Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Ceko's I am Dan Favali coming
at you with a very special guest. Is that time
of the calendar where you're gonna be getting three four
episodes in a week from mister mort Jensen and myself.
He is of the NBA podcast, Fame, Yahoo Sports Fame,
Forbes Fame. Where else are you famous? From your famous
international fame that all the international listeners for you?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, you even you even forgot about
sports sales creating because I am I am everywhere, I'm omnipresent. No,
look that way too kind. That's always way too kind
of an introduction. Dan, How are you, sir? That's the
most important thing. How are you doing?
Speaker 1: I'm caffeinating, that's soundm doing so. I'm doing spectacular as
I hold up three zero complaints on Maya and you
undersell yourself as always, I can't. I don't know how
people do. But I don't know how people do anything
when they have for like families to be responsible for.
I'm a terrible dog, dad slash husband. When you throw
kids in the equations, I have all the respect in
the world for people who balance work in that And
then when you factor in the fucking time difference for
you specifically, I think I got a bet on the
East Coast. I like to tell Grant that all the time.
So all the respect in the world for you, and
you undersell yourself as always. You are amazing, and I'm
excited to talk to you about Look Eastern Conference friends,
playoff teams that will be who we think are the
most dangerous. Spoiler alert, there'll be a Western Conference version
of this coming out very very soon, but I thought
it was. We talked about contenders Grant and I recently,
and it's funny. One of the contenders is actually on
our East fringe list. But the playoff races are fascinating,
not just because they're you know, we're still dealing with
the play and stuff, but the margins, Like, doesn't it
feel to you when you're looking at the tippy top
of the league there might just be three or four
teams that belong on a Tier one and Tier two,
and then there's just like this massive ass cluster throughout
the rest of the league. Even if you want to
tear it, there might just be like two then separate
tiers from there where so much, so many different things
could happen and look that the West, I think is
normally associated with that discussion, but you're looking at the East,
and as we record this, it's just like, Okay, what
separates the magic who are the four seed from the
sixers who are currently outside the play and it's it's
four losses. That's not a lot at all.
Speaker 2: Now. I feel this week every single year, honestly, And
this is probably where the Plane Tournament has come in
and had an effect, right because now you're looking at
the lower ends of the standings. You're not just looking
one through eight, you're looking one through ten, and so
you're automatically in your head like searing it differently. Like
I was probably a little bit of a skeptic initially,
like I was excited, but I was also like in
the back of my mind, like is this going to work?
Is this going to be a thing? But we've already
seen like it hasn't been going on for that many years,
Like what is this? Is this the fifth year with
the plane somewhere along though Ryeah, right, like fourth or fifth,
and we've already had a plan and seem like make
the finals. We already had like another playing team make
the conference finals in the Lakers I believe so like
we were seeing the unpredictability of it all, and I
think that's awesome. And it also makes it so much
harder for me, honestly to like legitimately tier teams, because
I always have this thing in the back of my
mind going, oh, yeah, I might like this team, but
they might get the their shit kidd kicked out of
them by the Heat who are like tenth, Like I
just I don't know, and I love the fact that
they's so unpredictable. It turns out, Dan that that the
NP is actually good. Did you know that.
Speaker 1: Let's not get into that. They said, by the way,
this is your this will be the playoff number six.
That's wild, right, so already twenty one, twenty four, so yeah,
this will be number six, not wild.
Speaker 2: Time moves so fast, And oh, I will say this
though the COVID years, it did feel like three seasons
four slapped together, right Like, I don't. I don't even
remember like the distinction of it. I don't. I can't
like separate seasons from that time where someone who said,
remember that game, I'm like, ah, that could have happened
in three different seasons. I have no idea I.
Speaker 1: Remember where I was and what I was doing when
the league shut down, and then like the next thing,
I actually remember that, Oh it was four years later
and things, I'm good.
Speaker 2: No, it's totally true. Like I remember Mark Cuban's reaction
looking into his phone and then blank and suddenly like
I wake up four years later.
Speaker 1: Mort we begin alphabetically with your Atlanta Hawks. I'm just
gonna sign them. I'm gonna sign every single team here
for you. How are you feeling about these these Hawkys?
Speaker 2: They're feisty. I've always loved that word, and sometimes I
don't think it's being used the right way. But for
this team, I think it's just perfect, like chef's kiss.
This is a team where I was like, coming into
the season, you know they the Spurs have their draft
pick unprotected. I was like, oh, what what kind of
direction are they going in? Are they going to lean
vets instead of like youth movement? What are they gonna do?
Turns out they decided, for the better or worse, that
they're gonna have one foot in the each camp of
those like they're they're developing Zachary Ruschet, They're still leaning
in Andre Young, Jalen Johnson is probably, in my opinion,
the best Hawk like right now. I think the way
that he's playing is phenomenal, and I think there's room
for growth there. Dyson Daniels coming out of nowhere. I
don't want to say save their ass because I think
that's a little too aggressive, but he just he gave
them such a lift. The story to me, though, is
DeAndre Hunter. Remember how everyone's like, oh, he's unverpaid. He's
just like he's just a wing, and then this year
he just taught It's.
Speaker 1: Still out there. I hear him just banding about in
trade rumors, just like, oh, if the Hawks want to
get out of that contract, I'm like maybe a year ago, right,
I'm like.
Speaker 2: Uh right, no, no way, no way. Like look here,
I don't remember if do you have to like reach
a certain criteria with games played to win six man?
It's it's so weird, like some awards or like the
fifty sixty five games threshold and some are not. Is
the sixth man included in that one of them? Is it?
Speaker 1: I think it's the sixth man that might not included
because m IP has definitely included. Otherwise, Jalen Johnson may
have won it last year if the game's minimum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, I want that. I want
my roasters for that one because I call that before
the preseason last year and Brian was like and then
he was so close.
Speaker 1: His two year old. Remember it is Brian being right though,
because he didn't win, So suck for.
Speaker 2: You that that that actually hurts, that literally and physically hurts.
Uh No. So so even if DeAndrea Hunter like misses
time later in the season knock on wood that he
doesn't and it like falls below the sixty five game threshold,
I would probably have him as as my as my
six man this year. I mean, he's just been so phenomenal.
Speaker 1: I think he fits that criteria too, like almost to
a tee. Actually, I think a lot of people and
sometimes I gravitate this is you want someone who comes
off the bench but also may or definitely closes for
their team. And so when you get to a Peyton Pritchard,
who I think is there's a ton of candidate's deserving
candidate DeAndre Hunter is going to check that box over
a Peyton Pritchard or even a Nikail Alexander Walker in Minnesota.
Speaker 2: YEP, totally agree, And so I think these Hawks have
found something and look, this isn't important by any means,
but I love the fact that they're entertaining to watch,
like this could have been a season where you know,
they were trying to figure themselves out and things just
got like bocked down in details. They are out running,
they're gunning, they're playing a fun brand of basketball. Like
I've made them appointment viewing. I think they've really approached
this the right way. The fact that they're basically saying, look,
that's the lost cost of this. You know, the pick
that's going to San Antonio. We're not just not going
to focus on that. We're going to try to play
our best ball and we're going to try to develop guys.
I love it. Like where to put them in a
playoff bracket though, that's that's probably why we're having this discussion,
And I'm coming in here with virtually nothing's offer because
I don't know the answer to that. I have no
idea where to put them. There are five hundred teams
as of recording, and that feels pretty like on brand
when you watch the play but a five hundred team
in the East can make a lot of noise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with you and I've been a
pretty i wouldn't say big, but strong advocate of they
should see what they can add to this team as
we look ahead to the deadline. Part because of those
picks the buyers, well, I mean look at because as
of right now they're the defense is I think it
can be better for stretches than you would expect, but
it's slipped again and they're dead last and opponent in
three point of ten to eight percentage since December first.
They are much better when their defense is set, but
part of that is their offense has not really been
good enough, Like there are lineups where it works, and
a big part of that is I still think Trey
Young is one of the best passers alive. I still
think he's by far the best player on this team,
but when he's not shooting at his usual clip from
a bunch of different spots, and then you compound that
with Bogdanovic's injuries and lack of availability, and then by
extension that dearth of creation outside of Trey and Jalen Johnson.
Right now, their dynamic is great together, and I think
that Jalen Johnson is much better in a vacuum. He
continues to just create for others a lot better. I
think two years ago, eighteen months ago, I probably would
have been this is someone who can only do that
in the open floor, and it's no. He's continuing to
do it more from dead stops. He's drawing two to
the ball. It feels like more. He's even just you know,
I think these past two years it proved that he's
like one of the better lob passers.
Speaker 2: In the League two.
Speaker 1: But your offense is in the fifteenth percentile when Trey
Young is off the floor, and when you look at
just the teammates, there's not a lot of off or
on ball gravity like relative to Trey Young. And then
even just off ball, there's not a ton of gravity
any like from Jalen Johnson, sure Bogdanovich, even though he
hasn't been shooting as well this year. And so I
look at them and they still feel like they epitomize mediocrity.
But I feel like they're close to being something more
that I'm not saying, hey, go throw all those picks
and get Jimmy Butler, although I have been an advocate
for them trying something like that. If they get to
keep Dyson, Daniel Zachary resa Che. I also have to
acknowledge though, what they're trying to do is plumb the
depths of Dyson Daniels and Zachary resa Chet. But if
you can go out and get maybe something that you
think is going to upgrade your backup point guard rotation
or just deliver more offensive gravity in the half court,
that's probably the way to go. I think some people
might point towards the front court as well, but at
this point, I'm kind of like, just like the Capella
come off the books and you have on Yaka, conglu
and if you need Larry Nance Junior's matching salary or
if you need Capella as matching salary, sure, but I
think I kind of identify them as they could be
a backup point guard or just a better tertiary offensive
option away from just being in the top six mix
more more firmly.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up on Yaka because I'm a
big proponent of his I love him, and for a
long while I was like, look, just turn him into
the starting center. It's fine, Like give unleash him, give him,
give him that nod. And John Hollander and I we
we you know, we kid each other once in a
while and we DM and he was like hmm hmmm.
He was skeptical, and I was like every time when
I had a good game, I would poke him and
he would just tell me in a nice way. Mort
have you even noticed the size has returned to the NBA?
And it's like, that's a fair point. Like on Yek
six' eight, Like he plays taller than he is. I'll
give him that. He's super active, great rebounder, utterly elite
at finishing around the basket too, But six ' eight.
If these Hawks are gonna be a legitimate playoff team
and try to go for something, maybe not this year,
but next year, they're gonna need that size. Like I
know you can offset some of the size with Risha
Cha and Johnson at playing the forwards, but I do
think you're gonna need a bigger center like in the middle.
I do think you're gonna need someone. And he's like
the perfect you know, third big two, like someone who
comes in and play like twenty five to twenty eight
minutes per game. It's an interesting it's an interesting dynamic.
I want to say, I'm not sure I'm there with
the Jimmy Butler at you though, like, if that feels
a little too aggressive, Well.
Speaker 1: If it's not going to cost like a ton of
first round equity and it's let's get if it costs
you one pick and they have the Lakers pick this year,
they have the Kings pick that's protected through I think
twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2: Protected pick, I'm all in. That's fine.
Speaker 1: I'll I mean even I it's the Lakers pick that's unprotected.
But I guess the Lakers could be like, you wouldn't
give up salaries plus that pick to get to Jimmy
Butler while you're keeping you know, Diyson DWN.
Speaker 2: You're you're asking the wrong guy. I just wrote an
article over a Yahoo where I did have a Jimmy
Butler trade and like I more or less wrapped up
that segment where I was like, look, if this team,
I'm not going to say which team you can go
in and click and find out wants to add you know,
a second or two. That's fine, Just don't get into
the first round equity stuff on this one.
Speaker 1: But so I would ask you one, right, given let's
say Bogdanovic is more available better for the rest of
the year, do you think that what would you view
as the bigger need. Then if you're thinking that they
might need because the way you're describing the Kungaru dynamic
would be well, they could use someone who's an upgrade
from Capella. Then on the rotation, what do you view
is more pressing if we assume better health availability and
shop making from Bogdanovich?
