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Speaker 6: You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking
Speaker 6: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 6: written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker, DTK, every week,
Speaker 6: another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous
Speaker 6: killers in true crime history True Murder with your host
Speaker 6: journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 7: Good evening. Where is Brandon Simms? The four year old
Speaker 7: had not been since scenes since July third, nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 7: when he attended a birthday party with his twenty year
Speaker 7: old mother, Michelle Jones. Jones was employed, confident, talented, smart, assertive,
Speaker 7: and involved in many community activities in Indianapolis, Indiana. In contrast,
Speaker 7: when he was last seen, Brandon Simms, an only child,
Speaker 7: was a serious, quiet, thin boy, rarely maintained eye contact
Speaker 7: with his mother. After that night, he was never seen again.
Speaker 7: His body has never been found. For years, Jones lied
Speaker 7: to her friends about Brandon, telling some that he was
Speaker 7: living with his father, and others he was staying with
Speaker 7: his grandmother in another state. When Brandon's father, who had
Speaker 7: been in jail, came looking for Brandon, Michele's shocked friends
Speaker 7: confronted her, she confessed that Brandon was dead. She repeated
Speaker 7: her story of how Brandon died to a detective after
Speaker 7: she admitted herself to the local psych unit. Days later,
Speaker 7: she checked out of the unit and refused to reveal
Speaker 7: where she had hidden Brandon's body. She was sure she
Speaker 7: had gotten no way with murder and she would have
Speaker 7: accept The detective didn't believe her story. He enlisted the
Speaker 7: help of a novice prosecutor because no experienced prosecutor would
Speaker 7: take the case. In Indiana, no one had ever been
Speaker 7: convicted of murder without a body. That prosecutor has written
Speaker 7: a book that reads like a mystery novel instead of
Speaker 7: the real murder prosecution. Truth is stranger than fiction, where
Speaker 7: Santa Ria curses, the law and politics are only a
Speaker 7: few of the obstacles to justice. The book that we're
Speaker 7: featuring this evening is Inconvenience Gone, The Short Tragic Life
Speaker 7: of Brandon Simms, with my special guests, journalist and author
Speaker 7: and attorney Diane marger Moore. Welcome to the program, and
Speaker 7: thank you very much for a green to this's interview.
Speaker 7: Diane marger Moore, thank you.
Speaker 1: For having me. I really appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 7: Thank you very much. It's a fascinating case, and your
Speaker 7: bird's eye perspective here as prosecutor makes this even more fascinating.
Speaker 7: Let's get right to a little bit about your legal
Speaker 7: background and how you came to be involved in this
Speaker 7: case and want to write about it, but first tell
Speaker 7: us how you became first involved in this case and
Speaker 7: your legal background, please, I.
Speaker 1: Had thank you. I graduated from the University of Georgia
Speaker 1: law school and spent a number of years as a
Speaker 1: criminal defense lawyer. And when I married my husband, he
Speaker 1: was from Indiana, and so I moved to that state,
Speaker 1: and not knowing anyone, I was fortunate to be hired
Speaker 1: as a deputy Attorney General, where I worked for several years,
Speaker 1: and then I was able to get back and be
Speaker 1: hired by the Marin County Prosecutor's office. Although I'd already
Speaker 1: been a lawyer for nearly fifteen years, I'd never prosecuted
Speaker 1: the case, and so I was given the opportunity primarily
Speaker 1: as the chief Arson prosecutor. But after handling a couple
Speaker 1: arson murder cases, my door seemed to be open to
Speaker 1: other types of cases. And that's how I ended up
Speaker 1: with this case. When a detective just knocked on my
Speaker 1: door and began to talk to me about the case.
Speaker 1: At the time, I'd been a prosecutor for about six months.
Speaker 7: Now. We talked about in the introduction, we introduced the
Speaker 7: idea that you said that no prosecutor would really want
Speaker 7: to look at this, So explain a little bit about
Speaker 7: how you come to be the prosecutor. And based on
Speaker 7: sort of the problem that you have with that, what
Speaker 7: does Sergeant Michael Krook tell you that prompts you to
Speaker 7: definitely want to be involved with this?
Speaker 1: Well, I think prosecutors, like other people, like to prosecute
Speaker 1: cases that they're not only convinced of personally, but that
Speaker 1: they believe they can win. And in this case, because
Speaker 1: because there was no body in Indiana, there's a requirement
Speaker 1: that one proved the body of the crime, and normally
Speaker 1: in a murder case, it's the body that establishes that.
Speaker 1: It's called the corpus delecti. So in this case, with
Speaker 1: no body having been found, it was going to be
Speaker 1: a very difficult case to prosecute. But Mike Krook, who
Speaker 1: at the time was a sergeant in a homicide unit
Speaker 1: and a very respected detective, just felt certain that this
Speaker 1: mother had done something so horrible that she needed to
Speaker 1: be prosecuted. And after going to the more experienced homicide executers,
Speaker 1: who had wonderful records because they only took cases that
Speaker 1: were likely to succeed in. Having knocked on a number
Speaker 1: of doors, he came to my door to ask whether
Speaker 1: I would at least assist him in trying to get
Speaker 1: the case filed in some form.
Speaker 7: Yes, you say that you were pretty well convinced that
Speaker 7: he was going to do this regardless, and so he
Speaker 7: was very determined. And that's one thing I think that
Speaker 7: really caught your attention. Now, what is the story that
Speaker 7: he relates to you that was related to him at
Speaker 7: this midtown which is I guess a unit at the
Speaker 7: mental hospital. At the mental hospital.
Speaker 1: Yes, Mike Crook was the duty officer, the sergeant in
Speaker 1: the homicide unit when a uniformed officer explained to him
Speaker 1: that they'd received a call from Wishard, which is the
Speaker 1: mental health unit of the county hospital, that a woman
Speaker 1: had admitted that her son had died while in her care.
