Speaker 1: Hi everyone, Welcome back to Between Us Girlies.
Speaker 2: I'm Bailey, I'm Casey, I'm Lindsay, I'm Ran And today
Speaker 2: we have one of my dream guests, Poverty Shallow, four
Speaker 2: time survivor players soon to be five with all showing
Speaker 2: survivor and your.
Speaker 3: Book was released today. Nice girls don't Win. How do
Speaker 3: you feel?
Speaker 4: I feel Wow, I don't really know. I'm like so
Speaker 4: many feelings. I'm really excited that this book is out
Speaker 4: in the world. I've been working on it for so
Speaker 4: many years. It's like the biggest commitment of my life,
Speaker 4: beyond my child.
Speaker 3: When did you decide like this is what I'm going
Speaker 3: to do, Like I'm going to put pen to paper
Speaker 3: and I'm going to write this out. Like was there
Speaker 3: a moment where You're like, I have to tell this story.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 4: It was an important piece of the puzzle for me
Speaker 4: to kind of look at my life.
Speaker 5: I was.
Speaker 4: I had just filed for divorce, I'd moved out of
Speaker 4: my spot and moved into an apartment on my own
Speaker 4: with my daughter, and she wasn't with me for some
Speaker 4: stretches of time with the custody split, so I was
Speaker 4: alone for the first time ever and I was like, how.
Speaker 5: Did I get here?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And I think of myself as a pretty smart person,
Speaker 4: and I couldn't compute how I'd landed in that place
Speaker 4: that was so far off from the vision that I
Speaker 4: had for my life. So I was like, you know
Speaker 4: what I'm going to do. I'm going to just I'm
Speaker 4: going to write a book. I'd always wanted to write
Speaker 4: a book always. I'm a writer. I was a journaler
Speaker 4: when I was a kid, a dear diary. And so
Speaker 4: I just sat down, and I actually, before I sat down,
Speaker 4: I called a friend of mine who is a writing
Speaker 4: teacher who lives in New York, and I was like,
Speaker 4: will you help me do this? And so she coached
Speaker 4: me and really taught me how to write scenes and
Speaker 4: dialogue and we did it together for two years.
Speaker 3: Wow. I'm so excited to read it. And you talk
Speaker 3: about like everything from survivor to grieving to relationships, Like
Speaker 3: was it hard to kind of relive some trauma like
Speaker 3: as you're writing this back or was it more healing
Speaker 3: for you?
Speaker 5: It was both.
Speaker 4: It was so hard to sit down and think about
Speaker 4: those things that were so painful and feel those feelings
Speaker 4: because I'm my coping style is if something's really painful,
Speaker 4: I just I'm like, oh that hurts.
Speaker 5: I don't want to feel that or look at that.
Speaker 4: I'm just going to do this other hard thing that's
Speaker 4: so intense so I can distract myself from this painful,
Speaker 4: really hard thing. So I'd been doing that so much
Speaker 4: in my life that I'd created this whole kind of
Speaker 4: wreckage of pain and loss and trauma.
Speaker 5: That was unresolved. So then I sat down.
Speaker 4: And looked at like my childhood for the first time,
Speaker 4: growing up in a commune with a very controlling guru.
Speaker 4: It was a wildly dysfunctional place. But I'd never looked
Speaker 4: at any of that or had conversations with my parents
Speaker 4: about it. So I interviewed them for the book, Okay,
Speaker 4: And it was just really informative that I had had
Speaker 4: this childhood growing up that had very similar emotional themes
Speaker 4: and even physical landscape to survivor.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was like the exact same.
Speaker 4: I paralleled it. It was like we basically had tribal
Speaker 4: council every night and the commune.
Speaker 6: And you didn't know any of this prior to this interview,
Speaker 6: Like you kind of did you have memories of it
Speaker 6: or was it totally new to you.
Speaker 5: You hear, we had some memories.
Speaker 4: I grew up there until I was nine, Okay, so
Speaker 4: I did have some memories, but very spotty.
Speaker 5: I hadn't thought about it in any kind of deep way.
Speaker 4: I'd just been told that it was an idyllic childhood,
Speaker 4: and I felt that it was idyllic.
Speaker 5: It was like very free.
Speaker 4: I ran around in the woods with friends and didn't
Speaker 4: have too much adult supervision. It felt like very natural
Speaker 4: and grounded and connected. But underneath the surface, what I
Speaker 4: didn't really have the ability to comprehend because I was
Speaker 4: a child, was there was so much abuse happening by
Speaker 4: the Guru and control, and there were so many adults.
Speaker 4: All the adults in the community were bowing to the Guru,
Speaker 4: giving their authority over to the Guru. Like the Guru
Speaker 4: control to everyone's decisions. She took everyone's money. Everyone donated
Speaker 4: all their money, their time, their energy to her. So
Speaker 4: I saw all of this as a child. I wrote
Speaker 4: it in my book too, because I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: that's how I learned what that's what love is as
Speaker 4: a kid.
Speaker 5: That was a template.
Speaker 4: So I had to really look at that and kind
Speaker 4: of break it down so that I don't repeat it
Speaker 4: in my personal life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you guys sleep, Like was it like were
Speaker 3: you with like your family just in a house, but
Speaker 3: like was it in like a community? Like I can't
Speaker 3: like visualize this.
Speaker 5: It was like communal housing.
Speaker 4: We had a room in a shared house with multiple families.
Speaker 7: I'm sure a lot of this shaped like why you
Speaker 7: were so good at Survivor. But do you consider this
Speaker 7: to be like a cult? Like is that like a
Speaker 7: culty upbringing or like.
Speaker 4: It has some of the hallmarks of a cult. I'm
Speaker 4: not calling it a cult for specific purposes.
Speaker 5: But it does have some of this.
Speaker 3: And then like, how did you guys like decide to
Speaker 3: like leave that commune? And was it weird kind of
Speaker 3: you know, adapting to a different society because that's all
Speaker 3: you knew was a child, and then you know you're
Speaker 3: nine years old and then suddenly you're not in that anymore.
Speaker 4: It was a culture shocky completely. So we moved from
Speaker 4: that's chapter one of the book. Yea too, And I
Speaker 4: broke down the book in the survival modes, flight, Fight, fawn, Freeze.
Speaker 3: Which is amazing, right, yeah, cool?
Speaker 5: Correct.
Speaker 4: I thought it was helpful because I'm doing a lot
Speaker 4: of work on my nervous and stuff.
Speaker 3: So you grew up like in Florida and then was
Speaker 3: that where you were located when you went to your
Speaker 3: first season of Survivor.
Speaker 5: No, we moved to Georgia, Okay when I was nine.
Speaker 4: My parents did a lot of work, and I commend
Speaker 4: them for this because it's not easy to leave a
Speaker 4: community that is your whole life, and especially something that's
Speaker 4: so controlling and you're insulated there. They were very isolated
Speaker 4: from the outside world, so they did a lot of
Speaker 4: work to deprogram that kind of thinking and to establish
Speaker 4: themselves in their own inner authority so that they could
Speaker 4: make decisions that were right for them. And then they realized, like,
Speaker 4: this is very unhealthy. We want to get out of here.
