Speaker 1: Live in studio.
Speaker 2: Our guy who's getting ready to take a trip that
Speaker 2: is making me very very jealous.
Speaker 1: He's heading down south.
Speaker 2: He spent some time with their friends at Black Desert
Speaker 2: Richard Smitty Smith's Smitty Happy Monday, Sir, how are.
Speaker 3: You, Spence? Were doing great?
Speaker 4: I'm excited to uh, to be going down to Ivans
Speaker 4: and Saint George and see the Black Desert and first
Speaker 4: time ever I'll be in an LPGA tournament, so to
Speaker 4: see the best women golfers in the world tie it
Speaker 4: up in person and see how precise they are. You know,
Speaker 4: when I watch them on TV, they just they're always
Speaker 4: in control, They got everything lined up their hands and
Speaker 4: show they you know, they're just so good at that,
Speaker 4: you know, and so excited to see that in person
Speaker 4: and see what.
Speaker 3: It looks like.
Speaker 2: Good Field too, right, I was thinking that they have
Speaker 2: like seven of the top ten golfers on the Lpgah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think the I think the tournament if
Speaker 4: I understand it correctly, and and I don't know this
Speaker 4: for sure, but my understanding is that they've they've arranged
Speaker 4: with whoever they could get from the from the first
Speaker 4: major of the year last week in Texas, Uh to
Speaker 4: come up to this tournament and are flying them all
Speaker 4: up in private jets and said, hey, you come to
Speaker 4: the tournament.
Speaker 3: We got you covered. Don't worry about it.
Speaker 4: You know, we'll get you from A to B and
Speaker 4: make sure you're all situated at the at the resort,
Speaker 4: and and and and for professional golfers at any level,
Speaker 4: you know, anything you can do to to entice them,
Speaker 4: you know, to be part of your thing is you know,
Speaker 4: is a big deal. And so that's, uh, that's exciting
Speaker 4: for the for the organizers.
Speaker 2: We had Patrick mannon on last week and I kindly
Speaker 2: offered uh to allow the plane.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: I kindly offered to allow me to be picked up
Speaker 2: by a private jet to go play at Black Desert,
Speaker 2: and he plightately.
Speaker 4: Declined, Well really, yeah. I was surprised. Well, he probably
Speaker 4: declined because he thought, well, Spence is just pulling my leg.
Speaker 4: He's got his own private plane. He's just trying to say.
Speaker 2: I can't time let alone of private plane at this point, smittie.
Speaker 1: But I'm jealous, man. You'll have a good time, all right.
Speaker 2: I want to start with a non NBA story, should
Speaker 2: Or Sanders slides to the fifth round of the NFL drive.
Speaker 2: And you're a guy that for four years, throughout the
Speaker 2: course of your time with the Jazz, you were in
Speaker 2: a lot of war rooms. You worked with Franken Scott
Speaker 2: and then Kevin O'Connor and Dennis Lindsay, what is the
Speaker 2: process like because clearly, and look, who know we were
Speaker 2: talking about this during the break the NFL draft media
Speaker 2: cover just full of grifters.
Speaker 1: It's full of people that claim to.
Speaker 2: Know what they're talking about, and the same grifters. So
Speaker 2: on Wednesday, I'm listening to all these draft experts and
Speaker 2: it's Shador's three to the Giants. It's twenty one of
Speaker 2: the Steelers. But he's not fallen out of the first round,
Speaker 2: and if he does, the Browns are right there in
Speaker 2: the second. Nobody said fifth round. And the same grifters
Speaker 2: today are saying, well, my intel over the weekend said, well,
Speaker 2: this is why he slid that would I don't know
Speaker 2: what to believe exactly, but throughout the course of analyzing
Speaker 2: these young prospects, the interview process, what's your take when
Speaker 2: you see this precipitous slide for a player that a
Speaker 2: lot of people thought would go very early on, Well, that's.
Speaker 4: The thing that that that's really fascinating to me about
Speaker 4: the whole Shooter Sanders thing.
Speaker 3: And I'm just a casual NFL fan.
Speaker 4: I follow it, you know, like anybody else sitting up
Speaker 4: in row forty five, you know, on the end zone,
Speaker 4: you know, at games.
Speaker 3: But they you know, all the stuff leading up to it, right.
Speaker 4: Was was him going in the top ten, you know,
Speaker 4: maybe he gets to the mid first round or something,
Speaker 4: but he's one of the top quarterback prospects. And then
Speaker 4: to fall that far from what everybody was saying, especially
Speaker 4: your guy mel Kiper, you know, was one of the
Speaker 4: loudest voices in the room about it. And that was
Speaker 4: a very interesting exchange they had towards the end of
Speaker 4: the get with the panel that he was with trying
Speaker 4: to defend himself and and and all those kinds of things.
Speaker 4: And that's what happens when you stick your neck out
Speaker 4: like that, you know, and make predictions that that you know,
Speaker 4: you really don't quite know what's going to happen.
Speaker 3: But but for a.
Speaker 4: Guy like Sanders to slide all the way to the
Speaker 4: fifth fifth round from what he did in college and
Speaker 4: also what everybody was saying ahead of the draft was
Speaker 4: going to happen.
Speaker 3: Regarding him.
Speaker 4: It's fascinating to me because that says to me, Spence,
Speaker 4: having having worked in these kind of environments over the years,
Speaker 4: there's other things behind the scenes that no one's talking about,
Speaker 4: whether they know them or they're not aware of what
Speaker 4: they are and they can't talk about them simply because
Speaker 4: of lack of information or knowledge. But other things, whether
Speaker 4: it's you know this thing about you know that that
Speaker 4: he called half the teams ahead of time and said,
Speaker 4: don't don't select me. He did the the Eli Manning
Speaker 4: thing that everybody forgets about.
Speaker 3: You know, way back.
Speaker 4: When when Eli Manning and his dad said, hey, we
Speaker 4: know we're not going to go to San Diego, so
Speaker 4: don't you know, or or you got to trade them
Speaker 4: or something, you know, uh now how it all fell out,
Speaker 4: or the John Elway thing and and all that kind
Speaker 4: of stuff way back in the day that that's unprecedented
Speaker 4: that happening. But if you do that, then the front
Speaker 4: offices you're talking to, the organizations you're talking to, you know,
Speaker 4: they're sitting in their rooms and they're going, Hey, the
Speaker 4: guy called us and he doesn't want to play here.
