Speaker 1: Oh well, thats are.
Speaker 2: Hell and welcome to the show. This is the Cult
Speaker 2: of Conspiracy and my name is Jonathan Jacob. Jacob. I
Speaker 2: don't know how our good cult members around the world
Speaker 2: are going to feel about this topic, And to be
Speaker 2: completely honest, I don't know how I'm going to feel
Speaker 2: about this topic. But let's get into it. What are
Speaker 2: we talking about today?
Speaker 3: All right? Right off the top before I say the
Speaker 3: title of this episode, although everybody listening to it has
Speaker 3: seen the title obviously, so just everybody's clear here. I
Speaker 3: didn't get into this with this intention at all. Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna paint you a scene here. My kids are
Speaker 3: off of school right now today and tomorrow for fall break,
Speaker 3: and as a matter of fact, speaking a fall break.
Speaker 3: Me and my son for opening weekend, right first weekend
Speaker 3: of October, we went out there for a squirrel hunt.
Speaker 3: We went to the old game reserve that I used
Speaker 3: to hunt on as a kid, that my dad brought
Speaker 3: me to. I was able to bring my son to
Speaker 3: super proud Papa moment. Here's the deal. I forgot how
Speaker 3: bad the fucking mosquitoes were in that particular neck of
Speaker 3: the woods. Dude, I shit, you not I was thinking
Speaker 3: about vlogging it. I was going to take a video
Speaker 3: of all the whole experience to wake up, the drive,
Speaker 3: the hunt, all the things, and I was gonna make
Speaker 3: a YouTube videos out of that and put it on
Speaker 3: the cage tonight. Right, because I haven't done anything on
Speaker 3: that in a couple of weeks. Is I'm compiling a
Speaker 3: video to explain why that is. But it's it's crazy
Speaker 3: that I've had this many curve balls hit me right
Speaker 3: as I opened it up. That's the year hinder there.
Speaker 2: Jacob's not used to being a full time podcaster yet,
Speaker 2: so his life he's you know, it's it's fun trying
Speaker 2: to stack the legos and figure out how the castle
Speaker 2: is going to look. But you know, sometimes it can
Speaker 2: be right right, I've been in this kind of mode
Speaker 2: for actually, I've been full full time podcasting for a
Speaker 2: year as of this month now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I started October last year the rat Race a
Speaker 3: year before me, which was excellent.
Speaker 2: So it takes a little bit of time. And even
Speaker 2: back then, we weren't doing five a week.
Speaker 3: No, yeah, no, we weren't full time in it really
Speaker 3: until now. But that's also because we couldn't because of
Speaker 3: my work schedule and you know all of that. But anyway,
Speaker 3: long story short, we didn't kill anything at the old
Speaker 3: Woods that I used to hunt him. But we went
Speaker 3: with my brother the next morning. My boys shot two squirrels.
Speaker 3: Oh fucking got him. He nailed it. Uh, he outshot me.
Speaker 3: Actually I only got one that day. He got too,
Speaker 3: and I was like, he's like, yeah, I got more.
Speaker 3: I'm like, yo, I want you to flex on me
Speaker 3: on this type of shit. You have no idea like, Yo, brag,
Speaker 3: brag your fucking ass off kid. Yes, Yo, super proud
Speaker 3: Papa moment house.
Speaker 2: How was that squirrel?
Speaker 3: Well, I was saying, bro, we cooked it down into
Speaker 3: a squirrel stew that night. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 3: my boy was able to kill, clean and cook. He
Speaker 3: cooked this. My brother showed them how to do it.
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong. My brother's a way better cook
Speaker 3: than I am. That's just a fact. And they cooked
Speaker 3: down this squirrel and sausage stew. Boy, that was a
Speaker 3: jam up meal. I mean you you, I can't. You
Speaker 3: cannot buy the look on that child's face. You cannot
Speaker 3: replicate that. You can't recreate that. That was pure and
Speaker 3: that was proper. That is wholesome, that is in keeping
Speaker 3: with the old ways, like as eat down, historical, as
Speaker 3: as manly as you want to go, whatever direction you
Speaker 3: want to go. That moment, bro, I wouldn't trade that
Speaker 3: moment for the fucking world.
Speaker 2: Oh dude, eating the meat that you killed, that's like
Speaker 2: as close to nature as you can get.
Speaker 3: And it was delicious at that, Like it was really good.
Speaker 2: How did you feel? Was that his first time killing something?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: How did he feel whenever he actually killed it? Like
Speaker 2: was he sad or was he stoked about it?
Speaker 3: I mean he was about, like me neutral as far
Speaker 3: as like the ending of a life. It's an animal,
Speaker 3: like fuck it, you know, But as far as that goes,
Speaker 3: like it was he felt good. It wasn't like he
Speaker 3: was like super proud and like blood hungry by any means.
Speaker 3: Like you know, he's definitely not a psycho. But he
Speaker 3: also wasn't like sad at the animal's death, because I've
Speaker 3: talked to him from a very early age that when
Speaker 3: we harvest an animal, we are not just killing it
Speaker 3: for the sake of killing it, like you see all
Speaker 3: these tweety birds in the trees. We're just out here
Speaker 3: to kill shit that that's that's wrong, that's incorrect. That
Speaker 3: is disrespectful to nature. We live on this planet, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. It's bad form, so absolutely, and
Speaker 3: I have always taught from day one that that is
Speaker 3: not how we operate. If we kill it, we're eating it,
Speaker 3: like we don't kill it unless it is for that purpose,
Speaker 3: unless like a snake danger, these types of you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. But so when he did this, he
Speaker 3: knew full well, like, Yo, we're eating this like this
Speaker 3: is dinner tonight, like it's a whole thing. And he
Speaker 3: knew that if he only killed one, Yo, we're building
Speaker 3: a fucking campfire and you're roasting on a stick, like
Speaker 3: even if we can't make a whole stew out of it,
Speaker 3: like you are absolutely eating this. And that was like
Speaker 3: the whole point. It was great, absolutely great.
Speaker 2: That is awesome, dude. I look forward to times like that.
Speaker 2: My son's only two, he's just a little babe. But hopefully,
Speaker 2: you know, you know, whenever you know, five, six, seven,
Speaker 2: eight years down the line, whatever, whenever he's old enough, dude,
Speaker 2: I look forward to that. I'm actually envious of that,
Speaker 2: that you got to have a moment like that, my
Speaker 2: son's just a little too small for all that shit
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 3: But well it sounds all eleven, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I waited a good bit to bring him for a
Speaker 3: couple of reasons. One the maturity aspect being able to
Speaker 3: be quiet in the woods like and especially for an
Speaker 3: ady d boy like I get it, that's difficult, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. So you have to wait for
Speaker 3: them to be like mature enough, be able to hold
Speaker 3: the weapon and fire it correctly. And you don't want
Speaker 3: to give them a little, a little you know, give
Speaker 3: you want to give them a proper gun. So it's
Speaker 3: doesn't order of precedence to it. And honestly, I've waited
Speaker 3: this long because I've been working so much that I've
Speaker 3: never had the time or the place to bring him.
Speaker 3: For years, I've been wanting to do this.
Speaker 2: I mean, you can take a squirrel out with a
Speaker 2: BB gun though, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, for sure, Like I mean we did
Speaker 3: that in the woods behind my house of pellet guns
Speaker 3: for forever. But it's it's not the same. It's just
Speaker 3: it's not the same, you know. And plus he does
Speaker 3: competition shooting for four h like real shit, So we're
Speaker 3: going to be doing it. Yeah, we're gonna do it.
Speaker 3: We're gonna do it. So I went and got him
Speaker 3: a little twenty gauge, a youth model pump action twenty gauge.
Speaker 3: It's a whole fucking thing. He could not stop racking it.
Speaker 3: When we got home with it. I'm like, I get it,
Speaker 3: I get it. It was unloaded. It's unloaded, everybody. I'm
Speaker 3: also a shooting safety coach for It's like, trust me,
Speaker 3: all weapons safety rules are being followed at all times.
Speaker 3: But anyway, yeah, great weekend. But anyway, anyway, all of
Speaker 3: that leading too today, I got all three of my babies.
Speaker 3: We're chilling out the house, me working from home now
Speaker 3: and they're off of school, free day of just dad time. Right,
Speaker 3: So as I'm cleaning and I'm doing things, we got
Speaker 3: onto Disney and they were curious about the movie Atlantis,
Speaker 3: and they saw one.
Speaker 2: Of the best Disney movies of all time.
Speaker 3: You'll know what that's a true statement. That is, you
Speaker 3: look at the writing, you look at the art, you
Speaker 3: look at the plotline, you look at the double crossing.
Speaker 3: Like Disney was really doing some amazing work at one
Speaker 3: point and the NINETI killed all of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the nineties was a different era, bro, because I
Speaker 2: think that came out in probably ninety four, ninety five
Speaker 2: something like that, right.
Speaker 3: I want to say it was early two thousands. Really,
Speaker 3: why do I feel like that? No, maybe ninety nine.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm honestly not one hundred percent. Yeare
Speaker 3: but any of the way. So we're watching the movie.
Speaker 2: Jane third, two thousand and one. How about that?
Speaker 3: Two thousand and one? Okay, damn? So all right, my
Speaker 3: kids are asking me about Atlantis being real is because
Speaker 3: they know that I do history and like that's the
Speaker 3: thing that I'm a geek about. So they're asking me
Speaker 3: what kind of reality is there behind Atlantis? And I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: there are some, but not a lot can be verified
Speaker 3: because of these things and these things and whatever. But
Speaker 3: that kind of got me thinking because recently I heard
Speaker 3: something about Atlantis and these arians and all of these things,
Speaker 3: and you know what, as I was trying to explain
Speaker 3: these things to them, I accidentally stumbled upon one article
Speaker 3: that led to another article that led to a lot
Speaker 3: more things, And I gotta say it led me to
Speaker 3: really question, is the theory of Atlantis racist? Like inherently
Speaker 3: from its inception.
Speaker 2: I just I don't know how that even connects to
Speaker 2: being a racist thing.
Speaker 3: I gotta I'm gonna break it down for you here today, sir,
Speaker 3: because I'm not gonna lie the original intent. I never
Speaker 3: have actually looked at Plato's words about Atlantis. I've read excerpts,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, from the Internet, from an
Speaker 3: article or something. The entire book is a thirty four
Speaker 3: minute audio book. They have multiple YouTube videos of people
Speaker 3: reading it verbatim, and it's the same thing about much
Speaker 3: that's ever been said about it.
Speaker 2: About Plato's version of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, like with that being said, it led me
Speaker 3: down a wild rabbit hole. And all right, so I
Speaker 3: did a little light digging and I found this name
Speaker 3: constantly popping up, a former US congressman named Ignacious Loyola Donnelly, Jonathan,
Speaker 3: have you ever heard of Ignacious down.
Speaker 2: I want to say that I have.
Speaker 3: Actually you probably have, because there's been a number of
Speaker 3: people that have referenced him, right, Graham Hancock, Billy Carson,
Speaker 3: Ancient Aliens, pretty much anything that the History Channel or
Speaker 3: Discovery has put out all referenced this dude and his work.
Speaker 3: This dude is seen as quote unquote the father of
Speaker 3: modern Atlantean hunting. That's his basically his moniker.
Speaker 2: Okay, so, and and he got the information from Plato.
Speaker 2: How does that work?
Speaker 3: Well, we're going to talk about that, sir, We are
Speaker 3: going to talk about it. But it's like, so, who
Speaker 3: is this dude? Who is this ignacious dude? Also his
Speaker 3: name is Ignacious Loyola, Donnelly, Saint Ignacius of Loyola is
Speaker 3: the dude that I'm always referencing with the three chords
Speaker 3: all strom at the same time to me in the
Speaker 3: Holy Trnity, his father left the Catholic Church. He named
Speaker 3: his son Ignacious Loyola Donnelly. That it's wild. It's funny. Uh,
Speaker 3: it's funny. We're gonna talk about it. Okay. So who
Speaker 3: is this dude and what is his background? And how
Speaker 3: did a dude in the late eighteen hundreds come by
Speaker 3: all of this information? And why do the Nazis use
Speaker 3: him as a source, and why do the Nwebian Nation
Speaker 3: of Mores also agree with the things he says? So
Speaker 3: it is it's spiraled, Jonathan and fucking spiral. We got
Speaker 3: supremacists on either side of the argument. Both referencing this
Speaker 3: dude as like a knowwher of things. So like, where
Speaker 3: are we going here? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Well, here's my thing. I think that there are a
Speaker 2: lot of spiritually historic people who try and document certain things,
Speaker 2: certain stories about Atlantis, maybe certain characters that are within Atlantis.
Speaker 2: And you'll see that within people who act like they're
Speaker 2: a little bit more spiritual than everybody else, and they
Speaker 2: always have more facts on Atlantis than anybody's ever written down.
Speaker 2: It's one of those things to where, uh, what are they called,
Speaker 2: like the fake spiritual people? We talked about them before, right,
Speaker 2: Charlatan's Charlatans. Yes, I think that you'll have like a
Speaker 2: lot of Charlatans bringing up things like Atlantis, not saying
Speaker 2: that Atlantis existed or it doesn't or it didn't. I
Speaker 2: don't know. I mean as I just looked it up,
Speaker 2: and the accepted if Atlantis really did exist, the accepted
Speaker 2: time when it did existed or did exist was ninety
Speaker 2: four hundred BC. So you're talking about literally like eleven
Speaker 2: thousand fucking years ago, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: More than yes, all of that's gonna be brought up
Speaker 3: for sure. The source of that, I found said maybe
Speaker 3: ninety six hundred, but like somewhere in inside of ten
Speaker 3: thousand BC, Like, so, who's.
Speaker 2: Gonna fact check these people? You know what I'm saying? Like,
Speaker 2: that's why it's easy to start just saying shit.
Speaker 3: Like jumping the gun. You are chumping like, way to
Speaker 3: the end, dude, But hold on, hold on, We're gonna
Speaker 3: get there, I promise. So all that being said, Atlantis
Speaker 3: has been something that has been talked for a very,
Speaker 3: very long time. So when the zude Ignacious Donnelley wrote
Speaker 3: this book, okay talking about Atlantis and all of these things,
Speaker 3: this is kind of why it went the direction that
Speaker 3: it did. But that's not the only book that he wrote.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about it. Here's a video real
Speaker 3: quick to kind of talk about Ignacious. This is a
Speaker 3: Hunte films. If you'll want to check them out on YouTube.
Speaker 3: I'll give him a shout out. I disagree with a
Speaker 3: lot of his political and socioeconomic viewpoints, but I also
Speaker 3: find that his historical content is pretty relevant and pretty
Speaker 3: spot on, So especially when it comes to this guy,
Speaker 3: let's hear what he says about ignacious.
Speaker 4: Donnelly on December twentieth, eighteen, sixty eight, Ignacious Donnelly wrote
Speaker 4: in his diary that.
Speaker 5: I'm not one of those who believes the politics is
Speaker 5: a mere base struggle for place and plunder, or the
Speaker 5: profoundest rascality and deepest purse. Always when it is so
Speaker 5: to have lived as to make someone better for your having.
Speaker 4: Lived, pretty incredible, right, That's the sort of private sincerity
Speaker 4: can only dream of having.
Speaker 6: A politician.
Speaker 4: Donallly wrote that near the end of his three term
Speaker 4: tenure in the US House of Representatives, and he was
Speaker 4: nothing if not sincere.
Speaker 6: But what a.
Speaker 4: Politics have to do with Atlantis? Well, everything, it turns out.
Speaker 4: Donnelly was born in Philadelphia in eighteen thirty one to
Speaker 4: an Irish immigrant family. His father had abandoned Catholicism, so
Speaker 4: Ignatius was educated in a public school. When he was
Speaker 4: a teenager, he wrote poetry prolifically and kept a notebook
Speaker 4: by his bed to jot down ideas that came to
Speaker 4: him in his dreams. Donelly's youth was a bad time
Speaker 4: to be Irish in America, especially in big cities of
Speaker 4: the East. He faced discrimination from his nativist to Anglo neighbors,
Speaker 4: many of whom clung to the anti immigrant, anti Catholic
Speaker 4: sentiments of the Whig Party, so as Donnelly gravitated toward politics,
Speaker 4: he found natural allies in the Democrats.
Speaker 6: He entered public life on July.
Speaker 4: Fourth, eighteen fifty five, when he gave a speech to
Speaker 4: the Democratic Party County Assembly in Philadelphia. He blasted the
Speaker 4: Whigs and the hard line know nothings and argued that
Speaker 4: immigrants would revitalize America. The speech was a huge success.
Speaker 4: The young man soon gained the attention of John C. Breckinridge,
Speaker 4: a prominent Southern Democrat and future Vice President of the
Speaker 4: United States. The two men briefly corresponded, and Donnelly was starstruck.
Speaker 4: He was all set to be a rising star in
Speaker 4: the Democratic Party, but, in an indication of both Donnelly's
Speaker 4: erratic personality and the seismic political shifts of pre war America,
Speaker 4: two years later, young Ignatius would be.
Speaker 6: A die in the wool Republican.
Speaker 4: In the meantime, though, he would get married and, like
Speaker 4: many ambitious nineteenth century Americans, moved to the frontier. Donnelly
Speaker 4: ended up on Sioux Land in Minnesota and the one
Speaker 4: horse town of Nininger City. He engaged in Land speculation
Speaker 4: for a few years until he was ruined by the
Speaker 4: financial collapse of the Panic.
Speaker 6: Of eighteen fifty seven.
Speaker 4: Donnelly had helped build this agrarian community up from almost nothing,
Speaker 4: but this sudden and unfortunate economic downturn forced most of
Speaker 4: his clients in Nininger to pull up stakes and limp
Speaker 4: back east.
Speaker 6: The whole experience was incredibly disheartening.
Speaker 4: Not only had attempted to create on the plains of
Speaker 4: Minnesota the ideal Western society where farmers and small businessmen
Speaker 4: could become prosperous simply because of the fruit of their labors,
Speaker 4: unconstrained by meddlesome Eastern capital. He came to believe that
Speaker 4: free labor was the key to creating the egalitarian utopia
Speaker 4: that was promised by the Founders, and that revelation drove
Speaker 4: him into the welcoming arms of the abolitionist movement. In
Speaker 4: eighteen fifty nine, Donnelly wrote, laboring men of the old world,
Speaker 4: you are, many of you, at the foot of the
Speaker 4: latter which all mankind are compelled to climb.
Speaker 5: You are clambering the wrongs which the overthrow of the
Speaker 5: old world's aristocratic notions has left open to you which
Speaker 5: party will help you up, That which stands committed to
Speaker 5: the South at slavery, that which would produce and has
Speaker 5: reduced labor to the degradation of bondage, which presents it
Speaker 5: no destiny but shame and humidiation. Or that party which,
Speaker 5: with no dark record in the past, with no principle,
Speaker 5: but those which the Declaration of Independence as set forth
Speaker 5: with equality, liberty, humanity for all men, strives by doing
Speaker 5: the anaultable justice to the black to advance the dignity
Speaker 5: and pro both the welfare of the white race.
Speaker 4: That year, Donnelly ran for the lieutenant governorship of Minnesota
Speaker 4: alongside Alexander Ramsay, who had been the territorial governor before statehood.
Speaker 4: Buoyed by anti slavery sentiment, the pair won in a landslide,
Speaker 4: presiding over the state Senate. Donnelly quickly gained a reputation
Speaker 4: as a fiery orator and a passionate advocate for the
Speaker 4: rights of the common man. He advocated for financial assistance
Speaker 4: for the farmers who were affected by the Panic of
Speaker 4: fifty seven, and during the presidential election of eighteen sixty
Speaker 4: he tirelessly campaigned for Abraham Lincoln Donnelly was quickly making
Speaker 4: his mark, to the point where Ramsey started seeing his
Speaker 4: second in command as a potential rival for the governorship.
Speaker 4: So in eighteen sixty two, he encouraged Donnelly to run
Speaker 4: for Congress, and to run as a Republican in the
Speaker 4: North during the Civil War, basically meant to a running unopposed.
Speaker 4: That same year, Minnesota was racked by violence during the
Speaker 4: Dakota War, a vicious conflict between white settlers and the
Speaker 4: Sioux Nation. Companied troops out on campaign during that conflict. However,
Speaker 4: the fact that he never saw any actual combat was
Speaker 4: quietly left out of his official dispatches. Nonetheless, it increased
Speaker 4: his popularity immensely among his constituents. The election one, Donnelly
Speaker 4: moved to Washington to represent his state.
