WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:00.920 Live in studio. 2 00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:05.080 Our guy who's getting ready to take a trip that 3 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:06.599 is making me very very jealous. 4 00:00:06.679 --> 00:00:07.799 He's heading down south. 5 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:09.839 He spent some time with their friends at Black Desert 6 00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:13.240 Richard Smitty Smith's Smitty Happy Monday, Sir, how are. 7 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:14.560 You, Spence? Were doing great? 8 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:18.320 I'm excited to uh, to be going down to Ivans 9 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:20.679 and Saint George and see the Black Desert and first 10 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:24.039 time ever I'll be in an LPGA tournament, so to 11 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:26.960 see the best women golfers in the world tie it 12 00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:31.120 up in person and see how precise they are. You know, 13 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:34.320 when I watch them on TV, they just they're always 14 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:37.039 in control, They got everything lined up their hands and 15 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:39.439 show they you know, they're just so good at that, 16 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:42.200 you know, and so excited to see that in person 17 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:43.240 and see what. 18 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:43.719 It looks like. 19 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:46.079 Good Field too, right, I was thinking that they have 20 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:49.119 like seven of the top ten golfers on the Lpgah. 21 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:51.520 Yeah, yeah, I think the I think the tournament if 22 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.560 I understand it correctly, and and I don't know this 23 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:57.359 for sure, but my understanding is that they've they've arranged 24 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:00.520 with whoever they could get from the from the first 25 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:03.640 major of the year last week in Texas, Uh to 26 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:05.840 come up to this tournament and are flying them all 27 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:08.400 up in private jets and said, hey, you come to 28 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:08.840 the tournament. 29 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:10.640 We got you covered. Don't worry about it. 30 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:12.599 You know, we'll get you from A to B and 31 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:14.920 make sure you're all situated at the at the resort, 32 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:18.280 and and and and for professional golfers at any level, 33 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:21.799 you know, anything you can do to to entice them, 34 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:24.079 you know, to be part of your thing is you know, 35 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:26.560 is a big deal. And so that's, uh, that's exciting 36 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:28.120 for the for the organizers. 37 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:30.879 We had Patrick mannon on last week and I kindly 38 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:33.719 offered uh to allow the plane. 39 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:34.040 No. 40 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:36.959 I kindly offered to allow me to be picked up 41 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:39.640 by a private jet to go play at Black Desert, 42 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:40.760 and he plightately. 43 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:43.640 Declined, Well really, yeah. I was surprised. Well, he probably 44 00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:46.480 declined because he thought, well, Spence is just pulling my leg. 45 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:49.159 He's got his own private plane. He's just trying to say. 46 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:52.000 I can't time let alone of private plane at this point, smittie. 47 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:53.920 But I'm jealous, man. You'll have a good time, all right. 48 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:57.760 I want to start with a non NBA story, should 49 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:00.000 Or Sanders slides to the fifth round of the NFL drive. 50 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.200 And you're a guy that for four years, throughout the 51 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:04.840 course of your time with the Jazz, you were in 52 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:07.560 a lot of war rooms. You worked with Franken Scott 53 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:11.560 and then Kevin O'Connor and Dennis Lindsay, what is the 54 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:14.919 process like because clearly, and look, who know we were 55 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.960 talking about this during the break the NFL draft media 56 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:19.319 cover just full of grifters. 57 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:22.560 It's full of people that claim to. 58 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:27.000 Know what they're talking about, and the same grifters. So 59 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:29.879 on Wednesday, I'm listening to all these draft experts and 60 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:33.319 it's Shador's three to the Giants. It's twenty one of 61 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:35.479 the Steelers. But he's not fallen out of the first round, 62 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:37.800 and if he does, the Browns are right there in 63 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:41.080 the second. Nobody said fifth round. And the same grifters 64 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:43.639 today are saying, well, my intel over the weekend said, well, 65 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.080 this is why he slid that would I don't know 66 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:50.080 what to believe exactly, but throughout the course of analyzing 67 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:55.520 these young prospects, the interview process, what's your take when 68 00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:57.759 you see this precipitous slide for a player that a 69 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:00.560 lot of people thought would go very early on, Well, that's. 70 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:02.680 The thing that that that's really fascinating to me about 71 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.000 the whole Shooter Sanders thing. 