Speaker 1: Big Food and on with Cliff and Bulbo. These guys
Speaker 1: are your favorites, so like say subscribe and raid It
Speaker 1: five star and greatest on USh Today and listening watchy
Speaker 1: Limb always.
Speaker 2: Keep it's watching.
Speaker 1: And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 2: Greetings, Bobo, how you doing? Man?
Speaker 3: All right with you? Cliff?
Speaker 2: Oh, just enjoy the weather which is gray and gloomy
Speaker 2: and windy, but I will say it's not a cold
Speaker 2: wind and it's some of my favorite weather because everything's
Speaker 2: beautiful in the leaves and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: I wish I can get out to the woods. It's
Speaker 2: going to be a couple more days, though, I'm looking
Speaker 2: forward to. I'm probably gonna get out Friday and go
Speaker 2: trip around in the woods and try to find some
Speaker 2: tracks in this awesome tracking substrate. And I guess I
Speaker 2: got one more thing going on. I guess tomorrow I
Speaker 2: get to spend the whole day with Larry Lund. Super
Speaker 2: fired up about that cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He was supposed to come over to the museum earlier
Speaker 2: in the week, but uh, something got in his way there,
Speaker 2: so I moved some things around and I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: hang out with mister Lund for an entire day tomorrow.
Speaker 2: He's because he's been digging around in his attic, and
Speaker 2: his attic is full of treasures, and like he was
Speaker 2: saying that, like, yeah, I haven't been back through in
Speaker 2: a while, and he dug out this box of stuff
Speaker 2: and there's all these letters and photographs from Renee to
Speaker 2: Hindon about these videos and stuff, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I want want to make sure you can you can
Speaker 2: see and hear some of this stuff and check it out,
Speaker 2: and if there's anything you want for the museum, you
Speaker 2: can take it or whatever. And so I'm pretty fired
Speaker 2: up about going over to Larry's house tomorrow and digging
Speaker 2: into some serious archaic sort of a hidden Bigfoot history.
Speaker 3: That's hard doing that because you got to like you're
Speaker 3: picking something.
Speaker 5: You're like, well this is rather you start reading like
Speaker 5: it might be like four or five page letter and
Speaker 5: you're like, you gotta put it down so you can
Speaker 5: keep looking.
Speaker 3: But you just you got it. You know, it's harder
Speaker 3: to go through stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Dude, you are preaching to the choir and I'm a
Speaker 2: full time choir boying now because i'd spent about three
Speaker 2: hours last night out in my in my shop there
Speaker 2: in my outbuilding in the cast room. He's just trying
Speaker 2: to organize stuff, and it's like, oh gosh, what is
Speaker 2: this box?
Speaker 3: You know? Oh?
Speaker 2: And I open up. I remember this mostly files as
Speaker 2: fans orchard files. I started digging through there and there's
Speaker 2: a whole file in the nineteen ninety one Mill Creek trackway.
Speaker 2: Pull that out. There's a there's a small envelope full
Speaker 2: of negatives and a couple of pictures West Summerlin and
Speaker 2: some other people. I don't know who they are yet,
Speaker 2: So I got to reach out to some friends in
Speaker 2: the know, so perhaps I can learn a little bit more.
Speaker 2: Find these vans orchards, handwritten notes about certain events that
Speaker 2: he used to pin his two fabulous books, Big with
Speaker 2: the Blues and The Walla Walla Bigfoot, which are fantastic
Speaker 2: books and collector's items that are super expensive at least
Speaker 2: original pressings are on eBay, like one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: dollars a book sort of thing. But they're probably the
Speaker 2: best single resource for a lot of that history. The
Speaker 2: Blues dot dot dot for now, hint, hint, hints, So
Speaker 2: we'll see what happens in the next year or two.
Speaker 2: As I kind of pieced things together. There is so
Speaker 2: much information out there, so much information that it's just
Speaker 2: like I'm going to Larry's house tomorrow, of course, as
Speaker 2: I mentioned, but like I don't know how much ram
Speaker 2: I have left in my brain because there's all these things. Oh,
Speaker 2: and I found a whole file full of bigfoot reports
Speaker 2: from the Blue Mountains from like the nineteen seventies. In
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, I found the original newspaper article when Roger
Speaker 2: Patterson followed up on Bigfoot reports in the Blue Mountains
Speaker 2: and then, you know, and looking through that file just
Speaker 2: brought to mind all these I don't even know what
Speaker 2: to call them. I guess scoffticks like these, I mean,
Speaker 2: they're almost like Charlatan's skeptics, you know, like they're like
Speaker 2: they're like Charlatan's themselves, these people who are casting stones
Speaker 2: abouts and saying that there were there were no Blue
Speaker 2: there were no Blue Mountain big foots until Freeman showed
Speaker 2: up on the scene and they all went away when
Speaker 2: Freedom moved away. They're are you crazy? Do you know nothing?
Speaker 2: And I knew I knew a cut A couple of reports.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: Man, there's files full of this stuff. Man, it's almost
Speaker 2: like a willful ignorance on the part of the Bigfoot
Speaker 2: community about the Blue Mountain evidence something needs to be done.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of that amongst those cynics. How many
Speaker 1: times I well, I can't say how many times I've
Speaker 1: heard on skeptical podcasts that the description of the sasquatch,
Speaker 1: you know, no constriction at the neck, broad shoulders, the
Speaker 1: head shape that's typically described flat face.
Speaker 6: On and on and on.
Speaker 1: All started with William Rowe. I've heard that probably dozens
Speaker 1: of times by now. And it's like once again, like
Speaker 1: you said, do you know nothing?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, like snake oil salesman's on the skeptical side,
Speaker 2: and they accuse us of that.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like no, no, no, no goes both ways here, buddy, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so I do know again, just really really cool
Speaker 2: stuff out there in the room down there and the
Speaker 2: outbuilding and who knows what Larry has? Who knows? I
Speaker 2: mean a couple of times ago and I hung out
Speaker 2: with Larry. He goes you ever see these clips and
Speaker 2: let me borrow this DVD rawm and like a disc
Speaker 2: you know it wasn't a DVD, Like, it's not something
Speaker 2: you'd put into your video player and watch. But I
Speaker 2: put in the computer and lo and behold what was
Speaker 2: on it? And I don't know where he got it?
Speaker 2: A bunch of color photographs of Roger Patterson and Dennis
Speaker 2: Jensen in Indonesia when Roger went over there to try
Speaker 2: to get that sasquatch out of the monastery.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: I think we talked a little bit about that on
Speaker 2: the podcast here, but a lot of people are unaware
Speaker 2: that Roger threw away all the money he made on
Speaker 2: a Wild Goose Chase basically to try to get another
Speaker 2: sasquatch instead of going out to make another film, because
Speaker 2: which is crazy for a man with cancer who knew
Speaker 2: he was dying and thought that with enough money you
Speaker 2: could probably heal himself. But he threw all his money
Speaker 2: away trying to get a live sasquatch capture could because
Speaker 2: somebody sent him a letter saying that they had one
Speaker 2: in an Indonesian monastery, and he and his buddy Dennis
Speaker 2: jen And went down there to try to get it.
Speaker 2: In fact years ago, and I tried to get a
Speaker 2: hold of this guy, and I just could not do it.
Speaker 2: Years and years and years ago, I got an email
Speaker 2: from a guy saying that a gentleman who lived in Spokane.
Speaker 2: I believe. I tried really hard to get ahold of them,
Speaker 2: and I went to Spokane to visit the Freeman, Michael Freeman.
Speaker 2: But this guy claimed to be a young anthropologist back
Speaker 2: in the late nineteen sixties early nineteen seventies, and Roger
Speaker 2: Patterson had reached out to him with this idea dash
Speaker 2: scheme that if they got to Indonesia and the monks
Speaker 2: would not give up the Sasquatch, they were going to
Speaker 2: steal it somehow. And he was part of that whole thing,
Speaker 2: that crazy scheme. Whoa yeah, yeah, and we think, oh,
Speaker 2: Bigfoot history, Ruby Creek, the Blue Creek, Mountain tracks, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. Roger Patterson's film that kind of thing is like, no, man,
Speaker 2: there's this whole other level of Bigfoot history that is
Speaker 2: underneath there if you're willing to scratch the service a
Speaker 2: little bit, And it is so weird and so cool
Speaker 2: and so just intertwined with itself and in this weird mess.