Speaker 4: So they bounced with me and my sister. When I
Speaker 4: was nine, we moved to Georgia and they really built
Speaker 4: a life from scratch, so it was very They were
Speaker 4: my first experience and first teachers of this is how
Speaker 4: to survive. This is any time you get stuck in
Speaker 4: something that's not healthy, you can get out of it.
Speaker 5: You can start over.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: What an amazing message, just like in life, but also
Speaker 6: for you to pass into your book like was that
Speaker 6: a huge driving force for you to kind of teach other.
Speaker 5: People these things when writing this book, or.
Speaker 6: Did you really just want to tell your story and
Speaker 6: kind of see where it landed.
Speaker 4: It's a service project. I'm a life coach. I'm like
Speaker 4: a virgo.
Speaker 5: I can't help it. I give a lot of advice
Speaker 5: to people, whether they want it or not.
Speaker 4: I'm like, read this book, it's medicine.
Speaker 3: What like when you're writing this, what is something that
Speaker 3: you're really excited for people to read, and what's something
Speaker 3: you're like a little bit nervous, Like is there a
Speaker 3: certain chapter that you're like, ooh, it's going to turn
Speaker 3: some heads.
Speaker 4: There are multiple chapters that are going to turn head.
Speaker 4: I wrote some provocative stories in there, and not to
Speaker 4: sensationalize anything, but my life is pretty and intense at times.
Speaker 4: So some of the stories, I mean, the survivor stories,
Speaker 4: everyone's aware of, I think for the most part. But
Speaker 4: what a reader is going to hear for the first
Speaker 4: time is my feelings and my personal experience of going
Speaker 4: through the things that you saw on screen.
Speaker 5: So there's that stuff.
Speaker 4: And then I went through a really difficult divorce and
Speaker 4: I lost my brother to an overdose around all around
Speaker 4: the kind of the same time, and that was super
Speaker 4: hard and painful. But I wrote about it because when
Speaker 4: I was going through that stuff, the things that helped
Speaker 4: me was hearing other people's stories of going through divorce
Speaker 4: and how they came to the decision to do it
Speaker 4: and then how they got through it to the other side,
Speaker 4: and then grief, Like I read a lot of grief
Speaker 4: memoirs when I was dealing with the grief of the
Speaker 4: loss of my brother, and it was just supportive. So
Speaker 4: I just wanted to include those stories so that other
Speaker 4: people could find their way through that experience, because it's
Speaker 4: something that we all, every single person has been touched.
Speaker 5: By grief, and a lot of people have been touched
Speaker 5: by addiction. So I included those.
Speaker 4: And then also, you know, I came out in a
Speaker 4: quick relationship and so there's a nice little sex scene
Speaker 4: in there.
Speaker 5: It's pretty spicy.
Speaker 3: What's the biggest difference you think between dating women and
Speaker 3: dating men?
Speaker 4: Well, May's not a woman, mased, not binary. But so
Speaker 4: I haven't actually officially dated a woman, okay, but I've
Speaker 4: dated and not man.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, would you date women in the future.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think dating may like really expanded my mind
Speaker 4: where I'm it just broke the box for me. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so there is no box anymore. Oh, wide open.
Speaker 3: We love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how everyone should just live with.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Open.
Speaker 6: You don't have to contrain yourself if you want to,
Speaker 6: if you feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: Finding your place.
Speaker 6: But I feel like I always find more comfort in
Speaker 6: just being like, I don't know, it's fluid, who knows what,
Speaker 6: what I am, what I'm doing anything like.
Speaker 5: That, right, And it's more fun like that.
Speaker 4: There's so many rules that I was adhering to without
Speaker 4: even knowing. Being in a heterosexual dynamic yah and dating men,
Speaker 4: it was I was just performing this role of woman
Speaker 4: in any date, any relationship. And then when I didn't
Speaker 4: have to do that, it.
Speaker 5: Was like what, Ah, I'm so free, happy too. I
Speaker 5: was so yeah, I'm so happy.
Speaker 3: I love that. Well, let's talk Survivor. So I'm a
Speaker 3: huge Survivor fan. My bar Mitza was Survivor themes. We
Speaker 3: have a segment which we'll get to that is completely
Speaker 3: based off Survivor and you have a big part in that.
Speaker 3: But your first Survivor season, Cook Island season thirteen quite
Speaker 3: a controversial season, certainly how old were you when that?
Speaker 3: Were you twenty four when that was filmed?
Speaker 5: Twenty two, twenty two?
Speaker 3: And did I read somewhere did you apply for a
Speaker 3: different show? And then they cast you for Survivor? Was
Speaker 3: an amazing race.
Speaker 5: I wrote the story in my book.
Speaker 3: Okay, oh see, I'm a super fan, so I know you're.
Speaker 5: Gonna love the story too.
Speaker 4: It's a full scene of going into the casting office. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and like getting the call beforehand from a friend who
Speaker 4: was a casting agent, because this was around it was
Speaker 4: a very different era in Survivor and in casting where
Speaker 4: they were recruiting.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So a friend of mine was a casting associate who
Speaker 4: was a recruiter, and he called me to do race.
Speaker 4: So I went in with two girlfriends and then the
Speaker 4: casting agent was like.
Speaker 5: Pick and I was like what you pick?
Speaker 4: I guess your job And she was like you want
Speaker 4: to win, don't you? And I said of course. Then
Speaker 4: she said which one would you win with? And I
Speaker 4: just picked right there in the room, and then she
Speaker 4: was like you're good for Survivor.
Speaker 3: Way, now, how'd you watch Survivor before?
Speaker 5: No, so did you see.
Speaker 3: Anything before you got signed? Like, had you had any
Speaker 3: idea of how the game worked or whatever.
Speaker 5: Yes, when they put us in the hotel for casting.
Speaker 3: They show you old seasons.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So we stay in a hotel for a week, maybe
Speaker 4: a few days or a week, and they would show
Speaker 4: us episodes of Survivor. So and the casting director told
Speaker 4: me to watch Stephanie La Grosse's season, her first season
Speaker 4: where she becomes the only woman left standing on her tribe.
Speaker 4: Tribe gets like completely descinated. Yeah, that was insane, a
Speaker 4: lone wolf out there. And I was like, okay, oh god,
Speaker 4: I got to learn how to make a fire without
Speaker 4: that actually was terrifying.
Speaker 6: From watching it in the hotel room. And then like
Speaker 6: a few days later you go in. Was it anything
Speaker 6: like you expected? Like did the show actually prepare you
Speaker 6: at all?
Speaker 5: No? How many be prepared mathchingly.
Speaker 4: No, it was such a experience. It was like a
Speaker 4: learning experience.
Speaker 5: On the job. That's how I like to learn.
Speaker 4: I'd prefer to learn on the job versus like sit
Speaker 4: in a classroom and.
Speaker 5: Read the books. Hands on experiential learning.