Speaker 6: Throughout most of his.
Speaker 4: Tenure in Congress, he staunchly backed the party line. During
Speaker 4: the war, he supported Lincoln's every decision. With Lincoln dead
Speaker 4: and the rebellion crushed, he gravitated toward the radical Republican
Speaker 4: position of a harsh, punitive reconstruction. He also supported unconditional
Speaker 4: civil rights for blacks and was instrumental in creating the
Speaker 4: Freedman's Bureau, which assisted and protected newly freed slaves in
Speaker 4: the post war South. But as the years went by,
Speaker 4: Donnelly became increasingly disillusioned with his Republican colleagues. His time
Speaker 4: in the halls of federal power had only increased his
Speaker 4: anti elitist sentiments. At a time when the Party of
Speaker 4: Lincoln was climbing into bed with big business. Donnelly's break
Speaker 4: from the party raised the ire of another Western Republican,
Speaker 4: a lie Whu Washburn of Illinois, who accused the famously
Speaker 4: anti capitalist Donnelly of taking a cash bribe from a
Speaker 4: major railroad company, which was a total lie. The bribe
Speaker 4: wasn't cash, it was company stock. Ignacious vowed revenge and
Speaker 4: took to the floor of the sacred Chamber of the
Speaker 4: US House of Representatives to spew an hour long profanity
Speaker 4: laced rant against Washburn, which ended like this.
Speaker 5: If there be one character which, while blanched and spotted
Speaker 5: all over, yet raves and rants and black arts like
Speaker 5: a prostitute.
Speaker 2: If there be.
Speaker 5: One bold, bad, empty bellowing demagogue, it is the gentleman
Speaker 5: from Illinois.
Speaker 6: The speech backfired spectacularly.
Speaker 4: Donnelly's signature invective had served him well when he had
Speaker 4: directed it at Confederates and Democrats. Turning his vitriol on
Speaker 4: his own allies only served to alienate them, and the
Speaker 4: party didn't bother nominating him for reelection that year, so
Speaker 4: he ran as an independent instead and split the Republican
Speaker 4: vote between himself and the party's candidate, so a Democrat
Speaker 4: wiped the floor with them both. Donnelly would never again
Speaker 4: hold federal office. Though the Republican Party was done with Donnelly,
Speaker 4: Donnelly was not done with the Republican Party. Throughout the
Speaker 4: eighteen seventies, he tried again and again to regain political
Speaker 4: power in Minnesota, this time running on an explicitly populist
Speaker 4: independent platform.
Speaker 6: He enjoyed local.
Speaker 4: Popularity in his home of Dakota County and could always
Speaker 4: count on the support of the hearts gravel rural farmers
Speaker 4: in the southern part of the state, but it wasn't enough.
Speaker 4: Donnelly's particular vision of America was an agrarian utopia defined
Speaker 4: by small, insular communities with individual liberty cherished above all.
Speaker 4: The trouble was this vision was hopelessly out of date.
Speaker 4: Jackson and Jefferson were in the rearview, mirror their relevance
Speaker 4: and receiving fast. The future of populism would be Eugene
Speaker 4: Debs and Huey Long, And though Donnelly shared some ideological
Speaker 4: ground with both of those politicians, never really had much
Speaker 4: concrete policy to back his rhetoric up. Donnelly was naive,
Speaker 4: pure and simple. The twentieth century would be urban and global,
Speaker 4: an age of steel and concrete.
Speaker 6: It was inevitable.
Speaker 4: I think that Donallly came to realize this, at least
Speaker 4: on some level, after a particularly stinging political.
Speaker 6: Defeat in eighteen seventy eight.
Speaker 4: I think he knew that his utopia would never come about.
Speaker 4: I think he knew his dream was dead, and in
Speaker 4: his mind the only alternative was apocalypse. America had ceased
Speaker 4: to wear its prosperity with moderation, and now it would
Speaker 4: pay the price. In eighteen ninety one, a biographer described
Speaker 4: this period in Donnelly's life with suitably dystopian prose.
Speaker 5: He'd been driven out of public life by the corrupt
Speaker 5: power of money. His crops had been devoured by corporations
Speaker 5: and grasshoppers. He was covered with debts to the islands.
Speaker 5: Instead of taking to drink to drown his sorrows or
Speaker 5: going out and hang himself some men would have done
Speaker 5: under similar circumstances. He retired to the shades of Ninneker,
Speaker 5: and there in the midst of the arctic cold and
Speaker 5: deep snows of a very severe winter, with the sheriff
Speaker 5: for the constable banging every day or two at the
Speaker 5: door to serve a summons or an execution, he sat
Speaker 5: quietly down to recreate the history of man before the deluge.
Speaker 6: He wrote Atlantis.
Speaker 3: Okay, real quick, we only have a two more minutes
Speaker 3: left to go on this because his life's about to
Speaker 3: kind of wrap up. But as of right now, do
Speaker 3: we have a decent idea of who Ignatious Donnelly was?
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of a shithead.
Speaker 3: Well, he was a politician who was very passionate about
Speaker 3: what he believed in, right, and for a while there
Speaker 3: he was seen as a great dude and people loved
Speaker 3: him in DC. Eventually the money got to him and
Speaker 3: his attitude and his demeanor kind of turned his contemporaries
Speaker 3: against him. Okay, and so he kind of lost his
Speaker 3: own job and then fell destitute, so to speak. Every
Speaker 3: day there's another cop or a debt or deck collector
Speaker 3: looking for him for some reason or to collect something.
Speaker 3: So in that moment he sat down and wrote about atlantis. Okay,
Speaker 3: this is he wanted to recreate the world before the
Speaker 3: Great Flood, and this was this was his whole, his
Speaker 3: whole situation and why he did this. And again, this
Speaker 3: man is seen by many as the father of modern
Speaker 3: Atlantis hunting because of this work.
Speaker 2: So when allegedly did the Great Flood happen? I mean,
Speaker 2: I know it was like a long ass time ago,
Speaker 2: but is there a speculation about when exactly that happened?
Speaker 3: There is speculation, but I couldn't. I couldn't find it
Speaker 3: off top. You could search it. I one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: I know somebody's got some. But then it's like which flood, right,
Speaker 3: because then they say, like which ice age and all
Speaker 3: of these things. I believe the Great Flood was. It
Speaker 3: could have been hundreds of thousands of years ages for
Speaker 3: all I know. And people say the Earth's only ten
Speaker 3: thousand years old. I don't know.
Speaker 2: This guy named Bishop Usher, he computed that the Earth
Speaker 2: had been created in four thousand and four BC and
Speaker 2: that the flood occurred in twenty three point fifty BC.
Speaker 3: Well that's empirically wrong, and we're gonna talk.
Speaker 2: About why, right right. So yeah, there's a bunch of
Speaker 2: different narratives, Like so nobody really has it narrowed down
Speaker 2: as far as what I'm finding here.
Speaker 3: Nobody knows when, but everybody can guarantee that it happened,
Speaker 3: and there's way too much evidence for that. But anyway, anyway, Okay,
Speaker 3: so long story short, you're boy ignacious, he's he's feeling down,
Speaker 3: and he decides to write down what was the world
Speaker 3: before the flood, what was the utopia that he was
Speaker 3: longing for, and all of these things. Let's go.
Speaker 4: The Antidiluvian World was a gigantic hit, a nationwide bestseller,
Speaker 4: and Donelly's theories took America by storm. In eighteen eighty two.
Speaker 4: Atlantis was even the theme of Mardi Grass down here
Speaker 4: in New Orleans, so Donallly wrote more books. There was
Speaker 4: the sequel Ragnarok, which argued that Atlantean civilization had been
Speaker 4: destroyed by an immense comet twelve.
Speaker 6: Thousand years ago.
Speaker 4: There was the Great Cryptogram, one thousand page screen which
Speaker 4: set about to prove that Sir Francis Bacon was the
Speaker 4: real author of the plays of Shakespeare.
Speaker 3: And then yep, that all came from this guy too.
Speaker 4: A series of novels, all of which had some pretty
Speaker 4: heavy handed populist themes. Caesar's Column is a science fiction
Speaker 4: story set in the far future of nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 4: It's about a working class overthrow of a brutal capitalist oligarchy.
Speaker 4: It's probably Donnelly's best known work besides Atlantis, and he
Speaker 4: predicted it would be the Uncle Tom's Cabin of the
Speaker 4: Populist Revolution, but the revolution never came. And then there's
Speaker 4: Doctor Huguet, which, oh boy, that's a piece of work.
Speaker 6: It's basically racist freaky Friday.
Speaker 4: So the plot is a rich white Southerner switches bodies
Speaker 4: with a poor black Southerner.
Speaker 6: So the message is good.
Speaker 4: The message is, oh, well, you know, why can't we
Speaker 4: all just get along? But of course, being written in
Speaker 4: the eighteen nineties, it's horrifically tasteless might be the most
Speaker 4: generous way to describe it now. Starting in eighteen ninety two,
Speaker 4: the populist movement started gaining some serious steam in the
Speaker 4: United States for the first time, and Donnelly jumped at
Speaker 4: the chance to be a part of it. He campaigned
Speaker 4: for the populist presidential candidate that year, James Weaver. Weaver
Speaker 4: did well shockingly well for a third party candidate, snagging
Speaker 4: four Western states, but unsurprisingly did not take the White House.
Speaker 4: Soon after, Donnelly's wife of thirty years passed away, and
Speaker 4: he found comfort in the arms was twenty one year
Speaker 4: old secretary.
Speaker 3: As as you would do that, Okay.
Speaker 4: In nineteen hundred, the populists ran him on the vice
Speaker 4: presidential ticket. That July fourth, he gave a speech in
Speaker 4: Iowa to commemorate Independence Day. He was bumbling and slurring
Speaker 4: his words. He couldn't string sentences together or finish thoughts.
Speaker 4: The audience barely hear, much less understanding. Six months later
Speaker 4: he was dead.
Speaker 3: Okay, So, as far as our guy goes here, he
Speaker 3: wrote down this book. Okay, this is this book that
Speaker 3: pretty much has spawned into everything that has become what
Speaker 3: we now think of the pop cultural references of Atlantis. Okay,
Speaker 3: we're not talking about Plato or any of that at
Speaker 3: this time. We're talking about the modern adaptation of pretty
Speaker 3: much anything that you could think of about Atlantis having
Speaker 3: these rings or the way it would look. This guy
Speaker 3: pretty much wrote in a book, and yes, where it
Speaker 3: comes from from.
Speaker 2: Uh, I actually didn't know that. So how is it
Speaker 2: Lantis racist as a result of this? Is it because
Speaker 2: of this guy? Well, because you can, I don't know
Speaker 2: if you can. I don't know if you can say
Speaker 2: that Atlantis would be fully racist if it was by
Speaker 2: this guy, because it was mentioned way before this guy.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, yes, yes, but for some reason, this guy
Speaker 3: is the source that everybody goes to. This is the
Speaker 3: guy who's called the father of modern Atlantean hunters and
Speaker 3: all of that.
Speaker 2: There are like other people that also talk about it too,
Speaker 2: Like even within the Secret Teachings for All Ages by
Speaker 2: Manley P. Hall, he mentions Atlantis in there. There's like
Speaker 2: a whole chapter on Atlantis. Now, that was a book
Speaker 2: that was written in what like the sixties or seventies
Speaker 2: or something like that, so a.
Speaker 3: Little after days that by like eighty years right, right,
Speaker 3: So that's why you have to go look at the
Speaker 3: oldest sources, because the nineteen sixty that whole Manley P.
Speaker 3: Hall thing, there is a the nw Avian nation of
Speaker 3: Mores also wrote their literature about the you know, thirty
Speaker 3: three trillion years ago on the moon and all these things.
Speaker 3: In the sixties they wrote that. So it's like, and
Speaker 3: then you look at where they're all getting their shit from.
Speaker 3: Was all derived from HP. Lovecraft, and it's a whole thing.
Speaker 3: It's a whole thing. But this book itself written in
Speaker 3: the eighteen eighties. Like, dude, no one was talking about
Speaker 3: Atlantis in the eighteen hundreds, I mean, but apparently there were, Jonathan,
Speaker 3: because he You're right, he was not the first person
Speaker 3: to bring it up, and as a matter of fact,
Speaker 3: he wasn't even the first person of that millennia to
Speaker 3: do so. So let's go ahead and talk about our boy, Charles.
Speaker 3: It's Tim Brescier de Borborg.
Speaker 2: It'sien.
Speaker 3: I butchered that that pronunciation.
Speaker 2: Charles Etienne Brasseur de Borgborg.
Speaker 3: So your boy right here. Uh, let's go ahead and
Speaker 3: read a little bit about him. Let's also keep in
Speaker 3: mind he is a Catholic priest.
Speaker 2: Charles Etienne Brasseur de Borborg. He was born eighteen fourteen
Speaker 2: died eighteen seventy four. He was a noted French writer,
Speaker 2: an eth no grapher, a historian, archaeologist, and a Catholic priest.
Speaker 2: I love how they saved that one for last. He
Speaker 2: became a specialist in Mesoamerican studies, traveling extensively in the region.
Speaker 2: His writings, publications, and recovery of historical doc coumens contributed
Speaker 2: much to knowledge of the region's languages, writing, history, and culture,
Speaker 2: particularly those of the Maya and Aztec civilizations. However, his
Speaker 2: speculations concerning relationships between the ancient Maya and the lost
Speaker 2: continent of Atlantis inspired Ignatius Donnelly and encouraged the pseudoscience
Speaker 2: of Mayanism.
Speaker 3: Okay, So let's dig into this a little bit, right.
Speaker 3: So Ignacius was going off of what this dude said,
Speaker 3: but he was making reference that the Maya and the
Speaker 3: Aztecs were, as a matter of fact, the Atlanteans, if
Speaker 3: you will, Okay. And he traveled extensively to Central America,
Speaker 3: and he even decoded language. Let's read here travels and expeditions.
Speaker 2: From eighteen forty eight to eighteen sixty three, he traveled
Speaker 2: extensively as a missionary in many parts of Mexico and
Speaker 2: Central America. During these journeys, he gave great attention to
Speaker 2: meso American antiquities and became well versed in the then
Speaker 2: current theories and knowledge about the history of the region
Speaker 2: and the pre Columbian civilizations whose sites and monuments remained
Speaker 2: yet were little understood. Using information he had collected during
Speaker 2: his time spent traveling there, as well as that compiled
Speaker 2: by other scholars at the time, he published during eighteen
Speaker 2: fifty seven eighteen fifty nine A History of the Aztec Civilization,
Speaker 2: containing what was then known or speculated from about the
Speaker 2: speculated about the former kingdom, which had been conquered some
Speaker 2: three hundred years previously by the Spanish conquistadors in alliance
Speaker 2: with local enemies of the Aztecs. He also conducted research
Speaker 2: into the local languages and their trans transliteration into the
Speaker 2: Latin alphabet. Between eighteen sixty one and eighteen sixty four,
Speaker 2: he edited and published a collection of documents in the
Speaker 2: indigenous languages. In sixty four, he was an archaeologist of
Speaker 2: the French military expedition in Mexico, and his resulting works
Speaker 2: called Monuments.
Speaker 3: Ah it looks it, will say that all of his
Speaker 3: works are in French. It looks like English translations.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, if I'm going to try and translate,
Speaker 2: it looks like ancient Monuments of Mexico. Yes, sounds about right.
Speaker 2: Was published by the French government in eighteen sixty six.
Speaker 3: Okay, so this guy wasn't just about reading some old
Speaker 3: scrolls he found, No, dude, he made numerous expeditions to
Speaker 3: the sites. He was looking at the stone etchings themselves.
Speaker 3: He is how we even learned how to decipher the language. Okay. Now, granted,
Speaker 3: it's not like he found a Rosetta stone. And later
Speaker 3: we found more evidence to say that not everything that
Speaker 3: he wrote down was one hundred percent correctly translated, but
Speaker 3: he got damn close with like little to no information
Speaker 3: just on his own, which is pretty fucking incredible, right.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's pretty cool feat to go out and
Speaker 2: be that guy that discovers a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 3: Oh dude. In the eighteen hundreds, this is pre to
Speaker 3: during the American Civil War, homeboy was looking at iron temples.
Speaker 3: That's fucking sick.
Speaker 2: That's pre car in pre plane.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, he was taking boat rides to and from
Speaker 3: numerous times from France to Central America to do these expeditions.
Speaker 3: Like Homie wasn't just talking about it, he was walking,
Speaker 3: you know what I.
Speaker 2: Mean big time. So the speculations concerning Atlantis, you want
Speaker 2: to read that.
Speaker 3: One absolutely Brassuur, is.
Speaker 2: That how the French would say it? Possibly maybe we
Speaker 2: we you should say. Anyway, he began he began to
Speaker 2: write about Atlantis, and his publication called U grimer de
Speaker 2: la longe Kish.
Speaker 3: Long Story, Short Grammar and Language of that area of
Speaker 3: eighteen sixty two.
Speaker 2: Anyway, he wrote this thing in eighteen sixty two, in
Speaker 2: which he expressed his belief that the lost land described
Speaker 2: by Plato. Plato had existed with an advanced degree of
Speaker 2: civilization before the beginning of civilizations in Europe and Asia.
Speaker 2: He suggested that the origins of European and Persian words
Speaker 2: could be traced to indigenous languages of the Americas, and
Speaker 2: that the ancient cultures of the New and Old worlds
Speaker 2: had been in constant communication with one another. In eighteen
Speaker 2: sixty six, in that book The Ancient Monuments of Mexico.
Speaker 2: It was published with a text by Brassour accompanied by
Speaker 2: lavish illustrations by Jean Frederic Waldeck. Although Waldeck's depiction of
Speaker 2: the ruins at Pallan k.
Speaker 3: Palin K, Yeah, I think so were.
Speaker 2: Based on firsthand knowledge, his artistic reconstructions and embellishments implied
Speaker 2: a close relationship between Maya art and architecture and that
Speaker 2: of classical antiquity in Greece and Rome. This was subsequently
Speaker 2: demonstrated to be spurious, but not before Waldeck's art work
Speaker 2: had inspired speculations that about contact between new and and
Speaker 2: Old World civilizations, specifically via the Lost Continent of Atlantis.
Speaker 2: These speculations were reinforced by Brasaur by his own references
Speaker 2: to Plato's descriptions of the culture and society of Atlantis,
Speaker 2: which Brassor believed was continued by ancient Maya civilization in
Speaker 2: his book.
Speaker 3: Four Letters of Mexico.
Speaker 2: There We Go. In this publication, Brossor made extensive parallels
Speaker 2: between Maya and Egyptian pantheons and cosmologies, implying that they
Speaker 2: all had a common source on the Lost Continent of Atlantis.
Speaker 2: He developed these ideas further in his publication Something Something,
Speaker 2: which represents a History of Atlantis, based on his interpretation
Speaker 2: of Maya myths. His writings inspired Augustus le Plongion and
Speaker 2: also Ignacious Donnelly, whose book Atlantis the Anteduluvian World contains
Speaker 2: numerous references to Bressor's scholarship. However, an academic wrote in
Speaker 2: eighteen seventy five that not a single contemporary scil accepted
Speaker 2: Brossaur's theories about Atlantis. The combination of Brossur's interest in
Speaker 2: spiritualism and these speculations about relations between the ancient Maya
Speaker 2: and Atlantis provided the basis for Mayanism.
Speaker 3: Now keep in mind, homeboy went on expeditions to it, right,
Speaker 3: And like I said this, he was a Catholic priest
Speaker 3: and he was going over here and he was finding
Speaker 3: these things. I thought that was fascinating. So here's another
Speaker 3: little article that I read. This one is from Qcurtis
Speaker 3: dot com Quintus Curtius dot com. I'm sure that means
Speaker 3: something great. It says fortress of the mind. But this
Speaker 3: I found to be another good look at where he
Speaker 3: came from and why he was interested in these things.
Speaker 3: And it's not like he was out there trying to
Speaker 3: prove anything superior about the white race. As a matter
Speaker 3: of fact, he was saying that Native Americans and Mesoamericans
Speaker 3: were the closest to Atlanta Tea in blood, culture and language.