Speaker 2: No, I agree with you. Then if we're prioritizing needs,
I think you nailed it. I do think they need
more creation. I love Trey as a creator Lord Jalen
Johnson as a creator. Don't love Dyson Aniels as the creator,
at least not yet. It's still very very young. Same
ghost for Risha che. If those two take leaps in
coming years, oh my god, this team is going to
be very very exciting for a long time. But you're right,
as of right now, heading into the second half of
this season twenty five, you're right there. They're probably one
creator short. The question for me is, and I think
I honestly think it's a good question, and should they
be in a rush, should they be in a hurry,
or should they just basically take this season at face
value and say, look, as long as we make the playoffs,
then the worst we can give the Spurs is like
the fourteenth selection or sorry, the fifteenth right, and then
our obligation to them for this year at least it
is over. Then we can go in and focus on,
you know, getting better for next year.
Speaker 1: And I kind of look at it as I wonder
if they need a little nudge to ensure that they
like because if they have to go in by virtue
of a plan, like I think you could make a
case and we're going to talk about one of these
teams shortly that the six spots in the East just
might be kind of sewn up. When you look at
the Cavs, Celtics and Knicks, Magic, Pacers and Bucks, I
don't know which team you're gonna view is the most
fragile from that sort of cadra of teams. And so
with the Hawks, I'm kind of like, I'm not telling
them they need to make a home run swing, but
if you could get I'm also wondering, like what type
of what level of creation do you want? Do you
want more of justice half court pick and roll tactician
or if you get someone who spaces the floor off
the ball and do a little bit on the ball,
maybe as a driver does that open things up for
Dyson Daniels as a playmaker more, because like the off
ball gravity on this team right now is a problem.
The name I thought about it just feels a little
too high end. If they're looking at kind of stratitude
to them, like con Sexted would be really good for
this team. He's not like a copslock creator for others,
but he can get downhill. And if you're looking for
someone to kind of dot the arc around Jalen Johnson
and Dyson Daniels more, that would be something that could
unlock younit to them. I just don't I'm not giving
up a first round pick if I'm the Hawks for
Colin Saxon. If I'm Utah, given this stash of picks
that I have, I probably I'm not giving up Colin
Sexon unless I get a really good offer.
Speaker 2: I like that idea of Colin. So I interviewed him
a couple of years back, no more than a couple
of years, probably prior to the pandemic, honestly, and I
was actually asking him about the point guard role, because
you know, I basically told him, like we all look
at you as a scorer, that is the role you've
been given and he was like, yeah, that is the
role I've given because that's what I'm best at doing.
And then he started going through how he saw the floor,
especially in transition, and like, there's a part of me
that once to explore that. I do think he's got
another level. I think teams have just kind of leaned
into him as a score because that is by far
his best skill. I would be down with that. Someone
who could just get you buckets but also just get
into an individual flow off the bench. I don't hate that.
I think that's that's an interesting three guard rotation. At
the very least, it'll be small because Colin sex is
like six or one. Yeah, yeah, like he's super small,
so him and Trey would be you know, it'd be
a small backcourt when they shared it. But then you look,
if you have researche and you have Jalen Johnson on
the floor, like the wing's kind offset it a little bit. Yeah,
And I.
Speaker 1: Think at the end we can ask, like, which of
these teams do we think is like the closest right
now to being acreous. This season will be a good
way to wrap that up, which means it's time more
to move on to your Chicago who should not be
in this discussion. I want to make that there's no
reason we should be talking about the Bulls through this
lens in the middle of January. It angers me to
my very core. And yet here we are.
Speaker 2: There's your Chicago Bulls. My god, I haven't podcaster with
Brian for like half a year, and I thought I'd
finally gotten ridden of that, and then now you're there
just picking up that responsibility. No, it's not my Chicago Bulls, Stan,
it hasn't been for a while. But I will say this,
it's gonna sound like I'm a Bulls fan right now
because I woult to stand in front of the fire
of Cyclobeine. Here people who are just constantly blaming him
for a B and C and oh, he's nothing but
a bad contract, he's this, this and that. Look, man,
this guy is sporting a true shooting percentage in the
mid sixties. He's he's hitting forty five percent from three
on over seven attempts per game. He's hitting like fifty
two percent from the field. He's ridiculously efficient, has been
for years. People love to point to last season when
he was injured, when he only played twenty five games
and was like, oh, look see he can't stay on
the floor, whereas before that it was perfectly reasonable. I
think he played like seventy three percent of games since then,
which for the NBA standers nowadays, is totally fine. He
should not be viewed as some sort of toxic contract.
I think this is it's getting utterly ridiculous. You can't
tell me that this guy wouldn't help. I don't know
that denmor Nuggets are someone else. Like, there are good
teams out there that would stand to benefit greatly from
trading for Saclovine, especially knowing that the Bulls, because of
these this last year and a half of trade rumors
and whatnot, they're not gonna get like a go bear
package for him, not even close. Like you can get
him for pretty cheap, and like then people will say, well,
what about the contract, who cares if you win the trade,
and like lopsidedly, So it's fine, Like, I'm not even
focusing on the Bulls right now. I'm just focusing on
Sacladine landing in a place where he gets a chance
to win, because I just think he's got He's been
stuck on the league's most media team in potentially history,
and I feel bad for him, Like save Saclobine is
kind of my monstraight here.
Speaker 1: He's been a monster and even in their most recent
game against the Kings that they lost, he was just
absolutely huge. And I think you could still question some
of his decision making. Yeah, no, it feels like he's
ignoring teammates, but I don't necessarily blame him. I was like,
but like looking but this team specifically, Like I want
to talk about the actual Bulls. Zach Lavine's been great.
Vouch is having the most efficient season of his career.
Still it's like he's cooled off a little bit. But
like since December first, thirty eight percent from three on
nearly five five attempts per game. I like, you have
we reached the point where based off what you would
get for these guys, because you're mentioned, I could make
the case too for is that I don't understand why
when it comes to Bradley Beal. I think if you
put Bradley Beal on a different role and you can
like have him do more things on the ball, run
more dhros with him, he'll actually be good. He won't
be worth his contract and he'll be good. You don't
for him, even if it's a very low cost because
of the no trade clause. More than anything, it's a
lot of money, and then he has power over when
and how he leaves. With someone like Zach Lviene, it's
sort of like, okay, like why why don't the Spurs
just copy together some contracts that they don't want and,
like Zach Collins, is just money they shouldn't have on
their books. That's you're almost halfway there at that point.
So then you have to figure out the other money.
Speaker 2: Did you listen to my Danish podcast that I recorded today?
Because that is funny. I actually brought up a cyclobne
suspurs star.
Speaker 1: I did not listen to it, but I do. I
am fluent in uh in Danish. Yeah, yeah, so don't worry.
I'll rest of shortst to it.
Speaker 2: Oh that's that's funny. I look, I'll I'll tell you
this though, you are sending the wrong guys to to
San Antonio, and I've been I've been talking about this
for I want to say six months or so. This
isn't This isn't the deal. The deal is Kobe White
and I to Sumu, well that we've actually you've talked
to We talked about that I have and I'm going
to reiterate myself here because that's a good one. I
like that trade.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you in a vacuum. But the
Bulls specifically, what do you make of this team, because
relative to what they're going to get back now for
zach Lavine or Avouch, you could almost understand why they
wouldn't like in theory, why are you trading Nikola Vucevic
for a second round pick right in salary just to
get off the final year of his deal, assuming that
you do end and this might be the bigger point
to keep the pick that you order the San Antonio
Spurs that are top ten protected and right now they
might just barely keep that. It's sort of billowing in
the win. Do you view what this team is doing
is one they don't need to make a trade to
ensure they keep that pick because they still kind of
have ah, well, shut down player X in their back pocket.
But is it also kind of a like an issue
of all right, well, have you seen enough from the
players they might want a round long term to say like, well,
they can kind of juggle those two things, and that
you don't need to make some of these moves to
one better position yourself for the future, but maybe get
even more information than you already have. Off modest buzzellis
whose role after being non existent now it'd say, it's
like moderate role for this team. Just where are you
sort of like at with the Bulls as currently constructed
and their overall direction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would not trust them to like, you know,
basically say, oh, we can always move guys in a
line up later in the year to lose. I wouldn't
trust at all. Because they changed their shot profile this year.
It's kind of this is so typical Bulls, like the
fan base have like spent years clamoring for a chain
shot profile and like more threes, more efficiency. They finally
do do it this year, and they're actually fun to
watch as a direct assault result. I know, I had
them super low on my League Pass rankings. I think
I had them like twenty eighth or something. And oh
as far as I'm you know, I yeah, but like
I look, I actually find them interesting to watch this
year because they're playing an up and down brand of basketball.
They're fun to watch. It's just the weirdest, weirdest timing
to do it because the need for rebuild. I think
you and I both agree on this, like it's it's
been there for a while now, Like we consider and
talk about, oh, why is there an argument that they
shouldn't know? Like, let's get that out of the way
first and foremost. There is no real argument for the
Bulls not blowing this to Smith Rereens. There's no argument
for it. Like I understand what you're saying though, like
given the current construct, given that what they that they
want to win, is there any reason for it? And no,
through that perspective, No, that said, of course this team
isn't going anywhere. The more concerning bid is that Billy
Donovan signed the contract extension. He has been on record
for saying he does not want to be a Satchel
rebuilding team, which suggests to your point, Dan, that they're
not going to rebuild, that they're not going to flip
you know, major pieces right now. Just to say part of.
Speaker 1: Part of that. And maybe this is me if I
wanted to play devil's advocate of your saying there's no
case to keeping it together when you only have let's
all throw Bruzelles and giddy and then there's like Kobe
White is kind of your maybe blue chip quarterstone options.
Speaker 2: Well, no, no, because the rules right there.
Speaker 1: You can again I agree with you there, but my
point being like, that's also if they're gonna trade Kobe White,
like none of these players for Kobe White, I think
they get two first round picks. But I think a
big thing. I don't know if front offices team spend
too much time thinking about this, but the optics of
not having that clear pole star. After I commend Sean
Marx has now done this like two or three times. Yeah,
hit reset without having that primary cornerstone in place, and
you figure it out as you go. I really do
think teams.
Speaker 2: Then Simons, okay, fair enough.
Speaker 1: I think teams are more reluctant to do that. And
with the Bulls, it's even if you just move Vouch
and Levigne for whatever and maybe see what you get
for some of the other guys on the roster. It's
like they almost feel like they're obligated to keep Kobe
White because he's the closest they come to that thing.
And Loo, Kobe White's really good. He's still like his
efficiency's down to tick this year, but he's he's scoring
at a faster clip while playing a few more minutes. I
know he's dealing with the eye injury at the moment.
I just they're fascinating to me because they are. When
I was saying that they're unwatchable, I was talking about
the preseason. They have been mostly a pleasant watch this
year and even look when you have zach Lavine and
like what Vuoch has been doing. A lot of the
appeal of them is like when they get up and down.
But like their half court offense is ten since December first,
Like this is a competent offensive team. I just don't
when we're talking about this, like this is not a
team I'm gonna consider as when we're which of these
teams is the most dangerous or can make the most noise?
Oh yeah, this year, of all the teams that we're
going to talk about, they're literally the only ones that
if they make a trade to add to this is inexcusable,
unforgivable and deserve to be trashed for it. And that's
I guess that's the definition of no man's land.
Speaker 2: That they're until they're better.
Speaker 1: Than expected, but not meaningfully enough to change their trajectory.
And yet if you're trading the players were talking about,
there's only one that I think gives you a bunch
of value when you look at it through the lens
of draft equity. And I also don't think fans are
conditioned to grade trades through the or interpret trades through that,
which is which is fine. But like some of the
biggest criticisms I get with my trades or when I'm
reacting to trades is they didn't get any players back,
or look at what salary is going, and it's well,
look at the draft picks there getting I don't I
think the Bulls kind of manage their I mean their fans,
to be clear, I think would have managed a better
team at this point. I'm not saying bull fans are
opposed to a rebuild. I'm just I don't think this
team has the stomach to go that route to where
maybe they'll Tradevouch. I'm almost at the point where I
don't think they're gonna trade zac Lavine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think you're right. I mean, look that
is I think I even was that Casey Johnson someone
else someone covering the Bulls might have actually been Will Gottlieb.
I don't remember. Someone said that they could see the
Bulls trade one guy and as to not create too
much turnover right off the bat because they move slow.
They just this is a team that has gone through
years and years without trades, wearing examples beforehand, like this
is a team that's way too patient for their own good.
So it is sort of a dream scenario for a
lot of Bulls fans that both Sac and Vooch are
traded like during the same trade to line, like, I'm
not gonna put it past them to do so, I'm
not going to say the Bulls could never, but it
it's a stretch of the imagination for sure. Absolutely, Booch
is probably the main guy because if you don't cash
in on his season right now, he's.
