WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:07.360 Well whiskey, come and take my pain, the money, my ray. 2 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.439 Why think alone when you can drink it all In 3 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:17.440 with Ricochet's Three Whiskey Happy Hour, join your bartenders Steve Hayward, 4 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:26.280 John Yu and the International Woman of Mystery Lucretia. 5 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:28.280 Where they slapped it up and David, ain't you busy? 6 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:31.559 On the should taps got a giving. 7 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:37.960 Welcome everybody to another issue episode of the Three Whiskey 8 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:42.719 Happy Hour on a day that will live in history 9 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:46.320 because it is the day for the first time that 10 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:52.079 an American has been elected? Is that the right word appointed? 11 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:58.640 Appt chosen by the hand, chosen by the hand of God. 12 00:00:58.439 --> 00:00:59.719 To be Pope? 13 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.040 Pope? It used to be right. He even went by 14 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:09.519 Bob right, Bob pre host Now Hope, Oh Bob, Bob 15 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:16.200 now Ope Leo amazing And so I'm hoped we will 16 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:20.480 have a very interesting, deep discussion about Pope Leo and 17 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:26.400 the meaning of it with my two co hosts, Steve Hayward, Steve. 18 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:26.599 Where are you? 19 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:28.359 How are you? How's your whiskey? 20 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:31.400 I home? And by the way, we are the perfect 21 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:34.120 podcast for this subject, at least if you're a Graham 22 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:36.640 Green reader. I was having flashbacks through the last couple 23 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:39.680 of hours to the whiskey priest of the Power in 24 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:43.640 the Golden So I'm not legend anything about Father Bob 25 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:47.200 except he used from Chicago. That's is just awesome. 26 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:49.959 Yes, the South side of Chicago. 27 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:50.120 No. 28 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:53.359 Less, I wonder if he ever played basketball with O 29 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:58.799 Barack Obama. And of course we're joined by the international 30 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:03.280 woman of mystery, Lucretia. Lucretia, how are you. How's your whiskey? 31 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.840 I'm drinking Italian wine. It's I don't want to say 32 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:11.120 it's a protest drink, but protest drink. 33 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:14.240 Okay, let's get right into it. Lucretia, what is your 34 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:17.159 beef with the new pope? What do you think about 35 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:20.159 the new pope? You know i'd be your listeners can't 36 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:22.120 see your face full of disappointment. 37 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:25.960 No, it's not. I shouldn't say that. I'm going to 38 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:29.360 try to withhold judgment. I wish he were a pope 39 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:32.800 who had stayed out of politics altogether. I wish all 40 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:35.840 of them would stay out of politics altogether. I have 41 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.000 I have priests in my church. I have several of them, 42 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:43.919 both of whom, actually many of them. The two senior priests, 43 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:46.719 the senior pastors I know quite well. But we've had 44 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:50.800 a you know, it's pretty steady stream of younger priests 45 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:55.520 coming through, and they've all almost always been really conservative. 46 00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:59.800 But you only know that when you have private conversations 47 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:03.560 with them and they go out of their way not 48 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:07.560 to be overtly political about things, and because you know, 49 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:12.080 because that's what that's not what the Catholic Church should 50 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:15.360 be doing. And the Catholic Church should not be telling 51 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:19.120 the American president or the American vice president what they 52 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:22.319 should be doing about immigration or about climate change. Those 53 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:24.240 are the two things that actually worry me a great 54 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:24.960 deal about this one. 55 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:30.639 What is lucas What has the new pope said about immigration? 56 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:32.360 Are about climate change? 57 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:34.120 I think it's a little bit less and Steve can 58 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:36.080 probably back me up on this, a little bit less 59 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:39.800 about what he personally says and what he decides to 60 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:41.240 repost or retweet. 61 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:45.319 Yeah, and this is everything who uses oh. 62 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:50.960 Yes, yes, quite frequently. And he has been critical of JD. Vance. 63 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:58.280 He has been critical of the failure of church members 64 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.800 of the Catholic Church not taking their responsibility for Mother 65 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:05.599 Earth much more seriously. And it's a reciprocal relationship and 66 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:07.840 even though the Bible says that we should have dominion 67 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:10.479 over the earth, we shouldn't really look at it that way. 68 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.599 And we're going, you know, just dumb stuff. So that 69 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:16.000 bothers me on the other hand, and I'm going to 70 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:19.639 try to be as balanced as i can about this tonight. 