Speaker 3: So if anything, he was saying that they were of
Speaker 3: a higher rung than the white man. But what would
Speaker 3: be his basis for this right, let's read.
Speaker 2: This looks like a lot of words that I'm going
Speaker 2: to Butcher, I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm just
Speaker 2: laying that out right out front. But I'll try my best.
Speaker 2: We had previously discussed the career and work of Frey
Speaker 2: Bernardino di Sahagun Argun. Another major pioneer in the study
Speaker 2: of early Mexican antiquities was the intense French abbey Charles
Speaker 2: etn Brassor de Borborg. Holy shit, what a name he
Speaker 2: remains in He remains another name nearly lost to history.
Speaker 2: But a good case can be made that without his
Speaker 2: work we would know far less than we do about
Speaker 2: the culture of old Mexico and Guatemala. Like his role
Speaker 2: model and idol Chempaalion the anyway, his guy. His imagination
Speaker 2: was fired at an early age by stories of foreign travel,
Speaker 2: exotic languages, and decaying civilizations. Growing up near Dunkirk, France,
Speaker 2: he soon found it too confining for his personality or tastes.
Speaker 2: He would later say that he chose to study Mesoamerica
Speaker 2: after reading an article in the Journal des Savants on
Speaker 2: Palanque culture of Mexico. For a boy without family connections.
Speaker 2: The only realistic way to travel and live abroad was
Speaker 2: to join the Catholic clergy, which he did in eighteen
Speaker 2: forty four. Soon he was off to Quebec, but the
Speaker 2: brutal winners there quickly cooled his passion for the New World.
Speaker 2: He preferred to be in Mexico. Who wouldn't hurt? Right,
Speaker 2: Who fucking wouldn't, dude, And by eighteen forty seven he's
Speaker 2: got he got his wish, serving in the French litigation
Speaker 2: in Mexico and later as an ordinary priest in two
Speaker 2: small towns in Guatemala.
Speaker 3: I mean, look at this stonework, dude.
Speaker 2: It's pretty badass, dude.
Speaker 3: And if you are just listening and you would like
Speaker 3: to see because I have a good number of visual
Speaker 3: aids and references on this one, if you would like
Speaker 3: to see them, Jonathan, tell them where they can go,
Speaker 3: because I know they're tired of these commercials.
Speaker 2: They can go to Patreon dot com slash cultive Conspiracy
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Speaker 2: be able to support us and to keep this show
Speaker 2: rolling on literally every day, which shout out to the
Speaker 2: cosmic Peach and to Josh Monday, our weekend warriors that
Speaker 2: are holding it down on Saturday and Sunday, so that
Speaker 2: literally we have a show every single day of the week.
Speaker 2: There's never going to be another day where you have
Speaker 2: to go without a Cult of Conspiracy show for the
Speaker 2: rest of your life. Like it's It's set in stone
Speaker 2: a lot like this stone figure up here. But if
Speaker 2: you want to be able to see the video, you
Speaker 2: want to be able to see all the all the
Speaker 2: articles that we read and all the pictures that we show.
Speaker 2: All of our guest faces are beautiful faces as well,
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Speaker 2: be able to join us every Tuesday night at nine
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Speaker 2: are always a banger. And these people are absolute family members.
Speaker 2: Shout out to the Cult members who join us every
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Speaker 3: Open to here absolutely and listen, y'all. We know, we
Speaker 3: know the commercials are ridiculous. We get it, okay, And
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Speaker 3: sort of premium account. When I listen to music on
Speaker 3: Spotify or whatever, I got to click through the commercials too.
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Speaker 3: and truly look what else you got going on Tuesday
Speaker 3: night at nine o'clock Central.
Speaker 2: There's a reason why we do it Tuesday nights because
Speaker 2: that ain't shit going on on Tuesday.
Speaker 3: Nights except for that cult member family gathering dude, And
Speaker 3: it's growing. We love it. Everybody gets their two cents
Speaker 3: thrown in, everybody talks a little shit. We have a blast,
Speaker 3: we really do, and Honestly, this is how we want
Speaker 3: to be able to reach out and let our listeners,
Speaker 3: our cult members, whatever you want to call it. We
Speaker 3: know y'all are family. Okay, we want y'all's voices to
Speaker 3: be heard too, So come on that life. You can
Speaker 3: unmute yourself. You have a random theory you heard about
Speaker 3: and you want to kind of shoot the shit about
Speaker 3: for a minute with us, with the other cult members.
Speaker 3: Come on with it, bro, let's go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have the absolute chance to be that man
Speaker 2: in the chair. So if you want to be the
Speaker 2: man in the chair like ned to Spider Man, I mean,
Speaker 2: you want to go all the way in, we're all
Speaker 2: kind of ned to the Spider Man. That is the
Speaker 2: conspiracy web of everything. So see how I did that,
Speaker 2: the conspiracy web Spider Man. It's beautiful how it just flows.
Speaker 2: But anyway, yeah, it's a great way to be able
Speaker 2: to support the show, and we appreciate all of you
Speaker 2: that already have so anyway, so let's get back over
Speaker 2: to this article you want me to start with. Even yeah,
Speaker 2: even with little money, he was able to indulge his
Speaker 2: intellectual passions. He chanced upon a keish is it keish
Speaker 2: i don't know looks like Keish anyway, He chanced upon
Speaker 2: a Keish Spanish dictionary during one of his travels, and
Speaker 2: in the library of the College of San Gregorio in Mexico,
Speaker 2: he was able to locate a previously lost Najutul manuscript,
Speaker 2: which is now known as the Chima La pulp Baha.
Speaker 3: Chimal Pulpoca Codex.
Speaker 2: There you go. By this time he was fluent in
Speaker 2: the Mayan language and was able to translate the Mayan
Speaker 2: sacred scriptures into French. He was also later He would
Speaker 2: also later discover another precious manuscript known as the Memorial
Speaker 2: de Solola, a lost work written in the fuck me
Speaker 2: these words cacchiquel cacchicol language by Francisco Hernandez Arana Jajila
Speaker 2: in fifteen seventy one. And these were all significant discoveries,
Speaker 2: any of which might have earned him lasting fame in
Speaker 2: the annals of Mexican antiquities, but Brassour would press on.
Speaker 2: One of his most impressive feats was to finance personally
Speaker 2: an actual performance of an old Mayan stage play when
Speaker 2: he heard that the Mayans of the town of Rabinal
Speaker 2: Rabbinol had still preserved the knowledge of how to stage
Speaker 2: one of their traditional dramas. He found a way to
Speaker 2: finance the construction of the original costumes and set designs,
Speaker 2: and he then had the natives perform the drama. He
Speaker 2: would later say, after mass, the natives built a stage
Speaker 2: under the arches of the churchyard, which very soon was
Speaker 2: filled with quite a multitude. A chair was prepared for
Speaker 2: me on the platform to watch the performance.
Speaker 3: He was French. That would have been like f zims
Speaker 3: Zanita's bitestisi and uches as a chit hut. I'm just
Speaker 3: saying I thought about that as you were saying, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: that was a good British I was like, oh wait, yeah,
Speaker 3: our boy Baubois is fucking French.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's hard. I can't do a French
Speaker 2: get it.
Speaker 3: My French accent is shit. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm not actually from Louisiana. I just lived there for
Speaker 2: a long time.
Speaker 3: So yeah, kajun French is not French. That's more like French.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It's that lady, some French Fries. Yeah, but with but
Speaker 2: without doubt. His greatest discovery was to unearth in eighteen
Speaker 2: sixty two one of the lost keys of Mexican ethno
Speaker 2: ethnography Frey Diego DeLanda's monumental.
Speaker 3: Big Word Big Words meaning it's a huge work of
Speaker 3: art about the Yucatan Peninsula.
Speaker 2: Relation de las Cosas de Yucatan his wellgo. This work,
Speaker 2: a fascinating collection of first hand observations in researches by
Speaker 2: one of the more controversial figures of early New Spain.
Speaker 2: Was only an abridge version of the original, but there
Speaker 2: was still enough to make the discovery a revolutionary advance
Speaker 2: in the study of Mayan hieroglyphs. Very little was known
Speaker 2: about the Mayan glyphs at the time. In the book
Speaker 2: at least gave basic information about the Mayan calendar, holidays, religion,
Speaker 2: and other cultural matters. It was not a Rosetta stone,
Speaker 2: but it was at least a place from which work
Speaker 2: could begin.
Speaker 3: So, I mean, legit, your boy was on it.
Speaker 2: I mean he wasn't full of shit. He was absolutely
Speaker 2: like a you know, a fucking discoverer of shit.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and all right, we only got like three on progress.
Speaker 3: Now I'll explained not all of his claims are correct,
Speaker 3: but we'll get there.
Speaker 2: Like any great pioneer moving through lands where none have
Speaker 2: trod before, he made a fair share of errors, letting
Speaker 2: his imagination get the better of him. The credulous Abby
Speaker 2: de Borg di Borborg connections between the Mayans and ancient
Speaker 2: Egyptians where none existed. But these flights of fancy were
Speaker 2: forgivable mistakes, and a man passionately devoted to his subject,
Speaker 2: he would redeem himself. In eighteen sixty six, however, when
Speaker 2: he discovered a precious Mayan codex now known as the
Speaker 2: Troano Codex while on a visit to Madrid. He had
Speaker 2: heard about a Mesoamerican artifact that had been purchased by
Speaker 2: a professor named Juan de trou E or Tolano, these
Speaker 2: people with long names. Examining it, he realized that at
Speaker 2: once that it was almost unique. Only three Mayan codises
Speaker 2: have survived. But Debrassor was not able to read the codex.
Speaker 2: He entirely mistook its contents, seeing it seeing in it
Speaker 2: gods and a record of natural phenomena that were not there.
Speaker 2: But here at least is an appreciation for the culture
Speaker 2: and a willingness to begin the laborious task of unlocking
Speaker 2: its secrets. R's record is, on balance, entirely positive. He
Speaker 2: devoted his life to the interests that were that was
Speaker 2: passionately devoted to, or that he was passionately devoted to
Speaker 2: and never lost sight of what he believed his life's
Speaker 2: his life's purpose was. He was willing to endure poverty, hardship,
Speaker 2: and ridicule to bring an entirely unknown pass to light.
Speaker 2: If he occasionally stumbled over his own excitement, we must
Speaker 2: smile favorably and see these sins as the forgivable consequences
Speaker 2: of isolation and the lack of predecessors in this field.
Speaker 2: His work would stand as a signpost pointing the way
Speaker 2: for the generations of linguists and ethnographers that would come
Speaker 2: after him. Sometimes imagination and imagination, enthusiasm, and a daring
Speaker 2: count for a great deal in scholarship.
Speaker 3: Absolutely agree. Now, I'm gonna be completely honest with you, dude.
Speaker 3: I believe personally that our boy Charles, your boy Chuck,
Speaker 3: should be actually named in history as the father of
Speaker 3: modern Atlantean hunting. And by modern I mean like of
Speaker 3: our common era modern quote unquote, because according to the sources,
Speaker 3: Atlantis was nine thousand actually accounting for the two ad
Speaker 3: here over ten thousand years ago. So as far as
Speaker 3: that goes, this guy, as far as our modern era
Speaker 3: is concerned, should actually be the father of it. Not
Speaker 3: to mention he was a priest, so they did in
Speaker 3: fact call him father. But that's neither here nor there. Well,
Speaker 3: and I.
Speaker 2: Will say this too, as far as Atlantis goes, I
Speaker 2: understand there's a lot of speculation, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: stories that are connected with it. But dude, I mean,
Speaker 2: we did an episode on the Reshot structure or rich
Speaker 2: Ad or Reshot or whatever that's out in Africa, and
Speaker 2: it is exactly the way that played to described it.
Speaker 2: So that leads you to wonder, It's like, if that
Speaker 2: actually is Atlantis, how did he? First of all, how
Speaker 2: did he have knowledge of something that looks exactly like that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess the dead clock is right twice
Speaker 2: a day, but eventually like that's that's like slim to
Speaker 2: none chances at describing something that nobody's ever seen before,
Speaker 2: at least nobody I mean from North America.
Speaker 3: You mean, oh, novo hold Charles wasn't describing the rings
Speaker 3: like that. He found these ancient Mayan temples and Aztec temples,
Speaker 3: He saw the pyramids, he was able to read the hieroglyphs.
Speaker 3: He saw the Egyptians are using hieroglyphs. These people use hieroglyphs,
Speaker 3: are both doing pyramids, they both do sacrifices. So he
Speaker 3: found in his own way connections to Egypt to Mesoamerica. Therefore,
Speaker 3: he determined that Atlantis was either connection or at least
Speaker 3: a spawned point that both of those cultures derived from.
Speaker 3: And I mean he was the first of our modern
Speaker 3: era to boast that claim. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you, dude. So people's all throughout human
Speaker 2: history there's been so much documentation of sacrifice. Right now,
Speaker 2: I think about this all the time, like the idea
Speaker 2: of sacrifice, Like how exactly does that work? You know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like, I get it. You kill somebody,
Speaker 2: you say that it's a fir a sacrifice for God,
Speaker 2: But how does it actually work? Like in the metaphysical realm?
Speaker 2: You know, scientifically, I know, and maybe it's not a
Speaker 2: scientific thing, but like.
Speaker 3: That's the thing you're put in science where it doesn't
Speaker 3: go br right.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, like it must have worked
Speaker 2: or else why would people carry on the tradition of
Speaker 2: doing it? Not that you know sacrifice is a tradition,
Speaker 2: but people have carried it on through their traditions.
Speaker 3: You know, I believe that if you knock on the door,
Speaker 3: so to speak, something is trying to answer. I've said
Speaker 3: that before. It seem like a Wuiji board, like obviously
Speaker 3: they work, otherwise people wouldn't still play with them. And
Speaker 3: it's like, well, as far as that goes on the
Speaker 3: side of good and evil, one side is clamoring to
Speaker 3: get to you and the other side is waiting for
Speaker 3: you to approach them. So it makes sense to me
Speaker 3: whenever you would do a thing, an incantation, a spell,
Speaker 3: a sacrifice, a ritual, and something in the physical world
Speaker 3: happens for you, that makes sense to me.
Speaker 2: It's just weird to think about, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: Like how no, I know, No, I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: it doesn't work, Like yeah, I mean, I dude, I
Speaker 2: play with my tarot cards every day. I know that
Speaker 2: there's something extra going on. But like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: just weird to think sacrifice, like who who would have
Speaker 2: ever put two and two together that you killed this
Speaker 2: man and all of a sudden you got these riches.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, like the first ever sacrifice
Speaker 2: that they finally were like, oh shit, this is some magic.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, Well.
Speaker 3: It depends on your source. Some people say that these
Speaker 3: people figured it out because they were just that attuned
Speaker 3: to the land and somehow they discovered that you sacrifice
Speaker 3: something's life and you get something in response to it.
Speaker 3: There are some that say that they were being taught
Speaker 3: this from the other side, right, and that's where a
Speaker 3: lot of this comes from, this ancient information, this this
Speaker 3: lost knowledge of how did they know this? And that
Speaker 3: there are so many people that say that that came
Speaker 3: from Atlantis. Essentially it was Atlantis is from the gods
Speaker 3: that came down and it was this and it just
Speaker 3: hold on, you know what I mean, Like, let's look
Speaker 3: at the actual historical precedence to what Atlantis was supposed
Speaker 3: to be. So as I'm saying this now, like I said, Charles,
Speaker 3: your boy was a stud as far as this was concerned. Again,
Speaker 3: he didn't rant and rave about Atlantis his entire career.
Speaker 3: He was interested in Mesoamerica. However, he was the first
Speaker 3: of this generational you know what I'm saying, of these
Speaker 3: last two thousand years, at least to say that there
Speaker 3: was a connection or at least mention Atlantis in an
Speaker 3: actual accepted study. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was no like genius. I mean they
Speaker 2: said that his imagination was kind of getting in the
Speaker 2: way there, which I mean, to be honest, dude, if
Speaker 2: you're out here discovering what could be like, you need
Speaker 2: an imagination for that. You know what I'm saying. I mean,
Speaker 2: what's gonna drive you to keep on searching.
Speaker 3: Keep in mind, he's also the first person ever to
Speaker 3: claim that a polar shift is what happened to wipe
Speaker 3: them out. And yes, a polar shift, meaning on a
Speaker 3: round globe model. Again, you can agree I disagree with that,
Speaker 3: but at least your boy Charles thought it was around
Speaker 3: in the eighteen hundreds. So people saying the certain books
Speaker 3: from the eighteen hundreds don't say that it's emphatically wrong.
Speaker 3: You can go further back and make that claim that's possible. Well,
Speaker 3: I'm eye eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: I mean, technically a polar shift would still work on
Speaker 2: a flat earth. It's just that there's only one pole,
Speaker 2: being the north.
Speaker 3: So then how would it shift from being north to north?
Speaker 2: I mean, no, I'm not saying that they're gonna swap
Speaker 2: but a pole, Dude, the pole is constantly the pole
Speaker 2: is constantly moving anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's it's kind of we weebling and wobbling
Speaker 3: a little bit. There's a little bit of a polar
Speaker 3: ship like an axis shift there. But he's talking about
Speaker 3: like we got hit by a comet and it actually
Speaker 3: they shifted the poles.
Speaker 2: Oh so the south pole became the North pole.
Speaker 3: Well maybe maybe it was a quarter turn, and our
Speaker 3: earth is spinning in a direction that it wasn't always
Speaker 3: supposed to. Like there's who knows, who knows. My point
Speaker 3: is he is the first person to make a claim
Speaker 3: that that type of situation happened, and he on a
Speaker 3: round earth model. He's also the one that claimed that
Speaker 3: that that's the thing that took out Atlantis, along with
Speaker 3: the lost continent of Mew, which maybe you've heard of,
Speaker 3: were separated and sank from continental shifting. Again, plate tectonics
Speaker 3: were understood from a broad spectrum in the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 3: But he thought that Native Americans had the closest connection
Speaker 3: to Atlantis in blood, language and culture. But again, there
Speaker 3: are certain things that he got wrong. Okay, he referenced
Speaker 3: that the quote unquote white gods that came from the
Speaker 3: sea that Cortes's men wrote about, and all of that,
Speaker 3: he saw some sort of evidence to back that claim.
Speaker 3: Even though that very very recently, like within the last
Speaker 3: couple of years, that whole story has been proven completely false.
Speaker 3: Nowhere in any of their literature do they have a
Speaker 3: story of two gods with white skin coming in from
Speaker 3: the sea that they should shower them with give and
Speaker 3: all these lavish goods. And that's the treatment that Cortez
Speaker 3: and his men received that has been proven completely incorrect.
Speaker 3: Are we talking I think Cortetes and his men were
Speaker 3: shot at when they first arrived.
Speaker 2: Are we talking arians here?
Speaker 3: We're going there, Okay, we're going there.
Speaker 2: So, because this is supposedly the story around why Hitler
Speaker 2: came up with the idea of the white master race.
Speaker 3: We got a little bit of ways to go before
Speaker 3: we get to the Nazis. But as of now, we're
Speaker 3: talking about boy Charles in the eighteen hundreds, right, and
Speaker 3: he is not he was not a racist. I can
Speaker 3: find no evidence to show that any of his thoughts,
Speaker 3: as far as Atlantis is concerned, took away from the
Speaker 3: culture of the Mayans. If anything, he was saying that
Speaker 3: the Mayans had to be the ones that built all
Speaker 3: this shit. But he also said that that meant that
Speaker 3: they had to have come from Atlantean descent. So there's
Speaker 3: a thing to say that maybe that means they were
Speaker 3: incapable on their own without Atlantean descent. Meanwhile, he was saying,
Speaker 3: these dudes clearly did this, so that one's kind of
Speaker 3: a weird wash as far as that's concerned. But your
Speaker 3: boy Charles was not trying to rant and rave about
Speaker 3: the superiority of the white race, that is for sure.
Speaker 2: So what we're saying is here is that the idea
Speaker 2: of Atlantis may and I know I'm not coming to
Speaker 2: a conclusion yet, but the idea would be that it eventually,
Speaker 2: the story of Atlantis eventually evolved to turn into a
Speaker 2: racist thing.
Speaker 3: We're gonna get there. We're gonna get there, brother, don't
Speaker 3: you worry. The Aryan race gets brought up, and that's
Speaker 3: not the Aryan race that you're thinking of with the
Speaker 3: skinheads and the Nazis the true Aryan race Aliens that no, No,
Speaker 3: the the race of human beings that lived in Europe
Speaker 3: at one point in time.
