WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.080 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them. Gaesy Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker VTK. Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:32.759 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 7 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:44.719 Good Evening, the best selling author of Narco eighty, returns 8 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:47.960 to true Murder with a riveting story of mid nineteen 9 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:52.079 eighty San Diego that placed one young black man at 10 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:55.079 the center of a whirlwind of crime and punishment that 11 00:00:55.200 --> 00:01:01.600 profoundly altered southern California. March thirty first, nineteen eighty five, 12 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.519 two white patrol officers in search of a gang member, 13 00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:09.159 followed a pickup truck carrying seven young black men up 14 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:15.959 a dirt driveway in the Encanto neighborhood of southeastern San Diego. 15 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:20.959 Minutes later, gunshots rang out and the truck's driver, Sagon Penn, 16 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:26.159 fled the scene in an officer's patrol car. The incident 17 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:32.000 stunned the city. What followed would change it forever. Penn 18 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:35.120 was an idealist who believed in the power of Buddhist 19 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:39.319 chance to bring about the oneness of humanity. The two 20 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:43.159 police officers were rising stars in one of the most 21 00:01:43.159 --> 00:01:47.319 progressive police departments in the country, yet one that had 22 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:51.400 suffered more officers killed in the line of duty than 23 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:55.120 any other. While the facts of the case were never 24 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:59.799 in dispute, what remained unresolved was what, if anything, could 25 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:05.959 justify such a violent confrontation. For over two years, a 26 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:10.680 determined prosecutor and a charismatic defense attorney engaged in a 27 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.479 sensational courtroom drama that revolved a round matters of mental health, 28 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:20.520 racial biases, and the self image of a once sleepy 29 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:27.400 beach town grappling with its transformation into a major metropolitan area. 30 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:32.000 The Sagon Penn incident forever altered how San Diego would 31 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:38.400 respond to incidents involving police and communities of color. The 32 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:45.080 book they were featuring this evening is Reap the Whirlwind, Violence, Race, Justice, 33 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:49.400 and the Story of Sagon Penn, with my special guest, 34 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:55.240 freelance writer and author Peter Holahan. Welcome to the program. 35 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:57.680 Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much 36 00:02:57.680 --> 00:02:58.439 for this interview. 37 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:02.439 Peter Wholahan, Dan, thank you so much for having me. 38 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:07.319 Thank you so much, and congratulations on your new book credible. 39 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:09.479 Oh terrific. Thank you so much for that. 40 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:14.319 Let's talk about right away, as you do in your book, 41 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:19.599 about Southeast San Diego, San Diego, but also specifically Southeast 42 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:23.719 San Diego where this takes place, and also the state 43 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:27.280 of San Diego, Southeast San Diego in nineteen eighty five. 44 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:33.520 Sure, there's an important setup to all this, and one is, 45 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.719 of course, the era. This was March thirty first, nineteen 46 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:40.520 eighty five, and the place was San Diego. One thing 47 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:43.400 that's interesting about San Diego is it was a little 48 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:45.680 bit of a different kind of city. It was a 49 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:49.520 city that had experienced very fast growth, so it had 50 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:52.560 become one of the top ten most populous cities in 51 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:55.319 the country, but it still had this attitude that it 52 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:57.840 was a beach town, you know, that it wasn't a 53 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:02.280 big city. It didn't it didn't have big city problems, 54 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:05.080 and it was easy for it to see that to 55 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:09.240 feel that way because it economically did very well. But 56 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:13.039 the area that was that was having troubles in nineteen 57 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:16.920 eighty five, as were most inner cities of most bait 58 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:22.199 big cities, was Southeast San Diego, and that was a 59 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:25.839 whole minority community and the area of Encanto and the 60 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:30.959 areas around that within Southeast San Diego were primarily black. 