Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist
Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittles, senior Elections correspondent at the Federalist,
and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. As always,
you can email the show at radio at the Federalist
dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, make
sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and of
course to the premium version of our website as well.
Our guest today is Ryan Morrow, investigative researcher for Capital
Research Center. He joins us to talk about his new report,
Marching toward Violence the domestic anti Israeli protest movement. Ryan,
thank you so much for joining us today on the
Federalist Radio Hour.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: I am particularly thankful grateful that you're able to join us,
because you, as we speak, are talking to me from Florida,
where of course Milton hit Land just overnight and I
just wanted to check in see how you and your family,
of course are doing at this juncture.
Speaker 2: Oh, perfectly fine.
Speaker 3: It's like nothing's going on. I live in the southeast,
so just barely missed it. And it looks nice out so.
Speaker 1: Well, that's good. We're keeping our fingers crossing, and of
course we're saying prayers for the folks down there after Helene,
just as awful as that was, and the potential for Milton.
Do you find it curious at all that this hurricane
is named after the author of Paradise Lost and Paradise Found.
Speaker 2: Didn't even cross my mind.
Speaker 1: M Well, that's why they pay me the big bucks,
my friend. Yeah, we have marked a moment in history
and anniversary, an awful anniversary this month, October seventh. It
was October seventh, twenty twenty three, when we saw the
worst attack, the worst representation of anti Semitism obviously and
genocide since World War II, when Israel and its citizens
were attacked, more than fourteen hundred people altogether, brutally attacked, murdered,
many raped, and terrorized. That situation still stays with us
a year later in very, very profound ways. But what
do we have in the United States and elsewhere, But
here in this country we have a massive protest movement,
not in support of Israel the terrorized, but in support
of Hamas the terrorist. We're in a strange place in
this country, in this world right now. So many nearly
a century after World War Two and the genocide of
the Jews. How did we get here? According to what
you have found in your research, Ryan.
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of this is manufactured.
Speaker 3: What you're seeing in terms of the protests across the
country and the pro terrorist sentiment that's been building for
a long time. There's been extremist networks of various anti
Semitic ideologies within the United States building beneath the surface.
But what was really significant about this, aside from the size,
is the fact that you're seeing these groups that previously
had some ties in regards to like riots, anti police activity,
that had like ties and would kind of help each other,
that have now coalesced so that they're a single network.
Speaker 2: So you'll have.
Speaker 3: Like far left Marxist anarchist types working with Islamist extremists
in a way that instead of resembling just people that
agree with each other and so they work together, it's
more operational, like Hamas and the Popular Front for the
Liberation of Palestine in Gaza, where for all intents and purposes,
it's like one organization. They have a joint command center
and everything's integrated and overlapping, and that's how it is
in the United States, and so we did this study
of as many protests we can find, as many groups
as we could find. Pretty sure, it's the biggest of
the biggest study of the anti Israel protests movement.
Speaker 2: Ever done, certainly since October seventh.
Speaker 3: And what we found was that over one hundred and
fifty groups that are explicitly pro or tied to terrorist
groups in a very substant of way are driving these protests.
So while we would like to comfort ourselves by saying
the bad guys in these protests get all the attention,
but they don't represent the majority of the groups involved.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the opposite is true.
Speaker 3: The vast majority involved are extremes of the worst kind.
Speaker 1: One of the things that we keep hearing from the
usual suspects in the accomplice media, corporate media, and of
course from the current regime in the White House is that,
you know, this is just a small fraction what we're
talking about in terms of the hatred for Israel in
this country and elsewhere. They also talk about, you know,
the sort of mentality that is replete throughout Hamas and
Hesbla and others that doesn't necessarily reflect the people of
Gaza and their beliefs and thoughts. But that's really not
the case, is it. I mean, this is endemic, This
is indoctrinated, and it's not just of course in Israel
and Gaza in the Middle East. It is now as
you report on our college campus. It's infused into our
basic everyday institutions.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It's not just a couple of crazy groups.
Speaker 3: It's not just some students who want to act out
and got together and gave themselves some righteous sounding cause.
Speaker 2: This is an infrastructure.
Speaker 3: It's a big infrastructure that's really kind of terrifying to
the point where it's almost like a political party of
its own, because they unify every conceivable social justice cause
under the anti Semitic, anti Israel, pro Hamas umbrella.
Speaker 2: They'll bring in.