Speaker 4: This was a life lesson. So many life lessons on
Speaker 4: international television.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean, like, how amazing though that they
Speaker 3: picked you, because that started this legacy like, because how
Speaker 3: what if you had gone on amazing race, Like do
Speaker 3: you ever think about that?
Speaker 5: I would have been the first person out. I have
Speaker 5: no direction.
Speaker 4: I'm like, get out of the subway in New York
Speaker 4: and immediately start walking in the opposite direction of where
Speaker 4: I'm supposed to go.
Speaker 5: I would have I have lost Reyes so fast.
Speaker 4: Survivor was meant for me, And I do think that
Speaker 4: sometimes in our lives there are moments that are destined,
Speaker 4: that are just woven into the.
Speaker 5: Fabric of our life plan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and for me, and from writing the book and
Speaker 4: looking at my life from sort of a bird's eye view,
Speaker 4: Survivor is that for me? It was really a magnetic force.
Speaker 4: Like me and Survivor are magnets towards one another. Like
Speaker 4: I have the perfect skill set to do well in
Speaker 4: the game, and it is the perfect match for me.
Speaker 4: I'm so comfortable in that environment, which is so crazy,
Speaker 4: like it's not fun to get rained on or like
Speaker 4: have rats run across her chest at night?
Speaker 7: Oh no, I'll do it.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, Like if.
Speaker 6: You're is there any part of it that is uncomfortable?
Speaker 6: Like of all the things you experience, the rain, the
Speaker 6: rats running across your chest, which I would literally fly home,
Speaker 6: swim home if that happened to me.
Speaker 3: What is like the worst part of it?
Speaker 5: It's the rain, really, the rain is the worst part.
Speaker 5: It's so demoralizing. No, wowocks aren't that bad. I guess
Speaker 5: you get used to like just like I think, I
Speaker 5: feel like there's coping mechanisms for the bugs.
Speaker 4: You can put your long sleeves on, you wear your
Speaker 4: buff over your face at night, but there you can't
Speaker 4: avoid the rain, and once you get wet, it's so miserable.
Speaker 7: I don't know if you're allowed to answer this question,
Speaker 7: but like, let's say, like you get diarrhea or like
Speaker 7: you have a really bad heading, Like are the producers
Speaker 7: giving you an advil? Do you have access to maybe
Speaker 7: a bathroom or no.
Speaker 4: There's no bathroom? No okay, wow, there's no bathroom.
Speaker 5: So you're on your own there to have find what
Speaker 5: works for you.
Speaker 4: And I will say that coconuts are a natural laxative
Speaker 4: and that's the only food out there.
Speaker 5: Sometimes there's rice on Australians. Whoever we had rice, and
Speaker 5: I think winters at war we had a little rice.
Speaker 3: But medicine, right, if you.
Speaker 4: Have well, they do have medics on hand, so if
Speaker 4: someone has some kind of issue, they can talk to
Speaker 4: the medic.
Speaker 3: I remember on Cook Islands. This is such a weird memory,
Speaker 3: but I get really bad headaches and Jenny had a
Speaker 3: really bad headache and the one cowboy I think was
Speaker 3: his name, he like did something to her head like
Speaker 3: it was very like chiropractory and she's like, my headaches gone.
Speaker 3: And I literally will always remember that scene from that
Speaker 3: season because I as a kid, was like, do I
Speaker 3: have to like touch my face and like, like, you know,
Speaker 3: pressure my sinuses to get rid of them.
Speaker 4: I remember that. You remember that he pulled some kind
Speaker 4: of demon out.
Speaker 5: Of her forehead.
Speaker 3: It was very interesting.
Speaker 5: Read mark on her face.
Speaker 4: First days after she was liked eggs gone, but she's
Speaker 4: got this like red.
Speaker 3: So a few years later, you come back for Micronesia,
Speaker 3: the season you end up winning, which was epic, and
Speaker 3: I remember as a little kid because I was like
Speaker 3: your biggest fan. I had so much anxiety the first
Speaker 3: episode because they immediately went after you out the gate.
Speaker 3: You had freaking Jonathan Penner being like, we got to
Speaker 3: get rid of parvity immediately. But you went all the
Speaker 3: way to the end and you won. Do you I
Speaker 3: don't know if you're allowed to like pick your favorite season,
Speaker 3: but was that like your favorite one that you were on,
Speaker 3: if you could pick, or is it like picking a child,
Speaker 3: Like you can't choose a favorite.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's really hard. I loved Micronesia because of
Speaker 4: the women.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they though they were so cool. Yeah.
Speaker 4: It is so hard and rare to find one ally
Speaker 4: who you can trust and work with in these games.
Speaker 4: M hm, and I had four yeah, like Alexis, Natalie,
Speaker 4: Amanda SII, I mean the incredible and I felt like
Speaker 4: the stars aligned and it was just like so magical
Speaker 4: playing with them. That was my favorite part of that season,
Speaker 4: and it made it a blast. It was really stressful
Speaker 4: and hard because I was playing such a psychologically cutthroat
Speaker 4: game and I was on strategic.
Speaker 5: Alert, Like, h I alert the entire time.
Speaker 3: Do you think you play better when your back is
Speaker 3: sort of against the wall and like you kind of
Speaker 3: know that people are after you, and it like kind
Speaker 3: of you have to be a little more scrappy versus
Speaker 3: if you're like in a sense of wait, I feel
Speaker 3: like I'm okay, And I feel like that's when people
Speaker 3: get blindsided because they have this like false sense of safety.
Speaker 4: I have never had an experience of not having a
Speaker 4: back the fall.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely think you do better like but I
Speaker 3: think that's like the good situations because it forces you
Speaker 3: to really get like down and dirty and like figure
Speaker 3: it out.
Speaker 4: It makes me play a very risk forward game when
Speaker 4: I the pressure is on and I'm like, all right,
Speaker 4: I gotta throw some hail Marys and pray that this works.
Speaker 5: It works.
Speaker 4: Yeah, crazy, my head explodes, like it's amazing that the
Speaker 4: things that I do in these games pay off.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like that, like playing.
Speaker 4: Both my immunity idols in one go Josh.
Speaker 7: Like Brandon's super like you don't understand. So Brandon and
Speaker 7: I have been friend since we were five, Like he's
Speaker 7: the first grid I've ever had. Knowing that his born
Speaker 7: Mitzell was Survivor themed, like I knew that he was
Speaker 7: a Survivor fan, but living with him hit different because
Speaker 7: he sat me down. I think we watched like Big
Speaker 7: Brother once and I don't typically watch like game shows,
Speaker 7: and I love Big Brother.
Speaker 5: Maybe it was Big Brother, yeah, and you.
Speaker 7: Were He was like, well, if you love Big Brother,
Speaker 7: like you have to see Parverty and us like who's poverty.
Speaker 7: And he's like, she does a double she plays a
Speaker 7: double idol and I'm like, I don't know what that means.
Speaker 7: And the three of us like we've all sat down
Speaker 7: and watched that with Brandon like sixty times.