Speaker 2: It's it's pretty awesome. It's pretty awesome. I really love
Speaker 2: that sort of that side of things, and it's a
Speaker 2: site that almost nobody knows about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really cool. That is cool.
Speaker 5: I mean I knew about that, but I don't know much.
Speaker 5: I don't know any details about it.
Speaker 2: Really, no one does. No one does, because that's never
Speaker 2: really really been written down. The only record I've even
Speaker 2: aware of is Krantz briefly mentions it in his book.
Speaker 2: And then there are these photographs that Larry Lunn got
Speaker 2: from somebody, probably Dennis Jensen. I think that he knew
Speaker 2: Dennis at some point. And then you know, another crazy thing.
Speaker 2: There's another bigfooter named Dennis Jensen. It lives out in
Speaker 2: northern California.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a cool guy. He would be a good podcast.
Speaker 2: Guess he's had some cool things happen.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, he gave me. He gave me a bunch
Speaker 5: of cool stuff I got in my boxes.
Speaker 2: Well anyway, Yeah, so I'm looking forward to tomorrow. That's
Speaker 2: gonna be neat. You know, if if there's any cool
Speaker 2: things that I get to see, or you know, Larry
Speaker 2: breaks out or something, I'll be happy to talk about
Speaker 2: next time we're on the podcast together. I mean last
Speaker 2: literally like the last time I saw Larry. He gave
Speaker 2: me that he gave the museum. It's still technically his.
Speaker 2: It's on it's on loan to the museum for one
Speaker 2: of our displays. He gave me the original the oil
Speaker 2: painting for the cover of what's the cover of Peter
Speaker 2: Burns book. The reprinting of Peter Burns book that the
Speaker 2: Big Patterson Gimlin sort of painting. He gave us the
Speaker 2: original that's hanging on the wall in the museum. It's
Speaker 2: pretty cool, man.
Speaker 1: Have there been any other holy crap moments going through
Speaker 1: the mildem archives since that's become a semi regular feature.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest holy crap lately has been pouring
Speaker 2: over the casts, and it's particularly the Blue Mountain evidence.
Speaker 2: You know, I have a couple originals from Most of
Speaker 2: this stuf is from Freeman, but I have a couple.
Speaker 2: I have a couple originals from Summerland, which are neat
Speaker 2: and Summerlin had a tendency to kind of whitewash his
Speaker 2: his casts because his his wife I think her name
Speaker 2: was Pee Wee or I remember right, said that she
Speaker 2: didn't like the way they looked, so he would like
Speaker 2: coat them with plaster to make them look a little smoother.
Speaker 2: But a couple of them have escaped that that fate,
Speaker 2: which is kind of nice, and they even show faint dramaticallyphics.
Speaker 2: But I think the holy crap moment for this last
Speaker 2: week is looking over the footprints and literally just pulling
Speaker 2: out a random drawer and then starting to look pretty
Speaker 2: closely at a couple of these blue mountain casts and
Speaker 2: finding faint and small patches of dramaticallyphics. Now, are they
Speaker 2: sasquatch dramatic elyphics or a human I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if there is a way to tell
Speaker 2: at this moment. I guess the best way to tell
Speaker 2: is to get another expert, Dave's agan or somebody like that,
Speaker 2: and say, do these appear on the foot or hand?
Speaker 2: In some cases, do these appear on the foot in
Speaker 2: the right pattern for that location on the foot? You know,
Speaker 2: I think that's going to be the big tell because
Speaker 2: a couple of the things but I sent him before,
Speaker 2: and they weren't necessarily a blue mountain cast. I think
Speaker 2: somebody else's cast. I think I sent that one first.
Speaker 2: They said that Daves again said these are dramaticglyphics, but
Speaker 2: they they're not at a naturally occurring place on the foot.
Speaker 2: And like his reasoning was that of dramaticallypics, apparently they
Speaker 2: flow perpendicular to the direction of growth of the foot.
Speaker 2: So like if a foot gets longer, you would expect
Speaker 2: the dramatic elypics to go sideways across that part of
Speaker 2: the foot. You know, that's just how they develop. That's
Speaker 2: and that's true of you know, all ape species. I guess,
Speaker 2: although I did find a trackway from November third, nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty seven that I think four out of the five
Speaker 2: tracks have pretty clear dramaticlyphics and dramaticlyphics, I'm leaning towards
Speaker 2: them probably being sasquatch dramaticallyphics for the most part. As
Speaker 2: possible that maybe one of the humans accidentally touched the
Speaker 2: cast or did it on purpose. We've talked about that
Speaker 2: a dozen times in the podcast here. People tend to
Speaker 2: touch things that they're interested in, and then that includes footprints.
Speaker 2: So it's very possible that a lay person or someone
Speaker 2: who didn't know any better, which is most of those
Speaker 2: guys honestly touched the impression with their own hand. Thus,
Speaker 2: introducing dramaticallypics into the impression. But if it's naturally occurring
Speaker 2: on the foot, there are certain places on the foot
Speaker 2: that those dramaticallyfics should occur, and those places are on
Speaker 2: the outside, like the lateral side, like the lateral walls
Speaker 2: of the cast, whether it's the outside or the inside
Speaker 2: of the foot, or the back of the heel, or
Speaker 2: the outside of the toes, especially if there's any mushroom
Speaker 2: effect on the toes or the fat pad on the
Speaker 2: bottom of the foot, and anywhere on the planet's surface
Speaker 2: there's a mushrooming of the fat pad and it expands
Speaker 2: laterally out into the substrate. Those are excellent places to
Speaker 2: fine dramatically fix And also, oddly enough, the toe stems
Speaker 2: between the fat pad, that is, the ball of the
Speaker 2: toe and where the foot actually begins, so that the
Speaker 2: toe stem itself is a wonderful place to find dramatical epics.
Speaker 2: So if the flow pattern is consistent with the other
Speaker 2: ape species in those locations, then I think it's safe
Speaker 2: to say we can be reasonably sure that those dramaticallypics
Speaker 2: were introduced by the sasquatch foot itself, and it's not
Speaker 2: just you know, everybody knows about the Dermals cast. There
Speaker 2: were three prints cast on that day. It was either
Speaker 2: June sixteenth or seventeenth, that's a little unclear now at
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, and those are the most famous one
Speaker 2: because that individual animal is now nicknamed Dermals. But there's
Speaker 2: there's dematicallypics and a lot of the footprint cast. I mean,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if it's as much as maybe
Speaker 2: twenty five or thirty percent of these footprint casts have
Speaker 2: some trace dramatical ethics on them at some point somewhere
Speaker 2: on the bottom of the foot, on the planner's surface
Speaker 2: of the foot. So that's the holy crap moment for
Speaker 2: this week. I'm trying to get out a little bit
Speaker 2: more out of the paperwork and get back into the
Speaker 2: footprint cast a bit. But it is very very impressive,
Speaker 2: really really cool stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of those pictures you sent me were
Speaker 1: so impressive, and like you mentioned the toe stem, that
Speaker 1: was one of the clearest places with the clearest ridges
Speaker 1: that I could see, like immediately. There's several examples that
Speaker 1: are very clear, but that one in particular, and it's
Speaker 1: kind of hard to think about how you would introduce
Speaker 1: human dramaticlyphics into that point because they're not there really
Speaker 1: in the toe impression.
Speaker 6: It's in the toe stem, which would make sense for
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 1: Toes that are if they pretty rough, for callous, or
Speaker 1: if some degree of friction has you know, worn down
Speaker 1: or degraded the ridges so that they don't transfer a
Speaker 1: register or the substrate. But it's there in the toe stem.
