest
Speaker 4: hadn't really come happened yet and you know, hot topsy
Speaker 4: results and so forth. But uh, Lucas says, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: I've just heard from the doctor that that the the
Speaker 4: gun that that killed Marshalls a forty four caliber. And
Speaker 4: Strobo lights up and says, oh, oh, well that that
Speaker 4: means me I only have a thirty eight caliber. And
Speaker 4: Lucas says, well, well can I see it? And Strobo,
Speaker 4: you know, he's thinking, oh, you know, I'll go get
Speaker 4: it and show him and convince him it's not the gun.
Speaker 4: So he goes up to his room, comes back down
Speaker 4: with the revolver and he shows it to Lucas and
Speaker 4: Lucas takes it, looks at it. See, you know, a
Speaker 4: couple have been fired, and you know, he could see
Speaker 4: that a couple of cartridges had been fired, and a
Speaker 4: couple were still in there, and he snaps it shut
Speaker 4: and he puts it in his pocket, and Strobe says,
Speaker 4: you can't do that. You can't take my revolver. And
Speaker 4: Luke says, oh wow, I'm just collecting everybody's around here.
Speaker 4: And at that point he turns around and goes down
Speaker 4: to back down to Huntington. The hotel I think isaid
Speaker 4: is Ryan.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you know this about me, but
Speaker 1: I'm a bit of a fun fanatic when I can.
Speaker 7: I like to work, but I like.
Speaker 5: It's a thing.
Speaker 1: And now the truth is out there, I can tell
Speaker 1: you about my favorite place to have fun, Chumba Casino.
Speaker 1: They have hundreds of social casino style games to choose from,
Speaker 1: with new games released each week. You can play for free, anytime, anywhere,
Speaker 1: and each day brings a new chance to collect daily bonuses.
Speaker 1: So join me and the fun. Sign up now at
Speaker 1: Chumba casino dot com.
Speaker 4: We're lost the terms conditions eighteen plus. And of course,
Speaker 4: that revolver would be the centerpiece of the prosecution case
Speaker 4: against Albert Strobel in the trials.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, let's talk about this gun. Just briefly. We got
Speaker 6: to talk about this trial because of course he's arrested
Speaker 6: and we will have to talk about his nemesis. This
Speaker 6: very interesting, David Franklin Iroley. But just briefly tell us
Speaker 6: about the state of the gun. This this is an
Speaker 6: ordinary gun and at the time of the term of
Speaker 6: ballistics expertise centered around that all guns like this, especially
Speaker 6: this common gun, were rusty. Just tell us briefly about
Speaker 6: this gun and the rustiness of it, and it's that's
Speaker 6: and its importance.
Speaker 4: It was a cheap, you know, generic gun, the trey gun.
Speaker 4: He wasn't a colt when or a smith and lesson
Speaker 4: or anything like that. Five bullet revolver thirty eight caliber,
Speaker 4: which was had by that time become the most common
Speaker 4: caliber for a revolver. It would have been fairly short
Speaker 4: barrow and you know Strobo got it. There's never he
Speaker 4: would never have cleaned it. He didn't have the proper
Speaker 4: cleaning tools, nor would he know how to clean it
Speaker 4: because he never had a gun before. He got it
Speaker 4: from a friend it is, and so who knows when
Speaker 4: it would have been cleaned before. And it was carried
Speaker 4: outside and inside. And if those guns aren't oiled and
Speaker 4: cleaned properly, they build rust up, rust and particularly rust
Speaker 4: in the barrel. And so most guns in the you know,
Speaker 4: the witnesses have say that most guns in the hands
Speaker 4: of you know, just your regular people, Joe, irregular people,
Speaker 4: would have rust in the barrel of some sort. And
Speaker 4: if it builds up, what happens is that the rust
Speaker 4: leaves marks on any bullets that are shot from the gun.