Speaker 3: Like it's my super ball and like your speech where
Speaker 3: like you talk about the bananas right before, like it's
Speaker 3: just epic and it literally like you set up the
Speaker 3: villains to decimate the heroes at that moment because it's
Speaker 3: five and five and you're dead at a stalemate and
Speaker 3: you had the advantage after that.
Speaker 5: So I was fueled by fury and vengeance.
Speaker 3: Yes, which is so funny because we had a guest
Speaker 3: on last week and she said everything she does is
Speaker 3: out of spite and rage and that is what you need.
Speaker 3: But something I want to talk about that. I think
Speaker 3: it has been really interesting, especially in watching some of
Speaker 3: your interviews. Is you kind of talk about this idea
Speaker 3: that a million dollars you win that at a young
Speaker 3: age twenty four at that time, right, but like is
Speaker 3: it a lot of money? Like what does that really
Speaker 3: mean to someone who's twenty four? Because I think when
Speaker 3: I was growing up survived, I was four years old
Speaker 3: when the first season of Survivor came out, I'm like,
Speaker 3: a million dollars and now I'm twenty eight, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: it's a lot of money, but like that does go fast,
Speaker 3: So like what was it like? Did you feel like
Speaker 3: I remember? I think I just saw that you took
Speaker 3: the check and you put it under your bathroom saying
Speaker 3: like can you tell us about that moment?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 4: I yes, I just to tell this story and I
Speaker 4: write it in my book too. When I got the
Speaker 4: check for a million dollars, I had like negative six
Speaker 4: hundred in my checking account, Like how do they even let.
Speaker 5: You do that? I don't know.
Speaker 4: But I tried to buy a sandwich at the airport
Speaker 4: at JFK and I was flying home after I won.
Speaker 4: I have the check in my bag and my card
Speaker 4: gets declined, and I'm like, I'm stark, like.
Speaker 5: I just want to days.
Speaker 4: I was like, I guess I'll get a cookie on
Speaker 4: the plane, but I couldn't because it was so embarrassing.
Speaker 5: I was like, it was crazy.
Speaker 4: How ironic is that that I'm a millionaire and I
Speaker 4: couldn't buy a sandwich? And I realized when I got
Speaker 4: home I had the check, but I had also booked
Speaker 4: this gig, which was so fun.
Speaker 5: I was on Into the Blue Too Shark movie, right, yeah, very.
Speaker 4: Special movie, and they flew us to Hawaii, Amanda and
Speaker 4: I separately.
Speaker 3: I did not know this, by the way, Oh my god.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm sure you can find the clip on YouTube.
Speaker 4: There's a volleyball scene on Into the Blue Tuo. So
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, well, I just got to go
Speaker 4: do my movie debut, so I don't have time to
Speaker 4: go deposit this check. And I was like, ah, I
Speaker 4: don't know what to do with it. It's like a
Speaker 4: million dollar check that's real, and like, I didn't print
Speaker 4: this out myself, so I just shoved it under my
Speaker 4: bathroom sync and I was like, that'll keep it sick.
Speaker 4: And then I flew to Hawaii and did the movie.
Speaker 4: And so I still had no money because I hadn't
Speaker 4: had time to go to the bank, but they gave
Speaker 4: me per diem for the movie, so I had like
Speaker 4: sixty bucks half.
Speaker 5: It's like, I guess I can buy something with that.
Speaker 4: Y Yeah, it was wild, but I realized I didn't
Speaker 4: manage the money very well.
Speaker 5: I was still in.
Speaker 4: This you know, fight flight freeze fonn State of operating,
Speaker 4: which kept me in this place of.
Speaker 5: Survival.
Speaker 4: I was in this survival mode, so I didn't have
Speaker 4: any kind of context to not be in survival modes.
Speaker 4: So a million dollars would have taken me out of
Speaker 4: survival mode, and I didn't know how.
Speaker 5: To deal with that. I didn't know how to be.
Speaker 4: In a place of stability or abundance. So I was like, ah,
Speaker 4: and everyone was hating, Like I was just getting so
Speaker 4: much backlash from the press and from people who had
Speaker 4: watched Survivor.
Speaker 5: I was being slut shamed. I write about this in
Speaker 5: the book.
Speaker 4: It was like the Perez Hilton era of like it
Speaker 4: was just slut shaming all the celebs, and everyone was
Speaker 4: just like, Oh, that's normalizing all of that. And so
Speaker 4: I was just like, you know, I didn't know how
Speaker 4: to ground myself in that time, and so I invested
Speaker 4: all my money and I started a wellness center with
Speaker 4: a girlfriend of mine, and I put all of my
Speaker 4: money in there.
Speaker 5: We remodeled the space.
Speaker 4: It was pilates, yoga, massage, it was so many things
Speaker 4: I did my yoga teacher training. I was like, I'm
Speaker 4: going to prove to the world that I am something
Speaker 4: more than like a vapid horror reality fame chaser, and
Speaker 4: it was out of this place. I built the center,
Speaker 4: out of this place of lack, out of feeling not
Speaker 4: good enough about, out of trying to prove myself to
Speaker 4: change other people's opinions of me. And the money just
Speaker 4: went into a black hole. And so I finally got
Speaker 4: out of that. I sold it, but I'd lost quite
Speaker 4: a bit of money and that experience, and I got
Speaker 4: out of it, and then I just had to rebuild again.
Speaker 4: So I do tell these stories in the book because
Speaker 4: I think it's helpful for people to hear.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like what money.
Speaker 4: Mindsets, because it's something that people don't really talk about
Speaker 4: very often. And I've had this sense that a lot
Speaker 4: of people think, oh, I won a million dollars at
Speaker 4: twenty five MS set for life, and that.
Speaker 5: Wasn't the case.
Speaker 4: I've had to start over and rebuild many times in
Speaker 4: my life and it's possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So interesting now because now you've done TV where
Speaker 3: there's social media too, but we're also more progressive as
Speaker 3: a society. Do you think, like, was it hard back
Speaker 3: then when you know we weren't as progressive, but there
Speaker 3: also wasn't TikTok, Instagram and everything where you could read
Speaker 3: all of these things about you, you were still reading
Speaker 3: them just I think social media now you're reading them
Speaker 3: so much more on your face. Yeah, Or was it
Speaker 3: easier now when you kind of can be more yourself
Speaker 3: and that's more accepted, but you're seeing things on Twitter, Instagram, everything, Like,
Speaker 3: was there a difference on like the toll of being
Speaker 3: on TV on your mental health?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 4: I think at a young age, because I didn't have
Speaker 4: a very strong sense of self established, it was really
Speaker 4: hard to hear those kinds of critiques and not take
Speaker 4: them personally. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I feel.
Speaker 4: For the young people that are going on, like in
Speaker 4: their twenties, going on log Love Island and doing all
Speaker 4: these shows and getting the immediate backlash from social media,
Speaker 4: because at least I have had time and I've processed
Speaker 4: a lot of stuff. I've done a lot of therapy.
Speaker 4: I like worked on myself. I'm in a good place.