Speaker 1: The officer hadn't gotten very specific with it about it,
Speaker 1: but it was enough for Mike Krook to return to
Speaker 1: the hospital and speak to the admissions clerk. The admissions
Speaker 1: clerk explained to him that Michelle Jones, a young woman,
Speaker 1: had come in allegedly having nervous problems because she had
Speaker 1: finally disclosed to friends that her son, Brandon Simms, who
Speaker 1: had been four years old, had died when she left
Speaker 1: him alone for a period of about a week in
Speaker 1: their apartment two years earlier. Krook tried to speak to
Speaker 1: Michelle Jones at that point, but was told that she
Speaker 1: had been seriously sedated and so he would have to
Speaker 1: come back. By the time that I spoke to Sergeant Krook,
Speaker 1: he had gone back and interviewed Michelle Jones and she
Speaker 1: had related a similar story to him.
Speaker 7: Now, with that information, with that revelation to you, how
Speaker 7: did you proceed and how did the further contact with
Speaker 7: Michelle proceed with Sergeant Krook and yourself.
Speaker 1: Well, Obviously, the way that most prosecutions determine whether or
Speaker 1: not a death is accidental, a voluntary manslaughter, or a
Speaker 1: murder is to examine the body for evidence of how
Speaker 1: the death occurred. Michelle Jones is a brilliant woman, and
Speaker 1: she had told Sergeant Krook that she would show him
Speaker 1: where the body was. And obviously he was very anxious
Speaker 1: for that one because he felt he needed a body
Speaker 1: to proved murder, but also so that Brandon's body could
Speaker 1: be examined to determine how he had died, whether he
Speaker 1: had died accidentally, or whether he had been killed in
Speaker 1: some other manner. So when Sergeant Kirk went back to
Speaker 1: take Michelle to look for the body, she refused to
Speaker 1: go with him and refused to show him the body.
Speaker 1: And because of that, with nobody, the question was how
Speaker 1: do you build what is essentially a circumstantial case, because
Speaker 1: in Indiana, Michelle's statements would not be admissible unless we
Speaker 1: could independently proved that Brandon had died. And that was
Speaker 1: the real challenge is how to do that?
Speaker 7: How did you plan to do that? And what happens
Speaker 7: with the Again with the contact, what point does she
Speaker 7: stop contact with Sergeant Crook and speak to a lawyer?
Speaker 1: Still in the hospital, when she so, she told something
Speaker 1: to the admissions clerk she was actually admitted. Then she
Speaker 1: met with Mike Krook while in the hospital. There was
Speaker 1: also a nursing staff present during that interview, and Mike
Speaker 1: Kirk had agreed to come back in a couple of
Speaker 1: days so that he could take her and she would
Speaker 1: show him the scene. In that interim period, apparently a
Speaker 1: nurse and we don't know this for certain, but apparently
Speaker 1: someone in the hospital referred her to a criminal defense
Speaker 1: attorney and at that point he advised the detective to
Speaker 1: have no further contact with Michelle Jones and that was
Speaker 1: his last contact at that point in time.
Speaker 7: Now, right away, Sergeant Krook, he does an investigation and
Speaker 7: he finds out background information about out Michelle Engrin Jones, who,
Speaker 7: like you say, twenty years old. Tell us what he finds,
Speaker 7: and that on that trail, he quickly is trying to
Speaker 7: look for the biological father and any other relatives and
Speaker 7: any other family who does he find, who does he
Speaker 7: speak to? First? Tell us about that progress?
Speaker 1: Sure, well, because Michelle Jones was in a mental facility,
Speaker 1: the first question was did she really have a son
Speaker 1: named Brandon Simms? Was he missing or was he dead?
Speaker 1: And so the first thing to do was to check.
Speaker 1: The Sergeant Crook checked for birth records and found out
Speaker 1: that Michelle Jones had indeed had a son named Brandon
Speaker 1: Lamar Simms on the date that she had told him
Speaker 1: she had him, and she had identified the father of
Speaker 1: Brandon Simms accurately as Kevin Simms. And it was fairly
Speaker 1: easy for a detective Crook to meet with Kevin Simms
Speaker 1: because he'd been looking really furiously for his son and
Speaker 1: the grandmother of Michelle Jones. So it was able to
Speaker 1: confirm some of the information that Michelle Jones had given
Speaker 1: him that she did have a son, what his age was,
Speaker 1: and he then met with Kevin Simms to learn when
Speaker 1: the last contact had been. He met with Arlene Blevins,
Speaker 1: who was the grandmother, and then he started speaking with
Speaker 1: Michelle Jones family. What he found out was that Michelle
Speaker 1: had become pregnant at fourteen or early fifteen years old.
Speaker 1: She'd given birth when she was fifteen. Her mother may
Speaker 1: Ingram had some serious issues with Michelle and with her pregnancy.
Speaker 1: There was some alleged abuse and Michelle had ultimately been
Speaker 1: put in a group home. So Michelle spent several years
Speaker 1: in the foster care system. So those were the people.
Speaker 1: In fact, he went further and met with Michelle's aunts cousins.
Speaker 1: He did everything he could to see whether, for example,
Speaker 1: Michelle had placed custody or given Brandon to a family
Speaker 1: member to keep for her, because he hadn't been seen
Speaker 1: in years, and he was able to determine from all
Speaker 1: of those people that no one had seen Brandon for
Speaker 1: more than two years.
Speaker 7: Now. When he's talking to the very important grandmother, Arlene Blevins,
Speaker 7: he finds out the information about the maintenance of Brandon,
Speaker 7: who has taken care of him in the family. As
Speaker 7: you mentioned, tell us about Arlene Blevins in her role
Speaker 7: in Brandon's life.
