Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host,
and we have my old buddy Dean Alioto on tonight.
It's always fun to have on. He's going to be
talking about his film. And before that, I have Samantha
Graves coming on and she has a project in the Berkshares.
And if you have not seen the Netflix the Berkshiars
UFO segment, it's featured. I think it's episode five, volume one,
Unsolved Mysteries on the reboot. You got to check that
out if you have not seen it. She is working
with people in that area. Now. Our blog this week
by Charles Lear is a boy hit with a paralyzing
beam of light. Now. That happened down in mass Choose
where there's a famous it's a concert area there, Great Woods.
We used to be there in that area. That happened
in nineteen eighty. It's quite a bizarre case and worth
checking out on our blog podcastufo dot com and anyone
can support the show for two dollars or more a
month if you want an ad free audio experience, and
if you want an AD free experience here on YouTube.
All you have to do is show up live or
there's Facebook, Twitter, places like that. We do a live
show also. We have a show coming up. Mark d'
antonio and I are back here Thursday evening at eight
pm Eastern, and we're going to be talking about the
latest UFO file release that happened on July tenth, and
we're going to go through that, just the highlights and
some of the weirder things that people are talking about.
And yeah, it's been interesting times, I think, and we'll
see how all these things go in the future, but
for now, I'm bringing in my guests. Samantha, welcome.
Speaker 2: Hi, thank you Martin. It's good to be here.
Speaker 1: So good to have you back again. So do you
want to talk a little bit about the project that
you're doing. I did put the I know you gave
me a graphic. Here's here is basically the graphic. Go ahead,
and if you would explain what you have been working on.
Speaker 2: Yes, right now, we have a questionnaire that's live. And
I know that you and I have talked in the
past about the Berkshire UFO event. The event itself that's
most notably talked about is the September first, nineteen sixty
nine event, in which people from multiple states but largely
in southern Massachusetts or western Massachusetts rather spotted a craft
in the air. There were multiple abductions reported that evening,
including abductions of entire families. So it's a very unique event.
But in talking with some of the people, I found
out that there's a lot more to the story and
a lot more that happened, both before nineteen sixty nine
and following. We've talked in the past about the five
crop formations that have been found where the highest number
of abductions occurred. Those abductions generally were concentrated in the Sheffield,
Great Barrington and Egremont areas. Because the scope of these
stories is larger than what can be represented in a
podcast or on a documentary, A few of the abductees
and myself got together and we decided, let's come up
with a series of quantitative and qualitative questions that can
get at the heart of what's maybe happening. So we
wanted to tease out via a large data set, some
details that might be compelling. The thing with ufology, and
again I'm not from this world, I'm a historian. So
the thing with uthology that I find is that there
are a lot of stories that are told, and stories
are very useful and important, But what I think needs
to happen more often, And there are great data sets
out there, but I think what needs to happen more
often is when you have a high concentration of these
reports in an area, collecting that data and collecting all
of it from the blood type of the individuals that
are involved. What happened twelve hours prior to the event,
what happens twelve hours after the event? Is there any
kind of noticeable weather happening at the time, aspects to
the story that maybe are overlooked when someone's interviewed for
a podcast or a documentary. So that's what I'm working with.
Melanie Kirchendorf, who was featured in the Netflix documentary.
Speaker 1: Yes, very nice lady, very nicely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, along with Wendy and Merrill who's also helping out.
She had a sighting as well.
Speaker 1: So let me just ask you before you go here.
I have talked to other people that have done surveys,
and a lot of times there's commonalities. Are you finding
that already?
Speaker 2: Yes, so one of the big things something that I'm noticing.
But I want to caution against putting anything any meaning
to it yet because again we have a very small
data set, but we're already seeing a correlation between I
shouldn't use that word, but we're seeing a connection possibly
between siblings. So when one sibling is abducted and another
sibling is also taken, they're generally within a twenty four
month age difference. Sorry about my dog, I hope you
can't hear that.
Speaker 1: That's all right.
Speaker 2: So that and they share a blood type, they're also
the same gender. Now, again I have a very small
sampling right now. So what I'm hoping to do through
the questionnaire is to gather information from individuals in the
Berkshire area in the western Massachusetts area who have either
had a CE two or a CE three close encounter event.
And that's the Jail and Heinett classification that looks at
C In cases of CE two, whether an individual has
seen and had seen an object and maybe there's an
artifact left behind, something an indentation in the soil, or
maybe a burn mark on the individual, but they don't
see a being. And then the close encounter of the
third kind is where they actually interact or see a being,
a robotic figure, some kind of entity. And so those
are the individuals we're hoping to find, and again it
doesn't have to be related to the nineteen sixty nine event.
We're also researching some events that took place in the
nineteen eighties. So it was really curious to me that
your blog is featuring that this week. There's an individual
who was affected in the early nineteen eighties and Egremont,
and so we're following some physical evidence of that case
and it's very exciting. But yes, there's a lot out there.
There are a lot of people who've had experiences, as
you and I both know talking with authorities in that area.
