1 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,039 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle's senior elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:27,879 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,199 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:31,239 --> 00:00:35,799 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 6 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,039 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,799 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:44,359 --> 00:00:49,280 Our guest today is former CIAH and Kevin Shipp. Kevin 9 00:00:49,399 --> 00:00:52,479 joins us to discuss his new book, Twilight of the 10 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:57,960 Shadow Government, How Transparency Will Kill the Deep State. The 11 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:03,119 book offers an unpressedented look into the inner workings of 12 00:01:03,119 --> 00:01:07,159 the CIA, revealing how the agency has strayed from its 13 00:01:07,159 --> 00:01:10,840 original mission and the links it will go to silence 14 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,719 those who dare to speak out. Kevin, thank you so 15 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,640 much for joining us on this edition of the Federalist 16 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:24,120 Radio Hour. Absolutely, let's begin where we are today, just 17 00:01:24,159 --> 00:01:27,959 a couple of weeks before this election. We'll get into 18 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,359 your experiences over time, the history that is well laid 19 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,439 out in this new book of the CIA, the Central 20 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:40,760 Intelligence Agency. But where are we at? How much should 21 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:47,879 our listeners be concerned about the CIA's presence in this 22 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,120 election and the CIA putting its thumb on the scales 23 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:53,480 of this election. 24 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,959 Speaker 2: That's a great question. Yes, recent article, excuse me, I 25 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,599 wrote it in The Blaze about to CI's influence on elections, 26 00:02:01,599 --> 00:02:04,439 and I go through several presidents in several occasions where 27 00:02:04,439 --> 00:02:07,560 the CI influenced the election. And a clear example in 28 00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:12,439 this election is the CI's opposition to Donald Trump and 29 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,919 their propaganda towards Kamala Harris. And if you remember the 30 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,719 Hunter Biden laptop issue, forty two senior CIA officials came 31 00:02:22,759 --> 00:02:25,560 out and said that that was Russian disinformation when they 32 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,800 knew better, claimed it was a Russian information. Turns out 33 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,199 it was not at all. It was totally accurate. Well, 34 00:02:31,439 --> 00:02:35,000 those forty two senior CI officers, Mike Morrell at the 35 00:02:35,039 --> 00:02:38,280 top of the list, those forty two SEA officers have 36 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,479 come out again and stated that Donald Trump is a 37 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,479 threat to our government, a threat to our democracy, and 38 00:02:44,599 --> 00:02:47,919 a danger to America, in other words, leading people to 39 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,840 Kamala Harris. There are seven hundred and forty one other 40 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,000 national security officials that have come out and signed a 41 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,680 similar agreement saying that Donald Trump must be kept out 42 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,719 of the White House. So you want to talk about 43 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,479 direct influence on a presidential election, They've got it right 44 00:03:03,479 --> 00:03:04,319 there in our face. 45 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: Now, do you at any level suspect that's what it 46 00:03:11,159 --> 00:03:15,159 would be? Right now? You have multiple sources still withinside 47 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,319 the CIA to serve there for a long time, you know, 48 00:03:18,439 --> 00:03:22,479 the folks, some of them still still involved, you served with. 49 00:03:23,439 --> 00:03:26,560 Do you have any suspicion at all that the CIA 50 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,639 had something to do with what we know to be 51 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,719 the two assassination attempts on the former president's life. 52 00:03:36,199 --> 00:03:38,759 Speaker 2: You know, I've done quite an analysis on that. We 53 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,319 put a final chapter in the book on the first 54 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,919 assassination attempted Butler on Donald Trump and after my and 55 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,639 I just did an objective analysis and I try to 56 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,560 stay as objective as I can get. And in that case, 57 00:03:52,479 --> 00:03:57,719 it was just an unbelievable lack of preparation and outright 58 00:03:57,879 --> 00:04:01,199 negligence on the part of the Secret Service that allowed 59 00:04:01,319 --> 00:04:05,840 Butler Pennsylvania to happen. But in my this is just 60 00:04:05,919 --> 00:04:08,960 my humble opinion, it was because they put Donald Trump 61 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,560 at such a low priority of what they wanted that 62 00:04:12,599 --> 00:04:15,639 they gave him bare bones protection. And we saw those 63 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,360 poor gals on the video half his height and overweight, 64 00:04:19,439 --> 00:04:21,759 trying to figure out how to protect and that were 65 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,759 placed there by Department of Homeland Security and had no 66 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,600 protective operations training at all. You can see the low 67 00:04:29,639 --> 00:04:32,199 priority that the Secret Service put on Donald Trump. I 68 00:04:32,199 --> 00:04:35,720 think that's the culpability part there is that they just 69 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,319 didn't try to. They didn't even do Secret Service Protocol 70 00:04:39,519 --> 00:04:42,600 one oh one on Donald Trump that day, and the 71 00:04:42,639 --> 00:04:46,079 negligence and the oversights were just mind blowing. 72 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: And I ask you this question as I'm curious, and 73 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:55,240 you know, you continue to study the events surrounding this election, 74 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,800 the Deep States involvement. You know, you have a young, 75 00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:05,319 very clearly disturbed man in the would be assassin, the 76 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:10,680 murderer in Butler, Pennsylvania in July at the Trump rally. 77 00:05:11,519 --> 00:05:18,839 He has access, He has things that would be difficult 78 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,360 for a man, a young man in his situation his 79 00:05:22,439 --> 00:05:26,759 station in life, to get. It's something that people are 80 00:05:26,759 --> 00:05:29,160 talking about, and of course the usual suspects and the 81 00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:35,439 accomplished media will label individuals as conspiracy theorists for even 82 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,399 mentioning the fact that this guy was very seemingly well 83 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,959 connected and had very interesting connections that we have seen 84 00:05:46,759 --> 00:05:49,639 shown over time, not necessarily in this case, but shown 85 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,279 over time the CIA's involvement in other countries with those 86 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,839 kinds of connections, if you will, does it give you pause? 87 00:05:58,439 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: Well, actually, points we make on that chapter of that 88 00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:06,879 particular Trump assassination attempt, we ask those very same questions 89 00:06:06,879 --> 00:06:08,959 because at the time of the writing, we were going 90 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:11,120 on the information we had, and it still pretty much 91 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,839 seems to be the case. But we asked several very 92 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,360 important questions that need to be answered, one of which is, 93 00:06:16,879 --> 00:06:21,759 this young kid had three encrypted overseas accounts that we 94 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,079 have not heard anybody at least looking into or finding 95 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:27,879 out what in the world those things are all about. 