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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Ceko's I am Dan Favali coming

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at you with a very special guest. Is that time

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of the calendar where you're gonna be getting three four

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episodes in a week from mister mort Jensen and myself.

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He is of the NBA podcast, Fame, Yahoo Sports Fame,

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Forbes Fame. Where else are you famous? From your famous

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international fame that all the international listeners for you?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, you even you even forgot about

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sports sales creating because I am I am everywhere, I'm omnipresent. No,

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look that way too kind. That's always way too kind

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of an introduction. Dan, How are you, sir? That's the

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most important thing. How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm caffeinating, that's soundm doing so. I'm doing spectacular as

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I hold up three zero complaints on Maya and you

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undersell yourself as always, I can't. I don't know how

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people do. But I don't know how people do anything

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when they have for like families to be responsible for.

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I'm a terrible dog, dad slash husband. When you throw

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kids in the equations, I have all the respect in

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the world for people who balance work in that And

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then when you factor in the fucking time difference for

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you specifically, I think I got a bet on the

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East Coast. I like to tell Grant that all the time.

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So all the respect in the world for you, and

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you undersell yourself as always. You are amazing, and I'm

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excited to talk to you about Look Eastern Conference friends,

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playoff teams that will be who we think are the

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most dangerous. Spoiler alert, there'll be a Western Conference version

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of this coming out very very soon, but I thought

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it was. We talked about contenders Grant and I recently,

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and it's funny. One of the contenders is actually on

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our East fringe list. But the playoff races are fascinating,

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not just because they're you know, we're still dealing with

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the play and stuff, but the margins, Like, doesn't it

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feel to you when you're looking at the tippy top

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of the league there might just be three or four

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teams that belong on a Tier one and Tier two,

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and then there's just like this massive ass cluster throughout

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the rest of the league. Even if you want to

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tear it, there might just be like two then separate

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tiers from there where so much, so many different things

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could happen and look that the West, I think is

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normally associated with that discussion, but you're looking at the East,

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and as we record this, it's just like, Okay, what

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separates the magic who are the four seed from the

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sixers who are currently outside the play and it's it's

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four losses. That's not a lot at all.

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Speaker 2: Now. I feel this week every single year, honestly, And

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this is probably where the Plane Tournament has come in

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and had an effect, right because now you're looking at

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the lower ends of the standings. You're not just looking

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one through eight, you're looking one through ten, and so

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you're automatically in your head like searing it differently. Like

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I was probably a little bit of a skeptic initially,

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like I was excited, but I was also like in

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the back of my mind, like is this going to work?

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Is this going to be a thing? But we've already

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seen like it hasn't been going on for that many years,

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Like what is this? Is this the fifth year with

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the plane somewhere along though Ryeah, right, like fourth or fifth,

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and we've already had a plan and seem like make

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the finals. We already had like another playing team make

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the conference finals in the Lakers I believe so like

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we were seeing the unpredictability of it all, and I

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think that's awesome. And it also makes it so much

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harder for me, honestly to like legitimately tier teams, because

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I always have this thing in the back of my

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mind going, oh, yeah, I might like this team, but

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they might get the their shit kidd kicked out of

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them by the Heat who are like tenth, Like I

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just I don't know, and I love the fact that

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they's so unpredictable. It turns out, Dan that that the

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NP is actually good. Did you know that.

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Speaker 1: Let's not get into that. They said, by the way,

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this is your this will be the playoff number six.

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That's wild, right, so already twenty one, twenty four, so yeah,

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this will be number six, not wild.

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Speaker 2: Time moves so fast, And oh, I will say this

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though the COVID years, it did feel like three seasons

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four slapped together, right Like, I don't. I don't even

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remember like the distinction of it. I don't. I can't

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like separate seasons from that time where someone who said,

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remember that game, I'm like, ah, that could have happened

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in three different seasons. I have no idea I.

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Speaker 1: Remember where I was and what I was doing when

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the league shut down, and then like the next thing,

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I actually remember that, Oh it was four years later

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and things, I'm good.

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Speaker 2: No, it's totally true. Like I remember Mark Cuban's reaction

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looking into his phone and then blank and suddenly like

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I wake up four years later.

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Speaker 1: Mort we begin alphabetically with your Atlanta Hawks. I'm just

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gonna sign them. I'm gonna sign every single team here

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for you. How are you feeling about these these Hawkys?

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Speaker 2: They're feisty. I've always loved that word, and sometimes I

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don't think it's being used the right way. But for

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this team, I think it's just perfect, like chef's kiss.

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This is a team where I was like, coming into

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the season, you know they the Spurs have their draft

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pick unprotected. I was like, oh, what what kind of

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direction are they going in? Are they going to lean

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vets instead of like youth movement? What are they gonna do?

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Turns out they decided, for the better or worse, that

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they're gonna have one foot in the each camp of

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those like they're they're developing Zachary Ruschet, They're still leaning

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in Andre Young, Jalen Johnson is probably, in my opinion,

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the best Hawk like right now. I think the way

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that he's playing is phenomenal, and I think there's room

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for growth there. Dyson Daniels coming out of nowhere. I

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don't want to say save their ass because I think

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that's a little too aggressive, but he just he gave

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them such a lift. The story to me, though, is

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DeAndre Hunter. Remember how everyone's like, oh, he's unverpaid. He's

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just like he's just a wing, and then this year

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he just taught It's.

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Speaker 1: Still out there. I hear him just banding about in

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trade rumors, just like, oh, if the Hawks want to

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get out of that contract, I'm like maybe a year ago, right,

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I'm like.

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Speaker 2: Uh right, no, no way, no way. Like look here,

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I don't remember if do you have to like reach

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a certain criteria with games played to win six man?

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It's it's so weird, like some awards or like the

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fifty sixty five games threshold and some are not. Is

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the sixth man included in that one of them? Is it?

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Speaker 1: I think it's the sixth man that might not included

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because m IP has definitely included. Otherwise, Jalen Johnson may

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have won it last year if the game's minimum.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, I want that. I want

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my roasters for that one because I call that before

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the preseason last year and Brian was like and then

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he was so close.

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Speaker 1: His two year old. Remember it is Brian being right though,

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because he didn't win, So suck for.

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Speaker 2: You that that that actually hurts, that literally and physically hurts.

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Uh No. So so even if DeAndrea Hunter like misses

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time later in the season knock on wood that he

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doesn't and it like falls below the sixty five game threshold,

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I would probably have him as as my as my

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six man this year. I mean, he's just been so phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: I think he fits that criteria too, like almost to

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a tee. Actually, I think a lot of people and

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sometimes I gravitate this is you want someone who comes

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off the bench but also may or definitely closes for

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their team. And so when you get to a Peyton Pritchard,

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who I think is there's a ton of candidate's deserving

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candidate DeAndre Hunter is going to check that box over

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a Peyton Pritchard or even a Nikail Alexander Walker in Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: YEP, totally agree, And so I think these Hawks have

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found something and look, this isn't important by any means,

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but I love the fact that they're entertaining to watch,

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like this could have been a season where you know,

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they were trying to figure themselves out and things just

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got like bocked down in details. They are out running,

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they're gunning, they're playing a fun brand of basketball. Like

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I've made them appointment viewing. I think they've really approached

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this the right way. The fact that they're basically saying, look,

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that's the lost cost of this. You know, the pick

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that's going to San Antonio. We're not just not going

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to focus on that. We're going to try to play

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our best ball and we're going to try to develop guys.

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I love it. Like where to put them in a

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playoff bracket though, that's that's probably why we're having this discussion,

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And I'm coming in here with virtually nothing's offer because

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I don't know the answer to that. I have no

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idea where to put them. There are five hundred teams

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as of recording, and that feels pretty like on brand

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when you watch the play but a five hundred team

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in the East can make a lot of noise.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with you and I've been a

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pretty i wouldn't say big, but strong advocate of they

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should see what they can add to this team as

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we look ahead to the deadline. Part because of those

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picks the buyers, well, I mean look at because as

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of right now they're the defense is I think it

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can be better for stretches than you would expect, but

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it's slipped again and they're dead last and opponent in

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three point of ten to eight percentage since December first.

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They are much better when their defense is set, but

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part of that is their offense has not really been

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good enough, Like there are lineups where it works, and

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a big part of that is I still think Trey

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Young is one of the best passers alive. I still

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think he's by far the best player on this team,

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but when he's not shooting at his usual clip from

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a bunch of different spots, and then you compound that

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with Bogdanovic's injuries and lack of availability, and then by

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extension that dearth of creation outside of Trey and Jalen Johnson.

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Right now, their dynamic is great together, and I think

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that Jalen Johnson is much better in a vacuum. He

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continues to just create for others a lot better. I

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think two years ago, eighteen months ago, I probably would

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have been this is someone who can only do that

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in the open floor, and it's no. He's continuing to

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do it more from dead stops. He's drawing two to

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the ball. It feels like more. He's even just you know,

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I think these past two years it proved that he's

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like one of the better lob passers.

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Speaker 2: In the League two.

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Speaker 1: But your offense is in the fifteenth percentile when Trey

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Young is off the floor, and when you look at

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just the teammates, there's not a lot of off or

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on ball gravity like relative to Trey Young. And then

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even just off ball, there's not a ton of gravity

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any like from Jalen Johnson, sure Bogdanovich, even though he

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hasn't been shooting as well this year. And so I

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look at them and they still feel like they epitomize mediocrity.

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But I feel like they're close to being something more

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that I'm not saying, hey, go throw all those picks

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and get Jimmy Butler, although I have been an advocate

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for them trying something like that. If they get to

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keep Dyson, Daniel Zachary resa Che. I also have to

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acknowledge though, what they're trying to do is plumb the

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depths of Dyson Daniels and Zachary resa Chet. But if

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you can go out and get maybe something that you

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think is going to upgrade your backup point guard rotation

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or just deliver more offensive gravity in the half court,

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that's probably the way to go. I think some people

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might point towards the front court as well, but at

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this point, I'm kind of like, just like the Capella

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come off the books and you have on Yaka, conglu

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and if you need Larry Nance Junior's matching salary or

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if you need Capella as matching salary, sure, but I

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think I kind of identify them as they could be

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a backup point guard or just a better tertiary offensive

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option away from just being in the top six mix

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more more firmly.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up on Yaka because I'm a

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big proponent of his I love him, and for a

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long while I was like, look, just turn him into

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the starting center. It's fine, Like give unleash him, give him,

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give him that nod. And John Hollander and I we

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we you know, we kid each other once in a

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while and we DM and he was like hmm hmmm.

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He was skeptical, and I was like every time when

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I had a good game, I would poke him and

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he would just tell me in a nice way. Mort

238
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have you even noticed the size has returned to the NBA?

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And it's like, that's a fair point. Like on Yek

240
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six' eight, Like he plays taller than he is. I'll

241
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give him that. He's super active, great rebounder, utterly elite

242
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at finishing around the basket too, But six ' eight.

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If these Hawks are gonna be a legitimate playoff team

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and try to go for something, maybe not this year,

245
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but next year, they're gonna need that size. Like I

246
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know you can offset some of the size with Risha

247
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Cha and Johnson at playing the forwards, but I do

248
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think you're gonna need a bigger center like in the middle.

249
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I do think you're gonna need someone. And he's like

250
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the perfect you know, third big two, like someone who

251
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comes in and play like twenty five to twenty eight

252
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minutes per game. It's an interesting it's an interesting dynamic.

253
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I want to say, I'm not sure I'm there with

254
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the Jimmy Butler at you though, like, if that feels

255
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a little too aggressive, Well.

256
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Speaker 1: If it's not going to cost like a ton of

257
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first round equity and it's let's get if it costs

258
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you one pick and they have the Lakers pick this year,

259
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they have the Kings pick that's protected through I think

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twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 2: Protected pick, I'm all in. That's fine.

262
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Speaker 1: I'll I mean even I it's the Lakers pick that's unprotected.

263
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But I guess the Lakers could be like, you wouldn't

264
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give up salaries plus that pick to get to Jimmy

265
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Butler while you're keeping you know, Diyson DWN.

266
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Speaker 2: You're you're asking the wrong guy. I just wrote an

267
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article over a Yahoo where I did have a Jimmy

268
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,840
Butler trade and like I more or less wrapped up

269
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that segment where I was like, look, if this team,

270
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I'm not going to say which team you can go

271
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in and click and find out wants to add you know,

272
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a second or two. That's fine, Just don't get into

273
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the first round equity stuff on this one.

274
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Speaker 1: But so I would ask you one, right, given let's

275
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say Bogdanovic is more available better for the rest of

276
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the year, do you think that what would you view

277
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as the bigger need. Then if you're thinking that they

278
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,519
might need because the way you're describing the Kungaru dynamic

279
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,519
would be well, they could use someone who's an upgrade

280
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from Capella. Then on the rotation, what do you view

281
00:13:20,039 --> 00:13:23,080
is more pressing if we assume better health availability and

282
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shop making from Bogdanovich?

283
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Speaker 2: No, I agree with you. Then if we're prioritizing needs,

284
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,919
I think you nailed it. I do think they need

285
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more creation. I love Trey as a creator Lord Jalen

286
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Johnson as a creator. Don't love Dyson Aniels as the creator,

287
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:37,639
at least not yet. It's still very very young. Same

288
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,039
ghost for Risha che. If those two take leaps in

289
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,360
coming years, oh my god, this team is going to

290
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,879
be very very exciting for a long time. But you're right,

291
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,919
as of right now, heading into the second half of

292
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this season twenty five, you're right there. They're probably one

293
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creator short. The question for me is, and I think

294
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I honestly think it's a good question, and should they

295
00:14:00,879 --> 00:14:02,519
be in a rush, should they be in a hurry,

296
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or should they just basically take this season at face

297
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,519
value and say, look, as long as we make the playoffs,

298
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,879
then the worst we can give the Spurs is like

299
00:14:10,919 --> 00:14:15,879
the fourteenth selection or sorry, the fifteenth right, and then

300
00:14:15,919 --> 00:14:17,960
our obligation to them for this year at least it

301
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,600
is over. Then we can go in and focus on,

302
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,399
you know, getting better for next year.

303
00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:24,039
Speaker 1: And I kind of look at it as I wonder

304
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,399
if they need a little nudge to ensure that they

305
00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:28,080
like because if they have to go in by virtue

306
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,639
of a plan, like I think you could make a

307
00:14:30,679 --> 00:14:32,200
case and we're going to talk about one of these

308
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,000
teams shortly that the six spots in the East just

309
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,120
might be kind of sewn up. When you look at

310
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,919
the Cavs, Celtics and Knicks, Magic, Pacers and Bucks, I

311
00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:42,519
don't know which team you're gonna view is the most

312
00:14:42,519 --> 00:14:47,240
fragile from that sort of cadra of teams. And so

313
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:48,759
with the Hawks, I'm kind of like, I'm not telling

314
00:14:48,799 --> 00:14:50,159
them they need to make a home run swing, but

315
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:52,399
if you could get I'm also wondering, like what type

316
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,720
of what level of creation do you want? Do you

317
00:14:54,759 --> 00:14:57,360
want more of justice half court pick and roll tactician

318
00:14:57,559 --> 00:15:00,480
or if you get someone who spaces the floor off

319
00:15:00,519 --> 00:15:01,879
the ball and do a little bit on the ball,

320
00:15:01,919 --> 00:15:03,919
maybe as a driver does that open things up for

321
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,600
Dyson Daniels as a playmaker more, because like the off

322
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,519
ball gravity on this team right now is a problem.

323
00:15:08,799 --> 00:15:11,120
The name I thought about it just feels a little

324
00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:13,200
too high end. If they're looking at kind of stratitude

325
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,559
to them, like con Sexted would be really good for

326
00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:19,039
this team. He's not like a copslock creator for others,

327
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,799
but he can get downhill. And if you're looking for

328
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,879
someone to kind of dot the arc around Jalen Johnson

329
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,639
and Dyson Daniels more, that would be something that could

330
00:15:27,679 --> 00:15:29,559
unlock younit to them. I just don't I'm not giving

331
00:15:29,639 --> 00:15:31,480
up a first round pick if I'm the Hawks for

332
00:15:31,559 --> 00:15:34,559
Colin Saxon. If I'm Utah, given this stash of picks

333
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,159
that I have, I probably I'm not giving up Colin

334
00:15:36,159 --> 00:15:38,120
Sexon unless I get a really good offer.

335
00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:42,039
Speaker 2: I like that idea of Colin. So I interviewed him

336
00:15:42,039 --> 00:15:43,440
a couple of years back, no more than a couple

337
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,519
of years, probably prior to the pandemic, honestly, and I

338
00:15:48,559 --> 00:15:51,279
was actually asking him about the point guard role, because

339
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,039
you know, I basically told him, like we all look

340
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:56,919
at you as a scorer, that is the role you've

341
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,559
been given and he was like, yeah, that is the

342
00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:01,320
role I've given because that's what I'm best at doing.

343
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,559
And then he started going through how he saw the floor,

344
00:16:04,759 --> 00:16:08,000
especially in transition, and like, there's a part of me

345
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,960
that once to explore that. I do think he's got

346
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,879
another level. I think teams have just kind of leaned

347
00:16:12,919 --> 00:16:15,440
into him as a score because that is by far

348
00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:18,639
his best skill. I would be down with that. Someone

349
00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:21,600
who could just get you buckets but also just get

350
00:16:21,639 --> 00:16:25,840
into an individual flow off the bench. I don't hate that.

351
00:16:25,919 --> 00:16:29,960
I think that's that's an interesting three guard rotation. At

352
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,480
the very least, it'll be small because Colin sex is

353
00:16:32,559 --> 00:16:36,279
like six or one. Yeah, yeah, like he's super small,

354
00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:39,399
so him and Trey would be you know, it'd be

355
00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:42,919
a small backcourt when they shared it. But then you look,

356
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,960
if you have researche and you have Jalen Johnson on

357
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,320
the floor, like the wing's kind offset it a little bit. Yeah,

358
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:48,759
And I.

359
00:16:48,679 --> 00:16:50,559
Speaker 1: Think at the end we can ask, like, which of

360
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,600
these teams do we think is like the closest right

361
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:54,519
now to being acreous. This season will be a good

362
00:16:54,519 --> 00:16:57,200
way to wrap that up, which means it's time more

363
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:02,240
to move on to your Chicago who should not be

364
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,440
in this discussion. I want to make that there's no

365
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,400
reason we should be talking about the Bulls through this

366
00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:09,720
lens in the middle of January. It angers me to

367
00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:12,119
my very core. And yet here we are.

368
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:17,279
Speaker 2: There's your Chicago Bulls. My god, I haven't podcaster with

369
00:17:17,279 --> 00:17:19,839
Brian for like half a year, and I thought I'd

370
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,240
finally gotten ridden of that, and then now you're there

371
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:26,839
just picking up that responsibility. No, it's not my Chicago Bulls, Stan,

372
00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:29,519
it hasn't been for a while. But I will say this,

373
00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:31,680
it's gonna sound like I'm a Bulls fan right now

374
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,319
because I woult to stand in front of the fire

375
00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:39,359
of Cyclobeine. Here people who are just constantly blaming him

376
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,839
for a B and C and oh, he's nothing but

377
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,200
a bad contract, he's this, this and that. Look, man,

378
00:17:46,519 --> 00:17:49,000
this guy is sporting a true shooting percentage in the

379
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,759
mid sixties. He's he's hitting forty five percent from three

380
00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:55,079
on over seven attempts per game. He's hitting like fifty

381
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,680
two percent from the field. He's ridiculously efficient, has been

382
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,480
for years. People love to point to last season when

383
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,279
he was injured, when he only played twenty five games

384
00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:05,519
and was like, oh, look see he can't stay on

385
00:18:05,559 --> 00:18:09,000
the floor, whereas before that it was perfectly reasonable. I

386
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,039
think he played like seventy three percent of games since then,

387
00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:15,640
which for the NBA standers nowadays, is totally fine. He

388
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,839
should not be viewed as some sort of toxic contract.