61 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:34.439 The black population San Diego has never exceeded more than 62 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:37.879 six or seven percent, So this was a community that 63 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:40.560 was small and was very easy for the rest of 64 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:43.560 San Diego to overlook. So this was a community that 65 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:49.199 was starting to experience violence, harder drugs, more deadly gangs, 66 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:52.079 and a lot of guns. The rest of the city 67 00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:55.680 sort of refused to believe it. The people in saying 68 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:58.360 Southeast San Diego felt like they were being ignored and 69 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:02.160 underserved and under a appreciated. There was another group that 70 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:05.480 also felt that way, and those were the police officers 71 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:10.439 who policed the area. Symptoms of San Diego not believing 72 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:13.240 it was a big city with big city problems was 73 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.759 it kept its police force extremely small. Per capita is 74 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:21.199 about the easily the lowest per capita police officer per 75 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:25.079 citizen in the country. That force was also feeling like 76 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.519 they were having increasing difficulty controlling the crime levels that 77 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:33.199 were in that area, and they had become by nineteen 78 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:39.199 eighty five, the highest line of duty per capita death 79 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:42.279 rate of any police force in the country. If you 80 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:45.160 were a San Diego police officer in nineteen eighty five, 81 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:47.079 you were more likely to die in the line of 82 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:50.439 duty than in any other major city, fifteen times as 83 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:54.439 likely as Los Angeles. So that's kind of the setup 84 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:56.399 behind the events that happened. 85 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:59.959 Then in the book, let's talk about March thirty first, 86 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.319 nineteen eighty five and tell us a little bit about 87 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:08.399 Segon Penn and his brother Sean and five others why 88 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:12.279 they were out that night near this Balboa Park. Tell 89 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:15.079 us a little bit about the circumstances that led them 90 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:19.360 to be Sagon Penn with his brother and these other 91 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:20.439 five friends. 92 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:25.279 Certainly, Segon Penn is a twenty three year old black man. 93 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:30.439 He is a at the time, very involved in Buddhism 94 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:34.560 and a Buddhist organization, and he's kind of naive and idealistic. 95 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:38.199 He believes in chanting for world peace, the brotherhood of man, 96 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:41.279 and things like that. He's quite a searcher, He's kind 97 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:44.680 of he grabs onto different ideologies and different beliefs and 98 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:48.319 things like that. He's also a black belt in taekwondo, 99 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:53.639 which comes into play in this incident. On this Sunday afternoon, 100 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:58.879 Segon Penn took his younger brother, his teenage brother, and 101 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:03.519 some of his teenage brothers friends to Balboa Park. That's 102 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:07.439 the very big city, beautiful big city park in San Diego. 103 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:10.560 While they were there, they bumped into three other friends 104 00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:16.120 and who joined them when they drove home at approximately 105 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:21.120 five forty five PM leaving the park. One thing is 106 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:25.879 important to remember about this is while there is seven 107 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:30.000 people in the truck, Segon Penn and six others other 108 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:33.680 than his younger half brother and one other twenty one 109 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:36.240 year old twenty two year old in the truck, Segan 110 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.360 Penn had no did not know anyone else in this truck. 111 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:42.279 So this was not a whole group of This was 112 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:45.879 not Segon Penn and six of his best friends. These 113 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:49.199 others really didn't know him at all. Coming back from 114 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:51.759 Balboa Park, he's on his way to drop some of 115 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:55.720 the riders off. He's driving a white pickup truck. Five 116 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:58.360 of the young black men are in the back, a 117 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:01.199 black female and another young black man, and Segon Pen 118 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:03.160 are in the cab of the truck, all of which 119 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:06.000 is legal at that time, and they are making their 120 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:09.879 way back into the southeast, into the community of Encanto 121 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:12.800 when this incident occurs. 122 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.600 Now tell us about Officer Donovan Jacobs a little bit 123 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.160 about his background. You say he's a twelve year veteran 124 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:24.399 of the San Diego Police Department. So tell us about 125 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:28.040 why he and what is he responding to in terms 126 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:31.680 of dispatch sending him to an area. What is he 127 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:32.440 responding to? 128 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.480 Sure, Donovan Jacobs is twenty seven years old at the time. 129 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:41.039 He's a rising star out of the patrol officer ranks 130 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:44.720 in the San Diego Police Department. He's been he's been 131 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:48.679 promoted to the rank of agent, which is still a 132 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:55.080 uniform patrol officer. It's one step above a patrol officer 133 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:57.759 and one step below a sergeant. So he's got authority 134 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:00.480 and he's on the streets now. Donovan Jakes is a 135 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:02.759 guy who makes a lot of what they call contacts 136 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:07.279 and a lot of arrests. You know, he pursues crime. 