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Speaker 4: We're just necessary Dally Revoidmber Everyboy Loss. You're reading Fading Lay.
Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 5: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 5: journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 6: Good Evening. Bill Kimberlin, doctor of Psychology, invites the reader
Speaker 6: on an extensive and unbiased journey inside Ohio's death Row
Speaker 6: and Watch Me Die. Last Words from death Row. You
Speaker 6: will see how these inmates think, as Kimberland not only
Speaker 6: spends time interview them, but also each meals with them
Speaker 6: and in some cases is the last person to speak
Speaker 6: with them before they are executed. From the moment they
Speaker 6: are placed on suicide watch until the moment they are
Speaker 6: pronounced dead right in front of them, Kimberlin will walk
Speaker 6: you through the twisted and complex execution process in the
Speaker 6: state of Ohio. Watch Me Die presents an unbiased look
Speaker 6: at the realities of death Row in Ohio and America
Speaker 6: as a whole. This book is much more than an
Speaker 6: argument about the death penalty. Instead, Kimberlin exposes the harsh
Speaker 6: truth of what it's like to be on death row,
Speaker 6: counting the days until your own execution, as told to
Speaker 6: him by those who have lived it with no physical
Speaker 6: or mental restraints. Kimberland's conversations earn the trust of many
Speaker 6: high level and violent offenders. He shares with the reader.
Speaker 6: These unfiltered and honest thoughts from people staring in the
Speaker 6: face of death. Their writings, their artwork, and their own
Speaker 6: words will put the reader in the room with these
Speaker 6: dangerous killers. Nothing is off limits, and there is nothing
Speaker 6: to shield Kimberland from the same hands that have taken
Speaker 6: countless lives, leaving Kimberland himself asking will this be my
Speaker 6: last trip to death Row? In this newly revised edition
Speaker 6: of Watch Me Die, Bill Kimberland takes the reader on
Speaker 6: a more intimate journey into death Row than ever before.
Speaker 6: This edition includes where are They Now? Section, updating the
Speaker 6: reader on which inmates have faced their execution, which inmates
Speaker 6: are still counting their days, and who else has asked
Speaker 6: Kimberland to watch them die. The book they're featuring this
Speaker 6: evening is Watch Me Die. Last Words from Death Row
Speaker 6: with my special guests, journalist and author Bill Kimberland. Welcome
Speaker 6: to the program, and thank you again once again for
Speaker 6: this interview. Bill Kimberland, welcome back.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you so much. It's an honor to
Speaker 4: be back on your show. Dan. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 6: It's a thrill because, as I mentioned before, if we
Speaker 6: are looking for a unique true crime book and perspective,
Speaker 6: this is it. And we haven't well surprised. We haven't
Speaker 6: spoken to since May twenty sixteen, so it's been a
Speaker 6: long time. And as you said, there's been a lot
Speaker 6: of things in this journey in the last five years,
Speaker 6: even more so. So let's go with this new book
Speaker 6: and what's contained in it. You have this nine chapters
Speaker 6: or so, tell us give us the breakdown of what's
Speaker 6: contained in this book Watch Me Die. Last words from
Speaker 6: Death Row.
Speaker 4: Sure, so the book Watched Me Die. The original aspect
Speaker 4: of the book was to take people through Ohio's death
Speaker 4: Row and to try to explain to them the process
Speaker 4: of what an individual and inmate goes through being on
Speaker 4: death row all the way through their execution. Fast forward
Speaker 4: to now. After witnessing several executions and having five or
Speaker 4: six at least five or six more executions that I've
Speaker 4: been asked to attend, not just in Ohio but elsewhere.
Speaker 4: It kind of brings people up to speed as to
Speaker 4: where Ohio sits with the death penalty, the controversy is
Speaker 4: going on those that are facing up and coming executions
Speaker 4: and my interactions with them as well.
Speaker 6: Right, so give us the breakdown of these chapters if
Speaker 6: you could for us.
Speaker 4: So, I think the beginning of it is the prelude
Speaker 4: of to myself going into the execution chamber, and it
Speaker 4: literally walks you through what the process is all about,
Speaker 4: from the moment they prep you to the moment that
Speaker 4: you're pronounced dead, and what it feels like for me anyways,
Speaker 4: as a person going in there, watching another human being executed,
Speaker 4: their life taken and right in front of you, whom
Speaker 4: you've just spoken to, perhaps maybe thirty minutes before so.
Speaker 4: And then the book goes on to talk about different
Speaker 4: inmates and different chapters on the basic background of what
Speaker 4: brought them to death row, the murders that they had committed.
Speaker 4: Every one of them in the book have confessed to
Speaker 4: me their murders as well as some other ones. So
Speaker 4: none of these individuals that were executed or that will
Speaker 4: be executed, have ever maintained that they were innocent by
Speaker 4: any means. And then there's other chapters that go into
Speaker 4: the actual death row protocols, the processes, the methods, the
Speaker 4: fact that here in the United States, since we still
Speaker 4: have the death penalty, a lot of states are either
Speaker 4: revising their protocol or their methods. In Ohio's is one
Speaker 4: of them. Other states have abolished them altogether. Some states
Speaker 4: like California have putten the moratorium on them. So there's
Speaker 4: other champions that discuss that, and then it winds up
Speaker 4: talking about those that are facing their own demise on
Speaker 4: Ohio's execution table and or firing squad, because now that's
Speaker 4: what we're looking to implement in the state of Ohio,
Speaker 4: either lethal gas or the firing squad if in fact,
Speaker 4: we can no longer obtain the lethal drugs used to
Speaker 4: put these individuals to death.