Speaker 4: I'm grounded. I have a good sense of self now
Speaker 4: and I have more acceptance of who I am and
Speaker 4: I trust myself. So I'm like, I can be me
Speaker 4: and you can have whatever opinion you have of me,
Speaker 4: and that's fine. But I will say, like, so it
Speaker 4: really affected me, I think because of my age and
Speaker 4: because I didn't have that stability internally. But now that
Speaker 4: like the tides have changed and social media is unavoidable.
Speaker 4: It's how I work, it's how I promote my work.
Speaker 4: I'm constantly on Instagram promoting my work, so I can't
Speaker 4: not engage with it, and that I think is tricky
Speaker 4: because I love that, like the tide has changed, people
Speaker 4: are really loving and supportive. That's the majority of the
Speaker 4: comments that I get now are very supportive, which is
Speaker 4: so nice.
Speaker 5: And I know that people.
Speaker 4: Change quickly, so I'm like, I'm not getting attached, but
Speaker 4: it is like it's yeah, it's like hard to set
Speaker 4: a boundary around it. When in the past, before social
Speaker 4: media was such a big deal, I could just like
Speaker 4: not pick up the s Weekly, yeah, or not look
Speaker 4: on the website.
Speaker 3: It was kind of like out of site, out of mind. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you notice a difference being on the traders versus
Speaker 1: or whatever with like social media, because I feel like
Speaker 1: traders are with like so many other reality TV stars
Speaker 1: and you're like clumped in and you're also a trader. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I was sure if you saw a difference in that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Traders did a good job. He got as
Speaker 4: a really good PR team. They did a good job
Speaker 4: with promoting and marketing and getting us out there.
Speaker 5: And I just got a lot of love.
Speaker 4: From doing Traders and the memes and the like squinty
Speaker 4: face shifts were really funny.
Speaker 3: We loved you so fun so epic closing out your
Speaker 3: like Survivor chapter. I remember when I saw you were
Speaker 3: doing Winners at War. Its like there's no way. I
Speaker 3: was like, she would never do TV again. I was like,
Speaker 3: she's never going to do it, And you did it.
Speaker 3: And do you think that like kind of opened up
Speaker 3: the gates for now You've done the Traders, You're doing
Speaker 3: Australians or whatever you're you know, like, are you happy that
Speaker 3: you did that? And was an epic experience because it
Speaker 3: was also the Edge of Extinction, which like I will
Speaker 3: get into that, but like will we.
Speaker 5: The PTSD from Edge of Extinction is so real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how you guys did that. I
Speaker 3: was like having so much anxiety.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I am grateful. Yeah that I had
Speaker 4: the opportunity to go back and play. It was crazy
Speaker 4: and I did write about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, in the book because.
Speaker 4: There were a couple of factors that brought me back
Speaker 4: into Survivor.
Speaker 5: At the time, I never really wanted to play again.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I just had a baby, which is absolutely insane.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I was like, who am I? What's my body?
Speaker 5: And then they're like, go play Survivor And I was.
Speaker 4: Like, ohky, Yeah, it was wild because I was ten
Speaker 4: months postpartum.
Speaker 6: Oh wow, are you like the only person in Survivor
Speaker 6: history to do something like that?
Speaker 3: That's incredible?
Speaker 5: Ten months probably?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But Shawnee, who just played Australian Survivor, had a baby
Speaker 4: when we went out and played, and I think he
Speaker 4: was a year.
Speaker 3: Women are incredible. Women can do anything.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And she was like, she stopped breastfeeding to go play
Speaker 4: and that was really hard for her, A hard decision
Speaker 4: to make.
Speaker 5: I stopped breastfeeding to go play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and pot a wear and tear on your body
Speaker 1: out there too. I can't even imagine.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I lost so much.
Speaker 4: People are like, how did you get your butty back?
Speaker 4: After go starve on an Island thirty nine days? Edge
Speaker 4: of Extinction?
Speaker 3: Insane? Is there anyone you've never played with that you
Speaker 3: wish you would have or is there anyone that maybe
Speaker 3: was on the same season as you, but you were
Speaker 3: like on different tribes and never got to like actually
Speaker 3: play together.
Speaker 4: I would have said Tony. I would have said Tony yeah,
Speaker 4: because he won winters at War, Yeah, and I was.
Speaker 4: I was on that season, but I never got to
Speaker 4: play with him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I was like.
Speaker 4: Dang, he's he was good on this good Yeah, So
Speaker 4: I would have, but I played with him the Australian Survivor.
Speaker 3: Oh, oh my god.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so me, Tony and three play together?
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Okay, so we'll get to see I.
Speaker 5: Gotta taste can see. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I can't think of anyone else off the top of
Speaker 4: my head. But I was like, dang, I wanted to
Speaker 4: play with him on When is it wor.
Speaker 3: Is there anyone you're dying to see play again?
Speaker 4: Amanda Kimmel, Yeah, I would love of course, I would
Speaker 4: love to see Amanda play.
Speaker 5: I would really love that. I just don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, she's been out of the universe for so long.
Speaker 4: I just wonder how.
Speaker 3: She would yeah, how she would do?
Speaker 5: How she would do?
Speaker 6: Is it like similar to like riding a bike, like
Speaker 6: you never forget or when you put yourself back in
Speaker 6: this situation, you kind of have to like readjust oh.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a warm up. I was like, oh god,
Speaker 5: I forgot.
Speaker 6: How is there like a decompression from it too? Like
Speaker 6: do you come back into the real world and you're
Speaker 6: like strategizing the grocery store, or like, are you able
Speaker 6: to like come back and be like, thank God, I'm
Speaker 6: in normal life.
Speaker 4: I was like that for the first three seasons that
Speaker 4: I played. Wow, jeez, because I didn't have any separation
Speaker 4: between real life and the game.
Speaker 5: I didn't there wasn't a line.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I didn't have the ability to kind of
Speaker 4: contextualize this is a game, this is real life. But
Speaker 4: as I moved out of survival mode and into a
Speaker 4: more grounded, stabilized place inside myself, I can rightfully place
Speaker 4: the games where they belong, like this is a game.
Speaker 5: I play this role when I play these games.
Speaker 4: I do these dastardly things when I play these games,
Speaker 4: and that's okay because it's a game and everyone else
Speaker 4: is agreeing to this certain set of rules and this competition,
Speaker 4: so I'm not I'm not breaking anyone's hard I'm not
Speaker 4: running over their kids, I'm not stealing their money out
Speaker 4: of their kids college funds.
Speaker 5: Like I'm I am trying to win this game just
Speaker 5: as you are, and you are and.
Speaker 4: You are, So I now have that ability to kind
Speaker 4: of put it in its right spot. But no, I
Speaker 4: didn't have that when I first played my first.
Speaker 5: Three seasons of whatever.
Speaker 7: Wow, does anything freak you out or like scare you?
Speaker 7: Like I'm listening to you talk and I'm like, if
Speaker 7: I was a kidnapper and I took you, like I
Speaker 7: feel like you'd get away in like five minutes, I would.
Speaker 5: Use my response. I would be like I've always wanted
Speaker 5: to be to pick up.
Speaker 3: That you were saying. Bearing alive is like a now.
