Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers, Sundean and Aaron. It's
Speaker 1: getting dark Outside.
Speaker 2: Tapes from the Dark Side contains descriptions of violence and sexuality.
Speaker 3: Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: Fan Duel, DraftKings Bet, MGM, Caesar's Fanatics, Fliff Bet three
Speaker 1: six y five Underdog, and the Score Bet. Between March
Speaker 1: twenty ninth and April seventh, I deposited money into nine
Speaker 1: different sports betting apps. I place bets on baseball, basketball,
Speaker 1: even hockey. I place bets at three in the morning.
Speaker 1: I place bets on my lunch break. I placed bets.
Speaker 1: I don't even remember placing. And here's the part that
Speaker 1: makes the story different for the one you might think
Speaker 1: you're hearing. I was winning.
Speaker 4: I think everyone has a bit of a fascination with
Speaker 4: the dark side.
Speaker 1: I myself always loved the dark side as well.
Speaker 3: I think it's something that everyone secretly longs for in walks.
Speaker 5: The people of this community community need us, and the
Speaker 5: people with this community wants They want the good ones,
Speaker 5: and we're going to be the good ones.
Speaker 6: The dark side.
Speaker 1: The day after Yukon beat Duke, I woke up and
Speaker 1: did something that felt completely rational at the time. I
Speaker 1: signed up for five more apps. I only know this
Speaker 1: because I went back through my bank statements for this series.
Speaker 1: Transaction by transaction. Here's what March thirtieth looked like in
Speaker 1: my Wells Fargo checking account DraftKings five dollars deposit. That
Speaker 1: was the minimum to activate their sign up bonus. You
Speaker 1: put in five and they give you two hundred in
Speaker 1: bonus bets. I remember thinking that's a forty to one
Speaker 1: return before I even pick a team. Bet MGM three
Speaker 1: separate deposits ten dollars, then one hundred, then twenty five,
Speaker 1: Each one unlocked a different promotional tier. The app walked
Speaker 1: me through it, deposit this much, get this bonus, deposit more,
Speaker 1: get a bigger one one hundred and thirty five dollars
Speaker 1: in real money, one hundreds more in bonus bets waiting
Speaker 1: for me. Fanatics one hundred dollars, then another one hundred,
Speaker 1: BET three six five ten dollars, just enough to activate
Speaker 1: the three hundred and sixty five dollars bonus, Caesar's two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty one dollars, and another four hundred FanDuel
Speaker 1: on top of what was already in there. Five new
Speaker 1: apps plus additional deposits into my existing FanDuel account, all
Speaker 1: in one day. That was over eleven hundred dollars, leaving
Speaker 1: my checking account before dinnertime, and every app I opened
Speaker 1: had a little pile of free bets waiting for me,
Speaker 1: like chocolates on a hotel pillow. The next day, March thirty, first,
Speaker 1: I signed up for the score Bet five hundred dollars deposit,
Speaker 1: then another five hundred, one thousand dollars to an app
Speaker 1: I had never heard of twenty four hours earlier. I
Speaker 1: put another three hundred into DraftKings and another four hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty five into bet MGM. Then April First, Bet
Speaker 1: three sixty five again, two hundred and seventy nine dollars,
Speaker 1: this time on my credit card. Yes, I know, only
Speaker 1: a fucking idiot would fund their fan Duel account with
Speaker 1: a credit card. I wouldn't discover this until days later,
Speaker 1: but Wells Fargo charged me a fee on this transaction. Now,
Speaker 1: there was no warning in the app that using a
Speaker 1: credit card would trigger such a fee. Should I have
Speaker 1: known better? Probably, Yet the reality was the bank charged
Speaker 1: me a thirteen dollars a ninety five cent cash advanced fee.
Speaker 1: Wells Fargo like all banks, classify gambling deposits as cash advances,
Speaker 1: higher fee, higher interest rate, and the interest starts accruing immediately.
Speaker 1: There is no grace period. Most apps don't even let
Speaker 1: you deposit with a credit card. Almost every other app
Speaker 1: I used Apple Pay tied to my debit card. But
Speaker 1: when I saw Bet three six' five had a credit card,
Speaker 1: OPTION i, thought why not get some reward points While
Speaker 1: i'm at. It that's the kind of logic that makes
Speaker 1: perfect sense at the time and sounds Looney. Tunes three weeks,
Speaker 1: later NOW i realized WHAT i was actually, doing which
Speaker 1: was training my brain to believe that funding bets with
Speaker 1: a credit card was a viable. Option it was as
Speaker 1: easy as tapping a, screen and in the future it
Speaker 1: would be oh so much easier to reach for the
Speaker 1: credit card, if, say the bank account was running a little.
Speaker 1: Dry two days, Later april, third another credit card deposit
Speaker 1: twenty five dollars to the, score, bet another ten dollars
Speaker 1: cash advance fee twenty three. Dollars in ninety five cents
Speaker 1: in total fees across two, deposits not a lot of,
Speaker 1: money but the bank was sending me a SIGNAL i
Speaker 1: wouldn't understand until much. LATER i was now using two
Speaker 1: different funding sources to feed nine different, apps and then
Speaker 1: On april, second the stakes were. Upped underdog two thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: deposit the largest single DEPOSIT i made during the entire ten,
Speaker 1: days two thousand dollars in one transaction to an App
Speaker 1: i'd had for less than a. Day here's what The
Speaker 1: underdog promo looked like on the. Surface deposit two thousand
Speaker 1: dollars and get a thousand dollars bonus fifty percent. Match
Speaker 1: here's what was buried in the terms of service THAT
Speaker 1: i didn't read until about an hour. Later the thousand
Speaker 1: dollars bonus could only be played through on, parlays not straight,
Speaker 1: bets not money, lines parlays, only and the original two
Speaker 1: thousand dollars deposit also had playthrough requirements BEFORE i could
Speaker 1: withdraw any of. IT i was locked. In WHEN i first,
Speaker 1: STARTED i was mostly picking high odd two leg parlays
Speaker 1: that would be more likely to. HIT i just wanted
Speaker 1: to churn a couple hundred from the bonus money without
Speaker 1: thinking too. Hard but NOW i see WHAT i was actually,
Speaker 1: doing which was priming my brain to see parlays as
Speaker 1: yet another viable option for making, money and after hitting
Speaker 1: it big on a dozen of, them my confidence in
Speaker 1: this area started to grow. Too if you haven't bet,
Speaker 1: before a parlay is when you chain multiple bets together
Speaker 1: into one. Ticket say you pick The brewers to win
Speaker 1: and the over on run totals and a player to
Speaker 1: hit a home. Run all three legs have to hit
Speaker 1: or the whole ticket. Loses the payout multiplies because the odds.
