WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>You can see different types of assets that it did

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<v Speaker 1>not necessarily make sense for someone to go through an

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<v Speaker 1>IPO type transaction to offer them. But assuming the SEC

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<v Speaker 1>does start to regulate more in a way that it

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<v Speaker 1>allows for a more fluid and efficient way to do

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<v Speaker 1>those tokenizations that will unlock classes of assets if there's

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<v Speaker 1>not a good traditional market. Analog for.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by I Trust Capital.

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<v Speaker 2>I Trust Capital allows you to invest in crypto as

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<v Speaker 2>well as precious metals like gold and silver via an

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<v Speaker 2>IRA and this gives you huge tax advantages, so you

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<v Speaker 2>can invest in over ninety crypto assets including bitcoin, etherorem XRP, Solana,

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<v Speaker 2>and many more. You also get access to stable coins

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<v Speaker 2>such as Circles USDC and Ripples r L USD. And

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<v Speaker 2>as it relates to precious metals, you can invest in

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<v Speaker 2>gold and silver and these are the physical assets, so

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<v Speaker 2>you're not in investing in paper gold and silver. So

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<v Speaker 2>on this platform you can redeem the gold and silver

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<v Speaker 2>if you choose to, and not many platforms offer that. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>the big advantage to investing via I Trust Capital's IRA

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<v Speaker 2>is the huge tax advantages many of you know you

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<v Speaker 2>incur capital gains taxes when you sell at a gain,

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<v Speaker 2>while you can minimize the effect of some of that

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<v Speaker 2>by doing it via an IRA, especially if you have

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<v Speaker 2>a long term view on crypto as well as precious metals,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can buy and sell crypto in precious metals

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four to seven. It's low cost and a monthly feet,

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<v Speaker 2>so this is a great option to get exposure to

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<v Speaker 2>these two great asset classes. And in addition, they have

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<v Speaker 2>a great custody solution. It's called Premium Custody account, so

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<v Speaker 2>it uses institutional great crypto custody such as coinbas Prime,

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<v Speaker 2>which black Rop leverages. I Trust also uses fidelity digital

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<v Speaker 2>assets as well as fireblocks, and it's a closed loop

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<v Speaker 2>system so if someone hacks it to your account, they

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<v Speaker 2>can't withdraw funds. I believe this is the second safest

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<v Speaker 2>way to custody your assets, right behind self custody where

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<v Speaker 2>you control the private keys and within the custody account

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<v Speaker 2>you coul buy and sell twenty four to seven. It's

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<v Speaker 2>low fees, so this is a great option for custody

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<v Speaker 2>of your assets and you can sleep at night knowing

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<v Speaker 2>that you're getting the institutional great custodial services. So once

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<v Speaker 2>again two great products here from I Trust Capital, the

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<v Speaker 2>IRRA where you can roll over your existing four one

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<v Speaker 2>K or IRA to I Trust Capitalist version, getting the

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<v Speaker 2>huge tax advantages and the institutional custody and folks, if

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<v Speaker 2>you sign up with my link at I Trustcapital dot

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<v Speaker 2>com slash Go slash Thinking Crypto, you could get a

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred dollars funding bonus. I have an account with

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<v Speaker 2>I Trust Capital, so I encourage you to go check

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<v Speaker 2>out I Trust Capital, learn about their services and see

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<v Speaker 2>if it's right for you. Again, you can get one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars funding bonus by signing up via my link

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<v Speaker 2>which is I Trustcapital dot com slash Go slash Thinking Crypto.

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<v Speaker 2>Link will be in the description. Hey, folks, welcome into

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<v Speaker 2>the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward and

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<v Speaker 2>joining me today's Ashley Ebersol, who is the co founder

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<v Speaker 2>and chief legal office at TX, which is a unified

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<v Speaker 2>operating system and marketplace where real world assets that facilitates

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<v Speaker 2>the digital issuance, trading, and settlement of tokenized assets through

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<v Speaker 2>a global network of regulated partners.

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<v Speaker 3>Ashley, great to have you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for having me Tony. It's great to

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<v Speaker 1>be here with you. And yeah, looking forward to our.

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<v Speaker 2>Discussion absolutely, and I'm so excited to dive into what

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<v Speaker 2>TX is doing because tokenization is all the rage right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Many firms and institutions, many of the trad five firms,

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<v Speaker 2>are all looking to tokenize assets. And you also spend

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of time at the SEC. So I have

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of questions for you, But let's start with

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<v Speaker 2>your background. Where are you from and your professional background.

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<v Speaker 1>I am one of the few natives from Washington, d C.

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<v Speaker 1>In the center of the city, and I currently live there.

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<v Speaker 1>I was gone for ten twelve years, including in about

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<v Speaker 1>three years in New York law school, down in Nashville, Norfolk, Virginia, Cleveland,

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<v Speaker 1>Ohio clerking for judges, and then back in d C.

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<v Speaker 1>Since then, so it's uh, it's been and actually in

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<v Speaker 1>almost a year in Mexico City, which was great when

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<v Speaker 1>I was in finance. But yeah, now in d C,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's a great place to be at the center

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<v Speaker 1>of a lot going on in the in this space.

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<v Speaker 2>Now. You spent about over four years at the SEC

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<v Speaker 2>as Senior Council.

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<v Speaker 3>Tell us about your time there and some of the

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<v Speaker 3>work you did.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure it was, it was it was almost five years

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<v Speaker 1>slightly less, but I you know, coming in I had

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<v Speaker 1>been at Scadden for for almost six years and had

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<v Speaker 1>done a lot of SEC regulatory work and defense work,

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<v Speaker 1>So initially it was just the other side of that,

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<v Speaker 1>which you know, was a great learning experience. But pretty

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<v Speaker 1>early on I had the opportunity to work on the

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<v Speaker 1>early world groups there that were looking at crypto assets

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<v Speaker 1>and blockchain technology and how should these assets be treated,

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<v Speaker 1>how was the SEC going to look at them, to

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<v Speaker 1>engage with the technology groups. Members of our working group

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<v Speaker 1>issued the Dow Report in the summer of twenty seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>that established the SEC has jurisdiction over it. If it's

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<v Speaker 1>a security, it doesn't matter or what the underlying technology

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<v Speaker 1>is by which it's being offered. And from there, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of enforcement initially, just sort of

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<v Speaker 1>lay down boundary markers. I candidly thought it would shift

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<v Speaker 1>at some point to doing the prescriptive work of regulation.

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<v Speaker 1>It didn't while I was there. It seems that work

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<v Speaker 1>is finally starting now, which is great. Paul Atkins is

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<v Speaker 1>a visionary leader there and he really sees the potential

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<v Speaker 1>of this technology and is finally leading the hard work

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<v Speaker 1>to modernize the markets.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's been quite a journey for the SEC.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, you worked under the tenure of the

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<v Speaker 2>two chairs Mary Joe White as well as Jay Clayton,

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<v Speaker 2>and I know this technology was still very young back

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<v Speaker 2>then and everyone who was trying to figure out what

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<v Speaker 2>is it, how does it work? So it wasn't the

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<v Speaker 2>natural progression, you know, over the years that everybody was

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<v Speaker 2>figuring out their regulators and now to your point, under

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<v Speaker 2>a chair Atkins, we're now getting some of the rulemaking

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<v Speaker 2>and guidance and so forth.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that is the natural progression. We're missing about

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<v Speaker 1>four years where the SEC was really no other way

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<v Speaker 1>to put it than other than hostile. Yeah, and that

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<v Speaker 1>was a huge missed opportunity. I was at a law

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<v Speaker 1>firm at that time leading the crypto practice, and for

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<v Speaker 1>about a year you could still engage with the SEC.

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<v Speaker 1>You could talk to them about projects and why you

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<v Speaker 1>thought of certain securities law of treatment applied to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>some aspect of this business and you know, maybe some

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<v Speaker 1>sort of exempt of relief was proper or something. They

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<v Speaker 1>those meetings became impossible to schedule eventually after check Gensler

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<v Speaker 1>got there, and you know, you didn't you couldn't have them,

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<v Speaker 1>So that had two real effects. I mean they yes,

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<v Speaker 1>they lost the opportunity to do the regulatory work, so

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<v Speaker 1>we're way behind where we could be. But also the

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<v Speaker 1>SEC lost all of the expertise and technical know how

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<v Speaker 1>that was in the industry and continue to develop in

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<v Speaker 1>the industry. Had they there been a fluid conversation, the

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<v Speaker 1>SEC would have stayed abreast of all that rather than

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<v Speaker 1>having to read about it. So it was really a shame.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, we're back on the right track now,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, the SEC is is being extremely productive in

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<v Speaker 1>what they're doing.

