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We're promited to 21 00:00:58.320 --> 00:00:59.679 my eighteen plus terms and conditioned to plus. 22 00:00:59.799 --> 00:01:02.200 What's loop to Radio. 23 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.680 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 24 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.799 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 25 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:25.159 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 26 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:28.879 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 27 00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:33.159 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 28 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:37.079 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 29 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:50.680 Good Evening. In April eighteen ninety three, John Marshall, an 30 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:54.599 immigrant and successful farmer on Summus Prairie in British Columbia, 31 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:58.760 was found dead lying sprawled across the verandah of his farmhouse. 32 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:03.280 The face was a mess, his nose smashed in and cracked, 33 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:07.519 blood covering his forehead around a jagged black hole. The 34 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:11.319 shocked neighbor who discovered the body rushed to summon the authorities. 35 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:17.080 An autopsy, coroner's inquest, and murder investigation followed. Two days later, 36 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:21.039 a handyman named Albert Strobel was arrested for Marshall's murder. 37 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:26.800 Strubble was an unlikely killer. Short and physically disabled, The 38 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:29.360 young man the community knew was not capable of murder, 39 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:31.680 and locals were shocked to imagine that Strobel could have 40 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.560 killed the man who had treated him like family, but 41 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:37.879 something had gone tragically wrong on the night Marshal died. 42 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:41.560 Unraveling the mystery would take nine months and two lengthy 43 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:43.879 trials that seized the attention on both sides of the 44 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:49.599 Canadian American border, splitting them into pro and anti Strobo factions. 45 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:54.639 Newspapers devoted page after page of coverage and throngs of 46 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:58.800 spectators squeezed into the courtroom galleries. The first trial in 47 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:03.159 New Westminster ended with the jury hopelessly deadlocked. The second 48 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:06.360 in Victoria found him guilty and set an impending date 49 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:10.800 for his execution. The heaviest, heaviest hitters of b c's 50 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.039 political and legal established establishment took part, including former and 51 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:19.479 current premiers, an Attorney General, and a future Supreme Court justice. 52 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:23.000 When the second trial ended with a guilty verdict and 53 00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:26.960 death sentence, many in the public hold in protest, convinced 54 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:29.039 that a young man had been condemned to die for 55 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:33.080 a crime he did not commit, and the dramatic events 56 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:36.719 would not stop there. With the condemned man sitting on 57 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:40.520 death row, the case would take more twists and turns 58 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:44.159 that would lead Albert Strobel to the Shadow of the Gallows. 59 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:47.960 The book that were featuring this evening is The Trials 60 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:51.840 of Albert Strobel, Love, Murder and Justice at the End 61 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:55.840 of the Frontier with my special guest author, Chad Rhymer. 62 00:03:56.280 --> 00:03:58.520 Welcome to the programme and thank you very much for 63 00:03:58.599 --> 00:03:59.039 this interview. 64 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:03.080 Chad Ryme, Well, thank you for having me on. 65 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:07.080 Man, Thank you very much. It's a very fascinating case, 66 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:11.520 very very interesting when we set it in the timeframe 67 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:15.080 of the eighteen nineties in Canada on the along the 68 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:20.399 Canada US border. Tell us a little bit about the 69 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:25.839 Summus Prairie of British Columbia. Set the stage for a 70 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.199 little bit of the history of this area and just 71 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:34.600 where this geographically is on this Canadian American border. Tell 72 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:35.319 us where this is. 73 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:42.959 Right today. It's actually there's a town called Huntington which 74 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:47.319 is south of Abbotsford, British Columbia, and both of those 75 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:52.079 are about a forty five minute drive east of Vancouver, 76 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:57.519 British Columbia. And you come down out of Vancouver and 77 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:03.160 you come off Arise in the Fraser Valley and you 78 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:09.480 go down onto this this prairie, Seumass prairie, and it's 79 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:14.279 the event that took place right right along just as 80 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:19.120 you come down onto the bottom of the prairie back 81 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:23.319 and right now at Huntington's it's a border crossing. Huntington 82 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:25.839 is the Canadian side of the border crossing, and then 83 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:30.560 Seumas City is the American side, and a railroad, a 84 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:36.800 couple of railroads go straight north south, connecting missions across 85 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:39.480 the Fraser River to the north and then going south 86 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:46.600 into the United States. In the eighteen nineties, that prairie 87 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:52.079 was very, very lightly settled. It's actually quite remarkable how recent, 88 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:57.399 how recent it was that there were so few people 89 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:03.199 around on the prairie, you know, so few white settlers, 90 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:07.040 and of course the native people's had been set it 91 00:06:07.319 --> 00:06:11.560 pushed aside, dispossessed of the land, and pushed onto reserve lands. 