Speaker 1: Stack say a five leg parlay on a ten dollars
Speaker 1: bet can pay, hundreds if not, thousands of, dollars but
Speaker 1: the math is. BRUTAL a straight bet against the spread
Speaker 1: and you win roughly half the. Time a five leg
Speaker 1: parlay you win maybe three percent of the. Time the
Speaker 1: sportsbook's cut jumps from around five percent on a money
Speaker 1: line to over twenty percent on same game. Parlays by
Speaker 1: restricting The underdog bonus to parlay, only the company guaranteed
Speaker 1: that most of that thousand dollars would eventually come back to.
Speaker 1: Them the, promo like all, promos wasn't a. Gift it
Speaker 1: was a. Primer one more thing About underdog is that
Speaker 1: it isn't a traditional sports. Book neither Is, fliff WHICH
Speaker 1: i also used both operate in legal gray Areas underdog
Speaker 1: runs under Daily fantasy sports. Licensing in states where sports
Speaker 1: betting isn't, legal they call their parlay style bets pick them.
Speaker 1: Contests as For, fliff they operate as a sweepstakes platform
Speaker 1: using virtual currency that can be redeemed for cash, loopholes
Speaker 1: and that's what these apps are built. ON i didn't
Speaker 1: know any of this WHEN i signed. UP i just
Speaker 1: knew the promos looked. Generous at the end of those
Speaker 1: two to three, DAYS i had every sports betting app
Speaker 1: could legally download in the state Of North. Carolina that's
Speaker 1: what acceleration looks like from the inside of a checking.
Speaker 1: Account it doesn't climb in a straight line and holds
Speaker 1: steady and then. Jumps one, day you're putting in one hundred.
Speaker 1: Dollars three days, later you're putting in two, thousand and
Speaker 1: you don't feel the jump because each step had a,
Speaker 1: reason a, promo to claim a, bonus to unlock a,
Speaker 1: system to, execute and to be honest with, you the
Speaker 1: deposits weren't the part that kept me. Going the withdrawals
Speaker 1: were not the kind of withdrawals usually associated with. Addiction
Speaker 1: i'm talking cash withdraws On april first three days IN
Speaker 1: i pulled twenty four hundred dollars out of the score
Speaker 1: bed back into my checking. ACCOUNT i deposited one, thousand
Speaker 1: fourteen hundred dollars profit on one, app and three days
Speaker 1: and eight other apps were also. Running that withdrawal didn't
Speaker 1: feel like a, warning felt like. PROOF i had a.
Speaker 1: Plan FanDuel's three hundred dollars bet reset token promotion ran
Speaker 1: for ten days, straight ten, tokens ten days of, bets
Speaker 1: SO i decided to play it all the way through day.
Speaker 1: ELEVEN i uninstall, everything cash, out and walk. Away if
Speaker 1: you haven't used sports betting, apps the promos sound, interchangeable
Speaker 1: and they're not. EXACTLY a deposit bonus is the money
Speaker 1: you put in and the app matches. It you deposit
Speaker 1: one hundred and they give you another hundred and bonus.
Speaker 1: BETS a profit boost means you make a bet and
Speaker 1: the app pays out more than the odds normally would
Speaker 1: allow free upside paid for it by the house odds
Speaker 1: boost same kind of. Deal the app takes a specific
Speaker 1: bet and temporarily improves the. Odds and then there's the
Speaker 1: one that got me through the. Door the bet, reset
Speaker 1: sometimes called a second chance, bet sometimes called a No sweat.
Speaker 1: Bet here's how it. Works you place a bet with
Speaker 1: your own, money real. Money if you win. Great if you,
Speaker 1: lose the app gives you an amount, back not as,
Speaker 1: cash but as bonus, bets non withdrawable credits that expire
Speaker 1: in seven to fourteen. Days if you win with those,
Speaker 1: credits the app keeps the original steake amount and only
Speaker 1: pays out the. Profit so a three hundred dollars risk
Speaker 1: free bet at even odds is not exactly worth three
Speaker 1: hundred dollars if you lose and get the bonus bet.
Speaker 1: Back that bonus converts to real cash as roughly sixty
Speaker 1: to seventy cents on the dollar if you play it.
Speaker 1: Perfectly most people. Don't the term risk free got so
Speaker 1: misleading that The American Gaming association band member companies from
Speaker 1: using it as Of JULY, ti twenty twenty, three and
Speaker 1: that's why the apps rebranded it To No sweat and second.
Speaker 1: Chance the mechanics didn't, change just the. Label all three
Speaker 1: types of promos hit your inbox at different rates depending
Speaker 1: on how the app reads your. BEHAVIOR i THOUGHT i
Speaker 1: was choosing which apps to bet on based on which
Speaker 1: ones had the best? Promos what was actually. Happening the
Speaker 1: apps that liked my behavior kept feeding me. Promos the
Speaker 1: apps that didn't. STOPPED i wasn't picking, them they were picking.
Speaker 1: Me by day, FIVE i was almost exclusively using Fan, Duel, DraftKings,
Speaker 1: fanatics And caesar's because those were the ones that were
Speaker 1: sending me. Offers bet three six' five had, Gone quiet
Speaker 1: fliff had. GONE quiet i drifted away. FROM them i
Speaker 1: thought that was. My decision my phone changed during that
Speaker 1: Week before march. Twenty ninth my home screen had the usual, Stuff, Messages.