Speaker 1: Sure, when Brandon was born, his mother, as I said,
Speaker 1: was a teenager and she was living in a group home,
Speaker 1: and the option was to either put Brandon in foster
Speaker 1: care or to allow him to stay with a family member.
Speaker 1: Kevin Simms, the father, was still involved with Michelle, but
Speaker 1: more importantly, he really wanted to be a good father
Speaker 1: this child, so he and his mother, Arlene, took Brandon
Speaker 1: into their home. Kevin was still living at home with
Speaker 1: his mother, Arlene. Arlene had worked at the same job
Speaker 1: for more than twenty years. She was very stable, she
Speaker 1: was loving, and she adored having this little boy, and
Speaker 1: in fact, she kept him for nearly three years while
Speaker 1: he was in her care. She took him to visit
Speaker 1: his mother to try and create a bond there, she
Speaker 1: took him to doctor's appointments to the extent that Kevin could.
Speaker 1: He was involved and Arlene just loved this little guy,
Speaker 1: but she never had legal custody in the sense that
Speaker 1: Michelle was the biological mother and Michelle had never turned
Speaker 1: over her rights. So at a point in time when
Speaker 1: Michelle became an adult, she insisted that Arlene gives Brandon
Speaker 1: back to her, and Arlene offered any kind of support, financial, babysitting,
Speaker 1: caring for anything that Michelle needed.
Speaker 7: You talk about too, that there was a period of
Speaker 7: time when the father is incarcerated. Just tell us about
Speaker 7: when he's incarcerated and for what, and the care continued
Speaker 7: from his mother while he was incarcerated.
Speaker 1: Yes, Brandon got into some trouble for a burglary that
Speaker 1: he committed. He was I guess he pled guilty, and
Speaker 1: he went to prison for a little over a year
Speaker 1: and a half or two years. And during all of
Speaker 1: that time, Arlene Blevins took care of Brandon alone. But
Speaker 1: it was a joy to her. You know, you could
Speaker 1: see her eyes light up when she talked about this wonderful,
Speaker 1: bright child who you know, got into everything because he
Speaker 1: wanted to explore and he was just a he was
Speaker 1: larger than his what would normally be for child his age,
Speaker 1: and so he could climb on the counters and get
Speaker 1: into things, and she just said he was a joyful
Speaker 1: little guy who loved dancing and listening to music.
Speaker 7: Right, and during this time when Kevin, the father was
Speaker 7: in prison, was there contact between Michelle and the father
Speaker 7: and did he try to contact Was there that contact
Speaker 7: that father interest from Kevin?
Speaker 1: Yes, although the jury wasn't allowed to hear much of this.
Speaker 1: Brandon had repeatedly written to Michelle Jones asking for pictures
Speaker 1: of his son, and this is after Michelle had taken
Speaker 1: the baby from Arlene. She had precluded Arlene from having
Speaker 1: any contact with him, and so Brandon wrote regularly to Michelle.
Speaker 1: She sent him only one one photograph ever of Brandon,
Speaker 1: and it was a really disturbing photograph because the one
Speaker 1: photograph she sent was a Brandon who was obviously screaming
Speaker 1: and unhappy. But that was the only photograph. After that,
Speaker 1: Michelle cut off all contact between Brandon and Kevin.
Speaker 7: You talk about the Arlene's attempt as the grandmother, that
Speaker 7: was that she didn't really get to see Brandon after
Speaker 7: the time that she gave Brandon back up to Michelle,
Speaker 7: but she made incredible attempts to try to offer babysitting
Speaker 7: any kind of to be able to see Brandon, and
Speaker 7: she was rebuffed, wasn't she?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I mean what you know, sometimes single mothers
Speaker 1: have problems because they don't have babysitters or it gets
Speaker 1: too much for them. Arlene tried in every way she
Speaker 1: could to let Michelle know that she wanted to continue
Speaker 1: to assist Michelle, and in fact, Arlene was so desperate
Speaker 1: that a couple of times she drove by the mosque
Speaker 1: that Michelle had joined when she married. I don't know
Speaker 1: how many times she drove by in an effort to
Speaker 1: try and see Brandon, but she did see him at
Speaker 1: least twice, and Brandon ran into her arms into her car,
Speaker 1: and Michelle claimed that she would let Arlene see him
Speaker 1: at some other point, but really never did.
Speaker 7: Now, part of this investigation from the dedicated Sergeant Crook
Speaker 7: and yourself trying to prosecute this trying to get enough
Speaker 7: evidence to be able to get around Indiana law and
Speaker 7: be able to prosecute this person for something that you
Speaker 7: knew was likely a murder, you knew in your heart
Speaker 7: and definitely Sergeant Crooked did how else does he proceed?
