Speaker 1: Will you waits exist Sis, Welcome back midnight Viewers to
Speaker 1: fuse Goo Fest. Do we have a theme song? HP?
Speaker 1: Do we have a Fusco Fest theme? Something? Easy?
Speaker 2: We I know we don't have anything. I don't know.
Speaker 2: You're well, you're producing these. What do you think? What
Speaker 2: do you want?
Speaker 1: Something bluesy? Obviously?
Speaker 3: Oh I can I yeah, I can provide you. Remember
Speaker 3: after we did Crossroads, I sent you too late. I
Speaker 3: sent you a little blues thing that I had worked up.
Speaker 2: We could use that. It's kind of mozy.
Speaker 1: Working into a thirty second thing. You'll hear that on
Speaker 1: the next few sco Fest everybody, I'm keeping all of
Speaker 1: this in buddy. This is Fusco Fest here on midnight Viewing.
Speaker 1: Joining me as always is our best friend from fucking
Speaker 1: thirty years or so now, mister HP. He's from Noise
Speaker 1: Junkie and he's also from Night Mister Walter's a taxi podcast.
Speaker 2: Very very, very very exciting.
Speaker 3: I'm always excited to do Fusco Fest, but it's been
Speaker 3: a while, fatherm alone, so I'm very excited to talk
Speaker 3: some Fusco with you, sir.
Speaker 1: Now so far on Fusco Fest. Hey, everybody, in case
Speaker 1: you don't know what the fuck we're talking about, but
Speaker 1: we're discussing the works of mister John Fusco, screenwriter extraordinaire.
Speaker 1: Turns out that HP and I have a shared love
Speaker 1: of all of the man's work basically, and figured why
Speaker 1: not dive in so so far in chronological order, we've
Speaker 1: been doing them, and we've had Crossroads Young Guns Young
Speaker 1: Guns too, and next up is of course Thunderheart, which
Speaker 1: is why we're doing The Babe. No, we're just doing
Speaker 1: things a little bit out of order. We've got a
Speaker 1: special guest on our Thunderheart episode. That's a really fucking
Speaker 1: good movie and it deserves a little extra attention, so
Speaker 1: we didn't want to rush through it just for the
Speaker 1: sake of fucking some arbitrary rule about chronology. So instead
Speaker 1: we aren't doing The Babe starring James Cromwell, about a
Speaker 1: tiny pit on a farm in New Zealand. I believe, no, no, no, wait,
Speaker 1: we're doing The Babe about Babe Ruth starring James Cromwell,
Speaker 1: about a guy who likes to hit balls.
Speaker 4: HP.
Speaker 1: If I were to ask you, who are the greatest
Speaker 1: ball players of all time? Is Ruth on there talking
Speaker 1: about Babe Ruth. Everybody, Babe Ruth.
Speaker 2: Babe Ruth. I'm not the biggest baseball fan. I'm more
Speaker 2: of a casual fan.
Speaker 1: Get off of this podcast right now.
Speaker 3: Okay, but yeah, I think for the casual fan like myself, sure,
Speaker 3: Babe Ruth is one of the more prodigious names that
Speaker 3: you'll hear. And also being from Boston or being from
Speaker 3: the Boston area, we have our own checkered history with
Speaker 3: the Bambino, which hate that nickname, I gotta tell you,
Speaker 3: But yeah, I would say Babe Ruth.
Speaker 2: Is one of the greats.
Speaker 3: I mean, his home run record lasted until when the
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy four and that's pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the Bambino not your favorite. How about the
Speaker 1: Sultan of Swat.
Speaker 3: See when you start to give me the Sultan of Swat,
Speaker 3: I start to hear all the names that Apollo Creed
Speaker 3: had for himself in Rocky. Give us some the Master
Speaker 3: of Disaster, the Ayatola of Fistola or something.
Speaker 2: I don't know what.
Speaker 1: Christ Calm down, Apollo, Okay, so we are talking about
Speaker 1: the Babe. This is from nineteen ninety two, written as
Speaker 1: always as all of the movies here on fuscof Has
Speaker 1: written by mister John Fusco. This one was directed by
Speaker 1: Arthur Hiller, starring John Goodman, Kelly McGillis, Triny Alvarado, Bruce
Speaker 1: box Lightner. How excited were you when Bruce box Lightner
Speaker 1: showed up in the fucking movie?
Speaker 3: I was so excited because, full disclosure, this was my
Speaker 3: first time watching the Babe. I missed it and it's
Speaker 3: an Ishola run, so I was very excited to see
Speaker 3: Tron up there on the screen or what scarecrow missus King.
Speaker 3: Bruce box Lightner very much an eighties guy, so I
Speaker 3: was very excited.
Speaker 2: Does he bruce up there?
Speaker 1: I can do no wrong. As I mentioned, James Cromwell
Speaker 1: shows up in it for a bit. Ralph Morero as ping.
Speaker 1: I'm only bringing up Ralph Morrero because my late wife
Speaker 1: Jessica could not pronounce the name of my favorite filmmaker,
Speaker 1: which was George Romero. She would always say George Morrero.
Speaker 1: So to see a man named Ralph Morrero in this film,
Speaker 1: I thought, wow, Jessica would have had a ball. Anyway,
Speaker 1: this is the story of George Ruth, the Babe Ruth
Speaker 1: who the house that Ruth built, The Yankees. The He
Speaker 1: pointed once at the outfield and said, I'm going to
Speaker 1: hit that ball, and then he hit that ball.
Speaker 2: Where did they come from? Where'd you come from?
Speaker 1: Rock from out of nowhere?
Speaker 2: To play inside ball?
Speaker 5: Hit him when they ate, Well, they aren't over the punches,
Speaker 5: So that's where I have him. I used to get
Speaker 5: arrested for that. Now they give me a check from
Speaker 5: a boy.
Speaker 2: He isn't all the bad his life.
Speaker 1: Two of them balla Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: You're making more money than the president. Here's three of ballins.
Speaker 5: Let's have a hell of season.
Speaker 2: He lived his life to make a bottle all rampacks
Speaker 2: last night, like he played the game, you're gonna.
Speaker 1: Do it a son of a gun like that.
Speaker 5: You're still a big kid with forty four home runs
Speaker 5: with the saddest eyes I've ever seen.
Speaker 4: I don't even like beings cool, but I loved it
Speaker 4: watching Sacho run dry did it? Why don't we go
Speaker 4: to your ride? No, guy, you are incorrigible, Nor.
Speaker 5: What babe's gonna sock you a home run? Did that
Speaker 5: make you feel a better? Johnny too?
Speaker 2: That's good?
Speaker 4: Well, No, kiddo, I favorite human. He's an animal.
Speaker 1: He's a God the man was a legends about way Rock.
Speaker 1: The legend was real, John Goodman the babe.
Speaker 3: Sorry to break in that is I believe that is
Speaker 3: actually not a true fact. There's a few things like
Speaker 3: that we're gonna get into, but that actually, it's my
Speaker 3: understand that he did not, in fact, truly call his shot.
Speaker 3: He did point to the picture to say, oh, strike one,
Speaker 3: strike two, but it's unclear whether he truly called his
Speaker 3: shot or was just gesturing to the picture to say,
Speaker 3: let's do this. So just one little bit of an accuracy,
Speaker 3: I have to break in about.
Speaker 1: Now, this was your first time watching the film. This
Speaker 1: was also my first time watching the film. I remember
Speaker 1: when the film came out. I remembered a bit of
Speaker 1: hoopla around it. I certainly remember Genny Ande Garoffolo excoriating
Speaker 1: the film in that she was talking about the treatment
Speaker 1: of women in cinema and how they were expected to
Speaker 1: maintain a ridiculous body image. When John Goodman had to
Speaker 1: lose weight to play Babe Ruth, and he's still too fat.
Speaker 3: He's way too big. Because I went back to just
Speaker 3: to refresh my memory, and I looked at pictures of
Speaker 3: Ruth in his prime and he's They make him out
Speaker 3: to be this moose in the bab but he really wasn't.
Speaker 2: He wasn't crazy.
Speaker 3: I mean compared to modern day athletes. Sure he was
Speaker 3: probably a bit big, but he wasn't as massive as
Speaker 3: John Goodman is. And the fact that he had to
Speaker 3: lose weight, which I think is a funny irony about
Speaker 3: this movie.
Speaker 2: But I thought that was kind of silly.
Speaker 1: You know who he reminds me of looking at the
Speaker 1: actual Babe Ruth, his body time reminded me of John Belushi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like younger John Belushi.
Speaker 1: Right, anytime a fat comedian makes the scene, suddenly they're
Speaker 1: the next John Belushi, because he was the fat comedian. Right.
Speaker 1: I go back and I look at him, and I go,
Speaker 1: he's just fucking big. He's just a big dude, but
Speaker 1: it seems to be mostly muscle under there because he's
Speaker 1: doing fucking backflips.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the same thing goes for Babe Ruth. He was
Speaker 3: a solid individual guy who could knock the.
Speaker 2: Hell out of the ball.
Speaker 3: So, sure he's going to be big, but big doesn't
Speaker 3: mean fat, it doesn't mean overweight.