Speaker 1: Instagram spotify after, the flood there were nine, new icons,
Speaker 1: Bright colors DraftKings, IN green, Fandul, BLUE Bet, mgm gold
Speaker 1: each one with a, notification badge each one sending. Push
Speaker 1: alerts your bonus bet is waiting tonight's, odd boost you
Speaker 1: have free bets. Expiring soon, nine apps all competing for
Speaker 1: the same, real estate all whispering the. Same thing. Open
Speaker 1: me my phone had become a. SLOT machine i was
Speaker 1: carrying it in my pocket sixteen hours. A day i
Speaker 1: was sleeping with it on my nightstand or, more accurately under,
Speaker 1: my pillow and EVERY time i picked, it up nine
Speaker 1: sports books were fighting for. The rights you take. My money.
Speaker 7: We'll be right back after a. Quick break if you
Speaker 7: want to skip the ads and support, the show you
Speaker 7: can do so at patreon. Dot Com slash tape From The.
Speaker 1: DARK side i usually don't discuss THE work i do outside,
Speaker 1: this podcast but today that's going. TO change i work
Speaker 1: second shift at a drug and alcohol rehab center as a.
Speaker 1: Clinical aid there was a client who came through during
Speaker 1: that TIME who i took a liking to talk, about,
Speaker 1: philosophy recovery. Anything really and this guy used to trade options.
Speaker 1: Full time he, was smart, understood markets. Probability risk he
Speaker 1: was THE one i celebrated With when yukon hit that.
Speaker 1: Buzzer beater we jumped up from the couch. High fived
Speaker 1: i'd shown him the bet and he'd seen. The payout
Speaker 1: one day during, a shift we were talking about the
Speaker 1: betting apps and he said, three words viable. SIDE gig
Speaker 1: i immediately shrugged. Him off. I'm out but that's all.
Speaker 1: It took once someone says it, out loud the thing
Speaker 1: you've been whispering to yourself starts to. COME real i
Speaker 1: laughed off. The idea i'm not. AN idiot i know
Speaker 1: gambling is obviously never going to pay. The bills but
Speaker 1: that thing in the crawl space doesn't need you to
Speaker 1: believe it. Right away it just needs you to not
Speaker 1: close the. DOOR entirely i, started THINKING if i could
Speaker 1: make an extra two to three hundred dollars, a night
Speaker 1: a couple hours, OF work i could just do the
Speaker 1: podcast thing full time and bed a little on. THE
Speaker 1: side i subconsciously began to entertain this belief while knowing
Speaker 1: INTELLECTUALLY everything i told you last episode about dopamine and
Speaker 1: cross addiction AND the. Dsm five but knowledge doesn't. Protect
Speaker 1: you knowing the science doesn't. Protect you understanding the math doesn't.
Speaker 1: Protect you the thing in the crawl space doesn't care what.
Speaker 1: You know it cares how. You feel AND what i felt, was,
Speaker 1: competent special like the promos might make an addict out,
Speaker 1: of others but.
Speaker 5: Not me.
Speaker 1: In nineteen, seventy five a Psychologist Named ellen langer ran
Speaker 1: an Experiment. At yale she gave office workers. Lottery tickets
Speaker 1: half got to pick their, own ticket half were handed one.
Speaker 1: At random before, the drawing she asked what price they'd
Speaker 1: Sell for the people who chose their own ticket demanded
Speaker 1: nearly four and a half times, more money, same lottery,
Speaker 1: same odds but the act of choosing made people believe
Speaker 1: they had influence over a purely. Random outcome langer called
Speaker 1: it the illusion. Of control sports betting triggers it harder
Speaker 1: than almost any other form. Of gambling you're not pulling a.
Speaker 1: Slot lever, you're researching you're, analyzing matchups you're. Watching film
Speaker 1: you have. A system a two thousand and four study
Speaker 1: followed thirty expert hockey betters across a. Full season their
Speaker 1: actual returns were no better than. Random picks the sportsbook's
Speaker 1: margin wiped out every bit of. Their expertise the, researcher's
Speaker 1: conclusion the skills sports betters believe they have are. COGNITIVE
Speaker 1: distortions i had, A system i had, A spreadsheet i
Speaker 1: had an options trader TELLING me i was good, at
Speaker 1: THIS and i had nine apps in my pocket confirming.
Speaker 1: The illusion the dopamine high from winning a bet. IS
Speaker 1: real i told you about it. Last episode the, mesolymbic PATHWAY,
Speaker 1: the vta the, nucleus occumbents all. Of IT but i
Speaker 1: need to be honest about the scale. Of it the
Speaker 1: high of winning a bet for me was nothing like
Speaker 1: the high. Of alcohol it was nothing. Like oxycodone those
Speaker 1: were my drugs, of choice or maybe, more accurately drugs of.
Speaker 1: No choice the FIRST time i took a, real drink
Speaker 1: the FIRST time i took an oxy my whole body
Speaker 1: lit up in a way that gambling never came close.
Speaker 1: To matching gambling wasn't bigger than my. Old highs it, was, smaller,
Speaker 1: Quieter duller and that might actually be what makes it
Speaker 1: all the. More cunning somewhere around day four, OR five i.
Speaker 1: WAS exhausted i was not. SLEEPING well i was checking
Speaker 1: odds through my. Work day the rush of each individual
Speaker 1: wind had. FLATTENED out, i knew on a very, CONSCIOUS
Speaker 1: level i was not enjoying, this ANYMORE and i still
Speaker 1: ended UP where i ended up on. Day eleven the
Speaker 1: flood that hit me didn't come out. Of nowhere somebody built.
Speaker 1: The river somebody spent a lot of money. Building it
Speaker 1: in twenty, Twenty, Four DraftKings, fan duel AND bet mgm
Speaker 1: spend it combined three hundred and fourteen million dollars on
Speaker 1: television advertising in a. Single Year john ham's done A Commercial.
Speaker 8: You'll Never forget BET Him, Gm sportsbook make It Legendary.