Speaker 7: And you mentioned about the mosque, So tell us a
Speaker 7: little bit about what he finds out about her religiosity
Speaker 7: and some of the people that were surrounding that religious
Speaker 7: interest that she had. That Sergeant Crook was able to find, well, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know that she had religiosity other than joining various groups,
Speaker 1: But what I can say is that shortly after she
Speaker 1: became an adult, and while she was still in foster care,
Speaker 1: she had met Damon Jones. Damon Jones was a musician
Speaker 1: and a dance that she went to, and she became
Speaker 1: involved with Damon who was was very involved with the
Speaker 1: Nation of Islam and was Muslim. And she married Jones
Speaker 1: and became part of the church, and so as a
Speaker 1: result of that, she was involved in those activities. When
Speaker 1: Sergeant Kirk was investigating, he knew that some of the
Speaker 1: members of the mosque had been involved with Michelle. In fact,
Speaker 1: the woman she had been living with at the time
Speaker 1: she checked herself into Wichard was one of the members
Speaker 1: of the mosque, But he hesitated to really contact them
Speaker 1: at that point because he didn't know what the reaction
Speaker 1: would be, So he learned as much as he could
Speaker 1: about Michelle. She was still working at Eli Lilly. She
Speaker 1: had an excellent job with an excellent employer as a
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical company, but in Indianapolis it's known as one of
Speaker 1: the best employers. They provide free daycare for children, they
Speaker 1: provide all sorts of benefits, obviously medical and healthcare. So
Speaker 1: one of the things that we wanted to find out
Speaker 1: and a way to locate him was Sergeant Krook checked
Speaker 1: all of the schools in the area because by the
Speaker 1: time the investigation occurred, Brandon should have been in first
Speaker 1: or second grade, So he checked with all the schools
Speaker 1: to see if Brandon had been registered, both in and
Speaker 1: near the county. We got the Eli Lilly records that
Speaker 1: showed that Brandon had been on Michelle's healthcare for a
Speaker 1: certain period of time and then taken off. That's pretty unusual.
Speaker 1: So those were the things that we began to build
Speaker 1: the evidence. Finally, Mike Krook, apparently, and we had talked
Speaker 1: about this in some ways, Mike Krook filed a missing
Speaker 1: person's report and the juven on Brandon, which I guess
Speaker 1: his father and grandmother just hadn't thought of doing, and
Speaker 1: that got the case into a juvenile court situation.
Speaker 7: Right now, you explained too, that you need a lot
Speaker 7: of evidence to be able to proceed with this. But
Speaker 7: you do have enough evidence for what you call a
Speaker 7: be felony, a class BE felony, and that is regarding neglect.
Speaker 7: So tell our audience about this concept of neglect and
Speaker 7: how serious a sentence that might be in the goal
Speaker 7: of ultimate goal of trying to prosecute for murder.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, of a dependent is a crime in almost every state,
Speaker 1: and I believe every state, but they call it a
Speaker 1: little differently. Neglect of a dependent can be anything from
Speaker 1: a very minor felony to a more major felony, and
Speaker 1: that's based on the type of neglected is. And what
Speaker 1: I think that most people, at least in the South
Speaker 1: are custom to is leaving a child in a hot car.
Speaker 1: That is neglecting your child in a situation that may
Speaker 1: cause serious health problems. In Indiana, neglect of a dependent
Speaker 1: varies based on whether or not the child has actually
Speaker 1: been injured, and if the child is injured or killed
Speaker 1: as a result of Class B felony carrying a potential
Speaker 1: twenty year sentence. And what happened was Michelle in juvenile
Speaker 1: court admitted that Brandon was dead and described vibed and
Speaker 1: had already described to others how he died, which was
Speaker 1: she left him alone. And at that point we felt
Speaker 1: that the case was strong enough to charge her with
Speaker 1: a neglect of independent resulting in serious bodily injury or death.
Speaker 1: And that's what we did, is charged her with the
Speaker 1: B felony.
Speaker 7: Now there's a crucial at least it sounds like in
Speaker 7: this book, that's a very crucial development that you say
Speaker 7: if she had pled guilty, that she couldn't be charged
Speaker 7: for murder later. So tell us what the movie was
Speaker 7: and why do you think Why do you think someone
Speaker 7: made a misstep there? Why someone didn't see the ramifications
Speaker 7: of that, Why would they do that and risk what
Speaker 7: they did.
Speaker 1: Well as a B felony? And because Michelle Jones had
Speaker 1: some sympathetic you know history, being in foster care, being
Speaker 1: as young as she was, being a single mother, it
Speaker 1: was my concern once we charged the B felony that
Speaker 1: she would come in and she would plead guilty to that.
Speaker 1: If she had, there was no minimum mandatory, so she
Speaker 1: could have received probation, she could have received a very
Speaker 1: short sentence. I think it's a matter of arrogance. I
Speaker 1: think that Michelle Jones thought that she was going to
Speaker 1: get away with killing her son. In fact, she chose
Speaker 1: not to take any action other than to fight the charges,
Speaker 1: which she had every right to do and demand a
Speaker 1: jury trial. But that if she had pled to the
Speaker 1: bee felony, because of double jeopardy of the United States Constitution,
Speaker 1: we never could have tried her for murder. She would
Speaker 1: have avoided that charge. And the reason is because, as
Speaker 1: I said, the neglect the way we charged it was
Speaker 1: neglect causing serious bodily injury or death, and that is
Speaker 1: of the same factual basis as a murder would have been.
Speaker 1: And so double jeopardy would have precluded us from charging
Speaker 1: her later with murder if we had found Brandon's body,
Speaker 1: or if we had obtained enough evidence to prove murder,
Speaker 1: but she chose not to.
Speaker 7: Very interesting, I guess movie esque moment happens here when
Speaker 7: Sergeant Krook gets a call. You guys are driving together
Speaker 7: and he gets his call. His disposition turns much different,
Speaker 7: you say, turns white, and he puts the sirens on
Speaker 7: and you're heading to Crownhill Cemetery. Tell us about this call,
Speaker 7: and why on earth you'd be heading to the cemetery
Speaker 7: and what do you find there upon arrival.
Speaker 1: Up to that point, I had thought that Michael Krook
Speaker 1: could not be disturbed by anything. He was one of
Speaker 1: those very experienced homicide guys that you sort of picture
Speaker 1: just unshakable. But as we were driving, this phone call
Speaker 1: came in and lights and sirens. We were headed to
Speaker 1: Crown Hill Cemetery. And Crownhill Cemetery is the oldest and
Speaker 1: largest cemetery in Indianapolis. I've driven by it, I'd never
Speaker 1: been there. But when we got there, we found out
Speaker 1: that someone had left in the children's section against a
Speaker 1: tree something that appeared to be human flesh or a
Speaker 1: lump of human something, And needless to say, it was
Speaker 1: very disturbing. When we arrived, there were a number of
Speaker 1: very high ranking Indianapolis Police Department officers present, and what
Speaker 1: had been found was inside a brown paper bag at
Speaker 1: that point, and as they looked in the bag, there
Speaker 1: was this chunk of red meaty something along with some
Speaker 1: earth and looked like spices, and a white piece of paper.