389
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,440
I think this is it's getting utterly ridiculous. You can't

390
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,559
tell me that this guy wouldn't help. I don't know

391
00:18:24,599 --> 00:18:28,119
that denmor Nuggets are someone else. Like, there are good

392
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,000
teams out there that would stand to benefit greatly from

393
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,400
trading for Saclovine, especially knowing that the Bulls, because of

394
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,640
these this last year and a half of trade rumors

395
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,599
and whatnot, they're not gonna get like a go bear

396
00:18:39,599 --> 00:18:41,720
package for him, not even close. Like you can get

397
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:44,799
him for pretty cheap, and like then people will say, well,

398
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,519
what about the contract, who cares if you win the trade,

399
00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:51,440
and like lopsidedly, So it's fine, Like, I'm not even

400
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,440
focusing on the Bulls right now. I'm just focusing on

401
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,200
Sacladine landing in a place where he gets a chance

402
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,480
to win, because I just think he's got He's been

403
00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:04,160
stuck on the league's most media team in potentially history,

404
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,960
and I feel bad for him, Like save Saclobine is

405
00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:08,000
kind of my monstraight here.

406
00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 1: He's been a monster and even in their most recent

407
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,880
game against the Kings that they lost, he was just

408
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,000
absolutely huge. And I think you could still question some

409
00:19:16,039 --> 00:19:18,160
of his decision making. Yeah, no, it feels like he's

410
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,759
ignoring teammates, but I don't necessarily blame him. I was like,

411
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,160
but like looking but this team specifically, Like I want

412
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,279
to talk about the actual Bulls. Zach Lavine's been great.

413
00:19:27,559 --> 00:19:30,079
Vouch is having the most efficient season of his career.

414
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,920
Still it's like he's cooled off a little bit. But

415
00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:35,759
like since December first, thirty eight percent from three on

416
00:19:35,839 --> 00:19:40,359
nearly five five attempts per game. I like, you have

417
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,200
we reached the point where based off what you would

418
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,160
get for these guys, because you're mentioned, I could make

419
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,440
the case too for is that I don't understand why

420
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,519
when it comes to Bradley Beal. I think if you

421
00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:52,880
put Bradley Beal on a different role and you can

422
00:19:53,279 --> 00:19:54,960
like have him do more things on the ball, run

423
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,599
more dhros with him, he'll actually be good. He won't

424
00:19:57,599 --> 00:19:59,720
be worth his contract and he'll be good. You don't

425
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,079
for him, even if it's a very low cost because

426
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,279
of the no trade clause. More than anything, it's a

427
00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:06,599
lot of money, and then he has power over when

428
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,559
and how he leaves. With someone like Zach Lviene, it's

429
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:12,880
sort of like, okay, like why why don't the Spurs

430
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,000
just copy together some contracts that they don't want and,

431
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,240
like Zach Collins, is just money they shouldn't have on

432
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,079
their books. That's you're almost halfway there at that point.

433
00:20:20,079 --> 00:20:21,400
So then you have to figure out the other money.

434
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 2: Did you listen to my Danish podcast that I recorded today?

435
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,440
Because that is funny. I actually brought up a cyclobne

436
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:28,200
suspurs star.

437
00:20:29,519 --> 00:20:31,680
Speaker 1: I did not listen to it, but I do. I

438
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,000
am fluent in uh in Danish. Yeah, yeah, so don't worry.

439
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,279
I'll rest of shortst to it.

440
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 2: Oh that's that's funny. I look, I'll I'll tell you

441
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,920
this though, you are sending the wrong guys to to

442
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,839
San Antonio, and I've been I've been talking about this

443
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,079
for I want to say six months or so. This

444
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,359
isn't This isn't the deal. The deal is Kobe White

445
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,000
and I to Sumu, well that we've actually you've talked

446
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,640
to We talked about that I have and I'm going

447
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,799
to reiterate myself here because that's a good one. I

448
00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:01,000
like that trade.

449
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you in a vacuum. But the

450
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,440
Bulls specifically, what do you make of this team, because

451
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,200
relative to what they're going to get back now for

452
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,119
zach Lavine or Avouch, you could almost understand why they

453
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,759
wouldn't like in theory, why are you trading Nikola Vucevic

454
00:21:16,519 --> 00:21:19,200
for a second round pick right in salary just to

455
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,000
get off the final year of his deal, assuming that

456
00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:23,480
you do end and this might be the bigger point

457
00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:26,119
to keep the pick that you order the San Antonio

458
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,599
Spurs that are top ten protected and right now they

459
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,960
might just barely keep that. It's sort of billowing in

460
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,400
the win. Do you view what this team is doing

461
00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:35,640
is one they don't need to make a trade to

462
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,480
ensure they keep that pick because they still kind of

463
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,240
have ah, well, shut down player X in their back pocket.

464
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,079
But is it also kind of a like an issue

465
00:21:43,079 --> 00:21:44,599
of all right, well, have you seen enough from the

466
00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:47,319
players they might want a round long term to say like, well,

467
00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:49,200
they can kind of juggle those two things, and that

468
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,400
you don't need to make some of these moves to

469
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,480
one better position yourself for the future, but maybe get

470
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,759
even more information than you already have. Off modest buzzellis

471
00:21:56,759 --> 00:21:59,319
whose role after being non existent now it'd say, it's

472
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:02,599
like moderate role for this team. Just where are you

473
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,759
sort of like at with the Bulls as currently constructed

474
00:22:05,799 --> 00:22:06,799
and their overall direction.

475
00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:10,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would not trust them to like, you know,

476
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,440
basically say, oh, we can always move guys in a

477
00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:16,000
line up later in the year to lose. I wouldn't

478
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,440
trust at all. Because they changed their shot profile this year.

479
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,960
It's kind of this is so typical Bulls, like the

480
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,359
fan base have like spent years clamoring for a chain

481
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,200
shot profile and like more threes, more efficiency. They finally

482
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,640
do do it this year, and they're actually fun to

483
00:22:31,759 --> 00:22:34,079
watch as a direct assault result. I know, I had

484
00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:36,359
them super low on my League Pass rankings. I think

485
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,839
I had them like twenty eighth or something. And oh

486
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,200
as far as I'm you know, I yeah, but like

487
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,079
I look, I actually find them interesting to watch this

488
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,400
year because they're playing an up and down brand of basketball.

489
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,079
They're fun to watch. It's just the weirdest, weirdest timing

490
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,920
to do it because the need for rebuild. I think

491
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,240
you and I both agree on this, like it's it's

492
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,160
been there for a while now, Like we consider and

493
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,319
talk about, oh, why is there an argument that they

494
00:22:59,319 --> 00:23:01,279
shouldn't know? Like, let's get that out of the way

495
00:23:01,599 --> 00:23:05,319
first and foremost. There is no real argument for the

496
00:23:05,319 --> 00:23:08,559
Bulls not blowing this to Smith Rereens. There's no argument

497
00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:11,119
for it. Like I understand what you're saying though, like

498
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,640
given the current construct, given that what they that they

499
00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:16,640
want to win, is there any reason for it? And no,

500
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:20,359
through that perspective, No, that said, of course this team

501
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,720
isn't going anywhere. The more concerning bid is that Billy

502
00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:26,680
Donovan signed the contract extension. He has been on record

503
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,559
for saying he does not want to be a Satchel

504
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,440
rebuilding team, which suggests to your point, Dan, that they're

505
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,640
not going to rebuild, that they're not going to flip

506
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,720
you know, major pieces right now. Just to say part of.

507
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: Part of that. And maybe this is me if I

508
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,519
wanted to play devil's advocate of your saying there's no

509
00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:48,000
case to keeping it together when you only have let's

510
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,039
all throw Bruzelles and giddy and then there's like Kobe

511
00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:54,720
White is kind of your maybe blue chip quarterstone options.

512
00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 2: Well, no, no, because the rules right there.

513
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: You can again I agree with you there, but my

514
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:03,799
point being like, that's also if they're gonna trade Kobe White,

515
00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:05,519
like none of these players for Kobe White, I think

516
00:24:05,559 --> 00:24:07,559
they get two first round picks. But I think a

517
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:10,720
big thing. I don't know if front offices team spend

518
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,160
too much time thinking about this, but the optics of

519
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,039
not having that clear pole star. After I commend Sean

520
00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:19,599
Marx has now done this like two or three times. Yeah,

521
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,960
hit reset without having that primary cornerstone in place, and

522
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,920
you figure it out as you go. I really do

523
00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:27,799
think teams.

524
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:29,839
Speaker 2: Then Simons, okay, fair enough.

525
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:31,799
Speaker 1: I think teams are more reluctant to do that. And

526
00:24:31,839 --> 00:24:33,799
with the Bulls, it's even if you just move Vouch

527
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:35,640
and Levigne for whatever and maybe see what you get

528
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,119
for some of the other guys on the roster. It's

529
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,119
like they almost feel like they're obligated to keep Kobe

530
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,640
White because he's the closest they come to that thing.

531
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,440
And Loo, Kobe White's really good. He's still like his

532
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,880
efficiency's down to tick this year, but he's he's scoring

533
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,640
at a faster clip while playing a few more minutes. I

534
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,119
know he's dealing with the eye injury at the moment.

535
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,440
I just they're fascinating to me because they are. When

536
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,319
I was saying that they're unwatchable, I was talking about

537
00:24:57,319 --> 00:24:59,559
the preseason. They have been mostly a pleasant watch this

538
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,880
year and even look when you have zach Lavine and

539
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,240
like what Vuoch has been doing. A lot of the

540
00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:06,319
appeal of them is like when they get up and down.

541
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,680
But like their half court offense is ten since December first,

542
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,200
Like this is a competent offensive team. I just don't

543
00:25:13,079 --> 00:25:14,680
when we're talking about this, like this is not a

544
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,960
team I'm gonna consider as when we're which of these

545
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,759
teams is the most dangerous or can make the most noise?

546
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:21,039
Oh yeah, this year, of all the teams that we're

547
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:23,319
going to talk about, they're literally the only ones that

548
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,440
if they make a trade to add to this is inexcusable,

549
00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:29,839
unforgivable and deserve to be trashed for it. And that's

550
00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:32,400
I guess that's the definition of no man's land.

551
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 2: That they're until they're better.

552
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: Than expected, but not meaningfully enough to change their trajectory.

553
00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:41,839
And yet if you're trading the players were talking about,

554
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,279
there's only one that I think gives you a bunch

555
00:25:44,319 --> 00:25:46,240
of value when you look at it through the lens

556
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:50,000
of draft equity. And I also don't think fans are

557
00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:54,519
conditioned to grade trades through the or interpret trades through that,

558
00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:56,480
which is which is fine. But like some of the

559
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,680
biggest criticisms I get with my trades or when I'm

560
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,200
reacting to trades is they didn't get any players back,

561
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:03,039
or look at what salary is going, and it's well,

562
00:26:03,079 --> 00:26:05,599
look at the draft picks there getting I don't I

563
00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:08,319
think the Bulls kind of manage their I mean their fans,

564
00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:10,160
to be clear, I think would have managed a better

565
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,720
team at this point. I'm not saying bull fans are

566
00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:15,200
opposed to a rebuild. I'm just I don't think this

567
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,920
team has the stomach to go that route to where

568
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,559
maybe they'll Tradevouch. I'm almost at the point where I

569
00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:22,079
don't think they're gonna trade zac Lavine.

570
00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think you're right. I mean, look that

571
00:26:25,599 --> 00:26:29,319
is I think I even was that Casey Johnson someone

572
00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:32,200
else someone covering the Bulls might have actually been Will Gottlieb.

573
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,599
I don't remember. Someone said that they could see the

574
00:26:35,599 --> 00:26:39,240
Bulls trade one guy and as to not create too

575
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:41,480
much turnover right off the bat because they move slow.

576
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:43,839
They just this is a team that has gone through

577
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,799
years and years without trades, wearing examples beforehand, like this

578
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:50,559
is a team that's way too patient for their own good.

579
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,440
So it is sort of a dream scenario for a

580
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,559
lot of Bulls fans that both Sac and Vooch are

581
00:26:55,599 --> 00:26:58,079
traded like during the same trade to line, like, I'm

582
00:26:58,079 --> 00:27:00,200
not gonna put it past them to do so, I'm

583
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,000
not going to say the Bulls could never, but it

584
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,119
it's a stretch of the imagination for sure. Absolutely, Booch

585
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,079
is probably the main guy because if you don't cash

586
00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:11,160
in on his season right now, he's.

587
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: Just an aspiring contract in the offseason.

588
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,319
Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, exactly, you might as well tell a team, look,

589
00:27:16,319 --> 00:27:18,880
you can get two playoffs out of him right now.

590
00:27:19,079 --> 00:27:23,000
And if he maintains this current production, this current efficiency

591
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:25,400
for this year, you have a real guy right here,

592
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,960
at least for this year. So like if the Bulls

593
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,519
failed to trade the Kola Busovich this trade deadline, that's

594
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:34,680
also malpractice. Like again, they put themselves in this situation,

595
00:27:34,759 --> 00:27:39,039
Dan where it's so difficult to see them succeed in

596
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,960
many many ways. Like hel They even have a center

597
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,519
who I think is ready to start ahead of Boach

598
00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:47,839
if he's moved. Jalen Smith is right there. I would

599
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,839
have no issue throwing him to the start of lie.

600
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,799
Speaker 1: That's both of them has been. The idea of both

601
00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:54,359
of them has been pretty big for their offense where

602
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,880
you just have so many floor spacing minutes at the five.

603
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,279
I know Jalen Smith percentages can rise and fall want

604
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:02,240
to ask too, And to his credit, I've been pretty

605
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,720
hard on that trade. And I know a lot of

606
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,200
Bulls fans have pushed back. They're like, look at the

607
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,680
money CRUs have gotten his extension. He's injured right now.

608
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,359
Not shooting well, Josh can He's played a little better.

609
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,839
Like the shooting inside the arc is ticked up. The

610
00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:15,640
Bulls are officially better for the season at both ends

611
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,440
of the floor with him on the court, I do

612
00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:20,640
not think maybe aside from ending possessions with the rebound,

613
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,759
I still don't think he provides much value at all

614
00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:23,720
on the defensive end.

615
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 2: Oh he does not. Those numbers are certainly cherry or

616
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,279
not cherry pick, but like very highly influenced that the

617
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,039
other people on the on the court with him.

618
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: Yes, I still just don't know that I like this

619
00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:36,519
is this, I will say, if not his ideal circumstance,

620
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:38,759
but it might come pretty close when you're talking about

621
00:28:38,799 --> 00:28:41,640
the geography of how this offense is set up in

622
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,039
the half court. I still just don't see it with him.

623
00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:45,839
I'm gonna be so fascinated by how much they pay

624
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,920
him or again, I don't think he's been terrible, and

625
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,359
I don't. My stands has just never been that he's

626
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,480
one of the worst players in the NBA. I think

627
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,079
he's just one of the most uniquely specific skill sets

628
00:28:56,079 --> 00:28:58,720
that doesn't do enough in his optimal role to justify

629
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,480
tailoring your team to that uniquely specific skill set. You

630
00:29:02,519 --> 00:29:05,279
have to be Onion Williams in peak Zion Williams in

631
00:29:05,359 --> 00:29:08,079
healthy level to be that type of when you're again

632
00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:11,519
when your skill set and position whatever archetype is just

633
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:12,400
so narrow.

634
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: I love that you pointed out Sion specifically, because I

635
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,480
was gonna make that comparison, like some players are immensely talented,

636
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,759
but they're just awful to build around, Like you cannot

637
00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:25,680
build something around them unless they're utterly elite at like

638
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,480
two or three things Josh Giddy has. Here's the thing

639
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:32,680
people were saying, you know, oh he has elite court vision,

640
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:36,200
Like I'm not there, like he's he doesn't have, you know,

641
00:29:36,279 --> 00:29:38,799
Trey Young court mission, he doesn't have like that sense.

642
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,640
He's like he's a good pastor. I'll that I'll go

643
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:44,200
to my grave with. Because that's absolutely true. He's a

644
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:49,640
phenomenal rebounder. That's it. That is literally it, Like you

645
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,119
can he can rebound, he can pass the ball, that's it,

646
00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:56,920
and you can't structure anything of substance around that. Like

647
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,400
if the Bulls feel pressured because they make that deal,

648
00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:03,440
go into this offseason and say two to Josh Giddy,

649
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,240
Look here you go twenty five million a year. That

650
00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:08,559
is like, first and foremost, who are you gonna like,

651
00:30:08,599 --> 00:30:10,799
who are you negotiating against for him?

652
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,559
Speaker 1: I mean like restricted free agencies become non existent for

653
00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,200
the most part, Like these teams are not tendering offer sheets.

654
00:30:18,279 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I wouldn't. I wouldn't even be interested in

655
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,640
resigning him if I'm the Bulls.

656
00:30:23,319 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: Well that's interesting. I mean they do have depending on

657
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,359
what he gets. When you look at how that Patrick

658
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,160
Williams steel is aging at the moment, they would have

659
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,119
some potential to have like two of the worst contracts.

660
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,200
I guess some people still consider Zaclavine's contract bad, but

661
00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:38,000
and I like, that's the other thing too, is just

662
00:30:38,519 --> 00:30:41,000
the Patrick Williams deal does not look any better. I

663
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:42,759
don't like. I still he definitely has a ton of

664
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:46,880
defensive utility. His shootings in three since December one has

665
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,920
been borderline atrocious, sub thirty two percent. This team is

666
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,000
tough because I'm gonna have.

667
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: To eat crow by the way on the Patrick Williams thing,

668
00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:57,039
because over the over the summer, I was like, this

669
00:30:57,119 --> 00:31:01,559
contract is fine, like he was hwise, he was like

670
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,079
trending towards a couple of years ago. He was trending

671
00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:06,759
towards oh g nnobe territory, And I was like, you

672
00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:09,359
know what, I kind of buy it Like he was.

673
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,200
He was sort of like the last resort on offense.

674
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,480
I never like singled out Tomar for like taking away

675
00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:18,680
develop and touches necessarily because I did think he was

676
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,200
too passive. But there was a part of me was thinking, like, okay,

677
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,519
when Damar's gone, when he wasn't using all those possessions

678
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:26,359
in the mid range area. All right, that's going to

679
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,240
open up shots for Patrick Williams. I'm not worried, Oh

680
00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:31,240
my god, to have an egg on my face and

681
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:33,119
I'm eating crow at the same time. What a side

682
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:33,599
that I am.

683
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: I don't even remember what we thought about the average

684
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,480
annual value. We probably thought it could be neutral. We

685
00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:42,279
Grant and myself were just flabberg acid that he got

686
00:31:42,279 --> 00:31:44,960
a player option. What was who was First of all,

687
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,720
he couldn't even get a fifty from anybody else and why.

688
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,160
I understand player options can have benefits because maybe they'll

689
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,519
opt out and come out of a lower number, but

690
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,400
it was just it was mind boggling. So to wrap

691
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,599
it up on the bulls, I have to ask you, Yeah,

692
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,079
we're talking in circles and we're confused, and we've noticed things,

693
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:02,480
we've made observation. Is there anything that you see this

694
00:32:02,599 --> 00:32:07,599
season that you can take away and nods to a

695
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,759
semi coherent or positive long term trajectory for this team,

696
00:32:12,759 --> 00:32:15,720
because I guess that's what still is. I don't understand

697
00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:18,759
what their intentions, like, I mean, I'm looking at it

698
00:32:18,759 --> 00:32:22,160
this way. I'm not even trying to like say that

699
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,839
what they're doing is right, but how are they viewing

700
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,400
this team? And like what is I don't even understand

701
00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:29,319
their perspective, Like I just don't.

