Speaker 1: Can God rescue people from same sex attraction?
Speaker 2: He can?
Speaker 3: Does he always know?
Speaker 1: There is a group called Changed Movement that Change Movement
dot Com and the executive pastor there, Leon yonk joins
us to talk just about this and thank you, of
course to God Almighty.
Speaker 4: The Todd Herman Show is one disapproved but big pharma
technocrats and Tyrone safran ware from the high mountains of
Free America. Here's the Emerald City exile.
Speaker 3: Todd Herman.
Speaker 1: Today is the day the Lord has made and these
are the times to which God is the Saturday shall live.
And Pastor Leon Yank joins me Change Movement dot Com.
Good to have you here, Leon, thanks for coming on.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: I thought good to be with you.
Speaker 1: So I know you have a personal testimony related this,
and let's start there because I found that personal testimonies
and what God can do in people's lives is very
compelling for others and inspiring.
Speaker 3: So just set forth talk to us.
Speaker 2: Cool. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah. So I grew
up in the eighties. I grew up in South Africa
on my dad was a farmer. My parents, you know,
pretty happy childhood. You know, loved being out on the
farm and you know, doing life without a lot of technology,
and at the you know, went to church from a
young age, which you know, going to church was kind
of part of the culture I lived in. You know,
it was a place for connection with people on a Sunday.
You know, you're pretty rural, and you know, at the
age of eighty years old, I got involved in sex
play with other boys the same age as me. It
created a lot of confusion in me, a lot of shame.
It also felt good, but I also knew it was wrong.
From what I've picked up from going to church. I
started living with the I kind of had this fear,
like you know, from my understanding at a young age
from going to church, like this is like the ultimately
you know this and there's like no, it's defiling. It's
worse than anything else, you know, and just like in
this constant battle and shame. And then you know, at
the age of thirteen, I went to boarding school, which
is quite common because of this stance. You know, you
can't drive every day. And that's when I the first
time I started feeling suicidal. And the priest, you know,
I was like thirteen years old. I was sitting on
my bed with the spills and got in the wind
in my life. Without even knowing it at the time.
There was a boy that was two years older than
me in school. I woke, you know, I wrote a
little note and gave it to him and gave the
pills to him. And he didn't make a big scene.
Now I know he was Christian, but he didn't make
a big scene at the time. But it just started
looking out for me. And God is so good. I
just had coffee with this guy this January, like twenty
five years later, and we got to talk and I
got to tell the story. Well it was just like
this beautiful moment, you know, and his son is now
in the same school, and it was just this beautiful moment.
But you know, unfortunately, during my five years in boarding school,
you know, during school, I got I was involved in
sexual encounters with one other boy. You know, each time
it feels nice, but then you know, it's just this
tremendous shame and guilt. I'm just wrestling and inside all
the time, you know, and I kind of you know,
the environment I grew up one, you know, I was
good in I wouldn't say I excelled this, but you know,
I liked sports. I played cricket, tennis, I played a
bit of rugby, and you know, I just, you know,
I was just like one of the boys. Really I
didn't you know, I felt like I feed it in
with that. But you know, there was this thing in
the inside of me, you know, all of a sudden,
my friends are like, ah, they're starting a bit to
date girls and talking about the girls, and I'm like, wow,
I'm not like feeling I feel an attraction to boys,
you know, And I'm like, oh no, this is like terrible,
And I'm like crying out to God, and I'm like, God,
if you are real, if you can change everything, you know,
take this away. And nothing happened. And you know, then
that's when I was eighteen, I moved to the UK,
you know, which was common in those days. You know
a lot of people took like I was originally just
going to take a gap year. And you know that's
when I really, you know, I stopped going to church
because you know, growing up with my parents, I kind
of had to go. And then in school it was
like a Christian based school, so everything I kind of
did because I had to. And then you know, living
I must say during this time. So now the world
out there like, well you can lift this way. You know,
it doesn't like a big thing. But you know, you
I start to see in the news like same sex
relationships and you yet about the clubs and things. But
somehow in my inside, you know, even though I wasn't
walking with God, I need you know, something was just
I'm like, I don't want that God, you know, and
I would still cry add to God.