Speaker 1: On the white piece of paper the Sergeant Crook's name,
Speaker 1: the name of my boss, the elected prosecutor, the names
Speaker 1: pretty much of everyone who had been involved in the case,
Speaker 1: they found, and they all seemed to find it rather disturbing.
Speaker 7: You talk about what they think, is this maybe human flesh?
Speaker 7: And of course everyone's concerned, and you took a look
Speaker 7: in the bag. Tell our audience what ends up this
Speaker 7: being and the relevance to again religion.
Speaker 1: When I looked in the bag, I saw what I
Speaker 1: believed was a beef tongue. It's a large, needy tongue.
Speaker 1: And I grew up in Haiti and was familiar with
Speaker 1: various things related to voodoo. But also I've eaten and
Speaker 1: my mother has cooked beef tongue, so when I saw it,
Speaker 1: to me it was some form of warning. And ultimately
Speaker 1: police also determined, and the medical examiner determined that it
Speaker 1: was a beef tongue, and it became a very important,
Speaker 1: not a clue, but a substantial factor in the credibility
Speaker 1: of witness who later came forward.
Speaker 7: Yes, let's use this as an opportunity. Opportunity, Diane to
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Speaker 7: this new twist in this already incredible case that Santaia, again,
Speaker 7: you were familiar with it because you grew up in Haiti.
Speaker 7: Tell us a little bit more about what they find
Speaker 7: about this witness that comes forward and Santaia, Well, what.
Speaker 1: Really broke the case from a perspective of a murder
Speaker 1: charge was a woman called the Chief Trial Counsel at
Speaker 1: the prosecutor's office. She said that Michelle Jones, who she
Speaker 1: knew as a practitioner of Santa Ria, admitted to her
Speaker 1: that she had beaten Brandon before she abandoned him for
Speaker 1: a week, and when she came home, Brandon had died.
Speaker 1: But that phone call, she didn't leave her name a
Speaker 1: contact information. Even the prosecutor's office way back then had
Speaker 1: an ability to determine what incoming phone members were. And
Speaker 1: so after waiting a day or two, Cal Bradford, the
Speaker 1: Chief Trial Council, called her back, reached her mother and
Speaker 1: it was ultimately spoke with her and found out that
Speaker 1: Michelle had left Indianapolis after the juvenile court action when
Speaker 1: she was charged with neglect, she was on bond, and
Speaker 1: Michelle had gone and tried to use Santa Ria as
Speaker 1: a means of both membership and a community, and had
Speaker 1: used this woman to try and create spells to harm
Speaker 1: and persuade her prosecution, to harm those who were prosecuting her. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: there was there were spells, if you want to call
Speaker 1: them that. Clarissa Dunlap does not call them spells. She
Speaker 1: calls them works. But ultimately there were works, including the
Speaker 1: name of the trial judge. So Michelle had gone into
Speaker 1: this Santa Rea group in order to try and keep
Speaker 1: from being prosecuted for murder.
Speaker 7: Now, in this endeavor to try to do that, you
Speaker 7: have a murder charge October twenty second, nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 7: and she's twenty four years old. You talk about that
Speaker 7: in Indiana, prosecutors don't have to go to the grand
Speaker 7: jury to charge someone, and they file instead something called
Speaker 7: an information a charging document. Just briefly explain that difference
Speaker 7: to our audience.
Speaker 1: Sure, in some places and in the federal system, in
Speaker 1: order to charge, particularly a capital crime such as murder,
Speaker 1: a grand jury is convened, and that's normally twenty six
Speaker 1: members of the community who hear the prosecution side of
Speaker 1: the evidence and make a determination as to whether or
Speaker 1: not there is probable cause to believe that a crime
Speaker 1: has been committed, and if they believe that, then an
Speaker 1: indictment can be found. It's famously been said by one
Speaker 1: of our well loved jurists that a good prosecutor could
Speaker 1: indict a ham sandwich in Indiana. Rather in Indiana, rather
Speaker 1: than going through the time, the cost, the expense. A
Speaker 1: prosecutor can charge an individual with any crime by filing
Speaker 1: an information. What happens when the document is filed is
Speaker 1: that a court a judge acts instead of a grand
Speaker 1: jury to review the evidence and determine whether or not
Speaker 1: there is probable cause for the information, and the judge
Speaker 1: has to sign off on the information. But essentially the
Speaker 1: judge is substituted for a grand jury proceeding. Now, Indiana
Speaker 1: still has a grand jury, but they use them in
Speaker 1: different ways for very complicated corruption or you know, large
Speaker 1: conspiracy cases.
Speaker 7: You talk about another witness contacting prosecution. I'm and her
Speaker 7: name is Jenn Morris, who is Janet Morris and what
Speaker 7: does she has to have to say to prosecution Prosecutors.