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<v Speaker 2>Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm the host of

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<v Speaker 2>the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to ask you if

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<v Speaker 2>you can please support the podcast by hitting the like

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<v Speaker 2>button subscribing. If you haven't as yet, you can leave

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<v Speaker 2>a comment below as well. And if you're listening on

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<v Speaker 2>a podcast platform such as Spotify, Apple or wherever you

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<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts, please be sure to follow and hit

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<v Speaker 2>the five star rating. I'll let you get back to

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<v Speaker 2>the content. Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, you are.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously in the legal field as a you know, counsel

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<v Speaker 2>and these things. What made you decide to or what

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<v Speaker 2>was the moment that you said, you know, I see

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<v Speaker 2>this technology, this is an industry I want to go

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<v Speaker 2>work but also be a founder. You know, what was

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<v Speaker 2>your aha moment?

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<v Speaker 1>I think once I started working with the technology more deeply,

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<v Speaker 1>I left. So I left b CLP the law firm

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<v Speaker 1>in summer of twenty two to become general counsel at

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<v Speaker 1>zero X, the big defive platform. And that was really,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess, sort of the leap of leaving a very

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<v Speaker 1>familiar environment for me by that point of law firms

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<v Speaker 1>to go to a startup and learn all their technology

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<v Speaker 1>as best I could. I mean, don't look at me

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<v Speaker 1>to code neithering, but to understand the technology and what

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<v Speaker 1>it could do. And really that, you know, really just

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<v Speaker 1>cemented my focus on certainly stay abreast of all the

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<v Speaker 1>financial regulatory laws, all the securities laws and developments there.

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<v Speaker 1>That's just necessary. But having this specific application in the

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<v Speaker 1>crypto space, it really introduces problems that are they just

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<v Speaker 1>don't exist anywhere else, and it makes it really interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why I got into it the sec in the

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<v Speaker 1>first place. You know, it's you're back to the early

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<v Speaker 1>days of the securities laws to see a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the scenarios that have played out in this industry where

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<v Speaker 1>you had read about them in you know, legal textbooks

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<v Speaker 1>and like, well, yeah, but when could that ever happen?

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<v Speaker 1>But it did happen then in the crypto industry because

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<v Speaker 1>it was a technology that was just growing and just

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<v Speaker 1>sort of get in its footing. So yeah, it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>been extremely interesting and continues to be so.

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<v Speaker 2>On that note, the how we test right served its

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<v Speaker 2>purpose for the time period that was in and you

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<v Speaker 2>know the type of products we have, stocks and so forth.

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<v Speaker 2>But with crypto coming along with tokens that are on

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<v Speaker 2>distributed networks across the globe, do you believe the how

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<v Speaker 2>we test needs to be expanded to include tokens and

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<v Speaker 2>coins or its separate test has to be created for

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<v Speaker 2>these instruments.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's just the nature of law. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>not going to be a satisfying explanation for a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people in the industry, but it's just the nature

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<v Speaker 1>of securities law that it's principles based. So even though

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<v Speaker 1>the Howie test was about orange groves in Florida and

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<v Speaker 1>people investing in them, you can't just say, well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but these aren't oranges. So it doesn't apply. I mean it,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the ideas apply. At the same time, I

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<v Speaker 1>do think there's a lot that hasn't been clear about

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<v Speaker 1>the way the sec has applied it. A lot of

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<v Speaker 1>damage was done by the very aggressive four years under

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<v Speaker 1>Chairman Gensler, where there were legal theories advanced that just

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<v Speaker 1>did not have any basis in existing law, and it

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<v Speaker 1>was a sort of essentially the best way to describe

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<v Speaker 1>it is they were trying to come up with new

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<v Speaker 1>legal theories of why cryptotokens themselves were securities. There's no

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely no law for that. The law is around selling

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<v Speaker 1>an opportunity to investors. Of you invest in this opportunity,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to do the work to develop it. You're

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<v Speaker 1>going to reap the proceeds. That's the sort of simplest

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<v Speaker 1>way to explain how we whether you're investing in a

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<v Speaker 1>token based project, whether you're investing in Orange Groves, whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>They tried to come up with things like, well, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not actually just that scenario, it's the token itself can

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<v Speaker 1>be a security because everything that's said in marketing that

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<v Speaker 1>scenario gets somehow physically embody physically embodied in the token

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<v Speaker 1>and travels with the token like that. There's no law

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<v Speaker 1>for that, you know, Like I mean, I you hold

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<v Speaker 1>a physical share of IBM, I could buy it from

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<v Speaker 1>you for five bucks and you give it to me

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<v Speaker 1>like that, you know is not We haven't done anything

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<v Speaker 1>that that violated the law there, you know. And you

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<v Speaker 1>also didn't I mean, I transferred ownership of a security

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<v Speaker 1>because you had to be the share certificate. The share

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<v Speaker 1>certificate itself wasn't the security. If you had told me, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm supposed to become chairman of ip IBM

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<v Speaker 1>tomorrow and I'm going to do all these new things,

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<v Speaker 1>and so you, as an IBM stockholder, are really going

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<v Speaker 1>to profit, you should buy this share from me for

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<v Speaker 1>an inflated price, and that would start to look more

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<v Speaker 1>like a securities transaction because there's you know, promises being made,

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<v Speaker 1>representations about what you're gonna do. You know, my reasonable

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<v Speaker 1>expectation would be like all that stuff sounds good, good,

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<v Speaker 1>And I trust that guy, and you know, I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to rely on him and to to generate profits and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to do anything. I'm a passive shareholder.

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<v Speaker 1>He's going to do all the work. Sure, So that's

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<v Speaker 1>how he you know, how he is not the piece

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<v Speaker 1>of paper is somehow a security.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, it's it's the contract around it or the

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<v Speaker 2>scheme to speak, great, Yeah, exactly, it's the investment scheme

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<v Speaker 2>is yah, which scheme always has a little bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a nefarious contact the investment out of the.

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<v Speaker 3>Plan, right yeah, yeah for sure. So let's talk about

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<v Speaker 3>t X. What is TX and what is the.

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<v Speaker 1>Missione TX is a platform that connects regulated entities globally

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<v Speaker 1>UH for purposes of tokenization. It allows investors to find

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<v Speaker 1>tokenhosed opportunities tokenized asset opportunities that are being issued via

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<v Speaker 1>those regulated entities U in and to you know, also

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<v Speaker 1>should they be entities that want to issue tokenized assets,

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<v Speaker 1>they can find those regulated tokenization providers and they can

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<v Speaker 1>you know, use them to transact. So it's really sort

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<v Speaker 1>of the connective tissue from a technical technological perspective for

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<v Speaker 1>the industry.

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<v Speaker 2>It's kind of like a tokenized asset marketplace that where

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<v Speaker 2>builders can come and launch, but also people looking to

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<v Speaker 2>buy tokenized assets or invests they can come and also

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<v Speaker 2>find those assets or bridge connections.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and think about like Amazon and the Amazon marketplace,

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<v Speaker 1>you have marketplace sellers those would be the regulated entities.

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<v Speaker 1>You have all sorts of consumers, some of which are

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<v Speaker 1>small businesses, you know, like so you've got B to B,

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<v Speaker 1>you've got B two C, you've got issue or sellers.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I mean all different facets are represented.

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<v Speaker 2>That's interesting because I haven't heard of any other platform

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<v Speaker 2>like this. I know there's firms like securitizes which help

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<v Speaker 2>companies to launch, but I haven't heard about a marketplace.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is the first time I'm hearing of this.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I think the history of this industry

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<v Speaker 1>is best we can decipher it is you had a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of sort of siloed tokenization projects that would be

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<v Speaker 1>really good at you know, tokenizing real estate or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>doing a very specific thing like figure and like tokenizing

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<v Speaker 1>debt like that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>But.

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<v Speaker 1>Not a problem. A lot of those businesses did fantastically well.

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<v Speaker 1>But the issue with that is you may have all

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of liquidity in that specific asset, but it's pretty

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<v Speaker 1>siloed inside that issuer. And so the idea behind TX was,

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<v Speaker 1>what if you had a way to connect all of

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<v Speaker 1>these regulated issuers and allow consumers to be able to

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<v Speaker 1>see all the opportunities that are available to them and

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<v Speaker 1>sort of discover information about about all these regulated entities

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<v Speaker 1>and and what they're what they're issuing.