137 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:09.759 He's one of the five percenters they call him, that 138 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:13.879 are aggressively pursue crime. They go where the crimes are 139 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:17.600 and they they approach and make contact with anybody they 140 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:20.559 think is or he thinks and that it may be 141 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:25.279 involved in a crime. He's kind of aggressive on these stops. 142 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.559 His method is to approach people pretty abruptly and try 143 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.960 to rattle them and if they in order that they 144 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:34.440 might slip up and give him a reason, a probable 145 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:38.799 cause for a search. On this day, he is responding 146 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:42.000 to the report of a gang member with a gun 147 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:45.679 in the Encanto area, about a half mile away from 148 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:49.480 this where this incident eventually occurs. The report was a 149 00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:52.200 young man in the neighborhood had an altercation with three 150 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:54.960 other young men and one of the three pulled a 151 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:57.679 gun on him and threatened him, and then they went 152 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:00.279 walked away in the direction of the inc to a 153 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:05.360 recreation center. And so responding to the call was Donovan Jacobs, 154 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:09.480 backed up by another officer who was Thomas Riggs. He's 155 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:12.759 also twenty seven years old and he's also an agent. 156 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.679 But Tom Riggs is kind of a laid back cop, 157 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:18.480 a guy who just kind of observes and is really 158 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.759 also rising through the ranks, but really kind of a 159 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:25.559 different method of policing. And along with Tom Riggs is 160 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:29.200 a thirty three year old civilian ride along named Sarah 161 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:33.240 Pina Ruiz. She is just a woman who is interested 162 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.759 in possibly joining law enforcement. So the three of them 163 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:41.000 respond to this. They take a pretty routine report, and 164 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:45.840 then they leave that scene and they begin heading eastbound 165 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:49.279 on Brooklyn Avenue looking for a gang member with a gun. 166 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:54.360 It's not an especially high alert call or it's this 167 00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:58.000 is not all that uncommon in the Encanto area, but 168 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:00.600 that's what they're doing. They are now searching with Tom 169 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:03.600 Riggs and the lead Donovan Jacobs, following, looking up and 170 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:07.679 down side streets as they had east on Brooklyn Avenue. 171 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:13.480 You're right that Donovan Jacobs is the first to arrive 172 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:17.480 and see this white vehicle. Is there something that he 173 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:20.600 notes about the white vehicle or believes about this white 174 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:23.960 vehicle for a reason to stop this vehicle. 175 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:30.080 Yes. When they reach sixty fifth Street, they turn up. 176 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:32.679 These are the two police officers. They turn up sixty 177 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:36.320 fifth Street in the direction of the Encanto Recreation Center. 178 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:39.559 Coming the other way down the road is Segon Penn 179 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:42.399 in the white pickup truck, on his way to drop 180 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:45.240 off some of his riders at a house on Brooklyn Avenue. 181 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:50.120 Donovan Jacobs later said that he believed that one of 182 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:53.919 the young men in the in the bed of the 183 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:59.320 truck was wearing crip colors, which are traditionally blue but 184 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:03.720 sometimes black, that he therefore thought that he might possibly 185 00:12:04.279 --> 00:12:09.679 be their suspect, and he radios Tom Riggs and says, 186 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:13.320 I'm gonna need to turn around and pull over that 187 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.279 truckload of crips. 188 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:20.120 You talk about the corner of sixty fifth Street there 189 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:24.480 happens to be the Apostolic Faith Garden of Prayer Chapel, 190 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:28.440 but also the home of Irma and Carlton Smith and 191 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:33.559 their six children. There is Sunday school teacher Dimitri Shelby 192 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:38.519 visiting with Irma. The church organist David Demps sat in 193 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:41.639 the back room with Carlton and a friend, Alan Sapita. 194 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.639 And you also talk about next door where a person 195 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:50.600 named Anthony Lovett and his girlfriend Angela mckibbon tell us 196 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:55.200 about the proximity of these people and what they saw 197 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:56.799 and how they reacted. 