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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos, I am Dan Fha Valley,

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Danpa Valley.

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Speaker 2: I don't know my own name back.

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Speaker 1: That's with my with my certain five fantabulous co host,

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mister Grant Hughes. We're in peak slash rare form right now.

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Apparently we're here a tier the Eastern Conference though, because

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free agency isn't over, but it's like kind of dead,

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and it's like we're poking RFA's like, God, just get

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your deals done. We know you're not going anywhere at

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this point, nless. Maybe your name is Jonathan Kaminga. But

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we're gonna tear the Eastern Conference. We're gonna do it live.

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You can comment. It's gonna be fun. I'm sure everyone's

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gonna agree with everything that.

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Speaker 2: We have to say.

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Speaker 1: But first, before we get started, Grant, how does it

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feel knowing that you reported with me conjointly on a

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trade about Lebron going to the Dallas that is clearly

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going to happen, Now that all these sites and blue

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check marks are picking it up and reporting it as such.

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Speaker 3: It's all been worth it. That's really what I feel like.

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We're just this whole thing, this whole time, We've just

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wanted to be insiders, and now you've spoken a trade

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into existence, So like, what are the percentage chants that

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this trade? Well, can you lay out the I mean,

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this isn't what this pod is supposed to be about,

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but just so people know what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Right, So there's something going We talked about it on

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the pod. I also wrote about it, but we went

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up with Lebron James trades. And the clue that it's

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not real is that the stuff that's going around is

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We're normally not the type of people that would say,

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oh no, like that's totally our thing.

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Speaker 2: Just being repackaged is some idea. The Utah Jazz.

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Speaker 1: Were involved, and they really didn't need to be. It

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was more trying to game it to figure out the

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Lakers books better by getting rid of Jared Vanderbilt. So

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the or the rumor, I can't even it's not a rumor.

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The aggregation that's being mispackaged that's going around is Dallas

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gets Lebron, the Lakers get PJ. Washington, Daniel Gafford, who

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is eligible to be traded even though he's not an extension.

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Klay Thompson, Naji Marshall Kyle Anderson and their own twenty

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twenty nine first round pick back the Jazz are getting.

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They're calling it picks. I had I think three second

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round picks going there, and they're taking on Jared Vanderbilt,

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who has those two extra years further more than Kyle

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Anderson left on his deal. That was the when I

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saw the not Lebron to the MAVs is not something

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that we created. But when I saw the package, I was.

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Speaker 2: Like, the Jazz didn't need to be there.

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Speaker 1: And if it does go through, I feel like we

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should get some sort of a commission or something like

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how does that work? But someone someone's got to have

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a trade bonus, and I would like part of it.

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Speaker 3: That's all I'm saying. It's just not even like a

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big part, just like would be fine. It probably a

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fifteen said.

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Speaker 2: Of that million dollars, that's fine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have no problem with that. No, I think

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it's great that uh uh. The combination of AI and

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a rampant aggregation market has turned a made up trade

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into a rumor that people actually have bought now and.

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Speaker 1: The other thing being texted about it from people that

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are just I know, in respect and what this is

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not like, so I was like, wow, this thing is

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I didn't realize it must have taken because we talked

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about it a while ago and I wrote about it

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a little bit ago. It was a slow like normally

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these things are picked up like that. This one's been

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a slow burn. So you heard it here first. Obviously

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we're it was. We were clearly reporting. We weren't just

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throwing idea. We weren't just asking questions like.

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Speaker 3: We normally do, which we do.

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Speaker 1: I have some questions about the Eastern Conference, though, okay,

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or you're just you're.

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Speaker 3: No, totally understand it and we're not gonna have any

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difficult discussions about it.

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Speaker 1: Is the king we were mentioning Jeremiah Fears based off

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what I've seen from him in summer league. I'm gonna say, no, uh.

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Speaker 3: It hasn't looked hasn't looked great. I saw two assists

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of ten turnovers, like twenty nine points on thirty something shots.

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Not great.

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Speaker 1: Some I honestly, I only read into summer league when

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it's good. I just that's the that's the that's the

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I mean think about summer league is when it's good,

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just read into it. But if he's a first year

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player if he was like a third year player and

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it's oh, okay, yeah, then well.

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Speaker 3: And he's like he's like built to be bad as

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a rookie, Like all of his all the things he's

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good at and all the things he's bad at are

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just like, that's gonna be a bad rookie, don't you dare?

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Speaker 1: Tell Troy Weaver and Joe Dumore's dat.

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Speaker 2: Don't you buy that?

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Speaker 3: I mean, they're just playing the long game.

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Speaker 1: So we started off the Eastern Conference pod talking about

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four Western Conference teams. Congratulations to us. Do you have

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any like criteria you were trying to follow? We have

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six tiers they'll be separated into, so like, any notes

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or quotes or concerns before we get started?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I probably should have a more uh like well

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defined rubric here, But I do feel better about it

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because you came up. I don't know where your what

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your tears look like. You didn't really discuss this too

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much beforehand. I think if I had to boil it down,

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I would just say I'm trying to split tea. I

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guess it just has to be like championship equity or

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like likelihood of making the finals, or which which really

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to me, is like a pretty sort this early. It's

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kind of a proxy for like how do you think

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the standings will shake out? You know, because you're sort

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of like you're saying the same thing whether you're tiering

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it based on like title equity or or like who's

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going to win the conference during the season. To me,

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it's like early enough that those are kind of the

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same thing. But we will have discussions about a couple

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of these teams where it's like, you know, they could

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they're finish in the conference, might not necessarily line up

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with what we think their title odds might be once

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the playoffs hit.

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Speaker 2: Do we need some type rule because we're gonna come

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to a consensus?

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Speaker 1: Should we implement a rule on the spot where do

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we each get like one or two vetos to where

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it's like you feel strongly about I want to put

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the knicks into your f which they're not. It's just

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dop and you're like, well, like, I'm gonna veto that

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they go into your eds.

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Speaker 3: I support this. I will not use my veto on

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the veto rule, all.

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Speaker 2: Right, So we're each going to get a veto. That'll

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be fun.

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Speaker 1: Uh, were ready to get started and I guess we

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could just pick We'll go back and forth on which teams.

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We're not gonna go alphabetically because that I don't think

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people will stay tuned to the end of that when

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you look at some of the teams in the East

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at the end of the alphabet. Let's get started here,

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grant you could pick the first team.

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Speaker 2: Who do you want to talk about?

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Speaker 3: Oh, we're just we're not gonna just go from the

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bottom up. We're just gonna pick a random team. Great.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well we could do that. You want to

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you want to start that?

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Speaker 3: I think you start from the bottom and then worked

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for Yeah, so we're in Tier F. This is our

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our our worst tier. Everybody's gonna have. I mean, this

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won't be a shock, I think. So let's I'll go.

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Let's go Wizards. They are unfortunately for them.

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Speaker 2: Although they don't we kind of around here, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: They're right where they want to be, right where they

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ought to be. I think this is just still very

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very far away. Obviously, you know. We like Koolibali, we

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like sar We like bub Carrington, Kaishan George, we like Tree,

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I mean like Trey Johnson. Looks interesting at least in

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Summer League. But this is like every one of those

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guys I mentioned, I think you don't get too far

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into like the the like give me the bio or

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give me the status report without hitting like, oh, there's

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like a real issue that this guy might not be good,

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you know, like Sar's scoring efficiency or like George's three

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point shooting being all over them, like they all have flaws.

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But I think generally speaking, we think Washington is gonna

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be bad. But that's kind of the plan. So you know,

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this isn't like we're not We're not killing them by

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putting them in the bottom tier. I don't think even

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Wizards fans have any illusions about how good this team

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will be. What do you have different Wizards thoughts. I

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mean that's I feel like we've kind of been pretty

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well aligned on them for a while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The thing about the Wizards is they're trying very hard

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to be bad, and I think they'll be successful. I

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was trying to think, like there's probably what one team

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that I could see being worse than them in the East,

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Like I just don't like, so that's.

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Speaker 3: Our disaster, right, like.

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Speaker 2: Our disaster, But is there a pathway towards them?

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Speaker 1: Like they already got rid and heone's gonna play a

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huge role Anewy, but like you already get rid of

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Kelly Link. If they decide to play like the older

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guys a lot like if Smart is still there in

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Middleton is still there and see, like those are still

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really good basketball players that I could see them being friskier,

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especially if you're gonna cake in like improvement from the

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young guys that you're like Alex Sars had some really

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good Summer League moments, especially like defensively, So I'm with you.

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I'm not making like a tier like s case for

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the Wizards right now. Well, like they just have some

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guys who could pop and then also some capable veterans

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that if they decide to if they get improvement from

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the young guys, but they also have these playable veterans,

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it gets tough they're gonna have. My point is they

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might have to make some moves to continue being as

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bad as they want for this season, was my point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And some of those moves might just be like, hey,

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Chris Middleton, you're getting You're just not gonna play that much.

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It may just it may be that kind of a

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move where it's like we just understand what we're doing

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here on both sides. I actually think I think there's

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two teams that like without disaster striking, although one of

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them might just the Charlotte and Brooklyn. I think they're

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both in this bottom tier. For me, I could see

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either of those teams being worse than Washington. Charlotte's maybe

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the one you'd bump on, just because, like, if we're

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saying no disasters allowed, then well, the LaMelo ball ankle

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injury feels pretty disaster, but does it because it's kind

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of like the expectation at this point that he's going

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to miss time. So there's like a fairly like mid

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range outcome for Charlotte in which they win twenty two

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games or something, you know what I mean. They have

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more talent in general. Also, they're trying to be bad too,

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so well, well they're sure they're taking their time, they're

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not they're not making win now moves, I guess is

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the more fair way to say it.

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Speaker 1: I think when you look at like having Collin sext

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In there, like the moves they've made this offseason, I

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could see them being really good on offense, especially if

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the Melo ball plays in fifty games, like the offense

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could legitimately be top ten, I think except for the fact,

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like what's the planet center right, Charlotte right now?

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Speaker 2: I support the Mark Williams trade was fine.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm not a Mark Williams guy overall, but it's

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like over like diabate, just like we're just hoping for

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him to like come in and make some serious waves here.

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Speaker 2: So I think they belong in this tier. I could.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to fall into the trap last year.

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It's oh, they got a lot of NBA guys on

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the roster, they're gonna be better. I got Cody Martin

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piled last season and I smashed They're over and that

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turned out poorly.

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Speaker 2: You're right about LaMelo. I think would this be the order?

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Speaker 1: So if we were to try to rank them within tears,

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Wizards still at the bottom with the Nets the Nets.

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The funniest synopsis I've seen to the Nets offseason is

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that they drafted five versions of this same player.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's hard to ignore

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that they went heavy on like I mean, if you're

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trying to be really bad, making it very likely that

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you're going to have a rookie on the ball a

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lot is a great way to do it, and they

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kind of have set themselves up for that with their drafts.

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So I do think I think Charlotte if we're really

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mini tiering this, which which we will do as we

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move up, but like you could put Charlotte in its

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own above Brooklyn and Washington. But I think, you know,

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all three of these teams are more likely to lose

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to let's see, to lose sixty games than they are

248
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to win forty, Like you know what I mean, that's

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a confusing way to put it.

250
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Speaker 2: But I don't even know.

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Speaker 1: So if we assume I don't even know what to

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make of the nets, like they're really testing like the

253
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limits of Jordi Fernandez being a good coach when you

254
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kind of look like, if we assume Cam Thomas is

255
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going to be back, they have their primary on ball

256
00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:11,320
guys are gonna be yegor Demon Cam Thomas, and I

257
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guess Michael Porter Junior, who's not really an on ball guy.

258
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At least you'll have plenty of information on the rookies.

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But man, that team, it almost felt like their read was, Okay,

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we thought we were really bad last year. We weren't bad. Enough,

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and that's not happening this year because you don't want

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to fall behind in the tanking race. And they're interesting

263
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because they don't own their twenty twenty seven first round pick,

264
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so like after next summ like at next summer, they

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might try to hit the turbo button a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well this so I mean framed another way, this

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is the year to be bad if they can do

269
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it right, like, because that twenty six pick is when

270
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you got a cash in. If you're going to cash

271
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in and you can't, there's no payoff for being really

272
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bad a third time, So this is when it needs

273
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to bottom out.

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Speaker 2: I think, ooh, we have a couple Hornets comments. I

275
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love this. Charlotte has some hope now at least.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think the Jeff Peterson lead front office

277
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is just I don't know that they've gotten every move right,

278
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but it's like their direction.

279
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Speaker 2: They're clearly playing the longer game. Starvell.

280
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Speaker 1: I'm a biased Hornets fan, but I really feel like

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thirty wins is a more reasonable outcome with the moves

282
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they have made, at least a tier per above maybe

283
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Brooklyn and Washington, like I think you could probably talk

284
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about and maybe this is a team we'll get into

285
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as we're fringing out the people, like they could. I

286
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could see the Hornets being a little Raptor Z just

287
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because the Raptors have better top end talent, but their

288
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roster doesn't necessarily make a ton of sense. So I

289
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could see them being like two teams that that collide.

290
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But yeah, I think the Hornet's direction is fine. I

291
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think the one move I might quibble about the most

292
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that they've made with this front office was the t

293
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John Salon pick.

294
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Speaker 2: Right, but well, like.

295
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Speaker 3: Well even for him, it's even he's so young, like ye,

296
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I think just like the eye test is scary and

297
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the numbers are awful, but like, I just don't watching

298
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him play. I don't quite understand the theory of like

299
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what he's supposed to be. But I'm trying to be

300
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better about not just just forming a judgment on a

301
00:13:02,039 --> 00:13:04,240
guy that's like played most of the year as a teenager.

302
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I think, or like he was one of the youngest

303
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players in that class, so it's like we're nowhere near

304
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knowing what he's gonna be.

305
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:13,279
Speaker 1: He might also benefit because I'm assuming that LaMelo ball

306
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,559
is gonna benefit, like as a playmaker even a score

307
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is just having more shooting around him, and that might

308
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be someone with t John Salan if you need to

309
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get him going downhill. Like, Okay, now you have Collin Sexton,

310
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you have Conkippole, you.

311
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Speaker 2: Have Leam McNeely.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me, Like, you just have a bunch of dudes

313
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that are more versatile than last year. So we'll see

314
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how that pans out. But I like the Hornet's direction

315
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going to next season. I don't like, could you win

316
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,159
thirty games and be the third worst team in the East.

317
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Speaker 2: No, that's too high, right.

318
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Speaker 3: No, I think you could do it because look like

319
00:13:43,039 --> 00:13:46,600
last year, so Washington won eighteen, Charlotte won nineteen, and

320
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then you jump all the way to the sixers at

321
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twenty four, all the way to twenty four, but Brooklyn

322
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had twenty six. So yeah, you could definitely win thirty.

323
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It'd be maybe a little bit unusual, And like thirty

324
00:13:57,519 --> 00:13:59,360
is a number that if you're headed towards that you

325
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probably try to nose dive to get, you know, make

326
00:14:02,159 --> 00:14:04,279
sure you don't hit thirty. Twenty five is better than

327
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thirty lottery position wise, probably, But yeah, I think I

328
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,840
think you could. I don't know like, I don't know

329
00:14:09,919 --> 00:14:11,399
what they want. I don't know if they want to

330
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,159
win thirty, you know what I mean. They've been so

331
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smart and delaying gratification that they if they're on pace

332
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,240
to be like a tenh seed, they might just shut

333
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,120
it down like that. That wouldn't be a shock.

334
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,840
Speaker 1: Jerry Lusa has if a healthy sophom LaMelo let a

335
00:14:23,919 --> 00:14:26,320
less talented team to a positive record with Mason Plumley's

336
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,679
starting center, don't sleep. Mason plummy might be their starting

337
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,879
center and gets back, so he's back. Charlotte can definitely

338
00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:36,080
get to thirty healthy. Your biggest issue, I mean, but

339
00:14:36,159 --> 00:14:39,519
it's a when LaMelo's involved, it's a pretty look if

340
00:14:39,559 --> 00:14:41,759
anyone If I don't know if any of these people

341
00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:44,200
fought like people should know how I feel about LaMelo

342
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,480
Ball specifically, I think he is so underrated and I

343
00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:49,200
would I would not never move him. If not never,

344
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,879
But like all the trade stuff, I'm holding on to them.

345
00:14:51,919 --> 00:14:53,519
Speaker 2: I think the contract is fine. I think the player

346
00:14:53,559 --> 00:14:54,639
is great, but.

347
00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:57,080
Speaker 1: Like we can't just ignore like this data with all

348
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,279
the the lower body injuries. Yeah, do you want to

349
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,200
take us through the start of our next tier?

350
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Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't know. Where to go. Here, I'll go

351
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,039
I'll start from what I guess is the bottom. Maybe

352
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I'll start from the drop.

353
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Speaker 2: Sorry, does it start the Drake song? Someone? Is it

354
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,600
from the bottom? We start from the bottom? Is that

355
00:15:14,639 --> 00:15:16,120
a DrAk song? Okay?