Speaker 6: Incredible. Let's start with your first chapter and how did
Speaker 6: it all begin? Did you decide to study death row
Speaker 6: and why?
Speaker 4: You know, it's kind of a crazy story, but I
Speaker 4: was teaching at the university level, my doctorate being in psychology,
Speaker 4: so a lot of the classes that I would teach
Speaker 4: would be abnormal psychology, social psychology, things of that nature.
Speaker 4: And we always discussed a lot of the hot topic
Speaker 4: debatable issues here in this country, so gun rights, legalization
Speaker 4: of abortion, uh, legalization of drugs, and then of course
Speaker 4: capital punishment. Well, I'd been fortunate enough to travel to
Speaker 4: a lot of different countries, so I knew a lot
Speaker 4: about the drug laws. My family and I I've grown
Speaker 4: up around guns hunted all my life in you know, Canada,
Speaker 4: the US, all over uh. So I felt comfortable teaching
Speaker 4: on that. I had counseled various females that have went
Speaker 4: through the abortion process, so I felt comfortable there. But
Speaker 4: every time the discussion came up about capital punishment, I
Speaker 4: felt that I just wasn't knowledgeable enough to speak as
Speaker 4: an educator on that topic. So when I started researching it,
Speaker 4: I found out that the overwhelming majority of people out
Speaker 4: there had never been to death row, let alone witnessed
Speaker 4: an execution. So one of my really good friends is
Speaker 4: a common police call judge, and he gave me the
Speaker 4: name of the Attorney General's office number in the name
Speaker 4: of the Attorney General of Ohio at the time, so
Speaker 4: I gave them a call to see if I could,
Speaker 4: I don't know, be placed on a lottery to go
Speaker 4: see an execution or whatever. I did. That's how naive
Speaker 4: I was. And after they hung up on me and
Speaker 4: I called back, they, you know, they felt bad for
Speaker 4: me because they had never really had that question posed
Speaker 4: to them before. So they were able to explain to
Speaker 4: me that in the Ohio Revised Code, it outlines exactly
Speaker 4: who can and cannot witness an execution, so only three
Speaker 4: people are on each side, the dependent side and then
Speaker 4: on the prosecution state side. Victims are allowed to witness
Speaker 4: an execution. But they said, we'll send you the Ohio
Speaker 4: Advice Code. If you find any loopholes, we'll send you
Speaker 4: also the list of inmates scheduled Tony and good luck.
Speaker 4: So they sent me that information. I researched it. I
Speaker 4: penned a few letters to these guys, and next thing
Speaker 4: you know, I'm on death row, which I only ever
Speaker 4: intended to go one or two times, just so I
Speaker 4: could teach about it and say that I'd been there
Speaker 4: experienced at firsthand. It wasn't book knowledge only, and I
Speaker 4: would feel comfortable doing it. And lo and behold, here
Speaker 4: we are today, and I'm still doing it.
Speaker 6: You talk about the visits and the conditions under which
Speaker 6: you're able to visit these inmates, these dangerous killers on
Speaker 6: death row with as you say, nothing to lose. Maybe
Speaker 6: people are very surprised, what, as you write, what are
Speaker 6: some of the conditions in which this dangerous person and
Speaker 6: you are able to visit.
Speaker 4: So when I go and visit these individuals, and I'll
Speaker 4: use Ohio's example mainly because that's what this book is about.
Speaker 4: Other states are different, some are even more free visitation wise.
Speaker 4: But there are no handcuffs, there are no shackles. We're
Speaker 4: not divided by plexiglass, and I have to speak on the phone.
Speaker 4: We get to sit at a picnic table on death
Speaker 4: Row and we can eat and drink whatever is in
Speaker 4: the vending machines. There's microwaves there. We can heat up
Speaker 4: sandwiches or pieces or whatever, candy, whatever they want, and
Speaker 4: we can discuss freely everything and anything. Very rarely are
Speaker 4: there guards around. They'll, you know, they'll come by. They'll
Speaker 4: take pictures of us together if we so desire. As
Speaker 4: it gets closer to the execution than one of the inmates,
Speaker 4: I was with him for eight hours, just right alone
Speaker 4: there on Death Row, up and down freely, walking and
Speaker 4: talking for you know, eight hours straight. We got to
Speaker 4: order meals delivered to the prison and everything else. So
Speaker 4: it's it's not like you see on TV. They do
Speaker 4: like to present to the media and to the public
Speaker 4: watching it that it's a very safe and secure environment,
Speaker 4: but when you're there one on one, it's nothing could
Speaker 4: be further from the truth, because like I've had inmates,
Speaker 4: and I think it's outlined in the last chapter the book,
Speaker 4: one Innate in particular, he flat out told me that,
Speaker 4: you know, the guards will let anybody come into death
Speaker 4: Row to visit. We decide if you get to go
Speaker 4: home or not, because it's their house. So that's, uh,
Speaker 4: you know that rings true. It's a there's a there's
Speaker 4: a lot of respect that I give these guys and
Speaker 4: they in turn expect me, and uh so then I've
Speaker 4: been able to do it for years and years now
Speaker 4: because I've never disrespected him and I've never sold any
Speaker 4: of them out.