702
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: That's a that's a mental exercise. Bulls have tried, Bulls

703
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,039
fans have tried to understand for four years, and they

704
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:37,720
are growing literally insane because of it, because no one

705
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,160
sees it. Look I will. I've always prided myself on

706
00:32:41,279 --> 00:32:43,799
never saying I would do as good a job in

707
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:46,759
a GM role, because I think that's lunacy. Every single

708
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:50,079
GM in the NBA has has forgotten more about basketball

709
00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:55,079
than I'll ever know. The Bulls are quickly becoming an

710
00:32:55,079 --> 00:32:58,079
exception for me and about one hundred of my closest

711
00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:00,839
and bea friends in terms. So like people who cover

712
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,119
the league, you would sleepwalk into doing a better job

713
00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:07,079
Dan in Chicago than our towards Carnis Shovers and Mark

714
00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:10,960
Eversley is doing right now. It's it's so egregiously put

715
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,200
together from a front office perspective that I can't sit

716
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,039
here and say, oh, what are like what are the

717
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,720
redeemon pieces? Like you know how low I am right now?

718
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,039
I'm looking at Masas Brussella's and Julian Phillips and going,

719
00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:24,839
well they might be keepers. Those are the two people

720
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,400
I can single out everyone else.

721
00:33:26,519 --> 00:33:30,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, Talon Horton Tucker plays like Cristiano Felicio wants to

722
00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:31,720
dribble more, you know, and.

723
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,519
Speaker 2: He's like he takes threes. That looks like exactly like

724
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:36,880
how Chuck took threes back in the day. Yeah, no

725
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:39,920
interesting player, but like, oh.

726
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,319
Speaker 1: No, I'm being completely facetious.

727
00:33:41,559 --> 00:33:45,039
Speaker 2: Oh okay, good right, But like I just I don't

728
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:48,920
see like oh Dalen Terry, Like no, I just I

729
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,319
there's no one there where I'm like, yeah, untradable or

730
00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:55,799
not untradable, but like, yeah, this is a core piece

731
00:33:56,079 --> 00:33:57,799
and that's why they should tear it all down. That's

732
00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:00,480
that's also why I think they should get control of

733
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:02,440
their draft pick back, because that's how.

734
00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: Old are you gonna find that player? If he's not

735
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,039
on the rustle, you need to get it through the

736
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:07,559
draft and right now. Even if you get to keep

737
00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:11,199
your pick, yep, number eight or nine, maybe that's fine

738
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,599
in this draft, but like it's different then. But by

739
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:16,320
the way, the real final thing is, is it too late?

740
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:20,840
Just because if you're trying to get you know, top

741
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,280
end lottery odds. They are off of a bottom five record,

742
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,679
Like I guess there, they have twenty one losses and

743
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,000
they're about seven losses behind a bottom five record with

744
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,280
you know, teams like the Jazz, the Nets and the

745
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,480
Wizards are determined to lose and they're going nowhere. And

746
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:39,440
I assume at some point if they're not there already,

747
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,400
the Pelicans, the Raptors, these are all teams have lost

748
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,239
a bunch, but you don't necessarily know if that's their aim.

749
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:46,119
One or two of those teams is gonna feel the

750
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:48,320
same way and they've already and that might, by the way,

751
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,119
that might contribute to why the Bulls don't do much,

752
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:52,079
if anything at the trade deadline. Is well, how are

753
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:53,920
we supposed to catch these teams that are worse than

754
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:54,719
us already?

755
00:34:55,079 --> 00:34:58,039
Speaker 2: It's it's kind of wild, right, So imagine this. The

756
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,440
Bulls are loosers. If they sit still, they're loosers. If

757
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,519
they're buyers, they're only winners, like they're only winners if

758
00:35:05,559 --> 00:35:06,440
they have a fire sale.

759
00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: And by the way, some people might not even consider

760
00:35:10,519 --> 00:35:13,519
them that because are they gonna move? Of all the players,

761
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:16,239
they're most likely to move. There's a is there a

762
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,159
chance none of them, like Kobe White, would get you

763
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:20,519
first round picks. I don't think they're gonna move Kobe White,

764
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:22,159
though I think they should. I've been pretty clear, but

765
00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:24,239
I think he's good and that's why they should move them.

766
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,159
This isn't a Kobe White is His trade value is

767
00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:29,480
like it was probably highest over the off season, and

768
00:35:29,519 --> 00:35:31,119
it's just going to continue to get lower because the

769
00:35:31,119 --> 00:35:32,800
time left on Asian as you mentioned the one hundred

770
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,599
and forty percent extension rules, They're they're probably not gonna

771
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:38,360
trade him, and so they don't have a single like

772
00:35:38,559 --> 00:35:40,719
Zach Lavine. I would give up a first round pick

773
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,760
for Zach Lavine for two?

774
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,039
Speaker 2: Would the Bulls ask for it?

775
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: That might be? It's that might be where it's time

776
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,159
to move on. Is that the bulls remain confusing? Is

777
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:51,880
how I mean?

778
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 2: I will just say that. In my Yahoo piece where

779
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,760
I also brought up the bulls, I actually I specifically

780
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,239
typed out that you might be able to get away

781
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,559
with less because these bulls are just so god awful

782
00:36:02,559 --> 00:36:05,679
at negotiating so like and and look, I didn't even

783
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,519
say as a joke, like there's historical precedents of this

784
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:13,199
current front office being horrible negotiators. I think we have

785
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,920
to bag it into our analysis. Like if you're an

786
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,760
NBA team out there who listens to the hardwood knocks,

787
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,079
because obviously you should be, give them a call, give them,

788
00:36:24,119 --> 00:36:25,079
give the bulls a call.

789
00:36:26,119 --> 00:36:27,679
Speaker 1: Throws up at the wall and see it sticks.

790
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, like more than look, you have pretty decent knots.

791
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,559
Like you're at a bar at four am in the morning,

792
00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:37,679
where and you're a little drunk. That person at the

793
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,320
end of the bar looks looks pretty good. That's where

794
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,440
they are all the time. Just go go try well.

795
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: Actually, we're about to talk about what I think is

796
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,000
one of the best aclavine destinations in the league, and

797
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,719
that's the Detroit Pistons. Oooh more. You know they're pretty good.

798
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,519
They are these in and it's okay, they're below average

799
00:36:56,559 --> 00:36:59,719
offense and defense. They're twelfth in offense since December first,

800
00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:06,440
they're thirteen to nine in the clutch. Kate Cunningham is amazing.

801
00:37:06,559 --> 00:37:08,119
People are still just going to point to the true

802
00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:10,760
shooting percentage and say there, so that miss me with it,

803
00:37:11,039 --> 00:37:12,519
Like you want him to be more efficient as time

804
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:14,320
goes on. But the shots that he's taking the level

805
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,760
of responsibility shoulders on the offense. He drives everything for

806
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,159
this team, and I think even just as a playmaker,

807
00:37:21,159 --> 00:37:23,880
he's improved as a I'm repeating myself for other podcasts.

808
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,000
He's improved as a defender, He's improved as a rebounder.

809
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,559
He's been fantastic. We've seen better play from the veterans

810
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:33,519
since the Jade and Ivy injury. That's been big. Just

811
00:37:33,559 --> 00:37:36,480
the general setup of their offense, and there's you know,

812
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,639
there's a lot of iffy center play going around with them.

813
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,159
Jayalen Duran has his moments and also has his I

814
00:37:41,199 --> 00:37:42,519
guess we'd call them non moments.

815
00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 2: I don't really know. Yeah, unfortunately, so I was expecting

816
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,679
a little bit more out of him this year, But

817
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,880
you know what, he's still super young, so let's give

818
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:50,320
him time.

819
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,039
Speaker 1: And just I mean, Malie Beasley's been huge for them.

820
00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:56,199
Even we killed the Tim Hardaway junior transaction, just I

821
00:37:56,199 --> 00:37:57,960
thought they pounced a little too early and giving up

822
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,800
Quentin and grinds the process him to space the floor,

823
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,280
having to buyas Harris play better to space the floor,

824
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,719
even match up against just some tougher defensive coverages. This

825
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,559
is all to say, and this isn't news anyone who's

826
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:10,599
listened to this or more or I think look, even

827
00:38:10,639 --> 00:38:14,480
some of the like the mainstream national podcasts are beginning

828
00:38:14,519 --> 00:38:16,880
to talk about the Pistons. That's how you know the

829
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,360
Pistons are good. They are good. What is fascinating with

830
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,480
them more is all right before we get into their

831
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:27,039
pick that they owe to Minnesota and if they should

832
00:38:27,079 --> 00:38:31,039
do anything at the trade deadline this roster, specifically knowing

833
00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:32,840
that Jay and Ivy isn't gonna play this season, also

834
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,519
kind of knowing the roles I still love Astar Thompson,

835
00:38:35,519 --> 00:38:38,039
particularly on the defensive end, but knowing the I would

836
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:40,639
say the somewhat muted roles that a star Thompson and

837
00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:43,920
Ron Holland have. What is your view of this team

838
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,719
this season as presently constructed as to what, like, how

839
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,559
good they are, how good they could ultimately be.

840
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,559
Speaker 2: I still think there's a ceiling. I mean, don't get

841
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:55,039
me wrong. What we've seen over the past few weeks

842
00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:58,079
has been extremely encouraging. The fact that Kate has doubled

843
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:00,199
Ubb is the biggest to take away from me, Like

844
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,159
I'm not even looking at them necessarily from like a

845
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,719
team lens right now. I think I'm looking at them

846
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,239
more so through the Kate lens because I think that

847
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,480
was mission number one for them this year was trying

848
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,599
to figure out, what do we actually have in Kate Cunningham.

849
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,280
Does he have the upside that we were anticipating picking

850
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,760
him first back then, because remember his comp going into

851
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,920
draft was like the American Luka Doncic. That was the idea,

852
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,119
that was the expectation. Then he had the year where

853
00:39:29,159 --> 00:39:31,280
he only played twelve games. He came back the year

854
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,719
after played well, but a lot of people felt like

855
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,880
he left something on the table. Now he's finally figuring

856
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,440
it out. I think he's become a much better pass

857
00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:43,800
or much better like floor leader than I actually envisioned

858
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,280
he would be at age twenty three, So loads of

859
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,920
upside for him now. Trying to tailor that back to

860
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,559
your question in terms of like the broader spectrum of

861
00:39:53,559 --> 00:39:56,440
the team, I do think there's a ceiling. I do

862
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,159
think there's a ceiling like Jaden going out huge huge

863
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,840
laws like if you're if you're going to have any

864
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,960
sort of playoff aspirations and you make it to the playoffs,

865
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,239
who is going to be your creators outside of kid

866
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,119
can can you rely on Tim Martini internship to go

867
00:40:11,159 --> 00:40:14,280
in and create Probably not, not Tobias Harris either. Like

868
00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:17,719
Ron Holland is still, in my opinion, a year maybe

869
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,800
two away from being like that guy at the Wingspot.

870
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:26,840
There are a lot of questions still open for those guys,

871
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,440
like they want a ton of game until the past

872
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,920
couple of weeks. Is that a blip? Is that real?

873
00:40:33,159 --> 00:40:34,840
I think those conversations are real.

874
00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: They've been Yeah, they've been pesky for pretty much the

875
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:41,320
entire year. I'm I'm very I think I we know

876
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,360
what they need on offense. It's just I think they

877
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,039
You could have made this case even with j and

878
00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:47,599
Ivy being a better fit for this team before his injury,

879
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,320
if you need the other creator who can run things

880
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,679
without Kaid and like, but you also want them to

881
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,360
be able to play alongside kids. When the vein of

882
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,800
J and Ivy improving his away from the ball like gravity,

883
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,280
you want that from them as well. But I don't

884
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,679
know how to feel about this team defensively, and I

885
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,039
think that JB. Bickerstaff, from what I've seen of the Pistons,

886
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:08,559
has done a good job of maybe vacillating the approach

887
00:41:08,599 --> 00:41:10,000
where it's like it feels like they go through these

888
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:13,199
pockets of more aggression, but then there's gonna be more conservative.

889
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,280
But when you're looking at the personnel they're leaning on

890
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,400
most I don't know how to feel about them defensively

891
00:41:18,639 --> 00:41:21,000
or how you would go about I think they could

892
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,400
probably upgrade it, ironically if they played some of the

893
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,280
youngsters more in a Highland or a Soward Thompson specifically,

894
00:41:26,519 --> 00:41:28,679
But I don't think you're gonna do that without severely

895
00:41:28,679 --> 00:41:32,119
compromising an offense that has been ultra competent with kid

896
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:34,159
who is Like we talk about veterans stepping up without

897
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,920
je and Ivy cad on the season thirty five points

898
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,960
per one hundred without j and Ivy on the floor,

899
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,519
Like this is just Kate, Like they have the hardest

900
00:41:42,519 --> 00:41:44,639
thing for the Pistons is already done. We have questions

901
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,119
probably about everyone else on the roster, or or you

902
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:50,360
could have questions. The hardest part is done, Kay Cunningham,

903
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,480
is that dude. You could rank him how you feel

904
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,599
about him, rest everyone else? The hardest part set I

905
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,559
just they're pesky. I find myself and this gets into

906
00:41:59,559 --> 00:42:02,360
the moves I want them I'm not saying they give

907
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,360
up a first round pick, but their top their pick

908
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,280
is owed to Minnesota this year top thirteen protected. I'm

909
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,519
a huge advocate for increasing your flexibility moving forward and

910
00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:12,320
being able to move on your feet a little bit more.

911
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,400
And what if you get really good, you want to

912
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,760
be unencumbered by that obligation. And we just talked about

913
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,199
this with the Bulls. It's certainly the case with the Pistons,

914
00:42:20,199 --> 00:42:23,320
who are less likely to enter a mode where they

915
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,840
shut down the time to say, oh, like no, this

916
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,039
team could still get like ultra top lottery odds, but

917
00:42:29,159 --> 00:42:33,079
it's gone, so if you can buy without giving up

918
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:36,559
future first round equity. That's where I'm at with them

919
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,440
is I think that they're they're that good, but they

920
00:42:39,519 --> 00:42:41,320
also could just be Like, looking at where they are

921
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:44,320
right now, I would be fairly surprised if they do

922
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,079
nothing and get a top six spot in the East.

923
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:49,320
But like as a top eight, like one of the

924
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,199
better playing teams, I think they could do nothing and

925
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:54,320
that'll just be absolutely in play.

926
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,639
Speaker 2: Yeah fine, yeah, no, I hear you on that. So

927
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:00,719
what do you what do you reckon right now? If like,

928
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,719
what do you think internal their thinking do you think

929
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,360
they share your approach by basically saying, look, if we

930
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,320
just make it to the play to the playoffs, everything

931
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:10,360
is gravy from there.

932
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: If they make it to the playoffs, that absolutely is

933
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,039
the mindset. It might even be the plane for them,

934
00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:17,199
because you mentioned this with oh, right the Hawks, like

935
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,280
sending the twelfth pick to Minnesota or something like, well,

936
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,599
you wouldn't send the twelfth pick, but like if you

937
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:24,199
just make the plan, so then you're gonna get your

938
00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:26,000
pick anyway if you wind up getting bounce from it

939
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:29,639
in all likelihood. So I am curious what their thought

940
00:43:29,679 --> 00:43:33,480
process would be, but I don't even know, Like is

941
00:43:33,519 --> 00:43:35,400
the like is what I outline is what I think

942
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,400
is their biggest need? Like is that even right given

943
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,719
the success that they're still continuing to have on offense,

944
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,599
or that might they look at it as we need

945
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,639
kind of more bankable center player. Can someone blur the

946
00:43:44,639 --> 00:43:48,119
lines of both Isaiah Stewart and Jaleen Duran together to

947
00:43:48,199 --> 00:43:50,199
do that those are probably the spots or I think

948
00:43:50,199 --> 00:43:52,440
you can even say it's weird to say that they

949
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,960
have so many needs, but they are kind of filled

950
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,079
with placeholders and unproven players, like getting someone who's more

951
00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:01,400
of a two way wing than they ultimately have right

952
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,960
now because they don't have do they have a two

953
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,159
way wing on the roster? Who's the closest that comes

954
00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:12,280
to meeting the two way wing criteria for them.

955
00:44:11,079 --> 00:44:14,159
Speaker 2: Down the line? Ron holloand right now? Because that's right now,

956
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,920
that's I mean, yeah.

957
00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:21,079
Speaker 1: Isn't that even more impressive they're getting. I know you've

958
00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:24,400
seen like probably some better like defensive moments from certain guys,

959
00:44:24,519 --> 00:44:27,239
like they're doing what they're doing right now, I would

960
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,360
say with I don't know if the word is dearth,

961
00:44:29,559 --> 00:44:32,440
but they're probably at just a two way player deficit

962
00:44:32,639 --> 00:44:34,280
to players that you know are going to give you

963
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,159
this at both ends of the floor every single night.

964
00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:38,039
Isn't that positive?

965
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: So why do you want to trade for secloleen?

966
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 1: Well? I just you could get well, could you get him?

967
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,119
You might have to give up a young player to

968
00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:46,679
get him, which I guess is where it gets icy.

969
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,199
But like you kind of have that when you look

970
00:44:48,199 --> 00:44:51,000
at Tim Hardaway Junior. Because so my big thing with

971
00:44:51,039 --> 00:44:53,599
them would be if you're gonna lean into the offense,

972
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,519
let's get some more on ball gravity there, and you're

973
00:44:56,559 --> 00:44:58,559
just not going to have that in Tim Hardaway Junior,

974
00:44:58,679 --> 00:45:00,480
You're not even gonna have that and to buy Harrison,

975
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,679
so you throw Zach Lavine into the fold here. I

976
00:45:02,679 --> 00:45:05,119
guess the biggest criticism would be, I don't care about

977
00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:06,880
the money, Like, as long as you're not sending off

978
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,840
future first round picks, I don't care about the money.

979
00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:11,840
What does that mean for Jade and Ivy's future with

980
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,079
this team if Zack Lavine is all of a sudden

981
00:45:14,199 --> 00:45:14,440
on it.

982
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: And that's why I probably wouldn't do it. I actually

983
00:45:18,079 --> 00:45:20,119
want to see this team stay on the timeline a

984
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:23,119
little bit. I'm also a little curious as to why

985
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:26,119
they basically told I Saya Stewart to stop taking threes.

986
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,039
That's that's something I'm a little weird about buy because

987
00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:32,119
I want to see them more spaced out offensively. Uh

988
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,119
And he was. I think he was showing signs of

989
00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:38,599
becoming a pretty reliable three point shooter. There are there

990
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:41,559
are definitely some internal things I would I would change.

991
00:45:41,639 --> 00:45:43,800
I would go out and try to find guys that

992
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,119
are a little closer to the timeline of CAD because,

993
00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:49,960
like I think, I think their thought process from last

994
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,239
year to this year. Also when they underwent the entire

995
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,960
management management restructure. Is we need more adults in the room. Okay,

996
00:45:57,119 --> 00:45:59,639
mission accomplished. You got Tobias Harrus in there, Tim Hardaway,

997
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,239
you and your Malik Beastley, Smoe von Sekio is still there.

998
00:46:03,559 --> 00:46:05,679
So like you have the adults in the room, that's great.

999
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,599
Like you said, those are placeholders, is you also have

1000
00:46:08,679 --> 00:46:11,800
to like factor in is now the tign to remove

1001
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,760
those placeholders for like timeline pieces or are you still

1002
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,000
a year away from doing that? Maybe if you take

1003
00:46:19,039 --> 00:46:21,599
off the training wheels now, maybe that's too soon. Like

1004
00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:24,280
there's a balancing act here that I have a very

1005
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,119
hard time identifying as to when it's the right time.

1006
00:46:27,679 --> 00:46:30,199
Speaker 1: So you don't think that we know enough about them

1007
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,360
or maybe even that they're dangerous enough as is to

1008
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,559
take that type of like a more aggressive approach into

1009
00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:37,559
the trade deadline.