Speaker 4: Go oh no away. Thank god I didn't have to
Speaker 4: get in a coffin Traders.
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you some Traders questions. Okay,
Speaker 1: I loved you on Traders. First off, I have to
Speaker 1: ask about your iconic headvans. You ate up all of
Speaker 1: your outfits on the Traders. I loved it, Like, was
Speaker 1: the head fans something. I don't know if this is
Speaker 1: a real question, but like, just wasn't more iconic for
Speaker 1: you on Traders? Just like have something like I feel
Speaker 1: like it's just so different from Survivor. You kind of
Speaker 1: like stand out a little bit, but not to stand out.
Speaker 4: It was so fun to prep the our jobe for Traders.
Speaker 4: I hired a stylist.
Speaker 3: I would do the same thing. Oh, like you have
Speaker 3: fabulous guys.
Speaker 5: We're eating.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a fash.
Speaker 5: I understood the assignment. Alan Cumming is going to bring it.
Speaker 4: I'm living in a castle, Okay, I'm gonna have to
Speaker 4: show up. So I hired a stylist and it was
Speaker 4: an insane amount of clothes that we had to prepare
Speaker 4: to and I was like, who would I want to
Speaker 4: be if I was playing this game as a character.
Speaker 4: And I love Blair Walder from Gossip Girl, so she
Speaker 4: was my inspiration in every way holistically conspiration.
Speaker 5: Like I was like personality style the whole thing with
Speaker 5: my squinty, pouty face.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that so much.
Speaker 5: Amazing, brushed it, thank you, And I have a question.
Speaker 1: So that's a way to prep and going back to
Speaker 1: what you're saying by like taking the game versus real life.
Speaker 1: I feel like Traders, that's such a different game. You're
Speaker 1: also proving the people just like you're.
Speaker 3: Not a liar?
Speaker 1: Is that a different way of playing a game too,
Speaker 1: I mean completely different than Survivor.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was. It's a completely different game.
Speaker 4: It's so hard because I was constantly under attack and
Speaker 4: couldn't escape. Survivor, if I'm feeling stressed or under attack,
Speaker 4: there's so much space, so I can leave and go
Speaker 4: jump in the ocean and kind of regulate myself and reset.
Speaker 4: But with Traders, it was one room after another of
Speaker 4: people accusing me, and I was like, I'm lying.
Speaker 5: They all know I'm lying. Oh my god, they can
Speaker 5: see it on my face. I was like, God, I
Speaker 5: was so bare annoying.
Speaker 3: I'd be like blinked, weird.
Speaker 1: I'm like, do they know I'm lying right now? Like,
Speaker 1: even if you weren't lying, if you weren't like a trader,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh no, I'm not doing anything wrong.
Speaker 4: I know, and then that makes you look guilty. So
Speaker 4: there's no way to not feel insane, right.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: That's why I feel like the game players always just
Speaker 6: do a little bit better when it comes to traders
Speaker 6: and in strategic moves, because I think there is a
Speaker 6: level where you, like I just you can't put real
Speaker 6: people in a room and be called a liar and
Speaker 6: have them react accordingly, but you put a game player
Speaker 6: in there and they're like, oh, I don't what to do?
Speaker 3: I know how to interact? Because people your season did
Speaker 3: take it personal, Like it seemed like MJ was like
Speaker 3: devastated with like Trishall and CT just being like, no,
Speaker 3: we're playing the game. Were you at that point like
Speaker 3: do you feel like you're past with reality TV had
Speaker 3: kind of helped you be like no, this isn't personal.
Speaker 3: Guys like yeah, because it seemed like people were up yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: but that union was tense.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, MJ was really pissed. Phedra too, Yeah, was
Speaker 5: missed Dan.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: They've never had the experience of, you know, stepping into
Speaker 4: that kind of game play arena and have it be
Speaker 4: not personal. I think Housewives it is always personal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I'm trying.
Speaker 4: Your job is to take things personally. So they were
Speaker 4: doing their job, you know. I I don't I like
Speaker 4: forget the threat of what I was going to say.
Speaker 3: Now, was there like a moment where you were like
Speaker 3: regretful of being a trader or did you go in
Speaker 3: and you wanted to be a trader? Like how do
Speaker 3: you think you would have done as a faithful I.
Speaker 5: Think I would have been a good, faithful because I
Speaker 5: would have felt more free.
Speaker 4: I would have felt more able to express myself in
Speaker 4: a regular way.
Speaker 5: And connect with people.
Speaker 4: I'm really good at connecting with people when I'm authentic,
Speaker 4: when I'm like truthful to what's happening inside.
Speaker 5: But if I am holding a secret, I'm like, I'm lying.
Speaker 4: I just always assume people know I'm lying, so I'm like,
Speaker 4: I just act weird.
Speaker 5: I can't help it. I don't know.
Speaker 4: There's something on Survivor that gives me like a little
Speaker 4: bit of like, uh, like little I don't know, there's
Speaker 4: something about lying on Survivor that's easier for me because
Speaker 4: it feels more. It feels different, it feels more like
Speaker 4: it's not an overt lie.
Speaker 5: It's more like a subtle like I'm with.
Speaker 4: You, like a mission, but like I could actually be
Speaker 4: with you, so things could change, it could be together.
Speaker 7: Do you think that working with like going back to
Speaker 7: the different personalities of a game player versus a housewife
Speaker 7: like you and Phedra were traders, was that weird working
Speaker 7: together coming from such different I guess reality backgrounds, Like
Speaker 7: did you have any moments where you two clashed where
Speaker 7: she was more like drama and You're like, no, no,
Speaker 7: we have to play the game like this.
Speaker 5: We had those moments in the turret.
Speaker 4: Well, it was one moment, really, the moment when I
Speaker 4: came after the housewives at a round table.
Speaker 5: She was pissed, yeah, And I was shocked because I
Speaker 5: was like, what do you me and you're upset? I
Speaker 5: have to, of course obviously.
Speaker 4: Play and say something so people don't think I'm a trader,
Speaker 4: and she's like, don't come.
Speaker 5: After that, surely go. I was I and I read.
Speaker 4: To her credit, she was able to drop it like
Speaker 4: when we were in the turret and I was like, look,
Speaker 4: I like you are we going to be on the
Speaker 4: same page?
Speaker 5: Are we on the same team? Like she got out
Speaker 5: of her system. She yelled at me.
Speaker 4: She felt cleared the air, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 4: good do you did what you had to do like
Speaker 4: I did what how to do, and I think we
Speaker 4: both are like able to do this together if you
Speaker 4: want to be on the same team.
Speaker 5: I like, I got your back.
Speaker 4: And then she was the thing that I think was
Speaker 4: really surprising to me about Pedro was she was really
Speaker 4: loyal and I did not expect that from her. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and I didn't expect it from a housewife. I just
Speaker 4: thought like they would play for themselves. But she was
Speaker 4: loyal and as soon as I realized that about her,
Speaker 4: I was like, I trust her, Like I don't think
Speaker 4: she's gonna throw me under the bus. And even at
Speaker 4: the very end where it was us going against each
Speaker 4: other at the round table, you can see we don't
Speaker 4: really go.