92 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:15.600 In the Sumass Prairie, the dominating feature on the prairie 93 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.800 to the east was was a wide lake, a lake 94 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:25.360 that spanned from one side of the prairie along Seumass 95 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:28.519 Mountain to the other side of the prairie along Better 96 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:33.759 Mountain about four miles or six kilometers across, and then 97 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:39.160 about six miles nine kilometers long. That was called Seumass 98 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:42.279 Lake that was there at the time. It was drained 99 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:45.839 in the nineteen twenties, So that was a dominating feature. 100 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:49.560 Dominating feature to to you know, the one side and 101 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:54.199 then the other side is this sharp escarpment that that 102 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:57.759 came down from from the west. That's where the edge 103 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:04.040 of the last ice they h went. And the events 104 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:08.079 that that were happening that that we talked about happened 105 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:12.000 on the western edge of that prairie. And just after 106 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:17.759 two years after the Canadian Pacific Railway had built a 107 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:22.639 spur line from Mission which is on the north side 108 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:26.879 of the Fraser Valley straight they built a bridge and 109 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:30.839 then straight down south to hook up with the Northern 110 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:39.639 Pacific Railway that came across in in Washington State. And 111 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:43.879 the railway itself kind of sparked a bit of a boom, 112 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.959 and then the boom kind of faded after a little while, 113 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:52.720 but it mostly developed the Sumas City on the American side. 114 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:57.879 And so the Sumas City was the town that that 115 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.800 even all the Canadians on the north of the board 116 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:04.800 they would go if they needed the doctor, if they 117 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:07.360 wanted to go shopping, they would go into Sumas City 118 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:11.079 because there was no other real town around the habits 119 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:14.839 heard what didn't marriage as a real town for quite 120 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:19.720 a while. Chiliac was across Sumass Lake. So these people 121 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:23.959 the Sumas Prairie, it was, you know, their life was 122 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:27.959 more north south, and they went across the line as 123 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:31.720 if the line didn't exist kind of thing. And actually 124 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:36.120 from any white settlers, about half of them were actually Americans, 125 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:39.120 so they thought, well, we don't have to recognize this 126 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:49.919 line at all. So and the geography topography was actually 127 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:52.559 it was a mixture. It was on the very edge 128 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:58.840 of rich grasslands which were produced because Sumass Lake grew 129 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:01.919 every year with a fla and then and then went away, 130 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:05.480 and they produced these these grasslands. And on the grasslands 131 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:10.120 he had the sheet they cattle and dairy cattle, beef cattle. 132 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:14.399 By the time you get closer to where the railroad 133 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:17.679 was and where all these events take place, it was 134 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:22.279 more marshy and boggy and bush and in bushy and 135 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:26.000 and so it was very, very difficult to make it 136 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:29.840 a go of farming. And so the farmer like a victim. 137 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:34.279 We John Marshall, you know, he was one of the 138 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:38.480 most successful, actually, but it was still you know, a 139 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:43.559 hard slog for him. And you also had, you know, 140 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:47.639 like every frontier, you had the population. The white population 141 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:51.440 was very recent, and he had people coming and going 142 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:56.399 on with time. And Marshall had been there for ten 143 00:09:56.480 --> 00:09:59.840 years and he was an old timer. And the men 144 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:05.039 then the young man arrested for his his his murder. 