1010
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: Again, it depends on the player, like I will say,

1011
00:46:40,039 --> 00:46:42,679
as much like like you said, if you go out

1012
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,039
and get a guy like look, let's just bring up

1013
00:46:45,079 --> 00:46:48,559
cyclobene again, because like say, let's say you trade Tobias

1014
00:46:48,599 --> 00:46:51,280
Harris and Tim Hardaway junior form. You know you're not

1015
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,480
relinquishing draft Carabital Cyclobin is also twenty nine, so you

1016
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,880
still get an adult in the room, Like on some

1017
00:47:00,119 --> 00:47:04,960
level you know it's I would do that. Yeah, sure

1018
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,480
I would do that. Like that's an aggressive move and

1019
00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:10,960
you get a substantial challenge Jackson, that's that's never a

1020
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,679
bad thing. What I'm then wondering is what's the next step? Like,

1021
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:16,199
like you said, because then is he going to take

1022
00:47:16,199 --> 00:47:18,320
over ja Nibs mean is like what is he going

1023
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,760
to take necessary shots away from Kate? Like, what's the plan?

1024
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: Would you view? Could something maybe in the middle of

1025
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,599
that be okay, well, let's get a different type of

1026
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,960
or more consistent big man in here. Then, like if

1027
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,519
they honestly you know what they could do. I don't

1028
00:47:32,519 --> 00:47:34,599
know if Portland would do it. They don't even need

1029
00:47:34,639 --> 00:47:36,960
to send out money to take in Robert Williams the third.

1030
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,000
Could you give up enough seconds for Portland to say, like,

1031
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,239
would that be an avenue they should go where? Okay,

1032
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:43,960
you're not getting you're not getting the three point shooting

1033
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,199
element out of your centers right now.

1034
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:46,119
Speaker 2: Your half court.

1035
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: Defense over the path past month plus in particular, has

1036
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,079
been a mess. That is, someone who can contain the

1037
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:53,199
ball if you need him to come out, but he's

1038
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,320
he can also like he's not huge, but he can

1039
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,800
do stuff around the basket and then he gives you.

1040
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,719
I mean, I guess the way that they've used Isaiah

1041
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,800
Stewart iss Er, you could say that Robert Williams the

1042
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,880
third if he's fully healthy, which always a question.

1043
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,079
Speaker 2: Uh. I was about to say, I love the idea

1044
00:48:09,079 --> 00:48:12,000
of Robert Williams for the sixteen games.

1045
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,599
Speaker 1: So sturting out anybody, you're just kind of taking a

1046
00:48:14,679 --> 00:48:16,800
fire on him with seconds? Is that something that or

1047
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,000
does that that doesn't do it for you?

1048
00:48:18,039 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: Either, it's not, and I'm just gonna I'm just gonna

1049
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,880
tell you how it is. That doesn't get me hard,

1050
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:23,920
baby whatsoever.

1051
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: I still I'm super intrigued by them. I just don't

1052
00:48:28,599 --> 00:48:31,840
I don't know that they have even though statistically they

1053
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,400
have at points this season. I don't know how much

1054
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,199
of a higher defensive ceiling they're gonna be able to

1055
00:48:37,199 --> 00:48:40,159
carve out with this current group unless they really I

1056
00:48:40,199 --> 00:48:43,320
don't want to say submarine, but definitely like ding like

1057
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,639
their offensive dynamics right now.

1058
00:48:45,679 --> 00:48:48,119
Speaker 2: I wonder if they even worry about it, Like I

1059
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,000
wonder if they are just taking the approach, like you

1060
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,400
said earlier, like basically if they if they just make

1061
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,320
it to the play in, then they're fine.

1062
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,159
Speaker 1: And then I think it's fine. I'm just interpreting this

1063
00:48:58,199 --> 00:48:59,880
as we're having the discussion of like which of these

1064
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,039
teams is the most dangerous? Is they're like yeah in

1065
00:49:02,079 --> 00:49:05,840
Detroit winning out in this discussion relative to and like

1066
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,119
those are probably you need to figure out how to

1067
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:10,760
wait to be on the threat level of the Pacers

1068
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,800
the Sixers type for the most part, And so you

1069
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,639
think the Hawks the Hawks too, And I mean, like,

1070
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,360
I don't know, there might be some more room between

1071
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:20,800
me and I don't know what to talk about, but

1072
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,719
the Sixers. There might be some like real head and

1073
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,360
shoulders room between the Pistons and then peak Hawks and Pacers.

1074
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,559
But it's just it's way closer than I ever would

1075
00:49:29,599 --> 00:49:30,199
have thought it was.

1076
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 2: I think, oh, sorry, just to wrap it up, like

1077
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,960
you said, something in between, like the sacla bene thing

1078
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:39,400
like some some want a little less than that. I

1079
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,480
don't have a specific name in mind, but I do

1080
00:49:42,599 --> 00:49:45,920
think like if you go into the traded line with

1081
00:49:45,679 --> 00:49:51,039
a set of rules, you basically say we absolutely refuse

1082
00:49:51,119 --> 00:49:53,880
to give up draft capital what sort like draft equacy

1083
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:57,400
is off the freaking table. Will trade player contracts and

1084
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:02,159
that's it. If you can somehow find a small consolidation

1085
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:06,159
trade where you do bank on some type of talent injection,

1086
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,360
be that a wing, be that a guard, be that

1087
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,480
a big. I honestly do not care because the injury

1088
00:50:11,519 --> 00:50:13,840
to Jade and Ivy. That's why I'm opening up the guards.

1089
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,480
But as well, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't hate that. I

1090
00:50:16,519 --> 00:50:19,199
would only encourage them to do so as long as

1091
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,960
you are not removing draft picks from the equation, because

1092
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,719
this team could still struggle later on. I don't think

1093
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,079
just because they found the rhythm now we have this

1094
00:50:28,159 --> 00:50:30,519
tendency of watching the m BE and going, oh, this

1095
00:50:30,599 --> 00:50:32,760
team is good now, that means they'll be good forever.

1096
00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:35,400
Like no, maybe not. They could go in and have

1097
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,159
a major law later in the season. And that's why

1098
00:50:38,199 --> 00:50:39,840
that's just the rule that I would go into the

1099
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,239
trade headline with. If I'm piss just everything is interesting

1100
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,519
except for deals that involves us giving up draft equity.

1101
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 1: I think I would even go one step further and

1102
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,400
saying said most I agree with everything you're saying, I

1103
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,679
wouldn't go I wouldn't give up draft equity. Even said

1104
00:50:52,679 --> 00:50:54,559
that if you could get Za Levine without giving it up,

1105
00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:56,760
I really might consider I'm not gonna lie. I would

1106
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,599
take it one step further and say, because they still

1107
00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:01,360
need to care about the bigger picture. If you can

1108
00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:03,599
use your cap space right now and even some of

1109
00:51:03,639 --> 00:51:06,800
your contractual dynamics to take on money that's gonna spill

1110
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,639
it next year, but it's attached to enough, either like

1111
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,800
something that's intriguing enough as a draft pick or even

1112
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,920
a prospect, you are still I'm not telling the thing

1113
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,199
I wouldn't do. As an example, if I'm not gonna

1114
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,119
get a first round pick from Leak Beasley, who they're

1115
00:51:20,119 --> 00:51:21,519
not gonna have bird rights on this summer, so they're

1116
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:22,960
probably only gonna be able to offer the non times

1117
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,079
payimer level exception I'm holding onto him. So like portraying

1118
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:28,760
this team as sellers, I don't like. Yeah, there are

1119
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,559
no one on this roster aside from Cage is truly untouchable.

1120
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,039
But this is not a team that should go into

1121
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:36,719
the trade deadline looking to actively sell. But I also

1122
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,239
don't think that they need to prioritize this season specifically

1123
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,039
when they're looking at that cap space. Our next team

1124
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:47,639
is the Indiana Pacers lively bunch of late More, which

1125
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:52,400
not coincidentally coincided with the return of Andrew Nemhart on

1126
00:51:52,599 --> 00:51:55,159
December first and first, and before I even throw it

1127
00:51:55,199 --> 00:51:58,880
to you, uh, they have been since he returned, eighth

1128
00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:04,639
in points score possession and more importantly ninth in points

1129
00:52:04,679 --> 00:52:09,559
allowed per possession and equally important to that, third in

1130
00:52:09,679 --> 00:52:13,599
defensive rebounding rate. How are you feeling about these Indiana

1131
00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:17,679
Pacers with the quick caveat Tyre's Haliburton left their win

1132
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,519
over the Cleveland Cavaliers with a left hamstring strain, and

1133
00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:23,320
that's the same hamstring that he's had problems with in

1134
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,119
the past. And as we're recording this, we don't have

1135
00:52:26,199 --> 00:52:29,559
a prognosis an update time. You will miss if any.

1136
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,159
Speaker 2: I was actually gonna talk about Tyrs Halburton, because yes,

1137
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:34,199
one thing is that the winning street coincided with the

1138
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,880
return of Henry dam Hart. That's one thing I would

1139
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,679
just like to reach you. The numbers prior to the

1140
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:45,400
game that Haliburton went out the five games prior twenty

1141
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,280
four point eight points per game, ten point eight assists,

1142
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,360
two steals, got to the line five point two times

1143
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,840
per game, eighty eight and a half percentage conversion rate,

1144
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,559
forty eight point seven percent from three on almost eight

1145
00:52:58,599 --> 00:53:02,840
attempts per game, fifty four point seven percent shooting overall.

1146
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,679
This is the Tyrese Halibert and we've been waiting on.

1147
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,000
He'd spent the vast majority of the start of the

1148
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:12,599
season being very mediocre, very passive. I want to say,

1149
00:53:12,599 --> 00:53:15,000
I even wrote about over at Forbes when he's starting

1150
00:53:15,039 --> 00:53:18,119
to string together a couple of games, and unfortunately for me,

1151
00:53:18,159 --> 00:53:20,880
the timing was right because then he started just keep

1152
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,800
playing like that. If if it turns out that he's

1153
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,079
out for a while and knock on wood, that that

1154
00:53:27,159 --> 00:53:32,599
is not the case, that's a huge, huge loss. I mean,

1155
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,199
he this is what was needed for them. If he

1156
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,639
plays like this, you know the twenty five eleven and

1157
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,760
last year before he started getting injured, it was twenty

1158
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,400
six twelve. If he plays at that level, there's a

1159
00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:46,800
reasonable argument to be had that he's in that, you know,

1160
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,480
best traditional point guard in the NBA type of scenario,

1161
00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:52,760
because look, I will always go Luca in that regard,

1162
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,880
but he's not traditional. Luca is the exact opposite of traditional.

1163
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,960
So you know, but he is their main driver. Like

1164
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:02,679
we just talked about the Pistons that they've found their guy,

1165
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,880
Kate Cunningham. They've found him. He's there a guy moving forward.

1166
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,519
This is the Tyrese Haliburton that can push the Pacers

1167
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:13,519
into unknown territory in the playoffs. This is the Tyrese

1168
00:54:13,559 --> 00:54:16,639
Haliburton that can have them go back to the Eastern

1169
00:54:16,639 --> 00:54:19,440
Conference Finals even though they were a low set. This

1170
00:54:19,519 --> 00:54:21,960
is the Tyrese Haliburton who can surprise everyone and get

1171
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,239
them I don't know, all the way to the finals.

1172
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,840
Maybe because he is such a driver. He is such

1173
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,880
a relentless force when he's on and his jump shut

1174
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,760
is on that the trickle down effect of his game

1175
00:54:34,199 --> 00:54:38,800
is so wild that it's He's probably one of the

1176
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:40,960
main guys in the Eastern Conference who just drives so

1177
00:54:41,039 --> 00:54:44,320
much of his team success. So everything you're gonna ask

1178
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,480
me about the Pacers right now, I'm pretty much gonna

1179
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,639
come it back to Tyres Haliburton because he is by

1180
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,719
far the intern engine that drives the show.

1181
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: I would agree with you, but I think that the

1182
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,639
defense of uptick we've seen from them, and he's had

1183
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:02,239
better moments, specifically away from the ball as a defender,

1184
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,199
and Kaitlyn Cooper surprise surprise, also did a fantastic breakdown

1185
00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:06,320
over a back road.

1186
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 2: Look on my face, I'm so surprised that Kitlyn Cooper

1187
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:11,039
said smart for things.

1188
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, just transcending analysis from her once again about how

1189
00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:18,440
they're more just connected, yeah, and versatile defensively, And again

1190
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,320
I think Andrew Nemmar is a lot to do with that,

1191
00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:23,599
being able too if they're to sustain this and just

1192
00:55:23,679 --> 00:55:28,119
knowing they have a starting five that is slaughtering opponents

1193
00:55:28,119 --> 00:55:29,719
on the season, and I think there, I think their

1194
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,559
net raking is actually higher on the season than it's

1195
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:34,880
been since December. First, when you filter throughout carbs, I mean, regardless,

1196
00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:37,840
they're I think plus nineteen point eight per one hundred

1197
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,480
posessions with the starters on the court this season. That's

1198
00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:44,079
a big deal. And I don't I still struggle to

1199
00:55:44,119 --> 00:55:46,440
see what their ceiling is within the Eastern Conference is

1200
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,880
currently constructed. I think of the teams we've talked about

1201
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,480
so far, they are the most likely to just finish,

1202
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,119
stay inside the top six or even move up maybe

1203
00:55:54,159 --> 00:55:56,599
being what are they are? They like fourth as a recordinger,

1204
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,079
they're within striking distance of I mean, they have the

1205
00:55:59,079 --> 00:56:01,119
same losses as the matt They're right there with the Bucks.

1206
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:03,960
They have that type of ceiling. I'm gonna be curious too,

1207
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,119
and I owe Pacers fans an apology. It was one

1208
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,360
very cool to see how many people pointed out that

1209
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,000
we were wrong within the first few hours of it

1210
00:56:11,039 --> 00:56:13,480
going live, because it meant that people do listen to us.

1211
00:56:13,679 --> 00:56:16,480
But I got the Pacers pick pick commitments wrong, and

1212
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:19,280
how to remove it from the podcast we published over

1213
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,840
the over the weekend, just a brain fart. There is

1214
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,639
this a team that should be looking to do and

1215
00:56:23,679 --> 00:56:26,000
I mean, like even one of the things that you

1216
00:56:26,039 --> 00:56:28,239
would we would all have identified as their biggest need

1217
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,800
was like they need, especially with the injuries to Isaiah Jackson,

1218
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:34,599
like the Achilles injuries. James Wigman was all they didn't need,

1219
00:56:34,679 --> 00:56:36,159
like a different backup big option. And we kind of

1220
00:56:36,199 --> 00:56:39,800
laughed at the Thomas Bryant acquisition. It's not really funny

1221
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,400
anymore because he's playing well for them, and both him

1222
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,039
and Miles Turner, I think they've been put in better

1223
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,880
situations when you're watching them on defense opponents. Since December Firs,

1224
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,280
they're shooting under fifty five percent at the rim against

1225
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,800
both of them. So it's not just like Turner being

1226
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:55,960
sort of shut down Turner. It's like, Okay, Thomas Bryant,

1227
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,280
You're getting enough out of him. There is this I

1228
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:02,440
do a team historically, even though the Pacers went out

1229
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,519
and got Siakam last year and then traded a buddy Healed,

1230
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,440
I would expect them to stand pat But I'm also

1231
00:57:07,519 --> 00:57:10,320
kind of wondering because I think Jarres Walker has shown

1232
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,679
moments a lot of the times offensively, but he's shown

1233
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,800
defensive moments. Meddig Maths has shown defensive moments even when

1234
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,320
he's pulling off. I don't know how good a fit

1235
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:21,639
either of those two still are long term? Are those

1236
00:57:21,719 --> 00:57:24,239
you're not gonna I'd be shocked if they traded a

1237
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,960
twenty twenty seven conditional first round pick. Do you look

1238
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,719
at using one of those guys plus more money to

1239
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,480
go and get like another just wing it doesn't have

1240
00:57:32,559 --> 00:57:34,280
to be someone who's cracking your closing lineup, or do

1241
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:38,079
you look at this roster and say, motherfuckers Aarony Smith

1242
00:57:38,119 --> 00:57:40,679
hasn't played it since November first, like we're just gonna

1243
00:57:40,679 --> 00:57:43,480
get our mid season acquisition from him and we're just

1244
00:57:43,519 --> 00:57:46,320
gonna continue running like they've been that good over a

1245
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,159
long enough stretch to where I think maybe I don't

1246
00:57:48,159 --> 00:57:50,760
know if they should, but they've certainly earned the right

1247
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,559
to say, like, we're not gonna go out here and

1248
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:58,360
make any semi not even substantial but just semi material move.

1249
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:00,199
Speaker 2: Well.

1250
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm hashtag all star. I've seen the push to get

1251
00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:06,960
Tyr's Aliburton on there. I think he's been the most

1252
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,599
consistent pacer this year, and he's been yes to get

1253
00:58:10,639 --> 00:58:12,679
this version of him still, Like when you also have

1254
00:58:12,719 --> 00:58:16,199
Tyr's Haliburton playing like Tyry's Haliburton, that's huge for Indiana.

1255
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,079
We just hadn't mentioned him, so I needed to throw

1256
00:58:18,119 --> 00:58:18,400
his name.

1257
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,079
Speaker 2: No, you should absolutely name Pascal Siakam, because yeah, he's

1258
00:58:22,119 --> 00:58:24,880
worth it. I'm sitting here looking at the salaries because

1259
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,960
that's the thing you can talk about adding Bennettt Mathrin

1260
00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:30,440
or Jeris Walker to a deal. I'm kind of toying

1261
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,159
with something larger, Like if you combine their salaries, you're

1262
00:58:34,239 --> 00:58:39,119
at thirteen point five, and if you're add topping, that's

1263
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,000
probably thirteen. So what are we looking at thirteen?

1264
00:58:42,039 --> 00:58:45,159
Speaker 1: That's twenty six million and they're they're not whatever they do,

1265
00:58:45,639 --> 00:58:47,559
they're not going to pay the tax and they're within

1266
00:58:47,599 --> 00:58:49,320
i think two six seven dollars of the tack. So

1267
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,000
it's it's going to be an even money or less

1268
00:58:51,039 --> 00:58:51,920
trade anyway.

1269
00:58:51,639 --> 00:58:54,719
Speaker 2: Right for sure. But so so that's like, that's why

1270
00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:56,320
I'm trying to get the money up there. And it's

1271
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,079
not going to be a three for one. That's never

1272
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,239
like the roster spots issues is a thing. So you're

1273
00:59:01,239 --> 00:59:04,920
probably looking at the three for two deal. Question is who,

1274
00:59:05,079 --> 00:59:08,360
like what type of archetype should they should they kind

1275
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:09,480
of identify?

1276
00:59:09,719 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: I mentioned his name once or twice for them before,

1277
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,639
and you don't need all those contracts that us It

1278
00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:17,239
might actually be harder because he's making so little. Okay,

1279
00:59:17,519 --> 00:59:20,360
let's get heywo high Smith to Indiana. Like that's the

1280
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,320
like what are the heat gonna do following the Jimmy

1281
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,880
Butler stuff sort of ending and what does it take

1282
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,599
to get him though, because you're not giving up any

1283
00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:29,400
of like you're not giving up a future. First, you're

1284
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,679
not giving up bennecmather or Jaris Walker for Hayward high

1285
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:35,039
Smith alone, that would be just another maybe you want

1286
00:59:35,079 --> 00:59:36,800
them to be bigger up but like just another like

1287
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:38,840
really feisty guy to come in on the perimeter and

1288
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,039
ensure that you have different variable combinations where maybe if

1289
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:45,239
you don't want to lean on Ben Sheppard too much,

1290
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:46,719
like does that's just been another you use the word

1291
00:59:46,719 --> 00:59:49,280
feisty before, like talk about feisty on defense. Ben Shepard

1292
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,119
typifies that to a t. That could be an interesting

1293
00:59:52,199 --> 00:59:53,320
name for them. I just don't know.

1294
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,639
Speaker 2: It's it's a sicone name. I get it. I kind

1295
00:59:57,639 --> 00:59:59,400
of want to go juicier than that. I don't have

1296
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,599
a name, but I want to go a little juicier

1297
01:00:02,599 --> 01:00:02,920
than that.

1298
01:00:03,199 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler, how's that?