Speaker 3: Pro abortion groups and say that that's connected to the
Palestinian struggle because of this reason and that reason. So
they connect everything, and so it really is kind of
like a seditious political party that has formed. And there's overlaps.
Even though this is a unity between the far left
and the Islamist extremists, that even overlaps with the far right,
extreme anti government, white nationalist types. So in my mind,
the far left far right division in terms of national
security and extremist politics doesn't really exist. This is kind
of all one thing. It's just that the white nationalists
organize themselves a little bit separately, and the Islamists and
the anarchists and Marxists are organizing together. So it's kind
of like two factions of the same problem. And if
you look at the polls, especially for the younger generation,
of what they think about Hamas or the Holocaust or
Bin Lauded or any of these things, it's really terrifying.
And you can dismiss it and say, all right, well,
polls show that somewhere between, you know, like seven to
ten percent of the country might like Antifa or like
white nationalism, r Homoser or whatever.
Speaker 2: But you put the numbers to.
Speaker 3: That that decides elections, right, And they're aware of that,
and that's the message that they're pushing it. They don't
need a majority, they don't even need a big minority.
They just need to have the power to say to politicians,
we decide your fate.
Speaker 1: That's exactly it. It's the political calculus, it's the Machiavellian
approach to it all. It's the Marxist approach. It's built
on intersexualities and intersectionalities, i should say, although it could
be built on intersexualities.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to say that both of those are true.
Speaker 1: Both of those apply in the modern parlance of the left.
But you know, one of the things that we keep
hearing chanted over and over again, and we heard recently
as the protesters took to the st reads the anti
semitic And again, don't be confused here, these are anti Semites.
These aren't just people calling. These aren't freedom fighters. They
are billed as freedom fighters. But one of their rallying
chants is from the River to the Sea. And we've
heard all kinds of as I've looked into this, all
kinds of nonsense about well, that's just a statement about
aspirational freedom for the people of Gaza, the Palestinians, so
to speak, a free Palestine, so to speak. But what
have you learned in your reporting as it relates to
that rallying cry what it ultimately means.
Speaker 3: What it means is that those who are protesting against
genocide are calling for genocide, because when you say that,
you're calling for the destruction of Israel. When they say that,
they are protesting colonial they're advocating for colonialism because Hamas.
Speaker 2: And those extremist groups are puppets of Iran.
Speaker 3: That's not a Helsinian government, that's not even an Arab government,
that's a Persian shite Islamist extremist government. That's colonialization. They
just they just don't think critically and understand that. But
one of the conclusions of this study that's available at
the Capital Research Center website where we list these groups
so that you can kind of see what's going on,
how the threat is shaping up, is that they are
increasingly moving towards violence and destruction that qualifies as making
them domestic terrorist groups. Not just battling it out with
the police on college campuses. They're talking about a nationwide
insurgency to overthrow the government and implement it with whatever vague.
Speaker 2: Term that they choose. And very often you'll hear this term.
Speaker 3: Turtle Island, including from the supposedly moderate and mainstream groups
that want to sound like civil rights activists. They'll say,
all right, well, we're protesting here in Turtle Island, what
does that mean? They're they're referring to a myth in
among Native Americans.
Speaker 2: That we don't really need to get into but basically.
Speaker 3: That the Canada, the United States, and Mexico used to
be Turtle Island, just like Israel used to be Palestine,
and therefore the United States, just like Israel, has no
right to exist, is inherently genocidal, oppressive, colonial, and therefore
should be wiped off the map. So the Israel anti
Semitic angle gets a lot of attention, and that's good.
It should be at the forefront, but look behind it.
How do these people come to those anti Semitic conclusions.
It's not because they do some policy wonk study of
all the possibilities and they come to some intellectual conclusion. No,
they adopt this view that basically America in the West
is terrible. They personally cannot advance in society, and the
only ones who can rescue them and bring about the
change that they feels necessary are either the Islamists or
the anarchists, or the Marxists, or in some cases the
white nationalists. And so it's a fundamentally anti American viewpoint.
And they're very clear that it's not so much that
they hate America because they hate Israel. It's they hate
Israel because they hate America the view Israel as a
limb of America.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they are pro tyranny. Ultimately, at the end of
the day, it is interesting to see the kind of
LGBTQ plus plus plus activists involved in groups that, Let's
face it, if you were in in Gaza, if you
were in you know, on the streets of the countries
in Israel, Iraq and elsewhere, your chances of survival being
in that particular movement, identifying as a member of that community,
so to speak, your survival rate would be in question.