96 00:06:28,079 --> 00:06:31,000 And there are other questions about that attempt that have 97 00:06:31,079 --> 00:06:32,839 not been answered. We list all of those in the 98 00:06:32,879 --> 00:06:35,759 book as unanswered questions that need to be investigated, and 99 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,319 todate that I know of, there hasn't been any investigation 100 00:06:38,399 --> 00:06:40,199 of those, and that's what we're calling for in the book, 101 00:06:40,199 --> 00:06:42,000 exactly the things you just mentioned. 102 00:06:42,439 --> 00:06:47,639 Speaker 1: Interesting. Interesting, And before we depart from this portion of 103 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,920 the conversation, which will indeed come up again, because past 104 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,560 is prologue and what we've seen with the CIA is 105 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,560 in the past is what we're seeing, as you write 106 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,720 in the book today. But with this election, we're not 107 00:07:03,879 --> 00:07:08,720 only seeing all of those former CIA deep state officials 108 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,120 coming out and talking about what a danger Donald Trump 109 00:07:13,279 --> 00:07:18,680 is to democracy. We are also seeing a corporate media, 110 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,319 as I like to call them, the accomplice media, that 111 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,519 is going right along as they have done for several 112 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,399 years in this country. But the pace has quickened, of course, 113 00:07:32,879 --> 00:07:38,360 and that narrative has been absolutely shaped by an irresponsible 114 00:07:38,639 --> 00:07:43,600 at the very least corporate media to a complicit corporate media. 115 00:07:43,639 --> 00:07:45,600 Your thoughts on that, Yeah, I. 116 00:07:45,519 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 2: Think it is a complicit corporate media. And a lot 117 00:07:48,399 --> 00:07:52,000 of people are under the impression that CIA Operation Mockingbird 118 00:07:52,519 --> 00:07:55,680 control of the major US news media has gone away. Well, 119 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,240 it has not gone away. It has just morphed into 120 00:07:58,279 --> 00:08:01,240 something more complex. As a matter of fact, we know 121 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,519 now that the Washington Post, the Associated Pression, four of 122 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,360 the major social media companies sign an agreement with the 123 00:08:08,399 --> 00:08:11,399 CIA that they would not report on some things and 124 00:08:11,439 --> 00:08:15,199 they would censor other things on the behalf for the 125 00:08:15,199 --> 00:08:17,600 sake of the CI actually sign an agreement to do that. 126 00:08:17,639 --> 00:08:21,319 This is our news media, and I'm called Washington Post, 127 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,839 The Washington Post Mockingbird number one. Since I started investigating 128 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,959 this years ago, and they're continuing to do it today. 129 00:08:28,959 --> 00:08:32,279 They are being fed with the CI wants them to report, 130 00:08:32,399 --> 00:08:34,960 and any journalists, if you remember Gary Webb who wound 131 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:36,960 up with two bullets in his head in a hotel room, 132 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,480 any journalist that dares to question the CI are actually investigated. 133 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,120 They know that from their editors on down, even their 134 00:08:45,159 --> 00:08:47,879 career will be destroyed and it'll be the end of them, 135 00:08:47,879 --> 00:08:49,320 so they just don't go there. 136 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,919 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit more about that project Mockingbird. 137 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,519 As you know you note in the book, it is 138 00:08:58,759 --> 00:09:03,200 the CIA's new efforts with the Center for Global Engagement 139 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:09,080 and Big Tech interference. That is what we're seeing these days. 140 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:15,399 But from mocking Bird to this latest initiative, let's talk 141 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,480 about that in terms of what you know about mocking Bird, 142 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,600 what you know now about what is happening within the CIA. 143 00:09:24,639 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: Yes, the CIA created an arm of the CIA called 144 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,799 in q tel, and it is how the CIA pierces 145 00:09:32,919 --> 00:09:37,080 domestic companies inside the United States, and in qtel has 146 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:42,080 given over three hundred contracts. The Silicon Valley companies given 147 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,720 them a seed funding and startup money to start their companies, 148 00:09:46,919 --> 00:09:51,240 and also if there's any classified work involved, they sign 149 00:09:51,279 --> 00:09:54,039 a CIA secrecy agreement where they're bound for life. This 150 00:09:54,159 --> 00:09:56,480 gives me. Probably the most prominent one of those is 151 00:09:56,519 --> 00:10:00,679 a company called Taoluneer, and the Volunteer was a established 152 00:10:00,879 --> 00:10:04,159 as the replacement for the Total Information Awareness Program of 153 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,240 the Pentagon. They conger shot down because it was gathering 154 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,639 information on all Americans for threat assessment purposes. Well, TIA 155 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,320 was shot down, so the CI, as it usually did, 156 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,559 build to cover up using into in q tel and 157 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,360 funded the startup of Pallunteer, provided CIA analysts to help 158 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,559 build it. And now Pollunteer is collecting data on all 159 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:30,559 Americans for threat profile information. You remember the spying on 160 00:10:30,639 --> 00:10:33,840 the Catholics, and now they're spying on certain patio groups 161 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,360 and other things as possible threats. That information is coming 162 00:10:37,399 --> 00:10:41,559 out of CIA cutouts like Palneer gathering this information and 163 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,960 then they decide who's a threat and who's not. That's 164 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,879 going on right now, and that is what the CI 165 00:10:47,039 --> 00:10:49,759 has done and they've done with in q tel is 166 00:10:49,799 --> 00:10:53,000 they've taken spy into private companies so that they can 167 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,600 have plausible deniability and saying, Oh, the CI is not 168 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,720 spying on the American people know they're not because Polunteer 169 00:10:58,799 --> 00:11:00,159 is doing it for them. 170 00:11:01,039 --> 00:11:04,159 Speaker 1: That's interesting. We've seen the same thing, of course, with 171 00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:10,000 the Department of Homeland Security and an agency and all 172 00:11:10,039 --> 00:11:17,240 of the myriad you know alphabet soup agencies that we 173 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,480 know SISA is the name of that organization and the 174 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:27,240 role that it has played in suppressing information working with 175 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:34,320 big tech. Are all of these entities? Are they in contact? 176 00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:39,120 Are they in communication? What have you learned about the 177 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,360 central point of all of this? 178 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 2: Well, the CI is the central point of all this, 179 00:11:44,799 --> 00:11:46,960 as it always has been. When they correct when they 180 00:11:47,039 --> 00:11:49,879 when they created the Director of National Intelligence, claiming that, 181 00:11:49,919 --> 00:11:53,440 well this powerful, central, central role of the CI will 182 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,320 now be removed and it will be kind of tamed 183 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,440 down a little bit. Well, no, that didn't happen. The 184 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,919 CI didn't change at all, and they can continues to 185 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:02,919 be the center, focal point for all of this, all 186 00:12:02,919 --> 00:12:05,840 of these propaganda operations. And you have to remember that 187 00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:11,840 the CI employees massive military Industrial Complex contractors and what 188 00:12:11,879 --> 00:12:16,080 I call the secret industrial intelligence complex that have CI contracts. 