WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:07.320 King, we should be partners, not rivals, achieving mutual success 2 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:11.279 and common prosperity, finding the right way for the two 3 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:16.120 major powers to coexist in the new era. The world 4 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:19.719 has arrived at a new crossroads where the China and 5 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:24.160 the United States can navigate the so called Thucydides trap. 6 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:27.640 It's the Ricochet Podcast. I'm James Lilynx with Stephen Heyward 7 00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:29.320 and we're going to be talking again to our favorite 8 00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:33.079 Noah Roth has written a book Blood and Progress about 9 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:36.079 left wing violence. Let's say Resol's not a riot, but 10 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:37.520 a podcast with the. 11 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:41.640 US Defend Taiwan came. So only one person that does 12 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:42.679 said you know it is me. 13 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:47.039 Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and 14 00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:50.560 eighty nine. I'm James Lilyx on a beautiful spring day 15 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.439 in a Dina, Minnesota. Stephen Hayward is in California. Or 16 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:55.399 of course the sun always shines. So Stephen, how are 17 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:55.840 you today? 18 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:58.000 I am good, James, good to see you. 19 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:01.960 Well as sparks in Star Trek six, only Trump can 20 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:07.640 go to China. What do you make of what has 21 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:10.640 been done? The headlines that I'm getting. Of course, it's 22 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:12.719 it's always amusing to be the headlines in my feed 23 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.640 I use Apple News, and they gather up all of 24 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:19.959 the things that are said, and everything is fraught with 25 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:23.959 terror and failure and worry and uncertainty and the rest 26 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.519 of it. And I have come to just discard ninety 27 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:29.400 percent of it, waiting for history to make its final judgment. 28 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:31.840 Of course, by them, I'll be dead. But so, what 29 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:34.159 have you been able to glean from what you've heard 30 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:35.280 about this meeting. 31 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:38.799 With Gi Well, not much really, because we don't really 32 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:43.159 know what's available for public consumption can be at wide 33 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:46.159 variance with what's actually happening at the negotiating table and 34 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:48.840 all the side discussions that go on between the large 35 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:53.000 entourage brought with him. So I am amused by the 36 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:55.439 fact that what the media seems most concerned with is 37 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:58.599 that the traveling press corps from the United States has 38 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:02.359 been roughed up by Chinese these officials. 39 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:04.319 I haven't heard this, what happened? 40 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:07.560 Oh yeah, apparently there have been these scuffles. And anyway, 41 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:11.080 the Meatia is complained that we're being treated very badly 42 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:13.439 by the Chinese, and I thought, ah, I wonder Ifrump 43 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:14.159 put them up to this. 44 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:16.360 Well, I hope not. 45 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:17.719 I hope not. 46 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:19.800 I don't want to bring in the United States, as 47 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:21.599 much as we may feel about the mainstream media as 48 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:23.479 we do, to use the instruments of state power in 49 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:25.400 China to give these guys a bad time. Now, it 50 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:27.680 could be that being roughed up means, you know, being 51 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:29.599 put in a room and given a flat Coca cola 52 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:31.000 and made to sit there for an hour. So I 53 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:33.840 don't know. But if they're actually manhandling them and the 54 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:35.879 rest of it, no, this is the point where I say, no, 55 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:38.759 we are all Americans and they're the chicoms, the reds, 56 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.560 and I say it's spinach and hell with it. 57 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:44.479 So well, this, well, it's an interesting point on that 58 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:48.319 media angle. I mean, here's I've actually had some physical altercations. 59 00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:50.599 I haven't tried to chase after in detail, but there 60 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:53.719 is one little detail that is interesting to me. So 61 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:56.039 you know, Barry Wise has been trying to turn the 62 00:02:56.120 --> 00:03:00.759 ship at CBS News. And one interesting thing is last 63 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:03.759 weekend it was Major Garrett on sixty Minutes had a 64 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:08.879 long interview with Benjamin Netanyahu. Apparently this has outraged Leslie 65 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:11.840 Stall because she's a senior person. She's been trying for 66 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:13.639 months to get an interview with Netan Yahoo. 67 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:18.479 But at least she wasn't trumped by, or so to speak, 68 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:20.759 by a minor Garrett That would be even more insight. 