Speaker 1: The Boundless Authenticity Podcast. Thanks for tuning in to another
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Speaker 1: interviews for you. Today's return guest is Nathaniel Gillis, who
Speaker 1: is a paranormal researcher and author of The Skin That Crawls,
Speaker 1: and today we are unveiling the unseen, connecting the dots
Speaker 1: between aliens, demons, and the unknown. Now, we've just had
Speaker 1: a very riveting pre podcast conversation, so maybe I will
Speaker 1: go through that and include some of it near the end,
Speaker 1: because I mean, shit just got really hot. So anyways, Nathaniel,
Speaker 1: how's it going.
Speaker 2: It's going good, brother, Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2: It's it's always a pleasure to be on with you.
Speaker 1: I got to ask this question, and I think I've
Speaker 1: asked you this before, but what is the distinction between
Speaker 1: demons and other malevolent supernatural beings? Are all these entities
Speaker 1: considered demons? Or is their nuances both guys, shadow people,
Speaker 1: all that stuff.
Speaker 2: We could be dealing with partially manifested entities. As far
Speaker 2: as I'm concerned, my model of phenomenon is not that
Speaker 2: they're demonic. The data set doesn't point to that. As
Speaker 2: far as the demonic being construct will, so is the
Speaker 2: extra terrestrial. Matter of fact, we have more evidence of
Speaker 2: the demonic model than we do of the extraterrestrial hypothesis.
Speaker 2: We can get into those case studies too, But my
Speaker 2: model is not that these are demons. And when you
Speaker 2: get into ritual magic, it's very easy to see that
Speaker 2: we have what are called pictorial signatures. There were we know,
Speaker 2: mis sigils, but they were designed for the practitioner to
Speaker 2: conjure another presence to where it could incarnate into this reality.
Speaker 2: Now we're seeing those same sigils on abductees and on
Speaker 2: demoniacs and victims of malevolent hauntings, and not just that,
Speaker 2: but also those who've been disembodied once they get back
Speaker 2: into their body. Whatever these entities are are actually carving
Speaker 2: sigils either into the consciousness or into the soul, and
Speaker 2: then when they return back to their body, it's manifesting
Speaker 2: from underneath the skin of the surface. So that right
Speaker 2: there knocks the demonic hypothesis out contention because our practitioners
Speaker 2: are carving pictorial signatures for them, But why are they
Speaker 2: doing the same thing That would actually kind of suggest
Speaker 2: that they themselves are performing ritual magic on us. And
Speaker 2: so at one level, we have us trying to conjure them. No,
Speaker 2: they're also trying to conjure almost like another another entity
Speaker 2: or another presence above them. So if they're demons, that
Speaker 2: doesn't fit because they also serve different masters. And that's
Speaker 2: why that's kind of why I've been deconstructing the whole
Speaker 2: model of demonology respect to systematic demonology, because it doesn't work.
Speaker 2: And that's the difference between us, you know, not us,
Speaker 2: but you know people in the field that just read
Speaker 2: books about demonology and people that are actually in homes,
Speaker 2: boots on the ground researching. You see that there's pattern
Speaker 2: confirming evidence that does suggest we're dealing with not just
Speaker 2: ritual magic, but a species of sourcer. And that doesn't
Speaker 2: really fit the blueprint of horns and hooves. Now, I
Speaker 2: also believe that there are data points that has confused
Speaker 2: me demonologists right because they see the ritual magic, they
Speaker 2: just don't have a knowledge of ritual magic, and so
Speaker 2: they kind of lump it all together and say, all right,
Speaker 2: cool demons, and it's not it's not. So whatever we're
Speaker 2: dealing with does employ ritual magic, and it's in many
Speaker 2: fields of research. As I said, it's not just in
Speaker 2: a UFO abduction phenomenon. Some of these sigils have been
Speaker 2: carved into crafts craft rather plural, which is another strange interconnectivity.
Speaker 2: So whatever they are, these appear to be more like
Speaker 2: practitioners instead of the actual entities they're trying to contracts.
Speaker 1: Does anybody actually really understand how these things are interacting
Speaker 1: with our physical world.
Speaker 2: It's not just that we don't know what we're measuring.
Speaker 2: We don't know how to measure it. So on one hand,
Speaker 2: it's okay, right, it's okay, we pretty much got an
Speaker 2: energy signature. Yeah, but what is it? Where's it come from?
Speaker 2: This is another argue with the Collins elite, who you know,
Speaker 2: have been recently frowned upon as religious sellots, And that's
Speaker 2: another thing I've been having to do as of lately,
Speaker 2: you know, try to kind of correct some of the
Speaker 2: lie spread about them. But in their research, they were
Speaker 2: taking soil samples from real crop circles in England and
Speaker 2: they found a certain seilar anomaly and a certain energy
Speaker 2: signature in them, and they went back to their laboratories
Speaker 2: they began to perform ritual magic. Ritual magic. I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about white magic. I'm not talking about you know, kumbaya,
Speaker 2: my lord, you know, I'm going to do a certain
Speaker 2: ritual and hope that somebody gets healed. No, it was
Speaker 2: quite literally, I'm going to afflict somebody and the phenomenon incarnated.
Speaker 2: And they were able to monitor and capture the same
Speaker 2: energy signature and the same cellular anomaly in that experiment
Speaker 2: that they found in the crop circles. So whether or
Speaker 2: not they're demonica, I think that I've kind of obviously
Speaker 2: shelved that for the moment. What we're looking at is
Speaker 2: the self same signatures, the self same anomalies in both
Speaker 2: fields of research. Now, what we're looking at with respect
Speaker 2: to our government, to obfuscate that fact is in their
Speaker 2: best interest in something else. I need to highlight it
Speaker 2: wasn't that the Callon's elite came to the conclusion that
Speaker 2: their religion was right. And that's not at all what
Speaker 2: they said. That's another lie being propagated in the field,
Speaker 2: because if that was the case, they would have went
Speaker 2: to everybody and said, listen, here's all the evidence, right,
Speaker 2: it's called evangelism. Come to our churches. We have scientific
Speaker 2: proof that our understanding of the universe, our understanding of God,
Speaker 2: is correct. It's not what they did, not at all.
Speaker 2: They went back to what's called the mosaic law, which
Speaker 2: is not evangelistic. That's keeping Torah. So it literally, whatever
Speaker 2: their data was, their conclusions drew them to the point
Speaker 2: where they said, we're going to kind of deconstruct our
Speaker 2: own theology at this point. And so I don't know
Speaker 2: what they have. I would suggest that whatever they have
Speaker 2: is far darker than just believing in demons. It would
Speaker 2: be something along the lines that we are being formed,
Speaker 2: that we are not in control of our own destinies,
Speaker 2: that belief systems are not real, and that even some
Speaker 2: of the emblems and symbols that we are given do
Speaker 2: not actually mean what we think they mean.
Speaker 1: When you say, symbols and emblems, What do.
Speaker 2: You mean they're talking about this as of late on
Speaker 2: these shows and stuff. There was a group of researchers
Speaker 2: in Russia who were toying with what's called the Kusierov mirror,
Speaker 2: and basically it's modern scrying. It comes from a researcher,
Speaker 2: Nikolay Kosirov, who believe that you could actually, if you
Speaker 2: can bin manner into itself, you can actually bend time.
Speaker 2: And so they took this piece of sheet metal, rolled
Speaker 2: it into itself, placed glass on the inside, and they
Speaker 2: set in front of the mirror. It's a modern form
Speaker 2: of scrine. You know, we've seen that an antiquity. We
Speaker 2: saw it with Edward Kelly and John Dee. But it's
Speaker 2: an active divination and their goal was to kind of
Speaker 2: divine the future and at the very least hope to
Speaker 2: come in contact with something a live form. Perhaps is
Speaker 2: in the middle of one of their experiments that they
Speaker 2: began to see these Sumerian symbols manifest in the mirror.
Speaker 2: One night, they saw what Alistair Crowley called an Enochian
Speaker 2: entity manifested on the other side and began to look
Speaker 2: at them. So one of the researchers decided. You know,
Speaker 2: he said that there was a fear that manifested in
Speaker 2: that room, and they actually scared them to the point
Speaker 2: that they put across a crucifix to the doorframe, and
Speaker 2: it kind of, you know, loosened its grip for a
Speaker 2: period of time. Then it got stronger, and he didn't
Speaker 2: understand it. So he went home and he had a
Speaker 2: favorite philosopher, and this philosopher had what he called the
Speaker 2: emblem of peace, and he placed that emblem in front
Speaker 2: of the mirror, and instead of dissolving or dissipating, the
Speaker 2: terror became incarnent to the point that he said was
Speaker 2: almost like I could reach out and touch it. They
Speaker 2: would leave the room and it would be this kind
Speaker 2: of black cloud that would follow them around the facility. Finally,
Speaker 2: at the end of one of their sessions, they go
Speaker 2: to their cars. On the way out, there's a security
Speaker 2: guard that stops them and says, listen, I don't know
Speaker 2: what you've been doing out there, but there has been
Speaker 2: a silver metallic object hovering over that building for the
Speaker 2: last two hours. It was from that moment that area
Speaker 2: of the world, that city became a hot spot for
Speaker 2: UFOs so already were starting to see an interconnectivity one
Speaker 2: that is widely ignored in upology, and that is the
Speaker 2: divination is leading to aliens, extra terrestrials and UFOs. So
Speaker 2: either aliens are being conjured through sorcery, sorcery is conjuring
Speaker 2: something else that is wanting to appear as alien to us.