They don't discourage it, they believe it. They have had
experiences themselves. So I think it's definitely an area of
high concentration that we want to pay attention to. But
to do it scientifically, we have to do it correctly,
and that means we have to correct or we have
to connect the data and make sure that the data
set is large enough so that we can correlate, make sibility,
tease out some kind of explanation.
Speaker 1: I know they're not going to abduct that dog he's behaving.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No.
Speaker 1: One of the things that they talked about in commonalities
or someone was trying to, I don't know, maybe push
the agenda of the possibility of RH negative blood type.
And I'm just wondering, has that come up at all
in any research? Can you even mention that if.
Speaker 2: The articles about it? But no, not in my research.
The only reason I even found out about the RH
negative blood type was that I saw that the siblings
were sharing blood types that seemed to be in common
so far. But yeah, not specifically OURH negative.
Speaker 1: Okay, So just if you would, how can someone if
someone is listening to this and watching it later or
listening later, how can they get a hold of you
and participate?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I'm hoping you put a link in the description,
will okay, fantastic, And so if they click that link,
it'll open to the form. They can sit their experience
on the form, and they can do so anonymously if
they wish. The first five questions are basically trying to
figure out how they want their information presented. In the end,
this information is not going I'm not writing a book,
I'm not making a documentary. I just want to collect
the information so that researchers have access to it. So
if there if they want their name to appear it ken.
If they don't, it'll be assigned in number. But yeah,
so click the link, fill out the form, and then
my email is at the bottom. If there are photographs, drawings,
anything they want to include as well, we can collect
it and include it in the data set.
Speaker 1: Okay, sounds wonderful, So thanks so much. And yes, if
anyone listening to the show or watching the show, all
you have to do is go to the show notes
and that link will be there. Thanks so much, Samantha,
always nice to talk to you.
Speaker 2: You as well.
Speaker 1: Take care, Martin, all right, you too, take care and
Dean welcome Dean.
Speaker 3: Hey, I'm a little disappointed. I want to hear more
of Samantha, and I definitely want to hear more from
her dog.
Speaker 1: Something being imparted.
Speaker 3: I'm running through a filter right now, but I think
that the dog was trying to say something.
Speaker 1: There was some type of yeah, we'll check the algorithms
and the vibrations and stuff. There's something being said there.
I think you're right. Yeah, as you can tell everyone
if you haven't seen Dean before. He's a lot of fun.
Always fun to have you here. And I think it
was just what three four weeks ago we were out
in California, was it? I don't know, time's flying?
Speaker 3: You have missing time? My friend?
Speaker 1: I think I do. Yeah, May eighth through the third Yeah, yeah,
but fun times. I always loved doing that. Always a
lot of fun. Yeah. Great, And I would have to
say a lot of people that I talked to just
in the hallways and everywhere else loved your movie, and
myself too. I thought you did a wonderful job. This
is a long time listening. Mary Grace Kirby, thank you
for saying hi to both of us, and thank you
all over in the chat for being here and participating.
I appreciate it. And also, if anyone wants to questions
as we go along here, if you just put it
in caps, that would be good. So, Dean, we're going
to play your trailer here in just a second. But
i'd like to ask you when you first started looking
at this topic. You and I've known each other for
a long time, but when you first started looking at
this topic, was the experiencer part a little tricky for
you to ooh, maybe that's a bridge too far or
something like that, or did you right away embrace that
it had to be part of it?
Speaker 3: It was going to be part of it, but it
ultimately Here's the thing I often refer to these documentaries.
I aspire to make these science documentaries, which I've done
beforehand in TV. By science documentaries, I mean, I want
to look at this as a science based thing and
be agnostic and present it as a menu to the
audience so they can decide, oh, this resonates with me.
The extratermpstrial theory are that they're from another dimension or
a matrix, if you will. And the challenge was to
put it all in one dock, and I failed at
that because there was too much meat leading up to it,
and to take not just the UFO community who could
handle it, but to take the general public that needs
to understand this. Right. We want to get the UFO
curious on board here. I needed to have the first
two documentaries, Alien Perspective Part one and two. I needed
to have those be where we go from NASA very
grounded and Kevin Kanuuth and looking at material as well.
But looking at the first documentary was looking at where
are they coming from? And so it was all about
that where these beings coming from? And then the second
one was why would they be coming here, and so
it teed it up nicely for another doc, which was
the new one, the Experiencer's Full Disclosure, And the reason
that one didn't become a Part three was that it
was so expansive when these two sisters showed up, and
there are new experiencers, and so the idea that the
experiencers that it isn't happening or as much is wrong.
There's certain aspects of it that have shifted and pivoted,
for sure, but it's still going on and these two
sisters are in their twenties. So I took the approach
that James Fox did with the phenomenon, and I had
a chance to see an early cut of that when
I was consulting on the phenomenon and see how what
he had done, which was terrific James Fox had done,
which is he was kind of doing the Encyclopedia Britannica
of the highlights of UFO cases. So anytime I want
to say to someone, hey, you want to get into
the nuts and bolts, start here. And so I wanted
to do the same thing. And it took me eight
years to get there, to do it with experiencers and
to be able to say, all right, we are going
to walk you into this and we're going to look
at the classic cases starting with Benny, Betty and Barney Hill,
but we're going to animate as an example of where
we tried to update things. We're going to give you
some new information on it, but we're also going to
take the regression tapes, play it for you and have
animation over it. That's exactly what the car looked like,
exactly what the beans, et cetera. And so we walked
through a lot of these cases, Travis Walton, et cetera.