71 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:24.920 He does seem to have about issues that do matter. 72 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:28.240 Who cares about climate change? If God can't fix the world, 73 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.360 If God can't fix the atmosphere or the rising oceans, 74 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:35.319 God can't do anything, and so shut up. If your pope, 75 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:37.879 you shouldn't be talking about that. But anyway, on the 76 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:40.079 other hand, what you should be talking about are things 77 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:46.879 like abortion and denying biological sex and the natural order 78 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.279 of things that God put on earth. Those are things 79 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:52.360 that are appropriate for popes, and I don't consider them political. 80 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:56.600 They're moral issues that find their way into our political discourse. 81 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:59.519 And he seems to be slightly better on those issues. 82 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.240 Thing I'll say is he came out with some more 83 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:08.439 kind of conservative vestments on I guess, Pope, you know, 84 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:11.439 I'm a convert. I'm not a cryio Catholic, so some 85 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:13.279 of these things are a little bit lost on me. 86 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:20.000 But Pope Francis would sort of shun all of the trappings, 87 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:24.879 the traditional trappings of the of the papacy. And this 88 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:28.560 guy came out in some traditional vestments, traditional garments, and 89 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:32.839 gave a fairly traditional blessing. So maybe there's hope. Maybe 90 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:35.759 he'll just stay away from that nonsense. And you know, 91 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:38.759 when you're when you're just a bishop, you can probably 92 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.839 have especially if you're a US Catholic bishop, you can 93 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:45.600 probably have opinions about politics, but once you're the pope, 94 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:47.879 you should stay out of it. Opinions. 95 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:49.720 What do you think you think, Pope? 96 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:53.879 Really quick, John, I just want to say one last thing. 97 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:58.600 I became a Catholic because of the witness of John 98 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:03.199 Paul the second I really, I mean that was what 99 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:06.360 sort of got me intrigued by it all. And you 100 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:14.040 know his politics were not politics, they were His anti 101 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:19.040 Soviet was was because the Soviets were atheists. And anyway, 102 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:20.839 you guys know that I don't have to go in it. Sorry, 103 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:22.680 go ahead, Steve, I just want to get that out. 104 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:23.160 There, Steve. 105 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.360 Your view on pop Leo the fourteenth Is he going 106 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:28.759 to do better than the first thirteen? What is with 107 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:29.959 you Catholics? 108 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:34.879 Well, I'm a non union Catholic. Remember I'm Eastern Orthodox. 109 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:40.600 Although what really, I didn't know that I am, because 110 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:44.079 that's okay, we're gonna have to find a new coast 111 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:44.879 co host. 112 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:47.879 No, it is the most conservative branch of Christianity. 113 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:48.160 Right. 114 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:54.040 They stay assiduously out of politics. Okay, Look, several things 115 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:56.399 to be observed about him, just to statements of fact. 116 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:59.279 I didn't realize until a couple hours ago. He's only 117 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:02.480 been a cardinal for two years. He's really new to 118 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:05.839 the rank. So Francis elevated him. That's interesting. He spent 119 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:09.800 almost twenty years down in Latin America in Peru. Now, 120 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:13.560 of course, now Francis Francis had been buddy buddy with 121 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:16.560 some of those liberation theology folks back in the eighties 122 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:20.040 and nineties in Argentina. I always said liberation theology was 123 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.600 just Marxism with salsa, and that was all very bad stuff. 124 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.600 But I do think that the ranks of bishops in 125 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:30.040 Latin America had been divided and the clergy there as 126 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:32.519 they have been in a lot of places. By the way, 127 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:34.959 on the climate change business, yeah, he had one retweet 128 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:38.759 of some stupid thing on climate and I remember Lucretia 129 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:42.399 and you will too. Professor Jaffa picking up the Catholic 130 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.639 bishop's statement in the early eighties saying the existence of 131 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:48.639 nuclear weapons calls in the question the sovereignty of God, 132 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:51.360 and he said, when did Catholics stop believing in the 133 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:55.360 omnipotence of God? Right? Just swap out climate change for 134 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:57.680 nuclear weapons and you have the same thing. And I 135 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:01.959 think the much lower intensity of the climate issue with 136 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:05.439 the Catholic clergy and bishops sort of shows you it 137 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:07.399 doesn't have a lot of staying power there. Yeah, they'll 138 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:09.920 say stupid things, but they were really a very bad 139 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:11.839 force in the eighties on those issues. 