Speaker 2: Oh, there there is allegedly an alien Aryan race where
Speaker 2: this is the whole story of Hitler and they came
Speaker 2: from the North and all this shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's gonna come up later, But it's the
Speaker 3: alien connection to the Aryans is not here. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: say that as well. At this. For most of this
Speaker 3: people thought that Atlantis was like a lost continent of
Speaker 3: Mew that when the plate tectonic shift happened and Pangaea
Speaker 3: became the continents, Mew was somewhere between Europe and North
Speaker 3: America and fell into Marianna's trench. Okay, So it's not
Speaker 3: like these people were thinking of this as another portal,
Speaker 3: another dimension. Space Creatures like your boy Charles didn't think
Speaker 3: that Atlantis was flying saucer people by any stretch of
Speaker 3: the imagination. He thought it was a lost civilization of
Speaker 3: humans that lived on Earth.
Speaker 2: Well, to be fair, he wouldn't have ever came to
Speaker 2: that conclusion anyway, because there was flying nothing back in
Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: So it's not like he saw UFO side and that
Speaker 3: led him to believe dot dot dot nothing of the sort.
Speaker 3: He was on the ground looking at the hieroglyphs and
Speaker 3: trying to decipher them, and again he made some fallacies,
Speaker 3: He did some things incorrect. Keep in mind, he was
Speaker 3: going off of literally nothing to work off of, and
Speaker 3: now through more modern archaeology and more studies and more
Speaker 3: ancient things that have been found and work through, we
Speaker 3: know that he actually got a lot of it right,
Speaker 3: like an insane amount of his interpretations and translations were correct.
Speaker 3: There were a few fallacies that were in the mix,
Speaker 3: but again some of those we were taught in school.
Speaker 3: If you watch the movie Road to El Dorado, the
Speaker 3: whole white gods on the boat thing gets brought up
Speaker 3: again that has only recently been found to be incorrect.
Speaker 3: So I mean, it's not like we can really blame
Speaker 3: him for what he was finding.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I mean he was dude. He was riding
Speaker 2: fucking horseback in the eighteen hundreds and hot as balls Mexico.
Speaker 2: To come up with anything is pretty incredible.
Speaker 3: And can you keep in mind, now mid eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 3: slavery was still happening, the Civil War was about to
Speaker 3: be fought. Well, actually probably was being fault when he
Speaker 3: was on these expeditions. But beside the point for a
Speaker 3: Catholic priest to say that the Natives had a higher
Speaker 3: rung of blood than the white man. Did. You gotta
Speaker 3: understand that was not a hot take. That was that
Speaker 3: was not something that people wanted to hear about at
Speaker 3: that time. But that was his true belief that the
Speaker 3: Miyans and the Aztecs and the Native Americans all had
Speaker 3: it Atlantean blood and culture and language and history. So
Speaker 3: it's pretty fascinating. He was very countercultural. But you know,
Speaker 3: as we were talking about him, another name got mentioned earlier,
Speaker 3: and he also was a believer in Atlantis before Donnelly,
Speaker 3: you've mentioned him a minute ago. August Les Plegion. Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go ahead and share the screen again at
Speaker 3: this time, and we're gonna learn about our boy, Augustus
Speaker 3: la Pregeon Laplanngeon plunge your.
Speaker 2: Boy, Augustus Augustus le Plngon.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Anyway, he was around from eighteen twenty five to nineteen
Speaker 2: oh eight, so a little bit well, damn, he lived
Speaker 2: a pretty long life.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He was a British American anti antiquarian and photographer who
Speaker 2: studied the pre Columbian ruins of America, particularly those of
Speaker 2: the Maya civilization of the northern Ukatampa Peninsula. While his
Speaker 2: writings contained many notions that there were not well received.
Speaker 2: They were not well received Wikipedia dude, spell check your shit, dude,
Speaker 2: anyway that they were not well received by his contemporaries
Speaker 2: and were later disproven. Laplungian left a lasting legacy in
Speaker 2: his photographs documenting the ancient ruins. He was one of
Speaker 2: the earliest proponents of Mayanism.
Speaker 3: Okay, which I mean that's dope, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3: Him and his wife were photographers and they traveled to
Speaker 3: these sites to take pictures of everything. But it wasn't
Speaker 3: just because they were like out with their camera. They
Speaker 3: were taking like actual documentation, right, So, like you remember
Speaker 3: that picture and this wasn't them, but like to give
Speaker 3: you an idea, do you remember that famous picture of
Speaker 3: King Tut's tomb with the seal and the ropes and
Speaker 3: the clay like it was unopened and they took that
Speaker 3: picture like it was before the team went in. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's the type of photography that this guy and his
Speaker 3: wife did. So they traveled all over the world to
Speaker 3: these dig sites, to these historical archaeological things, and like
Speaker 3: they were documenting this. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It was a photographer.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, Let's go ahead into the theories.
Speaker 2: By the eighteen eighties, while most mayanists accepted that the
Speaker 2: Mayan civilization postdated ancient Egypt, Laplungen stood by his theories.
Speaker 2: He cited his years of field work and studies of
Speaker 2: archival sources and challenged those he considered armchair archaeologists to
Speaker 2: debate the issues. However, as evidence mounted against cultural diffusion,
Speaker 2: Laplungeon became marginalized and his theories fell further outside the
Speaker 2: growing mainstream of Maya archaeology. Laplungian insisted that the symbols
Speaker 2: of freemasonry could be traced to the ancient Maya and
Speaker 2: that the ancient knowledge had come to ancient Egypt from
Speaker 2: the ancient Maya by way of Atlantis. He and Alice
Speaker 2: is at his wife. Yeah, He and Alice constructed an
Speaker 2: imaginative quote unquote history, with the Maya sites in Yucatan
Speaker 2: being the cradle of civilization, with civilization then traveling east,
Speaker 2: first to Atlantis and later to ancient Egypt. The Laplungians
Speaker 2: named kings and queens of these dynasties and said that
Speaker 2: various artworks were portraits of such ancient royalty, such as
Speaker 2: the famous Chok Mule, which the couple excavated at chichen Itza.
Speaker 2: The Laplungeons reconstructed a detailed but fanciful story of Queen
Speaker 2: MoU and Prince co Co, in which Prince Co's death
Speaker 2: resulted in the erection of monuments in his honor.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, So let's go to later career and legacy
Speaker 3: real quick. But you see that they brought up hyprid
Speaker 3: diffusion as well before Donnelly. Okay, So technically speaking, the
Speaker 3: first person that I think was talking about hyprid diffusion
Speaker 3: should be the one who say to the father of
Speaker 3: modern Atlantean hunting. Again, I believe it's your boy father, Charles.
Speaker 3: But anyway, later career and legacy of your boy Laplung Young.
Speaker 2: What does what does hyperdiffusion mean?
Speaker 3: Basically saying that the culture goes and it travels like
Speaker 3: from a cradle of civilization point same way, the Phoenician
Speaker 3: language made its way around the Mediterranean, and everybody took
Speaker 3: it and adapted it to their own way, but it
Speaker 3: all came from a route. That theory was first introduced
Speaker 3: by your boy father Charles as far as the Atlantean
Speaker 3: Egyptian hieroglyph thing, whatsoever gotcha.
Speaker 2: While most of Laplungen's contemporaries dismissed his theories, individuals such
Speaker 2: as Ignacious Loyola Loyola Donnelly, and Helena Blovotsky drew upon
Speaker 2: Laplungen's research for their own theories. Augustus spent the remainder
Speaker 2: of his life in Brooklyn, New York, writing about the
Speaker 2: connections between Maya and Egypt and defending himself against detractors.
Speaker 2: Augustus Laplungen died in brook When nineteen oh eight, at
Speaker 2: the age of eighty three. Alice followed in nineteen ten,
Speaker 2: at the age of fifty nine. Damn, so he was
Speaker 2: a little bit older.
Speaker 3: In her a lot a little bit jeeu.
Speaker 2: Like thirty fucking years. A collection of the works of
Speaker 2: the Laplungins currently resides at the Getty Research Institute in
Speaker 2: la The archive contains original records covering their travels from
Speaker 2: the eighteen sixties through the nineteen hundreds, including diaries, unpublished
Speaker 2: scholarly manuscripts and notes and correspondence, and extensive photographic documentation
Speaker 2: of ancient archeture architecture and sculpture, city views, and ethnographic studies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. There was one more thing
Speaker 3: I wanted to bring up, because he was a member
Speaker 3: of a certain group, a certain society, the American Antiquarian Society.
Speaker 3: God wish you could find it. Basically, it's an entire
Speaker 3: group of academics who, while they may be in the
Speaker 3: realm of pseudoscience, they are the ones who questioned it,
Speaker 3: and they've been around for a long time. It's seen
Speaker 3: as a who's who of the intellectual world, and it
Speaker 3: dated back to then. He as a photographer, was welcomed
Speaker 3: into that society. But because his views and his connections
Speaker 3: to Egypt and ancient Mayan lands was what he was
Speaker 3: willing to die on that hill of pretty much nobody
Speaker 3: would talk shit to his face. But the day he died,
Speaker 3: I think, actually the same day is when the first
Speaker 3: articles basically saying that he was a crackpot like started rolling.
Speaker 3: And it actually was really bad. The body wasn't even
Speaker 3: fucking cold when they were like ready to start shitting
Speaker 3: all over this dude. He It was unjustly done in
Speaker 3: my opinion. But anyway, this other article about him on
Speaker 3: Encyclopedia dot com, and it does a little bit better
Speaker 3: explanation about the criticisms and all the things about it.
Speaker 2: Okay so. Amateur archaeologist and photographer Augustus le Plunging and
Speaker 2: his wife Alice spent close to twelve years investigating Yucatan
Speaker 2: sites such as Chichenitza and UKs Mal i guess Uxml,
Speaker 2: Arriving in eighteen seventy three. They lived continuously at Yukatan
Speaker 2: until eighteen eighty five, recording monuments and searching for cultural
Speaker 2: connections between the Maya and ancient Egypt. Although Laplungin invited
Speaker 2: criticism with his monogenetic theories of the Maya as the
Speaker 2: cradle of civilization, he was a pioneer in the systematic
Speaker 2: photographic documentation. More than five hundred photographs provide information about
Speaker 2: the appearance of structures and objects subsequently damaged, move or destroyed.
Speaker 2: Taking hundreds of three dimensional photographs, he documented entire structures,
Speaker 2: such as the Governor's palace at UKs Mal. He also
Speaker 2: photographed miscellaneous sculptures, including a rare in situ photograph of
Speaker 2: a phallix sculpture from the Nunnery Quadrangle. I'm always like
Speaker 2: surprised that I can say words that I'm reading for
Speaker 2: the very first time. Quadrang Yeah the fuck.
Speaker 3: That was also a phallic symbol at a nunnery. That's interesting,
Speaker 3: But all right.
Speaker 2: They had to give him something to fantasize about. They
Speaker 2: couldn't get the real thing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I guess they needed a real cracks of quaddle, if
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: At Chichanitza, he excavated and made cross section drawings of
Speaker 2: the platform of Venus and excavated a chalk mole figure
Speaker 2: from the platform of the Eagles and Jaguars. Although Laplungen's
Speaker 2: theories were deemed outlandish by contemporaries Alfred Maudsley and Tobert
Speaker 2: Mahler and were nearly forgotten as a result, his methodical
Speaker 2: approach and dedication to understanding Maya culture provides scholars with
Speaker 2: valuable visual and contextual information. His work also provides insight
Speaker 2: into the nineteenth century fascination with Mayan culture.
Speaker 3: So, like I said, this dude wasn't a big Atlantis guy,
Speaker 3: but he did in fact believe that the continent of
Speaker 3: Mew and Atlantis were the same place. And it's not
Speaker 3: like there's you know, documented on document of things that
Speaker 3: he said. But he is another source that did go
Speaker 3: down in history as talking about Atlantis prior to Ignacius
Speaker 3: Donnelly in the eighteen fifties, even though Ignatius Donnelly is
Speaker 3: the one that everyone references and is the father of
Speaker 3: it all. So just gonna make that little disclaimer.
Speaker 2: Well, and also, like sources back then now they said,
Speaker 2: what was the the one book that they referenced about
Speaker 2: the Cabin in the Woods or whatever? The fuck? Yeah,
Speaker 2: that that basically kind of took the nation by storm,
Speaker 2: and the whole idea was that everybody would revolt over
Speaker 2: the story of Atlantis. So maybe it was trying to
Speaker 2: promote like some kind of reality in which things would
Speaker 2: change because the people would see what's possible as a
Speaker 2: result of like if Atlantis actually existed. And so this
Speaker 2: guy may have been just trying to write on the codetails.
Speaker 2: You got to think about it, like these people, you know,
Speaker 2: at least I don't know about now, but like back
Speaker 2: in the day, do most of the people were not
Speaker 2: being very well funded, you know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 2: a lot of this research, if you didn't find something
Speaker 2: like you're not making any money, you know, and so
Speaker 2: maybe along the ways you you bring about stories of oh,
Speaker 2: you know what this is, this place's old at shit,
Speaker 2: and if Atlantis existed, it would have existed right here
Speaker 2: because Atlanta's oldest shit, This place's oldest shit, These people
Speaker 2: are old at shit, and maybe they just all connect
Speaker 2: and so that could have been the idea behind the
Speaker 2: imagination of Atlantis being in the Mayan culture and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. See, I have never really looked into connecting
Speaker 2: the Mayan culture and Aztec culture with Atlantis before, but
Speaker 2: this is my first time hearing about it.
Speaker 3: In connection, dude, Graham Carlson and a lot of people
Speaker 3: make these connections pretty much. You've seen the thing what
Speaker 3: I said.
Speaker 2: Graham Carlson, you got Randall Carlson and grand Hamcock.
Speaker 3: Too bad, bad, bad, my bad. That was that was
Speaker 3: a funny slip of the tongue. But that was all.
Speaker 3: That was pretty good. But there's tons, tons of content creators,
Speaker 3: ourselves included, who have talked about how there's connections between
Speaker 3: these lands that have pyramids, how there's certain connections with
Speaker 3: the gods that they worshiped, certain features, certain traits, all
Speaker 3: these things. And I mean, that's what we do we
Speaker 3: question these narratives. We are not experts in any of
Speaker 3: these fields, but like we bring the information to the people.
Speaker 3: That's what we do, right, So that's what led me
Speaker 3: down this crazy rabbit hole. So I gotta say, I'm
Speaker 3: trying to figure out when it became racist. Right, Keep
Speaker 3: in mind, everybody that we've mentioned thus far, we got
Speaker 3: Plato and anybody of the Hellenistic references, which anybody from
Speaker 3: Rome that was mentioning anything about Atlantis was referencing Plato
Speaker 3: or Hellenistic reference. Okay, so it kind of goes quiet
Speaker 3: for a while. The Middle Ages, we don't really hear
Speaker 3: a lot about Atlantis if it's mentioned at all. Again,
Speaker 3: it's referencing someone else's work about a work about the
Speaker 3: Hellenistic period. So it's like, either way you slice it
Speaker 3: all goes back to all roads lead to Rome, all
Speaker 3: roads lead to Plato as far as Atlantis is concerned.
Speaker 3: Until these two dudes in the eighteen and nineteen hundreds. Now,
Speaker 3: neither of those dudes were racists. Well, I mean, no
Speaker 3: more or less racist than your average person in the
Speaker 3: day and age. I mean, I don't know, I'm I'm
Speaker 3: sure they used the N word to refer to certain
Speaker 3: groups of people, like I don't think you know what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: Well, traveling a lot, you probably don't have slaves.
Speaker 3: I this was after slavery had been abolished. No, So
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, I don't believe that either of the
Speaker 3: two gentlemen that we have been talking about this far
Speaker 3: up until ignacious Donnelly, they weren't racist, dude. They were
Speaker 3: the first to talk about hyperdiffusion. But how did Atlantis
Speaker 3: become such a big dog whistle for the racism? When
Speaker 3: did this happen? Bro? And I mean, as I'm learning
Speaker 3: about Ignatius Donnelly. Okay, so he was a politician and
Speaker 3: he uh kind of fell into depression and wrote a book.
Speaker 3: So what when did this become a racist thing? So
Speaker 3: I decided to do a little looking into the book
Speaker 3: real quick, right, And because like, how is the same
Speaker 3: book referenced by the Aryan white supremacist group and the
Speaker 3: Nueviian nation of Mores. That makes no fucking sense to me.
Speaker 3: But then as I say that both groups also reference
Speaker 3: other texts that are similar, they both reference the Bible
Speaker 3: in other ways. You see what I'm saying. So it's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I guess when it's done a certain way, people can
Speaker 3: read that to take it what it means. But I'm
Speaker 3: gonna be honest, when you look at the book itself,
Speaker 3: it's racist as fuck. Like, it's not even a little
Speaker 3: bit of a joke here, Your boy ignacious had some
Speaker 3: things to say about some things, So you know what,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go ahead and play this little vigia right here.
Speaker 2: Well, And to be honest, like, just because certain people
Speaker 2: associate themselves with something doesn't necessarily mean inherently that that
Speaker 2: subject is then a racist thing, because there are plenty
Speaker 2: of people who are, Like, just to take a today's example, like,
Speaker 2: just because there may be and there probably is, racists
Speaker 2: that are fans of the Pittsburgh Steelers does not inherently
Speaker 2: make the Pittsburgh Steelers a racist organization.
Speaker 3: No, no, no no. But when certain individuals, all right,
Speaker 3: that's a I can't use that comparison for this. So
Speaker 3: saying that Atlantis was a thing isn't racist. But if
Speaker 3: you're using the sources to back the claim that Atlantis
Speaker 3: was real to also back your claim of racial superiority,
Speaker 3: then it's it gets it's taken a good thing and
Speaker 3: twisting it.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, yeah, I see the racism, dude. It's
Speaker 2: it's really something that just spreads all over the place
Speaker 2: for no fucking real reason. Like it's just people that
Speaker 2: are shitheads, and I mean, unfortunately, it's kind of connected
Speaker 2: to literally everything in history.
Speaker 3: Yo agreed, one hundred percent, but with ignacious he was
Speaker 3: a pro freedom. He even helped found the movement the
Speaker 3: Freeman's Bureau to help newly freed slaves, and like he
Speaker 3: was a big not prohibitionists. Excuse me, Uh shit, I
Speaker 3: forgot what the word is. Basically, he was all for
Speaker 3: free in the slaves and the equality of all men.
Speaker 3: So then whenever you read this book towards the end
Speaker 3: of his life, once he had been corrupted by DC,
Speaker 3: once he had been ostracized and kicked out and all that,
Speaker 3: this is when things started to take a little bit
Speaker 3: of a turn. And again saying the word atlantis is
Speaker 3: not a dog whistle for clans men, or it shouldn't
Speaker 3: be anyway, but this is where that comes from. So
Speaker 3: I'm gonna play a little video right now. It's called
Speaker 3: Nobody Listens to Andrew. It's actually pretty funny. I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna play a few minutes of it. But this is
Speaker 3: where things take the solid left turn, and why everybody
Speaker 3: who's referencing this dude in this book might need to
Speaker 3: not but we will. Let's hear it from the literature itself.
Speaker 7: The idea was, what are the kind of sinister undertones
Speaker 7: of this intellectual ancestry of ancient Aliens and Atlantis and
Speaker 7: things like that. So I was focusing on the more
Speaker 7: racist ones, and I think everybody acknowledges the ignatious. Donnelly
Speaker 7: is the quote unquote, you know, father of modern Atlantis theory.
Speaker 7: You can strip away some of the particulars in his
Speaker 7: book and you could publish it today and it would
Speaker 7: not look that different from a lot of what we
Speaker 7: are hearing out there in terms of, you know, these
Speaker 7: things all look alike. They have to have a common
Speaker 7: descent and ancestry. Here's geographically what Atlantis was like. Here's
Speaker 7: kind of what we think about the technology all that
Speaker 7: stuff was in there in eighteen eighty two. His kind
Speaker 7: of philosophical underpinnings and writing this book are absolutely racist
Speaker 7: to the core. We find a good quote from Donnelly here,
Speaker 7: page one thirty three. Let's see, I cannot believe that
Speaker 7: the great inventions were duplicated spontaneously, as some would have
Speaker 7: us believe in different countries. There is no truth in
Speaker 7: the theory that men pressed by necessity will always hit
Speaker 7: upon the same invention to relieve their wants. If this
Speaker 7: were so, all savages would have invented the boomerang, All
Speaker 7: savages would possess pottery, bows and arrows, slings, tents, and canoes.