And then we get into these guys and interwoven are
these sisters, and so it just became a so much
more beefier thing that that had opened up a whole
other thing.
Speaker 1: So that's how I was actually with you all along
the way here, and we were talking about different things
that I remember your struggles and whether you're going to
break this off at one point. I remember the whole
thing all the way through. And I have to tell
you this praise that I have actually given you that
you never knew of. But the number of times I
have talked on this very show about how impressed I was.
We just mentioned Kevin Knutham and the materials and how
we followed that all the way through that movie, and
that the very end he finds out they're just earthly
materials and he said, as that science. And I thought, bravo,
bravo for not trying to make it some big splash,
or not even putting in or editing it out or
making it sound like it's something anyway. That's that's Kudosio
for doing it in that way, because thank you. That's
very respectful. And I think a lot of filmmakers would
have a hard time putting the hard answer to something
like that in a film, because everyone wants sensationalism mostly.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I was agnostic about it. My feeling was
I want to follow the protocols that would be done,
and instead of having someone who might be at a
nice college, a reputable college, but doesn't specifically work in
extraterrestrial metals, which is someone who studies meteorites and comments,
I'm going to go and get that person who does that,
and I'm going to go direct to that person and say,
all right, you're the pioneer in this field. And that
happened to be Francois, who was over at in Caltech,
which is the mothership the material analysis, and so whatever
happened was going to be what it was. And when
I talked to Kevin Kanu, kudos to him, he said
he would accept whatever the results were going to be.
Speaker 1: Now that's real science, that'sural science.
Speaker 3: And he says that, and for me, it was that's okay,
Now we can take that off our plate and we
can move on. But I wanted to show in real
time us doing this and I had no idea zero.
When the results were given to me, it was the
same time that Kevin got it all on camera. So
that's a genuine moment. There is one little caveat which
is if Michael, doctor Michael Masters extra trempestrial theory is
correct that there are us from the future, then one
could argue that this makes total sense that the material
would be terrestrial. But it didn't show any signs of
design that were futuristic design. But again it's at the
end of the day, the bigger messages that we keep
looking and we keep analyzing this stuff, and we sharpen
our tools.
Speaker 1: And I've written this by Mike for that, what if
we completely wipe ourselves out, which very possible and something
else comes up and that is what is coming back
to see us. I mean, yeah, but anyway, that's just
the thought and I want to put up. We have
our first question here from Bob Blazar. Yes, do you
actually think the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance is pushing us closer
to disclosure or do the viewing public largely ignore anything
coming out of Hollywood?
Speaker 3: Huh? I don't think so. I don't not that. I
don't think that the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance group is ineffective.
It's just ultimately it's going to be a combination of
all the above. It's going to be the politicians going
to behind it. Ultimately they're the ones that are the gatekeepers.
So the Alliance group is just to in my understanding,
I'm not a member, but my understanding of it is
that they're just trying to create awareness and get this going,
which is great. It's another steak in the fire, if
you will. I think that the politicians, I think they're
the ones that are now in charge and pushing it
and getting the disclosure like we haven't seen before and
so too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I'm kind of a little bit excited about
it because I think you and I have had a
discussion along the way this is just going to die out.
This is back in twenty twenty three after David Grush
had his hearing there, and I think you and I
had a discussion. We've seen this before. The people are
going to lose interest and they're going to just tickle
it along until everyone kind of falls asleep and looks
out for something else. But I feel it's different. I
do feel it's different.
Speaker 3: I know it is different, and it's you'll see in
the trailer that we're we've seen the nuts and balts
and we can continue with that. But what I've been
saying since twenty eighteen is can we talk about what's
down the hall and the Someone could do a supercuts
of what I've been saying. But the hearings have been
the yelep and tail, but no one wants talk about
the elephant in the room. And now we're going there
the Hollywood Forum or excuse me, the disclosure form that
happened a few weeks ago. That was monumental because you
had Matthew Brown coming out and talking about the experiencers,
and you have Willie Strieber who spoke briefly but eloquently
about the experiencers and it's time for them to have
their day in the sun. And so the timing of
all that with the new film was and I think
things happened for a reason. I think timing. I've seen
some of the comments where they say, huh, you have
Disclosure Day and they have the experiencers full disclosure had
that come about, And I'm like, yeah, it doesn't quite
work that way. The universe might work that way, but
as a filmmaker, I wanted to be done with this
four years ago, and so literally it just ended up
being there. But the good news is that as far
as what it's done for us is we've been called
the real life Disclosure Day, and some of the things
that people wanted in Disclosure Day are in our film,
just by the nature of the word experiencers, which for
the first time in a Hollywood film, in Spielberg's Disclosure
Day was mentioned twenty minutes in and then sixty three
minutes in. That's amazing. That's now part of the vernacular.
And things happen for a reason.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, let's get this trailer up and going
right here.