140 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:13.439 Now. 141 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:16.720 I do remember a couple other observations. It is a 142 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:21.839 curious thing that Pope John Paul two was made pope, 143 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:26.240 the first non European pope and well ever right, sorry, 144 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:29.160 non Italian pope in four hundred years. Francis was the 145 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:33.000 first non European pope ever. And I kept thinking, well, 146 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:35.159 it's going to be maybe African, That's what I was 147 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:35.679 hoping for. 148 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:37.399 I wanted Robert Sarah. 149 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:42.679 So yeah, or another conservative person from Asia. Right, So 150 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.080 in picking an American I really can't get past the 151 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:50.240 fact that is it really a pure coincidence they picked 152 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:52.759 an American, which they said they never didn't say they'd 153 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:55.000 never do it, but it was always assumed you'd never 154 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:57.960 have an American pope because America runs the world, and 155 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:02.440 why give them the Vatican two. So the fact that 156 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:05.039 is a pure coincidence that you have an American pope 157 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:09.679 who has dissented on immigration issues in his retweets at 158 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:11.840 the very moment that you have Donald Trump as this 159 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.080 world historical force arriving on the scene, it's hard to 160 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:19.159 rule that out as a pure coincidence. You don't want 161 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:21.720 to dissect what they were really discussing there behind closed 162 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:24.159 doors of the Vatican. But you know, my sense is 163 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:26.519 there's a lot of people who think I'm one of them, 164 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:31.279 that Trump is worldwide, is going to outlast Trump. I mean, 165 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:33.960 the pope will be here for what twenty years, maybe longer, 166 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:37.000 but Trump has gone in another three and a half years. 167 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:39.879 But I think trump Ism will live on in various 168 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:42.759 forms because I think he has changed the world and 169 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:45.159 the Catholics want to be part of that action. Maybe 170 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:48.399 they do, I don't know, hard to rule it out. 171 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.919 He went out of his way to not be American today. 172 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:53.240 That's for sure. 173 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:54.279 Well, I don't know. 174 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:55.919 I mean, yes, he did. 175 00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:58.840 By speaking Italian. 176 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:03.799 She spoke Italian here. Well, there was nothing that would 177 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:07.080 indicate that he and he hasn't lived in America all 178 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:09.080 that much. Most of the time he's been in Perune. 179 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.320 He's been in the Vatican for the last few years, 180 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.360 since ever since he became that Bishop of something something. 181 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:16.879 Yeah, well, okay, but I do know how he's going 182 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:19.159 to get canonized as a saint in the fullness of time. 183 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.480 John turns out the poor man is a White Sox fan, 184 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:25.120 and it will take a miracle for the White Sox 185 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:27.879 to ever compete well again in Major League Baseball in 186 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:28.840 the next decade. 187 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:32.519 So now I've seen this on the internet that people 188 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.240 say he has a Costco card, which impresses me. But 189 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:38.120 I know why why do people say this. Have they 190 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:39.080 seen him in Costco? 191 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:39.840 I don't know. 192 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.080 But he won't be excited about seeing an Ammo bag 193 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:45.519 in Costco because he's also my gun. 194 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:48.279 I know that I sent that picture. So I was 195 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:51.120 in Costco. I'm in Texas, and I went by the 196 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:54.399 Costco in Texas to see the difference, and they had 197 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:57.519 Ammo bags for sale. I didn't even know what they were. 198 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:00.840 I've never seen one, so that all these kind of 199 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.919 new compartments and fancy and all kinds of things like that. 200 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:07.159 But let me let me ask you, Lucretia, what are 201 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:12.120 the challenges that face Pope Leo the fourteenth? And I 202 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:16.320 see these headlines as say, Pope Leo to take over 203 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:20.720 divided church or to take over church under stress or 204 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.080 church under pressure? What are they were fraying? I'm glad 205 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:27.080 I'm the host this week because I'm not Catholic. I 206 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.960 don't really I don't see all the why it's so 207 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:33.720 important who the pope is. But then I'm a Protestant, 208 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:36.480 so I don't understand it. What what are these challenges? 