356
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Speaker 3: You should know that you're younger, you should know that. Uh,

357
00:15:19,879 --> 00:15:22,759
I'm gonna go the top of this next tier and

358
00:15:23,919 --> 00:15:25,279
we will discuss the Miami heat.

359
00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:28,639
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, just drag him out there for the mind.

360
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Speaker 3: I mean so, I'm just I just want to sort

361
00:15:32,679 --> 00:15:35,200
of anchor myself here. So thirty seven and forty five

362
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,039
last year, they had the Butler thing to deal with.

363
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,360
I think we and we got a Tyler Hero breakout,

364
00:15:42,879 --> 00:15:45,240
which even at the end of it, everybody was kind

365
00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:46,600
of like, is Tyler Hero good?

366
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:46,879
Speaker 2: Though?

367
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Speaker 3: Because of the targeting in the playoffs on defense and

368
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,519
like how valuable is this type of player? I would

369
00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:55,559
say Hero is about as valuable as that player type

370
00:15:55,639 --> 00:15:58,799
can be. You just have to admit that.

371
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,840
Speaker 1: He's clearly separated himself from like the Jordan Pools and

372
00:16:01,879 --> 00:16:03,279
the Simon Barrett's like.

373
00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Simons, Yeah yeah, all.

374
00:16:05,159 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 3: Those guys up for extensions around the same time. He definitely, man,

375
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,480
remember we should just talk about those guys altogether. There

376
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:13,639
was somebody else in that group.

377
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,279
Speaker 1: We had so many exercises that like preceding season of

378
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,240
just like who would you rather have for the time?

379
00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:20,879
Speaker 2: Who gets more money in an extension?

380
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,159
Speaker 3: Well, and the answers him, right. I think I think

381
00:16:23,159 --> 00:16:26,080
he's better than Pool, He's better than Simon's, he's better

382
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,679
than Barrett so. But then it's like, if he's your

383
00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:31,000
second best player, we saw where you top out at

384
00:16:31,039 --> 00:16:34,879
and I think Bam we learned too. He had a

385
00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:37,039
bad year just by his standards, but like, I think

386
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,360
we did get some confirmation that like, if Bam is

387
00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:42,200
your best player, you are sometimes going to be a

388
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,200
thirty seven and forty five team. Maybe you're gonna be

389
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,879
a you know, a forty five and thirty seven team,

390
00:16:46,919 --> 00:16:49,360
but you can't really get much above that. So this

391
00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:51,799
feels like a low tier given given the teams that

392
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,279
are just beneath it. But I'm just not seeing. Maybe

393
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,159
make the case if you want, like what's the reason

394
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,639
for Miami being significantly better than last year and not

395
00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:03,639
being in this tier?

396
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:06,160
Speaker 2: I don't know.

397
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,240
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe kohalil Ware pops, maybe Jim Hawkins Junior

398
00:17:10,279 --> 00:17:12,799
has sort of like a rethrow like throw back to

399
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:15,200
his rookie season, which is like an incredibly weird thing

400
00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:17,759
to say about anyone who's entering their their third year.

401
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,640
Speaker 3: Jovich could be better.

402
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,799
Speaker 1: Their their offense is the thing I graple with because

403
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,119
I liked the normal Powell trade for them, and he

404
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,359
gives you some of the well he should give you something.

405
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:29,920
He's getting older, he'll give you some of the rim

406
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,680
pressure you lost in Jimmy Butler. They still just don't

407
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,200
have that primary on ball guy. And like Tyler Hero,

408
00:17:35,319 --> 00:17:37,720
I think his improvement as a playmaker and making on

409
00:17:37,839 --> 00:17:40,880
ball decisions is big, but like he's a as dangerous

410
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,920
when he's the second guy that you need to create

411
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,200
things and where he can fly around away from the ball,

412
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,079
and like, I think we've kind of seen that Bam

413
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,279
can do some of that stuff, but the offensive numbers

414
00:17:51,279 --> 00:17:52,880
are just there in the past like three or four years,

415
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,440
when Jimmy Butler isn't on the floor, Miami's offense with

416
00:17:55,559 --> 00:17:59,119
Hero bam Adebayo has been underwhelmingly average.

417
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that it's like their peak, So I.

418
00:18:02,279 --> 00:18:04,519
Speaker 1: Don't I think people can point to the heat and

419
00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:07,720
say like they're just they need that central star, and

420
00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:10,559
I think that's fair at say, but how do you

421
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,880
get there without like do they have the like, who's

422
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,279
the mid season name aside from Yiannis, who it seems

423
00:18:16,279 --> 00:18:19,400
like everybody is waiting for. I don't even know if

424
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:22,720
if that type of player becomes available, are It feels

425
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,440
like they would need to be more in the territory of, oh,

426
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,160
we're willing to pay zach Lavine's contract too. I don't

427
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,640
know if he's the answer rather than oh, they had

428
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,319
the best offer for Jannis, Like they don't have even

429
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:34,920
if you put a hero on the table, they don't

430
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,160
have that level of assets. And so I kind of understand,

431
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,240
like Sean in the chat is saying, Miami needs a reset,

432
00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:46,119
no chance otherwise I don't disc I'm not there yet,

433
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,119
like because there's just they have some flexibility moving forward.

434
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,720
I was surprised they gave Davion Mitchell two guaranteed years,

435
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,559
but like, yeah, you could make that case pretty strong

436
00:18:55,599 --> 00:18:57,640
and say like no, it's trade hero trade bam, and

437
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,160
it's it's time to start over.

438
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 3: I think all we know for sure is that when

439
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,920
you have a player playing at the level that Jimmy

440
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,880
Butler did for a couple of postseason runs. Then then

441
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,039
Bam falls right into place where he ought to be,

442
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,079
and Hero has his value, and like even guys like

443
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,839
Duncan Robinson who's not there anymore but like he would

444
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,680
have major value. But all of that and the team's

445
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,759
really good and dangerous and nobody wants to play him,

446
00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:25,960
but all that's predicated on you have a guy. I

447
00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:28,079
can't say, like you have a Jimmy Butler. It's like

448
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,920
you have the version of Jimmy Butler that we had

449
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,559
to like really think hard about putting in like a

450
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,640
top five players that you'd want to build a title

451
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,839
contender around for like two full years, like he was

452
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,160
in that conversation. If he's not there, then the whole

453
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,640
thing is just everybody is jumped up to a role

454
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,119
that's like just slightly too big for what they can

455
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,279
handle like and be and be part of a really

456
00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:54,079
good team. So yeah, I think, like, I guess I'm

457
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,000
not there on I'm not ready to just like let's

458
00:19:56,079 --> 00:19:57,960
hit the red button type of thing. But it's like

459
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,079
you said it, I don't see the way towards getting

460
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:06,519
that next like peak Jimmy Butler type of guy, because

461
00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:09,039
they won't have the best offer for the next version

462
00:20:09,079 --> 00:20:11,440
of that that becomes available, and they like, they're too

463
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,160
good to get that guy in the draft, and they

464
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,559
don't wait long enough. You know who, They've had homegrown talent,

465
00:20:16,599 --> 00:20:19,160
but it's just like what they have left of that

466
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,880
is not good enough without an imported like superstar above.

467
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,319
They need a better player than they have. Like that's

468
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:26,480
that's kind of the simple way.

469
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,519
Speaker 1: And what's interesting is that I think they could have

470
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:32,000
benefited from a gap year this coming season where it's

471
00:20:32,039 --> 00:20:34,240
you don't you know, just put Hero and Bam on

472
00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:36,880
a maintenance program and lose and then maximize your draft

473
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,440
pick and then it's either a better trade asset or

474
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,200
a better prospect to develop. I think the Norman Powell

475
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,559
trade again, I liked that trade for them, but I

476
00:20:44,599 --> 00:20:46,240
think that kind of signals no, they're not going to

477
00:20:46,319 --> 00:20:48,200
do that unless they think that they could reroute him

478
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,400
for more value than they gave up. Jerry in the chat,

479
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,079
and I want to clear up a misconception here that

480
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,720
this is not Jerry specific. I've seen two big misconceptions,

481
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,559
but he says I think Miami is fine. I think

482
00:20:58,559 --> 00:20:59,839
next season is when they go for all to have

483
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:01,400
a alible cap space and will probably go for a

484
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,279
superstar level player. The two biggest misconceptions I've seen this

485
00:21:04,319 --> 00:21:07,319
offseason is that the Nuggets have permanently escaped the Second Apron,

486
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,519
which they have not Like if you think, unless you

487
00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:12,599
think that Christian Brown and Peyton Watson are gonna make

488
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,319
less than twenty five million dollars combined next year, the

489
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,359
Nuggets are gonna have Second Apron concerns.

490
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 2: And the heat their.

491
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,599
Speaker 1: Cap space is if Andrew Wiggins picks up his player option,

492
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,200
they're gonna have like twelve or thirteen million dollars. So

493
00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:27,599
if they want cap space, you either need to hope

494
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,440
that Wiggans opts out, which I guess isn't like is

495
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,319
I don't know, thirty plus million, like that's it's on

496
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:34,839
the border, like if he could get.

497
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:35,759
Speaker 2: More long term money.

498
00:21:35,759 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: But there will be more teams with cap space, So

499
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:40,559
I don't think they're guaranteed to have cap space, is

500
00:21:40,599 --> 00:21:42,279
my point. But I do think Jerry's right that this

501
00:21:42,319 --> 00:21:44,200
does seem like they're trying to set themselves up to

502
00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:47,119
go for it next summer, whether it's a trade, and

503
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,359
I think, honestly, you know what the big signal will

504
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,920
be for me, Tyler heroes extension eligible, I think October first.

505
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,960
But if he signs an extension, he can't be traded

506
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,400
this season because of the six month rule. So if

507
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,640
he doesn't get an extension, because it's not it's two years,

508
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,160
three years, one hundred and fifties the max about around there,

509
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,200
he wouldn't have to get the max. But like, if

510
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:06,799
you don't look at extending him the way that we

511
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,480
know how key players get extended, now, that would be

512
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,440
one where're like, oh are they like, because we've seen

513
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,160
a lot of stars get move mid season, like Fox

514
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,119
and Luke, I mean Luca, Anthony Davis obviously in the

515
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,759
same trade and star level like Pascal siakam og and Andobi.

516
00:22:22,079 --> 00:22:24,599
So if he doesn't get an extension, that's another thing

517
00:22:24,599 --> 00:22:26,160
I'll be clocking in Miami.

518
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good thing to keep an eye on.

519
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,640
Let's do let's go to another team in this tier

520
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,359
here trying I guess we'll just go in reverse order again.

521
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,720
So this is where I have the pacers. Uh, are

522
00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:41,599
you on the front of the pacers? No, they were

523
00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:44,720
actually behind the heat. I'm the heat or the to

524
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,440
ja huffs guy. Well, you know, I am a Jay

525
00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:50,440
huff guy, first of all, how dare you? I just,

526
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:51,880
you know, I don't know how much we need to

527
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,960
talk about this, Like you've lost two of your three

528
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,119
best players, one via trade, one via injury, and you

529
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,759
know that's just impossible to overcome. I think they'll still

530
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:06,759
play like an exciting brand of basketball that's fun to watch.

531
00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:09,839
The offense should be interesting, like I just I don't

532
00:23:09,839 --> 00:23:12,640
know what how you know, sort of diluted it might

533
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:18,000
be without Haliburt and without Turner spacing, but like they're

534
00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:20,200
not gonna tank, I don't think. Although they did get

535
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,519
that pickback, right, so like that's on the table.

536
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: Man, what a rough just series of events.

537
00:23:24,839 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 3: For the Pelicans something like yeah, good, that might have

538
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,400
been a choice pick to have and it was it

539
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,000
was like what just the value was like cut by

540
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,799
eighty five percent in like a week or two after

541
00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:38,720
they pulled that trade off. Yeah, I don't know, what

542
00:23:38,759 --> 00:23:39,759
do you think about the Pacers?

543
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 2: That was right?

544
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,079
Speaker 1: Jalen Green was the other one as ro hit I

545
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,559
rokeat apologies from mispronouncing. I think you're probably right to

546
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,960
there's I don't know they're so deep, But I'm just

547
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,079
like Tyre's Haliburton felt like kind of the piece that

548
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,359
ties it all together to where Okay, you can survive

549
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,400
stretches without him, but an entire season the thing that's

550
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,440
iffy for me. So if you're looking at the Heat

551
00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:03,839
or the Pacers, let's say like next season starts off

552
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,240
or they get to like December or whatever, and they're

553
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:08,960
not doing well, which your organization is more likely to

554
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:10,119
kind of throw in the towel.

555
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,559
Speaker 3: Well, probably my eight Well that's a good question. I mean,

556
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,640
probably Miami, right, like, just because we're talking about they

557
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,680
don't have the guy, the tear down is like a win,

558
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:23,880
not an if. So maybe they're the ones that just

559
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,880
pull the rip cord. But the Pacers, the Pacers could

560
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,759
capitalize though, and just be like, we're gonna look like

561
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,319
the fates destroyed us and then we cheaped out and

562
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,839
further destroyed ourselves. We might as well see what we

563
00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:36,720
can get out of this pick.

564
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think it would be smart for

565
00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:42,839
our of them to do so. But Indy's entire ethos

566
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:44,839
and I don't know if this is from Kevin Pritchard

567
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,480
or from Herb Simon's, it's just like we don't tank, right,

568
00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:49,279
and so I think I think Miami's the right handser,

569
00:24:49,319 --> 00:24:52,440
even though pat Riley doesn't rebuild, but like he feels

570
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,400
like someone who would stomach sort of like a tough,

571
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,240
tighter temporary window, and the Pacers just feel like the

572
00:24:58,279 --> 00:24:58,759
goal is.

573
00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: To chug a law.

574
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 1: But I mean, if we're being honest, for both of

575
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,480
those teams, the answer is because look at where they are.

576
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,599
If you want to say they belong up a tier, okay, cool,

577
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,880
like congratulations, you're still on the bottom half of.

578
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 2: The Eastern Conference.

579
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: Uh, Like one of at least one of them, I

580
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,079
think is gonna end up going through a gap year,

581
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,920
even if they don't hit that button until it's late.

582
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it could be an unintentional gap year, which

583
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,599
is not the kind you want, like because that's just like, well,

584
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,480
we turns out we weren't so good. We didn't plan

585
00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:25,799
for this.

586
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: If Indy goes for it the entire year though, Like,

587
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,720
I just what is their ceiling?

588
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,319
Speaker 2: I know you have, we have them in this tier,

589
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,279
and I'd probably agree you could quibble over whether.

590
00:25:35,079 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: They belong in front of Miami or not. Yeah, sure,

591
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:40,759
but I'm just looking at like you really need if

592
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:42,240
if I wanted to believe that they were still like

593
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,640
a forty five win team or something without Tyree's Halbert,

594
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,319
Like I'm trying to think of what needs to happen,

595
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,759
and I'm like, well, the center position is murky now,

596
00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:51,079
like there's just all there's It feels like there's gonna

597
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:53,519
be too much James Wiseman, Isaiah Jackson, Jay Huff for

598
00:25:53,559 --> 00:25:56,319
me to feel completely comfortable there. But like, is it

599
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,799
Benn mcmathrin pops because he's getting all these additional sort

600
00:25:59,839 --> 00:26:00,440
of on ball.

601
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,079
Speaker 2: I just I don't know.

602
00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:05,039
Speaker 3: I Mean, that's the thing, if you really want to

603
00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:08,400
be optimistic, you can say, man, there's a lot of

604
00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:12,359
room for Matherin, for Walker, for I don't know, even topping,

605
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,960
like got like nemhard to just explore the space right,

606
00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:19,519
Like they're gonna by default they're gonna have just bigger roles,

607
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:21,599
and Matherins kind of stands out as a guy that

608
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,279
might really have a bigger role, especially offensively. So like

609
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,759
if those guys all get better, yeah, forty five maybe,

610
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:30,039
I mean they only won fifty last year that the

611
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:32,240
playoff run, it's easy to forget was just like I

612
00:26:32,279 --> 00:26:34,640
don't know, I kept picking against them every round, like just.

613
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: Well they were on a tear from like basically descent,

614
00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:39,119
like when manager Nemhar came back, they were like the

615
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,119
fifth best team in the NBA or whatever.

616
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 3: Isn't that another thing to consider as like I don't

617
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:46,680
know what the record was. Were they ten and fourteen

618
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:49,319
or something at one point and Haliburton wasn't looking good

619
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,759
and every the narrative was so easy of like, yeah,

620
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,920
lightning in a bottle last postseason, this is actually the

621
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,759
real Haliburton, you know. That turned out to be wrong,

622
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,240
But that stretch did prove that, like if Halliburton's not great,

623
00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:05,720
the Pacers aren't good, like so, I mean he's not

624
00:27:05,759 --> 00:27:07,480
gonna be there at all. So I don't know how

625
00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:09,680
you recover from that, even if you do get like

626
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,720
steps forward from a bunch of guys.