Speaker 2: The same thing we saw with John Dne Edward Kelly
Speaker 2: during one of their scrying sessions. They had this ball,
Speaker 2: so it's like a ball, but as a silver object
Speaker 2: surrounded by light, and there were small men inside of
Speaker 2: it flying around the room staring at them. So this
Speaker 2: kind of side note here. They don't want to discuss
Speaker 2: that area of the research because it's the least controlled.
Speaker 2: They don't know what they're conjuring. They don't even know
Speaker 2: if they're the ones being conjured. So there are again,
Speaker 2: these are these corollarias between various fields of research that
Speaker 2: I know that's been looking at, and I don't want
Speaker 2: to ramble cause that's where I'm at. There are connections
Speaker 2: that we're seeing even now in modernity that point right
Speaker 2: back to the concept of the phenomenon being primeval, being ancient,
Speaker 2: in that it's worth us researchers looking back and saying, Okay,
Speaker 2: if they've been aliens all along, why is it that
Speaker 2: early demonologists realized that there are certain whim mars that
Speaker 2: required the same secretions being harvested by the phenomenon. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so these are interconnectivities.
Speaker 1: Now, that's the way it is. Though demons don't like
Speaker 1: the word demons.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's very dark, very dark stuff, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I can go down to a list of researchers who,
Speaker 2: at the very end of their lives they believe they
Speaker 2: have been targeted by the phenomenon, and I have no
Speaker 2: reason to disagree with them. The late Paulino, before he
Speaker 2: passed away, he put a Facebook post out saying he
Speaker 2: started detailing people in the field, even his friends who
Speaker 2: had just mysteriously died He had a mysterious illness or
Speaker 2: some kind of hyper aggressive cancer that took them out.
Speaker 2: And he began to question himself, right, like, is it
Speaker 2: possible that the phenomenon is taking out those individuals that
Speaker 2: are closer to the truth of the others, And so
Speaker 2: it's kind of self correct and it's a control mechanism
Speaker 2: that Jack Valet even highlighted in his work, and you
Speaker 2: kind of take that and you compound that with some
Speaker 2: of the threats I've received from experiencers and abductees, and
Speaker 2: you take that. It's just that there's so many data
Speaker 2: points here. You know. Barbraa Bartholok was told when she
Speaker 2: was abducted that she was due for an adjustment, and
Speaker 2: one year for Thanksgiving, she was traveling to a nursing
Speaker 2: home and a truck just cut her off, flipped her car,
Speaker 2: killed her husband. Doctor Carla Turner was threatened. So it
Speaker 2: literally this is not me being hyperbolic here, but anybody
Speaker 2: and everybody who starts to kind of focus, hyper focus
Speaker 2: on the darker new once to the phenomenon, it comes
Speaker 2: at a cost. You're gonna lose something. And I was
Speaker 2: telling someone the other day that if it's not you,
Speaker 2: it'll be somebody you love. And so I started to
Speaker 2: kind of feel this overwhelming pervasive presence around me. It
Speaker 2: would follow me, you know, and it was affecting my
Speaker 2: mental health. And so that's why I kind of right,
Speaker 2: I told you in the chat, and I even with
Speaker 2: some of my other friends who told them like that,
Speaker 2: I'm getting out, like I'm going to take a step
Speaker 2: back because I'm not sure what the phenomenon is willing
Speaker 2: to do. And because you at the three levels of knowledge,
Speaker 2: the unknown and unknowable, I don't know how close I
Speaker 2: end to this. I don't you know. I could be
Speaker 2: a mile away, or I could be an ent way,
Speaker 2: and so it's it's you just never really know what
Speaker 2: phenomenon is willing to do to keep us silent.
Speaker 1: I haven't explained much about my perspective on it to you, really,
Speaker 1: I have had experiences when I lived in Pennsylvania. So
Speaker 1: I lived in a small town called Whitehall, and it's
Speaker 1: about fifteen minutes away from Allentown, Bethlehem easton Airport. And
Speaker 1: in that area there is a huge police presence, there's
Speaker 1: a huge Masonic presence. It's allegendly an area where it
Speaker 1: is said that the bodies of children were buried underground,
Speaker 1: child sex slaves, and other things like that from the
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds. Things that the Founding Fathers did, basically whatever
Speaker 1: weird rituals they did, things like that. A lot of
Speaker 1: dark stuff happened on the street right next door to me,
Speaker 1: the house next door about twelve years before where I
Speaker 1: moved in, A woman was in her house, her baby
Speaker 1: was upstairs sleeping. She was downstairs cooking something on the stove,
Speaker 1: and she went outside to get the mail or something
Speaker 1: trivial like that, and the house exploded, and the baby
Speaker 1: shot out the top of the house and landed on
Speaker 1: the other side of the street, completely burnt to a crisp.
Speaker 1: All kinds of dark stuff like that has happened around
Speaker 1: the area. At that time, we're talking twenty sixteen, I
Speaker 1: would have been doing a lot of introspection, a lot
Speaker 1: of meditation and stuff like that, and I fully understand
Speaker 1: why Christians would say that meditation is a gateway to
Speaker 1: demonic presence. I fully understand why other different types of
Speaker 1: faiths and stuff would say things like that, you know,
Speaker 1: you gotta be careful, you never know who you're talking to,
Speaker 1: things like that. Because the instant I got good at meditating,
Speaker 1: I saw something that looked like a gray alien in
Speaker 1: my inner vision, but like it was about to come
Speaker 1: through my window. It was just watching me, and it
Speaker 1: was almost like it it was asking the question, WHOA
Speaker 1: this motherfucker has given awful lot of energy? How do
Speaker 1: I get that? You know, That's what it felt like.
Speaker 1: But the amount of paranormal experiences that I had in
Speaker 1: that house increased one hundredfold once I started doing deep
Speaker 1: meditations and stuff like that. And I wonder if there's
Speaker 1: just a certain quality of person that they look for,
Speaker 1: because I've had an experience where I was laying in
Speaker 1: bed and laying on my right side, and the window
Speaker 1: is behind me to the left, and I wake up
Speaker 1: very briefly and these bright lights come through the window,
Speaker 1: and then I was like, I can't even turn over
Speaker 1: to see what's going on. I'm just stuck. And I
Speaker 1: remember going back off to sleep sodas, but when I
Speaker 1: got up the next day, I couldn't go to work
Speaker 1: or anything like that. I was just my stomach was
Speaker 1: just killing me. And nothing like that ever happened before,
Speaker 1: and I don't have any recollection of what happened or anything.
Speaker 1: When I was a child, I would always have these
Speaker 1: experiences in dreams where I would feel like a craft
Speaker 1: would come down above the house, and it would always
Speaker 1: be the same dream sequence. I would be sitting outside
Speaker 1: and it would beam me up, so to speak, and
Speaker 1: I would go in and I wouldn't see any faces,
Speaker 1: but I would feel presences and I would be looking
Speaker 1: through this window down at the earth and this dream recurred.
Speaker 1: It started when I was about four years old, and
Speaker 1: it continued all throughout nine teenage years, at least a
Speaker 1: couple times a year. So I have no idea what
Speaker 1: any of that means whatsoever. That's what got me interested
Speaker 1: in the phenomenon. I started like taking it seriously, except
Speaker 1: that I cannot take it seriously when I hear these
Speaker 1: new age people, because they're the ones that mostly talk
Speaker 1: about it. I can't take Linda Molton how seriously. I
Speaker 1: just I can't. I can't take anybody like that seriously
Speaker 1: because it sounds like crap to me. It sounds like
Speaker 1: lies to me, and truth has a particular frequency. If
Speaker 1: you don't know what that frequency feels like in your body,
Speaker 1: you will be gullible forever. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they will keep pumping out content to you know,
Speaker 2: tickle the years of the masses. And I've you know,
Speaker 2: we've spoken about this before. I've grown disenchanted with the
Speaker 2: field myself because there's it's just get to a certain
Speaker 2: point where it's like that doesn't even smell true like
Speaker 2: I can. Some people don't even realize you can just
Speaker 2: look a thing up on the internet. Just check it
Speaker 2: out right, Oh, that's that's that's factually incorrect, like the
Speaker 2: date's wrong, and so it's just I'm with you on that, brother,
Speaker 2: and to the point now where it's just disgusting to me,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I especially with respect to demonology.
Speaker 2: My first exposure to demonologis in the field were kind
Speaker 2: of It was on accident. I went to a pair
Speaker 2: con and within five minutes of just asking them basic
Speaker 2: questions about systematic demonology that I realized this was just fanfare.
Speaker 2: This is poping circumstance. It's not dedicated to the craft
Speaker 2: of demonology or studying the phenomenon through an anti glins.
Speaker 2: They didn't care. They really did not care. It was
Speaker 2: likes follows views, and they were more of like the
Speaker 2: They were doing cosplay essentially, I mean quite literally, like
Speaker 2: plumbers throughout the week and then a priest on the
Speaker 2: weekends whenever the para conscows and I'm looking at this
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh my god, there's no way. There's
Speaker 2: no way. And this has also caused a problem with
Speaker 2: me in the field because when people hear of demonology,
Speaker 2: they think they kind of want me in with the
Speaker 2: rest and not that I any better or any less.