Speaker 1: Just an aspiring contract in the offseason.
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, exactly, you might as well tell a team, look,
you can get two playoffs out of him right now.
And if he maintains this current production, this current efficiency
for this year, you have a real guy right here,
at least for this year. So like if the Bulls
failed to trade the Kola Busovich this trade deadline, that's
also malpractice. Like again, they put themselves in this situation,
Dan where it's so difficult to see them succeed in
many many ways. Like hel They even have a center
who I think is ready to start ahead of Boach
if he's moved. Jalen Smith is right there. I would
have no issue throwing him to the start of lie.
Speaker 1: That's both of them has been. The idea of both
of them has been pretty big for their offense where
you just have so many floor spacing minutes at the five.
I know Jalen Smith percentages can rise and fall want
to ask too, And to his credit, I've been pretty
hard on that trade. And I know a lot of
Bulls fans have pushed back. They're like, look at the
money CRUs have gotten his extension. He's injured right now.
Not shooting well, Josh can He's played a little better.
Like the shooting inside the arc is ticked up. The
Bulls are officially better for the season at both ends
of the floor with him on the court, I do
not think maybe aside from ending possessions with the rebound,
I still don't think he provides much value at all
on the defensive end.
Speaker 2: Oh he does not. Those numbers are certainly cherry or
not cherry pick, but like very highly influenced that the
other people on the on the court with him.
Speaker 1: Yes, I still just don't know that I like this
is this, I will say, if not his ideal circumstance,
but it might come pretty close when you're talking about
the geography of how this offense is set up in
the half court. I still just don't see it with him.
I'm gonna be so fascinated by how much they pay
him or again, I don't think he's been terrible, and
I don't. My stands has just never been that he's
one of the worst players in the NBA. I think
he's just one of the most uniquely specific skill sets
that doesn't do enough in his optimal role to justify
tailoring your team to that uniquely specific skill set. You
have to be Onion Williams in peak Zion Williams in
healthy level to be that type of when you're again
when your skill set and position whatever archetype is just
so narrow.
Speaker 2: I love that you pointed out Sion specifically, because I
was gonna make that comparison, like some players are immensely talented,
but they're just awful to build around, Like you cannot
build something around them unless they're utterly elite at like
two or three things Josh Giddy has. Here's the thing
people were saying, you know, oh he has elite court vision,
Like I'm not there, like he's he doesn't have, you know,
Trey Young court mission, he doesn't have like that sense.
He's like he's a good pastor. I'll that I'll go
to my grave with. Because that's absolutely true. He's a
phenomenal rebounder. That's it. That is literally it, Like you
can he can rebound, he can pass the ball, that's it,
and you can't structure anything of substance around that. Like
if the Bulls feel pressured because they make that deal,
go into this offseason and say two to Josh Giddy,
Look here you go twenty five million a year. That
is like, first and foremost, who are you gonna like,
who are you negotiating against for him?
Speaker 1: I mean like restricted free agencies become non existent for
the most part, Like these teams are not tendering offer sheets.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I wouldn't. I wouldn't even be interested in
resigning him if I'm the Bulls.
Speaker 1: Well that's interesting. I mean they do have depending on
what he gets. When you look at how that Patrick
Williams steel is aging at the moment, they would have
some potential to have like two of the worst contracts.
I guess some people still consider Zaclavine's contract bad, but
and I like, that's the other thing too, is just
the Patrick Williams deal does not look any better. I
don't like. I still he definitely has a ton of
defensive utility. His shootings in three since December one has
been borderline atrocious, sub thirty two percent. This team is
tough because I'm gonna have.
Speaker 2: To eat crow by the way on the Patrick Williams thing,
because over the over the summer, I was like, this
contract is fine, like he was hwise, he was like
trending towards a couple of years ago. He was trending
towards oh g nnobe territory, And I was like, you
know what, I kind of buy it Like he was.
He was sort of like the last resort on offense.
I never like singled out Tomar for like taking away
develop and touches necessarily because I did think he was
too passive. But there was a part of me was thinking, like, okay,
when Damar's gone, when he wasn't using all those possessions
in the mid range area. All right, that's going to
open up shots for Patrick Williams. I'm not worried, Oh
my god, to have an egg on my face and
I'm eating crow at the same time. What a side
that I am.
Speaker 1: I don't even remember what we thought about the average
annual value. We probably thought it could be neutral. We
Grant and myself were just flabberg acid that he got
a player option. What was who was First of all,
he couldn't even get a fifty from anybody else and why.
I understand player options can have benefits because maybe they'll
opt out and come out of a lower number, but
it was just it was mind boggling. So to wrap
it up on the bulls, I have to ask you, Yeah,
we're talking in circles and we're confused, and we've noticed things,
we've made observation. Is there anything that you see this
season that you can take away and nods to a
semi coherent or positive long term trajectory for this team,
because I guess that's what still is. I don't understand
what their intentions, like, I mean, I'm looking at it
this way. I'm not even trying to like say that
what they're doing is right, but how are they viewing
this team? And like what is I don't even understand
their perspective, Like I just don't.
Speaker 2: That's a that's a mental exercise. Bulls have tried, Bulls
fans have tried to understand for four years, and they
are growing literally insane because of it, because no one
sees it. Look I will. I've always prided myself on
never saying I would do as good a job in
a GM role, because I think that's lunacy. Every single
GM in the NBA has has forgotten more about basketball
than I'll ever know. The Bulls are quickly becoming an
exception for me and about one hundred of my closest
and bea friends in terms. So like people who cover
the league, you would sleepwalk into doing a better job
Dan in Chicago than our towards Carnis Shovers and Mark
Eversley is doing right now. It's it's so egregiously put
together from a front office perspective that I can't sit
here and say, oh, what are like what are the
redeemon pieces? Like you know how low I am right now?
I'm looking at Masas Brussella's and Julian Phillips and going,
well they might be keepers. Those are the two people
I can single out everyone else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Talon Horton Tucker plays like Cristiano Felicio wants to
dribble more, you know, and.
Speaker 2: He's like he takes threes. That looks like exactly like
how Chuck took threes back in the day. Yeah, no
interesting player, but like, oh.
Speaker 1: No, I'm being completely facetious.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, good right, But like I just I don't
see like oh Dalen Terry, Like no, I just I
there's no one there where I'm like, yeah, untradable or
not untradable, but like, yeah, this is a core piece
and that's why they should tear it all down. That's
that's also why I think they should get control of
their draft pick back, because that's how.
Speaker 1: Old are you gonna find that player? If he's not
on the rustle, you need to get it through the
draft and right now. Even if you get to keep
your pick, yep, number eight or nine, maybe that's fine
in this draft, but like it's different then. But by
the way, the real final thing is, is it too late?
Just because if you're trying to get you know, top
end lottery odds. They are off of a bottom five record,
Like I guess there, they have twenty one losses and
they're about seven losses behind a bottom five record with
you know, teams like the Jazz, the Nets and the
Wizards are determined to lose and they're going nowhere. And
I assume at some point if they're not there already,
the Pelicans, the Raptors, these are all teams have lost
a bunch, but you don't necessarily know if that's their aim.
One or two of those teams is gonna feel the
same way and they've already and that might, by the way,
that might contribute to why the Bulls don't do much,
if anything at the trade deadline. Is well, how are
we supposed to catch these teams that are worse than
us already?
Speaker 2: It's it's kind of wild, right, So imagine this. The
Bulls are loosers. If they sit still, they're loosers. If
they're buyers, they're only winners, like they're only winners if
they have a fire sale.
Speaker 1: And by the way, some people might not even consider
them that because are they gonna move? Of all the players,
they're most likely to move. There's a is there a
chance none of them, like Kobe White, would get you
first round picks. I don't think they're gonna move Kobe White,
though I think they should. I've been pretty clear, but
I think he's good and that's why they should move them.
This isn't a Kobe White is His trade value is
like it was probably highest over the off season, and
it's just going to continue to get lower because the
time left on Asian as you mentioned the one hundred
and forty percent extension rules, They're they're probably not gonna
trade him, and so they don't have a single like
Zach Lavine. I would give up a first round pick
for Zach Lavine for two?
Speaker 2: Would the Bulls ask for it?
Speaker 1: That might be? It's that might be where it's time
to move on. Is that the bulls remain confusing? Is
how I mean?
Speaker 2: I will just say that. In my Yahoo piece where
I also brought up the bulls, I actually I specifically
typed out that you might be able to get away
with less because these bulls are just so god awful
at negotiating so like and and look, I didn't even
say as a joke, like there's historical precedents of this
current front office being horrible negotiators. I think we have
to bag it into our analysis. Like if you're an
NBA team out there who listens to the hardwood knocks,
because obviously you should be, give them a call, give them,
give the bulls a call.
Speaker 1: Throws up at the wall and see it sticks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like more than look, you have pretty decent knots.
Like you're at a bar at four am in the morning,
where and you're a little drunk. That person at the
end of the bar looks looks pretty good. That's where
they are all the time. Just go go try well.
Speaker 1: Actually, we're about to talk about what I think is
one of the best aclavine destinations in the league, and
that's the Detroit Pistons. Oooh more. You know they're pretty good.
They are these in and it's okay, they're below average
offense and defense. They're twelfth in offense since December first,
they're thirteen to nine in the clutch. Kate Cunningham is amazing.
People are still just going to point to the true
shooting percentage and say there, so that miss me with it,
Like you want him to be more efficient as time
goes on. But the shots that he's taking the level
of responsibility shoulders on the offense. He drives everything for
this team, and I think even just as a playmaker,
he's improved as a I'm repeating myself for other podcasts.
He's improved as a defender, He's improved as a rebounder.
He's been fantastic. We've seen better play from the veterans
since the Jade and Ivy injury. That's been big. Just
the general setup of their offense, and there's you know,
there's a lot of iffy center play going around with them.
Jayalen Duran has his moments and also has his I
guess we'd call them non moments.
Speaker 2: I don't really know. Yeah, unfortunately, so I was expecting
a little bit more out of him this year, But
you know what, he's still super young, so let's give
him time.
Speaker 1: And just I mean, Malie Beasley's been huge for them.
Even we killed the Tim Hardaway junior transaction, just I
thought they pounced a little too early and giving up
Quentin and grinds the process him to space the floor,
having to buyas Harris play better to space the floor,
even match up against just some tougher defensive coverages. This
is all to say, and this isn't news anyone who's
listened to this or more or I think look, even
some of the like the mainstream national podcasts are beginning
to talk about the Pistons. That's how you know the
Pistons are good. They are good. What is fascinating with
them more is all right before we get into their
pick that they owe to Minnesota and if they should
do anything at the trade deadline this roster, specifically knowing
that Jay and Ivy isn't gonna play this season, also
kind of knowing the roles I still love Astar Thompson,
particularly on the defensive end, but knowing the I would
say the somewhat muted roles that a star Thompson and
Ron Holland have. What is your view of this team
this season as presently constructed as to what, like, how
good they are, how good they could ultimately be.
Speaker 2: I still think there's a ceiling. I mean, don't get
me wrong. What we've seen over the past few weeks
has been extremely encouraging. The fact that Kate has doubled
Ubb is the biggest to take away from me, Like
I'm not even looking at them necessarily from like a
team lens right now. I think I'm looking at them
more so through the Kate lens because I think that
was mission number one for them this year was trying
to figure out, what do we actually have in Kate Cunningham.
Does he have the upside that we were anticipating picking
him first back then, because remember his comp going into
draft was like the American Luka Doncic. That was the idea,
that was the expectation. Then he had the year where
he only played twelve games. He came back the year
after played well, but a lot of people felt like
he left something on the table. Now he's finally figuring
it out. I think he's become a much better pass
or much better like floor leader than I actually envisioned
he would be at age twenty three, So loads of
upside for him now. Trying to tailor that back to
your question in terms of like the broader spectrum of
the team, I do think there's a ceiling. I do
think there's a ceiling like Jaden going out huge huge
laws like if you're if you're going to have any
sort of playoff aspirations and you make it to the playoffs,
who is going to be your creators outside of kid
can can you rely on Tim Martini internship to go
in and create Probably not, not Tobias Harris either. Like
Ron Holland is still, in my opinion, a year maybe
two away from being like that guy at the Wingspot.
There are a lot of questions still open for those guys,
like they want a ton of game until the past
couple of weeks. Is that a blip? Is that real?
I think those conversations are real.