Speaker 1: Lebron james i'm to.
Speaker 5: Take it to the House, with DraftKings, new customers bet,
Speaker 5: five bucks get.
Speaker 1: Three Hundred, Kevin, Hart Yeah kevin hart. SPORTS books i respect, The.
Speaker 1: Hustle DraftKings Respect jamie fox, in here.
Speaker 5: Bet him GM's got all the sports betting.
Speaker 1: And One, Tom Brady, vince Vaughn And wayne gretzky did.
Speaker 1: One TOGETHER em.
Speaker 8: Jm is for everyone that loves, sports betting Everyone But.
Speaker 5: Tom, brady wait WHAT did?
Speaker 1: I DO and i think there's been a. Couple Others,
Speaker 1: Charles barkley, Shaquille O'Neill, Derek Jeter, Barry sanders Peyton And,
Speaker 1: Eli Manning, Vanessa Hudgens, Kevin Garnett, Jalen Rose, Marshawn Lynch,
Speaker 1: David Artiz, Tony Hawk, Kendall, Jenner Ludacris, RYAN. Seacrest, Jb Smooth,
Speaker 1: Patton Oswald, Gordon Ramsay, Halle Berry, Rob Gronkouncy, Luis, Kusman
Speaker 1: Olivia Don, Drew Brees Jerome, Bettis Drake, Neil, Patrick Harris Christian, Ronaldo,
Speaker 1: Namer Junior, Paris Hill, Nicki, minajen Yes the undertaker that.
Speaker 1: Doesn't count digital social media, podcast sponsorships, stadium signage or.
Speaker 1: Influencer deals these are not. Informational ads they're not explaining.
Speaker 1: A product they're associating gambling, with, laughter, status competition. And
Speaker 1: friendship they're embedding sportsbook apps into the emotional fabric of,
Speaker 1: watching sports so that opening DraftKings feels as natural as
Speaker 1: checking the Score During, march MADNESS while i was downloading,
Speaker 1: nine APPS every ncaa tournament broadcast had sportsbook ads running.
Speaker 1: During timeouts every SPORTS podcast i listened to opened with
Speaker 1: a promo Code Read my instagram feed was serving me
Speaker 1: targeted draftking ads because my Phone knew i'd visited. Their
Speaker 1: websites ESPN's scoreboard app had a bet button built into the.
Speaker 1: Game page you couldn't check a score box without. Seeing
Speaker 1: odds it was everywhere woven into the experience of being
Speaker 1: a sports fan so thoroughly that not betting started to
Speaker 1: feel like the, weird CHOICE like i was the only
Speaker 1: person at the party without. A Drink in december twenty,
Speaker 1: twenty Four The United States Senate judiciary committee held a
Speaker 1: hearing on legalized. Sports Gambling Senator dick durbin opened with
Speaker 1: this with.
Speaker 6: The advent of online, sports betting everyone's cell phone is a.
Speaker 6: Sports book LAST night i went to. A reception A
Speaker 6: fella i didn't know came up to me, and said
Speaker 6: thanks for having. This HEARING and, i said what's your interest?
Speaker 5: In?
Speaker 6: It said my son's at An ivy. League school he bets,
Speaker 6: every day and his fellow students. Do too it has
Speaker 6: become so common they aren't even think it's a. New phenomenon.
Speaker 8: What, it is we call it the big con taking, a,
Speaker 8: known dangerous an addictive product and then blaming it with
Speaker 8: a fraudulent and manipulative financial SCHEME.
Speaker 5: Some usa how?
Speaker 8: Is it how is online gambling or big time commercial?
Speaker 8: Casino operators how are they different than any? Other BUSINESS
Speaker 8: if i want to go To A minnesota, VIKINGS game
Speaker 8: i buy a ticket to. THE game i get. That,
Speaker 8: experience okay it's a one for. One exchange commercialized gambling
Speaker 8: is a financial exchange that's mathematically stacked. Against you the
Speaker 8: longer you participate, in it the more frequently you participate,
Speaker 8: in participating it's a mathematical guarantee you're going to lose all.
Speaker 4: Your cash you're driving on, the highway there's a billboard
Speaker 4: for you're watching, the show there's a commercial for you're on,
Speaker 4: your phone there's. An, advertisement NO it's, i mean it's
Speaker 4: probably testibate how much moneys in the industry with it,
Speaker 4: Right now but it's everywhere.
Speaker 5: You look the sports books and the commercials and the
Speaker 5: leagues themselves are making it look so cool to gamble
Speaker 5: and risk.
Speaker 2: And money it's being marketed much more now as like.
Speaker 2: Fun play, be happy, sell sports but just be aware
Speaker 2: that it. Destroys lives gamblers have a highest suicide rate
Speaker 2: compared to any other. You, KNOW addiction i think that
Speaker 2: it being so ameshed, in society we're really just at
Speaker 2: the beginning. OF It.
Speaker 1: A landmark uk study analyzed one hundred and thirty nine thousand.
Speaker 1: Gambling accounts eighty percent of revenue it came from just
Speaker 1: five point seven percent. Of. Gamblers addicts the business model
Speaker 1: doesn't need most people to, lose big it needs a
Speaker 1: small number of people to. Lose everything have you ever
Speaker 1: seen a? Venus flytrap it, sits still it, Doesn't chase
Speaker 1: it opens its mouth. And waits on the inside of
Speaker 1: that mouth is a sweetened nectar that. Attracts insects the,
Speaker 1: insect lands and the fly trap, doesn't close, not yet
Speaker 1: because of its. Snap shut every time something. Touched it
Speaker 1: it would waste energy on things that weren't, Worth digesting so,
Speaker 1: it waits and it only closes when the insect crosses a,
Speaker 1: specific threshold a exact number of contact points that must. Be,
Speaker 1: triggered then and only then does the trap. Spring shut
Speaker 1: three hundred and fourteen million dollars, Of nectar Kevin Hart,
Speaker 1: lebron James The manning brothers the scents and it gets
Speaker 1: the attention, of insects and it gets them. To land
Speaker 1: and once, you've landed there's, free bets, deposit matches. Profit
Speaker 1: boosts the trap, is open, you're inside, feels, roomy spacious
Speaker 1: and then the trap starts analyzing. Your behavior, every bets,
Speaker 1: every deposit, every session the trap is. Testing you are
Speaker 1: you a profitable customer or a? Bonus hunter are you
Speaker 1: going to chase losses or walk away with. The promo
Speaker 1: the sensors, are firing and once you hit these specific,
Speaker 1: pressure points the. Trap closes for, some people that's the
Speaker 1: first big. Unheedged bet for some it's the first deposit
Speaker 1: from a. Credit card for some it's the moment they
Speaker 1: stop watching a game for enjoyment and start watching it
Speaker 1: purely for the. Bet outcome different triggers for, different insects
Speaker 1: but for every person the industry turns into a long term.