189 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,600 The companies like Raytheon Lockhey Martin, which is also a 190 00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:23,240 spying armor the CIA. These are billions and billions of 191 00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:27,320 dollars in CIA contracts that are run ostensibly by the CI, 192 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,200 and our foreign policy is being dictated and implemented by 193 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,960 unelected bureaucrats in these organizations. That's the CI's favorite modus 194 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,840 operandi is to operate through private companies to do its 195 00:12:38,879 --> 00:12:39,440 dirty work. 196 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,759 Speaker 1: What's curious to me is that the left used to 197 00:12:42,799 --> 00:12:45,679 express concerns about this. And I'm not saying there aren't 198 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,559 members of the left still concerned about exactly what you 199 00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:53,759 just laid out. The you know, the military industrial complex, 200 00:12:53,840 --> 00:13:00,080 connected to the Central Intelligence complex, the homeland spying operation 201 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,080 consider going on. But what changed? What happened in your estimation? 202 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:12,000 Why is the left in this country seemingly so lacking curiosity, 203 00:13:12,039 --> 00:13:17,399 intellectual curiosity, and what's happening in their name as American 204 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,080 citizens through the CIA and the deep state? 205 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Bobby Kennedy's Robert F. Kennedy Junior, as a 206 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:26,919 friend of mine, and he would say the same thing 207 00:13:26,919 --> 00:13:29,639 I think I know he does is the Democratic Party 208 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,360 is not the same Democratic Party it was even ten 209 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,600 years ago. It's a neo Democratic party. And whereas Ron 210 00:13:36,639 --> 00:13:40,559 Wyden back after the Patriot Act was passed, decried the 211 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,320 powers that it gave to the intelligence community, especially the CIA. 212 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,679 The Democratic Party now is a full sponsor of these 213 00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:51,879 operations and activities and of the CI, and they claim 214 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,799 to be the perpetrators or the monitors of freedom and 215 00:13:55,799 --> 00:13:58,799 freedom of speech, and they're exactly the opposite. They've gone 216 00:13:58,919 --> 00:14:02,639 so rogue, and they're so connected into these massive US 217 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,480 corporations that they're bought and paid for. And this is 218 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,960 just my humble opinion, but if Kamala Harris were elected president, 219 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,720 she would be the CI's puppets, specifically as bad or 220 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:16,519 worse as Joe Biden was, and we'd be in a 221 00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:19,399 world of trouble, trouble in terms of the expansion of CIA. 222 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: Now, the leftist have a tiger by the tail, because 223 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:24,960 that tiger can come back to bite them for sure. 224 00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:28,759 Let's go, let's go back to your career, long career 225 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,440 with the CIA, and you right, you know, and I 226 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,840 mean that's really the premise of your book that the 227 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,360 CIA has dramatically changed since its founding, its origins. Let's 228 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,799 talk about its foundings, and then when you got involved 229 00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:46,519 in your service with the CIA, well. 230 00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:50,639 Speaker 2: The CIA was founded by a pretty dark individual. Alan 231 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,440 Doas came out from the OSS and founded the CIA, 232 00:14:54,759 --> 00:14:57,559 and the Truman passed the National Security Act in nineteen 233 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,399 forty seven, and what the c has done is completely 234 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,039 misinterpreted and abused the portion of the National Security Act 235 00:15:06,039 --> 00:15:10,360 of forty seven which basically states that Truman created the CIA, 236 00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:14,399 which will serve at the pleasure of the National Security 237 00:15:14,399 --> 00:15:19,879 Council and from time to time served the NSC in 238 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,480 things that it deems appropriate. It never gave, never gives 239 00:15:23,559 --> 00:15:27,919 the CIA the unbridled authority for covert operations it has 240 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:31,559 now starting with Dawes, it overtook that and within two 241 00:15:31,679 --> 00:15:34,600 years I think I had his quote here, Harry Truman 242 00:15:34,799 --> 00:15:38,600 regretted forming the CI because he saw how badly it 243 00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:40,799 had become in just two years. And this is what 244 00:15:40,879 --> 00:15:44,080 Truman said, Well, there's something about the way the CIA 245 00:15:44,159 --> 00:15:46,679 has been functioning that it's casting a shadow on our 246 00:15:46,879 --> 00:15:49,600 historic position of freedom, and I feel we need to 247 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,600 correct it. So he regretted creating the CI within two 248 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,480 years because it had taken the National Security Act of 249 00:15:55,559 --> 00:15:58,639 nineteen forty seven, grossly abused it and turned it into 250 00:15:58,679 --> 00:15:59,960 an authority which it was not give. 251 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:05,639 Speaker 1: And Truman, Kevin created this through the advice and council 252 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,759 of you know, some folks, some of them suspect, of course, 253 00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:14,759 as it turned out to be upon analysis later on, 254 00:16:15,679 --> 00:16:20,360 that military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about once again. 255 00:16:20,879 --> 00:16:23,200 But all of this, you know, was not created in 256 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,840 a bubble. This is created out of deep and in 257 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:32,279 many cases legitimate concerns about communist infiltration, not only around 258 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:37,279 the world but in the US government itself. Correct, yes, correct, 259 00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:38,399 And that was Truman's intent. 260 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 2: You know, the statement was, we don't want to have 261 00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:44,519 another Pearl Harbor and the hit blind, and so he 262 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,240 created the CIA as a central repository of intelligence so 263 00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:51,120 we could stop something like that from happening. Again, that 264 00:16:51,279 --> 00:16:54,360 was his intent, and parts of the CIA still do that, 265 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,320 like the Director of Intelligence, where the analysts are and 266 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,080 I was trained in analytics by the Director of Intelligence. 267 00:17:01,799 --> 00:17:05,680 They still do a fantastic job of analyzing intelligence, satellite 268 00:17:05,759 --> 00:17:07,960 imagery and other things. I mean, they're the experts, and 269 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,599 that's what Truman intended. That's part of the CI I 270 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,480 think that we need to keep around. I'm not talking 271 00:17:13,519 --> 00:17:16,880 about the elimination of the entire CIA. I'm talking about 272 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,799 the elimination of its unconstitutional and illegal covert operational authority. 273 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:23,440 So they are parts of the CEA I think we 274 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,759 need to keep, which is what Truman initially intended. It 275 00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:29,920 was the covert operational arm that he later regretted two 276 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:30,519 years later. 277 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about how you got involved. Why 278 00:17:36,799 --> 00:17:42,039 is it, what motivated you? What inspired you to get 279 00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:46,319 involved in Central Intelligence? I mean, was this something you 280 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,440 thought about as a kid, and obviously you were deeply 281 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,480 involved in an analysis? What did you do over your 282 00:17:51,519 --> 00:17:52,160 tenure there? 