Speaker 3: Do we like him?
Speaker 4: Enough that you know, we don't care about that because
Speaker 4: this is the process and we're responsible for our own
Speaker 4: organization and to make it better or is it is
Speaker 4: it a borderline thing where it's just not worth it
Speaker 4: and we just go to Plan B whatever, And that's
Speaker 4: why he kept sliding, sliding, sliding. And then you have
Speaker 4: the issue with you know, position and football. Obviously, there's
Speaker 4: so many different positions. We get to our pick in
Speaker 4: the third round, Yeah, we like shud Or Sanders, but
Speaker 4: we really need a middle linebacker, and the kid from
Speaker 4: Ohio State still there, we got to take him.
Speaker 3: And so if you went.
Speaker 4: Over everybody's boards and draftless, you'd probably see teams that
Speaker 4: would say, oh, yeah, we like Sanders, but we had
Speaker 4: four other positions that we had to you know, take
Speaker 4: care of first before we got to that point. And
Speaker 4: so there's a lot of those those kind of a
Speaker 4: moving parts that are involved. But something as precipitous is
Speaker 4: supposed to be in the first half of the first
Speaker 4: round to the fifth round is really saying something about
Speaker 4: people don't like his act off the court, they don't
Speaker 4: off the field, they don't like you know, all the
Speaker 4: social media stuff, they don't like the circus that surrounds him.
Speaker 4: He's not really that good to have to deal with
Speaker 4: that stuff. I don't know, It's just there's something in
Speaker 4: that regard that I think is fascinating because at some
Speaker 4: point it'll start leaking out where teams will say, yeah, well,
Speaker 4: you know, I talked to the other four of my
Speaker 4: colleagues around the league, and we all said, why dealing
Speaker 4: with that thing, you know, because that's not worth it,
Speaker 4: you know, you know, whatever it is.
Speaker 3: And so that to me is the fascinating part.
Speaker 4: Now, the flip of it to me was when they
Speaker 4: showed him being selected by the Browns, and you know,
Speaker 4: you would have thought he just was the first first
Speaker 4: pick of the draft the way he reacted right, the
Speaker 4: dancing and doing the stuff, and they didn't show any
Speaker 4: any kind of you know, sulking or head down or
Speaker 4: any of that kind of stuff. So you know, if
Speaker 4: if that's the real reaction or if that's just for
Speaker 4: for you know, made for TV, as we say, or
Speaker 4: or what have you. But they were smart and you
Speaker 4: know and saying, hey, when this happens, dude, whenever it is,
Speaker 4: you know, you can't be looking like that guy over
Speaker 4: in the corner who just broke up with his girlfriend.
Speaker 3: You gotta you gotta make it look good. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: got it. I got it.
Speaker 4: And it seems like he's probably savvy enough to understand
Speaker 4: that and handle it that way.
Speaker 2: You reference the reports that Shador and his reps, whether
Speaker 2: it was Dion or what have you, contacting certain teams
Speaker 2: and saying, don't draft in, We're not gonna come. He
Speaker 2: doesn't want to play for you. Over the years that
Speaker 2: you spent with the Utah Jazz. You know, we were
Speaker 2: talking off air a little bit. There are a lot
Speaker 2: of public reports that people know about the Derek Harper's
Speaker 2: of the World Cyclis of the World. Your former boss,
Speaker 2: Dennis Lindsay went on a podcast last year, and I
Speaker 2: actually talked to Dennis about this because I heard it,
Speaker 2: and he said, during the height of the Mitchell Gobert
Speaker 2: Conley group, he had an opportunity to make a trade
Speaker 2: for what he characterized as a star player, and the
Speaker 2: agent called Dennis and said, don't do it.
Speaker 1: He's not coming. So you know, whether it was through
Speaker 1: the draft or whether.
Speaker 2: It was via free agency or trades over the years,
Speaker 2: whether it was Scotty and Frank or Kevin O'Connor or
Speaker 2: Dennis lindsay, when you guys received intel that my guy's
Speaker 2: not coming, doesn't want to play, if you don't draft him,
Speaker 2: don't trade for him, don't sign him, how'd you handle it?
Speaker 4: Well, it's always a difficult thing because, first of all,
Speaker 4: your responsibility, first and foremost is to the organization, to
Speaker 4: your ownership group, and obviously to your fans to do
Speaker 4: the best you can to put the best product out
Speaker 4: on the floor. And so you have to balance you know,
Speaker 4: what you think is going to make sense for your group,
Speaker 4: and you know what the attitude of approach, the the
Speaker 4: overall mindset of the individual is who you're going to
Speaker 4: try and add to the group. You know, nobody wants
Speaker 4: to deal with a male content. Nobody wants to deal
Speaker 4: with somebody who you have to talk them into, you know,
Speaker 4: playing nice with the other kids in the room, like
Speaker 4: it's a you know, nobody wants to have to do that.
Speaker 4: Sometimes you have to do that. And I always call
Speaker 4: that the uh the iverson effect, meaning like how good
Speaker 4: is the player and how much does he bring to
Speaker 4: your group to offset what the headaches and and all
Speaker 4: the other issues are, you know, off the basketball court,
Speaker 4: and so how do those balance each other? And and
Speaker 4: and you call it the Iverson effect because Alan Iverson
Speaker 4: in his career was such a good player and so
Speaker 4: impactful and so dynamic on the floor that the people
Speaker 4: I know for a fact who had to work with
Speaker 4: him all during his career said, yeah, it was a
Speaker 4: lot of heavy lifting and there was a lot of
Speaker 4: pain on our part, but we just had to figure
Speaker 4: it out from day to day because he's so good.
Speaker 4: So how much of that is in the equation? And
Speaker 4: so you know, when when agents call you and they say, hey, look,
Speaker 4: my guy doesn't really want to come to the Salt Lake.