Speaker 2: You will, like the anxious or distress, I can remember
everything and you will tell me everything. I just thought
it was a dream, didn't really think anything of it.
But apparently it's not common to have identical dreams with siblings.
Speaker 3: They took us, and they hurt us.
Speaker 1: It's not easy to talk about. That was the greatest fear.
Speaker 3: I've ever experienced. What do you remember from that moment on?
When I regained consciousness, I didn't know where I was.
I felt like I was dying. There's something profoundly important
going on here. I've never seen anything like this before.
I find them compelling, and I find them believable. They
seem to pick people who are particularly strong, stable, open minded.
I'm an experiencer.
Speaker 1: I'm an experiencer, I had experiences. What has happened to
these people is what they say has happened to them,
even though I fully recognize that's not possible in the
worldview in which they and I were raised.
Speaker 3: For a long time, I was very dismissive of abductees,
which is a weird thing to not believe when I
believe UFOs are real. We don't know what happened to us,
and it.
Speaker 1: Goes beyond what we know or don't know about them. Yeah,
I think we have an even stress a surface in
all science fiction of what aliens could be like theater,
What have any blinking life? That's the show. That's the show.
Why are these alien beings abducting people?
Speaker 3: It wants to be seen. It wants us to be
aware of it.
Speaker 1: UFOs and aliens, so they maybe be us in the future.
Speaker 3: Time trial, inter dimensional watching, lurking stalking be very.
Speaker 2: Simple to eliminate us.
Speaker 3: The entire universe has some kind of intelligence to it.
Speaker 1: What can we learn through the lens of science.
Speaker 3: And all the mysteries that surrounded.
Speaker 1: Say, you don't have any reasons to see your fra you. Wow,
That's what I have to say about that. Wow, very powerful.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I know you put your heart and soul.
I've been We've hung out at your place and your
beautiful equipment that you have to work with. How many
hours would you want to guess that particular film had
Could you even clock that?
Speaker 3: Oh man, more than the others? I will tell you
that I there's something about these documentaries that are different
than the independent films that I do. What I mean
by that is there's a discovery that happens in the
editing that's separate because you go out and you shoot
these interviews, and we did sixty seven interviews five countries,
and you got your basic questions that you want to
try to answer. But when you start to put it
all together, you have to do a beginning, middle, and
an end right. But if you do that, then it
becomes very linear, and you're focusing on action beats and
you're not focusing on the spiritual journey that this phenomenon
takes one on. And the an example of that a
weird high strangeness that happened for me while I was
doing this. And I again let me just preface this
by saying, I'm not an experiencer. I don't think I've
ever seen a UFO, but there is something that's been
driving me that gets my ass up at three am
sometimes to work on this project. But the weirdest thing
is I had issues with eye lid fluttering, and my
girlfriend Ali could see it on the other side of
the room. She could see it back here and my
office is over there, and she could see me my
eyelid's fluttering every time I sat down to edit the movie.
And so it was this weird thing that I've never
experienced on any of the other scripted fiction films. So
there was some energy that was coming. And at some
point I did talk to Tivon Smith about it and
I said, look, I don't know what's going on here,
but at some point I got to get back to
doing my indie films science fiction, horror, supernatural, et cetera.
And I said, I just don't know what's going on
because I not an experience that I'm aware of. And
she said, Dean, they don't have to knock on your
door to get to you. And so that was very sobering.
And so I just basically learned to climb in the
backseat and shut the hell up and let the muses
take this project. And it took them a long time
to or maybe if I wasn't as quick on the draw,
to do it in a year. But it took a
long time gestation, trying things, breaking it down, going again.
At one point I brought in when I thought I
had everything locked, I brought in Davis Koom.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 3: Davis is a badass editor. He won the Emmy for
co writing and editing Netflix's Social Dilemma. He's got a
new out that he edited called The AI Doc, which
is finalal that's a great one.
Speaker 1: I saw that, Yes, amazing, and so.
Speaker 3: He came and he went through and helped me make
sure that it wasn't too much in the UFO stuff,
that it was supporting evidence. So it felt like I
I didn't have an agenda. I wanted it to be
a genderist and so you would that's not even a word.
But sure, let's go with it and have it be
something where the audience can go, oh my god, I
didn't know about this, and I didn't know these things,
and there'd be mic drops for people who are in
the UFO community, but also for the public at large
where they could take this in and go, oh my god,
this is what this is about, and this is why
they might be swinging by here we might have video
of these craft. They're not just swinging by to hit
in and out. They're swinging by for some operations, some
purpose that is either to help them or it's to
help us, and we get into that in the documentary
as well.
Speaker 1: Here's just a comment here for you. Great documentary. Walked
with some friends that weren't really into the subject, but
in the by the end, they're all believers that you'd
like to hear stuff like that, and it's yeah, it's
good that you can have an open mind. That's when
I very first started doing this show in twenty eleven.
I just thought I just couldn't go that way. I
was saying I was going to be a strict nuts
and bolts type of guy, because I think I know
what I saw. I know what I saw was not
something that you would see us flying at that time,
not now either, but still I just didn't think I
would just I couldn't do it. I tried. I went
to a thing that was called Experience to Speak in Maine.