Speaker 1: So this was your first experience, as it was mine.
Speaker 2: What'd you think it was interesting.
Speaker 3: First thing I did before I even started watching it.
Speaker 2: Let me back up a minute.
Speaker 3: I was surprised to see that Arthur Hiller had directed it.
Speaker 3: I completely spaced on that. Obviously, I know him through reputation.
Speaker 3: Of course, he did Love Story, He did Silver Streak.
Speaker 3: Do you remember Silver Streak with Gene Wilder?
Speaker 1: Of course you do, naturally, Yeah, Richard Pryor absolutely.
Speaker 3: And then a funny connection to Our Night, mister Walter's podcast.
Speaker 3: He also did Teachers, which featured jud Hirsh in a role.
Speaker 1: That's right, and I love that movie. I love a
Speaker 1: lot of Arthur Hiller's movies. Actually, The Lonely Guy I
Speaker 1: think as an underrated Steve Martin gem that he did.
Speaker 1: He also did The in Laws for God's Sake with
Speaker 1: a fucking Alan Alan Arkin, fucking Peter Peter Fowk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 3: So the pedigree was pretty solid as far as I
Speaker 3: was concerned. I was kind of excited by the way.
Speaker 3: Fun fact Arthur Hiller was he used to golf with
Speaker 3: my uncle Martin. I don't know if I ever told
Speaker 3: you that story.
Speaker 1: I remember Uncle Martin, but I didn't know that he
Speaker 1: once golf. That's amazing fun fact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I don't remember how it came up.
Speaker 3: He just was talking about some guy that he was
Speaker 3: golfing with who at the time, Arthur Hiller was the
Speaker 3: president of the Academy of Motion Pictures, Arts and Sciences.
Speaker 3: So that was where my uncle Martin thought that I
Speaker 3: would be interested in it. But then come to find
Speaker 3: out that it was Arthur Hiller who had done all
Speaker 3: these amazing pictures. He my uncle Martin couldn't have cared less.
Speaker 3: I think he was just happy to have somebody to
Speaker 3: golf with.
Speaker 1: But that's there was a lot of way, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Like you see Bill Burr and Star Wars and you're
Speaker 1: just like, he does not give one shit about Star Wars.
Speaker 3: No, but I mean you can tell he loves it
Speaker 3: and interviews and stuff. But so Arthur Hiller directed. Haskell
Speaker 3: Wexler was the DP on this picture. Yeah, mate, Wan
Speaker 3: in the Heat of the Night, One Floor with the
Speaker 3: Cuckoo's Nest. This movie had some pedigree. Elmer Bernstein did
Speaker 3: the music. For God's sake, this seemed like a can't
Speaker 3: miss proposition to me coming into this, Father Malone, and
Speaker 3: if I'm.
Speaker 2: Being perfectly honest, it was.
Speaker 3: I had some problems with the picture, which will break
Speaker 3: down I think first and foremost, if the first thing
Speaker 3: that I had a problem with was John Goodman. Not
Speaker 3: to say that John Goodman isn't a fine actor. He's
Speaker 3: a fantastic actor, but as we just got through saying
Speaker 3: he was not. So he has to play Babe Ruth
Speaker 3: from basically age nineteen through age I don't know, fifty
Speaker 3: one or forty eight or something, or he was like
Speaker 3: his I think his mid forties when he ended his
Speaker 3: career with the Boston Braves.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. He was nineteen in nineteen
Speaker 1: twenty five, I believe, or twenty four when he starts
Speaker 1: his career, and then his career is over in nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty five. So that's what sixteen years, making him thirty
Speaker 1: seven or thirty six. My math is terrible. Nevertheless, he
Speaker 1: not yet forty.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, but that makes it even more vexing, because
Speaker 3: John Goodman isn't believable at nineteen. He looks terrible. He
Speaker 3: looks like somebody who's had a lot of makeup applied.
Speaker 3: He's too big. They squeeze him into this suit. He
Speaker 3: it just it didn't work for me, and then you're
Speaker 3: having him play with or play.
Speaker 1: He's forty, by the way.
Speaker 2: He's so John Goodman is forty when he's.
Speaker 1: He is older than Babe Ruth was. Babe Ruth died
Speaker 1: before getting to the age John Goodman is when he's
Speaker 1: going to play Babe Ruth nearly for his entire lifespan.
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised because he I thought he looked every
Speaker 3: bit his age. Because he's playing next to Bruce box Lightner,
Speaker 3: who's supposed to be his contemporary. He's playing another true
Speaker 3: actual ballplayer named Jumping Joe Dugan.
Speaker 2: And what a great name.
Speaker 1: Man. They had great names back then, they really did.
Speaker 2: But he just he's up there in his prime.
Speaker 3: He's supposed to be in his twenties, and he partially
Speaker 3: the way he's shot, the way the makeup looks on him,
Speaker 3: the die that they use for his hair, it just
Speaker 3: was so unconvincing to me, Father Malone, and it really
Speaker 3: unfortunately that part of it tended to take me out
Speaker 3: of the picture. He didn't lose himself in the role.
Speaker 3: I think somebody should be able to disappear into the
Speaker 3: character of Babe Ruth to make it believable. But let
Speaker 3: me ask you, how did you find John Goodman, his performance,
Speaker 3: his appearance, what have you?
Speaker 1: I think he's wildly miscast. I don't think he looks
Speaker 1: anything like Babe Ruth. I don't think he comes off
Speaker 1: like Babe Ruth. My problem is maybe that for the
Speaker 1: majority of the film, Babe Ruth is an uncouth thug
Speaker 1: of a human being, and John Goodman is just play
Speaker 1: acting at being a thug of a human being. And
Speaker 1: I never believe it. Somebody like Dennis Franz could have
Speaker 1: played Babe Ruth and I would have bought into every
Speaker 1: bit of his Everything untoward about him, everything just gross
Speaker 1: and unrefined, I would have bought, and I would have
Speaker 1: maybe given it the credence I would have given in
Speaker 1: the credence to somebody like Robert de Niro and Raging Ball.
Speaker 3: True, I agree because I think John Goodman fundamentally is
Speaker 3: such a likable actor, such a likable presence, that I
Speaker 3: think what you said about him play acting towards being
Speaker 3: this unrefined brood of a man, because we see him
Speaker 3: do an awful lot of things that we don't agree with.
Speaker 3: I guess they Fusco should be given some credit for
Speaker 3: making this a truly warts and all depiction.
Speaker 2: Of Babe Ruth.
Speaker 3: This is not really this. You could not call this hagiography.
Speaker 3: This is You're getting the worst of it. But that's
Speaker 3: also I think part of the problem, because he's so
Speaker 3: thoroughly unlikable that I don't enjoy spending any time with
Speaker 3: this character, So that as a viewer, that's a real negative.
Speaker 1: Kind of a big problem when he's our lead, right,
Speaker 1: it is what here's the thing, but Travis Bickle, I
Speaker 1: always go back to a taxi driver. Travis Bickle is
Speaker 1: also a despicable character who you would not want to
Speaker 1: spend one minute of your life beside. And yet I'm
Speaker 1: with that fucking guy. I feel his pain, I understand
Speaker 1: his isolation, and I want more somehow, Whereas this is
Speaker 1: just a fucking kind of an asshole, unrepentantly provocatively rude
Speaker 1: at times, to the degree.
Speaker 3: Where I started to wonder, does he have something wrong
Speaker 3: with him, something seriously clinically.
Speaker 2: Wrong with him in his head?
Speaker 3: Because he's especially early on, he's childlike. He doesn't understand
Speaker 3: the ways and means of social interaction. But the things
Speaker 3: he does are so far over the top gross and
Speaker 3: mean spirit in some cases, and just it's hard for
Speaker 3: me to see what the other characters saw in him
Speaker 3: besides the fact that he was a home run machine,
Speaker 3: that he was a hell of a ballplayer, but otherwise
Speaker 3: he I kind of sympathize with these managers that are
Speaker 3: shown in this who are supposed to I'm assuming they're
Speaker 3: supposed to be antagonists, where you know, hey, let babe
Speaker 3: be babe, let him do his thing. He's but I'm like, no, no, no, Babe.
Speaker 3: Is he made a commitment to the team. He's got
Speaker 3: to show up on time, he's got to be in shape,
Speaker 3: he's got to take it seriously.
Speaker 2: But he does none of those things.
Speaker 3: And maybe that's true to the actual individual Babe Ruth,
Speaker 3: but that doesn't make for fun watching. It was frustrating
Speaker 3: to me. More often than.
Speaker 1: Not, I couldn't understand the point of view at times.
Speaker 1: There's a scene where he is being shown off by Frizzy,
Speaker 1: the owner of the Red Sox, and there's a fancy
Speaker 1: cotillion going on with all these stuffed shirts and he's
Speaker 1: showing off Babe Ruth and he's told he's given Babe
Speaker 1: Ruth a joke to recite once they get him up
Speaker 1: on stage, but he forgets the joke, so instead he
Speaker 1: does the only joke he really knows as a surefire winner,
Speaker 1: pull my finger, and he fart's and everyone is just
Speaker 1: disgusted by it, and then he's a little embarrassed. Then
Speaker 1: end of scene. And I kept thinking, am I supposed
Speaker 1: to be enjoying it? Am I supposed to be the
Speaker 1: audience perspective and find his find this behavior boorish?