Speaker 4: And it was at the time gun experts, ballistics experts
Speaker 4: did not know. They knew that the rifling in a
Speaker 4: gun left marks on a bullet, but they didn't know that,
Speaker 4: you know, it was like a fingerprint, that no two
Speaker 4: barrels left the same marks on a gun. You know,
Speaker 4: we're familiar with that now too, Right, what did the
Speaker 4: ballistics tests say? And you know, the do the the
Speaker 4: do the marks match? And that wouldn't come until the
Speaker 4: nineteen twenties, extensive, extensive research that would show that that
Speaker 4: no two bullets fired from different guns would have the
Speaker 4: same marks. So what the Victorian ballistics experts, and they
Speaker 4: were there were no trained liistics experts, they were just guns.
Speaker 4: They would they would try to match guns by saying, well,
Speaker 4: you know, this one's heavily rusted. And I see these rust,
Speaker 4: these rust marks on the bullet, you know, from I
Speaker 4: test fired one, and there's a similar marks made by
Speaker 4: the rock on that one as the one that was
Speaker 4: dug out of you know, John Marshall's body. And that
Speaker 4: was how the whole, you know, the ballistics worked at
Speaker 4: that time.
Speaker 6: Let's get to this David Franklin, Iriley, why he's this,
Speaker 6: What is the relationship between him and Strobel and how
Speaker 6: does it come? And for what reason possibly would this
Speaker 6: person confess and what did he confess to?
Speaker 4: Yes, David Airly was fourteen years old. He was the
Speaker 4: oldest son of early family which had moved there in
Speaker 4: the eighteen nineties. His mom was sick and she was
Speaker 4: away and the sisters were away, so he was living
Speaker 4: in the house with his dad, who is a hard
Speaker 4: working carpenter, handyman and things, and is two younger brothers.
Speaker 4: And I mean, like I said, he was a disturbing
Speaker 4: little fellow. He and he took it into his head
Speaker 4: to torment struggle as much as he could, helping him
Speaker 4: with rocks all the time. And of course Strobel could
Speaker 4: never catch him because of his leg. But at some
Speaker 4: point Airily decided that he wanted to confess to the
Speaker 4: crime after it happened, and he said that he told Marsby,
Speaker 4: and then he told Moresby that that Strobell had come
Speaker 4: the night of the murder, and the two of them
Speaker 4: had gone up to Marshall's place and Struggle had gone in.
Speaker 4: He Airly was outside, heard a couple of shots, and
Speaker 4: Struggle came back with some money, and they headed back
Speaker 4: for Marsby. This was it right, This was the clincher.
Speaker 4: And he of course arrested Airly for being an accomplice
Speaker 4: to the murder and robbery. And the first trial went
Speaker 4: was a trial against Strobl and Airly, so even though
Speaker 4: the two of them were enemies, they faced the charges
Speaker 4: together during the first trial, by which time Airly had
Speaker 4: withdrawn his confession, this lengthy confession that he had given
Speaker 4: to Morrisby, and he had told another like while they
Speaker 4: were waiting in prison. He had told another prisoner. The
Speaker 4: reason why he they concocted this story was he thought
Speaker 4: that Moresby would bring him to Newestminster and put him
Speaker 4: up in a nice hotel and pay him three dollars
Speaker 4: and fifty cents a day for being a witness, and
Speaker 4: so that something wasn't quite right, and this guy in
Speaker 4: this guy's mind and he let it added in a
Speaker 4: very fascinating twist to the whole to the whole thing. Now,
Speaker 4: in the first trial, it all falls apart. I mean,
Speaker 4: this guy gets up on the stand. Oh no, he yeah,
Speaker 4: he he can't go, he can't. Sorry. The law had
Speaker 4: just changed so that now defendant defendants could testify at
Speaker 4: their own trial. Up until then, defendants couldn't. And so
Speaker 4: he gets up in the stand and it's pretty obvious
Speaker 4: from the get go that this this guy just full
Speaker 4: of full of it right, his story is completely concocted
Speaker 4: and so forth, And so the Crown drops the charges
Speaker 4: against him. But that harms their case so much that
Speaker 4: in the first trial that that you're is a hung
Speaker 4: jury they can't decide on the charges against Strobel, mostly
Speaker 4: because Airly had so screwed up that the Crown's case.