Speaker 1: And so I was thinking, like, well, if you made
Speaker 1: toes with your fingers, how would you only get your
Speaker 1: dramatic glyphics to impress in the stem, you know, the
Speaker 1: knuckle basically, and not the fingertip. So I was really
Speaker 1: impressed by that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a very very interesting set. So, like the
Speaker 2: dramaticallyphics thing has been kind of cool. And you know,
Speaker 2: I ran across Krantz's file on the dermaticlypics, which is awesome.
Speaker 2: It has a really nice big pictures, like I don't
Speaker 2: know if they're eight by tens, they might be that
Speaker 2: big or whatever the next common size down is. But
Speaker 2: there's a lot of black and white photographs, many of
Speaker 2: which were used in Krantz's book and his paper on
Speaker 2: dramatical epics that he wrote for I think it was
Speaker 2: either cryptosology or the Northwest Anthropological Research notes, like all
Speaker 2: those glossy photographs are in this file, as well as
Speaker 2: a latex pull of the Wrinkle foot footprint, which is
Speaker 2: pretty neat. They just put a thin layer of latex
Speaker 2: just over the bottom of the foot and then they
Speaker 2: after about two probably three layers, maybe four layers, they
Speaker 2: pull it off to record the dramaticallyphics on them, and
Speaker 2: those are especially interesting to me, as well as the
Speaker 2: silastic mold of the dramatical or the dermals individual as well.
Speaker 2: That was a very important find because unfortunately, of those
Speaker 2: casts that were made at Elkwallow on June sixteenth or seventeenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two, the originals reside in the Smithsonian Institute,
Speaker 2: so I owned them on but I don't have the cast,
Speaker 2: so I don't know what that means legally speaking, So
Speaker 2: like when the stuff was transferred to the museum, the
Speaker 2: legal paperwork has those casts on it, but I don't
Speaker 2: have the actual casts, and I have the molds. I
Speaker 2: have wonderful first generation copies, but I actually don't have
Speaker 2: the originals, and I'd be so interested to see how
Speaker 2: much better the originals are than the first generation copies
Speaker 2: I have, because generally speaking, it's a significant difference. Stay
Speaker 2: tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really really cool. I've just been plowing through slides.
Speaker 2: I think. I think on the last episode I was
Speaker 2: lamenting the sheer number of just slides he had. Some
Speaker 2: were organized, most were not. Many of them just showed
Speaker 2: like primate stuff for like primate powerpoints. But this is
Speaker 2: before powerpoints status useless slide carousels and doing a presentation
Speaker 2: for a class, you know, in that sort of way.
Speaker 2: And so I have a lot of random slides about
Speaker 2: you know, ape anatomy and human evolution and the like,
Speaker 2: human anatomy and muscle groups and just the anatomy stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, because he was an anatomus. I'm putting those
Speaker 2: aside for now and just working hard to document the
Speaker 2: Bigfoot stuff. And that is super interesting, too, very interesting.
Speaker 2: Yesterday I ran across slides of the original cast from
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two the Gray's Harbor events. Now I have
Speaker 2: a couple of the originals. I have one that was
Speaker 2: cast by a Cliff Crook unfortunate name on both counts
Speaker 2: first and last night, I have the original cast from
Speaker 2: that event, and I've seen the original Hereford cast. Dennis
Speaker 2: Hereford still has three originals in his possession. And I
Speaker 2: will say that the copies that Krantz made out of
Speaker 2: those made from those look just like the originals, like
Speaker 2: just like them. They're fantastic. That those silastic molds are
Speaker 2: very very impressive. But Meltrem had another of the casts
Speaker 2: I think copy didn't find sand that I'd never seen before.
Speaker 2: I don't know where the original all of that one
Speaker 2: is but I've found photographs. Okay, let me back up
Speaker 2: a bit. If you go to Bones Clones or if
Speaker 2: you go to Skeletons Unlimited, which are two vendors I
Speaker 2: guess of fossils and skulls and you know, like replicas
Speaker 2: and stuff from museum quality replicas. It's a great resource
Speaker 2: if you're interested paleoanthropology or dinosaurs, or you know, ice
Speaker 2: age mammals or any of that stuff. I love the place.
Speaker 2: But they also have the Bossburg cripple foot footprints, and
Speaker 2: they also have a left and right cast of the
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two grays Harbor casts, two of them that
Speaker 2: doctor Krantz rather cast at the scene. So they actually
Speaker 2: have four footprint casts as well as the giganipithecust skull
Speaker 2: and a meganthropist skull by the way too. But they
Speaker 2: actually have four footprint casts that are from the Krantz
Speaker 2: collection for sale. They've licensed it through I guess Krantz's
Speaker 2: widow or family or whoever whatever the legal thing is
Speaker 2: over there, right, And I've never seen theriginals of of well,
Speaker 2: I still haven't seen the originals of the Cripple foot cast,
Speaker 2: the Bossburg cast, although doctor Meldrum. His mold is of
Speaker 2: the originals, so I've pretty much as closed as I
Speaker 2: can get without seeing the originals. Jeff was given the
Speaker 2: original or lent the originals or something like that a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago or ten years ago, and he
Speaker 2: made copies of them. But Krantz had these nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: two grades Harbor prints that I've only seen through bones clones.
Speaker 2: So but last night I ran across when I was
Speaker 2: scanning these slides, I ran across photographs of the originals
Speaker 2: of those first time I set my eyes on them.
Speaker 2: And to me, that's a treasure, you know, super super
Speaker 2: cool stuff that I've never seen those, because I've seen
Speaker 2: the originals of most of the really amazing casts out there.
Speaker 2: You know, I would venture a guest sixty to eighty
Speaker 2: percent of the original famous casts that are out there
Speaker 2: I have either touched or seen the originals of, but
Speaker 2: I've never seen those, and so stuff like that. When
Speaker 2: I when I when I ran across to cast's original,
Speaker 2: even a picture of it that I'd never seen in
Speaker 2: my life, Well, that's that's cool. I love it. But
Speaker 2: also that's that's kind of rare nowadays, you know, because
Speaker 2: I have access to the original tipmus stuff, and I've
Speaker 2: a I don't have the original I don't have access
Speaker 2: to original Patterson stuff, but you know, I've seen pictures
Speaker 2: of them, so I don't know. So there's always something new,
Speaker 2: always something new.
Speaker 3: I know. It's a lot of work and I'm still jealous.
Speaker 2: Feel free to come up you can help. I know.
Speaker 1: On Meldon's file is one of the things he found
Speaker 1: was a really great painting of Bobo and James.
Speaker 2: Going Bob Gimlin in a canoe.
Speaker 6: Yes, can we share that with with pigeons?
Speaker 2: Oh, of course you can. Yeah, that's a great thing
Speaker 2: to share with the pigeons. They love that.
Speaker 3: That Finley guy from England I think painted that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think Monkey might be in the canoe too.
Speaker 2: She is, She is in there.
Speaker 3: That's so funny.
Speaker 5: I can't believe Meldium had a copy of that.
Speaker 3: He was a big monkey fan.
Speaker 2: He was a huge monkey fan.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He was definitely a dog kind of guy. I remember
Speaker 2: one time he and I were talking about is maybe
Speaker 2: an email or text, I remember what it was, but
Speaker 2: we were going back and forth about one of his dogs,
Speaker 2: and he loved that particular dog because it had one
Speaker 2: blue eye and one brown eye. And he said it's
Speaker 2: so great because depending on which angle you see the
Speaker 2: dog from, it's like you have another one.
Speaker 3: Huh, I got two blue eyes and one brown eye.
Speaker 2: Oh, I make sure I don't see that angle.
Speaker 1: How epic would it be if you found like a
Speaker 1: receipt for that painting in motors files, Like he'd either
Speaker 1: purchase that or commission it, commissioned it.
Speaker 3: He just had like a photo of it, right, Like, no,
Speaker 3: he didn't have a copy of it, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I say it was like a print of it.
Speaker 3: That's so funny, cool stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, looking forward to getting my wrapping my head around
Speaker 2: what's actually there. So when somebody says, well what about this,
Speaker 2: I go, oh, yeah, yeah, let me get you some
Speaker 2: resources on that. You know, let me, let me show
Speaker 2: you the original file, let me show you let me
Speaker 2: played this recording of you know so and so talking
Speaker 2: about that right after it happened. You know, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of that stuff. I haven't even started the audio
Speaker 2: files yet. Holy smokes.