1299
01:00:05,519 --> 01:00:07,639
Speaker 2: And that is certainly juicy. I don't think that the

1300
01:00:07,679 --> 01:00:09,599
contracts are going to get you there. That's the thing,

1301
01:00:09,679 --> 01:00:13,199
Like we we have to find someone who is because

1302
01:00:13,239 --> 01:00:15,480
I think with the way that Halberton is playing right now,

1303
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,039
you know, you can talk about timelines all day long,

1304
01:00:18,519 --> 01:00:21,360
but he's like such a win now player because of

1305
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:23,199
the level of production. You can even say the same

1306
01:00:23,199 --> 01:00:25,519
about a twenty one year old woman Yamo, for example,

1307
01:00:25,519 --> 01:00:28,559
Like when you're playing at that level, you're automatically a

1308
01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:32,119
win now player. Bennetig Maatherrin, even though he's better this year.

1309
01:00:32,719 --> 01:00:35,119
I think it's still a couple of years away from being,

1310
01:00:35,199 --> 01:00:40,000
you know, a winning player, a fully functional, influential player.

1311
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,199
I think he's a couple years away from that. Certainly

1312
01:00:42,199 --> 01:00:45,000
you can say the same about Jaris Walker. I wouldn't

1313
01:00:45,039 --> 01:00:48,000
hate the Pacers basically being buyers and saying all right,

1314
01:00:48,079 --> 01:00:51,880
let's accelerate the youth movement. I wouldn't mind that, but

1315
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,679
it has to be with the right piece, and I'm

1316
01:00:53,719 --> 01:00:57,679
trying to identify what the right piece is. Hayward Heismith

1317
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,000
was not the first game off the top of my dome, though.

1318
01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I'm sort of resigned and reached the

1319
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,000
point even though I've probably bandied about different thoughts to it,

1320
01:01:06,039 --> 01:01:08,119
like they've been. They are one of the teams where

1321
01:01:08,159 --> 01:01:11,480
it's I have a great feel for what they've done lately,

1322
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,000
but I just feel like I need to contin continuously

1323
01:01:15,079 --> 01:01:18,000
adjust my impressions of them more than a lot of

1324
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,800
these other teams. I'm kind of at the point where

1325
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:22,519
I'm resigned to don't. I wouldn't have expected them to

1326
01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:24,480
do anything big, but I also don't know that they

1327
01:01:24,559 --> 01:01:26,880
need to at this point. I mean, like the Airnis

1328
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,199
Smith of it, all like, that's a really big absence

1329
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,360
to be navigating at this point.

1330
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 2: Can I ask you about Miles turn or are you

1331
01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:35,880
married to him in terms of the future?

1332
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,239
Speaker 1: No, I mean he's gonna be a free agent. This

1333
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,800
team has taxed payroll concerns, and if you want to

1334
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,159
keep and pay Benedicmathrin and Andrew Nemhard, who's extension will

1335
01:01:44,199 --> 01:01:47,440
kick in, as well as jars Walker. That's like, there's

1336
01:01:47,519 --> 01:01:50,639
only really one untouchable player on this roster's ply Tyres Halbert.

1337
01:01:50,639 --> 01:01:52,639
And I think for where they're going, you add Siakam

1338
01:01:52,679 --> 01:01:57,000
to that this season. But I just like, how big

1339
01:01:57,039 --> 01:01:58,679
of a swing do you want? I think it needs

1340
01:01:58,679 --> 01:02:01,239
to come? Like, who would be the upgrade? What are

1341
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,280
you trying to upgrade the big man spot using Turner?

1342
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,960
Because if you move him, your ceenter rotation is in shambles.

1343
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I would try to upgrade the center position.

1344
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,639
That was my idea, But I'm also struggling to find

1345
01:02:12,639 --> 01:02:14,679
a player. This is this is the thing. I feel

1346
01:02:14,679 --> 01:02:18,039
like this traded line specifically is a little bit poorly

1347
01:02:18,079 --> 01:02:21,039
tailored for the pacers. I don't think there's like that

1348
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,920
name out there that makes a lot of sense, So

1349
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,440
I'm trying to come up with like something creative here,

1350
01:02:26,519 --> 01:02:31,480
and I'm kind of failing because it I just don't

1351
01:02:31,559 --> 01:02:33,679
know which direction to go in here. There.

1352
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: I think there are players who would work, but a

1353
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,480
lot of them are probably just too expensive to a

1354
01:02:37,519 --> 01:02:40,639
point where I wouldn't advocate to go get them, and

1355
01:02:40,679 --> 01:02:42,400
they're not They're also not going to want to go

1356
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,199
get them or give up the level of equity that

1357
01:02:44,239 --> 01:02:45,000
you need.

1358
01:02:45,199 --> 01:02:49,199
Speaker 2: Right or they're perfectly salaried in a sense where you

1359
01:02:49,199 --> 01:02:51,639
don't really know who what kind of player you're gonna

1360
01:02:51,679 --> 01:02:55,199
get because they might be untested or whatever. It's you know,

1361
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:57,119
you know who. Actually, it would actually be fun that

1362
01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:01,000
the Hawks would never trade him. Yan Stree Hunter on

1363
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:01,920
this team would be fun.

1364
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,599
Speaker 1: Do you think he does enough defensively for them?

1365
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:06,679
Speaker 2: I don't think I care Dan?

1366
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,039
Speaker 1: All Right, there you go.

1367
01:03:09,239 --> 01:03:10,559
Speaker 2: I honestly don't think I care.

1368
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 1: They were mentioned. Granted I thought I was a Cam

1369
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,679
Johnson team. He fits everywhere I think going to Okay,

1370
01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:19,119
that doesn't like we don't care about the defense there.

1371
01:03:19,239 --> 01:03:21,920
I just I'm more so looking at I don't want

1372
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,239
someone who's gonna compromise their offense. But I would still

1373
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:28,480
prioritize maybe just like some real defensive size on the

1374
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,320
perimeter is what I look at this team and say that,

1375
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:33,440
especially for the postseason, I think that's what they need.

1376
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,119
And I don't know that a Cam Johnson satisfies that.

1377
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,039
Speaker 2: I keep returning to my main point that I've also

1378
01:03:44,159 --> 01:03:47,320
said on this show before, which is the team with

1379
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:48,960
the most points at the end of the game wins.

1380
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:50,960
Like you still you still need to put the ball

1381
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:53,400
in the baskets are and I think, but you can

1382
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:55,679
talk about wing defense, we can talk about post defense

1383
01:03:55,719 --> 01:03:58,960
all game long or all day long. He were in

1384
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,079
a game. So, but you need shot bakers, you need

1385
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:04,159
someone to spread the floor. You need to optimize Tyr's

1386
01:04:04,199 --> 01:04:07,519
Halliburton's offensive game first and foremost, and then you build

1387
01:04:07,519 --> 01:04:07,880
from there.

1388
01:04:08,599 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 1: I guess the issue there, though, is so Cam Johnson,

1389
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,519
are you are you giving up A twenty twenty seven

1390
01:04:14,559 --> 01:04:17,159
first for excuse me A twenty twenty eight first? What

1391
01:04:17,239 --> 01:04:18,519
is wrong with me? I keep getting their pick them

1392
01:04:18,559 --> 01:04:21,719
and it's wrong. I apologize Pacers fans, it's just in

1393
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,840
my head now, But look, you're not giving up that

1394
01:04:25,159 --> 01:04:27,039
just didn't first for Cam Johnson, I wouldn't think and

1395
01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:29,079
then I don't even know. That might be a deal

1396
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:31,159
where both teams say no, where it's okay, you're using

1397
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:34,039
Mathrin and Walker's the primary forms of compensation.

1398
01:04:36,599 --> 01:04:38,119
Speaker 2: What's that? Maybe not both?

1399
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 1: Do you think one of them, if one of them

1400
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,239
get you Cam Johnson? I mean I'd prefer it to

1401
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,360
be Mathrin at this point, just because I think there's

1402
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,880
probably some redundancies and counterintuitiveness to how he plays relative

1403
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,599
to how the Pacers want to play. I just I'd

1404
01:04:52,599 --> 01:04:56,320
be curious whether him alone is standalone value, especially given

1405
01:04:56,519 --> 01:04:57,679
now you have to figure out the rest of the

1406
01:04:57,679 --> 01:05:00,599
money from there. What that does? And I think that.

1407
01:05:00,599 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 2: Leads me to this, what's that chopping?

1408
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm not the Nets or not. I'd be shocked if

1409
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,320
they didn't Mathron and top in for Cam Johnson.

1410
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,599
Speaker 2: That would top has a lot of long term but

1411
01:05:10,679 --> 01:05:13,119
he's cheap though. Like the Nets. Here's the thing. The

1412
01:05:13,159 --> 01:05:16,679
Nets could take Toppin right, sprinkle him with something and

1413
01:05:16,719 --> 01:05:19,239
then turn him into a first in about six months.

1414
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: I mean he had three years left on his deal.

1415
01:05:22,519 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 2: I know, but like the Nets done it before, I

1416
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:25,639
wouldn't be shocked.

1417
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 1: I just would you think that. I mean, I would

1418
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,360
do that deal. If I was Indiana, would you still

1419
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:34,480
feel okay about there? Yeah? I mean Cam Johnson could

1420
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,480
play both front court spots really for them, they'd be fine.

1421
01:05:37,679 --> 01:05:40,599
I just don't view that as I if that's the

1422
01:05:40,679 --> 01:05:42,880
deal I'm doing it. I just don't know if that.

1423
01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:44,800
Like I'm the more I think about this team more,

1424
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,039
I'm like, I might just see what they have through

1425
01:05:47,079 --> 01:05:50,159
at this like what happens when Knees Smith comes back,

1426
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:51,960
and what do they look like, and then if they

1427
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,960
need to, they can reorient over the offseason. I think

1428
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,559
that's where I'm at with the Pacers, because I know

1429
01:05:57,599 --> 01:05:59,480
people have kind of viewed them as this paper tiger

1430
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,639
relative to how far they made it last season. They're

1431
01:06:02,679 --> 01:06:06,480
substantially better than that. And I would say the biggest discrepancy,

1432
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:10,280
it feels like, is I don't know that many people

1433
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,880
outside of who are watching like the Pacers fans and

1434
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,239
analysts like Andrew Nemhart is so good, and so it

1435
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,320
really is. On top of getting this version of Siakam

1436
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:23,280
and Halburton, that's absolutely huge for the Pacers.

1437
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 2: But that's he also presents an issue in terms of

1438
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,079
like his contract extension is going to kick in, so

1439
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,880
if you want to say, look, let's not worry about it.

1440
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:33,679
Let's see what happens in the summer where Miles Serner

1441
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,119
is going to be a free agent, you might be

1442
01:06:36,199 --> 01:06:39,599
looking at, oh, like the payroll goes up because of Emhart.

1443
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:41,840
That also means you might have to sacrifice a guy.

1444
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:44,719
That's why I think there's a little bit of pressure

1445
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,239
to might get something done now as to not go

1446
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,400
into the season with an expiring contract.

1447
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:54,639
Speaker 1: Well, we don't even go into the season with an

1448
01:06:54,639 --> 01:06:56,000
expiring contract.

1449
01:06:55,599 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 2: Because well well or well sorry not that's that probably

1450
01:06:59,079 --> 01:07:01,320
was bad wording for my point of view. I want

1451
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,119
to optimize this team, like maybe for the now, because like,

1452
01:07:04,199 --> 01:07:08,800
if you lose Miles Turner this summer, then you are

1453
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,599
going to get worse. You're looking at very few options

1454
01:07:12,639 --> 01:07:16,719
to make upgrades because of the androwdam Hearts contract extension

1455
01:07:16,719 --> 01:07:18,639
that's going to kick in. So maybe what I just

1456
01:07:18,679 --> 01:07:22,800
want to do before this trade deadline is optimize the

1457
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:26,559
current situation to see how far you know, as you know,

1458
01:07:26,679 --> 01:07:29,719
they can go. And then I at least I can

1459
01:07:29,719 --> 01:07:31,760
look myself in the mirror if I'm the Pacers and

1460
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:34,320
knowing going into the summer. Yeah, okay, we might lose Miles,

1461
01:07:34,599 --> 01:07:36,000
but we gave it a turn like we gave it,

1462
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,840
we gave it a shot. We went in for player X,

1463
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,599
like maybe that Cam Johnson or whoever, or Heywood, Heighsmith

1464
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:48,360
that who is going to optimize us. I just I

1465
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:49,880
don't think they can do nothing. It's kind of a

1466
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:50,480
taway here.

1467
01:07:51,119 --> 01:07:52,679
Speaker 1: I would want them to do something. But with Miles

1468
01:07:52,719 --> 01:07:55,719
Turners specifically, so who is the threat to take him

1469
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:57,719
in free? He's not taking mid level money right, and

1470
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,800
so the Nets why are they signing Miles Turner? Then

1471
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,039
after that, it's a bunch of if the Spurs could

1472
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,360
get cap space if they do this, the Wizards might

1473
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,159
be able to do it. If they do that. I

1474
01:08:09,159 --> 01:08:12,119
guess what you're saying is, shouldn't they then be I'm

1475
01:08:12,119 --> 01:08:14,559
actually this is what I'm thinking you're saying, So correct

1476
01:08:14,559 --> 01:08:16,640
me if I'm wrong. They should be more aggressive and

1477
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,239
looking to get off Toppin's money so that it allows

1478
01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:21,680
that emboldens them more. Do I guess pay what it

1479
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:23,039
takes to keep Turner?

1480
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of it. Like at consolidation trade, maybe

1481
01:08:26,039 --> 01:08:28,640
that's the better wording, Like I want them to consolidate

1482
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,680
contracts if that means getting off the topping contract, like

1483
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,279
just turning that into something else. And if the cost

1484
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:38,840
of that is Matherine or Jaris Walker, I'm probably okay

1485
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:39,079
with that.

1486
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 1: Who says no, if it's Mathriin and Obi Toppin for

1487
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:46,479
Kyle Kuzma, is it the pacers?

1488
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:54,039
Speaker 2: At this point, that's actually interesting. So Kyle kusmaan Pascal Siakam?

1489
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:56,720
Is there not quite a bit overlapped there?

1490
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: There's a ton of overlap. I actually would be interesting

1491
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,640
what Kyle Kuzma looks like tosively on this team though,

1492
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:05,239
And now that I'm saying it, if I'm talking about that,

1493
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:07,199
like it just stay away. Like if I'm trying to

1494
01:09:07,239 --> 01:09:10,319
like get the like, oh Kyle like defensive utility to

1495
01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:12,239
this team, if that's the primary reason to get him,

1496
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:14,239
I do I think he can be more plug and

1497
01:09:14,279 --> 01:09:15,079
play on a good team.

1498
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:18,159
Speaker 2: No, I think so too. And again I'm looking at

1499
01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:21,279
this with the offensive perspective, So I love that you're

1500
01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:24,840
taking the defensive approach. Kyle Kusmom could be fun if

1501
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,560
he's like pluck and play ish and he'll just say, okay,

1502
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:29,680
look I'll take the three. I'll lock down the three.

1503
01:09:30,119 --> 01:09:33,239
That's that's my position, and I'm just gonna take open threes.

1504
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:35,720
Speaker 1: And I will say even I would prefer Cam Johnson

1505
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:38,399
to him, but I just would. I would be fairly

1506
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,760
surprised if the Nets did math in and top in

1507
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:42,920
for for Cam Johnson.

1508
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:47,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't how teams look at at Mathrin though,

1509
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:49,640
like you and I are probably a little lower on

1510
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,520
him than a lot of people. I would imagine.

1511
01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 1: Probably Grant's even lower than I think the two of us.

1512
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,039
There's just yeah, I actually think if you gave him

1513
01:09:57,079 --> 01:09:59,800
more of a central role to the offense, I don't

1514
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,119
know if he's gonna have the level of playmaking to

1515
01:10:02,119 --> 01:10:04,479
do it, but you need a team that doesn't need

1516
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,720
him to get off the ball or make decisions as

1517
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:08,640
quickly as the Pacers. And I say that even like

1518
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:10,960
he's probably been better defensively and as a rebounder this

1519
01:10:11,039 --> 01:10:12,720
year than I ever expected from him.

1520
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yet I'm still not sold with three years

1521
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:17,439
in and well two and a half, and I'm I'm

1522
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:18,279
I'm also.

1523
01:10:18,279 --> 01:10:20,119
Speaker 1: This is so these are decisions you're willing to make

1524
01:10:20,119 --> 01:10:21,479
me because I guess my moral of the stories, like

1525
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,560
the Pacers, after kind of looking like they were like

1526
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,680
their window might have been ephemeral. They're back and they're good.

1527
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:29,760
I guess I'm more willing to kind of let it

1528
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,319
ride the way it is than you are. Is where

1529
01:10:31,319 --> 01:10:32,199
we're kind of different.

1530
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:35,319
Speaker 2: Because no, no, no, I'm not wired that way in I'm

1531
01:10:35,359 --> 01:10:37,359
willing to make trades. I'm willing to tinker.

1532
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,359
Speaker 1: I guess I feel like I'm looking at this too

1533
01:10:41,399 --> 01:10:43,600
closely as like, what are the Pacers actually gonna do?

1534
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:45,960
Rather than what they should do? It's probably what's going on.

1535
01:10:46,039 --> 01:10:48,399
Speaker 2: I think that that is definitely our distinction here. Yes,

1536
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:50,640
I'm very much looking at it what they what they

1537
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,479
should do if they look But you might also be

1538
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:57,600
right like hell again, assuming and we're knocking on wood

1539
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,520
for the third time in this podcast, that tires Taliburton

1540
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:04,319
is perfectly fine. And if he keeps up this level

1541
01:11:04,359 --> 01:11:06,960
of you know, twenty five eleven, twenty five to twelve,

1542
01:11:07,079 --> 01:11:09,520
whatever it is, like, if he just keeps playing that

1543
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:13,520
brain of basketball, I honestly don't care if they make

1544
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:16,359
that big trade because I think he is such a

1545
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:18,720
potent offensive system enough itself.

1546
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 1: All right, Well, that sounds a good time to move

1547
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,039
on to this next team, which is speaking of teams

1548
01:11:24,079 --> 01:11:26,279
that are very difficult to figure out. That'd be the

1549
01:11:26,279 --> 01:11:29,239
Miami Heat. Who uh, maybe when you listen to this,

1550
01:11:29,319 --> 01:11:31,520
Jimmy Butler will either not be on the team or

1551
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,239
will be back with the team. Who who? That knows more.

1552
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,800
How do you feeling about this team, which, mind you,

1553
01:11:38,319 --> 01:11:40,800
despite everything is above five hundred.

1554
01:11:41,039 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 2: Right, Well, we have to talk about their their situation, right,

1555
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,000
not just the Jimmy Butler situation, but they have to

1556
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,560
make the playoffs, like because again that draft pick is

1557
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,359
going to the twenty twenty six draft pick is going

1558
01:11:54,359 --> 01:11:57,680
to okay, see unprotected. If they don't, that is a

1559
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,000
major thing. So whatever they get back for Jimmy Butler

1560
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,239
has to make sense. It has to be a competitive

1561
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:08,279
return in whatever capacity. Does that mean that they should

1562
01:12:08,359 --> 01:12:11,119
just stick with him and risk losing him? That I

1563
01:12:11,159 --> 01:12:14,640
would lean towards either or like the one thing you

1564
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:18,680
can't do, And this seems very counterintuitive when you usually

1565
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:22,000
trade guys, especially guys with the caliber of Jimmy Butler.

1566
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,439
I would not take a rebuilding package like for for

1567
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,319
Jimmy Butler at this point because of the pick situation

1568
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:30,880
that they're in, because I could I suspect they could

1569
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:34,800
be really really bad next year. And then they relinquish

1570
01:12:35,239 --> 01:12:37,520
some high ass draft pick to the thunder. I mean,

1571
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:42,680
good luck, right exactly, but but like the Thunder especially,

1572
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:45,960
could you imagine could you just imagine the Thunder, like

1573
01:12:46,239 --> 01:12:50,159
perhaps after winning a championship this season, then next year

1574
01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:52,119
is like, oh, okay, we're gonna get like a top

1575
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:54,479
three draft pick, like god damn it, that will be.