Speaker 1: They've been Yeah, they've been pesky for pretty much the
entire year. I'm I'm very I think I we know
what they need on offense. It's just I think they
You could have made this case even with j and
Ivy being a better fit for this team before his injury,
if you need the other creator who can run things
without Kaid and like, but you also want them to
be able to play alongside kids. When the vein of
J and Ivy improving his away from the ball like gravity,
you want that from them as well. But I don't
know how to feel about this team defensively, and I
think that JB. Bickerstaff, from what I've seen of the Pistons,
has done a good job of maybe vacillating the approach
where it's like it feels like they go through these
pockets of more aggression, but then there's gonna be more conservative.
But when you're looking at the personnel they're leaning on
most I don't know how to feel about them defensively
or how you would go about I think they could
probably upgrade it, ironically if they played some of the
youngsters more in a Highland or a Soward Thompson specifically,
But I don't think you're gonna do that without severely
compromising an offense that has been ultra competent with kid
who is Like we talk about veterans stepping up without
je and Ivy cad on the season thirty five points
per one hundred without j and Ivy on the floor,
Like this is just Kate, Like they have the hardest
thing for the Pistons is already done. We have questions
probably about everyone else on the roster, or or you
could have questions. The hardest part is done, Kay Cunningham,
is that dude. You could rank him how you feel
about him, rest everyone else? The hardest part set I
just they're pesky. I find myself and this gets into
the moves I want them I'm not saying they give
up a first round pick, but their top their pick
is owed to Minnesota this year top thirteen protected. I'm
a huge advocate for increasing your flexibility moving forward and
being able to move on your feet a little bit more.
And what if you get really good, you want to
be unencumbered by that obligation. And we just talked about
this with the Bulls. It's certainly the case with the Pistons,
who are less likely to enter a mode where they
shut down the time to say, oh, like no, this
team could still get like ultra top lottery odds, but
it's gone, so if you can buy without giving up
future first round equity. That's where I'm at with them
is I think that they're they're that good, but they
also could just be Like, looking at where they are
right now, I would be fairly surprised if they do
nothing and get a top six spot in the East.
But like as a top eight, like one of the
better playing teams, I think they could do nothing and
that'll just be absolutely in play.
Speaker 2: Yeah fine, yeah, no, I hear you on that. So
what do you what do you reckon right now? If like,
what do you think internal their thinking do you think
they share your approach by basically saying, look, if we
just make it to the play to the playoffs, everything
is gravy from there.
Speaker 1: If they make it to the playoffs, that absolutely is
the mindset. It might even be the plane for them,
because you mentioned this with oh, right the Hawks, like
sending the twelfth pick to Minnesota or something like, well,
you wouldn't send the twelfth pick, but like if you
just make the plan, so then you're gonna get your
pick anyway if you wind up getting bounce from it
in all likelihood. So I am curious what their thought
process would be, but I don't even know, Like is
the like is what I outline is what I think
is their biggest need? Like is that even right given
the success that they're still continuing to have on offense,
or that might they look at it as we need
kind of more bankable center player. Can someone blur the
lines of both Isaiah Stewart and Jaleen Duran together to
do that those are probably the spots or I think
you can even say it's weird to say that they
have so many needs, but they are kind of filled
with placeholders and unproven players, like getting someone who's more
of a two way wing than they ultimately have right
now because they don't have do they have a two
way wing on the roster? Who's the closest that comes
to meeting the two way wing criteria for them.
Speaker 2: Down the line? Ron holloand right now? Because that's right now,
that's I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1: Isn't that even more impressive they're getting. I know you've
seen like probably some better like defensive moments from certain guys,
like they're doing what they're doing right now, I would
say with I don't know if the word is dearth,
but they're probably at just a two way player deficit
to players that you know are going to give you
this at both ends of the floor every single night.
Isn't that positive?
Speaker 2: So why do you want to trade for secloleen?
Speaker 1: Well? I just you could get well, could you get him?
You might have to give up a young player to
get him, which I guess is where it gets icy.
But like you kind of have that when you look
at Tim Hardaway Junior. Because so my big thing with
them would be if you're gonna lean into the offense,
let's get some more on ball gravity there, and you're
just not going to have that in Tim Hardaway Junior,
You're not even gonna have that and to buy Harrison,
so you throw Zach Lavine into the fold here. I
guess the biggest criticism would be, I don't care about
the money, Like, as long as you're not sending off
future first round picks, I don't care about the money.
What does that mean for Jade and Ivy's future with
this team if Zack Lavine is all of a sudden
on it.
Speaker 2: And that's why I probably wouldn't do it. I actually
want to see this team stay on the timeline a
little bit. I'm also a little curious as to why
they basically told I Saya Stewart to stop taking threes.
That's that's something I'm a little weird about buy because
I want to see them more spaced out offensively. Uh
And he was. I think he was showing signs of
becoming a pretty reliable three point shooter. There are there
are definitely some internal things I would I would change.
I would go out and try to find guys that
are a little closer to the timeline of CAD because,
like I think, I think their thought process from last
year to this year. Also when they underwent the entire
management management restructure. Is we need more adults in the room. Okay,
mission accomplished. You got Tobias Harrus in there, Tim Hardaway,
you and your Malik Beastley, Smoe von Sekio is still there.
So like you have the adults in the room, that's great.
Like you said, those are placeholders, is you also have
to like factor in is now the tign to remove
those placeholders for like timeline pieces or are you still
a year away from doing that? Maybe if you take
off the training wheels now, maybe that's too soon. Like
there's a balancing act here that I have a very
hard time identifying as to when it's the right time.
Speaker 1: So you don't think that we know enough about them
or maybe even that they're dangerous enough as is to
take that type of like a more aggressive approach into
the trade deadline.
Speaker 2: Again, it depends on the player, like I will say,
as much like like you said, if you go out
and get a guy like look, let's just bring up
cyclobene again, because like say, let's say you trade Tobias
Harris and Tim Hardaway junior form. You know you're not
relinquishing draft Carabital Cyclobin is also twenty nine, so you
still get an adult in the room, Like on some
level you know it's I would do that. Yeah, sure
I would do that. Like that's an aggressive move and
you get a substantial challenge Jackson, that's that's never a
bad thing. What I'm then wondering is what's the next step? Like,
like you said, because then is he going to take
over ja Nibs mean is like what is he going
to take necessary shots away from Kate? Like, what's the plan?
Speaker 1: Would you view? Could something maybe in the middle of
that be okay, well, let's get a different type of
or more consistent big man in here. Then, like if
they honestly you know what they could do. I don't
know if Portland would do it. They don't even need
to send out money to take in Robert Williams the third.
Could you give up enough seconds for Portland to say, like,
would that be an avenue they should go where? Okay,
you're not getting you're not getting the three point shooting
element out of your centers right now.
Speaker 2: Your half court.
Speaker 1: Defense over the path past month plus in particular, has
been a mess. That is, someone who can contain the
ball if you need him to come out, but he's
he can also like he's not huge, but he can
do stuff around the basket and then he gives you.
I mean, I guess the way that they've used Isaiah
Stewart iss Er, you could say that Robert Williams the
third if he's fully healthy, which always a question.
Speaker 2: Uh. I was about to say, I love the idea
of Robert Williams for the sixteen games.
Speaker 1: So sturting out anybody, you're just kind of taking a
fire on him with seconds? Is that something that or
does that that doesn't do it for you?
Speaker 2: Either, it's not, and I'm just gonna I'm just gonna
tell you how it is. That doesn't get me hard,
baby whatsoever.
Speaker 1: I still I'm super intrigued by them. I just don't
I don't know that they have even though statistically they
have at points this season. I don't know how much
of a higher defensive ceiling they're gonna be able to
carve out with this current group unless they really I
don't want to say submarine, but definitely like ding like
their offensive dynamics right now.
Speaker 2: I wonder if they even worry about it, Like I
wonder if they are just taking the approach, like you
said earlier, like basically if they if they just make
it to the play in, then they're fine.
Speaker 1: And then I think it's fine. I'm just interpreting this
as we're having the discussion of like which of these
teams is the most dangerous? Is they're like yeah in
Detroit winning out in this discussion relative to and like
those are probably you need to figure out how to
wait to be on the threat level of the Pacers
the Sixers type for the most part, And so you
think the Hawks the Hawks too, And I mean, like,
I don't know, there might be some more room between
me and I don't know what to talk about, but
the Sixers. There might be some like real head and
shoulders room between the Pistons and then peak Hawks and Pacers.
But it's just it's way closer than I ever would
have thought it was.
Speaker 2: I think, oh, sorry, just to wrap it up, like
you said, something in between, like the sacla bene thing
like some some want a little less than that. I
don't have a specific name in mind, but I do
think like if you go into the traded line with
a set of rules, you basically say we absolutely refuse
to give up draft capital what sort like draft equacy
is off the freaking table. Will trade player contracts and
that's it. If you can somehow find a small consolidation
trade where you do bank on some type of talent injection,
be that a wing, be that a guard, be that
a big. I honestly do not care because the injury
to Jade and Ivy. That's why I'm opening up the guards.
But as well, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't hate that. I
would only encourage them to do so as long as
you are not removing draft picks from the equation, because
this team could still struggle later on. I don't think
just because they found the rhythm now we have this
tendency of watching the m BE and going, oh, this
team is good now, that means they'll be good forever.
Like no, maybe not. They could go in and have
a major law later in the season. And that's why
that's just the rule that I would go into the
trade headline with. If I'm piss just everything is interesting
except for deals that involves us giving up draft equity.
Speaker 1: I think I would even go one step further and
saying said most I agree with everything you're saying, I
wouldn't go I wouldn't give up draft equity. Even said
that if you could get Za Levine without giving it up,
I really might consider I'm not gonna lie. I would
take it one step further and say, because they still
need to care about the bigger picture. If you can
use your cap space right now and even some of
your contractual dynamics to take on money that's gonna spill
it next year, but it's attached to enough, either like
something that's intriguing enough as a draft pick or even
a prospect, you are still I'm not telling the thing
I wouldn't do. As an example, if I'm not gonna
get a first round pick from Leak Beasley, who they're
not gonna have bird rights on this summer, so they're
probably only gonna be able to offer the non times
payimer level exception I'm holding onto him. So like portraying
this team as sellers, I don't like. Yeah, there are
no one on this roster aside from Cage is truly untouchable.
But this is not a team that should go into
the trade deadline looking to actively sell. But I also
don't think that they need to prioritize this season specifically
when they're looking at that cap space. Our next team
is the Indiana Pacers lively bunch of late More, which
not coincidentally coincided with the return of Andrew Nemhart on
December first and first, and before I even throw it
to you, uh, they have been since he returned, eighth
in points score possession and more importantly ninth in points
allowed per possession and equally important to that, third in
defensive rebounding rate. How are you feeling about these Indiana
Pacers with the quick caveat Tyre's Haliburton left their win
over the Cleveland Cavaliers with a left hamstring strain, and
that's the same hamstring that he's had problems with in
the past. And as we're recording this, we don't have
a prognosis an update time. You will miss if any.
Speaker 2: I was actually gonna talk about Tyrs Halburton, because yes,
one thing is that the winning street coincided with the
return of Henry dam Hart. That's one thing I would
just like to reach you. The numbers prior to the
game that Haliburton went out the five games prior twenty
four point eight points per game, ten point eight assists,
two steals, got to the line five point two times
per game, eighty eight and a half percentage conversion rate,
forty eight point seven percent from three on almost eight
attempts per game, fifty four point seven percent shooting overall.
This is the Tyrese Halibert and we've been waiting on.
He'd spent the vast majority of the start of the
season being very mediocre, very passive. I want to say,
I even wrote about over at Forbes when he's starting
to string together a couple of games, and unfortunately for me,
the timing was right because then he started just keep
playing like that. If if it turns out that he's
out for a while and knock on wood, that that
is not the case, that's a huge, huge loss. I mean,
he this is what was needed for them. If he
plays like this, you know the twenty five eleven and
last year before he started getting injured, it was twenty
six twelve. If he plays at that level, there's a
reasonable argument to be had that he's in that, you know,
best traditional point guard in the NBA type of scenario,
because look, I will always go Luca in that regard,
but he's not traditional. Luca is the exact opposite of traditional.
So you know, but he is their main driver. Like
we just talked about the Pistons that they've found their guy,
Kate Cunningham. They've found him. He's there a guy moving forward.
This is the Tyrese Haliburton that can push the Pacers
into unknown territory in the playoffs. This is the Tyrese
Haliburton that can have them go back to the Eastern
Conference Finals even though they were a low set. This
is the Tyrese Haliburton who can surprise everyone and get
them I don't know, all the way to the finals.