Speaker 3: How much tapes? How much? What is it? Like? It's
Speaker 3: all cassette tape mostly right.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of cassette tapes. There are a
Speaker 2: lot of videotapes, VHS tapes, and a lot of like
Speaker 2: things taped off the television and things like that too.
Speaker 2: But I know he has a couple of VHS tapes
Speaker 2: of like of interviews with people. I know one in particular,
Speaker 2: he visited West summerlind one time and he put the
Speaker 2: his video recorder on the on the table, and you know,
Speaker 2: Wes was like, what's that for? So well, do you
Speaker 2: mind if I recorded? It's one of these, no problem,
Speaker 2: And then West started talking and you know, once Wescott going,
Speaker 2: he just forgot about the camera.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So he has like two hours of West Summerland telling
Speaker 2: tales about sasquatch reports.
Speaker 3: I want to see that, Yeah, so I have.
Speaker 2: I want to see it too. I haven't. I haven't
Speaker 2: even I haven't even scratched the service on that. And
Speaker 2: then he has things he has. He had a bunch
Speaker 2: of micro because sets and then those are vance orchards
Speaker 2: almost certainly Van's orchards with various people. It was at
Speaker 2: art Snow. Maybe it's not art, it's something Snow.
Speaker 3: It's like art Snow. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The Forest Service guy that was with Paul Freeman in
Speaker 2: the in the watershed when he'sound tracks there. He has
Speaker 2: a bunch of interviews and I can't wait to get
Speaker 2: into that, because I did find some a letter written
Speaker 2: back and forth between doctor Meldrim and Vance Orchard, and
Speaker 2: Vance Orchard gave him those cassettes, you know, and and
Speaker 2: doctor Meldrim's response was, it was so helpful to listen
Speaker 2: to the the actual person this happened to, just telling
Speaker 2: it as it happened, like a narrative, instead of reading
Speaker 2: a newspaper article or some report about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I got I got a thing coming up. Well,
Speaker 5: maybe possible to shoot this guy I've known since he's
Speaker 5: a little kid.
Speaker 3: He's a friend's kid, and.
Speaker 5: It's probably like thirty now, no, he's probably thirty three,
Speaker 5: thirty four.
Speaker 3: But he's he's making a movie.
Speaker 5: It's like, you know, full big budget, that kind of
Speaker 5: a documentary kind of deal. And he's gonna let his
Speaker 5: life for one year be determined by rolling dice. Every
Speaker 5: major question or decision that comes up, or even just
Speaker 5: any any decision, he rolls the dice.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I think there's three dice, three die and the whole
Speaker 5: thing starts day one starts, and humble like he could
Speaker 5: take him around the world. He doesn't know where it
Speaker 5: could take him anywhere. But one of the first options
Speaker 5: that he has to choose, and this is going to
Speaker 5: set the course of the rest of the year, is
Speaker 5: he's going to roll the dice. And there's possibility for
Speaker 5: each one of these things to go do, and one
Speaker 5: of them is go look for Bigfoot with Bobo.
Speaker 2: Oh you gonna let that happen?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he's he's I've done him forever and his
Speaker 5: you know families. You know, I've done the friends of
Speaker 5: the Fire forever. So at first I was like, oh man,
Speaker 5: and then I was like, yeah, you know, let's do it,
Speaker 5: because you know, it's like it's just one of those
Speaker 5: real shoot quick shoot things will be out for like
Speaker 5: afternoon evening, like for one one night, like they'll stay
Speaker 5: out there, but it could be like it's you know,
Speaker 5: like a week and a half or something like so
Speaker 5: it could be like totally storming and like just that
Speaker 5: night it's just bunking like heavy winds and rain, you
Speaker 5: know or whatever, like.
Speaker 3: You can just get rained.
Speaker 5: There's you know, a good chance we can get rained
Speaker 5: out or stormed out. So it's like, God, I hate
Speaker 5: doing that, Like there's not much chance to success. Like
Speaker 5: there's you know, going for one night, not much happens usually,
Speaker 5: you know, but if you can get someone out for
Speaker 5: like three four nights or a week or something, you know,
Speaker 5: it's so much more likely you're going to get some
Speaker 5: vocals or something or some knocks. And so it's it's
Speaker 5: just kind of like it's just I hate doing those
Speaker 5: like those, you know, just a little quick because it's it's, uh,
Speaker 5: it just makes it look like, oh, like.
Speaker 3: They're nothing ever happens. You know, this will be this
Speaker 3: will be pretty interesting.
Speaker 5: So I guess I got a one and six chance
Speaker 5: of having that happen, but I won't know until the
Speaker 5: day it happens, because it's just it's just all spontaneous.
Speaker 2: Oh how the tables have turned. You're a get it.
Speaker 6: Welcome to our world.
Speaker 3: I told him, I get it, no problem.
Speaker 2: Just yesterday I was wearing my my my D and
Speaker 2: D shirt has said that the dice giveth and the
Speaker 2: dice taketh away. Now you're going to be subjected to
Speaker 2: those same rules of chance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that was going to elicit a nerd
Speaker 1: from Bobo.
Speaker 2: Mister chance.
Speaker 3: That's pretty classical.
Speaker 5: I mean like that's that's a that'd be pretty exciting
Speaker 5: way to start, you like, live a year of your
Speaker 5: life like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you had a year to spare. But he's young.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because some of the stuff, like some of the
Speaker 5: stuff like it's like options yes to like well, it's
Speaker 5: not just he has options planned out, but the most
Speaker 5: important one is the first one, you know, because it
Speaker 5: goes from there. But uh yeah, I mean it's just
Speaker 5: I think like one of them is like learn a
Speaker 5: surf and bali and like there's no one like go
Speaker 5: to Russia for something, or you know, go to Australia,
Speaker 5: go to Like He's like, there's all these missions that
Speaker 5: can come off of it.
Speaker 1: Well, if you do that, we'll get him on the podcast.
Speaker 1: He might make a good guess.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after these messages. You know, I
Speaker 2: just had a visit from a friend of mine. He
Speaker 2: was the manager of the fishing tackle store that I
Speaker 2: used to work at down in Long Beach, Fisherman's Hardware.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Don is kind of living the van life right now,
Speaker 2: like divorce and whatever else. And he's got grandkids, and stuff,
Speaker 2: and he says, screw it, man, screw the man. And
Speaker 2: he's just become like a nomadic van life kind of guy.
Speaker 2: And he spends a lot of time on the PCT,
Speaker 2: the Pacific Crest Trail a lot, you know, that's kind
Speaker 2: of the way. That's what he loves now more than anything,
Speaker 2: is hiking around. He's like sixty three. He's living a
Speaker 2: great life, something that he missed out on perhaps when
Speaker 2: he was young. I don't know if missed out is
Speaker 2: the right word. But he's living his best life right
Speaker 2: now and he's just killing it, loving it. He just
Speaker 2: spent a couple of nights with us here cruising through town.
Speaker 2: And he's a pretty awesome van. It has orange flames
Speaker 2: on the side. It's pretty pretty sweet. You would love it.
Speaker 2: It screams you in a lot of ways. But we
Speaker 2: were having dinner the other night and I asked him,
Speaker 2: just kind of kind of random, I said, dude, you're
Speaker 2: out in the PCT. All that you're out there alone
Speaker 2: with you and your dog and stuff like that. I mean,
Speaker 2: you ever hear weird thing like Knox or anything like that.
Speaker 2: He goes, oh, yeah, I hear. Also, I just file
Speaker 2: those under the Unknown Noises Department. You know, it's because
Speaker 2: the forest is full of weird unknown noises. And I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know, I get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you ever hear like a it sounds like a
Speaker 2: big dude yelling in the woods or something And he goes, no,
Speaker 2: nothing like that. I've heard ls and howls and things
Speaker 2: like that. Though, of course I go, okay, well here's
Speaker 2: one for you. You ever hear a car door slam
Speaker 2: where you're darn sure there's no cars? And his eyes
Speaker 2: get real big, is yes, what is that about? I go, well,
Speaker 2: I think it's these things. He goes, I have heard that.