145 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:09.399 Albert Strobel, he also had had been there, you know, 146 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.279 almost ten years. His family had come and he had 147 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.080 bounced back and forth across the border. It lived most 148 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:20.919 mostly on the BC side. His family lost their property 149 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:24.240 and then he had hit a year or two before. 150 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:28.080 He had moved back into the American side, the Sumas 151 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:32.360 City side. But like I say, every day people were 152 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:35.279 walking up and down and there was no good road, 153 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:38.960 so they used the railroad to walk up and down, 154 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:43.000 going you know, from Sumas Prairie and Canadian side to 155 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:47.840 sum Mass City. And you know the events of the 156 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:51.720 book that you know, you're constantly moving back across up 157 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:56.200 and down that railway line, and it kind of, you know, 158 00:10:56.559 --> 00:10:58.919 it becomes a character in itself in the in the 159 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.600 in the in the book that that line itself, it's 160 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:07.679 connecting directly connects Albert Strobel's hotel that he's staying in 161 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:13.360 to John Marshall's property which has a gate right at 162 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:18.559 the railway yard railway uh bed that you know, you'd 163 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:24.240 go off and go into his property. But that's kind 164 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.480 of the economic and uh and the physical setting for 165 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:28.480 for the events. 166 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:34.080 Now, tell us about the relationship between Albert and this 167 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:38.279 Portuguese immigrant which had difficulty, you know, had a thick accident, 168 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:42.039 and so tell us about this unlikely friendship and what 169 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:43.639 that friendship entailed. 170 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:45.799 Uh. 171 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.840 Yes, they actually were quite well. I don't know if 172 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:52.720 close would be a good good term for it, but 173 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.200 Strobo was one of the most frequent visitors to to 174 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:04.480 John Marshall's place. He would come up and he would 175 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:08.120 he would come up and help with the with the 176 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:13.799 chores in the house. He would help with some of 177 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:20.759 the chores around the farmyard as well. They were both 178 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:28.919 kind of outsiders in amongst the Sumass Prairie community. Marshall 179 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:33.600 because he was Portuguese and there was very strong racism 180 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:38.960 at the time for you know, Southern Europeans and Portuguese 181 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:44.039 in particular. He actually came from the Azora's Islands off 182 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:48.200 of Portugal, so his accident would have been more stronger, 183 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:53.480 more regional Portuguese. He was known as the old man 184 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:55.759 and the old man that was killed, and yet he 185 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:59.320 actually was only about thirty eight or thirty nine, and 186 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:03.080 it's kind of like he the descriptions of him, you 187 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:05.000 get the sense, well, this is kind of like an 188 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:07.840 exotic guy. You know, we don't really know much about him, 189 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:10.759 and but you know, so we can describe them the 190 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:18.000 way we want. And then Strobo was an outsider, partly 191 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:21.080 because of his family, I mean his he came from 192 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.120 a broken family. His mother had died a couple of 193 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:27.000 couple of years, but a few years before the events, 194 00:13:27.799 --> 00:13:33.559 he had a half dozen siblings that were still with him. 195 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:40.440 His father kind of lost it after his mother died. 196 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:45.480 He was a veteran of the Civil War, and he 197 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:51.399 was a German immigrant himself had come to Illinois and 198 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:56.039 that's where Strobo was born, and the family had come 199 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:01.240 to out West in the eighteen eighties. And his father 200 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.480 was very restless. He didn't stay at any one particular thing. 201 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:10.759 He was continually going off, leaving the kids to take 202 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:14.919 care of themselves. He had a problem with alcohol, as 203 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:19.360 invariably so many did, because it was well as you 204 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:24.519 could buy very strong alcohol back then unregulated, and he 205 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:32.279 really disappeared by the time these events took place, and 206 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:33.840 so his family was poor. 207 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.039 Not wait the Lucky Landslips. You can get lucky just 208 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:39.960 about anywhere. 209 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:43.720 This's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 210 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:45.600 weather's five. But we're just going to circle up here 211 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:48.639 a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. 