283 00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because I was such a hoodlum 284 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,799 in college. I never thought i'd get into the CI, 285 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,480 so the thought never crossed my mind. 286 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,279 Speaker 1: I think a lot of us would have trouble and 287 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:03,640 I was. 288 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 2: And when a friend of mine convinced me to put 289 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,519 in an application, I gave it to them to take in. 290 00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:12,519 They're thinking, that's never going to happen. And then I 291 00:18:12,519 --> 00:18:15,680 found out that they were taking my application seriously or 292 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,680 were doing a background investigation. I thought, oh, gosh, you're 293 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,400 going to talk to some of my friends in college 294 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,440 and that's the end of that. And on and on 295 00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:24,920 it went, and I wound up getting hired more of 296 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,799 a surprise than a dream. And when I got in there, 297 00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:31,240 of course, you don't know what the CI is doing 298 00:18:31,319 --> 00:18:33,799 until you get in there, even at the lower secret levels. 299 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,279 So when you get in there, they opened kind of 300 00:18:36,319 --> 00:18:41,039 the low level family jewels, and most people their eyes 301 00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:43,640 I used to be the senior briefer doing this for 302 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,039 the CI. Their eyes open wide and their jaw drops 303 00:18:46,039 --> 00:18:49,640 when they realized what the CI has been doing, and 304 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,000 they get some of them get kind of a nessized 305 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,039 by it or drugged with the access that they've been given, 306 00:18:56,079 --> 00:19:00,720 and they kind of lose their moral compass, which happens 307 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,799 much of the time. So I received several awards. I 308 00:19:05,839 --> 00:19:08,839 was an agent protective agent on the seventh floor in 309 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,200 the detail of William Casey. I had a command post 310 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,720 in his house. We had command posts just outside his 311 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,039 hospital room when he had his seizure, and that's when 312 00:19:19,079 --> 00:19:23,039 Bob Woodward claims he got in to have that historical conversation. 313 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,440 And I have a chapter on Bob Woodward and his fabrications. 314 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,079 Woodward never got into talk to Casey. I was one 315 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:30,720 of the agents in the hot seat right outside of 316 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,039 his room, as were the other agents. Woodward tried to 317 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:34,960 get in and the agents caught him and showed him 318 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,720 the door. That never happened. It's a complete fabrication. 319 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: Wow. Interesting, and I know that the story has been 320 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,039 been told for a long time, but fake news by 321 00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:45,759 Bob Woodward. 322 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 2: Huh, that's absolutely correct. And Woodward didn't plan on one 323 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,519 of the agents coming out being able to talk about it, 324 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:54,640 and that he didn't plan on me coming out and 325 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,000 doing this, and so he thought it would since everybody 326 00:19:57,079 --> 00:19:59,519 was bound by secrecy and undercover, that this would never 327 00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:01,640 come to life. Well I was able to do so, 328 00:20:01,759 --> 00:20:03,839 get my cover roll back, and now I can come 329 00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:05,599 out and talk about it. He didn't plan on that. 330 00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:11,920 What changed me was I was doing an investigation on 331 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,279 international CIA connections with some of our allied partners, and 332 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,319 during that investigation, I discovered that at any embassy around 333 00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:25,079 the world, anyone from the Visa Section that includes foreign 334 00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:28,640 Intelligence services could go into an unclassified Visa Section computer 335 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,960 and identify our covert CIA officers, including the chief of station, 336 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,559 the officers, and even their assets. I provided a detailed 337 00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:43,079 report to CIA management, specifically the division involved. My report 338 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,240 was destroyed three times. It was destroyed and removed from 339 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,359 the headquarters server. I was called by the chief of 340 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,960 that division and threatened to drop it or it would 341 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,599 be my career, and for some reason they wanted to 342 00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:57,400 block that. So my report was leaked to the outside 343 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,599 and Department of State Senior IG took the case without 344 00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:02,440 the CIA knowing it and told me to keep my 345 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,160 head down, don't tell anybody in the agency what they're doing. 346 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,880 They get back to me with what they found. Three 347 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,160 months later, they did, and they said it's worse than 348 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,880 even you thought. So the CI wound up being rebuked 349 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,839 with me sitting there my Department of State Senior IG 350 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,200 for putting the lives of its officers at risk for 351 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,759 over ten years and covering it up. And that rebuke 352 00:21:19,799 --> 00:21:22,240 went out as a report into the attire intelligence community, 353 00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:24,599 and hence I had a target on my back from 354 00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:27,160 then and I did into the book exactly what they 355 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,400 started doing to me and put me in a secret 356 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,480 base in the house. They knew it was badly contaminated, 357 00:21:32,519 --> 00:21:35,160 and my family got desperately sick, and some of that 358 00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:37,960 is in the book. So that was the crowning blow. 359 00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:41,240 Was you know, they say you can mess with a man, 360 00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:43,839 but you don't mess with his family. Well, my wife 361 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,160 and son were almost terminal from the toxic stuff that 362 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,400 was in that house, and that was my defining moment. 363 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,039 Speaker 1: Well, I can imagine this was what around twenty ten, 364 00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:54,000 if I'm remembering right now. 365 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,559 Speaker 2: This started back in nineteen ninety nine into detention one 366 00:21:58,640 --> 00:21:59,680 through two thousand and four. 367 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,039 Speaker 1: I see, Okay, I got you, but you know you 368 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:08,599 had continuing problems since then. Yeah, I have to ask 369 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:14,359 you this. Are you surprised that I'm able to talk 370 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,519 to you right now, that you're able to write these books, 371 00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:21,400 you're able to expose this stuff. Are you surprised that 372 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,759 you are still with us on this earth? 