Speaker 2: I totally have heard that. He started going off about,
Speaker 2: you know, these various incidents and things like that. But
Speaker 2: I thought that was pretty interesting that someone who has
Speaker 2: no association with the big Foot thing has heard those
Speaker 2: same sort of things and like the John Murror Wilderness
Speaker 2: of the Southern Sierras and places like that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've talked to a lot of like people that said.
Speaker 5: And I was like, how about a car door signing?
Speaker 5: There's no way.
Speaker 3: He's like, like, I've had a couple of going like.
Speaker 5: I was wondering, hocket here, like because the parking area
Speaker 5: was like three miles away, and I'm like, how can
Speaker 5: I hear that door sound?
Speaker 3: Like it's just right here?
Speaker 5: And He's like, you know, I figured out how to
Speaker 5: be like atmospheric and wind direction, and but I just
Speaker 5: could not figure out how I was hearing a couple
Speaker 5: of car doors slam three miles from the trailhead.
Speaker 2: That was perplexing to him as well. And then he's
Speaker 2: heard those like the murmurs, like like, what I know
Speaker 2: no one's camping near me. Why do I hear people talking?
Speaker 2: What are they saying? I can't Yeah, that kind of stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, which you know, maybe there is somebody camping nearby.
Speaker 2: I don't really know, I guess. But still he's heard
Speaker 2: all the classic noises and he knows nothing about the
Speaker 2: big Foot thing really except for what he's gotten from me.
Speaker 2: And when I was in my twenties, you know, when
Speaker 2: I were hanging out together. But I thought that was
Speaker 2: interesting And what are you bringing up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard that sound a few times and it's
Speaker 1: always jarring.
Speaker 6: What do you think of the museum?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: He loved it. He thought it was great and like
Speaker 2: most people who you know, come in for the first time,
Speaker 2: he thought it was better than he expected.
Speaker 1: See, I know, Bobo's met a lot of your friends
Speaker 1: from like, you know, the the normy days.
Speaker 6: Although I know you are always, in your words, always
Speaker 6: a weird guy.
Speaker 1: But there's no one of your friends I've met that
Speaker 1: aren't sasquatch people, you know. So it is interesting to
Speaker 1: when you get that experience of like how normal people
Speaker 1: view it. Like we just went and hung out with
Speaker 1: some of Emily's friends from high school that moved to
Speaker 1: the area here, and they had a ton of questions
Speaker 1: and we had a great conversation, and I remember like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love talking to people who don't know anything about
Speaker 1: the subject, you know, because they have such genuine questions
Speaker 1: rather than as you know, sometimes sometimes when you talk
Speaker 1: to people who know about the subject, you get deep
Speaker 1: on the minute show and it's really fun. And then
Speaker 1: sometimes it's just like, well, why don't you think that
Speaker 1: they're interdimensionally you know, And it's just like you both
Speaker 1: believe in the reality of the subject, but you disagree
Speaker 1: on its origins or causes. So it's nice to talk
Speaker 1: to normies about sasquatch every once in a while.
Speaker 2: It's refreshing, I guess, you know, of course. That's what
Speaker 2: it's like working at the shop, though, like every day,
Speaker 2: every day somebody comes in that, you know, doesn't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, ninety five percent, ninety nine percent of our clientele,
Speaker 2: ninety five i'd say of our clientele are just what
Speaker 2: I call civilians. You know, they just don't know anything
Speaker 2: about it. They maybe watch the shows or something like that,
Speaker 2: or'll read a news item if it crosses their news
Speaker 2: feed or something, but they don't know anything about the
Speaker 2: subject really. So it's a rare bird that comes in
Speaker 2: that starts like spitting truce about Bigfoot, you know, and
Speaker 2: when they do, they stand out and we will usually
Speaker 2: end up hanging out or having a beer or something
Speaker 2: like that. That's how I met Kelly Lemieux. You know,
Speaker 2: cherry bass player comes an. He's spitting stuff about Kranz
Speaker 2: and Meldrum and stuff. I go, oh, dude, you seem
Speaker 2: to know something. He goes, dude, I can teach a
Speaker 2: class on this. It's like, oh, let me school you
Speaker 2: for a little bit. And then I put him in
Speaker 2: his place and now we're good friends. They should be
Speaker 2: back soon. He's been on tour. I'm going to take
Speaker 2: him big Foot in November when he gets back.
Speaker 1: I guess you guys probably get that a lot because
Speaker 1: you're on this big TV show with a lot of exposure,
Speaker 1: and so all sorts of normal people who don't follow
Speaker 1: the subject have been exposed to that show. But for me, like,
Speaker 1: I've always been such a background character that it's like
Speaker 1: only like the squatchiest of squatchers have any idea that
Speaker 1: I exist, you know what I mean. So usually I'm
Speaker 1: speaking to other squatters and not normies. So it was
Speaker 1: nice to sit down and chat with normies about the
Speaker 1: whole subject.
Speaker 2: It's a change of pace and it's always welcome because
Speaker 2: most of my talking to bigfooters, as you guys, I
Speaker 2: don't try to. I don't get out much, you know.
Speaker 2: I get to hang out Larry tomorrow, but it's mostly
Speaker 2: you guys that I talked to about bigfoot stuff, so
Speaker 2: I get more than my fair fix.
Speaker 1: All my friends, for the most part, are people who
Speaker 1: have been doing this a lot longer than me and
Speaker 1: know a lot more than me.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I always want to be, you know, the weak link
Speaker 1: in the room, like I'm here to learn, you know.
Speaker 6: And it's funny.
Speaker 1: We had one guest on who is an expert in
Speaker 1: a different subject matter, but it's a great student of
Speaker 1: the sasquatch phenomenon.
Speaker 6: And I love this guy.
Speaker 1: I don't mean this disparagingly, but after we had him on,
Speaker 1: he called me because we hang out and talk a lot,
Speaker 1: and he was like, no, I'm really surprised Cliff and
Speaker 1: Bobo didn't ask me about like sasquatch stuff. And I
Speaker 1: was like, dude, what are you going to tell Cliff
Speaker 1: and Bobo about the sasquatch that they don't already know?
Speaker 1: And he was like, fairpoint, fair point, this guest is,
Speaker 1: you know, not someone who's in the field a lot.
Speaker 1: Like he's a very well read student of the subject,
Speaker 1: but it's not like he's been engaged in the field
Speaker 1: and interfacing with witnesses and evidence and you know, like
Speaker 1: pushing the envelope, so to speak, in the field and
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So it made sense that we
Speaker 1: talked about his main area of expertise. But I just
Speaker 1: thought it was funny because that was my responses. I
Speaker 1: was like, dude, what are you going to tell Cliff
Speaker 1: and Bobo man that he was like.
Speaker 6: You're right.
Speaker 2: I had a similar conversation. I guess the other day
Speaker 2: in the shop, somebody was asking me if I had
Speaker 2: seen this certain thing on television or whatever like that,
Speaker 2: and I just got no, No, I don't watch Bigfoot TV.
Speaker 2: What am I going to learn from big Foot TV? Man?
Speaker 2: And I prefaced it though, to say, like this may
Speaker 2: sound really arrogant, but like, what am I going to
Speaker 2: learn from Bigfoot TV? You know, I learned about TV
Speaker 2: through Bigfoot and that was enough for me. But I'm
Speaker 2: not going to learn about Bigfoot through TV because if
Speaker 2: anything extraordinary or important is a better word, if anything
Speaker 2: important happens, I'm going to hear about it through other means.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not going to learn about it through
Speaker 2: the History Channel or you know, Travel channel or what
Speaker 2: Discovery or something.
Speaker 3: Speaking of Witch, that video sent last night, you said,
Speaker 3: you know that guy proved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the guy that sent that to me took
Speaker 2: a closer look and he's pretty sure it's a possum now,
Speaker 2: by the way.
Speaker 3: Oh really throwing down branches and stuff.
Speaker 2: Throwing down branches. Yeah, it's just the dark figure in
Speaker 2: the ice shine and the trees and stuff, the trees.
