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<v Speaker 1>Amy seemed to have it all, a loving family, a

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<v Speaker 1>thriving dog training business, and deep roots in both her

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<v Speaker 1>local community and a conservative church. But in twenty sixteen,

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<v Speaker 1>her seemingly peaceful life took a terrifying turn when FBI

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<v Speaker 1>agents showed up at her door with an unbelievable warning.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone had gone on to the dark Web and tried

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<v Speaker 1>to hire a hitman to kill her. The Murder for

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<v Speaker 1>Higher Sight, known as Bessa mafia, operated in the shadows

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<v Speaker 1>of the Internet, where bitcoin fueled contracts and anonymous users

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<v Speaker 1>promised violets for a price. This is the story of

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<v Speaker 1>Amy Alwines Dark Web murder.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked Ingrim, a.

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<v Speaker 1>True crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>The following.

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<v Speaker 1>Material in more mature audience listener.

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<v Speaker 3>Discretion Welcome, Welcome.

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<v Speaker 2>We sat down to record this and we're like, oh shit,

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<v Speaker 2>you sound more sick than either of us realized. Stuff. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so I guess we're just gonna make you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll do it anyways. I'm fine.

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<v Speaker 2>I know. I was like, do you are you sure?

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<v Speaker 2>It's funny because I've been with you for days and

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<v Speaker 2>sitting here, I can tell you you'res more sick than

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<v Speaker 2>I have like the past days, just in your.

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<v Speaker 1>The headphones though we're on that that helps to right,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess, yeah, but yeah, I feel all like nasally

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<v Speaker 1>congestion and stuff. But other than that, I feel fine.

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<v Speaker 1>A little groggy in the morning, that's it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I guess you're gonna just push through.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, I will. I've got coffee. I was gonna have

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<v Speaker 1>a breakfast beer this morning, but oh my goodness, I

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<v Speaker 1>was thinking of it. But I needed, especially to sound

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit better this morning. I needed a warm

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<v Speaker 1>beverage to ensure that. You know, it's helping soothe me.

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<v Speaker 2>Fair enough, we should have done some nice like soothing

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<v Speaker 2>tea for you or something.

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<v Speaker 1>What's wrong with soothing coffee? It's called caffeine. That's technically

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<v Speaker 1>a drug. I'm not saying it's going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>drug to help this, but it is technically a drug.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, it is. I'm like, I don't want to respond

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<v Speaker 2>to that without getting backlash.

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<v Speaker 1>So fair enough. We also may have some background noise

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<v Speaker 1>here in today's episode. In the next few episodes, we

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<v Speaker 1>may because we recently purchased the new baby Baby Chicks

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<v Speaker 1>Baby Chicken for our chicken flock, and so we have

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<v Speaker 1>them in the house right now on a heat lamp

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<v Speaker 1>and everything, and they're they're living their best life right now.

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<v Speaker 2>So they're literally the cue. I'm obsessed. I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm more obsessed with these than the last ones. But

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<v Speaker 2>I probably was just as obsessed and I forgot.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably it's just the new babies, right. So, but you

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<v Speaker 1>guys might hear the odd cheap in the background, sort

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<v Speaker 1>of a little cheap cheap cheap going as they're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>maybe get their own podcast going. Who knows.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, sometimes these ones, especially gonna be pretty loud, so

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<v Speaker 2>I'm hoping maybe they'll just snap while we're doing this.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe we should just put like a towel over their

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<v Speaker 1>little little enclosure for now or something.

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<v Speaker 2>If it gets real bad, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Force them to sleep, you know. Anyways, we have some

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<v Speaker 1>patrons to thank today, we sure do, so shout out

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<v Speaker 1>and thank you to Kelly Scriven, Bonnie and Jay Yellowhorn.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much. You guys signed up on Patreon

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<v Speaker 1>you get all the good behind the scenes stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course the exclusive episode coming out at the.

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<v Speaker 2>End of the month, right dang, which is very soon. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>who that is How the heck is that a thing?

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<v Speaker 1>Time flies? Honestly, it's absurd.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like this year is flying by way faster

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<v Speaker 2>than usual.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you want to know something wild, This case takes

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<v Speaker 1>place in twenty sixteen that we're covering today. Okay, that's

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<v Speaker 1>a decade ago. Yeah, How the is that a decade ago?

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<v Speaker 2>It's so funny any case that you do that's like

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<v Speaker 2>since I've been alive, I'm like, oh, it's not that old. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>Like you could even do one in the nineties and

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<v Speaker 2>I'd be like, oh, okay, this is fairly new, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>not anymore for me.

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<v Speaker 1>It started with COVID. At COVID, things started going so fast,

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<v Speaker 1>Like twenty sixteen is three years before COVID, and I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like COVID was like three years ago. So I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like five six years ago. It's fairly recent. But no,

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<v Speaker 1>COVID was twenty nineteen. Here we are in twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>We're like, that's a decade ago almost, well not almost

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<v Speaker 1>for COVID, but you know what I mean, it's approaching

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<v Speaker 1>right crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I feel like the beginning of May just started

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<v Speaker 2>and now here we are at the end.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so we need to go golfing and mountain biking more.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, we've I've been well mountain bike. I've been doing

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<v Speaker 2>it least weekly, which has been nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm just saying, because soon.

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<v Speaker 2>The freaking summer is going to be over. Directly, just

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<v Speaker 2>settle down where summer's just starting here.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll get down. Okay, I'll settle down. It's all good.

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<v Speaker 1>Want to get into the case.

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<v Speaker 2>I do.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, let's get into it here. So Amy Allwine

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<v Speaker 1>was the kind of person who brought a light into

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<v Speaker 1>the room, you know, just simply by walking in. Friends

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<v Speaker 1>described her as warm, endlessly kind, and deeply empathetic. She

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<v Speaker 1>also wasn't the type to gossip or past judgment. She

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<v Speaker 1>simply just radiated sincerity. Born Amy Zutz in December of

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy two, she grew up in a devote Christian

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<v Speaker 1>household in Minnesota. Her family were fundamentalists and members of

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<v Speaker 1>the Worldwide Church of God, denomination that followed the Bible's

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<v Speaker 1>teachings to the letter. That meant no extracurriculars, no friends

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<v Speaker 1>outside of the church, and definitely no Christmas or Easter,

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<v Speaker 1>as both of those were considered pagan holidays. But despite

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<v Speaker 1>the restrictions, Amy thrived within her tight knit community. Her

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<v Speaker 1>childhood revolved around family, faith and church activities. She cheered

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<v Speaker 1>for the church basketball team and loved organizing dances. Amy's

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<v Speaker 1>path eventually crossed with Stephen Allwine in the early nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>nineties at Ambassador College in Texas, a now defunct liberal

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<v Speaker 1>arts school associated with her church. They met while working

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<v Speaker 1>in the IT department together, and their shared love of

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<v Speaker 1>dancing quickly turned into a deeper connection. Stephen was from Spokane, Washington,

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of a tech nerd, and Amy was all

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<v Speaker 1>warmth and light. A balance between the two of them worked,

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<v Speaker 1>or at least it seemed to. After graduating, Stephen moved

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<v Speaker 1>to Saint Paul, Minnesota, to be with Amy and her family,

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<v Speaker 1>and together they got married in August of nineteen ninety six.

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<v Speaker 1>During that ceremony, Amy's father placed her hand into Stephen's

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<v Speaker 1>hand and told him, quote, take good care of my

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<v Speaker 1>little girl. And for a while it looked like Stephen dead.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's so sweet, hey.

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<v Speaker 1>Together they built a life centered around their faith, and

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and seven, they adopted their son, Joe,

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<v Speaker 1>just two days after he was born. It was an

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<v Speaker 1>open adoption, and Amy maintained a respectful, ongoing relationship with

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<v Speaker 1>Joe's birth mother. She adored being a mom and it showed.

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<v Speaker 1>Amy and Joe were inseparable, and she never missed a

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<v Speaker 1>chance to include him in family traditions, like picking out

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<v Speaker 1>the best strawberries for her famous pie. Amy also turned

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<v Speaker 1>her lifelong love of animals into a thriving business active

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<v Speaker 1>dog sports training from obedience to nosework to agility trials.

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<v Speaker 1>She trained dogs out of a large arena they'd built

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<v Speaker 1>on their twenty acre property in Cottage Grove. The business

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<v Speaker 1>was successful, and her Australian shepherd often placed in national

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<v Speaker 1>competitions as well. In that world, she was well respected

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<v Speaker 1>not just for her skill, but also for her kindness.

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen meanwhile worked from home in the basement, holding down

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<v Speaker 1>two remote it jobs. He also had growing responsibilities within

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<v Speaker 1>the Church of God, where he'd risen to the level

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<v Speaker 1>of elder. He and Amy were also both ordained as

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<v Speaker 1>deacons and deaconess, and Stephen often gave sermons, counseled married couples,

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<v Speaker 1>and even anointed the sick too outsiders. The all Wines

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<v Speaker 1>were a model family, faithful, hard working, family oriented Stephen

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<v Speaker 1>and Amy shared a strong spiritual bond. Their lives were

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<v Speaker 1>guided by the involvement of the United Church of God,

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<v Speaker 1>a conservative denomination with strict moral codes and traditional values.

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<v Speaker 1>Every Saturday was the Sabbath, and they honored it without compromise.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't celebrate mainstream holidays like Christmas or Easter, as

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<v Speaker 1>I mentioned, they chose instead to focus on church annual festivals.

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<v Speaker 1>Their daily routine and belief system were tightly interwoven with

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<v Speaker 1>their faith. To people on their congregation, they were the

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<v Speaker 1>kind of couple you'd want to emulate. They were respectful, affectionate,

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<v Speaker 1>and committed to service with their adopted son, Joe. They

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<v Speaker 1>had two happy dogs and shared a love of the service,

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<v Speaker 1>and they looked like the kind of family you'd just

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<v Speaker 1>trust to house it while you were off on vacation

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<v Speaker 1>or lead your church group in pretty much any endeavor.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, honestly, it sounds like literally nothing could go wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm just sitting here just waiting for it to

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<v Speaker 2>get Well.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the thing. Yeah, behind closed doors, things generally are

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit different, and that's exactly the case here.

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<v Speaker 1>Because cracks were beginning to form, they were forming slowly

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<v Speaker 1>at first, but of course cracks grow over time.

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<v Speaker 2>If you don't fix those cracks, they're going to burst eventually.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly. Stephen wasn't quite the devote husband people believed he was,

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<v Speaker 1>though he maintained his public image as a preacher and counselor,

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<v Speaker 1>he was living a secret double life. While Amy was

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<v Speaker 1>traveling for dogcar competitions, something she frequently did as her

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<v Speaker 1>business grew, Stephen was using her absence to meet women online.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh boy.

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<v Speaker 1>At first it started with one, and then there were more.

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<v Speaker 1>And the way he went about it spoke volumes because

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<v Speaker 1>he didn't stumble into temptation. He sought it out actively

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<v Speaker 1>and methodically. Dang in fact online one of the sites

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<v Speaker 1>he used was an infamous one known as Ashley Madison,

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<v Speaker 1>a platform explicitly marketed towards married people looking to have affairs.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, its slogan at the time was even quote

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<v Speaker 1>life's short. Have an affair.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's quite the slogan, right.

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<v Speaker 1>At least they're being honest, I mean points to that,

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<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, a lot of negative points

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<v Speaker 1>are what they stand for and what they're doing.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. But I mean it was very like, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, if it still exists, probably, but it was

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<v Speaker 2>like really well used, so it.

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<v Speaker 1>Was well, there was a big thing at the time

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<v Speaker 1>where a lot of information got leads. I remember that, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't I have no idea if they're still

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<v Speaker 1>a thing or not. But I do remember when that happened,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, oh shit, yeah, it was a big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>Some spouses about to be pissed. Anyways, we digress. Steven

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<v Speaker 1>signed up for the site, but he didn't just flirt.

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<v Speaker 1>He actually followed through. One of the women he connected

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<v Speaker 1>with was woman by the name of Michelle Woodward. It

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<v Speaker 1>was an open marriage that she was in and they

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<v Speaker 1>started seeing each other in twenty fifteen. Their first date

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<v Speaker 1>was unusually personal, where Stephen took her to a doctor's appointment,

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<v Speaker 1>and after that they're affair grew physical and routine.