I think it was in two thousand and twelve. I
still wasn't I was trying, and then I went the
next year when they had it, and I sat and
talked to Travis Walton. And I was in twenty thirteen
when I met him the first time, and we sat
just chit chatting about he let me interview him, but
also chit chatting about other things, and I'm thinking, Wow,
he's a very bright guy and nice guy, and I
just felt like he was authentic. And that's it. Took
a little while, is what I'm getting at before and
then really look at it logically, they wouldn't just be
zooming over and taking pictures. You know, you would think
there would be animals being brought in and studied and
not just people. So anyway, I think it just took
me a while to open my mind up. It's still
a little hard for me because what's difficult for me
is that I just I don't know how these people
can even function in a daily life. If that was
in my world, I just I would want to be
in a fetal position under a bunch of blankets somewhere
in a corner.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I've been to several experiences of support groups, group meetings.
In fact, I'm going to want in a week or
two again, and ause I always want to check in
and make sure that I'm representing the experiences and making
sure they're heard in the correct way and focusing on
the correct things because they're the ones that are going
through this and have been going through it, and in
some ways, I think they're the ones that are taking
it for the team, if you will. And it's really
funny because we end up talking to people like government
officials and ex military but it's kind of like asking
the generals of D Day. So what was it like
strman Normandy, I'm no wrong. I'm going to go to
the boots on the ground, troops who were there, who
are maybe wounded but survive. I want to know what
it was like for those guys. And so that's the
whole purpose of this documentary is to take these people
and say, Okay, what's going on? What is this about?
And what is it about for you? And I always
use the analogy that people go, I'd like to see
an alien. Really you want to see an alien? Okay,
let's walk through what that would be like. And I
use the analogy. And you've heard me say sorry for
if people have heard this before, So I'll make it fast.
Let's make it a comfortable situation where you're on your
deck and you're reading a book and it's in the
middle of the day, and you got your umbrella overhead
so you're not getting sunburned because the ozone isn't what
it used to be. And then you hear a noise
and you look over at the end of the deck
and you see this chimpanzee poke its head out and
it looks at you for a little bit and then
it ducks back and you're in shock, but you get up,
and you walk over and you take a look and
nothing's there around the corner. How much is that going
to jack you up for the rest of your life
where you're going to be going, I think I saw
this thing. No, no, and you're going to totally rewrite
it and try to create new grooves in your brain
that didn't exist because it's just too much to deal with. Now.
Imagine looking over and not seeing a chimpanzee, but seeing
an Nhi, a gray being as an example, and then
it ducks its head back around. It's as John Mack says,
it's an ontological shock that is earth shattering that causes
for many PTSD and I never make light of it.
I look at that, and I say, and you'll see.
Towards the end of the Dock, the main theme of
the Dock, One of the main themes is empathy for
these experiencers, because you wouldn't make fun of someone that
had been abducted and taken in a van if you will,
by a human and say, oh, really, when you were
in there where they're wearing ski masks, were they doing
this and that? But we have no problem doing that,
or have had no problem doing that in the past
and cueing the X Files music. So that's changing. And
you've got Goldie Han who came out on I think
was Jimmy Kimmel, one of the Jimmy Fallons came out
and said she was an experiencer and mentioned that she's
had interactions with them. And people forget about this, But
there was a roper report that was done in nineteen
ninety two and they asked five questions and they took
the numbers and got the answers and saw that several
of the people they interviewed, one in fifty had several
of the items, whether it was sleep paralysis that came
with a presence, feeling, the presence in the room, are
with scars, missing time, et cetera. One fifty. So if
you take that and you multiply it, that means that
three point seven million people potentially could be experiences on
this planet. So that's staggering. And I just feel like
whatever is happening, and whether you're chosen or whether it's
because of as John Max says, dual alien identity, that
this might have been something that you agreed to do
before you incarnated is unknown, But this is happening for
a reason. And it has been happening for a very
long time.
Speaker 1: One of the things I always think of is if
there's so much life out there, which we think there is,
but we don't have proof, but it just seems would
make sense that the universe would be just teeming with life.
And is this done at every stop along the way?
We can't be we just special in some type of way.
Why would they be bothering with us? If the universe
is teeming with life? Why?
Speaker 3: Yeah, why would we bother studying ants? There's a profession
that's called entomology. They study ants, So someone's going to
find it interesting. The one thing that we all share
in common. And Dave Folly and I talk about this
a lot. We're in direct agreement with this, which is
intelligent life comes with curiosity. So why wouldn't they be
curious to see where we are in our development and
not to make it about our perspective or how we
would do this, because we ultimately are going to do that.
Wouldn't we do that? If there was another species, wouldn't
we go out and check it out? And we're a
dangerous species still because we're very animalistic, and so the
way that that these beings. The nhis have conducted some
of their experiments and stuff and research and doing with
us is to immobilize us like we would do with
a bear, and to tag us, which we talk about
the implants and so that would be something that you
can see. This is an extended version of that. And
look at Travis Walton when he was on the craft right,
he wasn't They couldn't put him under through effectuating some
form of mind control, and so he got up and
he grabbed a utensil that was on a train next
to and was swinging around. They were terrified of him.