Speaker 1: Losing customer there is a specific moment with the trap.
Speaker 1: Snap Shut carl jacobsen was inside a closed fly trap
Speaker 1: by the time he. Was arrested i'm gonna show you
Speaker 1: later in this series exactly when the trap closed. On
Speaker 1: me the fly trap doesn't have to, chase you it
Speaker 1: just has.
Speaker 7: To exist we'll be right back after a. Quick break.
Speaker 1: In two thousand, and seven Researchers At Harvard medical school
Speaker 1: got access to something no gambling study had ever. Had
Speaker 1: before real. Betting data, not surveys not, self reports actual
Speaker 1: anonymized account level records from tens of thousands of real
Speaker 1: customers On, b win A major european. Sports book they
Speaker 1: could see, every deposit, every bet every win and loss
Speaker 1: in real time. At scale one of the things they
Speaker 1: found was simple. And devastating people who experienced a big
Speaker 1: early win placed more bets in, subsequent weeks wagered, larger
Speaker 1: amounts took on, more risk and lost more money. Over
Speaker 1: time early winning made them long. TERM losers a separate
Speaker 1: study tracked thirty four thousand daily fantasy Sports subscrit greiber's.
Speaker 1: Same findings big wins led to higher, entry fees, more
Speaker 1: contests and greater. Net losses fifty five percent of at
Speaker 1: risk gamblers recalled beginner's luck as a. Formative memory the
Speaker 1: memory of winning early isn't just a nice story you.
Speaker 1: Tell yourself it's a clinical predictor of what. Comes Next
Speaker 1: Doctor robert custer mapped the progression of gambling disorder back
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four, three stages the, winning phase the,
Speaker 1: losing phase the. Desperation phase nobody skips the winning phase
Speaker 1: because without it you. Walk away as, YOU know i
Speaker 1: won two hundred and fifty two dollars on a one
Speaker 1: point three percent. Probability game carl won somewhere early in his.
Speaker 1: Cycle two we both entered the, winning phase and what
Speaker 1: it did to both of us it changed our relationship
Speaker 1: with our. Own judgment in the first, FOUR days i,
Speaker 1: was disciplined. GENUINELY disciplined i, was hedging placing a bet on,
Speaker 1: one app then placing the opposite bet on a different
Speaker 1: app at a, different line locking in a small guaranteed
Speaker 1: profit from the gap between the. Two books the profit,
Speaker 1: was modest but it Was certain by, DAY six i
Speaker 1: had stopped. Hedging entirely the shift didn't feel like. A
Speaker 1: collapse it felt like. A promotion the hedging, was. MECHANICAL
Speaker 1: boring i was spending an hour setting up guaranteed thirty
Speaker 1: dollars PROFITS when i could just pick the right side
Speaker 1: and make. Three hundred each step, Was incremental each step
Speaker 1: made sense in the context of the step, before it
Speaker 1: and by THE time i, looked up the entire foundation
Speaker 1: OF what i was doing. Had changed and that's how.
Speaker 1: Addiction works it doesn't. Announce itself it adjusts, the settings
Speaker 1: one click at, a time until you're living in a
Speaker 1: completely different program and you don't remember. The switch the
Speaker 1: client's voice was in, my head, viable sidekick and my record.
Speaker 1: Was confirmation, april fifth twenty, twenty six three point thirty
Speaker 1: two in. The morning by THIS point i had been
Speaker 1: betting for a, week straight placing bets, at lunch checking
Speaker 1: odds while people were talking, to me waking up and
Speaker 1: reaching for my phone before my feet hit, the floor
Speaker 1: not to check the time or my emails, or messages
Speaker 1: but to check if my overnight bet. Had Settled on,
Speaker 1: FanDuel alone i had already made at least twenty seven
Speaker 1: bets across the eight. OTHER apps i guarantee the number
Speaker 1: of individual bets was over. One hundred at three thirty
Speaker 1: two in, THE morning i placed a three hundred dollars
Speaker 1: bet reset token On The cincinnati reds minus one point
Speaker 1: five on the. Run line odds were plus one Sixty
Speaker 1: four reds favored to win by two. Or more rough.
Speaker 1: Plus money not exactly a, long shot but definitely not a.
Speaker 1: Guaranteed thing if you GUESS that i watched that, game
Speaker 1: live you'd. Be CORRECT but i didn't just watch. IT
Speaker 1: live i watched it like it Was The, world series
Speaker 1: a random game On a, sunday afternoon featuring two TEAMS
Speaker 1: that i would never normally. Tune into it was a
Speaker 1: three hundred dollars bet at one sixty. Four odds that's
Speaker 1: a four hundred and ninety two, DOLLARS profit a payout
Speaker 1: of eight. Hundred dollars eight hundred dollars is a full
Speaker 1: Week's pay at my.
Speaker 5: Day job Grand And right side And through wave is
Speaker 5: on the scoop and right nimble fire to The plane
Speaker 5: head's late head first line mclade HiT's two To one
Speaker 5: cincinnati early eight.
Speaker 1: Men are on first and. Second Base the reds are up.
Speaker 1: By one everything is going according, to PLAN but i
Speaker 1: Need the reds to win by. Two runs and two,
Speaker 1: pitches later.