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Speaker 2: You know. Then I just, you know, I got stuck
in heavy drinking, pornography, masturbation. You know, I just went
down the cycle of trying to self self number feeling
I was feeling. And you know, on the outside you
would have said, oh, it's the life of the party,
but on the inside, I was slowly dying. It really
felt like I was living a double life in some ways.
So I'm working for this company and one of my colleagues,
bless Hers, she went through this a really difficult time.
She started going to churchs and then she invited me
to Jerts. I think this is eight and nine, you know,
and that was my reintroduction to church. And I walked
in the church the first time, I thought these people
are crazy. They clapping and they're waiting flats, but yet
they felt so free, and you know, that was like
my introduction back into church. So then she moved away
and then about two years later, so this was like
medle of students and the twelve I'm again at my
lowers low. I'm like, I just want to end my life.
I'm crying out to God. The feelings is not going away.
I feel hopeless and what's the point of living? And
I'm like, you know, somehow the only spirit whispered to me.
You know, I didn't know it was early spread at
that time, but go to churchs So went to chairs
to Sunday and God has just had all the pieces
lined up. I turned up at jets and they talked
about Alpha course that was starting the following week. And
you know Alpha course is it's quite big in the UK.
It's about exploring Christianity and you can ask any question.
And you know, I had like in my first group
where I had like a Muslim, I had kept you know,
there was all different background people and it's really about
having a discussion and asking questions. And the very first night,
the lady next to me asked the past a question
that is really the question I wanted to ask, but
I wasn't going to ask. And she asked how they
would treat somebody. I can't remember exactly how she phrased it,
but it was along the line she had a friend
or family member that was in homosexual relationship struggling and
how they would treat this person if he comes to church,
And the way the pastor answered that question was with
such love and compassion. It just I mean, I was like, well,
I can't trust these people beautiful, so I did. Course,
God just connect me with people. You know, every Sunday
I thought I would sit in the background of the
church and I'm trying. I like, I just want to
run out after the service, and every time somebody would
come and speak to me, and I'm like, what is
the wrong with these people? Why are they so friendly?
But every week, you know, people would just connect with me,
and I started, you know, finding a place and then
the friends who did Actually the one Sunday I'm sitting
in church, I'm again thinking I'm not going to come
back next week. You know, for me, it was scary
to go to church on my own and you walk
in and you know, you kind of alone. Where do
you fit in? And I'm just I just had a sport.
I'm not going to come back Sunday and somebody come
up to me and say, hey, come and say to
a vice. I mean, and God is like every time
I'm trying to you know, God, just send somebody. And
you know, so I joined the small group. You know,
I had to take a risk. You know, this was
a risky for me to go to somebody's house. It
was like all new, you know, and they would worship together,
they read the Bible and then have small group discussions.
And you know, I'm just at this point, I'm like,
this is weird, but somehow I feel some kind of
peace when I go. Yeah, you know, and there's two guys.
One guy in my small group. He took my phone
number and he said, hey, we really want to connect
with you and read the Bible with you, and I'm
going to send you message. And I in my head,
I'm thinking, you are crazy. Why do you want to
read the Bible on a Wednesday? But I'm going to
go with it.
Speaker 3: Wednesday.