212 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.159 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 213 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:53.559 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 214 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:56.039 and start getting lucky pay for. 215 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.320 Free at Lucky landslipes dot com. Are you feeling lucky? 216 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:03.519 Just necessary voidwerre prohibited by Law eighteen plus terms and 217 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:05.879 conditions applying to the website for details. 218 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:08.600 That there weren't other poor families, but it was poor, 219 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.879 and it was parentless, and the kids were just trying 220 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:15.600 to hold it together and struggle. Himself was a bit 221 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:19.840 of an odd ball. He of course, physically he had 222 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:25.759 he had a deformity of his right right leg that 223 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:29.559 that twisted it and then twisted his his foot in 224 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:34.840 some some form the the Obviously he wouldn't have been 225 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.600 going to a doctor, a specialist to get a diagnosis, 226 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:40.759 but he had been told it was an inflammation of 227 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:45.919 his his bone, and so that that left him quite 228 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.799 it left him disabled. And of course at that time 229 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:53.519 it's like, oh, that's a that's a that that kind 230 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:59.200 of defined him, right. And he was, you know, not 231 00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:04.919 not a big fellow to begin with, and so he 232 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:08.799 was short and with his leg even shorter, and he 233 00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:14.120 he was you know what nowadays might be called deveout 234 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:19.639 mentally challenged or certainly emotionally challenged. He was. He was 235 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:23.000 always referred to as the boy, even though by the 236 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.600 time and the murder, by the time of the murder, 237 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:28.720 he was twenty years old, and at that time in 238 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:33.519 that frontier society, you know, a man at twenty years 239 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.200 old is a man. You know, you're out of your family, 240 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:38.639 you're making your own family and so forth. But he 241 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.639 was seen as the boy, and in part because he 242 00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.759 just you know, he was clever enough in some things, 243 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:50.240 but he wasn't quite there in others. And also, you know, 244 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:57.440 emotionally he was kind of he was, you know, behind 245 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:02.440 is behind the times with his age and so forth, 246 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.720 and so they were both outsiders. They kind of, you know, 247 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:11.279 for for Struggle, he didn't have a real home, and 248 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:18.839 for for for Marshall, he didn't have a family around, 249 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:20.680 so they kind of, you know, it was kind of 250 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.720 like a you know, an uncle and a nephew type 251 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:29.640 relationship that they they they developed and and they seemed 252 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:32.240 to like each other quite you know, as much, not 253 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:33.920 that they guy to know each other well, but that 254 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:36.119 they liked each other's company. 255 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:40.480 So right, yeah, now, now tell us tell us about 256 00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:45.799 the relationship. You talked about this delayed emotional and development. 257 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:49.559 What they called him, just the boy, but he had 258 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:55.279 recently been in a relationship his uh, his landlord was 259 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:59.079 Margaret Bartlett, so he rented a room from her. But 260 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:01.400 she had three daughter and one of them was Elizabeth, 261 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:04.640 was twelve years old. Tell us about this recent love 262 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:10.440 affair and if it was approved or condoned by Margaret. 263 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:13.160 Tell us about this relationship and what it meant to 264 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:14.319 help her. 265 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.400 Yeah, Elizabeth was the I guess she was the third 266 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:27.119 oldest of the Bartlet daughters and there were eight Bartlet 267 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:35.599 children and Margaret was the mother. Elizabeth was known to 268 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:39.519 be People around believed her to be fourteen years old, 269 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:49.039 and government records show though that she's definitely twelve. And yes, 270 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:52.160 the two of them did develop a relationship. At first, 271 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:59.000 the mother Margaret wasn't crazy about it. The father in 272 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:02.240 the situation, Charles Bartlett, was kind of once again. He 273 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.440 was another father who was kind of out of the picture, 274 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:11.839 not physically, but he, you know, was another guy who 275 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.400 just