Speaker 2: Or am I.
Speaker 1: Supposed to be with him sticking it to the stuff shirts?
Speaker 1: Like why can't they take a joke? I didn't know.
Speaker 3: The movie doesn't really take a side on that, because
Speaker 3: we're supposed to cheer him for his achievements, But at
Speaker 3: the same time, are we supposed to condemn his off
Speaker 3: the field antics, because a lot of that I'm sure
Speaker 3: is totally true. That he was a womanizer, He did
Speaker 3: indulge his passions, maybe a little too much. But I
Speaker 3: just found and actually that was another thing that I
Speaker 3: found a little confusing. Father alone, is this is a
Speaker 3: baseball movie. Now, at the time, just you probably remember
Speaker 3: baseball was big in the movies.
Speaker 2: Around this time.
Speaker 3: There were so many movies. There was a little big
Speaker 3: league there was a league of their own, the sand
Speaker 3: Lot Rookie of the Year, mister baseball, baseball was big.
Speaker 1: Movies, Field of Dreams, Field of Dreams, Bull dur huge
Speaker 1: and some of these are bona fide major league.
Speaker 3: That's which I think is probably one of my favorites,
Speaker 3: because that's that seems for me, that's truest to the
Speaker 3: idea of the game and the players of the game.
Speaker 2: It's just funny. It's a fun movie.
Speaker 1: All right, you might stop, stop, stop before you go further.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. What's the best baseball movie?
Speaker 3: The best baseball mo oh now anytime period or yeah,
Speaker 3: best movie that you've enjoyed about the sport of baseball.
Speaker 1: I don't you are a sports fan, you know me.
Speaker 1: I cannot stand and sports. I don't get it. I
Speaker 1: just don't understand them at all. But I fucking love
Speaker 1: sports movie. Hmmm, research, I already have my answer.
Speaker 3: No, I actually I already I anticipated this, and but
Speaker 3: now I remember my favorite baseball movie, The Natural.
Speaker 1: That seems to be a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: fans' favorites. Favorite baseball movie. And why is that?
Speaker 2: Oh? Why is that?
Speaker 3: Because I think it captures, if not the actual grandeur
Speaker 3: of the game. It captures that, it captures the mythology.
Speaker 2: Behind the game. These larger than life characters.
Speaker 3: I love the character of Roy Hobbs because he's so
Speaker 3: larger than life. He's got that bat wonder boy. I
Speaker 3: think it's called He's he hits. There's something very iconic
Speaker 3: about that character, and I think it The managers of
Speaker 3: the team are all that they all feel real. All
Speaker 3: the actors inhabit their roles as I think they feel
Speaker 3: authentic to me.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm trying to say. There's it's larger than.
Speaker 3: Life, and I just think it's shot really well. The
Speaker 3: soundtrack is amazing. I hate to use the word again,
Speaker 3: but it's iconic. The scene where he hits the ball
Speaker 3: into the lights at the end, it's you can't get
Speaker 3: any better than that for me for a baseball movie.
Speaker 3: Not in all times sports movie necessarily, but if you're
Speaker 3: limiting me to baseball, that's the one for me.
Speaker 1: Certainly. That shot of him hitting the ball that bursts
Speaker 1: the lights over the field is one of the most
Speaker 1: beautiful images in any sports movie ever. I totally agree
Speaker 1: with that. My favorite baseball movie, however, is from nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight and that's Eight Men Out. Ah, that's a
Speaker 1: good one, written and directed by John sALS about the
Speaker 1: Black Sox scandal of nineteen nineteen, which takes place it's
Speaker 1: contemporary to this.
Speaker 2: But what makes you.
Speaker 3: Appreciate that one over some of these more sort of
Speaker 3: popular choices. What is it about eight Men Out that
Speaker 3: speaks to you?
Speaker 1: It shows? Okay, First of all, I love this time period,
Speaker 1: So that's the thing I really did respond to in
Speaker 1: the Babe as well, something about those uniforms and that
Speaker 1: time period and just seeing a crowd shot of men
Speaker 1: and voters sharing us on. Something about that in the
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen early twenties time period is great. Second, it's
Speaker 1: John Sales, who is one of the best out there.
Speaker 1: He always has been. We should probably cover him at
Speaker 1: some point. And I love that scandal. I love it. It's
Speaker 1: the first time that it's the first time we realized
Speaker 1: that there was major corruption going on in this most
Speaker 1: beloved of American pastimes, that there was something deeper and
Speaker 1: darker going on. And it also manages to to me
Speaker 1: embody the spirit of baseball because in the form of
Speaker 1: John Cusack's character's name I can't remember right now, but
Speaker 1: he's the sort of one decent guy who gets fucked
Speaker 1: at the end by the thing and well, I guess
Speaker 1: was Joe did too. But anyway, I just, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I love that movie. I love the drama of it
Speaker 1: because it's it is a sports movie. We get tons
Speaker 1: of great sports shit. It's also a courtroom drama. It's
Speaker 1: also this like corporate political intrigue movie. It's I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just and the one thing I really like about
Speaker 1: it is the stuff on the ballfield is really well shot,
Speaker 1: and it feels vital and makes you feel like you're
Speaker 1: like at the game and crossover with night mister Walters.
Speaker 1: Christopher Lloyd is in it as I don't know if
Speaker 1: he's playing Arnold Rothstein, but he's he's one of Rothstein's guys.
Speaker 3: I gotta go back and rewatch that. That is a
Speaker 3: great choice that never even occurred to me. But you're
Speaker 3: what you just said takes me to One of my
Speaker 3: big problems with the Babe is that the on the
Speaker 3: field stuff, the actual ball games, they seem totally disinterested
Speaker 3: in giving us any sort of context with any of
Speaker 3: his achievements or any of the sort of psychology.
Speaker 2: In any of these games. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Every scene that takes place on the ballfield is completely
Speaker 3: interchangeable for me, unless they had a little text on
Speaker 3: the bottom of the screen that tells me it's the
Speaker 3: Tigers versus the Socks in nineteen seventeen or whatever. It
Speaker 3: all looked the same to me, and it all boils
Speaker 3: down to him just getting a few pitches, strike one,
Speaker 3: strike two, Boom, he hits a home run. Every scene
Speaker 3: felt like that to me. There was no interesting coverage
Speaker 3: of the game, giving me a flow, something to get
Speaker 3: my blood pumping, to get excited about what's happening on
Speaker 3: the field. There was none of that what was your
Speaker 3: take on the field action.
Speaker 1: It's the thing that could have saved the movie, if
Speaker 1: I hate to say it, because we praised him pretty
Speaker 1: heavily at the top, but Arthur Hiller was the wrong
Speaker 1: guy to direct this movie. This is a situation where
Speaker 1: it just seems like everyone who seemed perfect was the
Speaker 1: incorrect choice. Because Arthur Hiller is a great like with
Speaker 1: comedy and physical comedy, but he's not like greatest crafter
Speaker 1: of images. Necessarily. I didn't feel any of the electric
Speaker 1: snap you get when you're playing sports or watching sports.
Speaker 1: Not one time. There was nothing magical going on. There
Speaker 1: needed to be some fucking magic and that doesn't come
Speaker 1: from the script or the actors. The fucking filmmaker needs
Speaker 1: to do that.
Speaker 3: This was This is not I mean, if you really
Speaker 3: dig down deep, this is not really a sports movie.
Speaker 3: This is ultimately a melodrama about the babe and his
Speaker 3: life off of the field. And maybe that's shame on
Speaker 3: me for going into this hoping that it was going
Speaker 3: to be a sports movie in the more traditional mold,
Speaker 3: but we didn't get that here it really is. So
Speaker 3: we didn't get the Arthur Hiller of those other pictures.
Speaker 3: We got the Arthur Hiller of Love Story, which it
Speaker 3: never pretended to be anything other than this sappy melodrama
Speaker 3: about these two kids at Harvard. That's what we're getting here.
Speaker 3: It's I wanted to see the babe and his baseball
Speaker 3: exploits a little more or a lot more, and I
Speaker 3: got none of that.
Speaker 1: If this had been a slice of life of Babe Ruth,
Speaker 1: maybe like going through the divorce or getting that we
Speaker 1: find out about his kid, or any of the travails,
Speaker 1: Like if we had focused intimately on that and just
Speaker 1: jettison to baseball entirely. Then I think Arthur Hiller would
Speaker 1: have been the perfect filmmaker for this. Unfortunately, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of goddamn baseball in it, and none of it
Speaker 1: is exciting.
Speaker 3: And would you go to see a movie about Babe
Speaker 3: Ruth that did not have at least the promise of
Speaker 3: baseball action, baseball footage, everything that goes.
Speaker 2: Into sports movie.
Speaker 3: I don't know that I would have been that excited
Speaker 3: if this had been billed as a melodrama that covered
Speaker 3: everything but his baseball exploits. That's not interesting to me.