But I want to ask you about this growing movement
toward domestic terrorism. Who are the groups, the main groups
involved And doesn't this seem like a January sixth kind
of moment for the Liz Chainings of the world. I mean,
where are the investigations into these very violent groups, groups
that have participated in violence on college campuses and elsewhere.
Where is the clamor for these kinds of investigations and
the accountability against groups that want to take down really
do indeed want to take down the government?
Speaker 3: Well, we know from public reporting that there's investigations of
some people in some groups.
Speaker 2: Whether they lead to anything, we don't really know.
Speaker 3: But I mean, most of these people that you hear
about getting arrested, they usually have the charges dropped. They're
usually quickly let out, and so it's kind of a
revolving door that's really very frustrating for those of us
that care about this issue. But as for the domestic
terrorism angle, you have groups like Sama Dune, which is
basically part of the Popular Front from the Liberation of Palestine,
which is a communist terrorist group that operates as one
with Hamas and like their leader is officially a part
of PFLP that group they operate, they're instigating things. There's
a group that used to be called Palestine Action that's
now called Unity of Fields, and a lot of these groups.
What they do is they have social media accounts and
encrypted channels where they go and they encourage and incite,
but they provide you with the materials and guidance on
how to carry out and attack yourself, which is the
al Qaeda Isis style of doing it. It's just people
because it's in the context of what they call protests,
people aren't realizing it's it's quite literally the same thing.
And then you have these other groups that are shyer
about advocating for terrorism. So what they'll do is they'll
put out a guide for protests and then you know
there'll be criminal elements in there which they never speak against,
and you'll look at it and you'll be like, I
disagree with what they're saying, but you know, there's nothing
alarming in this. But then if you look at the
URLs they provide where they say, hey, for more information
on protests, go here, go there, what these groups will
do is they'll forward there the readers to a militant
anarchist type website where the second you go on there,
you see that there's instructions for rioting, how to avoid prosecution,
how to resist police, how to engage in what thinks
the definition of terrorism. So some of these groups are
trying to be sly and it's working for them because
they've been doing it since October seventh. Then only until now,
when our study came out yesterday, has anyone even noticed
that trick.
Speaker 1: These groups, these movements do not exist without money and
lots of money. If you track the dollars, who's funding this?
How much money are we talking about?
Speaker 3: It's impossible to tell how much money and individual nonprofit
spending on specifically a protest activity. I mean, they're cheap,
so to some extent doesn't matter. Just as long as
there's money going there, you can do a lot of
damage with a small amount of money. But where's the
money coming from? Again, at Capital Research Center, we study
that there are many, many ways to hide the money.
There's a lack of transparency, all sorts of ways.
Speaker 2: But of what we can.
Speaker 3: Track, we do see that these radical groups, including ones
that hate the Democratic Party, hate Kamala Harris and tell
people to not even vote for them, instead vote for
Jill Stein or stay Home or Cornell West, get money
from mainstream Democratic Party aligned groups. People over at the
Open Society Foundation of George and Alexander Soro's fame, the
Rockefeller Foundation, the Tides, all the big traditionally left wing
groups that will at the same time fund groups that
are fighting anti Semitism.
Speaker 2: But then the other check they're.
Speaker 3: Writing is going to groups like this, and so I
don't know if it's at the top level these big
Democratic aligned organizations. Do I think that they're saying, hey,
let's fund Hamas supporters. I don't think so, because they
fund so many organizations, but they certainly don't care enough
to check if they're doing that, and it's been reported
in the public realm enough that this should not be happening.
Speaker 1: This movement and these organizations absolutely absolutely took over institutions
of higher education in this country. I think Americans, the
vast majority of Americans were AGAs by what they saw, uh,
wherever they could see it. A lot of this information.
Of course, the more violent protests, you know, build basically
by the accomplice media, as you know, fiery but peaceful,
you know that, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: That's one of the conclusions of.
Speaker 3: The study, By the way, is I read just about
every single article about these protests from the point that
they started until now, and I found almost none in
the mainstream media that when covering these protests accurately pointed out, hey,
this group supports jumas, which they could have found just
by going to their social media account and checking right,
so they would quote, oh, this group that said their
name sounds like a civil rights group is doing this protest,
and to the reader that doesn't know anything, they're thinking, oh, respectable,
honorable people are behind this movement. Maybe they're right, but
the reader needs to be told despite what the name
of the organization may indicate now they're talking about blowing
stuff up, killing people, supporting terrorists, I want to annihilate Jews,
like that's a relevant point.