Speaker 3: Getting shicked really hard.
Speaker 6: You might've seen a different video.
Speaker 1: This one was just like a night vision footage, and
Speaker 1: there's one tree that grows out sort of at an angle,
Speaker 1: almost like a forty five degree angle at points, and
Speaker 1: then there's this black blob that kind of rises up.
Speaker 1: You could see how someone would interpret that as like
Speaker 1: the top of a head, like a head peeking up
Speaker 1: and over and then it just drops back down. But
Speaker 1: it also does have that look of like a small
Speaker 1: critter starting to climb up and over and then letting
Speaker 1: itself back down.
Speaker 3: Is it the one where he's like straight outside his house?
Speaker 5: And because I just saw the picture of the video,
Speaker 5: didn't actually play.
Speaker 6: It, No, I know which one you're talking about. That's
Speaker 6: a totally different video.
Speaker 5: Oh okay, okay, I thought yeah, because I didn't actually
Speaker 5: I didn't think get the video of the play on
Speaker 5: a two week a signal. But I just saw like
Speaker 5: the frame you know, freeze stream with the first frame whatever,
Speaker 5: and I thought, oh, it's that video.
Speaker 3: What do you think of that one?
Speaker 5: Are the ones up and the tree of the guys
Speaker 5: out there and he's like, I'm going back on the porch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that one's pretty strange. Quite a few people have
Speaker 1: sent that to me, but I don't know. It's so
Speaker 1: hard to tell with all that social media stuff because
Speaker 1: it's posted on so many different sites and every site
Speaker 1: claims to be the guy who filmed it, every different channel.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things like there's so many of
Speaker 1: those viral TikTok things or YouTube shorts or Instagram reels.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of them are sound only, and
Speaker 1: they use the same sound effects, so it's like the
Speaker 1: same scream and the same howl in the background with
Speaker 1: like different you know, visual images different. It's like someone
Speaker 1: goes out and films the woods and then they overdub
Speaker 1: that sound effect into it. And I just get so
Speaker 1: inundated with that stuff, not only from other researchers or
Speaker 1: sasquash enthusiasts or like Normis will send me that stuff.
Speaker 1: But then you know a lot of our listeners are like, hey,
Speaker 1: have you guys seen this? And so there's at this point,
Speaker 1: there's got to be many hundreds of those, if not
Speaker 1: like thousands out there. And a friend of mine messaged
Speaker 1: me yesterday and he was like, are we just at
Speaker 1: the point where we have to ignore this stuff? And
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I think so until there's like
Speaker 1: something really compelling or it's someone really credible. I'm like,
Speaker 1: to me, it's just unknowable. Like half the time people
Speaker 1: are like, what do you think about this? I'm like,
Speaker 1: I have no idea, man, I don't know the backstory.
Speaker 1: I don't know who recorded it, I don't know who
Speaker 1: posted it, like, and I don't think I can know
Speaker 1: if you were to try, I'm not going to try
Speaker 1: to salute this out. And even if you did, like great,
Speaker 1: it's just another howl in the dark or a branch
Speaker 1: breaking in the distance, Like, so.
Speaker 2: What now with that background in context? You just can't
Speaker 2: say much about anything nowadays, unless unless it's of such
Speaker 2: poor quality it couldn't be AI, right.
Speaker 1: See, that's the thing that one of the things the
Speaker 1: Normy's asked, and a lot of people ask this question.
Speaker 1: We've seen it from listeners. But people say, like, well,
Speaker 1: with AI, our pictures to mean anything. And so I
Speaker 1: think that there's a way that they would like if
Speaker 1: you uploaded the raw video, whether it's from your smartphone
Speaker 1: or a DSLR camera or some kind of you know,
Speaker 1: professional grade camera photo or video, you could upload the
Speaker 1: raw file and put it on something like the blockchain,
Speaker 1: you know, where it's identifiable to you and anyone would
Speaker 1: be able to see that it is the raw file,
Speaker 1: and then there will be a whole other debate like
Speaker 1: there is in the Patterson footage, Like no one debates
Speaker 1: that if the Patterson footage is CGI or AI, because
Speaker 1: none of that existed. So then the debate is like,
Speaker 1: this is a real film, but what's it? A film
Speaker 1: of an animal or a guy in a suit. And
Speaker 1: the same will be true with photos and videos, even
Speaker 1: if you can authenticate that they are legitimate, it'll be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well we know that's not AI, but what is it of?
Speaker 1: Is it a mock up or a maquette or a
Speaker 1: suit or a statue.
Speaker 6: Or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2: I think that for me, at least for me in
Speaker 2: whatever position I find myself in the Bigfoot world at
Speaker 2: this moment, the best defense against that is just trying
Speaker 2: to retain my brand of honesty. I guess, for lack
Speaker 2: of a better term, you know, I think that if
Speaker 2: I came back with a video that was even half
Speaker 2: as good as the Patterson Gimlin film, a lot of people,
Speaker 2: and frankly a lot of skeptics, I believe, would probably
Speaker 2: come to my defense and say that I was hoaxed
Speaker 2: or something, because they certainly wouldn't believe still that I
Speaker 2: don't think anything's going to change that short of a body.
Speaker 2: But I don't I even you know, I could. I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna throw names around anything, but I can think
Speaker 2: of a couple pretty high profile skeptics that would not
Speaker 2: accuse me of hoaxing anything, you know. I would like
Speaker 2: to think that. Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe I'm overestimating
Speaker 2: the humanity of that world. I don't know, but I
Speaker 2: think that retaining a good reputation of honesty and you know, trustworthiness,
Speaker 2: I suppose, might be the best defense one has nowadays.
Speaker 2: But of course, honestly, the good films are probably just
Speaker 2: going to come from the public and not bigfoot researcher
Speaker 2: who's invested their life, you know. So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think beyond the XIF information and all the metadata
Speaker 2: and all that sort of stuff, that that might be
Speaker 2: one's best defense nowadays. It's like, keep your nose clean
Speaker 2: and always tell the truth, even if it's ugly, and
Speaker 2: then you'll probably earn a reputation hopefully that reflects that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and be just as transparent as possible with all
Speaker 1: the facts, and you know, a really solid follow up,
Speaker 1: like in the case of Bart Katino's thermal footage. You know,
Speaker 1: it was the strength of their follow up investigation that
Speaker 1: swayed a skeptic like Phil Polling. And there's you know,
Speaker 1: great coverage of that in one of those recent installments
Speaker 1: of Eli Watson's Mountains of Mystery series on small town monsters.
Speaker 1: I'll link that in the show notes. But you know,
Speaker 1: on its own, that thermal footage, you know, the figures
Speaker 1: are far away, they're mostly obscured. It's not the highest
Speaker 1: resolution thermal I remember, there were some issues going on
Speaker 1: with that. I think it was the H three twenty
Speaker 1: four that Bart was using. But it was the strength
Speaker 1: and the thoroughness of that follow up investigation and everything
Speaker 1: they filmed and measured, like to the inth degree where
Speaker 1: it's almost like overkilled. But that alone goes to show
Speaker 1: you that, like, Nope, there's something really compelling going on there,
Speaker 1: compelling enough to sway someone who was previously highly skeptical.
Speaker 1: And I think you would do a great job of
Speaker 1: doing that sort of a follow up investigation or a
Speaker 1: follow up recreation all the above, you know, I think
Speaker 1: that would go a long way too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would be. I'd be thrilled to do a
Speaker 2: follow up on something I got. Stay tuned for more
Speaker 2: Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right
Speaker 2: back after these messages.
Speaker 1: When I was thinking about mockups, there's a few out
Speaker 1: there that are definitely like still figures, and there's still images,
Speaker 1: you know, they're not obviously like movies or videos. But
Speaker 1: I always thought the best looking one was that mockup
Speaker 1: that was that Cliff Crook put out into the world.
Speaker 1: We don't know who made it, but they what was
Speaker 1: those called the Wild Creak photos. Yeah, yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: there's there's actually like fourteen of those out there, and
Speaker 1: I think I have like eight or ten or twelve.
Speaker 6: I've got quite a few of them.