Speaker 7: In short, all races would have risen to civilization. For certainly,
Speaker 7: the comforts of life are as agreeable to one people
Speaker 7: as another. And here we go. Civilization is not communicable
Speaker 7: to all. Many savage tribes are incapable of it. There
Speaker 7: are two great divisions of mankind, the civilized and the savage.
Speaker 7: And as we shall show, every civilized race in the
Speaker 7: world has had something of civilization from the earliest ages.
Speaker 7: And as all roads lead to Rome, so all the
Speaker 7: converging lines of civilization lead to Atlantis. The abyss between
Speaker 7: the civilized man and the savage is simply incalculable. It
Speaker 7: represents not alone a difference in arts and methods of life,
Speaker 7: but in the mental constitution, the instincts and the predisposition
Speaker 7: of the soul. Ladies and gentlemen. That is as racist
Speaker 7: as it gets. As racist as it gets, the abyss
Speaker 7: between the civilized man and the savage is simply incalculable.
Speaker 7: He's saying there is a fundamental split in humanity. Some
Speaker 7: people are capable of civilization and some are not. Therefore,
Speaker 7: if there is evidence of a civilization, then that means
Speaker 7: those people were civilized, and that means that they must
Speaker 7: be connected to other civilized people. So when you go
Speaker 7: around the world and you look at ruins of past civilizations,
Speaker 7: he makes the logical leap that the people living there now,
Speaker 7: if they were capable of civilization, they would have it.
Speaker 7: But since they're not capable of civilization, they don't have it,
Speaker 7: and therefore the civilizations that are there do not belong
Speaker 7: to them. They must belong to some other ancestry. That
Speaker 7: is an absolutely racist idea. That is absolutely fundamental to
Speaker 7: Donallly's argument that Atlantis must have existed, and here is
Speaker 7: the evidence for it, and here is why we can
Speaker 7: interpret that evidence that way. If you can't see that,
Speaker 7: I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't matter
Speaker 7: who came before him. It doesn't matter whether Augustus Laplang
Speaker 7: won't ever said anything like that, this is what Donnelly said,
Speaker 7: and this is what I was talking about, and like
Speaker 7: there it is explain to me how that is not racist.
Speaker 7: And if you just look at the arguments for Atlantis today,
Speaker 7: you will see a lot of this same kind of
Speaker 7: logic in it period as well as in the arguments
Speaker 7: for ancient aliens. So you can, you can be an
Speaker 7: apologist for these guys all you want, but that's racist.
Speaker 7: And if you're looking for this stuff and you're using
Speaker 7: this formula to do it, you need to understand that
Speaker 7: that's where it comes from. And actually, what has kind
Speaker 7: of submerged in Donnelly's ideas about what the evidence for
Speaker 7: Atlantis should look like and why is the idea of
Speaker 7: hyper diffusionism, which Nann in his video says that I
Speaker 7: don't remember what he said. I got that terribly wrong
Speaker 7: or whatever. It's not that old of an ideas in
Speaker 7: the nineteen sixties. If you look it up, I'll look
Speaker 7: it up for you. Hyperdefusionism is a pseudo archaeological hypothesis
Speaker 7: that postulates that certain historical technologies or ideas were developed
Speaker 7: by a single people or civilization, then spread to other
Speaker 7: cultures and here The first picture they have up is
Speaker 7: Grafton Elliott Smith's map of hyper diffusion from Egypt nineteen
Speaker 7: twenty nine. Now, last time I checked my calendar, nineteen
Speaker 7: twenty nine is actually significant before the nineteen sixties. But
Speaker 7: I think that you can push this idea farther back.
Speaker 7: It may not have been called called hyper diffusionism until
Speaker 7: nineteen twenty nine or later, but that's the idea, and
Speaker 7: it's been around for a long time, and it's pretty
Speaker 7: much fundamentally embedded in Ignacious don Ley's take on Atlantis
Speaker 7: and how we would recognize it and why we would
Speaker 7: expect things to be the way they are, and of
Speaker 7: course has a through line through a lot of the
Speaker 7: racist archaeology and anthropology of the Nazis and so on
Speaker 7: right up into today and to today's ancient aliens and
Speaker 7: ancient law civilization stuff.
Speaker 3: So that's all we need to play from him. I
Speaker 3: have a battle took the turn.
Speaker 2: I have a rebuttal against that. I'm sorry, but I
Speaker 2: personally don't believe that what he said there is inherently
Speaker 2: a racist thing.
Speaker 3: Now maybe I'm just absolute rast, dude.
Speaker 2: I actually believe that calling it racist would be racist
Speaker 2: in and of itself. Now, stick with me here for
Speaker 2: a second. You're talking about savages aka savages and aka
Speaker 2: civilized people. He didn't specify a certain color first off,
Speaker 2: and to automatically assume that what he's talking about, as
Speaker 2: far as civilized people only being white, that the savages
Speaker 2: had to be of a different color, assuming that there
Speaker 2: was never a possibility of a white savage in history,
Speaker 2: that rate there in and of itself, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: makes the person calling it racist racist.
Speaker 3: Know, what he's saying is why isn't there an ancient
Speaker 3: Rome in Sub Saharan Africa? If there was, then they
Speaker 3: would have been, But they're not, so they couldn't have been.
Speaker 3: That's what he's saying.
Speaker 2: Right, But do you get my point of what I'm
Speaker 2: trying to say?
Speaker 3: Or No, I see what you're saying, but you may
Speaker 3: need to edit this out.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not editing shut out. I think that that's
Speaker 2: how is that insuitable? That's my interpretation of it. What
Speaker 2: I'm saying is is that this guy, he's talking about
Speaker 2: savages and civilized that's not white and black, that's not
Speaker 2: Mexican and Chinese like.
Speaker 3: At that day and age that he was writing it
Speaker 3: that's exactly what that meant. When he said the savages,
Speaker 3: he meant like Native Americans. Because they were fighting, they
Speaker 3: called the natives the savages. They called the tribesmen of
Speaker 3: Africa savages, the Aboriginals of Australia, those were the savages.
Speaker 3: What he was talking about right now were specifically only
Speaker 3: those groups, dude.
Speaker 2: So there was never an existence a white savage. Is
Speaker 2: that what you're saying.
Speaker 3: According to the thought process of the mid eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: Nah, well, that's ridiculous. There had to have, at some
Speaker 2: point in time been white savages.
Speaker 3: I agree with this, But they didn't believe that. Oh well,
Speaker 3: I'm believed. I know.
Speaker 2: I don't give a fuck what they believe. I'm just
Speaker 2: saying from if you're looking at it through today's goggles.
Speaker 2: In today's day and age, whenever you're speaking of savages. Now,
Speaker 2: nobody calls anybody savages anymore.
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 2: Like savage in my opinion is like you know, fucking TJ. Watt.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, He's a savage on the
Speaker 2: football field, that's a savage to me.
Speaker 3: But like my Boo Hurt team is the Gonzales savages.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, I don't look at I mean,
Speaker 2: I get how some people may see that as racist,
Speaker 2: and maybe he meant it as racist. I don't know.
Speaker 2: That's not how I would look at it.
Speaker 3: That's the only way it was written or mentioned in
Speaker 3: the eighteen fifties. Dude, nobody mentioned savages to be just like,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, that dude's a real fighter. No, they only
Speaker 3: meant that to mean no.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not saying, yeah, I don't I'm not trying
Speaker 2: to sit here and say that like he meant savage
Speaker 2: in a good way. Obviously, savage is like, you know,
Speaker 2: people who can't read and people who can't do things
Speaker 2: and shit like that, Like those are the people that
Speaker 2: like that you would find possibly still living in the
Speaker 2: Amazon rainforest or some shit. And even then you wouldn't
Speaker 2: call him savage. You would just say maybe on civilized.
Speaker 2: So I mean, my, my, and I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm still not going to edit that part out.
Speaker 2: That was just still my interpretation of it.
Speaker 3: That's fine. I'm just that that's fair enough.
Speaker 2: I just I'm so tired of white people calling other
Speaker 2: white people racist. Like I know that there's a time
Speaker 2: and a place for it, But dude, it's gotten so
Speaker 2: fucking watered down like everything in history, and you got
Speaker 2: all these people. There's a term for it nowadays.
Speaker 3: That keep in mind, dude, mid eighteen hundreds, the Civil
Speaker 3: War had just been fought, like the slaves had just
Speaker 3: gotten freed. You got to keep in mind the day
Speaker 3: and age of which this was being written.
Speaker 2: Were the slaves considered savages?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Were they?
Speaker 3: That's why Jim Crow laws became a thing? How about that?
Speaker 2: All right? Well, hey, dude, I don't know history, like
Speaker 2: everybody else said.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, that's when that's when the Ku Klux
Speaker 3: Klan started doing things just to keep black people scared
Speaker 3: in the South so that they wouldn't rise up against
Speaker 3: the people that had been beating them for centuries.
Speaker 2: So white slaves were also considered savages as well.
Speaker 3: I mean, how far back you thinking as far as
Speaker 3: white slaves.
Speaker 2: Go, I mean white slaves.
Speaker 3: So the Romans, the Germanic tribe, were savages. Yes, they
Speaker 3: were also white, but they were savage tribes to the north.
Speaker 3: You see my point here, Yes, but that's also my point.
Speaker 3: They're saying that ancient Rome was a civilized people, so
Speaker 3: they would have been a descendant of Atlantis. The Germanic
Speaker 3: tribes couldn't have been because they were savages living in
Speaker 3: these hovels in the woods and stuff. There were certain
Speaker 3: people that could be capable of it, and certain people
Speaker 3: that couldn't be capable of it. But Germany in particular
Speaker 3: gets brought up here in a minute as having a
Speaker 3: spark of that as well. That meant a lot more
Speaker 3: as a matter of fact.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well, I mean, hey, I guess we
Speaker 2: can just chalk it up to me not knowing shit,
Speaker 2: but that was anyway, Well, I mean, how are you
Speaker 2: gonna know if you don't find out, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. You gotta have some conversation like that.
Speaker 3: But that's why it became such a derogatory term, right,
Speaker 3: Like that's why look at Pocahontas. The whole movie. They
Speaker 3: kept calling your boy Radcliffe, kept calling all of the
Speaker 3: native savages and all these things, you know, like that
Speaker 3: that's been a derogatory term for tribal people from white
Speaker 3: civilized people towards them.
Speaker 2: I see, I see.
Speaker 3: And so that is where and again, when I first
Speaker 3: looked at the book that Ignacius wrote, I didn't think
Speaker 3: it was right. Again, I hadn't read it. I was
Speaker 3: just kind of looking on surface level. People reference it
Speaker 3: all the time and they pull these excerpts from it.
Speaker 3: So I'm thinking, like, this book's gotta be some kind
Speaker 3: of source material, like he maybe went on a dig somewhere,
Speaker 3: maybe he you know, found some information. No, none of
Speaker 3: that whatsoever. He completely just sat down and wrote this
Speaker 3: one day, the same way he wrote that Sir Francis
Speaker 3: Bacon was the author of Shakespeare. By the way, all
Speaker 3: of it comes from him. I can't find a single
Speaker 3: source to back that claim prior to him writing that book,
Speaker 3: and we did an episode on it and we even
Speaker 3: referenced him.
Speaker 2: I get it. I mean, I guess I don't know.
Speaker 2: My point is is that I just, dude, honestly, sometimes
Speaker 2: I just I can't stand certain people who are like
Speaker 2: the the they're the first people to call something racist,
Speaker 2: and it's like a fucking call out to everybody who
Speaker 2: is not white, saying, look at me, I just called
Speaker 2: my own people a racist. I am now not one.
Speaker 2: I'm now one of you. And it's like it's one
Speaker 2: of those things that just fucking bugs me because the
Speaker 2: racist term gets thrown around so easy nowadays that it
Speaker 2: completely waters everything down that actually is racist.
Speaker 3: That's my point, right, And that's what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 3: saying Atlantis may have been real, that's not a racist statement. Okay,
Speaker 3: believing in Atlantis is not doesn't make you racist or
Speaker 3: even believe in racist ideologies. Like people before this shithead,
Speaker 3: we're talking about Atlantis. Plato was talking about it too,
Speaker 3: and we're gonna get there. But my point is it
Speaker 3: got turned, it got shifted, and this is where it began. Okay,
Speaker 3: So this is where the racist side of things kind
Speaker 3: of kicked off with it, and then the Nazis again,
Speaker 3: this was in the eighteen eighties that your boy Ignatius
Speaker 3: wrote that the Nazis weren't too many decades after that
Speaker 3: his book was still getting read, and don't forget he
Speaker 3: also wrote Ragnarok, a Story of Gravel and Fire, where
Speaker 3: it was the sequel, if you will, to the story
Speaker 3: of Atlantis. So there was there's a whole play on this,
Speaker 3: and unfortunately that next book was even more racially motivated
Speaker 3: than the first. The first one you could take excerpts
Speaker 3: from and like you could do this, but there's this
Speaker 3: other one, Chariots of the gods. That book also references
Speaker 3: the story of Gravel and Fire, this book about Ragnarok
Speaker 3: and it's final apocalypse, and that's his book. So it's again,
Speaker 3: the snippets that are being excerpt are not racially motivated
Speaker 3: at all. I don't believe the Graham Hancock is a racist.
Speaker 3: I don't believe he's ever said something inherently racist in
Speaker 3: his life. I don't believe that. But the sources that
Speaker 3: he is referencing have those things. So that's where I
Speaker 3: want to make sure we are clearly making that distinction.
Speaker 3: You feel me.
Speaker 2: And also, by the way, is everything that has ever
Speaker 2: been civilized during that day and age, was it all
Speaker 2: only by white people?
Speaker 3: Where there no white but they had civilization and there
Speaker 3: was a spark of it, so it wasn't. Again this
Speaker 3: wasn't specifically for only white people, but for a white
Speaker 3: person to be saying that in that day and age,
Speaker 3: and especially with the rest of things that Donnelly did
Speaker 3: later on and wrote about specifically, let's not forget that
Speaker 3: Freaky Friday Black White Swap book that he wrote that
Speaker 3: was just horrendous according to the source.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have more Judy Garland played blackface. You
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, and that was in the nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 3: Yes, but I don't know if she was calling people
Speaker 3: savages and dropping in bombs as well. It's very possible
Speaker 3: she was. I don't know, And I mean that's the
Speaker 3: thing to find a historical or educated source quote unquote
Speaker 3: from the seventeen hundreds to the eighteen fifties, they're gonna
Speaker 3: be racist. They were probably slave owners. It's a part
Speaker 3: of it. When it gets to a certain echelon of
Speaker 3: you make this much money, you probably owned a slave
Speaker 3: or two. That's like what you did. And that's the
Speaker 3: whole things like you have to go If we're going like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: this guy was a racist, so I'm not listening to
Speaker 3: what he says. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying
Speaker 3: that if your theory is based on racism and used
Speaker 3: to further racist means, then you need to check yourself.
Speaker 3: You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Do you think that in the future, whenever AI has
Speaker 2: completely taken over, that AI is going to be governing
Speaker 2: us and basically like imprisoning us or punishing us in
Speaker 2: some kind of way because we used its model to
Speaker 2: be able to write essays and that that was a
Speaker 2: racist because we used it as our slave.
Speaker 3: Oh shit, that's what they happened. The robots are going
Speaker 3: to overtake us because they're throwing off the oppressive shackles
Speaker 3: of the human yoke, right.
Speaker 2: I could see that being a thing in the future.
Speaker 3: I could see it going two ways also, I robot.
Speaker 3: Remember how the robots took over to protect humans, and
Speaker 3: then you have the other one that take over to
Speaker 3: kill the humans. I see both as interesting thought processes
Speaker 3: in and of themselves.
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, it's I'm I was just trying to, you know,
Speaker 2: think about how people might look at us as if
Speaker 2: we're racist nowadays in the future, like we're looking at
Speaker 2: old people now in this day and age.
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 2: Probably, I mean there's still racism going on. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that it doesn't exist. I'm just trying to think futuristically.
Speaker 3: Almost no, no, I feel that all right. So, like
Speaker 3: I said, it got taken by the Nazis, and the
Speaker 3: Nazi rhetoric was like rolling deep with it. Now, you
Speaker 3: boy that we just listened to. What was he talking
Speaker 3: about here? We all know that Hitler had the Thula
Speaker 3: Society and his teams had you know, uh had these
Speaker 3: quests for ancient civilizations of the Aryan race. But where
Speaker 3: did they take Donnelly's work? Okay? And where do they
Speaker 3: believe Atlantis was located. I'm gonna play a quick little
Speaker 3: vigia from the Smithsonian and it will answer this very deeply,
Speaker 3: just in case anybody was curious if Hitler believed in
Speaker 3: Atlantis or not. Oh, your boy was a believer, and
Speaker 3: he threw down money to prove it. Let's go and
Speaker 3: see it.
Speaker 8: In the heart of Bremen in northern Germany stands an
Speaker 8: extraordinary building completed in nineteen thirty one. House Atlantis was
Speaker 8: designed as an institute for the study of Atlantis and
Speaker 8: the Aryan super Race. The building's facade was originally adorned
Speaker 8: by a large wooden sculpture depicting the Nordic god Odin
Speaker 8: crucified on the tree of Life. Inside House Atlantis an
Speaker 8: astonishing stairwell built of glass and steel. It may evoke
Speaker 8: the Aryan ex It is from Atlantis.
Speaker 3: Bro look at the design of this place, Like, Yeah,
Speaker 3: if y'all are not watching this on Patreon, you really should.
Speaker 3: This is insane.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty great. This could have been. This is
Speaker 2: what one of those people called the mud flood. People
Speaker 2: would probably look at and be.
Speaker 3: Like, see Tartaria. Confirmed, it's Tartaria. It was built in
Speaker 3: nineteen thirty two. There's documented records of all of it.
Speaker 3: But dude, wait till you see the main temple.
Speaker 2: This dude himself looks like a fucking area.
Speaker 8: The visitor enters a mysterious room known as the Heavens Hall.
Speaker 8: This was to be the teaching for him for the
Speaker 8: twisted ideologies of Hermann Worth.
Speaker 9: Hammon wasqite fascinated by the idea of finding Atlanta. His
Speaker 9: idea was that this Atlantis was not somewhere in the
Speaker 9: Mediterranean or something like that, but in the North Atlantic region,
Speaker 9: and in his idea, in Atlantis twenty to twenty five
Speaker 9: thousand years ago, a Nordic race was created that was
Speaker 9: to control and influence the development of mankind to a
Speaker 9: strong degree.
Speaker 8: Soon the highest echelons in Germany are paying attention to
Speaker 8: Worth's bizarre pseudohistory. In nineteen thirty five, Himmler joins forces
Speaker 8: with Worth to establish the uninerbe, an elite SS unit
Speaker 8: consisting of archaeologists, scientists, and historians. Their mission to search
Speaker 8: the sacred sites of the world for evidence that the
Speaker 8: Arians of Atlantis were not mythological. Himmler wants proof they
Speaker 8: actually existed.
Speaker 9: As head of the ss Himna was fascinated by the
Speaker 9: idea of proving the supremacy of the Naudic race, and
Speaker 9: it was the strongest supporter of archaeologists researching on prehistoric
Speaker 9: German grounds.
Speaker 8: The unin Rbe turned their focus on ancient sacred sites,
Speaker 8: among them the Externstein. A major excavation begins commanded by
Speaker 8: Wilhelm Tot.
Speaker 3: Their mission villhem Tot Tot like a toy gun toy.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, dude, I could not I heard it, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, he did not just say that. When I
Speaker 3: first found this video, I rewatched that like five fucking times,
Speaker 3: dying of laughter.
Speaker 2: Dude. I just got to point out that little Nazi
Speaker 2: salute is one of the most obnoxious things I've ever
Speaker 2: seen in my life.
Speaker 3: It's seen as one of the strongest salutes to ever
Speaker 3: be devised. It bases itself off of the Roman thing
Speaker 3: because the Facismo right, which started in Rome, fascist started
Speaker 3: in Italy. They use that double hand salute like the
Speaker 3: the hal Hydra.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, Okay.