209 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:40.440 What are these divisions? What are these right obstacles? 210 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:43.039 So let me put this to you in terms that 211 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.960 perhaps makes sense to a Protestant if one believes, as 212 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.919 Catholics do, that this is the two hundred and sixty 213 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:54.159 seventh Vicar of Christ. This is the heir to Peter, 214 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:58.720 to whom Jesus said, you are Peter, the rock upon 215 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:01.519 whom I build my church, and the gates of Hell 216 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.559 shall not prevail against it. And then, you know, gives 217 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:11.159 to the Peter and the apostles, certain divine dispensations. You know, 218 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:14.120 who you forgive will be your sins will be forgiven 219 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:18.519 all of those things. If you are a traditional Catholic, 220 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:23.720 you have certain ideas about the Church that come not 221 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:25.639 only from the Bible, but of course from the long 222 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:29.840 history of Catholic theology and Catholic dogma and so forth. 223 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:32.759 And now where we are in the modern day, in 224 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:38.279 the modern secular Western world, should the Catholic Church stop 225 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:44.519 being so strict about things like not giving the sacrament 226 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:49.279 of communion to someone who's divorced. Should we be more 227 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:55.720 open to the idea of women fully participating in every 228 00:12:55.799 --> 00:13:00.559 aspect of church life, you know, bishops and things like 229 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:04.600 that that you Protestants like to do. Should we have 230 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:09.159 Latin Masses? Is there anything about the traditions of the 231 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.879 Mass that have been handed around down for centuries that 232 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:15.879 are valuable? And the reason that's important, John, is because 233 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.159 in America, at least in the United States, where Catholicism 234 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.799 is having a revival among young young people, it's not 235 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:28.960 in the Oh yeah, go ahead and be transgender. Go 236 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.039 ahead and have your same sex girlfriend or boyfriend and 237 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.279 have sex with them outside of marriage and all those 238 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:37.480 other things that you know, some parts of the church 239 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:41.639 are insisting the Catholic Church embrace instead. They want they 240 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:48.360 want the certainty, they want the tradition, they want the rules, 241 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:51.480 the regulations, the outlines by which they can more easily 242 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.519 live their lives in this time of CERVI. So that's 243 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:56.240 true not just in America, but around the world. So 244 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.440 the real divide in the church, to short shorten my 245 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.679 answer and get to the point that you asked, is 246 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.960 between those people who think the Church should bend to 247 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:09.720 the ways of the world versus the ways of the 248 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.799 world would be better off bending back to the church. 249 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:18.519 That's really the question I think, And that's the divide 250 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:21.080 that is in the church today. Sure there's there's other 251 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:27.200 minor issues. But if the pope is infallible when he 252 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:32.200 speaks in what's it called in u, there's a certain 253 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.679 way that I forget, I forget the word. 254 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:40.039 But speaking in tongues, no, no, no, no, no, no, I know. 255 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:43.440 I just they have it in Catholic churches too, Steve, 256 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:47.399 they have they have charismatic groups in Catholic churches. 257 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:49.759 Oh really, I might convert. Now that's the best part 258 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:55.320 of the ceremony, the speaking in tongues having been miracles 259 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:59.159 and gospel music. 260 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:05.120 Right, all of that. No, but really it is a 261 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.480 In many ways, the Catholic Church is at the same 262 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:12.360 sort of crossroads that Western civilization in general is is 263 00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:16.159 are the traditions. And I've seen people say this about 264 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:19.200 Pope Leo, that he may be the person who can 265 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:25.039 restore in many ways Western civilization that Christians he believes 266 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:28.000 can and he has said this and gives me some hope. 267 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:32.159 Christians are the ones who can restore the moral foundation 268 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:36.360 that made Western civilization great. And what's happened, probably since 269 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.080 Vatican too, is that the Church has looked for ways 270 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:45.120 to embrace modernity and even secularism, to bring supposedly bring 271 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:52.279 be more inclusive. Pope Francis was absolutely foul about all 272 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:55.240 of that. I'll just leave it there, and I don't 273 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:57.840 think Pope Leo will be that bad, but he does 274 00:15:57.919 --> 00:15:59.000 have a challenge there. 