1576
01:12:55,199 --> 01:12:58,760
That's that's almost unfair. So it like they have to

1577
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:01,680
think about self reservation here, and I think that is

1578
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:05,840
all about making the playoffs. Like I and again, what

1579
01:13:06,079 --> 01:13:09,079
just it felt wrong coming out of my mouth saying

1580
01:13:09,119 --> 01:13:11,600
do not accept rebuilding package because I do think that

1581
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,680
they're sort of there. I wouldn't even close the door

1582
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:16,680
on a Bam trade, not now, but in the offseason,

1583
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:18,920
like if there are to like fully blow it up.

1584
01:13:20,079 --> 01:13:22,119
But this year they just can't. They have to ride

1585
01:13:22,119 --> 01:13:24,560
the wave. They have to try to win every possible game.

1586
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,479
That's also why I'm kind of weirded out that they

1587
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,720
suspended Jimmy, Like I understand the thought process behind it,

1588
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,600
but like I know he's upset. I know this and that,

1589
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:38,039
but like at least you know what they are too,

1590
01:13:38,039 --> 01:13:41,079
But like I know, I know the situation I'm just saying,

1591
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:43,880
if you want to win games and try to avoid

1592
01:13:44,039 --> 01:13:46,880
the bad thing happening, you probably need to have the

1593
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:47,760
best team on the floor.

1594
01:13:48,119 --> 01:13:53,640
Speaker 1: So it's because you could probably start saying, but I

1595
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:58,560
think if they just hold on to him, do you

1596
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,159
think that he'll be a compliant enough campber for them

1597
01:14:01,199 --> 01:14:03,720
to make that at least hold the serve where they

1598
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:05,920
currently they're no strangers to get into the playoffs through

1599
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,560
the plan, and he at that point could view it

1600
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:11,119
as he's trying to play to create a market in

1601
01:14:11,159 --> 01:14:13,439
the summer in the sense of the Nets. I mean,

1602
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:16,079
maybe they would sign him, but like there you can't

1603
01:14:16,119 --> 01:14:18,039
count on that where it's, oh a team will dump

1604
01:14:18,079 --> 01:14:20,680
salary or give the heat stuff to set up an

1605
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:22,920
opt in in trade or something or a sign in trade,

1606
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:25,840
like because I've kind of just considered, oh, they can't

1607
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,720
keep him. But because of when granted were talking about

1608
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,560
the draft picks situation last week or whatever it was, right,

1609
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:33,600
I don't know that they're because look, Tyler Hero has

1610
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,840
been great this year, changing his shot profile, driving a

1611
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:38,720
lot of the offense. Their offense is still in the

1612
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,680
thirty third percent tile when he plays without Jimmy Butler,

1613
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:44,479
and when Jimmy Butler's on the court and Jimmy Butler's beenyway,

1614
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:46,920
Jimmy Butler's been all over the place on offense this year,

1615
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:48,479
and this just shows you. I think, look, he's older,

1616
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:51,239
he's thirty five. We've got and there's like sort of

1617
01:14:51,239 --> 01:14:54,840
the two games tattooed to memory before his suspension, Like

1618
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,199
they're in the eighty ninth percentile offense with Jimmy Butler's

1619
01:14:57,239 --> 01:14:59,079
on the court and they're winning minutes by five point

1620
01:14:59,119 --> 01:15:01,680
one points per one hundred session when he's on the court,

1621
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:03,520
and so can unders.

1622
01:15:03,279 --> 01:15:06,079
Speaker 2: That's that's something we have to remember in all of this. Yes,

1623
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:07,760
so it's just what.

1624
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 1: Do they do here? Then? Is it? Because I'm trying

1625
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:13,479
to even think of the teams that would be involved

1626
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:15,880
in the mix that could give them a package that

1627
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:20,880
could skew, if not win now, like win laterally, Like

1628
01:15:21,159 --> 01:15:23,520
does that make Beal then a more palatable option when

1629
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,000
you're dealing with Phoenix, especially if the Suns can go

1630
01:15:26,039 --> 01:15:27,520
around and say, hey, we're gonna get someone to give

1631
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:29,439
us a first round pick for Ryan Dunn, and we

1632
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:32,560
will give you two first round picks plus Bradley Beal

1633
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,920
for Jimmy Butler because we're top, I really do. What's

1634
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,199
happening in Phoenix is not Bradleey Balle's fault. I don't

1635
01:15:39,199 --> 01:15:41,239
know who needs to hear this, but it's not specifically

1636
01:15:41,279 --> 01:15:44,920
Bradley Beal's fault. If you put Bradley Beal on the Heat,

1637
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:46,800
I mean, I don't know what becomes with them defensively

1638
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:48,359
if you have to play him and Tyler hero together,

1639
01:15:48,399 --> 01:15:51,199
but him in a bigger role that like, does that

1640
01:15:51,279 --> 01:15:54,199
give you enough juice to like kind of maintain where

1641
01:15:54,199 --> 01:15:56,960
you are or is that not really doing it? Because look,

1642
01:15:57,600 --> 01:15:59,600
the reason to not trade for Bradley Beal to me

1643
01:16:00,159 --> 01:16:02,359
is the no trade clause. There's two years left on

1644
01:16:02,399 --> 01:16:04,960
his deal. It's too much money, but it's two years,

1645
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,439
so after a season he becomes this massive expiring chip.

1646
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:10,279
But it's the fact that he has control over where

1647
01:16:10,279 --> 01:16:12,199
he's going that's a that's not a small thing. I

1648
01:16:12,239 --> 01:16:14,039
want to make that clear. But I'm looking at as

1649
01:16:14,039 --> 01:16:17,239
the Heat where it's just you're kind of stuck in

1650
01:16:17,319 --> 01:16:20,239
stasis for the next two years anyway, because you don't

1651
01:16:20,279 --> 01:16:23,000
want to send me like even okay, let's say they

1652
01:16:23,079 --> 01:16:25,760
convey this year's pick like you still owe a lottery

1653
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:28,159
protected pick in twenty twenty seven. You want to be

1654
01:16:28,319 --> 01:16:30,520
kind of good then, because if you don't convey it,

1655
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:32,920
it does become unprotected in twenty twenty eight.

1656
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 2: Still, I see your Bradley Beal scenario and I race

1657
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:42,000
you a challenge trade of Jimmy Butler for Ceclovin.

1658
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:44,640
Speaker 1: The Bulls want to put Jimmy Butler on the.

1659
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 2: Look, it's the Chicago Bulls. It's a former bull that

1660
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:52,960
comes home. You already have the tack line. You know ready,

1661
01:16:53,439 --> 01:16:56,800
Look who's back the number twenty one jersey? You know

1662
01:16:57,039 --> 01:16:58,960
this is The Bulls are a PR team. They're not

1663
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,239
a basketball team. All about PR. That's that's who they are.

1664
01:17:03,079 --> 01:17:06,640
Speaker 1: So I'll say this, we could get into a bunch

1665
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:10,039
of different scenarios. I really don't see one where they

1666
01:17:10,079 --> 01:17:13,640
heat moved Jimmy Butler and are even remotely as dangerous

1667
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,520
as they might be with him. And do you think that,

1668
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:20,720
given the nature of the free agency market, the lack

1669
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:24,680
of space out there, that they could even themselves think

1670
01:17:25,319 --> 01:17:27,000
he's not He's not going to check out on the

1671
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,079
court completely. Maybe I'm just wrong here, but I'm maybe

1672
01:17:29,119 --> 01:17:30,760
they view it this way he's not going to check

1673
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,439
out on the court completely, and they'll figure it out

1674
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:35,880
over the summer in hopes of conveying this pick, and

1675
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:37,520
maybe he opts in and they move him that way,

1676
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,840
or it's a sign in trade. I am I wrong

1677
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:45,039
to think that that's becoming increasingly likely if the heat.

1678
01:17:45,399 --> 01:17:48,800
If they don't care about these pick protections, then it's

1679
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:51,600
a whole different conversation. But you have to care about

1680
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:52,479
these pick protections.

1681
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:54,279
Speaker 2: Oh, of course you do, and that's why I think

1682
01:17:54,279 --> 01:17:56,920
they're being cautious as they should be. I would be.

1683
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:59,079
I would be surprised if they took that approach because

1684
01:17:59,079 --> 01:18:02,239
I think it's risky, and I don't necessarily think pat

1685
01:18:02,319 --> 01:18:06,199
Riley is in that mindset. I do think Levine is

1686
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,279
just to wrap up that one is at least a

1687
01:18:09,319 --> 01:18:13,680
guy who gets you into like his type of vicinity

1688
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,439
of being more dangerous. Not that he gives you like

1689
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:19,479
the all around precess of Jimmy, obviously he doesn't. But

1690
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:23,039
at least you're getting a significant talent in return who

1691
01:18:23,119 --> 01:18:27,199
can help you maintain that uh that draft or not

1692
01:18:27,279 --> 01:18:29,800
may well put to get you into like the playoffs,

1693
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:33,520
So you make sure to not relinquish and unprotected, and again.

1694
01:18:33,319 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 1: That is my hi here. You know, you would just

1695
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,359
be perpetuating the zach Lavine narrative by doing that, though,

1696
01:18:38,399 --> 01:18:40,359
because he's not gonna be on a team that's mediocre

1697
01:18:40,399 --> 01:18:41,800
and everyone's gonna blame him for it.

1698
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,399
Speaker 2: That'd be bad. Well, you know what he does have, Bam.

1699
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:51,760
He's never had, you know, a center that's that good

1700
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,399
defensively or that good of a playmaker as well. I

1701
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:56,520
want to see that.

1702
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:58,119
Speaker 1: That's also what's tough about this team, though, is as

1703
01:18:58,159 --> 01:19:00,840
good as Bam is or might be, you still can't

1704
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,439
use him as your just offensive folk rum and expect

1705
01:19:03,439 --> 01:19:05,119
to win minutes against really good lineups.

1706
01:19:05,159 --> 01:19:08,119
Speaker 2: And it's probably where I'm at that point where with

1707
01:19:08,199 --> 01:19:10,159
the heat, I just want him to win this year

1708
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:13,279
as to avoid relinquishing that draftic and then they can

1709
01:19:13,319 --> 01:19:15,560
sort of load it just piece since the summer. I'm

1710
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:19,279
fine with that, But again, then the other draft pick

1711
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:22,199
scenario comes in return. This team is just in so

1712
01:19:22,279 --> 01:19:22,880
much trouble.

1713
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:26,239
Speaker 1: They also might look, I mean, and this would probably

1714
01:19:26,319 --> 01:19:28,520
lend more merit to your stance. They might just look

1715
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:30,640
at the way that Jim Hawkis Junior has been playing lately.

1716
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:32,960
He's been like really good, Like teams really seem to

1717
01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:35,039
just kind of figure out what he was trying to

1718
01:19:35,079 --> 01:19:37,000
do offensively, and it's like, oh, he's gonna make threes now,

1719
01:19:37,039 --> 01:19:39,399
and like they're getting good minutes from Hayward high Smith.

1720
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:42,720
Tyler Hero has just been really great this season. Terry Rosier.

1721
01:19:43,239 --> 01:19:46,239
That is gonna go down as unless there's a big

1722
01:19:46,239 --> 01:19:48,399
turnaround here. I don't even know why they're playing him

1723
01:19:48,399 --> 01:19:50,800
at this point. That's how bad that he's been for them.

1724
01:19:51,199 --> 01:19:53,279
So I do agree with you that they're in trouble,

1725
01:19:53,279 --> 01:19:55,600
but they might look upon themselves and say, like we

1726
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,800
just need that. Maybe it's breaking up Jimmy Butler to

1727
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:00,760
a couple of small That's why come back to Sacra

1728
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:02,279
right now, where if like the bones of it were

1729
01:20:02,279 --> 01:20:04,680
Demarta Rosenman, Kevin Herd her I mentioned this now three

1730
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:08,000
or four times. King Fan seemhem me against it, and

1731
01:20:08,039 --> 01:20:10,800
I understand why, But I also don't aside from Beale

1732
01:20:11,159 --> 01:20:12,960
and aside from just the Kings in theory who by

1733
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,000
the way, the Kings are playing really well under Doug

1734
01:20:15,079 --> 01:20:17,239
Christi for the most part, they might not be looking

1735
01:20:17,239 --> 01:20:18,960
to shake things up to that degree. Hitting the play

1736
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,199
on hit the play key on Alice Button works.

1737
01:20:21,199 --> 01:20:21,600
Speaker 2: Who knew?

1738
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:25,039
Speaker 1: But like, what is the other team? You mentioned Zach Lvine?

1739
01:20:25,119 --> 01:20:27,760
But like that feels like, well, then now there's going

1740
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:29,159
to be a third team in there, Like is Bradley

1741
01:20:29,159 --> 01:20:31,239
Beal somehow going to Chicago? I just don't see Jimmy

1742
01:20:31,239 --> 01:20:33,680
Butler going back to the Bulls. There's not a lot

1743
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:34,199
of team.

1744
01:20:34,119 --> 01:20:36,640
Speaker 2: Reason just to have a choice. If he's traded, he's traded,

1745
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:38,880
the Bulls would probably do it because then here's the thing.

1746
01:20:39,119 --> 01:20:41,119
If he leaves in the summer, the Bulls were just

1747
01:20:41,159 --> 01:20:43,680
off the Levine deal, then it just shortened everything and

1748
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:45,399
they save money.

1749
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:50,079
Speaker 1: Look, but is that that might be the most realistic scenario?

1750
01:20:50,159 --> 01:20:52,680
Like who's more likely? Because we know the Sons would

1751
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:54,800
make that deal, But it becomes the Heat more likely

1752
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:56,479
to take on Beale or the Heat more likely to

1753
01:20:56,479 --> 01:21:03,119
take on zach Lvine. He's younger and better and moral.

1754
01:21:03,319 --> 01:21:05,840
He also doesn't have no trade class. That's like, right,

1755
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:06,319
that's that.

1756
01:21:06,319 --> 01:21:10,079
Speaker 2: Factors in absolutely, But like, look, if if that's a

1757
01:21:10,119 --> 01:21:12,399
deal that's on the table, I'm not saying it is.

1758
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:14,520
That's just me coming up with nonsense.

1759
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 1: But would you do with it? As a you know

1760
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:22,039
he's going to be a rental for the most part. No, No,

1761
01:21:22,079 --> 01:21:24,439
I was gonna say, like the Pistons have fourteen million

1762
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:27,880
dollars in cap space, Like if it's Tim Hardaway Junior,

1763
01:21:28,199 --> 01:21:30,159
your cap space, what are we at there? Like twenty

1764
01:21:30,279 --> 01:21:33,000
nine million? And then would you give up? Like would

1765
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:34,960
Heat take to Bias Harris? Like do you just do that?

1766
01:21:35,199 --> 01:21:36,920
Just see see what happens?

1767
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:40,359
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that is that is dreadful.

1768
01:21:41,119 --> 01:21:41,319
Speaker 1: Oh.

1769
01:21:41,399 --> 01:21:43,840
Speaker 2: I would not I would not do that. I would

1770
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:46,479
not do that, like again, to see what happens. Bit,

1771
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,920
Like you know, that's it's funny because you and I

1772
01:21:50,039 --> 01:21:53,279
sometimes you'll you'll attack a team, you know, just kind

1773
01:21:53,279 --> 01:21:56,359
of safeguarding yourself a whole bit, and sometimes she would

1774
01:21:56,359 --> 01:21:59,279
just go balls to the walls. And we often like

1775
01:22:00,079 --> 01:22:02,279
take different approaches because I'll do the same things on

1776
01:22:02,319 --> 01:22:05,079
certain teams, like for the Heat specifically, because of this

1777
01:22:05,279 --> 01:22:10,479
draft pick situation, I'm like the most cautious dude. I'm

1778
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:13,800
being the most cautious that I can ever be because

1779
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,119
I don't want to go into this trade deadline move

1780
01:22:16,199 --> 01:22:20,039
Jimmy for something that might be trash and end up

1781
01:22:20,079 --> 01:22:22,760
having to fork over an unprotected pick.

1782
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:24,520
Speaker 1: And we would be saving the business of the ability

1783
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:26,479
to save you money right now, so you're cutting your

1784
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:29,800
tax bill. Timortowa Junior comes off the books. Tobias Harris

1785
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:34,319
has only a year left in about roughly half. Jimmy Butler, do.

1786
01:22:34,359 --> 01:22:38,880
Speaker 2: They help you right now? Which is the question? No? Right?

1787
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, like I know, but that's what I

1788
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:43,760
don't understand. I don't I would say if the Heat

1789
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:47,760
wind up trading Jimmy Butler, I would be shocked if

1790
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:48,960
they convey their pick this year.

1791
01:22:49,079 --> 01:22:51,079
Speaker 2: I mean, I just think Jimmy and Tobias Harris on

1792
01:22:51,079 --> 01:22:53,960
the same team, because then they're gonna have that inevitable

1793
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:57,199
discussion of when Jimmy of when Jimmy told the Sixers

1794
01:22:57,359 --> 01:22:59,600
you chose Tobias Harris over me. I need that. I

1795
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:00,520
need all the drama.

1796
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:02,079
Speaker 1: By the way, the Pistons could do that if they

1797
01:23:02,119 --> 01:23:04,439
were willing to. Knowing again that if you think, if

1798
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:06,560
you view Jimmy Butler as a rental, if you just said, hey,

1799
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:10,720
here's Isaiah Stewart and Tim Hardaway Junior, that works, you

1800
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:12,079
could just I mean, I don't know what you're doing

1801
01:23:12,119 --> 01:23:14,000
your big man rotation. At that point, are you signing

1802
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,039
someone off the scrap heap and Jimmy like he bite

1803
01:23:17,079 --> 01:23:18,800
compromise your space. And when we're talking about with Jay

1804
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:21,239
and Ivy out especially like imagine Jimmy but Jimmy Butler

1805
01:23:21,319 --> 01:23:23,920
works alongside Kid and then imagine Jimmy Butler in the

1806
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:29,439
non KD minutes. Yeah, if they ever play a sar

1807
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:31,359
Thompson and Jimmy Butler together, good luck.

1808
01:23:32,359 --> 01:23:35,640
Speaker 2: How many practices until he makes Jalen during cry.

1809
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 1: Well probably halfway through the first one con turn there

1810
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:45,560
is you don't want to like derail development or vibes

1811
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:47,439
just for like, oh we have it, Like what is Jimmy?

1812
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:49,760
Is he going to be a happy camper if he's there?

1813
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:52,279
I mean maybe he would be, because you don't want to, like,

1814
01:23:52,319 --> 01:23:54,319
you don't want to become the James Harden where's there's

1815
01:23:54,319 --> 01:23:57,239
only one team that's willing to pay you type deal.

1816
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,800
So I mean, if I were the Pistons, if it's

1817
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:02,520
Tobias Harrison, Tim Mardway Junior, I just do it. I

1818
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:04,560
understand why the heat would nefit's Isaiah Stewart and Tim

1819
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,560
Mardway Junior. And on the Pistons, Yeah, maybe they're seconds involved.

1820
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:09,399
I might have to think about it. You can probably

1821
01:24:09,399 --> 01:24:13,479
still talk me just but I this is where I'm

1822
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:15,279
at with the heat is. I'm having a tough time

1823
01:24:15,319 --> 01:24:17,600
evaluating them because I'm so impressed by some of the

1824
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:19,960
things they've done, even by the way that jim Hawkas

1825
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:22,279
has been playing, I just don't see that. Like, I

1826
01:24:22,319 --> 01:24:24,359
don't know what the return is on a Jimmy Butler trader,

1827
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:25,800
even if you told him to take his ball and

1828
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:28,000
go home and just not be with the team for

1829
01:24:28,039 --> 01:24:30,439
the rest of the year. I'm almost warming up to

1830
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:32,039
the idea that if you want the pick to convey,

1831
01:24:32,119 --> 01:24:33,560
you might just need to ride this out.