69 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:22.919 At least it was a major Garrett R. 70 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:26.199 Exactly right. Anyway, this is causing trouble there. But the 71 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:29.400 more interesting thing at CBS, what relates to the China question, 72 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:33.520 is so that Tony Dekoppel's the new anchor for reasons 73 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:35.360 that are not entirely clear to me or that I 74 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.280 haven't seen explained satisfactorily. Is he was not able to 75 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:42.520 get a visa for the trip to China. So he's 76 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:46.439 reporting on the summit all week from Taiwan. So that's 77 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:48.080 a little odd. But Hill was doing a lot every night, 78 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:50.719 He's doing some Taiwan stories. You know, how does Taiwan 79 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:53.199 think about China? What are they doing to defend themselves 80 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.960 against the possible attack. But the first night, it would 81 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:58.400 have been Monday or Tuesday, he came on at the 82 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:01.439 end with a little you might say, editor and he said, yeah, 83 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:04.479 China's a rising power. They make everything, but everything they 84 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:06.639 make is made in America. And then he goes on 85 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:10.879 to talk about you might say American exceptionalism, American innate superiority. 86 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:14.800 I thought, ah, isn't that interesting that. You know, people 87 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:17.399 in the media and at the CBS Old Garter probably think, well, 88 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.319 that's just irresponsible jingoism. But I kind of like it, 89 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:23.120 and it's a sign maybe bury A succeeding and turning 90 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:24.920 the ship of state there, so do I. 91 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:27.319 But the idea that China somehow has learned that it 92 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.519 is an exceptional nation, that they borrowed that concept from 93 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:33.240 the United States, I'm sorry. They believe themselves to be 94 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:34.959 the center of the world, the Middle Kingdom, and it 95 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:38.439 is their right to rule, so that's a bit odd. 96 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:41.360 But as far as having them, you know, they make everything. 97 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:44.279 It's interesting. I have been because I've been furnishing and 98 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.800 tricking out this apartment here, I've had more interface with 99 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.319 Chinese goods than I have in an awful long time, 100 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:51.040 and nearly every single one of them has turned out 101 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.040 to be shoddy, substandard, doesn't fit my needs, breaks easily 102 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:57.040 comes from a company that disappears almost instantly. I left 103 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.319 the one star review of a desk tray of to 104 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:02.839 pull out desk, which is impossible to assemble and was 105 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:07.399 promptly given a got a letter from Doris. I'm sure 106 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:13.240 it was Doris somewhere who said that they were taking 107 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:15.560 a very close look at my comments, that the engineering 108 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:18.240 team had been spoken to and they were retooling everything, 109 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:19.959 and they were going to give me a fifty dollars 110 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:23.199 gift certificate if I could just change my review from 111 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:27.680 a one star to a five star. And I thought, yep, 112 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:31.720 that's what we're up against right there, and no, sorry, 113 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:34.360 got your number. Well, it'll be interesting to see what comes. 114 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:37.000 I mean, one of the interesting things and pieces of 115 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:39.040 news that we had the last week was that drug 116 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:41.519 overdose deaths are down like something like two thirds in 117 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:45.560 the country. And they're blaming that on interdiction. They're blaming 118 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.399 that on less fentanyl. They're not blaming they're ascribing it 119 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:51.160 to those things, to less immigration and the rest of it. 120 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:53.800 And it's a good deal. It's a good thing, right. 121 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:56.600 So you have no idea whether behind the scenes there 122 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:58.800 was some arm twisting and table pounding and saying you've 123 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:03.600 got to stop shipping precursor chemicals to Mexico or we're 124 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:06.399 going to start having some accidents or something or something. 125 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:10.839 I don't know. You never know. You never know. I 126 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:13.639 mean Nixon goes somebody goes to Russia and comes back 127 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:16.800 and says, well, went very well. We signed a very 128 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:19.240 heavy cream piece, cream colored piece of paper that was 129 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:22.279 embossed with all of our signatures about nuclear weapons. It's 130 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:24.600 going to make sure the future is safe, and we're 131 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:26.199 going to sell them pepsi and they're going to sell 132 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:28.480 us as Stoly And I think it was probably a 133 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:31.199 little bit more than that, but everybody thought, oh good, 134 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:32.519 we get Stoley, which is you. 135 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.240 