Speaker 4: It doesn't want to do this, you know, it's always
Speaker 4: a long discussion because because you're trying to sell yourself,
Speaker 4: but at the same time you have to realize, you know, what,
Speaker 4: how is this going to impact our overall group. We're
Speaker 4: trying to add in that regard to the group, We're
Speaker 4: trying to improve our situation as it currently stands. If
Speaker 4: we bring in a guy who doesn't want to be here,
Speaker 4: and a guy who says ahead of time, hey, I
Speaker 4: don't want to come, but if I have to come,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to be happy about it. Then you
Speaker 4: have to deal with that. So how does that going
Speaker 4: to impact the rest of the group. So there's a
Speaker 4: fine balancing line there, Spence, because because you have to
Speaker 4: do your business to what you feel is going to
Speaker 4: help your group. But at the same time, what the
Speaker 4: business you do, do you think then it's going to
Speaker 4: be some kind of detriment to your group because of
Speaker 4: the attitude that's that's coming with it. So it's always
Speaker 4: a fine a fine balancing act that that's that's never
Speaker 4: there's no blueprint for every single one in that regard
Speaker 4: is its own entity and comes with its own set
Speaker 4: of challenges.
Speaker 2: And it's tough because you know, look, Ronnie Seychlely wasn't
Speaker 2: a chem olaju on, but he would have. I don't
Speaker 2: know what that team would have looked like, but that's
Speaker 2: exactly what you needed. And the player Dennis was talking
Speaker 2: about to make the trade to kind of supplement the
Speaker 2: growth that Rudy and Donovan he told me off the record,
Speaker 2: and it would have been a great addition.
Speaker 1: That's what you needed.
Speaker 2: How do you how do you balance that where it's like, look,
Speaker 2: I know you don't want to come here, but then
Speaker 2: on the other side, you're like, but if you do,
Speaker 2: we got a shot to win the thing. I mean,
Speaker 2: do you have a conversation with a player or is
Speaker 2: it is it black and white? If they're gonna be
Speaker 2: a malecontend and they're not an Iverson type talent, you say, okay,
Speaker 2: go kick go kick rocks.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well it's again, every single one is handled differently, and
Speaker 4: you have to take in all all facets of what
Speaker 4: uh the situation is, all the different areas that you're
Speaker 4: that you're involved in there in terms of skill ability, talent, attitude, uh,
Speaker 4: work ethic, all those kinds of things, uh, and then
Speaker 4: figure in you.
Speaker 3: You have to know what your group is about.
Speaker 4: So then you have to figure out, well, if we
Speaker 4: if we can do something like this, maybe the guys
Speaker 4: in our group that are here can win that person over. Okay,
Speaker 4: but it's really a sticky situation when when it comes up,
Speaker 4: and it's not always uh, it's never the most comfortable
Speaker 4: because you always feel like we're trying to do what's
Speaker 4: best for our group. You know, this guy we think
Speaker 4: can help us, this guy says he doesn't want to
Speaker 4: be here. Whatever it is. Now we have to balance that, like,
Speaker 4: well do we still want him. Do we still try
Speaker 4: and make that work because that's our job and the
Speaker 4: responsibility we have to the organization to try and do
Speaker 4: these things if and when they become available. Or do
Speaker 4: we just say, oh, it's too much work, forget it,
Speaker 4: We're going to plan B and we move on, which
Speaker 4: is it may not be in the best interest of
Speaker 4: the organization. So then you feel like, well, I'm not
Speaker 4: doing the job I'm supposed to do for our group.
Speaker 4: So it's always it's always a balance. It's always juggling
Speaker 4: and trying to figure out what really makes sense. Is
Speaker 4: the addition going to be better than the subtraction of
Speaker 4: not doing it at the end of the day.
Speaker 3: That's always the balance and the juggling act you have.
Speaker 2: I can remember the year Paul Pierce was coming out
Speaker 2: of Kansas and I was doing some work with the
Speaker 2: Knicks during their draft prepping process, and the Knicks had
Speaker 2: Paul Pierce as their number one ranked player that year.
Speaker 2: Famously fell to tend to Boston and had a Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame career and won a championship with the Celtics.
Speaker 2: The most famous jazz draft story of a player who
Speaker 2: slid that benefited you guys, I think, is Carl right
Speaker 2: Whenever I look at that eighty five draft, that was
Speaker 2: a stack draft. Ewing went and one, of course, but
Speaker 2: players like Xavier McDaniel, Chris Molin, Dell with Shrimp, Charles Oakley,
Speaker 2: even a player like Waymon Tisdale, you know, John Conkak.
Speaker 2: That was a good draft. But Carl slides, you guys
Speaker 2: at thirteen and I've heard Frank tell the story a
Speaker 2: million times, which is a great story. And then, of
Speaker 2: course I was a kid, but I remember him getting
Speaker 2: up to the podium and saying, we're drafted a mailman.
Speaker 2: So I want you to talk us through what that
Speaker 2: was like to watch Carl slide when you guys had
Speaker 2: him analyze as one of the top I don't know
Speaker 2: two or three players. Any other stories as well come
Speaker 2: to mind about players that slid to you guys that
Speaker 2: you benefited.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, well Carl, you know it is obviously the
Speaker 4: biggest one there was. He was projected during that draft
Speaker 4: to go somewhere between four and seven, and everybody believed
Speaker 4: that he would be going no later than seven to
Speaker 4: Dallas because he was from that area and it was
Speaker 4: going to be a regional type pick. And and the
Speaker 4: people in that area that part of the country knew
Speaker 4: him well from Louisiana Tech. And and then when when
Speaker 4: Dallas took I think it was Bill Garnett.
Speaker 3: Is that who was delashremp Was it Delas Trump?
Speaker 2: Dallas traded with Cleveland according to the draft have up.
Speaker 2: So Mullen went seven a Golden State, Dellas Shrimp went eight,
Speaker 2: Oakley went nine.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah that was and then and so he started sliding.
Speaker 4: And part of the slide, as we understood at that time,
Speaker 4: and I think it is still the case, is that,
Speaker 4: you know, looking back on it was just that there
Speaker 4: were teams that are a little bit scared off because
Speaker 4: his his college coach wasn't his best advocate in that regard.