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<v Speaker 2>So what type of institutions are leveraging your platform.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the regulated entities that are within the network, broker

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<v Speaker 1>dealers in the US and analogous platforms all over the

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<v Speaker 1>world are using it to Yeah, I mean to reach

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<v Speaker 1>you know, investors, consumers, that kind of thing. And so

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<v Speaker 1>they're sort of the both think of them as both

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<v Speaker 1>the endpoints of of some inbound you know, people looking

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<v Speaker 1>for you know, whatever it is that that that issuer

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<v Speaker 1>is selling, but it's also outbound because obviously you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they're trying to distribute to to investors and they sort

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<v Speaker 1>of depend on that in terms of consumers. Then yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's you would use it the same way

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<v Speaker 1>use Amazon. You know, you're I use it for a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of things. But you know, you say, I, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to invest in Latin American real estate, like

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<v Speaker 1>I want to find an issuer who from whom I

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<v Speaker 1>can purchase tokens like that, or you know, with Solo

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<v Speaker 1>techs our joint venture with US broker dealer, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to invest in US stocks. That's actually kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>big opportunity for a lot of people who have, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>digital wallets, they haven't previously had a chance to buy

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<v Speaker 1>actual stocks that come with voting rights, come with dividends,

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<v Speaker 1>are backed one for one by a share of stock

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<v Speaker 1>that at the time of purchase, a token's mented that

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<v Speaker 1>you can hold in your wallet, but a share of

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<v Speaker 1>stock is also acquired that is held at the at

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<v Speaker 1>the custodian level, the clearing broker. So you know, it

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<v Speaker 1>opens up different asset classes to folks who you know,

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<v Speaker 1>want to transact out of their digital wallets. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>and studies show that for certain age cohorts, they may

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<v Speaker 1>not have a traditional financial account when they get to

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<v Speaker 1>the mindset of I heard I should look at buying stocks.

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<v Speaker 1>I heard the stock market is a good place to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe they'll go and set up traditional financial accounts somewhere,

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<v Speaker 1>but if they have the opportunity to buy solo tech

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<v Speaker 1>stock tokens in their digital wallet, you know, we uh,

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<v Speaker 1>we're happy to uh to serve that need.

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<v Speaker 2>So it sounds like it's an international platform, so folks

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<v Speaker 2>in different parts of the world, institutions as well as

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<v Speaker 2>customers can come and participate.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I mean, we're expanding the network of regulated entities

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<v Speaker 1>as fast as we can. So it's a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>dependent on that, sure, because you know, we don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to and or should we hold the uh the registrations ourselves,

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<v Speaker 1>the regulatory red strations ourselves. But we depend on the

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<v Speaker 1>regulated entities because in the United States and in most jurisdictions,

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<v Speaker 1>the process of tokenizing, you know, whatever the real world

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<v Speaker 1>asset is is a regulated transaction. So we're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to be engaging in that. We're not going to be

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<v Speaker 1>doing the work of uh you know, the legal work

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<v Speaker 1>around it. We're not going to be doing the issuance

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<v Speaker 1>of those assets and then on the consumption. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if it's in the United States, our broker dealer partner

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<v Speaker 1>would be overseeing that. If it's abroad, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>let's say you're in in in the Middle East, you're

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<v Speaker 1>in Dubai. Uh, you know, a VARA regulated entity would

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<v Speaker 1>be ensuring that people who want to come in on

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<v Speaker 1>the ground in Dubai and buy assets from one of

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<v Speaker 1>these other markets. That's all done in compliance with the

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<v Speaker 1>applicable local laws. So it's again we're sort of the

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<v Speaker 1>technology layer connecting these various users, issuers and that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And what are the common assets being tokenized on your platform?

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned real estate? Is it stocks, money market funds

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<v Speaker 2>and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so the solo tech stock tokens, real estate investment

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<v Speaker 1>funds both from the United States and abroad, other sort

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<v Speaker 1>of more esoteric assets like vintage cars and that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of thing that needs to be a little more at

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<v Speaker 1>scale than Sure, it's a lot to do that for

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<v Speaker 1>a single car.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, So sorry enemy theater, But where does a liquidity

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<v Speaker 2>come for something like that when it's that small and

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<v Speaker 2>it's not an asset that has broad reach so to speak.

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<v Speaker 2>That not a real estate you know people, Oh, I know,

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<v Speaker 2>I can get a house in disc region and a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people around the world may want to do that,

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<v Speaker 2>but a car.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't care about cars.

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<v Speaker 2>So how do they find the liquidity and build that market?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess two things are we have market makers

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<v Speaker 1>for these assets. But also yeah, I mean, just like

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<v Speaker 1>you know in the traditional financial markets, there's not a

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<v Speaker 1>buyer for literally every asset. So you know, some some

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<v Speaker 1>issuers are going to be frothier maybe as a way

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<v Speaker 1>to put it, so, or the markets and their assets

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<v Speaker 1>will be frothier than others, And yeah, there will not

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<v Speaker 1>be I do not think there would be a an

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<v Speaker 1>individual car. It would be you know, the end issuer says,

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<v Speaker 1>I've got a collection lead. Yeah, I would think. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, and then there's currency instruments. There's four domestic

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<v Speaker 1>debt intellectual property rights including you know, like streaming rights

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<v Speaker 1>and the rights to revenue streams associated with streaming that

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00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:10.519
<v Speaker 1>kind of thing, which starts to look more like a

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<v Speaker 1>structured finance deal. But yeah, I mean, it's really anything

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<v Speaker 1>that that the issuer wants to put on chain.

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<v Speaker 2>And you mentioned you know, you don't get involved with

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<v Speaker 2>the issuance and the laws and support based on jurisdictions.

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<v Speaker 2>So is it up to the Let's say I want

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<v Speaker 2>to go invest in a certain asset as tokenized on

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<v Speaker 2>the platform, and it comes from an institution in China

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<v Speaker 2>or in whatever country. Just the thing EXA's probably not

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<v Speaker 2>Okay or Hong Kong. Let's say let's put another Singapore.

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<v Speaker 2>Are there like verifications that are done so I know

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<v Speaker 2>this is indeed this institution, here's what the assets custody,

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00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.400
<v Speaker 2>what goes through that process of how do I verify

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00:23:58.119 --> 00:23:58.759
<v Speaker 2>these things?

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<v Speaker 1>So in the United States, and it's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>in in each market, but in the United States, the

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<v Speaker 1>broker dealer has to do due diligence on each of

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<v Speaker 1>these offerings. And there are analogous systems in every major

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<v Speaker 1>market where you know there they have to verify that

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00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:24.599
<v Speaker 1>what is there, what they say is there is there?

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00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:31.839
<v Speaker 1>You know, in the US, a regulated uh qualified custodian

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<v Speaker 1>has to be holding titled to the assets and that

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00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.319
<v Speaker 1>kind of thing. So you know, there is a lot

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00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:41.960
<v Speaker 1>of legal infrastructure around around that. Got it?

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00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:42.440
<v Speaker 3>Got it?

402
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Can an individual like myself if I have a rare

403
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:50.359
<v Speaker 2>basketball rookie card Michael Jordan rookie card example, and I

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00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:51.880
<v Speaker 2>want to tokenize that, Can.

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00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:53.119
<v Speaker 3>I do that as an individual? I have to go

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<v Speaker 3>through an institution.

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<v Speaker 1>You would need to go through the institution. I mean,

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00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:01.440
<v Speaker 1>it would be a little expensive to do that for

409
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:05.359
<v Speaker 1>a rookie card. I think I have not traded in

410
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<v Speaker 1>the cards market since I was a much younger. I

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't a man in my you know, adolescent years. But

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<v Speaker 1>were there to be something sufficiently valuable, you could do

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<v Speaker 1>it as an individual. You would work through the regulated

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<v Speaker 1>identity so you would work through the broker dealer as

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00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:28.119
<v Speaker 1>the individual who holds title that asset and wants to

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<v Speaker 1>tokenize it.

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00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Right, and which blockchains are you supporting that these institutions

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<v Speaker 2>can tokenize on.

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<v Speaker 1>Initially, we have our own layer one TX chain and

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<v Speaker 1>it has a bridge to the XRP ledger. We are

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<v Speaker 1>open to other bridges and we probably will be adding

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<v Speaker 1>those in the near future. But the reason we're most

423
00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.759
<v Speaker 1>comfortable for now sticking with the TX chain is that

424
00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:01.519
<v Speaker 1>t X tokens, so this will be all of the

425
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:06.119
<v Speaker 1>tokenized assets initially that are issued on TX are smart tokens.