That's our natural reaction. One thing I want to I
do want to underscore is that not everyone is taken
and having experiments and the hybrid program that doesn't happen
to everyone an equal amount or more. It is this
spiritual experience, this communion, if you will, And many times
it might start out that way, meaning more operational, and
then it becomes this thing what least Streeber talks about
that that has ongoing relationships with them.
Speaker 1: Someone just corrected, do entomology is the study of insects
really not just the ants. But yeah, you know, I
was also.
Speaker 3: Talking about the entomology that not many people know about.
It's an offshoot of entomology no one's heard about. No, okay,
well no we can. I'm talking about the ultimate universe. Guys,
come on, keep up. Thank you for the correction. My
dyslexia sometimes sneaks out, and that's fun.
Speaker 1: That's fun. So yeah, I was. When I watched your
trailer just now, I was thinking when Dave Foley was
talking about how he thought about the I said, that's
exactly how I approached it. Just those words came out
of my mouth when I first started the show, and
he too, mentions in the trailer that or in your movie,
it's worth a look. And I love those clips of
John mac I just he was gone before I even
started my show. But when I look back at the
work that he did and how much he brought to this,
it should be nice if someone like him would come
along and pick up the mantle and try to move
forward with the work he did with the credentials that
he has. We have Alvi Low but as a whole
different thing. But I'm talking about someone in the psychiatry world.
It would just be so important for someone to give
more credibility to these people that are suffering. I love
the phrase that he makes that these people, I don't
I'm just paraphrasing, but these people are not delusional, They're
not crazy in any type of way, and they are
they I forget exactly what he says. You probably know
because you but it's something along those along that line.
Speaker 3: He's basically saying that these are people who are usually
above average open people who are experiencing these things. And
the toughest pill to swallow for us is that just
because it bucks convention with the reality that we deal
with on him, our usual basis to not have room
for this high strangeness when you have data to back
it up, and you have testimony and you have the
things that nailed it for me was when there's a
partner who's there in the bed next to you and
also is experiencing paralysis and sees many times the scenario
is that there's this white light that appears in the
room and then you see your spouse or your partner
levitated brought out either sometimes it's with the beans or
sometimes it's just separate through a wall or through a window,
and they're witnessing all this and they just have that
fragment of that memory, but there is a witness. It's
corroborating evidence, if you will. And so getting back to John,
Matt came at the time he needed to and he
needed to do the heavy lifting. He needed to come
out in the mid nineties and do this in order
to shake things up. He was an earthquake in the
reality that we know. And so sometimes you want the
biggest guns, if you will, hate to use weapons, guns
blowing through the gates first. It makes it easier for
everyone else. And so John did that point. Yeah, And
the thing that's said is John didn't live long enough
to see him be exonerated with the government coming out
and saying, yes, this is real. I mean, could you
imagine that today? But I feel like he did the
heavy lifting for us. And so people like myself and
other documentary filmmakers that are out there and certainly experiencers
like Karen Austen and others are keeping it, keeping the
torch alive.
Speaker 1: Who Karen is going to be supposedly on this show
within a few months, hopefully that'll happen. So here is
another question post for you here, Dean. Do you know
a screenwriter Danny alex Are you familiar with that person.
Experienced screenwriter may someone to oh just to know you
have to know who's talking about that person.
Speaker 3: Now, if I open my window right now and I
grab this mug and I throw it, I'm going to
hit I'm going to hit three screenwriters. There's a lot
of screenwriters there. I also have forty two screenplays that
I've written, and a slate of films that I'm hoping
to do when I finish these documentaries that I'm doing,
and the better sci fi related and genre related, et cetera.
But yeah, I have more than enough to keep me
busy for this lifetime. But I'm glad there's other filmmakers
out there doing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is just a comment about Terry Lovelace's credible.
Remember he was in Attorney General. I reached out to Terry.
I know that his health is not all that good,
but he does have quite an interesting story. I'm glad
you got him in your film. Yeah, good Man, that
whole situation so bizarre. I don't know. We could just
give a little bit of a teaser of Devil's Den,
do can you just give for the listener who is
unaware of.
Speaker 3: No and I wish you would bring that up, Martin. Okay,
Devil's Den is a great case. Devil's Den is again
someone in the military sound familiar, who's out there with
his buddy camping in Devil's Den, and he he wakes
up in the middle of the night and sees this
light above and before that they had seen a craft
and sees what he thinks our children playing out in
the meadow in front of them, and the person he's with,
as he calls Toby, says, those aren't children, and you
know what they did to us. And then the military
goes ahead and interviews him after he wakes up from
all that, and the military questioned the hell out of him,
but what he sees, and they try to wipe out
his memory and through him no, but also through partial memory,
because not everyone has to go under hypnosis. We should
talk about that as well. He recalls being on a craft.
Not only that, he recalls being on a craft with
military young military soldiers that are officers that are on
not officers but who knows what their ranking is, but
that are on the craft, the same craft, working in
concert with these gray beans, two sizes of the gray beans.