Maybe because he is such a driver. He is such
a relentless force when he's on and his jump shut
is on that the trickle down effect of his game
is so wild that it's He's probably one of the
main guys in the Eastern Conference who just drives so
much of his team success. So everything you're gonna ask
me about the Pacers right now, I'm pretty much gonna
come it back to Tyres Haliburton because he is by
far the intern engine that drives the show.
Speaker 1: I would agree with you, but I think that the
defense of uptick we've seen from them, and he's had
better moments, specifically away from the ball as a defender,
and Kaitlyn Cooper surprise surprise, also did a fantastic breakdown
over a back road.
Speaker 2: Look on my face, I'm so surprised that Kitlyn Cooper
said smart for things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just transcending analysis from her once again about how
they're more just connected, yeah, and versatile defensively, And again
I think Andrew Nemmar is a lot to do with that,
being able too if they're to sustain this and just
knowing they have a starting five that is slaughtering opponents
on the season, and I think there, I think their
net raking is actually higher on the season than it's
been since December. First, when you filter throughout carbs, I mean, regardless,
they're I think plus nineteen point eight per one hundred
posessions with the starters on the court this season. That's
a big deal. And I don't I still struggle to
see what their ceiling is within the Eastern Conference is
currently constructed. I think of the teams we've talked about
so far, they are the most likely to just finish,
stay inside the top six or even move up maybe
being what are they are? They like fourth as a recordinger,
they're within striking distance of I mean, they have the
same losses as the matt They're right there with the Bucks.
They have that type of ceiling. I'm gonna be curious too,
and I owe Pacers fans an apology. It was one
very cool to see how many people pointed out that
we were wrong within the first few hours of it
going live, because it meant that people do listen to us.
But I got the Pacers pick pick commitments wrong, and
how to remove it from the podcast we published over
the over the weekend, just a brain fart. There is
this a team that should be looking to do and
I mean, like even one of the things that you
would we would all have identified as their biggest need
was like they need, especially with the injuries to Isaiah Jackson,
like the Achilles injuries. James Wigman was all they didn't need,
like a different backup big option. And we kind of
laughed at the Thomas Bryant acquisition. It's not really funny
anymore because he's playing well for them, and both him
and Miles Turner, I think they've been put in better
situations when you're watching them on defense opponents. Since December Firs,
they're shooting under fifty five percent at the rim against
both of them. So it's not just like Turner being
sort of shut down Turner. It's like, Okay, Thomas Bryant,
You're getting enough out of him. There is this I
do a team historically, even though the Pacers went out
and got Siakam last year and then traded a buddy Healed,
I would expect them to stand pat But I'm also
kind of wondering because I think Jarres Walker has shown
moments a lot of the times offensively, but he's shown
defensive moments. Meddig Maths has shown defensive moments even when
he's pulling off. I don't know how good a fit
either of those two still are long term? Are those
you're not gonna I'd be shocked if they traded a
twenty twenty seven conditional first round pick. Do you look
at using one of those guys plus more money to
go and get like another just wing it doesn't have
to be someone who's cracking your closing lineup, or do
you look at this roster and say, motherfuckers Aarony Smith
hasn't played it since November first, like we're just gonna
get our mid season acquisition from him and we're just
gonna continue running like they've been that good over a
long enough stretch to where I think maybe I don't
know if they should, but they've certainly earned the right
to say, like, we're not gonna go out here and
make any semi not even substantial but just semi material move.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: I'm hashtag all star. I've seen the push to get
Tyr's Aliburton on there. I think he's been the most
consistent pacer this year, and he's been yes to get
this version of him still, Like when you also have
Tyr's Haliburton playing like Tyry's Haliburton, that's huge for Indiana.
We just hadn't mentioned him, so I needed to throw
his name.
Speaker 2: No, you should absolutely name Pascal Siakam, because yeah, he's
worth it. I'm sitting here looking at the salaries because
that's the thing you can talk about adding Bennettt Mathrin
or Jeris Walker to a deal. I'm kind of toying
with something larger, Like if you combine their salaries, you're
at thirteen point five, and if you're add topping, that's
probably thirteen. So what are we looking at thirteen?
Speaker 1: That's twenty six million and they're they're not whatever they do,
they're not going to pay the tax and they're within
i think two six seven dollars of the tack. So
it's it's going to be an even money or less
trade anyway.
Speaker 2: Right for sure. But so so that's like, that's why
I'm trying to get the money up there. And it's
not going to be a three for one. That's never
like the roster spots issues is a thing. So you're
probably looking at the three for two deal. Question is who,
like what type of archetype should they should they kind
of identify?
Speaker 1: I mentioned his name once or twice for them before,
and you don't need all those contracts that us It
might actually be harder because he's making so little. Okay,
let's get heywo high Smith to Indiana. Like that's the
like what are the heat gonna do following the Jimmy
Butler stuff sort of ending and what does it take
to get him though, because you're not giving up any
of like you're not giving up a future. First, you're
not giving up bennecmather or Jaris Walker for Hayward high
Smith alone, that would be just another maybe you want
them to be bigger up but like just another like
really feisty guy to come in on the perimeter and
ensure that you have different variable combinations where maybe if
you don't want to lean on Ben Sheppard too much,
like does that's just been another you use the word
feisty before, like talk about feisty on defense. Ben Shepard
typifies that to a t. That could be an interesting
name for them. I just don't know.
Speaker 2: It's it's a sicone name. I get it. I kind
of want to go juicier than that. I don't have
a name, but I want to go a little juicier
than that.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler, how's that?
Speaker 2: And that is certainly juicy. I don't think that the
contracts are going to get you there. That's the thing,
Like we we have to find someone who is because
I think with the way that Halberton is playing right now,
you know, you can talk about timelines all day long,
but he's like such a win now player because of
the level of production. You can even say the same
about a twenty one year old woman Yamo, for example,
Like when you're playing at that level, you're automatically a
win now player. Bennetig Maatherrin, even though he's better this year.
I think it's still a couple of years away from being,
you know, a winning player, a fully functional, influential player.
I think he's a couple years away from that. Certainly
you can say the same about Jaris Walker. I wouldn't
hate the Pacers basically being buyers and saying all right,
let's accelerate the youth movement. I wouldn't mind that, but
it has to be with the right piece, and I'm
trying to identify what the right piece is. Hayward Heismith
was not the first game off the top of my dome, though.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I'm sort of resigned and reached the
point even though I've probably bandied about different thoughts to it,
like they've been. They are one of the teams where
it's I have a great feel for what they've done lately,
but I just feel like I need to contin continuously
adjust my impressions of them more than a lot of
these other teams. I'm kind of at the point where
I'm resigned to don't. I wouldn't have expected them to
do anything big, but I also don't know that they
need to at this point. I mean, like the Airnis
Smith of it, all like, that's a really big absence
to be navigating at this point.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you about Miles turn or are you
married to him in terms of the future?
Speaker 1: No, I mean he's gonna be a free agent. This
team has taxed payroll concerns, and if you want to
keep and pay Benedicmathrin and Andrew Nemhard, who's extension will
kick in, as well as jars Walker. That's like, there's
only really one untouchable player on this roster's ply Tyres Halbert.
And I think for where they're going, you add Siakam
to that this season. But I just like, how big
of a swing do you want? I think it needs
to come? Like, who would be the upgrade? What are
you trying to upgrade the big man spot using Turner?
Because if you move him, your ceenter rotation is in shambles.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I would try to upgrade the center position.
That was my idea, But I'm also struggling to find
a player. This is this is the thing. I feel
like this traded line specifically is a little bit poorly
tailored for the pacers. I don't think there's like that
name out there that makes a lot of sense, So
I'm trying to come up with like something creative here,
and I'm kind of failing because it I just don't
know which direction to go in here. There.
Speaker 1: I think there are players who would work, but a
lot of them are probably just too expensive to a
point where I wouldn't advocate to go get them, and
they're not They're also not going to want to go
get them or give up the level of equity that
you need.
Speaker 2: Right or they're perfectly salaried in a sense where you
don't really know who what kind of player you're gonna
get because they might be untested or whatever. It's you know,
you know who. Actually, it would actually be fun that
the Hawks would never trade him. Yan Stree Hunter on
this team would be fun.
Speaker 1: Do you think he does enough defensively for them?
Speaker 2: I don't think I care Dan?
Speaker 1: All Right, there you go.
Speaker 2: I honestly don't think I care.
Speaker 1: They were mentioned. Granted I thought I was a Cam
Johnson team. He fits everywhere I think going to Okay,
that doesn't like we don't care about the defense there.
I just I'm more so looking at I don't want
someone who's gonna compromise their offense. But I would still
prioritize maybe just like some real defensive size on the
perimeter is what I look at this team and say that,
especially for the postseason, I think that's what they need.
And I don't know that a Cam Johnson satisfies that.
Speaker 2: I keep returning to my main point that I've also
said on this show before, which is the team with
the most points at the end of the game wins.
Like you still you still need to put the ball
in the baskets are and I think, but you can
talk about wing defense, we can talk about post defense
all game long or all day long. He were in
a game. So, but you need shot bakers, you need
someone to spread the floor. You need to optimize Tyr's
Halliburton's offensive game first and foremost, and then you build
from there.
Speaker 1: I guess the issue there, though, is so Cam Johnson,
are you are you giving up A twenty twenty seven
first for excuse me A twenty twenty eight first? What
is wrong with me? I keep getting their pick them
and it's wrong. I apologize Pacers fans, it's just in
my head now, But look, you're not giving up that
just didn't first for Cam Johnson, I wouldn't think and
then I don't even know. That might be a deal
where both teams say no, where it's okay, you're using
Mathrin and Walker's the primary forms of compensation.
Speaker 2: What's that? Maybe not both?
Speaker 1: Do you think one of them, if one of them
get you Cam Johnson? I mean I'd prefer it to
be Mathrin at this point, just because I think there's
probably some redundancies and counterintuitiveness to how he plays relative
to how the Pacers want to play. I just I'd
be curious whether him alone is standalone value, especially given
now you have to figure out the rest of the
money from there. What that does? And I think that.
Speaker 2: Leads me to this, what's that chopping?
Speaker 1: I'm not the Nets or not. I'd be shocked if
they didn't Mathron and top in for Cam Johnson.
Speaker 2: That would top has a lot of long term but
he's cheap though. Like the Nets. Here's the thing. The
Nets could take Toppin right, sprinkle him with something and
then turn him into a first in about six months.
Speaker 1: I mean he had three years left on his deal.
Speaker 2: I know, but like the Nets done it before, I
wouldn't be shocked.
Speaker 1: I just would you think that. I mean, I would
do that deal. If I was Indiana, would you still
feel okay about there? Yeah? I mean Cam Johnson could
play both front court spots really for them, they'd be fine.
I just don't view that as I if that's the
deal I'm doing it. I just don't know if that.
Like I'm the more I think about this team more,
I'm like, I might just see what they have through
at this like what happens when Knees Smith comes back,
and what do they look like, and then if they
need to, they can reorient over the offseason. I think
that's where I'm at with the Pacers, because I know
people have kind of viewed them as this paper tiger
relative to how far they made it last season. They're
substantially better than that. And I would say the biggest discrepancy,
it feels like, is I don't know that many people
outside of who are watching like the Pacers fans and
analysts like Andrew Nemhart is so good, and so it
really is. On top of getting this version of Siakam
and Halburton, that's absolutely huge for the Pacers.
Speaker 2: But that's he also presents an issue in terms of
like his contract extension is going to kick in, so
if you want to say, look, let's not worry about it.
Let's see what happens in the summer where Miles Serner
is going to be a free agent, you might be
looking at, oh, like the payroll goes up because of Emhart.
That also means you might have to sacrifice a guy.
That's why I think there's a little bit of pressure
to might get something done now as to not go
into the season with an expiring contract.
Speaker 1: Well, we don't even go into the season with an
expiring contract.
Speaker 2: Because well well or well sorry not that's that probably
was bad wording for my point of view. I want
to optimize this team, like maybe for the now, because like,
if you lose Miles Turner this summer, then you are
going to get worse. You're looking at very few options
to make upgrades because of the androwdam Hearts contract extension
that's going to kick in. So maybe what I just
want to do before this trade deadline is optimize the
current situation to see how far you know, as you know,
they can go. And then I at least I can
look myself in the mirror if I'm the Pacers and
knowing going into the summer. Yeah, okay, we might lose Miles,
but we gave it a turn like we gave it,
we gave it a shot. We went in for player X,
like maybe that Cam Johnson or whoever, or Heywood, Heighsmith
that who is going to optimize us. I just I
don't think they can do nothing. It's kind of a
taway here.