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know, But.
Speaker 1: Remember the movie Wonderland. It was with Val Kilmer.
Speaker 2: Actually, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, John Holmes movie.
Speaker 1: Right where the movie begins and there's an opening crawl
Speaker 1: which tells us all about John Holmes's exploits in the
Speaker 1: entertainment in the aldonfl entertainment industry, about how crazy it
Speaker 1: was and how fucking fantastic it all was, and then
Speaker 1: it says this movie takes place after that, and you're like, ah,
Speaker 1: like literally in the theater that I saw it, and
Speaker 1: somebody went, ah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 3: That part of it was rather disappointing, But maybe that's
Speaker 3: just not the movie that they were trying. Maybe they
Speaker 3: tried to have their cake and eat it too, But
Speaker 3: I don't see how you can have a movie about
Speaker 3: Babe Ruth and not have equal coverage given to the
Speaker 3: baseball stuff, and not have the baseball stuff be super
Speaker 3: exciting and super kinetic.
Speaker 2: Well maybe not.
Speaker 3: Doesn't have to be like jump cuts and eighty style,
Speaker 3: but it has to be interesting to the viewer. And
Speaker 3: it was, like I said, it all it boiled down
Speaker 3: to was him at the plate smacking a home run,
Speaker 3: go on to the next scene.
Speaker 2: That it was boring to me.
Speaker 1: You said, this is a melodrama, and that's ultimately what
Speaker 1: it reminded me of. And it ultimately the problem, and
Speaker 1: I apologize, mister Fusco. The problem with the screenplay is
Speaker 1: this feels like a biography from the nineteen fifties or sixties.
Speaker 1: As far as it's construction, it's the life of the guy.
Speaker 1: So because that's our story, we're telling the story of
Speaker 1: Babe Ruth. There's no plot at all. It's just a
Speaker 1: series of events of his life, which is how every
Speaker 1: biography has always been done. This is more warts and
Speaker 1: all than you would have gotten in the fifties or sixties,
Speaker 1: but it's not that far off.
Speaker 2: Honestly, it was very conventional in that way.
Speaker 3: This could have come, like you said, like prior to
Speaker 3: the Yankees, a movie like that, which is just the
Speaker 3: kind of high level view of the of the athlete,
Speaker 3: and like I said, more hay geography, this isn't this
Speaker 3: isn't that. But it comes damn close, and it certainly doesn't. It.
Speaker 3: Just the disheartening part of it is it just seemed
Speaker 3: disinterested in all of the stuff that should have been
Speaker 3: really excited at a slam dunk, like the baseball scenes.
Speaker 2: It just didn't seem to care about that part of it.
Speaker 1: Not only that, but okay, here's my hot take on
Speaker 1: the movie. Watching the movie and I'm not enjoying it, right,
Speaker 1: And then we get to about an hour and a
Speaker 1: half into it and suddenly there's a teammate you just mentioned,
Speaker 1: the Pride of the Yankees, iron Man, who's a competitor
Speaker 1: of Ruts. And this is like nineteen twenty six, twenty seven,
Speaker 1: And if you look at Baber's life around then, nineteen
Speaker 1: twenty six twenty seven, that's around the time when he
Speaker 1: hit the most home runs he ever hit sixty home runs.
Speaker 1: That should be the most exciting part why this movie
Speaker 1: did not begin in nineteen twenty six. I didn't need
Speaker 1: to know one fucking thing about his early life. You
Speaker 1: know why, because I still don't know one fucking thing
Speaker 1: about his early life.
Speaker 2: And the thing with Luke Eereg was they had a
Speaker 2: real rivalry. They did not like each.
Speaker 3: Other for most of their playing game, and they do
Speaker 3: pay some lip service to that where there's a scene
Speaker 3: where Babe Ruth is on the down the downward sort
Speaker 3: of trajectory and Greg is on the upswing and Greg
Speaker 3: hits a home run, and I think Babe Ruth is
Speaker 3: just sulking saying, ah, lucky, lucky hit. But they didn't
Speaker 3: do anything. By the way, fun fact, the guy who
Speaker 3: played lou Gareg in this movie is an actor named
Speaker 3: Michael McGrady. Did you recognize who that was?
Speaker 2: Father Malone?
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: Now, let me preface this by saying, I'm going to
Speaker 3: pepper more of these things. And I also wasn't really
Speaker 3: enjoying a lot of what I was seeing in this movie.
Speaker 3: So but fortunately for me, this movie is positively peppered
Speaker 3: with interesting actors in little, tiny roles. Here and there,
Speaker 3: and this was one of them. So the actor Mike
Speaker 3: McGrady was in the movie Back to School. Now, think
Speaker 3: about the scene and Back to School where.
Speaker 1: I know exactly okay, go ahead, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3: It's after Rodney Dangerfield does twist and shout and one
Speaker 3: of the football players come in complaining that some anarchists
Speaker 3: have like spray painted or they threw paint all over
Speaker 3: their rally. And the head football player is the guy
Speaker 3: who played lou Gareg. This actor Michael McGrady, he's the
Speaker 3: guy who says he's holding Robert Downey Junior by the face,
Speaker 3: and he says, you call his mother, you tell him
Speaker 3: he's never coming home.
Speaker 2: I said, that's crazy. You know this guy. I was
Speaker 2: tickled by that.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious. Now I didn't even know that. That's amazing.
Speaker 3: There's a few others I'll bring up when they come up.
Speaker 3: But actually here's another one. Rooth's dad, bay Ruth's dad.
Speaker 3: There's a scene where he brings his son to the
Speaker 3: school for boys whatever it's called.
Speaker 2: Actor named Robert.
Speaker 1: Swan, Saint Mary's Industrial School for Boys.
Speaker 2: Very bleak.
Speaker 3: The actor's name is Robert Swan. It's hard to see,
Speaker 3: because honestly, a lot of this movie was murky and
Speaker 3: didn't really wasn't had it was very crisp. But the
Speaker 3: actor Robert Swan, you know, he's been in a bunch
Speaker 3: of things. What I remember him from was he was
Speaker 3: the Mountie captain in the movie The Untouchables. We do
Speaker 3: not proove of your methods.
Speaker 1: I love that guy. Yeah, he was the data. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so credy, you know what, let's give it. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So that scene they drop him off at the school orphanage, right, Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you assume that he was now an orphan?
Speaker 2: Did I assume he was? I'm not.
Speaker 3: My assumption, as just as a viewer, was that they
Speaker 3: were going to come back and get him at some point.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize.
Speaker 3: I don't know how true that is. I don't think
Speaker 3: that's totally true that they just left him there for
Speaker 3: twelve years to fend for himself. I think I think
Speaker 3: there's a little more contact than that. But I didn't
Speaker 3: assume that he was going to be there for twelve years,
Speaker 3: which is awful.
Speaker 2: Why what did you think?
Speaker 1: No, that is what happened, actually, and it's really horrible.
Speaker 3: I just I thought his they I thought they had
Speaker 3: some contact with his parents over the years. I don't
Speaker 3: know about his mother, but I thought his father was
Speaker 3: still around it. It's terrible that's not the case.
Speaker 2: It's sad.
Speaker 1: No, they never came back for him, and I do
Speaker 1: think they might have had some course bonds, but they
Speaker 1: his father, I guess, often promised to come but never did.
Speaker 3: That's terrible, but no, I guess I just I didn't.
Speaker 3: Just as a compassionate person, maybe I hoped that they
Speaker 3: would not leave him there to just let the brothers
Speaker 3: deal with them.
Speaker 1: But sad, you know, they I just Okay. Triny Elvarado,
Speaker 1: who I think is great in this mission, I think
Speaker 1: she's doing a really great job considering she just needs
Speaker 1: to be reacting to all of his terrible behavior and
Speaker 1: then forgiving him when she gets a gift.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's quite natural. She had a moment at this time.
Speaker 3: I remember going to see Stella. I think that might
Speaker 3: have been her one of her first movies, and she
Speaker 3: was in Little Women choosing a bunch of stuff around.
Speaker 1: She was the drummer in satisfaction Baby.
Speaker 2: That's right, Like I said, she had a moment.
Speaker 1: The Justine Bateman classic I saw that in the theater.
Speaker 1: Liam Neesen is in that fucking room.
Speaker 2: You saw satisfaction in the theater.
Speaker 1: Hb up until I'd say, two thousand and ten, I
Speaker 1: saw everything in the I.
Speaker 3: Just said that, having just admitted that I saw Stella
Speaker 3: in the theater. So I guess there goes my argument,
Speaker 3: so it's no longer valid.
Speaker 1: What's next? Oh okay, So we're talking about Triny Albarado
Speaker 1: here I interrupted you, and we're talking about that character
Speaker 1: in particular, who was He was nineteen, she was sixteen
Speaker 1: when they married, and things were fine for a few
Speaker 1: years there for lived in Boston for five years, they
Speaker 1: lived in the back Bay. We don't really see any
Speaker 1: of that. Time is a problem in this because they
Speaker 1: spend so much of it, and just giving us a
Speaker 1: title card doesn't mean a fucking thing.