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<v Speaker 2>What the shit like he took her, Oh, took her

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<v Speaker 2>to the doctor.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she had a doctor's appointment and he drove her.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I thought that it was a date and

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<v Speaker 2>he was like taking her to see his doctor. I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, what the shit for himself? He an appointment.

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<v Speaker 2>I was so confused, but still that's okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Honest, it was probably like they're chatting online, like we

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<v Speaker 1>need to meet up. Are you free this day? This day?

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<v Speaker 1>How about Friday for me? Oh I got a doctor's appointment.

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<v Speaker 1>I can drive you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, probably how it went, that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but he even brought Michelle along on two of

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<v Speaker 1>his out of town work trips. Really, so yeah, there

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<v Speaker 1>were a pretty serious side thing going on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, during their time together, Stephen portrayed himself as a

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<v Speaker 1>victim of his marriage. He complained that Amy worked too

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<v Speaker 1>much and that she spent too much time away from home.

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<v Speaker 1>But he never once mentioned that he was a religious leader,

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<v Speaker 1>and she never knew that until actually she googled him

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<v Speaker 1>and figured it out for herself.

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<v Speaker 2>Huh.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So to those close to him, Stephen kept the

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<v Speaker 1>charade of being faithful, He kept that up. He was,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, this religious guy. He was a supportive husband,

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<v Speaker 1>but he was simply lying to everyone, to his church,

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<v Speaker 1>to his wife, and honestly even to his kid Joe.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and even to the I don't know, can you

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<v Speaker 2>call it a mistress? I guess I don't know. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>for the person he's having an affair with, he was even

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<v Speaker 2>lying to her.

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<v Speaker 1>He was definitely and honestly like having an affair. Might

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<v Speaker 1>not be a rhyme technically and legally, but the lank

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen would eventually go in order to maintain his reputation

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<v Speaker 1>to avoid the shame of divorce. Well, that's a different

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<v Speaker 1>story altogether. Which that's exactly what we're going to get into.

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<v Speaker 1>You see, for Stephen, his position in the church mattered

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<v Speaker 1>more than almost anything. Divorce was, of course, heavily frowned

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<v Speaker 1>upon in their religious circle. It could cost him his standings,

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<v Speaker 1>his social credibility, his carefully curated image that he had.

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<v Speaker 1>He wanted out of the marriage, but he didn't want

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<v Speaker 1>the consequences that came with asking for a divorce, So

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<v Speaker 1>instead of leaving Amy, he started planning something. In early

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen, while Amy was busy building her business and

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<v Speaker 1>planning dog training trips, Stephen was lurking on the darkest

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<v Speaker 1>corners of the Internet. His outward persona remained spotless, but

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<v Speaker 1>in private he was going beyond dating sites and exploring

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<v Speaker 1>the world most people will never see, the dark Web.

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<v Speaker 1>It was here, through the anonymous browser named tor, that

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen found what he believed with the was the perfect

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<v Speaker 1>solution to his problem. Divorce would, of course, be a scandal,

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<v Speaker 1>but murder, though that could be made to look like

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<v Speaker 1>a tragic accident. The website he stumbled upon was called

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<v Speaker 1>Bessa Mafia. It was marketing itself as a global network

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<v Speaker 1>of professional hit men, a kind of underground Airbnb. But

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<v Speaker 1>think instead of hiring for a place to stay, you're

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<v Speaker 1>hiring murder for hire instead.

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<v Speaker 2>You know this guy, he's just a complete piece of garbage. Hey, oh, definitely,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're just getting started here.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, how we are now this website Bess of Mafia.

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<v Speaker 1>Their promise was simple, if you pay in bitcoin, they

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<v Speaker 1>would get the job done, no questions asked. It was

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<v Speaker 1>the answer Stephen was looking for. However, Bessa Mafia wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>what it claimed to be. Unknown to Stephen at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>the entire operation of this Bessa Mafia murder for higher

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<v Speaker 1>sort of hitman online in the dark web thing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a scam. No one was getting killed. The

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<v Speaker 1>site was run by a man using the alias Eura,

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<v Speaker 1>and this guy had figured out a diabolically clever business model,

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<v Speaker 1>take money from would be killers, never carry out with

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<v Speaker 1>the hit, and bank on the fact that no one

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<v Speaker 1>would go to the police and complain about the money

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<v Speaker 1>they lost.

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<v Speaker 2>WHOA Okay, right, isn't that kind of jay? I guess?

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I mean, I'm not saying it's ethical, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's hilariously genius kind of.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. At first I thought you were going to say

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<v Speaker 2>it was the police, the police behind this, but okay, no,

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<v Speaker 2>definitely not the police.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just some guy who was just taking money

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<v Speaker 1>and not killing anyone. So Stephen of course didn't know

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<v Speaker 1>what this was, what the website was actually doing. He

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<v Speaker 1>thought it was a real hit for higher sort of situation.

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<v Speaker 1>So Stephen, using the alias dog Day God, he began

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<v Speaker 1>messaging Bessa Mafia in February of twenty sixteen. His first

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<v Speaker 1>questions were cautious, almost paranoid. He asked how to buy

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin without drawing suspicion, worried that a large cash withdrawal,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, might raise some red flags now. They replied

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<v Speaker 1>quickly with helpful suggestions. They even offered stories that Stephen

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<v Speaker 1>could tell if he had anyone question him about the transactions,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, say that he was buying gaming equipment or

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<v Speaker 1>investing in some children's online platform or something different. Excuses right, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So over the following weeks, Stephen provided disturbingly specific information

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<v Speaker 1>about his intended target, which of course was his wife Amy.

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<v Speaker 1>Online he told Bessa Mafia where she would be, what

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00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:49.200
<v Speaker 1>car she drove, and when she would be alone. He

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00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.600
<v Speaker 1>even sent them photos. One of his first plans involved

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<v Speaker 1>in out of town dog show, Amy was scheduled to

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<v Speaker 1>attend in Moline, Illinois in March of twenty sixteen. He

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<v Speaker 1>offered extra bitcoin as well the equivalent of one thousand

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<v Speaker 1>dollars if the hit could be staged to look like

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<v Speaker 1>an accident, like a car crash or maybe a robbery

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<v Speaker 1>gone wrong. And here's part of what he told them quote,

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<v Speaker 1>she should be staying at the Lakita Inn in Moline Airport.

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<v Speaker 1>I want her dead. That's thirteen bitcoins. If it can

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<v Speaker 1>look like an accident, then you can have the rest. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>for context, a single bitcoin was valued at approximately five

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<v Speaker 1>hundred to six hundred dollars at the time, so thirteen

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00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:36.319
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin was about six five hundred to seventy eight hundred.

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<v Speaker 2>So is that all he's paying correct for a hit?

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00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, this sort of shit just disturbs me to

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<v Speaker 2>no end.

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<v Speaker 1>Hmm.

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<v Speaker 2>That's someone who is your freaking husband is going to

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<v Speaker 2>go about doing something like this and at no point

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<v Speaker 2>backs out like are you freaking kidding me?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the thing is too like this is a scam,

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<v Speaker 1>we know that, right, already told you so their take

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<v Speaker 1>making the money and not actually delivering on the hit.

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<v Speaker 1>And when that first attempt didn't happen, like the act,

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<v Speaker 1>she came back from this trip, she wasn't killed or anything.

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00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.759
<v Speaker 1>Stephen was actually growing impatient. However, he didn't walk away

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<v Speaker 1>from the situation. Instead, he doubled down, which makes it

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<v Speaker 1>even worse. So you're sitting here saying like, oh, how

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<v Speaker 1>could your husband do that? He lost money, the hit

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<v Speaker 1>didn't happen, and he's not like backing up and taking

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00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:28.759
<v Speaker 1>a second look at this because this is his second chance, right, Yeah,

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00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:31.160
<v Speaker 1>he's doubling down instead and.

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<v Speaker 2>Still going about trusting these people.

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<v Speaker 1>Then exactly, yeah, Okay, So in subsequent messages, he considered

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<v Speaker 1>different methods, including using a sniper or staging a home invasion.

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<v Speaker 1>He kept updating them on Amy's Whereabouts Her Dog Show schedule,

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00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:48.680
<v Speaker 1>and even detailed knowledge of propane tanks and gas cans

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<v Speaker 1>around their house.

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00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay that he's probably just you know, scattering around.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, gosh. Now, At one point, quote unquote dog

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<v Speaker 1>Day God wrote this to Best and quote, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm at risk of being suspected if I ask

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<v Speaker 1>too many more questions. I'm at the point that I

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00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.079
<v Speaker 1>do not care how this is done. I believe if

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<v Speaker 1>I go about my regular routine, I won't be a suspect.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is supposed to be a religious god guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Hmm like wow, well yeah, just like devoted to his

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<v Speaker 2>family and the community and stuff, and this is what

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00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:24.759
<v Speaker 2>he's doing behind closed.

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<v Speaker 1>Doors, right, He's like, oh, I love my wife in public,

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<v Speaker 1>and then behind closed doors he obviously just wants or

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00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.559
<v Speaker 1>gone mm hm and honestly like even if it could

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<v Speaker 1>be arranged out of town, like he would be fine

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00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:38.759
<v Speaker 1>with that, But if it couldn't be and their home

357
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:40.440
<v Speaker 1>was going to work, just fine for him, because he's

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<v Speaker 1>clearly like, here's things you can use around our house.

359
00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:47.079
<v Speaker 2>This is literally got or a guy that people look

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<v Speaker 2>up to and want to probably be.

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00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he's doing all this shit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen made multiple bitcoin payments which would end up totaling

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<v Speaker 1>over thirteen thousand dollars to Best of Mafia, believing all

365
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<v Speaker 1>the while that a hit man would eventually show up

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<v Speaker 1>and take care of it.

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<v Speaker 2>What.

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<v Speaker 1>In reality, there was no hit man and they're just

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<v Speaker 1>draining him for whatever they can give, right mm hm.

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<v Speaker 1>By April of twenty sixteen, the elaborate charade with Bess

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<v Speaker 1>of Mafia started to come undone. The website operated by

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<v Speaker 1>that mysterious era had managed to fool dozens of people

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<v Speaker 1>across the world into thinking it was a legitimate murder

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<v Speaker 1>for higher service. What none of them knew was that

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<v Speaker 1>the site had a critical vulnerability, and someone with skills

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00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:33.200
<v Speaker 1>to exploit it found the way inside. Oh my goodness,

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00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:39.599
<v Speaker 1>that person with cybersecurity researcher Chris Monteiro, a UK based

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<v Speaker 1>system administrator and hobbyist dark web sleuth. At first, Chris

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<v Speaker 1>had stumbled upon Bess of Mafia through the public Reddit

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<v Speaker 1>threads and anonymous posts linking the site. What really peaked

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<v Speaker 1>his interest was how organized it seemed to be. Unlike

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<v Speaker 1>most dark Web scams, Bess of Mafia looked polished, a

383
00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:02.400
<v Speaker 1>little too polished. Even so, he dug deeper. Chris, along

384
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<v Speaker 1>with other anonymous hackers known only as the group quote

385
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<v Speaker 1>Judge Judy Love that name, by the way, quietly gained

386
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.799
<v Speaker 1>access to the site's back end. What they found was

387
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:19.559
<v Speaker 1>jaw dropping a trove of unencrypted data, thousands of private messages,

388
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:23.960
<v Speaker 1>order logs, bitcoin transactions, and even photos and personal information

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<v Speaker 1>of real hit targets.

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<v Speaker 2>Honestly, I love this because these people deserve that.

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<v Speaker 1>That they're getting found out like this.

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00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, because these friggin just piece of shit people

393
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:37.039
<v Speaker 2>deserve that.

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<v Speaker 1>Agreed. Now, these hackers decided to do what law enforcement

395
00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:45.279
<v Speaker 1>hadn't done yet, and they decided they were going to

396
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:47.680
<v Speaker 1>save some lives, or at least attempt to, because on

397
00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:51.519
<v Speaker 1>April twenty fifth, twenty sixteen, a massive data dump of

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<v Speaker 1>Bessa mafia US records in international communications was quietly posted

399
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<v Speaker 1>to an online archive site. The documents canained everything usernames,

400
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:05.319
<v Speaker 1>target photos, payment info, messages between quote unquote clients and

401
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:08.279
<v Speaker 1>the site operators. All of it was now out in

402
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:13.039
<v Speaker 1>the open for public viewing. Okay, so they didn't go

403
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:15.000
<v Speaker 1>right to law enforcement, but they put it into a

404
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.480
<v Speaker 1>public place where law enforcement could view it.