627
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,519
Speaker 1: This is like, because I'm looking at the team that

628
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:16,680
I want to talk about next, this is like the

629
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,119
impossible tier to where I think that you could talk

630
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,039
me into like these teams bottoming out of skyrocking. So

631
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:23,240
I'm gonna talk about the Toronto Raptors, who I want

632
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,440
to see. If you agree, I would put them in

633
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:25,079
front of both.

634
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,599
Speaker 2: Of these teams. I mean, they steel coming on.

635
00:27:30,079 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 3: I'm not ready to veto. They're in this tier for me,

636
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,599
so I can't. It's hard for me to Well, maybe

637
00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:37,400
make your case, and I'm gonna see if there's any

638
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,160
particular parts that stand out as veto worthy.

639
00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:43,759
Speaker 1: I think that we're over I think that we're overthinking

640
00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:46,799
the whole. This is becoming very there's only one BALI

641
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,519
for me, and I just I don't think that there's

642
00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:53,079
a limit to how many val like net positive on

643
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,480
BALLD decision makers you could have. And while this spacing

644
00:27:55,599 --> 00:27:58,960
isn't great, having good on bold decision makers can counter that.

645
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,240
I also think two things are being underrated for them.

646
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:05,640
On offense, maybe actually three. This is probably the biggest question.

647
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,599
Emanuel Cookie has not been healthy since he got there.

648
00:28:07,759 --> 00:28:09,839
He's one of just the best when you in terms

649
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,720
of off the dribble and off the ball three point shooting,

650
00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:15,519
he blends that as good as anyone in the league.

651
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: Basically ie not.

652
00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: Steph Curry t here obviously sure, Darko Ryakovic very creative

653
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,440
with his offense and the way that they've used r J.

654
00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 2: Barrett since he got there.

655
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,319
Speaker 1: I think they can figure out ways to maximize what

656
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,279
will be confined spacing. And then the other big thing

657
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,279
is Bred and Ingram did a better job last year

658
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,839
with his three point volume in New Orleans. I don't

659
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,960
think that, and we've seen him have better seasons like

660
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,440
in terms of volume from three point range. I don't

661
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,720
think he's gonna be shooting like five corner threes in

662
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:47,799
game and just camping out there or anything. But I

663
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,680
really believe that when you have like Toronto's level of

664
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,039
decision makers, when you look at specifically Scotty Barnes and

665
00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:56,279
Bred and Ingram, that's a really good start.

666
00:28:56,519 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: There's with Jaka pertl there.

667
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you'd want more of a spacing center, but

668
00:29:01,119 --> 00:29:03,119
like there's a lot of IQ and good screening there.

669
00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:06,039
And then you do have Grady Dick, you do have

670
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:09,880
Jamison Battle like now the Colin Murray Boyles. Thing of

671
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,559
it all is, I just don't expect to necessarily to

672
00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:14,079
play a huge role, at least not with the core lineup,

673
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:15,920
So you need to make sure there's enough shooting like

674
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,519
that's certainly a concern, But there's enough younger players that

675
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:21,599
I think you could say, like Scotty Barnes could still

676
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,759
get this feels like not make or break, but a

677
00:29:23,839 --> 00:29:26,640
very tell tale year for Scotty Barnes, and I'm sort

678
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,880
of betting on they're gonna be the team that will

679
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,519
continue going for it, I guess longer than Miami or

680
00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:36,039
Indiana where it feels like their floor can come out

681
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:38,079
from under them. So it might be a spicy pick,

682
00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:40,519
but I think I'm in love with a lot of

683
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:43,680
the Raptors as individual players, and I think that we're

684
00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:48,079
kind of over thinking, Well, they're definitely gonna be less

685
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:49,160
than the sum of their parts.

686
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 3: I think that's all fair. And I think just as

687
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,480
you go through, here's what I run up against is

688
00:29:56,519 --> 00:30:00,000
one we haven't seen their main guys together just because

689
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:02,880
Ingram didn't play quickly has been hurt. So that's that's

690
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,519
a that's sort of a sticking point for me. The

691
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,400
I think you have to acknowledge that, Like if you

692
00:30:09,519 --> 00:30:12,279
just go down the starting five and say it's a

693
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,599
quickly barrett Ingram, Barnes Perle, like those are five NBA starters,

694
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,079
Like you know, I don't know where you'd rank them,

695
00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:21,000
but they're all like they're pretty good. And then like

696
00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:24,079
we also we like Agbajie. We think Grady Dick's got something,

697
00:30:24,119 --> 00:30:28,039
maybe Walter Pop's, like there's if Chris Bouche is back,

698
00:30:28,039 --> 00:30:30,039
we have to move them up a tier. First of all, they.

699
00:30:30,079 --> 00:30:32,319
Speaker 1: Go to I honestly, I was going to move them

700
00:30:32,359 --> 00:30:34,240
down to F because that contract's not done yet.

701
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,079
Speaker 3: It was going on right, So, like, I definitely you

702
00:30:38,119 --> 00:30:41,240
can't deny that there is like a fair amount of

703
00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:43,200
like they got a lot of guys that, if we're

704
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,680
letter grading, like Quickly is like a B minus, you know,

705
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,119
and like Ingram's maybe a bee and Barnes is like

706
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,039
a B plus with So there's a lot of B

707
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,720
range guys. The sticking point for me or the other

708
00:30:54,759 --> 00:30:56,640
sticking point is just like the fit and like how

709
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,960
does this actually work functionally on offense? Defense? Like okay,

710
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,799
I think they should be fairly solid, but like I

711
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,680
just it feels like the kind of logic you'd use

712
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,720
when you're putting together like a dream team, and it's

713
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,839
like you can't just put a bunch of guys that

714
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,599
are good. You have to like actually think about who

715
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,559
fits or at least I mean that doesn't always happen,

716
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:18,680
but you know what I mean, it's like an all

717
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,880
star team versus an Olympic team. I want to see it.

718
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,160
I do think it's fair though, because we like just

719
00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:29,039
on a talent basis, Like I don't think Miami or

720
00:31:30,079 --> 00:31:34,119
Indy has like as many like Oh, that guy's a

721
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,440
very good starter type players, as as maybe Toronto does.

722
00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:39,799
I'm just hung up on I'm not using a veto

723
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,920
is the short short answer here, but I got some

724
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:43,440
hang ups.

725
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,079
Speaker 2: Well, I'm dying at this comment.

726
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: I'm willing to put my life savings on the Raptors

727
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,599
being better than both the Heat and Pacers next year,

728
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,079
as long as they're relatively healthy.

729
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: I'm not willing to do that.

730
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:57,559
Speaker 1: And because I'm not wondering if I'm miscalculating the whole

731
00:31:57,599 --> 00:32:01,039
messau Jerry leaving, does that make the office more likely

732
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:03,599
to not that they would start over, but like, are

733
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:06,559
we gonna see RJ and Ingram get? I mean, they

734
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:09,240
love yacht, they're obsessed. They don't love they're obsessed with

735
00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:12,200
yaka Pernos. So he's not going anywhere and if and

736
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,319
if he does, they'll probably just reacquire him in about

737
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:18,720
a year. So I guess I wonder if I'm underweighting that,

738
00:32:19,119 --> 00:32:21,240
which makes me But I also don't trust the Heat

739
00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:24,119
or the Pacers enough, especially when Miami is so like,

740
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,240
we know the Pacers won't have their best player all year,

741
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,480
and then Miami is just everything there just feels like

742
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:33,480
a placeholder maybe except for mam so I could probably

743
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,440
be talked into like would you put the Raptors at

744
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,039
the bottom of that? Like we're we're not done with

745
00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:39,319
this tier yet, but would you put them at the

746
00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:40,039
bottom of this tier?

747
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,359
Speaker 3: You know, there's the team the next team we'll talk about,

748
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:44,359
I think is pretty firmly at the bottom for me,

749
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,240
just just because the ceiling isn't what any of these

750
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:53,039
other frankly, any of these three teams have. But actually,

751
00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:54,640
you know, you've kind of talked me into it. I

752
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,720
do think like, would I think maybe the floor for

753
00:32:57,799 --> 00:33:00,200
too could Is it fair to say that Toronto's floor

754
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,519
might be higher than you know, because we talked about

755
00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:07,160
like both the Pacers and Heat are fairly good candidates

756
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,200
to just like, oh, we're gonna steer into the skid

757
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,400
if things go sideways like Toronto. I think, like, what's

758
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:16,400
what win total barring injuries like up and down the roster,

759
00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:19,160
would you say like they're gonna win at least x

760
00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:22,039
like Toronto's not gonna be a twenty two win team,

761
00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:25,000
Like that's there's no way, Like, if everybody's healthy, it's

762
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:26,400
in the high thirties.

763
00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:28,359
Speaker 1: Right, I was gonna say, thirty seven feels like their

764
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,319
floor if everybody's healthy. I think that's with the heat

765
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,960
I could see there as being lower and the Pacers

766
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,599
it's just the not having Tyre's almburtn of it all.

767
00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:39,480
I just for the I don't know what to make

768
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,279
of that. But I also I'm starting to talk myself out.

769
00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:43,839
I'm gonna leave it there because I do believe, but

770
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,079
they're one of the teams. It's them, the Pelicans and

771
00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:48,839
the Hornets that I'm always just higher on than consensus apparently,

772
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,960
so I can. I'm wondering if I'm doing it again,

773
00:33:51,559 --> 00:33:53,559
like because oh, we could see the heat and the

774
00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:55,599
Pacers throwing it in, but the Raptors won't.

775
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't the Raptors do that?

776
00:33:57,279 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: Because the Raptors have like fifty guys on long term contray.

777
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:02,480
It's just like, what is throwing it in look like?

778
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,880
And they're not all positive value necessarily. I think we

779
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,519
would agree that like the team construction. I like the

780
00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:10,679
team construction a little bit less than just in terms

781
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,800
of like the money and the years that they've given

782
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:13,599
some of these guys.

783
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 2: Uh.

784
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 3: That concerns me more than like how good is this

785
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,159
team gonna be this year? You know, like long term.

786
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:23,679
I don't love like other than Barnes, Like where's where's

787
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:27,119
the foundation here? I think that's fine there and then

788
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:32,559
we we should definitely well, hey, we'll see manifesting.

789
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: The podcast Eurostep Podcast Network Manifesting bucks up to the

790
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:35,840
B tier.

791
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 2: Let's see how I let's see how that goes. We're

792
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:38,360
coming up.

793
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 3: Well, there's only one there's one more team in this

794
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,400
tier and it does start with a bee, but it

795
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,519
is the bulls uh and same yeah bottom, same story

796
00:34:48,519 --> 00:34:51,679
as always, like just unambitious that did we have? We

797
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:57,079
talked about the new deals for carn Karnisovus or Carnishevus.

798
00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:59,800
I'd never pronounced it right, And Billy Donovan as just

799
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,400
like ownership saying like surveying the last few years and

800
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,079
be like, fellas, just keep it up. This is exactly

801
00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:09,960
like great job. No notes?

802
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 2: Uh did you was your read on it?

803
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: The Billy Donovan one, I'm just sort of like I

804
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,280
don't know that he's done anything wrong there and who

805
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,719
is Like you might say, if they were rebuilding, go

806
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,639
hire a first timer. But I had more of a

807
00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:25,159
problem with the Ak extension because if you're not gonna

808
00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:27,320
announce it, look what happened with I know it took

809
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,440
a while for it to come out, but like there

810
00:35:29,519 --> 00:35:32,159
was pomp and circumstance for Kobe Autman getting a deal

811
00:35:32,199 --> 00:35:36,039
with the Charnaler. So they're clearly embarrassed or at least

812
00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:38,679
aware of what the sentiments are gonna be from the

813
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:39,800
fan base and analysts.

814
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: And so it's you hit it like it's just if you're.

815
00:35:42,119 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: Doing that, maybe it's time to take a step back,

816
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,599
reflect internalize some of the stuff that's happening. But this

817
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,079
organization is never gonna because I thought about, like, well,

818
00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:53,559
why aren't they just in the F tier because it's

819
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,360
you know why they're not the F tier because they're

820
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,920
not gonna trade Kobe watright, they're not gonna trade boots

821
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,960
because they're not that kind of fucking team.

822
00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: They don't think that.

823
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,159
Speaker 3: Way, right they are, They're they have the narrowest band

824
00:36:06,159 --> 00:36:09,199
of outcomes I think of any team we're gonna talk about,

825
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,440
unless it's like we get all the way to the top,

826
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,000
and it's like, well, the Calves will win between fifty

827
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,079
seven and sixty three games or something like that's pretty narrow.

828
00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:19,519
But like the Bulls are gonna be in the high

829
00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:23,760
thirties to low forties and I just see no way

830
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,199
that that they I mean injury, sure, the low end whatever,

831
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,960
but like the ceiling of the ceiling is just forty four, like,

832
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,480
which is just where it's always been, and we hate it.

833
00:36:33,559 --> 00:36:36,440
And I just don't understand how as an ownership group

834
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,000
you'd say, like this again, more of this, this is

835
00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:42,400
what we want, Like we want a play in loss

836
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,039
and everybody to just like be mad because we've picked

837
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:47,000
twelfth again. It just I wants this.

838
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,159
Speaker 1: I almost want this is one of those situations where

839
00:36:49,159 --> 00:36:51,960
I would welcome being wrong because if they traded Kobe

840
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,119
White and Vucevic, like, they're probably the worst team in

841
00:36:56,119 --> 00:36:57,840
the East at that point. I know they would still

842
00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,719
have Josh Giddy assuming here is, but they're probably the

843
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,760
worst eat Like, it's not Brooklyn, it's not Washing that's Charlote.

844
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,519
Speaker 2: Would think it would be Chicago, No, there is.

845
00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:06,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, they would definitely be in the bottom tier. I

846
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:08,239
don't think there'd be any argument for them to be

847
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:09,199
where they are now.

848
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,079
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you the Josh Giddy situation though,

849
00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:16,199
do you think that's because they just gave Patrick Williams

850
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,480
five years ninety million a player off that deal was

851
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,840
not out there for like, even a four year deal

852
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,280
like that at that level was not out there for him.

853
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,039
Do you think that could be a signal along with okay,

854
00:37:26,039 --> 00:37:29,280
they did finally move on from Zach Lavine, could that

855
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,000
be a signal that maybe they are thinking being more

856
00:37:33,039 --> 00:37:34,920
forward thinking to where Oh they looked at the market,

857
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,400
they where's Josh Getty getting money from?

858
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,199
Speaker 2: We're gonna squeez him?

859
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: Or you just sort of we need to see the

860
00:37:39,079 --> 00:37:41,960
number before we go talking about the posts having forethought.

861
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that probably should be the reaction. I think, like,

862
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,599
I don't know, it's like a fool me once thing,

863
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,119
like they have to be aware of the heat that

864
00:37:51,199 --> 00:37:55,960
the Patrick Williams contract, you know, sent towards them. I mean, yeah,

865
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,559
I think I need to see the number still, because

866
00:37:57,559 --> 00:38:00,199
if if we wait all this time in Giddy gets

867
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,840
thirty a year, which seems like impossible, but if that's

868
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,039
what happens, then yeah, we'll have to all reserve judgment

869
00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:07,559
until then.

870
00:38:09,199 --> 00:38:12,199
Speaker 1: Eurostep Ak extension might be the worst transaction of the summer.

871
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,039
Speaker 2: Maybe just didn't. Wasn't the extension like two.

872
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: Years ago or something now that we wound out like

873
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,559
after the fact, grant this one's for you from row It.

874
00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:24,519
How about a double sign and trade? Giddy for Kamingo

875
00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:26,599
who says no. I feel like this is a personal attack.

876
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 3: I say no. I say that it's not worth it.

877
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,159
I think because the Warriors have to. I'm pretty sure

878
00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:37,880
if the Warriors don't do some other stuff and they

879
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,599
do execute a sign and trade, they're gonna get hard

880
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:44,599
capped and not be able to take on Al Horford

881
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:47,039
into the Mini mid level I think, or something weird

882
00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:50,199
like that happens. So I've pivoted a little bit on

883
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,360
my COMINGU sign and trade desires.

884
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you why the Warriors say no, because

885
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,599
it would involve doing anything whatsoever, and they're currently just

886
00:38:58,639 --> 00:38:59,679
not going to do that.

887
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 3: They're just sitting there waiting and just like waiting for

888
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,599
Kminga's reps to call like once a week and they

889
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:06,639
ask like, so you get an offer shit yet, and

890
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:09,480
they're like no, they're like cool. Well, check back in

891
00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:11,039
later see what happens.

892
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:18,039
Speaker 1: Spicy question from Okay, okay, Kendrick Perkins or Drake Powell.

893
00:39:18,199 --> 00:39:21,039
Speaker 3: I don't know a lot about Drake Powell. I'm gonna

894
00:39:21,039 --> 00:39:21,760
go Drake Powell.

895
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 2: I hope people at least get that bit. Do you

896
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,559
want to take us? What tier? Are we out? We're

897
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:26,840
done with?