72 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:07.360 And I'm just a casual NFL fan. 73 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:10.159 I follow it, you know, like anybody else sitting up 74 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:13.439 in row forty five, you know, on the end zone, 75 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:15.599 you know, at games. 76 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:19.199 But they you know, all the stuff leading up to it, right. 77 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:22.560 Was was him going in the top ten, you know, 78 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:25.800 maybe he gets to the mid first round or something, 79 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:28.840 but he's one of the top quarterback prospects. And then 80 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:35.000 to fall that far from what everybody was saying, especially 81 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:38.080 your guy mel Kiper, you know, was one of the 82 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:40.479 loudest voices in the room about it. And that was 83 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:43.439 a very interesting exchange they had towards the end of 84 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:45.439 the get with the panel that he was with trying 85 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:48.639 to defend himself and and and all those kinds of things. 86 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:50.800 And that's what happens when you stick your neck out 87 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:54.000 like that, you know, and make predictions that that you know, 88 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:56.719 you really don't quite know what's going to happen. 89 00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:58.280 But but for a. 90 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:00.639 Guy like Sanders to slide all the way to the 91 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:04.360 fifth fifth round from what he did in college and 92 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:08.319 also what everybody was saying ahead of the draft was 93 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:09.159 going to happen. 94 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:09.960 Regarding him. 95 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.280 It's fascinating to me because that says to me, Spence, 96 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.160 having having worked in these kind of environments over the years, 97 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:21.560 there's other things behind the scenes that no one's talking about, 98 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.720 whether they know them or they're not aware of what 99 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.480 they are and they can't talk about them simply because 100 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:33.639 of lack of information or knowledge. But other things, whether 101 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:36.519 it's you know this thing about you know that that 102 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:38.879 he called half the teams ahead of time and said, 103 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:41.800 don't don't select me. He did the the Eli Manning 104 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:43.319 thing that everybody forgets about. 105 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:44.639 You know, way back. 106 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:47.800 When when Eli Manning and his dad said, hey, we 107 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:49.680 know we're not going to go to San Diego, so 108 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:51.959 don't you know, or or you got to trade them 109 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:54.879 or something, you know, uh now how it all fell out, 110 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:57.480 or the John Elway thing and and all that kind 111 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:01.319 of stuff way back in the day that that's unprecedented 112 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:05.120 that happening. But if you do that, then the front 113 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:08.600 offices you're talking to, the organizations you're talking to, you know, 114 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:11.040 they're sitting in their rooms and they're going, Hey, the 115 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:13.079 guy called us and he doesn't want to play here. 116 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:14.319 Do we like him? 117 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:17.120 Enough that you know, we don't care about that because 118 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:19.920 this is the process and we're responsible for our own 119 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:24.079 organization and to make it better or is it is 120 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:26.639 it a borderline thing where it's just not worth it 121 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:29.600 and we just go to Plan B whatever, And that's 122 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.759 why he kept sliding, sliding, sliding. And then you have 123 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:36.160 the issue with you know, position and football. Obviously, there's 124 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:38.639 so many different positions. We get to our pick in 125 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:41.040 the third round, Yeah, we like shud Or Sanders, but 126 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.920 we really need a middle linebacker, and the kid from 127 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.240 Ohio State still there, we got to take him. 128 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:48.720 And so if you went. 129 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:53.079 Over everybody's boards and draftless, you'd probably see teams that 130 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.480 would say, oh, yeah, we like Sanders, but we had 131 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:00.560 four other positions that we had to you know, take 132 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:04.439 care of first before we got to that point. And 133 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:06.439 so there's a lot of those those kind of a 134 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:10.160 moving parts that are involved. But something as precipitous is 135 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.040 supposed to be in the first half of the first 136 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:17.160 