Know, well, two things have been well. One thing's been 136 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:37.399 reported that again we don't know how concrete it is, 137 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:41.040 but that China has agreed that Iran should not control 138 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:45.600 the Gulf of the Straits of hor Mews and maybe 139 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:48.839 that they're going to restrain or supplying of arms to Iran. 140 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:51.160 I'll believe that when I see it. The other one 141 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:54.439 is that Trump. It was announced ahead of time that 142 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:56.879 Trump was going to bring up the case of Jimmy Lai, 143 00:06:57.079 --> 00:07:00.519 imprisoned in Hong Kong, and I hope, I assume that 144 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.519 he did, but I don't know. We haven't heard any 145 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:07.439 reporting on that that I've seen, at least. Uh so, uh, 146 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:10.120 that's that's I'll bet that's a sticking point for China. 147 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:12.839 I'll bet they're like the Soviet Union was when Reagan 148 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:14.839 and Schultz kept bringing up human rights and they say, 149 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:17.279 this is a purely internal matter, and our guys will say, no, 150 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:20.680 it isn't, and finally the Soviets relented. But I don't 151 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:22.360 think China is in a mood to relent on that. 152 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.240 They're they're very intransigent about these I don't know if 153 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:25.560 we have. 154 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:28.160 Any Chinese agent mayors in this country that we could 155 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:30.399 swap for them. 156 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.519 You know, right that city's right next door to where 157 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.360 I grew up. I know Arcadia quite well. 158 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:38.639 It's a very very curious story, and it makes you 159 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:41.360 realize the Chinese penetration of our institutions. I mean, this 160 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:44.279 isn't This isn't paranoid talk. This isn't I'm Joe mccarthyen 161 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:45.959 I'm gonna eat a stick of butter before going out 162 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:48.319 and drunkenly accusing a bunch of people to stuff. Although 163 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:50.360 he was right in all of these instance, this is 164 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:52.800 this is, this is what anybody knows to be the case. 165 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:55.639 When they send people over here for a variety of purposes. 166 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:59.279 They could dual use, as they say, when the intradiculous 167 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:02.639 ship that has machinery on it, that, of course they are. 168 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:05.120 Why wouldn't they Why would they not send agents over 169 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:07.279 to do all sorts of things for all I know? 170 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:11.959 You know the Florida orange blight was caused indeed by 171 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:15.600 Chinese agents spreading pathogens. It's people look at you and say, 172 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:17.920 you're absolutely daft to believe that you've been spending too 173 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:18.920 much time on the Twitter. 174 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:20.519 Why would that be ridiculous? 175 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:24.199 Why would your geopolitical economic enemy not want to sew 176 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:26.399 as much discord as possible to take advantage of your 177 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:29.079 liberal policies to seed the country with as many people 178 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:30.519 as they could, wouldn't you? 179 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:34.120 Yeah, well, yes, I've had a number of Chinese students 180 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.440 over the last twenty years, and I've just assumed or 181 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:40.519 concluded that a number of them were essentially spies, and 182 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:44.320 or in several cases I learned that they were over 183 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.080 here to get a degree. But really it was a 184 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:48.519 vehicle for rich Chinese to get money out of the country, 185 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.120 which is otherwise restrictive. But some of these Chinese students 186 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:55.639 had brand new Mercedes or BMW's, and in the case 187 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:58.000 of Pepperdine where we USEDEPP quite a lot fewer than 188 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:00.679 before COVID. A lot of them were living in two 189 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:04.679 million dollar houses over the hill in Westlake, which you know, Oh, 190 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:06.919 the kids gotta have housing. They're sort of housing on 191 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:09.559 campus center, right. Oh, this is a way to get 192 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:12.200 some capital out of the country. But I do remember 193 00:09:12.279 --> 00:09:14.559 vividly one of the first Chinese students I ever had, 194 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.320 young lady very Bright. Her work was really good, which 195 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:20.840 made me suspicious that, you know, for Ai, that someone 196 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:23.519 was writing papers for But she says to me, Oh, 197 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:26.480 I've looked at your internet. Everything on your internet about 198 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:31.600 ten and Men's Square is wrong. Those protesters and thugs 199 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:34.519 and hooligans they were shooting are police and army people, 200 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:37.600 and so anyway I would get that I thought was 201 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.559 quite candid and maybe more too revealing, more revealing than 202 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:42.159 it should have been. 203 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:44.639 Well, the Great Firewall does keep a lot of information 204 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:46.919 out of there, and it's unfortunate that they have to 205 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:49.679 marinate in their own ideological bubble. Good thing that doesn't 206 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:51.879 happen here in the States. Yes, they move a lot 207 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:54.159 of money out of China to go to the property markets. 