426
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:10.440
<v Speaker 1>We presented this to the SEC during our meeting with

427
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:15.359
<v Speaker 1>Crypto Task Force a month or two ago, and what

428
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:20.279
<v Speaker 1>smart token means is that they can be routed by

429
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:24.720
<v Speaker 1>smart contracts, just like most other cryptotokens. But the token

430
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:28.759
<v Speaker 1>itself on the TX chain also has the ability to

431
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:33.000
<v Speaker 1>be programmed, so you can program into that token. This

432
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.519
<v Speaker 1>token can only be transferred to an address that's on

433
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:42.160
<v Speaker 1>this white list, or this token cannot be held in

434
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:47.119
<v Speaker 1>a jurisdiction that's on this sanctioned country's list, like that

435
00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:50.039
<v Speaker 1>kind of thing. Sure, so you know, some of that

436
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.519
<v Speaker 1>can be done purely natively on chain. Some of it

437
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:57.640
<v Speaker 1>requires interaction with oracles. But it's one of the really

438
00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:03.000
<v Speaker 1>cool aspects of txchain that I think, you know a

439
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:05.920
<v Speaker 1>little bit of a laundeerd and maybe you know thinks

440
00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:09.839
<v Speaker 1>that's really cool because of like, oh, that would take

441
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:14.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, checking the jurisdiction of all these people. Otherwise

442
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.039
<v Speaker 1>you have to put in IP blocking and stuff, you know,

443
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:20.079
<v Speaker 1>but if you can have it natively in the token,

444
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:22.920
<v Speaker 1>that solves a lot of problems. And that's why we

445
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:27.079
<v Speaker 1>were talking to the SEC about it, presented it to

446
00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:29.000
<v Speaker 1>them just because we think it has a lot of

447
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.079
<v Speaker 1>applications and from a regulatory perspective too.

448
00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:35.640
<v Speaker 2>I know the SECA if I'm not mistaken, they're currently

449
00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:39.400
<v Speaker 2>working on tokenizing or rules for a tokenization of assets.

450
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:41.519
<v Speaker 3>Do you have any insights there.

451
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Anything that you know of and when we may see

452
00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:46.519
<v Speaker 2>that and is it kind of related to what you

453
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:48.039
<v Speaker 2>were asking them for.

454
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:52.000
<v Speaker 1>We weren't really asking them for them. We were more

455
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:58.279
<v Speaker 1>presenting to them. But the reporting around the innovation exemption

456
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:03.279
<v Speaker 1>that was talking about, you know again about a month

457
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:09.039
<v Speaker 1>or two ago, was that they were close to allowing

458
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.960
<v Speaker 1>trading in you know, some blockchain based uh stocks and

459
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:19.160
<v Speaker 1>that kind of thing. But again the reporting was that

460
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:24.079
<v Speaker 1>there were concerns around the ability to police things like

461
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:29.839
<v Speaker 1>restricting transfer of tokens to you know, certain defined parties

462
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:34.079
<v Speaker 1>or walling off certain jurisdictions, that kind of thing. So

463
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:39.200
<v Speaker 1>I I'm not close enough to the agency to know

464
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:44.559
<v Speaker 1>precisely where that stands currently, I will say t X

465
00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:48.920
<v Speaker 1>tokens could solve a lot of those problems. So you know, maybe, uh, well,

466
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:52.319
<v Speaker 1>we're open to another conversation if if we could be helpful.

467
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:57.480
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, can those tokens be used in DeFi or is

468
00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:59.519
<v Speaker 2>it still too earlier? We need you know, the regulatory

469
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:01.359
<v Speaker 2>clarity who determine.

470
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.920
<v Speaker 1>That you're talking about like the solar tech stock tokens. Yeah,

471
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:11.839
<v Speaker 1>so we're really early on stock tokens and those need

472
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:17.200
<v Speaker 1>the green light from the SEC. But specifically they also

473
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:21.279
<v Speaker 1>need the cooperation of FENRA, the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority,

474
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:28.000
<v Speaker 1>the broker dealer self regulatory organization, because certain exemptions are

475
00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:35.000
<v Speaker 1>needed to allow for trade the way that crypto trades

476
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:40.000
<v Speaker 1>and trade settlement and that kind of thing does not match.

477
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.519
<v Speaker 1>No surprise, when the way the laws were written, you know,

478
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:47.200
<v Speaker 1>decades ago or even you know a few years ago,

479
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.480
<v Speaker 1>so you need to get certain exemptions to allow for

480
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:55.599
<v Speaker 1>you to in the correct way issue you know, tokenized stocks.

481
00:29:56.279 --> 00:30:00.599
<v Speaker 1>So you know our broker dealer partner tech Exture has

482
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:05.119
<v Speaker 1>had those conversations. But the end of those is that

483
00:30:05.240 --> 00:30:10.240
<v Speaker 1>in the initial phase, these you know, the stock tokens

484
00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:13.440
<v Speaker 1>can be sold, held in your digital wallet, you can

485
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:20.640
<v Speaker 1>redeem them back to Solo techts. We believe that in

486
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:24.920
<v Speaker 1>phase two of the Solo Texts project and of tokenization

487
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:32.200
<v Speaker 1>in general, additional secondary market trading maybe possible, but that's

488
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:33.920
<v Speaker 1>probably not going to be there right at the beginning.

489
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:39.240
<v Speaker 2>So talking about the overall aspect of tokenization and where

490
00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:42.960
<v Speaker 2>we're headed in the future of finance, do you see

491
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:46.799
<v Speaker 2>that the current assets that are in the market, that

492
00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:50.279
<v Speaker 2>are listed in exchanges will all be tokenized, or maybe

493
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:53.279
<v Speaker 2>it will be seventy percent of them, because not necessarily

494
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:54.640
<v Speaker 2>everything needs to be tokenized.

495
00:30:54.759 --> 00:31:02.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to give you two answers. To me, it

496
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:06.160
<v Speaker 1>makes logical sense that you will have an entire class

497
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:10.200
<v Speaker 1>of tokenized assets that are things that it doesn't make

498
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:20.079
<v Speaker 1>sense to your example about the individual car, assuming you

499
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:21.759
<v Speaker 1>could find a way for it to make sense to

500
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:25.000
<v Speaker 1>do it on chain because of the efficiencies that brings

501
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:26.440
<v Speaker 1>that kind of thing I mean, you would still need

502
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:28.720
<v Speaker 1>to do the regulatory side of it, and that's often

503
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:36.039
<v Speaker 1>the costly part. But if that's difficult, trying to do

504
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:42.680
<v Speaker 1>that in the traditional space is doubly difficult. I would say. So,

505
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:46.319
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that it's going to be the individual car,

506
00:31:46.359 --> 00:31:49.359
<v Speaker 1>but you can see different types of assets that it

507
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:52.559
<v Speaker 1>did not necessarily make sense for someone to go through

508
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:58.400
<v Speaker 1>an IPO type transaction to offer them. But assuming the

509
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:02.599
<v Speaker 1>SEC does start to regulate more in a way that

510
00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:07.680
<v Speaker 1>allows a whether it's the innovation exemption or whether it's

511
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:13.480
<v Speaker 1>additional regulations being issued, that allows for a more fluid

512
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:19.359
<v Speaker 1>and efficient way to do those tokenizations that will unlock

513
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:22.519
<v Speaker 1>classes of assets that previously you know that there's not

514
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:29.440
<v Speaker 1>a good traditional market analog for you then have what

515
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:33.680
<v Speaker 1>the question you just asked all of the existing traditional assets.

516
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.960
<v Speaker 1>And this also a little bit depends on the SEC,

517
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:44.240
<v Speaker 1>but it also depends on the industry. So there's been

518
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.039
<v Speaker 1>a lot of stories about DTCC in a lot of ways.

519
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.440
<v Speaker 1>The ultimate sort of traditional finance player, the New York

520
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Stock Exchange NASDAK and others doing pilots to explore how

521
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:04.039
<v Speaker 1>they can use blockchain to explore how they can experiment

522
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:08.039
<v Speaker 1>a little more with with crypto assets and technology because

523
00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:15.599
<v Speaker 1>they see its potential obviously, So you can see two

524
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:22.359
<v Speaker 1>different potential worlds happening. One in which yes, you want

525
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:27.640
<v Speaker 1>an on chain representation of every traditional financial asset that's

526
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.920
<v Speaker 1>out there, because you want those to be available to

527
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:35.000
<v Speaker 1>everyone who's transacting on chain, which opens up, you know,

528
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:37.839
<v Speaker 1>the potential for Marcus to trade, you know, twenty three,

529
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:41.200
<v Speaker 1>twenty four hours a day, five days a week, seven

530
00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:44.480
<v Speaker 1>days a week, whatever it is, so a lot more liquidity.

531
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:49.640
<v Speaker 1>But if the SEC goes the route of n DCCC

532
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.000
<v Speaker 1>and the stock exchanges go the route of you know,

533
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:56.480
<v Speaker 1>this technology does bring a lot of efficiencies, and we

534
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:00.640
<v Speaker 1>think it is worth investing in overhauling our markets a

535
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:05.279
<v Speaker 1>little bit to modernize them and bring in technology in

536
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:08.760
<v Speaker 1>a way that we haven't before, and that does it

537
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:13.239
<v Speaker 1>performs functions that have impossible before. Then you can see

538
00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:20.719
<v Speaker 1>it becoming the legal record, of legal authoritative record for

539
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:23.760
<v Speaker 1>all financial transactions, in which case, yeah, you're going to

540
00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:27.519
<v Speaker 1>see movement of everything on chain in a much more

541
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:32.280
<v Speaker 1>full scale way than they currently is.