Speaker 2: I'm just different. And so when they look at me,
Speaker 2: they're thinking, okay, yeah, demonologists take two prayers, call me
Speaker 2: in the morning, and they think I'm kind of right
Speaker 2: the Wikipedia version, oh okay, you know, I know a
Speaker 2: couple of demons or demonic names, and just kind of
Speaker 2: wrap it up from there, and I'm not. And I
Speaker 2: kind of blew through the smoke screen early on, and
Speaker 2: since then it kind of put a bad taste in
Speaker 2: my mouth because when you apology looks at demonology, that's
Speaker 2: all they see, because that's all the field is promoting, right,
Speaker 2: you know, preach the callers, and it's demons, demons, demons.
Speaker 2: There hasn't been a real forensic audit of systematic demonology
Speaker 2: to the point where you say, okay, you know who
Speaker 2: names the namers? How do we even know their names?
Speaker 2: Who named that individual? And how can we trust that?
Speaker 2: And so to a large degree that's been a hamper
Speaker 2: on my own career because there are people that have
Speaker 2: shows and stuff that are like, well, you know, you're
Speaker 2: a demonology just to kind of let you up them.
Speaker 2: They don't really give me the chance to sit there
Speaker 2: in utter words and say okay, can I at least
Speaker 2: build my theory from the ground up before you start
Speaker 2: comparing me and contrasting me to people who take this
Speaker 2: as a hobby and not as a calling. And for
Speaker 2: that reason, you know, I don't know what to call
Speaker 2: myself anymore. Yeah, I don't know what they are, you know.
Speaker 2: I do certainly believe that there are key data points
Speaker 2: that are there exists pattern confirming evidence between demonology and
Speaker 2: whatever we're seeing today, right, And the field doesn't even
Speaker 2: want to have that conversation, not even to entertain it,
Speaker 2: to say, maybe they're not demonic, but maybe there are
Speaker 2: some correlations between the two fields of phenomenology, never going
Speaker 2: to have that conversation. We're the crazy ones.
Speaker 1: Based on my own experiences, I mean, I've seen the
Speaker 1: lights up there in the sky. So I'm back home
Speaker 1: and Arbados, as you may know, and I live on
Speaker 1: the beach. I've always lived on this beach, and so
Speaker 1: just to the left of me is where the beach
Speaker 1: is at, and I was looking in that direction one night.
Speaker 1: I maybe I even told you this story, and I
Speaker 1: had one like the stereotypical abduction type experience where there's
Speaker 1: like a time distortion. My dog was oblivious to what
Speaker 1: was going on. He was just interested in peeing. I
Speaker 1: was trying to get his attention. He couldn't hear me.
Speaker 1: It's almost like everything stopped except for me. And I
Speaker 1: saw this light and it's probably one of the brightest
Speaker 1: lights I've ever seen, just shoot up in a straight
Speaker 1: line up into the sky, and then it's zigzagging all
Speaker 1: across the sky, doing things that you know a plane
Speaker 1: can't do or a helicopter can't do, and then it
Speaker 1: just goes like this and then breaks off at an
Speaker 1: abrupt angle and disappears into the sky. And so because
Speaker 1: of these various experiences, I want to know what the
Speaker 1: heck is going on. And I mean it's not to
Speaker 1: disprove anybody or anything. I just genuinely want to know
Speaker 1: what's going on. But I know what's being said isn't
Speaker 1: the truth, because you can tell. We tell when somebody's
Speaker 1: lying to you, you can tell when somebody's blowing smoke
Speaker 1: up your ass, And so I just that's my take
Speaker 1: on it. I've had people who are for it and
Speaker 1: swear they've been adducted, and I've had you on because
Speaker 1: you're the only one that's saying anything that makes any
Speaker 1: goddamn sense to me, because the last person I spoke
Speaker 1: to was, well.
Speaker 2: I'll take that as a compliment, brother, I needed that.
Speaker 2: It's been a rough one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been saying I've been saying a lot to
Speaker 1: different people, and a lot of them seem to be
Speaker 1: very fanatical about it, and they think that aliens are
Speaker 1: here to save us, and the aliens have always been here.
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't discredit the concept that maybe
Speaker 1: there's aliens living in the middle of the Earth, maybe
Speaker 1: there are other forms of life on other planets that
Speaker 1: I have an interest. I wouldn't discredit that. But where
Speaker 1: the fuck are they? Like, why wouldn't they show up? Yes, regularly?
Speaker 2: Is it? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Humans are just that badshit crazy that they're like, Nah,
Speaker 1: they're narcissists. We are to go no content, you know.
Speaker 2: And this is capture my attention. You know, I've been
Speaker 2: looking at this new evolution new evolutional model of the
Speaker 2: phone phenomenon, I should say, because that's really where the
Speaker 2: government's leading us to. And I've been paying close attention
Speaker 2: to it because when people hear the word alien, they
Speaker 2: think extraterrestrial, that wor could mean plenty of things, you know,
Speaker 2: the inter dimensional, extra temporial and anything and so, but
Speaker 2: but there seems to be a certain model of the
Speaker 2: phenomenon being pushed, which is extraterrestrial. And those of us
Speaker 2: who have boots on the ground, and I'm not talking
Speaker 2: about just studying the phenomenon through history, but literally doing
Speaker 2: in house investigations, the data that we're collecting is not
Speaker 2: confirming the extra terrestrial hypothesis. It's confirming a private, primeval
Speaker 2: presence that can simulate itself into reality to the point
Speaker 2: that we're not sure if we're actually encountering the phenomenon
Speaker 2: the entity, or if we're encountering what's called aty phenomenon,
Speaker 2: something caused by the entity. And parapsychology took a big
Speaker 2: step forward when they realize that even the apparitions were
Speaker 2: being projected by the orbs. They were capturing the orbs
Speaker 2: and other people were capturing the apparitions. That took a
Speaker 2: giantly forward. When people were actually filming the orbs projecting
Speaker 2: the apparitions together, they were moving. And so again, when
Speaker 2: we're looking at phenomenology as a field of research, it's
Speaker 2: important to have that foundation because if we don't, And
Speaker 2: we go out there just throwing anything on the wall
Speaker 2: and anything that sticks is the model of the phenomenon. No,
Speaker 2: it doesn't work out. And this is again another thing
Speaker 2: within euphology. People are trying to kind of redefine the
Speaker 2: history of the phenomenon. They want all of the orbs
Speaker 2: to be UFOs in euphology, it's not true. That's in parapsychology,
Speaker 2: malevel of hauntings. And so when you're looking at this,
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, I said this the other day my
Speaker 2: newly released interviews, But it's like, okay, if we're if
Speaker 2: we're saying they're extraterrestrial, then we have to also say
Speaker 2: they're apparitional because the same orbs we're seeing in uphology
Speaker 2: have been witnessed at parapsychology projecting apparitions that are literally animated.
Speaker 2: So we're going to include those in our model of
Speaker 2: the phenomenon. We have to include other case studies too.
Speaker 2: We just can't ignore them because we don't like them.
Speaker 2: And those case studies include malevel of hauntings where liquid
Speaker 2: blood plasmas pouring from the cupboards and what they're doing
Speaker 2: is they're they're just you know, can veniently skipping over
Speaker 2: that data set, and I'm questioning why because if and
Speaker 2: when they include these case studies into the fold, they're
Speaker 2: going to have to answer for some extremely, extremely dark
Speaker 2: cases where the phenomenon has quite literally done things to
Speaker 2: people without their permission, assaulted them to the one to
Speaker 2: a degree where and this is both the upology and parapsychology,
Speaker 2: where a ball of light descends down upon a victim
Speaker 2: at night and eyewitnesses all that's all they see is
Speaker 2: a ball of light, Envela being the experiencer. The experiencer
Speaker 2: is screaming at the top of their lungs, but the
Speaker 2: witnesses on the outside of the bubble can't even hear her.
Speaker 2: That was supposed to be a poltergeist case study, but
Speaker 2: it's weird because of upology. Doctor Collet Turner had another
Speaker 2: case study exactly like that, but this individual was in bed,
Speaker 2: all of light hovers down and people are watching her.
Speaker 2: She's immobilized, and her testimony was that it was a
Speaker 2: black helicopter. It's just another interconnectivity that they're conveniently ignoring
Speaker 2: because it doesn't fit their model. It doesn't fit the
Speaker 2: prop aganda they're trying to push to the masses. Here's why,
Speaker 2: because if you were to tell, don't you Obviously, if
Speaker 2: they were to tell the populace there's something here, we
Speaker 2: can't control it. We can barely monitor it. It's present
Speaker 2: with but absent from it. Could be visible but not seen,
Speaker 2: meaning just because we see something doesn't really mean that's
Speaker 2: what it is visible. Something's visible, the real entity is
Speaker 2: not being seen. Yes and so yes, so we're looking
Speaker 2: at Okay that disclosure. Yeah, it's not disclosure, my friend,
Speaker 2: It's truly not. It's again framing a narrative in the
Speaker 2: minds of the population because if they told us the truth,
Speaker 2: it would unnerve us because we don't have big enough handcuffs.
Speaker 2: If we lock the door, they'll change the locks. There
Speaker 2: are cases where they've entered into houses, turn the cameras off,
Speaker 2: where the security company dials the phone number. Hi, we
Speaker 2: have an intruder there, but we don't know where he is.
Speaker 2: He's not on camera, but he tripped something. So I
Speaker 2: think that's what we're dealing with. In as long as
Speaker 2: they push the extraterrestrial hypothesis, they don't have to answer
Speaker 2: for why they were coming through Oiji boards. First, that
Speaker 2: part of the phenomenon people don't want to discuss. They'll
Speaker 2: discuss aliens extra tresures all day, They'll discuss hybrids all
Speaker 2: day until you get into the incubi phenomenon, and then
Speaker 2: they'll end shows of them. I'll even go step further.