Speaker 1: I would want them to do something. But with Miles
Turners specifically, so who is the threat to take him
in free? He's not taking mid level money right, and
so the Nets why are they signing Miles Turner? Then
after that, it's a bunch of if the Spurs could
get cap space if they do this, the Wizards might
be able to do it. If they do that. I
guess what you're saying is, shouldn't they then be I'm
actually this is what I'm thinking you're saying, So correct
me if I'm wrong. They should be more aggressive and
looking to get off Toppin's money so that it allows
that emboldens them more. Do I guess pay what it
takes to keep Turner?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of it. Like at consolidation trade, maybe
that's the better wording, Like I want them to consolidate
contracts if that means getting off the topping contract, like
just turning that into something else. And if the cost
of that is Matherine or Jaris Walker, I'm probably okay
with that.
Speaker 1: Who says no, if it's Mathriin and Obi Toppin for
Kyle Kuzma, is it the pacers?
Speaker 2: At this point, that's actually interesting. So Kyle kusmaan Pascal Siakam?
Is there not quite a bit overlapped there?
Speaker 1: There's a ton of overlap. I actually would be interesting
what Kyle Kuzma looks like tosively on this team though,
And now that I'm saying it, if I'm talking about that,
like it just stay away. Like if I'm trying to
like get the like, oh Kyle like defensive utility to
this team, if that's the primary reason to get him,
I do I think he can be more plug and
play on a good team.
Speaker 2: No, I think so too. And again I'm looking at
this with the offensive perspective, So I love that you're
taking the defensive approach. Kyle Kusmom could be fun if
he's like pluck and play ish and he'll just say, okay,
look I'll take the three. I'll lock down the three.
That's that's my position, and I'm just gonna take open threes.
Speaker 1: And I will say even I would prefer Cam Johnson
to him, but I just would. I would be fairly
surprised if the Nets did math in and top in
for for Cam Johnson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't how teams look at at Mathrin though,
like you and I are probably a little lower on
him than a lot of people. I would imagine.
Speaker 1: Probably Grant's even lower than I think the two of us.
There's just yeah, I actually think if you gave him
more of a central role to the offense, I don't
know if he's gonna have the level of playmaking to
do it, but you need a team that doesn't need
him to get off the ball or make decisions as
quickly as the Pacers. And I say that even like
he's probably been better defensively and as a rebounder this
year than I ever expected from him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yet I'm still not sold with three years
in and well two and a half, and I'm I'm
I'm also.
Speaker 1: This is so these are decisions you're willing to make
me because I guess my moral of the stories, like
the Pacers, after kind of looking like they were like
their window might have been ephemeral. They're back and they're good.
I guess I'm more willing to kind of let it
ride the way it is than you are. Is where
we're kind of different.
Speaker 2: Because no, no, no, I'm not wired that way in I'm
willing to make trades. I'm willing to tinker.
Speaker 1: I guess I feel like I'm looking at this too
closely as like, what are the Pacers actually gonna do?
Rather than what they should do? It's probably what's going on.
Speaker 2: I think that that is definitely our distinction here. Yes,
I'm very much looking at it what they what they
should do if they look But you might also be
right like hell again, assuming and we're knocking on wood
for the third time in this podcast, that tires Taliburton
is perfectly fine. And if he keeps up this level
of you know, twenty five eleven, twenty five to twelve,
whatever it is, like, if he just keeps playing that
brain of basketball, I honestly don't care if they make
that big trade because I think he is such a
potent offensive system enough itself.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, that sounds a good time to move
on to this next team, which is speaking of teams
that are very difficult to figure out. That'd be the
Miami Heat. Who uh, maybe when you listen to this,
Jimmy Butler will either not be on the team or
will be back with the team. Who who? That knows more.
How do you feeling about this team, which, mind you,
despite everything is above five hundred.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, we have to talk about their their situation, right,
not just the Jimmy Butler situation, but they have to
make the playoffs, like because again that draft pick is
going to the twenty twenty six draft pick is going
to okay, see unprotected. If they don't, that is a
major thing. So whatever they get back for Jimmy Butler
has to make sense. It has to be a competitive
return in whatever capacity. Does that mean that they should
just stick with him and risk losing him? That I
would lean towards either or like the one thing you
can't do, And this seems very counterintuitive when you usually
trade guys, especially guys with the caliber of Jimmy Butler.
I would not take a rebuilding package like for for
Jimmy Butler at this point because of the pick situation
that they're in, because I could I suspect they could
be really really bad next year. And then they relinquish
some high ass draft pick to the thunder. I mean,
good luck, right exactly, but but like the Thunder especially,
could you imagine could you just imagine the Thunder, like
perhaps after winning a championship this season, then next year
is like, oh, okay, we're gonna get like a top
three draft pick, like god damn it, that will be.
That's that's almost unfair. So it like they have to
think about self reservation here, and I think that is
all about making the playoffs. Like I and again, what
just it felt wrong coming out of my mouth saying
do not accept rebuilding package because I do think that
they're sort of there. I wouldn't even close the door
on a Bam trade, not now, but in the offseason,
like if there are to like fully blow it up.
But this year they just can't. They have to ride
the wave. They have to try to win every possible game.
That's also why I'm kind of weirded out that they
suspended Jimmy, Like I understand the thought process behind it,
but like I know he's upset. I know this and that,
but like at least you know what they are too,
But like I know, I know the situation I'm just saying,
if you want to win games and try to avoid
the bad thing happening, you probably need to have the
best team on the floor.
Speaker 1: So it's because you could probably start saying, but I
think if they just hold on to him, do you
think that he'll be a compliant enough campber for them
to make that at least hold the serve where they
currently they're no strangers to get into the playoffs through
the plan, and he at that point could view it
as he's trying to play to create a market in
the summer in the sense of the Nets. I mean,
maybe they would sign him, but like there you can't
count on that where it's, oh a team will dump
salary or give the heat stuff to set up an
opt in in trade or something or a sign in trade,
like because I've kind of just considered, oh, they can't
keep him. But because of when granted were talking about
the draft picks situation last week or whatever it was, right,
I don't know that they're because look, Tyler Hero has
been great this year, changing his shot profile, driving a
lot of the offense. Their offense is still in the
thirty third percent tile when he plays without Jimmy Butler,
and when Jimmy Butler's on the court and Jimmy Butler's beenyway,
Jimmy Butler's been all over the place on offense this year,
and this just shows you. I think, look, he's older,
he's thirty five. We've got and there's like sort of
the two games tattooed to memory before his suspension, Like
they're in the eighty ninth percentile offense with Jimmy Butler's
on the court and they're winning minutes by five point
one points per one hundred session when he's on the court,
and so can unders.
Speaker 2: That's that's something we have to remember in all of this. Yes,
so it's just what.
Speaker 1: Do they do here? Then? Is it? Because I'm trying
to even think of the teams that would be involved
in the mix that could give them a package that
could skew, if not win now, like win laterally, Like
does that make Beal then a more palatable option when
you're dealing with Phoenix, especially if the Suns can go
around and say, hey, we're gonna get someone to give
us a first round pick for Ryan Dunn, and we
will give you two first round picks plus Bradley Beal
for Jimmy Butler because we're top, I really do. What's
happening in Phoenix is not Bradleey Balle's fault. I don't
know who needs to hear this, but it's not specifically
Bradley Beal's fault. If you put Bradley Beal on the Heat,
I mean, I don't know what becomes with them defensively
if you have to play him and Tyler hero together,
but him in a bigger role that like, does that
give you enough juice to like kind of maintain where
you are or is that not really doing it? Because look,
the reason to not trade for Bradley Beal to me
is the no trade clause. There's two years left on
his deal. It's too much money, but it's two years,
so after a season he becomes this massive expiring chip.
But it's the fact that he has control over where
he's going that's a that's not a small thing. I
want to make that clear. But I'm looking at as
the Heat where it's just you're kind of stuck in
stasis for the next two years anyway, because you don't
want to send me like even okay, let's say they
convey this year's pick like you still owe a lottery
protected pick in twenty twenty seven. You want to be
kind of good then, because if you don't convey it,
it does become unprotected in twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 2: Still, I see your Bradley Beal scenario and I race
you a challenge trade of Jimmy Butler for Ceclovin.
Speaker 1: The Bulls want to put Jimmy Butler on the.
Speaker 2: Look, it's the Chicago Bulls. It's a former bull that
comes home. You already have the tack line. You know ready,
Look who's back the number twenty one jersey? You know
this is The Bulls are a PR team. They're not
a basketball team. All about PR. That's that's who they are.
Speaker 1: So I'll say this, we could get into a bunch
of different scenarios. I really don't see one where they
heat moved Jimmy Butler and are even remotely as dangerous
as they might be with him. And do you think that,
given the nature of the free agency market, the lack
of space out there, that they could even themselves think
he's not He's not going to check out on the
court completely. Maybe I'm just wrong here, but I'm maybe
they view it this way he's not going to check
out on the court completely, and they'll figure it out
over the summer in hopes of conveying this pick, and
maybe he opts in and they move him that way,
or it's a sign in trade. I am I wrong
to think that that's becoming increasingly likely if the heat.
If they don't care about these pick protections, then it's
a whole different conversation. But you have to care about
these pick protections.
Speaker 2: Oh, of course you do, and that's why I think
they're being cautious as they should be. I would be.
I would be surprised if they took that approach because
I think it's risky, and I don't necessarily think pat
Riley is in that mindset. I do think Levine is
just to wrap up that one is at least a
guy who gets you into like his type of vicinity
of being more dangerous. Not that he gives you like
the all around precess of Jimmy, obviously he doesn't. But
at least you're getting a significant talent in return who
can help you maintain that uh that draft or not
may well put to get you into like the playoffs,
So you make sure to not relinquish and unprotected, and again.
Speaker 1: That is my hi here. You know, you would just
be perpetuating the zach Lavine narrative by doing that, though,
because he's not gonna be on a team that's mediocre
and everyone's gonna blame him for it.
Speaker 2: That'd be bad. Well, you know what he does have, Bam.
He's never had, you know, a center that's that good
defensively or that good of a playmaker as well. I
want to see that.
Speaker 1: That's also what's tough about this team, though, is as
good as Bam is or might be, you still can't
use him as your just offensive folk rum and expect
to win minutes against really good lineups.
Speaker 2: And it's probably where I'm at that point where with
the heat, I just want him to win this year
as to avoid relinquishing that draftic and then they can
sort of load it just piece since the summer. I'm
fine with that, But again, then the other draft pick
scenario comes in return. This team is just in so
much trouble.
Speaker 1: They also might look, I mean, and this would probably
lend more merit to your stance. They might just look
at the way that Jim Hawkis Junior has been playing lately.
He's been like really good, Like teams really seem to
just kind of figure out what he was trying to
do offensively, and it's like, oh, he's gonna make threes now,
and like they're getting good minutes from Hayward high Smith.
Tyler Hero has just been really great this season. Terry Rosier.
That is gonna go down as unless there's a big
turnaround here. I don't even know why they're playing him
at this point. That's how bad that he's been for them.
So I do agree with you that they're in trouble,
but they might look upon themselves and say, like we
just need that. Maybe it's breaking up Jimmy Butler to
a couple of small That's why come back to Sacra
right now, where if like the bones of it were
Demarta Rosenman, Kevin Herd her I mentioned this now three
or four times. King Fan seemhem me against it, and
I understand why, But I also don't aside from Beale
and aside from just the Kings in theory who by
the way, the Kings are playing really well under Doug
Christi for the most part, they might not be looking
to shake things up to that degree. Hitting the play
on hit the play key on Alice Button works.
Speaker 2: Who knew?
Speaker 1: But like, what is the other team? You mentioned Zach Lvine?
But like that feels like, well, then now there's going
to be a third team in there, Like is Bradley
Beal somehow going to Chicago? I just don't see Jimmy
Butler going back to the Bulls. There's not a lot
of team.
Speaker 2: Reason just to have a choice. If he's traded, he's traded,
the Bulls would probably do it because then here's the thing.
If he leaves in the summer, the Bulls were just
off the Levine deal, then it just shortened everything and
they save money.
Speaker 1: Look, but is that that might be the most realistic scenario?