Speaker 2: You know, isn't it like a Sunday thing?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And you know I knew from grawing. You know, my
mom would always encourage you to read your Bible. But
I just you know, I wasn't in that rhythm. I
wasn't you know, you know, I'm it's like being saved together,
saved all over and you know there's two guys. They
we would get together and have a meal together, and
you know, it was just this amazing time you know,
of connection. And then we read this book like Finding
Your Identity in Christ. We were reading this book together
and we would pray for each other. And I had
two months in, but it's like Mark Rascal book who
do You Think You Are? And it was it just
folk like you know what I needed to hear in
that moment. God used that book so powerfully because we
would really you know, each week we do a better
homework and then we come together and discuss it. I've
got two months in. I'm like, I need to tell
this guys this struggle that I've been having. But you know,
it's it's really really scary. Once I've said it, I'm
not getting be able to take it back right, And
you know, you're really giving somebody your most deeper secret
and what are they going to do with it? So
we're at the house and I already decided in my
mind they probably going to reject me, like I'm going
to walk out of you in shame, and this is
going to be really painful, and I say to them,
bear with me. I'm like sweating. I'm sitting on the
couch for ten minutes and finally I'm getting the words
out here. At this point, I'm thirty thirty one years old,
and this is a fair time. I'm evastating this with anybody,
my goodness, and I cannot tell. It was like as
soon as I've said it, it was like there's weight
that what was on my shoulders, it was just somebody
just lifted it off. It was like this wow feeling,
and you know what, they just looked at me the same.
Speaker 3: Like, you know, wow, you have some problems.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you have problems too, and yeah, and they
just you know, they just loved me. They prayed with me.
They like, you know, we don't really know what to do,
but you know, we're going to walk with you. And
you know, that was like so so ealing, you know,
finding people, you know, I was I thought I was
going to be rejected, and you know, and just seeing
God's love and his grace through those other people. So
then fast forward, you know, the next January, January twenty thirteenth.
So at this point, you know, I may eavy smoke
and I'm smoking between twenty and forty cigarettes a day,
and I've tried to stop smoking four or five times.
It's really difficult, right, And January twenty thirteen, these guys
pray for me and like that. You know, I've an
add a criving sentence, and I think that's the first
time I saw the power of God in my own life.
I'm like, I know how difficult that was. I couldn't
do that. And the fact that that just went like that,
I'm like, Wow, this God, I'm learning getting to know you. Yes,
he's a good God.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you know, then the journey just continue.
You know, I got just blacked into jets. I served
a bunch of places. You know, I would always encourage
people I don't know. I started on the welcome team,
in the coffee team, and you know wherever I could save,
you know, eventually did some ketch work because it was
fun for me to let get to learn the Bible
English is my second language, you know, so to get
to learn the Bible with the kids in kids work
was just a lot of fun. And you know then God,
you know, I was like, you know, I had a
lot of friends, but I didn't have a lot of
friends that really know me, you know, my deepest and
this was like a whole new level for me. You know, God,
you know, brought these brothers alongside me. You know, I
had four or five other men. You know, I had
like all kinds, you know, I had like brothers, and
then I had like mums and dads. You know, it
was at families and these you know, my friendships through
these men. You know, they didn't have the same struggle
I did. They had other struggles. But that was so
so ealling for me. You know, those guys came alongside
me and said to me, we love you. You know
the first few times I couldn't even say that back.
You know, I just didn't grow up like that, you know.
Or they would give me a uk and I would
be like so tense. Yes, I was so used to
unhelphy touch like this, you know, but God used that,
you know, uses people to love me and yes, to
bring you know, to bring eating in my life. And
then I got baptized, and I mean, I forgot, now
how many people wrote me the verse two Currenthians five seventeen. Therefore,
if anyone is in Christ, then you know your new
creation is that all this gone, the newest come. And
I was like wow, you know, just you know, I
couldn't grasp the verse in that moment. But you know,
later on I realized, like, wow, I'm really a new creation.
You know, my identity is in Christ. I was my
greative identity. Wasn't this for a long time. Now it's
like a whole new person. And you know, then it came.
