Speaker 1: Once in a while, life seems to hold a dark
Speaker 1: cloud over us. It could be a streak of bad
Speaker 1: luck or maybe even mental health struggles. Unfortunately, for many
Speaker 1: people before the twenty first century, they were often undiagnosed
Speaker 1: or forced to take extreme measures to try and find
Speaker 1: solutions to these problems. Now, try and imagine putting yourself
Speaker 1: in this situation. It's early nineteen hundreds, and you have
Speaker 1: what you believe is a curse condemning your life and
Speaker 1: the life of your children. How would you protect them
Speaker 1: from this curse? How far would you go to ensure
Speaker 1: their safety and that their life would never be touched
Speaker 1: by this curse? Today's story one woman went through this
Speaker 1: exact dilemma in hopes of protecting her own.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, Aue crime podcast.
Speaker 1: The following podcast material in more mature audience.
Speaker 2: Listener, do you ever notice how when I'm doing our intro,
Speaker 2: I'm always using hand gestures? Actually, yes, like pretty much
Speaker 2: every time. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone realizes how many gestures actually
Speaker 1: occur behind a microphone.
Speaker 2: A lot, actually a lot, well, I mean it helps
Speaker 2: episize sometimes, Yeah, but lots lots of times we're not
Speaker 2: even noticing it of each other. Well, no, Butter, we're
Speaker 2: are we You're more of a hand talker than me.
Speaker 1: You think I'm a hand talker A little I think
Speaker 1: a little hand talker, a little handooker. Wow, Okay, I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's that's a good thing or what.
Speaker 1: But I'm a little hand talker, I guess.
Speaker 2: But when I try to annunciate things or really describe something,
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm using my hands.
Speaker 1: That's true. You get you get that motion going. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you listen closely, you can almost hear, like in
Speaker 1: our voice, that motion as we get our hands. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys could hear it or not.
Speaker 2: I could hear. But I was also witnessing it.
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. You were You want to know
Speaker 1: else I was witnessing not too long ago.
Speaker 2: What's that awesome?
Speaker 1: People signing up for a Patreon the Oh yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we had Bonnie Kega Rice who shout out told
Speaker 1: me how to pronounce their name correctly.
Speaker 2: I don't think you nailed it.
Speaker 1: I think so awesome because Kega Rice, she was like
Speaker 1: it's literally just keg of rice, kega rice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good way of describing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so thank you. Bonnie.
Speaker 2: Probably wouldn't pronounce it that way, would you have.
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I'm looking in hindsight. It's hard
Speaker 1: to say. Yeah, I might have said couga race. I
Speaker 1: don't know, Okay, but yeah, it's Bonnie Keger, Sophia Troke
Speaker 1: mung Bean, which I don't think that's a real name,
Speaker 1: but if it is, love it. And Paige Mortgridge awesome,
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for signing up on Patreon.
Speaker 1: You guys are getting that exclusive behind the scenes content
Speaker 1: and of course the extra episode.
Speaker 2: At the end of the month, which we're approaching quickly,
Speaker 2: aren't we.
Speaker 1: We are, so we got to figure that out. Maybe
Speaker 1: we should be asking our patrons again what they what
Speaker 1: they want to hear?
Speaker 2: It's already February twentieth, That is wild. Well, I mean
Speaker 2: it will be twenty first when you're listening to this.
Speaker 1: And time flies so fucking fast it's stupid.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And speaking of time flying fast, we mentioned before a
Speaker 1: new podcast potentially coming out by Wicked and Grim.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is People are excited about this because we
Speaker 2: haven't mentioned a lot about it.
Speaker 1: We haven't. We're really hoping to have this up and
Speaker 1: running in about two months time. So just so you
Speaker 1: guys know, Jacko might have his own show in about
Speaker 1: two months.
Speaker 2: Wow. So look at Jacko just doing this shit.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm pretty sure he's more popular than we are.
Speaker 1: I know he's pretty dope though.
Speaker 2: He Actually he's pretty cool, dude, he is.
Speaker 1: I think we should figure out his backstory even too. Oh,
Speaker 1: I think that'd be cool. Yeah, that would be super
Speaker 1: cool to know. Actually, yeah, maybe we should ask him
Speaker 1: about it, see if he can give us some of
Speaker 1: the deats.
Speaker 2: We'll do a Q and a session with him, we'll
Speaker 2: interview him.
Speaker 1: We should Oh wow, that would be fun. Maybe that'll
Speaker 1: be a good Halloween thing or something.
Speaker 2: Maybe Yeah, no kidding, Actually, well, you ready for this episode?
Speaker 2: I'm ready? Your intro is bomb?
Speaker 1: Was it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, because you kind of you mentioned a little
Speaker 2: bit about this case, but then your intro was like,
Speaker 2: oh okay, okay, that makes it sound a little different
Speaker 2: than what I had in my mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because this one's it's almost got two stories to it.
Speaker 1: It's the curse we spoke of and the life leading
Speaker 1: along said curse and the result and what she does
Speaker 1: because of said curse. Okay, so it's kind of those two.
Speaker 1: And shout out to live over at proud pause for
Speaker 1: recommending this. Who's there are dog groomers? Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: was up there the other day and she told me
Speaker 1: about this one, and I was like, that sounds dope,
Speaker 1: So let's do it.
Speaker 2: They grew maur doggles and the knew a freaking amazing job.
Speaker 1: They do, So let's get into it.
Speaker 2: You ready, Yeah, I just took a sip of water.
Speaker 2: I'm ready. Roll.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go stay hydrated. People, Nichole's doing it. I'm
Speaker 1: sure not. I know that. Okay. We started off with
Speaker 1: Leonarda Chinchuli. She was born on April eighteenth, in eighteen
Speaker 1: ninety four in the small Italian town of Montela Aka.
Speaker 1: It was known as the Kingdom of Italy. Okay, but
Speaker 1: from the very start there was little in her life
Speaker 1: that was quaint or homie. Leonarda's mother had been born
Speaker 1: into a wealthy family and reportedly she had been sexually
Speaker 1: assaulted and then she had discovered she was pregnant from
Speaker 1: her assailant. Jeez, So to avoid ridicule and ruin. She
Speaker 1: was forced to actually marry her attacker, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: and she conceived the child with him as their family.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're starting off on a not very eloquent
Speaker 1: foot here. No, I can't imagine making those sort of shoes.
Speaker 2: That's horrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I didn't even think anything like that could ever happen.
Speaker 1: Now, well, it was mostly an attempt to clear her
Speaker 1: name and take that smudge away sort of thing of
Speaker 1: being pregnant at a wedlock sort of thing, you know.
Speaker 1: But even with these attempts to repair her name and status,
Speaker 1: she became out of wed became pregnant out of wedlock anyways,
Speaker 1: in her family cut her off.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So Leonarda's mother went from living in luxury
Speaker 1: to living in squalor and her and in her mind,
Speaker 1: there was only one person to blame her new baby
Speaker 1: she had just conceived from her assailant, Leonarda.
Speaker 2: Okay, that actually shocked me even more. I was thinking
Speaker 2: you were going to say the attacker was completely to blame.
Speaker 1: No, she just did not like her child out of spite.