275 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.799 What's the Steve Steve d c it the same way. 276 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:07.120 This is a church that's divided between one camp that 277 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.360 wants to modernize the views of the church to be 278 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:16.080 more harmonious with where I guess progressive society is going 279 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:20.200 versus how would you put it, people who want the 280 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:24.399 church to return back to earlier principles. Maybe a more 281 00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:28.279 conservative direction is that, well, look, that's pulling the church apart. 282 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:30.200 The way I always put it is it's between a 283 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:32.799 modernist and the traditionalist. And that's true. And by the way, 284 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:36.399 most denominations, it's not just a Catholic church. Modernization or 285 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:40.840 modernists are usually bad. But here's some interesting things about Leo. 286 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.679 One is, you know, he was a math major at 287 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.480 Villanova and he even published a book. 288 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:48.600 When I grew up near Villanova, when I was in 289 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:50.960 eighth grade, I could have gotten a BA in mathematics 290 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:52.600 of Villanova. You know that. 291 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.039 Not only does he know sin, he also knows post 292 00:16:57.039 --> 00:16:58.799 sign right, yeah. 293 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:02.960 You saw my that's well. But he actually published, he 294 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.960 published he published an article about Bayesian statistics and theology 295 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.119 that that's kind of the Yeah, so I mean, oh, 296 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:13.000 but then add to it. At first I thought, well, 297 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:16.640 he's a you know, quantitative socialist, not really quantity of 298 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:20.519 social scientists, but how many priests are literate and Bayesian statistics. 299 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:23.039 I'm not even literate in Bayesian statistics. I mean, I 300 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:24.559 can give me half an hour. 301 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:27.119 So illiterate and you don't know pronoun. 302 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:33.839 Well, I like Bayesian better, but okay, I. 303 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:35.559 Didn't know what you're talking about it first. 304 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:40.960 Okay, well now then, but Steve, we forgive you. Go ahead. 305 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:43.359 The other thing that's interesting about him is that he 306 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:45.759 is part of the Augustinian Order. In fact, I think 307 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:46.000 he was. 308 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:48.920 Significant. 309 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:51.960 Well, he's a follower of San Augustine, who's you know, 310 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:54.599 very you know, this is promising, I think, because if 311 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:58.559 there's anybody who is an anchor to a traditionalist Catholic 312 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:02.000 theology and philosophy, it would be Augustine as much as 313 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.920 are maybe in some ways even more so than a quitness. 314 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:07.519 In other words, he's not a Jesuit. The Jesuits are always, 315 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.119 in my mind, very suspect, although I've known many very 316 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:14.839 fine Jesuits, conservative theologically and philosophically, so they're always harder 317 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:21.119 to pin down. And you know, the Benedictines and Transiscan Franciscans, 318 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:24.880 they're always a little dodgy, right, They're prone to modernist temptations. 319 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:29.599 And so we're about opus day, how do they fit in? 320 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.119 Since I'm not a fan of the Dan Brown movies. 321 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:40.640 Oh no. The only thing stupider than those movies are 322 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:45.000 the ones where Nicholas Cage steals the Declaration of Independence. 323 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:48.240 Those are stupid otherwise so so. 324 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:51.519 But Steve, see you see the challenge for the church 325 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:55.119 going forward as a struggle which we use of modernists 326 00:18:55.119 --> 00:19:00.279 and traditionalness. How does the new Pope Leo fall on 327 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:02.279 that scale? I mean, how do you think he's going 328 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:05.440 to direct the church? And one towards the modernists side. 329 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.640 I mean the tweets that Lucretian was mentioning make it 330 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:11.839 sound like he's worried about climate change and immigration and 331 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:15.680 maybe he wants to move things in the modernist direction, 332 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:18.319 which it sounds like you're not in favor of. 333 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:21.680 Well, I mean, we'll see. I mean, skip the current 334 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:25.279 headline issues with the newspaper for a moment. I have 335 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:30.160 seen some data showing that the younger, the current generation 336 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.960 of seminarians in the Catholic seminaries are much more conservative 337 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.359 than the last generation. The future of the church appears 338 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.359 to be from the rising ranks of the next generation 339 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:42.079 of clergy looks to be traditionalists. 