And it's interesting and he has his own theories on it,
and we get into that that they might not be
sentient beings. And so we bring this expert from Carnegie
Melon that's never spoken in this field before, and he's
got his take on it, and yeah, it's a fantastic case.
And when he's got a little bit of evidence that
we also show in the documentary.
Speaker 1: And that case in there. But one of the things
I thought of is how did these two sisters find
you or did you find them? How did that all
come about?
Speaker 3: So my assistant editor, Craig Jackson, who's also a music producer,
he was working on some tracks for this young female
artist and she said, hey, Craig, what's been going on
at the beginning of their first one of the sessions
that they were doing, And he said, Oh, I'm doing
this documentary about those and stuff and experiencers. And she goes, oh,
that's weird. He goes, what do you mean. When I
was young, my sister and I shared the same dream
twice and we always thought that maybe it could be affiliated,
but we don't know. We just know that we woke
up and we talked to each other and we had
share it. Identical dreams twice, and so he calls me
and he says, hey, dude, I just heard this. What
do you think of this? And I go, hey, hold On.
So I call Evonne Smith and I go, Yvonne, I
just heard this, and she says, hey, that's a flag
And I went wow, Okay, hold On went back called
Craig and said, I want to talk to her. So Skyler,
she's a musician, spoke with her and said, hey, would
you be willing to go on camera and would you
be willing to do a regression hypnosis session? And I
would want to do your sister as well, put her under.
And her sister is in Chicago. Skyler is here locally
in Los Angeles, and her sister is a business exec.
We joke that they're the mullet. She's business up front
and her younger sister's party in the back. So we
did two separate sessions, and they were forbidden to communicate
with each other, otherwise than the whole thing would have
been contaminated and you never would have seen it in
the show. And so we had certain safeguards to make
sure that happened. Anyway, they come out, and so each
of them went to the two different dreams. Skyler went
to the first dream and her sister went to the
second dream, and the overlap was insane. And so without
you know, giving too much away, it was not what
we expected. And the thing I want to talk about
hypnosis because I know that I'll see comments sometimes when
people go, oh, that's just people influencing people and some
mild form of mind control. There's two types of hypnosis.
And I was talking to Chris Ramsey about this. Chris
is done engaged in and we as well. We've talked
about the stage show hypnosis where you say to someone, hey,
forget the number four, Now count to five and I
go one, two, three, five, Is that right? And they're
able to do that and it's like with someone's clucking
like a chicken something like that, And there's a version
of that. That's not what we do. We do basically meditation.
We do a relaxation exercise where it's imagined somewhere that
you like. It makes you feel calm. Imagine walking down
into that place and so it's a relaxation technique and
then when you get there, then the only thing she
says is she says, let's go to that place that
you want to go to that time rather when you
were seven years old and you're in your bedroom in Elgin, Illinois.
Let's go there, what do you see? And then it's
up to her. If she sees the light shining a
light shine through, she doesn't say, oh, can you see
the craft? She says, oh, do you know what's causing
the light? So all the questions are neutral in order
to hear what would come from her. So it's the
person that is I hate to say the word under
but I don't know what else to say, the person
who's in that relaxed state. It's up to them. They're
the ones that are narrating this and so done properly,
this is completely a useful way to get someone to
be able to access the subconscious, not some fantasy world,
but the subconscious. And this is a technique that also
that the police use when they're sometimes wanting to clear
up things, will say would you be open to that?
And can you go back? And can you see the
license plate? So it's very benign. It's very benign. So
but anyway, what came out of just that with both sisters,
that same technique was amazing and it's the reason why
it became not another episode of the alien perspective, but
became its own, so that in concert or in connection
with looking at the classic abduction cases and what we
learned from those, that became this meaty thing that was
it needed its own documentary and then some when you.
Speaker 1: Completed the film, did you did you change any thinking
after you got through this? Do you think that we
really are being having an interaction with something we can't
explain at this point you convince that's happening? Did it
change your perspective?
Speaker 3: I always say, and this goes for UFOs as well.
I always say that I believe that UFOs UAPs, however
you want to classify them, that those are real and
that people are seeing them. I believe. I don't know,
because I haven't seen it. I hold up the same
belief system for experiencers. You cannot fake PTSD. And I
saw someone on some podcasts that you made a comment
that said, if you have a nightmare that can cause PTSD,
that's not accurate, that's not real. A nightmare isn't going
to keep you up for weeks on end, terrorize you
at night. Isn't going to be something that profoundly changes
you and your relationships with those around your loved ones,
the level of PTSD is equal. Here. Let me give
you an example. John Mack he did a test and
Karen was part of that test. And what they did
is they had two groups, one where I believe there
were Vietnam vets and the other group were experiencers, and
individually within those groups, he conducted with a belie it
was a cat scan. He scanned their brains to see
the level of PTSD with the ex military the veterans,
and then did the same thing with experiencers individually, and
it came out the same level of intensity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I saw Huh, I think I saw that,
or I've read something about that. Yes, yeah, so it
makes sense.