Like who's more likely? Because we know the Sons would
make that deal, But it becomes the Heat more likely
to take on Beale or the Heat more likely to
take on zach Lvine. He's younger and better and moral.
He also doesn't have no trade class. That's like, right,
that's that.
Speaker 2: Factors in absolutely, But like, look, if if that's a
deal that's on the table, I'm not saying it is.
That's just me coming up with nonsense.
Speaker 1: But would you do with it? As a you know
he's going to be a rental for the most part. No, No,
I was gonna say, like the Pistons have fourteen million
dollars in cap space, Like if it's Tim Hardaway Junior,
your cap space, what are we at there? Like twenty
nine million? And then would you give up? Like would
Heat take to Bias Harris? Like do you just do that?
Just see see what happens?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that is that is dreadful.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: I would not I would not do that. I would
not do that, like again, to see what happens. Bit,
Like you know, that's it's funny because you and I
sometimes you'll you'll attack a team, you know, just kind
of safeguarding yourself a whole bit, and sometimes she would
just go balls to the walls. And we often like
take different approaches because I'll do the same things on
certain teams, like for the Heat specifically, because of this
draft pick situation, I'm like the most cautious dude. I'm
being the most cautious that I can ever be because
I don't want to go into this trade deadline move
Jimmy for something that might be trash and end up
having to fork over an unprotected pick.
Speaker 1: And we would be saving the business of the ability
to save you money right now, so you're cutting your
tax bill. Timortowa Junior comes off the books. Tobias Harris
has only a year left in about roughly half. Jimmy Butler, do.
Speaker 2: They help you right now? Which is the question? No? Right?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, like I know, but that's what I
don't understand. I don't I would say if the Heat
wind up trading Jimmy Butler, I would be shocked if
they convey their pick this year.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just think Jimmy and Tobias Harris on
the same team, because then they're gonna have that inevitable
discussion of when Jimmy of when Jimmy told the Sixers
you chose Tobias Harris over me. I need that. I
need all the drama.
Speaker 1: By the way, the Pistons could do that if they
were willing to. Knowing again that if you think, if
you view Jimmy Butler as a rental, if you just said, hey,
here's Isaiah Stewart and Tim Hardaway Junior, that works, you
could just I mean, I don't know what you're doing
your big man rotation. At that point, are you signing
someone off the scrap heap and Jimmy like he bite
compromise your space. And when we're talking about with Jay
and Ivy out especially like imagine Jimmy but Jimmy Butler
works alongside Kid and then imagine Jimmy Butler in the
non KD minutes. Yeah, if they ever play a sar
Thompson and Jimmy Butler together, good luck.
Speaker 2: How many practices until he makes Jalen during cry.
Speaker 1: Well probably halfway through the first one con turn there
is you don't want to like derail development or vibes
just for like, oh we have it, Like what is Jimmy?
Is he going to be a happy camper if he's there?
I mean maybe he would be, because you don't want to, like,
you don't want to become the James Harden where's there's
only one team that's willing to pay you type deal.
So I mean, if I were the Pistons, if it's
Tobias Harrison, Tim Mardway Junior, I just do it. I
understand why the heat would nefit's Isaiah Stewart and Tim
Mardway Junior. And on the Pistons, Yeah, maybe they're seconds involved.
I might have to think about it. You can probably
still talk me just but I this is where I'm
at with the heat is. I'm having a tough time
evaluating them because I'm so impressed by some of the
things they've done, even by the way that jim Hawkas
has been playing, I just don't see that. Like, I
don't know what the return is on a Jimmy Butler trader,
even if you told him to take his ball and
go home and just not be with the team for
the rest of the year. I'm almost warming up to
the idea that if you want the pick to convey,
you might just need to ride this out.
Speaker 2: Look. And again, this goes back to your point, like
if you you were asking, could there be a scenario
were in Jimmy just kind of accepts, all right, look,
let's just wait it out until yes summer, if that happens,
I fully agree with you. Like, if Jimmy and Pat
just has this Kumbaya moment for like just too great
to play nice for the next six months, sure that
be the best possible solution for all parties involved. Does
Jimmy Butler, despite being forty five hat level, have that
level of maturity? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I just don't even know what some
people suggested, like could Denver do it? And like that's
all sorts of complicated because right like, even if they're
gonna include a conditional twenty thirty one pick, the Heat
are gonna have to take on Zeke Najy and then
it's Michael Porter juniors because Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon
can't be traded. And if you're looking at a Heat
team with I'm just again you have to go through
more specific framework. But if you're the Heat, and maybe
you could even get like a Julian Strowther out of that,
I don't think they're gonna include Peyton Watson or Christian
Brown for Jimmy Butler. I'd be pretty shocked.
Speaker 2: Man. I'm not even that high on the Trader two.
I feel like you and I we are we're evaluating
Jimmy differently. I like, I just think there's so many
things going against him right now that I, like Julian,
I wouldn't even consider adding Julian Strawther. I'm I have
a hard time Mehan.
Speaker 1: You were relinquishing first sum, You're sitting here then telling
that they shouldn't accept all these packages for him. So
isn't the moral of the story then that they should
just keep him and figure this out over the summer.
I mean, I think we wind up moving him, to
be clear, but I agree that there's trade value. I
probably maybe I higher on his value or I don't
think he has a ton of leverage. But I think
Jimmy Butler still an All NBA caliber player, even though
I wouldn't put him on an All NBA team this
season for some obvious reasons. But then, like, what deal
were the Heat? If his values at an all time
low and you're trying to get a return that could
keep you in the playoff hunt, what is the return then?
Speaker 2: So the one I came up with when I wrote
my article over at Yahoo, I'm gonna spoil it. God,
damn it, damn that was quick on it That you
your jim That was Jimmy Alec Burks for Keldon Johnson,
Sat Collins and trade Jones.
Speaker 1: Why are the Heat doing that?
Speaker 2: Look, I'm I'm again, I'm I wrote this exclusively off
the prism of we want to preserve, you know, our
flexibility in terms of the draft pick Kelton, Johnson, Sack Collins,
trade Jones at least keeps you somewhat somewhat competitive. And look,
like I also outlined in the piece, if there are
better offers out there, for sure, go grab it. But
look at all the factors that are playing against the
Heat here in this one. Jimmy's age first and foremost
the secondarily, you know all the circus around him. Yet again,
that is going to turn a lot of teams off.
The fact that you don't really know if he's a
rental or not because of the player option. So like,
his trade value is not, in my opinion, where it
would have been without all of those items. Could the
Heat get better than the trade that I suggested? Maybe?
Maybe not. Again, whenever we talk about Jimmy in a
broader sense, everything we read is Jimmy Butler's value is
not particularly high. That has come from several sources over
the course of several days even weeks now, And so
I'm trying to gage it in a way where Okay,
if like let's say the Heat get Sack Collins, Kelton Johnson,
Trey Jones, right, I think I guess if.
Speaker 1: You replaced the Terry Rozier minutes with Trey Jones minutes.
Speaker 2: And Kelton is still like Kelton's contract. Like I know,
Kelton is fine, he's just he's fine, But like he's
still he's better than his contract. You can flip that,
you can even rehab his value. He might actually even
benefit from going to Miami. I think they're a little
bit more physically driven than the spursars. I think his
playing style would work there more than he does in
San Antonio. Sack Collins is better than what he's played
this year. Like he's he's just been a sacrificial lamb
for the Spurs, finally realizing, oh yeah, Wemby is the
center and he should not play with the center. So
Sack Collins has been playing mob up duty and then
when he comes in it's he's obviously not Wempy and
that that contrast is pretty stark. He's a good player.
I actually like Sack Collins. I think if a team
trades swore him under the radar, he could have a
research in elsewhere. Like again, there are a lot of
ifs here, and I fully concede that for Heat fans
that are like, oh my god, I'm gonna revisit my
lunch on this one. Fair, that's totally fair. But what
deals are realistically out there. Like again, if the sec
Lavian deals, yeah, I go that one too, Like obviously,
I go for the higher upside, the higher production level.
I just have no freaking clue as to what is
legitimately available for Junu Butler out there, right.
Speaker 1: And I don't disagree with you on that. I'n't even
saying that trade is bad, knowing what we know about
Jimmy Butler, his lack of leverage, I just don't if
we're looking at everything through ken they convey this pick.
You've yet to outlay an altern I don't all the
ones you mentioned. I think probably Zach Levine would give
them the best chance of like let but I also
liked the appeal of you did this with the Spurs trade.
If you dealt with the Kings, maybe they like Demart
Rosen and Kevin Herder turning Jimmy Butler in like two
or three rotation players. There's appeal there. I mean, is
there something to be done with if they were willing
to take on it have to be like a mega trade.
But you take on I guess the extra year of CJ.
McCollum and then trade brandon Ingram as well. Is there
something to just like this New Orleans say, or we're
getting off of CJ. Mccoums money, let's bring to me
but here for the but then you're ruining your tank
that you becuse Jimmy Butler's gonna help you win games.
So that's probably not the way to go.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I see though it's the Pelicans and
they're they're grotesquely bad. Like does he that they does
he even have time to turn that ship around?
Speaker 1: No, there's no like the Pelican season is over, it's
right exactly, And so you don't want to put yourself
in bulls territory where you're not like they're they're eight
and thirty two as we record this, and so they
are how many losses outside of a playing spot. Let's
even see there are thirteen losses outside the play in tournament.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's done. It's done.
Speaker 1: So if they were thinking, if he was willing to
go there and get paid, that might be somewhat interesting.
Speaker 2: But I don't. But but I think to your point,
I would agree with you that the best alternative here
is to have a Jimmy Butler pat Riley make up
session where they just kind of say, okay for the
rest of the season. Let's just play nicies that you're
absolutely because but is the best talent outgoing talent in
any of these traits. He just is. So if the
Heat want to avoid the draft picks scenario, yes, that
would be the primary one.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about another team, the Philadelphia seventy six ers,
who many did not peg as the fringe playoff team.
We also talked about them with the Contenders. I don't
what are we supposed to say here other than do
you still view them? As as we're recording this, they
are outside of the play to the eleventh plays in
the East. Now again, that also just means that their
four losses out of a home court advantage spot, they
have decidedly won the minutes that the Big three have played.
Paul George is playing better of late, but the Big
three have played four hundred and four possessions together. Mort
they are also just a barely net positive. This is
per PBP stats. When they have two of their Big
three on the court through outscoring opponents by like point
three to two points per one hundred posessions during their
two star lineups. So any sort of at least two
of their stars, that's so that's including a big three minutes.
You've gotten some better shooting performances of late from some
including Paul George, who is still I think he's at
like sub thirty two percent on open and wide semi
open and wide open threes for the season, but he's
still like I think he's shown some shock creation juice.
The defense has been pretty good this year. They're even
above average when going up against top ten offenses. The
Sixers to me, are just all over the place. They
have trade assets, they have outgoing money you can just
lean on. Well, Joel Embiid has to be healthier at
some point, right we know Jared McCain has now done
for the year. You've gotten a lot of like, You've
gotten a lot of run out of Gershan Yabuseli, who
has been again unplanned, your best most consistent backup big
or your best most available consistent big. In general, what
do we make of these Philadelphia seventy six ers more you.
Speaker 2: Mean the Philidel dep dep Leah seventy six ers.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a typo up there. What's up?
Speaker 2: I love it because that is so fitting. That is
the that is the perfect symptom of this season from
the Philadelphia seventy six ers that I have no faith
in this team whatsoever, like even if they like again,
I've reached that point, and I've said this on this
show as well. With Joan Embiide. I am at that
point with him where I just cannot rely on him
at any point anymore, especially in the playoffs. And that
is what they were built for playoffs success. That was
what they That was their whole spiel, that was their
whole thing. So I think it's so perfect and that
that there's a TYPEO in there because that is this
is the season from health, and that is this season
has been a typo for them. Paul George is only
going to get older, he is going to get less
effective as the ages because he's also been an injury
wreck for years and years and years. Tyrese Maxi felt
the struggle of being, you know, the number one guy.