Speaker 1: Remember, we're putting together a case without the body, so
Speaker 1: we have to prove that a murder happened, and that
Speaker 1: the murder happened in the way that we claim it did,
Speaker 1: which is Michelle had said that she had left branded
Speaker 1: home alone in his apartment at the Georgetown Apartments. We'd
Speaker 1: gone to the Georgetown apartment, meaning Sergeant Crook and myself,
Speaker 1: and when we'd been able to find not on the carpet,
Speaker 1: because three tenants had been in the same apartment since Michelle,
Speaker 1: and each time a tenant left or was about to
Speaker 1: move in, they claimed the carpet. But when we pulled
Speaker 1: up the carpet, under the carpet, in the pad we
Speaker 1: had found some human DNA which we believed was likely
Speaker 1: to be blood. When the testing was done, the DNA
Speaker 1: was too degraded to determine that the court would not
Speaker 1: allow the jury to hear about it. But we still
Speaker 1: knew that something had happened in that apartment. So this
Speaker 1: phone call came in and it was from the manager
Speaker 1: of the apartment who had rented the apartment to Michelle. Jones.
Speaker 1: She recalled and this was after some publicity in the newspaper.
Speaker 1: That's how she came forward. People were learning about the
Speaker 1: case and were obviously it was pretty high profile. She
Speaker 1: related to us a day that she said she'd never forget.
Speaker 1: As she was doing her inspection around the apartment buildings,
Speaker 1: she came to the apartment that Michelle Jones had rented.
Speaker 1: It was a first floor apartment and the window nearest
Speaker 1: the parking lot and the sidewalk was the smallest bedroom,
Speaker 1: which we knew was Brandon's. As she came by this
Speaker 1: bedroom window on a summer day, she saw thousands, thousands
Speaker 1: of flies swarming in the bedroom.
Speaker 7: Yeah, incredible. Another incredible witness comes forward or that you
Speaker 7: are able to find out who she is. And this
Speaker 7: talks about we talked about Michelle being talented and appreciated
Speaker 7: and doing a lot of volunteer work. You find out
Speaker 7: about all that theater work and Deborah Assante and this, ironically,
Speaker 7: you know her involvement, Michelle's involvement in children's theater. And
Speaker 7: you say they met in eighty eight or eighty nine.
Speaker 7: Tell us a little bit about what Deborah Assante tells Sergeant.
Speaker 1: Group Deborah Asante created a children's theater in the black
Speaker 1: community in Indianapolis, which was an incredible thing. This woman
Speaker 1: engaged children from all socioeconomic backgrounds to participate in the
Speaker 1: arts and to encourage them in the arts. She also
Speaker 1: served as a mentor for a mother's program for teenage
Speaker 1: mothers in her community, and it was through that program
Speaker 1: that she met Michelle Jones and mentored her for a
Speaker 1: brief time, and later Michelle Jones came to the children's
Speaker 1: theater and became an intricate part of that theater for
Speaker 1: a period of time. Deborah Assante had actually taken Michelle convention.
Speaker 1: She didn't describe it as a convention, more of a
Speaker 1: get together of theater groups throughout the country for the
Speaker 1: period of time that was ultimately determined. That was the
Speaker 1: period of time that Michelle had left Brandon at a
Speaker 1: four year old child home alone for at least four
Speaker 1: and maybe more days.
Speaker 7: She had asked, like a concerned person might or a
Speaker 7: friend might, where Brandon was and what was Michelle's response
Speaker 7: to who was taking care of Brandon while they're in Detroit.
Speaker 1: Well, Michelle misled her. Obviously. Michelle said that Brandon was
Speaker 1: with a babysitter, and in fact, Brandon had stayed at
Speaker 1: periods of time with a babysitter named Lateva Parker Mohammad.
Speaker 1: But Brandon was alone and Michelle not only left him there,
Speaker 1: but during this event that she attended with Deborah Assante,
Speaker 1: had a very good time.
Speaker 7: Talk about the four days you talk about the really
Speaker 7: good time. She also confides in her friend that while
Speaker 7: she's on this trip that's a business and some pleasure
Speaker 7: in networking, that she also meets someone when you talked
Speaker 7: about four days, possibly more, and later we'll find out where.
Speaker 7: She says she was gone for about a week. I
Speaker 7: don't think you spell it out completely, But is there
Speaker 7: a possibility she didn't go. Did she spend any other
Speaker 7: days rather than those four days and with this man
Speaker 7: just to add even more sinister nature to her time
Speaker 7: away from her son, No, I don't think. So.
Speaker 8: We know that after she returned and Brandon was dead,
Speaker 8: that within a few weeks she did go to Georgia
Speaker 8: to visit the.
Speaker 1: Man she'd met at this okay, it's theater group. But
Speaker 1: it appeared that she went home right after the convention
Speaker 1: because she was driving Debora Sante.
Speaker 7: Okay, okay, I misunderstood. Now let's talk about Latava Mohammed
Speaker 7: and what her role was and with Brandon and with Michelle,
Speaker 7: and what she had to say about the last few days.
Speaker 1: Latava, like Deborah Sante, is this incredibly maternal, sort of lovely,
Speaker 1: caring woman. She and her husband were part of the mosque,
Speaker 1: and she had children who were Her son was about
Speaker 1: a year or two older than Brandon, and she had
Speaker 1: offered and had uh and Michelle had taken her up
Speaker 1: on babysitting Brandon while Michelle was at work, because Michelle
Speaker 1: worked days at Lily and then did a number of
Speaker 1: things at night. So Latava Parker took Brandon and just
Speaker 1: really again, he was just this endearing, doe eyed child.
Speaker 1: She saw him at the last at the last time
Speaker 1: he was publicly seen, and at her son's birthday party,
Speaker 1: and Brandon had been invited to the birthday party, and
Speaker 1: she had Latava had expected Michelle to pick Brandon up
Speaker 1: that evening, you know, attend the party with the other kids,
Speaker 1: and in fact, without a phone call or anything else,
Speaker 1: Michelle had just left him there for a couple of days.
Speaker 7: You talk about the talk of how he was in
Speaker 7: the home he who does he mentioned or pardon me,
Speaker 7: who does Michelle mentioned to the provision she's left for
Speaker 7: this child when she goes for the four day trip
Speaker 7: to Detroit.