Speaker 3: Honestly, there's not a lot of sign posting in this movie.
Speaker 3: You're right, you would never have thought that he was
Speaker 3: supposed to be nineteen when they met and fell in love,
Speaker 3: because he looks every bit that forty year old with
Speaker 3: his dyed hair.
Speaker 1: Anyway, go ahead, now, look, if you want to do
Speaker 1: this expose of Ruth, you know he does do some
Speaker 1: horrendous things, like basically every time he acts out, he
Speaker 1: just brings something home as a present, and then that
Speaker 1: smooths things over. He's seen in the paper. He's crashed
Speaker 1: a car on a drunken spree with a sixteen year
Speaker 1: old girl. It's in the fucking newspapers. She's thumbtacking it
Speaker 1: to the wall in the house. And so he shows
Speaker 1: up with a pair of horses, and that's going to
Speaker 1: smooth things over. It's okay, baby, I bunch, just some horses,
Speaker 1: which leads to the ultimate which is he brings home
Speaker 1: a child because they can't have children, because she wants
Speaker 1: a child this whole time. They want to start a family,
Speaker 1: and he brings it home as if he's gotten it
Speaker 1: from an adoption agency, when the fact is this is
Speaker 1: his child, but from one of his mistresses.
Speaker 2: I read that also.
Speaker 3: I wasn't aware of that, and because I'm watching that
Speaker 3: scene where he brings this child home, and just on
Speaker 3: the face of it, it's a pretty scary thing, like
Speaker 3: how can you just bring home a baby adoption? Maybe
Speaker 3: adoptions were a little more loosey goosey back in the
Speaker 3: teens or the twenties, but the fact is but you
Speaker 3: said three or four seasons, three or four scenes before
Speaker 3: he's bringing home horses to smooth things over. Now he's
Speaker 3: bringing home a baby girl to smooth things over. So
Speaker 3: then I had to go, all right, I need to
Speaker 3: know the real story behind this child. Did he truly
Speaker 3: just adopt a baby and bring it home? And that's
Speaker 3: when I read, like you did. I read today that
Speaker 3: oh no, this was as this was a birth of
Speaker 3: one of his mistresses, so it was actually his blood relative.
Speaker 1: And they don't cover that.
Speaker 3: They don't, which I think is a much more interesting
Speaker 3: thing like line to follow.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, man, this look, the ultimate sin of this
Speaker 1: movie is it's trying to fucking tell too much. I
Speaker 1: say this every time we talk about a biography. Larry
Speaker 1: Karazuski and Scott Alexander figured out the fucking method to
Speaker 1: make a biography, which is fine, to a moment that
Speaker 1: person is important, and tell that story. And they could
Speaker 1: have told this story. They could have told us if want,
Speaker 1: if we want to know the story of Babe Ruth
Speaker 1: and his family life and all of this fucked up
Speaker 1: shit he was doing, that would be fascinating. But we're
Speaker 1: not getting that. But we are being told that story
Speaker 1: without some of those details. Obviously we're getting all of that.
Speaker 1: This movie starts to be seven years old. But don't
Speaker 1: do that too much.
Speaker 2: It was too much, And I agree Yarzuski. Those movies, Edward.
Speaker 3: They're masterclasses and how to do a biography, to make
Speaker 3: it interesting, make it funny, make it poignant, which this
Speaker 3: wants to be all of those things. It wants to
Speaker 3: tug at the heart strings. And I'm just left cold
Speaker 3: by the whole thing because it just doesn't really it's
Speaker 3: not adding up for me as a viewer watching.
Speaker 1: This People Versus Larry Flint, Karazuski and Alexander's screenplay there
Speaker 1: that even opens with the scene of Larry Flint as
Speaker 1: a child, and I don't mind because it's fucking brief.
Speaker 1: It just like sets up who this fucking guy is.
Speaker 1: And then we jump right into the story and we
Speaker 1: get the story from here to here. And they actually
Speaker 1: do a span of time in that movie that's about
Speaker 1: at least at ten or fifteen year period, which is
Speaker 1: what this movie is essentially telling us from nine human
Speaker 1: from age nineteen till thirty six. But it's just a
Speaker 1: series of events that happened as opposed to it doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like we're on a train going anywhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's You're right, it doesn't.
Speaker 3: There's no real momentum that's carrying you through this something
Speaker 3: that is it's leading up to. I think you're absolutely
Speaker 3: right on that. It just and maybe that's why.
Speaker 2: I just was. It just felt inert to me.
Speaker 3: It didn't really have a lot of snap, like you said,
Speaker 3: like a good sports movie should have snap. Any movie
Speaker 3: that has emotion that has some interesting aspects to it
Speaker 3: should grab you.
Speaker 2: And I was never grabbed in that way.
Speaker 1: What did you like about the movie I was thinking about.
Speaker 3: I'm a little conflicted about one thing. Decided if I.
Speaker 2: Really like it or not.
Speaker 3: I'm a little I'm at loggerheads about the soundtrack. About
Speaker 3: Elmer Bernstein's soundtrack. Is it Bernstein or Bernstein? I keep
Speaker 3: mispronouncing it.
Speaker 2: I think it's Bernstein, So Bernstein, Elmer Bernstein, who I love?
Speaker 1: I know, I just hp Did I just ask you
Speaker 1: to name something you liked about it? Now you're gonna
Speaker 1: slag off Elmer Bernstein.
Speaker 3: No, I'm saying that. I think it's I think it's
Speaker 3: a good soundtrack. But my dilemma is I don't think
Speaker 3: it's a good soundtrack for this movie. I think objectively
Speaker 3: it's a great soundtrack. It has the sort of fanfare
Speaker 3: of horns. It wants to make the movie exciting. It
Speaker 3: wants to be to make it propulsive in a way
Speaker 3: that the actual story isn't. So I guess in isolation,
Speaker 3: I really like the music because I think Emma Bernstein
Speaker 3: is a fantastic composer. I just don't think it was
Speaker 3: the right match for the Again, it's something that doesn't
Speaker 3: really match the tone of the movie.
Speaker 1: Yes, I thought his score would have been great in
Speaker 1: that nineteen fifties or sixties version of this movie, and
Speaker 1: that's it.
Speaker 3: It's a real throwback soundtrack, which maybe that's maybe I
Speaker 3: just wanted something a little bit more modern and a
Speaker 3: little more subdued. But this year getting the like I said,
Speaker 3: fanfare of horns as he's calling his shot out to
Speaker 3: center field. It wants to be exciting and it wants
Speaker 3: to give you that feeling of Wow, this guy's a
Speaker 3: sports giant. But it just didn't. But I objectively, I
Speaker 3: think it's a great soundtrack.
Speaker 1: Do you know that Babe Ruth had a vaudeville show
Speaker 1: in between seasons while he was on the Yankees.
Speaker 3: I've heard that, and I think the trailer had a
Speaker 3: scene with him doing his show, but we don't actually
Speaker 3: see any of that in the movie itself.
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 1: Do you know that he was making triple his salary
Speaker 1: outside of his Yankee salary.
Speaker 2: With endorsements and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yes, Babe Ruth was a fucking superstar. Babe Ruth was
Speaker 1: the first fucking sports superstar. He was the endorse he
Speaker 1: made everything, he did everything, and we don't That's an
Speaker 1: angle we could have gone on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was.
Speaker 3: I was actually on the Wikipedia page. I think they
Speaker 3: make reference. I guess he starred in a silent movie,
Speaker 3: which unfortunately has been lost as many of these. I'm
Speaker 3: sure a lot of movies from that time period of loss.
Speaker 2: But I'd love to see that Babe Ruth acting in
Speaker 2: a silent movie. That'd be awesome.
Speaker 1: There is footage of him. There's plenty of footage of
Speaker 1: Babe Ruth if you want to see it. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: he would show up in things as Babe Ruth and
Speaker 1: here's my friend, Babe Ruth.
Speaker 3: Sure, I just I it's just one of those things.
Speaker 3: I think it would be interesting to see because I
Speaker 3: don't know silent movie acting, and seeing him do that
Speaker 3: sort of pantomiming I think would have been interesting because
Speaker 3: I've seen all the usual footage of him, like swinging
Speaker 3: the bad and winking and trotting out the bases and
Speaker 3: stuff I can't I can't get over by the way,
Speaker 3: it makes me more and more annoyed how big John
Speaker 3: Goodman is in this Just he's too big. I would
Speaker 3: have loved to have seen, like you said, like Dennis
Speaker 3: Franz or something, someone who's a little more felt.
Speaker 2: I think it would have been more impactful.
Speaker 3: When he finally got because the whole point of it
Speaker 3: is as when he and later in life, is when
Speaker 3: he really let himself go, and that's when the jeers
Speaker 3: of hey, get out of here, you too, You can't
Speaker 3: run the bases anymore, You sucked. That would have been
Speaker 3: much more impactful if you see the younger, more robust
Speaker 3: babe Ruth, who could really do it. Let me ask you,
Speaker 3: father Malone, what's something you really loved about this movie?