round to the fifth round is really saying something about 137 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:22.079 people don't like his act off the court, they don't 138 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:24.519 off the field, they don't like you know, all the 139 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.519 social media stuff, they don't like the circus that surrounds him. 140 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:31.680 He's not really that good to have to deal with 141 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:34.959 that stuff. I don't know, It's just there's something in 142 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:39.000 that regard that I think is fascinating because at some 143 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:43.000 point it'll start leaking out where teams will say, yeah, well, 144 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:44.639 you know, I talked to the other four of my 145 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:48.000 colleagues around the league, and we all said, why dealing 146 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:50.399 with that thing, you know, because that's not worth it, 147 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:51.600 you know, you know, whatever it is. 148 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:54.680 And so that to me is the fascinating part. 149 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:57.800 Now, the flip of it to me was when they 150 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:01.759 showed him being selected by the Browns, and you know, 151 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:04.279 you would have thought he just was the first first 152 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:06.839 pick of the draft the way he reacted right, the 153 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.199 dancing and doing the stuff, and they didn't show any 154 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:11.959 any kind of you know, sulking or head down or 155 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.759 any of that kind of stuff. So you know, if 156 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:17.439 if that's the real reaction or if that's just for 157 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:20.040 for you know, made for TV, as we say, or 158 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:22.600 or what have you. But they were smart and you 159 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:25.639 know and saying, hey, when this happens, dude, whenever it is, 160 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:28.399 you know, you can't be looking like that guy over 161 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:30.560 in the corner who just broke up with his girlfriend. 162 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:32.800 You gotta you gotta make it look good. Yeah, I 163 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:33.680 got it. I got it. 164 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:36.920 And it seems like he's probably savvy enough to understand 165 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:38.319 that and handle it that way. 166 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:42.120 You reference the reports that Shador and his reps, whether 167 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:45.319 it was Dion or what have you, contacting certain teams 168 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:47.959 and saying, don't draft in, We're not gonna come. He 169 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.160 doesn't want to play for you. Over the years that 170 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.120 you spent with the Utah Jazz. You know, we were 171 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:55.920 talking off air a little bit. There are a lot 172 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:59.199 of public reports that people know about the Derek Harper's 173 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.839 of the World Cyclis of the World. Your former boss, 174 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:05.079 Dennis Lindsay went on a podcast last year, and I 175 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:07.079 actually talked to Dennis about this because I heard it, 176 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:10.879 and he said, during the height of the Mitchell Gobert 177 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:13.959 Conley group, he had an opportunity to make a trade 178 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:17.519 for what he characterized as a star player, and the 179 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:19.199 agent called Dennis and said, don't do it. 180 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:24.560 He's not coming. So you know, whether it was through 181 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:25.680 the draft or whether. 182 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:27.560 It was via free agency or trades over the years, 183 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:29.680 whether it was Scotty and Frank or Kevin O'Connor or 184 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:33.759 Dennis lindsay, when you guys received intel that my guy's 185 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:35.840 not coming, doesn't want to play, if you don't draft him, 186 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:38.519 don't trade for him, don't sign him, how'd you handle it? 187 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:41.559 Well, it's always a difficult thing because, first of all, 188 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:46.120 your responsibility, first and foremost is to the organization, to 189 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:49.440 your ownership group, and obviously to your fans to do 190 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:51.759 the best you can to put the best product out 191 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:54.679 on the floor. And so you have to balance you know, 192 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:57.360 what you think is going to make sense for your group, 193 00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:02.919 and you know what the attitude of approach, the the 194 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:06.639 overall mindset of the individual is who you're going to 195 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:09.759 try and add to the group. You know, nobody wants 196 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.320 to deal with a male content. Nobody wants to deal 197 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:15.440 with somebody who you have to talk them into, you know, 198 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.200 playing nice with the other kids in the room, like 199 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:20.960 it's a you know, nobody wants to have to do that. 200 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:24.000 Sometimes you have to do that. And I always call 201 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.559 that the uh the