Speaker 6: You talk about the first trial though, with the ability
Speaker 6: for a defendant to take the stand in his own defense,
Speaker 6: you write that the jurors at that time expected, because
Speaker 6: of this law, that they expected the defendants to take
Speaker 6: the stand. So if they didn't, so it was that
Speaker 6: you didn't have to, but if you didn't, the jury
Speaker 6: would look unfavorably upon the defendant because of it. And
Speaker 6: Strobull testified at the first trial as well. Yeah, and
Speaker 6: like you said, like you say, in this trial he
Speaker 6: was represented by a very competent attorney named Allie Morrison.
Speaker 6: And as you write, the kind of vigorous defense that
Speaker 6: he employed at this trial was unusual at the time.
Speaker 6: And you say that that the judicial system wanted a
Speaker 6: much more decorum to the to to to the proceedings
Speaker 6: in court, and so that right from the very beginning,
Speaker 6: the judge McCrate looked unfavorably on Morrison for his tactics
Speaker 6: in defending Albert Strobel, didn't he.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that was more at play in the
Speaker 4: second trial where Morrison. Morrison had to become very aggressive
Speaker 4: in the second trial. The first trial, he was. Morrison
Speaker 4: was a sharp attorney. He was when we think of
Speaker 4: a defense lawyer, you know, kind of like a pit bull.
Speaker 4: He fit that mold very much and that that was
Speaker 4: his his natural ability back then. That was found the
Speaker 4: point because of course, you know, the court of law
Speaker 4: be respectful and everybody's respectful and so forth, and that
Speaker 4: style would would really come into play more in the
Speaker 4: second trial in the first. But yes, I mean putting,
Speaker 4: putting struggle on the stand in a sense. This was
Speaker 4: the first case that Morrison tried where his defendant went
Speaker 4: to the stand, so he wasn't experienced in this, but
Speaker 4: he didn't know. I mean, these these he HiT's the
Speaker 4: eighteen nineties and it's like, well, if you're innocent, you
Speaker 4: have nothing to hide. I mean, people still say that,
Speaker 4: and I can't believe that they do, because it's just
Speaker 4: not true. Everybody has something to hide, that's our right
Speaker 4: to And you know, the farmers and the merchants that
Speaker 4: sat on the jury said, well, we want to the
Speaker 4: o Their innocence is almost more about your you know,
Speaker 4: are you're a moral person or not? And if you're
Speaker 4: you're a moral person, you'll get up there and you'll
Speaker 4: defend yourself. And all in all the other trials at
Speaker 4: the assize, the defendants got up and testified, even in
Speaker 4: at the trial and actually the trial that happened just before,
Speaker 4: when the guy was obviously guilty and there was no
Speaker 4: chance of him getting off. Even in that case, he
Speaker 4: got up and and and testified and struggled it. It
Speaker 4: was a long time and he did actually did surprisingly
Speaker 4: well given his his limitations. But Davy, and this is
Speaker 4: Peter Davy's second time he had a witness in the
Speaker 4: defendant in in the box. He was very good. But
Speaker 4: it just like the case just was sputtering and at
Speaker 4: that point.
Speaker 6: So its.
Speaker 4: No go ahead.
Speaker 6: Sorry. They deserved to have an acquittal because of of
Speaker 6: Ireley's confession and poor performance on the stand, but also
Speaker 6: that it is tied struggle to the murder, and without
Speaker 6: without with the acquittal or with the throwing out of
Speaker 6: the charges against Irely, then it seemed preposterous to to
Speaker 6: have it connected use that same evidence that's been discredited
Speaker 6: to then convict him of this murder. Now many times,
Speaker 6: right go ahead, go ahead, they used that.