Speaker 1: I thought the fucking production design and the costumes were spectacular.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 3: Actually, you're right, it actually seemed very spot on. The
Speaker 3: uniforms and everything sure.
Speaker 1: And just the people on the streets there. There are
Speaker 1: hundreds of extras in this movie, not discounting just the
Speaker 1: scenes in the stadium. There are tons of on the
Speaker 1: street sequences. He's riding motorcycles on fucking sidewalks and just
Speaker 1: like running into people, and all of that seems like
Speaker 1: it could be back lot. I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was or not. And I think that's a fucking triumph
Speaker 1: of the movie and the and the cinematography during those sequences.
Speaker 1: And it's so easy in a big old period piece
Speaker 1: like this to have at least a portion of the
Speaker 1: costumes look like costumes, and none of them did here.
Speaker 1: It all looked like people from the twenties, and.
Speaker 2: It looked authentic. I totally agree. It looked authentic.
Speaker 3: There's a scene where Babe has he's gotten lost or
Speaker 3: they can't find him, and finally his second wife and
Speaker 3: Bruce box Lightner's character find him and they take him
Speaker 3: to like to basically shower him to sober him up
Speaker 3: because he's drunk, and Bruce box Lightner is taking off
Speaker 3: his pants so that they can bathe them. And I'm
Speaker 3: watching this and you can tell that the material of
Speaker 3: the pants It's not just some kind of like fake
Speaker 3: textile that you would have now, not spandex, but something
Speaker 3: like you could see that the material was basically like
Speaker 3: a cotton because the way it's folding and rumpling as
Speaker 3: he's pulling it off. The hats, like the baseball hats
Speaker 3: all have that like very distinct twenties profile with a
Speaker 3: very small brim, and it all that all looked very
Speaker 3: The look and feel of it was great.
Speaker 2: I totally agree with you.
Speaker 1: There now about those uniforms. Do you think those were
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable? Was George Costanza right? Should we have brought
Speaker 1: should we have brought back the cotton uniforms? I think
Speaker 1: we should. The look of them is so great.
Speaker 2: It is great.
Speaker 3: But wasn't he proven wrong because didn't they try to
Speaker 3: someone like was it like what the hell's his name?
Speaker 3: Didn't didn't Derek Jeter like slide into home and because
Speaker 3: it was cotton, it all basically basically all eroded when
Speaker 3: he took his slide.
Speaker 2: And he got a bruise or something on his leg.
Speaker 3: Wasn't that the whole thing where it couldn't hold up
Speaker 3: to sliding into home?
Speaker 1: It's not what it was. I don't know, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Everyone should be wearing those uniforms.
Speaker 2: It they're also very baggy.
Speaker 3: I just think that's part of the charm and the
Speaker 3: look of it is when you see one of those
Speaker 3: old tiny pitchers do the old time wind up, and
Speaker 3: it's the uniforms are basically hanging off of them because
Speaker 3: they're not very well tailored at that time. There was
Speaker 3: a charm to that. But I guess I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm fine with modern day textiles.
Speaker 1: I guess, oh, the profile of those uniforms, man.
Speaker 2: But you'd want those little beanies to come back to hell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and those big wonky gloves that just are like
Speaker 1: a real glove. It's just a leather, like a Mickey
Speaker 1: mouse hand.
Speaker 2: I see what you're saying. I don't know, maybe maybe
Speaker 2: they should.
Speaker 3: It's funny because in football occasionally they'll have a game
Speaker 3: and they'll do throwback uniforms.
Speaker 1: Would they have helmet?
Speaker 2: No, they don't go that far.
Speaker 3: But like for the Patriots, they'll go back to the
Speaker 3: old pat Patriot logo of the patriot.
Speaker 2: Who's hiking the ball.
Speaker 3: But I guess my point is they don't ever do
Speaker 3: anything quite like that with baseball, and I think it's
Speaker 3: a missed opportunity. If they all have the knickerbockers and
Speaker 3: like the hat and the old style gloves like you described,
Speaker 3: that would be.
Speaker 1: Great, just an exit game. What would be wrong with that?
Speaker 3: I think it would be if it would be good
Speaker 3: for a few laughs. And I think if it's just
Speaker 3: I mean, look, they play so many games in a season.
Speaker 3: What is it, one hundred and eighty two games, like
Speaker 3: or one hundred and sixty two games? Excuse me, you
Speaker 3: can't take one meaningless game and just dress them up
Speaker 3: as they were in nineteen nineteen.
Speaker 2: I think that'd be hilarious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a joke on Futurama because the blurns ball
Speaker 1: is what it is in the future, and they say, yeah,
Speaker 1: oh no, they jazzed it up back in the twenty
Speaker 1: third century and baseball doesn't need Hey they chested it up.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: I like the way.
Speaker 3: I like your the way you're thinking on this. I
Speaker 3: think that would bring a lot of people to the sport.
Speaker 3: I think, I mean, who wouldn't want to see these
Speaker 3: guys playing in these old timey uniforms.
Speaker 2: That'd be awesome.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, clearly, they don't need any attendance isn't
Speaker 1: waning at the ballpark at these days. But we're getting
Speaker 1: some here in Las Vegas. Everybody, We're getting a ball team.
Speaker 1: You are, yeah, man, we're still the Athletics.
Speaker 2: Oh so that actually is happening.
Speaker 1: The Las Vegas A's they just did. They just approved
Speaker 1: the stadium.
Speaker 3: They're not even changing the name. It's they're gonna stay
Speaker 3: the A's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, what kind.
Speaker 2: Of sucks the.
Speaker 3: Las Vegas Dealers or the Aces or something that would be.
Speaker 2: That's a missed opportunity right there.
Speaker 1: Next up basketball, Looking at you, Celtics.
Speaker 2: It's a tough week for Celtics fans.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Boston, we get the Green Monster, we get
Speaker 1: the Green Monster Kid.
Speaker 3: A little bit, but it's again, these ballparks are so
Speaker 3: interchangeably filmed in this movie that it's hard to get
Speaker 3: any sense for that.
Speaker 1: It said Fenway Park on the screen, and I went, hey,
Speaker 1: we're at Fenway, And then they showed a green wall
Speaker 1: and I went, hey, the Green Monster.
Speaker 3: But they also did that thing that I hate. I
Speaker 3: think you brought this up when we did the Late
Speaker 3: Lamented Banchick podcast. At one point they're playing in Fenway
Speaker 3: Park and the Red Sox manager. I think Babe Ruth
Speaker 3: hits a home run or something, and the Red Sox
Speaker 3: manager says, no one's ever done that at Fenway, Like
Speaker 3: his emphasis is to totally on the wrong. It should
Speaker 3: have been Fenway, the hard syllable on the first syllable.
Speaker 3: But he says Fenway, which tells me that I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's they should have caught that. It just seemed silly.
Speaker 3: It's like scull A Square's talking about that.
Speaker 1: That's the big one. Yeah, Scully Square. If you look
Speaker 1: at the word Scully written out s c O l
Speaker 1: l A Y, Yes, Scully that's what it says. Right. No,
Speaker 1: not if you're from Boston and there's a Scully Square
Speaker 1: reference in the Perfect Storm, and he shouldn't even be
Speaker 1: mentioning Scully Square. Scully Square has been government center for
Speaker 1: fucking ever. But fucking George Glooney's out there talking about
Speaker 1: Scullay Square. I'm like, what, First of all, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: be talking about it. Second of all, you wouldn't be
Speaker 1: saying it that way. Baby. No.
Speaker 3: But in fairness, the Boston area is filled with hard
Speaker 3: to pronounce cities and towns like Worcester. Wister is spelled Worcester,
Speaker 3: So if you're not from here, that's how you would
Speaker 3: pronounce it.
Speaker 2: But it's Worcester woo.
Speaker 4: S t e r.
Speaker 3: It's pronounced like or even I'm from a place called Peabody, Peabody.
Speaker 3: But you know, when I would when I went to
Speaker 3: school in the Midwest for college, they would always say, oh,
Speaker 3: you're from Peabody. It became like a joke in my
Speaker 3: friend group. So anyway, they fell into that trap.
Speaker 1: You know, there is mister Peabody and Sherman.
Speaker 3: This is true, So that's even more of a reason
Speaker 3: why they should have understood that. It's well, actually they
Speaker 3: call him Peabody.
Speaker 1: That's why that's what I'm saying. I called it pavity
Speaker 1: because I'm I grew up next to you.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's true. But anyway that it's funny that
Speaker 3: that didn't catch your ear. Also, but like the fact
Speaker 3: that he said Fenway, it's like and it's it's almost
Speaker 3: like you have to think harder to pronounce it that way.
Speaker 3: It's an intentional thing because you should naturally just say Fenway.
Speaker 2: I don't know. It bugs me follow alone.
Speaker 1: Final regional reference light dawns on marblehead.
Speaker 2: Mar that's it. That's your Massachusetts minute. Thank you, everybody.
Speaker 1: Jumping. Joe Dugan didn't get on to the Red Sox
Speaker 1: until after if that had already left.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read that too.