iverson effect, meaning like how good 202 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.480 is the player and how much does he bring to 203 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.679 your group to offset what the headaches and and all 204 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.360 the other issues are, you know, off the basketball court, 205 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:43.279 and so how do those balance each other? And and 206 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:45.720 and you call it the Iverson effect because Alan Iverson 207 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.480 in his career was such a good player and so 208 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:52.600 impactful and so dynamic on the floor that the people 209 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:55.279 I know for a fact who had to work with 210 00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:58.600 him all during his career said, yeah, it was a 211 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.039 lot of heavy lifting and there was a lot of 212 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:04.320 pain on our part, but we just had to figure 213 00:10:04.360 --> 00:10:07.720 it out from day to day because he's so good. 214 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:11.919 So how much of that is in the equation? And 215 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:15.720 so you know, when when agents call you and they say, hey, look, 216 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:17.799 my guy doesn't really want to come to the Salt Lake. 217 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:20.519 It doesn't want to do this, you know, it's always 218 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:24.159 a long discussion because because you're trying to sell yourself, 219 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.480 but at the same time you have to realize, you know, what, 220 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.480 how is this going to impact our overall group. We're 221 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:34.759 trying to add in that regard to the group, We're 222 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:39.279 trying to improve our situation as it currently stands. If 223 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:41.360 we bring in a guy who doesn't want to be here, 224 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:44.639 and a guy who says ahead of time, hey, I 225 00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:46.840 don't want to come, but if I have to come, 226 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:49.480 I'm not going to be happy about it. Then you 227 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:51.360 have to deal with that. So how does that going 228 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:54.120 to impact the rest of the group. So there's a 229 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:57.919 fine balancing line there, Spence, because because you have to 230 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:01.080 do your business to what you feel is going to 231 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:04.360 help your group. But at the same time, what the 232 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:07.480 business you do, do you think then it's going to 233 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.879 be some kind of detriment to your group because of 234 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:13.960 the attitude that's that's coming with it. So it's always 235 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:17.039 a fine a fine balancing act that that's that's never 236 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:21.200 there's no blueprint for every single one in that regard 237 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:24.320 is its own entity and comes with its own set 238 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:25.519 of challenges. 239 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:28.360 And it's tough because you know, look, Ronnie Seychlely wasn't 240 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.240 a chem olaju on, but he would have. I don't 241 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:32.840 know what that team would have looked like, but that's 242 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:35.879 exactly what you needed. And the player Dennis was talking 243 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:37.919 about to make the trade to kind of supplement the 244 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:40.279 growth that Rudy and Donovan he told me off the record, 245 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:41.519 and it would have been a great addition. 246 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:42.519 That's what you needed. 247 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.120 How do you how do you balance that where it's like, look, 248 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:47.840 I know you don't want to come here, but then 249 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:49.360 on the other side, you're like, but if you do, 250 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.080 we got a shot to win the thing. I mean, 251 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:53.879 do you have a conversation with a player or is 252 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:55.639 it is it black and white? If they're gonna be 253 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:58.559 a malecontend and they're not an Iverson type talent, you say, okay, 254 00:11:58.559 --> 00:11:59.840 go kick go kick rocks. 255 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:00.320 Yeah. 256 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:04.759 Well it's again, every single one is handled differently, and 257 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:08.399 you have to take in all all facets of what 258 00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:12.720 uh the situation is, all the different areas that you're 259 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:18.360 that you're involved in there in terms of skill ability, talent, attitude, uh, 260 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:22.039 work ethic, all those kinds of things, uh, and then 261 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:23.240 figure in you. 262 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:24.759 You have to know what your group is about. 