542
00:34:33.159 --> 00:34:36.119
<v Speaker 2>So in the process of building this infrastructure out, you're

543
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.599
<v Speaker 2>going to have some leaders and some laggards, right, some

544
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:42.239
<v Speaker 2>folks will have tokenized versions of let's say SpaceX, Tesla,

545
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Apple and so forth, but you may have the traditional

546
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:49.239
<v Speaker 2>assets still out there. How do we and this may

547
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:51.320
<v Speaker 2>be something the SEC is thinking about, how do we

548
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:56.000
<v Speaker 2>avoid different price and I don't know, different issues that

549
00:34:56.039 --> 00:34:57.639
<v Speaker 2>may come up because you have two separate markets.

550
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:08.079
<v Speaker 1>Almost so in the initial stage, every tokenized asset needs

551
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:12.079
<v Speaker 1>to be backed by a traditional asset. So with SpaceX,

552
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:15.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, the issue with SpaceX was there was massive

553
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:20.320
<v Speaker 1>demand and limited supply. All of that was going through

554
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:24.559
<v Speaker 1>traditional rails. It's not like there was an on chain

555
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:28.239
<v Speaker 1>supply and a traditional market supply and there were problems,

556
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:30.559
<v Speaker 1>different problems with each it was the same problem. All

557
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:36.119
<v Speaker 1>of them were drawing on the traditional market. So, you know,

558
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:41.280
<v Speaker 1>I think that in terms of assets, you know, being

559
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:47.119
<v Speaker 1>backed and not having a dislocation between prices, as long

560
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:51.719
<v Speaker 1>as there's an actual share underlying each of these tokenized representations,

561
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:56.559
<v Speaker 1>the market makers should be able to sufficiently keep the

562
00:35:56.639 --> 00:36:04.159
<v Speaker 1>price within an acceptable ban of each other. Possible that

563
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:08.840
<v Speaker 1>things come up that were unforeseen, but you know, as

564
00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:11.480
<v Speaker 1>long as the underlying share is still there, it's difficult

565
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:14.400
<v Speaker 1>to see. I think if we do get to a

566
00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:20.280
<v Speaker 1>world where you've got on chain traditional stocks, and then

567
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:26.960
<v Speaker 1>the tokenized representations still there in a parallel market, and

568
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:31.679
<v Speaker 1>the on chain can now settle as quickly as the

569
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:39.519
<v Speaker 1>as the tokenized representations. I don't know, it'd be interesting

570
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:42.400
<v Speaker 1>to watch. We're not there yet. I think if we

571
00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:46.880
<v Speaker 1>get to a world where we do really have parallel markets,

572
00:36:47.719 --> 00:36:51.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, probably you're going to start to see one, yeah,

573
00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:54.199
<v Speaker 1>potentially being priced more as a as a derivative. I

574
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:57.000
<v Speaker 1>don't know, it'll be interesting to watch and and to

575
00:36:57.079 --> 00:36:57.559
<v Speaker 1>think through.

576
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:00.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure some people are going to try to arbitrage trade.

577
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:02.920
<v Speaker 1>As the arbitrage isn't there already.

578
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:09.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like decided, but the arbitraged trading

579
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:11.840
<v Speaker 2>you can write event contract Like, there's a lot you

580
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:12.880
<v Speaker 2>can do now.

581
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:21.199
<v Speaker 1>That you couldn't previously do. But from a legal perspective,

582
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:25.880
<v Speaker 1>that makes it makes it exciting and makes it really interesting,

583
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:32.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, just getting your mind around all these new

584
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:35.360
<v Speaker 1>products that are coming on and they're all still viewed

585
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:40.000
<v Speaker 1>through the same law, but applying that law to them,

586
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:45.480
<v Speaker 1>knowing having that at a regulator or having worked with regulators,

587
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, how the regulator is likely to look at this,

588
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, and then making judgment call. I mean that

589
00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:55.480
<v Speaker 1>that's what a lot of this is. But it's a Yeah,

590
00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:56.920
<v Speaker 1>it's an interesting place to be.

591
00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:01.679
<v Speaker 2>And with tokenized assets, it seems the direction we're heading

592
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:05.639
<v Speaker 2>in is truly global markets, real time running on blockchain,

593
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.760
<v Speaker 2>instant settlements and things like that. Do you see these

594
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:11.599
<v Speaker 2>assets being brought to people around the world who couldn't

595
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:14.280
<v Speaker 2>access them before, Like they couldn't buy a SpaceX stock

596
00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:15.480
<v Speaker 2>or a fraction of.

597
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:16.119
<v Speaker 3>It or whatever it may be.

598
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:20.400
<v Speaker 2>But maybe in countries in Africa, South America, other parts

599
00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:24.199
<v Speaker 2>of the world through tokenization, they can access these assets now.

600
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Definitely, and there's massive interest abroad. We have these conversations

601
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:33.440
<v Speaker 1>with regulated entities outside the US all the time, and

602
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:36.039
<v Speaker 1>one of the things the most interested in is how

603
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:38.559
<v Speaker 1>do we get access to solo techs? How do we

604
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:41.760
<v Speaker 1>get access to US stocks? Yeah, because to your point,

605
00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:47.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's not like a citizen of wherever, Argentina

606
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:50.360
<v Speaker 1>or something you can call out a broker dealer in

607
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:52.159
<v Speaker 1>New York and say, hey, I want to open a

608
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.079
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's just maybe it should work that way,

609
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:59.960
<v Speaker 1>but it doesn't doesn't. So you know, this allows for

610
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:03.679
<v Speaker 1>or exposure for them to get exposure to the US

611
00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:06.559
<v Speaker 1>stock market through a regulated product.

612
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Are there any risks that you can think of or

613
00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:14.920
<v Speaker 2>that you know could potentially be a risk for tokenization

614
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:17.400
<v Speaker 2>of assets, not when it's fully completed, but during the

615
00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:19.760
<v Speaker 2>process that concerned you.

616
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:27.360
<v Speaker 1>During the process of bization or saying where the industry.

617
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:29.119
<v Speaker 2>Is, where the industry is going, you know, because to

618
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:32.239
<v Speaker 2>your point, no rules officially yet from the sec might

619
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:35.400
<v Speaker 2>be around a corner. But you know, there's always bad

620
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:39.000
<v Speaker 2>actors in markets, right, in every every industry, every market.

621
00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:40.679
<v Speaker 3>Bad humans will be humans.

622
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:43.079
<v Speaker 1>That's why we have the securities laws in the first place,

623
00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:47.400
<v Speaker 1>right because people were being sold, you know, investment schemes

624
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.480
<v Speaker 1>around all sorts of things didn't exist, weren't, you know,

625
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:52.280
<v Speaker 1>so right, So.

626
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:55.639
<v Speaker 2>Is there anything that you think could be a risk

627
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:59.239
<v Speaker 2>in the process of tokenizing these assets.

628
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:07.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure that there are risks, But if you think

629
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:12.679
<v Speaker 1>about look at SpaceX, it's actually a decent example. You

630
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:15.239
<v Speaker 1>did have a scenario there where do the massive demand.

631
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:20.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, there were a cohort of traditional broker dealers

632
00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:26.199
<v Speaker 1>who users had put in orders for to buy IPO

633
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:29.360
<v Speaker 1>stock of SpaceX, and they couldn't fulfill those because of

634
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:32.280
<v Speaker 1>the massive demand. It was you know, two to one oversubscribed.

635
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:38.199
<v Speaker 1>That happened on the crypto side too. The crypto side,

636
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:42.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot of it was dependent on you know, a

637
00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:47.840
<v Speaker 1>broker dealer having access to those shares and they pre

638
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:55.639
<v Speaker 1>sold you know, participation in those shares on the expectation

639
00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:58.480
<v Speaker 1>that they'd be able to access the actual underlying shares

640
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:00.519
<v Speaker 1>and we'd be able to fulfill those orders. It was

641
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:03.960
<v Speaker 1>done a little bit differently on the traditional side. The

642
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:07.039
<v Speaker 1>way that usually happens is you put in a conditional order,

643
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:10.079
<v Speaker 1>like an indication of interest. It's like a conditional order

644
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:13.559
<v Speaker 1>that says, you know, if I can get twenty shares

645
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.000
<v Speaker 1>of this, I would like to buy that, and you

646
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:20.960
<v Speaker 1>know your usually your money stays in your account. If

647
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:23.599
<v Speaker 1>they can fulfill the order, your money moves and that

648
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:30.199
<v Speaker 1>transaction is executed. The reporting is that some platforms on

649
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:34.400
<v Speaker 1>the token is stock side had actually pre sold and said,

650
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:39.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, get participation in SpaceX stock, and they actually

651
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:45.440
<v Speaker 1>collected investor money, so you know, when they didn't get

652
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:49.239
<v Speaker 1>the shares to underlie those stocks and issue them, the

653
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:54.039
<v Speaker 1>investors were disappointed. Understandably, they had to refund the investors

654
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:56.199
<v Speaker 1>money and stuff, So it's not like people lost money.