198 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.519 Yes, the location that this occurred was a up a 199 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:04.399 dirt driveway at sixty five sixty four Brooklyn Avenue. And 200 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:08.240 what happened when Donovan Jacobs turned around and began to 201 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:11.240 follow Segon Penn and then Tom Riggs did the same. 202 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.279 They really only followed for like half a block eye 203 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.559 before Segon Penn just turned up this long driveway. Now 204 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:22.600 important to note about this neighborhood again south central southeast 205 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:27.159 San Diego, a primarily minority and primarily black neighborhood. It's 206 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:30.480 a very social atmosphere. Brooklyn Avenue is a dead end 207 00:13:30.519 --> 00:13:34.279 street right there. So there's a lot of children playing, 208 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.120 people are out in their front yards, they're talking to neighbors. 209 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:40.600 And then there are these two kind of storefront well 210 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:43.639 a little bit more the churches at the corner. And 211 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:47.039 we're only talking about, you know, eight hundred feet long 212 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:50.080 dead end portion of that road. And so there are 213 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:53.320 in the end there will be forty at least forty, 214 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:57.919 maybe forty to fifty eyewitnesses to some or all of 215 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.960 this incident that occurs, of which our children fifteen years 216 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:09.240 old or younger. So this is a very heavily witnessed incident. Segon, 217 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:13.279 and as you mentioned, a few that come in very 218 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:17.679 large role later on and witnessed. This was the family 219 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.799 of Carlton Smith that was immediately adjacent to this driveway 220 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.480 that the officers drove up to follow Segon Penn, and 221 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:28.200 he had six children. There was a large amount of 222 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.159 people in his yard. He was kind of the center 223 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:32.679 of activity that house at the end of that dirt 224 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:35.679 driveway where they were dropping off. Some of their writers 225 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:40.279 were indeed Anthony Lovett, who was a aspiring rapper, his 226 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:44.639 girlfriend Angela mckibbon lived in any duplex, and this is 227 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:47.200 you know, this is kind of a gritty neighborhood, but 228 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:51.120 a very socially active neighborhood. The others folks, there was 229 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:54.480 members of the church, there was people who taught the 230 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:59.039 Sunday school teacher, and others that were around that eventually witnessed. 231 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:03.840 This played a very intimate role in the entire story. 232 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:09.200 So let's get to what the witnesses do. See what 233 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.600 does a Segon is asked by police to do? 234 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:19.600 First off, Yeah, there is, of course, much of what 235 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:23.240 occurred is contested, and I try to make sure I 236 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:27.519 represent that very clearly, particularly in the trial that followed. However, 237 00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:30.360 there's quite a lot of it that is not contested 238 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:34.960 and is agreed upon, and I'll tell you what that is. Then, 239 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:38.679 you know, maybe we can talk about where the two 240 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.919 sides differed on who was responsible for all of this 241 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:44.639 in general. Segan pen gets up to the top of 242 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:47.639 this driveway, it's about one hundred foot driveway. He steps 243 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:50.360 out of his pickup truck. He parks up near the house, 244 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.720 and the other members riding in the bed have already 245 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.440 seen the police officers, and they start to kind of 246 00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:59.080 jump out of the back and the people in the 247 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:01.759 front kind of get out of the cab. Donovan Jacobs 248 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:05.240 follows with his lights on, not sirens, and parks about 249 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:09.279 twenty feet short of segon Pen's truck and it is 250 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:13.919 blocking his exit, blocking the exit from the driveway. At 251 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:17.919 about twenty feet behind him, Tom Riggs pulls up in 252 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.720 his vehicle. Donovan, this is what universally agreed upon is 253 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:25.120 Donovan Jacob's eggs his vehicle. He approaches Segon Pen, who's 254 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.320 already out of his vehicle. He begins to ask him 255 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:32.279 for his driver's license. Segon Pen appears to be surprised 256 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:35.080 to find that a police officer is approaching him. He 257 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:40.000 becomes what people generally described as blustered or discouraged, and 258 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:43.360 he tries to hand over his entire wallet, and Donovan 259 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.759 Jacob says, I cannot take your wallet. You're going to 260 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.840 have to take your license out. Segan Pen just keeps 261 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:51.159 insisting you could take my wallet. Man, You know I 262 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.759 got nothing in there. It's this little thin kind of 263 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.080 nylon wallet. He's saying, you know, I got nothing to hide, 264 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:58.639 and Jacobs keeps saying, I can't take your wallet. You 265 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:01.399 need to you need to take a license out. And 266 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.079 this goes on, you know, three or four times, with 267 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:08.720 Pen getting more frustrated, Donovan Jacobs getting more stern with 268 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:13.440 his insistent with his instructions to