405
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:21.799
<v Speaker 2>So they didn't realize though, or weren't aware that this

406
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:25.160
<v Speaker 2>was a scam and that these people weren't technically actually

407
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:28.599
<v Speaker 2>in danger. I mean they probably were though still, because

408
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:31.680
<v Speaker 2>the people putting the hit on them could go and

409
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:33.680
<v Speaker 2>use try to use someone else, right, So.

410
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, definitely, and they could probably go through the messages

411
00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:39.279
<v Speaker 1>and understand that, Okay, these people like it's consistent that

412
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:42.079
<v Speaker 1>hits are not happening and messages are coming back. Yeah,

413
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:44.400
<v Speaker 1>regardless of it being a scam or not, these are

414
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:47.559
<v Speaker 1>real people trying to get real people killed. Yeah, So

415
00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:51.960
<v Speaker 1>that in itself is super important right now, One user

416
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:55.000
<v Speaker 1>among all of the information actually stood out in particular,

417
00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:58.000
<v Speaker 1>and that was dog Day God. The messages from dog

418
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.640
<v Speaker 1>Day God revealed an obsessive fixation on one woman named

419
00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:05.960
<v Speaker 1>Amy Allwine. The level of detail these messages were shocking.

420
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Whoever this person was. They not only knew Amy's daily

421
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.480
<v Speaker 1>schedule and travel plans, but also had access to her

422
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.799
<v Speaker 1>home and was familiar with family and business because the

423
00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:18.440
<v Speaker 1>intimate information delivered to Besse of Mafia was too detailed.

424
00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:22.240
<v Speaker 1>So by May of twenty sixteen, the FBI had reviewed

425
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:25.359
<v Speaker 1>the data dump and realized this wasn't just internet drama.

426
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:29.359
<v Speaker 1>It was a real threat to real people, and in

427
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:32.920
<v Speaker 1>the particular situation of dog Day God, it was, you know,

428
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:34.759
<v Speaker 1>a threat to someone who had no idea that there

429
00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:38.880
<v Speaker 1>were someone's digital target, right, and that person was, of

430
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:44.119
<v Speaker 1>course you know Amy. And on May thirty first, twenty sixteen, thankfully,

431
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:49.160
<v Speaker 1>FBI special agent Asha Silky and a local Cottage Growth

432
00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Police officer, Detective Terry Raymond, came knocking at the all

433
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:53.839
<v Speaker 1>Wine store.

434
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:57.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh poor Amy here, she's just like living her life,

435
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:01.440
<v Speaker 2>like doing all this shit, probably for her family, right thinking.

436
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:05.359
<v Speaker 2>You know, her family's tight knit, and she's about to

437
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:06.680
<v Speaker 2>just get the shock of.

438
00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:11.559
<v Speaker 1>A lifetime basically now. Unfortunately, though, Amy wasn't home, but

439
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.480
<v Speaker 1>her husband, Stephen was. They explained to him that Amy

440
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.160
<v Speaker 1>was not in any immediate danger, but emphasized that it

441
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:20.920
<v Speaker 1>was important and urgent that she come to the Cottage

442
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:24.640
<v Speaker 1>Grove Police Department to speak with them in person. They

443
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:26.559
<v Speaker 1>didn't go in full detail at the doorstep and what

444
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.119
<v Speaker 1>was going on, but they made it clear that matters

445
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.240
<v Speaker 1>were serious and sensitive.

446
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:33.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh that doesn't seem good.

447
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, Stephen was calm, He was collected and very helpful.

448
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:40.680
<v Speaker 1>In fact, Stephen told them that she'd be back soon

449
00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:42.319
<v Speaker 1>and agreed to have her meet with them at the

450
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:47.160
<v Speaker 1>police station later that day. Amy soon arrived at the

451
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.960
<v Speaker 1>police station and was shown something that would shake anyone

452
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:55.759
<v Speaker 1>to their core. Someone had spent months and thousands of

453
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.839
<v Speaker 1>dollars trying to have her killed. And she was now

454
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:02.440
<v Speaker 1>looking at the digital read crumbs on these papers that

455
00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:04.799
<v Speaker 1>were put in front of her, on all the proof

456
00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:05.039
<v Speaker 1>of it.

457
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, here, I thought that could have gone differently though,

458
00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:11.519
<v Speaker 2>because I thought Stephen that's his name, right, yes, would

459
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:13.880
<v Speaker 2>have been like freaking out and then tried to take

460
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:15.720
<v Speaker 2>this in his own hands or something. No.

461
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.319
<v Speaker 1>Fair enough, fair enough, No, he played it calm, He

462
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:21.440
<v Speaker 1>played it cool. Right now, The FBI told her that

463
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:24.119
<v Speaker 1>a user in the dark web had submitted multiple murder

464
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:30.359
<v Speaker 1>requests targeting her, providing her providing her full name, her address, schedule, photos,

465
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.000
<v Speaker 1>even her car making model. It was too specific to

466
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.599
<v Speaker 1>be random. Someone close to her was clearly trying to

467
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:41.759
<v Speaker 1>orchestrate this. Naturally, Amy was terrified. She told investigators that

468
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:44.440
<v Speaker 1>she didn't have enemies, she had no idea who would

469
00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:47.279
<v Speaker 1>want to harm her, and she was loved in her community,

470
00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:50.359
<v Speaker 1>adored by her friends and family, and had no known

471
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:53.880
<v Speaker 1>issues with clients or even competitors. But the part that

472
00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.559
<v Speaker 1>confused investigators most the person who had ordered the hit

473
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:02.680
<v Speaker 1>claimed Amy was quote stealing clients and had also quote

474
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:09.480
<v Speaker 1>slept with their husband, whoa okay. Amy denied this information outright.

475
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:12.079
<v Speaker 1>She had never had an affair. She was devoted to

476
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:15.359
<v Speaker 1>her marriage. It made no sense now. At the time,

477
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:18.119
<v Speaker 1>the FBI had no reason to suspect Stephen himself but

478
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.079
<v Speaker 1>was behind it. He came across as mild mannered, religious

479
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:25.359
<v Speaker 1>and supportive. He was a family man, a victim too

480
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:27.920
<v Speaker 1>technically in certain light if you looked at it. But

481
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:30.119
<v Speaker 1>something was off and they knew it, but they just

482
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:31.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't know what.

483
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, he would not seem like a person that

484
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:39.240
<v Speaker 2>would put a hit on their wife exactly now.

485
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:42.000
<v Speaker 1>The FBI told the all Wines to tighten their home security,

486
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.240
<v Speaker 1>and as a result of what was going on, it

487
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.279
<v Speaker 1>was clearly important that they do so. Motion detectors were installed,

488
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:52.160
<v Speaker 1>cameras went up, and garage codes were changed, and they

489
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.200
<v Speaker 1>added home security alarms and Amy began carrying a panic

490
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.759
<v Speaker 1>alarm button with her as well. No matter what was happening,

491
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:01.119
<v Speaker 1>Amy tried to put on a ray face and carry

492
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:04.400
<v Speaker 1>on with life, you know, going in and doing her

493
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:07.839
<v Speaker 1>work with dog training and attending church, taking care of

494
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:10.279
<v Speaker 1>her family. But the cracks in her calm were slowly

495
00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:11.119
<v Speaker 1>beginning to show.

496
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and meanwhile, she's sleeping next to a complete monster.

497
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:17.119
<v Speaker 1>This is not all I hey, but she doesn't know

498
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:17.920
<v Speaker 1>that is the thing.

499
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Ah.

500
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:21.920
<v Speaker 1>It had been over two months since the FBI had

501
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:24.680
<v Speaker 1>revealed the Dark Web plot to murder her, and though

502
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.880
<v Speaker 1>there were no attempts that she knew of, the idea

503
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:30.359
<v Speaker 1>that someone close to her wanted her dead was enough

504
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:32.319
<v Speaker 1>to consume her every day.

505
00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:35.400
<v Speaker 2>M hmm. I could only imagine I would just be

506
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:41.160
<v Speaker 2>There would be no like calm within you that all

507
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:44.559
<v Speaker 2>definitely you would be on edge console all the time.

508
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:50.240
<v Speaker 1>But then came another blow. On July thirty first, twenty sixteen,

509
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:55.119
<v Speaker 1>Amy received an anonymous email. The subject line read your

510
00:27:55.160 --> 00:28:00.000
<v Speaker 1>family is in danger. The sender identified themselves as quote Jane,

511
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:05.759
<v Speaker 1>and what followed was a deeply disturbing email. Ama was

512
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:09.880
<v Speaker 1>being told explicitly that if she didn't take her own life,

513
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.359
<v Speaker 1>her loved ones would be next. What the email is cruel,

514
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:20.319
<v Speaker 1>personal and vicious, saying things like quote are you so

515
00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:23.799
<v Speaker 1>selfish that you will put your family's life at risk? Quote?

516
00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:26.440
<v Speaker 1>I blame you for my life falling apart. I don't

517
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:32.839
<v Speaker 1>know how a fat explsive bleeped word like you got

518
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:36.119
<v Speaker 1>to my husband. Quote here's how you can save your

519
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:37.839
<v Speaker 1>family commit suicide?

520
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Is this actually from Stephen? This email? Because I feel

521
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:47.680
<v Speaker 2>like I will rage If that's the case, I.

522
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:51.079
<v Speaker 1>Will be very transparent on this. Yes, Stephen is behind

523
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:52.640
<v Speaker 1>it all. Definitely.

524
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:55.680
<v Speaker 2>He literally sends this kind of an email to his

525
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:59.200
<v Speaker 2>wife correct when she's oh my gosh, this guy just

526
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:04.519
<v Speaker 2>deserves oh suber. Yeah. Like, I'm not even gonna say

527
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:07.759
<v Speaker 2>what he deserves, because holy shit, I cannot even believe this.

528
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, The writer went on to describe her son's

529
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:14.880
<v Speaker 1>clothing from the week before, implying that he had eyes

530
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:18.279
<v Speaker 1>in the family. They detailed the location of their homes,

531
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:22.839
<v Speaker 1>gas meter, and their parents' address, her brother's residence. They

532
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.359
<v Speaker 1>even went on enlisted methods Amy could use to end

533
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.079
<v Speaker 1>her own life.

534
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:29.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness.

535
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. They warned that if she failed, she'd be labeled

536
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:36.480
<v Speaker 1>as mentally unstable, lose custody of her son, and destroy

537
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:37.240
<v Speaker 1>the family.

538
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:40.799
<v Speaker 2>You know who's mentally unstable, This fucking Stephen guy.

539
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:43.480
<v Speaker 1>I know. But like this is like, okay, kill yourself.

540
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:47.359
<v Speaker 1>If you try and you actually survive, you're gonna lose custody,

541
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.920
<v Speaker 1>you lose your family, So you better be successful when

542
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:51.759
<v Speaker 1>you try and kill yourself. As what they're trying to say.

543
00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:54.759
<v Speaker 2>You know what better happened is Amy better be okay

544
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:58.160
<v Speaker 2>at the end of this, or else I'm gonna lose

545
00:29:58.200 --> 00:29:58.680
<v Speaker 2>my mind.

546
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:02.640
<v Speaker 1>Fair enough, fair enough, Well, we'll get to it, don't worry.

547
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:06.039
<v Speaker 1>The threat in these emails were unmistakable. Kill yourself, or

548
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:08.920
<v Speaker 1>we'll do it for you, slowly, painfully, piece by piece,

549
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:11.799
<v Speaker 1>through the people that you love most, and Amy was

550
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.880
<v Speaker 1>of course horrified by this. She immediately forwarded the messages

551
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.559
<v Speaker 1>to the special Agent Asha Silky, who had remained in

552
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:23.400
<v Speaker 1>regular contact with her. He confirmed that the email was

553
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:26.759
<v Speaker 1>sent from a disposable account, which was nearly impossible to trace,

554
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:32.319
<v Speaker 1>but despite the disturbing content, he noted something important. This

555
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:36.200
<v Speaker 1>to him seemed likely like a de escalation instead of

556
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:40.759
<v Speaker 1>an escalation, because whoever was behind the original Dark Web

557
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:45.960
<v Speaker 1>hit had now shifted to psychological warfare. They weren't trying

558
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:48.960
<v Speaker 1>to hire someone to kill her anymore. Now they were

559
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:52.200
<v Speaker 1>trying to push Amy into taking matters into her own hands,

560
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.880
<v Speaker 1>which basically meant that she had the power over her

561
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.400
<v Speaker 1>own life at that point.