373 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,519 Speaker 2: Well, they tried to stop that from happening. Even the 374 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,920 IG official from the CIIG confided me at a program 375 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,319 manager conference after we were both out, and he came 376 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,519 up and he said, I apologize. We were ordered by 377 00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:40,640 the director of the CIA to target and silence you 378 00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:44,640 and your case, and so they went after basically to 379 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,440 eliminate me. And that's in the book. I learned that 380 00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:49,559 the only way to fight the CIA, which I'm doing 381 00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:52,960 in Twilight, is to come out in public, full bore, 382 00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:56,279 with all the truth all the time. If you try 383 00:22:56,319 --> 00:22:58,680 to play by their rules, they will destroy you. So 384 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,440 what you do is what I'm doing. Now, you come 385 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,359 out public. I'm the only one they can touch because 386 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,559 I signed their secrecy agreement, And when I wrote from 387 00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:08,160 the Company of Shadows, the CIO redacted all of the 388 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,559 information about my family's poisoning, the break ins, the doctors diagnosis, 389 00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:16,279 redacted it throughout the whole book. None of that is classified, 390 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,839 and it's a violation of Executive or twelve three fifty six. 391 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,519 The agency can't blackout information just because it reveals criminal activity. 392 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,720 Is a Reagan executive work, but they lacked it out anyway. 393 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,920 So when I wrote Twilight from the Shadow Government, I 394 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,960 knew they were going to do that again. So I 395 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,440 made the conscious decision to violate my secrecy agreement with 396 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,359 the CIA and give this to Skyhorse courageous Skyhorse Publishing 397 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,160 while the CIA was reviewing it and get it published 398 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,720 without their approval. And of course I've already received one 399 00:23:43,759 --> 00:23:46,160 threat from them, which I knew was coming. But I've 400 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,079 placed myself out doing this to get the truth to 401 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,480 the American people. I'm the only one that they can 402 00:23:51,559 --> 00:23:53,759 touch and the only thing that has kept me safe 403 00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:56,000 and on these programs. Is the fact that I come 404 00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:58,759 out full bore or public with everything. Everything they try 405 00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:01,039 to do, everything they we'll try to do, is going 406 00:24:01,039 --> 00:24:01,799 to be made public. 407 00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:06,519 Speaker 3: Who is the Department of Home Win Security supposed to help? 408 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,440 The Watch Dout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. 409 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,319 Every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and 410 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,079 the economy and how it affects your wallet. Majorcas is 411 00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:17,640 saying FEMA's running out of money, But this past year 412 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,960 we spent twenty four billion in Ukraine, eleven billion in Israel, 413 00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:24,440 and billions more to smaller nations. Who are their real priorities. 414 00:24:24,519 --> 00:24:26,559 Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, 415 00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:27,799 it's affecting you financially. 416 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: Be informed. 417 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,319 Speaker 3: Check out the Watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with 418 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,640 Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 419 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: Our guest today is former CIA agent Kevin Shipp. Kevin 420 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,640 joining us to discuss his new book, Twilight of the 421 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:48,279 Shadow Government, How Transparency Will Kill the Deep State. The book, 422 00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:51,880 as we've noted, offers an unprecedented look into the inner 423 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,799 workings of the CIA, revealing how the agency has strayed 424 00:24:55,839 --> 00:24:58,440 from its original mission and the links. It will go 425 00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:02,880 to silence those who air to speak out, particularly one 426 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,720 of its former agents and Kevin Ship. How long were 427 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,440 you with the agency? 428 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 2: I was with the CI for seventeen years, Then I 429 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,640 ran the Department of State and he carries on assistance 430 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,559 training program for another three years, So seventeen years with 431 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:19,440 the CI and three years with Department of State. 432 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: May I asked, how are you doing? Did you have 433 00:25:23,599 --> 00:25:27,960 similar health problems your family? How are you doing these days? 434 00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:31,920 And what specifically what kind of threats have you received 435 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,079 since taking this story out to the public. 436 00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:38,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, this did take quite a toll on my physical 437 00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:42,839 health and watching your them telling your son that he 438 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,240 had terminal immune system damage and my wife had some 439 00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:48,759 sort of brain injury and that she was bed ridden. 440 00:25:48,759 --> 00:25:50,880 The doctors couldn't figure out what it was, and it 441 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,480 all matched the toxic exposure that was in the house 442 00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:57,119 during that while the CI was covering it all up, 443 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,480 threatening me in my career, and that did take physical 444 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,079 toll on me, and I had some pretty serious health 445 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,519 problems after that with that, wrestling with PTSD and other things. 446 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,839 Now you know, I'm doing fantastic, uh, coming out in 447 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,039 the open with all of all of the truth has 448 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,640 probably been the most freeing thing I've done, and health 449 00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:20,599 is good. I've built a little after Good Farm that CI, 450 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,559 of course tried to destroy my finances. I built a 451 00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:26,680 little off a good farm. We're self sufficient, we have 452 00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:29,759 everything is solar powered, not connected to the internet, and 453 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,640 I'm probably the happiest I've been in my entire life. 454 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,599 So things things worked out well, and I guess I 455 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,720 have to thank the CI for putting me in my 456 00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:39,440 dream of after Good farm. 457 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,759 Speaker 1: Thank goodness for small blessings from the CIA. Right, they 458 00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:53,920 certainly certainly wasn't their their intention? Clearly, How do you 459 00:26:54,039 --> 00:27:01,440 live with the idea in this shadow, knowing that you're 460 00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:06,079 probably being observed, You have been observed that there is 461 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:13,839 a massive potentially a massive entity that is unchecked and 462 00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:19,960 unstopped so often against you. How do you deal with that? 463 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,640 And you know, you know the criticisms. You've been billed 464 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,240 as a conspiracy theorist by the agency that you serve 465 00:27:27,319 --> 00:27:30,279 for so long and their helpers. Of course, I mean, 466 00:27:30,319 --> 00:27:34,799 I'm looking at an ABC story here on your publications, 467 00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:38,720 I'm looking at other stories that have you know, in 468 00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:43,359 essence followed the corporate line from the CIA. How do 469 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,720 you deal with those things? 