take the wallet out. 269 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.559 Penn becomes frustrated, throws his hands up in the air, 270 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:21.279 turns around to walk away, says oh man. Jacobs reaches out, 271 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.799 grabs him by his shoulder and pulls him back. Pen 272 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:29.759 shrugs off Jacob's hand from his shoulder and says, don't 273 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:33.759 touch me. Man. By all accounts and very few people 274 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:36.319 can figure it happens so fast. I'm not sure exactly 275 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.000 what happened, but within seconds Donovan Jacobs had his baton 276 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:44.920 out and then an altercation physical altercation occurred between Donovan 277 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.359 Jacobs Segon Pen, in which Jacobs was swinging his baton 278 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:54.279 at Pen, and Penn, being a essentially a black belt 279 00:17:54.319 --> 00:18:00.279 in taekwondo, is blocking almost all of the baton brows Biggs, 280 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:02.759 who is speaking with the riders in the back of 281 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:04.480 the truck on the other side of the truck, looks 282 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.519 up and sees that this has erupted into an altercation 283 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.920 very quickly, by the way, this is all within you know, 284 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:15.000 within half a minute of the first encounter. And he 285 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:19.200 comes around and all he sees is that Donovan Jacobs 286 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:21.559 is involved in an altercation where he is getting his 287 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:26.000 baton knocked out. You know, he's not succeeding in handing this. 288 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:30.400 This suspect Riggs pulls his baton and hits a Segon 289 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.440 Pen several times in the back, and then this altercation 290 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:35.680 continues from there. 291 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:41.359 You write that meanwhile there are people again, a crowd 292 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.640 of over forty people are yelling things at these police 293 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:49.039 that this is not necessary. And there's also soon after 294 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:52.759 someone calls police. Andy mckibbon. 295 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:57.759 Yes, obviously, when the when the truck, followed by two 296 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:00.920 police cars goes up a dead end street, truck with 297 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.720 six young black men and it people stop and they 298 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.839 look the folks in the truck again, they're not good 299 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:10.200 friends with Segon Pen, but they sort of can't believe 300 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.359 how this has suddenly turned into this physical confrontation. I 301 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.920 think it's important to note that it was never contested. 302 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.640 It was agreed upon that Segon Pen was breaking no laws, 303 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:24.200 that nobody in the truck had broken any laws, and 304 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.079 they were not carrying anything you know, that would be 305 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:29.960 illegal at the time, so this is all a pretty 306 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.680 shocking development to all of them. The riders in the 307 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.319 truck begin to circle in pretty close and saying stop, 308 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:38.920 hey man, stop, and I think some of them are saying, 309 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.880 you know, what are you doing? And Penn is also saying, 310 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:45.000 hey man, stop, you know, you know what are you doing? 311 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:48.079 And but he's not giving up, quote giving up, He's 312 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:51.319 not submitting. So then of course people from the neighborhood 313 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.039 start to come up the driveway, They wander up, people 314 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.000 in the church start to come up to look, people 315 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.880 in houses start to come out and there, and soon 316 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:03.599 as this physical confrontation with the officers throwing baton, blows, 317 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.160 Pen blocking but also being struck, Pen striking back a 318 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.599 few times. He apparently like kind of open handed thrusts, 319 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:14.480 but he knocks Donovan Jacobs down and Jacobs loses his 320 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:18.319 baton at one point. So this moves down this dirt 321 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:22.279 driveway with the crowd following and people yelling and people saying, 322 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.240 you know, is this how you protect and serve? You know, 323 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:26.960 what are you doing. You don't have to hit him 324 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:29.839 like that. But also some people are trying to encourage 325 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:35.799 segon Pen to submit, and then what happens is segon 326 00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:39.720 Pen and Donovan Jacobs fall to the ground. This appears 327 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:42.880 to be Donovan Jacobs, no longer with his baton, kind 328 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:45.759 of tackles segon Pen. Pen says he kind of allowed 329 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.359 him to go down because he figured that would end it. 330 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:51.440 But segon Pen is on his back. Donovan Jacobs is 331 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:55.799 straddling him. By Jacob's own admission, he punches him a 332 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:59.119 few times because segon Pen is waving his hands above 333 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.759 his head, saying stop stop, you know you got me, 334 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.880 but he's not giving up. He's thrashing his hands around 335 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:09.480 because he's starting to panic. Tom Riggs is standing above him. 336 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:12.880 Some say he was striking Pen hard with a baton, 337 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:16.039 many others say he was sort of tapping at it 338 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:18.440 at his arms to get him to drop his hands. 