Speaker 3: A lot of this is surprising because, as we've talked
Speaker 3: about John Fusco and Young Guns and Young Guns too
Speaker 3: in particular, he is very much a stickler for historical detail.
Speaker 3: I think we've spoken his praises with that, the fact that,
Speaker 3: I mean he takes some liberties when necessary. But that
Speaker 3: was a little surprising too, that these little details didn't
Speaker 3: quite add up.
Speaker 1: Now I've now said that I think this movie should
Speaker 1: have begun already well into his career. He should have
Speaker 1: already been married to Claire, who's played by Kelly McGillis.
Speaker 1: In this movie, he has this on again, off again
Speaker 1: romance with this woman who is Ty Cobbs manager or
Speaker 1: accountant or something at some point when he first meets
Speaker 1: her and they end up getting married. And that's the
Speaker 1: actual good part of the movie is during that scene.
Speaker 2: Kelly McGillis is really good in this by the way.
Speaker 3: I think the fact that I don't know if she
Speaker 3: just stopped acting out of choice or or maybe the
Speaker 3: roles weren't coming to her for whatever reason. But she
Speaker 3: was really good in her quote unquote, heyday, she's really
Speaker 3: good in this. I thought she was very genuine if.
Speaker 1: The most recent thing I saw her in was Ty
Speaker 1: West's film The Innkeeper, and she was great.
Speaker 2: Right on.
Speaker 1: I have I have not in it.
Speaker 3: I've had that forever. I've not had the chance to
Speaker 3: watch it, but I will check it out.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Did you realize that we had a bit of a
Speaker 3: six degrees of Fusco in this movie?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Can I walk you through this a little bit? Take
Speaker 2: a look?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Please do so.
Speaker 3: At towards the end when Babe Ruth is playing for
Speaker 3: the Boston Braves and he's on the down swing, they're
Speaker 3: playing Pittsburgh and the picture for Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2: It's like this thing. They have a bit of a.
Speaker 3: Duel and the pitch is really trash talking babe, and
Speaker 3: of course this ends with the babe hitting a home run.
Speaker 2: The picture for Pittsburgh. Did you recognize who it was?
Speaker 1: Father Malone? No?
Speaker 3: See, once they say the actor, You're going to know
Speaker 3: exactly where I'm going with this, But I'm gonna go
Speaker 3: ahead anyway. The actor's name is A guy named Richard
Speaker 3: Tyson who who you and.
Speaker 2: I both three Lock Buddy Buddy Ravel.
Speaker 3: From Three o'clock High, the antagonist one of our favorite movies,
Speaker 3: Three o'clock High.
Speaker 1: Well, so follow that that could be our other school thing.
Speaker 2: It should be, because that's a fantastic.
Speaker 1: High school, then a bunch of college.
Speaker 3: So think about this, okay. So in The Babe we
Speaker 3: have Richard Tyson from Three o'clock High. The Babe is
Speaker 3: written and produced by John Fusco. In Three o'clock High,
Speaker 3: we also have Casey Schimasco who is the protagonist. Casey
Speaker 3: Shamasco was of course in Young Guns, another John Fusco
Speaker 3: written movie.
Speaker 2: So there we have it.
Speaker 3: Six degrees of Fusco between Casey Shamasco and Richard Tyson.
Speaker 2: I was delighted by this.
Speaker 1: He fucks up Richard Tyson in that movie.
Speaker 2: He does at the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he lays him out. It's great.
Speaker 2: Richard Tyson is so good in that movie.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love that movie.
Speaker 3: He's like every he's every Nerds nightmare, the bully that
Speaker 3: is just waiting to kick your ass at three and
Speaker 3: there's nothing you can do about it, no matter what
Speaker 3: you do or say or plead or beg or bribe nothing.
Speaker 3: He's implacable in that.
Speaker 1: Richard Tyson has one scene basically in Blackhawk Down. I
Speaker 1: think he has maybe two lines in the entire movie,
Speaker 1: and him and those lines made me love that character
Speaker 1: and maybe really sad when he got killed.
Speaker 2: So good I got to see what he's been up to.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen too much with him for a while,
Speaker 3: and it'd be a shame because he's so good.
Speaker 1: At a certain point, Babe Ruth's first wife, Helen dies
Speaker 1: in a house fire, and now he has to take
Speaker 1: care of his child, who is his child, which we
Speaker 1: would like to have known, but we didn't know. It's
Speaker 1: just this adopted girl. And first of all, the way
Speaker 1: they deal with that is they just have her sitting
Speaker 1: in the dugout with him and hear him like hugging
Speaker 1: her tight for a few shots. Right, that's the fallout
Speaker 1: from the mother dying, and now that we don't there's
Speaker 1: no scene between those two ever. First of all, and now, okay,
Speaker 1: that's the movie. Now. I just read about how a
Speaker 1: month prior to that house fire, Babe Ruth had met
Speaker 1: with Helen Ruth to secure a divorce and she said
Speaker 1: he could have one for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: And then one month later, while she's alone in the house,
Speaker 1: there's a mysterious house fire. Did Babe Ruth kill her?
Speaker 2: Interesting? Was it a deal where maybe? Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I can't say that that would have been an interesting
Speaker 3: thread to pull on a little bit, maybe would have
Speaker 3: added some because look, we've seen him do a lot
Speaker 3: of reprehensible things in this movie. We saw him hold
Speaker 3: his manager over, like the manager comes down on him
Speaker 3: and tells me he's gonna be cut or something, and
Speaker 3: he picks up the manager while he's on a moving
Speaker 3: train and threatens to drop him from the caboose.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I guess here's the thing about that scene.
Speaker 1: That scene starts out really, really fucking good. It's the
Speaker 1: first time that John Goodman actually seems like a fucking cocksucker.
Speaker 1: Like when he gets mad and throws that tray over,
Speaker 1: that's not the part when he approaches trainy Alvarado, he
Speaker 1: slaps a glass out of her hand, and it's the
Speaker 1: first time that you felt the weight of this man's
Speaker 1: actions in the movie, and the movie came alive for
Speaker 1: a minute with his anger because John Goodman can get there.
Speaker 1: He can get there even if he's a decent guy,
Speaker 1: he can get to that fucking level of anger. But
Speaker 1: then when he goes to dangle the fucking guy out
Speaker 1: of the back of the train, it just felt like
Speaker 1: more comedic almost, or just not visceral enough. It just
Speaker 1: it never felt like there was any danger to anybody.
Speaker 1: It seemed like that guy was just sitting with his
Speaker 1: shoulders on the back of that thing John Goodman had him,
Speaker 1: and there was a he might have been wired up
Speaker 1: or I don't know. You know what I'm saying, I do.
Speaker 3: And the fact that in all of our research there
Speaker 3: was never a factoid about the manager that Babe Ruth
Speaker 3: killed by throwing him off a train, So I knew
Speaker 3: instinctively that the guy was really in no danger of
Speaker 3: actually being killed by Babe Ruth. So that part of it,
Speaker 3: I don't know. You're right, it is played a little
Speaker 3: bit for not comedy, but you didn't. It didn't feel
Speaker 3: as electric, like you said, as the prior part of
Speaker 3: that scene where the threat of real physical violence is
Speaker 3: in the air when he loses control. And I can't
Speaker 3: help wondering, given the time that I don't know it was.
Speaker 3: Could Babe Ruth have been someone who could have been
Speaker 3: really physically abusive towards women. I think it's probably pretty likely.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't want to impugne the man's character,
Speaker 2: but nor do.
Speaker 1: I, but you know, there is that level of angerly.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was abandoned as a child, and he
Speaker 1: basically plays a children's sport for a living where he's
Speaker 1: given millions, not millions, but at the I guess for
Speaker 1: rated for inflation, he's basically getting millions of dollars and
Speaker 1: free equivalent.
Speaker 3: I mean he's making one hundred and twenty five thousand
Speaker 3: dollars in nineteen twenty five or whatever. That's got to
Speaker 3: be a few million now. I mean, I haven't run
Speaker 3: the numbers, but sure he was making They they take
Speaker 3: pains to say that he's making more money than the
Speaker 3: president at that time, who was probably considered the guy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so obviously he was capable of anything. And
Speaker 1: I just thought that one scene we got a bit
Speaker 1: of what it probably felt like to be around the man.
Speaker 3: Let me ask you about something else that I had
Speaker 3: a real problem with in this movie. At the spoiler alert,
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about the very end of the movie.
Speaker 3: So this movie traffics in the middle shot almost no
Speaker 3: that what I'm talking about now is when he goes
Speaker 3: to visit the little boy in the hospital, the call
Speaker 3: to he doesn't he tells me he's gonna hit. The
Speaker 3: cold shot is when he points to center field and says,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna hit. But in that case he says, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna hit a home run for you. No.
Speaker 2: Two.
Speaker 3: Now, a couple things before I even get to what
Speaker 3: I'm talking about is number one, that it didn't happen
Speaker 3: that way. I believe Babe Ruth sent him some autographed balls,
Speaker 3: like I think the team signed a ball and basically
Speaker 3: said to him, Yeah, he never met with the boy
Speaker 3: in person, is what I'm saying. I think that's another
Speaker 3: example of this movie sort of trafficking and an old
Speaker 3: timey sports biopick sort of tropes to have him I'll
Speaker 3: hit one for you, Sonny, oh too. So number one,
Speaker 3: it wasn't even too. He was only he only promised
Speaker 3: he was going to try to hit one.