Speaker 6: You talk about Chris Newton, and this is a Mansfield
Speaker 6: inmate and is related to in marriage to your friend
Speaker 6: who's a prosecutor.
Speaker 4: So tell us a time, please judge now, Yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 4: He's related to Judge Roger Bennett, who through marriage just
Speaker 4: was a cousin of his. And uh, when I was
Speaker 4: going through the process of trying to figure out who
Speaker 4: I should contact on death row, He's like, you know,
Speaker 4: why don't you just rate Chris and and see what
Speaker 4: he says. And I'm like, Chris, who's Chris? And then
Speaker 4: he explained to me who he was. And he turned
Speaker 4: out to be one of the most man How do
Speaker 4: I even explain it? He was very He was not
Speaker 4: your normal person by any means that you can imagine
Speaker 4: at all. He only looked forward to his execution. He's
Speaker 4: the only person I've ever come across it couldn't wait
Speaker 4: to be executed. And he just knew he could not
Speaker 4: live in society and he hated prison. So what he
Speaker 4: did was told the guards at one time that the
Speaker 4: gangs were after him, so he needed to be put
Speaker 4: in protective custody. They said, fine, Newton, will take you
Speaker 4: to PC protective custody. He said, I'm walking down PC.
Speaker 4: They're trying to figure out who's going to be my selling.
Speaker 4: He said, I was looking for somebody a week and
Speaker 4: young that would be easy to kill. He said, so
Speaker 4: I spotted somebody, he said. I told the guard that
Speaker 4: dude and I we were bunkies before U sell me
Speaker 4: with him and the guards I find whatever. And this
Speaker 4: guy was short term. He was set to be released
Speaker 4: within the year, and he said that night he told
Speaker 4: him he's like you and I were going to have
Speaker 4: sex tonight, and the guy said, no, last I don't
Speaker 4: think so it s that's not what I do. And
Speaker 4: Newton told me that's exactly what he needed to hear.
Speaker 4: So when the guy went to sleep, he took the
Speaker 4: band out of his sweatpants, the rope, and he strangled him,
Speaker 4: which he thought strangled him to death, but he said
Speaker 4: it didn't happen that easy. And then he even asked me,
Speaker 4: have you ever strangled him by to death? You realize
Speaker 4: how hard it is. I'm like, no, I got to
Speaker 4: be honest with you. I've never strangled anyone to death,
Speaker 4: and he said, well, let me tell you it's hard.
Speaker 4: He said next saying, I know this guy's gasping, so
Speaker 4: I just started beating and when I started beating him,
Speaker 4: the blood went everywhere. When the blood started going everywhere,
Speaker 4: it just turned him on sexually. So he killed him
Speaker 4: and stripped down, masturbated all over him, and then ate
Speaker 4: his dinner. I ate a pair and waited the guards
Speaker 4: to show up the next morning, and they did. And
Speaker 4: of course you're sitting there thinking, because you have to
Speaker 4: keep a straight face, you don't want these guys thinking
Speaker 4: that you're judging them. And I'm thinking, okay, is he
Speaker 4: really telling me the truth or e bellishing? Because again
Speaker 4: I'm new with this. And the next thing I know,
Speaker 4: after his execution, he signed his case file over to me,
Speaker 4: and I have the videos from the prison of the
Speaker 4: pictures of the scene and everything, and sure enough he
Speaker 4: was not exaggerating at all.
Speaker 6: He also note a funny occurrence, I guess humorous when
Speaker 6: a caseworker comes in and admonishes him for chewing tobacco
Speaker 6: and says he could write them up for that, And
Speaker 6: you say, the look on Chris's face was priceless. What
Speaker 6: else does he do and say in response?
Speaker 4: So he did not like this particular case manager that
Speaker 4: was on death row. And what they're responsible for is
Speaker 4: take any grievances I believe, and you know, give them
Speaker 4: their visitation list and things like that. So when we're
Speaker 4: sitting in this room that because this was maybe days
Speaker 4: before his execution. He and I were sitting in there
Speaker 4: in the case major comes walking in. Of course, Chris
Speaker 4: Newton was chewing tobacco at the time, and he looks
Speaker 4: right at Newton and he says, Newton, you realize that
Speaker 4: I can write you up for that, right And he
Speaker 4: of course he interrupted us talking, which Chris did not appreciate,
Speaker 4: so he just stopped dead in his tracks and he
Speaker 4: looked right at him. He's like, yeah, and you do
Speaker 4: realize that I'm scheduled to die in a couple of
Speaker 4: days and I will kill you right now, So help
Speaker 4: me God if you don't get the hell out of here,
Speaker 4: because I have nothing to lose and everything the game,
Speaker 4: because I've hated you since day one. And the guy
Speaker 4: just looked at me and he says he's all yours
Speaker 4: and turned and left. I'm like, well, geez, thanks.