Speaker 4: I mean they had to fall back on the gun,
Speaker 4: right matching the gun and test was done, a bullet
Speaker 4: was fired from that gun and then that bullet was
Speaker 4: compared to the bullet that came out of Struggle of
Speaker 4: Marcials neck, and the Crown argued, you know it was
Speaker 4: close enough. You know they're a match, and if they're
Speaker 4: a match, then he's guilty. And so they fell back
Speaker 4: on that. But you know, in that day and age
Speaker 4: direct evidence. You know, he's they talk about direct evidence
Speaker 4: and circumstantial evidence. Nowadays, what we think of his direct
Speaker 4: evidence is physical evidence. You know, that bullet matching the
Speaker 4: bullet to the gun is direct evidence. Back then, the
Speaker 4: notion of direct evidence is eyewitness evidence. And so when
Speaker 4: they're direct evidence, that is Airly's eyewitness testimony. When that
Speaker 4: falls apart, their case falls apart because their direct evidence
Speaker 4: falls apart. So it was a different legal climate very
Speaker 4: much at the time.
Speaker 6: You have Theodore Davey too, learning from this first trial
Speaker 6: as well and being able to use for the second trial.
Speaker 6: And as you're writ in the book, is very surprising
Speaker 6: to see the trial scheduled for so soon. There was
Speaker 6: a possibility that the trial would be be delayed for
Speaker 6: six months. They said, let's change this venue. Let's take
Speaker 6: it from New Westminster to Victoria, you know, across to
Speaker 6: the island to Victoria. And at the same time, what
Speaker 6: was interesting is that strobel with this deadlock jury, he
Speaker 6: thought he was acquitted. That's how he stunned. This guy
Speaker 6: was about what was going on. So he actually thought
Speaker 6: that this was a big victory for himself. But this
Speaker 6: next trial was scheduled for two weeks only two weeks later,
Speaker 6: wasn't it?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 6: Yes, So now what changes in this second trial in
Speaker 6: terms of both people being prepared because some of the
Speaker 6: similar witnesses an evidence was still germane to this second
Speaker 6: trial very much about the guns, about the bullets being
Speaker 6: found by David Lucas. Tell us a little bit about
Speaker 6: the David Lucas discovery of these bullets and what was
Speaker 6: questionable about that and what Allie Morrison was limited by
Speaker 6: in terms of hiring a gun expert and what really
Speaker 6: qualified as expertise in firearms at that time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, all of the important evidence used in
Speaker 4: the case. The physical evidence was collected by David Lucas
Speaker 4: and it was just collected, taken He stored it for
Speaker 4: two weeks in a trunk and then handed it over
Speaker 4: to Morrisby. And the really questioned the evidence that raised
Speaker 4: eyebrows of Morrison was were the two empty cartridges that
Speaker 4: morris that Lucas found beneath the window of a of
Speaker 4: Strobos hotel room. Now it had been raining. This is
Speaker 4: November December. You're back in Ontario, so you just know
Speaker 4: we got rain. It had been raining and the streets
Speaker 4: were muddy, and somehow Lucas found these two empty cartridges
Speaker 4: right underneath strobos window, lying in a kind of a
Speaker 4: you know, wet mud. They were lying right on top
Speaker 4: of the mud, and they were clean, bright and clean.
Speaker 4: So one, they were clean after all this time out
Speaker 4: there in the mud. And two nobody, you know, the
Speaker 4: police had inspected this alley before and they hadn't found
Speaker 4: these cartridges, and that becomes an issue. Of course, Morrison
Speaker 4: brings it up in both trials, especially in the second trial,
Speaker 4: where he accuses Lucas of planting them, of planting those
Speaker 4: two cartridges, and those those become the cartridges that you know,
Speaker 4: in the jury's mind, or the question is, of course,
Speaker 4: well these are the cartridges that that Strougle would have
Speaker 4: taken out. It's a revolver, so when if you fire it,
Speaker 4: the cartridge doesn't eject, as opposed like an automatic handgun.