263 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:26.960 So then you have to figure out, well, if we 264 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:29.600 if we can do something like this, maybe the guys 265 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:33.960 in our group that are here can win that person over. Okay, 266 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.159 but it's really a sticky situation when when it comes up, 267 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:42.960 and it's not always uh, it's never the most comfortable 268 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:46.480 because you always feel like we're trying to do what's 269 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:50.399 best for our group. You know, this guy we think 270 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:52.879 can help us, this guy says he doesn't want to 271 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:57.440 be here. Whatever it is. Now we have to balance that, like, 272 00:12:57.559 --> 00:13:00.720 well do we still want him. Do we still try 273 00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:05.080 and make that work because that's our job and the 274 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:08.279 responsibility we have to the organization to try and do 275 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.879 these things if and when they become available. Or do 276 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:14.120 we just say, oh, it's too much work, forget it, 277 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.960 We're going to plan B and we move on, which 278 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:19.440 is it may not be in the best interest of 279 00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:21.679 the organization. So then you feel like, well, I'm not 280 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:24.440 doing the job I'm supposed to do for our group. 281 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:28.919 So it's always it's always a balance. It's always juggling 282 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:33.000 and trying to figure out what really makes sense. Is 283 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:37.360 the addition going to be better than the subtraction of 284 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:39.759 not doing it at the end of the day. 285 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:42.480 That's always the balance and the juggling act you have. 286 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:44.879 I can remember the year Paul Pierce was coming out 287 00:13:44.919 --> 00:13:48.639 of Kansas and I was doing some work with the 288 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:52.360 Knicks during their draft prepping process, and the Knicks had 289 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:55.519 Paul Pierce as their number one ranked player that year. 290 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.399 Famously fell to tend to Boston and had a Hall 291 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.720 of Fame career and won a championship with the Celtics. 292 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:05.919 The most famous jazz draft story of a player who 293 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.320 slid that benefited you guys, I think, is Carl right 294 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.080 Whenever I look at that eighty five draft, that was 295 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.240 a stack draft. Ewing went and one, of course, but 296 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:17.840 players like Xavier McDaniel, Chris Molin, Dell with Shrimp, Charles Oakley, 297 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:21.919 even a player like Waymon Tisdale, you know, John Conkak. 298 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:24.799 That was a good draft. But Carl slides, you guys 299 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.320 at thirteen and I've heard Frank tell the story a 300 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:29.440 million times, which is a great story. And then, of 301 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:31.279 course I was a kid, but I remember him getting 302 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:33.120 up to the podium and saying, we're drafted a mailman. 303 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.080 So I want you to talk us through what that 304 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.200 was like to watch Carl slide when you guys had 305 00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:39.840 him analyze as one of the top I don't know 306 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:42.799 two or three players. Any other stories as well come 307 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.080 to mind about players that slid to you guys that 308 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:45.799 you benefited. 309 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.840 Yeah, well, well Carl, you know it is obviously the 310 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:53.480 biggest one there was. He was projected during that draft 311 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:59.240 to go somewhere between four and seven, and everybody believed 312 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:02.240 that he would be going no later than seven to 313 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:05.840 Dallas because he was from that area and it was 314 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:08.399 going to be a regional type pick. And and the 315 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:10.600 people in that area that part of the country knew 316 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:15.360 him well from Louisiana Tech. And and then when when 317 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.080 Dallas took I think it was Bill Garnett. 318 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:21.720 Is that who was delashremp Was it Delas Trump? 319 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:25.240 Dallas traded with Cleveland according to the draft have up. 320 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.960 So Mullen went seven a Golden State, Dellas Shrimp went eight, 321 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:29.000 Oakley went nine. 322 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.360 Okay, yeah that was and then and so he started sliding. 323 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:35.799 And part of the slide, as we understood at that time, 324 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.200 and I think it is still the case, is that, 325 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:40.559 you know, looking back on it was just that there 326 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.519 were teams that are a little bit scared off because 327 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:47.519 his his college coach wasn't his best advocate in that regard. 328 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:51.679 He had some some things that he wasn't quite sure about, 329 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:54.159 you know, uh, how Carl worked and and and what 330 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.799 he would bring to a group, and so he didn't 331 00:15:56.840 --> 00:15:59.159 he didn't do the best selling job for his player 332 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.480 and that guard. So that scared off some teams, and 333 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:06.240 he started sliding. And then I know Kenny Green from 334 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.799 Wake Forest was taking number twelve by by Washington just 335 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:13.919 before the Jazz and and I remember Scott saying Scott 336 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.799 Layton saying to his dad at that moment in time 337 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.519 on the draft stage, Hey, we we got we gotta 338 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:23.519 take the kid from Louisiana Tech. And and Frank said, well, 339 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:24.960 what's the matter with him? I thought he's supposed to 340 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:27.799 go like top five, six and now he's at thirteen. 