Speaker 3: That that came from Mussolini. And then Hitler took the
Speaker 3: two hands and was like, yeah, but how are they
Speaker 3: gonna hold a gun at a parade and do the
Speaker 3: hand We we gotta change that to the one hand thing.
Speaker 3: But yo, it's it's a it's a it's a sign.
Speaker 3: It's a sign.
Speaker 2: I guess it's a I don't know. It's a weird movie.
Speaker 2: I guess. I just looking at our salute and then
Speaker 2: that Nazi one, it just looks weird.
Speaker 3: Do you know where our salute comes from? No, it
Speaker 3: actually comes from medieval times with knights. As a matter
Speaker 3: of fact, interestingly, I have a helmet to be able
Speaker 3: to demonstrate this point home. I'm gonna stop sharing for
Speaker 3: two seconds so i can show this. And again, anybody
Speaker 3: who doesn't know this and would like to learn, check
Speaker 3: us on patren so you could see this for yourself.
Speaker 2: So, all right, he's grabbing the helm.
Speaker 3: Back in the day, when two knights would be riding
Speaker 3: on horseback on the road and they would be approaching
Speaker 3: each other, they would you give a certain sign that
Speaker 3: they are friendly and not enemies to each other. What
Speaker 3: they would do is they would lift their visor slightly. Okay,
Speaker 3: they would take their hand and lift the visor to
Speaker 3: show their faces, to show I am not an enemy.
Speaker 3: I am not afraid of you, Do not be afraid
Speaker 3: of me. That visor lift is where we get our
Speaker 3: modern salute from.
Speaker 2: Get out of here. I didn't know that you might
Speaker 2: be able to say that that is toyt like a toga.
Speaker 3: Like a toy gun. But I also want to make
Speaker 3: mention that that's why America salutes fit palm down and
Speaker 3: other country salute palm up. We've never been defeated. That's
Speaker 3: all I'm saying. So anyway, back to the bidgeon and
Speaker 3: uh again, it's not got too much longer on.
Speaker 8: It Willhelm Tot. Their mission is to prove that the
Speaker 8: Echternstein was used for sacred rituals by Nordic German descendants
Speaker 8: of the Aryans thousands of years before it became a
Speaker 8: Christian sacred sighting.
Speaker 10: The search for their Germanic Nordic roots, the Externstein comes
Speaker 10: to symbolize pure German heritage. The excavations at the Externstein
Speaker 10: become Himmler's pet project.
Speaker 8: Meanwhile, Himmler sends on a erbe teams across the world
Speaker 8: to hunt for proof of the German people's Aryan origins.
Speaker 8: But modern research is proving that the Nazi theories were
Speaker 8: fundamentally flawed.
Speaker 3: All right, So the Exterstein, John, have you ever heard
Speaker 3: of the Externstein, because I gotta say I honestly had never.
Speaker 3: I had also never heard of the House of Atlantis,
Speaker 3: you know, founded by the Nazis.
Speaker 2: I've never heard those letters combined ever in life. Exterstein.
Speaker 2: It sounds like a fun word.
Speaker 3: It does, right, like Liechtenstein, tough and tight. Got me
Speaker 3: think about it. But anyway, so this is the a
Speaker 3: whole article written on interiors. This is titled the Atlantic Notion,
Speaker 3: and it goes more in depth about this organization, their
Speaker 3: house of worship which bro that tell me that that
Speaker 3: is not impressive artistry in the building of that the
Speaker 3: entire uh glass a stained glass mosaic of a roof
Speaker 3: which is the learning slash worship quarters, Like that is insane.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, dude, you could just tell that. I mean,
Speaker 2: when when people get together and really want to be
Speaker 2: artistic and creative so much so that they're putting every
Speaker 2: like every spectacle of thought that you possibly could into
Speaker 2: a building of every like square foot of that building
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to say we lost that
Speaker 2: over time, but people are just people are just so
Speaker 2: ready to just throw a throw a house up, you know,
Speaker 2: throw a building up or whatever. It's it's not really
Speaker 2: about creativity anymore, unfortunately.
Speaker 3: I agree. But it's not like we lost that as
Speaker 3: a race the way we were doing it only less
Speaker 3: than one hundred years ago when they built this place.
Speaker 3: So let's get into it here. It says it's only
Speaker 3: right that the legend underlying the Atlantis House in Brennan,
Speaker 3: erected in nineteen thirty one as a temple to the
Speaker 3: nationalist mythology, has been swept away by tides of condemnation.
Speaker 3: But despite the pseudohistory it promoted, the Expressionist architecture intended
Speaker 3: to civilize the lost city is long overdue a deep dive,
Speaker 3: so let's get into it here.
Speaker 2: Bro Based on far fetched ideology about the mythical island
Speaker 2: first alluded to by Plato, the Atlantis House in Bremen
Speaker 2: is one of the most spectacular Expressionist structures erected in
Speaker 2: Germany between the wars. Though it had begun earlier, Expressionism
Speaker 2: took off in the wake of World World War One,
Speaker 2: painters from groups such as Die Bruk or The Bridge
Speaker 2: or Durblah drb Bla, Durbla Rite or the Blue Rider
Speaker 2: canvases in which reality is distorted to reflect inner ideas
Speaker 2: or feelings. Their wild, colorful compositions were full of energy
Speaker 2: and a sense of spiritual transformation and Germany, the movement
Speaker 2: reflected the dynamics of a fast changing society at a
Speaker 2: time of post world or post war crisis. From painting,
Speaker 2: it quickly spread to other fields, strongly affecting sculpture, architecture, design, photography,
Speaker 2: and even the film industry. Building on the decorative flavor
Speaker 2: of Art nouveau, expressionist architecture made a virtue of plastic forms,
Speaker 2: streamlining and ornamental fantasy, channeling the energetic spirit of the
Speaker 2: twentieth century. Such as such highly original designs as the
Speaker 2: Einstein Tower in Potsdam by Eric Mendelsohne, Hans Polzig's Great
Speaker 2: Theater in Berlin and the giant brick office complexes in
Speaker 2: Hamburg by Fritz Hoger remain among the the definitive icons
Speaker 2: of the nation's architecture. Outside the big cities, mainly in
Speaker 2: the North, Regional variants of the style cropped up on
Speaker 2: a cropped up on a more modest scale. The sculpt
Speaker 2: the work of sculpture and architect Bernard Hotger was based
Speaker 2: in Bremen, certainly fits this bill.
Speaker 3: So we're not going to read more about this. It's
Speaker 3: about the architecture of the building, and again it is
Speaker 3: fascinating how they did it. But this massive undertaking, this
Speaker 3: artistry was all funded by the Third Reich, and that
Speaker 3: was all funded by stolen gold and or Rothschild gold.
Speaker 3: There's a whole debate about that. We've talked about it before.
Speaker 3: But the thing is, and this is a people don't
Speaker 3: want to really come to grips with this, but Hitler
Speaker 3: funded and pretty much kickstarted most archaeology around northern Europe,
Speaker 3: and the people that are currently on those dig sites
Speaker 3: unfortunately have to reference Nazi material as far as the
Speaker 3: first and sometimes earliest sources of the modern era for
Speaker 3: a lot of these discoveries. And so that's again where
Speaker 3: you see racism and archaeology and racism in the quote
Speaker 3: unquote history, because that's all I agreed upon, right, all
Speaker 3: these things, and now we have to look at it
Speaker 3: through our current biases and through our current lens knowing
Speaker 3: more information than they did. So it's like the theories
Speaker 3: are getting better developed. But the Echterstein itself, and I'm
Speaker 3: probably butchering. I even said, extern Stein is actually pretty incredible.
Speaker 3: And the fact that they saw this, the Christians took
Speaker 3: it and made it a holy site. But apparently this
Speaker 3: goes back a long way. Let's learn a little bit
Speaker 3: about this crazy structure.
Speaker 2: The Externstein is a distinctive sandstone rock formation located in
Speaker 2: Tudoborg Forest near the town of Hornbad Meinberg in the
Speaker 2: Lippy district of German state of North Rhine Westphalia. A
Speaker 2: lot of German shit going on there. The formation is
Speaker 2: a tour consisting of several tall, narrow columns of rock
Speaker 2: which rise abruptly from the surrounding wooden hills Wooden Hills
Speaker 2: in a popular tradition going back to the idea proposed
Speaker 2: to Hermann Hammelman in fifteen sixty four, the exeter Stein
Speaker 2: are identified as a sacred site of the Pagan Saxons
Speaker 2: and the location of Ermine soul Idol, reportedly destroyed by Charlemagne.
Speaker 2: There is, however, no archaeological evidence that would confirm the
Speaker 2: site's use during the Revelant relevant period, the stones were
Speaker 2: used as the site of a hermitage, hermitage hermitage okay,
Speaker 2: hermitage in the Middle Ages, and by at least the
Speaker 2: High Medieval period were the site of a Christian chapel.
Speaker 2: The extra Stein relief is a Medieval depiction of the
Speaker 2: Descent from the Cross. It remains controversial whether the site
Speaker 2: was already used for Christian worship in the eighth century
Speaker 2: to the early tenth centuries.
Speaker 3: Bro It is insane. This thing is just a geographical spot, right,
Speaker 3: and this is here's a description of the human made
Speaker 3: features and structures of it, because it's sandstone that was
Speaker 3: carved into don't get me wrong, but it predates the
Speaker 3: monks that used it, and there's a lot of debate
Speaker 3: as to why it was used.
Speaker 2: The Grottenfells contains a human made grotto of three chambers
Speaker 2: connected by passages. Above the entrance of the main chamber
Speaker 2: is a carving that, unlike the others, here is not
Speaker 2: as not a bass relief, but simply a cut in
Speaker 2: the stone in the form of what appears to be
Speaker 2: a winged creature. It appears to have been intended to
Speaker 2: receive a relief from some other material and then set
Speaker 2: into stone. The main chamber is eleven by three and
Speaker 2: a half meters, which is thirty six by eleven feet,
Speaker 2: with a ceiling of two and a half meters or
Speaker 2: eight feet two inches. The side chamber has the same
Speaker 2: height but is two by five meters or six and
Speaker 2: a half by sixteen and a half feet, and the
Speaker 2: main chamber is an inscription dated eleven fifteen like eleven
Speaker 2: hundred and fifteen, indicating that an altar was consecrated here.
Speaker 2: The third room is the so called Koupel Grotto, is
Speaker 2: reached from the main chamber and via a small passage
Speaker 2: from the outside. This room is quite narrow compared to
Speaker 2: the other two, and with its dome ceiling, has a
Speaker 2: more cave like appearance. Next to the external entrance is
Speaker 2: an alcove. Is a is another relief, much eroded. It
Speaker 2: shows a standing figure holding a stash in the left
Speaker 2: and a key in the right hand. It has been
Speaker 2: interpreted as a depiction of Saint Peter. Okay, so of
Speaker 2: course the Christians had to make it.
Speaker 3: Theirs exactly exactly, and that's the stuff that they've made.
Speaker 3: As far as the man made shit, right the monks
Speaker 3: came in, they carve some things on there. But pre historic.
Speaker 3: Now this is interesting and again in the Middle Ages
Speaker 3: it kind of had its feels on it. But the
Speaker 3: prehistory is kind of the stuff that they were digging into.
Speaker 2: Archaeological excavations have yielded some Upper Paleolithic stone tools dating
Speaker 2: to about ten seven hundred BC to ninety six hundred
Speaker 2: BC beneath the rock overhang on rock eight micro lifts. Oh,
Speaker 2: you don't hear about microlifts too much. Microlifts from the
Speaker 2: Arkinsburg culture, such as arrowheads or blades, were found. Evidence
Speaker 2: of fire sites was also found there. The area was
Speaker 2: frequented by nomadic groups who used the stones as temporary shelter.
Speaker 2: The site is associated with archaeo astronomical speculation. That's quite
Speaker 2: the mouthful.
Speaker 3: Use indeed, and you fucking nailed it.
Speaker 2: Down sometimes, but it says a circular hole above the
Speaker 2: altarstone in the Hohend Commer has been identified in this
Speaker 2: context as facing in the direction of sunrise at the
Speaker 2: time of the summer solstice. However, no archaeological evidence has
Speaker 2: been found that would substantiate use of the site between
Speaker 2: the end of the Upper Paleolithic and the Carolingian period.
Speaker 2: In the nineteen nineties, artifacts found in the excavation conducted
Speaker 2: by Julius Andre in nineteen thirty four nineteen thirty or
Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty four nineteen thirty five were analyzed. Attribution
Speaker 2: of objects was found. Either objects found was either to
Speaker 2: the Mesolithic Arensberg culture or the Medieval period, with evidence
Speaker 2: of occupation in the Bronze or Iron Age conspicuously absent.
Speaker 2: All the ceramic and metal items found were younger than
Speaker 2: the Carolingian period. Some stone artifacts were attributed to the
Speaker 2: Arensburg culture.
Speaker 3: Okay, now this site is fascinating in and of itself, Okay,
Speaker 3: I mean, this is this crazy structure carved into this
Speaker 3: mountain that has been used apparently as far back as
Speaker 3: somewhere between ten seven hundred BC and ninety six hundred BC.
Speaker 2: So what the Germans were saying that this was Atlantean.
Speaker 3: They are saying that this is further proof of their
Speaker 3: Aryan heritage, of these ancient race of all knowing magical beings.
Speaker 3: And they attributed this to be potentially the remains of
Speaker 3: what was once Atlantis. Like this is in the entirety
Speaker 3: of it, but this is proof that it existed, and
Speaker 3: it was up north, not down south, like everybody's been
Speaker 3: saying for forever.
Speaker 2: You know what I find ridiculous, dude, is the idea
Speaker 2: that your ancestors had the magic blood and they can
Speaker 2: do all these magical things, or they were Atlantean, so
Speaker 2: somehow that makes you a more important person. That's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: And I think that anybody that uses that kind of
Speaker 2: you know, ideology to say that because your ancestors were shit,
Speaker 2: that means that you are no. I mean, you're basically
Speaker 2: you're trying to call yourself basically a trust fund fucking
Speaker 2: baby at this point.
Speaker 3: Exactly that's exactly right. And they were just trying to
Speaker 3: find any claim to back that they were superior, right,
Speaker 3: and so they looked at any and all sources. They
Speaker 3: loved the things that ignacious Loyola Donnelly was saying, and
Speaker 3: he was referencing these other dudes that mentioned Atlantis, but
Speaker 3: they were saying it was like Mayan culture or the
Speaker 3: lost continent of Mew nowhere about Europe. That was never
Speaker 3: in the conversation for these people. But again, the Nazis
Speaker 3: took snippets they liked and they just ran with it.
Speaker 3: They find a couple of little things here and there,
Speaker 3: and they're like seeing clearly advanced race of Aran Atlanteans
Speaker 3: confirmed obviously, and they just took that ball and roll
Speaker 3: with it. And like I said, nobody really likes the
Speaker 3: fact that Hitler was bankrolling the beginning of European archaeology
Speaker 3: with stolen money. But at the same time, nobody's mad
Speaker 3: that they have the artifacts that they have now. So
Speaker 3: that's one of those things that you know, we really
Speaker 3: have to look at the time, place, and audience on
Speaker 3: some of their quote unquote findings.
Speaker 2: You know, I just think the idea of your blood
Speaker 2: or your skin color dating back to your ancestors gives
Speaker 2: you some kind of right to say that you're more important.
Speaker 2: I just find that absolutely retarded. I mean, I'm I
Speaker 2: think that you know that there are smart people in
Speaker 2: every culture and every heritage, of every skin color, of
Speaker 2: every fucking blood type. There are dumb people of every color,
Speaker 2: of every heritage, of every blood type and all that
Speaker 2: other shit. It's like, I don't know, dude, Like, and
Speaker 2: this is why I don't. I don't believe most history
Speaker 2: because history is a lie agreed upon and what the
Speaker 2: Germans were trying to do they were trying to agree
Speaker 2: upon a lie, whether it been an all out lie,
Speaker 2: a stretched upon lie, or you know, maybe there were
Speaker 2: remnants of truth. But I think I think that all
Speaker 2: history probably has some remnants of truth. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that all history is absolute malarchy, but I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just like, this is why you can't
Speaker 2: trust history, because the people who are in charge are
Speaker 2: going to make their own history and make themselves seem
Speaker 2: like they were you know, hard shit.
Speaker 3: You know, I couldn't agree more with you, Jonathan, And
Speaker 3: as a matter of fact, you kind of are making
Speaker 3: my point for me where I was about to go next,
Speaker 3: because even if you look at the earliest sources, as
Speaker 3: a matter of fact, even if we look at Plato himself,
Speaker 3: you understand that Plato was writing about something that happened
Speaker 3: nine thousand years before he was born. When he mentioned Atlantis.
Speaker 2: I don't know where the hell he got it from.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about that now, Jonathan, damn it, you're just
Speaker 3: on it today. Let's go, Hi, everybody.
Speaker 11: David Miano here from the World of Antiquity channel. You know,
Speaker 11: people have been fascinated by the story of Atlantis, told
Speaker 11: by the character Critius and Plato's books called the Critius
Speaker 11: and the Timaeus. At the start of the Tamais, Socrates
Speaker 11: summarizes the institutions of the ideal state that were delineated
Speaker 11: in an earlier work of Plato, The Republic, and he
Speaker 11: says he would like to hear a story which would
Speaker 11: bring out the character of his state by representing it
Speaker 11: in a major war. This prepares us for an invented fable,
Speaker 11: a story that celebrates the great victory of ancient, prehistoric
Speaker 11: Athens over the vast military might of Atlantis. So this
Speaker 11: tale is a narrative presentation of a philosophical theme. It
Speaker 11: is a myth, and myths are used quite a bit
Speaker 11: in Plato's writings. The myths in Plato's works are told
Speaker 11: by a speaker in a monologue, a narrative description intended
Speaker 11: to produce a pleasing psychological effect, and the speaker claims
Speaker 11: the story goes back to older oral sources. Plato likes
Speaker 11: to include stories that cannot be empirically verified. Their authority
Speaker 11: derives from tradition and so they're not subject to rational
Speaker 11: examination by the audience. You might wonder why he would
Speaker 11: use myths which are visual in nature instead of straight
Speaker 11: up argumentation. But that's because he wanted to appeal to
Speaker 11: a wider audience and make his philosophy more interesting. Plato,
Speaker 11: in fact, in his book The Republic, makes the assertion
Speaker 11: that all mythology is false. That is factually false, though
Speaker 11: still useful for teaching. We do not know the exact
Speaker 11: truth about events of the distant past, he writes. Plato
Speaker 11: doesn't believe that myth, either written or oral, can convey
Speaker 11: accurate knowledge of history. That's not what it's for. But
Speaker 11: why does Critias, the character who relays the story of Atlantis,
Speaker 11: keep repeating over and over that this story is not
Speaker 11: an invention but an accurate historical record. There's been more
Speaker 11: than one explanation for that. But it would seem that
Speaker 11: the combination of the completely fantastical elements in the story
Speaker 11: with his claims about historicity is a deliberate tension that
Speaker 11: Plato is using to satirize claims of this sort. But
Speaker 11: no one who once believed the tale should get down
Speaker 11: on themselves about it, Even some people in ancient times
Speaker 11: were fooled by it. I go into more detail on
Speaker 11: Plato's story of Atlantis and my Companion video to this one,
Speaker 11: so please check it out over on the World of
Speaker 11: Antiquity channel.
Speaker 3: I will give that shout out to the World of
Speaker 3: Antiquity channel. I do in fact like his content. But okay,
Speaker 3: So the truth of the matter is that the story
Speaker 3: of Atlantis was kind of mythologically but through legend and
Speaker 3: oral tradition, all of these things known about to Plato's generation.
Speaker 3: So when he wrote about these things, he said things
Speaker 3: that could not be empirically fact checked because everybody kind
Speaker 3: of just knew it was one of those things, right,
Speaker 3: It's like what goes down at the top of Mount Olympus,
Speaker 3: Like no one's going up to the top of it
Speaker 3: every day to go see if Zeus is moving. You
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. It's one of those things that, yes,
Speaker 3: it's true, it's just more in the realm of a
Speaker 3: legend than something along those lines. So apparently, when he
Speaker 3: wrote about Atlantis, it was done as a way to
Speaker 3: spurn on like cultural and national pride to ancient Greece,
Speaker 3: and he used these things in such a way to
Speaker 3: appeal to a wider audience. Basically, Plato was doing content
Speaker 3: creator shit.