Speaker 4: He had some some things that he wasn't quite sure about,
Speaker 4: you know, uh, how Carl worked and and and what
Speaker 4: he would bring to a group, and so he didn't
Speaker 4: he didn't do the best selling job for his player
Speaker 4: and that guard. So that scared off some teams, and
Speaker 4: he started sliding. And then I know Kenny Green from
Speaker 4: Wake Forest was taking number twelve by by Washington just
Speaker 4: before the Jazz and and I remember Scott saying Scott
Speaker 4: Layton saying to his dad at that moment in time
Speaker 4: on the draft stage, Hey, we we got we gotta
Speaker 4: take the kid from Louisiana Tech. And and Frank said, well,
Speaker 4: what's the matter with him? I thought he's supposed to
Speaker 4: go like top five, six and now he's at thirteen.
Speaker 4: Something's wrong? And Scott said, not that I know of.
Speaker 4: I haven't heard. I haven't heard anything. I'm not we
Speaker 4: don't have any intel in that regard. And Frank was like,
Speaker 4: are you sure that he doesn't have a bum knee
Speaker 4: or he didn't have some kind of legal problem we're
Speaker 4: not aware of or something, because something's going on. And
Speaker 4: Scott said, no, I don't. I don't know if there's anything.
Speaker 4: We don't have anything. He said, but he is good enough,
Speaker 4: he's talented enough that we just have to take him
Speaker 4: and then we have to figure it out. And Frank said, okay,
Speaker 4: I I hope you're right, and that was that was
Speaker 4: the deal, and then we go and then Frank makes
Speaker 4: the call, and then and then I do remember the
Speaker 4: subsequent press conference talking about it, and someone asked him
Speaker 4: about you, you know, think he's gonna come in and
Speaker 4: help you with your scoring, and.
Speaker 3: Frank said, well, we don't have a promise scoring.
Speaker 4: We have Adrian Dantley, and we have John Drew, and
Speaker 4: we have Daryl Griffith, and we have Ricky Green who's
Speaker 4: kind of a scoring point guard sort of, he said,
Speaker 4: And then you know, we have them a developing Mark Eaton,
Speaker 4: and we have a young thorough Bailey. He goes, but
Speaker 4: we're a third third to the last in the NBA
Speaker 4: and rebounding, so we hope that he can this guy
Speaker 4: from Louisiana Tech, Carl Malone, can come in and help
Speaker 4: us with our rebounding and some of our defense and stuff.
Speaker 4: And then if he scores eight or ten points a game,
Speaker 4: that'll be a bonus for us, and you know, thirty
Speaker 4: five thousand points.
Speaker 3: Later or whatever.
Speaker 4: You know, So that's you know, and Spence, you have
Speaker 4: a million stories like that where where you can take
Speaker 4: a guy or work with a guy and think, well,
Speaker 4: we can put him in this hole and we think
Speaker 4: he can do such and such here, and then the
Speaker 4: guy ends up doing something else. It's far beyond that
Speaker 4: that you're going, well, I didn't know he could do that,
Speaker 4: you know, And then you look like the smart guy
Speaker 4: in the room. As Frank would always readily say when
Speaker 4: people said, oh, John Stockton, how'd you know he's gonna
Speaker 4: be such a one of the best Poincauds of all time?
Speaker 4: And Frank would always say, well, first of all, if
Speaker 4: we knew he was gonna be that, we would have
Speaker 4: tried to trade up and get him in the top
Speaker 4: three or whatever, you know, which we didn't. And you
Speaker 4: know that that's just you know, there's a million of
Speaker 4: those draft day stories. You know, probably the biggest one
Speaker 4: about guys not wanting to come or whatever. It happened
Speaker 4: even before that with the Jazz in eighty three with
Speaker 4: Dominicu Wilkins and the Jazz had the third pick and
Speaker 4: they took him and he was he would have been
Speaker 4: a main cog in the Jazz group at that time,
Speaker 4: and he simply said, I'm not I'm not moving to
Speaker 4: the Lake City. I don't want to come. So you
Speaker 4: got to figure something out. And that's when the Jazz said, well,
Speaker 4: then we will figure out some other thing, and they
Speaker 4: ended up making the trade that brought them John Drew
Speaker 4: and and and and Freeman and and some other stuff.
Speaker 4: But it was but that was a big deal because
Speaker 4: you're you're talking about a talented guy who went on
Speaker 4: to obviously an All Star and in the Hall of
Speaker 4: Fame career, and Dominique Wilkins and and uh so those
Speaker 4: are the things you have to deal with if if
Speaker 4: somebody's gonna stand their ground. Now, see, Dominic Wilkins had
Speaker 4: a little bit of, uh, you know, leverage in that
Speaker 4: regard because he even though it's not as prevalent as
Speaker 4: it is today, he was standing on the idea that hey,
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna come if if if you're not gonna move,
Speaker 4: make a move for me, I'll just go play in Italy,
Speaker 4: or I'll go play in Spain. I'll make a living
Speaker 4: somehow doing that. Well that's that's that, that was the
Speaker 4: information we had. But but at the same time, but
Speaker 4: then you took somebody like a Shador Sanders. We bring
Speaker 4: it back to there should or Sindis doesn't have anywhere
Speaker 4: else to go. He's not going to play football in
Speaker 4: China or play football in Europe or whatever. So he
Speaker 4: wants to be a quarterback at the professional level. He's
Speaker 4: got one place to do it, and that's the NFL.
Speaker 4: So that's what's intriguing to me. If some of the
Speaker 4: stories are accurate that they were calling teams saying, don't draft,
Speaker 4: because I don't know why you would want to cut
Speaker 4: out anybody who may help you to get to where
Speaker 4: you want to be professionally.
Speaker 2: That eighty four draft, De la Jouan won, of course,
Speaker 2: Jordan famously. Three after Portland goes Booie Barkley at five,
Speaker 2: Charles Barkley at five, Alvin Robertson, Otis Thorpe, Kevin Willis,
Speaker 2: and John John Stocked and Michael Cage too, a great rebounder.
Speaker 1: That was a great draft.