898
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 3: We We're out of the D tier. We've moved on.

899
00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:33,199
It only gets trickier to me. I feel like, all right,

900
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,679
I'm gonna start. Oh, I think we'll disagree on this,

901
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,079
although I'm not again, I'm not anchored to the order

902
00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:41,000
within the tears, but I would like to discuss the

903
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,840
Detroit Pistons. Please, they're in this.

904
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,519
Speaker 1: Tier, Okay, I need to, Like, I don't know what

905
00:39:45,559 --> 00:39:47,039
I want to use my veto on. You haven't used

906
00:39:47,079 --> 00:39:50,559
yours yet either. This is the the tension is mounting everybody.

907
00:39:50,119 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 3: Well, do we have to use our veto?

908
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: Like?

909
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 3: Can't we just get along?

910
00:39:53,519 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 2: Oh? I'm using my veto, even if it's just to

911
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:55,760
spite you.

912
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,519
Speaker 3: I'm okay, great, I do like the spikee veto. Okay, Dan,

913
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:04,440
are the Pistons any better this year than last year?

914
00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:07,320
If you if you exclude the organic growth and just

915
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:10,599
really it's a question about you swap more or less

916
00:40:10,679 --> 00:40:14,760
Simoni Fontechio for Duncan Robinson, Jade and Ivy is healthy? Uh?

917
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,159
And what they did some Oh, Paul Reid is back

918
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,199
and Karris Lavert who if Jade and Ivy is healthy, Like,

919
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,519
I'm not sure how much utility Karroslvert has he has

920
00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:26,239
some Is this a better team? And if so, like

921
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,599
to what degree? And again they blew expectations away last

922
00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:32,320
year obviously, so so keep that in mind.

923
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: I actually think and this is easier to say after

924
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,119
the season. Fontechio just had I think Duncan Robinson's like

925
00:40:38,159 --> 00:40:40,880
a noticeable upgrade from that spot. He's showing the ability

926
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,800
to do some stuff inside the arc. I think the

927
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,719
movement shooting is a lot better. And just as like

928
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,000
when you knew that Malik Beasley wasn't coming back or

929
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:52,360
he's dealing with those like off the court issues, I think,

930
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,519
like you kind of there's a chance that you come

931
00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:57,079
out as a net even while losing what was one

932
00:40:57,079 --> 00:40:59,159
of the what three most valuable floor spacers in the

933
00:40:59,199 --> 00:41:01,840
leaguet year or whatever. So that's a big deal to

934
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,159
me the question of if they're better, it comes down

935
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:08,360
to internal improvement. For me, I'm probably a little bit

936
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,639
higher on the Karroslvert acquisition than you. I think he's

937
00:41:10,679 --> 00:41:13,000
shown more as an off ball guy and even defender.

938
00:41:13,159 --> 00:41:15,519
And I think the way that Jamie Bickerstaff just is

939
00:41:15,559 --> 00:41:17,239
able to coax defense out of guys it went like

940
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,320
we saw it with Carselvert in Cleveland actually under him.

941
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: That would give me hope.

942
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,079
Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, I don't think that they're like

943
00:41:26,159 --> 00:41:28,119
a lot better if they if they're gonna get a

944
00:41:28,159 --> 00:41:31,320
lot better, it's because Kay Cunningham got better, Asar Thompson,

945
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,840
Ron Hollins had some like like at least opening Summer

946
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,440
League had some nasty moments. So I think you could

947
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,119
say that they will get better. But they didn't do

948
00:41:38,159 --> 00:41:40,559
anything I guess that would justify saying, hey, they're gonna

949
00:41:40,599 --> 00:41:43,960
be like a forty nine win team or something next year.

950
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,559
But that's also in some ways, isn't that encouraging, Like

951
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:49,199
they didn't do anything that was we that would suggest

952
00:41:49,199 --> 00:41:51,719
they read too much into what happened last.

953
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,119
Speaker 3: Well, that's a great point, and they didn't. I mean

954
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,960
Beasley sort of not being bring back a ble it

955
00:41:58,199 --> 00:41:59,920
made this a little easier, but like they didn't been

956
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:02,199
over backwards, like we have to make sure Shrewder comes

957
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:03,960
back well, like what how do we pull that off?

958
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,920
Like they didn't freak out about hardaway Junior. They're just like, yeah,

959
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:10,519
you know, we we have between Ivy coming back and

960
00:42:10,519 --> 00:42:13,280
getting LeVert, like there's enough secondary ball handling, like we're

961
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,519
gonna be fine. So I do think that's a fair

962
00:42:15,519 --> 00:42:19,360
point that, like you see teams in this position swing

963
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,079
a little bigger, because especially teams that had been in

964
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:24,400
the wilderness like Detroit had for so long, and then

965
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,039
they get this like very strong playoff showing like relative

966
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:31,679
to expectations and Cave Cunningham kind of like like all

967
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,440
boxes checked as far as like reasonable and slightly above

968
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,880
reasonable expectations and then they swing big. So I do

969
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,159
think it's somewhat encouraging that they didn't do that. I

970
00:42:41,519 --> 00:42:43,599
just yeah, I think I think to answer my own question,

971
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,039
if the Pistons are better and based on how I

972
00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:48,039
have it, what if they were the sixth seed last year,

973
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,000
I think I have them ranked fifth in the East

974
00:42:51,079 --> 00:42:56,000
right now. If we're actually ranking I think, like I

975
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:57,920
think they are going to be a little better, but

976
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,440
it's just because of the young guys they have will improve.

977
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,360
It's not so doesn't that allow less to do with

978
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,800
Lavert and that kind of thing?

979
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: The what do you view as the because it's not

980
00:43:07,519 --> 00:43:09,239
like Cade will get better. But he's not like a

981
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,679
swing piece like you made the all Mnbia, He's who

982
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:12,280
is the swing?

983
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,599
Speaker 2: Is it a Sar? Is it Ron holld Is it Jay?

984
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:15,599
And Ivy? Like who is it?

985
00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: Because it's probably not Jollen Duran? Like who is the

986
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,840
swing swing piece for them this year?

987
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 3: Who's I mean? I think it because I to say

988
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,960
it's a Sar would be to say, like, well he's

989
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,719
gonna become a good three point shooter or something like,

990
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,559
And I just don't see that happening this year. I

991
00:43:31,559 --> 00:43:33,159
think he's just gonna be great at what he's great

992
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:36,159
at and we'll for a while just be limited otherwise.

993
00:43:36,599 --> 00:43:40,000
Is it crazy to say Ivy because like he before

994
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,360
he got hurt, they only played thirty games I think

995
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,960
it was, but made forty percent of his threes. We're

996
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,280
sort of, you know, we we talked about him a

997
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,559
fair amount, like he's not the ideal cunning Ham compliment,

998
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,360
but like it's getting closer just because the shot was falling,

999
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,199
and like you can use him to run second, you know,

1000
00:43:57,199 --> 00:43:59,480
all that stuff we've talked about with him forever. If

1001
00:43:59,559 --> 00:44:03,239
he's that are slightly better, like maybe it's him, because

1002
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,719
I don't, I don't know, I don't. I don't look

1003
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,599
at anybody else really and say, like, you know, Ron

1004
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:10,280
Holland becomes like a thirty minute game guy, Like that's

1005
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,719
not happening yet either. I don't think the next team,

1006
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,719
so I would put them below the Pistons.

1007
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 2: In the Celtics.

1008
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,519
Speaker 1: There's a chance that they could still be really good,

1009
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:24,159
but like the big man rotation is meh at the moment.

1010
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,199
It seems like they might be opening to making more

1011
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,639
trades that would slash their payroll, and so it feels

1012
00:44:28,679 --> 00:44:31,880
like Anthony Simons won't finish the season in Boston, especially

1013
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,440
asn't expiring, and especially.

1014
00:44:33,079 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: If they seem like the team.

1015
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 1: Now, if I'm Dame, what I would do is I

1016
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,000
would wait, because your bird rights will still if you

1017
00:44:39,039 --> 00:44:42,360
sign in like Jet like in March versus signing now,

1018
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,320
your bird rights you'll still get the early bird rights

1019
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,079
stuff by being on a team for two years. So

1020
00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:48,000
I'm gonna wait and survey the league if there's a

1021
00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:50,199
chance he's coming back, and maybe the Celtics aren't gonna

1022
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:52,320
play late in the season. I think they're gonna get

1023
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,920
Dame though, and then so like that kind of diminishes

1024
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,760
the long term value of having Simons, and so I

1025
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,880
think they're gonna make more move and then shut because

1026
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,239
this is an organization that does operate with forethought, especially

1027
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,280
with Brad Stevens installed there. I think that they're going

1028
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,960
to have a true gap year. It's not gonna be

1029
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:11,360
on the level of trying to be as bad as

1030
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,559
the Nets or the Jazz, but they're gonna see the

1031
00:45:13,559 --> 00:45:16,519
opportunity because they have their own first round pick this year,

1032
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,800
They're gonna see the value in doing that. And so

1033
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,079
I think that we're gonna see if they're not traded.

1034
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,039
Jayleen Brown, Derek White, like, those guys are going to

1035
00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:26,719
get shut down at some point, and so even putting

1036
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,840
them in see I thought about putting them in the DTRE,

1037
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,559
but that's just they have. If those guys are gonna

1038
00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:33,199
play at all, like they're still just kind of too

1039
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:34,920
good to be there, I think, yeah, I.

1040
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 3: Think you could make I was trying to sort of

1041
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,679
figure out where I thought the Celtics raided just to

1042
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,599
say relative to the Pistons, for example, or even Toronto

1043
00:45:43,039 --> 00:45:46,599
just on like a talent basis right, because you're subtracting Tatum,

1044
00:45:46,679 --> 00:45:50,800
you're subtracting Holiday, you're subtracting Horford, you're subtracting porzingis like,

1045
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,519
that's a lot going out the door. I still think

1046
00:45:54,559 --> 00:45:57,639
between like Brown and White and Prichard and Simon's for

1047
00:45:57,679 --> 00:46:01,199
as long as he's there, Like the big man rotation

1048
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,079
is really bad. Somebody Yeah, Rohit was pointing out like

1049
00:46:05,199 --> 00:46:07,320
it might be the worst big man rotation in the league.

1050
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,719
Like not an exaggeration based on what's there right now.

1051
00:46:11,159 --> 00:46:15,079
I still I actually think like even if you believe, okay,

1052
00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:17,280
it's about equal with a team like the Pistons, which

1053
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,719
I think is a that's a debate that what you

1054
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,880
said about, Like, I mean, what is Boston playing for

1055
00:46:24,679 --> 00:46:27,000
And the answer is like, not a lot this year.

1056
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:31,400
The odds of them kind of turning the tank on

1057
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,679
are just higher than they would be for most of

1058
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,519
the teams we've mentioned so far. So I think you

1059
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,000
I think it's fair to put them below the Pistons.

1060
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: I also think like given just the level of stuff

1061
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,800
Jalen Brown's dealt with, especially in his lower body, Like,

1062
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,960
take the opportunity I go through on the a partial season, right.

1063
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:52,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, I mean he's had He's had plenty of

1064
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:55,800
long postseasons for sure. Yeah, and that's another factor. Okay,

1065
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,000
we got to add a team to this tier, do we?

1066
00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:01,840
I want to save this team to talk about last?

1067
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,119
Let's go, let's throw the bucks up? How about that?

1068
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 2: There? Are you better?

1069
00:47:06,039 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: So I'm letting you know that I'm using a veto

1070
00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:10,960
on one of these two teams that are talking because

1071
00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:13,159
I'm curious as to why you have the bucks I'm

1072
00:47:13,199 --> 00:47:14,960
assuming at the top of the ctier relative to the

1073
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,199
teams we've already talked about.

1074
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 3: I actually have them a third in this tier.

1075
00:47:19,079 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: If if, oh, you're gonna have so, can I Actually

1076
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:27,239
my question to you before you start, how do you

1077
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,880
have them that low unless you're under the assumption that

1078
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,920
Yannis isn't finishing the season there.

1079
00:47:33,079 --> 00:47:38,199
Speaker 3: I think that Jannis and Turner is a great front

1080
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,039
court combo. And I don't like almost anything else about

1081
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:44,920
the team. Like, I mean, it's great that they got

1082
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,760
back some of the guys they got back, but Kuzma

1083
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,679
is not a winning player to me. I don't know,

1084
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,800
like make the case, like who do you like so

1085
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,639
much beyond those two that you would have I assume

1086
00:47:56,679 --> 00:47:58,079
you how the Bucks in a tier higher.

1087
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: I thought about bumping them up tier higher. I don't

1088
00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:03,920
want to use my I'd rather use my veto on

1089
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,000
the next team, who I'm a lot higher on than you.

1090
00:48:06,519 --> 00:48:08,400
But I didn't realize that they were gonna at the

1091
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,079
bottom of this tier. Look, my whole thing is the

1092
00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:15,159
stuff with Giannis's playmaking last year was kind of terrifying,

1093
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,679
like for other teams, and that might have been like

1094
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,079
the biggest selling point of him coming back is, Look,

1095
00:48:21,079 --> 00:48:23,320
we're still gonna have flour spacing bigs around you, and

1096
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:24,800
now you're gonna be on the ball more. I think

1097
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,920
that will be There'll be limitations then on maybe their

1098
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,199
crunch time offense in the half court. Sure you can

1099
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,639
talk about like do they have enough other shooting around him?

1100
00:48:34,119 --> 00:48:37,400
I love Ryan Rollins, getting Gary Trent Junior, Gary Harrison,

1101
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,719
Torrian Prince, two of those guys where there last year back,

1102
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,159
I think it's a really big deal.

1103
00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 2: I really like aj.

1104
00:48:42,679 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: Green, like I think there's more shooting here than people

1105
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,480
are crediting and just given the way like we saw

1106
00:48:47,519 --> 00:48:50,800
some Rowins, Giannis Turner. Even if you think Jannis and

1107
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,239
Turner have taken steps back defensively, that's like a pretty

1108
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,280
good defensive group. And then you have like aj Green's

1109
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,920
not terrible there, Torrian Prince was solid, Gary Trent you

1110
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,760
will disrupt. They are very predicated on remaining healthy. I

1111
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,000
do not trust Kylekhu's even a little bit. So I'm

1112
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,119
with you on is he a winning player? I just man,

1113
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,599
I can't put them behind Boston. I'm hoping we can

1114
00:49:12,639 --> 00:49:14,880
come to a compromise that doesn't require a veto here.

1115
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 3: I don't have them behind Boston. I have Boston last

1116
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,519
in this tier. Okay, just full disclosure. No, I I

1117
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:25,320
take your point. I think like the simplified version is

1118
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,519
like Yannis is still pretty much in his prime and

1119
00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:32,519
they're maybe like without Dame there, he just has his

1120
00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:36,079
best offensive season ever, Like that's possible. I think the

1121
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,960
likelier outcome is like all these young, mostly unproven guards

1122
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,119
are not any good. Uh, the Bucks get too easy

1123
00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:46,440
to stop because it's just Yannis and spacing, which is

1124
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:47,920
like a good recipe, and that's kind of what you

1125
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,800
have to do with him. But I don't know. It

1126
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,559
feels maybe maybe what I'm like doing here is is

1127
00:49:54,599 --> 00:49:58,079
sort of like letting postseason concerns like trickle in, because

1128
00:49:58,199 --> 00:50:01,440
if Janice is healthy and the shoot really does play,

1129
00:50:01,559 --> 00:50:04,480
this should be a pretty good regular season team. But

1130
00:50:04,639 --> 00:50:08,239
I they won forty eight last year. It feels about right,

1131
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,599
uh to me. And then and then you're pricing in

1132
00:50:10,679 --> 00:50:13,599
like if Turner gets hurt, what happens if Jannis gets hurt?

1133
00:50:13,639 --> 00:50:15,320
This is one of the worst teams in the league,

1134
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,639
like full stop. So yeah, PDP.

1135
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 1: Asks how bad is the Bucks roster if Jannis leaves?

1136
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 3: It's awful.

1137
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: The limit does not exist?

1138
00:50:24,119 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 3: Yea, yeah, yeah, but but you know there's also oh yeah,

1139
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,079
Cole Anthony, I didn't mention him, thank you. That's that's

1140
00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:32,920
a Is that official yet? I don't know if it is.

1141
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, you only get back two million bucks, like Memphis is.

1142
00:50:36,079 --> 00:50:39,960
Offseason is just all sorts of icky. Yeah, we needed

1143
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,559
to get rid of Jay Huff so we could bring

1144
00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:44,639
in Jocolin. I'm just it's weird comfortable with it. I'm

1145
00:50:44,639 --> 00:50:46,840
gonna spoil alert. I will be smashing there under.

1146
00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 3: That means they're going over hard over everybody.

1147
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna so you the Bucks behind the Pistons.

1148
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,280
I can It's weird because I could see the Bucks

1149
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,239
having a much higher ceiling, but when you're trying to

1150
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:59,880
cake in the floor of it all, even with it,

1151
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,840
I'm assuming Yan it's just Stays finishes the season in Milwaukee.