Speaker 1: Could you just win one for the kipper?
Speaker 3: So so that's but anyway, that's all preamble to what
Speaker 3: I'm getting at So the thing that caprit all of this,
Speaker 3: and the thing that kind of made me most frustrated,
Speaker 3: is at the very end of the movie, when the
Speaker 3: Babe is I finally had his last at bat with
Speaker 3: the Boston Braves. He's coughing up blood. This is all
Speaker 3: foreshadowing of his eventual demise at the hands of throat cancer.
Speaker 3: He's walking back, he's quit. He's handed in his hat
Speaker 3: or his cap to the manager.
Speaker 2: And says, I'm done. I'm finished.
Speaker 3: And he's walking through the tunnel and this guy comes
Speaker 3: out of nowhere and says, hey, babe, that I'm Johnny Silvester.
Speaker 3: I'm the kid that you visited in the hospital and
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and here this.
Speaker 2: Ball you gave me.
Speaker 3: It's always given me magic and hey, I wanted to
Speaker 3: give it back to you because you're the greatest.
Speaker 2: And then he walks away.
Speaker 3: I don't know that just it was so unearned to me,
Speaker 3: and that seemed to be the worst offender as far
Speaker 3: as making this scene like Pride of the Yankees or
Speaker 3: the Babe Ruth story with William Bendix or something.
Speaker 2: I just that to me was like, so I hated
Speaker 2: that ending. What did you think.
Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, it's unearned. There's probably ways to have
Speaker 1: baked it in that would have made it acceptable. If
Speaker 1: we had met him that kid earlier in the movie
Speaker 1: as an adult, and then it's revealed I was that kid.
Speaker 1: Here's the ball. That maybe could have worked. But the
Speaker 1: way they've done it is he says, yeah, I'm the kid,
Speaker 1: here's the ball you gave me. I just wanted to
Speaker 1: thank you, and then he says I'm gone, Johnny, I'm gone,
Speaker 1: and then start staggering away. If they had just watched
Speaker 1: him stagger down the rest of the fucking hallway and
Speaker 1: out in one continuous take, then I could have been
Speaker 1: down with it. But unfortunately Johnny yells after him, You're
Speaker 1: the best. You're the best that's ever been.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: It felt like, I don't know, I got flashbacks to
Speaker 3: that old was it Doctor Pepper with me and Joe Green.
Speaker 1: Exactly what I was thinking of. The fucking handing over
Speaker 1: the jersey to the kid who's gifted him as Doctor Pepper.
Speaker 2: Dr Pepper.
Speaker 3: I it just seemed, I don't know, there's other ways
Speaker 3: that get it was like the dios x Makina isn't
Speaker 3: the is like boy ex Machina like this.
Speaker 2: He just came out of nowhere, this kid that we haven't.
Speaker 3: Thought of for three quarters of the movie, and all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, hey, remember me, I was part of
Speaker 3: that special moment that, by the way, it never really happened.
Speaker 3: And here the o the greatest baby of the greatest,
Speaker 3: don't ever forget.
Speaker 2: And that I don't know.
Speaker 3: It just seemed an odd note to end the movie on.
Speaker 3: I didn't feel his I just didn't feel the heroism
Speaker 3: of his final at bat and his prowess at the
Speaker 3: bat because of all the things we've already talked about
Speaker 3: with the issues we had, how the sport is was depicted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's too episonic in nature to have led
Speaker 1: up to that there. I didn't feel his last time
Speaker 1: at bet any more weight than I felt his first,
Speaker 1: or the third, or the seventh. It was we know
Speaker 1: he was gonna he was gonna hit it. Knew he's
Speaker 1: gonna knock the ball out of the park man. That's
Speaker 1: what he does.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Do you think this is?
Speaker 3: I mean, is this something that you would ever consider
Speaker 3: recommending to someone who likes baseball or are there things
Speaker 3: you can pull out of this that make you feel
Speaker 3: like it's a worthwhile watch.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to recommend this movie. Unfortunately. There are
Speaker 1: going to be bumps on the Fusca road. But this
Speaker 1: is not an example of a biopic that I would
Speaker 1: offer to anyone. I would tell you to read about
Speaker 1: Babe Ruth. I think before I pointed you in this direction,
Speaker 1: because it doesn't really work dramatically as a just a
Speaker 1: movie where hey, we're going to take the basic facts
Speaker 1: of the guy's life and we're going to embellish it
Speaker 1: and fucking go for it, which is one way to
Speaker 1: do it and definitely could have. Or you're going to
Speaker 1: tell the facts of his life and when you're not
Speaker 1: going to get the facts of his life correct, And
Speaker 1: I can't recommend it that way. Or I could if
Speaker 1: the direction was fucking great, or the fucking music was appropriate,
Speaker 1: or the lead performance was fantastic, and none of those
Speaker 1: things happened.
Speaker 3: I really wanted to like this movie because obviously we're
Speaker 3: deep into Fusco Fest and we've had some really killer movies.
Speaker 2: Loved Young Guns one and.
Speaker 3: Two obviously, and Crossroads, of course. I think you're right.
Speaker 2: I think there's sometimes we're going to have some bumps
Speaker 2: in the road along the way. And I wanted to
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 3: But it just didn't add up. Like you said, it
Speaker 3: didn't really work dramatically, it didn't work as a sports picture,
Speaker 3: it didn't work. The direction didn't seem appropriate. So I
Speaker 3: don't think I could really recommend it either. It pains
Speaker 3: me to say it, but here we are.
Speaker 1: Yeahanna, I'm glad we did them out of order because
Speaker 1: next up on Fusco Fest. Everybody to tune in. Next time,
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about thunder Heart, probably the
Speaker 1: preview for it right here. That's right, We are going
Speaker 1: to be talking about thunder Heart on the next Fusco Fest.
Speaker 1: Until then, HP, where can people find you when they
Speaker 1: want to hear all of your delicious tones, your malicious
Speaker 1: musical moments.
Speaker 3: My mushmouth, you can find me. I'm elsewhere on the
Speaker 3: Weirding Wad Network. I co host the Night Mister Walters
Speaker 3: Taxi podcast alongside my erstwhile co host Father Malone. Right here,
Speaker 3: I'm an occasional Oh, I'm an occasional guest on The
Speaker 3: Culture Cast with Chris Dashu. I also host the Noise
Speaker 3: Junkies music podcast. And to top everything off, I have
Speaker 3: a band camp site hpmusicplace dot bandcamp dot com.
Speaker 1: Yeah, go check out his music over there that I alt,
Speaker 1: but it's fucking great. Speaking of culturecast, I programmed the
Speaker 1: month of May. Those should be coming out soon and
Speaker 1: in fact, the first one features mister HP right here
Speaker 1: and myself and Chris Dashu where we were discussing the
Speaker 1: films of John Millius over there, and for our debut
Speaker 1: we chose Magnum Force. The second in the Dirty Harry
Speaker 1: films that should be out soon. Go listen to that.
Speaker 1: As for me, keep it right here, everybody here on
Speaker 1: midnight viewing every Sunday and or Monday. You gotta follow
Speaker 1: Alone weekly round up every Friday. We have a rotating
Speaker 1: assortment of pro including Fusco Fest and Anthologies Attack and
Speaker 1: the Horror Anthology podcast itself. If you want to give
Speaker 1: us a hand, help us out in any way, please
Speaker 1: go to patreon dot com slash fatherm Alone Subscribers get
Speaker 1: all episodes early in commercial free, and if you want
Speaker 1: to help us without paying any money and who can
Speaker 1: blame you these days, then just to subscribe or a follow,
Speaker 1: or like, or give us five stars or write a
Speaker 1: few nice words about us, and if you want to
Speaker 1: get in touch with me, get go to Father Malone
Speaker 1: seven to one at a gmail dot com drop me
Speaker 1: a line there, or at father Malone on all the socials.
Speaker 1: You're more likely to find me there. Until next time,
Speaker 1: gonna leave you with a bit of John Goodman from
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much. Well this year, I am here
Speaker 5: to plug a movie and it's one I'm very proud
Speaker 5: of the baby.
Speaker 1: It's the life story at Babe Ruth.
Speaker 5: But believe me, it's a far cry from those old
Speaker 5: fashioned baseballm It's an object examination of the babes very
Speaker 5: celebrated but very turbulent life. And like I said, I'm
Speaker 5: very proud, and I'd like to show you some clips.
Speaker 2: I'm Babe, I'm the Babe.
Speaker 4: I'm the Babe. Babe, Babe, babat on the Babe by
Speaker 4: the Babe, the.
Speaker 2: Babe, Oh Baseball.
Speaker 4: Live, Babe, thank you.
Speaker 5: Like I said, this is a different view of the
Speaker 5: Babe warts and all. We look into events in Babes's
Speaker 5: life that historians had never really examined. See what I mean.
Speaker 4: Susste sis sis stasist