Speaker 4: The car the empty cartridge stayed inside the gun. And
Speaker 4: so the presumpt a Crown was arguing Strogo took the
Speaker 4: two the two cartridges, empty cartridges that he had shot
Speaker 4: Marshall with, took him mind of the gun and threw
Speaker 4: him outside his window. Morrison was saying, well, you know
Speaker 4: they're clean, they're sitting on top there. These these have
Speaker 4: been planted. And like I said, you know, Lucas just
Speaker 4: he's a character that keeps giving in a story. He's
Speaker 4: asked well what made you look in in the alley
Speaker 4: at this time? Because Lucas was going all around Sumas
Speaker 4: City in the day two three days after the shooting
Speaker 4: looking for evidence and he was he was asked well
Speaker 4: what made you look in the alley at this time?
Speaker 4: And he said, well, he had dreamed about he had
Speaker 4: dreamt about it. He had dreamt about the cartridge is
Speaker 4: sitting in the alley, and Morrison's just you know when
Speaker 4: when he said that, it was just quite the reaction
Speaker 4: he has. He asked Lucas, well, what what religion are you,
Speaker 4: mister Lucas, And he said, well, I used to try
Speaker 4: being a Christian, but I'm not a spiritualist. Now now
Speaker 4: I'm now I'm now I belong to the the Idfellows.
Speaker 4: So it was it was quite the funny funny and exchange.
Speaker 6: Now with this here you have with fascinating is Judge
Speaker 6: Walkin's behavior at the second trial. Now you write it this,
Speaker 6: it's interesting because this is new territory where you have
Speaker 6: it a defended testify on the stand in his own defense.
Speaker 6: So Albert Strobo got up and they had the benefit Davy,
Speaker 6: Theodore Davy had the benefit of his first confession or
Speaker 6: his first appearance, so that that was transcribed. So he
Speaker 6: was he had a strobble off balance with the little
Speaker 6: gaps or inconsistencies that he had in his in his
Speaker 6: in his testimony. But what's most important and surprising and
Speaker 6: shocking was that Judge Walkin basically interrupted Morrison, which he
Speaker 6: was now really peeved at because he said that Morrison
Speaker 6: was was denigrating these respectable witnesses character and their credibility
Speaker 6: was questioned. So what he did, in effect was not
Speaker 6: allow Morrison to give to allow a direct examination of
Speaker 6: Albert Strobel and in effect interrupting constantly. As you write,
Speaker 6: he acted like a cross examination, the judge acting as
Speaker 6: a cross examiner rather than the prosecution itself. Tell us
Speaker 6: a little bit more about this behavior and how unusual
Speaker 6: it was.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean it was. Strobel's testimony was one of
Speaker 4: the two decisive factors in a second trial. The other
Speaker 4: wise a more convincing link between his revolver and one
Speaker 4: of the book would see and Marshall because Davey had
Speaker 4: done his work better on that and that evidence was
Speaker 4: presented better. But the other decisive part, and Davy admits afterwards,
Speaker 4: was was strobles testimony. The first if you think by
Speaker 4: raising rout, was when Walcome allowed Strobel's full testimony from
Speaker 4: the first trial, when he allowed for it to be
Speaker 4: read three hours of reading into the record in the
Speaker 4: second trial. So not only did Davy have access to
Speaker 4: that you know, transcript, but now the jurors hurt his
Speaker 4: testimony in trial number one. So when when Strobel then
Speaker 4: now has to get onto the stand to defend himself
Speaker 4: and he's kept on the stand for you know, I
Speaker 4: think eight or nine hours over two days, and literally
Speaker 4: to stand. He wasn't allowed to sit, and witnesses weren't
Speaker 4: allowed to sit except for women witnesses, women and girls
Speaker 4: that were brought in to testify. And during that testimony,
Speaker 4: you know, they most of it was taken up four
Speaker 4: or five hours were taken up by uh uh Davy
Speaker 4: and the rest of the time was taken up by
Speaker 4: welcome questioning the judge questioning struggle. Morrison got very little
Speaker 4: time to question him. He would he would set up
Speaker 4: and start struggle, going with with the story, and then
Speaker 4: a few minutes in Welcome would start directly questioning Struggle.