562
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Technically, right, okay, do you have to say, I'm I

563
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:04.720
<v Speaker 2>didn't expect it. I'm glad that she forded this email

564
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:07.920
<v Speaker 2>right away off to like, you know, authorities here.

565
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:10.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I mean, what else is she to do?

566
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know. I feel like, well, some people

567
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:17.039
<v Speaker 2>could have either just done the request, which would have

568
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:20.880
<v Speaker 2>been horrible, or just kept it themselves and like freaked out.

569
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.519
<v Speaker 2>And you know, so I'm glad that she went that route.

570
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:28.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I am glad too. Now, as terrifying as this was,

571
00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:30.599
<v Speaker 1>the FBI believed that the threat was less likely to

572
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:34.279
<v Speaker 1>materialize into actual physical harm. The idea was now mostly

573
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:38.440
<v Speaker 1>manipulation over murder. But still, like you say, regardless, good

574
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.559
<v Speaker 1>on her for going to the authorities with it. But

575
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:44.119
<v Speaker 1>no matter what the FBI agent said about it, hey

576
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.319
<v Speaker 1>being like a de escalation, it didn't make Amy feel

577
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:47.960
<v Speaker 1>any safer.

578
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I was literally just sitting here thinking that.

579
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:53.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I don't think that would have helped me, no,

580
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:54.960
<v Speaker 2>feel better about my life.

581
00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Her life, of course, dramatically changed. Simple errands like going

582
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:02.039
<v Speaker 1>to the grocery or filled her with dread. Cars parked

583
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:03.839
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the street sent her into spirals

584
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:06.559
<v Speaker 1>of anxiety. In fact, at one point she reported a

585
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:09.599
<v Speaker 1>suspicious blue van near her home, which of course turned

586
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:12.400
<v Speaker 1>out to be harmless. But that wasn't the point. Amy

587
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.000
<v Speaker 1>was now in a state of near constant panic.

588
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:16.680
<v Speaker 2>Just always on edge.

589
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:19.680
<v Speaker 1>Migrains that she once suffered from in her younger years

590
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:23.400
<v Speaker 1>returned with vengeance. Her memory became foggy. Her friends even

591
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:26.240
<v Speaker 1>later described how she started to lose track of conversations

592
00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:30.039
<v Speaker 1>or forget key details during her dog training sessions. The

593
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:34.599
<v Speaker 1>always joyful, energetic Amy was slowly retreating into herself.

594
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, she was probably never present, no really fully during

595
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:42.559
<v Speaker 2>those conversations or the dog training, because her mind was

596
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:43.640
<v Speaker 2>always somewhere else.

597
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:46.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, and not only is it. At any moment, could

598
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:50.160
<v Speaker 1>she be possibly attacked or someone try to kill her,

599
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.279
<v Speaker 1>She could be talking to the person who's trying to

600
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:53.799
<v Speaker 1>have her.

601
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Killed, Yeah, because she has no idea.

602
00:32:56.119 --> 00:32:58.680
<v Speaker 1>She's thinking of that too. Are you the person who

603
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.200
<v Speaker 1>hired this and is behind this? Or am I going

604
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:03.480
<v Speaker 1>to get killed here in this conversation just or just

605
00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:06.319
<v Speaker 1>going to the grocery store, like you have no idea?

606
00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:10.279
<v Speaker 1>On edge every moment of every waking day of your life.

607
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:12.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm sure this is gonna come out at

608
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.599
<v Speaker 2>some point, but like she absolutely had no idea that

609
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:16.519
<v Speaker 2>it was her husband.

610
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:18.880
<v Speaker 1>She had no idea, what the shit.

611
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:24.920
<v Speaker 2>I would suspect you instantly, literally instantly, because the details

612
00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:28.880
<v Speaker 2>that the person knew and stuff, it just makes sense

613
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:32.039
<v Speaker 2>that it would be her like significant other.

614
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree.

615
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I think both of us would have been like, you bitch,

616
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:38.519
<v Speaker 2>it's you, like we would just know, I.

617
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Think, well honestly, yeah yeah, I mean, look what we

618
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:43.440
<v Speaker 1>do for a living, right.

619
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:45.640
<v Speaker 2>We have no trust or faith in anyone?

620
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Apparently definitely not now. She did her best to keep

621
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:52.359
<v Speaker 1>up appearances. She told very few people about the threats,

622
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:55.559
<v Speaker 1>not even her parents. In fact, only her sister and

623
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.319
<v Speaker 1>her best friend Sharon knew the full extent to what

624
00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:01.359
<v Speaker 1>was happening. Even then, she downplayed it as best as

625
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:04.720
<v Speaker 1>she could. Amy didn't want to worry anyone else, but

626
00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:08.840
<v Speaker 1>she was quietly unraveling. In an attempt to feel more secure,

627
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:12.599
<v Speaker 1>Amy enrolled in the Cottage Grove Citizens Police Academy, an

628
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.719
<v Speaker 1>eight week community program that allowed citizens to learn about

629
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.519
<v Speaker 1>police work, and she took it quite seriously.

630
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Good for her.

631
00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:23.800
<v Speaker 1>In this she fingerprinted coke cans and practiced firearm handling,

632
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.679
<v Speaker 1>and even did a ride right along with a canine officer.

633
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.159
<v Speaker 1>It helped a little, but it wasn't enough to erase

634
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:33.599
<v Speaker 1>the feeling that someone, someone she knew, still wanted her dead.

635
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:37.920
<v Speaker 1>Her relationship with the FBI had also grown stronger. Amy

636
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:41.800
<v Speaker 1>frequently emailed or called Special Agent Silky to vent and

637
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:45.920
<v Speaker 1>share concerns or seek advice. She appreciated having someone in

638
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:48.960
<v Speaker 1>her corner, even if the investigation wasn't really moving forward.

639
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.360
<v Speaker 1>But in the end, Amy was still alone with that

640
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:57.000
<v Speaker 1>fear the entire time, and unknown to her, the person

641
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:59.760
<v Speaker 1>responsible for it was still at her side, living under

642
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:03.800
<v Speaker 1>the same roof, and still planning it. Because for Stephen

643
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:05.960
<v Speaker 1>this wasn't over.

644
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:11.920
<v Speaker 2>He still is just not letting this go. Hey no, oh, man,

645
00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I am that's shocking.

646
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, his original plan to outsource his wife's murder had failed,

647
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Speaker 1>and thanks to the fact that Bessemafia was nothing more

648
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.480
<v Speaker 1>than the scam is the only reason why that did fail.

649
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:26.119
<v Speaker 1>But Stephen wasn't about to give up, not with his

650
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:30.400
<v Speaker 1>image and his secrets on the line. Right. It was Sunday,

651
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.440
<v Speaker 1>November thirteenth, twenty sixteen, and to anyone looking in from

652
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:37.039
<v Speaker 1>the outside, the All Wine House in Cottage Grove, Minnesota,

653
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:40.480
<v Speaker 1>seemed peaceful and even routine. Amy had spent the day

654
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:42.719
<v Speaker 1>at home with her husband, Stephen and their nine year

655
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:45.440
<v Speaker 1>old son Joe. They'd gone to church the day before,

656
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:49.079
<v Speaker 1>same as they always did. Saturday was the Sabbath in

657
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.480
<v Speaker 1>line with their beliefs through the Church of God United

658
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:54.719
<v Speaker 1>Church of God. Excuse me. Amy had helped prepare lunch

659
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:58.440
<v Speaker 1>and she was being a devoted cook that she always was.

660
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:01.320
<v Speaker 1>She set some lefts do her pumpkin to simmer, and

661
00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:04.360
<v Speaker 1>the slow cooker for dinner. But she wasn't feeling that great.

662
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.000
<v Speaker 1>She's a little dizzy and tired, so she decided to

663
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:12.440
<v Speaker 1>go lay down. Stephen, meanwhile had plans. He called Amy's father,

664
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Charles Zeuits, to come help install a dog door in

665
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.760
<v Speaker 1>their garage. When Charles arrived at around one pm, he

666
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:22.079
<v Speaker 1>was told by Stephen that Amy wasn't feeling well and

667
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:25.119
<v Speaker 1>had gone to lie in the bed. He never saw

668
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:28.119
<v Speaker 1>or spoke to his daughter that day. After installing the door,

669
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Charles left, and shortly after Stephen called him once again.

670
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:33.639
<v Speaker 1>This time he asked Charles to come back and pick

671
00:36:33.719 --> 00:36:36.960
<v Speaker 1>up their son, Joe. Amy, he said, was feeling worse

672
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:39.079
<v Speaker 1>and he wanted to take her to the hospital without

673
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:42.800
<v Speaker 1>worrying their son. When he pulled up Joe was waiting

674
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:47.960
<v Speaker 1>outside when his grandfather was coming by. Charles took him

675
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:51.599
<v Speaker 1>and Stephen went back inside the house. From this point on,

676
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Stephen's version of the events is all we have to

677
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:57.119
<v Speaker 1>go on, but police later found serious discrepancies. Is what

678
00:36:57.159 --> 00:36:59.360
<v Speaker 1>he claimed on what happened.

679
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:02.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, no, no, no, I'm terrified here.

680
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:06.440
<v Speaker 1>According to Stephen, Amy was still groggy when he went

681
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.599
<v Speaker 1>to check on her. He claimed she insisted she didn't

682
00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:11.519
<v Speaker 1>need to go to the hospital and that she just

683
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:15.079
<v Speaker 1>needed to rest. At around four thirty pm, people began

684
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:17.719
<v Speaker 1>arriving at the property for one of Amy's scheduled dog

685
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:21.079
<v Speaker 1>training classes in the arena out back. Amy, of course,

686
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:24.000
<v Speaker 1>was in no condition to teach, so another instructor stepped

687
00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:27.559
<v Speaker 1>in to lead the session. A little while later, around

688
00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.239
<v Speaker 1>five pm, Stephen said he went into the bedroom and

689
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:32.679
<v Speaker 1>saw Amy on her knees by the side of the bed.

690
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:35.519
<v Speaker 1>He assumed she was praying, so he didn't want to

691
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:40.000
<v Speaker 1>bother her. Instead, he left the house. He went to

692
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:42.039
<v Speaker 1>pick up Joe from his in laws, and on the

693
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:45.320
<v Speaker 1>way back they stopped at a restaurant called Culvers, was

694
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:48.079
<v Speaker 1>a tradition for them together. They had grilled cheese, and

695
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:51.719
<v Speaker 1>chicken tenders. Stephen made sure he had the receipts.

696
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:54.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh, but also that meal sounds amazing.

697
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:59.519
<v Speaker 1>Agreed. At approximately seven pm, Stephen and Joe arrived back home.

698
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:02.800
<v Speaker 1>Joe ran ahead into the house, while Steven stayed behind

699
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:06.519
<v Speaker 1>to unpack the car. Moments later, Joe returned and asked

700
00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:09.800
<v Speaker 1>a chilling question, why is mommy lying on the floor?

701
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, Okay, so this literal piece of shit

702
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:21.760
<v Speaker 2>let his son go find the mom Yeah, oh my gosh,

703
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.239
<v Speaker 2>I can't. I can't even. I just okay, I'm like

704
00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:27.079
<v Speaker 2>about to just stroll on the towel here, because that

705
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:29.920
<v Speaker 2>is some serious bullshit right there.

706
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:35.719
<v Speaker 1>I know, trust me, I know, okay. Stephen then went

707
00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:39.679
<v Speaker 1>to check there in the master bedroom, Amy was lying

708
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:42.760
<v Speaker 1>on her back next to the bed. There was a

709
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.400
<v Speaker 1>pool of blood around her head. A nine millimeter handgun

710
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:48.760
<v Speaker 1>lay next to her left elbow, and a single shell

711
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:53.119
<v Speaker 1>casing was nearby. Stephen called nine one one and said,

712
00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:56.719
<v Speaker 1>I think my wife shot herself. There's blood all over.