I went through a journey, you know, four or five years,
still struggling with pornography and masturbation, and you know, and
then God, you know, God was so gracious. He didn't say, oh,
you're going to be you know, we're going to do
all this now. It was a time, you know, it
was it took time. Okay, now we're going to work
on this. Now we're going to work on this. And
then eventually, you know, I'm like, I open up to
the guys, you know, and at that time, I think
four of my friends, guy friends came alongside me and
we created like this WhatsApp group and you know that
was my breaking out of pornography and masturbation. You know, like,
now I'm going to be accountable. You know, I'm going
to tell this guys when I'm struggling. And you know,
that was like another you know, I just wasn't used
to that type of especially with other guys, you know,
sharing these things. And then now fast forward from the then,
I kind of was in this place where I'm like, well,
I'll just be a Christian that struggle with same sex attraction.
This will be my thing, your cross. Yeah. I never thought,
but you know, in the back of my I'm kind
of still thinking, well, God, you know, reading God's work
and all the medicals is doing God can actually do this,
but maybe it's just not for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And hes An, I think I went to this conference
in Northern California just this It was like a worship
conference and one of my buddies is with me, and
the first night during worship, I felt early Spirited talking
speaking to me.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like that feeling that I know inside that God
is starting to work on me on the way I
see myself and my sexuality. And the second day it continued,
and I'm telling my buddy, like, I think God's doing something.
God's speaking to me about this, and he knew me
pretty well at the time, you know, and it's like, okay, yeah,
just lean in and see what God does. So this
up is going on for three days, and then the
Tuesday morning, I'm staying at a friend's house in town
in the Bay Area. I'm sleeping out in the living
room and I wake up and as soon as I
woke up, it was like I heard the voice I've
got in my aid, you are free. I've never had
it like that before. I've never did it like that since.
But you know, it's like I know in my knowing
that God speaking to me. And I knew what he
was speaking about, because the last three days he started
speaking to me about my sexuality, goodness, everything that feel
different but also the same. It's like the weird, weird dynamic,
but I knew, you know, I got so much hope
in that moment from God, and you know, then the
journey started. You know. Actually, during the same time that conference,
I got four prophetic words that were so similar and.
Speaker 1: These are words from other people.
Speaker 2: Words from other people. Yeah. So you know, I'm standing
in line and this pastor from Canada gives me this
way and I'm like, well, yeah, whatever, I'm thinking. My
it's it's it's just random. But then a second time,
a third time, and it's from a random people that
I don't know, and they spoke things into my life.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: One of it was about where God's going to take
me and then I'm going to move. You know, I
just two years before started what I thought was my
job where I'm going to retire. Yeah, so you know
that instead, you know, and when that happened four times,
I'm like, this is really God speaking to me. And
you know, I went and said and prayed and I
felt God said I need to lean into that. And
one of it was applying to go to ministry school,
you know, and then I you know, I'm like, okay,
I'm going to do that. So I went back applied
for ministry school. I'm like, God, if this is you,
You're good with opening doors and closing doors that's not
supposed to be open, but all the doors just open up.
I went back. I'm sitting with my boss, you know,
that December, and we're doing an appraisal for the following year.
Bear in mind, my boss is not a believer, you know,
at that time, and she's starting to talk about the
next year, and I told her, hang on, I need
to tell you this. God's been speaking to me about,
you know, going to America and doing this. And you know,
even after I told her that, she was so kind.
You know, she didn't tell aid office, which was in
a different country at that moment. You know, I got
a piaterise that'd be same, but I got a Christmas
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could see God's blazing on my life in that moment.
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twenty five. That'sh two five to two.
Speaker 2: And then you know, came to America, did ministry school
and then I'm sitting in ministry school in my first
year and I am Ken Williams and Elizabeth Warning, who's
the co founders of Jamee's movement, And these guys come
out and they speak and I'm like, oh my word,
there's more people that's got this testimony and that's walked
through with us. And that's where I got connected with Ken,
and you know, then I went on this. You know,
I think that first two years when I was America,
probably three years, was all about God rewiring my mind.