Speaker 6: So, yeah, you have people in there you call inside sources,
Speaker 6: and these are people give that are inmates that have
Speaker 6: introduced you to other inmates. You have a reputation in there,
Speaker 6: and you touched on how you deal with these people
Speaker 6: to gain their trust because they are imparting to you
Speaker 6: incredible information that they likely didn't impart even to their
Speaker 6: attorneys or anyone else, and then asking you to come
Speaker 6: and witness their execution. So tell us more about some
Speaker 6: of the inmates that you did meet and some of
Speaker 6: the things that you noticed that were characteristic of all
Speaker 6: of these people regardless.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I've been very fortunate in that aspect that
Speaker 4: because inmates they talk amongst one another, and when they
Speaker 4: hear that, they're somebody reliable, and apparently I'm one of
Speaker 4: those guys to them anyways that isn't going to go
Speaker 4: out and talk to the media, sell their artwork, sell
Speaker 4: their signatures, because there's a lot of money to be
Speaker 4: made on death rope. Then all of a sudden they
Speaker 4: consider me a stand up guy, so then they reach
Speaker 4: out to me, And then in turn, what I've realized
Speaker 4: over the years is what it takes is a lot
Speaker 4: of time and patience with these individuals. So I might
Speaker 4: interview these guys for weeks and months before I ever
Speaker 4: even get into what they actually did or how many
Speaker 4: murders they committed or anything like that, because I've found
Speaker 4: that the least amount of questions you ask, the more
Speaker 4: they'll tell you. And so the next thing, you know,
Speaker 4: they'll start confessing other murders to me. A couple of
Speaker 4: them have, anyways working with another serial killer right now
Speaker 4: who's working on some maps to locations in the state
Speaker 4: of Ohio, and I think he's convicted of three or
Speaker 4: five already right now. So they'll start divulging this information
Speaker 4: to me without me even really asking, because they know
Speaker 4: that I'm not going out there trying to sell their
Speaker 4: information or anything. So yeah, it's it's been different in
Speaker 4: that aspect as well, because I would have never expected
Speaker 4: that in my entire life that these killers, whom I
Speaker 4: kind of describe as dangerously normal because they don't have
Speaker 4: serial killer tattooed on their forehead. They don't have you know,
Speaker 4: they don't. They don't appear other than somebody like Chris Newton.
Speaker 4: They don't normally appear to be bad people, but they
Speaker 4: really really are. I mean, somebody like Samuel Little, who
Speaker 4: is suspected of killing ninety three. He started out in
Speaker 4: Ohio and he reached out to me, did not look
Speaker 4: like a bad person at all, but based on what
Speaker 4: he's done.
Speaker 6: Talk about in this book, the most evil human being
Speaker 6: you have ever sat down with in your entire life
Speaker 6: now that's that's quite the introduction. And this is williams Sap. Yeah,
Speaker 6: tell us about the first contract contact that you had
Speaker 6: with him, and just that communication.
Speaker 4: That was all so William Yeah, So William Sap again,
Speaker 4: very interesting person to talk to. Does not appear to
Speaker 4: be this vicious serial killer, mass murder and type that
Speaker 4: you would stereotypically see in the media or news outlets
Speaker 4: or anything like that. Out of the blue one day,
Speaker 4: I think it was just after witnessing an execution. The
Speaker 4: following week, he writes me this letter and it's got cartoons.
Speaker 4: He's a good artist, and so the whole envelopes painted
Speaker 4: up with cartoons. And I did is this letter from
Speaker 4: a guy that I had never heard of before introducing
Speaker 4: himself to me, saying that he didn't want to interfere
Speaker 4: with the person I had been talking to until after
Speaker 4: his execution, but however he had heard about me, and
Speaker 4: if I really wanted to talk to somebody who was
Speaker 4: a real natural born killer, meaning he thinks he was
Speaker 4: born this way, if I can handle it, come and
Speaker 4: see him. Not too many people have been able to
Speaker 4: handle him though, just so you know, And that's how
Speaker 4: he put it in the letter. So of course that
Speaker 4: intrigued me, and I went and I visited with William
Speaker 4: Sap and we have been in constant communication since, and
Speaker 4: he is probably still to this day, the most evil,
Speaker 4: vile killer that I've ever come face to face with,
Speaker 4: and I've come in contact with countless numbers.
Speaker 6: Now you talk about numbers of suspected killing, he says
Speaker 6: that people have said that he's suspected of killing seven.
Speaker 6: He says, you say, he's very matter of fact and
Speaker 6: not emotional whatsoever, But he says, look, as you have
Speaker 6: to have proof. He never forget a murder. He says,
Speaker 6: I've killed fifty people. I can prove exacty people. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you talked about souvenirs too. People keep souvenirs like watches
Speaker 6: and jewelry. He kept other souvenirs, and he had other
Speaker 6: darker interest than murder.
Speaker 4: Even yes, you know, he was very matter of fact
Speaker 4: and in fact, some of the agents that I was
Speaker 4: dealing with at the time, the FBI had devised me
Speaker 4: a couple of questions to ask him because I do
Speaker 4: have some maps to other victims of his, and he
Speaker 4: when I went in to see him the very first time,
Speaker 4: in fact, the guards couldn't believe I was coming to
Speaker 4: see him. He didn't really have very many visitors. But
Speaker 4: you know, they said, hey, you know, we hear he's
Speaker 4: good for seventy seventy five murders. What do you think.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't think anything. I had never sat
Speaker 4: down and discussed anything with him. Plus, I don't like
Speaker 4: to normally talk to the guards a whole lot because
Speaker 4: if the inmates see you talking to the guards, and
Speaker 4: that looks very suspicious, which could be very unhealthy for me.