208 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:56.480 Canada has this and a great extent, and you always 209 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:58.320 look at them and say, don't you guys have an 210 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:00.480 awful lot of empty cities that you pro simply could 211 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:02.240 sink your money into, But they don't because they know 212 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:06.480 it's not going to work. I keep hearing that Chinese 213 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:08.519 economy is always about a day and a half away 214 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:11.360 from collapsing entirely because of their property situation, and it 215 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:14.159 never seems to happen. Another day will pop up and 216 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.200 there'll be another video of somebody who's gone through a 217 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.919 city that was intended to house eight hundred thousand people 218 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:21.600 and has four of them, and they're all janitors who 219 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:25.679 spend their day sweeping up an empty mall. And it 220 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:28.200 is astonishing to me how they continue to creak along 221 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.720 with these real estate bubbles that they have that make 222 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:36.320 ours look absolutely same by comparison, But yet they do 223 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.840 so who knows, you know, we'll see down the road. 224 00:10:42.120 --> 00:10:48.879 But China is I mean, you've been reading of the purges, right, 225 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:51.360 You've been reading the g is shaping the army to 226 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.279 do as you want, which brings us to somebody else 227 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:56.879 in a similar position, perhaps a little more perilously so. 228 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:00.320 And that is where Putin happens. To be. All of 229 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:02.879 the stuff that's coming out of there suggests that there 230 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:07.039 is a strange softening. Somebody noted that for the very 231 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:10.639 first time Putin referred to Zelensky with the honor, with 232 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:15.159 the word mister, and that this somehow was some great 233 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:20.080 signal that a reproach mall might be possible. That they 234 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.759 are no longer going the whole zine denotification thing, but 235 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:27.919 they're starting to create an ideological, verbal political landscape where 236 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:32.919 they can actually make an agreement. I don't know. I 237 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:38.240 don't think so. I think that staggers on until until 238 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:43.039 Putin is either out, which you know, where do you 239 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:45.480 stand on that? And again, this is something we've been 240 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.120 saying for two years. As the elites are hurt, then 241 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:50.240 they will turn against him. Well, the elites have been 242 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:52.600 hurt first by the sanctions, then by the way now 243 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.039 you know, with the trashing of the energy infrastructure. Unless 244 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.279 money flow in ETCA, the elites are hurting even more. 245 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:02.519 I've hearing all of this for a long time since 246 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:03.120 the war began. 247 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.039 I have no idea what to make of it. We 248 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:12.639 puzzled over Putin before, and I've expressed my bafflement. I 249 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.399 do think two things. One is it is the logic 250 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:19.120 of aggressive tyrants to either go on or be destroyed 251 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:24.679 right but internally, and that's something that is I don't 252 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:28.440 quite understand the impulse to want to risk total destruction 253 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:30.279 for yourself in your country, but it does seem to 254 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:34.480 be endemic to dictatorships. Second, I do get the sense 255 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:36.679 for some of the reasons you mentioned that he is 256 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:38.440 looking for a way out, but it has to be 257 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:41.440 has to be beyond just a face saving way out, 258 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:43.879 because that won't save his own head, you might say. 259 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:46.919 And what that might be. I think it's not only 260 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.799 keep all the territories got and maybe be given some more, 261 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:52.799 but I think he wants some kinds of guarantees that 262 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:55.879 Ukraine will not join, for example, the European Union. Never 263 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:58.279 mind NATO. I don't think there's an appetite for NATO 264 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:02.320 to invite Ukraine to join, but the European Union and 265 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:05.639 our closer ties to the West is something Putin would 266 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.200 like to foreclose in some solid way, and I think 267 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:11.879 there'll be great resistance to that, both by the European 268 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:15.600 Union and by Zelenski himself. So we're just gonna have 269 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.960 to see. Ukraine is apparently exactly more and more pain 270 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.039 on Russia. It's drone strikes and so forth. So we're just, 271 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:25.279 you know, we'll just have to see what happens. As 272 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:28.039 the President likes to say. 273 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:35.159 Indeed, Hi, I'm Ben Sass and I'm Chris Steierwald, and 274 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:38.679 this is not dead yet. We're all dying, but some 275 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:41.360 of us have been brought face to face with that reality. 