You know. I keep you know Romans twelve, you know,
being transformed on and newing of your mind and just
reading up about the brain. And there's a doc, doctor
Caroline Leave. That's there's amazing. I can't forgot the book's name,
but there's a forty day brain detox in it. Yes, yes,
I mean it was just like transforming my life, you know.
And then I'm like I was looking at myself a
certain way for thirty years and believing the lies, and
God was just starting to work with me, you know,
and it was it did. It was a lot of
art work to shift my thinking the way I see
myself loving myself and yeah, and there is this history
and yeah I am to that, you know, you know
I would still my journey was Okay, now now I'm changed,
but now I need to walk that out and you know,
our temptations that might come, but okay, that's not who
I am, you know, got and I just started this
continuous dialogue with God, like, God, what do you say
about this? Is that true? No? And distinguishing the voice,
you know, it's just my voice, it's just the enemy.
Is that God speaking to me? And just learning to
youar God's voice? And yeah, and that's I mean, I'm
just you know, that's where my heart really started aking.
For Oh well, I hate to see you know, the
situation I was on in feeling suicidal and hopeless and
God's stand this for me and like, oh wow, like
how can I how can I be involved in help
other people? And yeah, that's where So I was meeting
with Ken and deciding where to do my internship in school,
and you know, we're trying to figure out whether you
should be with a dad or you should be with
this person. And I'm looking one day and I'm like,
I should be with you. You know, did my internship
with them, and you know, and just you know, being
under their leadership and you know, coming in and just
diving into you know, Leizbeth, that's incredible teaching on biblical
sexual sexuality, sexual ethics, and yeah, and it's just such
a joy to be here and now to be able
to disciple other men that's on this journey and to
give like like really these hope for this and for most,
for most of it, it's a journey. You know, God
can God can do something in an instant instant, but
you know, for most of it's it's a journey.
Speaker 1: Le Just praise God and so inspiring what you've heard,
what I've heard from you, And I think the Church
has made this tremendous mistake of and you talked about
this making same sex activity or attraction the special sin,
this abomination among all abominations, and yeah, the Old Testament
says that, and guess what it says A lot of
things are abominations, a whole number of things. This encourage
me and says listening to you, though. I interviewed a
woman who for about four years had lost her kids
because she became dreadfully addicted to heroin. And she went
through treatment programs in Seattle, and true story, she'd walk
out of a month long treatment program, they would open
the doors, you know, give her a stuff back, open
the doors, goodbye, good luck, and within five feet someone
would offer her free heroin.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And they just prayed on people coming out of those places.
And everybody knew this. So when she eventually realized that
she can't get well in Seattle, that she needs to
go to a different place, and she had a court
ordered thing, as she begged the judge, please not Seattle,
Please let me go to someplace where this doesn't happen.
And the judge didn't know what happened, he said, everybody
else knew. So she went to a rural area, she
got treatment, and she stayed there leon there was no
one out there offering her heroine. She got a job.
Praise God, she went back to church, got intervened in
her life, she got her kids back, but she swears
had she not gotten to that real place, she never
would have gotten off. My question for you is you
confessed to godly men. Yeah, you confess to your same
sex attraction, your struggles with that. I assume the activity
undertaken and they accepted you, and they had that response
a lot of us. I was like, wow, you sinned too,
look at that. Yeah. Have you ever thought about what
would have happened if the enemy or you'd allowed yourself
to have the enemy take you into a different place
where you confessed and men said, oh, there's nothing wrong
with that, No, we do that too. That Have you
cycled on that mentally?
Speaker 2: But yeah, I've thought about that. You know, you get
the gay filming church now, you know. And I'm like,
if I look back when I was very you know,
it will be really confusing. Yep, you know, And I
could have gone a different way. But you know, I
mentioned this, like even before I was walking with God
and the world was screaming out there already you can come.