470 00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 2: Of course, well, they don't bother me in the least. 471 00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:49,720 And the reason I put Twilight of the Shadow Government 472 00:27:49,799 --> 00:27:53,400 is out out there is to disprove all of that 473 00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:56,359 garbage and show what is really the truth, so much 474 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,319 so that someone would say, oh, this guy was a 475 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,880 low level punky guy at the agency, never had any 476 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,400 positions of significance. That's why I put my awards and 477 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,880 performance appraisals, my real ones that were classified secret are 478 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,680 now un classified in the book. I prove who I was, 479 00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:15,920 what I did, what my level was, with all that 480 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,880 documented information to do because I knew this was coming. 481 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,240 I knew these outlets being the mocking birds of course 482 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,000 that we talked about, we're going to try to do 483 00:28:24,039 --> 00:28:25,920 this ahead of time, so I put the evidence in 484 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,160 the book for everybody to see. 485 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: We talked about this earlier on in the conversation. But 486 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,920 as we we come to the last remaining days of 487 00:28:38,119 --> 00:28:45,400 an unprecedented election cycle in American history for so many reasons, 488 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:51,279 what sort of things are we seeing the CIA and 489 00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:56,599 their deep state beyond using you know, former agents or 490 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:02,799 those connected to it to to try to discredit, further 491 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,640 discredit Donald Trump try to try to claim him as 492 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,680 a threat to democracy. I don't think a lot of 493 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,200 Americans are buying that, particular after we've particularly after we've 494 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,720 seen the weaponization of the Justice Department under the Biden 495 00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:21,720 Harris administration. But what sort of things do you see? 496 00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:27,799 Could the CIA play an October surprise if you will? 497 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:33,279 Speaker 2: Well, I think what they're going to try to do. 498 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:35,319 The only thing they can try to do outside of 499 00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:38,720 getting rid of Donald Trump themselves, is to put out 500 00:29:38,759 --> 00:29:41,599 such a heavy propaganda of course, like they did with 501 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,640 COVID nineteen. COVID nineteen then the lockouts, and the propaganda 502 00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:47,720 was developed by the CIO. A lot of people don't 503 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,559 realize that, in conjunction with Johns Hopkins University, that propaganda 504 00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:54,640 program is already in place. So that's how the CI 505 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,319 has manipulated the American people for decades, and that's how 506 00:29:58,319 --> 00:30:01,079 they're going to try to do it again. In terms 507 00:30:01,119 --> 00:30:03,160 of what they may try to pull before the election, 508 00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:07,519 you know, that's an open question. You can be sure 509 00:30:07,519 --> 00:30:10,000 that they will do whatever they can for self preservation, 510 00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:12,799 to preserve the agency and to keep any scrutiny or 511 00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:16,400 oversight out of it. So you know, This is intense. 512 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,200 This election is extremely alarming because, as I've mentioned before, 513 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,960 Kamala Harris, like Joe Biden, will simply be a puppet 514 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,640 of the CIA and allow them to do whatever they want, 515 00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:28,559 like droning eight wedding parties and killing all the innocent 516 00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:30,920 people and kill this and all that other stuff. They know, 517 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,599 they'll allow them to keep doing that. So they're going 518 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,720 to keep pushing the propaganda against Trump fiercely, and it's 519 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,799 going to get worse and worse leading up to the election. 520 00:30:39,559 --> 00:30:43,920 And god forbid if Kamala Harris wins, because if that's 521 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,480 the case, we're in a lot of trouble. 522 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,559 Speaker 1: The whole premise of your book, Kevin, is built on 523 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,279 what you are doing now making public what has been hidden, 524 00:30:54,319 --> 00:30:57,759 what has been dark for so long. That said, we 525 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:04,000 have a presidential candidate for president who talks about draining 526 00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:10,160 the swamp once again, going after the deep state people 527 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,519 who ran for president who are surrounding the GOP nominee. 528 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:19,400 I think, in particular the Vake Ramaswami who talked about 529 00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:26,279 going after the FBI and in many ways the Central 530 00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:30,319 Intelligence Agency. Let me ask you this, if Trump wins, 531 00:31:31,319 --> 00:31:35,319 can he do can he actually do what he says 532 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,319 he wants to do with the deep state. 533 00:31:40,559 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 2: He can do it alone. I think we saw that 534 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,519 the first time around. He's going to need some dedicated, dedicated, 535 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,920 courageous cabinet members. Bobby Kennedy Junior, a good friend of mine, 536 00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:56,200 has come over and joined the Frump campaign, which is 537 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,279 a great encouragement to me because I was a real 538 00:31:58,279 --> 00:32:01,440 supporter of his and I know Bobby Kennedy well enough 539 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:02,720 to know that if he gets in there and gets 540 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,759 a cabinet level position, he's got the guts to do something. 541 00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:08,519 And now Vivek says a lot of good things, and 542 00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:10,839 we'll see if he's got the courage to pull them off. 543 00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:13,559 Because when they get in there, the shadow government and 544 00:32:13,599 --> 00:32:15,920 deep State is going to try to destroy them. And 545 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,000 if they know that going in, that's good. But secondly, 546 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,279 and maybe most important of all, the American people need 547 00:32:20,319 --> 00:32:23,440 to understand that they have to support this reform of 548 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,799 government and have to come out in droves and start 549 00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:30,160 an outrage against the CIA and the deep state and 550 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,160 the shadow government. The last chapter of my book, before 551 00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:36,920 we added the Trump assassination analysis, the last chapter in 552 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,279 my book, I gave twelve points that need to be 553 00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:42,839 done to reform the CI and stop its gross abuse 554 00:32:42,839 --> 00:32:46,400 of secrecy. And the last one is the American people themselves. 