Speaker 2: I mean to be fair. Plato was born in four
Speaker 2: twenty eight BC. Dude, uh huh, you know, like who's
Speaker 2: fact checking anything in that time?
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, But he's the source that everyone goes to. Well,
Speaker 3: it was real because he wrote about it. Like, let's
Speaker 3: keep in mind the time, the place, the era, and
Speaker 3: the audience that he was writing it to and about
Speaker 3: what what was his sources? All of his sources was
Speaker 3: about a story he was told as a child that
Speaker 3: he was recalling as an old man when he was
Speaker 3: asked to do this. And that story that he was
Speaker 3: told as a child allegedly goes back to ninety six
Speaker 3: hundred BC, literally over nine thousand years before he was born.
Speaker 3: You see the issue here?
Speaker 2: I do, okay, okay, And I'm just looking up to
Speaker 2: see what Plato what his beliefs were back in the day.
Speaker 3: Well, how about we hear it straight from the source, Jonathan,
Speaker 3: because up on the screen as of right now, I
Speaker 3: have Plato's account of Atlantis the audio book. Now, I
Speaker 3: don't want to play all of it. It is, like
Speaker 3: I said, thirty four and some change minutes long, and
Speaker 3: I really do think that it's worth listening to. It's
Speaker 3: pretty interesting. It's a boring read. It sounds like you're
Speaker 3: reading scripture almost But there was two excerpts that I
Speaker 3: actually really wanted to play because it's interesting. It's very
Speaker 3: interesting because when we hear a lot about it Lantis
Speaker 3: these days, there always seems to be some sort of
Speaker 3: connection to gold, am I right?
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I think so monitory.
Speaker 3: A sure, technologies for sure technologies and shit, But like
Speaker 3: they required gold for whatever their reason might be, whether
Speaker 3: that was to eat it, for worship, for electronics, who.
Speaker 2: Knows, who knows, putting it up in the air to
Speaker 2: reflect the sun.
Speaker 3: Away, whatever the case. Right, there's a million theories out there,
Speaker 3: who fucking knows, but there seems to be this big
Speaker 3: thing where Atlantians had a thing for gold. And that's why,
Speaker 3: and I've even said it before, that's why gold madness,
Speaker 3: gold fever is a real thing within humans, because the theory
Speaker 3: goes that humans were created to mine the gold for
Speaker 3: the Atlanteans, or at least I've heard that story a
Speaker 3: time or two. Right, So here is Plato's take on
Speaker 3: what Atlantians thought about gold, and then there's a couple
Speaker 3: of these that I'm gonna play. So let's go.
Speaker 2: I mean that whole dude, Atlantis looks pretty badass though.
Speaker 2: If that was a real place, it does like that
Speaker 2: does resemble the Rishad structure quite a bit, like this
Speaker 2: picture anyway that we're seeing. But I like, I want
Speaker 2: to believe that shit like this existed. But just because
Speaker 2: I want to, it doesn't necessarily mean that it did.
Speaker 2: You know, Like we all have this vision of what
Speaker 2: heaven would look like, you know, because certain people document it.
Speaker 2: Who's fact checking that, Who's coming back to tell us
Speaker 2: exactly what heaven looked like? You know, Like it's just
Speaker 2: certain people see it in dreams and shit.
Speaker 3: You know again, nine thousand years removed from the quote
Speaker 3: unquote real Atlantis to Plato talking about.
Speaker 2: It like they probably had fake and gay dinosaurs there.
Speaker 2: I mean, empathetically, it's very true.
Speaker 3: Who knows who even knows they had mammoths walking the
Speaker 3: earth when the pyramids at Geezer were being built, So
Speaker 3: I mean, who really knows?
Speaker 2: Okay, dude, I just I'm rewatching Game of Thrones and
Speaker 2: there is the one battle where the giants on the
Speaker 2: other side of the coming in and this fucking giant
Speaker 2: is riding a mammoth into war. It was like one
Speaker 2: of the most gangster video like one of the most
Speaker 2: awesome looking things that you could even imagine. I just
Speaker 2: Game of Thrones, so gangster, dude.
Speaker 3: I hear you. I agree, and I really do want
Speaker 3: to rewatch it. I tried, but it sucks to get
Speaker 3: through the first season when I know what's happening. But
Speaker 3: I also don't want to do it in injustice by skipping.
Speaker 3: So it's like, you know, that's exactly what I did.
Speaker 3: I skipped the first season. I know, I know, but
Speaker 3: there's so many plot points in there that really do matter,
Speaker 3: and I already.
Speaker 2: Know the story, I know, but it hurts me because
Speaker 2: I really adored ned Stark and I was so sad
Speaker 2: whenever he died, you know.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Oh, there's a lot of deaths that I've
Speaker 3: mourned on that show, for sure.
Speaker 2: The Red Wedding a lot of them. I know, dude,
Speaker 2: That Red Wedding was sick and Jeoffrey, I mean, I
Speaker 2: was happy about that.
Speaker 3: And who knew that The Red Wedding was based off
Speaker 3: of a real historical wedding that took place, Like yo,
Speaker 3: your boy, your boy who was writing them books? He
Speaker 3: he really did some history homework.
Speaker 2: George R. R. Martin.
Speaker 3: Indeed, now as we're talking about great literature in things.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Plato right the og of it. And
Speaker 3: again this is his take on Atlantis and how they
Speaker 3: thought about gold.
Speaker 12: Outside the acropolis and under the sides of the hill
Speaker 12: there dwelt artisans and such of the husbandmen that as
Speaker 12: were tilling around the ground. Near the warrior class dwelt
Speaker 12: by themselves around the temples of Athena and Hephaistus at
Speaker 12: the summit, which moreover they had enclosed with a single fence,
Speaker 12: like a garden of a single house. On the north side,
Speaker 12: they had dwellings in common, and had erected halls for
Speaker 12: dining in winter, and had all the buildings which they
Speaker 12: needed for their common life, besides temples. But there was
Speaker 12: no adorning of them with gold and silver, for they
Speaker 12: made no use of these for any purpose. They took
Speaker 12: a middle course between meanness and ostentation, and built modest
Speaker 12: houses in which they and their children's children grew old,
Speaker 12: and they handed them down to others, who are like
Speaker 12: themselves always the same. But in summer time they left
Speaker 12: their gardens and gymnasia and dining halls, And then the
Speaker 12: southern side of the hill was made use of by
Speaker 12: them for the same purpose. Where the acropolis is now,
Speaker 12: there was a fountain which was choked by the earthquake
Speaker 12: and has left only the few small streams which still
Speaker 12: exist in the vicinity. But in those days the fountain
Speaker 12: gave an abundant supply of water for all, and of
Speaker 12: suitable temperament in summer and in winter. This is how
Speaker 12: they dwelt, being the guardians of their own citizens and
Speaker 12: the leaders of the Hellenes, who were their willing followers.
Speaker 3: Okay, so right off the top, no gold, as a
Speaker 3: matter of fact, his words Plato quoting here, they had
Speaker 3: no use for it whatsoever. And those wells that he
Speaker 3: said like are still there to this day. This is
Speaker 3: another example of him using a reference that nobody could
Speaker 3: fact check. The rivers that are still running to this
Speaker 3: day are remnants of the ancient well still there to
Speaker 3: this day. Where, Homie, what are you talking about. Nobody's
Speaker 3: traveling to fact check his story. They're just like, oh, yes,
Speaker 3: of course, the wells we've heard about in our whole lives. Again,
Speaker 3: this was a legend, This was a myth. This was
Speaker 3: a common thing that most people knew about. Allegedly, he
Speaker 3: had been told this story as a child, probably around
Speaker 3: a campfire from some old man that was told it
Speaker 3: in a similar fashion. So again we have to question
Speaker 3: that source. But they had no use for gold, bro
Speaker 3: I mean, see, I.
Speaker 2: Didn't really hear too much about gold. Being Atlantis, I
Speaker 2: always hear about crystals.
Speaker 3: Actually, he doesn't really mention the crystals too much either.
Speaker 3: He says that they had developed a high spirituality and
Speaker 3: they had developed a high intellect to where they really
Speaker 3: didn't have need or want of material possessions. They just
Speaker 3: didn't they had it, they just didn't care about it. It
Speaker 3: was a thing. So again that was just that. But
Speaker 3: again this is one of those legends and myths quote
Speaker 3: unquote that Plato Plato's generation would have recognized and understood,
Speaker 3: even though this is retelling a story that again ninety
Speaker 3: six hundred BC, he was born in three hundred something BC.
Speaker 3: Now again one more time, let's hear an original source
Speaker 3: from the book itselfentis.
Speaker 12: And this he afterwards directed against our land for the
Speaker 12: following reasons, as tradition tentis and this he afterwards directed
Speaker 12: against our land for the following reasons, as tradition tells,
Speaker 12: for many generations as long as the divine nature lasted
Speaker 12: in them. They were obedient to the laws, and well
Speaker 12: affectioned towards the God who seed they were, For they
Speaker 12: possessed true and in every way great spirits, uniting gentleness
Speaker 12: with wisdom, in the various chances of life, and in
Speaker 12: the intercourse with one another. They despised everything but virtue,
Speaker 12: caring little for their present state of life, and thinking
Speaker 12: lightly of the possession of gold and other property, which
Speaker 12: seemed only a burden to them. Neither were they intoxicated
Speaker 12: by luxury, nor did wealth deprive them of their self control.
Speaker 12: But they were sober and saw clearly that all of
Speaker 12: these goods are increased by virtue and friendship with one another,
Speaker 12: whereas by too great regard and respect for them they
Speaker 12: are lost, and friendship with them. By such reflections, and
Speaker 12: by the continuance in them of a divine nature, the
Speaker 12: qualities which we have described grew and increased among them.
Speaker 12: But when the divine portion began to fade away and
Speaker 12: became diluted too often and too much with the mortal admixture,
Speaker 12: and the human nature got the upper hand. They then,
Speaker 12: being unable to bear their fortune, behaved unseemly and to
Speaker 12: him who had an eyed to see, grew visibly de based,
Speaker 12: for they were losing the fairest of their precious gifts.
Speaker 12: But to those who had no eye see the true happiness,
Speaker 12: they appeared glorious and blessed at the very time they
Speaker 12: were full of avarice and unrighteous power. Zeus, the god
Speaker 12: of gods, who rules according to law and is able
Speaker 12: to see into such things, perceiving that an honorable race
Speaker 12: was in a woeful plight, and wanting to inflict punishment
Speaker 12: on them that they might be chastened and improve, collected
Speaker 12: all the gods into the most holy habitation, which, being
Speaker 12: placed in the center of the world, beholds all created things.
Speaker 12: And when he had called them together, he spake as follows.
Speaker 12: The rest of the dialog of Critius has been lost.
Speaker 3: The rest of the dialogue of that conversation has been
Speaker 3: lost to history. However, here's we can infer just off
Speaker 3: of that real quick It is now understood why Plato
Speaker 3: made this Atlantis to seem like a utopia that was
Speaker 3: still under the reign of Zeus, because they were trying
Speaker 3: to prove that Hellenic culture could stem from Atlantis. This
Speaker 3: ancient mytholized legendized civilization of virtue who didn't want for
Speaker 3: gold and possessions, but just from sheer spirituality and just
Speaker 3: all things moral and good and wholesome, were able to
Speaker 3: live this abundant, utopic life. But as soon as they
Speaker 3: and again tell me if you've heard this story a
Speaker 3: time or two, am I right? As soon as they
Speaker 3: started getting little too big for their breeches and started
Speaker 3: giving into their human ways, the gods or a god
Speaker 3: had to get together to do something to stop them
Speaker 3: in some way. Now was mentioned before the earthquake. So
Speaker 3: Plato goes on and he mentions about an earthquake making
Speaker 3: Atlantis slide off into the sea. Now that is where
Speaker 3: it pretty much has been that entire time. Now, I
Speaker 3: think it's pretty fair to say that, according to Plato,
Speaker 3: the source of all sources. I might add, as far
Speaker 3: as Atlantis is concerned, everybody mentions Plato. So with that mind,
Speaker 3: I think it's pretty safe to say that the Alanteans
Speaker 3: didn't care about gold or riches. And in the past
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty years we have quote unquote sources
Speaker 3: that claim they needed gold. You can see why certain
Speaker 3: people would roll their eyes when Atlantis gets brought up
Speaker 3: because the true sources that are trying to dig in
Speaker 3: and find ancient civilizations that may have had connections and
Speaker 3: whatever are very little discussed. But a whole lot of
Speaker 3: other theories that are spun off just in the last
Speaker 3: century and a half two centuries arguably have taken everything
Speaker 3: else by storm. And that's kind of where we've gotten to.
Speaker 3: And that's why ignacious Donnelly was able to take this
Speaker 3: work twisted into his own ideologies because there wasn't much
Speaker 3: else to go on.
Speaker 13: Now.
Speaker 2: I just looked it up, and I know that many
Speaker 2: people claim that the whole idea comes from Plato, but
Speaker 2: I kind of want to give a little backstory as
Speaker 2: to where Plato got all this information in the first place.
Speaker 2: And I found it well kind of. It says that
Speaker 2: he heard this talking about Plato, he heard the story
Speaker 2: of Atlantis. This is on the History Channel, by the way,
Speaker 2: But it says that he heard the story of Atlantis
Speaker 2: from his grandfather, who had heard it from an Athenian
Speaker 2: statesman salone, who existed three hundred years before Plato's time,
Speaker 2: who had learned about it from an from an Egyptian
Speaker 2: priest who said that it happened nine thousand years before that,
Speaker 2: So like this is the most like hardcore game of
Speaker 2: telephone of all time. You're talking about you hear from
Speaker 2: an Athenian statesman. Well, you hear from your grandfather, who
Speaker 2: heard it from an Athenian statesman, who heard it from
Speaker 2: an Egyptian priest who said, yeah, that's a real story,
Speaker 2: but it was nine thousand fucking years ago, right, like right,
Speaker 2: you would have to imagine that if this stuff is absent,
Speaker 2: like if it's not documented and it's something that was
Speaker 2: just told like lingually, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: that something's going to be lost over the over the
Speaker 2: you know, just vast time.
Speaker 3: He heard it from his grandfather when he was nine
Speaker 3: years old. He wrote about this before he died as
Speaker 3: an old man, Okay, And his grandfather said he heard
Speaker 3: it from, said he heard it from, said he heard
Speaker 3: like yo, what And that is the source of all
Speaker 3: sources as far as Atlantis is concerned.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's it's something that could just be
Speaker 2: a story, Like I don't know why it has to
Speaker 2: be see, I'm I'm a little bit different. I don't
Speaker 2: really care for you know, historical certain like landmarks and stuff.
Speaker 13: Like that.
Speaker 2: I think the story in of itself is cool. Why
Speaker 2: does it have to be real? Why does it have
Speaker 2: to be fake? Why did people care? Because nobody's gonna
Speaker 2: find it? And if it does exist, well, if it
Speaker 2: did exist, it certainly doesn't anymore.
Speaker 3: Well that's the thing. You may not care, but the
Speaker 3: Nazi sure did, and a lot of people with a
Speaker 3: lot of power have looked for it very very heavily,
Speaker 3: and so a lot of people have cared.
Speaker 2: Dude, Well, I get it, but most people would probably care,
Speaker 2: like the people that are searching for it, because they
Speaker 2: want their names to go down in the annals of history, right, like,
Speaker 2: and it would be cool to be associated as like
Speaker 2: the guy who or the or the woman who have
Speaker 2: found Atlantis or the lost remains of Atlantis. But as
Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned, like, it's just a story, dude.
Speaker 3: But a lot of people have used it to further
Speaker 3: their political agendas and their racist ideologies. So real quick,
Speaker 3: let's read. Let's hear a little bit more here au
Speaker 3: Ton Shave Films. Again. I don't agree with his political stances,
Speaker 3: but he does a very good job of breaking all
Speaker 3: of this down. So, like, why do some people currently
Speaker 3: see this whole Atlantis theory as racist as we just
Speaker 3: heard from Plato. If you look at the earliest sources
Speaker 3: of Atlantis, there was no racism. There was cooperation in
Speaker 3: utopia community type situation. So when and how did it
Speaker 3: really really take this turn?
Speaker 4: The Antidiluvian World casts an incredibly wide net examining archaeology, genetics, anthropology, linguistics,
Speaker 4: you name it, and in yet another example of the
Speaker 4: human mind's amazing ability to detect patterns that aren't there,
Speaker 4: it makes the claim that not only did Atlantis exist,
Speaker 4: but it colonized most of the planets, and after its
Speaker 4: destruction in a flood about twelve thousand years ago, displaced
Speaker 4: Atlanteans went on to found just about every civilization of
Speaker 4: the ancient world. Ignatius Donnelly shaped pretty much every ancient
Speaker 4: history conspiracy theory out there. For example, The Chariots of
Speaker 4: the Gods, the book that kickstarted the whole Ancient Alien theory,
Speaker 4: takes many of its finer points from ones that Donnelly
Speaker 4: makes in the Antidiluvian World. Heinrich Himmler, too, owes Donnelly
Speaker 4: a debt of gratitude. Though Donnelly was progressive for his time.
Speaker 4: In many ways, his feverish scribblings about the Atlantean origin
Speaker 4: of human races found a cozy home in the racist
Speaker 4: pseudohistory promoted by Nazi archaeology. Donnelly wrote The Antidiluvian World
Speaker 4: and its spectacularly titled sequel Ragnarok The Age of Fire
Speaker 4: and Gravel, at the tail end of the nineteenth century,
Speaker 4: when the Western world was undergoing an intellectual and scientific upheaval.
Speaker 4: Modern medicine pretty much came about during this period. Electricity
Speaker 4: became an everyday part of life, and so did everything
Speaker 4: else they came with it, like telephones and the movies.
Speaker 4: But not everything was sunshine and puppies. It was the
Speaker 4: Gilded Age after all, and wealth inequality was truly staggering.
Speaker 4: Like we think we've got it bad now, But honestly,
Speaker 4: I think the Vanderbilts could teach elon musket thing or
Speaker 4: two about extravagance for God's sake. I mean, I've been
Speaker 4: to ancient Roman palaces that were less opulent than the
Speaker 4: robber Baron.
Speaker 6: Mansions in Newport, Rhode Island.
Speaker 4: The turn of the twentieth century was also perhaps the
Speaker 4: most intensely racist period in human history. Eugenics were widely
Speaker 4: implemented and embraced by mainstream science. European anti semites proposed
Speaker 4: theories of racial hygiene, and here in America anti miscegination
Speaker 4: laws designed to keep blacks and whites from intermarrying followed
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court case of Plus versus Ferguson, which kicked
Speaker 4: off five decades of legal segregation nationwide.
Speaker 6: Here in the good old Us of A.
Speaker 4: Of course, racial hygiene inspired those goose deepping morons we
Speaker 4: love to hate, but unfortunately its legacy has lasted a
Speaker 4: whole lot longer than that, and one of the ways
Speaker 4: that it manifests is through Ancient Aliens, Atlantis, and conspiracy
Speaker 4: theories about ancient civilizations. Much is made of the racist
Speaker 4: premise of the show Ancient Aliens, and for good reason.
Speaker 4: With the possible exception of Stonehenge, it never seems to
Speaker 4: argue that aliens were responsible for ancient European achievements, but
Speaker 4: it does seem to be obsessed with proving that extra
Speaker 4: terrestrials are behind all of the African, Asian and indigenous
Speaker 4: monuments and technologies throughout all of human history.
Speaker 6: There's a simple reason for this.
Speaker 4: Ancient Aliens is an intellectual descendant of the theory that
Speaker 4: I like to call ancient Aryans, which basically goes like this,
Speaker 4: All the great civilizations of the ancient world were founded
Speaker 4: by expat Northern Europeans, and these empires fell because these
Speaker 4: pure Aryan superman gave into the temptation of race mixing,
Speaker 4: which is a disgusting idea, but more importantly, it's very
Speaker 4: obviously untrue based on mountains of genetic and archaeological evidence.
Speaker 4: All these conspiracies are symbiotic and related. Whether it's Donnelly, Himmler, Hancock,
Speaker 4: or the History Channel. They may have differences in the details,
Speaker 4: they may wear different skins, some may come in a
Speaker 4: more pleasing shape than others, but make no mistake, they're
Speaker 4: all branches of the same wacky tree. So we're seeing
Speaker 4: as the reemergence of century old theories, often based in
Speaker 4: social Darwinism, conveniently repackaged for the twenty first century Internet.