Speaker 1: But it's very clearly like a roughly eighteen inch tall
Speaker 1: figure posed, you know, like a little statuette or something,
Speaker 1: but it has hair affixed to it. But it's really
Speaker 1: cool looking. Like I always thought that was the coolest
Speaker 1: of all the fakes because it is really high detail,
Speaker 1: and you know, that looks like still from a movie
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: That a little thing was made was used for another
Speaker 2: fake back in the day. One of those documentaries probably
Speaker 2: in the nineties or something, and I couldn't begin to
Speaker 2: tell you what it was called. They have a video montage,
Speaker 2: perhaps a better term up a bunch of photographs, supposed photographs,
Speaker 2: or maybe even fakes of sasquatches. I remember one of
Speaker 2: them was very a ring like, very orange and a
Speaker 2: ring like. But there was that same little statuette was
Speaker 2: in that montage from a different angle.
Speaker 6: Yep, that's the A and E Ancient Mysteries special.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'll post those pictures for the pigeons too,
Speaker 1: because that was such a cool little mock up. And
Speaker 1: you know, there was this sort of loophole in the
Speaker 1: story like, oh, hey, someone gave me these, someone who
Speaker 1: worked for the for service. I never said I took these,
Speaker 1: and that may very well be true. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but you know, something like that. If you had great
Speaker 1: still photos, that would be the question. Then if people go, okay, well,
Speaker 1: you know again, if you uploaded the raw files and
Speaker 1: anyone can download them and see like, these are the
Speaker 1: raw camera files, they are unaltered, they're not digitally generated,
Speaker 1: then the question would be like, well, what is it
Speaker 1: in the photograph? It's a real photograph, but what is
Speaker 1: it of sort of like the Jacob's photos or as
Speaker 1: I was thinking of the Dwayne Freeman photos that Paul's
Speaker 1: son Dwayne got. They're credited to Paul Freeman, but he
Speaker 1: didn't take those. Dwayne got those while they were hunting.
Speaker 1: There's about what four of them, I think, or three
Speaker 1: or four of them, and they're actually really good photographs,
Speaker 1: still photographs of a sasquatch, And because there are blue
Speaker 1: mountain evidence, people don't think they're real. But Paul didn't
Speaker 1: see the animal. He didn't even see the thing that day.
Speaker 1: There's audio recordings of him telling the story of what
Speaker 1: actually happened that day. Yeah, And of course I've recently
Speaker 1: made contact with Dwayne and I'm looking forward to having
Speaker 1: a conversation with him about those particular pieces of footage
Speaker 1: there that those films, not not the films, but the photographs,
Speaker 1: because I think there's a lot to learn in those.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're very, very.
Speaker 2: Interesting, and they do look especially the ones where the
Speaker 2: things walking away, it looks a lot like the Patterson
Speaker 2: Gimlin film. Man, it really really does. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think those are fascinating pictures and likely real, likely
Speaker 2: real people think, oh, Paul Framan, he hopes is was.
Speaker 2: He was hundreds is like one hundred and fifty two
Speaker 2: hundred yards away at that time. He didn't even see
Speaker 2: the animal. It walked right by Dwayne, and he's the
Speaker 2: guy they got those pictures. Really interesting things.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it looks a lot lankier in those side views.
Speaker 2: That's an optical illusion. There are plants in the way,
Speaker 2: there are bushes obscuring part of the body.
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting, because I've only seen those with you, like,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't have those, but I have seen,
Speaker 1: you know, the couple that were disseminated in like newspapers
Speaker 1: at the time, and I think they wound up in
Speaker 1: a few books, and a few of them are online,
Speaker 1: so I'll link to those for the pigeons as well.
Speaker 6: I'll put those in a patrioch.
Speaker 5: All the photos are up there that are available, or
Speaker 5: I'll get them on the web because i've uh, Mike
Speaker 5: sent me, Michael sent me like two of them a
Speaker 5: long time ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's only two that I've ever seen online.
Speaker 1: But there are others from that event, you know, from
Speaker 1: that film reel or.
Speaker 6: Whatever, you know.
Speaker 1: Some of those I do recall seeing, like it's walking
Speaker 1: sort of like left to right. It appears and it
Speaker 1: looks lankier. Then it's not as but it's almost like
Speaker 1: you have Patterson, the Patterson creatures semi turned towards the camera,
Speaker 1: so you're seeing some of that breadth, like shoulder to
Speaker 1: shoulder breadth across the chest. This thing was like the
Speaker 1: shoulder straightforward almost like you know, it was moving in
Speaker 1: a direction it's like parallel to the camera lens, so
Speaker 1: not coming at the camera, but straight left right.
Speaker 6: And I was like, oh, that's that's interesting.
Speaker 1: It looks a bit lankier than I would have expected
Speaker 1: or guessed or something, which is how people describe like
Speaker 1: what I would think would be subadults.
Speaker 2: Give me a minute, I'll send it to you.
Speaker 6: It would be.
Speaker 1: Great for you to get that story firsthand. And how
Speaker 1: far was that from like deduct or some of the
Speaker 1: other famous spots.
Speaker 2: It was on the other side of the watershed. Who's
Speaker 2: over on Biscuit Ridge?
Speaker 6: Is that like several miles? Many miles?
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know, five miles, gotcha? Maybe I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know how why the watershed is, So that's
Speaker 2: a good question. Okay. I found a hold on sick.
Speaker 2: I'll just text them to you guys if that works.
Speaker 6: Yes, sir, that's the one.
Speaker 1: I uh yeah, that's the one that was published in
Speaker 1: newspapers and is in a few books and is on
Speaker 1: the internet.
Speaker 2: Here's probably the one that you're talking about that's lanky.
Speaker 2: That's not the one that has an optical illusion though
Speaker 2: that was just a weird position for it to be in.
Speaker 1: We haven't seen this one, so yeah, that's the one
Speaker 1: that to me looks like the way that people describe
Speaker 1: a subadult. I mean, you can see how much the
Speaker 1: head is like below how much of the head is
Speaker 1: below the shoulders.
Speaker 3: There sounds like a dude to be kind.
Speaker 1: Of yeah, but look look where the shoulders sort of terminate,
Speaker 1: like near the brow ridge, where you know the eyes
Speaker 1: would be.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: See, I mean that would be hard for a person
Speaker 1: to get in that position.
Speaker 2: No, And I just found a map. I found this
Speaker 2: really nice topo map that Meldrum pinpointed where these pictures
Speaker 2: were taken and also pinpointed where the original June tenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two encounter was. And I was a little
Speaker 2: bit off on the eighty two encounter. I thought that
Speaker 2: was like maybe half a mile away or a mile away.
Speaker 2: But it turns out that I was, I can get
Speaker 2: there apparently it's unless things have changed since eighty two
Speaker 2: or whenever. It's not technically in the watershed, so I
Speaker 2: can actually get to the spot.
Speaker 3: Crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that one of the kind of PG posed
Speaker 2: there A lot of the body is obscured by brush.
Speaker 1: See, I had not seen that one. The one I
Speaker 1: was thinking of when I said it's like side on
Speaker 1: with the lens, is that the one decent words, You
Speaker 1: can see that the shoulders relative to the position of
Speaker 1: the head, like the shoulders are like even with the
Speaker 1: brow ridge almost.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have a real big problem with that one,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, that's that's the least convincing one there,
Speaker 2: I think, except for maybe the we're a lot of
Speaker 2: the body's obscured. But that that early one. Man, that
Speaker 2: that one looks just amazing to me. That looks very
Speaker 2: very good.
Speaker 3: This is strange photo. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5: It was a film, like I'm pretty sure right, it
Speaker 5: was just it was camera film. Yeah, so they should
Speaker 5: be like, can't they clear it up more like a
Speaker 5: professional cleaning up really good?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm hoping that the negatives are around
Speaker 2: here somewhere. I don't know if Michael has them or not,
Speaker 2: but Michael, hopefully Michael has the negatives of these and
Speaker 2: you can bring them out because we're going to do
Speaker 2: an event with Michael in December.