Speaker 2: YEP, before we catch break, one more draft question, and
Speaker 2: I don't want to catch off guard here, but is
Speaker 2: there a memory of a player that you guys passed
Speaker 2: on that slid passed you went past some other teams
Speaker 2: that was drafted later on, and you look back and
Speaker 2: you say, oh, I think Tony Parker, Ral Lopez. I mean,
Speaker 2: was there was there a player that comes to mind
Speaker 2: that you guys wanted passed on went on to play
Speaker 2: really well?
Speaker 4: I mean, you know you big up a good one
Speaker 4: with with Raoul Lopez and and Tony Parker. Those are
Speaker 4: the two guys we were zoing and on at the time.
Speaker 4: And and uh, you know, Raoul had an unfortunate knee
Speaker 4: injury right after we drafted him, uh playing in the
Speaker 4: world what's now known as the World Couple World Basketball
Speaker 4: Championships and in Indianapolis, and he had never been hurt
Speaker 4: up until then. In fact, he had been a real
Speaker 4: durable young player and was really good. And the question
Speaker 4: at the time was we didn't know if Tony Parker
Speaker 4: was really a true point guard or if he was
Speaker 4: more of a combo guard that that maybe wouldn't be
Speaker 4: what you what you wanted at that time. And of
Speaker 4: course we're we're coming off at the end of of
Speaker 4: one of the greatest point guards of all time with
Speaker 4: John Stockton, so we're looking for a guy who we
Speaker 4: think fits that mold of of a past first, past
Speaker 4: second guy, and Raoul Lopez was was all of that.
Speaker 4: And we had a lot of calls about Raoul right
Speaker 4: after the draft, about teams going, hey, you're gonna keep
Speaker 4: the Lopez kid because we're interested if if you're gonna
Speaker 4: stash him or do something else or whatever, and you know,
Speaker 4: so that was one that that still hurts today because
Speaker 4: you know, I think I think Raoul was all set
Speaker 4: up to be, you know, a really top level point
Speaker 4: guard at the NBA level and would have helped the
Speaker 4: Jazz a lot in that transition period.
Speaker 3: And and but.
Speaker 4: Then again, if we have Raoul Lopez and he's healthy
Speaker 4: and he's doing what he did early in his career
Speaker 4: in in in Spain and in Europe, then we might
Speaker 4: not have had Darren Williams because we might have said, oh,
Speaker 4: we got Raoul Lopez.
Speaker 3: We don't We don't need to pick it on Derek,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 4: So all the all those things are domino type effects
Speaker 4: spender that are sometimes fascinating to look back and I go, oh,
Speaker 4: what if if this happened?
Speaker 3: Then what about that? You know, the old sliding doors theory.
Speaker 2: Sure, it's always so easy because every NBA front office
Speaker 2: has a lot of misses, a lot of misses. It's
Speaker 2: always so easy to say, oh, I think it was
Speaker 2: Alec Burks instead of Kawhi or Clay or something like that.
Speaker 1: Like it's easy to do that.
Speaker 2: You know, you swing and miss, and then if you're
Speaker 2: gonna be critical of that, you have to say, well,
Speaker 2: Donovan late, lottery, go bear late.
Speaker 3: First.
Speaker 2: The crazy thing, smitty before you catch a break is
Speaker 2: the majority of the best players that you guys drafted,
Speaker 2: they weren't your highest picks, right. It was the karl
Speaker 2: in the late lottery, and John in the later first
Speaker 2: and Donovan late lottery, and go Beart and Carlinko in
Speaker 2: the second round in mill stll Right, like a lot
Speaker 2: of the best players we've had here have been great
Speaker 2: value picks later on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's all to do with your scouting and
Speaker 4: the way you evaluate personnel. Andre Carlanco at twenty five,
Speaker 4: but he was also the third.
Speaker 3: We had three first round.
Speaker 4: Picks that years, and we were trying to get we
Speaker 4: were trying to move Scott Laden was trying to move
Speaker 4: you know, at least one, if not two, of those picks,
Speaker 4: and we couldn't move them because other teams knew, you
Speaker 4: know that, well they're not gonna take three first round guys,
Speaker 4: which we ended up doing just because you know, well
Speaker 4: they were offering us pennies on the dollar in trade scenarios.
Speaker 3: They said, well, we are I gonna do that. We'll
Speaker 3: just say so.
Speaker 4: So it was actually Dave Friedman, you know, in our
Speaker 4: in our group, who you know, said, you know, propose
Speaker 4: the idea of what if we take the Carolinko kid
Speaker 4: and we just leave him in uh in Russia because
Speaker 4: he's under contract for another couple of years. And that really,
Speaker 4: in my opinion, you know, started or was part of
Speaker 4: that wave of drafting guys who you knew were under
Speaker 4: contract overseas and just leaving them there for a year
Speaker 4: or two or three while their contracts ran out and
Speaker 4: let them develop over there where you didn't have to
Speaker 4: pay them and start that that clock on a contract.
Speaker 4: But guys like Paul Millsap who was drafted forty six, Uh,
Speaker 4: well Williams was drafted forty six, uh, Jeff hornisec forty seven,
Speaker 4: you know, Mono Jenobili fifty two. All these guys, you know,
Speaker 4: guys that you you can find good players anywhere in
Speaker 4: the draft. Uh, but you just have to you have
Speaker 4: to do the homework. You have to you have to
Speaker 4: dig into the soil and really get your hands dirty,
Speaker 4: and then and then have the conviction of what you're seeing, uh,
Speaker 4: that that you think makes sense for your group. And
Speaker 4: so sometimes sometimes you get you get guys like that
Speaker 4: who can play, and they're they're undervalued and uh and
Speaker 4: you just have to say, well, we should have taken
Speaker 4: him one of the with our first round pick instead
Speaker 4: of our second round pick.
Speaker 2: The ninety nine draft wasn't great. Elton brand was the
Speaker 2: number one overall pick. Steve Francis at two had a
Speaker 2: good career, Baron Davis at three, Lamar owed him at four.