Speaker 5: Against each other. We're both like I don't want to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really how was that feeling when like you're
Speaker 1: just seeing your name being flipped and like you're tallying
Speaker 1: it up and you're like, oh, because like you also
Speaker 1: have to go up there at the end of be
Speaker 1: like so like I lied for the past however many
Speaker 1: weeks like is it a good feeling or like kind
Speaker 1: of a bad feel Like who I'm relieved back and
Speaker 1: I'll have to lie to you guys.
Speaker 4: Any I wrote this, see so you're going to get
Speaker 4: to write it. It was like kind of bittersweet because
Speaker 4: I didn't want to be out of the game, and
Speaker 4: it was a relief to be able to tell the truth.
Speaker 5: It's so freeing to.
Speaker 4: Tell the truth of it's shockingly liberating, and I really
Speaker 4: enjoy feeling free. So it was great to just be
Speaker 4: able to drop that and be like, you guys, get me.
Speaker 5: Way to go.
Speaker 4: But it was a good moment for me too to
Speaker 4: have that experience because I'd been doing all of this
Speaker 4: work on myself as I played Traders. I was in
Speaker 4: the middle of writing my book, my book Proposal. When
Speaker 4: it got sold, it did not have Traders in it
Speaker 4: because I hadn't played. So the book was being written
Speaker 4: as I was living life, like multiple chapters at the
Speaker 4: end didn't exist. I hadn't had my queer relationship, I
Speaker 4: hadn't played Traders. When I sold the book book, so
Speaker 4: I was like, I need to obviously this is important.
Speaker 4: I'm going to write all this in So I had
Speaker 4: been doing so much work on myself when I got
Speaker 4: the call to go play Traders, and I was in
Speaker 4: this place of real emotional honesty, like that was my
Speaker 4: practice because I had played Survivor so many times, I
Speaker 4: was so practiced in avoiding my feelings and like not
Speaker 4: really even understanding what my feelings meant or what they
Speaker 4: were trying to tell me. So I was doing a
Speaker 4: lot of somatic work, like embodied therapy to understand what
Speaker 4: I was feeling and where they were, what direction my
Speaker 4: feelings were pointing me in, so I could live a
Speaker 4: life that was more honest to myself. I was like, okay,
Speaker 4: and it was so much work to get there. And
Speaker 4: then I was like, oh, no, I have to play
Speaker 4: a lying game.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's like exposure therapy to the absolute back exactly.
Speaker 4: I was really worried about it when I play before
Speaker 4: I played, because I was like, I don't know if
Speaker 4: I can do it. I'm too vulnerable. I was like
Speaker 4: a baby deer.
Speaker 3: Well, you crushed it. So we're going to play a
Speaker 3: game we play every week, a game called would you Rather?
Speaker 3: It's very simple, So would you rather play in a
Speaker 3: future season of The Traders All Stars with people from
Speaker 3: different Traders US seasons or play in the very final
Speaker 3: season of Survivor USA. It's called like Survivor Legends and
Speaker 3: it's all legendary players.
Speaker 5: I will never play Survivor again.
Speaker 3: Are you going on the record and you're saying that
Speaker 3: yes and you mean it?
Speaker 5: Heard it here?
Speaker 3: I just got goosebumps. Even if Jeff is saying part
Speaker 3: of this is the very last season, there will never
Speaker 3: be a season of the show again.
Speaker 4: You're saying no, there is nothing Jeff can say or do.
Speaker 4: No amount of money he can pay me to play
Speaker 4: that game again.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Okay, but Trader at All Stars, Traders.
Speaker 5: All Stars is on the table. Yeah, I would do it.
Speaker 1: Would you want it in a freeze?
Speaker 5: Never? Okay?
Speaker 3: The survival skill the guys would no? Brother?
Speaker 5: No? No?
Speaker 3: Have you watched Big Brother?
Speaker 5: I can not handle Big Brother. It's like trapped in
Speaker 5: a coffin for me. I can't do it.
Speaker 3: Would you ever do a dating show?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, good to know. Okay, this is a dicey one.
Speaker 3: If you were to play Survivor again, we know you're not,
Speaker 3: But if you were on the show, would you rather
Speaker 3: be voted off, pre merge with an idol in your pocket?
Speaker 3: Or make it all the way to the final four?
Speaker 3: You're the lead contender to win, but then you lose
Speaker 3: the fire making challenge.
Speaker 4: I would rather lose fire making challenge. It's a skill
Speaker 4: I just simply do not.
Speaker 5: Have you ever want to go out with an idol
Speaker 5: in your pocket?
Speaker 3: Yeah? That's like always my biggest Fearit not that I
Speaker 3: would ever play, but if I did play, I would
Speaker 3: be so scared that I would go out with an
Speaker 3: idol in my pocket. Just play it, just play it.
Speaker 5: Just play it. It's fine even if you don't need
Speaker 5: to play it. Just play it wrong. Don't go out
Speaker 5: with an idol on your pojet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you have a little sneaking suspicion it could
Speaker 4: be you just get it out of there.
Speaker 6: There's a life metaphor in there somewhere. Yeah, Like just
Speaker 6: do it, just even if it's wrong.
Speaker 3: Just fill in your gut it anyway.
Speaker 5: Don't be a hoarder, don't be an idle order.
Speaker 3: So we have a segment every week that is based
Speaker 3: off Survivor called a Muni Necklace. And you're very familiar
Speaker 3: with the Union necklace you have, like the record I
Speaker 3: think for like most female Immunu wins like ever in
Speaker 3: a season, right or something like that. Probably I would know,
Speaker 3: I would know, But we say it a little differently.
Speaker 3: We say a Muni necklace as like a way to
Speaker 3: say like a hot take. So like if you were
Speaker 3: talking in Survivor lingo, someone would say Ammunion necklace. But
Speaker 3: I don't think Boston Robb's that good of a player.
Speaker 3: Like you say something very controversial after and the whole
Speaker 3: point of having an immunia necklace on is like, we
Speaker 3: can't judge you for saying it. You're like, you're safe
Speaker 3: from our judge.
Speaker 5: Oh okay, I love that.
Speaker 3: So it doesn't have to be a survivor related. It
Speaker 3: could be dating anything, like one of our guests has
Speaker 3: said her ammuniy necklace was your boyfriend isn't your best friend?
Speaker 3: Like totally should be categories my best friends are back surround,
Speaker 3: my boyfriend's my boyfriend? Do you have an union necklace?
Speaker 3: A hot take that's maybe relevant to your life right now?
Speaker 3: It could be about literally anything. It could be as
Speaker 3: something small as a union necklace. I hate red high heels,
Speaker 3: like something like that. You can think on it for
Speaker 3: a second if you need to.
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, because I don't know, we.
Speaker 3: Should have propped to you. I feel like you, Yeah,
Speaker 3: anything in your book maybe or maybe a process of
Speaker 3: like writing the book that maybe inspired something.
Speaker 4: There's really so much in my book, but my friends
Speaker 4: like not many any connections.