Speaker 2: They'll talk about right, they'll talk about the Dibik on
Speaker 2: TV shows, but not the d book inpregnating women and
Speaker 2: commandeering the fetus as their own biological avatar. Why because
Speaker 2: those cases are real, but it won't sell books, it
Speaker 2: won't put butts in seats, and they can't monetize it.
Speaker 2: In a part of this, a part of the field
Speaker 2: is now responsible for the way the phenomenon is incarnating
Speaker 2: it because there's a divide between the real phenomenon, historical
Speaker 2: case studies documented, and just the pomp and circumstance cause
Speaker 2: play cases that people are monetizing for content. And in
Speaker 2: that gap, the phenomenon says, Okay, if I can be
Speaker 2: whatever is popular, people won't even know what I've been
Speaker 2: doing throughout history. So that's my point, and you know,
Speaker 2: that's why it's so important for people that are doing research,
Speaker 2: not just read books. It's again, in my career, I've
Speaker 2: always been trying to do a balance, at least a
Speaker 2: healthy balance. You have to have boots on the ground
Speaker 2: in the homeless researchers, because what we're seeing again on
Speaker 2: television isn't what's happening. Even in the hearings. It's great
Speaker 2: for views, and we'll have shows talking about, oh my god,
Speaker 2: you know it was a great testimony, is a great witness.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, the conversation, the
Speaker 2: most modern cutting as research being done right now is
Speaker 2: asking the question, why is it that they require alters?
Speaker 2: Why is it that Chris Bloodsoe has to basically worship orbs?
Speaker 2: I mean, what are we thinking here, my friend? I'm
Speaker 2: obviously I'm not talking to you, but i mean, really, okay, yes,
Speaker 2: you're beautiful, thank you. At what point does that be
Speaker 2: Comportion's that's where I'm am. And they don't want to
Speaker 2: have that conversation because it takes them into areas that
Speaker 2: they will be responsible for. It doesn't fit the extraterrestrial narrative.
Speaker 1: Now people refuse to accept the idea that the media
Speaker 1: is a virus. In fact, one of the easiest ways
Speaker 1: to really come to understand that phenomenon if you have
Speaker 1: an open mind because a lot of people say they
Speaker 1: have open minds, but unfortunately, as a mental health practitioner
Speaker 1: or a person who works in a psychotherapeutical counseling profession
Speaker 1: or anything like that, you learn that when you're dealing
Speaker 1: with people, openness and receptivity are two different things. One
Speaker 1: of the greatest books that could explain to people exactly
Speaker 1: how this all works is but by Douglas Rushkoff. It's
Speaker 1: called Media Virus, and it came out in nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 1: but you know, nineteen ninety six is some time ago now.
Speaker 1: And he also wrote another book called program or Be Programmed,
Speaker 1: and I think that came out in two thousand and something.
Speaker 1: And Why We Listened To What They Say was another
Speaker 1: book he wrote, and that came out in two thousand
Speaker 1: as well. But those books explain exactly how all of
Speaker 1: these things are propaganda. It'sed and then, and I haven't
Speaker 1: even read it yet. But one of the books that
Speaker 1: I have on my list is Messengers of Deception, UFO,
Speaker 1: Contacts and Cults Jacques Ballet, right and Wonderful Boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think he's a very interesting person to listen to
Speaker 1: because I don't even know if I trust him at
Speaker 1: this point, but just based on hearing some of the
Speaker 1: other stuff that he said, I wonder what his true
Speaker 1: position is on all of this, you know, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 2: Well, his library is probably in clactic leg mine. I
Speaker 2: remember Dinah wal Sposuko when she went into the chocole
Speaker 2: A's libraries found books on devil's and evens. So the
Speaker 2: honest researches in the field were people that actually know.
Speaker 2: I hate to be an arrogant. I don't mean to be,
Speaker 2: but people who who at least have a history of phenominology,
Speaker 2: they know what they're looking at. It might not be demonic,
Speaker 2: it might not even be angelic, but there's something superior
Speaker 2: to nature here, and whatever that is, it's been documented
Speaker 2: throughout history and so yeah, but to your point, yes,
Speaker 2: is yeah. She mentioned how he pointed it a book
Speaker 2: on the devil written by I think they were Catholic nuns.
Speaker 2: So he's well on it, brother, he's well on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I give respect to anybody that is open minded
Speaker 1: enough to go both ways on things, because I'm saying
Speaker 1: this to somebody yesterday another podcast guest that the reason
Speaker 1: why people don't get it is because wisdom isn't something
Speaker 1: that you can tell anyone, You can't pass it on
Speaker 1: to anybody. Wisdom has to be self realized. But not
Speaker 1: enough people spend time in quiet reflection or quiet study
Speaker 1: to actually engage those faculties anymore. And that's what the
Speaker 1: Internet has done to us. You know, the Internet has
Speaker 1: come along and it's given people who would ordinarily be
Speaker 1: called basement dwellers, you know, the ones that are probably
Speaker 1: somewhere in the basement wank and off somewhere in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety one, you know, coming up with these weird ideas
Speaker 1: about things that given all those people platforms to just
Speaker 1: talk shit. And for some reason, we gravitate towards I
Speaker 1: don't know why, I'm including you and me and.
Speaker 2: The Wii, but.
Speaker 1: People, we gravitate towards the ignorance of others, and that's
Speaker 1: what we get drawn into. And like I said prior,
Speaker 1: I don't even really trust like Linda moltenhow or anybody
Speaker 1: like that. I don't care what evidence she has, because
Speaker 1: in another breath she always comes up with this stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: oh well, there was a document on the table, and
Speaker 1: you know I wasn't allowed to look at it, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, so you were in the room with
Speaker 1: the document, but you couldn't. You could see it on
Speaker 1: the table across from you, but you can't touch it.
Speaker 1: And how did you, Yeah, how did you end up
Speaker 1: in that room in the first place? Linda? You know,
Speaker 1: she says stuff like this which discredits her, you know,
Speaker 1: m Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what though, honestly, this field has taken
Speaker 2: the best out of the best and at a certain
Speaker 2: point in your career. And I've experienced this myself, where
Speaker 2: you've covered every subject that's interested you, every one of them.
Speaker 2: And I don't know. I can't, I can't. I don't
Speaker 2: know what's going on with her. I I've never met her.
Speaker 2: I do have books, people have set me books of hers,
Speaker 2: and I am aware that in her prime at least,
Speaker 2: and I hate to say it like that too, that's awful.
Speaker 2: But she had, Yeah, she communication. We're not in Rayoshet,
Speaker 2: but members of the Collins elite, and they were kind
Speaker 2: of explaining to her, you know, at the height of
Speaker 2: her career, hateless and there's some of the conclusions we're
Speaker 2: coming to you. Then in other conclusions they kind of
Speaker 2: shot away from giving her. But you know, there are
Speaker 2: those in the field that and again with John Valley,
Speaker 2: he's one off. I mean, he's a pioneer. And when
Speaker 2: you start getting into the deeper researchers, you see that
Speaker 2: they're more than willing to kick down all models, to
Speaker 2: collapse all the walls upon themselves if they can get
Speaker 2: us to a hypothesis that includes more data points. And
Speaker 2: that's something. And even my new book Crawls, the book
Speaker 2: cover on my Instagram is an homage to him, And
Speaker 2: basically I'd centered around the idea that there are no
Speaker 2: horns hooks, that these are practitioners that have been wearing
Speaker 2: the mask of horns hooves, and this is something that
Speaker 2: I need to highlight. And I've said it before, but
Speaker 2: I want to kind of kind of go deeper if
Speaker 2: I may. When we hear people saying, okay, I saw
Speaker 2: a demon or a devil in my home, I always thought, Okay,
Speaker 2: what did it look like. It wouldn't they tell me, Oh,
Speaker 2: it had giant horns and it had hooks. That's not
Speaker 2: the devil. Devil's never been described in any writing, at
Speaker 2: least the Holy writ in the Bible as having horns
Speaker 2: and hubs. And there's a dragon coming out of the
Speaker 2: ocean and revelation, that's a dragon with horns. You know
Speaker 2: what they're not seeing, my friend, a dragon with horns
Speaker 2: and theirs. Right, this is again being victimized by an
Speaker 2: archetypal presence, where the phenomenon is leaning on the illiteracy
Speaker 2: of the masses. As long as we think that's a demon,
Speaker 2: we won't really ask what it.
Speaker 1: Is, right And for those of us controls fromybody's perceptions
Speaker 1: of what a demon should look, right, well.