Speaker 5: That's lined and down at left field base it stop
Speaker 5: signing at Third Day la cruz. Late breaks could he have?
Speaker 5: SCORED there i, thought.
Speaker 1: So, another hit but the third base Coach Held Ellie
Speaker 1: dela cruz at. Third base could he have? Scored, THERE
Speaker 1: honestly i. DON'T know i, think so but no one.
Speaker 1: Really Knows Ellie dela cruz used to be in the
Speaker 1: top FIVE fastest mlb players in, the league clocking in
Speaker 1: at thirty one miles an, hour absurd but he started
Speaker 1: bulking up in recent years to, gain power and his
Speaker 1: agility has taken a. Noticeable hits he is no longer
Speaker 1: even the fastest person on. His team but still there
Speaker 1: was only. One out bases. ARE loaded i just needed one.
Speaker 1: More run it could be a, sack fly it could be,
Speaker 1: a bunt, a. Groundball anything the one thing it could
Speaker 1: not be was a double play.
Speaker 8: On two pitch man that one is line a second
Speaker 8: Cut by smith back to the.
Speaker 1: About that sometimes he's got.
Speaker 6: A Break tela cruz was way down the line at
Speaker 6: Third and smith with the long thrown nailed him to in.
Speaker 1: The inning inning, over In the reds would not. Score
Speaker 1: again they won, the game but only by, one run
Speaker 1: and i lost my three. Hundred dollars i'd been winning for,
Speaker 1: a week and this loss. Landed Different the tennessee loss
Speaker 1: Back on march twenty ninth. DIDN'T register i MEANT what
Speaker 1: i said back in episode one slid, off me but
Speaker 1: this one stayed because winning changes what a loss. Feels
Speaker 1: like after, a streak a loss isn't a normal. Outcome
Speaker 1: anymore feels, like theft like something that belonged to you,
Speaker 1: Got taken and the response your brain generates before your
Speaker 1: conscious mind gets a vote is get. It back that response.
Speaker 1: Is physical it's not even really. A thought it's not.
Speaker 1: A decision it's a tightening in, your chest a heat behind,
Speaker 1: your eyes an urgency, that, says now don't consult, your sponsor,
Speaker 1: your spreadsheet or. Your friends and by the time your
Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex catches up and tries to pump, the brakes
Speaker 1: the bed is. Already placed that, is lost chasing one
Speaker 1: of the diagnostic criteria for gambling disorder IN the. Dsm
Speaker 1: five the, Next day April Sixth milwaukee brewers At The Boston.
Speaker 1: RED sox i Bet the brewers not on one app
Speaker 1: On five FanDuel three hundred dollars Bonus bet brewers money
Speaker 1: line minus One eight FanDuel again three hundred dollars bet
Speaker 1: Reset token brewers, minus One sixteen caesar ten dollars Bonus
Speaker 1: bet brewers, minus One fifteen fanatics two hundred, dollars wager
Speaker 1: one hundred dollar bet match another one hundred, dollars match
Speaker 1: multiple profit boosted side bets, All brewers DraftKings twenty dollars
Speaker 1: with a fifty percent. Profit boost underdog forty nine To
Speaker 1: fifty brewers, To win underdog forty nine to. Ninety five
Speaker 1: Entry on brewers to win, one game five apps and
Speaker 1: every single dollar on the, same side, no hedge no
Speaker 1: opposite bet on a different book.
Speaker 2: On the ground, RIGHT side a long way to.
Speaker 6: His left zoran uses the range to, get there And
Speaker 6: the brewers are eight.
Speaker 1: And Two the brewers won five apps one. After another
Speaker 1: FanDuel settled one two hundred and seventy. Nine dollars fan
Speaker 1: duel again settled one five hundred fifty. Eight dollars DraftKings.
Speaker 1: Settled one caesar's settled one fanatics settled one one. One
Speaker 1: one my phone lit up like, a switchboard, confetti animations,
Speaker 1: victory sounds each one engineered to make the moment feel
Speaker 1: bigger than, it was multiplied that across. Five apps at the.
Speaker 1: SAME time i won somewhere around fifteen hundred dollars on,
Speaker 1: one GAME and i. Felt power it wasn't just. THE
Speaker 1: money i FELT like i had cracked, the code and,
Speaker 1: MOST importantly i FELT like i needed to place the.
Speaker 1: Next bet the high of, that win my biggest, to
Speaker 1: date the biggest in, my life had a half life
Speaker 1: of around forty. Five minutes there was something going on
Speaker 1: underneath that HIGH that i didn't feel. RIGHT away i
Speaker 1: think it truly started the, next morning a kind, of,
Speaker 1: emptiness grayness like THE joy i just had experienced that
Speaker 1: last night wasn't, actually Mine like i'd. Borrowed it that
Speaker 1: feeling has. A name it's been studied for over one,
Speaker 1: hundred years and it's the reason sobriety alone never fixed
Speaker 1: Anything For carl jacobson or. For me the thing in
Speaker 1: the crawl space. Wasn't hungry it, was full comfortable feed
Speaker 1: up on, the furniture settled in like it owned the
Speaker 1: place and me, upstairs asleep THINKING that i was running.
Speaker 1: The show the thing about mobile gambling is that it's
Speaker 1: nothing like going to. The casino you don't, drive somewhere
Speaker 1: gamble for, three hours and. Drive home mobile gambling, is.
Speaker 1: Ambient atmospheric it lives in the margins of. Your day
Speaker 1: you check the app while you're, making coffee you check
Speaker 1: it while you're waiting for, the microwave and a red
Speaker 1: light check it in. The bathroom every time, you check something,
Speaker 1: has changed a bet, has settled a line, has moved
Speaker 1: a bonus, has unlocked a. Notification popped the dopamine doesn't
Speaker 1: come in one. Big wave it comes in one hundred
Speaker 1: tiny pulses spread across the, entire day each one small
Speaker 1: enough that it doesn't really feel, like anything feels like checking,
Speaker 1: your phone which everyone does one hundred times a. Day
Speaker 1: anyways but the cumulative effect is a brain receiving intermittent
Speaker 1: reinforcement from the moment you wake up to the moment you.