1152
00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 3: I think so too. I also think like this is

1153
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,800
gonna be his age thirty one season. He's an athleticism

1154
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,119
based player, like it ends at so it slows down

1155
00:51:10,119 --> 00:51:12,559
at some point. I think maybe I'm pricing that in too.

1156
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:15,800
There's one more team in this tier for me. They're

1157
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,800
not gonna be in this tier. I'm gonna tell you, okay,

1158
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,320
you're gonna be Where do you have them? The Atlanta Hawks?

1159
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,159
Where do you have them in this tier? They are

1160
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:23,599
first in this tier for me?

1161
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So I am putting them in the A tier

1162
00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:29,679
and using my veto they've been bumped up so we

1163
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,400
can say you up two tiers.

1164
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't bump them.

1165
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,679
Speaker 1: I had them in the Age had you're being forced

1166
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,199
to bump them up, So do you want to talk

1167
00:51:38,199 --> 00:51:39,960
about them when we get to the A tier, then

1168
00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:41,119
we can move on to the next tear.

1169
00:51:41,199 --> 00:51:42,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess we better.

1170
00:51:42,159 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 2: Sure, do you want to start us off with the

1171
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:45,400
B tier?

1172
00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's see. I have one team in this tier,

1173
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,039
and uh, it is the Philadelphia seventy six ers. And

1174
00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:57,599
it is because this is where I landed after a

1175
00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:01,039
lot of wrestling with upside and outside and floor and

1176
00:52:01,079 --> 00:52:03,639
ceiling and injury risks. And actually I put them here

1177
00:52:03,679 --> 00:52:07,679
before the Paul George report about an arthroscopic knee surgery dropped.

1178
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,039
Uh what was it yesterday? I don't know how much

1179
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:14,159
that changes anything. It's just like further evidence of why

1180
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,199
they're hard to rank. I just think they belong in

1181
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,119
their own tier. There's not gonna be anybody else here

1182
00:52:20,159 --> 00:52:25,960
with them, And I don't know how you acknowledge, like

1183
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,800
just Paul George and yeah, they can be in their

1184
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,480
own for sure. Uh, question Mark, Like I don't know

1185
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:39,360
like if mbat, Like I don't think embiid is gonna

1186
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:41,360
play a lot of games this year? Dan does that

1187
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,440
feel like a controversial thing to say. I think he's

1188
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,400
gonna miss because what if he does? Because what if

1189
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,079
he does, then they're gonna be really good. Same with

1190
00:52:50,119 --> 00:52:52,599
Paul George, Like they still have Maxie and we like

1191
00:52:52,679 --> 00:52:56,039
McCain and Grimes will be back, Like there's real players

1192
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:57,880
on this team. I just I don't know what to

1193
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,559
do with them.

1194
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:04,199
Speaker 1: Everybody for the Jets, you're seventy six or above Bucks

1195
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,639
with the medical staff, Maketrey Vj's brain with.

1196
00:53:07,639 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 3: Who needs it? You only have two thumbs? You don't

1197
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,360
need both? Like what's the deal?

1198
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:12,119
Speaker 1: Oh?

1199
00:53:12,159 --> 00:53:13,760
Speaker 2: Those are two all time comments?

1200
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,039
Speaker 3: What do you think about the Sixers?

1201
00:53:15,079 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 2: Like? What should we? Just? Can I frame a question?

1202
00:53:17,559 --> 00:53:22,599
I was, actually, yeah, are they even making it? Look?

1203
00:53:22,639 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: If they had signed Quentin Grimes, i'd put them in

1204
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,199
the stier, but he's still on signs. I don't know

1205
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,280
what to do with. But my question to you was

1206
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,039
actually gonna compare them to the Bucks, because I would

1207
00:53:31,079 --> 00:53:33,079
have had the Bucks in this tier, and I used

1208
00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:36,719
my veto for them. Who has if ya we're assuming

1209
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,639
Yanna stays Milwaukee, who has the lower floor Milwaukee or Philadelphia?

1210
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:43,159
Speaker 3: Obviously Philadelphia?

1211
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 1: Then I don't It's just I would I would be

1212
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,000
flip flopping Milwaukee in Philly if it was me, just

1213
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:52,920
because the embid stuff is It's not like, well, what

1214
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:54,719
if he is healthy, It's kind it's like we're at

1215
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:56,880
the zion point of like, no, you just pencil him

1216
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:58,519
in for missing thirty games.

1217
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair, I think. And if it were just him,

1218
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,079
I don't know this cuts both ways because it's like,

1219
00:54:04,119 --> 00:54:06,639
well it's him and it's Paul George, like they what

1220
00:54:06,679 --> 00:54:09,679
if they're both healthy, which again, it's like you can't

1221
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,639
just it's not a coin flip situation anymore where it's

1222
00:54:12,679 --> 00:54:14,679
like maybe yes, maybe no, it's a fifty to fifty.

1223
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:18,039
It's like, I don't know, seventy five percent chance that

1224
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,440
Embiat and George both miss a ton of times, so

1225
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,719
maybe that maybe that is that is what we should

1226
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,880
be focused on here. I'm not gonna veto myself just

1227
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,599
because I do think the Sixers have to be in

1228
00:54:28,639 --> 00:54:31,119
their own tier, just because there's like I don't know

1229
00:54:31,159 --> 00:54:32,480
what to do with them which team?

1230
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: So then you could say, okay, if you think Milwaukee

1231
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,400
has the higher floor, like which team do you think

1232
00:54:37,159 --> 00:54:40,760
is more likely to actualize its best case outcome this

1233
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,280
It's funny we're getting questions in the chat of how

1234
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:44,800
Philly is above Milwaukee.

1235
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 2: We're attempting to answer that right now.

1236
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:51,199
Speaker 3: Everybody prob that's not easy. I think like, Okay, So

1237
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,360
wait for say that one more time, because I do

1238
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:53,840
think that's.

1239
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,519
Speaker 1: What we established, and I would agree that Philly has

1240
00:54:56,559 --> 00:54:59,159
the lower floor. And this is again assuming Giannis does

1241
00:54:59,199 --> 00:55:03,840
not get trade. What which team if you're factoring in

1242
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,639
their best case outcomes? I think you could agree that

1243
00:55:06,679 --> 00:55:09,079
Philly has a better best case outcome. Right, you're looking

1244
00:55:09,079 --> 00:55:12,199
at the talent, which team is more likely to actualize

1245
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,280
its best like which team's outcome best case is more reachable?

1246
00:55:18,159 --> 00:55:21,599
Speaker 3: I mean, so obviously implicit in the question is we

1247
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,079
have to acknowledge that the Sixers likelihood of hitting their

1248
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:28,199
best case outcome is low, like very low, because of

1249
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:33,840
Embiid's health record and George's is And then the argument

1250
00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:37,239
you're making is that the Bucks likelihood of hitting their

1251
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,159
best case outcome is higher, right, which I think I

1252
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:44,599
agree with. But maybe where I'm maybe where i'd land

1253
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:49,079
is even if the Sixers odds of hitting like a

1254
00:55:49,079 --> 00:55:53,480
one hundred percentile outcome are lower than the Bucks, the

1255
00:55:53,519 --> 00:55:56,639
Sixers one hundred percent outcome is way higher than the

1256
00:55:56,639 --> 00:56:00,280
Bucks like best possible outcome. It's just like maybe it's

1257
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,719
a five percent chance they hit that. I mean, it's

1258
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,360
probably lower than that and the Bucks are ten or

1259
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,880
twelve or so whatever. Like I think that's how I

1260
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,719
like make it make sense in my brain, But it's

1261
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:14,039
still just is ignoring the fact that, like the sixers

1262
00:56:14,159 --> 00:56:18,719
are highly unlikely to maximize this roster, but if they do,

1263
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,239
then they're as good as like literally anybody. But they

1264
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:24,719
just aren't gonna do that. So I don't know that

1265
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,679
that's kind of why I just have to have them

1266
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:27,559
in my own tier because I.

1267
00:56:27,519 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 1: Don't I think you're saying a one percent chance at

1268
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,880
being the NBA champion is better than like a fifty

1269
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,440
percent chance of being the third best team in the

1270
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:36,280
East that doesn't.

1271
00:56:36,079 --> 00:56:39,079
Speaker 3: Which is exactly how Darryl Morey thinks of building a

1272
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:42,800
team too. So I accidentally kind of got a group

1273
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:43,719
think disease with it.

1274
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 2: I have a question that I don't really know.

1275
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 1: If it's not it doesn't impact tiers at all, what's

1276
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,840
more likely juell Embiid plays in fifty or more games

1277
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,360
or Giannis gets traded before the end of next season.

1278
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 3: Uh, Jannis gets traded?

1279
00:56:58,159 --> 00:57:00,599
Speaker 2: Yeah? Really, still the tier higher? That's yeah, I know.

1280
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:02,760
Speaker 3: I mean I think even if you even if em

1281
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:04,960
beat is like pretty healthy they're just gonna rest him

1282
00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:06,599
for twenty five, right.

1283
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,519
Speaker 1: I am sort of wondering how because I like the VJ.

1284
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,000
Edgecombe pick for them, but I'm curious as to what

1285
00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:13,639
type of role he plays and what does it mean

1286
00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:15,719
because when you look at just like unless you think

1287
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,639
Paul George can still do it, like who is just

1288
00:57:17,679 --> 00:57:20,679
defending like the true wings on this roster and if

1289
00:57:20,679 --> 00:57:22,599
you're leaning on a rookie, like it feels like the Bucks,

1290
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,559
even though they might have the lower ceiling, they have

1291
00:57:26,239 --> 00:57:29,719
fewer unknown commodities and I know, like Okay, Kevin Porter

1292
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,119
Junior Ryan Rollins aren't the most known like NBA players,

1293
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:35,519
but like we have more of a track record of Okay, VJ.

1294
00:57:35,639 --> 00:57:37,159
Edge Comme's gonna need to go out there and defend

1295
00:57:37,199 --> 00:57:39,239
every other team's best wing player, unless.

1296
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,679
Speaker 2: You think that can Quentin Grimes do that?

1297
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: Like it's just and then the backup big situation is

1298
00:57:45,039 --> 00:57:47,159
just because if it beats out like I like a

1299
00:57:47,239 --> 00:57:50,400
Dan Bona, but like the Andre Drummond experience is just

1300
00:57:50,719 --> 00:57:53,400
how is this team gonna rebound? I just think so

1301
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,880
if they're yeah, Okay, put Andrey Drummond on the floor,

1302
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,000
and then I'm gona ask, well, how are they gonna

1303
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:00,559
defend and score? So I have more questions about the Sixers,

1304
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:02,519
which is weird because everyone, of course the Bucks is

1305
00:58:03,159 --> 00:58:05,599
doom and gloom, and I think long term they have

1306
00:58:05,639 --> 00:58:07,800
more like they just have that huge Damian Lillard dead

1307
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,159
money cap it now, So there's more challenges even with

1308
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,920
Embiid and George on Phillies' books, although maybe they end

1309
00:58:13,039 --> 00:58:14,159
up getting waved and stretched.

1310
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 2: But I see your case because there's.

1311
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,519
Speaker 1: Still that pot Like the Bucks don't have the like

1312
00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:21,519
what if Middleton and Damon Giannis all remain healthy next Like,

1313
00:58:21,559 --> 00:58:24,599
they don't have that prospect anymore that the Sixers in

1314
00:58:24,679 --> 00:58:28,000
theory still doing. We haven't talked a lot like jere

1315
00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:30,880
McCain if he's healthy getting better, What if Quentin Grimes

1316
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,159
gets better? What if Tyres Max is young enough to

1317
00:58:33,159 --> 00:58:35,320
continue getting better? So they have that going for them

1318
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:35,719
as well.

1319
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think, well, you know, we need to

1320
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,760
get to this next team because okay, so yeah we

1321
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,519
have my Sixers are in one tier, so we skip

1322
00:58:46,599 --> 00:58:48,320
up to the A tier where we've already had the

1323
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,320
Hawks via veto again, not mad at it, I get it.

1324
00:58:51,719 --> 00:58:53,559
I'll wait for you to make the case I have

1325
00:58:53,599 --> 00:58:58,000
the magic in that Hawks tier that that's initially out.

1326
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,639
Speaker 2: Front of the Hawks. That is shocking dull.

1327
00:59:00,679 --> 00:59:02,119
Speaker 3: I guess I have to since I have them a

1328
00:59:02,119 --> 00:59:05,679
whole tier higher. Initially I had the magic here in

1329
00:59:05,719 --> 00:59:07,960
their own tier as well, because I just like one

1330
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:12,320
team tiers. I mean, the magic is a pretty simple case, right,

1331
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,199
like one forty one last year. I want to make sure.

1332
00:59:15,239 --> 00:59:16,960
I think I've said that several times, but I want

1333
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,320
to make sure that's right. Yeah, great defense, terrible offense

1334
00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:23,400
added Desmond Bane should get better health from ban Caro

1335
00:59:23,559 --> 00:59:27,360
and Franz. Like Jess Suggs, it's a fifty yeah, I

1336
00:59:27,719 --> 00:59:30,360
always forget Sugs. This is a fifty win team, like

1337
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:34,320
unless something goes very sideways and maybe there's some upside

1338
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,360
from there. I just like they're They're a very comfortable,

1339
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,760
like just sub elite team for me.

1340
00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:44,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're They're in the right spot.

1341
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,119
Speaker 1: I think if I was didn't already use my veto,

1342
00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:49,159
I might even nudge them up to S tier because

1343
00:59:49,159 --> 00:59:50,920
I think the addition of Ties Jones is going to

1344
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,360
do wonders for their offense as well. And Palo bank

1345
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,480
Caaro it's not just about him. Getting better, but it's

1346
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,519
oh Palo Bank Cao with floor spacing now around a

1347
00:59:59,519 --> 01:00:02,039
little bit more four spacing, I think they probably still

1348
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:04,159
have unless Franz Vagner is gonna remember how to make

1349
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:06,440
three pointers. I think that they probably still have some

1350
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:10,599
spacing questions with this team. But there's the defense was

1351
01:00:10,599 --> 01:00:14,000
incredible last year. You're not gonna get maybe there during

1352
01:00:14,079 --> 01:00:16,920
Tias Jones Tias Jones minutes, excuse me, maybe you get

1353
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:18,400
a little worse then, But like desmon Bank is not

1354
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,679
gonna hurt your defense like at all. No, no, no, no,

1355
01:00:22,679 --> 01:00:25,440
Like they're and all the value they lost to injury

1356
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,280
last year is like they're their top three players all

1357
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,079
missed a significant portion of the season and even if

1358
01:00:31,079 --> 01:00:33,320
you say one of them that happens again, I think

1359
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,480
short of it being bang Caro, they'll just be built

1360
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:36,360
to weather it.

1361
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,159
Speaker 2: So they're in the right spot.

1362
01:00:38,239 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: And I would say that you need to make the

1363
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:41,559
case for them, We would need to make the case

1364
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:43,880
for them to be higher before it's oh could like

1365
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:45,559
what does it take for them to even drop down

1366
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:48,119
to a Sixers Pistons Bucks level?

1367
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:48,639
Speaker 2: Right?

1368
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it just injuries, Like I think I

1369
01:00:51,679 --> 01:00:53,559
think that's the only way that. So they were second

1370
01:00:53,639 --> 01:00:58,079
in defense and twenty sixth on offense last year, Like

1371
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,679
they're a top five defense. I don't know they'll be two,

1372
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,000
just because like Houston and there's plenty that's the difference

1373
01:01:04,039 --> 01:01:05,679
between fifth and second is not that big a deal.

1374
01:01:05,719 --> 01:01:08,239
They'll be a top five defense unless something crazy happens

1375
01:01:08,519 --> 01:01:11,480
and then, like you know, they're twenty sixth in offense

1376
01:01:11,559 --> 01:01:16,280
last year, if you're seventeenth, like that's like what a

1377
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:18,239
massive leap that is, and that's such a low bar.

1378
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,320
Like I really do think at some point, since there's

1379
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,920
like at least decent spacing now and if Polo's as

1380
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,400
good as we both think he is, like you need

1381
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:28,679
to be a top half of the league offense probably,

1382
01:01:28,719 --> 01:01:31,159
which is total Like they're not gonna be fifth or

1383
01:01:31,159 --> 01:01:34,719
tenth or whatever, but like they should be significantly better

1384
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,639
on offense and the defense is not going anywhere. So

1385
01:01:36,679 --> 01:01:37,840
that's an easy fifty wins.

1386
01:01:39,039 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 1: Ro hit the Palo is better than Tatum narrative gonna

1387
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,440
hit like crack in November. I hadn't considered that, but

1388
01:01:44,519 --> 01:01:46,599
I do think when players are injured or we haven't

1389
01:01:46,639 --> 01:01:48,920
seen them for a while, we kind of forget and

1390
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:50,920
so I could honestly see like that'll be a talking

1391
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,000
I could see that becoming a talking point at some

1392
01:01:53,119 --> 01:01:54,440
stage of the season.