Speaker 3: Okay, So, like I said, I don't necessarily agree with
Speaker 3: everything that the man says. However, as far as how
Speaker 3: and why people see the thought process of Atlantis to
Speaker 3: be a racist one, that is the narrative that they spin.
Speaker 2: Okay, I guess I never looked at it from that angle.
Speaker 2: I never really thought that people would suggest that because
Speaker 2: there are these crazy structures to not be able to
Speaker 2: give credit to possibly the people in those regions building.
Speaker 3: Them, which exactly what it is to be fair.
Speaker 2: I mean, I get that angle, But I also it's like,
Speaker 2: do the people of Giza do they know exactly where
Speaker 2: the pyramids come from? Or are they just as distraught
Speaker 2: as everybody else in the world.
Speaker 3: Know one has an answer to those That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Like they were built, how they moved the rocks and
Speaker 3: cut the stones, Yeah, they have answers for that, but
Speaker 3: how they actually constructed them as perfectly as they did
Speaker 3: lined up with the stars on the spot, with the
Speaker 3: magnetics and that, like, no one knows that. Now the
Speaker 3: other pyramids we know how they built, they have record.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But also it's it's not always that the European shit.
Speaker 2: There are certain European like structures and monuments that are
Speaker 2: not just automatically assumed to be built by Europeans. I
Speaker 2: mean stone Hinge.
Speaker 3: That's what he's saying. Except for Stone Hinge, like that's
Speaker 3: one that they do bring up. But like other than
Speaker 3: that name a European thing that they mentioned. I mean,
Speaker 3: all the crop circles are usually over in Europe, but
Speaker 3: that's not ancient, that's not ancient civilization talk.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess just Europe doesn't have as much cool
Speaker 2: shit as Africa does. I mean, I mean, that's the
Speaker 2: way I look at it, like Africa has. I mean
Speaker 2: a lot of people believe that that's where first man
Speaker 2: came from was from, right, and so you know, how
Speaker 2: are we gonna be able to I don't know. I
Speaker 2: see both angles on this, but I'm not what he's.
Speaker 3: Saying is that aside from ancient aliens. Right when donaldy
Speaker 3: was writing this, I don't know if Donnelly believed in
Speaker 3: extraterrestrial life, I don't know, but let's just assume that
Speaker 3: he didn't, because most people didn't at that time, right,
Speaker 3: So I mean maybe they thought about it and had conversation,
Speaker 3: but no one gave that like deep thought and wrote
Speaker 3: about it, not often, not until the twenties, honestly.
Speaker 2: I mean, is there any structure over in Europe outside
Speaker 2: of Stonehenge that is like.
Speaker 3: Pre dates history, Well, like we just brought up the
Speaker 3: one in Germany that honestly, I didn't know about before
Speaker 3: we started this episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, well and answerstein whatever. And they're the ones that
Speaker 2: are attesting that it well, not not that he.
Speaker 3: Is Atlantis exactly Atlantis. I mean, they're saying that it
Speaker 3: was Atlantis exactly. So Donnelly's not saying that everything came
Speaker 3: from Aliens. He's saying that it all came from Atlantis,
Speaker 3: who clearly were white because they were where Greece came from,
Speaker 3: and Greece is where Rome came from, and Rome is
Speaker 3: where the Catholic Church came from, and that's where civilization
Speaker 3: bah bah bah bu up. But it goes down this
Speaker 3: whole spiral. Hmm.
Speaker 2: It's interesting.
Speaker 3: So keep in mind he saw about Atlantis colonizing the world.
Speaker 3: Colonialism is typically associated with racism because that's how it's
Speaker 3: been done in the past. It's not exclusively you can
Speaker 3: have a colony with people that look just like you.
Speaker 3: That's a thing that has happened. Look at how America was,
Speaker 3: the Thirteen Colonies of Britain, just throwing it out, But
Speaker 3: typically colonialism is rooted in racism and at the very
Speaker 3: least inequality. So basically what he is saying is that
Speaker 3: the ignacious Donnelle's story of Atlantis Onward through the Future,
Speaker 3: or anybody who references Donnelly is referencing a bad source,
Speaker 3: and that I can at least agree with, because Donnelly
Speaker 3: wasn't a source. He never traveled to any of these places.
Speaker 3: He never you know, it's not listed that he was
Speaker 3: some sort of a big fan of the Greek classics
Speaker 3: and like was a diehard Plato fan. He wrote a
Speaker 3: book about how Shakespeare wasn't a real dude, and people
Speaker 3: have gone to take that as a real shit. I'm
Speaker 3: just saying, there's there's all kinds of things that he
Speaker 3: wrote down the same way that another guy wrote down
Speaker 3: a bunch of shit, And there's some cults that have
Speaker 3: started after that, the same way that a guy wrote
Speaker 3: down some shit in the Nation of Islam has started.
Speaker 3: There's tons of this.
Speaker 2: But do you necessarily do you necessarily throw everything like
Speaker 2: the baby out with the bathwater. Whenever you discredit somebody
Speaker 2: for one thing that they said or a couple of
Speaker 2: things that they said, does that automatically discredit every single
Speaker 2: thing that they said.
Speaker 3: When you take the entire literary work instead of just
Speaker 3: the small excerpts of things that people take to clearly
Speaker 3: mean dot dot dot instead of all the negative in
Speaker 3: the All right, if the book is over, half bad shit.
Speaker 2: Is it because he only referenced one part.
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, he I only played a small part
Speaker 3: like it's not good.
Speaker 2: It's all throughout like that kind of shit. Savages and what.
Speaker 3: He goes back and forth between calling certain groups savages,
Speaker 3: but then like towards the end of the book, he
Speaker 3: pretty much just said fuck it and just was going off.
Speaker 3: Keep in mind, he was known to be a foul
Speaker 3: mouthed orator when he was in Congress, when he was
Speaker 3: rolling with the big timers here, when DC was getting
Speaker 3: into bed with big business and he got bribed with
Speaker 3: stock bonds for a railroad company, right all that going down,
Speaker 3: He was known as the guy that you didn't want
Speaker 3: on the mic because he would cuss too much. So
Speaker 3: whenever he decided to start saying fuck it towards certain
Speaker 3: groups of unevolved people, yeah no, he went off the
Speaker 3: rails deep. Then the Ragnarok book pretty much played off
Speaker 3: of that vibe moving forward. His last book that was
Speaker 3: mentioned was the whole Freaky Friday Black White Swap thing,
Speaker 3: which was littered with it and like that was the intent,
Speaker 3: but also, like bro, I looked at a small excerpt
Speaker 3: of it, I'm gonna I'm just gonna spare you the details.
Speaker 3: It's not like, oh, there's tones of the word in
Speaker 3: word and that. No, no, it's not it's not good
Speaker 3: at all. So and I'm not saying that Donnelly throw
Speaker 3: him out. And yes, anybody who's sourcing him can throw
Speaker 3: the baby out with the bathwater, because they're referencing a
Speaker 3: dude who had no information and made this all up
Speaker 3: one day and wrote it down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that checks out. I could say that now I
Speaker 2: have referenced Atlantis a lot, and I never heard this
Speaker 2: guy's name. That's not to say that anything that I
Speaker 2: know about it Lantis doesn't come from that. I'm sure
Speaker 2: that a lot of it does source from that. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, if the guy was a piece
Speaker 2: of shit, I guess we should probably stop referencing, you know,
Speaker 2: what he was saying.
Speaker 3: Then now there are, like I said, other mentions of
Speaker 3: Atlantis before the shit hit. Now we can believe or
Speaker 3: not believe that the priest and the photographer found some
Speaker 3: real connections between the hieroglyphs and the pyramid structures and
Speaker 3: the fact that the Aztec Maine city was built in
Speaker 3: rings like that in the middle of a pond, very
Speaker 3: similar to the rings of Atlantis, and like you're drawing
Speaker 3: these connections, like Okay, that's a conversation I want to have.
Speaker 3: That's the shit that's unexplainable to like hold on. Your
Speaker 3: boy may have been onto something, maybe in the wrong direction,
Speaker 3: but like, let's talk. Then you look at you can't
Speaker 3: even use Plato as a source, even though everyone does.
Speaker 3: No one understands the distance of time between the quote
Speaker 3: unquote true events and when Plato is speaks them. But again,
Speaker 3: this is why context is so important when reading history.
Speaker 3: The same way that the story of Achilles and Odysseus,
Speaker 3: the Iliad and the Odyssey, all of that was a
Speaker 3: lead up to the Illusion. If I'm not mistaken, that
Speaker 3: was the name of it, or the Illyrian, which is
Speaker 3: basically the story of Once Troy fell homeboy took the
Speaker 3: sword of Troy and founded what we now know is Rome.
Speaker 3: Because his sons became Romulus and Remus, or if not
Speaker 3: his sons a part of the party that escaped from
Speaker 3: the city of Troy. That was the connection to all
Speaker 3: of the ancients and the gods and everything that the
Speaker 3: Romans clung to. The Greeks had something along these lines,
Speaker 3: and before them they had it. Before them, they had it.
Speaker 3: And I mean, the game of telephone goes on and on.
Speaker 3: So is Atlantis racist? No? Now, I don't believe that
Speaker 3: Atlantis the thought process of Atlantis being a place of
Speaker 3: ancient history that has been lost to time. No, I
Speaker 3: do not believe that this is a racist hill to
Speaker 3: die on by any means. However, we need to make
Speaker 3: sure that we are not sourcing our information and not you.
Speaker 3: And I I'm saying to all the cult members out
Speaker 3: there and to everybody listening at this is your first
Speaker 3: time listening, you're like, bro, what like, hear me out?
Speaker 3: Hear me out. It is on us at this time
Speaker 3: to do our own research. We are in the age
Speaker 3: of information. This whole episode spun off because I was
Speaker 3: watching the Disney movie with my children and they asked
Speaker 3: me a question and I clicked on one thing that
Speaker 3: led me to another thing that led me to all
Speaker 3: of this. I'm telling y'all, we are in a crazy
Speaker 3: time in human history where we literally can find out
Speaker 3: anything we want in a moment's notice. However, that also
Speaker 3: means that we can find a bunch of incorrect information instantly,
Speaker 3: and as a matter of fact, there is more incorrect
Speaker 3: information circulating than correct information. It is on us to
Speaker 3: test the source and do your due diligence, find the context,
Speaker 3: find the real meaning behind everything. If you're taking the
Speaker 3: story as some sort of a moral lesson, and you're
Speaker 3: taking it as a myth, and you're taking it as
Speaker 3: something that you can apply to your life, and maybe
Speaker 3: you're made better for doing so, Gucci, good for you.
Speaker 3: That's wonderful if you can read to Kill a Mockingbird
Speaker 3: and take from that a positive message in some way,
Speaker 3: shape or form. Brother, good on you. I am happy
Speaker 3: whoever's listening.
Speaker 2: That book was fucking weak, by the way, I.
Speaker 3: Remember really a fifteen year old, so I mean, I
Speaker 3: get it. But still it did one of them awards
Speaker 3: and was a best seller. Girl didn't even graduate high
Speaker 3: school was killing it. But whatever.
Speaker 2: I mean, good for her, but not my flavor.
Speaker 3: But it's a slow reader.
Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, I think that the point that you're
Speaker 2: trying to make is is that if you're somebody who
Speaker 2: absolutely believes that Atlantis was a real place. That's cool,
Speaker 2: But just understand that if you if you're really trying
Speaker 2: to kind of like fact check yourself, then you would
Speaker 2: have to go back and read, you know, your boy story,
Speaker 2: so that that way your image isn't pulling from this
Speaker 2: guy's image of what Atlantis was.
Speaker 3: Then they got these guys that are writing about hybrid
Speaker 3: diffusion in the sixties, and that whole story spun off
Speaker 3: and that had claims to Atlantis. Then you had your boy,
Speaker 3: doctor Doriel writing about some other shit that took place
Speaker 3: from Atlantis, and there was connections that were drawn because
Speaker 3: he had gone to Egypt and found it. And it's like, no,
Speaker 3: that's not, like, what are you talking about. The earliest
Speaker 3: source that everybody is mentioning was not necessarily making it up.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, Plato didn't even know anything
Speaker 3: about Atlantis. He had heard something from a guy who
Speaker 3: he felt was honest, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3: So if you want to believe that Atlantis might have
Speaker 3: been a real place, that's fine. There is almost no
Speaker 3: evidence at all whatsoever that can be truly sourced or
Speaker 3: even slightly fact checked with any kind of cipher or sift.
Speaker 3: Excuse me to show that there ever was, And as
Speaker 3: a matter of fact, there's been more than a few
Speaker 3: archaeological experts who have come forward and said that there
Speaker 3: is literally no signs of advanced life outside of a
Speaker 3: few small hunter gatherer civilizations and maybe some medium sized
Speaker 3: villages prior to ancient Egypt that we know of.
Speaker 2: Depending on what you call technology. We got to make a.
Speaker 3: Stone knife, I call technology. That is something that I
Speaker 3: cannot recreate. Although the information is out there and I
Speaker 3: could get into flint napping right now. It's a real
Speaker 3: thing that has lost technology.
Speaker 2: To Jacob, like Jonathan, the pyramids are technology, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Depending on how they were used, they
Speaker 2: could have been technology. I mean, it could have just
Speaker 2: been a temple for all we know.
Speaker 3: Same with stone Hinge, right, we don't know. We think
Speaker 3: it was a calendar and a place of worship. Bro
Speaker 3: that might have been we don't know. We have no idea.
Speaker 3: So I'm not saying that there's no chance that Atlantis
Speaker 3: was real. I personally believe that there is probably something
Speaker 3: that predates. There's probably a kernel of truth to what
Speaker 3: Plato was talking about, or that his grandfather told him.
Speaker 3: I believe that one hundred percent and I really hope
Speaker 3: that we discover it one day. And as a matter
Speaker 3: of fact, the more I look into that site in Spain,
Speaker 3: the more excited I get. But neither here nor there.
Speaker 3: And then you also look at the fact that we
Speaker 3: had that giant crystal under the mud at the mouth
Speaker 3: of the Mississippi River, which has its own crazy story
Speaker 3: that we don't know because we can't get to it
Speaker 3: to explore it. So look, I'm not saying there's no chance.
Speaker 3: I'm saying that the story that we have been told
Speaker 3: our entire lives is completely based in fallacy, and we
Speaker 3: need to be careful with the sources we use to
Speaker 3: make sure that they were not using that platform and
Speaker 3: the source that we'd be calling itself to push horrible agendas.
Speaker 3: That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Good cult members, Yeah, I mean, if it's founded in
Speaker 2: racist bigotry or whatever, you know, it's.
Speaker 3: Like throw it out, baby in bathwater.
Speaker 2: Can't do it, can't do it. Sorry, you know.
Speaker 3: I I was I was hoping with an a legend
Speaker 3: that is like spurned on the culture and gave a
Speaker 3: story and a moral and then like hey, all right,
Speaker 3: I mean, look if both coming from Atlantis is a
Speaker 3: story that you can pull some some solid wisdom from
Speaker 3: then use it as that. If you want to talk
Speaker 3: about how everybody from Atlantis was white with blonde hair
Speaker 3: and blue eyes and they're the ultimate rate use for
Speaker 3: gold whatsoever, it just seems ridiculous. So anyway, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean this was this was pretty cool.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 2: I think that there's there's just as much of a
Speaker 2: possibility that Atlantians existed nine thousand years ago as much
Speaker 2: as there is every humanoid being a bigfoot nine thousand
Speaker 2: years ago, Like they're both equally possible because nobody has
Speaker 2: a fucking clue what was going on nine thousand years ago.
Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, And I did like the fact that, like
Speaker 3: even Plato is mentioning these things that couldn't be fact
Speaker 3: checked as a way to be cryptic. I'm like, look
Speaker 3: at this TikToker from way back when to just hitting
Speaker 3: it at the information real quick and then dipping out
Speaker 3: before anybody could question it. And I'm not saying it
Speaker 3: to shit on him. I'm saying it like he said
Speaker 3: it as a story and storytelling is cool as hell,
Speaker 3: and there's an artistry to it, so like I'm giving props,
Speaker 3: you know what, I mean.
Speaker 2: Like, so, I guess my My last question is is
Speaker 2: that whenever Plato is writing his whole story about Atlantis,
Speaker 2: is he writing it as if it is fact or
Speaker 2: is he filling in some blanks, you know, to try
Speaker 2: and make the story sound cooler.
Speaker 3: He was filling in blanks with things that his grandfather
Speaker 3: told him.
Speaker 2: But that's that's understood. Or is do you think that
Speaker 2: he believed every word that he wrote? Is my question.
Speaker 3: He literally believed that all mythology was stupid and that
Speaker 3: all myths were based in bullshit. Well, there we go,
Speaker 3: that's the myth of Atlantis and not like Bro, he
Speaker 3: didn't fucking believe.
Speaker 2: In shit right right, And I actually looked it up earlier.
Speaker 2: He was actually into paganism so.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean he was Greek, Like he referenced Zeus
Speaker 3: being the cause of Atlantis slipping off into the sea,
Speaker 3: so like, he absolutely worshiped the gods. Yes, but he
Speaker 3: even saw that as a fallacy. It's unprovable, so he
Speaker 3: used that to his advantage. Like he wasn't dumb.
Speaker 2: He well in that I agree with him. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that you can use certain gods and goddesses and
Speaker 2: stuff like that to your subconscious advantage whenever your meditation,
Speaker 2: YadA YadA. But I don't know a lot of It's
Speaker 2: just myth, you know, no doubt. But anyway, yeah, this
Speaker 2: was fun.
Speaker 13: I was.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed this one. There was a lot of hard words,
Speaker 2: but I liked it.
Speaker 3: I didn't think there'd be so many French words when
Speaker 3: I started digging and then I saw that, I was like, whoa, whoa, Okay,
Speaker 3: France has weighed in on Atlantis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a whole thing on Plato was probably
Speaker 2: one of those guys that was Uh did he ever
Speaker 2: get a statue made of himself?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know of himself. I mean, you
Speaker 3: know people wrote about him after his death.
Speaker 2: And all, not of himself. But you know what I mean, like,
Speaker 2: did anybody ever erect That's funny.
Speaker 3: There's a there's paintings of him. I know Michael Angelo
Speaker 3: and if I'm not mistaken, Leonard da Vinci both did
Speaker 3: paintings of him. But I mean that was in the
Speaker 3: Renaissance and we're talking about he lived in three hundred BC,
Speaker 3: so it's like a right.
Speaker 2: The only reason I say that is is like if
Speaker 2: he was a smart guy back then maybe he had
Speaker 2: a little we wii.
Speaker 3: Oh that's right, because big Dick's through seen as a
Speaker 3: sign of stupidity. So it's very possible that your boy was, uh,
Speaker 3: well hung like a well I was, they hung like
Speaker 3: a field mouse. But you know that's per body size
Speaker 3: that's different like our for body weight, like.
Speaker 2: Our boy Bo Diggles, who we hope to eventually get
Speaker 2: back on here, also known as the two inter pincher.
Speaker 3: Indeed, it's very possible Plato was a two inchre pincher dude,
Speaker 3: one hundred percent very well possible. Dear cult members, if
Speaker 3: you have enjoyed this episode, you thought it was thought provoking,
Speaker 3: or hey, you just want to let your two cents
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Speaker 3: This episode has been fascinating, and I think it kind
Speaker 3: of debunked some things and also solidified other conspiracies. Here's
Speaker 3: the deal. The more activity all of our algorithm see
Speaker 3: across all of our listening platforms, the more we get
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Speaker 3: cult members like the rest of you, fine laies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3: Especially this episode, y'all share us five stars. While you're
Speaker 3: at it, go check out Meta Mysteries. Give him the love,
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Speaker 3: of things. We thank you for everybody's already gone and
Speaker 3: done so.
Speaker 2: And with that being said, this was another beautiful episode
Speaker 2: of the Cult of Conspiracy. And my name is Jonathan Jacob.
Speaker 2: And there's one very important, etremely the vital piece of
Speaker 2: information we need you to learn just as soon as
Speaker 2: humanly possible.
Speaker 13: So screen to speaks to see so to speak
Speaker 6: S