Speaker 1: I mean, not that you should treat anyone in negative
Speaker 1: manner just because of these actions of someone else. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's a baby. It's an infant, right, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: baby did nothing. But I can understand that skewed perspective
Speaker 1: on this child when it's like your father assaulted.
Speaker 2: Me, I can understand it. But also like, the baby
Speaker 2: had literally nothing exactly do with any of this.
Speaker 1: The baby is the result, but it's not their fault.
Speaker 1: So wow, I get it, but it's not an excuse
Speaker 1: all at the same time. Right, So, anyways, Leonardo's mother
Speaker 1: made sure that Leonarda knew everything that happened and that
Speaker 1: it was all her fault.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she said it was her fault that they had
Speaker 1: no money to buy food or clothes, and her fault
Speaker 1: they lived in poverty, and Leonarda believed her as she
Speaker 1: grew up.
Speaker 2: Holy, this is really fucked Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, understandably, the two had a very terrible relationship built
Speaker 1: out of spite, and before Leonarda even became an adult,
Speaker 1: she had tried to commit suicide on two separate occasions,
Speaker 1: showing just how deeply her mother's words were cutting her.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, this is just I can't even Oh, it's
Speaker 2: so brutal, this is so brutal and so sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a parent's job is to be there for your child,
Speaker 1: and yet you're sitting here saying these things, driving your
Speaker 1: child to this that is fucked up.
Speaker 2: I feel incredibly bad for her, I do I mean
Speaker 2: to be fair? Can we do an episode without being
Speaker 2: too be fair?
Speaker 1: I do feel bad for Leonarda's mother as well because
Speaker 1: of what she went through. So I mean she is
Speaker 1: a victim in these circumstances as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, but now she's creating someone else to be a
Speaker 2: victim that is exactly necessarily meaning to be.
Speaker 1: She's perpetuating the cycle. Yes, so I feel bad for
Speaker 1: her as well. However, again it's not an excuse. So anyways,
Speaker 1: she took everything herm mother said very seriously. That's why
Speaker 1: when Leonarda came home with what she thought would be
Speaker 1: good news one day, her mother's words would change the
Speaker 1: course of Leonardo's life even more dramatically forever. In nineteen seventeen,
Speaker 1: Leonarda married a man by the name of Raphael Pensarti.
Speaker 1: He was a local registry office clerk with a steady job.
Speaker 1: She had gone home to tell her mother, being excited
Speaker 1: about the news, and she was expecting her mother to
Speaker 1: be happy, especially now that she would be moving in
Speaker 1: with her new husband. There'd be one less mouth to feed.
Speaker 1: She would not be around to bother her mother anymore,
Speaker 1: be the burden. She claimed.
Speaker 2: She was right, I wouldn't be expecting that her mom
Speaker 2: would be happy about this exactly.
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't she be? Yeah, but the happiness and excitement,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, did not come. She was furious. Furious, yes,
Speaker 1: and we do know all the reason. Okay, Leonarda had
Speaker 1: known at that time, or sorry, had not known at
Speaker 1: that time, But her mother had actually been planning for
Speaker 1: Leonarda to marry someone else, someone much more wealthy, someone
Speaker 1: who could provide for their entire family as a whole.
Speaker 2: And she was not aware of this, I'm assuming correct.
Speaker 1: So when she came home and announced her marriage to Raphael,
Speaker 1: she basically ruined her mother's plans, and her mother took
Speaker 1: this as like a final betrayal.
Speaker 2: Because her mom was basically just trying to get back
Speaker 2: to the lifestyle she had at one point of luxury,
Speaker 2: right pretty much, and this was her.
Speaker 1: Plan exactly, okay, and it just this all went out
Speaker 1: the window now because of this.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course divorce was out of the question,
Speaker 1: so there was little that her mother could do to
Speaker 1: undo Leonardo's marriage.
Speaker 2: Oh, like, she had come home and basically already said
Speaker 2: she was married.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she was married. Oh it's not that she's marrying.
Speaker 1: She came home, was like, Mom, I'm married.
Speaker 2: Okay, I misheard this. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: So the only thing that her mother could do to
Speaker 1: make sure that her daughter spent the rest of her
Speaker 1: days suffering.
Speaker 2: Goodness, she already has been suffering, yeah she was.
Speaker 1: But the only thing she could do to ensure beyond
Speaker 1: her leaving this home and not having a happy life
Speaker 1: in her marriage was curse her. Hmmm yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: Then okay, this mom is making me just pissed right now.
Speaker 1: She's not a very good mother.
Speaker 2: She's not.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's all like, fuck you, I hate you,
Speaker 1: You're shitty child. You ruin my life. Also, by the way,
Speaker 1: you cursed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we excuse me. Like what else could she do?
Speaker 1: Not much? She's pretty much reached that limit, I think,
Speaker 1: and I mean today most people would have just brushed
Speaker 1: off the idea of a curse honestly, Oh, especially coming
Speaker 1: from a spiteful and toxic relative just out of literal spite, right,
Speaker 1: But Leonarda had literally spent her entire childhood believing every
Speaker 1: word that her mother said. Okay, and so when she's
Speaker 1: all like, yeah, well you're gonna go and be happy,
Speaker 1: I guess what, No, you fucking cursed, Leonarda was like shit,
Speaker 1: I'm cursed.
Speaker 2: Oh and then so then, honestly, for a curse, I
Speaker 2: feel like to be successful, the recipient has to believe
Speaker 2: in it and it liked for to that it's going
Speaker 2: to happen or that it's two. Right.
Speaker 1: I I don't know anything about like magic or curses
Speaker 1: or wicca or whatever category this falls under the cult stuff,
Speaker 1: but I would assume that's probably gonna help for sure.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, even if say said curse didn't, wasn't
Speaker 2: a thing, just her believing that it is placebo effect,
Speaker 2: right exactly? Yeah, I can kind of fuck with her.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely. So definitely. So she did try to move
Speaker 1: on with her life even with this curse hanging over
Speaker 1: her head, trying to build something together with her new husband, Raphael.
Speaker 1: But it didn't take long for her mother's curse to
Speaker 1: actually rear its ugly head. See, Leonarda became pregnant something
Speaker 1: That should have been good news to the happy newlywed couple,
Speaker 1: but Leonarda was uneasy, and she had every right to
Speaker 1: be because, wanting to get ahead of her mother's curse,
Speaker 1: she had actually previously gone to a fortune teller to
Speaker 1: see if she could get some insight into her future,
Speaker 1: and that fortune teller had given Leonarda some great news.
Speaker 1: She said that Leonarda would marry and would have many children,
Speaker 1: which sounds great, but all of them would die young.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that would make you not even want
Speaker 2: of a kid at all.
Speaker 1: Then agreed, Yeah, Now, I mean contraception in this time
Speaker 1: is not most widely used thing, if at all. I'm
Speaker 1: not too sure when it was created. This is the
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds, but still so. After that, though, she
Speaker 1: did also visit someone else. She went to a Romani
Speaker 1: fortune teller and they read palms and they told her,
Speaker 1: after identifying the lines in her hands, I quote in
Speaker 1: your right hand prison and your left a criminal asylum.
Speaker 2: Okay, so she's basically just like doomed here pretty much.
Speaker 1: Both were very heavy predictions.