That's why you can be that way. This is who
you are. Something inside of me internally, whether that was God,
you know, something didn't set right in me or with
me all along. I never I never pursued like the
lifestyle or going into a cup cult or like I'm like,
something just blocked me from that. Yeah, but yeah, I
can see you know that's that can be extremely confusing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it is also very confusing for
people to accept gay as an identity.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Right, And I try to use the phrase same sex
attractor because it conveys a feeling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So.
Speaker 3: Is that do you.
Speaker 1: Find it's more difficult for people who have begun to
pronounce themselves as gay versus people who feel same sex
attracted to pronounce that? Is it harder for people who've
arrived at calling themselves gay?
Speaker 2: I'm in it, I am, yes and no. For some
it might be it because people are so making the
identity in something. You know, for me, my identity is
in Christ. You know. One of the guys that came
alongside me was like, well, I really struggle. I get
angry really quickly, But my identity is not anger. You know,
my identity is star in Christ. But I think once
you put you out that's who I am, you know,
it becomes harder you know, it's like I am this. Well, actually,
I'm just a son of God, you know. And I
might have struggled with this or struggled with this, and
there's still some things I struggle with, but I'm still
a son of God. My identity identity is huge, you know.
It's probably one of the best, Like what you put
your identity in.
Speaker 3: Right, right, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1: If you are a buyer of soap, and who isn't,
because we all wash our bodies, every single one of us,
You're probably putting chemicals in your body. You're probably using
a product that came from perhaps slave labor in China,
and it has been tested on animals. Maybe that doesn't
bother you. Alan Soaps is never tested on animals. It
is one hundred percent natural. There are no chemicals in it.
It is as easy on the skin as can possibly
be because Alan's skin can't stand anything harsh. He is
the chief soap officer there. He is fourteen. He's been
through about eighteen operations and Alan learned something last week.
His dad, John, who runs the company for Alan and Ian,
also impacted by autism. For Amy, who got autism late
in life. John is the guy who runs the company
for them. They do the work. Alan vins the soaps.
John had to tell his two boys and probably Amy
as well, that he's been diagnosed with what amounts to
right now stage four Steve cancer, that he doesn't expect
to live more than a couple of years.
Speaker 3: Now. I want to be very very careful on this.
Speaker 1: I am actually, legitimately, for real, asking you to buy
the soap because John is dying. If you do not
like the soap, I demand please respectfully, that you never
buy it again. Alan's is not a charity, It is
a company. If you love the soap or it's equal
to what you're buying now, know that it is far
superior morally. All lives matter to Alan Alan's. Our job,
our mission is to hire people like Alan and Ian
and Amy. That is the mission. If the soap is
equal to or better than what you buy, now, I
am asking you to subscribe because John may be going
to Jesus and his wife will take over running of
the company. What a blessing it would be for her
to look at a renewable stream of revenue from people
who love the soap. Please promise me you will not
purchase the soap a second time. If you don't love
it or equal to what you have now, go to
aunsaps dot com slash todd. You get ten percent of
all their products there and you will be proving that
all lives matter.
Speaker 3: Do you just try it? Aunsoft dot com slash todd.
Speaker 1: And obviously, this is why I use this phrase same
sex attracted because I want people to not not lock
themselves into a box yep, exactly. And and and you've
seen other men come out of this, and you've been
involved in this. What are some of the common factors
of people who succeed in allowing God to change them
this way?
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of it is hard to work,
you know, I tell you know when I lead my
ments Online Discipling Discapleship group, you know, I encourage the
guys before we do the group. It's like get plugged
into a local church. Get you know, get some people
that can come alongside you. Don't look for a perfect
church because I can tell you're going to keep looking.
You know, it's all humans. But you know, I have
a lot of grace. Get some people to come alongside you.