Speaker 4: So we sat down, we were eating and drinking and
Speaker 4: talking about the weather and politics everything. So then I
Speaker 4: just threw it out there. I said, hey, I hear
Speaker 4: you're good for like seventy and again he just stopped
Speaker 4: it very flat affect, and he said, what who told
Speaker 4: you that? I said, you know, word is if you're
Speaker 4: good for like seventy murders, that's true. And he's like, no,
Speaker 4: not at all. He's like, I killed fifty people if
Speaker 4: I would have killed seventy, And where I would own
Speaker 4: up to that? He said, because anybody that's ever taken
Speaker 4: a human life, they never forget that person. And I
Speaker 4: can prove to you that I killed fifty people no more.
Speaker 4: He's like, when you kill a human being, he'll never
Speaker 4: forget their face. You'll never forget doing it. I enjoy
Speaker 4: doing it. I remember everything about him. I've kept things
Speaker 4: from them, he said. And I never really killed everybody
Speaker 4: that I raped. I said, well, what would determine whether
Speaker 4: you killed the person or not? He said, if they
Speaker 4: started praying to God, or if they told me something
Speaker 4: like you can't kill me because I have kids and
Speaker 4: I have a husband, then you're dead automatically. He said,
Speaker 4: don't ever tell me no, and don't ever pray to God.
Speaker 4: He's like, there's plenty of people I raped and I
Speaker 4: let go. I even asked him one time, if I
Speaker 4: were to bring his children he has two kids, in
Speaker 4: to see him because he has not seen them since
Speaker 4: he's been on death room, what would you say to him?
Speaker 4: And he stopped, looked me dead in the eyes. He said,
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say anything. He said, I'd probably kill them.
Speaker 4: He said why, He said, they should have never had
Speaker 4: my last name. He said, I regretted that since they won,
Speaker 4: I should have killed them to begin with. So if
Speaker 4: they ever came in here, he said, I'd probably kill him.
Speaker 4: And that's his own kids.
Speaker 6: Now, despite your disgust, you don't let on that. Do
Speaker 6: you have this disdain for these people that you don't
Speaker 6: judge them? But what was your goal in all of
Speaker 6: this correspondence with him? You talked about these maps, but
Speaker 6: what was your goal?
Speaker 4: My goal was to finally bring some closure to some
Speaker 4: of these families out there that have lost a loved one,
Speaker 4: whether it be a sister, a mother, a daughter, an aunt, cousin, whatever.
Speaker 4: He was very prone to kill prostitutes and he killed
Speaker 4: from Ohio to Florida again down that I seventy five
Speaker 4: corridor that a lot of them do. And he's like,
Speaker 4: because most people will not look for them and they
Speaker 4: don't really come across as missing persons, So he usually
Speaker 4: went in that direction. And my thought process was, Okay,
Speaker 4: let's bring some closure to some families. And he had
Speaker 4: supplied me with some maps for one in Ohio to
Speaker 4: in Florida and again I'm working with different agencies and
Speaker 4: things like that. It was determined that they felt that
Speaker 4: these were legitimate maps, that he was not lying, but
Speaker 4: based on the fact that they were prostitutes and there
Speaker 4: there just wasn't the funds budgeted for looking for individuals
Speaker 4: like this, that they just born interested in searching for them,
Speaker 4: which I found totally repulsive and I actually couldn't believe it.
Speaker 4: I've heard that from other people before that agencies would
Speaker 4: say that, and I just never gave any credibility to it.
Speaker 4: But that is the very fact that sometimes they just
Speaker 4: don't care.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you talk about also that foreclosure for the families
Speaker 6: with regards with this, but also you talked about law
Speaker 6: enforcement not being able to do anything, and you just
Speaker 6: explain why you believe that was the case, but you
Speaker 6: continue to correspond with him. It's not not correct.
Speaker 4: Yes you talk about William, Yes, yes, yes, So you
Speaker 4: know I was hoping to get more maps to different
Speaker 4: locations and he was getting to the point where he
Speaker 4: was getting frustrated and upset that I wasn't locating the bodies.
Speaker 4: That he gave me the locations too, which again tells
Speaker 4: me that he's very consistent in what he said before
Speaker 4: that you never forget. In fact, I went so far
Speaker 4: as I have him years later, instead of drawing me
Speaker 4: the maps, paint them for me because he'd likes doing artwork.
Speaker 4: And I compared the hated wins to the drawings which
Speaker 4: were years later, everything was completely consistent with the first ones,
Speaker 4: and then he refused to give me any more until
Speaker 4: these bodies were dug up and located because he just
Speaker 4: he's like, if you're not going to worry about the
Speaker 4: first three, why would you worry about the other you know,
Speaker 4: forty plus. So that was kind of disheartening. But I'm
Speaker 4: hoping that, you know, with my communication with him still
Speaker 4: to this day, at some point in time, that he'll
Speaker 4: disclose those locations to me. So at some point some
Speaker 4: families could have some closure in their lives.
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Speaker 6: to hire. In this new revised edition, you talk of
Speaker 6: other inmates, fascinating inmates that are as you say, no
Speaker 6: serial killer, no killer on death row. No two are
Speaker 6: the same, and they're individuals. They may share some characteristics,
Speaker 6: but no two are the same. But you have a
Speaker 6: section where are They Now? Inmates that you had been
Speaker 6: dealing with that were scheduled for for execution. Some of
Speaker 6: had those people had asked you to witness their death.