Speaker 2: You know, Gordy talks about how uniquely talented Lamar was
Speaker 2: coming out of college while he's herbiak Rip Hamilton, Sean
Speaker 2: merri and Andre Miller, Trajan Langdon Cory mcghetty, Frederick Weiss,
Speaker 2: Ye New York Knick fans were not our test. Ak
Speaker 2: at twenty four was probably the best value pick of
Speaker 2: the entire draft, to be honest.
Speaker 4: With Yeah, and he and even at that time, I
Speaker 4: think most people would have most NBA people would have said, well,
Speaker 4: he's one of the more talented guys in the draft.
Speaker 4: But again, the teams that are drafting, usually especially Spence,
Speaker 4: when you're drafting early, that usually means it's because you
Speaker 4: haven't had a good season, and if you haven't had
Speaker 4: a good season, you're looking for some kind of immediate help.
Speaker 4: And Andre Andre was smart because it was actually Andre
Speaker 4: and his agent both both thought, Hey, even though he
Speaker 4: was nineteen at the time, he said, no, I want
Speaker 4: to and this is this is this is very unique
Speaker 4: and interesting.
Speaker 3: He had said to his agent.
Speaker 4: His agent are, well, you might not get drafted until
Speaker 4: later in the first round if you stay in the draft.
Speaker 4: But if you if you wait a year or two
Speaker 4: and you develop and play more in Russia, then we
Speaker 4: might get you high and the draft. And Andre said
Speaker 4: to him, well, if I go now and I get
Speaker 4: drafted by a team later in the first round, that
Speaker 4: means more than likely I'm being drafted to a better team.
Speaker 4: And so I would rather have the opportunity to play
Speaker 4: with a better team when I go to the NBA,
Speaker 4: and I'm happy to play out my contract, which is
Speaker 4: another two years in Russia, which is what he did.
Speaker 4: So the Jazz drafted him, left him in Moscow for
Speaker 4: two more years playing for Chesca, and then when he
Speaker 4: was twenty one, he came over and he was ready
Speaker 4: to go, you know, compete at the NBA level. But
Speaker 4: a lot of guys, a lot of teams aren't going
Speaker 4: to take Andre, you know, at eight or ten or
Speaker 4: twelve in that scenario, because it's like.
Speaker 3: Well he's not coming for two years, right, Well, we need.
Speaker 4: Help now, because if we don't get help now, I'm
Speaker 4: out of a job next year if we lose again, Right,
Speaker 4: I mean that's all yeah, that's all the way the
Speaker 4: thinking goes. So so that was kind of aque unique
Speaker 4: situation with Carolinka the Jazz.
Speaker 2: All Right, it's madey some rough news and you just
Speaker 2: feel so bad because so much hope. When the Milwaukee
Speaker 2: Bucks traded for Damian Lillard to pare him next to
Speaker 2: Giannis and you know, I was watching it live and
Speaker 2: when it was a non contact injury as we were
Speaker 2: discussing off air, and when I saw the look on
Speaker 2: Dame's face, I said, he knows that he just just
Speaker 2: did something. And I hate to be the sports soccer
Speaker 2: radio guy that pretends he's a doctor, right, so I
Speaker 2: always wait until the actual diagnosis. MRI this morning tour
Speaker 2: and left achilles tendon and Dame turns thirty five this offseason.
Speaker 1: I hate to say it might be it, but it
Speaker 1: might be it. So what do you make of the news?
Speaker 4: Well, that's such a a tough injury for him, And
Speaker 4: because we all know how hard Damian Lillard works to
Speaker 4: get himself in the best shape possible and to be
Speaker 4: the ultimate competitor.
Speaker 3: He's always been that.
Speaker 4: That's how he's gotten to this stage of his career,
Speaker 4: Spencer being an All NBA player, All Star, part of
Speaker 4: the seventy fifth anniversary team. It's all out of his
Speaker 4: hard work and determination. And then when you watch that
Speaker 4: sequence and you see how how silly it was the
Speaker 4: movie made to what happened to him, you just feel
Speaker 4: for him. The issue going forward, not not just for
Speaker 4: him in his career, but also for the Milwaukee Bucks
Speaker 4: organization is if they get end up, say they get
Speaker 4: knocked out in this this first round of the playoffs,
Speaker 4: you know they still have Damian Lillard under contract for
Speaker 4: two more years at like in the mid fifties six six,
Speaker 4: and then you got Giannis as well, who's making a
Speaker 4: similar type money for the next three years. And so
Speaker 4: you're you're really strapped as an organization without having you know,
Speaker 4: one of your best players on the court and having to.
Speaker 3: Pay that kind of money.
Speaker 4: But it's not just the money you're paying to him,
Speaker 4: it's the fact that it keeps you from adding other
Speaker 4: guys to replace him. And so so that really is
Speaker 4: a is such a such a heartren during a thing
Speaker 4: for him individually and also for their organization, because that's
Speaker 4: that's a big, big pill to swallow right now in
Speaker 4: terms of what they're trying to get done.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you about where we stand with this
Speaker 2: Lakers Timberwolves series. You know, I don't know if JJ
Speaker 2: was trying to send a message to the front office,
Speaker 2: like I have no depth on this team, but I
Speaker 2: found it an ear to be a very irresponsible coaching
Speaker 2: move to play all five of those guys every minute
Speaker 2: in the second half, because what we saw, Smidi is
Speaker 2: the Timberwolves are now three to one and on the
Speaker 2: precipice of eliminating the Lakers. We'll see if they can
Speaker 2: get back into it. But in the fourth quarter, Lebron
Speaker 2: didn't score. In the fourth quarter, Luca's legs went Dorian
Speaker 2: Finney Smith had an open dunk and he shorten armed
Speaker 2: it because he was tired. Now, look, Jared Vanderbilt, who
Speaker 2: we had here, gave Vincent Jordan, Jordan Goodwin.
Speaker 1: It's not a deep team.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it is, but Minnesota's got depth,
Speaker 2: and I think that depth ultimately proved to be the
Speaker 2: nail on the coffin. An ant was great, But what
Speaker 2: do you make of the way JJ elected to go
Speaker 2: about that coaching decision to play all of those five
Speaker 2: guys every minute in the second half.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you know what that is for me, Spence,
Speaker 4: that that is a rookie coach who hasn't coached before
Speaker 4: at all, even as an assistant coach, comes in. You know, Okay,
Speaker 4: he played in the league. Okay, he's a smart guy.