Speaker 1: Fall asleep and, intermittent reinforcement as THE Psychologist bf skinner documented,
Speaker 1: decades ago is the most powerful schedule for maintaining, a
Speaker 1: behavior more powerful than, constant reward more powerful than, predictable
Speaker 1: reward the, not knowing the maybe, this time that's. The
Speaker 1: design there's a concept in gambling psychology called aspiration. Level
Speaker 1: shift your internal. Goalpusts MOVE when, i started my goal,
Speaker 1: was simple extract a few hundred dollars from the sign
Speaker 1: up bonuses and. Walk away by, day six the goal.
Speaker 1: Had shifted build, a system make, consistent income replace the
Speaker 1: need for a. Second job there's a post on our
Speaker 1: slash problem Gambling User Gambling recovery calm. Posted quotes gambling is.
Speaker 7: A paradox we're losing is actually the best. Case scenario
Speaker 7: winning early is.
Speaker 1: An infection it teaches your brain and, this works and
Speaker 1: by the time the, losing starts infection has already. Taken hold.
Speaker 7: We'll be right back after a. Quick break don't. Go anywhere.
Speaker 1: At the beginning of, this episode during the, theme music
Speaker 1: you heard, a voice a. Man's voice That Was. Carl
Speaker 1: jacobson and this is, his story not the, arrest story not,
Speaker 1: the warrant not, the confession the story before, all that
Speaker 1: the one that makes everything after. It hurt the easiest
Speaker 1: way to get To know carl is to do what
Speaker 1: you do when you want to get to know anyone
Speaker 1: which is to spend some time. With Him so i'm
Speaker 1: gonna place you in a Room with carl and a Woman.
Speaker 1: Named kika they did an interview TOGETHER for wnhh one oh.
Speaker 1: THREE five i found this video on YouTube and it
Speaker 1: has a grand total of twenty, four views not twenty
Speaker 1: four thousand or twenty, four hundred twenty, four TOTAL and
Speaker 1: i know at least five or six of those are.
Speaker 1: From me the live broadcast undoubtedly had more than twenty.
Speaker 1: FOUR listeners i can't tell you exactly. How many this
Speaker 1: kind of of hyper local community radio station doesn't even
Speaker 1: track those kinds. OF numbers i share these details with
Speaker 1: you to show you the kind of. Police chief karl
Speaker 1: was the kind that took an hour out of his
Speaker 1: day to communicate with the actual People Of new haven
Speaker 1: to be interviewed for a show that only a few
Speaker 1: hundred or maybe few thousand people whatever here.
Speaker 7: Talk to us.
Speaker 5: About why from a very early age you already knew
Speaker 5: that you were going to become a. Police OFFICER so
Speaker 5: i grew up in a household with. Alcoholism abuse there were,
Speaker 5: some issues, you know and when the police arrived as a,
Speaker 5: SMALL kid i. Felt safe my step parents and other
Speaker 5: people didn't feel safe because they were probably going. To
Speaker 5: jail but as a, LITTLE boy i, felt SAFE and,
Speaker 5: I said i want to do SOMETHING where i, help
Speaker 5: people AND when i, show up people.
Speaker 1: FEEL safe a boy in a, chaotic home adults, who
Speaker 1: drank and then the police arrived and the boy. Felt
Speaker 1: safe the boy decided right then that he wanted to
Speaker 1: be the person who makes other people feel, that way
Speaker 1: and he held on to that for twenty. Nine years
Speaker 1: he held. Onto it He Found, new haven he saw the,
Speaker 1: walking beats the community, policing model and, he said THAT'S
Speaker 1: where i want. To go, He went he climbed, the
Speaker 1: ranks and then in late twenty, twenty two the City
Speaker 1: Chose carl jacobson to. Lead it everyone who spoke at
Speaker 1: his appointment said the. Same, thing officers, community members. Or
Speaker 1: organizers they, all said this is. The guy he, gets it,
Speaker 1: He cares and when the Interviewer asked carl what his
Speaker 1: top priority would be in the, big chair he.
Speaker 5: Didn't hesitate the officers need a chief, that's present, that's
Speaker 5: here that's coming in, every day going, to meetings going.
Speaker 5: On homicides i'm not there. To criticize i'm there to
Speaker 5: show HIM that i. Care too you know there's a corny.
Speaker 5: Saying That Actually chief essemen used, to say they don't
Speaker 5: care what you know till they know that.
Speaker 1: YOU care.
Speaker 5: I just want to touch on, One Kid, curtis ratchford
Speaker 5: who came who was involved in. A gang i took
Speaker 5: him out For a sunday and a burger with a
Speaker 5: couple other probation officers and we were getting them hooked up.
Speaker 5: With school two, days later he shot SOMEBODY and i
Speaker 5: had to arrest him. FOR it i was there when
Speaker 5: he got out of jail, To say i'm here.
Speaker 1: For you what do?
Speaker 5: You need HOW can i help you? Stay alive and
Speaker 5: he actually said in that hearing that he feels he's
Speaker 5: alive today because.
Speaker 4: Of me, you know.
Speaker 5: It's been a, long week but, you know we have
Speaker 5: officers that have relationships. LIKE that i want all of
Speaker 5: our officers to have to have relationships. LIKE that i
Speaker 5: have to be. The example and, you know the people
Speaker 5: of this comedian unity, need us and the people with
Speaker 5: those community. Want us they want the, good ones and
Speaker 5: we're going to be the.
Speaker 1: Good ones the Host asked carl to describe himself in.
Speaker 1: THREE words i.
Speaker 5: Hope they would be a, good DAD because i have two,
Speaker 5: Beautiful children so dad leader. And trustworthy his.