276 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:44.080 However long each of us have to do it though. 277 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:46.799 We all want to live a good life. 278 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:49.799 One with meaning, love and joy, and our guests are 279 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:51.440 here to help us do exactly that. 280 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.120 Now available for download and streaming at ricochet dot com. 281 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:58.440 Ricochet Yeah, join the conversation. 282 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:06.879 Well, enough of us blathering. Let's get somebody else to blather. 283 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:08.840 Noah Rothman, We welcome back to him, back to the 284 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:16.080 podcast with the anticipation. American writer, editor, former MSNBC commentator, hmmm, podcaster, author, 285 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.799 senior writer and podcast guests for National Review. And we love, 286 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:23.559 we love, we loves us some NR, as people used 287 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:25.519 to say on the internet. And he's here because he 288 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:29.399 has a new book, Blood and Progress, which sounds like 289 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:33.679 the bioh of Bismarck, but it isn't. It's about left 290 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:37.720 wing violence, and we welcome Noah here. Hey, how you doing. 291 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:39.600 I'm doing great, Thanks so much for having me again. 292 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:42.879 Fantastic left wing violence. Come on, come on going, come on. 293 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:44.919 Talk to anybody in the left and they'll say, well, 294 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:49.440 you know, violence from the left is entirely justified. It's 295 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.639 the riots are the voice of the unheard, and the 296 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:58.039 destruction of cities is a necessary way of dismantling white supremacy. 297 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:01.000 But we never do it. 298 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:04.320 It's essentially that's a really good summary of the business. 299 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:06.320 It's the right that does it. They're the ones. I mean, 300 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:08.519 take a look at the ADL, take a look at 301 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:11.360 what the Southern Poverty Law Center says. It's the right 302 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:14.279 that commits it. And J six and JA six. But 303 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.679 you and your book. There's an excerpt today for people 304 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.120 who have Apple News, you can find an excellent excerpt 305 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:24.000 free from NAR which discusses said scourge and puts it 306 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.840 in the context of its most recent efflorescence, which would 307 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:27.559 be twenty twenty. 308 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:30.000 I have a very keen. 309 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.679 Relationship with the violent urban violence of twenty twenty because 310 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:35.159 it happened in my city. It happened twenty blocks from 311 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.600 my house. I drove through it every day. I heard it, 312 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.159 I smelled it, I lived it, and I watched on 313 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.519 live streams which have since somehow just disappeared from the 314 00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:46.799 Internet of what was going on and what they did 315 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:52.039 and how much fun they had doing it. So let's 316 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:56.399 unpack all of this. They will say that, actually it's 317 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.759 justifiable that it is idio. Well, it's your book. Give 318 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:02.919 us the premise and tell us exactly what you want 319 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:04.080 us to take away from this book. 320 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:05.919 I don't know you were taking me on a journey here. 321 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:08.120 Actually it sounds like you've got this thing pretty much down, 322 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:17.000 all right, Thanks for joining us, No, folks, Yeah, I 323 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:20.120 mean that's essentially what this book is about. The reflex 324 00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:23.000 that you encounter, that we all encounter whenever there's an 325 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:26.679 act of confirmed or suspected left wing political violence designed 326 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.919 to advance a political agenda, whether it's the sustained looting 327 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:34.240 and burning of American cities, an attempted or successful assassination 328 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:38.799 of a right wing figure, attacks on ICE or CBP facilities, 329 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.320 one of which last year was really sophisticated. It was 330 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:45.480 a small cell terrorist attack using pretty sophisticated ambush tactics 331 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.320 all the time. What you hear right after that as well. 332 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:51.039 You know, the right wing is the most urgent and 333 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:55.000 acute threat to American civic comedy, and so you shouldn't 334 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:58.279 even really be talking about this. What is that reflex? 