tried numerous things and nothing seemed to stick. He 276 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.680 actually lived north of the line in chilat and You 277 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:24.000 for a good while and ran a hotel that burned down. 278 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:26.960 He forgot to get the insurance, so they were left 279 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:30.279 with nothing. And so Margaret Bartlett moved the whole family 280 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.480 south of the line and she bought the hotel. So 281 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.880 she was very much in charge. He didn't stay at 282 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:40.720 home very often. He passed out in the bar and 283 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:44.920 slept in the bar whereever he was. So and she 284 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.960 did eventually come around to the you know, in the 285 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:55.240 midst of the trials and the testimony, she did come around. 286 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.799 Both Elizabeth and Albert claimed that they were engaged. They 287 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:04.039 were officially engaged, and they said they had been talking 288 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.160 about the mother. The mother said, well, maybe I don't 289 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.359 think they were officially engaged, but they were, you know, related, 290 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:17.720 they were in a relationship, and you know, Elizabeth should 291 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:22.440 said well, if at one point if the murder hadn't 292 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:27.119 ha happened by they would have been married, right. And 293 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:29.759 I do address this and I said, oh, she's twelve 294 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:33.400 years old and they get married. And the answer is 295 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:38.480 in law, yes they can. The marriage of laws for 296 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:43.640 Washington State where the marriage age was eighteen for a 297 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:49.079 woman twenty one for a man. Now that only applied 298 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:56.079 if the parents of the daughter getting married protested, you know, 299 00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:58.920 if they said, well, no, we don't give her approval 300 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.680 for to get married. If they don't protest, then there 301 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.519 is There was no there was no other age limit 302 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:12.319 for getting married. And the fact that she was thought 303 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:17.480 to be fourteen was significant because Margaret Bartlett got married 304 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:23.160 at fourteen, the mother of Jay of the David Airly, 305 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:30.920 who is this little budding sociopath that was Albert Strobel's 306 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:34.880 co defendant in the First Child. She was fourteen when 307 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.440 she got married. Both of them, both the Barlett and 308 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:42.559 Margaret and Airly's mother were fifteen when they had their 309 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:52.119 first children. And Theodore Davy, who was the premier at 310 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.160 the time, and he was one of the most impressive 311 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.960 minds that BC had produced at the time, he married 312 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.720 the girl that was fourteen back in the eighteen seventies 313 00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:08.119 and she died. So it wasn't unusual on the frontier 314 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:15.559 for girls at fourteen to be married. So nobody really 315 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:20.960 raised as I say they thought. And the family kind 316 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:25.319 of didn't protest about Elizabeth being thought out as fourteen, right, 317 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:31.880 and Margaret didn't say anything. And from their perspective, you know, Margaret, 318 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:38.000 you know, daughters were useful. These families were big. Boys 319 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:40.880 were useful on the farm, and daughters were useful in 320 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:44.759 the house and raising the kids. And when they didn't 321 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:47.960 become useful, they wanted to marry the daughters off because 322 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:53.359 they became, you know, dependent. So marrying daughters off at 323 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:57.480 fourteen or fifteen isn't a bad a bad thing if 324 00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.400 you have other daughters to help around the house. Switch 325 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:05.599 to barlets did. So this was not as unusual as 326 00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:07.480 you would think it would be. 327 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:13.759 Sure, let's talk about as somebody talking about marriage, and 328 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:17.200 they talked about an engagement, and so the mother knew, 329 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:20.359 the father knew, but at the time he had no 330 00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:24.559 job prospects. He had talked about some money that he had, 331 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.400 but it was complicated. He said he had money in 332 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:31.359 a bank and New Westminster. I'll have you explain that briefly, 333 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:34.119 we don't get too far into that, but the idea 334 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.880 that he had no prospects for jobs, but he had 335 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:40.039 approached a couple guys, a couple of barbers, because his 336 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:41.960 idea was that he would like to be a barber 337 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.119 someday open a shop. So he did approach a couple 338 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.079 of people. But how serious was he an approach with 339 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.519 the first one with the apprenticeship and then the second one. 340 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.200 What did he say in terms of trying to secure 341 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.559 the barber shop business from this gentleman named Carpenter tell 342 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:03.599 us a litt little bit about his prospects about being 343 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:04.079 a barber. 