Speaker 2: Very shitty predictions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and one of them, specifically targeting are the future
Speaker 1: of her children, hit very hard because I mean she
Speaker 1: was pregnant, right yeah, later, Yeah, so yeah, she's all like, shit,
Speaker 1: I had these bad predictions, one of them specifically talking
Speaker 1: about the potential health of my child, and I'm now
Speaker 1: sitting here pregnant. Fuck.
Speaker 2: Not to mention this added stress that she's probably carrying
Speaker 2: around with her.
Speaker 1: Oh exactly right. Yeah, she's got a lot of stress
Speaker 1: on her shoulders.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So this whole joy over being pregnant was now turned
Speaker 1: into essentially a sense of dread, and that dread became
Speaker 1: much worse when she lost a baby. Lost the baby,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, And I mean a miscarriage is devastating at best,
Speaker 1: and for Leonarda, I'm sure it hit even harder because this,
Speaker 1: in her mind was proof that her mind There's curse
Speaker 1: was in fact real, and that the fortune teller's prophecy
Speaker 1: was coming true.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So Leonardo drifted for a while, probably suffering from what
Speaker 1: we now would diagnose as depression today. But there wasn't
Speaker 1: much understanding of mental health issues or anything like that
Speaker 1: back in the early nineteen twenties.
Speaker 2: I mean, I still feel like we're trying to understand
Speaker 2: it and then it should be more widely said.
Speaker 1: Oh, for sure, one hundred percent. But yeah, she just
Speaker 1: because it wasn't accepted or understood, she just sank deeper
Speaker 1: and deeper. Oh boy, and then eventually she found herself
Speaker 1: behind bars.
Speaker 2: What did she do?
Speaker 1: Well? She was arrested in nineteen twenty one, after Raphael
Speaker 1: had moved them to his hometown of Lauria Potenza. Now
Speaker 1: Leonarda had been found guilty of fraud, though there's no
Speaker 1: real description of her exact crimes to be found regarding
Speaker 1: this fraud, but there was prison sentence occurring here, which
Speaker 1: meant another prediction had come true. So she did get
Speaker 1: out six years later, and with her husband Raphael still
Speaker 1: at her side, they moved to another town, Lacedonia, Avellino.
Speaker 1: Now this was a fresh start for him, a fresh
Speaker 1: start that came with good news when Leonarda became pregnant
Speaker 1: again and managed to deliver a healthy child. Oh yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: though I'm sure she held her breath waiting for the
Speaker 1: curse to kick in at everything, any moment. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it may have looked like things turned around for them,
Speaker 1: but wherever Leonarda went, her mother's curse wasn't far behind.
Speaker 1: I honestly can't imagine being fucking cursed, like legitimately. Can
Speaker 1: you imagine just someone cursing you today and then these
Speaker 1: things happening afterwards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that basically it's all just coming to to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, mind you, these these are years later,
Speaker 1: these sort of things, And I don't know if I
Speaker 1: have the tension spand to remember I've been cursed for
Speaker 1: that fucking long.
Speaker 2: Oh. I feel like though shit just kept happening though.
Speaker 1: You would remember potentially potentially just blaming this curse constantly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I can't fathom the idea of actually being cursed.
Speaker 1: That would be wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I can kind of fathom the idea
Speaker 2: of being cursed, But I think what is less fathomable
Speaker 2: to me is believing that you've been cursed.
Speaker 1: That's true, And I do think one thing that really
Speaker 1: pushed Leonarda here to believe that she was in fact
Speaker 1: curse was the whole idea of her children not being healthy,
Speaker 1: because during the course of her marriage she had seventeen pregnancies.
Speaker 1: Three of those ended in miscarriage. Another ten of the
Speaker 1: children died when they were very young, and that left
Speaker 1: Leonarda and Raphael with only four surviving children out of.
Speaker 2: Seventeen are you serious?
Speaker 1: Dead serious? So I think, Oh, with numbers like that,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure anyone would believe your fucking curse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no shit, because and I.
Speaker 1: Can't imagine the weight that would hold in anyone's heart.
Speaker 2: And it's like to think that is her fucking mother
Speaker 2: did this to her. Yeah, wow, that is too much
Speaker 2: to take in.
Speaker 1: Well, try and take it in.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that she'd seventeen pregnancies.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's wild.
Speaker 2: Whoa, and so sorry four or five.
Speaker 1: Of them four survived four whoa?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's devastating.
Speaker 1: And then to top it all off, in the midst
Speaker 1: of going through all that loss and pain, tragedy would strike.
Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty, she lose her husband when an earthquake
Speaker 1: tore through Lcedonia where they were living and destroyed their
Speaker 1: family's home. Okay, now, to be fair, the entire town
Speaker 1: was actually destroyed, and Raphael knew that he'd have to
Speaker 1: get something dramatic to happen here because he had a
Speaker 1: family to take care of it look after. Right, so
Speaker 1: he did decide to move them to a place called Coreego,
Speaker 1: Reggio Emeli. Yeah, sorry, Coreego was in Reggio Emilia, and
Speaker 1: this was this move would actually finally change their luck,
Speaker 1: things would finally turn around.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, it's amazing that they haven't even given up hope,
Speaker 2: because I feel like after that much bad things that
Speaker 2: have happened to them, it would be hard to carry
Speaker 2: on with your day, like having any what's the word
Speaker 2: like hope? Yes, there you go, any hope whatsoever?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. I mean it's a very heavy situation
Speaker 1: that they've gone through for basically the last twenty year
Speaker 1: twenty plus years. Yeah, so you have how many children
Speaker 1: you've lost? You now being behind bars, your home has
Speaker 1: been absolutely destroyed. I think the only thing that they're
Speaker 1: looking for at this time is that they have each
Speaker 1: other still, and they do have their four.
Speaker 2: Surviving children, right that they need to protect and love
Speaker 2: and feed exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm sure, which we are even going to
Speaker 1: touch on this here in a bit, Leonardo would protect
Speaker 1: her kids at all costs.
Speaker 2: So well, I mean, she learned from the worst, so
Speaker 2: of course I feel like she'd be a little bit
Speaker 2: of a better mom than that.
Speaker 1: I like how you said learn from the worst. That
Speaker 1: was awesome, do you Yeah, Yeah, that was a good
Speaker 1: way of putting it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, her mom's horrid. Yeah, I'm disgusted by her mother.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough. High five to that bitch because she
Speaker 1: a bitch. There we go. Not a high five to her,
Speaker 1: but high five on us.
Speaker 2: High five for her being a bit, just being a bit.
Speaker 1: Yes, high five on us agreeing that we hate her
Speaker 1: because she is a bitch. How's that?
Speaker 2: Gosh, there we go.
Speaker 1: I was way too complicated anyway, So they moved and
Speaker 1: things were starting to look up finally. Now, the people
Speaker 1: in Coriego, like many other towns and villages all over Italy,
Speaker 1: all heard about the absolutely terrible earthquake that struck their town.
Speaker 1: So when Raphael and Leonarda showed up with their young
Speaker 1: children in tow, the people were absolutely happy to help
Speaker 1: in any way that they could.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, love that.
Speaker 1: They actually set the family up in a house in town,
Speaker 1: one that even had a storefront, so that Leonarda could
Speaker 1: make and sell some things, you know, and get things
Speaker 1: going again.