Speaker 4: So during the time when Strogo is supposed to be
Speaker 4: question and by his own defense counsel and had to
Speaker 4: have the opportunity to give his version during that time,
Speaker 4: Welcome intervened and took over the questioning and you know,
Speaker 4: on each step in each of the details. And then
Speaker 4: Davy it was Davy's turn to cross so called cross examine.
Speaker 4: So out of those nine hours, almost all of it
Speaker 4: was cross examination by the judge and cross examination by
Speaker 4: the Crown Council and you know, a very very little
Speaker 4: questioning examination by his own council. And the reason is
Speaker 4: that there are no precedents. This was the second trial
Speaker 4: and British plump, well, well now it's the fourth, third
Speaker 4: or fourth trial where the defendant is to testify. There's
Speaker 4: the new Criminal Code didn't specify what the rules were
Speaker 4: when a defendant was testifying, and there was no common
Speaker 4: law precedent that said, well, you know, the judge can't
Speaker 4: just step in and grill like this, So there were
Speaker 4: no legal protections that would guarantee the defendant the right
Speaker 4: to just unimpeded give his version of events.
Speaker 6: Now, let's talk about the verdict and what happens with
Speaker 6: this case. Obviously he's convicted, but tell us about the
Speaker 6: public reaction and about the press reaction to this verdict,
Speaker 6: and also the reaction from Margaret Bartlett, Elizabeth Bartlett and
Speaker 6: from Strouble himself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, the reaction to the verdict was amongst
Speaker 4: the public, it was actually quite split amongst in the
Speaker 4: gallery of the court room itself, you had booze as
Speaker 4: well as cheers amongst you know, readers in Victoria, New
Speaker 4: Westminster or whatever who following the trial you had to
Speaker 4: split as well. And as soon as the verdict came
Speaker 4: down there was there were moves to start a petition
Speaker 4: for an appeal. And the newspapers themselves were strongly like
Speaker 4: they actually did a very very good job and even
Speaker 4: had a job of presenting the testimony without comment. So
Speaker 4: you had these long, long columns of the trial coverage
Speaker 4: where it was very accurate. But once once the verdict
Speaker 4: came in, they you know, they were able to say, yeah,
Speaker 4: we told you so, we we said he was guilty
Speaker 4: from way back and you know, so all of the
Speaker 4: press was supported the verdict. Half of the public did,
Speaker 4: half didn't. Margaret Strobell and Margaret and Elizabeth Bartlett where
Speaker 4: you know, Elizabeth Bartlett collapsed crying. Margaret Strobell, uh as well,
Speaker 4: Margaret Bartlett as well. Sorry. Strobell himself didn't react at first,
Speaker 4: and then as he's being carried out, it kind of
Speaker 4: hit him that that he had never believed up to
Speaker 4: the point that he would be convicted because he thought
Speaker 4: that he could talk his way out of out of everything.
Speaker 4: But as he was being carried out, he started, you know,
Speaker 4: yelling and screaming and pro dad, h doesn't matter, but
Speaker 4: you know, you know, it's okay, it doesn't matter, and
Speaker 4: so forth. So it finally hit him and he he
Speaker 4: showed some emotion and the defiance in the face of
Speaker 4: the verdict, so that that was the immediate reaction to
Speaker 4: the verdict.