713
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:04.159
<v Speaker 1>His voice was flat, calm, unnaturally so, according to later analysis,

714
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:07.920
<v Speaker 1>he didn't say Amy's name, he didn't ask for help,

715
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:10.920
<v Speaker 1>he didn't check if she was even breathing until prompted

716
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:15.519
<v Speaker 1>by the dispatcher. Police and emergency responders arrived within minutes.

717
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Steven and Joe were waiting for them in the garage,

718
00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:20.920
<v Speaker 1>and his officers made their way inside. What they found

719
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:23.960
<v Speaker 1>wasn't just tragic, it was suspicious.

720
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. I okay. So I envisioned that the

721
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:31.400
<v Speaker 2>son would just go in the room and see, like

722
00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:35.960
<v Speaker 2>the mom dead. But I but there was also like

723
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:39.760
<v Speaker 2>a terrible scene that he was going into correct, gruesome,

724
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness. I am just irate right now. I

725
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:46.400
<v Speaker 2>cannot believe that that guy is a father.

726
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:47.239
<v Speaker 1>I know.

727
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Holy heck.

728
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:52.840
<v Speaker 1>Now for context, I was going to do a two

729
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:55.519
<v Speaker 1>parter and leave it right here. But do you want

730
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:58.880
<v Speaker 1>to continue for two parts and just make it one?

731
00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:04.239
<v Speaker 2>Sure? I don't know, but I deserve to just.

732
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:10.119
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I agree, don't get me wrong, but yeah, I

733
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:12.760
<v Speaker 1>was thinking of separating into two. We're only doing one,

734
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:14.559
<v Speaker 1>but that's where I was going to separate.

735
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh ye. People would have been pissed at you, for sure.

736
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:21.039
<v Speaker 1>Larissa would have like scalded me on social media on

737
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:26.239
<v Speaker 1>so Amy was of course laying on the floor. She

738
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 1>was deceased, her body neatly positioned beside the bed. She

739
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:31.920
<v Speaker 1>was still wearing her clothes from earlier that day, but

740
00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:34.480
<v Speaker 1>her pants were slightly unbuttoned and her red sweater had

741
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:37.079
<v Speaker 1>been pushed up just enough to expose her stomach a bit.

742
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:40.239
<v Speaker 1>For a scene that was supposed to be a suicide,

743
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:46.000
<v Speaker 1>something felt wrong. Sergeant Gwen Martin, one of the responding officers,

744
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:49.719
<v Speaker 1>had known Amy. She'd been her instructor at the Citizen's

745
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Police Academy, and seeing her lifeless body on the floor

746
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:56.000
<v Speaker 1>overwhelmed her, and she burst into tears and had to

747
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:59.960
<v Speaker 1>step outside to regain her composure. While on the squad car,

748
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.039
<v Speaker 1>she pulled up the household's call history. That's when she

749
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:06.960
<v Speaker 1>saw the earlier FBI visits and the death threats from

750
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:11.280
<v Speaker 1>the dark web. She called Detective Sergeant Randy McCallister, a

751
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:15.800
<v Speaker 1>lead on major investigations. He was confused. They usually don't

752
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:18.440
<v Speaker 1>get called in for suicides, but when Gwen handed the

753
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:22.800
<v Speaker 1>phone to her partner and he heard the name Amy Alwine, Yeah,

754
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:28.360
<v Speaker 1>everything changed. McAllister immediately got dressed and headed to the scene.

755
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:31.800
<v Speaker 1>He was already familiar with Amy's case. It had been

756
00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:34.199
<v Speaker 1>months since the FBI warned her and Stephen about the

757
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:37.400
<v Speaker 1>discovery of the dark Web plot. And as McCallister walked

758
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:40.519
<v Speaker 1>into the home, something caught his attention right away. The

759
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:45.119
<v Speaker 1>smell of pumpkins still cooking in the crock pot. Not

760
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:50.119
<v Speaker 1>something you generally expect from someone who's planning to take.

761
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Their life, right, Yes, no, shit, I didn't even think

762
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:55.239
<v Speaker 2>of that.

763
00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:00.239
<v Speaker 1>And then he saw the scene and he knew in

764
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:02.679
<v Speaker 1>his gut that Amy hadn't died by her own hand.

765
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:06.079
<v Speaker 1>Amy was found lying flat on her back in the

766
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:08.519
<v Speaker 1>bedroom with a pool of blood under her head and

767
00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:11.880
<v Speaker 1>a nine millimeter handgun resting near her left elbow, but

768
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:15.960
<v Speaker 1>the details didn't add up. Amy was right handed, yet

769
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:18.480
<v Speaker 1>the gun was on her left side. The bullet had

770
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:21.400
<v Speaker 1>entered through her right ear, which made it almost impossible

771
00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:26.159
<v Speaker 1>for her to have shot herself in that position. More importantly,

772
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:31.039
<v Speaker 1>testing showed there was no gunshot residue on Amy's hands.

773
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:34.239
<v Speaker 2>This Stephen guy is such an idiot.

774
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:38.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so if she had tried to pull the trigger,

775
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:42.320
<v Speaker 1>there would have been at least a trace of evidence

776
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:46.159
<v Speaker 1>left on her hands from gun residue. However, there was none.

777
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:50.880
<v Speaker 1>Then came some luminol tests with the investigation investigators sprayed

778
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:54.440
<v Speaker 1>the floor near the bedroom and found unmistakable evidence that

779
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:58.199
<v Speaker 1>someone had tried to clean up a significant amount of blood.

780
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:01.800
<v Speaker 1>In fact, there were even blood footprints leading from the

781
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:06.119
<v Speaker 1>bedroom to the hallway, the bathroom, and the laundry room.

782
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:11.079
<v Speaker 2>See she had been okay, wow, this is just too much.

783
00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:14.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now these tracks matched with socked feet.

784
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:20.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, and the same size that Stephen is because

785
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:21.440
<v Speaker 2>he's a piece of shit.

786
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:26.519
<v Speaker 1>Surprise, surprise. We'll get to it though, don't worry. So

787
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:29.199
<v Speaker 1>these weren't just major stains of blood either. The hallway

788
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:33.320
<v Speaker 1>floor had a glossy film on it, a clear indication

789
00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:36.480
<v Speaker 1>that had been wiped down vigorously, in stark contrast with

790
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:38.639
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the house, which was lived in and

791
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:41.360
<v Speaker 1>messy with dog hair and every day clutter don't get

792
00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:43.480
<v Speaker 1>me wrong, not filthy, just you know, every day living,

793
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.199
<v Speaker 1>rather than freshly polished clean floors.

794
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Right. Yeah.

795
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:51.519
<v Speaker 1>Amy's body had also clearly been moved. While she was

796
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:53.360
<v Speaker 1>found lying in her back, blood from her nose and

797
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:56.400
<v Speaker 1>mouth had run down the side of her face, suggesting

798
00:43:56.440 --> 00:43:58.840
<v Speaker 1>at some point she had been on her side and

799
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:03.400
<v Speaker 1>then repositioned. Investigators. They also noticed that her pants were

800
00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:05.920
<v Speaker 1>un buttoned and her shirt slightly pulled up details that

801
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.039
<v Speaker 1>didn't appear consistent with a struggle, but almost seemed like

802
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:12.000
<v Speaker 1>there were an intentional choice, as if someone was trying

803
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:14.639
<v Speaker 1>to add a little bit of an emotional chaos to

804
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:20.000
<v Speaker 1>the scene, something that might support the idea of suicide.

805
00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that makes no sense, but okay.

806
00:44:23.559 --> 00:44:26.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't really understand it either, But like maybe it's

807
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:30.639
<v Speaker 1>like she's sitting here, like hunched over or slowly slugging

808
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:33.559
<v Speaker 1>herself off the bed in distress, something like that, like

809
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:35.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, just adding a little bit of like touches

810
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:38.280
<v Speaker 1>to make it a little more like, I don't know,

811
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:41.039
<v Speaker 1>emotional turmoil going on in her and she's not really

812
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:41.880
<v Speaker 1>caring for herself.

813
00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I guess maybe I see, I see, Okay.

814
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:47.719
<v Speaker 1>But then there was the question of surveillance. After the

815
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:50.159
<v Speaker 1>dark Web threats earlier that year, the all Wines had

816
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:53.920
<v Speaker 1>installed motion activated cameras around the home, but there were

817
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:57.880
<v Speaker 1>no cameras covering the back patio, the one place with

818
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:01.559
<v Speaker 1>constant dog activity that they chose not to monitor. If

819
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:04.159
<v Speaker 1>someone were to come and go from that door, it

820
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:08.320
<v Speaker 1>would not have been recorded, and of course there were

821
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:12.440
<v Speaker 1>no recordings of anyone else, so they assumed that's the door. Right. Yeah,

822
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:15.960
<v Speaker 1>the scene didn't just look suspicious, it looked stage. The blood,

823
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:19.280
<v Speaker 1>the weapon placement, the movements, the cleanliness, and one specific

824
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:21.320
<v Speaker 1>part of the home. It all pointed to someone trying

825
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.199
<v Speaker 1>to cover their tracks. And as forensic investigation continued, a

826
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:29.880
<v Speaker 1>major breakthrough came from toxicology reports. The results showed something

827
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:35.440
<v Speaker 1>deeply unsettling. Amy Allwine had an incredibly high amount of

828
00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:40.079
<v Speaker 1>scopolamine in her system. Hopefully I pronounced that right, And

829
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:45.039
<v Speaker 1>she had about forty times the standard therapeutic dose. Now.

830
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Scopolamine is a drug usually prescribed in very small amounts

831
00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:52.039
<v Speaker 1>to treat motion sickness or nausea following surgery, but in

832
00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:56.199
<v Speaker 1>larger doses it has a different reputation entirely. It's sometimes

833
00:45:56.239 --> 00:46:01.440
<v Speaker 1>called devil's breath because of its extreme side effects, which

834
00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:06.599
<v Speaker 1>our disorientation, hallucination, blurred vision, drowsiness, and even memory loss.

835
00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:10.920
<v Speaker 1>It can render someone so mentally impaired that they can't

836
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:14.599
<v Speaker 1>think clearly or fight back. It makes a person basically

837
00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:18.119
<v Speaker 1>completely vulnerable and incredibly easy to control.

838
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:20.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay.

839
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Amy had never been prescribed scopolamine. There was no medical

840
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:26.960
<v Speaker 1>reason for it to be in her system, and certainly

841
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:31.440
<v Speaker 1>not at that level. This clearly was not accidental. Someone

842
00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:34.760
<v Speaker 1>had given it to her. The only question now was

843
00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:38.760
<v Speaker 1>who and when. Now the timeline starts to come together

844
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:42.960
<v Speaker 1>through digital breadcrumbs, investigators looked at Amy's phone and saw

845
00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:46.519
<v Speaker 1>that shortly after lunch November thirteenth, the day that she died,

846
00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:49.400
<v Speaker 1>she had tried to look up why she felt so awful.

847
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:53.639
<v Speaker 1>At one forty eight pm, she visited a Wikipedia site

848
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:57.559
<v Speaker 1>about vertigo. A minute later, she attempted to type into bing,

849
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.960
<v Speaker 1>but the text came out garbled. She typed quote du

850
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:08.119
<v Speaker 1>U space y end quote, and then also quote e

851
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:15.360
<v Speaker 1>space y E space e end quote, and later quote

852
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:22.960
<v Speaker 1>diy space vw space hh end quote, all in caplocks.

853
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:26.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh my heart just goes out to her so much

854
00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:27.159
<v Speaker 2>right now.

855
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, these weren't meaningful searches. They were fragmented, confused, and

856
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:33.800
<v Speaker 1>though she was she was trying to like figure something out,

857
00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:38.039
<v Speaker 1>but she could not think straight. Like I've been. I

858
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:39.800
<v Speaker 1>don't want to say I know what she was going through,

859
00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:43.559
<v Speaker 1>but just for context, I've been so drunk before where

860
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:45.480
<v Speaker 1>I could barely function and I'm like trying to text

861
00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:47.840
<v Speaker 1>you like stag party or something. Right, It's been a

862
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:50.920
<v Speaker 1>couple times in my life, not gonna lie, not proud

863
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:52.719
<v Speaker 1>of those moments. But I've tried to like text you

864
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:54.599
<v Speaker 1>or whatever, call you to come pick me up, and

865
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:58.000
<v Speaker 1>it that's I can't think straight, And that's what it's like.