555 00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:50,480 We need to start an avalanche of demand for reform 556 00:32:50,519 --> 00:32:53,480 of the CIA and pressure and demand on our congressman 557 00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:56,799 and senators to do a real investigation because there hasn't 558 00:32:56,839 --> 00:32:59,240 been one since the Church Committee and they destroyed his career, 559 00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:02,279 to do another investigation of the CI and it's abuse 560 00:33:02,319 --> 00:33:04,640 of secrecy and start making some reforms. And if our 561 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,359 congressman and senators don't do that, several of them are 562 00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:09,559 in the pocket of the agency. Some of them own 563 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,039 stock in the agency's large corporations, like Lockheed Martin. So 564 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,039 the Congressan Cenate doesn't do that, then the American people 565 00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:18,079 need to fire them. 566 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,039 Speaker 1: It just seems like such an uphill battle. Not that 567 00:33:21,079 --> 00:33:24,400 it is, not that it's not worth pursuing, but it 568 00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:28,000 seems to me that we know some pretty awful things 569 00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:32,519 about the CIA, yet the people involved have yet to 570 00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:37,079 be held accountable. Right, Why don't we start there holding 571 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,359 those individuals accountable? 572 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we can start with George Tenant, 573 00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:46,000 who provided the false intelligence quote unquote on Iraq and 574 00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:49,200 led to the single biggest military failure in US military 575 00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:53,720 history in five hundred thousand Iraqi citizens, twenty five hundred 576 00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:56,759 US troops, and two hundred thousand injured US troops. We 577 00:33:56,799 --> 00:33:59,960 can start and George W. Bush gave him the President 578 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,799 Medal of Freedom for that. But we can start there, 579 00:34:03,119 --> 00:34:06,039 I think, and start holding some of these agency officials 580 00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:12,440 accountable for these bungling, deadly, bloody operations, offer operations and 581 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,079 corporate programs that they have installed and conducted that have 582 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:21,880 resulted in deaths and all kinds of horrific atrocities. We 583 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,719 can start there. Start with George Tennant, Start with Buzzy Krongard. 584 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,000 I talk about him in my book and his direct 585 00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:29,599 connections to Wall Street, and there's some peculiar things about 586 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,000 him and the CI connections to Wall Street that I 587 00:34:32,039 --> 00:34:34,920 talk about in the book. Hold him accountable, hold the 588 00:34:35,039 --> 00:34:39,119 CI high level officials accountable for these abominable operations that 589 00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,840 they've conducted. And as I mentioned, Iraq being at the 590 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,239 top of that list, and going all the way back 591 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,360 to the overturning of the Democratic Republic of Iran, and 592 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,679 now we have the chief sponsor of terroism that CIA 593 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,320 indirectly created. We need to start with CI officials for 594 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,480 the first time in our history and bring them before 595 00:34:56,519 --> 00:35:00,519 hearings in Congress and charge them for human rights violations, 596 00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:03,719 violations of the Constitution, and a number of illegal programs 597 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,840 which I talk about in some of my programs that 598 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,559 they have conducted. They need to be held accountable. They 599 00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:10,719 need to be brought before the courts, and they need 600 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,559 to be charged. And as a lesson to anybody that 601 00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:15,320 tries to go behind the back of the President of 602 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,440 Congress of the American people and conduct these bloody operations 603 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,199 without our knowledge. 604 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: Just don't see that happening. Unless right still it's going 605 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,960 to and still it's going to be a tough battle. 606 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:36,559 But unless you have the current regime scent packing, and 607 00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:43,960 it's going to take control by individuals in both wings 608 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,840 of Congress to really do something about this. Unless you 609 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,559 have a repudiation of the current regime and the people 610 00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:53,079 who have supported it, unless you have quite frankly from 611 00:35:53,079 --> 00:35:59,519 my estimation, conservatives in control of Congress able to actually 612 00:35:59,679 --> 00:36:04,920 act pond to have these investigations, really truly hold bad 613 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,840 actors accountable. I don't think this goes anywhere. And I'll 614 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,159 ask you this does it get that much worse. 615 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 2: I think you're exactly right. It is going to get 616 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,559 worse because it's going to try to self preserve itself, 617 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,480 and that and all the unelected bureaucrats that make all 618 00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:27,519 their money and everything else in the revolving door where 619 00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:30,320 they go from the CI and other agencies out into 620 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,719 Lockheed Martin and RAYTHEE on the others and make you 621 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,679 six seven figures. Yeah, it will just get worse unless 622 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,960 there is, as I mentioned, and I even have in 623 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,719 my studio picture behind me of a big avalanche. Unless 624 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,000 there's an avalanche of public demand for this to happen 625 00:36:46,039 --> 00:36:48,559 the things you and I are talking about, it will 626 00:36:48,599 --> 00:36:50,519 just get worse, and it will continue on and it 627 00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:52,360 will just increase its self preservation. 