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, that's really cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not to mention, while she is working in
Speaker 1: this storefront at home, she's there to look after the
Speaker 1: kids at the same time.
Speaker 2: That's perfect.
Speaker 1: It's a perfect situation. And from there, Raphael was hooked
Speaker 1: up with a new job, and it looked like the
Speaker 1: family would take a step back and breathe again because
Speaker 1: they finally had this break in their life.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 1: So, Rafael was working as a clerk and Leonarda began
Speaker 1: making and selling soap in their storefront. This all worked
Speaker 1: for them on so many more ways than we could
Speaker 1: ever imagine. Leonardo had now you know, ways of getting
Speaker 1: to know the townspeople, for example, and the townspeople got
Speaker 1: to know the family in return. So it was just
Speaker 1: fitting into the community all the things we'd already talked about,
Speaker 1: and it worked out beautifully. So whenever the family went
Speaker 1: through another heartbreak or losing another child, the village was
Speaker 1: there to support them. They got in, they knew people.
Speaker 1: It was a personal level. Now the people knew what
Speaker 1: these this family had gone through and they were there
Speaker 1: to support and do whatever they could. And Leonarda wanted
Speaker 1: to pay that back, so she began collecting anything and
Speaker 1: everything she could. On the occult, she was both trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how to get rid of the curse
Speaker 1: that her mother had bestowed upon her and wanting to
Speaker 1: see if there was something that she could do to
Speaker 1: help other villagers when they were going through similar things
Speaker 1: as well, which is super awesome. She's basically becoming like
Speaker 1: the village witch, which is dope.
Speaker 2: So you're like, I love that.
Speaker 1: Fuck yes, who doesn't want to be the village witch.
Speaker 1: I'm a thirty five year old dude, and I want
Speaker 1: to be the village witch. Come on.
Speaker 2: And the sad thing is is you would be so
Speaker 2: good at.
Speaker 1: Oh fuck yeah, I would.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, you would be way better than me.
Speaker 1: Like, bitch, you got ghosts, Let's give you a potion
Speaker 1: and banish these.
Speaker 2: He's so passionate about it.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I love that. Could you imagine that being
Speaker 1: your job, the village fucking witch?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like, ah, you got a curse here, let's drink sit
Speaker 1: under this full moon tonight and will howl. You'll be
Speaker 1: cured by the morning.
Speaker 2: You would have fricking t shirts made for yourself to
Speaker 2: wear village Witch. I should make you on.
Speaker 1: You'd say village bitch, but the bee would be crossed
Speaker 1: out with W over top.
Speaker 2: Oh that escalated?
Speaker 1: That really did? We digressed? Sorry? With her learning these
Speaker 1: new skills, with her becoming the village witch, though it's
Speaker 1: not described as her as a village witch. That's just
Speaker 1: our own description. By the way, people did start coming
Speaker 1: to her for fortunes. Uh they were when they were sick,
Speaker 1: you know, they would reach out to her and they
Speaker 1: thought maybe if they were cursed too, like Leonardo's reputation
Speaker 1: of her potentially being cursed and.
Speaker 2: What honestly gave them someone to talk to too. Oh
Speaker 2: yeah right, like I bet you. Along with her being
Speaker 2: like kind of the village witch, she was also kind
Speaker 2: of like the village counselor.
Speaker 1: Definitely definitely, And as she was able to counsel and
Speaker 1: like actually help people, her reputation grew of being able
Speaker 1: to have these abilities or special powers of helping people.
Speaker 1: So she's helping people one way or another, and she
Speaker 1: became quite well respected in coreego. But that didn't mean
Speaker 1: that all the experiences she was getting in the occult
Speaker 1: was making her feel any more sure of her own
Speaker 1: curse being left behind though, as she was helping other people,
Speaker 1: it wasn't changing her situation at all.
Speaker 2: Okay, which is what she ultimately want was after.
Speaker 1: Ultimately, yes, now, Leonarda still hadn't quite worked out worked
Speaker 1: her way sorry out from under this curse, and it
Speaker 1: made her even more protective of her current force surviving children.
Speaker 1: Her eldest living son's name was Giuseppe. Fucking love that name.
Speaker 1: Just want to point that out.
Speaker 2: Also, like, how are you doing so well with these
Speaker 2: names here?
Speaker 1: Like, well done, I'm just pretending.
Speaker 2: Okay, well it sounds like you know what the shit
Speaker 2: you're thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm just just doing my best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're doing good, thank you well.
Speaker 1: She and Giuseppe had a very special relationship. They'd spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time together. Even as Giuseppe grew older
Speaker 1: and became a teenager. One of the first things that
Speaker 1: he'd do when he came back from school would sit
Speaker 1: down with his mother in the kitchen. They'd have a
Speaker 1: cup of tea and some teacakes.
Speaker 2: Together, and my gosh, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: This is what happened.
Speaker 2: That's fucking beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love it now. A lot of times, Giuseppe
Speaker 1: was described as her favorite child. Oh, I don't know
Speaker 1: if she like maybe, I don't know if she played
Speaker 1: favorites that way. I just think they just had a
Speaker 1: really strong relationship. Like, I don't think any of her
Speaker 1: other kids were quite old enough to sit down and
Speaker 1: have tea with their mother and cake and like discuss their.
Speaker 2: Day, you know, like a little angel.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I don't think it was necessarily her favorite
Speaker 1: child more or less, she just had a strong particular
Speaker 1: bond with.
Speaker 2: This child and the age that he was exactly.
Speaker 1: He was the oldest, right, so we had that ability
Speaker 1: to make that bond so far, and this whole tea
Speaker 1: and tea cake thing turned into it to a tradition
Speaker 1: and tradition that many of the other villagers actually learned
Speaker 1: to know about as well. Sometimes other villagers and some
Speaker 1: of the other women would actually come around and have
Speaker 1: tea and teacake with Leonarda and Giuseppe. Also because Leonarda
Speaker 1: was becoming pretty famous around the town as well because
Speaker 1: of her her locally made teacakes which she would sell.
Speaker 2: In her To be honest.
Speaker 1: I mean, that can go several different ways. It could
Speaker 1: be like a loaf, could be a biscuit.
Speaker 2: I don't know, okay, so something that you enjoy with.
Speaker 1: Tea, Yeah, could be could be like a cracker biscuit,
Speaker 1: could be banana bread sort of thing. I don't fuck it.
Speaker 1: There's a million different options of what it could be.
Speaker 1: She had these teacakes, apparently they were fucking delish, that's all.
Speaker 2: I really know, what well you did your head just
Speaker 2: through the roads. You're like they're gonna lash. I did
Speaker 2: like the okay sign, like almost like you would like
Speaker 2: to be enjoying one at this very moment.
Speaker 1: Who wouldn't want to be having some fucking tea and
Speaker 1: tea cakes right now?
Speaker 2: I know? Actually yeah, I want?
Speaker 1: Can we make tea and teacakes after this?
Speaker 2: I'm going to google a teacake recipe?
Speaker 1: Do it? So? Anyways, we digress again. Despite the curse, though,
Speaker 1: everything seemed to be going well currently, but only a
Speaker 1: few months before Giuseppe's eighteenth birthday, Leonarda would find herself
Speaker 1: terrified of her ill omens once again. See Giuseppe came
Speaker 1: home one evening and instead of doing the usual routine
Speaker 1: of tea cakes and tea with his mother, he sat
Speaker 1: down and he told her that he'd enrolled in the
Speaker 1: Italian Army.