Speaker 1: Yes, those are extremely relevant points. But it's not surprising
that the usual suspects omit. Many of their sins involve
the sin of a mission, not necessarily what they're reporting.
And that was yet another in a long line of
irresponsible journalism, of the dereliction of duty for journalists. But
we're used to that by now. I guess, ultimately, what
I'm curious about what you've seen so far this year.
Speaker 4: I mean, in the lead up to the end of
the the semester, the spring semester, the school year, college
campuses from Columbia to UCLA to the University of Texas,
you name it, we saw these.
Speaker 1: Massive protests, and if you were tapped in and really
looking at some very good reporting on the ground, usually
not from corporate media, you were seeing some real acts
of violence. You were seeing multiple reports of Jews on
campuses being threatened, some being physically attacked. Are we seeing
the same kinds of things on college campuses so far
this semester? Some of that has, some of that been
put to rest, so to speak.
Speaker 3: It's not getting as much attention, and perhaps they're not
as large. I don't know if that's actually true, but
the impressions that they're not as large, but.
Speaker 2: They're still going on.
Speaker 3: The content is actually worse than when they began, because
over time they've grown more radical. Again, that's I show
how this is happening in the study that we publish
that the central core, the most radical core we organize
when we assess this group or this insurgency movement, we
say that there's basically four layers, and the most extreme layer,
the central core, are the domestic terrorists.
Speaker 2: They're pulling the other organizations that.
Speaker 3: Are less apt to get involved in that type of
thing because they're worried of the consequences. They're bringing them
in that direction. So they're as violent as ever. And
one of the things that they're saying because they understand
that this issue won't be around forever. Even if the
fighting were to go on for two years, the news
focuses on what's new and ew the first three letters,
and so it's going to get less coverage over time.
And so what their strategy is, according to their own words,
is to merge the anti Israel pro terror movement into
the anti police movement, and to whatever degree possible, into
every other justice cause. But primarily they want to merge
the anti police movement with the anti Israel movement so
that they expand their numbers, operate as one thing and
they have more longevity instead of popping up and then
the issue goes away and then popping up. So this
is developing into an insurgency. And it seems that Americans,
if it's not a bomb going off or a shooting,
like somehow it's not terrorism, but it is. I mean,
if you're picking up a fire extinguisher and you're trying
to hit a cop with it and you're doing it
for the Hamas cause, I mean, technically it's an act
of terrorism. And so there's all sorts of consequences beyond
just acts of terrorism and how people get killed, how
many get injured, which I still think the injuries are
particularly under reported and underappreciated because that's like not a
headline when a cop gets injured, but the property destruction
causing insurance rates to go up, making Jewish students, pro
Israel students feel intimidated on campus. The consequences of hate
in general, the consequences of anti Americanism in general emploisoning
our civil society so that we can't effectively operate, which
is so critical to everything. If we can't all talk
to each other because everything is so toxic and you
have this filth everywhere, then it becomes very difficult for
American operate. So there's a million consequences to having this
type of extremist ideology spread, aside from the terrorist threat,
which I mean, I'm not downplaying that, because I think
we are looking at a new form of the terrorist
threat that I think the American psyche is not prepared for.
Speaker 2: Because if this continues, we're going to get to a
point where.
Speaker 3: There are consistent small attacks happening again on a consistent
basis that more resembles guerrilla warfare or an insurgency rather
than a nine to eleven type thing. And ultimately, what
do I think is more dangerous the insurgency model actually
the one they're pursuing.
Speaker 5: If you haven't learned your lesson yet, never rely on
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Speaker 2: Be informed.
Speaker 5: Check out the Watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with
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Speaker 2: You get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is Ryan Morrow, investigative researcher for Capital
Research Center. We're talking about his new report, Marching toward
Violence the domestic anti Israeli protest movement. You mentioned it before. Ryan,
You know these groups are bipartisan haters.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah.