Speaker 6: Now this we talked about Strobell being emotionally delayed or slow.
Speaker 6: He meets with Elizabeth because this love of his life,
Speaker 6: and you had mentioned before that he was told by
Speaker 6: the mother, Margaret, that if this wouldn't happened, he would
Speaker 6: have been married, you know, So talk about the conversation
Speaker 6: and talk about the conversation that Elizabeth had with Strobell
Speaker 6: and what she asked him, and who was also listening
Speaker 6: at that same time, and what did they do as
Speaker 6: a result.
Speaker 4: Yes, Elizabeth visited Struggle the day I believe it was
Speaker 4: the day after the conviction. I visited him in prison.
Speaker 4: He was he was kept apart from the regular population
Speaker 4: on the equivalent of death row in in New Westminster jail.
Speaker 4: And she was escorted to his cell. And actually it's
Speaker 4: not like the guards went away or one of the
Speaker 4: people escorting her was the Superintendent of Police, Frederick Hussey.
Speaker 4: And she asked, and you know, you know, did he
Speaker 4: do it, because she had all along said no, you know,
Speaker 4: she believed that he didn't do it, and he all
Speaker 4: along said he didn't. And at this point he admitted
Speaker 4: that yes, he had shot her, Marshall, but he said,
Speaker 4: but it was because of you, and she, you know,
Speaker 4: she was shocked, of course, as shocked as with it.
Speaker 4: And he says, well, what do you mean because of me?
Speaker 4: You know, well, we argued over you, and she said,
Speaker 4: well you shouldn't have argued. You should have just let
Speaker 4: it go anyway, And so the guards and Hussey heard this.
Speaker 4: And what Hussy does is he gets her into he
Speaker 4: was taking notes. He gets her into a side room
Speaker 4: and he has a statement that of of what they
Speaker 4: just said, that that struggle had told told her Elizabeth
Speaker 4: that he had shot her and so and he gets
Speaker 4: her to sign. Hussey gets her to sign the statement, right,
Speaker 4: so you know, it's it's a it's a confession. And
Speaker 4: then a number of he confesses to the newspaper reporter,
Speaker 4: he confesses to to his lawyer. They try to get
Speaker 4: it all, you know, Morrison tries to get control of this,
Speaker 4: but it aspires out of control. He eventually confesses to Hussie.
Speaker 4: Each time his story agets though. He says he shot Marshall,
Speaker 4: but it was because they had had a fight and
Speaker 4: Marshall came at him angry and that's why he shot him.
Speaker 4: So it was like self defense, is how he was
Speaker 4: arguing with his in these confessions. But they were confessions. Nonetheless,
Speaker 4: they were saying something that he had denied for nine months.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he had said that Marshall said something derogatory about Elizabeth,
Speaker 6: and so then that was the argument ensued and he
Speaker 6: was enraged to the point of murder here, but Morrison
Speaker 6: tried to do his very best for a client that
Speaker 6: he felt was innocent, and then I think a client
Speaker 6: that he felt didn't get a fair try well because
Speaker 6: of the judge's behavior and the missteps by his own
Speaker 6: client itself. But to no avail would he keep his
Speaker 6: mouth shut, so he really couldn't be helped at all.
Speaker 6: And there really wasn't there. Really, there wasn't. Even though
Speaker 6: he had a hearing about this evidence it really it
Speaker 6: would It didn't make any difference in this, did it.
Speaker 6: People lost all kinds of sympathy for him. Believed he
Speaker 6: was guilty.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, as soon as the confession came out, there's
Speaker 4: support for him completely evaporated, you know, mainly because he
Speaker 4: had been he had been so adamant that he hadn't
Speaker 4: been there at all that night, and so people who
Speaker 4: had supported him now say, well, he said, you lied.
