Speaker 1: You are listening to Petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2: Well, Hello, Hello, welcome, welcome, you are here live with
doctor Jeff Webber, host of Ask the Bets with Doctor
Jeff here on pet Life.
Speaker 3: Radio, the only, I think, the only live.
Speaker 2: Show where you actually get to call in and ask
us questions. You get to go online and ask questions,
and in exchange for the question and hopefully my answer
a good one, I alle the least, we will send
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and we will send that out to you as well.
Simply for calling in and talking to us. Anything you
want to say about your pets, any question you have,
you name it, We're here for you. As a matter
of fact, we have been here for the last several months.
I'm afraid to even guess how many shows we've done.
On Thursdays, it's been live one o'clock Pacific time and
four o'clock Eastern time. And this is our last Thursday show.
So for all of you listening and have not had
an opportunity to give us a call or to go
online at petlife radio dot com to ask me a question,
you can just key it in under join the conversation.
We are moving to Sunday mornings. We're moving to Sunday
because we want to accommodate you and the feedback has
been that more of you are available to talk to
us on Sunday morning. So my great producer, Mark Winter
and I are going to be setting up on nine
o'clock Pacific time, which is noon Eastern time. So that'll
give you guys a chance. In the East that like
to get up late, still give us an opportunity. And
here in the West, we'd like to get up early anyway,
because many of us are already up in exercising by
the time nine o'clock rolls around. So join us here
on pet Life Radio ask the best with doctor Jeff.
And it's so easy to get a hold of us.
Simply pick up the phone dial eight seven seven three
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Speaker 3: Go to pet Life Radio.
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and go ahead and just there where it says, join
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the past.
Speaker 3: You name it, We're here for you.
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Veterinary Products, the pro sends line of pet products available
at our mass retail partners such as Walmart and Target.
So anyway, I wanted to share for any of you
that are listening to us in the West Coast, proferly
Los Angeles area, our friends at Kanng Veterinai Products and
best Friends Animal Society, which is a fantastic They've been
on our show before. We've talked about best Friends and
they are They have a benefit that's coming up. It's
going to be June twenty first, that's a Saturday evening
in downtown Los Angeles. And basically what they did they
talking about the charities called More Than a Cone. And
of course we talk about the Cone of Shame all
the time and what they thought would be really cool
is how can we get this Cone of Shame to
not be such a shameful piece of equipment if you will,
or a portion of your pets attire to embarrass them.
So what they did is they started to call in
some of the major artists and they identify and invited
thirty influential artists to sort of reimagine the Cone of
Shame as an art piece. And these famous artists were
given a cone or cones with which to use as
their canvas and they have designed, have painted upon these cones,
and their works of art are going to be displayed
at this benefit. It's going to be an art auction.
They're going to be auctioned off and the launch party
and it's going to be here in La and it
should be loads of fun. So if any of you
are listening here, it is only one o'clock in the afternoon,
no excuse if you're going to be available June twenty first,
twenty fourteen. If you like more information, you can contact
me directly at Dr Jeff Doctor Jeff at Petlife Radio
dot com. You can also go on to more than
a Cone dot com at m O R E.
Speaker 3: T H.
Speaker 2: A n A c on e all one word more
than a cone dot com and get some information on
this great, great charity. I think it's going to be
just it'll be a lot of fun. So, you know,
I just had an email from a client of mine
who happens to be a back east and very nervous
about a diagnosis instantly. She has two dogs and both
have a form of cancer, and they're both older dogs,
and she was a bit nervous about the treatment possibilities,
the prognosis, et cetera, and was actually thinking of on
one of them in particular, maybe it's time. She had
been through a tough cancer treatment with a prior dog
and thought that maybe at the time, you know, again,
this is really when you have to evaluate many factors
when it comes to cancer. And I would like to
hear from any of you, good, bad, or ugly that
had an experience, just any experience with cancer and treatment,
whether it was a good experience a bad experience. Would
you do it again? What do you know now that
you wish you had known then, and why don't you.
Speaker 3: Share it with us?
Speaker 2: Because I, over the years have gotten a bit on
the practical side, and I know for a fact, with
one of my old cats, I probably took it too
far that I probably should have stopped a little earlier.
And I knew it when one of my kids came
to me after we put the old guy to sleep
and put him in that final, really nice resting place,
and he said to me, Dad, we waited too long,
And boy did that hit me like a brick wall.
I think that we often hoping, always hopefully optimistic people.