Speaker 6: So let's talk about a little bit about some of
Speaker 6: those people that you write about in this revised edition,
Speaker 6: and before we talk about the nitty gritty of what happened,
Speaker 6: what you are able to offer these people at the
Speaker 6: last moments of their life. Tell us about some of
Speaker 6: the people where are they now?
Speaker 4: So some of the individuals that are in that section
Speaker 4: of the book I was actually talking to and when
Speaker 4: the first edition came out and their execution dates had
Speaker 4: not been set yet. And there are also some I
Speaker 4: believe Anthony Solwell is one of them who actually died
Speaker 4: this past year in twenty twenty of cancer, and he
Speaker 4: was known as the Cleveland strangler, killed eleven women, lived
Speaker 4: with the bodies inside his house, in his backyard and everything.
Speaker 4: I was one of the first ones to ever interview him.
Speaker 4: And then of course there's a Cleveland Jackson who was
Speaker 4: implicated in drug deal gone bad. I think there was
Speaker 4: five people shot him. He and his brother shot. One
Speaker 4: of them happened to be a small baby as well.
Speaker 4: David Allen is another one whom killed an elderly couple.
Speaker 4: I believe Charles Lorraine is another one that killed I
Speaker 4: think his minister that was ministering to him in a
Speaker 4: prison stent once before when he had gotten out and
Speaker 4: he had gotten him some work. So these individuals have
Speaker 4: all asked me in writing to be there for them
Speaker 4: to witness their execution when that the dates are set.
Speaker 4: Some of them are now set. But you know, Ohio
Speaker 4: right now is on an a moratorium of executions. The
Speaker 4: governor has ceased executions until a new method can be
Speaker 4: voted on, at least while he's governor. So so yeah,
Speaker 4: I continue to see these individuals and correspond and communicate
Speaker 4: with them letters, emails, in person, everything, because they do
Speaker 4: have access to a lot of different media outlets. So
Speaker 4: they will email me sometimes a couple of times a week.
Speaker 4: They'll write, they'll place phone calls. They have video visits
Speaker 4: as well, especially because of COVID and things like that.
Speaker 4: So yeah, they sometimes they could be pretty needy. They
Speaker 4: are constantly reaching out to me. They'll send me art.
Speaker 4: I think I have over one thousand, five hundred pieces
Speaker 4: of art laying around now, all from death row some
Speaker 4: which is really good, other is horrible, whether it's made
Speaker 4: with human blood or semen or whatever, and they'll send me. So, yeah,
Speaker 4: it's kind of crazy.
Speaker 5: You have.
Speaker 6: You outline in this book too, the vast differences between
Speaker 6: Ohio's death row and the things and privileges there, or
Speaker 6: did those death row inmates as opposed to other states
Speaker 6: that you have visited. Just tell us some of the
Speaker 6: dramatic differences and what you've seen.
Speaker 4: Okay, So when I go to death row in California,
Speaker 4: which is in San Quentin, and they also have a
Speaker 4: death row where I had because I also have female
Speaker 4: inmates as well, they're in Chelchilla, California is a little
Speaker 4: bit more strict. They have a dress code that I
Speaker 4: did not realize when I went out there the first time,
Speaker 4: and I was wearing jeans, which they did not permit.
Speaker 4: So they were nice enough not to turn me away
Speaker 4: at the gate, but instead walking me over to the
Speaker 4: prison housing where they had closed there and let me
Speaker 4: pick out prison clothes I guess, and then they sent
Speaker 4: me on their way back to condemned Roe there. But
Speaker 4: once you're in California's death row, when you visit the
Speaker 4: person even though you're loud to eat and drink out
Speaker 4: of the vending machine, they lock you in a cell
Speaker 4: or a cage with that person. So it's maybe eight
Speaker 4: by eight cage sell that you're pad locked in, just
Speaker 4: the two of you with a little table and chairs,
Speaker 4: and that's how you visit there. So if anything would
Speaker 4: have happened, and there's like twenty nine or thirty of them,
Speaker 4: you know, rows of them that other visitors are in
Speaker 4: different cages at the same time. So with one or
Speaker 4: two guards walking around, something were to happen by the
Speaker 4: time they got there and tried to unlock the gate
Speaker 4: and everything, who knows what would transpire. So that one
Speaker 4: is definitely a lot different than the state of Ohio's,
Speaker 4: whereas the state of Florida. Around that right now we
Speaker 4: go in there, there might be twenty five twenty eight
Speaker 4: inmates all at once in the same room, all death row.
Speaker 4: Everybody's free to walk around, sit at tables. They have
Speaker 4: a canteen area so you can go up and you
Speaker 4: can get everything from ice cream, sandwiches to you know, burgers, cheeseburgers,
Speaker 4: pizza in it. You can warm up. They have everything,
Speaker 4: their popcorn and you can play board games, cards, You
Speaker 4: can do whatever you want. There so huge difference between
Speaker 4: the different states, like that when you're talking being locked
Speaker 4: in a cage with no movement to up walking around
Speaker 4: with twenty five inmates, all that are condemned to die.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you also talk about that. See why these people
Speaker 6: would want you to be there because there's only so
Speaker 6: many people that can be there. You say, usually clergy,
Speaker 6: a couple attorneys tell us who can be a witness
Speaker 6: and why they would want you to be there.