655
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:00.320
<v Speaker 1>To me, it's sort of an informational lesson to be

656
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:04.079
<v Speaker 1>learned of. Sure, investors have to know exactly what they're buying.

657
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:08.239
<v Speaker 1>They have to do reading or let you know, Claude

658
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:10.840
<v Speaker 1>do reading for them on exactly what they're what they're

659
00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:14.320
<v Speaker 1>buying and what the risks are. And you know, am

660
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.920
<v Speaker 1>I one to get these shares? Hopefully it'll tell you no,

661
00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:19.760
<v Speaker 1>you know if that if that's there, and the disclosures,

662
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:25.719
<v Speaker 1>but you know, all that money was refunded, so it

663
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.280
<v Speaker 1>wasn't like it was a scandal. It was just a

664
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:33.320
<v Speaker 1>little bit exposed that some of the token ized stock offerings,

665
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:36.599
<v Speaker 1>the differences among them and what you're actually buying. Are

666
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:39.480
<v Speaker 1>you buying a synthetic asset that just has price exposure.

667
00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:44.079
<v Speaker 1>Are you buying something that purports to actually have a

668
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:46.840
<v Speaker 1>share of stock behind it? You know, with the Solo

669
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Tech stock tokens, you don't get the token until you

670
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:55.880
<v Speaker 1>select to buy that stock through our broker dealer and

671
00:42:56.119 --> 00:42:58.320
<v Speaker 1>the stock is purchased, and at the same time, a

672
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:00.760
<v Speaker 1>token is meanted that you can hold, so you're never

673
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:04.480
<v Speaker 1>going to have one without the other. And so I

674
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:09.960
<v Speaker 1>think you know, with an IPO like this and transacting

675
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:11.960
<v Speaker 1>in advance of it, you know, things might have gotten

676
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:15.719
<v Speaker 1>a little ahead of themselves. But you know, I don't

677
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:19.199
<v Speaker 1>see I see that there's more a lesson than some

678
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:21.079
<v Speaker 1>sort of tragic occurrence.

679
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:23.440
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, poor execution maybe that type of thing.

680
00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, and maybe it's tragic you didn't get into SPACEXIT

681
00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:28.480
<v Speaker 1>at that price. I mean I think it's below that price.

682
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:32.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, on that note, do you see in the future,

683
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:34.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, given that all these assets are coming on chain,

684
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:38.199
<v Speaker 2>that companies are going to IPO on chain versus the

685
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:38.840
<v Speaker 2>traditional way.

686
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:45.639
<v Speaker 1>I think you're likely to have actually sort of initially

687
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:52.280
<v Speaker 1>what we talked about. You're likely to have companies in

688
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.000
<v Speaker 1>the same way that you can have an IPO and

689
00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:55.920
<v Speaker 1>you can have it i PO in the US and

690
00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:02.519
<v Speaker 1>also simultaneously have like an ad R depository receipt issued abroad,

691
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:09.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, or have a representation of an issued abroad.

692
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:12.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, you might see things like that where these

693
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:14.519
<v Speaker 1>two different markets. I said ad R eight R is

694
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:17.639
<v Speaker 1>actually for foreign companies to be excess the US market.

695
00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:20.360
<v Speaker 1>But you can have you could go public on you know,

696
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.000
<v Speaker 1>the London Stock Exchange, New York Stock Exchange, if you

697
00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:25.480
<v Speaker 1>were sufficiently big.

698
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:25.400
<v Speaker 2>But.

699
00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:30.199
<v Speaker 1>I think you will have, you know, pools of equity

700
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:38.000
<v Speaker 1>reserved for on chain, pools for traditional and we may

701
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:41.519
<v Speaker 1>get to a world. You know, we talked about if

702
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:46.679
<v Speaker 1>the institutions and the major markets all moved towards on

703
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:50.760
<v Speaker 1>chain infrastructure. Yeah, I mean, then exactly what you said

704
00:44:51.159 --> 00:44:54.199
<v Speaker 1>on chain i pos will be how you do an

705
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:57.880
<v Speaker 1>i PO initially, you would think, and the movement is

706
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:01.840
<v Speaker 1>likely to be a little bit more of on the

707
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:05.000
<v Speaker 1>on chain component is kind of a sidecar to the

708
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.039
<v Speaker 1>other I P O. Maybe that becomes the main IPO

709
00:45:08.119 --> 00:45:11.119
<v Speaker 1>and the traditional is you know, so we'll see how

710
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:12.000
<v Speaker 1>it plays out.

711
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:15.519
<v Speaker 2>Do you think individuals, let's say an Elon Musk decides

712
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:19.480
<v Speaker 2>to tokenize himself, that that might be a thing her

713
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:23.280
<v Speaker 2>ownership or it's like you can bet on on him

714
00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 2>in a certain way.

715
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:25.760
<v Speaker 3>Maybe it's more on the meme coin side of things

716
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:27.000
<v Speaker 3>versus it.

717
00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Sounds like a prediction market.

718
00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:33.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thing, but but in a whirl of tokens can

719
00:45:33.400 --> 00:45:36.519
<v Speaker 2>be issued and and you know, things can be monetized.

720
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Why not, Yeah, I mean, look you could. I mean

721
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:43.280
<v Speaker 1>I joked about prediction mark like, sure, I'm sure there

722
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:46.440
<v Speaker 1>is there's probably is a contract out there is Elon

723
00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Musk gonna do X next week next week like that.

724
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:51.000
<v Speaker 1>You know that's probably probably you could probably buy into

725
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:55.679
<v Speaker 1>that if you need to want to. But yeah, I

726
00:45:55.760 --> 00:46:00.000
<v Speaker 1>mean I think celebrities, certainly David Bowie, the Bowie Bomb,

727
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:02.079
<v Speaker 1>and this is I don't even know if I was

728
00:46:02.119 --> 00:46:04.719
<v Speaker 1>alive when when those were issued, but you know I've

729
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:08.079
<v Speaker 1>read about it. You know, you could have a lot

730
00:46:08.119 --> 00:46:13.880
<v Speaker 1>more celebrities, artists you know that say hey, you know,

731
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to wait till after I'm dead and

732
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:20.480
<v Speaker 1>my catalog gets you know, securitized. I want to do

733
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.199
<v Speaker 1>it on still alive and raise money and so people

734
00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:27.079
<v Speaker 1>you would quote unquote get a piece of them, yeah,

735
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:30.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, in terms of what they're producing and the

736
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:33.519
<v Speaker 1>revenue from that and that kind of thing. And I

737
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:36.440
<v Speaker 1>think the Bowie, I mean, he had to sell if

738
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:38.400
<v Speaker 1>memory serves, that had to be done through an SPV,

739
00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:41.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, special purpose vehicle, and he had to sort

740
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:43.719
<v Speaker 1>of the rights had to transfer to that, and then

741
00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:45.320
<v Speaker 1>they were issued out of that. So you'd probably see

742
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:48.480
<v Speaker 1>something analogous happening now. I mean a lot of tokenized

743
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:54.480
<v Speaker 1>assets are done via an SPV like structure because yeah,

744
00:46:54.519 --> 00:46:57.079
<v Speaker 1>I mean there's not for for several reason, for legal

745
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:05.519
<v Speaker 1>removal from the actual a set for ease of actually

746
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:09.000
<v Speaker 1>just saying this is what is being fractionalized because we

747
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:11.079
<v Speaker 1>set up this SPV and you're just selling interest in

748
00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:14.360
<v Speaker 1>the SPV rather than something getting really messy. And if

749
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:17.079
<v Speaker 1>it's real estate, you're saying, we're gonna sell direct interests

750
00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:21.440
<v Speaker 1>in this building. Okay, the disclosure document for that's going

751
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:25.039
<v Speaker 1>to be prohibitively large cause you gonna have zoning and

752
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:28.199
<v Speaker 1>like everything. I mean, if you're buying the actual build,

753
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:33.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, so rather than an entity or structure that

754
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:35.960
<v Speaker 1>you know holds rights to that kind of thing. So yeah,

755
00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:40.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean a lot of really interesting permutations of this

756
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:41.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure will be coming.