Speaker 3: So I believe that these are absolutely experiencing something. The
only thing that is unknown is whether this is happening
just in the physical world or is it happening in
a celestial, mental world, dimensional world. Are these crafts, Are
these beings somehow traveling in the astroalplane. We don't know
exactly what these things are. All we know is that
whether it's a mental thing or not, they are experiencing
these things because something is happening to them and it
seems like these beans have the ability in some cases
to stop time. It's the strangest thing. In fact, it
always makes sense of these crafts, the way that they
move from here to here, and then they'll make right
hand turns. I think that they're relocating themselves, that they're
moving at a set speed. It seems that they're able
to move at the speed and then they just change
space time. And if you talk to the students at
aerial school lastly, you talk to them, they'll say that
the beans when they came out, some of them said
it was like they were.
Speaker 1: Skipping, Yeah, skipping ahead of themselves.
Speaker 3: Being ahead of them. It's not literally skipping, but here
then here, And I agree with that totally.
Speaker 1: I think there's definitely a time element in some type
of manipulation. It just seems to make sense in so
many ways. And I think there's a lot of people
that share that view. So the experiences themselves do they
struggle to interpret what is happening to them, whether it's physical, psychological, spiritual,
or something else that crosses other types of boundaries. How
is there? What are what do they perceive is happening
to themselves?
Speaker 3: It's the five stages of grief that they appear to
go through. I don't know anyone that has an interaction,
especially later on, because a lot of these people are
having these experiences experiences as children, and a lot of
this is generational, but no one has said as an adult,
Like when Whitley Strieber, as an example, experiences something later
on in life in his forties, thirties and forties, it
isn't this thing that he can fold into his life
right away. It is a major psychological reality adjustment that happens.
And so first there's the disbelief, which again is five
degrees of grief. I know that didn't happen, that person
didn't die, or this thing didn't happen. And then it's
a slow realization. And so everyone's journey is different. Everyone's
journey takes its own has its own pace. And so
I really feel that that these people I will never
lump them all in because I've learned being at these
experience or support group meanings that they're not all the same.
And then each of their experiences are individual and there's
high strangeness things that are different that relate to them
that are brought out when sometimes people talk about seeing
to cease loved ones on craft. Not everyone's going to
see that, and Jacques flat believes in that. John Keel,
Greg Bishop talks about that how each of these cases
and the great Earl Gray Anderson, who the film is
dedicated to, he said, I didn't. I don't trust cases,
abduction cases, experience or cases unless it comes with some
level of strangeness that is an individual thing, that's you know,
that makes it unique, right, And so I yeah. And
in fact, when I went to my first experiences support group,
I asked him. I said, I said, how many people
of you here? If you could go back in time
and you could uncheck the alien abduction subscribe button, her
box would do that. And I said, just raise your hand.
And I waited ten seconds, fifteen seconds. Not a single
hand went out.
Speaker 1: Unreal, really unreal. That's something else.
Speaker 3: What does that say?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And so being But I'm wondering if everyone was feeling comfortable,
if someone would answer honestly, I guess in a group
like that, they would.
Speaker 3: No. There was one person who disagreed with that, and
it was the first time he had ever been there,
and he was a major in the army and he
was about six or four, big guy thirty five years old,
and he said, no offense, but I think you guys
are all effing crazy. And this was his first time
he came there, and so he was way at the
beginning of the first stage of grief. The rest of
the room was filled the people that had been there
for had these experiences for years, and so they come
to terms with it. His big ripe was that it
appeared that his kids were also becoming experiencers. As two
little daughters they had drawn a picture and showed it
to him one Saturday morning, called in the bed and said, hey,
look at this, and he says, what are these I
the kids said, Oh, these are the little skeleton people
that sometime come to visit us at night.
Speaker 1: Oh God, you just hit on something that someone I
know is listening is going to talk to me about afterwards.
She talks about the skeleton people around her bed.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And so he wanted he said, they can
do whatever they want to with me, but they don't
touch my kids. And so he was there for hardcore answers,
but he was again in the first degree of grief,
the first level.
Speaker 1: Wow, wow, awesome, Dean, thank you so much. It's always
a real pleasure. It's been such a wonderful time hanging
with you all these years and watching what you do,
and you do such a great job on your films,
and you put so much into them, and I really
appreciate it. And I know you have to move on
to other things, and it's going to be kind of
sad not to be looking forward to the next Dan
Alioto UFO movie, but hopefully there will be one down
the road someday. Never say never, right, that's right, that's right,
all right, And if you don't want to do it,
just throw your coffee cup out of the next screenwriter
next to Yeah. Always a pleasure, Martin, Yes, yes, indeed,
all right. Everyone, So make sure you check out the
show notes for both the Berkshires thing that Samantha Graves
had talked about the form that will be in the
show notes and as well as right now you can
see where to watch Dan Alioto's movie and it's called
The Experiences Call in Full Disclosure. Check that out on
Apple and Amazon. Thank you all so much. Remember to
come back here on We have marktin Antonio on Thursday
night at a PM, and we're going to be talking
about the latest file dump, release films, whatever. We're just
going to be hitting highlights, but we'll have a good
time here Thursday night at a PM. And thanks so much,
and remember to keep your eyes to this guy.