866
00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:00.800
<v Speaker 1>And she was even beyond that. And I can't imagine

867
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:02.199
<v Speaker 1>what she was feeling in those moments.

868
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:07.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, she's trying to help herself and she just

869
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:10.440
<v Speaker 2>she can't like why, like to at first google why

870
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.320
<v Speaker 2>am I not feeling good or whatever? Right, and trying

871
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:17.639
<v Speaker 2>to figure out a way to be better or get better. Yeah,

872
00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:19.840
<v Speaker 2>and then she's just spiraling downwards.

873
00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's just trying to understand what's happening to her.

874
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, what's happening to you is that your

875
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:30.760
<v Speaker 2>husband sucks big time and he is just the worst

876
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:32.880
<v Speaker 2>human being I feel like I've ever encountered.

877
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:35.320
<v Speaker 1>I agreed. Now, according to him, she'd just gone to

878
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:37.360
<v Speaker 1>lie down in the bedroom after lunch. But based on

879
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:40.800
<v Speaker 1>everything investigators were seeing, she had been poisoned with a

880
00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:44.599
<v Speaker 1>powerful drug and then she was at her most disoriented

881
00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:47.199
<v Speaker 1>point and vulnerable that's when she was shot.

882
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:51.000
<v Speaker 2>And I bet you she didn't even know, probably not

883
00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:53.760
<v Speaker 2>like it wouldn't have. She was so drugged up that

884
00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:56.079
<v Speaker 2>she it wouldn't have all clicked even for her that

885
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:58.119
<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh, it was him this whole time.

886
00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:02.159
<v Speaker 1>No, she probably wouldn't have known the presence of the

887
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:05.079
<v Speaker 1>skulp mean rewrote the entire story. This wasn't a woman

888
00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:07.880
<v Speaker 1>overwhelmed by stress or fear taking her own life in desperation.

889
00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:10.719
<v Speaker 1>It was clearly made to seem like it was, but

890
00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:15.079
<v Speaker 1>this was a planned, methodical poisoning to sign, to design sorry,

891
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:18.159
<v Speaker 1>to incapacitate her, the kind of planning that pointed to

892
00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:22.000
<v Speaker 1>someone very close, someone who knew exactly what she was doing,

893
00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:25.719
<v Speaker 1>And all signs, every single last one of them, kept

894
00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:31.840
<v Speaker 1>circling back to Stephen Allwine. To begin with, he was

895
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:34.599
<v Speaker 1>the last person to see Amy alive. He'd also told

896
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:36.480
<v Speaker 1>police that he was working from home in the basement

897
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:39.280
<v Speaker 1>office on the day that she died, But when investigators

898
00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:43.320
<v Speaker 1>contacted both of employers, both Optimon and United Health Group,

899
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:46.239
<v Speaker 1>they confirmed that Stephen hadn't logged into their systems at

900
00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:49.119
<v Speaker 1>all that afternoon. So if he wasn't working, then what

901
00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:52.800
<v Speaker 1>exactly was he doing? Then came the analysis from the

902
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.599
<v Speaker 1>family home surveillance system. The cameras which were set up

903
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:58.079
<v Speaker 1>around the property showed no signs of anyone entering or

904
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:00.519
<v Speaker 1>leaving the house in the time of the timeframe when

905
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:03.320
<v Speaker 1>Amy was believed to have died. There's no mass intruder,

906
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:07.320
<v Speaker 1>no suspicious vehicle, nothing. Whoever killed Amy was clearly already

907
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:11.000
<v Speaker 1>inside the house. Stephen said that around five pm he

908
00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:12.880
<v Speaker 1>went to check on Amy and saw her kneeling at

909
00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:15.320
<v Speaker 1>the side of the bed, assuming she was praying. A

910
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:17.000
<v Speaker 1>short time later, he left to pick up his son

911
00:50:17.079 --> 00:50:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Joe from Amy's parents' house, stopped for gas and grabbed

912
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:24.679
<v Speaker 1>dinner at Culver's, their usual little Sunday tradition, and of

913
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:28.880
<v Speaker 1>course kept the receipts very carefully, almost too carefully.

914
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Imagine going out for dinner with your son just and

915
00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:37.239
<v Speaker 2>knowing what is about to happen, like when you get home.

916
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:39.719
<v Speaker 2>I know, Oh my goodness, he is such a monster.

917
00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:43.760
<v Speaker 1>He then returned home at seven pm. Let Joe run

918
00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:50.239
<v Speaker 1>ahead into the house and discover, Yeah, the scene.

919
00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Discover his mummy. Yeah, the way that she was like that.

920
00:50:55.119 --> 00:50:58.840
<v Speaker 1>That alone horrified everyone. That Joe was the one sent

921
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:01.679
<v Speaker 1>in to discover that. That Stephen let his young son

922
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:09.320
<v Speaker 1>purposefully see this traumatic scene is horrifying enough, and everyone

923
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:12.360
<v Speaker 1>was baffled to think that you have investigators that are

924
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:14.760
<v Speaker 1>coming to this realization that he did that on purpose.

925
00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's uncomprehendible. Really.

926
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. From a distance, it seemed like Stephen had timed

927
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:23.880
<v Speaker 1>everything almost perfectly, a series of steps designed to create

928
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:27.119
<v Speaker 1>an alibi, maintain normalcy. But there were too many things

929
00:51:27.159 --> 00:51:30.280
<v Speaker 1>that just didn't add up. Lumina. All testing in the

930
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:33.400
<v Speaker 1>house revealed a story the naked eye couldn't see because,

931
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:36.519
<v Speaker 1>as I mentioned, in the hallway outside the bedroom, there's

932
00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.079
<v Speaker 1>large amounts of blood that was discovered. It had been

933
00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:42.360
<v Speaker 1>cleaned up, not just white, but aggressively scrubbed. Someone had

934
00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:46.079
<v Speaker 1>tracked bloody footprints in the hallway, bathroom, laundry room. Investigators

935
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:49.320
<v Speaker 1>could even follow a path. In fact, they realized Amy

936
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:51.639
<v Speaker 1>hadn't even died in bed, She had died in the

937
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:54.559
<v Speaker 1>hallway and her body had been moved. The scene was

938
00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:58.480
<v Speaker 1>clearly staged. And then there was more inconsistency, one more

939
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:02.039
<v Speaker 1>specific one. Stephen had claimed not to know anything about

940
00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:05.239
<v Speaker 1>the Dark Web until FBI showed up earlier that year

941
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:07.159
<v Speaker 1>and told him that, hey, there's a hit out right

942
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:10.599
<v Speaker 1>mm hm. But Detective discovered apps on his phone designed

943
00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:15.519
<v Speaker 1>specifically for accessing it to be specific, Orbot and or Fox,

944
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:20.679
<v Speaker 1>which allowed users to get onto the browser tour needed

945
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:22.440
<v Speaker 1>to view these hidden sits in the wet dark web.

946
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:25.719
<v Speaker 1>Not something you just accidentally download, right.

947
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:29.039
<v Speaker 2>No, yeah, I would. I have no idea anything about

948
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:30.480
<v Speaker 2>the dark web, to be honest, So.

949
00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:32.400
<v Speaker 1>I know what it is and I don't want to

950
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:33.559
<v Speaker 1>fuck with it, That's all I know.

951
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like, I didn't even know you needed specific app,

952
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:38.880
<v Speaker 2>so he is clearly well versed.

953
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:43.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The timeline started to take shape in February of

954
00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:45.920
<v Speaker 1>that year, right when dog Day God had started planning

955
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Amy's murder through Bessa Mafia, Stephen's phone had pinged these

956
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:53.800
<v Speaker 1>same bitcoin exchange sites that the user had referenced in

957
00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:57.719
<v Speaker 1>his messages. He looked up how to convert bitcoin, how

958
00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:01.400
<v Speaker 1>to use tail os, and even how to install privacy

959
00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:05.440
<v Speaker 1>focused operating systems that could mask his activity, all of

960
00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:08.239
<v Speaker 1>these searches happening within minutes of the same topics being

961
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:13.719
<v Speaker 1>discussed in Bessa Mafia's messages. Then the smoking gun, the

962
00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:17.920
<v Speaker 1>big break that finally brought everything together. It didn't come

963
00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:21.280
<v Speaker 1>from a dramatic search or a late night confession. It

964
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:24.320
<v Speaker 1>came from something so mundane it almost felt like a

965
00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:31.639
<v Speaker 1>gift to investigators, an automatic iPhone backup. Back in August

966
00:53:31.719 --> 00:53:34.639
<v Speaker 1>of twenty sixteen, just a few months before Amy's murder,

967
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Stephen had backed up his iPhone to his iTunes account.

968
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:41.079
<v Speaker 1>What he didn't realize at the time was that this

969
00:53:41.239 --> 00:53:47.239
<v Speaker 1>backup preserved even the content that was since deleted, including

970
00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:50.400
<v Speaker 1>a single note that investigators would later describe as the

971
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:55.000
<v Speaker 1>final undeniable link to the murder of his wife. That

972
00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:58.079
<v Speaker 1>note contained a string of thirty four letters in numbers

973
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:03.079
<v Speaker 1>meaningless to most people, but instantly recognizable to anyone familiar

974
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:09.559
<v Speaker 1>with cryptocurrency. It was a Bitcoin wallet address, and just

975
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:13.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty three seconds after that note was created, the exact

976
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:17.360
<v Speaker 1>same address was sent in a message from dog Day

977
00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:22.079
<v Speaker 1>God to Bess Mafia to confirm payment. They had a

978
00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:29.360
<v Speaker 1>direct link. His wallet address linked to the hit payment address.

979
00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:33.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh and I bet everyone was just shocked as shit.

980
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Hey, yeah, that was the moment it all connected. The

981
00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:40.039
<v Speaker 1>man who had spent months trying to hire a hit

982
00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:42.599
<v Speaker 1>man to kill his wife using the most secretive corners

983
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:46.480
<v Speaker 1>of the Internet was in fact her husband, Stephen Alwine

984
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:49.400
<v Speaker 1>and the digital paper trail that he thought he had

985
00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:52.599
<v Speaker 1>buried had been sitting quietly in the cloud the whole time,

986
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:54.159
<v Speaker 1>just waiting to be found.

987
00:54:54.519 --> 00:54:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this guy really was not near as smart as

988
00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:57.880
<v Speaker 2>he seemed to think he was.

989
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:01.119
<v Speaker 1>No, he thought he was pretty, but he was Yeah,

990
00:55:01.159 --> 00:55:04.360
<v Speaker 1>not at all. So Steven had also conveniently made searches

991
00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:05.960
<v Speaker 1>for Amy's life insurance policy.

992
00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, this it just keeps getting.

993
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Worse, it does. It was a total payout of seven

994
00:55:12.039 --> 00:55:15.599
<v Speaker 1>hundred thousand dollars. He was, of course the sole beneficiary,

995
00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:17.880
<v Speaker 1>and it wasn't hard to figure out the motive from there.

996
00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:19.360
<v Speaker 2>WHOA.

997
00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:22.840
<v Speaker 1>So, as it turns out, Stephen fabricated a lie about

998
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:27.519
<v Speaker 1>being scammed by someone named Mark over the bitcoin purchases

999
00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:31.519
<v Speaker 1>on Bes of Mafia. So Stephen had actually reported this

1000
00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:34.239
<v Speaker 1>to the Cottage Grove police in March of twenty sixteen,

1001
00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:40.400
<v Speaker 1>fabricating a lie about the missing money, Okay, trying to

1002
00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:43.199
<v Speaker 1>cover his trail his back some month Yeah right, So

1003
00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:45.679
<v Speaker 1>he reported that loss right around the time that dog

1004
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:48.920
<v Speaker 1>Day was actually transferring bitcoin to Best of Mafia, and

1005
00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:52.079
<v Speaker 1>police couldn't find any emails with the supposed Mark. There

1006
00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:55.159
<v Speaker 1>was no trace of this transaction and when they checked

1007
00:55:55.159 --> 00:55:58.440
<v Speaker 1>the email address that Mark had supposedly used. It led

1008
00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:01.320
<v Speaker 1>right back to a disposable email count that Stephen himself

1009
00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:07.719
<v Speaker 1>had accessed. So still, it didn't stop there. Investigators called

1010
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Stephen's browser history from his laptop on February sixteenth, just

1011
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:14.199
<v Speaker 1>after one of the darkest messages from dog Day God

1012
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:16.679
<v Speaker 1>had been sent, the one where he finalized a plan

1013
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:19.920
<v Speaker 1>for Amy's murder to look like a car accident. Stephen

1014
00:56:19.960 --> 00:56:22.280
<v Speaker 1>has used his computer to search for the very dog

1015
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:25.320
<v Speaker 1>training event in Moloine, Illinois that was listed in the

1016
00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:28.119
<v Speaker 1>hit request. In fact, he even used Google Maps to

1017
00:56:28.159 --> 00:56:29.480
<v Speaker 1>calculate the drive time.