757
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:44.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's fascinating. And that's a great example with David Bowie's,

758
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:48.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, with his catalog and things like that. A

759
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.039
<v Speaker 2>lot of artists could do that and maybe they could

760
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:53.079
<v Speaker 2>get more money because they'll be able to bring in

761
00:47:53.559 --> 00:47:55.639
<v Speaker 2>liquidity capital from across the globe.

762
00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:57.639
<v Speaker 3>Versus just in.

763
00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:01.920
<v Speaker 2>The United States and specifically it to a record label

764
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:02.639
<v Speaker 2>or things like that.

765
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I think so, you know, it's I mean,

766
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:10.800
<v Speaker 1>in that industry, really is. Specifically, there's already a lot

767
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:13.519
<v Speaker 1>of interesting stuff going like Taylor Swift and having like

768
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:17.519
<v Speaker 1>Taylor's version, you know, because everyone went with her, right,

769
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I didn't know what that was. My wife

770
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:22.599
<v Speaker 1>eventually explained to her that she's also a lawyer, so

771
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:26.400
<v Speaker 1>she was like, oh, that's interesting. That's cool. But you know,

772
00:48:26.599 --> 00:48:31.559
<v Speaker 1>you've got fan bases following the artist. You've got the

773
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:35.000
<v Speaker 1>artist saying you may have bought all of this stuff

774
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:36.920
<v Speaker 1>in this version, but there's a new version and you

775
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:40.239
<v Speaker 1>should buy, you know, and they want to support it. Yeah,

776
00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:42.679
<v Speaker 1>you can definitely see things like that being on chain

777
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:48.000
<v Speaker 1>and UH and really having a lot more UH distribution

778
00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:49.280
<v Speaker 1>and liquidity on chain.

779
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Now we're in the cusp of getting the Claritiact pass.

780
00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:55.599
<v Speaker 2>It's we actually get some good news today that you know,

781
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:57.000
<v Speaker 2>the bill is going to make its way to the

782
00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:00.519
<v Speaker 2>Central Floor in July. Obviously we got to wait for

783
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:02.119
<v Speaker 2>it to pass. We don't know what's going to happen.

784
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:05.039
<v Speaker 2>But when that passes, do you think that unlocks more

785
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:09.159
<v Speaker 2>innovation with tokenization, allowing more institutions to you know, dive in,

786
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:11.000
<v Speaker 2>even though they may be dipping your toe right now.

787
00:49:11.480 --> 00:49:17.320
<v Speaker 1>I think it will help to a degree. I do

788
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:20.800
<v Speaker 1>think Clarity is an apt name for it, because I

789
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:25.320
<v Speaker 1>think it's a lot about clarifying existing law, not about

790
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:31.239
<v Speaker 1>making new law necessarily. It's a lot about putting down

791
00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:36.559
<v Speaker 1>in writing what lawyers who've been in this space for

792
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:40.840
<v Speaker 1>a while have been able to discern around where is

793
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:44.800
<v Speaker 1>the SEC and CFTC boundary lines, where do they fall?

794
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:47.760
<v Speaker 1>But it has always been, you know, a big gray

795
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:51.239
<v Speaker 1>so you have had to make judgment calls and that

796
00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:54.000
<v Speaker 1>sort of thing. And I do think Clarity will make

797
00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:57.440
<v Speaker 1>hopefully live up to his name and make that a

798
00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:00.840
<v Speaker 1>little clearer, and we'll also make it clearer get lawyers

799
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:05.880
<v Speaker 1>for everyday people to be able to understand, you know,

800
00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:09.599
<v Speaker 1>what is what asset wise, what's the security, what's the commodity?

801
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:14.079
<v Speaker 1>Who's a regulator? Who have to worry about, Uh, don't

802
00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:17.480
<v Speaker 1>worry about who I need to engage with, you know

803
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:21.719
<v Speaker 1>on this that kind of thing. I think the missed

804
00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:27.719
<v Speaker 1>opportunity for Clarity is that you don't have a lot

805
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:33.239
<v Speaker 1>that's prescriptive of saying how you can move from assets

806
00:50:33.239 --> 00:50:37.639
<v Speaker 1>that are currently in the physical world to get on

807
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:40.679
<v Speaker 1>chain representations of them and to allow that to happen

808
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:43.760
<v Speaker 1>in a more efficient way. I think that'll be coming.

809
00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:49.000
<v Speaker 1>I think there are institutions that perhaps not perhaps I

810
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:53.920
<v Speaker 1>mean it's you know, reported publicly that there's institutions that

811
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:58.159
<v Speaker 1>have been hesitant to get as involved in the crypto

812
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:02.719
<v Speaker 1>space as they might have because, yeah, maybe they hold

813
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:08.559
<v Speaker 1>a a broken dealer license, but what they want to

814
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:12.000
<v Speaker 1>trade looks like it might actually require a CFTC registration.

815
00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:14.760
<v Speaker 1>They don't hold that, or they don't want to go

816
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:17.440
<v Speaker 1>through the process of getting it, or they don't have

817
00:51:18.440 --> 00:51:21.519
<v Speaker 1>a contractual relationship with any will allow them to access

818
00:51:21.679 --> 00:51:27.440
<v Speaker 1>that market or something. So it's not black and white

819
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:30.639
<v Speaker 1>for them, so they're not not going to do anything

820
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:35.440
<v Speaker 1>right now. Hopefully it will clarify. Thanks for institutions like that,

821
00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:39.719
<v Speaker 1>But I think the big unlock will come once you

822
00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:44.639
<v Speaker 1>have law out there that says you take an asset,

823
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:48.760
<v Speaker 1>you take an asset, and whether it's an innovation exemptionure,

824
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:54.159
<v Speaker 1>whether there's prescriptive legislation and regulations that then come that

825
00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:57.800
<v Speaker 1>say this is how you can tokenize an asset and

826
00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:00.519
<v Speaker 1>have it on chain rather than needing to seek an

827
00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:04.920
<v Speaker 1>exemption from FENRA for how settlement's going to happen. You know,

828
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:09.360
<v Speaker 1>that's now law, and you don't need to go one

829
00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:12.679
<v Speaker 1>by one and seek exemptions. You know, this is the law,

830
00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:16.440
<v Speaker 1>and there's going to be sec regulations around it. So

831
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:19.159
<v Speaker 1>I do think that there will be an unlock coming

832
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:25.440
<v Speaker 1>once we get to the more prescriptive side of how

833
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:27.920
<v Speaker 1>do you tokenize things? How do you make this easier

834
00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:35.400
<v Speaker 1>rather than having people having issuers need to go and

835
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:40.400
<v Speaker 1>seek exemptions and that kind of thing, which if all

836
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:45.000
<v Speaker 1>the exemptions are granted, great, but that's still an additional step,

837
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:49.800
<v Speaker 1>and that's friction that doesn't allow a market to grow

838
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:51.760
<v Speaker 1>to the potential that it otherwise would.

839
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:56.639
<v Speaker 2>So Ashley, ten years from now, twenty thirty six, what

840
00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:59.960
<v Speaker 2>do the markets look like with tokenization in place?

841
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:07.360
<v Speaker 1>We'll absolutely have I don't know, twenty four hour a

842
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:13.440
<v Speaker 1>day trading, but probably twenty three hour a day, five

843
00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:16.400
<v Speaker 1>seven days a week trading. You know, we're not going

844
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:20.400
<v Speaker 1>to be constrained by market hours anymore. I don't think

845
00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:27.079
<v Speaker 1>things are becoming too global for conventions like that. I

846
00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:32.880
<v Speaker 1>think to continue to hold. But you know, so I

847
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:35.559
<v Speaker 1>think that that innovation, I mean that has already been

848
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:38.360
<v Speaker 1>coming to a degree, but it's been sort of forced

849
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:43.400
<v Speaker 1>also by what's available on chain now and just how

850
00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:49.480
<v Speaker 1>quickly settlement can happen in that context. So I think

851
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:52.679
<v Speaker 1>that there will be efficiencies like that. I think that

852
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:59.440
<v Speaker 1>you're going to have markets that will have a plethora

853
00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:07.480
<v Speaker 1>of assets beyond what's currently available in UH to a

854
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:12.079
<v Speaker 1>mass market audience. I think you're going to have You're

855
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:16.159
<v Speaker 1>gonna be able to go to t X or other

856
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:21.039
<v Speaker 1>markets and be able to transact in almost anything, whether

857
00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:24.760
<v Speaker 1>it's a physical you know, an r w A, whether

858
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:30.039
<v Speaker 1>it's an event contract, whether it's traditional I mean, inequity

859
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:36.440
<v Speaker 1>is r w A because unless you've got an equity

860
00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:39.880
<v Speaker 1>already on chain as it's sort of you know where

861
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:47.559
<v Speaker 1>it natively was issued, but you know, equities, derivatives, all

862
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:50.360
<v Speaker 1>of that, you know through our regulated partners are are

863
00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:53.039
<v Speaker 1>going to be available and UH, and I think it's

864
00:54:53.079 --> 00:54:55.400
<v Speaker 1>going to produce a lot of liquidity that, like I

865
00:54:55.440 --> 00:54:58.239
<v Speaker 1>said at the beginning and we discussed, is currently siloed

866
00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:01.800
<v Speaker 1>into this is where you go for this specific market.