335 00:16:58.440 --> 00:16:59.559 Where does it come from? 336 00:16:59.759 --> 00:16:59.840 That? 337 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.600 That's what this book confronts, and that excerpt one of 338 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:09.039 the phenomena that amplifies this and gives the left permission 339 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:13.880 to look away, which is all that is that reflex 340 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:15.400 that you encounter when this say, oh, the right is 341 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.200 really much more violent. It's just a psychological excuse to 342 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:21.559 avoid confronting the phenomena that is all around us. There 343 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:23.240 was a document that was prepared for the Department of 344 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:27.960 Homeland Security in twenty twenty one group named INSIGHT, which 345 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.160 very bravely demons. 346 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:32.359 Or let me, let me stop you right there, and 347 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:34.880 INSIGHT stands for because when I saw it in your book, 348 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:37.440 I started sounding it out myself, thinking this has to 349 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:42.119 be clever, And indeed it was in nc it is. 350 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:46.759 Correct National counter Terror, National counter Terrorism Innovation, Technology and 351 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:50.759 Education Center, and they contributed to the Department of Homeland Security, 352 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:56.680 and the document that they prepared articulates why researchers in 353 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.839 the field that study ave violence anarchistic violent extremism, which 354 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.039 is the turn of art that the FBI uses, captures 355 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:07.359 a lot of left wing political violence. Not all, but 356 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:10.960 typically you're left wing, politically violent people will fall into 357 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:14.480 that category. Within the universe of domestic violent extremists. On 358 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:18.119 the right, you have racial and ethnically motivated violence, sovereign 359 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:22.319 citizen violence, that sort of thing which tends to capture 360 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.839 more right wing figures. And those who study aves encounter 361 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:31.359 a variety of intimidation tactics from the left and from 362 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:36.599 people within their own fields, social isolation. They describe smear campaigns, 363 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.680 a loss of professional reputation, the fear that their research 364 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:44.599 could provoke harmful responses, which is a very sanitized way 365 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.839 of saying they're being terrorized, that they have effectively been 366 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:53.079 terrorized by a campaign of terrorism. And lastly, the extent 367 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:56.640 to which the people who do research into the field 368 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.440 of left wing political violence are themselves members of groups 369 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:04.359 or apologists for groups that execute violence in the name 370 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.440 of progressive causes. And that is to say nothing of 371 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:13.759 the adulterated and suspect data sets which purport to flatten 372 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:17.440 the phenomenon of right of left wing political violence. In 373 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:20.880 order to claim that the right has the the majority 374 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:23.319 of cases of political violence are on the right, and 375 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:25.599 some of those data sets are really corrupted to the 376 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:30.039 extent that they incorporate violence inside prisons, for example, between 377 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:34.079 gang members or gang members, or family members or prison 378 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:40.440 official CEOs. For example, there are episodes in which homeless 379 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:45.039 people who deploy racial slurs while assaulting business owners has 380 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.920 countered as right wing violence. Somebody who sprays graffiti on 381 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:49.839 the side of a church, that's right wing violence. When 382 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:53.359 you flatten these things out into statistics, try to create 383 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.599 a database, which is why I don't even attempt to 384 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:55.839 do it. 385 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:57.279 I think it's a fraught enterprise. 386 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:01.200 It just flattens the whole phenomenon, leaves you less informed 387 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.279 about it than more. And statistics are important, you can't 388 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:06.440 just ignore them or dismiss them. But to try to 389 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:09.319 create a database is in my view of fraud enterprise, 390 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:11.119 which is why I don't do that. I tell stories, 391 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:13.880 and the stories that I tell are illustrative. I think 392 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.319 of the phenomenon that is observable with our own eyes. 393 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:18.680 I mean, you don't. 394 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.400 Need a database to tell you that the amount of 395 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:24.440 the left wing political violence designed to create in the 396 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.000 minds of the adult thinkers who execute violence in the 397 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:30.119 name of political motives designed to change in shape society. 398 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:31.559 That is just. 399 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:36.519 Rampant, and it is You don't even need to really 400 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.440 examine the deeply the philosophy behind it, although I do 401 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:44.279