344 00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:09.839 Yeah, I think he was completely serious about being a barber, 345 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:16.599 and it was one of his, you know, more realistic plans. 346 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:21.640 He knew, you know, being a barber was a bit 347 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:28.559 easier on his leg. Of course, you know, working behind 348 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:32.160 a pow in a field isn't the easiest thing to 349 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:35.279 do when you you you know, you have to you're 350 00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:38.079 regular walking, you have to use the king. Now, he 351 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:41.680 he did physical work, of course, because they had to 352 00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:47.519 didn't have any it didn't have much of any school training, 353 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.480 and so being a barber would have been a good 354 00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:56.759 thing for him. And the only problem is, of course, 355 00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:59.200 you know, barber's come and go. I mean the two 356 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:05.759 that he approached. One the first fellow, he gave his 357 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:11.519 horse too. It was the only asset that that Albert 358 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:13.960 owned was his horse. He gave him the horse to 359 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.839 take him on as an apprentice. That guy's shop burned 360 00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:20.519 down and he left. So then Carpenter opened a barbershop. 361 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:26.960 And Strobo said, okay, I'll buy the barbershop from you 362 00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:30.920 with everything in it, and I'll also buy some some 363 00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:35.559 household you know, things maybe a sofa, chairs, that sort 364 00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:39.559 of thing for you know, And and Carpenter said, well, 365 00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:43.400 the affing price is two hundred and fifty dollars, and 366 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:46.480 Strobo said, well that's fine. I have five hundred dollars 367 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:48.440 in the bank, and you know I'll be able to 368 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:53.279 pay you. Now, these talks apparently like according to Carpenter, 369 00:25:54.039 --> 00:25:58.720 he's the dodgy character. According to Carpenter, the talks have 370 00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:01.599 been going on for a right up until the day 371 00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:08.079 that Marshall that Strobo was arrested, and that Margaret Bartlett 372 00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:12.920 and Elizabeth Bartlett knew about these talks, knew about these plans. 373 00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:15.599 So from the sound of it, this kind of was 374 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:22.240 the plan that that Strobo was going to to get 375 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.400 the money to buy Carpenter's barbershop. That would set him 376 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.000 up and that would you know, be the basis for 377 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:32.640 you know, him being able to support it getting married 378 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:36.839 to Elizabeth. So Margaret kind of knew about this, uh 379 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.359 and and you know that that would have been the plan. 380 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.960 The only thing was Strobell had no money. He said 381 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:47.519 he had the five hundred in the bank, but and 382 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:52.559 he probably kind of believed it. But through some really 383 00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:00.799 dodgy real estate stuff that his older brother, Albert's older 384 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:07.279 brother having it involved been involved in, his older brother 385 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:12.319 then kind of passed on means heavily mortgaged property to 386 00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:16.640 him Albert, and so Albert thought he had these properties. 387 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:20.680 I don't think he was aware that there was there 388 00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:27.640 was a full mortgage on them, and he signed. He 389 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.279 ends up the bank comes and asks them for the money. 390 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.599 He ends up signing the property over, and then in 391 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.359 his mind, he signs the property over but gets no money, 392 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:42.559 and so he thinks the bank stole his money. So 393 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.799 that's what he was thinking about, Yes, I have the money. 394 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.720 So that's kind of the picture where he just kind 395 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.799 of doesn't get the big picture struggle, doesn't he doesn't 396 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.880 understand that well, actually those properties weren't anything because there 397 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:04.920 was a huge mortgage. Now, of course his older brother probably, 398 00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:10.079 you know, if he did tell him about the mortgages, 399 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:13.880 he had to have known that struggle. Albert wouldn't have 400 00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:17.119 understood very well what was going on. So his older 401 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:22.640