867
00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:04.320
<v Speaker 1>This is where you go for this specific market, both

868
00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:06.960
<v Speaker 1>geographically and in terms of product.

869
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Going to be very fascinating to see how that plays out.

870
00:55:11.480 --> 00:55:13.119
<v Speaker 2>And I'm assuming AI is going to be a big

871
00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:16.159
<v Speaker 2>part of it. In helping manage and markets when we're

872
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:17.039
<v Speaker 2>sleeping and things like that.

873
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:20.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I was actually just messaging some of

874
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:27.039
<v Speaker 1>our engineers earlier about this of you know, AI is

875
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:33.039
<v Speaker 1>a really interesting technology to come about in parallel with

876
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:39.280
<v Speaker 1>crypto markets and tokenized asset markets, because one can't really

877
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:41.480
<v Speaker 1>exist without the other if you think about it. I mean,

878
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.480
<v Speaker 1>I guess it could. But if you've got AI and

879
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:52.880
<v Speaker 1>you have agents that are ready to transact in or

880
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:58.639
<v Speaker 1>transact or transfer money or whatever it is, it's difficult

881
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:01.960
<v Speaker 1>to think that they're going to do that over like

882
00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:06.760
<v Speaker 1>ach rails, or that you know, they're going to only

883
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:09.639
<v Speaker 1>operate during market hour, you know, like whatever it is. Like,

884
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:14.639
<v Speaker 1>it's difficult to see AI fitting into a lot of

885
00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:19.159
<v Speaker 1>the traditional ways of doing things. But what it seems

886
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:24.280
<v Speaker 1>tailor made for is to transact on chain because it

887
00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:28.280
<v Speaker 1>can talk to the un chain systems. They can interact.

888
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:31.599
<v Speaker 1>They can you know, if it's solo techs, stock tokens

889
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:35.480
<v Speaker 1>or other TX network tokens. The AI can see the

890
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:38.559
<v Speaker 1>programming there and read the restrictions there, and I mean

891
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:41.719
<v Speaker 1>it almost obviates the need for like an oracle. If

892
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:45.400
<v Speaker 1>it's an AI agent and the aigent knows when I

893
00:56:45.559 --> 00:56:48.880
<v Speaker 1>read this programming, I am not allowed to do this

894
00:56:49.039 --> 00:56:51.280
<v Speaker 1>with that. I should do this with that, you know,

895
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:54.079
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is, whether it's a restriction or a mandate,

896
00:56:56.079 --> 00:57:01.480
<v Speaker 1>I think it'll be a really big efficiency transformation. Oh absolutely.

897
00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:03.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm excited for the day when I can have an

898
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:06.559
<v Speaker 2>AI agent trading my assets twenty four to seven and

899
00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:09.639
<v Speaker 2>make me more money, hopefully. Hopefully.

900
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would probably still, I don't know. I'm sure

901
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:19.719
<v Speaker 1>that people who check the market to an obsessive degree

902
00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:21.960
<v Speaker 1>would still check the market. Okay, and they're holding to

903
00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:24.920
<v Speaker 1>an obsessive degree, but for sure, my mom is that way.

904
00:57:25.639 --> 00:57:28.360
<v Speaker 1>It's fine, it is what it is.

905
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:31.360
<v Speaker 3>You know, absolutely, actually great stuff. I have some wrap

906
00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:35.679
<v Speaker 3>up questions here for you. First, early bird or night out.

907
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:42.679
<v Speaker 1>Get up around six, get a better around midnight. So

908
00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:45.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure what camp that fits into. I'm not

909
00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:49.119
<v Speaker 1>like a four am person, sure, but you know, I

910
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:51.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of Yeah, kids have to go to school, so

911
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:53.440
<v Speaker 1>I got to get up at a certain period of

912
00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:56.960
<v Speaker 1>a certain time, or the stuff that has to happen

913
00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:58.199
<v Speaker 1>before they leave doesn't happen.

914
00:57:58.480 --> 00:58:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, I'm in the same boat, and I do

915
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:02.679
<v Speaker 2>have sometimes have to work a bit late, so I'm

916
00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:07.440
<v Speaker 2>moked HT midnight sometimes windows seater or aisle aile, text

917
00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:11.400
<v Speaker 2>email or call text. And if you could have dinner

918
00:58:11.480 --> 00:58:13.320
<v Speaker 2>with any person living or debt, who would it be.

919
00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:22.840
<v Speaker 1>I think it would be Jeff Bezos.

920
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:24.880
<v Speaker 3>Yea Besos, that's a good one.

921
00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:28.719
<v Speaker 2>I always think about that photo of Jeff where he's

922
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:30.840
<v Speaker 2>in the old Amazon office.

923
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:31.760
<v Speaker 3>Would have spray painted.

924
00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I just think the like I remember when Amazon

925
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:41.679
<v Speaker 1>first came into being, and I, you know, I was,

926
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:47.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, in high school maybe, and I was

927
00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:51.079
<v Speaker 1>like books. I was like, all right, you know, I

928
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:52.360
<v Speaker 1>can go to Barnes and know what you know. But

929
00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:55.320
<v Speaker 1>my dad was like, yeah, but it's much bigger than books.

930
00:58:55.360 --> 00:58:57.800
<v Speaker 1>He's building a distribution networked. Like, I just think it's

931
00:58:57.800 --> 00:59:02.079
<v Speaker 1>really interesting and I think he's uh. Having some time

932
00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:06.880
<v Speaker 1>with him would would be a really interesting uh dinner

933
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:09.199
<v Speaker 1>or lunch whatever what the question was. But sorry, I

934
00:59:10.119 --> 00:59:10.920
<v Speaker 1>know you have other stuff.

935
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Favorite city in the world, Mexico City, and best advice

936
00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:16.960
<v Speaker 2>you've ever gotten.

937
00:59:18.119 --> 00:59:25.480
<v Speaker 1>I think the best advice is know what you want

938
00:59:25.519 --> 00:59:29.400
<v Speaker 1>and get it, Go get it. And I think that's

939
00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:33.840
<v Speaker 1>true in in any regard. If there's something that you

940
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:39.119
<v Speaker 1>think is right and do you think has potential and

941
00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:41.000
<v Speaker 1>do you think that to the exclusion of other things,

942
00:59:41.719 --> 00:59:46.360
<v Speaker 1>pursue it. If there is a person you think you

943
00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:52.000
<v Speaker 1>should be with, and don't break any laws, but make

944
00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:57.239
<v Speaker 1>it happen, you know. If there's something like a house

945
00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:58.920
<v Speaker 1>that you think you should get, you know, find it with.

946
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:06.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, life is too short to have regrets, and

947
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:11.800
<v Speaker 1>it's too short not to work on trying to make

948
01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:12.920
<v Speaker 1>everything a reality.

949
01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Great advice, Ashley, Absolute pleasure. Love what you and the

950
01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:19.519
<v Speaker 2>folks at TX are doing. Thank you so much for

951
01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:20.159
<v Speaker 2>taking the time.

952
01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:22.519
<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much. This is a lot of fun and

953
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:27.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm really excited to have another conversation once TX is

954
01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:29.960
<v Speaker 1>up and live and we can show you everything. The

955
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:33.360
<v Speaker 1>app's supposed to be out this week, so I have

956
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:35.679
<v Speaker 1>it on my phone already. It's cool and I can't

957
01:00:35.679 --> 01:00:36.719
<v Speaker 1>wait for everybody else to see it.

958
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:40.519
<v Speaker 2>So we're recording this on Wednesday, June twenty fourth, So

959
01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:43.119
<v Speaker 2>the app you mentioned will be going live this week,

960
01:00:43.239 --> 01:00:45.119
<v Speaker 2>so I'll put links in a description for folks to

961
01:00:45.199 --> 01:00:47.159
<v Speaker 2>check it out. Thank you so much for tuning in.

962
01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Please hit the like button subscribe if you haven't as yet.

963
01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:53.320
<v Speaker 2>If you're listening on a podcast platform such as Spotify

964
01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:56.039
<v Speaker 2>or Apple, Please follow and leave a five star rating.

965
01:00:56.400 --> 01:00:57.159
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much.