Speaker 4: Sure, so usually you're allowed three people on each side,
Speaker 4: so there's usually an attorney, even they they may have
Speaker 4: a team of attorneys, but only one attorney typically is
Speaker 4: allowed to witness with the clergy and whomever else they choose.
Speaker 4: Nine percent of never won a family member there to
Speaker 4: witness an execution. They just don't want to go out
Speaker 4: that way. And then on that other side, on the
Speaker 4: prosecution side, it's typically the prosecutor who prosecuted the case
Speaker 4: and any victims family members that wanted to attend. You know,
Speaker 4: two more of them, so there's three on that side.
Speaker 4: You never come into contact with them, but when I'm
Speaker 4: in the waiting area, I see them going over first.
Speaker 4: You can hear them because it's a very small The
Speaker 4: death chamber is very small, just a small partition that
Speaker 4: separates those three from the three of us, whoever it is,
Speaker 4: so you can hear them talking and everything. And to
Speaker 4: answer you quick on why and me, I think it
Speaker 4: just boils down to the fact that they they're hoping
Speaker 4: that they won't be forgotten, that I'll either write about
Speaker 4: them or I'll publish their art or anything along those
Speaker 4: lines to keep their name out there. So it's self
Speaker 4: serving on their part as well. Some of them will
Speaker 4: ask me to attend their executions so they can also
Speaker 4: learn about the process because it's not a very transparent
Speaker 4: process and they're not told a whole lot leading up
Speaker 4: to it. So they'll ask me, since I've witnessed them,
Speaker 4: you know, what's it going to be like? What do
Speaker 4: they do? Things of that nature. So you know, there's
Speaker 4: different reasons, but for the most part, they just they
Speaker 4: don't want to be forgotten.
Speaker 6: Right, you have focused where are they now? And you
Speaker 6: talk about an inmate named David Allen and there since
Speaker 6: ninety one and is supposed to be to die in
Speaker 6: twenty twenty three, and he was a painter. He had
Speaker 6: a strange request for you. What was that strange request?
Speaker 4: You know, you might have to fresh my memory. And
Speaker 4: because I get so many strange requests anymore, he's the
Speaker 4: one that will send me artwork. How do I put this?
Speaker 4: It can be here where he uses his own semen.
Speaker 4: So he will use those bodily fluids as and mix
Speaker 4: them in with the white paint that he uses. And
Speaker 4: again these are paintings that come in on canvas and everything.
Speaker 4: So some of his paintings that don't include that that
Speaker 4: bodily fluid are very good. But he'll hide those in
Speaker 4: between and the other ones around the back of those,
Speaker 4: and he sends those to me at least once a month.
Speaker 4: I usually get six or seven different paintings every month.
Speaker 4: So yeah, he's a he's a character. But he's very
Speaker 4: much uh a sexual obedient and and really uh fantasizes
Speaker 4: and focuses on anything sexual when it comes to his
Speaker 4: artwork or his letters, his communication style everything. So he's
Speaker 4: he's he's a very unique individual. When when when it
Speaker 4: comes down to that too as well, you.
Speaker 6: Say you write that he could suck the hobbyist down
Speaker 6: the rabbit hole. Can you explain that?
Speaker 4: Yeah? So he he's he's one of those individuals that
Speaker 4: thinks a lot of himself and he he he likes
Speaker 4: to grab your attention in any way possible. So when
Speaker 4: he writes, or when he talks to me, or when
Speaker 4: he paints, he wants you to know that nothing is
Speaker 4: off limits, that he has seen and done everything. His
Speaker 4: first sexual experience, I think he told me, is when
Speaker 4: he was ten, and it was with a fifty year
Speaker 4: old neighbor who introduced him to sex when he was
Speaker 4: cutting grass for her. She had the money pay him,
Speaker 4: but she offered him sex for payment. He agreed to it.
Speaker 4: Next thing you know, he just goes down this rab
Speaker 4: hole of all of his sexual adventures with men, with women,
Speaker 4: with groups and again a very very deviant sexual individual,
Speaker 4: which is what led him to commit his murderers as well.
Speaker 6: You're right about the reality of the death penalty for
Speaker 6: those because you do talk about the death penalty in
Speaker 6: here and the controversy, and you can't say either way.
Speaker 6: You have a different discussion regarding the death penalty, but
Speaker 6: in Ohio you talk about the the in reality how
Speaker 6: much time it takes for somebody to be executed. Meanwhile,
Speaker 6: the privileges that they are given as opposed to other
Speaker 6: people in other states on death row. And meanwhile, what
Speaker 6: the family has to go through, So explain please, yes.
Speaker 4: So in the state of Ohio, very rarely is somebody
Speaker 4: going to be executed in under twenty years just because
Speaker 4: of the appeals process. And what happens is the surviving
Speaker 4: members of the victim's family in their mind, they can't
Speaker 4: get closure closure until this person is dead, which I
Speaker 4: feel really bad for those individuals because they wait around
Speaker 4: and they stress over this decades. I think when I
Speaker 4: witnessed Frank spies x execution, he was on death row
Speaker 4: for twenty eight years. More often than not, the victim's
Speaker 4: family members have passed on before this ever happens and
Speaker 4: they're forced to relive it. A lot of my guys
Speaker 4: that I've dealt with want to keep appealing their cases
Speaker 4: in order to drag the family through that each and
Speaker 4: every time they revictimize them. So they get enjoyment from that.