340 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:46.200 Can I just add to that for really good second, Steve, So, 341 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.359 there was a very important article that came out of 342 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:52.039 the I think it was called the Oxford Review. It 343 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:57.279 was a Catholic probably yeah, probably, yeah, probably, And it 344 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:01.519 talked about how the especially the America and seminaries. I mean, 345 00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:04.039 I'm going to be a little cross forgive me, folks 346 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:10.839 were hotbeds of homosexualism, and that, in fact, you were 347 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.319 unlikely to be a successful seminarian if you came in 348 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:19.880 being masculine. That they looked for. It was, you know, 349 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.920 basically they were grooming priests at the seminaries. 350 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:27.920 And well, yeah, I think it's worse than this. Oh yeah, no, 351 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:31.960 think I mean, well, look I put it this way. Well, 352 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.920 there were long rumors, I think, well founded rumors. This 353 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:39.759 is thirty forty years ago that seminaries attracted people who 354 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:44.119 were gay and or pedophiles, right, And we know some 355 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.319 cardinals like Cardinal McCarrick was covered this up and participated 356 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.759 in it. Cardinal Mahoney and Los Angeles was investigated by 357 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.039 the Los Angeles Police Department. Do you know that I 358 00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.680 had looked this up earlier because I had forgotten the details. 359 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.319 The Diocese of Los Angeles paid out eight high hundred 360 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:04.400 and eighty million dollars in damages for the pedophile priests 361 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.279 that they covered up and shuffled around. It was my 362 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:09.200 late friend Kelly Clark who had a big hand in 363 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.920 some of that those cases. And another lawyer is still 364 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:13.359 a live I know, Orange County and. 365 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:20.799 One of the the accomplishments of John Paul, the second, 366 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.880 who you know is often accused of not being quite 367 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.559 as hands on about this as he should have been. 368 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:29.400 He is the one who actually got the seminaries cleaned up. 369 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.160 And I will tell you I know quite a few seminaries. 370 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:35.799 I support seminarians, and they are entirely different breed today, 371 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.559 and I do think John Paul gets a lot more 372 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:44.799 credit for doing that Benedict's Francis Nunn. Francis was terrible 373 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:46.599 on that whole issue in a lot of ways which 374 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.920 we won't go into right now, but that has made 375 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:51.680 a huge difference. I do remember getting into a have 376 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:54.359 to tell you guys this really quick, a dispute with 377 00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:56.880 my neighbor one time, who tried to tell me that 378 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.440 the problem with all of the pedophile priests out there 379 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:04.240 was because they didn't let the priest marry. And so 380 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:08.359 I looked at my neighbor and I said, okay, Chris, 381 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:13.599 if your wife Sue is gone for six or eight months, 382 00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:16.039 is the first thing you do look to a little 383 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:20.799 boy to have sex with. That is the dumbest argument 384 00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:23.440 I've ever heard in my life. It don't start, you know, 385 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:26.480 But but those kind of arguments made a difference. Oh yeah, 386 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.599 we need to let priest marry. I don't know what 387 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:32.400 I think about priest marrying, but it certainly shouldn't be 388 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.319 so that we can stop them from trying to have 389 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:35.440 sex with little boys. 390 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:39.599 Sorry, now, can I make a last comment? Don Johnny 391 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:41.400 me when I moved on, But the last comment about 392 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.599 popes and politics. So John Paul two, we know, scared 393 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.359 the hell out of the Soviet Union when he was picked. 394 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:50.880 The Soviet Union was hugely alarmed. I tell this in 395 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:54.240 my book. But he was very prudent about it, you know. 396 00:22:54.359 --> 00:23:00.119 His his anti communist statements were always elliptical, subtle in 397 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.119 direct but people understood what he meant when when he 398 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:05.079 went to Poland in seventy nine and said, be not 399 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.599 afraid when the whole country turns out for him. Right, 400 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.039 And I don't know just one detail when when when 401 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:13.559