341 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:30.559 Something's wrong? And Scott said, not that I know of. 342 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:33.159 I haven't heard. I haven't heard anything. I'm not we 343 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.960 don't have any intel in that regard. And Frank was like, 344 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:38.919 are you sure that he doesn't have a bum knee 345 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.519 or he didn't have some kind of legal problem we're 346 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:44.320 not aware of or something, because something's going on. And 347 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:47.440 Scott said, no, I don't. I don't know if there's anything. 348 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:50.600 We don't have anything. He said, but he is good enough, 349 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.919 he's talented enough that we just have to take him 350 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:57.559 and then we have to figure it out. And Frank said, okay, 351 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:00.360 I I hope you're right, and that was that was 352 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:02.759 the deal, and then we go and then Frank makes 353 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.839 the call, and then and then I do remember the 354 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:10.319 subsequent press conference talking about it, and someone asked him 355 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.240 about you, you know, think he's gonna come in and 356 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:16.240 help you with your scoring, and. 357 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:17.519 Frank said, well, we don't have a promise scoring. 358 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:21.640 We have Adrian Dantley, and we have John Drew, and 359 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.920 we have Daryl Griffith, and we have Ricky Green who's 360 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:28.240 kind of a scoring point guard sort of, he said, 361 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:31.160 And then you know, we have them a developing Mark Eaton, 362 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:34.200 and we have a young thorough Bailey. He goes, but 363 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:36.880 we're a third third to the last in the NBA 364 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:39.599 and rebounding, so we hope that he can this guy 365 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.519 from Louisiana Tech, Carl Malone, can come in and help 366 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.839 us with our rebounding and some of our defense and stuff. 367 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.440 And then if he scores eight or ten points a game, 368 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.440 that'll be a bonus for us, and you know, thirty 369 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:54.000 five thousand points. 370 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:54.599 Later or whatever. 371 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:58.440 You know, So that's you know, and Spence, you have 372 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:01.680 a million stories like that where where you can take 373 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:04.079 a guy or work with a guy and think, well, 374 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.640 we can put him in this hole and we think 375 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:09.400 he can do such and such here, and then the 376 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:12.920 guy ends up doing something else. It's far beyond that 377 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:15.599 that you're going, well, I didn't know he could do that, 378 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.240 you know, And then you look like the smart guy 379 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:20.920 in the room. As Frank would always readily say when 380 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:23.680 people said, oh, John Stockton, how'd you know he's gonna 381 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:26.440 be such a one of the best Poincauds of all time? 382 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:28.759 And Frank would always say, well, first of all, if 383 00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:31.039 we knew he was gonna be that, we would have 384 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:33.039 tried to trade up and get him in the top 385 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.000 three or whatever, you know, which we didn't. And you 386 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.039 know that that's just you know, there's a million of 387 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:41.759 those draft day stories. You know, probably the biggest one 388 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.000 about guys not wanting to come or whatever. It happened 389 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:47.319 even before that with the Jazz in eighty three with 390 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:50.400 Dominicu Wilkins and the Jazz had the third pick and 391 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.039 they took him and he was he would have been 392 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.440 a main cog in the Jazz group at that time, 393 00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.640 and he simply said, I'm not I'm not moving to 394 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:02.880 the Lake City. I don't want to come. So you 395 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:05.519 got to figure something out. And that's when the Jazz said, well, 396 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:07.559 then we will figure out some other thing, and they 397 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.839 ended up making the trade that brought them John Drew 398 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:14.680 and and and and Freeman and and some other stuff. 399 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:17.039 But it was but that was a big deal because 400 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:18.960 you're you're talking about a talented guy who went on 401 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.839