Speaker 2: Okay, I thought that he was going to be like
Speaker 2: have died already kind of thing or not saying that
Speaker 2: you go in the army, you're going to die, But
Speaker 2: like he's putting himself in a dangerous situation. That's kind
Speaker 2: of what made her worried.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. She Well, she knew that a this curse
Speaker 1: was going to take her son too if he was
Speaker 1: going to go on the army, that was her perspective, right,
Speaker 1: and he was enrolling right at the beginning of World
Speaker 1: War II. Okay, Yeah, so she became basically desperate to
Speaker 1: save him because going off to war at this time
Speaker 1: coming back is not you not really got the odds
Speaker 1: in your favor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, especially yeah, with this extra curse that is
Speaker 2: over his head.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, So she knew that she needed to save
Speaker 1: him somehow, and she only had a few months till
Speaker 1: he was officially old enough to join the army, so
Speaker 1: she was going to try and use her time wisely
Speaker 1: while she had it. She came up with a plan,
Speaker 1: and her plan was to give back to the people
Speaker 1: of Coreego, thinking that if she managed to put enough
Speaker 1: good energy out there into the world, into her town,
Speaker 1: that it would protect her son when he went off
Speaker 1: to war. And Leonarda knew exactly where to start.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Remember, the people of Coreaga came to Leonarda for all
Speaker 1: kinds of reasons, right when they were sick. They sometimes
Speaker 1: went to her before they even went to the doctor,
Speaker 1: for example. They came to her for advice, and they
Speaker 1: came to her when they had problems that looked like
Speaker 1: only a little bit of extra magic would be able
Speaker 1: to solve. And one day Leonarda had one of those
Speaker 1: people sitting in her kitchen. Now, her name was Faustina Setti.
Speaker 1: She was on the lookout for a husband. And by
Speaker 1: this time, Fastina was only or was already seventy three
Speaker 1: years old. Holy okay, she'd never been married, and she
Speaker 1: was getting on in age, of course, and she wanted
Speaker 1: to know what life would be like as a married
Speaker 1: individual before she died.
Speaker 2: I just say that it's nothing bad that she's looking
Speaker 2: for a husband at that age, But just at that age,
Speaker 2: I feel like if I hadn't found anyone and.
Speaker 1: Be like you'd turn into the village witch.
Speaker 2: I'd just be fine with it, I feel. But to
Speaker 2: still be looking at that age, that's impressive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she she wanted to be married. It was kind
Speaker 1: of her lifelong goal to make sure she married before
Speaker 1: she died. Okay, so this looked like the perfect situation
Speaker 1: for Leonardo to try and solve. Yeah, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: makes a little love potion number nine and bam, she's
Speaker 1: good to go. You didn't get that, never mind? Never
Speaker 1: mind that was a reference to a song love Potion
Speaker 1: number nine.
Speaker 2: No, I did get that, well, why didn't you? Sorry,
Speaker 2: that was hilarious.
Speaker 1: Come on now, and that was good.
Speaker 2: That was good. Good job, Thank.
Speaker 1: You, thank you, thank you for the pity laugh.
Speaker 2: No, I'm just so enthralled with the story.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, gotcha. Well, anyways, she managed to pull this off,
Speaker 1: and she was thinking, pulling this off will put the
Speaker 1: best energy out there. Giuseppe should be safe. You know,
Speaker 1: good energy would out overdo the bad, good karma sort
Speaker 1: of thing, right, Okay.
Speaker 2: I was worried that she was going to offer her
Speaker 2: son to her. No, okay, that's not what happened.
Speaker 1: Okay, No, fixing this lifelong dream was basically the way
Speaker 1: that she would protect him while he's at war. Right,
Speaker 1: So Leonarda agreed, and she had someone another client in
Speaker 1: a different village who was around the same age as Fastina,
Speaker 1: and just so happened to be looking for a wife
Speaker 1: as well. So Fastina began writing letters to her new
Speaker 1: future husband, and he even wrote some letters back to her.
Speaker 1: Little did Fastina know, though, that it was actually Leonarda
Speaker 1: who wrote the responding letters.
Speaker 2: Oh, she was just faking this. That is not good
Speaker 2: karma at all. This this person didn't exist then, correct?
Speaker 1: Correct?
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, I can't see how she thinks this is good.
Speaker 1: Oh she knows this isn't good. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1: Things were going exactly as planned for Leonarda. She knew
Speaker 1: this wasn't good. Let's just say that. All she would
Speaker 1: need now was Fristina to write some postcards explaining to
Speaker 1: her friends and family where she was going, and she
Speaker 1: would pay Leonarda for her services. Now Fastina took out
Speaker 1: her entire life savings, which was about thirty thousand lire,
Speaker 1: which equals out to about three hundred and thirty two
Speaker 1: US dollars today. She headed over to Leonarda's house, paid her,
Speaker 1: and there she wrote the postcards and got ready to
Speaker 1: head out for the trip of a lifetime to meet
Speaker 1: her soon to be a husband, or so she thought.
Speaker 1: In celebration before she took off, Leonarda poured them both
Speaker 1: a glass of wine to start the trip off on
Speaker 1: the right foot. The two of them said cheers. Fustina
Speaker 1: took a sip of the wine and dropped to the floor.
Speaker 2: What the fuck. Well, I got what's going on here?
Speaker 2: Keep going well.
Speaker 1: Leonarda told everyone that she was looking to do good
Speaker 1: things to help protect her son when he went out
Speaker 1: to the war. Yeah, but her actual plans have been
Speaker 1: completely different. By then, she had learned that the universe
Speaker 1: didn't give, it took, and it was about to take
Speaker 1: her son's life. The only thing Leonarda could do to
Speaker 1: stop that from happening was to give the universe another
Speaker 1: life instead of taking her son's. Giuseppes.
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, yeah, I was I wasn't gonna go WHOA.
Speaker 2: I can't believe this. I'm like, lost your flabbergast, I
Speaker 2: literally because I didn't expect this. And now I'm like,
Speaker 2: fuck do I even say? Because I really liked her?
Speaker 2: Now what the fuck is she doing?
Speaker 1: See what I said? See what I said? When there's
Speaker 1: like essentially two stories to.
Speaker 2: This, Yeah, okay, wow.
Speaker 1: So she had clearly obviously spiked the wine, and after
Speaker 1: Fustina had fell to the floor and began losing the
Speaker 1: ability to move and most importantly, defend herself, Leonarda took
Speaker 1: one of her axes, swung it high in the air
Speaker 1: above her head, and struck down towards her on the ground.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, she killed her while she laid on
Speaker 1: the kitchen floor. That's a pretty brutal way to die too.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And there she laid, lifeless in pools of
Speaker 1: her own blood, and her lifelong goal of being married
Speaker 1: now just a thing of the past. Leonarda dragged her
Speaker 1: lifeless body over and stuffed Fustina into a cupboard. She
Speaker 1: then began to clean up the scene and got to
Speaker 1: work again. Once ready, she drained Fustina's body of all
Speaker 1: its blood, letting it sit in the kitchen basin and
Speaker 1: slowly coagulate. She then chopped Fustina's body into nine different parts.