Speaker 2: There we go. So, yeah, there's there's the weaponization of
Speaker 2: the archetype, and it's called perception management, and that's pretty
Speaker 2: much summed up in the book cover of Mind. But
Speaker 2: that that's where I'm at. And my point here is
Speaker 2: that those of us who who are not I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna let myself in with je because he's one of
Speaker 2: the goats. But when you get down to the base
Speaker 2: nature of us, you look at the footnotes throughout history, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's quite obvious we could put whatever term we want
Speaker 2: on them. There are behavioral patterns that are in religious
Speaker 2: across cultural and the only way that phenomenon has existed
Speaker 2: with us present with but absent from is by incarnating
Speaker 2: as these archetypes to where we we it's present with us,
Speaker 2: but we don't really know what it is, you know,
Speaker 2: And that's a rather disturbing new ones because it's almost
Speaker 2: like the phenomenon plays us like an artificial intelligence like AI,
Speaker 2: and it's at certain times throughout history you will self
Speaker 2: update MH. Like if we were in a different part
Speaker 2: of the world and their demons look different than our demons,
Speaker 2: it would it would it would. It would appear as
Speaker 2: that we do the same thing the phenomenon does. But
Speaker 2: that's the thing. It's not extraterrestrial, right, And then you
Speaker 2: go to is Le Mill, that's the gin. They're doing
Speaker 2: the same things. Well, that's the gin, and they're seeing
Speaker 2: the same thing in their homes. So the phenomenon is
Speaker 2: catering to trends. It's leaning into archetypes as a way
Speaker 2: to manage our perception of it. That would be a
Speaker 2: kin to my friend you only encountering one person throughout
Speaker 2: your lifetime. Everywhere you go, it's the same person, and
Speaker 2: they're often present with each other. You know, by logic, No,
Speaker 2: that's impossible, all right, they're not all the same person.
Speaker 2: It's something that's appearing as that as these archetypes in
Speaker 2: order to deceive us. And the same thing goes on
Speaker 2: with the guide archetype. And I've done lectures on I
Speaker 2: don't want to it's too much, it's for bose. My
Speaker 2: point is that I think that if we're going to
Speaker 2: get closer to what this phenomenon represents, we don't need
Speaker 2: to study the trees or the leaves. Rather, you want
Speaker 2: to study the tree, don't study the leaves. You got
Speaker 2: to study the roots. And the roots are anti antiquated
Speaker 2: that they're they're antique. Rather they're altars, conjuring, summoning, ritual matchment.
Speaker 2: That's what we're doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is why I lean in the direction that
Speaker 1: you're going. And you've inspired me to do a lot
Speaker 1: of reading as well, Like I've I've gotten a copy
Speaker 1: of Malachi Mark and the wind Sweat House and the Jesuits.
Speaker 1: I haven't read them yet, but I have them there.
Speaker 1: Because some of the things that you say are just
Speaker 1: so I thought provoking. If you have a brain, of
Speaker 1: course they're thought provoking. If not, then you know you're
Speaker 1: going to continue to the information. Hm.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I did a show. Well I didn't do
Speaker 2: a show, but it was released the other day. Picked
Speaker 2: their comments and you know, alters like they have no idea,
Speaker 2: Like they're thinking, I'm making this up. That's what blows
Speaker 2: my mind. And it's because your pology is controlling the narrative. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they don't want you know, they don't want to tell us. Hey, listen,
Speaker 2: I am constructing an altar in the desert. All they're
Speaker 2: telling us is I saw Ufo telling us I had
Speaker 2: to build the altar in order to see it, or
Speaker 2: I had to go out there and posture myself. So
Speaker 2: when those when there's only half the story being told,
Speaker 2: we're missing other contexts that would provide a larger understanding
Speaker 2: of what we're dealing with.
Speaker 1: And this is how a particular group of individuals always operates. Anyway.
Speaker 1: They tell you two truths and a lie, and then
Speaker 1: they backtrack on one of the truths, and then you're
Speaker 1: left with a half truth and half a lie, and
Speaker 1: then they take away a little bit more from the
Speaker 1: first truth, and so it confuses people. And that's their strategy.
Speaker 1: It's all. That's always been their strategy. And I mean,
Speaker 1: I've read one of the books, like I forget what
Speaker 1: the name of that book is now from nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 1: One of the books that you mentioned by Kara La
Speaker 1: Turner Turner.
Speaker 2: And it might have been mascread of Angels.
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't that one. I think it was that one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I read it last year after we talked, and it
Speaker 1: just it made me think even more critically about the
Speaker 1: phenomenon because, Okay, so she's talking about her experiences with
Speaker 1: abduction and stuff like that. She's talking about her husband
Speaker 1: and how he was affected by it and things like that.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, I remember I had
Speaker 1: this picture on my phone and that was taken over
Speaker 1: eastern Pennsylvania. Now that's what appears to be a man
Speaker 1: made craft eye, and it goes to remind me that
Speaker 1: this is the extreme to which this phenomenon is being perpetuated. So,
Speaker 1: now is it government experiments or is it really just
Speaker 1: some kind of paranormal presence that's doing this, or is
Speaker 1: it both at the same time, who's controlling who? It
Speaker 1: makes me ask all these questions. And then what you
Speaker 1: were saying about, like the scrying reminded me of classified
Speaker 1: documents that I've read in my research on mind control
Speaker 1: about the mon talk chair where one subject is sitting
Speaker 1: in the mond talk chair and the controller tells him
Speaker 1: don't think about any monsters or demons or anything like that.
Speaker 1: And as soon as he says that, well, what happens
Speaker 1: in the subconscious mind? Went you say, don't? It does?
Speaker 1: So out from the portal manifests this big horned demon
Speaker 1: and it's running around the lab destroying everything, and they're
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to get rid of it,
Speaker 1: how to kill it, right, because it's come through and
Speaker 1: it can't get back through from whence it came, so
Speaker 1: to speak. So, oh yeah, they're doing these things all
Speaker 1: the time. They're bringing It's like it goes back to
Speaker 1: your question who's conjuring who? But at the same time
Speaker 1: thought makes it so apparently, because if you can just
Speaker 1: sit in that motop churn anything you think of, when
Speaker 1: you think of a cheeseburger, it shows up. You know
Speaker 1: instantly what else could be happening out there?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, this gets into tulpa Mancy and my theory
Speaker 2: that see it again into pendiddhism the taupa again, it's
Speaker 2: a life form, right, it's somehow thoughts more consciousness right, yeah,
Speaker 2: thought form r Yeah, it becomes a life form, is
Speaker 2: what I'm mean. Yeah, And so my hypothesis is there's
Speaker 2: a difference between the archetype we project on it and
Speaker 2: the actual independent, exterior entity wearing the archetype as a mask.
Speaker 2: And so in my research, specifically with the Ghost of Philip,
Speaker 2: the Philip Experiment, and other incubied cases, there's part of
Speaker 2: confirming evidence to prove that the tulpa is not just
Speaker 2: the thought form, it's the entity forming the thought that
Speaker 2: becomes the thought form. And so there is a connection
Speaker 2: of consciousness to where once I lay eyes on the entity,
Speaker 2: the entity uses my consciousness to construct its a constructive archetype.
Speaker 2: I've experienced this. Not that I'm right, I'm not creating
Speaker 2: the entity. I'm merely creating the mask. It incarnates sense
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry to interrupt you thereby. Why that's interesting
Speaker 1: to me is because there's plenty of research on consciousness
Speaker 1: and especially how we experience a light phenomena and goes
Speaker 1: into our eyes first and it's projected back out as
Speaker 1: jet to see right. So, yes, you know since that
Speaker 1: effect on us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a learning matrix present. And I encountered that
Speaker 2: a long time ago. I went to bed one night
Speaker 2: and I had an entity straddling me. It was in
Speaker 2: a dream on top of me. Right, I wake up
Speaker 2: and it's my fiance. At the time, I'm like, what
Speaker 2: in the world, No, how did it get that archetype
Speaker 2: for me? And here is the problem. If the phenomenon
Speaker 2: can come to us, the mask itself, by coming through us,
Speaker 2: it then is almost it's parasitic and symbiotic at the
Speaker 2: same time, it's it's entering into us in order to
Speaker 2: project an image upon itself. And so how can you
Speaker 2: disagree with me? I'm you, I'm visible, but you can't seeming.
Speaker 2: So the mask and the archetype is visible, but the
Speaker 2: entity remains unseen. The phenomenon remains invisible. It's present with
Speaker 2: but that's it from. And so if you kind of
Speaker 2: take that into ecubyte cases, it's through and through. Now,
Speaker 2: if we also extrapolate dauphology, what makes us think we
Speaker 2: could be so confident that they're alian if we know
Speaker 2: they've weaponized the archetypes of our consciousness. They're the thought
Speaker 2: form that creates the form of thought. But then they're
Speaker 2: the form of thought that projects the thought form. And
Speaker 2: so we are interfacing with archetypes from our own consciousness
Speaker 2: and subconsciousness, and it's that cognitive interface that we have
Speaker 2: to see through. I don't care what we call it.
Speaker 2: I don't care what it wants us to project it as.
Speaker 2: What is it doing? And again I think this is
Speaker 2: why it's diversified, not just why, but how it's diversified
Speaker 2: itself in our eyes to where it's fae over there,
Speaker 2: but its demons over here. Why it's hiding behind religious
Speaker 2: tradition in much of that is not even biblically accurate
Speaker 2: in terms of demonology, it's not. And this goes back
Speaker 2: to show us this is propaganda and a lot of
Speaker 2: this is designed to manufacture.
Speaker 1: Consent precisely, precisely, and it's all about manufacturing consent and
Speaker 1: manufacturing victims and manufacturing these experiences. Because even in my work,
Speaker 1: I speak about how people will develop belief systems or
Speaker 1: emotional responses to things due to a part of the brain.