1018
00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh Man.

1019
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:34.960
<v Speaker 1>The evidence was so strong it made police go back

1020
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:38.079
<v Speaker 1>to what they had already seen and to see if

1021
00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Steven's name or actions could fit the bill on anything

1022
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:44.920
<v Speaker 1>else in the crime scene. In fact, those bloody footprints

1023
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:49.239
<v Speaker 1>in the hallway the sock bloody footprints. Investigators checked Stephen sock's.

1024
00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:53.800
<v Speaker 1>They found a match. They retested his hands, and gunshot

1025
00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:56.880
<v Speaker 1>residue was found on the right hand, not enough to

1026
00:56:57.400 --> 00:56:59.880
<v Speaker 1>conclusively say he fired the weapon, but enough to say

1027
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:03.840
<v Speaker 1>he'd been very close when it happened. They reanalyzed the

1028
00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:07.239
<v Speaker 1>nine one one call and they heard something strange in

1029
00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:11.599
<v Speaker 1>the background missed the chaos. Stephen's young son Joe can

1030
00:57:11.639 --> 00:57:15.519
<v Speaker 1>be heard asking quote, are you going to remarry? And

1031
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Stephen responded oddly, quote I don't know, Bud.

1032
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:22.800
<v Speaker 2>What the heck? That is really weird. Well.

1033
00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Forensic psychologists later point to this being a situation where

1034
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:31.480
<v Speaker 1>not only did it suggest that he heard his dad,

1035
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:36.159
<v Speaker 1>like Joe heard Stephen talk before potentially about remarrying, it

1036
00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:38.920
<v Speaker 1>also hints that Stephen had already begun laying the groundwork

1037
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:40.639
<v Speaker 1>for life after Amy.

1038
00:57:41.639 --> 00:57:44.039
<v Speaker 2>What okay?

1039
00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:46.920
<v Speaker 1>If Joe is asking are you going to remarry? That

1040
00:57:47.079 --> 00:57:50.159
<v Speaker 1>suggests that the conversation of remarrying in life after his

1041
00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:56.280
<v Speaker 1>month has already happened. Because remember, this isn't a conversation

1042
00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:59.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, a day or two later, when the ca

1043
00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:02.280
<v Speaker 1>it has time to ste This is the nine to one.

1044
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:03.760
<v Speaker 1>This has been minutes.

1045
00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:07.440
<v Speaker 2>That is, that doesn't make sense. That's mind blowing to me.

1046
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:11.199
<v Speaker 1>So what began as a complex anonymous murder for higher

1047
00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:14.760
<v Speaker 1>scheme on the dark web that had led it all

1048
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:19.320
<v Speaker 1>led back to one man, one phone, one catastrophic betrayal,

1049
00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:22.840
<v Speaker 1>and now police had plenty enough to arrest him. You

1050
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:27.480
<v Speaker 1>don't say so, On January twentieth, twenty seventeen, Stephen Alwaine

1051
00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:29.960
<v Speaker 1>dropped his son off at school and began what probably

1052
00:58:29.960 --> 00:58:32.079
<v Speaker 1>felt like just another quiet drive back to his in

1053
00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:35.400
<v Speaker 1>law's home. He had actually been staying there since Amy's death,

1054
00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:39.679
<v Speaker 1>because they welcomed him in with compassion about the whole event,

1055
00:58:39.880 --> 00:58:42.199
<v Speaker 1>you know, Yeah, the very people that he had taken everything.

1056
00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:44.719
<v Speaker 2>From that's going to later make them just sick.

1057
00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:48.679
<v Speaker 1>Oh probably. But as he made his way home that morning,

1058
00:58:48.760 --> 00:58:52.599
<v Speaker 1>police were waiting. During a planned routine traffic stop, officers

1059
00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:55.559
<v Speaker 1>placed Stephen under arrest for second degree murder of his wife,

1060
00:58:55.639 --> 00:58:59.119
<v Speaker 1>Amy Halwine. The arrest marked the beginning of the final

1061
00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:01.440
<v Speaker 1>chapter in a case that had taken nearly a year

1062
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:06.519
<v Speaker 1>to unravel. Stephen, ever, the calm and calculated individual, didn't

1063
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:08.920
<v Speaker 1>make a scene, but what came next was just as

1064
00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:11.199
<v Speaker 1>strange as everything that had led up to this moment.

1065
00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Bail was set for five hundred thousand dollars half a

1066
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:18.840
<v Speaker 1>million dollars, and Stephen paid it almost immediately, and he

1067
00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:20.320
<v Speaker 1>bailed himself out of jail.

1068
00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:24.960
<v Speaker 2>With his insurance money, most likely oh Man.

1069
00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:28.480
<v Speaker 1>He returned to live to the same address on Cottage

1070
00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Grove at same home where Amy had been murdered, the

1071
00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:34.000
<v Speaker 1>same place where he staged the suicide, the same place

1072
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.199
<v Speaker 1>where he had deliberately sent his nine year old son

1073
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:40.679
<v Speaker 1>in first to find her body, knowing what would happen. Unsurprisingly,

1074
00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:43.440
<v Speaker 1>the court imposed conditions. Stephen had to wear a GPS

1075
00:59:43.480 --> 00:59:46.400
<v Speaker 1>ankle monitor and he was only allowed to supervise visits

1076
00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:49.239
<v Speaker 1>with his son Joe. But those restrictions didn't seem to

1077
00:59:49.239 --> 00:59:52.079
<v Speaker 1>bother him, because two weeks later he was rested once again,

1078
00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:55.000
<v Speaker 1>this time for violating terms of his release by trying

1079
00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:56.280
<v Speaker 1>to contact Joe directly.

1080
00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:59.440
<v Speaker 2>The he just doesn't give a shit, this guy, No.

1081
00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:03.039
<v Speaker 1>He really. The judge raised his bail to six hundred

1082
01:00:03.079 --> 01:00:07.039
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars, and again Stephen paid it, but after grand

1083
01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:09.840
<v Speaker 1>jury reviewed the full scope of the evidence, the charge

1084
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:14.400
<v Speaker 1>was upgraded. On March twenty fourth, twenty seventeen, Stephen was

1085
01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:18.159
<v Speaker 1>formally charged with first degree premeditated murder. His new bail

1086
01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:20.679
<v Speaker 1>was set for one million dollars, and this time he

1087
01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:23.639
<v Speaker 1>couldn't make the payment, so Stephen was to remain in

1088
01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:25.519
<v Speaker 1>custody to await the trial.

1089
01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:28.239
<v Speaker 2>Okay, when you had said second degree, at first, I

1090
01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:30.800
<v Speaker 2>was like, what the yeah?

1091
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:35.239
<v Speaker 1>His trial began on January eighth. His trial began in

1092
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:38.559
<v Speaker 1>January of twenty eighteen. It was expected to be complex,

1093
01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:42.519
<v Speaker 1>full of digital forensics and expert testimonies, and it was,

1094
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:45.239
<v Speaker 1>but in the end, the story came down to something

1095
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:48.880
<v Speaker 1>brutally simple. A man who wanted his wife dead and

1096
01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:52.360
<v Speaker 1>who went to extraordinary lengths to make it happen was

1097
01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:56.920
<v Speaker 1>the exact individual sitting in the courtroom. Prosecutors argued that

1098
01:00:56.960 --> 01:01:02.159
<v Speaker 1>Stephen had carefully poisoned Amy with scopolamine around lunchtime on

1099
01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:06.480
<v Speaker 1>November thirteenth, when she started feeling dizzy and disoriented. He

1100
01:01:06.519 --> 01:01:08.840
<v Speaker 1>called her father, asking him to come pick up Joe.

1101
01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:11.960
<v Speaker 1>That got his son out of the house, and then

1102
01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:15.079
<v Speaker 1>once they were alone, Stephen waited for the drugs to

1103
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:18.480
<v Speaker 1>take its full effect. Amy could barely stand her words

1104
01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:22.480
<v Speaker 1>were slurred. He then shot her in the head in

1105
01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:25.960
<v Speaker 1>the hallway, then drug her body into the bedroom and

1106
01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:29.679
<v Speaker 1>cleaned up the scene. He pulled her pants down, slightly,

1107
01:01:29.800 --> 01:01:32.119
<v Speaker 1>left the gun by her side, arranged her body all

1108
01:01:32.119 --> 01:01:33.440
<v Speaker 1>in an attempt to try and make it look like

1109
01:01:33.559 --> 01:01:36.559
<v Speaker 1>she had taken her own life, then calmly picked up

1110
01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:39.159
<v Speaker 1>Joe from his in law's house took him out to

1111
01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:44.800
<v Speaker 1>dinner and brought him home to find her. It was cold, meticulous,

1112
01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:48.480
<v Speaker 1>and it fit perfectly with everything they now knew about

1113
01:01:48.519 --> 01:01:51.719
<v Speaker 1>Stephen and his life. The man who stood in front

1114
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:53.800
<v Speaker 1>of the jury was no longer the church leader and

1115
01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:57.800
<v Speaker 1>a loving husband. He was a manipulator, a liar, and

1116
01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:03.800
<v Speaker 1>a serial adulter who had made multiple affairs. When asked

1117
01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:07.679
<v Speaker 1>why he hadn't just left his wife, the prosecution gave

1118
01:02:07.719 --> 01:02:11.840
<v Speaker 1>the answer Stephen never would. Divorce was against his religion.

1119
01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:15.519
<v Speaker 1>But I guess murder and adultery though, aren't we aren't.

1120
01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm like, is all this other stuff not? Or

1121
01:02:18.280 --> 01:02:19.960
<v Speaker 2>he just thought he would be able to get away

1122
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:20.159
<v Speaker 2>with it.

1123
01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:23.480
<v Speaker 1>I guess I think it's public view if he can

1124
01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:26.280
<v Speaker 1>do these things and get away with it without people knowing.

1125
01:02:26.360 --> 01:02:29.599
<v Speaker 1>He did, But he couldn't do that as a divorce

1126
01:02:29.679 --> 01:02:32.719
<v Speaker 1>without people knowing, right, So it came down to what

1127
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:35.960
<v Speaker 1>he can do behind the scenes and maintain the facade

1128
01:02:36.320 --> 01:02:39.159
<v Speaker 1>of the perfect man that Stephen thinks he is.

1129
01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:43.000
<v Speaker 2>But he's also a complete idiot. Yeah, because I'm sorry,

1130
01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:45.559
<v Speaker 2>but you didn't do any of this stuff. Well, no,

1131
01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:47.760
<v Speaker 2>you're not going to get away. You didn't get away

1132
01:02:47.800 --> 01:02:48.119
<v Speaker 2>with it.

1133
01:02:48.239 --> 01:02:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Exactly if you're going online to say, can you kill

1134
01:02:52.039 --> 01:02:54.840
<v Speaker 1>my spouse for me? First red flag that you're doing

1135
01:02:54.880 --> 01:02:59.000
<v Speaker 1>something dumb and stupid, just saying mm hmm. Now. Amy's

1136
01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:03.599
<v Speaker 1>family filled the courtroom. They sat through testimonies about digital currency,

1137
01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:06.800
<v Speaker 1>ENCRYPTID software, fake hit man, websites, and a man they

1138
01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:10.199
<v Speaker 1>had once considered family. They heard how Stephen had tried

1139
01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:13.480
<v Speaker 1>to cover his tracks, how he failed, and how through

1140
01:03:13.599 --> 01:03:17.119
<v Speaker 1>pure luck that an iPhone backup had preserved the evidence

1141
01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:21.039
<v Speaker 1>needed to convict him in court. After eight days of testimony,

1142
01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:25.000
<v Speaker 1>the jury took six hours to deliver the verdict of guilty.