1832
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 2: Look. And again, this goes back to your point, like

1833
01:24:38,039 --> 01:24:41,279
if you you were asking, could there be a scenario

1834
01:24:41,319 --> 01:24:44,039
were in Jimmy just kind of accepts, all right, look,

1835
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:49,039
let's just wait it out until yes summer, if that happens,

1836
01:24:49,079 --> 01:24:52,279
I fully agree with you. Like, if Jimmy and Pat

1837
01:24:52,399 --> 01:24:55,479
just has this Kumbaya moment for like just too great

1838
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:59,640
to play nice for the next six months, sure that

1839
01:25:00,239 --> 01:25:04,880
be the best possible solution for all parties involved. Does

1840
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:08,039
Jimmy Butler, despite being forty five hat level, have that

1841
01:25:08,159 --> 01:25:10,720
level of maturity? I don't know.

1842
01:25:12,319 --> 01:25:14,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I just don't even know what some

1843
01:25:14,079 --> 01:25:17,159
people suggested, like could Denver do it? And like that's

1844
01:25:17,199 --> 01:25:21,039
all sorts of complicated because right like, even if they're

1845
01:25:21,039 --> 01:25:23,359
gonna include a conditional twenty thirty one pick, the Heat

1846
01:25:23,359 --> 01:25:25,680
are gonna have to take on Zeke Najy and then

1847
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:28,439
it's Michael Porter juniors because Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon

1848
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:30,439
can't be traded. And if you're looking at a Heat

1849
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:32,439
team with I'm just again you have to go through

1850
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,159
more specific framework. But if you're the Heat, and maybe

1851
01:25:35,199 --> 01:25:37,199
you could even get like a Julian Strowther out of that,

1852
01:25:37,359 --> 01:25:39,319
I don't think they're gonna include Peyton Watson or Christian

1853
01:25:39,319 --> 01:25:41,159
Brown for Jimmy Butler. I'd be pretty shocked.

1854
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,600
Speaker 2: Man. I'm not even that high on the Trader two.

1855
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:47,000
I feel like you and I we are we're evaluating

1856
01:25:47,079 --> 01:25:50,319
Jimmy differently. I like, I just think there's so many

1857
01:25:50,399 --> 01:25:53,439
things going against him right now that I, like Julian,

1858
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:56,520
I wouldn't even consider adding Julian Strawther. I'm I have

1859
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:57,319
a hard time Mehan.

1860
01:25:57,319 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 1: You were relinquishing first sum, You're sitting here then telling

1861
01:26:00,359 --> 01:26:02,560
that they shouldn't accept all these packages for him. So

1862
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:04,199
isn't the moral of the story then that they should

1863
01:26:04,279 --> 01:26:06,600
just keep him and figure this out over the summer.

1864
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:08,239
I mean, I think we wind up moving him, to

1865
01:26:08,239 --> 01:26:11,159
be clear, but I agree that there's trade value. I

1866
01:26:11,159 --> 01:26:13,840
probably maybe I higher on his value or I don't

1867
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:15,840
think he has a ton of leverage. But I think

1868
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:19,600
Jimmy Butler still an All NBA caliber player, even though

1869
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:21,159
I wouldn't put him on an All NBA team this

1870
01:26:21,199 --> 01:26:25,000
season for some obvious reasons. But then, like, what deal

1871
01:26:25,039 --> 01:26:26,640
were the Heat? If his values at an all time

1872
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:28,359
low and you're trying to get a return that could

1873
01:26:28,399 --> 01:26:31,279
keep you in the playoff hunt, what is the return then?

1874
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:33,439
Speaker 2: So the one I came up with when I wrote

1875
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:36,840
my article over at Yahoo, I'm gonna spoil it. God,

1876
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:39,479
damn it, damn that was quick on it That you

1877
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:44,119
your jim That was Jimmy Alec Burks for Keldon Johnson,

1878
01:26:44,239 --> 01:26:45,640
Sat Collins and trade Jones.

1879
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:49,000
Speaker 1: Why are the Heat doing that?

1880
01:26:50,079 --> 01:26:54,199
Speaker 2: Look, I'm I'm again, I'm I wrote this exclusively off

1881
01:26:54,199 --> 01:26:57,800
the prism of we want to preserve, you know, our

1882
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:02,199
flexibility in terms of the draft pick Kelton, Johnson, Sack Collins,

1883
01:27:02,239 --> 01:27:06,840
trade Jones at least keeps you somewhat somewhat competitive. And look,

1884
01:27:07,159 --> 01:27:09,399
like I also outlined in the piece, if there are

1885
01:27:09,399 --> 01:27:12,039
better offers out there, for sure, go grab it. But

1886
01:27:12,319 --> 01:27:14,640
look at all the factors that are playing against the

1887
01:27:14,680 --> 01:27:17,199
Heat here in this one. Jimmy's age first and foremost

1888
01:27:17,199 --> 01:27:21,279
the secondarily, you know all the circus around him. Yet again,

1889
01:27:21,399 --> 01:27:23,279
that is going to turn a lot of teams off.

1890
01:27:24,319 --> 01:27:26,119
The fact that you don't really know if he's a

1891
01:27:26,159 --> 01:27:29,520
rental or not because of the player option. So like,

1892
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:33,680
his trade value is not, in my opinion, where it

1893
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,600
would have been without all of those items. Could the

1894
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,439
Heat get better than the trade that I suggested? Maybe?

1895
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:43,159
Maybe not. Again, whenever we talk about Jimmy in a

1896
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:47,760
broader sense, everything we read is Jimmy Butler's value is

1897
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:51,239
not particularly high. That has come from several sources over

1898
01:27:51,279 --> 01:27:54,079
the course of several days even weeks now, And so

1899
01:27:54,159 --> 01:27:56,880
I'm trying to gage it in a way where Okay,

1900
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,960
if like let's say the Heat get Sack Collins, Kelton Johnson,

1901
01:28:00,039 --> 01:28:02,439
Trey Jones, right, I think I guess if.

1902
01:28:02,319 --> 01:28:05,319
Speaker 1: You replaced the Terry Rozier minutes with Trey Jones minutes.

1903
01:28:06,359 --> 01:28:09,079
Speaker 2: And Kelton is still like Kelton's contract. Like I know,

1904
01:28:09,199 --> 01:28:12,560
Kelton is fine, he's just he's fine, But like he's

1905
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:14,840
still he's better than his contract. You can flip that,

1906
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:17,039
you can even rehab his value. He might actually even

1907
01:28:17,079 --> 01:28:19,520
benefit from going to Miami. I think they're a little

1908
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:21,840
bit more physically driven than the spursars. I think his

1909
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:23,920
playing style would work there more than he does in

1910
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:26,640
San Antonio. Sack Collins is better than what he's played

1911
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:29,680
this year. Like he's he's just been a sacrificial lamb

1912
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:32,119
for the Spurs, finally realizing, oh yeah, Wemby is the

1913
01:28:32,159 --> 01:28:34,479
center and he should not play with the center. So

1914
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:37,279
Sack Collins has been playing mob up duty and then

1915
01:28:37,399 --> 01:28:40,279
when he comes in it's he's obviously not Wempy and

1916
01:28:40,319 --> 01:28:42,600
that that contrast is pretty stark. He's a good player.

1917
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:44,560
I actually like Sack Collins. I think if a team

1918
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:47,199
trades swore him under the radar, he could have a

1919
01:28:47,239 --> 01:28:49,760
research in elsewhere. Like again, there are a lot of

1920
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:53,600
ifs here, and I fully concede that for Heat fans

1921
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:55,720
that are like, oh my god, I'm gonna revisit my

1922
01:28:55,800 --> 01:29:00,399
lunch on this one. Fair, that's totally fair. But what

1923
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:03,279
deals are realistically out there. Like again, if the sec

1924
01:29:03,359 --> 01:29:06,239
Lavian deals, yeah, I go that one too, Like obviously,

1925
01:29:06,279 --> 01:29:09,760
I go for the higher upside, the higher production level.

1926
01:29:10,239 --> 01:29:13,119
I just have no freaking clue as to what is

1927
01:29:13,239 --> 01:29:15,720
legitimately available for Junu Butler out there, right.

1928
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 1: And I don't disagree with you on that. I'n't even

1929
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:20,319
saying that trade is bad, knowing what we know about

1930
01:29:20,359 --> 01:29:23,000
Jimmy Butler, his lack of leverage, I just don't if

1931
01:29:23,199 --> 01:29:25,560
we're looking at everything through ken they convey this pick.

1932
01:29:26,319 --> 01:29:28,880
You've yet to outlay an altern I don't all the

1933
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:31,439
ones you mentioned. I think probably Zach Levine would give

1934
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:34,279
them the best chance of like let but I also

1935
01:29:34,439 --> 01:29:36,520
liked the appeal of you did this with the Spurs trade.

1936
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:39,079
If you dealt with the Kings, maybe they like Demart

1937
01:29:39,159 --> 01:29:42,359
Rosen and Kevin Herder turning Jimmy Butler in like two

1938
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:46,039
or three rotation players. There's appeal there. I mean, is

1939
01:29:46,079 --> 01:29:48,079
there something to be done with if they were willing

1940
01:29:48,119 --> 01:29:50,439
to take on it have to be like a mega trade.

1941
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:53,640
But you take on I guess the extra year of CJ.

1942
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:56,199
McCollum and then trade brandon Ingram as well. Is there

1943
01:29:56,279 --> 01:29:58,279
something to just like this New Orleans say, or we're

1944
01:29:58,279 --> 01:30:00,560
getting off of CJ. Mccoums money, let's bring to me

1945
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:02,520
but here for the but then you're ruining your tank

1946
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:04,880
that you becuse Jimmy Butler's gonna help you win games.

1947
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:06,279
So that's probably not the way to go.

1948
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I see though it's the Pelicans and

1949
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:14,760
they're they're grotesquely bad. Like does he that they does

1950
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:16,800
he even have time to turn that ship around?

1951
01:30:17,279 --> 01:30:19,560
Speaker 1: No, there's no like the Pelican season is over, it's

1952
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:21,800
right exactly, And so you don't want to put yourself

1953
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:25,239
in bulls territory where you're not like they're they're eight

1954
01:30:25,279 --> 01:30:27,239
and thirty two as we record this, and so they

1955
01:30:27,279 --> 01:30:30,279
are how many losses outside of a playing spot. Let's

1956
01:30:30,279 --> 01:30:33,479
even see there are thirteen losses outside the play in tournament.

1957
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's done. It's done.

1958
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:38,479
Speaker 1: So if they were thinking, if he was willing to

1959
01:30:38,239 --> 01:30:40,760
go there and get paid, that might be somewhat interesting.

1960
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:44,159
Speaker 2: But I don't. But but I think to your point,

1961
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:48,239
I would agree with you that the best alternative here

1962
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:52,399
is to have a Jimmy Butler pat Riley make up

1963
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:55,840
session where they just kind of say, okay for the

1964
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:59,119
rest of the season. Let's just play nicies that you're

1965
01:30:59,119 --> 01:31:02,560
absolutely because but is the best talent outgoing talent in

1966
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:06,279
any of these traits. He just is. So if the

1967
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:09,720
Heat want to avoid the draft picks scenario, yes, that

1968
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:10,880
would be the primary one.

1969
01:31:11,199 --> 01:31:14,520
Speaker 1: Let's talk about another team, the Philadelphia seventy six ers,

1970
01:31:14,560 --> 01:31:16,800
who many did not peg as the fringe playoff team.

1971
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:20,039
We also talked about them with the Contenders. I don't

1972
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:23,000
what are we supposed to say here other than do

1973
01:31:23,079 --> 01:31:26,439
you still view them? As as we're recording this, they

1974
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:28,880
are outside of the play to the eleventh plays in

1975
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:31,239
the East. Now again, that also just means that their

1976
01:31:31,239 --> 01:31:34,239
four losses out of a home court advantage spot, they

1977
01:31:34,279 --> 01:31:37,439
have decidedly won the minutes that the Big three have played.

1978
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:40,079
Paul George is playing better of late, but the Big

1979
01:31:40,079 --> 01:31:42,880
three have played four hundred and four possessions together. Mort

1980
01:31:43,119 --> 01:31:46,560
they are also just a barely net positive. This is

1981
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:50,319
per PBP stats. When they have two of their Big

1982
01:31:50,359 --> 01:31:52,479
three on the court through outscoring opponents by like point

1983
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:55,239
three to two points per one hundred posessions during their

1984
01:31:55,239 --> 01:31:57,960
two star lineups. So any sort of at least two

1985
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:00,399
of their stars, that's so that's including a big three minutes.

1986
01:32:01,159 --> 01:32:04,279
You've gotten some better shooting performances of late from some

1987
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:06,279
including Paul George, who is still I think he's at

1988
01:32:06,319 --> 01:32:09,600
like sub thirty two percent on open and wide semi

1989
01:32:09,640 --> 01:32:11,840
open and wide open threes for the season, but he's

1990
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:14,000
still like I think he's shown some shock creation juice.

1991
01:32:14,279 --> 01:32:16,960
The defense has been pretty good this year. They're even

1992
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:20,239
above average when going up against top ten offenses. The

1993
01:32:20,359 --> 01:32:22,800
Sixers to me, are just all over the place. They

1994
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:25,720
have trade assets, they have outgoing money you can just

1995
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:27,880
lean on. Well, Joel Embiid has to be healthier at

1996
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:30,399
some point, right we know Jared McCain has now done

1997
01:32:30,399 --> 01:32:33,000
for the year. You've gotten a lot of like, You've

1998
01:32:33,039 --> 01:32:35,439
gotten a lot of run out of Gershan Yabuseli, who

1999
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:39,720
has been again unplanned, your best most consistent backup big

2000
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:44,720
or your best most available consistent big. In general, what

2001
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:48,520
do we make of these Philadelphia seventy six ers more you.

2002
01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:52,800
Speaker 2: Mean the Philidel dep dep Leah seventy six ers.

2003
01:32:53,359 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a typo up there. What's up?

2004
01:32:55,239 --> 01:32:57,279
Speaker 2: I love it because that is so fitting. That is

2005
01:32:57,279 --> 01:33:00,119
the that is the perfect symptom of this season from

2006
01:33:00,119 --> 01:33:03,600
the Philadelphia seventy six ers that I have no faith

2007
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:06,680
in this team whatsoever, like even if they like again,

2008
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:09,159
I've reached that point, and I've said this on this

2009
01:33:09,199 --> 01:33:11,840
show as well. With Joan Embiide. I am at that

2010
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:14,520
point with him where I just cannot rely on him

2011
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:17,600
at any point anymore, especially in the playoffs. And that

2012
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:20,239
is what they were built for playoffs success. That was

2013
01:33:20,279 --> 01:33:22,359
what they That was their whole spiel, that was their

2014
01:33:22,399 --> 01:33:25,600
whole thing. So I think it's so perfect and that

2015
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:27,760
that there's a TYPEO in there because that is this

2016
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:30,000
is the season from health, and that is this season

2017
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:32,880
has been a typo for them. Paul George is only

2018
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:35,039
going to get older, he is going to get less

2019
01:33:35,039 --> 01:33:38,680
effective as the ages because he's also been an injury

2020
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:43,199
wreck for years and years and years. Tyrese Maxi felt

2021
01:33:43,199 --> 01:33:45,239
the struggle of being, you know, the number one guy.

2022
01:33:45,319 --> 01:33:47,760
He went down as well because he was just overburdened,

2023
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:49,840
over attaxed, whatever, And that is probably going to be

2024
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:52,159
a symptom as well moving forward. If guys aren't going

2025
01:33:52,159 --> 01:33:54,640
to step up. Jared McCain is out for the rest

2026
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:58,840
of the year, that's not great. I mean, I'm not

2027
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:03,239
afraid of this team, regardless of whoever. I like every

2028
01:34:03,239 --> 01:34:06,239
team we talked about today. If if I'm leading one

2029
01:34:06,279 --> 01:34:08,119
of those teams, I'm looking at Philly and like, no,

2030
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:08,880
not worry.

2031
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that you would say you don't think

2032
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:13,920
they could be the most dangerous of the East fringe

2033
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:18,039
playoff teams, this is a pretty big indictment, Yes, because

2034
01:34:18,079 --> 01:34:20,119
they should be. I mean, first of all, they shouldn't

2035
01:34:20,119 --> 01:34:22,279
want them to be a fringe playoff team based off

2036
01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:24,640
what they You know, you sign Paul George, you extend

2037
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:28,119
Joelle embiid, You've Tyres Maxi his money, Jared McCain being

2038
01:34:28,119 --> 01:34:31,800
a nice fine I is there is there any way

2039
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:34,640
you would feel better about this team? And so I

2040
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:36,600
think you're looking at it and you could say, I

2041
01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:39,880
think you've gotten like better offensive performances than you were

2042
01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:42,920
getting from Kayla Martin to start the year. Caleybridge has

2043
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:44,520
been a little all over the place, but you still

2044
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:47,000
know what you have in him, Like, is there anything

2045
01:34:47,039 --> 01:34:49,039
you It just it's always gonna come back to the health.

2046
01:34:49,199 --> 01:34:52,479
But so if you're them, do you look at these

2047
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:55,680
assets that you've stockpiled and you have some tradable salaries,

2048
01:34:55,960 --> 01:34:58,199
are you now less likely to make any sort of

2049
01:34:58,279 --> 01:35:01,680
move because of I mean, we had the longer term

2050
01:35:01,680 --> 01:35:04,079
picture was always gonna be fuzzy with them, but now

2051
01:35:04,079 --> 01:35:05,800
the short term picture is muddied.

2052
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:10,039
Speaker 2: Well. I mean, look, I think they have one or

2053
01:35:10,039 --> 01:35:13,279
two ways to go here. One they can just realize,

2054
01:35:13,399 --> 01:35:15,720
oh my god, this did not work. We have to

2055
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:19,640
start over from scratch and that's it. Or they can

2056
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:23,119
double down and say, look, let's add to our current pieces,

2057
01:35:23,159 --> 01:35:26,680
let's keep buying, and that would be probably the most

2058
01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:29,600
logical approach, because you want to maintain Joel Empiide in

2059
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:31,960
a Philadelphia seventy six ers uniform, like, let's be real,

2060
01:35:32,039 --> 01:35:34,640
that's that's probably one of your main preogatives. You want

2061
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:37,399
to keep Tyry's Maxie around. You want to, I guess,

2062
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:40,279
keep Paul georyce around, at least for now, because what

2063
01:35:40,359 --> 01:35:42,079
kind of value do you get if you shop him.

2064
01:35:42,119 --> 01:35:43,640
You're not going to get a player better than him,

2065
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:44,720
especially at that salary.

2066
01:35:45,079 --> 01:35:47,399
Speaker 1: I thought about it, Paul George for Jimmy Butler figure

2067
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:49,479
it out like the rest of the framework, challenge trade.

2068
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:51,399
But I don't know why Miami would want to take

2069
01:35:51,439 --> 01:35:54,239
on the point deal but not pay Jimmy Butler over

2070
01:35:54,279 --> 01:35:55,039
a shorter term.

2071
01:35:55,159 --> 01:36:00,399
Speaker 2: So is Paul George argubly like, what did where does

2072
01:36:00,399 --> 01:36:03,279
that rank in terms of like contract quality around the league?

2073
01:36:03,319 --> 01:36:03,720
Do you think?

2074
01:36:04,079 --> 01:36:04,520
Speaker 1: Not high?

2075
01:36:04,840 --> 01:36:05,720
Speaker 2: Probably still right?

2076
01:36:06,239 --> 01:36:08,039
Speaker 1: I probably trust him? Do you trust him more than

2077
01:36:08,159 --> 01:36:10,279
Jamal Murray contract that'll kick in after this year?

2078
01:36:13,199 --> 01:36:17,840
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that is so depressing because I actually agree

2079
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:20,800
that there's like that's a conversation, that's a real conversation

2080
01:36:21,199 --> 01:36:25,439
Jamal Murray Man, that's oh, I really side note, I

2081
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:28,640
really hope to see him get back to form, like

2082
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:32,680
I know he's played better of late. But yeah, because again,

2083
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:34,760
Paul George, I think his contract is right up there

2084
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:37,479
among some of the worst. I don't think that's gonna

2085
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:40,119
be easy to pivot off off any way, shape or form.