Speaker 3: Oh thanks for something close cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, they're neat. They're neat and of course the
Speaker 2: Freeman names on it, so they got to be fake supposedly, right.
Speaker 1: Like I said, I'll link to the ones that are
Speaker 1: already online for the pigeons there so they can check
Speaker 1: those out.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And of course, and in Michael's book, one of the
Speaker 2: QR codes of these pictures are in Michael's book. By
Speaker 2: the way, in the Freeman Files by Michael Freeman, there's
Speaker 2: a QR code of Paul Freeman telling the story of
Speaker 2: that day how these pictures came about.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'll have to go back and listen to that
Speaker 1: because I haven't listened to all the audio clips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, super interesting. I'll tell you a man, the Blue Mountain.
Speaker 2: The Blue Mountains have a bigger story to tell, much
Speaker 2: bigger story than what people know about.
Speaker 1: Maybe I should endeavor if you if you need a hand,
Speaker 1: because I've never been out there. I've driven through on
Speaker 1: what's the interstate that's kind of near there, that passed
Speaker 1: through there. That's my total exposure to the Blues. So
Speaker 1: maybe I can carve out some time, and if you're
Speaker 1: heading out there to do stuff and need a hand,
Speaker 1: I will volunteer because I'd love to see it and love.
Speaker 6: To see those places. But it would just be great
Speaker 6: to be out there.
Speaker 2: Oh, the Blues are great and I found tracks both
Speaker 2: times I went in the last two years. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: ground out there, and that's not the thing that people
Speaker 2: don't appreciate about the Blues, the substrate. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of bear dirt around. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: you know, stuff and stuff as well, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of bear dirt in that area.
Speaker 2: And that dirt what is the word is a geologic term.
Speaker 2: It's like niece or something like that. LUs l oess. Okay,
Speaker 2: there you go, luss glacial luss glacial runoff that is
Speaker 2: kind of angular, so it holds together really well. Like
Speaker 2: the tracks I found, like really nice tracks, I think,
Speaker 2: and I set you pictures. I can always send you
Speaker 2: more if you want to post it for people. But
Speaker 2: the track I found one of the springs up there
Speaker 2: this past July or August. When I was this past year,
Speaker 2: it was old. It had to be three four weeks
Speaker 2: old or more a month and a half old or something.
Speaker 2: It was quite old, but it still held enough of
Speaker 2: a shape together. You could see the toes, you could
Speaker 2: see the mid tartal pressure ridge, you could see how
Speaker 2: the heel came at a different angle. And it was
Speaker 2: a very very cool track. But it's a tribute to
Speaker 2: the soil which most people, and especially the Scofticks do
Speaker 2: not appreciate, that this soil that you have in the
Speaker 2: Blue Mountains holds tracks really well. Another great example is
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety one Mill Creek trackway. You know, those
Speaker 2: tracks were laid sometime in the first half of January.
Speaker 2: They were discovered by lay people, Paul and his wife,
Speaker 2: I think Nancy, if I remember. I think that was
Speaker 2: Paul's wife's name. They were having breakfast in a little
Speaker 2: greasy spoon somewhere in Walla, Walla, and they heard somebody
Speaker 2: at the next table talking about bear tracks that they
Speaker 2: had found out in the on Biscuit Ridge five points
Speaker 2: area now by Mill Creek. In there, Coyote Grove and
Speaker 2: all that area, all the same area, same ridge basically,
Speaker 2: and Paul thought that was really weird because it was
Speaker 2: January and there's snow on the ground and what are
Speaker 2: bears doing out now? That's weird. So he called West
Speaker 2: Summerlin and they went and I think checked it out.
Speaker 2: I think West was there when they for I'll find
Speaker 2: out more. That's what Michael's gonna be doing a presentation
Speaker 2: at the NABC in early December. I haven't announced it yet,
Speaker 2: the date or anything like that. No tickets have gone
Speaker 2: on sale or anything. But he's going to be doing
Speaker 2: the presentation, I believe, on the nineteen ninety one track.
Speaker 2: So I'll be learning a lot more through Michael and
Speaker 2: his experience through them. But when they got out there,
Speaker 2: they weren't bear tracks at all. They were sasquash tracks,
Speaker 2: and it was one of the best track ways ever.
Speaker 2: I mean a guy named Greg May who was this
Speaker 2: outdoor survival dude who taught up at Pullman with Krantz.
Speaker 2: He tracked this thing six miles six to eight miles
Speaker 2: into the woods uphill and they say Paul Freeman hoaxed it.
Speaker 2: It was crazy because Paul Freeman was walking with a
Speaker 2: pain at that point in his life. He couldn't go
Speaker 2: more than like thirty yards from the truck. But yet
Speaker 2: he's the guy that please. Is so ridiculous. Anyway, those
Speaker 2: tracks were laid down sometime in the first half of January.
Speaker 2: But I have a track that was cast from that
Speaker 2: same trackway. I have a cast from that same trackway
Speaker 2: that was cast in early February. The point being the
Speaker 2: ground in the Blues holds the impression really, really well
Speaker 2: and for a very long time. Yeah, which is a
Speaker 2: point completely lost on the skeptics. You know, the tracks
Speaker 2: there look so good because so much of the percentage
Speaker 2: of the ground. I guess such a just square yardage
Speaker 2: of ground is conducive to taking tracks, and they stay
Speaker 2: there for a long long time.
Speaker 6: I'd love to see it.
Speaker 1: So if you need a strong back and a weak mind,
Speaker 1: I'll come out there.
Speaker 2: Well, I got half of that covered already. Man, you
Speaker 2: can carry stuff for me, That's what I'm saying. Well,
Speaker 2: you just tell me when you're coming and we'll make
Speaker 2: a trip out of it. It's great, you'll love it.
Speaker 2: We'll find well. I found wolf tracks last three times
Speaker 2: as I've gone. Bear tracks are plentiful. There's a ton
Speaker 2: of deer and elkin there. The there's asquatches. It's a
Speaker 2: great area and it's ridiculous.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would love to see that.
Speaker 3: I too.
Speaker 2: Have you not been to the Blues Pops, I've been
Speaker 2: to the Blues besides when we filmed there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been there one other time. Nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing there. I love it there, and it's
Speaker 2: only four hours four and a half hours for me.
Speaker 5: I mean I almost moved there with Karta, like right
Speaker 5: on the edge of there, but it was two in
Speaker 5: the plains.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Walla Walla is. I mean, I know some good
Speaker 2: people who live there, but I don't think i'd want
Speaker 2: to live in Walla Walla because of the lack of
Speaker 2: you know, trees and.
Speaker 3: Dude, there was no tree. It was like where we
Speaker 3: would be living there. We were like eight miles from
Speaker 3: trees or something. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And as much as I love some of the people there, yeah,
Speaker 2: I have good friends who live there, you know, dar Addington,
Speaker 2: Reggie Bird, like, there's a bunch of rad people who
Speaker 2: live out there. Just love them the bits, you know,
Speaker 2: the Summerland family is still out there and you know,
Speaker 2: but I don't know, it's not worth it. Because I
Speaker 2: like to be alone, first of all, and I like
Speaker 2: to be alone in the woods, and they're in the
Speaker 2: woods up there in the mountains are not accessible very often,
Speaker 2: you know, Like for you can't get the d Duck
Speaker 2: Springs and on a good year you can get there
Speaker 2: towards the end of June, and then it shuts down
Speaker 2: again in October. That's not enough for me.
Speaker 3: So we're going to discuss some articles.
Speaker 1: Should we put a bow on this one? And then
Speaker 1: there are still some overflow Patreon questions and so we
Speaker 1: can keep chatting there and then tackle some of those
Speaker 1: in that way, clear out the Patreon inbox.
Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah, well, folks, you either love this episode or
Speaker 3: hate it. We'll see.
Speaker 2: Well, we have a love hate relationship. I think I
Speaker 2: think all of our listeners have a love hate relationship
Speaker 2: with us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but thanks for tuning in either way, we appreciate it.
Speaker 4: If you liked it, share your thoughts, give us five stars,
Speaker 4: review and something saying something nice and until next week,
Speaker 4: y'all keep it Squatchy.
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