We want to think the best. You know here, statistics,
you go online, you read online. There is nothing that's
going to replace the experience of treating a pet with
cancer other than the actual experience. You can't learn it
from online. You can't learn it from talking to other
people have done it. You have to do it by yourself,
having had been through it, and then make a decision.
But I need to caution that there are many, many
different types of cancer, and the one that a prior
pet may have had almost like saying to a person
who's lived through which are very few, by the way,
or had a family member that had lost a battle
to pancreatic cancer, a very very aggressive, hardly any treatment
possibility cancer, Well, they hear the word cancer again and
Immediately what comes to their mind is pancreatic. Having lived
through that experience, they say, oh my god, never again.
I'm not going to even I wouldn't put anybody through that.
I wouldn't put my worst enemy through that. Contrast that
to someone who might have a lymphoma like a Hotskin's lymphoma,
something that has amazing treatment success or My own daughter
went through a which called papillary thyroid carcinoma, which is
a cancer of the thyroid plan and she had it
when she was very young, twenty five. And again these
are very curable. Anyone who's been through that might say, oh, no,
of course you're not. Of course you can treat because
look how great it is. So understand, First of all,
the caution comes from not making a decision as to
what or how we should treat a future case of
a cancer diagnosis based on only on prior experience, unless
the new case is exactly the same cancer as the
original one. And if you had a bad experience, you're
going to say no way. If you had a good experience,
you're gonna go, oh no, absolutely, we got to, of
course give it the shot. And this particular cancer and
this old dog is what's called the mass cell tumor. Now,
a couple of things to know about mass cell tumors.
First of all, yes, it is a malignant tumor. There
are basically three grades now.
Speaker 3: It used to be more complicated.
Speaker 2: Now they're breaking it down to three a grade one,
two and three on a grade one and two if
good margins are achieved. And what that means is when
the surgery is done to excise the cancer, it is
critical to get wide margins. They say about you know
a number two and a half three centimeters and you
want so you want to get fairly wide margins and
that includes depth too, so at least an inch if
you can do more, if the skin will allow it,
get two inches and get as deep.
Speaker 3: As you can.
Speaker 2: And traditionally, with a grade of a one or two
and clean margins, you could cure that cancer.
Speaker 3: That could be cured.
Speaker 2: Case in point, my four year old well then four
year old labrador now thirteen, had a grade two mass sell.
We got good margins, and need I say more, it's
been nine years and he is totally cancer free. Now,
if you do the excellent surgery and you have clean
margins and it comes back a grade three.
Speaker 3: Then this is where the staging comes into play.
Speaker 2: So we might need to stage this cancer, and then
that means taking some samples of lymph nodes, spleen, liver
to see if the cancer has already spread to these organs.
Speaker 3: If not, then there are some options. Number one is
do nothing and watch.
Speaker 2: Number two would be to seek the advice of an
oncologist and possibly go through some kind of treatment, which
is what I would probably red commend with the grade
three is a consult at the very least with an oncologist.
If the dog was already staged, you send those results
along with the appointment. If the dog was not staged,
the oncologists will probably advise staging and he or she
will do that, or he'll send you back to your
regular veterinarian for staging. But that is a decision you
want to make with the help of some experts. But
I would say for the vast majority of the mass
cells that we have removed, they've been at worse the
stage two I have had over the years have had.
Speaker 3: Some stage threes.
Speaker 2: We did want to play it more aggressively, though we
had good margins. We certainly opted to stage, and the
staging was clean, and we treated, we treated for a while,
and this dog now is again it's been three years
out and totally cancer free. So just I guess the
take home lesson here is, I don't want you to
think that cancer is always a death sentence. There are
a number of cancers that could be treated, a number
of cancers that we can be put into remission fairly
substantially and for quite a while. And then there are
certain cancers that we know the battle is going to
be lost, and the question is how much, to what
extent what do you want to do in the meantime
to keep the pet comfortable, knowing that it's only going
to be a temporary comfort and ultimately that tough decision
will need to be made. So we're going to take
a quick break. It is that time, boy goes fast
and stay tuned. We're going to just finish up this
conversation and please give us a call at eight seven
seven three eight five eight eight eight two, or just
join the conversation online here at petlife Radio dot com
click on ask Thevats with doctor Jeff. I want to
hear from you. Let's hear your experiences and what you
would advise or recommend or what you can share for
some of our other listeners. So don't go away, We'll
be right back here. Ask the Bats with Doctor Jeff
on pet Life Radio.