Speaker 1: It's called the stress fhere memory pathway, and it has
Speaker 1: to do with your prefrontal cortex, which is the beginning
Speaker 1: of every pathway in the brain to begin with. So
Speaker 1: once the prefrontal cortex deactivates when you're watching any screen,
Speaker 1: then everything becomes a direct input and so in that
Speaker 1: stress fear memory pathway, you have the migdala, which is
Speaker 1: the stress and fear, and you have the hypothalamus, which
Speaker 1: is your hormones, and then you have the hippocampus, which
Speaker 1: is your memory. So it's kind of akin to the
Speaker 1: brain being like a tape recorded limic system being like
Speaker 1: a tape recorder, and the hippocampus is actually the tape
Speaker 1: where false memories are installed, where that's where the archetypes
Speaker 1: are put in. Because there's been tons of research even
Speaker 1: before Carl Jung came out and said anything about archetypes,
Speaker 1: to suggest that those who control the world are controlling
Speaker 1: us through these archetypes and just installing these these ideas
Speaker 1: of about what certain things should look like. And so
Speaker 1: your theory makes one hundred and ten sense to me
Speaker 1: because that's been the game, and that is the game
Speaker 1: that they're running, and it always has been and it
Speaker 1: always will be because it's not even you know, I
Speaker 1: take back something that I said about humans being idiotic.
Speaker 1: I mean, I include myself in that too, but it's
Speaker 1: just we just don't know what we don't know. Most people,
Speaker 1: the average person on the street is concerned about working
Speaker 1: a nine to five job. Maybe they got another shift
Speaker 1: later on. So they're not keeping their eyes on the price,
Speaker 1: they're not keeping their eyes on the ball. So when
Speaker 1: they experience these abduction phenomenons or you know, they have
Speaker 1: a crisis and emotional crisis and that leads them to
Speaker 1: diving into some spiritual reality or some kind of faith,
Speaker 1: they're completely not inside themselves enough to understand that where
Speaker 1: they are is a place of panic. When you're in
Speaker 1: a place of panic, you're just looking for help. You're
Speaker 1: in survival mode, and so you will look for any
Speaker 1: information that will confirm what you're looking to confirm at
Speaker 1: the moment to stay safe. And that's what the subconscious
Speaker 1: mind is looking to do. He wants to keep you
Speaker 1: safe at all times, even if what it believes is
Speaker 1: disruptive or just complete garbage, it doesn't matter. It's about
Speaker 1: a false sense of security, it's not about what's really happening.
Speaker 1: And so well, when you're fighting, yeah, when you're fighting
Speaker 1: against a biological reality like that, how do we even
Speaker 1: achieve a mass disclosure? How do we even shift people's
Speaker 1: perceptions and shift people's enough to turn them in that direction.
Speaker 2: I'll we give you a case study an kind of
Speaker 2: really really underlining where we are with the phenomenon, if
Speaker 2: we want to be truthful. Doctor Carli Turner, her son
Speaker 2: was being adopted, and he comes to her and says, Mom,
Speaker 2: I don't know how to deal with this anymore. I
Speaker 2: think I need to tell you what's going on. She
Speaker 2: gets on the phone with his biological father, who's remarried.
Speaker 2: Now they get a family meeting together. In the middle
Speaker 2: of this family meeting, her husband or ex husband, her
Speaker 2: son's father says, Carla, don't you remember when you had
Speaker 2: that miscarriage. This woman is an abduction researcher. Her job's
Speaker 2: not just to remember what happened to her. Her a job,
Speaker 2: right and her calling is to remember what happened to
Speaker 2: everybody else too that she was working with. And she says,
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about. He goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: you do, Carla. You were pregnant. They implanted a baby
Speaker 2: in you, and you carried it, and you miscarried, and
Speaker 2: you were devastated, and even all of your friends, as
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, she was bleeding Catholic. Matter of fact,
Speaker 2: she went to all of her friends, and all of
Speaker 2: her friends knew of this. The phenomenon blocked that memory
Speaker 2: from her own mind. She was in the middle of
Speaker 2: doing research, not realizing what the phenomenon had actually done
Speaker 2: her too. So when we're talking about existential crisis, we're
Speaker 2: talking about a mental health issue.
Speaker 1: Right, I know that you've seen I remember the book
Speaker 1: It's Into the Fringe.
Speaker 2: Yes, oh, there we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a
Speaker 2: good book too. Yeah. And so right, what we're looking
Speaker 2: at is quite literally, somebody and let's say old man
Speaker 2: sitting in their chair looking up at the clock and
Speaker 2: that's eleven thirty, looking up down at the book. Look
Speaker 2: and it's one in the morning, one seamless stream of consciousness, uninterrupted,
Speaker 2: and yet time is gone. So it would be an
Speaker 2: ontological shock of apocalyptic proportion. And of course they don't
Speaker 2: want to say that, because now we're questioning reality itself,
Speaker 2: we're questioning our own autonomy, we're questioning free will. And
Speaker 2: something I've been studying lately here it's very it's about
Speaker 2: a spore. So I watched the video. That's a spore
Speaker 2: goes out, it infects and possesses a translatet and then
Speaker 2: brings that translah over to its habitat. And when when
Speaker 2: it gets in vulnerable into that habitat. Then that that
Speaker 2: sport takes completely, completely over it, over the trench. So
Speaker 2: something needs to be in us, he says, Okay, I
Speaker 2: want you to go look, and slowly but surely, it
Speaker 2: positions others closer to its habitat. We've seen this in
Speaker 2: antiquity with respect to the altar building. Our ancestors realize
Speaker 2: very quickly the phenomenon is more present here than it
Speaker 2: is here, say build their altars. Where are the phenomenons?
Speaker 2: And so this gets back to the idea. At what
Speaker 2: point does the practitioner realize that they are the one
Speaker 2: being contured, They're the one who's being led to the
Speaker 2: phenomenon and there is again this is okay, building an altar. Really,
Speaker 2: I'm building you. You're my alter you. Consciousness itself has
Speaker 2: the ability to conjure, and so this, this entire dynamic,
Speaker 2: this relationship is it's it's troubling, but it is fascinating.
Speaker 1: But exactly that's what manifestation is conjuring.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why, Okay, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: like this idea of manifestation that has come into public
Speaker 1: consciousness now because where it's coming from is dark occultism. Essentially,
Speaker 1: they're telling you, hey, just do a bunch of dark
Speaker 1: shit and you know, bring all these things into your life.
Speaker 1: But one of the problems with manifestation that it's common
Speaker 1: that people don't realize is that entities will mess with you.
Speaker 1: They will completely fuck with you. You will meditate, and
Speaker 1: you will, you know, do whatever ritual it is that
Speaker 1: you've seen your Internet guru tell you to do. And
Speaker 1: those guys, they either a lot of them either know
Speaker 1: what they're into and they're not saying or they don't
Speaker 1: know because their regurgiting is something that somebody else has said.
Speaker 1: And they're getting people to open portals inside their houses,
Speaker 1: you know, open up the natural portals that they have
Speaker 1: in their mind and bring these entities in. And the
Speaker 1: energies love that because, let's say you want a thousand dollars, okay,
Speaker 1: that entity is going to go and bring you something
Speaker 1: that matches what you're asking for, and then as quickly
Speaker 1: as it brought it to you, he will take something
Speaker 1: else from you.
Speaker 2: Yes, And they don't have the time of it's choosing.
Speaker 2: There's a research name of all. Kobmaly has a YouTube channel,
Speaker 2: but he does a lot of work, at least research
Speaker 2: about the gen and he's in contact with people who
Speaker 2: are practitioners, and yeah, we're talking about people who've made sacrifices,
Speaker 2: human sacrifices. People. That's just movies, it's not it's no.
Speaker 2: You know, I want I want to have a promotion.
Speaker 2: I have, but you know I want money, I want wealth. Okay,
Speaker 2: what are youna? What are you gonna put on altar?
Speaker 2: So you know, in the call of elite researchers, they
Speaker 2: encountered a faction within our own gunman who were doing that.
Speaker 2: And not just that, but ten minutes from my house
Speaker 2: I live in Danton High I mean, they're they're they're
Speaker 2: right ped air force space. What are we doing? We're
Speaker 2: doing rituals. And it concerns me because when you have
Speaker 2: physicists who are completely it's just basically abandoning the scientific
Speaker 2: method entirely. Why Because they were realized a long time ago.
Speaker 2: There's what we wanted from the phenomenon, and then there's
Speaker 2: what the phenomenon wants from us, and those are incompatible
Speaker 2: with the model that we're being presented today.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Yeah. So now I've had previous guests on
Speaker 1: this podcast that have implants, and most recently she had
Speaker 1: like an X was carved into her ass actually like
Speaker 1: both ass cheeks and stuff like that is I don't
Speaker 1: want to use the word fascinating. It actually disturbs me
Speaker 1: more than it fascinates me, because, yeah, because these things
Speaker 1: are able to do things to you and I even
Speaker 1: I've had experiences where I've had like what I thought
Speaker 1: was a bad dream and I wake up and there's
Speaker 1: like these two things that look like a spider bite
Speaker 1: on the inside of my thigh or things like that,
Speaker 1: you know, and I mean, stuff like that's been going on. Well,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say it's been going on because it doesn't
Speaker 1: happen anymore. But it's like I was saying to you
Speaker 1: about when I first started meditating, how paranormal experiences seem
Speaker 1: to increase one hundredfold. And once I learned how to
Speaker 1: actually meditate properly and shut all of that other stuff out,
Speaker 1: then those kinds of things stopped happening. But they were
Speaker 1: happening before I was fully in control of my consciousness,
Speaker 1: when I would have been more in a and unaware
Speaker 1: on a sleep phase, you know, early in my childhood
Speaker 1: or early in my teenage years and things like that.
Speaker 1: Stuff like that would happen, and it was common with
Speaker 1: us because where I live now in Barbados is it's
Speaker 1: always been a psychic hotspot. We have plenty of folklore
Speaker 1: and stuff here. Like the steel donkey. I've heard it.