1393
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:58,159
Speaker 3: You not comfortable with Jason Tatum just catching comparative strays

1394
01:01:58,199 --> 01:01:59,599
while he's hurt, Well.

1395
01:01:59,679 --> 01:02:03,039
Speaker 1: I don't, I wouldn't, but I could see that happening

1396
01:02:03,079 --> 01:02:04,960
because we just have a way of forgetting about players

1397
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:06,480
and we haven't seen, like look at what the NBA

1398
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:09,679
discourse turns into like by August right when you haven't

1399
01:02:09,679 --> 01:02:13,559
seen like the veterans play, what do you think that

1400
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,039
Orlando will have? It has not had a league averager

1401
01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:19,519
better offense since Dwight Howard was on the team.

1402
01:02:20,079 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 2: Do you think that the trend gets bucked this year?

1403
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,559
Speaker 3: That's a big jump. I wish I should look up

1404
01:02:26,639 --> 01:02:29,320
like what the biggest year over year offensive jumps are.

1405
01:02:30,719 --> 01:02:32,440
So they got to be top half of the league

1406
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:33,480
in offense.

1407
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,119
Speaker 1: Which sounds like such a low bar to clear for

1408
01:02:37,519 --> 01:02:38,199
this franchise.

1409
01:02:38,239 --> 01:02:39,519
Speaker 2: It's not so.

1410
01:02:39,679 --> 01:02:42,239
Speaker 3: He actually, this is one of the reasons I didn't

1411
01:02:42,239 --> 01:02:44,559
have the magic up in the tier with the next

1412
01:02:44,559 --> 01:02:50,000
two teams it's top two is I think Jamal Moseley,

1413
01:02:50,159 --> 01:02:52,519
like this is gonna be the referendum on Jamal Mosley

1414
01:02:52,559 --> 01:02:54,519
as a coach, I think, like, is he gonna be

1415
01:02:54,559 --> 01:02:57,400
the guy because got the defense going. That's great, That's

1416
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,159
like one of the hardest things to do. But I

1417
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:04,840
don't know how Like there's the lack of spacing excuses

1418
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,639
kind of mitigated slash may be removed now, and so

1419
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,239
like what what is he as an offensive coach? Like

1420
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:11,840
what kind of stuff is he going to put in?

1421
01:03:12,199 --> 01:03:14,840
So I'm I'm hemming and hauling because like, I think

1422
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,000
the talent is there for them to be a better

1423
01:03:17,039 --> 01:03:20,760
than average offense, So, you know, tenth to fifteenth or whatever.

1424
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,719
I just don't know yet if Moseley and his staff

1425
01:03:25,079 --> 01:03:28,519
are good enough offensively to like get out of the

1426
01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:31,599
talent what could be gotten out of it? So I'll

1427
01:03:31,639 --> 01:03:35,599
probably I'll say they will not, but they'll be right

1428
01:03:35,639 --> 01:03:37,960
in that range because twenty sixth to like fourteenth or

1429
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,719
fifteenth would be in like a massive jump. So I'll

1430
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:43,119
say they'll be like sixteen seventeen something like that.

1431
01:03:43,559 --> 01:03:46,719
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say they finish in the top fourteen. I

1432
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:47,480
think they get there.

1433
01:03:47,559 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: I'm Matt high on Ben Carrow and I think the

1434
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,039
Desmond Main acquisitions is going to be.

1435
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 2: Massive for them.

1436
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,199
Speaker 3: Franz is gonna make a shot at some point too,

1437
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:55,039
so that'll help.

1438
01:03:55,039 --> 01:03:57,199
Speaker 1: And like the other thing too, is like could if

1439
01:03:57,199 --> 01:03:59,440
they run a little bit more with Desmond Baine or

1440
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,159
just having a better decision maker and Tyas Jones. Their

1441
01:04:02,199 --> 01:04:05,159
defense is so good it will allow them the opportunity

1442
01:04:05,199 --> 01:04:08,480
to go up against more scrambled defenses at the other end,

1443
01:04:08,519 --> 01:04:11,239
which could inflate. Like that's how like the Houston or

1444
01:04:11,239 --> 01:04:12,800
the Memphis m type deal.

1445
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 3: But that's that low hanging fruit's been there forever and

1446
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,320
they just haven't picked it. And so that's one other

1447
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,719
reason that Mosley like gives me some pause as like

1448
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,960
he is he like, I don't know, he's not Kenny Atkinson.

1449
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:24,079
We'll leave it. Leave it there.

1450
01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:26,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was even Jordi Fernandez.

1451
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,599
Speaker 1: But it comes to if you are all right, make

1452
01:04:29,639 --> 01:04:33,079
your case for the Hawks and the eighthier go yeah, uh.

1453
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 3: You know, I look, the Sixers being in their own

1454
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:39,880
tier screwed this up. I think Orlando's better, but I

1455
01:04:40,239 --> 01:04:43,559
can see the argument for Atlanta belonging here. I just

1456
01:04:43,639 --> 01:04:45,840
thought they it felt more at home to me with

1457
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:50,840
the Detroit, Milwaukee Boston crowd. So I just like I think, look,

1458
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:52,440
I mean you, I'm sure you can make the case.

1459
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,239
Like their starters we like a lot. Didn't really see

1460
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,280
him much last year because Johnson was hurt so much,

1461
01:04:58,119 --> 01:05:02,920
and then we like Canard, we like Porzingis, I mean,

1462
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,880
who knows and then who's the third guy that they got?

1463
01:05:07,039 --> 01:05:08,920
Oh my god, what am I doing? And I love

1464
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,440
Na so much? Yeah, make the case they're a really

1465
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:13,159
good team. Then maybe I should Adham higher.

1466
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: They you could kind of see that they were going

1467
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,320
in this direction. It felt like last year where you

1468
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:19,920
saw the vision of what they were trying to do

1469
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,360
around Trey Young with a bunch of just like Rangey,

1470
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:26,920
different defensive types, like more size around him, adding to

1471
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:29,679
Keith Alexander Walker, to having Dyce and Daniels, to even

1472
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,320
Jalen Johnson who's at least super portable, Zachary Resische there

1473
01:05:34,119 --> 01:05:38,519
and now Ason Newell as well. Like, I'm not saying

1474
01:05:38,519 --> 01:05:40,920
that they're gonna be a great defense, but like you've

1475
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:44,000
successfully Trey Young, he's improved his defensive effort.

1476
01:05:44,039 --> 01:05:45,519
Speaker 2: I feel like we need to qualify that. Every time

1477
01:05:45,559 --> 01:05:47,559
we talk about the Hawks and Trey Young's defense.

1478
01:05:47,559 --> 01:05:51,079
Speaker 1: It's still just it's similar to he's worse because he's slighter,

1479
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:53,519
but like teams go after Jalen Brunson on the Knicks

1480
01:05:53,519 --> 01:05:55,599
even though like he's not someone who doesn't try, like

1481
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,519
not try, and Trey Young, we've seen the try factor.

1482
01:05:59,280 --> 01:05:59,719
Speaker 2: Oh.

1483
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: I was listening to Dunkton by the Way a few

1484
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,400
days and he called the Hornets try curious, and it

1485
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,760
got me really laughing because it's like he's.

1486
01:06:06,599 --> 01:06:08,119
Speaker 2: Not sure whether they're gonna try or not.

1487
01:06:08,159 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 1: I though that was great, but saying that Trey Young tries,

1488
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,920
maybe he's try curious. I'm the defensive end now, but

1489
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:16,239
it's like he's so slight it doesn't matter. But they've

1490
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:20,079
kind of just insulated themselves so well against even if

1491
01:06:20,119 --> 01:06:22,719
they can't be a top level defense, they have core

1492
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,760
lineups that they can get to that will be a

1493
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,440
top level defense. And now I think you get into

1494
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:31,159
the hell factor with them, And I think that's maybe

1495
01:06:31,199 --> 01:06:34,599
the biggest argument is to like Christops and Jalen Johnson specifically,

1496
01:06:35,039 --> 01:06:37,119
if either one of those two guys doesn't stay healthy,

1497
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,320
their frontline rotation is not the most proven, Like you

1498
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:42,079
have on Yaka kong Wu and you have some guy

1499
01:06:42,199 --> 01:06:45,320
like you know, always playing Dyson, Daniels and Resichet as

1500
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:46,840
like kind of your three, like not the end of

1501
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,159
the world, but you are like sacrificing some things there.

1502
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,400
Trey Young is still a ticket to like when you

1503
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,119
look at some of the lineups he has had to

1504
01:06:54,159 --> 01:06:56,119
carry and the level of offensive talent there.

1505
01:06:56,559 --> 01:06:59,079
Speaker 2: I know that the Hawks have not.

1506
01:06:59,039 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: Been like setting the world on fire offensively really under

1507
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,840
Quinn Snyder. They still can when Trey's on the floor,

1508
01:07:04,119 --> 01:07:07,519
and that was with him having like not a good

1509
01:07:07,559 --> 01:07:10,800
season by not an efficient season by his standards last year,

1510
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:12,639
and I think he was dealing with some Achilles stuff.

1511
01:07:13,079 --> 01:07:15,639
If he just shoots better from three or nudges up

1512
01:07:15,679 --> 01:07:18,599
the floater a little bit, this team becomes so much better.

1513
01:07:18,719 --> 01:07:22,159
So I'm looking at them and it's maybe I'm like

1514
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,920
drinking the offseason kool aid a little like gulping it

1515
01:07:25,119 --> 01:07:28,480
a little too, you know, enthusiastically. But this is the

1516
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,559
most balanced Tray Young team I've ever seen, and I

1517
01:07:31,599 --> 01:07:35,039
think it helps where my biggest question might be about

1518
01:07:35,079 --> 01:07:36,840
their secondary offensive creation.

1519
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 2: But it's like I.

1520
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:41,719
Speaker 1: Don't know, like between the kil Alexander Walker and if

1521
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,320
Jalen Johnson is healthy and now Luke Kennard, who is

1522
01:07:44,559 --> 01:07:46,440
we know him more as a shooter, but like when

1523
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,599
he's healthy and it feels like I don't know if

1524
01:07:48,639 --> 01:07:51,480
there's any cartilage less than his knees, but he's got

1525
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,119
some just what's the buzzword, like shifty wiggle, Like he's

1526
01:07:55,159 --> 01:07:58,800
got some of that off the dribble and so go ahead.

1527
01:07:59,039 --> 01:08:02,039
Speaker 3: I was just saying, there's like he's not a special

1528
01:08:02,119 --> 01:08:04,159
He isn't is not a specialist because the shooting is

1529
01:08:04,199 --> 01:08:06,360
like he's one of the most accurate three point shooters ever,

1530
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:10,440
but like he definitely has wiring that is like I

1531
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:12,639
think to facilitate when I'm on the ball, and like

1532
01:08:12,679 --> 01:08:14,320
some guys don't have that, and so it's like a

1533
01:08:14,559 --> 01:08:16,880
it's like it's not his carrying skill, but it's definitely

1534
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,079
like a part of the package for him. Whereas if

1535
01:08:19,079 --> 01:08:20,840
he's healthy and on the floor, like he really is

1536
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:25,279
like a force multiplier offensively, not just because he's a shooter.

1537
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:27,600
Speaker 2: I think. And by the way, they still have the

1538
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:28,479
ability to do this.

1539
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:30,640
Speaker 1: I would feel more comfortable if just like there was

1540
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:34,319
another floor general type that wasn't Kobe Buffkin on this

1541
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,199
and he's had like the other night he had a

1542
01:08:36,199 --> 01:08:37,960
really good Summer League game, So maybe he's able to

1543
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:41,039
give you something this year. But like backup point guard,

1544
01:08:41,039 --> 01:08:42,319
if you want to call again, I know they have

1545
01:08:42,359 --> 01:08:45,560
any kill Alexander Walker. You can go get that in

1546
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:47,119
the middle of the season, like they have the trade

1547
01:08:47,119 --> 01:08:49,640
flexibility to do it. And I I was not prepared

1548
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:51,800
to be on the Atlanta Hawks entering the summer.

1549
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,119
Speaker 2: If anything, I was like veering towards the opposite direction.

1550
01:08:55,239 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: And so maybe they're a little too dependent on like Okay,

1551
01:08:59,159 --> 01:09:01,720
the most improved play diceon Daniels was that lightning in

1552
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:02,119
a bottle?

1553
01:09:02,199 --> 01:09:03,039
Speaker 2: Or was it for real?

1554
01:09:03,119 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: And now you're relying on Zachary Resiche and how much

1555
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,640
you're gonna actually rely on Asa Newell. So if you're

1556
01:09:09,039 --> 01:09:11,359
doing things like that, I could see where they inexperience

1557
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:14,640
and the mystery box stuff might work against them. But

1558
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:16,680
like when you look at the East and how many

1559
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,479
questions we have about teams such as the Bucks, the Heat.

1560
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:23,199
Speaker 2: The Sixers, the Pacers, it.

1561
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:26,640
Speaker 1: Just feels like there's a certainty in Atlanta that so

1562
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:30,319
many teams outside of the Orlandos, the New York the

1563
01:09:30,359 --> 01:09:32,479
Clevelands just do not enjoy.

1564
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I think that's right. Weirdly, like, is is

1565
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:41,560
one of the biggest points of uncertainty actually surrounding Trey

1566
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:45,720
because it not forget the extension stuff, just like the

1567
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,880
his three point shot has not fallen like at high

1568
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,239
enough rates for a couple of years now, and the

1569
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:53,000
Achilles I think, I don't know if you even he

1570
01:09:53,039 --> 01:09:55,479
said it, but it's definitely been speculated that the Achilles

1571
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:56,239
like was a factor.

1572
01:09:56,239 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 2: There.

1573
01:09:57,239 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 3: I wonder, and I'm not just like it's not just

1574
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:02,840
like a Devil's advocate thing. I actually do wonder because

1575
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:05,840
I think it's possibly is is he still for a

1576
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:07,640
minute there he was a guy that like, if you

1577
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,600
have Trey Young, your offense just can't be worse than tenth,

1578
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:12,840
you know, and maybe it's top five just because he's

1579
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:16,800
that he's not quite the STEPH level singular driver of offense,

1580
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:19,479
but like he's in that next tier of guys. Is

1581
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,960
he capable of being that with more talent around him now?

1582
01:10:23,079 --> 01:10:25,319
Or is this what we've seen the last couple of

1583
01:10:25,399 --> 01:10:27,560
years where the counting stats are still great, but like

1584
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,840
from an efficiency perspective, he's not good enough to be

1585
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,640
that guy that's driving your whole offense. Maybe he doesn't

1586
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,600
need to be with more talent and if you have

1587
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:38,680
porzingis the spacing's great, but does that resonate at all?

1588
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,319
Like I'm not sure he's still there.

1589
01:10:42,039 --> 01:10:44,159
Speaker 1: I think he is, and I think what impacted him

1590
01:10:44,199 --> 01:10:46,199
more than anything again and like some of the offensive

1591
01:10:46,199 --> 01:10:48,319
lineups were able to sing with him less than his best,

1592
01:10:48,319 --> 01:10:50,920
it was the lift was so heavy because there was

1593
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,279
the lack of that secondary ball handling and a lack

1594
01:10:53,319 --> 01:10:56,119
of spacing. When you're looking at the pull other players

1595
01:10:56,159 --> 01:11:00,399
had you've now addressed, I would say probably. I guess

1596
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,159
like the shooting more so, just because I don't know

1597
01:11:03,199 --> 01:11:05,600
how to feel about Naws like a secondary ball handling guy.

1598
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:09,720
So between Christops, if Chalan Johnson's healthy, having Lukenard there,

1599
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:14,399
Nikhil Alexander Walker's improved as a shooter, it feels like

1600
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:16,720
there's going to be more room for him to work

1601
01:11:17,159 --> 01:11:19,760
in the half court, and I would be pretty if

1602
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,359
he's healthy. I'd be pretty surprised if we don't see

1603
01:11:22,399 --> 01:11:26,159
his efficiency uptick. I don't want to say dramatically, but

1604
01:11:26,319 --> 01:11:28,760
fairly substantially, And so I do believe that, And just

1605
01:11:29,199 --> 01:11:33,319
you know the kind of Clint Capella like waxing and

1606
01:11:33,319 --> 01:11:35,319
waiting like he kind of lost a okay, like the

1607
01:11:35,399 --> 01:11:37,720
lob threat that you would have wanted, and so maybe

1608
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:40,239
you still don't have that idea like on Yakka kung

1609
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:42,960
who's there, and like that's not Porzingis's game, but like

1610
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:44,920
now you've replaced it with more of a spacing element,

1611
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,279
which I think ends up helping Trey as a score

1612
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:49,640
and then a sprayer. Like when looking at his passing,

1613
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,279
maybe again, you're not gonna see as many assists at

1614
01:11:52,319 --> 01:11:55,439
the rim perhaps this year, but with Jalen Johnson and

1615
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:56,760
on Yaka kung Wu, maybe you do.