Speaker 4: Okay he knows his team. All those things are are true.
Speaker 4: But when you get in the heat of the moment
Speaker 4: and you're in a you're down two to one, you're
Speaker 4: on the road, you're competing, you're in the game, you've
Speaker 4: got a lead, you you lose the lead, you come back,
Speaker 4: grab the lead, back and forth game one of those
Speaker 4: pivotal games in a series. You know that that is
Speaker 4: a that is a to me, is a rookie move
Speaker 4: where the guy where he was not comfortable subbing out
Speaker 4: the guys who were on the floor, who were keeping
Speaker 4: the team in the game for fear that the game
Speaker 4: is going to quickly slip away in some ten to
Speaker 4: two run by the other team. And so I just
Speaker 4: got to keep my guys out there, and I got
Speaker 4: to try and use my timeouts where I can to
Speaker 4: get them blows. But that's you know that to me
Speaker 4: is h is someone who's not used to making those decisions,
Speaker 4: and they're they're not really comfortable with the guys they've got, which,
Speaker 4: by the way, is probably true.
Speaker 3: He's probably right.
Speaker 4: And the fact that I don't know if I can
Speaker 4: count on the guys who I would put in to
Speaker 4: be able to hold this in on the road in
Speaker 4: such a pivotal game against a tough team that's got
Speaker 4: all their their weapons out there, And so that's that's
Speaker 4: a tough deal for him. And look, it came down
Speaker 4: to a player too, right, So none of nobody would
Speaker 4: be talking about this if Lebron makes a three, if
Speaker 4: Luca makes some game saving play at the end, and
Speaker 4: they go, how great was that that those guys pulled
Speaker 4: it out and now they're back in the series, going
Speaker 4: home and all those those kind of things. So so
Speaker 4: that's one of those things you make your roll with
Speaker 4: what your gut tells you, and his gut told them
Speaker 4: I think we can get to the finish line with
Speaker 4: our guys playing the way they are, and and it
Speaker 4: just didn't work out. And the other the other guy
Speaker 4: you know in the horse race, beat you by a
Speaker 4: nose at the at the finish line.
Speaker 2: Teams are up three to one win ninety percent of
Speaker 2: the time in pro basketball.
Speaker 1: So it's it's a tough ask.
Speaker 2: I suppose if there's a team that can do it,
Speaker 2: it's a team that has Lebron James and Luka Doncis
Speaker 2: for three to one Minnesota.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's you think it's Curtains. Do you
Speaker 1: think that cup?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: No, because look, Lebron's been here before. In fact, he's
Speaker 4: been here, you know, on on the the in a
Speaker 4: different circumstance where he was down three to one and
Speaker 4: had to go on the road for Game five and
Speaker 4: one game five, went home in won Game six, came
Speaker 4: back in one Game seven on the road, and the
Speaker 4: famous Kyrie Irving three pointer at the end of Game
Speaker 4: seven to win the championship for the Cleveland Cavaliy. So
Speaker 4: so anytime, Yeah, And I've always said this, Spence, I'm
Speaker 4: a big Lebron James fan. You can say whatever you
Speaker 4: want about how he you know, manipulates things and how
Speaker 4: he's got He's put himself in a position where if
Speaker 4: he's healthy and now if Doncic is healthy, and if
Speaker 4: they can play the way they played yesterday and they
Speaker 4: can get any kind of help, then I don't put
Speaker 4: it past them to be able to do it. Because
Speaker 4: they're playing game five at home right then they just
Speaker 4: have to go back and scrap out a game six somehow.
Speaker 3: And you never know how how that's gonna go. Right.
Speaker 3: Each each game is really its own series.
Speaker 4: If you look at games, you know, an individual game
Speaker 4: chopped into quarters or even chopped into segments from time
Speaker 4: out to time out, if you can get in a flow.
Speaker 4: And and you know, they get into game six in
Speaker 4: Minnesota and Anthony Edwards picks up early foul trouble, and
Speaker 4: and you know Rudy Gobert, you know, you know, tweaks
Speaker 4: his ankle or something. You know, blah blah blah. Anything
Speaker 4: can happen. So I don't anything any team that has
Speaker 4: James and Doncic healthy and playing the way they're capable
Speaker 4: of play, and I don't put anything back.
Speaker 3: I never bet against those.
Speaker 1: Guys before we get to tonight.
Speaker 2: And then I'll set you loose because I know you
Speaker 2: got to hit the road so you can go down
Speaker 2: to the golf tournament. And those of us that are humble,
Speaker 2: working men of the people will continue to go on.
Speaker 1: Day to day, but you do your thing. I don't
Speaker 1: know that I've ever asked you. There was always this narrative.
Speaker 2: So JJ Reddick and most teams that play against a
Speaker 2: Rudy go Bart led team like to go small. And
Speaker 2: you know, they're trying to isolate Luca on Rudy every
Speaker 2: time they can, and they're trying to make Rudy guard
Speaker 2: on the perimeter.
Speaker 1: And we saw that happen here with Quinn.
Speaker 2: And you know that Clippers series where Terrence Man has
Speaker 2: a career night, Maxi Kleiba hits a bunch of threes
Speaker 2: for Dallas. And there's always been this debate about what's
Speaker 2: fair to say of you know, when it comes to
Speaker 2: the criticisms of Rudy in a playoff series and the
Speaker 2: team goes small, does the coach have to sit him?
Speaker 1: Now Minnesota as now is Reed, who's been awesome.
Speaker 2: And I think at times Quinn just elected to be
Speaker 2: stubborn and play Rudy no matter what, no matter what
Speaker 2: the other team was gonna do, because Rudy was so
Speaker 2: important to what you guys did defensively. What's fair to
Speaker 2: say in that conversation the space of this team goes small.
Speaker 1: What do we do with Gobert.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I'm probably the wrong guy to ask that
Speaker 4: question to you because I'm in the I'm in the
Speaker 4: Rudy Gobert camp. As far as how he affects the game,
Speaker 4: what he brings to Yeah, you want to you want
Speaker 4: to isolate him out on a wing against a guy
Speaker 4: he's gonna get beat. You know, it doesn't matter who
Speaker 4: the ball handler is. That's not the way to play it.