Speaker 5: Do you guys have any ideas, like any hot takes?
Speaker 3: I would say one that I this is just so
Speaker 3: like irrelevant. I hate going out with people that aren't
Speaker 3: on the same page as me about what we're doing.
Speaker 5: Oh okay.
Speaker 3: So like this week we were like out and these
Speaker 3: two girls were just trying not to have a good time,
Speaker 3: and I was like, so go into your room, like
Speaker 3: we're having a pregame in the kitchen. If you're going
Speaker 3: to just sit there and be miserable and your bed
Speaker 3: is downstairs, just go lay down like you. If I'm
Speaker 3: feeling anti social, I will I will retreat. Yes, I
Speaker 3: will retreat. I won't put my bad mood on everyone else.
Speaker 3: We've talked about this self isolated. Yes, So in that situation,
Speaker 3: I was like, am I like a bitch for like
Speaker 3: thinking that these girls should like go like not be
Speaker 3: here right now? Like we're all listening to music, we're
Speaker 3: having fun, we're drinking, and like they very much so
Speaker 3: are reading that they don't want to be here and
Speaker 3: they don't have to be here. Yeah right, So like
Speaker 3: are they just here because of fomo? So that was
Speaker 3: my immunity necklace this week.
Speaker 5: And then they're holding you hostage.
Speaker 3: They're holding us hostage. I wanted to vote them out.
Speaker 5: Next time you vote yourself off the island.
Speaker 4: That's what you do when you're okay, I have one
Speaker 4: thank you?
Speaker 5: Yes, immunity necklace. But I think Michelin Star restaurants are overrated.
Speaker 3: I like this, okay.
Speaker 4: I am just like stop with a little sprinkles of
Speaker 4: like gold flame and caviar on your ice cream. I
Speaker 4: just want chocolate cookie dough peanut butter cup ice cream,
Speaker 4: and I want it to be big.
Speaker 5: I wanted like a big, giant bowl of it, not
Speaker 5: like a.
Speaker 4: Teaspoon that took you twenty years to formulate the recipe
Speaker 4: that you had to source the ingredients from Okinawa.
Speaker 5: Like I'm so real.
Speaker 6: I'm into two Michelin star restaurants now. And I went
Speaker 6: to French Laundry in Napo, which is like a three
Speaker 6: star Michelin restaurant, and there was a point where the
Speaker 6: service was so good that I was like, can you
Speaker 6: guys just give me a second?
Speaker 5: Like they were like waiting on his.
Speaker 6: Hand and foot, and it felt so overwhelming. So I
Speaker 6: kind of like this hot take because I agree. I
Speaker 6: was like, I almost wish you guys ignored us for a.
Speaker 1: Little bit, like and the deconstructed, Like if there's like
Speaker 1: four plates for one dish.
Speaker 5: Just give me the peanut butter and jelly, right, Like I.
Speaker 1: Don't need the jelly, the peanuts and like the butter,
Speaker 1: and I have to make it myself.
Speaker 4: I leave.
Speaker 5: They're hungry, you're starving. I knew it. I knew it.
Speaker 3: I went to in Mexico and I did not think
Speaker 3: it was good. I feel like they're always just trying
Speaker 3: to throw like a fish in there somewhere, and like,
Speaker 3: let's just not chilling the fish, chilling the beats, Like
Speaker 3: I don't want to beat South something gel too.
Speaker 7: I hate a beat, salad, something that's like, yeah, something
Speaker 7: that's all.
Speaker 5: Heal, flaw ruck cheese. No, give me a grilled cheese.
Speaker 5: I'm so happy.
Speaker 3: Rap wrapping up? Is there? So our demographic is mostly
Speaker 3: women who listen to this, and your book is obviously
Speaker 3: about being a woman. Nice girls don't win. What is
Speaker 3: one advice you would give to a woman in their
Speaker 3: twenties kind of feeling stuck in life? Or is there
Speaker 3: any like words of inspiration that you wish you could
Speaker 3: give yourself, whether it was when you were twenty two
Speaker 3: and playing your first season of Survivor twenty four and
Speaker 3: you win a million dollars? Like, is there any advice
Speaker 3: to women you would like love to instill in somebody?
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
Speaker 4: If there is a door in front of you that
Speaker 4: you're curious about. Walk through the door. Open the door,
Speaker 4: walk through it, find out what's on the other side.
Speaker 4: Don't be afraid to get messy. Your life is not
Speaker 4: supposed to be linear. You're not supposed to have it
Speaker 4: all figured out when you're in your twenties. Explore all
Speaker 4: the possibilities and don't be afraid to embarrass yourself because
Speaker 4: you probably will and it's really okay. So just make
Speaker 4: sure that you have some good friends and some people
Speaker 4: that you can laugh with and like, go down some
Speaker 4: dead ends, turn around, play in the dirt, like just
Speaker 4: get messy, and definitely always walk through the door.
Speaker 5: Oh I wish you were my sister.
Speaker 7: It feels like read the book.
Speaker 3: So what's next? Are we doing a book chour? Is there? Like?
Speaker 3: And I think I saw an interview with Rob Sesterna
Speaker 3: that you might be working on producing a show of
Speaker 3: your own coming out.
Speaker 5: Actually, I really am so excited.
Speaker 3: I mean to people, because we are I do, we.
Speaker 4: Will be casting, so expect a phone call. I am
Speaker 4: currently actively presently on a book tour. This is a
Speaker 4: stop on my time and yeah, it's super fun. I
Speaker 4: have that big drag show and that's gonna be a blast.
Speaker 4: I'm selling books at a drag show like Coolt's tell
Speaker 4: you yeah.
Speaker 5: I go to DC. I go to the Mall of America,
Speaker 5: which is like what we always rides in there.
Speaker 3: I know I always want to go there.
Speaker 5: Well, I'll tell you how to.
Speaker 4: And then I'm back in La at the Grove for
Speaker 4: the final sort of official stop on the book tour,
Speaker 4: and I am I've created and developed a show with
Speaker 4: my friend Amy Bean, who we co host our podcast,
Speaker 4: Nice Carlton Whim and the show is so campy and fun.
Speaker 4: It's a horror reality competition show.
Speaker 5: What it is really good.
Speaker 4: It's a never before done concept and I'm super pumped
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 5: We're pitching it.
Speaker 4: We've had a few pitches already. We've got a few
Speaker 4: more when I get back. And then I'm also working
Speaker 4: on something with another network that we are pitching in July.
Speaker 4: So something's gonna pop and it's gonna be great.
Speaker 3: That's amazing. Thank you so much. Where can everyone follow you?
Speaker 4: I'm p Shallow on Instagram, on TikTok exclusively on one
Speaker 4: platforms all.
Speaker 5: I can handle me get you on TikTok, No I
Speaker 5: can't do it unless you run it.
Speaker 3: I'll run it for you. Okay, you run it for
Speaker 3: And where can we buy your book?
Speaker 5: You can buy my book anywhere books are sold. Amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 5: but the link is in my bio too.
Speaker 3: Wow. You made the stream come true. The tribe has spoken.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Bye guys, fue