And you need to put the work in. Pornography is
a huge problem today. And you know, I would tell
the guy. You know, so many people we see struggle
with pornography, and I would like, you need to nip
that in the bat. You know, if it's something you
don't want to do, you need to be radical. That
might mean get rid of your smartphone or you know
what you do with your computer. You know. So I've seen, like, right,
you know, with people that really make radical choices in
their life that I want to lever God, honoring life,
and you know, and having having community alongside them, brothers
and sisters that they can share life with and be
vulnerable with. And you know, when stuff came up or
I'm feeling this way or I'm tempted this way. I
mean that for me, when I started doing that, that
is through it off of the battle.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. And God is an awesome God in that way.
I mean, it always is an awesome guy. Yeah, how
do you how do you advise that the true biblically
strict churches of whatever, you know, evangelic, whatever, how do
you advise them to deal with the existence of what
is called gay Christianity or what I would call the
false churches. I mean, let's just be honest, they're teaching
a false doctrine because it does create confusion. I have
friends who have left the Catholic church and they've left
it behind, and now they're at same sex affirming churches,
and I watched them walk down this path where all
of a sudden, it's not just that Jesus sponsors same
sex attraction, it's that he never spoke about marriage, and
people are born in the wrong body, and it's just
this very predictable path. Now it's you know, I'm onto
this new leftist thing, et cetera, and we must teach
this sex ad and everybody's racist, and it's just this
very predictable walk.
Speaker 3: So what would you advise that.
Speaker 1: The church proper or churches do biblically strict churches about
these these false doctrine churches.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, a big thing of what we do is,
you know, that's really on our leader's heart is equipping
the church, you know now to be a loving place
for people to come in. You know, the church should
be a safe place for people to come. But I
would say something practically, you know, if you are leading
a church, your churchs I think it's important that the
church speak about sex and sexuality and what is your
stance on this, you know, have your whatever your sexuality
statement is, have it on your website, you know, so
there's no confusion. This is what we believe. And then
when when people come, you know, and speak about this,
you know, don't never speak about sexual sexuality or homosexuality
in your churchs. And then you have a couple that
come in and they want to go into a leadership
position and they're like, well, we saw you in a
same sex relationship. You can't do that. And then like, well,
you've never spoken about this. So I think be loving,
be speak love with truth, and be open and speak
you know. You know, I grew up in a church
where I don't think we ever spoke either anything on
sex or sexuality or you know, or something like that.
So I think if you speak the truth, you know,
in a loving way, you know, they it takes out
a lot of confusion. Yeah. And then I have some
postoral people. You know, if you have people that struggle,
it's like I have some people that's ready to come
alongside them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I'm picturing my mind people who are
listening to talk about the church and the church proper.
And then they're saying, what about me? So there are
gonna be people listening to this and they have same
sex attracted kids or grandkids or brothers and sisters, and
they will look you in the eye and say, oh,
I see, So he's the he's the pray the gay
away guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so that's what we just.
Speaker 1: We just pray the gay away. Ay that that uniquely
understates the power of God. But you didn't pray the
so called gay away you you went through this process.
Speaker 3: So what would you say.
Speaker 1: To people who are of that mindset that, hey, I
don't believe can pray the gay way and I've seen
all the movies and that can't change and talk there
these torture and.
Speaker 2: Well ton, I can tell you this, I tried to
pray it away myself and it didn't work like that. Yeah,
you know I've said that, I you know, without anybody
ever praying that for me, I've prayed that for myself.
God was far more interested in me as a person
and being in my heart and in my life. And
you know, the best way. The more I leaned into
God and making you know, that's the number one relationship
in my life, and the more I leaned into that
and into the truth and wrestling with that as a
lot and speaking about it. You know, as that went up,
there's feelings I was feeling. I was like, well, that
doesn't have such a hold on me anymore. And you know,
it used to drive me when I would hear people
say that as well, well you just need to spend
more time with God, and I was like, well, that's
but actually I just needed to spend more time with God.