He went down as well because he was just overburdened,
over attaxed, whatever, And that is probably going to be
a symptom as well moving forward. If guys aren't going
to step up. Jared McCain is out for the rest
of the year, that's not great. I mean, I'm not
afraid of this team, regardless of whoever. I like every
team we talked about today. If if I'm leading one
of those teams, I'm looking at Philly and like, no,
not worry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that you would say you don't think
they could be the most dangerous of the East fringe
playoff teams, this is a pretty big indictment, Yes, because
they should be. I mean, first of all, they shouldn't
want them to be a fringe playoff team based off
what they You know, you sign Paul George, you extend
Joelle embiid, You've Tyres Maxi his money, Jared McCain being
a nice fine I is there is there any way
you would feel better about this team? And so I
think you're looking at it and you could say, I
think you've gotten like better offensive performances than you were
getting from Kayla Martin to start the year. Caleybridge has
been a little all over the place, but you still
know what you have in him, Like, is there anything
you It just it's always gonna come back to the health.
But so if you're them, do you look at these
assets that you've stockpiled and you have some tradable salaries,
are you now less likely to make any sort of
move because of I mean, we had the longer term
picture was always gonna be fuzzy with them, but now
the short term picture is muddied.
Speaker 2: Well. I mean, look, I think they have one or
two ways to go here. One they can just realize,
oh my god, this did not work. We have to
start over from scratch and that's it. Or they can
double down and say, look, let's add to our current pieces,
let's keep buying, and that would be probably the most
logical approach, because you want to maintain Joel Empiide in
a Philadelphia seventy six ers uniform, like, let's be real,
that's that's probably one of your main preogatives. You want
to keep Tyry's Maxie around. You want to, I guess,
keep Paul georyce around, at least for now, because what
kind of value do you get if you shop him.
You're not going to get a player better than him,
especially at that salary.
Speaker 1: I thought about it, Paul George for Jimmy Butler figure
it out like the rest of the framework, challenge trade.
But I don't know why Miami would want to take
on the point deal but not pay Jimmy Butler over
a shorter term.
Speaker 2: So is Paul George argubly like, what did where does
that rank in terms of like contract quality around the league?
Do you think?
Speaker 1: Not high?
Speaker 2: Probably still right?
Speaker 1: I probably trust him? Do you trust him more than
Jamal Murray contract that'll kick in after this year?
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that is so depressing because I actually agree
that there's like that's a conversation, that's a real conversation
Jamal Murray Man, that's oh, I really side note, I
really hope to see him get back to form, like
I know he's played better of late. But yeah, because again,
Paul George, I think his contract is right up there
among some of the worst. I don't think that's gonna
be easy to pivot off off any way, shape or form.
And if it's not, that sort of kind of negates
the whole. Hey, let's take an approach of rebuilding starting over.
I know our our mutual good friend Brian, he's been
in my tms as well all the time, Like, maybe
they'll maybe they'll get a good trade for for PG
before the trend headline good luck buddy.
Speaker 1: A team where and would they take Bradley Beal back?
Would the Sons considered doing that. They probably would, I
mean the Sons anyway, I don't know. I don't know
if the Sixers would be. Okay, Bradley be on a
no trade clause, but we only have them for two
more years, only to get out from the final year
of Paul George's deal. I guess you're getting the Sun's pick.
Do you think about it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'll think about that one at least because
I mean, yeah, it'd be a small backcourt, but I
don't even care because that could theoretically be so offensive ptent,
offensively potent, especially when you have Jared McCain coming back
from injury next year. So you run this three guard
lineup of McCain Maxy Beal. That's got some juice.
Speaker 1: I don't know. This team is all sorts of All
these teams are kind of I feel like we'll have
to get we have the one more team to talk
about quickly after this, But or do we Is this
the last one? Is this team number six?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is run the last one. Shout out to us.
But taking a two hour podcast talk about six teams,
they should be if we're just asking in a vacuum, right, Okay,
these teams get to the plan, which is what you're
talking about. For a lot of them, I don't even
because the thing with Philly is we could sit here
and say all these things, maybe they don't make any move,
They just stan pat. If you just catch lightning in
a bottle for any of these teams, doesn't Philly by
default have the highest ceiling in the postseason. Then if
you catch where Paul George and Juell Andbiad are healthy,
if they just get to the play in, isn't that
somewhat terrifying?
Speaker 2: Or no, yes, of course, But like you're prefacing this
by saying lightning in a bottle, you're basically presenting a
Hollywood script like basically say, all right, we have to
do the impossible. Then, isn't an obvious You're sure it is,
But like, how likely is it for this team to
catch lightning in a bottle? I mean, honestly, that's the thing.
Like I also think I've just been beaten down by
history on this team. I think that's part of it,
like a very I'm very affected, biased, whatever you want
to call it in that regard, Like I just whenever
this team has looked good, they look ready we're looking
at them and going, oh, this might be the year
Big Phila goes down. Something else happens, like he breaks
his face for the sixty fifth time, Like something happens,
and unfortunately for MB it's almost always outside of his control,
so it's like it's really tough. Eventually, I think they're
gonna have that moment where they have to look to
themselves in the mirror and figure out, like, what the
hell is our project even at this point, Like what
are we trying to achieve? Is that moment now? Probably not,
but I wouldn't at least go and double down and
go in and make like a proactive move like the
building is good though, because I don't think that's like
doubling down. I think you're just sort of trading one
issue from not for another issue. But like you get
a guy in who can sort of mimic some of
that production, Like it's fine. I wonder when they'll read
they'll realize it's time to hit the big red recent button.
I wonder when that time is.
Speaker 1: I'd be shocked if it comes before the twenty offseason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one more year, that feels kind of right. Yeah,
So of all.
Speaker 1: These teams we talk about Atlanta, we talked about talked
about Chicago, Detroit, Miami, Philadelphia. What is the team I missed?
What's the what's the one that I'm forgetting? Oh, Indiana?
Of all those teams, who do you views the most
dangerous this season? And it could be I'm not even
saying like maybe should be the most like if some
of these teams make change, I think most of them,
with the exception of the Bulls, you could make a
case that they have an incentive to be buyers at
the trade deadline, or at least opportunistic buyers right at
the trade deadline. What do you view as just you know,
one of these teams that we mentioned is gonna finish
in the top six.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, look, it depends on what they do,
right if if we.
Speaker 1: Just well you have to balance all that with the
motivation and the likelihood with the how good they currently
I would you like my answer?
Speaker 2: I would because I think I think we're going to
go in different directions.
Speaker 1: This is and it's coming about. I think was a
month after I said I was out on them, or
maybe I think it was before December I said it.
I think it's Indiana.
Speaker 2: Ah, we're okay. Same, I think they.
Speaker 1: Could do nothing. If you told me these all these
teams do nothing, So even the Heat still have Jimmy Butler,
I will feel the most confident in the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So if you say that all these teams or some
of these teams will do something, I think you can
make the case that even if the Pacers do nothing,
you still feel better about them than the teams that
do something, because what is the scale of a move
that Miami or Detroit or Chicago specifically is gonna make.
Even Atlanta, some of those teams are gonna One of
those teams is probably gonna sell. I think the other
of those teams, Detroit and Atlanta will probably play conservatively,
it seems of all, honestly, it seems of all these
teams the most likely to try and take a swing
would be Philly because they might view it as a necessity.
But if you told me Indiana did something, I think
they need to do the smallest level of something for
you to feel exponentially better about their team than you
do right now. Whereas I don't even know. Maybe Detroit
comes a second, because with philliates because it always is
going to come back to embiid you can't do anything.
I don't think that is just gonna make you feel
not measurably, but exponentially to use that word again, to
feel just world's better about their present season chances of
making noise in the Eastern Coup, because no matter who
they get within reason right, it's still gonna come down
to how healthy, how healthy is Joel Embid specifically, and
what does healthy Joel and Beiard look like.
Speaker 2: So I agree with the Pacers. I will say this,
if if Miyami has that Kumbaya moment between Jimmy and Pat,
if that's the thing, if that they just put aside
their differences, they go in Jimmy Butler place, you know,
the best version of Jimmy Butler basketball for the next
half season. I think they leave rock Detroit. I think
they're above Detroit because I do think motivated Jimmy Butler
and with Bam there as good as he is, Tyler
hero like that trio is just a little too enticing
for me to go with Detroit over Miami.
Speaker 1: I would agree with you too, And I think also
Detroit has one of the five toughest schedules remaining three
matchups against the Calves, both of their matchups against the Thunder.
They only have to play the Celtics one more time
so that to vote in their favor. Whereas with Miami
and they're about middle of the road, they're seventeenth. I'm
looking at theirs now their strength of schedule, so I
mean they have Boston three times, the Knicks twice, the
Calves twice. That's that's a lot. But I think you
just I don't think that's spicy if you were getting
into the number. I think, honestly, what should be a
hot take it is not the fact that we're just like,
could Detroit do you feel better about that than the Sixers?
In theory, you shouldn't, because at some point we have
to gravitate towards just the top end outcomes of nothing happening,
and Philly still has that going for them. But man,
this is just this is like the lack of feel
group in the Eastern Conference, right, And I honestly probably
have the strongest feel for what I think Detroit and
Atlanta are and that's just a weird thing to say.
Speaker 2: I will say this though, with the Pistons. One of
the reasons that I hesitate is Also, they won thirty
percent of all their wins in the past fourteen days
on the season, So you know, I don't want to
say we're crowning them too quickly, but I do think
we're sipping the kool aid. That's fine, we should all
sip the kool aid once in a while. But it's
it's been fourteen days of this caliber of play. I
want to say, that's a sample size that's still just
smtch too small for me to get like fully excited.
Speaker 1: I mean, push comes to shove. They're probably fourth in
my who would I If I'm ranking these teams in
terms of being immediate threats this season, I would have Indiana.
I'm probably gonna put Philly to to be honest with you,
because the Philly Butler thing with Miami. I'll probably put
them three. But I don't think either of us conmit
myself that you're gonna trade Jimmy Butler and be even
comparatively off. But if you keep Jimmy Butler, there's a
chance that you could maybe be really good, and then
I'd probably put I don't know when I put the
Hawks ahead of the Pistons, Like there's I think the
Pistons feel like they've carved out more of an enviable
path than they had before and it's bolstered by Okay,
they're competent, and maybe we're overrating the competence, but that's
like for them, it's not about this season for them
in Chicago more than any other team. Whether Chicago feels
that way or not, it's a different story. But for
them even more than any other team, because they have
their primary building block in place, it's not about this season.
And so if we were ranking futures, I mean pro
maybe Indiana could be in front of Detroit. Put Detroit's
at the top of this, maybe Atlanta's there, Like that's
a different discussion. So in terms of immedia, I think
I'm going Pacers Sixers. Honestly, I'm going Pacers Sixers, Hawks, Pistons,
heat pulls the heat or just they're in such a
weird position that even if you keep Jimmy Butler, which
might be the better here and now route to go down,
is it gonna because I don't know what Jimmy Butler
is like gonna do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think I have a ranking, but you
and I do agree on the first and the last
one shout out to Chicago, shout out to the pulls,
or at least being consistent no, and again this you
know what? Like this exercise also underlines just how excited
I am for the second half of the season through
the perspective of the Eastern Conference, because like, we have
no idea what's gonna happen here. It's such a weird
conference to get smart about. I don't think there are
any breadcrumbs that is selling us what's gonna happen. This
is just a complete wild wild West, and it's only
going to get even wilder by a trade that line.
So it's I'm very much looking forward to seeing you
know which team because someone will break off of this
group and just shove our words right back down our throats.
That's gonna happen. It's just going to be a question for.
Speaker 1: Mort unless you have anything else to add. Are you
able to tell our listeners and viewers where they can
find you and all the fantastic work that you do.
Speaker 2: Yes, So I am at Blue Sky at MSJ, NBA
dot BSKY dot social. I think it's like the the
you are.
Speaker 1: To touch that on Blue Sky. I'll just it's still
MSJA NBA.
Speaker 2: Right, MSJA, NBA Okay, cool, yeah yeah on Blue Skuy.
I'm not really over at the bad place anymore because
I don't think it's fun. But yeah, you can find
my work over at Jahoo, over at Forbes that's Sports Illustrated,
specifically at Draft Digest. I do the NBA podcast usually
with you for the most part. Like you and I
are beg. We've begun dating quite a bit now, every
single month at least a couple of times, so that's fun.
Speaker 1: We're up to three times a month. Yeah, that's consistency.
Speaker 2: It's consistency. Yeah yeah, But please.
Speaker 1: Go follow more all the great work that he does
and shout out to anyone listening to this on the
NBA podcast feed as well. Moore does a ton of
terrific work there Until next time. And as always, I
speak for more when I say shout out to the one,
the only, the indelible, the one who can actually swing
the championship race when he invariably comes back to the
NBA this season, mister Frank Healing.
Speaker 2: Cue it