Speaker 1: Interestingly, yeah, to one of her friends, Candisha Amir, who's
Speaker 1: also known as Mahelia Amir, and Candisha is friends with
Speaker 1: and is in the same general age group as Latava Parker,
Speaker 1: is a little younger than Deborah Chante. Kadisha also had
Speaker 1: a child who was in the theater group, and Michelle
Speaker 1: was staying with her for a period of time. When
Speaker 1: Kevin Simms was able to determine that Michelle was living
Speaker 1: with Kadisha Emir, he and his mother knocked on the
Speaker 1: door of Kadisha Emir to try and find Michelle, and
Speaker 1: that's the quote that she talked about from the beginning
Speaker 1: of the book. Katisha then brought Deborah Chante to the
Speaker 1: house and the two of them confronted Michelle and said, Michelle,
Speaker 1: where's Brandon?
Speaker 7: Before we talk about that the incredible statement made to
Speaker 7: Kevin and his grandmother when they're looking for Brandon? What
Speaker 7: are they told? What they were told by Michelle to
Speaker 7: Kevin and as mother's horror, well.
Speaker 1: For two years, Michelle had told Kadisha, Deborah anyone she
Speaker 1: spoke with, that Kevin had Brandon, even though Kevin was
Speaker 1: actually in prison, that Kevin had married and he and
Speaker 1: his wife had Brandon, or alternatively, she had said that
Speaker 1: Brandon was with Arlene Blevins and they had not seen him.
Speaker 7: So now the confrontation from Deborah Sante and Kadisha in there.
Speaker 7: What does Michelle admit to and what's their reaction? What
Speaker 7: do they advise?
Speaker 1: Michelle claims that she left a little plate of food
Speaker 1: for Brandon in his room and then left him for days.
Speaker 1: She says that when she returned, Brandon was dead. She
Speaker 1: was terrified. She wrapped him in a blanket, put him
Speaker 1: in the car, and laid him alongside a roadway.
Speaker 7: She is crying in this explanation. She seems to be
Speaker 7: very very stressed. What are these two friends recommend that
Speaker 7: she do as a result.
Speaker 1: Well, they obviously cared about her. Deborah Sante said that
Speaker 1: she was so shocked she couldn't even listen, but Kadisha
Speaker 1: Emir suggested that she get counseling, and Kadisha Emir went
Speaker 1: with her and sat with her through the admissions process
Speaker 1: at the psyche unit. At Wishard Memorial Hospital.
Speaker 7: Incredible. Now in this too, there's another very profound issue,
Speaker 7: I guess, and it's really I guess relevant, and I'll
Speaker 7: get you to explain this. Even though he's a four
Speaker 7: year old boy, he is diagnosed with a condition, and
Speaker 7: that condition has certain characteristics within So what is his condition?
Speaker 7: And then who does Michelle tell about this condition and
Speaker 7: her reaction to that diagnosis and Brandon's future.
Speaker 1: When Brandon was about two, Arlene Blevins noticed that he
Speaker 1: was growing too fast and had some characteristics more appropriate
Speaker 1: it for a much older little guy. And so, because
Speaker 1: Michelle had very good insurance to really Michelle took him
Speaker 1: to a pediatric specialist, and the pediatric specialist determined that
Speaker 1: Brandon had what's called precocious puberty, and it's a child
Speaker 1: who grows and develops way too quickly. And so Brandon,
Speaker 1: by the time he was three and a half, had
Speaker 1: hair and places that most folks don't, and genitals were
Speaker 1: developing more rapidly, and the doctor had strongly recommended treatment.
Speaker 1: It doesn't stop, but it slows these things from happening.
Speaker 1: And the reason for that is ultimately the ultimate result
Speaker 1: is the children are very very short. They grow rapidly,
Speaker 1: but then when they should be growing, they don't. When
Speaker 1: the final diagnosis came in, Brandon was still living with Arlene,
Speaker 1: and of course Arlene wanted to know what the doctor
Speaker 1: had said, and Michelle told her what the condition was,
Speaker 1: but then commented, I ain't going to raise no freak.
Speaker 7: Incredible. Let's fast forward to the trial, because needless to say,
Speaker 7: you have more than enough evidence, regardless of the standards.
Speaker 7: Tell us a little bit, because we don't have too
Speaker 7: much time, but tell us some of the highlight rights
Speaker 7: of this trial. You do write that, of course it's
Speaker 7: a defense that's and challenges and endless motions and argumentive,
Speaker 7: and you even say across the line in some areas
Speaker 7: you believed. But tell us what the most important parts
Speaker 7: of this trial were in terms of obstacles for you
Speaker 7: for this prosecution.
Speaker 1: Well, the key witness in the case, Clarissa Dunlap, was
Speaker 1: the Santa Rea priestess in a very conservative Heartland city,
Speaker 1: presenting that evidence because she is the only witness to
Speaker 1: whom Michelle confessed having actually beaten Brandon before leaving him
Speaker 1: right and so dealing with that presenting her an incredible
Speaker 1: way and building. The other poorted that theory for example,
Speaker 1: and this is you know, jurors actually commented at a
Speaker 1: later point, why would why would the mother have to
Speaker 1: leave a little plate of food for a four year
Speaker 1: old who was capable of opening the refrigerator himself. So
Speaker 1: it's the putting together of those small details. Why would
Speaker 1: a child? You know, we tried to present evidence that
Speaker 1: there was no lock on the door and that Brandon
Speaker 1: was capable of getting water and accessing food in the
Speaker 1: house if there had been food. So I think the
Speaker 1: condish Emir was an extremely important witness and course of
Speaker 1: Dunlop was subject to all sorts of attack by a
Speaker 1: variety of individuals, and I didn't suggest that. I mean,
Speaker 1: the defense certainly tried very hard and did what they're
Speaker 1: obligated to do in a trial. There was some personal
Speaker 1: attacks on me, you know, but that comes with the territory,
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Now, in this you were successful in getting the
Speaker 7: verdict that you wanted. What is Michelle Jones demeanor like
Speaker 7: during this whole thing?