1616
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I'm as I'm pulling the stats up.

1617
01:12:00,159 --> 01:12:02,800
I'm freaking out about like forty one percent from the

1618
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:06,600
field thirty four percent from three the year before he

1619
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:08,880
was forty three and thirty seven, which is like you're

1620
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:11,359
gonna that's I'm not worried if he shoots forty three

1621
01:12:11,399 --> 01:12:13,359
percent from the field and third, which is two point percentage,

1622
01:12:13,359 --> 01:12:16,800
looked like it's been it's been like forty seven ish

1623
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:18,479
the last couple of years. He had a couple of

1624
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,640
years over fifty. I think those those actually yeah, two

1625
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,960
couple but yeah, he's like forty seven percent pretty metronogally

1626
01:12:25,319 --> 01:12:25,960
is that bold?

1627
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,119
Speaker 1: I will predict that Trey Young hits half or more

1628
01:12:29,119 --> 01:12:30,279
of his two pointers this year.

1629
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 3: Oh, I like that's a great bold prediction. I'll probably

1630
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:35,960
steal that if I get assigned that, because you're right,

1631
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:40,680
the idea of like of porzingis stretching. Maybe he just

1632
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:43,720
goes on a float or blitz because there's nobody in there.

1633
01:12:44,199 --> 01:12:45,159
I could see that happening.

1634
01:12:45,199 --> 01:12:47,399
Speaker 2: Man, if he's not healthy.

1635
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: The it's weird because it's not so much his production

1636
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:53,479
for me that I think makes this team so good,

1637
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:56,000
but it's sort of the combinations and the options that

1638
01:12:56,039 --> 01:12:57,479
he opens up by being on the floor. And if

1639
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:59,600
he's not able to be on the floor, I will say,

1640
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,800
aside for something happening to Trey Young himself, that's could

1641
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,000
totally flip my perception of this team.

1642
01:13:06,279 --> 01:13:08,079
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Well, he's just it's kind of the same

1643
01:13:08,119 --> 01:13:09,960
case as it was in Boston, where he just is

1644
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,560
an element that you like, you know, you're not replicating

1645
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,840
what porzingis provides through somebody else, like you you get

1646
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:18,399
it from him or you don't get it in terms

1647
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:22,119
of like the spacing, the switch busting, like all that stuff. Yeah,

1648
01:13:22,159 --> 01:13:22,760
now all right.

1649
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: Force you to use a veto because you didn't use one.

1650
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:28,439
But I had the Knicks in my B tier. I mean,

1651
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:29,960
excuse me, the A tier excuse like I.

1652
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:30,399
Speaker 2: Had the Knicks.

1653
01:13:30,399 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 3: I was goot a veto that real hard.

1654
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:33,319
Speaker 2: I had the.

1655
01:13:33,319 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 1: Knicks ahead of Orlando and Atlanta because I believe that

1656
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:39,159
they're kind of like there's just a separation.

1657
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:40,119
Speaker 2: Between them and Cleveland for me.

1658
01:13:40,239 --> 01:13:43,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you have them in that? Would you keep

1659
01:13:43,239 --> 01:13:44,520
them in the I just want you to use a

1660
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:45,159
veto you didn't.

1661
01:13:45,239 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will use a veto and they have to

1662
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:49,760
go up to the top tier with with Cleveland. Look

1663
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:54,800
I I I well, maybe, Layout, what is your main

1664
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:58,199
reason for not having the Knicks in the top tier?

1665
01:13:58,199 --> 01:14:02,439
If you had to boil it, like, what's your biggest.

1666
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 1: I don't What they've telegraphed this offseason, and it's not unreasonable,

1667
01:14:07,119 --> 01:14:10,880
is that they believe their team as currently constructed, is

1668
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,000
a title contender, meaning that they could win the championship.

1669
01:14:14,039 --> 01:14:16,560
Whether you view that as just coming out of the

1670
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:19,039
East or I would view it as if you think

1671
01:14:19,079 --> 01:14:21,039
that you can win the championship, it's beating anyone that

1672
01:14:21,079 --> 01:14:24,039
you may face in the Western Conference. I don't think

1673
01:14:24,039 --> 01:14:26,680
they're there, and I think the signings of they're there

1674
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:28,239
in the sense of do I think they're their second

1675
01:14:28,319 --> 01:14:29,159
or third best team.

1676
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 2: In the East.

1677
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:33,239
Speaker 1: Sure, but like the signings of Jordan Clarkson and Gershan

1678
01:14:33,319 --> 01:14:36,079
Yabucelli like the they make your rotation deeper.

1679
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,039
Speaker 2: But I feel like we're.

1680
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:41,119
Speaker 1: Just overlooking some things, like the wing depth on this

1681
01:14:41,199 --> 01:14:44,600
team right now is pretty bad outside of Josh Hart,

1682
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:49,319
McHale Bridges and Ogiananobi, and then the offense should be

1683
01:14:49,319 --> 01:14:51,479
better under Mike Brown. Like I think there's more interplay

1684
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:54,159
between Jayn Brunson and karl anthy Towns, which will be that'll.

1685
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,640
Speaker 2: Be a great thing. What are they defensively?

1686
01:14:57,119 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 1: I'd like, can they be a league average defensive team

1687
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:03,399
while tapping into the full weight of their offense? I

1688
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:07,079
don't know, And like their signings in yabou Celli and

1689
01:15:07,119 --> 01:15:10,119
Clarkson have leaned almost all the way towards offense and

1690
01:15:10,399 --> 01:15:13,319
now they were fifth in offense last year, but they

1691
01:15:13,319 --> 01:15:15,880
were fourteenth after January first, so I kind of get

1692
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:19,199
the inclination. But I'm sitting here like I feel like

1693
01:15:19,279 --> 01:15:21,640
people I hate saying this because it makes me an

1694
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:24,159
a hole. Just Jordan Clarkson is not what I feel

1695
01:15:24,159 --> 01:15:25,960
like a lot of people are making Jordan Clarkson out

1696
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,119
to be sure right now, like he improved as a

1697
01:15:28,159 --> 01:15:30,600
pastor in Utah, but just like that's not someone who

1698
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:34,359
was driving there when they were overachieving. He wasn't the

1699
01:15:34,359 --> 01:15:37,359
one driving it, and he was putting up numbers when

1700
01:15:37,359 --> 01:15:39,560
he was playing for a really bad team and not

1701
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:43,479
doing so with like the utmost of efficiency. I worry

1702
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,680
about both him and Josh Hard and Yabuselli all coming

1703
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:47,680
off the same bench.

1704
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:51,399
Speaker 2: So I just don't know what to think there.

1705
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:54,840
Speaker 1: And I also think that there is the potential for

1706
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:56,960
just a curveball to be thrown and now could be

1707
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:58,680
a good curve ball, at least in my eyes, where

1708
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,039
it's like, oh, does Lebron decide rather than what we

1709
01:16:01,079 --> 01:16:03,359
reported about him going to the Mavericks a couple right

1710
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:05,600
like a week ago, Like does he go to okay here?

1711
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:08,640
But could you see them moving Mitchell Robinson or McHale

1712
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:12,960
bridges because they didn't sign an extension. There's I think

1713
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:16,000
there's a lower floor here, or I shouldn't even say that.

1714
01:16:16,039 --> 01:16:20,079
Their floor feels exceptionally high, but they have a lower

1715
01:16:20,119 --> 01:16:22,560
ceiling to me right now. And it's not because I

1716
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,760
believe that Jalen Brunson's like elimiting stylistic factor on offense.

1717
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:28,279
I actually believe the opposite. I just don't know what

1718
01:16:28,319 --> 01:16:31,239
their defensive ceiling is. And I also just look, I

1719
01:16:31,279 --> 01:16:33,079
have some concerns about Mike Brown too.

1720
01:16:33,119 --> 01:16:35,359
Speaker 2: Is you know what was one of the Kings.

1721
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 1: Fans' biggest complaints about him when he got fired. His

1722
01:16:38,039 --> 01:16:40,920
rotation was too top heavy, and everyone's viewing him as

1723
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:44,319
like this antidote to Tom Thibodeau running a shallow rotation,

1724
01:16:44,359 --> 01:16:48,319
which I find curious and like, yeah, they have more

1725
01:16:48,319 --> 01:16:50,560
options now because it is the other thing that And

1726
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:52,720
you know, I was hard on TIBs, Like I became

1727
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:54,279
a TIBs defender, I feel like by the end of

1728
01:16:54,359 --> 01:16:56,640
last year. But everyone who was playing the kids make

1729
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:57,680
the rotation deeper?

1730
01:16:57,840 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 2: What what? Like?

1731
01:16:59,079 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 1: What? Who did you want him to play a bunch

1732
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,560
more like yo, okay, trying Duce McBride, trying Mitchell Robinson

1733
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,119
in the starting lineup when he was healthy that stuff. Yeah,

1734
01:17:06,159 --> 01:17:08,960
he didn't maybe experiment enough. Do you run into that

1735
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:10,960
with Mike Brown? I'm sure like that was a mandate,

1736
01:17:11,039 --> 01:17:13,680
so it won't. But Tyler Kollach has not impressed me

1737
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:18,439
during summer league. Pocomb Dottier was whatever before he gets injured, Like,

1738
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,159
just where is the extra pizazz like coming from this?

1739
01:17:21,319 --> 01:17:23,840
I think it's meaningfully, it means something that their rotation

1740
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,439
is deeper, like they're two more NBA players deep, right,

1741
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:30,720
But like, in terms of measuring up to Cleveland, I

1742
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,560
have a really tough time get like, I wouldn't you.

1743
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:35,319
I couldn't pick them to beat Cleveland in a seven

1744
01:17:35,359 --> 01:17:37,439
game series, right you couldn't. I don't know what the

1745
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:39,000
case would be for them to beat Cleveland in a

1746
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:40,640
seven game series right now, quite frankly.

1747
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 3: So that's a great segue because that's my sticking point

1748
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:47,239
with like I think Cleveland. In the regular season, there'll

1749
01:17:47,279 --> 01:17:50,079
be a bigger gap between Cleveland as the top seed

1750
01:17:50,079 --> 01:17:52,399
in the East and the Knicks at number two than

1751
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,119
there will be between the Knicks and like Atlanta or

1752
01:17:55,319 --> 01:17:58,680
Orlando or whatever. I think, like regular season wise, I'm

1753
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:01,880
much more persuaded that the Knicks don't belong in this tier.

1754
01:18:02,279 --> 01:18:06,199
But the Calves just keep leaving the playoffs before they should,

1755
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:09,399
and sometimes that's happened because the Knicks beat them, and

1756
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:14,880
the Knicks, in contrast, like just keep proving it in

1757
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:18,760
postseason settings, Like I mean, I trust Brunson. I don't

1758
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:20,960
love how Brunson play is that it gets results, it works,

1759
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:24,760
they keep you know, they've had good postseasons. I think

1760
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,840
the fact that I don't trust the Calves yet to

1761
01:18:28,279 --> 01:18:31,000
figure it out in the games that matter is just

1762
01:18:31,079 --> 01:18:33,079
why I have them in this same tier. But I

1763
01:18:33,159 --> 01:18:35,199
have to acknowledge all the points you brought up about

1764
01:18:35,199 --> 01:18:38,720
the Knicks, like potential frailties, while at the same time,

1765
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:43,159
like I think you should say, uh, Jordan Clarkson like

1766
01:18:43,399 --> 01:18:46,079
not a big deal, still probably better than campaign, Like

1767
01:18:46,159 --> 01:18:49,239
maybe maybe not. Mike Brown, who knows the offense, has

1768
01:18:49,279 --> 01:18:52,079
to be more dynamic and interesting and varied with him

1769
01:18:52,079 --> 01:18:55,159
than Thibodeau. So like, there's these marginal improvements I think

1770
01:18:55,319 --> 01:18:57,880
that you could point to that may not even really

1771
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,760
matter until the postseason. But I do think that there

1772
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,760
is an argument that the Knicks should be better in

1773
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,159
a handful of ways and should it in fact, like

1774
01:19:06,319 --> 01:19:08,359
the expectations should be that they're better in a handful

1775
01:19:08,399 --> 01:19:11,239
of ways. Uh, the Calves are great, They're gonna win

1776
01:19:11,359 --> 01:19:14,119
sixty games or whatever it is again and run away

1777
01:19:14,119 --> 01:19:17,439
with the number one seed, and then what happens after that.

1778
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:20,399
I'm pricing that in, I guess, just because I think

1779
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:23,920
that you have to you have to consider that type

1780
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:25,840
of thing. If it's like who are the best teams?

1781
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:27,960
Like I think that I would trust the Knicks to

1782
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:31,000
go farther than the Calves in the playoffs, like just

1783
01:19:31,079 --> 01:19:33,279
I don't know. Maybe I'll change my tune if Cleveland

1784
01:19:33,319 --> 01:19:35,680
pulls it off, but I don't know that that's part

1785
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:35,960
of it.

1786
01:19:36,239 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 1: I feel uncomfortable saying this, but I almost feel like

1787
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:41,119
if we were factoring in just the playoffs, that I

1788
01:19:41,159 --> 01:19:44,039
would have the Magic ahead of the Knicks in a

1789
01:19:44,079 --> 01:19:46,600
tier right now, because that like if you can operate

1790
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:48,720
in the muck, and we did, like the Knicks kind

1791
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:50,840
of ratcheted up defensively at points in the playoffs.

1792
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to dismiss that. Oh yeah, well, like, couldn't.

1793
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:56,840
Speaker 1: You see Orlando when you're looking at the overall balance,

1794
01:19:57,079 --> 01:20:00,119
like the separation between their offense and defense, doesn't it

1795
01:20:00,159 --> 01:20:02,600
like they would have better balance or could have better

1796
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:03,880
balance In the Knicks.

1797
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:06,479
Speaker 3: I would still look like we just you were on

1798
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:07,840
the high end and you said they might have the

1799
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:11,800
number fourteen offense. I'm way more concerned about Orlando top fourteen.

1800
01:20:12,039 --> 01:20:14,279
That was the top fourteen, that could be number one.

1801
01:20:15,199 --> 01:20:18,239
I'm way more concerned about Orlando's postseason scoring than I

1802
01:20:18,239 --> 01:20:20,680
am about the Knicks postseason defense, because we've seen the

1803
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:23,239
Knicks hit a level that like that is okay, this

1804
01:20:23,319 --> 01:20:25,479
flies in the playoffs. If you can play this hard

1805
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:29,600
like and defend this way, you're fine. Or we assume

1806
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,680
Orlando's going to be better offensively, I feel like such

1807
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,439
an old man being like I need to see it,

1808
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:37,119
you know, But I just I have questions about Orlando's

1809
01:20:37,119 --> 01:20:39,399
scoring until they they answer them.

1810
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: Grant to quote the Santa Claus Believing seeing isn't believing.

1811
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:44,840
Speaker 2: Believing is seeing.

1812
01:20:45,159 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 3: Oh that's like that sounds that sounds sufficiently like faux profound.

1813
01:20:50,039 --> 01:20:51,960
I think, is this a Tim Allen Santa Claus? Is

1814
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:53,079
that the one? Yeah?

1815
01:20:53,399 --> 01:20:57,119
Speaker 1: Okay, So the Calves are do you worry at all

1816
01:20:57,159 --> 01:21:02,479
about like they're kind of point of attack defense or

1817
01:21:02,479 --> 01:21:04,439
just their overall wing, Like it's Hunter and it's Lonzo

1818
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:05,399
Ball and it's Dean Wade.

1819
01:21:05,399 --> 01:21:07,600
Speaker 2: Now that isca Coro's gone out. I was fine with

1820
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:08,560
the Isica Coral trade.

1821
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:10,960
Speaker 1: He wasn't a playoff player to me, So I'm not

1822
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:13,800
trying to say, ah, they fucked up, Isaaca Korro should

1823
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:16,840
still be there, yep. I just they can do it.

1824
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:18,840
And like you have Evan Mobley and Jared Allence, like

1825
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:21,880
those are your stop gaps. But I would probably still

1826
01:21:22,039 --> 01:21:26,039
like their primary defensive wing when you have Garland and

1827
01:21:26,119 --> 01:21:29,079
Mitchell to be better than what they have right now.

1828
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, you just made me think of

1829
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,079
something I think. Lonzo Ball to me is like the

1830
01:21:35,119 --> 01:21:38,479
Sixers of players in that like you should not expect

1831
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:42,960
full health, but if you get it, he's a huge addition,

1832
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:46,479
like massive to what Cleveland might do. And the Sixers

1833
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:48,479
should not expect full health, but if you get it,

1834
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:51,520
they're like the second, first or second seed in the conference.

1835
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:54,159
So it's like the Ball thing. He just made me think,

1836
01:21:54,199 --> 01:21:56,279
like that was such a great trade because a Coro

1837
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:58,520
just clearly was not gonna be on the floor in

1838
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:00,880
the minutes that mattered, and Ball like absolutely can be

1839
01:22:01,119 --> 01:22:03,359
whether if he plays twenty five regular season games, you'd

1840
01:22:03,359 --> 01:22:04,199
still throw them out there.