Speaker 1: She poured kilos of caustic soda that she'd usually used
Speaker 1: for making soaps together with the body parts into pots,
Speaker 1: and then boiled Fustina away. Leonarda then took the coagulated
Speaker 1: blood that she had in the basin baked it into
Speaker 1: the oven until it was dry and brittle, before she
Speaker 1: ground it into flour, which she then used to bake
Speaker 1: her teacakes.
Speaker 2: Are you shitting me right now?
Speaker 1: Nope?
Speaker 2: What the fuck just happened to this story? I was
Speaker 2: like kind of enjoying this kind of like wondering exactly
Speaker 2: where the fuck it was gonna go. And then this
Speaker 2: is just like what.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like fucking missus love it's meat pies
Speaker 1: and shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, in her own words, she said, I mixed it
Speaker 1: with flour, sugar, chocolate, milk, and eggs, as well as
Speaker 1: a bit of margarine, needing all the ingredients together. I
Speaker 1: made lots of crunchy teacakes and served them to the
Speaker 1: ladies who came to visit. Though Giuseppe and I also ate.
Speaker 2: Them, she even herself ate that.
Speaker 1: She even ate them.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And when she was done with Faustina's body, she took
Speaker 1: the remains, the leftovers, if you will, and poured it
Speaker 1: into septic tanks, and no one was the wiser.
Speaker 2: Wow. And here everyone just thinks this lady is off
Speaker 2: with her husband, her new husband. Yeah, hm, not wild.
Speaker 1: It is theorized that maybe Leonarda was thinking that by
Speaker 1: serving Giuseppe and herself the cake, she was protecting them
Speaker 1: and most importantly him, from the war. Who knows what,
Speaker 1: but her motivations must have seemed a bit shaky, even
Speaker 1: to herself, because it didn't take long for Leonarda to
Speaker 1: start thinking that she maybe hadn't done enough, and she
Speaker 1: couldn't let the opportunity to make sure Giuseppe was safe
Speaker 1: slip through her fingers. When another opportunity presented.
Speaker 2: Itself, another opportunity to kill I'm assuming here well.
Speaker 1: A woman named Francesca Sovie came to Leonarda, not to
Speaker 1: ask for a cure or from a curse, or help
Speaker 1: her with a lifelong dream, but for something a little
Speaker 1: more practical. Francesca was looking for a job, and Leonarda
Speaker 1: said that she knew of one. The only problem was
Speaker 1: it wasn't a different village, so Francesca would have to
Speaker 1: leave everything behind if she wanted to take it. The
Speaker 1: job was a good one. Francesca was going to be
Speaker 1: a teacher in a girls' school, and she decided to
Speaker 1: go for it. Leonarda convinced Francesca to send postcards to
Speaker 1: her friends and family, explaining that she was moving and
Speaker 1: that it may take a while for them to be
Speaker 1: in touch with each other again. After that, Francesca stopped
Speaker 1: by Leonarda's house, paid her three thousand liar for all
Speaker 1: of Leonarda's troubles and hard work, and then before she
Speaker 1: set off, Leonarda offered her a celebratory glass of wine. Francesca,
Speaker 1: probably with a huge sense of excitement, took the sip
Speaker 1: of her wine, and just like before, she hit the ground,
Speaker 1: and Leonarda again took one of her axes and killed
Speaker 1: the woman lying helplessly in her kitchen floor, before making
Speaker 1: flour out of her blood and boiling her body away.
Speaker 2: Wow, this is so bizarre. Yeah, like bizarre. Does her
Speaker 2: family realize what the I mean? I assume they don't
Speaker 2: realize what she's up to here.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I'm pretty sure they would have
Speaker 1: said something otherwise. So, And there isn't much said about
Speaker 1: her family outside of this either, so it's hard to
Speaker 1: know for sure now. The second murder, though, kept Leonarda
Speaker 1: happy for a while, but with Giuseppe's birthday creeping closer
Speaker 1: and closer, she began to grow uneasy again. This time,
Speaker 1: she knew she had to do something special to make
Speaker 1: sure her favorite son didn't end up falling victim to
Speaker 1: her mother's curse and dying like her other children had
Speaker 1: in the past. This time, Leonarda struck a little closer
Speaker 1: to home. Virginia Kachiopo was one of Leonarda's friends. The
Speaker 1: two spent a lot of time together, having tea and
Speaker 1: eating cakes, but Virginia was a bit restless. She'd once
Speaker 1: been an opera singer who'd performed at Lescala in my
Speaker 1: Land before she'd moved to Coreego with her husband to
Speaker 1: settle down with a family. But Virginia was now a widow,
Speaker 1: and she knew that Leonarda had already helped two other
Speaker 1: village women completely change their lives. So Virginia wanted to
Speaker 1: travel again. She wanted to get away from the small
Speaker 1: town village life, and one of her best friends was
Speaker 1: able to get her away out. Leonardo kneu Of, an
Speaker 1: organizer who worked putting concerts, in plays and operas together,
Speaker 1: and he was looking for a secretary.
Speaker 2: Conveniently enough, of course, she knew of this, yes, right.
Speaker 1: The only problem was he lived and worked in Florence,
Speaker 1: so if Virginia wanted to take the job, she'd have
Speaker 1: to leave everything behind and move there.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, okay, And I'm all I can think
Speaker 2: about right now is like, so she it's going to
Speaker 2: go down again exact probably em A that she's done
Speaker 2: with these other two people, and for Virginia to be
Speaker 2: so laying on the ground paralyzed. Hm and just like
Speaker 2: what is going through her head? Like these other two people,
Speaker 2: they did not start a new life like she killed them.
Speaker 2: That would be the only Like you just be in
Speaker 2: shock and.
Speaker 1: Like what and this is your friend? Yeah above you.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's brutal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we're not quite there yet. But at this
Speaker 1: moment in time, Virginia was delighted. She got everything organized
Speaker 1: to move to Florence to start a new job. On
Speaker 1: her last night in Coreego, she went to visit her
Speaker 1: old friend who set up all this for her, and
Speaker 1: the two shared hit bottle of wine together.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: Virginia toasted Leonarda and took a sip of the glass
Speaker 1: of wine, and that was that. Leonarda murdered her good
Speaker 1: friend Virginia with an axe before making flour out of
Speaker 1: her blood and boiling her body away like the others.
Speaker 1: But while what was left of Virginia's body was on
Speaker 1: the stove, Leonarda noticed something special about Virginia's remains. If
Speaker 1: we shall and what was this? To quote her, she says,
Speaker 1: her flesh was fat and white when it melted. I
Speaker 1: added a bottle of Colone and after a long time
Speaker 1: on the boil, I was able to make some most
Speaker 1: acceptable creamy soap. I gave bars to neighbors and acquaintances.
Speaker 1: The cakes, too, were better. That woman was really sweet.
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: So she rendered her fat down, made fat or made
Speaker 1: soap out of it, and then apparently her tea cakes
Speaker 1: were sweeter than the other, the.
Speaker 2: Best of any Yes, I mean, I mean, oh, I
Speaker 2: don't know. I guess it's slightly a compost, but also
Speaker 2: like really weird. This is so brotal.