Speaker 1: I never Michelle was, and I believe still live an
Speaker 1: attractive woman. She never had any facial expressions. I never
Speaker 1: heard her speak a word until the sentencing. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: she certainly seemed to speak with her lawyers, and I
Speaker 1: saw her, I mean many times whispering to them. But she,
Speaker 1: you know, she just she certainly did not express grief
Speaker 1: over Branded, one of the things that I mean, her
Speaker 1: lawyers never mentioned Branded.
Speaker 7: Yeah, what was that statement at sentencing?
Speaker 1: At sentencing she said she wasn't a murderer, and it
Speaker 1: was a very short statement. Her lawyers had put on
Speaker 1: a great deal of evidence and hired you know, jury
Speaker 1: consult I'm sorry, sentencing consultants and all of that. But
Speaker 1: Michelle said she was sorry for the pain that she
Speaker 1: had caused Kevin and Arleen, but never mentioned Brandon and
Speaker 1: never showed us the true place where Brandon's body was.
Speaker 7: Right. What was the media response? You write about it,
Speaker 7: but we haven't spoken about it. How did the media
Speaker 7: treat this? Was there a circus?
Speaker 1: There wasn't a circus. The newspaper really was certainly was
Speaker 1: highly publicized, but they were very respectful. I mean, this
Speaker 1: was the death of a small child, so I felt
Speaker 1: that they were very respectful of all the parties.
Speaker 7: What was the jury let event, Well, that's a new one.
Speaker 7: What was what was the verdict, and did it take
Speaker 7: a long time for them to come to their decision?
Speaker 7: What was their verdict?
Speaker 1: It didn't. It was very surprising after a week long trial.
Speaker 1: I believe they were out a little over two hours.
Speaker 1: The jury found Michelle guilty on all of the both
Speaker 1: of murder and neglect of in dependent causing serious bodily injury.
Speaker 1: In this case, the jury had been allowed to answer
Speaker 1: ask questions during the trial, and so I believe that
Speaker 1: that may have helped them get the responses that they
Speaker 1: needed to come to a verdict.
Speaker 7: Now, in this book, you talk about the verdict, sentence
Speaker 7: and the reaction in the community, and of course you
Speaker 7: talk about how you felt as well. But you do
Speaker 7: talk about it an event that preempted this book. And
Speaker 7: a journalist contacts you, and you had gotten the transcripts
Speaker 7: from this trial that you prosecuted. So tell us what
Speaker 7: your feelings are, and it might surprise some people your
Speaker 7: feelings about rehabilitation and as you write, redemption.
Speaker 1: Well, after this case and others, I became a judicial
Speaker 1: officer in Indiana and a magistrate master commissioner, and I
Speaker 1: believe in rehabilitation. I believe that we send people to prison. Yes,
Speaker 1: to punish them, but also to help them become better people.
Speaker 1: And Michelle Jones spent twenty years in prison, did a
Speaker 1: number of positive things and was accepted to Harvard on
Speaker 1: a full scholarship to obtain a PhD. What I expressed
Speaker 1: was that I believe it's important that after someone has
Speaker 1: served their sins and served their time, that we give
Speaker 1: them opportunities. And I continue to believe that, and that
Speaker 1: withdrawing her scholarship was not a wise decision. It also
Speaker 1: kept the wealth of knowledge just about being in prison
Speaker 1: and a number of other things that she could have
Speaker 1: shared away from the students. But I also suggested, and
Speaker 1: the article talked about that Michelle Jones had received redemption,
Speaker 1: and I highly question that. I don't know that anyone
Speaker 1: is ever redeemed from torturing and killing their four year
Speaker 1: old child.
Speaker 7: Yeah. Absolutely, Sergeant Crook, you were work closely with him
Speaker 7: with this. What was your reaction after what any comments,
Speaker 7: any contacts, anything to say about Sergeant Crook?
Speaker 1: Well, he left the he retired from the Indiana from
Speaker 1: the Indianapolis Police Department, which is now the Indiannapolis Marion
Speaker 1: County Police Department, and he is the chief of the
Speaker 1: Cumberland Police Department in Indiana, Indiana. I think Cumberland has
Speaker 1: one heck of a good investigative chief Sergeant Crook and
Speaker 1: I never became close friends, but I consider him an
Speaker 1: exceptional human being and investigator police officer.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, it is. Your book is really a testament to
Speaker 7: his dedication as well and yours in this particular case.
Speaker 7: And it was a fascinating story Inconvenience Gone. I want
Speaker 7: to thank you very much for coming on and talking
Speaker 7: about Inconvenience Gone, the tragic short life of Brandon Simms.
Speaker 7: This is Is this a Wild Blue Press publication? And
Speaker 7: is there? Do you have a website for this book
Speaker 7: or Facebook page? Can you tell us a little bit
Speaker 7: about that?
Speaker 1: Contact there is Wild Blue Press is the way to contact.
Speaker 1: But of course the book is available on kindle and
Speaker 1: in print, and there will be an audiobook a bit
Speaker 1: all of those to Wild Blue Press.
Speaker 7: That's fantastic. I want to thank you very much, Diane
Speaker 7: Margor Moore for this interview. It has been fascinating. I
Speaker 7: hope to talk to you again real soon. Thank you
Speaker 7: very much for this interview.
Speaker 1: Thank you, good night,