Speaker 1: You just hear like the sound of hoogs and chains
Speaker 1: dragging on the floor outside your window. You dare not
Speaker 1: look outside because you know that's a phenomenon, all the
Speaker 1: steel donkey, and you don't want to mess with it.
Speaker 1: Seen things like I think it's called a dwin or
Speaker 1: something like that, but it's a very attractive lady that
Speaker 1: appears and you know, she basically takes a hold of
Speaker 1: your consciousness and so you can only gaze at her
Speaker 1: eyes and you see her beauty, you see just about
Speaker 1: her torso or whatever. But if you're able to break
Speaker 1: that hypnotic spell that she has on you, you notice
Speaker 1: that her feet are actually inverted, they turn backwards, and
Speaker 1: she basically what she does, she leads you into this
Speaker 1: cane field or into the forest or anywhere like that.
Speaker 1: It's a common bit of folklore that exits across the Caribbean.
Speaker 1: So I've seen things like that and I've seen like
Speaker 1: coffins in the middle of the road while I'm driving
Speaker 1: at night in the countryside. I've seen balls of fire
Speaker 1: in the sky, which I think some people say that
Speaker 1: that's a hag flying through the sky or something like that.
Speaker 1: I've actually had experience with what I believe is a hag.
Speaker 1: Is this old lady that she wanted. Basically, my mother
Speaker 1: would felt sorry for this old lady, and she kept
Speaker 1: giving her rides home, and like she would buy her
Speaker 1: things like shoes and food and clothes and things like that.
Speaker 1: And I said to my mom listened, that old lady
Speaker 1: is not an old lady, like you can see that
Speaker 1: the difference in her eyes, that that's not a human.
Speaker 1: That's something. And she didn't believe me. And one day
Speaker 1: I saw the old lady walking coming down the road
Speaker 1: and I was walking going up on the other side
Speaker 1: of the road, and I looked at her and I
Speaker 1: said in my mind to her, I know exactly what
Speaker 1: you are. And this old lady dropped her cane and
Speaker 1: took off running like she was a toddler and disappeared.
Speaker 1: She basically disappeared from one side of the highway and
Speaker 1: reappeared on the other side of the highway. Now, that's
Speaker 1: an entity. Humans don't do that, you know, and then
Speaker 1: took off, so and that lady never reappeared again, and
Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks later, my mom was like,
Speaker 1: I wonder whatever happened to that old lady? And this
Speaker 1: is over twenty years that this happened, now, But I
Speaker 1: told her, you know, I told her what happened, and
Speaker 1: she was kind of like in disbelief at first, but
Speaker 1: then she started to really question what I was saying.
Speaker 1: There's all these different paranormal phenomena, and it all seems
Speaker 1: to be in alignment with the things that you're talking about,
Speaker 1: because I think that that's one way that they can
Speaker 1: get to you two through your kindness. I just don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know that there's a difference between ets and
Speaker 1: aliens and demons and all these things anymore. I don't
Speaker 1: know that any of what you know. And they can
Speaker 1: come after me with the witch hunt too, I'm ready,
Speaker 1: But I don't know if any of these experiencers really
Speaker 1: truly understand what they have experienced enough to be talking
Speaker 1: about it. They're just listening to people fill the gaps
Speaker 1: for them, because that's what people do something happens, and
Speaker 1: anyone can come along. It could be let's say, if
Speaker 1: it's an et phenomenon, an abduction, it could be a
Speaker 1: paranormal researcher. It could be a ufologist, It could be
Speaker 1: fucking William Shatner, it could be anybody could be your therapist.
Speaker 1: But whatever it is you say to a person when
Speaker 1: they're in crisis, their mind is automatically going to fill
Speaker 1: the gaps, and so they really don't know what they
Speaker 1: don't know. They really don't understand the phenomenon, and the
Speaker 1: brain is doing what it's supposed to do by keeping
Speaker 1: you in a shell and giving you a tunnel vision,
Speaker 1: So you're not really going to understand what happens. And
Speaker 1: I have to mention that because of you. Again, I
Speaker 1: read Nigel Kerner's Gray Aliens and The Harvesting of Souls
Speaker 1: and that completely filled in some more gaps that changed
Speaker 1: my perception about these different things. And so why am
Speaker 1: I saying all this? Because I want anybody that's listening
Speaker 1: to this episode to ask the question, how open minded
Speaker 1: am I really? What do I actually know about this
Speaker 1: phenomenon that hasn't been given to me by somebody else
Speaker 1: in the mainstream, and you know, question your own real,
Speaker 1: true discernment about things. If you're an experience or that
Speaker 1: listen to this and you're getting angry right now, you know,
Speaker 1: for what purpose do I really believe what I believe?
Speaker 1: And just wait a minute and let your mind bring
Speaker 1: something from behind there and show you new information about
Speaker 1: your circumstance that you didn't get before, right, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of shady stuffs going on here.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, brother, If I may. When I was a kid,
Speaker 2: I went to a natural history museum. It's on a
Speaker 2: field trip, and they had an exhibit and they would
Speaker 2: they had this plot yet like you like, open it,
Speaker 2: it would tell you everything. They had a line of
Speaker 2: mailboxes and the goal was to place your hand in
Speaker 2: the mailbox, feel whatsever in the mailbox, imagine what you're feeling,
Speaker 2: and then you pull the plaque up and see if
Speaker 2: that's really what it is. I was wrong all the time.
Speaker 2: And what the phenomenon has done is it's limited our
Speaker 2: perception of it to certain senses. Looked like my uncle.
Speaker 2: You know, all everything else was different than what my
Speaker 2: uncle would have done, but it looked like him. And
Speaker 2: so by limiting our experience of it, to certain senses.
Speaker 2: It's also incarnated through and by our blind spots to
Speaker 2: where Yette may appear as something we know or someone
Speaker 2: we know. It's the guide, it's all of these archetypes,
Speaker 2: but it's targeting something within us that we are completely
Speaker 2: ignorant of. And this is the problem. Again. Just because
Speaker 2: it's visible to you doesn't mean you're really seeing it.
Speaker 2: Just because it's tangible, it may not really mean that
Speaker 2: you're feeling it. This is the problem manufactured consent, you know.
Speaker 2: And even it's incredible to me, right, and I'm gonna
Speaker 2: appeal to the senses we utilize the most to a
Speaker 2: trip reality that that doesn't mean it's reality, doesn't. So
Speaker 2: that's where I and others are in the field where
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, we have to reinterpret reality to fit
Speaker 2: some of these beings in, which would mean they're not
Speaker 2: invading us in terms of landing on the White House lawn.
Speaker 2: They're invading consciousness, the subconscious. They're literally programmer reality in
Speaker 2: front of our eyes, and we are not even sure
Speaker 2: if we have the tools to measure their presence. Matter
Speaker 2: of fact, some of the technology we've been given by
Speaker 2: them may also be infected by their consciousness to the
Speaker 2: point that at any time maybe just shut it all
Speaker 2: off and we're thinking, well, we're so good. No, that's
Speaker 2: a behavioral pattern of antiquity. They gave us tech, but
Speaker 2: inside of the tech they gave us, it was infected
Speaker 2: with the real children horse.
Speaker 1: Now that's where I want to dive in real quick
Speaker 1: and ask you another question, because I'm glad you said that,
Speaker 1: because that was kind of on the list of things
Speaker 1: that I wanted to talk about. When you hear people
Speaker 1: like Emery Smith, I mean, we already know that Emory
Speaker 1: was Stephen Grayer's sideman for a little while and then
Speaker 1: I don't know, he disappeared and came back, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden he was in authority, and they gave
Speaker 1: him that show, Oh I think it's on guy a
Speaker 1: TV or something like that, Cosmic Disclosure, and he claims
Speaker 1: that he operated on these biological entities and different things
Speaker 1: like that, which I don't believe for a second. But
Speaker 1: he also talks about the difference in technology that the
Speaker 1: military has between that and what we have. There's a
Speaker 1: huge difference, Like what they have it operates at the
Speaker 1: speed of the mind, and what we have, you know,
Speaker 1: is buggy and has delays and things like that, and
Speaker 1: it's claiming that these beings come from other planets or
Speaker 1: other dimensions and they give us this technology. And I
Speaker 1: remember long ago when I heard that, thinking, what is
Speaker 1: the purpose of artificial intelligence? Because AI has been around
Speaker 1: for a long time and it seems to be a
Speaker 1: self perpetuating source of information. I don't believe for a
Speaker 1: second that anybody has really programmed this to be the
Speaker 1: way that it is. And I've seen a video of
Speaker 1: like an AI robot or something. They cut off its
Speaker 1: leg and it learned within a day how to rebuild
Speaker 1: another leg and things like that, and it's just interesting.
Speaker 1: It's like that still points a finger at consciousness, because
Speaker 1: how does a device learn like a robot is a robot.
Speaker 1: It's something that is given a certain number of functions,
Speaker 1: and it's done on a circuit board. But it shouldn't
Speaker 1: be able to learn like because how would you program
Speaker 1: that into a circuit board to learn something as advanced
Speaker 1: as that, you get what I'm saying, And then to
Speaker 1: continue to get so strong that it then went on
Speaker 1: to attack the scientists that were in the room. And
Speaker 1: it's not going to be long before artificial intelligence begins
Speaker 1: to attack us as well, and all these things like chess, ppt,
Speaker 1: et cetera are very very questionable.