Speaker 4: You know, taking him out late in games, you take
Speaker 4: away a lot of stuff that he does, you know
Speaker 4: that isn't in the so called public eye or the
Speaker 4: glare of the spotlight at that moment, like when you
Speaker 4: do a switch and he gets isolated out. Okay, that's
Speaker 4: that's not That's not the way to play it. That's
Speaker 4: not the way if you're smart to do it, if
Speaker 4: your team. But okay, teams have done it. But you know,
Speaker 4: he's too valuable player to me to take off the
Speaker 4: floor because he does a lot of other things, not
Speaker 4: just within the scheme of the thing of what's going
Speaker 4: on at the moment, but just in terms of his
Speaker 4: approach and attitude and what he wants to do for
Speaker 4: the group. He's not out there, you know, being Anthony
Speaker 4: Edwards trying to say, hey, everybody, look at me. Watch
Speaker 4: me put it between my legs ten times and spin
Speaker 4: and do this and make some you know, wild fall
Speaker 4: away you know, you know, jump shot or something, you know,
Speaker 4: so hero play. He's out there to try and help
Speaker 4: you as a group, to try and have success and
Speaker 4: win the game in whatever way he can. So you know,
Speaker 4: I'm I'm the wrong guy because you know those things.
Speaker 4: I think it amplified, especially a playoff time. There's a
Speaker 4: reason you won, you know, sixty plus games during the
Speaker 4: regular season with him in the starting lineup and him
Speaker 4: doing stuff and okay, you're getting a playoff series. There's
Speaker 4: other adjustments you can make that that don't put him
Speaker 4: in that kind of a space that that's that's not
Speaker 4: advantageous for him and therefore not advantageous for your group.
Speaker 4: And that's up to coaches in terms of how they
Speaker 4: game plan that and how they adjust to that.
Speaker 1: All right, final thing, let's get a thought on tonight.
Speaker 2: We'll leave Calves heat to the side because well, you
Speaker 2: know it's three to zero. But Golden State Houston Jimmy
Speaker 2: Butler went through shoot around this morning. He is officially
Speaker 2: a game time decision. Steph had a classic Steph game
Speaker 2: to get them Game three. It's still so fun to
Speaker 2: watch Steph when he's doing stuph things, even at this age.
Speaker 2: Houston a fun story, and I actually thought because of
Speaker 2: their athleticism, their strength, and their length on the perimeter,
Speaker 2: that Golden State was gonna have an issue.
Speaker 1: Now they still might. It's only two to one.
Speaker 2: But before I set you loose, so you can get
Speaker 2: down to st George, what are your thoughts on this series?
Speaker 1: What do you think happens tonight?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that Golden State will play play the
Speaker 4: same way. You know, I don't know if I don't
Speaker 4: know what Butler's situation is health wise. Obviously they're better
Speaker 4: off with him on the floor than without him. If
Speaker 4: he doesn't play, then that just means Curry has to
Speaker 4: have another type of game, which he's capable of doing
Speaker 4: at home, especially you know, to be able to to
Speaker 4: uh to keep them in the lead in that series.
Speaker 4: But you know, Houston's a young, scrappy, tough nosed, hard
Speaker 4: nosed defensive team, and so you're gonna see them getting
Speaker 4: added because.
Speaker 3: Obviously they don't they don't want it.
Speaker 4: They're gonna have the specter of falling behind three games
Speaker 4: to one. Uh, if they can't figure out a way
Speaker 4: to win the games, you're gonna see them scrapping and clawing.
Speaker 3: And and maybe that.
Speaker 4: Means that Steph Curry spends a lot of time on
Speaker 4: the free throw line, which would be advantageous for Golden
Speaker 4: State because because he's almost automatic there. But but I
Speaker 4: expect it to be a tough game, another tough game,
Speaker 4: and I expected to, you know, come down the last
Speaker 4: two minutes and and who makes a play, who misses
Speaker 4: a shot, who steps in and takes a charge? You
Speaker 4: know what, ever it is, let's just hope we don't
Speaker 4: have an ending like we had in the Detroit Knicks
Speaker 4: game yesterday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wasn't it.
Speaker 3: It was? It was a foul.
Speaker 4: But the NBA is wrong in not having an ability
Speaker 4: to be able to look at something like that at
Speaker 4: the end of the game.
Speaker 1: That rule.
Speaker 4: I'm sure they'll discuss it this some of There's got
Speaker 4: to be some way of dealing with the situation like that,
Speaker 4: especially when it when it's such the stakes the way
Speaker 4: they are right at that moment, and you're saying, well,
Speaker 4: the whistle wasn't blown. There wasn't a call made. So
Speaker 4: therefore we have nothing to review and we have nothing
Speaker 4: to discuss that that that just isn't right.
Speaker 3: Some something's got to change in that.
Speaker 1: But I'm just glad that the next one there you go.
Speaker 3: I know you and your boy Tony Jones, I know you're.
Speaker 4: You're all behind well Porter some kind of you know,
Speaker 4: where's Porter from Oakley from?
Speaker 3: What is he doing for the next because.
Speaker 1: Come on, would you like to order yourself young?
Speaker 4: He has People have fair points when they bring up
Speaker 4: my the randomness of my my sports allegience.
Speaker 2: It's not just random. You also made horrible choices. Like
Speaker 2: you were a free agent, you went Mets, Nicks and Cowboys.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of losing lately.
Speaker 3: See see he's a bandwagon guy.
Speaker 2: I could tell no, no, he's he's say he should
Speaker 2: be more of a bad like it's just a broken
Speaker 2: bandwagon Mets, Cowboys, Knicks.
Speaker 1: I mean that is decades of just suffering.
Speaker 2: Yeah all right, my friend, I know you got to
Speaker 2: get gone. Have have a good time down there, Send
Speaker 2: some pics, enjoy it's gonna be fun.
Speaker 3: It'd be great. Have a good time. Yeah, we'll miss you.
Speaker 1: Everybody will see you next, we