339 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:20.960 Both were telling him to turn over. Some people in 340 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.160 the crowd are telling Pen to turn over so he 341 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:26.279 could be cuffed, but by then Penn is in a panic. 342 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:28.400 He's lying on his back. He's got one officer on 343 00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.440 top of him. He's got another one by his head. Now, 344 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:33.240 let me tell you a very crucial part that you 345 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:35.799 brought up, and that is the phone call. That is 346 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.039 the nine to one one call that is put in 347 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:43.200 by Angela mckibbon, and it is put the call is 348 00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.960 placed around the time that hen is on the ground 349 00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:51.440 struggling with the other with the officers. A neighbor had 350 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.799 called had walked out of his house, Carlton Smith, and 351 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:57.319 yelled to her and Anthony Lovett, who was standing in 352 00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:02.519 their doorway, astounded by what's happening, and he said said 353 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.079 to them, call the police and make sure they send 354 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:10.160 black ones. Angela mckibbon is nineteen years old, I believe 355 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:13.599 at the time, and she is absolutely unnerved. And she 356 00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:16.000 picks up this phone and she places a call. But 357 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:18.960 when she places it, her first sentence is very calm. 358 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:23.480 So when the nine woman officer says, what's your emergency, 359 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:26.960 she says, I want to report some police brutality going 360 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:31.240 on right in front of my house. The nine one 361 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.839 one operator is not very receptive to this. She kind 362 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.400 of turns cold and says, what's the emergency? And this 363 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.400 flusters Angela mckibbon, who hands the phone to Doria Jones, 364 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.640 who was a young woman in the truck, the only 365 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:47.799 woman in the truck. She says, when she comes on 366 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:50.720 the phone to talk to the nine one one officers, 367 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:59.200 there are gunshots erupt outside. She says, hurry up, they're shooting. Well, 368 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:01.759 he says, hurry up, he's shooting him. And then the 369 00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:05.920 the of course nine one one officer operator becomes a 370 00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:08.200 little more serious about this call, a little more alarmed. 371 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:13.240 The call quickly degenerates into screaming and yelling of panicked, 372 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:16.799 you know, hysterical panic people in the background and can't 373 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:19.359 hear what's being said as the operator asks, you know, 374 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:22.160 where are you located? Where are you located? And then 375 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.799 the call goes dead because the cord and the phone 376 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:28.160 got kicked out by somebody, and the people in the 377 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:31.079 house had run at the sound of the first gunshots. 378 00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:34.440 They were the people in the truck, other witnesses. Everybody 379 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:37.440 ran for their lives the minute the first gunshot rang out, 380 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.839 and nobody at that point really knew what the heck 381 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.640 had happened and how that gunshot had had come about. 382 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:49.680 Only a few could later testify as to how that came. 383 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:53.039 About, but Jesus has an opportunity to stop to hear 384 00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:58.559 these messages. Now you say, there's chaos ensues. They hear 385 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:02.519 the popping sound, and while she's on the phone, she 386 00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:05.839 hears in the initial two or three pops and then 387 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:11.559 a couple additional other gunshots. So again nobody knows what's 388 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:14.839 going on. The police are on the line. There is 389 00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:19.240 confusion as to the location. As you say, they seem 390 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:21.720 to be confused as to exactly where they're supposed to 391 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:25.240 arrive at the police. But let's get back to Thomas 392 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.200 Rigg is on the ground, Donovan Jacobs is on the 393 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:32.880 ground at this crime scene. But where is this ride along, 394 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.839 this person that was had an interest in being a 395 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:40.640 police officer, where is she in this situation? 396 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:44.319 During this whole encounter, she remained in the police car 397 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:46.480 with the wind the windows rolled up. You know, you're 398 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.680 not supposed to put a ride along in danger, nor 399 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.680 did she want to be, so she is observing this. 400 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:55.440 The original altercation is about forty feet away. When they 401 00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:58.000