Speaker 1: They definitely hate Donald Trump, they definitely hate Conservatives and
Republicans in our political system, but they also hate the
Joe Bidens of the world, the Kamala harris Is. As
much as this administration has tried to placate and tried
to appease these organizations, they're still hatred. But what ultimately
in this election, what are their motivations? I can't imagine
they would want to see a Donald Trump administration but
maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 3: There's like two different answers to that. First, it depends
on which group you ask. But here's basically what their
strategy is. And you can see this in the Abandon
Harris movement and the different Islamnis and Marxist and anartist
groups that are getting behind Jill Stein into a lesser
degree Cornell less is basically what they're What they're saying
is is that, yes, the Trump administration to them, would
be worse than a Kamala how administration.
Speaker 2: But they want to essentially engage in self harm.
Speaker 3: They think they can weaponize the damage to their cause
that they think Trump would cause that the and here's
how it would work. Their argument is, we need to
tell the Democratic Party not to take us for granted.
Don't just assume that we hate Republicans so much that
we're automatically going to vote for you, so we're willing
to stay home or vote third party. And if Trump
wins as a result, they can they believe they can
then make a winning argument to the Democratic Party, we
control your fate. You lost a presidential election that was
just so important to you because you didn't make us happy.
And then they'll essentially seize the Democratic Party or to
some case. I mean, you look at the rising anti
semitism coming from the political right, conservatives as you know,
with some famous names that we know of that are
delving into that type of extremism I could use.
Speaker 2: We see those.
Speaker 3: Portions of our civil society making the argument to the
Republican side saying, hey, look that section of the left
hates the Democratic Party right now. You know, if we
pull away from Israel and we change a few things,
maybe we can win them over to our side. So
that's their political strategies is to tell Democrats we own you,
and as upon consequence of you not understanding that, well,
now you've got to deal with Trump and all the
pain is your fault from not listening to us, and
then also floating the idea of, hey, we might even
switch parties in order to encourage empower the horrific elements
that are anti Semitic.
Speaker 1: On the other side, interesting, we have seen historic numbers
of illegal immigrants, non citizens pouring into this country over
the last three and a half plus years nearly four
years under the Biden Harris administration. How many of the
insurrectionists let's call them, because the left certainly likes to
use that word for the people, for the people who
assembled at J six. But how many of these insurrectionists
are being fed by the millions upon millions of foreign
nationals flowing over the border in recent years.
Speaker 3: That's hard to answer because how do you quantify that
and how you detect it because you just see people
in a crowd and they're not like declaring themselves to
be illegal immigrants or anything like that. What I can
tell you is that the more Marxist and anarchists aligned
pro illegal immigration groups, if you look at their social
media and you look for a broader worldview, in most cases,
at some point they'll say that they oppose all colonial borders,
which means they don't think America should exist. And many
of them will say they don't believe in borders at all.
And so it's very true that some of these groups
that are advocating illegal immigration and doing everything they can't
encourage it want to see America not to exist. It's
not all of them, obviously, but the ones are aligned
with Hamas that's absolutely what they want to do.
Speaker 1: You talk about in the report, This isn't just something
that's happening from Marxist and leftist. Obviously there's a lot
of that dominating what we're seeing out there. But there
are some white supremacist, real white supremacist. It's not the
sort of deep, broad paint brush that we see from
the left's lexicon about conservatives who disagree with their anti
American beliefs. But as you know any report, there are
some white supremacist leaders. Nick Fuentes, for instance, said he
fail hamas over quote all these tricky Zionist Jews, how
problematic and what size are we looking at in terms
of their impact on all of this.
Speaker 3: Well, I totally sympathize with a concern that when you
talk about this issue there's going to be hyperpartisans coming
from the left wing that are going to exploit that
in order to tar all conservatives.
Speaker 2: I totally get that sympathetic to it.
Speaker 3: But I have been involved in counter terrorism issues and
monitoring this type of thing since I was a teenager
for a very long time, and I've got to tell you,
the white nationalist threat is growing. It is getting more
I don't know if you want to say mainstream support,
but it's getting closer to it. Their narratives are becoming
more popular so Nick Twente is like he's considering what
he's saying is frighteningly popular. Patriot Front, all these different
other white nationalist type groups.
Speaker 2: If you look at their acts that.
Speaker 3: They have online, they have big audiences, and they're quickly
reproducing and growing, with new groups being formed every single day.
Speaker 2: And my argument is.