Speaker 1: I don't know if i'd say that's.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you're going to end up being a
Speaker 2: what is it a tea cup.
Speaker 1: A tea cake, a tea cake, a tea.
Speaker 2: Cup, like you'd want your you to be the best
Speaker 2: tea cake. I guess I'm just saying, at least she's
Speaker 2: the best tea cake. I guess I don't know that that's.
Speaker 1: One hell of a silver lining.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just trying to put a positive spin on there.
Speaker 1: At least I made a damn good tea cake, all right.
Speaker 1: My soap was creamy too.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's just brutal. These poor people, Yeah, because the
Speaker 2: deaths are just horrid. How she's doing it.
Speaker 1: And she also of course made sure that Giuseppe used
Speaker 1: the soap made out of Virginia's body, of course, and
Speaker 1: with that she believed that she had officially protected her
Speaker 1: son from dying in the war. She's like, okay, this
Speaker 1: has to do it.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting, okay.
Speaker 1: Especially with the soap, you know, probably creating like a
Speaker 1: freaking shell or armor on him or something, who knows, right, So.
Speaker 2: In her brain she has convinced herself that she's done
Speaker 2: what she needs to do exactly.
Speaker 1: Now. There is another twist in Leonarda's story, another prophecy
Speaker 1: that was destined to come true. So unlike the other two,
Speaker 1: Virginia had family living in Coreego, and they noticed when
Speaker 1: she suddenly disappeared. She had also spoken about the job
Speaker 1: Leonarda had found her, while the previous two had actually
Speaker 1: remained silent about what was going on at Leonarda's request.
Speaker 1: Even though Virginia was requested to stay silent about it
Speaker 1: until things came into fruition as well, she wasn't quite
Speaker 1: as tight lipped. She was a bit more chatty a
Speaker 1: little bit, and when her family realized that she was
Speaker 1: actually nowhere to be found, before she was actually even
Speaker 1: supposed to take off for this job. They decided to
Speaker 1: go to the police and report her missing, who then
Speaker 1: came knocking on Leonarda's door and asked if she knew
Speaker 1: where Virginia had gone. Leonarda told them the story about
Speaker 1: Virginia moving to Florence, but the police they weren't quite convinced.
Speaker 1: By this time as well, there were rumors of an
Speaker 1: upsetting smell coming from Leonarda's home. Now, this is kind
Speaker 1: of just hearsay sort of stuff, but this is kind
Speaker 1: of something I wanted to throw it here and just
Speaker 1: mention now. It was occasionally apparently the smell coming up
Speaker 1: through the floors, though no one really seemed to think
Speaker 1: much of it, as you know, she was liked in
Speaker 1: the community and you had a good reputation. But from
Speaker 1: what I can deduce, the smell was coming from what
Speaker 1: she was pouring down the train right coming up from
Speaker 1: the septic tank or septic field through the floorboards into
Speaker 1: her house and potentially surrounding.
Speaker 2: Areas, which honestly makes sense.
Speaker 1: It does, it really does, because it's not like that
Speaker 1: body is getting washed away into the river somewhere.
Speaker 2: No, So she's like very very near.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so it does make sense that that occurred.
Speaker 1: So now the police, they weren't buying much of her story,
Speaker 1: and they began poking around the house and Leonarda's other
Speaker 1: stories regarding the other women were kind of starting to
Speaker 1: fall apart as well, and it didn't take them long
Speaker 1: to make these connections. Leonardo was found to actually be
Speaker 1: selling articles of clothing and shoes that had belonged to
Speaker 1: some of these women. What yeah, And as soon as
Speaker 1: that connection was made, she was arrested.
Speaker 2: Okay, that doesn't seem like the brightest.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it doesn't, but in her like who
Speaker 1: what she was thinking is, who's going to know, like
Speaker 1: these shoes belong to the specific women, show herself to
Speaker 1: some other random person. But then when that random person
Speaker 1: begins being like, oh yeah those are so and so,
Speaker 1: yeah sure, like you know, I.
Speaker 2: Feel like it would be that would be that was
Speaker 2: a mistake.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. So Leonarda was found to be selling these
Speaker 1: articles of clothing, she was arrested, and it actually didn't
Speaker 1: take long for the police to began thinking outside the
Speaker 1: box a little bit. They were thinking that there's no
Speaker 1: way she did this alone, and they began to suspect
Speaker 1: that her son Giuseppe was also involved. Oh now this
Speaker 1: terrified Leonarda, and she didn't want anything to happen to
Speaker 1: her precious son, her favorite child, and she admitted everything.
Speaker 2: Just like that. Eh yep, I mean, okay, not that
Speaker 2: the police intended for that to be. But that is
Speaker 2: actually an amazing interrogation method, is it not? Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure, I mean that's not what they actually thought
Speaker 2: he was involved, like as far as it's.
Speaker 1: Hell, they actually thought he could have potentially been involved.
Speaker 2: But that is, like, that's a good interrogation method if
Speaker 2: if one's ever needed.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, like, oh we believe so and so was
Speaker 1: involved in this too. Do you have anything to say
Speaker 1: about that? Motherfucker? Oh my god, no, it was just
Speaker 1: me like that.
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like nine out of ten parents would
Speaker 2: probably protect their or probably even higher would protect their
Speaker 2: kid and take all the blame, especially if they had
Speaker 2: nothing to do with it. Even if they did, they'd
Speaker 2: probably just still take all the blame.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But we police don't want to just get someone
Speaker 1: to falsely admit something. They want to figure the shit
Speaker 1: actually happened, though, right touche. They don't want to force
Speaker 1: someone to just take the blame.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this were well, this was a good scenario
Speaker 2: here got her to blab away.
Speaker 1: Definitely, and so she was arrested. Like I already mentioned,
Speaker 1: Giseppe got to walk free, and she admitted everything. She
Speaker 1: admitted everything from luring the women in with false pretenses
Speaker 1: to spiking their wine to chopping them up with a
Speaker 1: fucking lat using their remains to produce, to procure foods
Speaker 1: and soaps and that's sold in their shop and feeds
Speaker 1: the community, herself and her son. She admitted it.
Speaker 2: All that poor community. After realizing what they were like eating.
Speaker 1: Could you imagine?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's nasty, I know, And just thinking about it,
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, the biggest thing that gets me is
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about baking blood to get like blood chips,
Speaker 3: and then grinding it down into flour and then using
Speaker 3: it to bake.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's actually amazing that no one well no,
Speaker 2: I guess you're cooking. And I was like, people could
Speaker 2: get sick, but you are cooking.
Speaker 1: What if she's just like it. What if she's just
Speaker 1: like because because it's like all died red or something,
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, it's just red velvet.
Speaker 2: That's my special red velvet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, secret ingredients.
Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah, and everyone's just like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: it's the best thing I ever tasted.
Speaker 1: No thanks. Regardless of she was clearly tried for these
Speaker 1: three murders. She was tried in nineteen forty six, where
Speaker 1: she appeared casually and uncaringly in court. She even actually
Speaker 1: was reportedly correcting the judge over certain details on how
Speaker 1: the crime was committed and played out.
Speaker 2: Wow, that seems wild. Why what's the point of that.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't really get it.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: I think that to this point it might be boasting
Speaker 1: about it and prideful.