And you know, and through throughout you know, ratling with
scriptures where you're like, well, you know, the Bible says that,
but I'm not feeling that, or you know, having conversations.
You know, it's so so important having people in your
life that you can trust and be real with and
speak with. But yeah, you know it, God did that
work in me. You know, it was like, it's a
ten year journey that I've been on and it's still continuing.
Speaker 3: Praise God.
Speaker 2: But never ever once, you know, did somebody come up
to me and say, we just we just need to
pray for you that God take it away. And in
my you know, even though I prayed that before I
was saved and in the beginning of my walk with God,
nobody else came up to me and said, we just
need to pray that away or you have a demon.
You know, nobody's ever told me that. And I've heard
of people that that's happened to, which is really sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Changed Movements, so Change Movement dot Com and yeah,
so talk about what the organization does and then how
this podcast and radio show Family Men Worship how they
can help.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we I mean, we have a bunch of people,
you know, Ken Williams and Elizabeth Wanning started it back
in twenty eighteen, I think. And it's just people from
all different backgrounds. You know. We're based in northern California
and we've got a team of maybe sixteen, you know,
including some volunteers up here. But then we've got people
that from all over the world really that's reached out
to us, you know with their testimonies where I've got
a similar testimony and or you know, God's stand this
in my life. We have people that's transitioned and the transitioned. No,
it's like a whole variety of people, you know, and
it's just we just you know, part of it is
sharing the message that I actually God can do this
you know, we serve a powerful God, and not one
of the stories is the same. It's all different, yes, exactly.
So you know, we just basically collected testimonies, you know,
and we've got it our website and we've got a
printed book. And then a big thing what we do
is equipping churches. You know, We've got some people on
our team that would go out to different churches and
we might do like a Saturday workshop, you know, and Jesson,
how you navigate this, how you walk with somebody? You know,
what does the Bible say. We've got an online series
on our website called and Navigating LGBT where there's like
a bunch of teachings and testimonies in So it's how
our art is really is, like how can we equip
the church to respond to this issue in a trueful
loving way and be equipped? You know, we go to
some churches and it's like, oh, we've got somebody that
came to a church. We don't know what to do
with this struggle. But yeah, I mean just just having
churches being equipped like actually, we we can respond to this,
we can love the people, we can walk with them.
That's a big thing of what we do.
Speaker 1: Praise God and how can people help how can they
help you Movement dot Com?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I.
Speaker 5: Mean we we we I'll find you know, we reliant
on donut you know, all out everything we do is
you know, so if people want to help, you know,
they can go on line, they can donate on our
website and we've yeah, we've got a whole bunch of
resources on there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we you know, if people or you know,
if people think they have a need for somebody like
Change Movement to come and whip the church, you know,
they get each out to us on our website and
praise God. Well I'm jumping up.
Speaker 1: I'm asking people to give money. So I think the
average donation these days to nonprofits in America runs around
eighty five or ninety bucks. If you can afford that.
I have no relationship with these guys. We just did
this first interview. Give eighty nine or you know, ninety bucks,
it's average. If you've been uniquely blessed and this resonates
with you, if you've been rescued from same sex X
attraction or activity, you've been rescued from, you know, from pornography,
you've been rescued from any of this. You know people
who have help this organization with whatever you can afford.
And it's Changemovement dot com don't need any code word.
I have no relationship with these guys, no financial relationship whatsoever.
But I'm calling on people to support this ministry and Leanne.
I would love to have you back, I'd love to
talk to other people who.
Speaker 2: Been this way.
Speaker 1: I'd love to have you comment on policy, et cetera.
And I just want to say I am absolutely uniquely
blessed to have heard this from you, and I thank
you very very much, my friend.
Speaker 2: You very welcome.
Speaker 3: All right, God bless you. This is the Todd Hermit Show.
Speaker 1: Please go be well, be strong, be kind, Please make
every effort to walk in the light of Christ and
celebrate for me as I get to go home and
see my beloved wife.