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Speaker 1: On demand only on Petlife Radio dot Com.
Speaker 3: Let's Talk, Let's done about headline Radio, pet Live Radio dot.
Speaker 2: Com and welcome back to ask the Best with doctor
Jeff Here on Pet Life Radio.
Speaker 3: I'm your host, doctor Jeff.
Speaker 2: Werber, and we have been talking about a very very
difficult subject, that of cancer, and the cautions that I'm
trying to present to you is to every cancer is different.
There are many many different organs, different cancers, different types
of cancers. Some of them are very treatable, just as
with people. Some of them are not very treatable. And
there's nothing wrong with the right advice, seeking the advice
of your general practitioner, possibly seeking the advice of an oncologist,
a veterinary oncologist that is a specialist who deals only
with animal cancer and helping you make decisions. And sometimes
I've had clients that are making decisions for what's best
for their pet, and I've actually.
Speaker 3: Had clients that were just not emotionally ready to say goodbye.
Speaker 2: They know they're going to have to, they know it's
a matter of time, maybe a short time, but they
want to proceed with treatment because they need time to
deal with that ultimate goodbye. And that's fine too, as
long as we keep the pets comfortable. But I don't
want you to be so fearful of the term cancer
that you don't get the information that you need, and
you potentially possibly hasten through a decision that you may
regret later on. The worst thing in the world is
to be at that party, be at that gathering, social
gathering talking about your pets cancer.
Speaker 3: That you put the pet to sleep.
Speaker 2: You just were so afraid of the treatment and the
term chemotherapy or radiation therapy, only to find out that
this other person right there in the conversation with you
how to pet with the xact same cancer that's still
alive because they proceeded with therapy. So it's very important
to get the facts. Facts differ. It's nothing wrong with
getting more than one opinion. And I think, as the
expression goes, knowledge is king. So you need to get
as much knowledge as you can. Get the information and
make some of the decisions that are appropriate for what's
best for you, what's best for your pet, And don't
listen to other people, especially non veterinarians or non experts,
because they just may not have all the important facts to.
Speaker 3: Help guide you.
Speaker 2: And again I'm the first you know, as I said,
I've done both. I've had dogs that I've treated and
have done great. I've had animals that I have treated
and probably shouldn't have or I treat it too long.
I didn't look at the clues, and I think all
of us are going to make that mistake.
Speaker 3: It's okay to get some information, get second opinions.
Speaker 2: I am sitting here at my desk here at my
office in LA and I am looking at these two
little I don't want to give them away because I
want to hear some guesses. But they are one of
the consummate ultimate springtime hazards. And I've already had in
the last probably week and a half, two weeks, two
or maybe even three dogs that have presented with this problem.
And I'm going to give you a second or two
to think about it. Notorious springtime, very common. I'll wait
a minute before I'm going to give you your first hint.
I want you to just write it down and see
if yes, that's exactly what you were thinking. Here's some hints.
A couple of places that I look most commonly or
the presenting complaint is a sore, often a drainage tract
inside between the toes. If that doesn't give it away,
you can also see a problem in the ear mouth
and even under the tail. And for those of you
that are scratching your head saying I have no clue,
hoping those of you, more of you at least know
what we're talking about. We're talking about the foxtail, and
it is not a fox's tail, it actually is. It
has the name because if you look at it, it
kind of has that look it resembles a fox's tail.
Speaker 3: A foxtail is what we call a plant on. It
is a.
Speaker 2: Small fibrous piece of weed, if you will, that has
a sharp point, and it sort of grows out from
there into it feathers out. It's a sort of a
hard and what's interesting. What's unique about the foxtail is
that there are very small, almost microscopic cillia hairs that
are pointing the opposite direction of the shape of the
foxtail itself, which makes for a very interesting problem. The
more the dog usually it's in dogs usually one of
the most commonplaces is interdigitally between the toes. The more
they try to lick and get rid of the foxtail,
like push it away, it actually goes in farther. And
I've had dogs that had to drain intract. We go
in with a device called an alligator foresep. Now, some
of my alligator forceps are six seven inches long. I
mean that's quite a ways up. So if you have
a medium sized dog and you're introducing the alligator foreset
between the toes, and you follow up that tract, it's
coming out somewhere near the elbow, just to put into perspective.