Speaker 2: Yes she accomplished.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so her fate was sealed. Leonarda's sentence was sentenced
Speaker 1: sorry to thirty years in prison, followed by three years
Speaker 1: in an Assam asylum, which she would die of a
Speaker 1: stroke in nineteen seventy while serving what remained of her
Speaker 1: sentence in the asylum. So, whether or not the curse
Speaker 1: was true, all the fortunes told on her came true,
Speaker 1: every single fortune, the multiple deaths of her children at
Speaker 1: young ages, the prison sentence, and even the time in
Speaker 1: an asylum.
Speaker 2: Wow, yes, like that makes it believable.
Speaker 1: It does. I mean, maybe the curse is true, or
Speaker 1: maybe it's coincidence, or maybe maybe the idea of this
Speaker 1: curse drove her to the brink of insanity itself and
Speaker 1: caused her to live that very life that she so
Speaker 1: desperately tried to avoid.
Speaker 2: I just feel like that's quite a coincidence.
Speaker 1: It's especially when you get down to those children.
Speaker 2: To that amount of children, you know, I mean, because
Speaker 2: a lot of them she did end up birthing right.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think it was ten children that she Wow,
Speaker 1: four miscarriages. I know four survived. I can't remember the
Speaker 1: exact numbers, but yeah, there was quite a few that
Speaker 1: died at young ages.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I just feel like, how could that. I
Speaker 2: don't know, like someone couldn't have that bad of luck.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's the right wording.
Speaker 1: And placebo effect only goes so far, right, but I
Speaker 1: think like she had some pretty severe mental things going on,
Speaker 1: even if it was just down to being concerned and
Speaker 1: stressed over this potential curse. And I mean, I'm no doctor,
Speaker 1: I'm no physician, I'm no practitioner and nothing in the
Speaker 1: medical field, but some stress like that has to take
Speaker 1: a toll on a woman's body when she is carrying
Speaker 1: a child.
Speaker 2: Stress is evil.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if stress is akin to potentially
Speaker 1: pushing miscarriages, but that very well sounds applicable to me.
Speaker 1: If she is that concerned over a cur this curse,
Speaker 1: maybe it pushed into her pregnancies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they say like stress is the new smoking, right,
Speaker 2: it can do very bad things to your body.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it can very bad.
Speaker 2: It's intense, so I mean, I mean not that this
Speaker 2: was back in the day, but still it was still
Speaker 2: in the same effect today. But yeah, I could cause
Speaker 2: some serious issues for.
Speaker 1: Her hundred percent. So yeah, that's the case. It's a
Speaker 1: wild one.
Speaker 2: Yeah that to me, this case doesn't even like is
Speaker 2: are you sure this is a true crime? Are you sure?
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's like two fucking stories.
Speaker 2: I know, I actually have a hard time believing that
Speaker 2: this is even legit, that this has legitimately happened.
Speaker 1: It was an interesting one to research, going back and
Speaker 1: actually reading these. I had to double take a lot
Speaker 1: of times, Like rereading these, I mean, okay, wait, what
Speaker 1: the fuck? Because it's it threw me for quite the
Speaker 1: curveball quite a few times.
Speaker 2: It seems like this should be a sitcom or something
Speaker 2: or sit call something, but not a legit true crime story. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's one of the most bizarre ones. I would admit.
Speaker 1: I don't know if i'd say a sitcom though, because
Speaker 1: sitcoms are generally comedy. That's why it's okay.
Speaker 2: Movie TV series, TV series. There is a drama, a drama.
Speaker 1: Yes, there we go.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, because this was not funny. I'm I'm not
Speaker 2: putting light to any of this.
Speaker 1: No, No, I know what you mean. I just saying sitcom.
Speaker 1: I don't think that quite quite fits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I know what you're saying, but just something
Speaker 2: made up?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, Well, do you have anything we got to
Speaker 1: talk about at the end of this? We got to
Speaker 1: wrap anything up. Do we have to point anyone in
Speaker 1: any direction?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: We do.
Speaker 2: We do one thing we should If you're listening to
Speaker 2: this is what is Well, we're recording this on the twentieth,
Speaker 2: but tomorrow is the twenty first, when this is released. Yeah,
Speaker 2: check our Instagram, so it might be happening on there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Should should uh should check.
Speaker 2: It out at some point during that day. I don't
Speaker 2: know what time, but at some point, at.
Speaker 1: Some point just keep an eye open because something happening
Speaker 1: over there. I don't know if you understood what I
Speaker 1: just said. Something might be happening over there. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: all the links for our social medias are down the
Speaker 1: description of this podcast. You can get website, you can
Speaker 1: get Instagram, Facebook, you can get merch, you name it. YouTube,
Speaker 1: it's all down there.
Speaker 2: We got it all.
Speaker 1: Check it out. Also, if you're feeling just that little
Speaker 1: extra generous, you can go ahead and give us a rating.
Speaker 1: Ratings help us a lot. We got a couple recently
Speaker 1: that were really nice and we appreciate reading them. So
Speaker 1: thank you to you guys out there who have given
Speaker 1: us those ratings. They mean the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they really do help. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But if you don't want to do it, that's
Speaker 1: cool too. You're here and we appreciate that just the same.
Speaker 1: So thank you.
Speaker 2: Well done on this. I feel like that'd been such
Speaker 2: an in trusting one to research. It was.
Speaker 1: It was very interesting, to say the least.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: I think I might be like thinking about curses for
Speaker 1: the next few weeks, and I don't know, thinking how
Speaker 1: they apply in my life. Maybe I've been cursed or hole.
Speaker 1: I think I have been cursed with beauty. Oh look
Speaker 1: at this beard. It's magnificent, majestic. This is clearly a curse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like your man bun's about to come in.
Speaker 1: Exactly long story, long story, But I'm growing a man bun.
Speaker 2: Ben is growing a man bun.
Speaker 1: And the reason why I'm bringing has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with me. I said one day I should grow a
Speaker 1: man bun, and Nicole said, you would never, and here
Speaker 1: we are. So now I'm growing a man bun, specifically
Speaker 1: in spite and to prove it wrong that I would.
Speaker 2: But apparently at any point I can tell him to
Speaker 2: get a haircut and it's gone.
Speaker 1: But if she does that.
Speaker 2: Then I lose. I win. This is so absurd. It's
Speaker 2: so absurd. This is just married life in the Gibson House.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with a man bun and a cursed beard of
Speaker 1: beauty first of beauty.
Speaker 2: Maybe you guys will one day be able to see
Speaker 2: what Ben looks like with a man bun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should have maybe put up a pole if
Speaker 1: if it'll actually happen.
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know. It's your hair is getting
Speaker 2: pretty long. We might have to do like progress reports
Speaker 2: and ship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we might, although I did specify that I'm allowed
Speaker 1: to get a trim to shape it up because I
Speaker 1: got a weird shaped my hair right now.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I necessarily agreed to that, but yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: there we go. Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, thanks for staying around, especially if you're here
Speaker 1: right now. We appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just gonna say, you guys know about Ben's
Speaker 2: man bun.
Speaker 1: You're a true fan, no kidding, All right, Well, thanks
Speaker 1: sticking around, Thanks for listening. We appreciate you all, and
Speaker 1: as of course, until next time, stay wicked
Speaker 3: And