628 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: Indeed, and I think about again, not to beat a 629 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,760 dead horse, but the mean the so called legacy mainstream 630 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,639 corporate media's involvement in this. You know, in the you 631 00:37:06,639 --> 00:37:09,360 know in the recent article in the Blaze piece that 632 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,079 you wrote after Joe Biden's victory, evidence surfaced of Biden's 633 00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:18,840 involvement in Ukraine following the twenty fourteen CIA orchestrated coup. 634 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,599 Correct This led to the discovery of hunter Biden's laptop 635 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,840 which contained well we know what it contains, anybody who's 636 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:30,280 following this story. And then, as you note, you had 637 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,679 these fifty one former intelligence officials, including forty two senior 638 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,920 CIA officers, quickly signing on to this public statement. You know, 639 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:47,320 this word disinformation and all of its you know, related 640 00:37:47,519 --> 00:37:54,960 terms misinformation, malinformation, all established you know, really driven home. 641 00:37:55,559 --> 00:37:59,639 And we even had a bizar over this sort of stuff, 642 00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:03,920 short lived as it was, you know, in CISA, SISA, 643 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,440 I should say, in the Department of Homeland Security. But 644 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,719 the real disinformation is being fed, as it has so 645 00:38:13,039 --> 00:38:19,199 many times over the last well nearly eighty years in 646 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,360 this country by the deep state, the CIA, and we 647 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,639 used to have a responsible media that would well hold 648 00:38:27,679 --> 00:38:31,559 on here a second, let's ask some questions before we 649 00:38:32,119 --> 00:38:35,960 sign up for this message, for this narrative that doesn't 650 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:36,840 happen anymore. 651 00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 2: No, no, it doesn't. When's the last time you saw 652 00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:42,159 any mainstream media And you know, as much as I 653 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,599 like Fox News, I have to include them in this too. 654 00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:49,599 When's the last time you saw any mainstream media journalists 655 00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:53,280 do an actual, real investigation of the CIS operations, especially 656 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,199 the botched ones almost never and the only the only 657 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,639 one I saw in Fox was a mile un followed 658 00:38:59,679 --> 00:39:02,079 by how great the CI Spy Museum is and how 659 00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:04,480 great the CI is. It's spying. They're afraid. 660 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: The gift shop is incredible, though, Kevin, I will, well. 661 00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 2: Yes, it's such a pretty pickup in you know, and 662 00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:14,559 guess and guess who runs the cip Spy music. Well, 663 00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:17,079 on the board of directors are CI officials and some 664 00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:19,840 other media figures like George Clooney and others are. 665 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: On the board. 666 00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 2: That's a whole other story. It's another mockingbird thing that 667 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,800 has worked pretty well, I have to say, anyway, But 668 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,920 that's basically what that is. But people have to understand 669 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:37,039 the CIA. What it does is lie and deceive and propagandize. 670 00:39:37,199 --> 00:39:39,760 That's what the CI is. That's what they do. They 671 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,079 cause it. They call it plausible denial, and they can 672 00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:45,119 both face lie to the President, Congress and the public. 673 00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:48,800 They call it plausible denial to protect the operation. Lying 674 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,320 and propaganda is what the CIA is, and that's all 675 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,719 we should expect from it because that is the core 676 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:55,400 of its function. 677 00:39:56,159 --> 00:39:58,280 Speaker 1: If you get to the CIA Museum, you get to 678 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,480 the gift shop, you might want to check the kids 679 00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:05,239 on their interest and then eventual purchase of the CIA's 680 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:12,480 waterboarding kit. It's problematic for the entire family. I did not. 681 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,639 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but that's hilarious. 682 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: I mean, let me just tell you it is troubling, 683 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,000 all right. I appreciate the generosity of your time. I'll 684 00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:27,360 end with this. You sound optimistic, strangely to me. With 685 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,840 all that you have gone through, all that you have experienced, 686 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,639 all that you survive, you still believe that this agency 687 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,519 ultimately can be put in check by its real bosses. 688 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,159 And it should be very clear, although that has been 689 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,320 lost since nineteen forty seven, who the real bosses of 690 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,039 the CIA are. The real bosses are the American people. 691 00:40:53,079 --> 00:40:59,280 You believe ultimately that this agency can be checked. 692 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,679 Speaker 2: Yes, History shows us that all it takes is one 693 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,159 person to come out and take the personal risk, even 694 00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:09,480 the life risk, of standing up and speaking out. And 695 00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:13,280 once that person does that, then thousands and thousands and 696 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,159 thousands and thousands of people will follow the truth. And 697 00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:20,559 that's what I believe. And I also personally answer to 698 00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:23,039 a higher authority, So I'm not worried. I'm not afraid 699 00:41:23,079 --> 00:41:25,599 of dying. They've tried everything they could to kind of 700 00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:28,400 erase me, and it hasn't worked. So that doesn't bother 701 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,719 me at all. And as I mentioned earlier, there's a 702 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,559 great freedom in telling the truth and putting the truth 703 00:41:33,559 --> 00:41:36,679 out there. And it's a great feeling not to have 704 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,280 to have planes drones flying over your house and things 705 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,599 like that when they're trying to shut you up. I've 706 00:41:43,639 --> 00:41:46,960 come out and I've said it, and that essentially sets 707 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,559 me free. I'm healthy, I'm living on my dream farm 708 00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:53,559 with my best friend, my wife, and I'm not afraid 709 00:41:53,559 --> 00:41:56,719 of death. And someone had to do this, and I 710 00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,719 believe that this is the mission and I've been called 711 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,639 to do and so I'm doing. 712 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 1: It well I can I guess I can understand at 713 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,800 a certain level. I haven't, by the grace of God, 714 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,679 lived your experiences, although obviously, as you've told us over 715 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,440 the course of this conversation, those experiences shaped who you 716 00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:24,559 are and what your mission is today. Yes, and you know, 717 00:42:24,679 --> 00:42:27,159 as you explain, it, a God given mission, and that 718 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,000 is getting the truth out. The truth shall set us free. 719 00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:36,920 It's just so difficult in a world of lies and 720 00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:41,079 government sponsored lives at that. Thanks to my guest today 721 00:42:41,159 --> 00:42:45,440 former CIA agent Kevin Shipp, You've been listening to another 722 00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:48,559 edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior 723 00:42:48,559 --> 00:42:52,159 correspondent at The Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. 724 00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 2: Thanks. 725 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:58,119 Speaker 1: Till then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray. 726 00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 2: Unbercing Mayor p polit And Sake pointed to Aja Grady 727 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,320 poll in the National check pub Town