1143
01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Stephen Allwine was sentenced to life in prison without the

1144
01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:35.119
<v Speaker 1>possibility of parole. Amy Allwine's murder, planned through the shadows

1145
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:37.440
<v Speaker 1>of the dark web, has become one of the most

1146
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:41.440
<v Speaker 1>infamous modern examples on how online criminal tools are revolving

1147
01:03:41.960 --> 01:03:45.360
<v Speaker 1>and how the real consequences can actually be in the

1148
01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:49.800
<v Speaker 1>real world. For law enforcement, the all Wine case prompted

1149
01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:52.719
<v Speaker 1>a hard look at how serious dark web threats are treated.

1150
01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:56.239
<v Speaker 1>In the months before Amy's death, the FBI knew something

1151
01:03:56.719 --> 01:03:59.119
<v Speaker 1>and someone like something was going on, and someone was

1152
01:03:59.239 --> 01:04:01.400
<v Speaker 1>trying to get to and trying to have her killed,

1153
01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:05.880
<v Speaker 1>but the limitations of technology, jurisdiction, and anonymity tied their hands.

1154
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Amy was told she was being targeted, yet nothing could

1155
01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:11.960
<v Speaker 1>be done to protect her from the men sleeping beside

1156
01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:16.119
<v Speaker 1>her every night. Her murder proved that the next person

1157
01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:19.000
<v Speaker 1>placing an order on a hitman site might not actually

1158
01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:23.119
<v Speaker 1>be scammed, they might follow through with it. In the

1159
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:27.880
<v Speaker 1>cybercrime world, the fallout was just as dramatic. Ethical hackers

1160
01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:31.280
<v Speaker 1>like Chris Monteiro, who had been sounding the alarm about

1161
01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:35.840
<v Speaker 1>Bess Mafia long before the murder, were both validated and frustrated.

1162
01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:39.880
<v Speaker 1>His efforts to expose the scam site had uncovered real danger,

1163
01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:45.079
<v Speaker 1>but warning signs had gone largely unheard. After Amy's murder

1164
01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:49.079
<v Speaker 1>and Stephen's arrest, Chris Monteiro continued monitoring the dark web

1165
01:04:49.159 --> 01:04:53.159
<v Speaker 1>hitman sites, collecting and forwarding information on more than two

1166
01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:58.719
<v Speaker 1>hundred murdered for higher plots to authorities, but still the

1167
01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:02.760
<v Speaker 1>response was sluggish. As for most recent reporting, only a

1168
01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:05.519
<v Speaker 1>hand of full of these ones and plots have actually

1169
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:10.920
<v Speaker 1>resulted in actual arrests or investigations. Eura, the name of

1170
01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:14.679
<v Speaker 1>the individual behind Besa Mafia, faded into the background but

1171
01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:19.960
<v Speaker 1>never really disappeared. After Bessa Mafia collapsed, he rebranded under

1172
01:05:19.960 --> 01:05:25.320
<v Speaker 1>different names like Crime Bay and Nosa Nostra. Sorry, Costa Nostra.

1173
01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:29.280
<v Speaker 1>He kept continuing to have these run and be this

1174
01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:33.559
<v Speaker 1>hitman scam for profit sort of situation. Now while his

1175
01:05:33.599 --> 01:05:36.239
<v Speaker 1>services were fake, the people placing those orders were real

1176
01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:40.719
<v Speaker 1>and very dangerous. In time, Ura even actually began cooperating

1177
01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:43.880
<v Speaker 1>with journalists, occasionally passing along information that led to the

1178
01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:46.920
<v Speaker 1>prevention of further crimes, But the ethics of that collaboration

1179
01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:50.599
<v Speaker 1>and Eury's own motives remain a big point of debate.

1180
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:54.960
<v Speaker 1>Amy's legacy is one of tragedy, but it's also one

1181
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:57.880
<v Speaker 1>of warning. She was not someone living a high risk

1182
01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:01.280
<v Speaker 1>lifestyle or tangled in criminal activity. She was a mother,

1183
01:06:01.639 --> 01:06:05.079
<v Speaker 1>a business owner, a church volunteer, someone who lived her

1184
01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:08.639
<v Speaker 1>life in kindness and in faith. Her murders showed that

1185
01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:11.239
<v Speaker 1>violence doesn't always come from strangers, and that even the

1186
01:06:11.320 --> 01:06:16.599
<v Speaker 1>darkest crimes can unfold behind well maintained facades. Stephen Allline

1187
01:06:16.719 --> 01:06:20.239
<v Speaker 1>is now serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole.

1188
01:06:20.840 --> 01:06:24.360
<v Speaker 1>He never confessed. In fact, he still maintains his innocence

1189
01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:27.159
<v Speaker 1>to this day, even as the evidence against him leaves

1190
01:06:27.159 --> 01:06:29.840
<v Speaker 1>absolutely zero room for doubt.

1191
01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:33.559
<v Speaker 2>So that just shows that he is no remorse really, hey,

1192
01:06:33.800 --> 01:06:36.519
<v Speaker 2>or I guess he's just continuing with this frickin facade

1193
01:06:36.519 --> 01:06:37.559
<v Speaker 2>that he is a good guy.

1194
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:41.079
<v Speaker 1>He's trying to still maintain who he is. And I mean,

1195
01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:46.079
<v Speaker 1>even in the face of like absolute no room for doubt,

1196
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:48.960
<v Speaker 1>you did this thing. It's like, no, not me, I

1197
01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:50.360
<v Speaker 1>am perfect little Stephen.

1198
01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:54.079
<v Speaker 2>And no regard for his son either, no, because now, like,

1199
01:06:54.159 --> 01:06:56.800
<v Speaker 2>where the hell is his son? I mean, I'm sure

1200
01:06:56.840 --> 01:06:59.119
<v Speaker 2>someone is looking after him, but there would have been

1201
01:06:59.159 --> 01:07:01.039
<v Speaker 2>a time there where he had nobody and he lost

1202
01:07:01.079 --> 01:07:01.800
<v Speaker 2>both his parents.

1203
01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:04.599
<v Speaker 1>He lose both his parents, but Joe is actually growing

1204
01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:07.360
<v Speaker 1>up with Amy's family, so he is surrounded by love

1205
01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:11.719
<v Speaker 1>like stability, and those who knew and still remembered her. Right, Okay,

1206
01:07:11.880 --> 01:07:15.719
<v Speaker 1>they remember her compassion, her unmistakable joy and those sort

1207
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:18.679
<v Speaker 1>of things are brought into his life. That's good, But

1208
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:21.320
<v Speaker 1>they also do remain remember things like the dog training,

1209
01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:23.639
<v Speaker 1>right as well, because there is that community that she

1210
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:26.320
<v Speaker 1>helped build, and he continues to live on with many

1211
01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:28.880
<v Speaker 1>of them honoring her name at events and gatherings too.

1212
01:07:29.239 --> 01:07:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, good, so her life.

1213
01:07:31.719 --> 01:07:34.679
<v Speaker 1>And the way it was taken continues to be studied, mourned,

1214
01:07:34.920 --> 01:07:38.719
<v Speaker 1>and remembered. And that is a story of amy online.

1215
01:07:39.079 --> 01:07:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh i'm I didn't expect that ending. No, I'm not

1216
01:07:44.039 --> 01:07:46.679
<v Speaker 2>gonna lie. I thought that she would live.

1217
01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:50.039
<v Speaker 1>Well, I was hoping so, but no, the.

1218
01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Fact that she didn't is just bullshit.

1219
01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:59.199
<v Speaker 1>Also, he can just maintain the profile of the perfect

1220
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:04.400
<v Speaker 1>churchgoer who wants to sleep around with people, and hey,

1221
01:08:04.679 --> 01:08:06.480
<v Speaker 1>get a life insurance pay it while he's at it.

1222
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:09.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't understand, Like, who is this guy think

1223
01:08:09.599 --> 01:08:14.559
<v Speaker 2>he is? Obviously he is just he never was good really.

1224
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:16.800
<v Speaker 1>No, not at all. He was a piece of shit

1225
01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:20.359
<v Speaker 1>from the start, one hundred percent. Because he knew going

1226
01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:23.319
<v Speaker 1>into this relationship that you know what, with your religion,

1227
01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:27.279
<v Speaker 1>with what religion she had, like they adopted a son together.

1228
01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:30.279
<v Speaker 1>He knew what he was building and then he had

1229
01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:33.399
<v Speaker 1>no care in the world to just throw it aside,

1230
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:36.119
<v Speaker 1>not even throw it aside in the terms of having

1231
01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:40.199
<v Speaker 1>the balls to divorce, having the balls to face that

1232
01:08:40.279 --> 01:08:43.920
<v Speaker 1>it's not a life he actually wanted. He made a mistake. Instead,

1233
01:08:44.199 --> 01:08:47.199
<v Speaker 1>he made other people suffer for the mistake. He then

1234
01:08:47.319 --> 01:08:48.640
<v Speaker 1>later learned that he made.

1235
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:51.479
<v Speaker 2>Okay, sorry, did you say how much time he got

1236
01:08:51.520 --> 01:08:54.760
<v Speaker 2>in jail? And I just like rage, like I didn't

1237
01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:59.199
<v Speaker 2>hear that a life term, Okay, yeah, I mean which

1238
01:08:59.239 --> 01:09:05.039
<v Speaker 2>is good? Like, oh man, I don't know. Sometimes I'm okay,

1239
01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:08.000
<v Speaker 2>life is good, but it's like still sometimes I think

1240
01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:11.319
<v Speaker 2>it's just like not good enough, you know, when Amy

1241
01:09:11.479 --> 01:09:16.800
<v Speaker 2>literally just doesn't isn't alive anymore. So yeah, anyway, that

1242
01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:18.800
<v Speaker 2>is a whole nother story or podcast.

1243
01:09:18.880 --> 01:09:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Right, definitely, Oh, I feel like sneeze coming on. Oh wait, no,

1244
01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:26.039
<v Speaker 1>it's good, it's gone. That was like the worst feeling

1245
01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:27.720
<v Speaker 1>in the world because I love sneezes and I had

1246
01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:29.640
<v Speaker 1>to force it to leave because I've got the micd

1247
01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:29.960
<v Speaker 1>on me.

1248
01:09:30.439 --> 01:09:31.960
<v Speaker 2>So well that sucks.

1249
01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it does suck.

1250
01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:36.399
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, now I guess you can continue on with

1251
01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:37.439
<v Speaker 2>your day being sick.

1252
01:09:37.760 --> 01:09:41.359
<v Speaker 1>Oh right, Hopefully I didn't sound too terrible in today's episode.

1253
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<v Speaker 1>I know it got a little bit if he had

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of points I stopped to blow my nose

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<v Speaker 1>or get a good coffin things like that, but hopefully

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't noticeable.

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<v Speaker 2>Hopefully you heard some cute little chickies.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they've been making some noise, so because.

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<v Speaker 2>They're freaking adorable. We need to actually post them in

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<v Speaker 2>patreons some photos we should.

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<v Speaker 1>That'll be up to you. You do it. You're all about

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<v Speaker 1>taking the photos of them.

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<v Speaker 2>So I did a whole damn reel of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah that was for you, your own personal social.

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<v Speaker 2>I know I'm a little extra apparently with He's chickens.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah you are. But anyways, thank you for being here.

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<v Speaker 1>Hopefully enjoyed today's episode. Don't forget to like subscribe all

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<v Speaker 1>those things. I know this isn't YouTube, but you can

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<v Speaker 1>do those things on some of the platforms that you're

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<v Speaker 1>listening on right now. You can also do things like

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<v Speaker 1>join our Patreon check out the description for things like

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<v Speaker 1>our website social media. You can even give us a

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<v Speaker 1>review where an indie podcast host produced and read research

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01:10:30.920 --> 01:10:33.359
<v Speaker 1>all on our own. Are a little lonesome here in

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<v Speaker 1>your tiny home, so your support goes a long way

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<v Speaker 1>with us. So thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sure does. Thank you. And I just have to say,

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<v Speaker 2>don't hire a murderer.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't hire a murder Words of wisdom for the Day.

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<v Speaker 2>From Nicole Cole. Yeah, like that is just I wish

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<v Speaker 2>shit like that didn't exists.

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<v Speaker 1>That just says, don't hire a murderer.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Period, No, it'll be like Nicole.

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<v Speaker 2>Quote from Nicole my quote of the day. Oh my god, don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Hire a murderer.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, until next time, stay wicked,