Speaker 1: Kids would watch their father. Get arrested his leadership would
Speaker 1: end in a press conference where the, mayor said no
Speaker 1: one is above, the law and trustworthy was the word
Speaker 1: the whole city. Choked On carl jacobson grew up in
Speaker 1: a home. With alcoholism he. Survived it he built an
Speaker 1: identity around being the opposite of the adults who, heard
Speaker 1: him and the disease that lived in his childhood home found,
Speaker 1: him anyways not through, a bottle but through. A screen
Speaker 1: the fly trap had Opened and carl.
Speaker 7: HAD landed.
Speaker 1: I told you at the beginning of this EPISODE that
Speaker 1: i had. A Plan The Fandual bet reset promotion ran
Speaker 1: for ten, days straight, ten tokens ten days. Of bets,
Speaker 1: DAY eleven i, uninstall everything, cash out and. Walk away by.
Speaker 1: Day ten that plan felt LIKE something i told myself
Speaker 1: a long, time ago like a promise you make to
Speaker 1: a version of yourself that doesn't. Exist anymore day. ELEVEN
Speaker 1: came i was on the phone with, my sponsor and
Speaker 1: while we, were talking a notification slid down the top of.
Speaker 1: My screen FanDuel five hundred Dollars bet reset token the
Speaker 1: biggest one they had ever. Sent me on, day eleven
Speaker 1: when the bonuses were supposed to have, Run out it's
Speaker 1: almost like. They knew that's because they. Did know the
Speaker 1: fly trap had been reading my pattern for. Ten days
Speaker 1: it saw what kind OF insect, i was saw the
Speaker 1: deposits the frequent and see the, session lengths and it
Speaker 1: offered the sweetest nectar it had at the EXACT moment
Speaker 1: i was supposed to, FLY away i didn't. Fly away
Speaker 1: if you or someone you know is struggling, with Gambling
Speaker 1: The National Problem gambling helpline is available twenty four to
Speaker 1: seven one eight hundred and five to two two forty
Speaker 1: seven hundred. Free confidential thank you for listening to this
Speaker 1: Episode of tapes from The, dark side our, newest season
Speaker 1: the app on. The phone if you want to support,
Speaker 1: the show you can do so at patreon dot Com
Speaker 1: slash tapes from The, dark side, bonus episodes ad free
Speaker 1: episodes in every episode in uncompressed HIGH quality hd audio until.
Speaker 1: Next time trying to enjoy. THE daylight.
Speaker 3: I never. Gambled before my life once turned twenty one
Speaker 3: and me and my best friend went Out, TO vegas i,
Speaker 3: you know learned how to play BLACKJACK and i started.
Speaker 3: WINNING money i ended up winning like a thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: Out there we were out there for. Six days the
Speaker 3: LAST night i, WAS there i was at At the
Speaker 3: palms Or hard rock, or SOMEWHERE and i don't. REALLY
Speaker 3: didn't i don't really KNOW what i. WAS doing i
Speaker 3: just kept pushing a lot of chips up there and
Speaker 3: kept winning. Every hand, you know, BLACKJACK twenty i was
Speaker 3: just on a roll on a street and we had
Speaker 3: to fly Back. To charlotte our flight. Was leaving, he's like,
Speaker 3: come on we got, to GO and i just had all.
Speaker 3: This money so THEN when i, GOT back i had
Speaker 3: the FEVER and i, was, LIKE man i want to.
Speaker 3: You KNOW so i found out that there was blackjack
Speaker 3: tables Up At. Harris CHEROKEE so i started going up there,
Speaker 3: and gambling and, YOU know i went a, little bit
Speaker 3: lose a, little bit and THEN before i, knew it,
Speaker 3: YOU know i was just getting deeper. Into debt and
Speaker 3: when did it escalate out?
Speaker 7: Of control do.
Speaker 3: You remember Most weekends i'd go up there, and LOSE
Speaker 3: like i felt like, my thousand two thousand and one.
Speaker 3: Week in more, THAN that i quit keeping track. Pretty
Speaker 3: much they had a program where they could ban you
Speaker 3: could ban yourself like self eighty. SIX yourself i did
Speaker 3: THAT and i just never really. WENT back i just
Speaker 3: REALIZED that i can't even go into a, casino really
Speaker 3: you KNOW what, i mean because as SOON as i walk,
Speaker 3: IN there I mean i want to go to a
Speaker 3: black jack table and, start playing because it's so addictive
Speaker 3: and it's, you know the change of luck can happen.
Speaker 3: So fast there was some NIGHTS when i was up
Speaker 3: like five, or, six, ten fifteen twenty thousand dollars up
Speaker 3: right in front. OF me i started like a thousand
Speaker 3: and have and have won like ten. Times that BUT
Speaker 3: then i. WOULDN'T stop i would just, keep gambling give it.
Speaker 3: All back And then i'd go up to the hotel
Speaker 3: Room and i'd get comped hotel rooms and they had
Speaker 3: like a. Diamond car they had this little private Room
Speaker 3: for diamond card Members at harris where it was just
Speaker 3: nothing but just hardcore at. Dambling acts i'd walk in
Speaker 3: there and, look around smoke, a cigarette and go back.
Speaker 3: And PLAY but i can't Say if i'm a real.
Speaker 3: Gambling attic BUT when i get, in, there man if
Speaker 3: something takes Over and i'm, just, like whoa because You lost,
Speaker 3: OH probably i mean the, EXACT amount i. DON'T know
Speaker 3: i would probably say anywhere from fifty two one hundred
Speaker 3: grand maybe more with debt. CREDIT card, I mean i'd
Speaker 3: defile bankruptcy, over it you KNOW if, I would like
Speaker 3: this is fifteen twenty. Years ago i'll tell a STORY
Speaker 3: when i Was In las VEGAS when i first went
Speaker 3: out there in two thousand. And two we're At. THE
Speaker 3: stratosphere i was at a black jack table and that
Speaker 3: was all these police lines and. STUFF everywhere i was
Speaker 3: talking to the dealer and talking. All this, she's, like
Speaker 3: yeah this young kid lost everything he had and threw
Speaker 3: himself from the top the one of the, motel rooms
Speaker 3: jumped off. THE balcony i, was like does this happen?
Speaker 3: A lot, she's like it happens about every. Other day