Speaker 3: Is that the far left, far right terms ideally should
be discarded because I think it's counterproductive and also so
inaccurate that in this context they're not even useful because
you'll see islam As extremists doing things like spreading neo
Nazi propaganda, and you'll see Nazis spreading all Kainda type
propaganda and them rooting for each other even though they
want to kill each other. And you'll see the same
thing with the anarchist Marxists and the white supremacists adopting
each other's rhetoric and ideology.
Speaker 2: And talking points.
Speaker 3: And so even though they want to fight each other,
the US, the system as they would call the capitalist system,
that's the greater threat, and they hate each other, but
they also root for each other's success because they believe
an internal conflict, a revolution, multiple insurgencies going at once,
all that chaos ultimately leads to this utopian society that
they're attocking for.
Speaker 2: Whether that's a.
Speaker 3: Sharia based theocracy, or it's some type of communist paradise
or an anarchist whatever they think they're going to institute,
or a white ethno state.
Speaker 2: The rhetoric is the same, the behavior is largely the.
Speaker 3: Same, what they want to do is largely the same.
So to me, this is this is really kind of
one thing.
Speaker 2: Even if they.
Speaker 1: Bicker, it all sounds unpleasant to me. Whether they're whether
they're bucking for their anarchism, their communism, you know, their
their radical Islamism, you know, whatever the case may be,
whatever they're trying to get to, sounds very unpleasant, and
it's interesting. I guess this raises the question on so
many different fronts. It certainly raises the question on the
explosion of anti Semitism in this country, the lack of
understanding and appreciation of history for what communism, Marxism really was,
what it really meant in this world. I mean, and
we're not that far removed from these things really historically speaking.
But the question I have for you, as you've done
this research, the old notion those who cannot remember the past,
are condemned to repeat it. How deep are we into
that condemnation going on right now? Is there any rescue
for that?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Certainly.
Speaker 3: I think perhaps the biggest problem is, I mean obviously
ignorance on people now understanding where these movements are coming
from and what they're really about. In fact, that again
as part of the study, what we found was that
before the attacks on October seventh were even done, some
of these groups were already planning protests against Israel's so
called genocide, and within a few days they're calling for
a ce's far. So it's so the American public is
not educated about how bad these groups are.
Speaker 2: But it's very easy to educate them too.
Speaker 3: It's just there's a there's a problem of getting that then,
to take that extra step to go to a site
like influence watch and just check to see what these
groups and these leaders are really about and learn and
learn the truth. There aren't There isn't really much of
an infrastructure that's bringing it to their faces. You know,
like on TikTok you can have a pro him Mahamas
pro China message go viral and someone who isn't even
really into the topic will get introduced to it, and
then they buy into it.
Speaker 2: There the good guys don't really have anything like that
going on.
Speaker 3: And then there's a series of measures, ten different options
that we talk about in our study that are very,
very doable that could really cut off these movements at
the knees and do a lot of damage.
Speaker 2: So to me, I think that the.
Speaker 3: Danger from these groups are grossly unappreciated, but our ability
to beat them back is also underappreciated.
Speaker 1: Interesting, So I guess you raised this point before you
talked about it. You know, we've talked about political motivations,
but I'm curious, so what ultimately happens when somebody wins
this election. Now this could it could take a while,
as we saw in twenty twenty, But say President Trump
wins the election, what happens then with this movement and
as you've covered it, combined with the Black Lives Matter movement,
all of these intersections. We talked about what happens if
Tamala Harris wins this election.
Speaker 2: I think no.
Speaker 3: Matter what happens, you're going to see a similar reaction.
It just depends on which faction is going to carry
out that reaction.
Speaker 2: So if Kamala Harris wins.
Speaker 3: You'll have you know, the white nationalist types. You'll have
some like real radical people who will say, all right, well,
this is the end of America, so now it's time
to fight. It wasn't justified before, but now it is.
If Trump wins, you'll have a significantly larger and more
well organized infrastructure seeking to engage.
Speaker 2: In rioting and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: And I think no matter what, either side's faction is
going to try to delegitimize the result, whether it's the
leader themselves, whether it's Trump or Kamalas saying, hey, this
this election was rid. It's unfair, I really won, or
if it's just these movements that are part are seen
as part of that political aisle, even though I don't
think they are. In some way, they're going to try
to make that argument, whether it's due to foreign interference
or say the elections were all bought by the evil
oil companies. Is somehow they're gonna say this is the
end the American system and the time for revolution is now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as we've seen it play out over these last
several years in this country. Okay, it's a great report,
but I would be remiss if I didn't, and please,
if you would allow me to go through my investigative
reporter deep crush here and right now you mentioned influence Watch.