And I've had instances where that little sucker, that little foxtail, okay,
has migrated up a followed the drain ins tract and
ended up I would end up finding it literally literally
the length of my alligator foresteps, I mean six inches
up the leg, which is amazing to me. There have
been surgeries done on dogs with neurologic problems, back problems,
and the surgeon goes in and interestingly can find a
foxtail embedded within the spinal cord. How's that for a
little monstrous plant matter that obviously isn't alive. But this
thing only knows how to do one thing, and and
that is migrate farther and farther in. They rarely turn
around and go backwards by themselves back out of the
hole through which it went in in the first place.
They are very very difficult. I pulled one, I pulled
two out. Actually out of a dog's ear. And it
was interesting because the owner brought the dog in. The
dog was shaking its head a lot, scratching at the
ear and the ear. They took it to a groomer
for cleaning, and the groomer noticed that the ears were
pretty dirty. So the groomer went ahead and cleaned the ears.
Told the owner that the ears are nice and clean now.
But over the next ensuing two or three days, the
dog was continually shaking its head and scratching at the ear,
and noticed like a discharge, a dark waxy discharge coming
out of that ear. The other was great, by the way.
So now she comes to us and wants to know
why is this dog had ear problem? The ears were
cleaned days ago, and now having the problem again. So
I have this little handy device. It's an odoscope, So
it's a scope that goes down the ear, and the
back of it, instead of just having a little view
hole for me to look into, is actually a small
like a three inch led screen. So as I'm introducing
the device, the otoscope cone down into the ear, the
owner is seeing what I'm seeing right by viewing the screen.
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: So sure enough, as I'm introducing this otoscope cone right
down into the ear, and we're studying the ear canal,
and I'm seeing a lot of the debris, and what
do I suddenly see right back in front of me
two foxtails, one of which was actually by now embedded in.
Speaker 3: The ear drum.
Speaker 2: So we had two foxtails, one locked into the ear
drum called the timpanum. The other one sitting right next door,
looks like it was just waiting to go next. And
that's how foxtails sometimes can lodge into the brain, either
by being swallowed to the back of the throat or
by going through the ear. Now, what's so also fascinating
about these guys is that I once had a dog
come in who was not eating, no longer eating on
a hunger strike, opened the mouth and inside the tonsillar crypts,
that's the crypts where the tonsils are. I saw some foxtails,
and Neess sized the dog and I went crazy. I'd say,
in a half hour, must have pulled out forty foxtails
from this dog's tonsillar cryps. You couldn't imagine a the
horrendous odor, but be how uncomfortable this poor dog must
have been having these foxtails invading a very sensitive part
of the mouth, inside the tonsillar cryps that's where the
tonsils are, and coming up from anesthesia.
Speaker 3: This was a new dog.
Speaker 2: Of course, this dog had to be on pain medication.
This dog had to be on antibiotics. But this dog
felt like a million bucks. And I can't imagine what
the feeling must have been like to have all these foxtails,
these sharp, little hint pointed plant on digging into this
very sensitive tissue.
Speaker 3: That had to be difficult. So anyway, foxtail watch.
Speaker 2: What I recommend you do is when you have your
dogs outside hiking, walking, anywhere where there's shrubs, there's brushed areas,
you want to examine a few parts of the body.
Number one, examine the feet on the tops of the feet,
in between the toes, and then turn the feet upside
down and look in between all the pads. You'll if
you find a foxtail, you must remove it. Secondly, lift
up the tail. Sometimes they like to make their invasion.
They like to penetrate the tissue. They're a sensitive tissue
right around the tail. Thirdly, lift up the ears and
see if you can see any piece of the foxtail
that is sort of sitting around the opening to the
vertical canal. If so, of course you need to remove it.
And lastly check the mouth. You can pull the jowls away,
check inside. If you see a foxtail there, you'll see
it and remove it. And just know that wherever you
see one, the strong likelihood is there that there are
more than just one. So keep looking, don't stop there,
see if you can get them all anyway.
Speaker 3: Cancer foxtails last Thursday. All.
Speaker 2: We will be here June first, live Sunday morning, nine
o'clock Pacific time noon Eastern Daylight Savings time here on
Let's Talk Pets pet Life Radio with Doctor Jeff. Ask
the Vets with Doctor Jeff, and we will have some
fun and hopefully by then the offer still stands.
Speaker 3: Even though I expect to hear from more of you.
We are going to.
Speaker 2: Have our products are Calm and pro sens products ready
for you when you send us a text, an email
or give us a call. Until then, I'm doctor Jeff
Werber signing off. Ask the Vets with Doctor Jeff.
Speaker 1: Let's Talk Pets every week on demand only on Petlight
Radio dot com