1841
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:06,720
Speaker 2: And you know what's interesting, about that is I should

1842
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:07,079
have looked this.

1843
01:22:07,359 --> 01:22:08,560
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was gonna make this point, so

1844
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:09,960
I can't say I should have looked at the numbers

1845
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:13,479
for it. But hasn't it seemed like their offense has

1846
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:16,399
what's lacked the necessary dynamic in a lot of like

1847
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:19,880
the playoff settings, and he's someone who comes in and

1848
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,479
can add just different looks, not just as a shooter

1849
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,279
but like, no, you don't want him breaking down set defenses,

1850
01:22:25,279 --> 01:22:27,079
but as a ball movers, throwing those hit a head

1851
01:22:27,119 --> 01:22:30,239
passes or getting out in transition, like he still does

1852
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:33,119
all that stuff. And so it feels like I know

1853
01:22:33,199 --> 01:22:34,840
what he can do defensively, and I know he's a

1854
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:36,600
good fit, and if you were gonna lose ti Jerome,

1855
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:39,159
like yeah, for sure, but I kind of feel like

1856
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:42,720
where Cleveland is lagged sometimes like he might just add

1857
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:43,960
a dynamic to their offense.

1858
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 2: They had the best postseason offense in the league.

1859
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:47,319
Speaker 1: So I guess I'm just basing this off an eye

1860
01:22:47,319 --> 01:22:51,239
test that was completely wrong through nine games, though, So

1861
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:53,359
I just I feel like their offense could be a

1862
01:22:53,399 --> 01:22:56,680
touch more even if they lost on ball dynamism By

1863
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:58,840
going from Tijerome to Lonzo ball feels like they might

1864
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,000
have opened up more. And like, by the way, the

1865
01:23:01,079 --> 01:23:03,039
other thing is, I don't have we mentioned his name yet,

1866
01:23:03,079 --> 01:23:05,880
Like could Evan Bobley just get better again?

1867
01:23:06,359 --> 01:23:10,359
Speaker 3: Right? Yeah? I he probably will, Like he shouldn't he

1868
01:23:10,399 --> 01:23:12,319
at this at this stage of his career. I think,

1869
01:23:12,399 --> 01:23:18,520
like I just I just think ball, like maybe the

1870
01:23:19,039 --> 01:23:21,840
connective passing is like all it takes. And just having

1871
01:23:22,239 --> 01:23:25,359
like Jerome even he kind of a chorroed in that

1872
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,439
like yeah, it looks good, I mean looked great regular

1873
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:30,000
season and it's like, oh, we kind of can't play

1874
01:23:30,039 --> 01:23:32,359
this guy because it's like bullshit, like leaning into the

1875
01:23:32,399 --> 01:23:35,359
defender doesn't work to defenders that against defenders that have

1876
01:23:35,399 --> 01:23:38,199
scouted it like like that that type of thing like ball,

1877
01:23:38,359 --> 01:23:40,039
I think, I don't know what. I don't know what

1878
01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:43,079
takes ball off the floor other than just health. And

1879
01:23:43,119 --> 01:23:45,920
that's like for a team with Cleveland's ambitions, like that's

1880
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:47,840
the only thing you should care about.

1881
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:53,319
Speaker 1: He is the the Philadelphia seventy six ers of Derek White's.

1882
01:23:53,119 --> 01:23:56,239
Speaker 3: That's what it has to be. Something tying back to

1883
01:23:56,279 --> 01:23:58,720
Derek White, Who's the Derek White, the Derek White.

1884
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,880
Speaker 1: Of who's the Derek White the Derek White of I

1885
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:06,079
don't know, like the I don't know Dwayne Wade. Is

1886
01:24:06,079 --> 01:24:07,720
there something with a Dwayne Wade. I'm just like the

1887
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:08,720
shot blocking guards.

1888
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:10,520
Speaker 2: I don't think that's a word.

1889
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:13,319
Speaker 1: Their their depth, though I think that inoculates them against

1890
01:24:13,399 --> 01:24:16,680
one of the like regular season Pratt falls. Is just

1891
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:19,680
they their floor? So I agree with you probably I'm

1892
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:21,640
pretty much everything you said about the playoffs. What is

1893
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:23,399
their regular season win total floor?

1894
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:24,920
Speaker 2: Is it just fifty? Like?

1895
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:27,319
Speaker 3: Like what is yeah? If I mean if you take

1896
01:24:27,319 --> 01:24:30,039
out it's like it might be like fifty three fifty

1897
01:24:30,079 --> 01:24:34,199
four if you if you just okay, if Garland misses

1898
01:24:34,359 --> 01:24:37,000
forty games or something or Mitchell or whatever, then maybe,

1899
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:40,399
but like it's just it's so high. It's i mean,

1900
01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:42,880
other than why we can't really compare it to the

1901
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:45,159
West because it's such a different environment. But like, I

1902
01:24:45,199 --> 01:24:47,159
don't know, floor wise, I don't think any team in

1903
01:24:47,159 --> 01:24:49,640
this conference is within like five wins.

1904
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:52,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think that's right. I think they're

1905
01:24:52,319 --> 01:24:54,439
gonna win at least five more games than anybody in

1906
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:55,720
the in the East.

1907
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:58,560
Speaker 2: Should we recap see where we have?

1908
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeh, So that I'm sure everybody agree with everything that's

1909
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:01,760
what was going on in the chat.

1910
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:03,239
Speaker 2: As they said, we were one hundred percent right. We

1911
01:25:03,279 --> 01:25:03,960
appreciate it.

1912
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'll start that start a tier F. We've

1913
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:11,479
got Charlotte, Brooklyn, and Washington. I guess in that order?

1914
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:13,800
Do we do we agree on consensus order or does

1915
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:14,359
that even.

1916
01:25:14,159 --> 01:25:16,159
Speaker 1: Mass I kind of feel like there was someone in

1917
01:25:16,159 --> 01:25:17,720
the chat that said the Wizards are going to be

1918
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:20,079
like better than the Hornets, and then I could see

1919
01:25:20,119 --> 01:25:23,000
the Wizards like just like it feels like the Nets

1920
01:25:23,039 --> 01:25:25,199
are gonna try harder to be bad than the Wizards

1921
01:25:25,199 --> 01:25:26,560
this year. So I could do you want to flip

1922
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:27,840
flop Washington in Brooklyn?

1923
01:25:29,039 --> 01:25:33,000
Speaker 3: Sure? Why not? Doesn't make a huge all right? Moving

1924
01:25:33,039 --> 01:25:39,439
on Toronto, Miami, Indiana, and Chicago in the D tier.

1925
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:42,119
I guess these this is your play in tier basically

1926
01:25:43,159 --> 01:25:48,079
above them Detroit, Milwaukee, Boston, Dan exercise a veto moved

1927
01:25:48,079 --> 01:25:51,199
the Hawks two tiers up, but the Sixers tier, which

1928
01:25:51,239 --> 01:25:54,560
is the one above that doesn't really exist. We've decided

1929
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:58,399
they're just like it's like a question, different different dimension.

1930
01:25:59,079 --> 01:26:01,119
So the Sixers are by themselves in the beatire just

1931
01:26:01,159 --> 01:26:04,720
because who the fuck knows Above them, We've got Orlando

1932
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:07,000
in Atlanta, I have no issue with that. I see

1933
01:26:07,039 --> 01:26:09,359
the upside in Atlanta. I did an off season grade

1934
01:26:09,359 --> 01:26:11,039
piece for them and they got an A plus. So

1935
01:26:11,079 --> 01:26:12,560
I don't know what I'm talking. I don't know why

1936
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:16,279
I'm gonna tier Yeah, yeah, just should they even be

1937
01:26:16,359 --> 01:26:19,000
in this conference? Uh? And then above them in the

1938
01:26:19,039 --> 01:26:21,760
top tier. I exercised the veto to get the Knicks

1939
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:25,439
up here alongside the Calves. Uh to the two top

1940
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:27,199
teams in the East. How do you feel?

1941
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:30,279
Speaker 1: I feel I like the Tyo Derek Wise, the Dwayne

1942
01:26:30,319 --> 01:26:31,359
Wade of Eddie Jones is.

1943
01:26:31,359 --> 01:26:32,239
Speaker 2: How you feel about that one?

1944
01:26:32,359 --> 01:26:35,439
Speaker 3: The Dwayne Wade of Eddie Jones is? I love it.

1945
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:38,479
I think that's the That's that's really well said, Starville.

1946
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:40,279
Speaker 1: Other than my Hornets winning eighty two games, you were

1947
01:26:40,279 --> 01:26:41,439
one hundred percent accurate.

1948
01:26:41,439 --> 01:26:43,640
Speaker 2: I'll tell you I favor it. I like it. Thank you, Starville.

1949
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:46,000
This is a fun exercise. We will do it with

1950
01:26:46,039 --> 01:26:46,760
the West at some point.

1951
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:49,079
Speaker 1: But do you have any like final just anything like

1952
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:52,880
coming away from it, like overall arching thoughts about the East?

1953
01:26:53,359 --> 01:26:55,600
Speaker 3: I would say I don't normally feel this way after

1954
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:57,760
we do something like this, But don't you think that

1955
01:26:57,800 --> 01:26:59,840
the tiers kind of for the most part, are like

1956
01:27:00,079 --> 01:27:03,119
fairly clearly delineated. There's like the very worst, there's your

1957
01:27:03,119 --> 01:27:05,760
play in chunk, there's that squishy middle, and then there's

1958
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:07,960
just a couple at the time. I don't know, like normally,

1959
01:27:08,039 --> 01:27:09,560
I feel like there's more room for debate.

1960
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:12,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think aside from the Sixers, it doesn't feel

1961
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:15,239
like there's any major watt Like the Hawks are probably

1962
01:27:15,239 --> 01:27:17,760
the most divisive team in the Eastern Conference, right like

1963
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:20,680
because the Sixers, it's just yeah, if you're gonna tell me,

1964
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:24,479
everybody plays in a bunch of games, like Okay, yeah,

1965
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:26,600
they're gonna be good and if they don't, they're gonna

1966
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:28,319
be bad. So I'm trying to think of, like what's

1967
01:27:28,359 --> 01:27:30,880
the we talk about swing players, what's like the swing team,

1968
01:27:31,359 --> 01:27:34,159
Cause you're if you try to game it and say, well, like,

1969
01:27:34,239 --> 01:27:35,920
is there a team that could really make a mega

1970
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:38,680
trade to try and do something I like, I don't.

1971
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:41,000
I could see it being the Pistons a little bit too,

1972
01:27:41,239 --> 01:27:43,039
but like, could it also be the Hawks, like one

1973
01:27:43,039 --> 01:27:43,880
of those two teams?

1974
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:44,199
Speaker 2: Maybe?

1975
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:46,239
Speaker 3: I think it Like maybe the way to look at

1976
01:27:46,239 --> 01:27:50,319
it is like which team or teams like have the

1977
01:27:50,399 --> 01:27:53,600
opportunity to move like multiple tiers, you know, like and

1978
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:56,159
after it happened, you'd be like, oh, I get it.

1979
01:27:56,239 --> 01:27:58,560
I think the Pistons maybe moving up would be one.

1980
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:01,399
I think Orlando jumping into the very top would be

1981
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:05,000
like that that's on the table. I think I mean

1982
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:09,359
going the other way, certainly Boston or or if there's

1983
01:28:09,399 --> 01:28:12,039
a Giannis trade, Milwaukee could follow a couple of tiers

1984
01:28:12,039 --> 01:28:14,439
into the Just there's the no hope, like we don't

1985
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:15,920
even want to be in the play in level?

1986
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:18,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, is there?

1987
01:28:18,159 --> 01:28:20,840
Speaker 1: Like I can't even spot, like because you can't call

1988
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:23,560
it the Hawks, Like is there a Detroit Pistons from

1989
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:24,760
last year in the conference?

1990
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:27,239
Speaker 2: Like what's the team that's on the younger end? Or

1991
01:28:27,239 --> 01:28:29,279
like that's unproven? Is it? It would have to be

1992
01:28:29,319 --> 01:28:29,880
the Raptors.

1993
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:32,119
Speaker 1: I guess it's just the pick by default actually mean

1994
01:28:32,119 --> 01:28:36,239
the Wizards, well.

1995
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:38,239
Speaker 3: Charlotte if it's like, if you want their team the

1996
01:28:38,239 --> 01:28:40,079
win total, you have to start with a team that

1997
01:28:40,119 --> 01:28:42,760
has has won in the teams and Charlotte would qualify

1998
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:46,640
like they But is Charlotte gonna win forty four games?

1999
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:48,960
Like that's that's your Pistons leap, which is just like,

2000
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:52,680
I don't know, man, that that's that's that's a huge jump.

2001
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:54,520
Speaker 1: You can give me any record prediction for the sixers

2002
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:57,800
and I can't argue. I'd probably be with you. Eurostep

2003
01:28:57,840 --> 01:28:59,239
is the West going to be ok see? And like

2004
01:28:59,279 --> 01:28:59,880
twelve teams?

2005
01:29:00,239 --> 01:29:00,720
Speaker 2: Thanks?

2006
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't thought about it that much yet,

2007
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:06,319
but it could be this one's when the Bucks flipped

2008
01:29:06,359 --> 01:29:08,560
Kuzma and stuff for a real small forward. They'll jump

2009
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:11,000
up carry the hashtag carry the hell on?

2010
01:29:11,279 --> 01:29:13,960
Speaker 2: Thank you Capers here, I did you?

2011
01:29:14,079 --> 01:29:16,800
Speaker 1: I guess my read on the butt the Eurostep podcast

2012
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:18,439
network no better than we did. But like my read

2013
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:20,920
on the Bucks is like they're not like they're saving

2014
01:29:21,399 --> 01:29:23,119
How are they trading Kyle Kuzma?

2015
01:29:23,399 --> 01:29:24,960
Speaker 2: I guess at this point because.

2016
01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:27,800
Speaker 1: I'm assuming they're positive good luck well, because I'm assuming

2017
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:30,680
they won't attach first round equity because they're saving it.

2018
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:32,479
Like the whole idea to me was you bought yourself

2019
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:35,520
another year with Giannis, and now next summer when you

2020
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:37,960
could trade up the three first round picks, you trade

2021
01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:40,439
that with Kyle Kuzma's expiring salary at that point and

2022
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:41,239
then whatever else.

2023
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:43,399
Speaker 2: That's my read on their situation.

2024
01:29:43,199 --> 01:29:45,520
Speaker 1: Like did they sell like if the Bucks get like

2025
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:49,359
a starting caliber wing, then yeah, I'm just trying to think,

2026
01:29:49,399 --> 01:29:51,079
like are they gonna make a Kuzma, Like are they

2027
01:29:51,119 --> 01:29:52,720
gonna be the team that gets Jeremy Grant? And then

2028
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:54,399
I'm gonna have a lot of questions about like what

2029
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:55,520
they're doing that's gonna get that.

2030
01:29:56,199 --> 01:29:59,760
Speaker 3: I just I don't know. I I find myself having

2031
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:03,199
to fight the pessimism when it comes to Milwaukee. I

2032
01:30:03,199 --> 01:30:06,720
don't know why. I just it. It just I don't

2033
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:10,880
know what Yannis and Turner plus some guys gets you.

2034
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:12,760
With coach by Doc Rivers, I don't know what that

2035
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:15,880
gets you. We'll see Rivers throw.

2036
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:19,359
Speaker 1: It's just absolutely savage. Thanks for anyone who's stuck with us. Well,

2037
01:30:19,359 --> 01:30:21,079
I mean this was short for us. Ninety minutes. Is

2038
01:30:21,159 --> 01:30:21,880
light work for this?

2039
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:22,359
Speaker 3: Pretty good?

2040
01:30:22,399 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 2: Yes? Right? Are you have anything else to say or

2041
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:26,239
are you ready to take us out here? Nope?

2042
01:30:26,239 --> 01:30:28,640
Speaker 3: Thanks everybody, Thanks for the comments, Thanks for watching listening.

2043
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,600
Make sure wherever you're consuming this now rate reviews, subscribe.

2044
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:34,359
If you're seeing this on YouTube, way in there, let

2045
01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:36,479
us know, but you use the comments to put in

2046
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:38,640
your whole tiers. It's only fifteen teams like, give us,

2047
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:39,840
give us a can.

2048
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:42,319
Speaker 2: You here's the challenge, can you come up with more tears?

2049
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:46,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, the bar's been said at six for fifteen teams,

2050
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:50,359
so you know, try to really split hair is better

2051
01:30:50,399 --> 01:30:51,960
than wed. Good luck, is what I.

2052
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 2: Would say to you.

2053
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:55,319
Speaker 3: Let's see, tell your friends, tell your enemies. Drawn our

2054
01:30:55,319 --> 01:30:58,319
discord links for that YouTube podcast description. So next time

2055
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:03,199
shouts franklently keen, apologies are a number m