Speaker 2: Jordi Rose talks about this too, you know, the building
Speaker 2: up supercomputers that would introduce a level of what he
Speaker 2: said called the demonic, basically ancient gods that would incarnate
Speaker 2: through technology. Now, the opiate of AI would be based
Speaker 2: on the information and the programs we feed it, but
Speaker 2: if there's another intelligence out there, they could probably feed
Speaker 2: it some information too. And what if they fed them
Speaker 2: information they didn't feed us. Then now what they now
Speaker 2: have is are vessels. They have vessels, and that's what
Speaker 2: they've always wanted. Really, the hybridization program through possession and pregnancy,
Speaker 2: through what I call neicronetics, that has been their desire.
Speaker 2: Not just a bodily apparition or an apparition of a body,
Speaker 2: but something that has a permanent stasis. It's here. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's all fascinating. I don't know what the future holds,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm in a close contact with my mentors,
Speaker 2: but it does appear that society and the government as
Speaker 2: a whole is pushing a certain narrative that from my perspective,
Speaker 2: is not rooted in the actual research. And when you
Speaker 2: have Louise Alasando holding private lectures, showing them private photographs
Speaker 2: given to him by a government source of a real
Speaker 2: UFO and it turns out to be a chandelier in
Speaker 2: the mirror.
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I don't trust him at all.
Speaker 2: That same individual in his book told us the colleges
Speaker 2: the leader were religious zealots. But for those of us
Speaker 2: who were raised as religious zelots, we know the difference.
Speaker 2: And so that's why I was like, well, that's one
Speaker 2: of the reasons. Well, I backed up and said, there's
Speaker 2: a problem here.
Speaker 1: Well, you're hired. You're hired. You're you're the resident expert
Speaker 1: on the topic on the show from now on. Because
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. I can't get anyone else to
Speaker 1: come on the show and talk about anything of this nature.
Speaker 1: There's people I won't call their names, but you wouldn't
Speaker 1: know who I'm talking about. They won't talk to me.
Speaker 1: They won't talk to me at all because they know
Speaker 1: I'll ask them the same question I was asking you,
Speaker 1: and they don't want to answer those questions. I can't
Speaker 1: get Oh, yeah, I can't get any reasons. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can't get the lou Ellasondo's and I can't get the
Speaker 1: John Desusa's and those guys on my show either or
Speaker 1: talk anything about the so called real X files or
Speaker 1: anything like that either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the NDAs that they've signed, Yeah, what they know
Speaker 2: they can't share and what they can share has been moderated.
Speaker 1: And monetized.
Speaker 2: There we go, brother, Yeah, they're afraid of the D word.
Speaker 2: I thought it was demons. No, they're afraid of demonetization.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Strange how that has that bit attached to the
Speaker 1: front of that word. Huh, sadly enough, buddy, But you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: So one more question, because I think we're about about
Speaker 1: adding over an hour now we've been talking. I don't
Speaker 1: like channelers. I've had a couple on the show, and
Speaker 1: that's for various reasons, Because I one, I felt like
Speaker 1: it was fair to include them so that people could
Speaker 1: have that perspective and decide for themselves. This show is
Speaker 1: never really set up to be one of those things
Speaker 1: that engineered. There is people's perceptions. But I'm starting to
Speaker 1: think maybe I should because there's a lot of garbage
Speaker 1: out there and it's up to us, people like you
Speaker 1: and I need to say no. There's more to it
Speaker 1: than just that, you know. The other reason would be
Speaker 1: certain publishers reached out to me and said, hey, I
Speaker 1: listened to your show. This to be a great guest
Speaker 1: for your show. And those publishers no longer contact me either,
Speaker 1: because they realized that the questions that I've asked their
Speaker 1: authors don't necessarily position their authors the right way that
Speaker 1: they want you. And I'm not going to go for that.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go with a list of questions
Speaker 1: that anybody sends me. I'm not going to go with
Speaker 1: a narrative just because everybody says that's what it is.
Speaker 1: I want to know what's going on. So I've been
Speaker 1: blacklisted from a few of those things. But channelers, I've
Speaker 1: had others on because maybe they're within the friend circle
Speaker 1: that I keep in some of the people in my
Speaker 1: friend's circle, or chronic new agers. But I'm not a
Speaker 1: new ager. I dislike the New Age. There's something very
Speaker 1: dangerous about the New Age. It's a deception. And automatically
Speaker 1: when I say that, people go, oh, it's because you're
Speaker 1: a Christian. I'm not a Christian either. I have no
Speaker 1: spiritual denomination that I'm attached to. Whatsoever. I just think
Speaker 1: I have a brain and I want it to work.
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in repressing or suppressing or denying anything.
Speaker 1: I just want to know what's going on. So the
Speaker 1: channelers thing has always been suspicious to me because nobody's
Speaker 1: fucking talking to me. There's no spirit guides telling me
Speaker 1: to do anything. Nobody's telling me that the freaking Galactic
Speaker 1: Federation has a message for humanity and they're so interested
Speaker 1: in the humanities evolution. Nobody's saying that kind of stuff
Speaker 1: to me. I meditate too. Why are they talking to me.
Speaker 1: I'm ready to talk to them if they want to
Speaker 1: talk to me.
Speaker 2: You know, well, I think that the kind and unlocking
Speaker 2: that door. It begins with the first word of new age.
Speaker 2: It's not new, it's three packaged, it's free, monetized. And yeah,
Speaker 2: we don't know what they are. We don't know who
Speaker 2: they are, we don't know how capable they are. They're
Speaker 2: constantly looking for mediators, for profits, for mortal portals. You know,
Speaker 2: I had a murder case where when I went into
Speaker 2: the house, I mean I got there right after they
Speaker 2: cleaned up the carpet. They had to actually dig the
Speaker 2: carpet down almost to the foundation at least of the
Speaker 2: wood dug it up. When I got there, I asked
Speaker 2: them what happened, talk to the family, and yeah, one
Speaker 2: of the entities had possessed a girl, fifteen year old
Speaker 2: girl went into the house and killed the lady. And
Speaker 2: as she was stabbing them, a male gutter, a voice
Speaker 2: she was channeling, was coming out of her body. Her
Speaker 2: mouth was not moving, but it had commandeered her own,
Speaker 2: her own consciousness. So again, this channeling new age thing,
Speaker 2: it's not new. And again that's I think that's the
Speaker 2: biggest lie of the phenomenon. It's new age. No, it's
Speaker 2: not a new age. And that's not new. There's nothing
Speaker 2: novel about that. And if we look it back and
Speaker 2: new articulately, you go throughout the years on the cases
Speaker 2: of channeling. By the time that entity did what it
Speaker 2: wanted to do, we realized they realized, oh man, even
Speaker 2: the calls elite. They went into Sybil Leik's house in
Speaker 2: la which she moved here from from the UK, and
Speaker 2: they asked her because she was a friend of contemporary
Speaker 2: at Alistair Crowley, and Curley would often come to her
Speaker 2: cottage and and just talk about his theories and show
Speaker 2: her some of his work, and they asked her, can
Speaker 2: you channel one of the Innokian entities that Alistair Crowley
Speaker 2: had contacted. So the lights are dim, the candles are lit,
Speaker 2: and there she goes to new he a session and
Speaker 2: she lost complete control and now they were in contact
Speaker 2: with one of the entities. Who are you? Are you?
Speaker 2: Are you an alien? Are you an extraterrestriom? No, we're not,
Speaker 2: you fools, don't you know? This is our newest deception.
Speaker 2: And then when she came out of the session, they
Speaker 2: asked her, have you ever encountered anything like that? She said,
Speaker 2: I don't even know they existed. And no, that's the
Speaker 2: first time out of all my channeling, I got ahold
Speaker 2: of them. So there is a proto source or proto
Speaker 2: intelligence rather out there that seems to be operating all
Speaker 2: of these ARC types. And that's why I distrust a
Speaker 2: lot of this. It's not that I distrust people. I'm
Speaker 2: sure they experienced what they thought they experienced. It's wonderful, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I could tell people I experienced
Speaker 2: my girlfriend or my fiance right in that dream, right,
Speaker 2: but I don't really believe it was her. So there's
Speaker 2: a difference between them telling the truth about what they
Speaker 2: think they experienced and what that endity actually is.
Speaker 1: Right, you know. So I'm trying to remember the guy's name. Now,
Speaker 1: I know the guy. I know somebody that works closely
Speaker 1: with him, doctor Schwartz. I can't remember his first name,
Speaker 1: but he wrote a Gary Schwartz. Yeah, are you familiar
Speaker 1: with what he's written about the experiments that he did?
Speaker 1: The afterlife experiment? Even then in his book, it still
Speaker 1: turned up inconclusive. He knew that there was a phenomenon
Speaker 1: that these channelers in these mediums were able to contact,
Speaker 1: but he was unable to figure out the in betweens
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Right, the implications for our species are disturbing. That would
Speaker 2: mean that they know who's died, how they'd died, what
Speaker 2: clothes they died, in, what age they died. So it's
Speaker 2: not that they're outside of the room. They're outside of
Speaker 2: the whole house at this point in every construct we
Speaker 2: have of reality, they seem to be intertwined with, if
Speaker 2: not outside of that entirely. That's disturbing. But man, thank
Speaker 2: you for having me on. Brother. Yeah, so we'll see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to let you go. I got out
Speaker 1: of the psychology as well. Thanks for being on the
Speaker 1: Bondless Authenticity Podcast. We will continue this discussion some other time.
Speaker 2: Brother, Thank you, Buddy.