You guys do great stuff. I wanted to talk a
little bit more about that because not everybody knows and
they should know. What your organization operates is a site
called influence Watch, and you really are a definitive, in
my estimation, definitive tracker of nonprofits, charitable organizations, and particularly
those working on these kinds of causes. And they really
go into detail in terms of the connections, in terms
of where the money comes from, where it's going, and
who's involved. If you wouldn't mind, how long have you
been doing this and give us an overview of what
you're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 3: Sure well, influence Watch has been around since I think
I forgot when they told me I want I want
to say like twenty sixteen or something like that. I've
only been with Capital Research Center for a bit over
a year, but before that I was involved in very
similar activities but focus solely on counter terrorism, counter extremism.
That's where my career has been. And long before I
even knew a Capital Research Center was, I was saying
that something like influence Watch is absolutely what is needed
because all the evidences out there against to expose these people,
it's all there's just not put together in one spot
and present it in a way that is easy to access,
easy to understand, infallible in terms of credibil and able
to reach both sides, and able to be one of
the first things that shows up when you Google a
group's name or a person's name, have.
Speaker 2: To immediately show up.
Speaker 3: And so over the years I was saying that that's
just what's got to be done, and it sounds so easy,
and Capital Research Center did it, and now I'm part
of the organization and Influence Watches the fulfillment of what
I and others were saying had to be done. And
basically it's a Wikipedia kind of style, but much more
credible website and you just go in there, type in
the name of whatever organization you're concerned with. There's thousands
and thousands of organizations and political activist leaders on there,
and you get all the information that you need about
what their ideology really is.
Speaker 2: It's not opinion, it's just it's just straight here's the facts.
Make up your own mind.
Speaker 3: Here's a list of them, and it's extremely effective.
Speaker 1: Gets drawn from their own words too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like fuckers, Yeah, almost all their own words. Just
like this study. Almost every piece of evidence is their
own words and their own publication, so they can't really
deny it.
Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you as a senior elections correspondent
for the Federalist, and I know my colleagues who you know,
toil in this business every day where we're tracking the
people behind you know, the influence. This is an extremely
helpful tool and I think just to the general public,
just go to the site and peruse it. Look up
any group you want. They're basically there. There have been
very few occasions where I couldn't find an organization. You
guys go through you know the grunt work, you know,
the difficult work of digging through tax forms and checking
websites and all of that sort of thing. So it
is a great site. It is much appreciated. Final question
for you on your news study again, Capital Research Centers,
Ryan Morrow talking to us about his study Marching toward
violence the domestic anti Israel protest movement. How bad does
this stuff get? Does it ever get any better?
Speaker 2: Man? It's hard because we're in such new territory. I
could see if the backlash.
Speaker 3: Turns into substantive education and activism, then it wouldn't be
that hard to push this back. But if I'm looking
at the trend lines right now, I'm not too optimistic.
I think you're going what you're going to see happen
is an increasing move towards chaos and basically an insurgency.
And you'll have one or two dueling insurgencies. It'll either be, well,
one thing, or it'll be you know, the white nationalists
type fighting with Antifa, then the pro homauce types, but
both of them ganging up together on the police and
everyone else, and that's going to increase in popularity.
Speaker 2: I think you're going to see an increasing number of.
Speaker 3: Influencers political pumping being influenced by these messages, either because
they're convinced by the sheer volume of output that they
put out, or because it pays well. It gives them
an audience and gives them a lot of clicks and engagement,
so there's an incentive for it.
Speaker 2: So to me, I think the problem is going to
get worse.
Speaker 3: So to me, the question is more at what point
does something happen that this becomes the national conversation of
how the heck did we get here?
Speaker 2: And how do we push it back? And at that
point is it too late?
Speaker 1: Alarming all around, But I think your report caps into
a lot of how did we get here? And I
think if you read it, it suggests where we appear
to be going, but a lot is still open for experience,
open to time. Thanks to my guest today, Ryan Marrow,
investigative researcher for Capital Research Center, and his new report
on this extremely important area, extremely alarming area. The report
is titled Marching toward Violence the Domestic anti Israeli protest Movement.
You've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour.
I'm Matt Kittle, senior correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be
back soon with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom
and anxious for the fray