2086
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:43,600
And if it's not, that sort of kind of negates

2087
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:47,640
the whole. Hey, let's take an approach of rebuilding starting over.

2088
01:36:48,119 --> 01:36:50,880
I know our our mutual good friend Brian, he's been

2089
01:36:50,920 --> 01:36:52,800
in my tms as well all the time, Like, maybe

2090
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:56,119
they'll maybe they'll get a good trade for for PG

2091
01:36:56,319 --> 01:36:59,079
before the trend headline good luck buddy.

2092
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:01,600
Speaker 1: A team where and would they take Bradley Beal back?

2093
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:04,199
Would the Sons considered doing that. They probably would, I

2094
01:37:04,239 --> 01:37:05,960
mean the Sons anyway, I don't know. I don't know

2095
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:08,000
if the Sixers would be. Okay, Bradley be on a

2096
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:09,680
no trade clause, but we only have them for two

2097
01:37:09,680 --> 01:37:11,840
more years, only to get out from the final year

2098
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:14,520
of Paul George's deal. I guess you're getting the Sun's pick.

2099
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:17,359
Do you think about it?

2100
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:20,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'll think about that one at least because

2101
01:37:21,279 --> 01:37:23,279
I mean, yeah, it'd be a small backcourt, but I

2102
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:27,800
don't even care because that could theoretically be so offensive ptent,

2103
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:31,720
offensively potent, especially when you have Jared McCain coming back

2104
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:34,560
from injury next year. So you run this three guard

2105
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:42,199
lineup of McCain Maxy Beal. That's got some juice.

2106
01:37:41,359 --> 01:37:46,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. This team is all sorts of All

2107
01:37:46,079 --> 01:37:48,000
these teams are kind of I feel like we'll have

2108
01:37:48,079 --> 01:37:49,399
to get we have the one more team to talk

2109
01:37:49,399 --> 01:37:52,560
about quickly after this, But or do we Is this

2110
01:37:52,560 --> 01:37:54,039
the last one? Is this team number six?

2111
01:37:54,159 --> 01:37:54,239
Speaker 2: Oh?

2112
01:37:54,279 --> 01:37:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is run the last one. Shout out to us.

2113
01:37:56,319 --> 01:37:58,800
But taking a two hour podcast talk about six teams,

2114
01:37:59,279 --> 01:38:02,760
they should be if we're just asking in a vacuum, right, Okay,

2115
01:38:04,039 --> 01:38:06,079
these teams get to the plan, which is what you're

2116
01:38:06,079 --> 01:38:07,520
talking about. For a lot of them, I don't even

2117
01:38:07,560 --> 01:38:10,720
because the thing with Philly is we could sit here

2118
01:38:10,760 --> 01:38:12,760
and say all these things, maybe they don't make any move,

2119
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:16,279
They just stan pat. If you just catch lightning in

2120
01:38:16,359 --> 01:38:19,880
a bottle for any of these teams, doesn't Philly by

2121
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:22,960
default have the highest ceiling in the postseason. Then if

2122
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:25,119
you catch where Paul George and Juell Andbiad are healthy,

2123
01:38:25,319 --> 01:38:27,079
if they just get to the play in, isn't that

2124
01:38:27,119 --> 01:38:28,079
somewhat terrifying?

2125
01:38:28,520 --> 01:38:31,159
Speaker 2: Or no, yes, of course, But like you're prefacing this

2126
01:38:31,279 --> 01:38:33,960
by saying lightning in a bottle, you're basically presenting a

2127
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:36,520
Hollywood script like basically say, all right, we have to

2128
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:40,239
do the impossible. Then, isn't an obvious You're sure it is,

2129
01:38:40,319 --> 01:38:42,479
But like, how likely is it for this team to

2130
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:46,159
catch lightning in a bottle? I mean, honestly, that's the thing.

2131
01:38:46,239 --> 01:38:49,359
Like I also think I've just been beaten down by

2132
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:51,760
history on this team. I think that's part of it,

2133
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:55,600
like a very I'm very affected, biased, whatever you want

2134
01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:58,359
to call it in that regard, Like I just whenever

2135
01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:01,279
this team has looked good, they look ready we're looking

2136
01:39:01,359 --> 01:39:03,319
at them and going, oh, this might be the year

2137
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:06,720
Big Phila goes down. Something else happens, like he breaks

2138
01:39:06,760 --> 01:39:09,840
his face for the sixty fifth time, Like something happens,

2139
01:39:10,319 --> 01:39:15,359
and unfortunately for MB it's almost always outside of his control,

2140
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:20,520
so it's like it's really tough. Eventually, I think they're

2141
01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:22,439
gonna have that moment where they have to look to

2142
01:39:22,439 --> 01:39:24,119
themselves in the mirror and figure out, like, what the

2143
01:39:24,119 --> 01:39:26,279
hell is our project even at this point, Like what

2144
01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:30,239
are we trying to achieve? Is that moment now? Probably not,

2145
01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:32,520
but I wouldn't at least go and double down and

2146
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:34,720
go in and make like a proactive move like the

2147
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:37,760
building is good though, because I don't think that's like

2148
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:41,000
doubling down. I think you're just sort of trading one

2149
01:39:41,119 --> 01:39:44,079
issue from not for another issue. But like you get

2150
01:39:44,119 --> 01:39:45,800
a guy in who can sort of mimic some of

2151
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:50,720
that production, Like it's fine. I wonder when they'll read

2152
01:39:51,479 --> 01:39:54,640
they'll realize it's time to hit the big red recent button.

2153
01:39:55,119 --> 01:39:56,199
I wonder when that time is.

2154
01:39:57,239 --> 01:40:00,840
Speaker 1: I'd be shocked if it comes before the twenty offseason.

2155
01:40:02,119 --> 01:40:05,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one more year, that feels kind of right. Yeah,

2156
01:40:06,119 --> 01:40:07,079
So of all.

2157
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:09,840
Speaker 1: These teams we talk about Atlanta, we talked about talked

2158
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:15,319
about Chicago, Detroit, Miami, Philadelphia. What is the team I missed?

2159
01:40:15,399 --> 01:40:17,760
What's the what's the one that I'm forgetting? Oh, Indiana?

2160
01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:20,239
Of all those teams, who do you views the most

2161
01:40:20,319 --> 01:40:23,319
dangerous this season? And it could be I'm not even

2162
01:40:23,359 --> 01:40:25,079
saying like maybe should be the most like if some

2163
01:40:25,119 --> 01:40:27,079
of these teams make change, I think most of them,

2164
01:40:27,119 --> 01:40:29,560
with the exception of the Bulls, you could make a

2165
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,039
case that they have an incentive to be buyers at

2166
01:40:32,039 --> 01:40:34,840
the trade deadline, or at least opportunistic buyers right at

2167
01:40:34,840 --> 01:40:38,319
the trade deadline. What do you view as just you know,

2168
01:40:38,399 --> 01:40:40,239
one of these teams that we mentioned is gonna finish

2169
01:40:40,239 --> 01:40:40,920
in the top six.

2170
01:40:41,359 --> 01:40:43,920
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, look, it depends on what they do,

2171
01:40:44,039 --> 01:40:45,640
right if if we.

2172
01:40:45,800 --> 01:40:47,640
Speaker 1: Just well you have to balance all that with the

2173
01:40:47,680 --> 01:40:50,199
motivation and the likelihood with the how good they currently

2174
01:40:50,279 --> 01:40:51,560
I would you like my answer?

2175
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:54,720
Speaker 2: I would because I think I think we're going to

2176
01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:55,720
go in different directions.

2177
01:40:56,520 --> 01:40:58,520
Speaker 1: This is and it's coming about. I think was a

2178
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:00,560
month after I said I was out on them, or

2179
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:02,399
maybe I think it was before December I said it.

2180
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:03,520
I think it's Indiana.

2181
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:07,039
Speaker 2: Ah, we're okay. Same, I think they.

2182
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:10,319
Speaker 1: Could do nothing. If you told me these all these

2183
01:41:10,319 --> 01:41:13,039
teams do nothing, So even the Heat still have Jimmy Butler,

2184
01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:15,920
I will feel the most confident in the Indiana Pacers.

2185
01:41:16,039 --> 01:41:16,239
Speaker 2: Yep.

2186
01:41:16,399 --> 01:41:19,920
Speaker 1: So if you say that all these teams or some

2187
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:21,560
of these teams will do something, I think you can

2188
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:23,399
make the case that even if the Pacers do nothing,

2189
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:25,960
you still feel better about them than the teams that

2190
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:28,520
do something, because what is the scale of a move

2191
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:32,039
that Miami or Detroit or Chicago specifically is gonna make.

2192
01:41:32,079 --> 01:41:34,600
Even Atlanta, some of those teams are gonna One of

2193
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:36,760
those teams is probably gonna sell. I think the other

2194
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:39,840
of those teams, Detroit and Atlanta will probably play conservatively,

2195
01:41:40,279 --> 01:41:42,920
it seems of all, honestly, it seems of all these

2196
01:41:42,920 --> 01:41:44,920
teams the most likely to try and take a swing

2197
01:41:45,399 --> 01:41:48,159
would be Philly because they might view it as a necessity.

2198
01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:52,119
But if you told me Indiana did something, I think

2199
01:41:52,199 --> 01:41:54,520
they need to do the smallest level of something for

2200
01:41:54,560 --> 01:41:58,000
you to feel exponentially better about their team than you

2201
01:41:58,039 --> 01:42:01,520
do right now. Whereas I don't even know. Maybe Detroit

2202
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:05,079
comes a second, because with philliates because it always is

2203
01:42:05,079 --> 01:42:08,319
going to come back to embiid you can't do anything.

2204
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:10,560
I don't think that is just gonna make you feel

2205
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:14,920
not measurably, but exponentially to use that word again, to

2206
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:19,640
feel just world's better about their present season chances of

2207
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:21,920
making noise in the Eastern Coup, because no matter who

2208
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:24,560
they get within reason right, it's still gonna come down

2209
01:42:24,560 --> 01:42:27,720
to how healthy, how healthy is Joel Embid specifically, and

2210
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:29,600
what does healthy Joel and Beiard look like.

2211
01:42:31,279 --> 01:42:34,840
Speaker 2: So I agree with the Pacers. I will say this,

2212
01:42:36,279 --> 01:42:40,760
if if Miyami has that Kumbaya moment between Jimmy and Pat,

2213
01:42:41,039 --> 01:42:43,399
if that's the thing, if that they just put aside

2214
01:42:43,439 --> 01:42:45,920
their differences, they go in Jimmy Butler place, you know,

2215
01:42:46,039 --> 01:42:48,880
the best version of Jimmy Butler basketball for the next

2216
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:52,359
half season. I think they leave rock Detroit. I think

2217
01:42:52,399 --> 01:42:55,760
they're above Detroit because I do think motivated Jimmy Butler

2218
01:42:57,800 --> 01:43:00,359
and with Bam there as good as he is, Tyler

2219
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:03,520
hero like that trio is just a little too enticing

2220
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:05,880
for me to go with Detroit over Miami.

2221
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:10,079
Speaker 1: I would agree with you too, And I think also

2222
01:43:10,640 --> 01:43:15,680
Detroit has one of the five toughest schedules remaining three

2223
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:18,760
matchups against the Calves, both of their matchups against the Thunder.

2224
01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:20,680
They only have to play the Celtics one more time

2225
01:43:20,760 --> 01:43:23,600
so that to vote in their favor. Whereas with Miami

2226
01:43:24,159 --> 01:43:26,079
and they're about middle of the road, they're seventeenth. I'm

2227
01:43:26,079 --> 01:43:28,239
looking at theirs now their strength of schedule, so I

2228
01:43:28,239 --> 01:43:30,399
mean they have Boston three times, the Knicks twice, the

2229
01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:32,760
Calves twice. That's that's a lot. But I think you

2230
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:35,039
just I don't think that's spicy if you were getting

2231
01:43:35,039 --> 01:43:37,399
into the number. I think, honestly, what should be a

2232
01:43:37,399 --> 01:43:39,319
hot take it is not the fact that we're just like,

2233
01:43:39,359 --> 01:43:41,920
could Detroit do you feel better about that than the Sixers?

2234
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:45,039
In theory, you shouldn't, because at some point we have

2235
01:43:45,079 --> 01:43:48,720
to gravitate towards just the top end outcomes of nothing happening,

2236
01:43:49,319 --> 01:43:51,920
and Philly still has that going for them. But man,

2237
01:43:52,439 --> 01:43:55,359
this is just this is like the lack of feel

2238
01:43:55,439 --> 01:43:59,319
group in the Eastern Conference, right, And I honestly probably

2239
01:43:59,319 --> 01:44:01,239
have the strongest feel for what I think Detroit and

2240
01:44:01,279 --> 01:44:05,199
Atlanta are and that's just a weird thing to say.

2241
01:44:06,640 --> 01:44:09,640
Speaker 2: I will say this though, with the Pistons. One of

2242
01:44:09,680 --> 01:44:12,840
the reasons that I hesitate is Also, they won thirty

2243
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:16,600
percent of all their wins in the past fourteen days

2244
01:44:17,159 --> 01:44:21,159
on the season, So you know, I don't want to

2245
01:44:21,159 --> 01:44:23,720
say we're crowning them too quickly, but I do think

2246
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:26,119
we're sipping the kool aid. That's fine, we should all

2247
01:44:26,119 --> 01:44:29,119
sip the kool aid once in a while. But it's

2248
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:33,159
it's been fourteen days of this caliber of play. I

2249
01:44:33,199 --> 01:44:36,960
want to say, that's a sample size that's still just

2250
01:44:37,319 --> 01:44:40,159
smtch too small for me to get like fully excited.

2251
01:44:40,319 --> 01:44:45,239
Speaker 1: I mean, push comes to shove. They're probably fourth in

2252
01:44:45,319 --> 01:44:47,119
my who would I If I'm ranking these teams in

2253
01:44:47,239 --> 01:44:50,239
terms of being immediate threats this season, I would have Indiana.

2254
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:53,239
I'm probably gonna put Philly to to be honest with you,

2255
01:44:53,319 --> 01:44:56,640
because the Philly Butler thing with Miami. I'll probably put

2256
01:44:56,680 --> 01:44:59,960
them three. But I don't think either of us conmit

2257
01:45:00,159 --> 01:45:02,560
myself that you're gonna trade Jimmy Butler and be even

2258
01:45:03,119 --> 01:45:07,760
comparatively off. But if you keep Jimmy Butler, there's a

2259
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:10,000
chance that you could maybe be really good, and then

2260
01:45:10,039 --> 01:45:13,199
I'd probably put I don't know when I put the

2261
01:45:13,199 --> 01:45:16,399
Hawks ahead of the Pistons, Like there's I think the

2262
01:45:16,439 --> 01:45:19,880
Pistons feel like they've carved out more of an enviable

2263
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:22,840
path than they had before and it's bolstered by Okay,

2264
01:45:22,880 --> 01:45:27,359
they're competent, and maybe we're overrating the competence, but that's

2265
01:45:27,399 --> 01:45:29,880
like for them, it's not about this season for them

2266
01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:32,920
in Chicago more than any other team. Whether Chicago feels

2267
01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:34,960
that way or not, it's a different story. But for

2268
01:45:35,399 --> 01:45:37,319
them even more than any other team, because they have

2269
01:45:37,399 --> 01:45:40,479
their primary building block in place, it's not about this season.

2270
01:45:40,520 --> 01:45:44,079
And so if we were ranking futures, I mean pro

2271
01:45:44,279 --> 01:45:46,479
maybe Indiana could be in front of Detroit. Put Detroit's

2272
01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:48,600
at the top of this, maybe Atlanta's there, Like that's

2273
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:50,640
a different discussion. So in terms of immedia, I think

2274
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:57,000
I'm going Pacers Sixers. Honestly, I'm going Pacers Sixers, Hawks, Pistons,

2275
01:45:57,000 --> 01:46:00,560
heat pulls the heat or just they're in such a

2276
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:03,359
weird position that even if you keep Jimmy Butler, which

2277
01:46:03,439 --> 01:46:06,760
might be the better here and now route to go down,

2278
01:46:07,359 --> 01:46:09,079
is it gonna because I don't know what Jimmy Butler

2279
01:46:09,119 --> 01:46:10,239
is like gonna do.

2280
01:46:11,880 --> 01:46:13,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think I have a ranking, but you

2281
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:15,800
and I do agree on the first and the last

2282
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:20,359
one shout out to Chicago, shout out to the pulls,

2283
01:46:20,439 --> 01:46:27,119
or at least being consistent no, and again this you

2284
01:46:27,159 --> 01:46:32,600
know what? Like this exercise also underlines just how excited

2285
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:34,920
I am for the second half of the season through

2286
01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:38,279
the perspective of the Eastern Conference, because like, we have

2287
01:46:38,399 --> 01:46:41,640
no idea what's gonna happen here. It's such a weird

2288
01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:44,840
conference to get smart about. I don't think there are

2289
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:48,840
any breadcrumbs that is selling us what's gonna happen. This

2290
01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:52,680
is just a complete wild wild West, and it's only

2291
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:54,840
going to get even wilder by a trade that line.

2292
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:58,279
So it's I'm very much looking forward to seeing you

2293
01:46:58,319 --> 01:47:01,840
know which team because someone will break off of this

2294
01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:05,600
group and just shove our words right back down our throats.

2295
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:07,520
That's gonna happen. It's just going to be a question for.

2296
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:09,640
Speaker 1: Mort unless you have anything else to add. Are you

2297
01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:12,880
able to tell our listeners and viewers where they can

2298
01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:15,159
find you and all the fantastic work that you do.

2299
01:47:15,920 --> 01:47:20,000
Speaker 2: Yes, So I am at Blue Sky at MSJ, NBA

2300
01:47:20,159 --> 01:47:22,920
dot BSKY dot social. I think it's like the the

2301
01:47:23,239 --> 01:47:23,640
you are.

2302
01:47:24,039 --> 01:47:26,079
Speaker 1: To touch that on Blue Sky. I'll just it's still

2303
01:47:26,239 --> 01:47:27,279
MSJA NBA.

2304
01:47:27,159 --> 01:47:30,000
Speaker 2: Right, MSJA, NBA Okay, cool, yeah yeah on Blue Skuy.

2305
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:33,439
I'm not really over at the bad place anymore because

2306
01:47:33,479 --> 01:47:36,920
I don't think it's fun. But yeah, you can find

2307
01:47:36,920 --> 01:47:40,000
my work over at Jahoo, over at Forbes that's Sports Illustrated,

2308
01:47:40,079 --> 01:47:44,720
specifically at Draft Digest. I do the NBA podcast usually

2309
01:47:45,039 --> 01:47:46,800
with you for the most part. Like you and I

2310
01:47:47,039 --> 01:47:50,119
are beg. We've begun dating quite a bit now, every

2311
01:47:50,159 --> 01:47:52,560
single month at least a couple of times, so that's fun.

2312
01:47:52,920 --> 01:47:56,920
Speaker 1: We're up to three times a month. Yeah, that's consistency.

2313
01:47:57,279 --> 01:48:03,119
Speaker 2: It's consistency. Yeah yeah, But please.

2314
01:48:02,760 --> 01:48:04,479
Speaker 1: Go follow more all the great work that he does

2315
01:48:04,560 --> 01:48:06,119
and shout out to anyone listening to this on the

2316
01:48:06,239 --> 01:48:08,359
NBA podcast feed as well. Moore does a ton of

2317
01:48:08,439 --> 01:48:10,520
terrific work there Until next time. And as always, I

2318
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:13,079
speak for more when I say shout out to the one,

2319
01:48:13,439 --> 01:48:15,640
the only, the indelible, the one who can actually swing

2320
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:18,680
the championship race when he invariably comes back to the

2321
01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:21,680
NBA this season, mister Frank Healing.

2322
01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:22,199
Speaker 2: Cue it