Speaker 4: You know, we don't care in a sense now that
Speaker 4: you change your story completely that you actually did, whether
Speaker 4: it was for self defense or not, you lied. So
Speaker 4: all of that public support for him vanished. And there
Speaker 4: was this hearing, but in a lot of ways it
Speaker 4: was an improper hearing. There was no public at the time.
Speaker 4: There was no avenue to appeal a conviction. There wasn't
Speaker 4: an appeal court. There was an they could you could
Speaker 4: make an appeal on a point of law, but there
Speaker 4: was none none of those in the case either. So
Speaker 4: Struggle thought, okay, well that didn't work. I you know,
Speaker 4: my being saying it innocent didn't work. Now if I
Speaker 4: confess and just explain that, you know, then they'll they'll
Speaker 4: either let me go or they won't execute me. Well,
Speaker 4: there is no provision to let him go. There's only
Speaker 4: one thing left that would save him from being executed,
Speaker 4: and that was that every murder conviction was sent to
Speaker 4: the Justice Department in Ottawa, and they had the Cabinet
Speaker 4: had to approve it, and that the Governor General had
Speaker 4: to approve it. And it was at that point all
Speaker 4: the information was sent to them, the trial notes, all
Speaker 4: that stuff, and they had the power to commute the
Speaker 4: sentence to life in prison or to let the sentence stand.
Speaker 4: That was the only avenue he had at that point.
Speaker 4: And he didn't I mean, you know, he's not a lawyer.
Speaker 4: He didn't understand that. He still thought he could talk
Speaker 4: his way out of it. But there was there were
Speaker 4: no provisions you know to go. Even even with what
Speaker 4: we would see as the flagrant violations in law at
Speaker 4: the time, they weren't because there were no there was
Speaker 4: no law and there had been no case law to say, well,
Speaker 4: this is the way defendants are supposed to be treated
Speaker 4: when they're in the witness books. This is the law,
Speaker 4: this is the new law. You can't use the transcript
Speaker 4: from a previous you know. And and Morrison's argument, which
Speaker 4: actually was quite a good one, was that Strobel's testimony
Speaker 4: from the first trial was voluntary, he didn't have to
Speaker 4: make it, and he argued, you can't use that in
Speaker 4: this this trial. But he was overruled, so there there
Speaker 4: was no question of law and there there was no
Speaker 4: havenue to appeal, right.
Speaker 6: This has been very fascinating talking about the trials of
Speaker 6: Albert Strobel. Needless to say, his u his protestations didn't
Speaker 6: work out and he was executed. I want to thank
Speaker 6: you very much for coming on and talking about the
Speaker 6: trials of Albert Strobel. Love, murder and justice at the
Speaker 6: end of the frontier. I know this is a Caitlin
Speaker 6: Press release. Caitlinpress dot com tell us how they might
Speaker 6: find out more information about this case. And find out
Speaker 6: more more about this book.
Speaker 4: Well, find out more about the book is is you
Speaker 4: know buy it?
Speaker 6: Yes, I have to put that plug in.
Speaker 4: Uh. It's available on Amazon, on Indigo and probably that
Speaker 4: public libraries will I know that the Toronto Public Library
Speaker 4: is ordered a copy or too, I don't know, but
Speaker 4: some of the others there Indigo of course connected through
Speaker 4: Cole's books can press dot com. It has a basic
Speaker 4: description yet of the description of the book and and
Speaker 4: the blurbs on the back and you can see the
Speaker 4: cover and that so if if if viewers want to
Speaker 4: go there and take a look at that, and I
Speaker 4: can say, I mean it's available for ordering and any
Speaker 4: of the you know, the major the major online store places.
Speaker 6: Absolutely well. I want to thank you very much, Chad
Speaker 6: Reimer for the trials of Albert Strobel, love, murder and
Speaker 6: justice at the end of the Frontier. It's been a
Speaker 6: real pleasure. Thank you so much. And uh, I hope
Speaker 6: you have a great night.
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 6: Thank you very much. Good night, good night.