Speaker 4: And in the meantime, they can also order you know,
Speaker 4: art materials, they can do clicklists or whatever for you know,
Speaker 4: whatever grocery stores offer. You know, they can get full
Speaker 4: quarterly packages a year. They can get you know, tennis
Speaker 4: shoes and socks and pants and things like that. So
Speaker 4: they're you know, they have tablets, they have TVs that
Speaker 4: they can order, earbuds, you name it. They have a
Speaker 4: lot of access to it. That's the reason why they
Speaker 4: email me every day and write me and send me
Speaker 4: this art and Everything's because they have access to all
Speaker 4: these materials that people on the outside typically don't think
Speaker 4: of when they when they hear about a person being
Speaker 4: put on death row. Oh, they're thinking, Okay, they're locked
Speaker 4: down twenty three hours a day, and you know they
Speaker 4: might get out an hour or a day or something.
Speaker 4: These guys are out and about more often than you realize,
Speaker 4: and they have a lot of amenities.
Speaker 6: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a
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Speaker 6: You talk about those amenities, but regardless, they're still on
Speaker 6: death row. But you say that politics is involved in
Speaker 6: this as well. You talked about the eighty eight counties
Speaker 6: in Ohio, each with an elected county prosecutor, and they're
Speaker 6: basically to have the power to who's going to face
Speaker 6: the death penalty or who will face a life imprisonment
Speaker 6: without parole. Tell us what your criticism is of the
Speaker 6: death penalty itself.
Speaker 4: So in the state of Ohio, the only person that
Speaker 4: can determine if the person that's going to be tried,
Speaker 4: if they're going to be tried under a capital murder
Speaker 4: meaning face a death company, would be the prosecutor. The
Speaker 4: judges can't determine that, the defense attorneys, nobody else. It's
Speaker 4: based on the obviously the crime itself, and then whether
Speaker 4: or not the prosecutor wants to pursue that. And oftentimes
Speaker 4: you'll see prosecutors going in that direction because and again
Speaker 4: this is my opinion and strictly an opinion. I think
Speaker 4: they would. They want to have that notch on their
Speaker 4: belt saying that they got a conviction for a death
Speaker 4: penalty case. And in reality, they don't take into consideration
Speaker 4: the victims' family members and walk them through the process
Speaker 4: of Oh, by the way, plan on spending the next
Speaker 4: couple of decades reliving reliving this as the person fights
Speaker 4: for appeals and goes in front of the clemency board
Speaker 4: and everything else where. If you were to have just
Speaker 4: locked that person away for life without parole, allow those
Speaker 4: family members to grieve eventually forget about them and not
Speaker 4: live in fear knowing that they'll never get out, and
Speaker 4: next thing you know, they have lived a better quality
Speaker 4: of life. But instead, the way the politics runs because
Speaker 4: our prosecutors are all elected officials, so they want to
Speaker 4: look tough on crime, and it's it's unfortunate and it's
Speaker 4: but it's the truth.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And then you say that, and I have to
Speaker 6: agree that the big question is it is it all
Speaker 6: worth it? And you can't say, you can't say it
Speaker 6: is worth it because of that the perception that you're
Speaker 6: going to get closure. But like you say, the family
Speaker 6: thinks it may get closure with the execution of an inmate,
Speaker 6: but it's hard to get closure if it's all those
Speaker 6: appeals go through those processes and what and and we
Speaker 6: didn't even talk about what the inmates are able to do.
Speaker 6: There are there are inmates that that further exacerbate the
Speaker 6: situation by doing things at those appeals or doing something
Speaker 6: in public or saying something through attorney. So it's the
Speaker 6: least there's there's so much that could happen waiting for
Speaker 6: that final resolution, which would be the death penalty to
Speaker 6: be carry doubt correct.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And people don't really stop and think about that
Speaker 4: part of the process because, you know, usually when they
Speaker 4: see it on the media and the news or whatever,
Speaker 4: it's it's sensationalized on how horrific the crimes were and
Speaker 4: everything and and and I'll be honest, they are they're horrible,
Speaker 4: horrible crimes, yes, but they just don't take into consideration
Speaker 4: how the families are revictimized over and over and over
Speaker 4: and how much these killers enjoy revictimizing them over and
Speaker 4: over and over while they're on death row. And it's
Speaker 4: it's it's really sad because I've I've known people personally
Speaker 4: and I've been to sentences where an inmate from my
Speaker 4: hometown was sentenced to die, and you know, I could
Speaker 4: see the grief in the and the frustration on both
Speaker 4: sides because I happen to know both the victims family
Speaker 4: and the defender family, which put me in an awkward situation.
Speaker 4: And I've refused to speak to him on death row
Speaker 4: just because of that. But I look now and I
Speaker 4: see that, you know, he's still thriving on death row
Speaker 4: and the majority of that family has already passed away.
Speaker 6: You talk about the last inmate that you witnessed their execution,
Speaker 6: Fred Trish, Yes, and you talk about the if this
Speaker 6: is the person, Yes, this is Fred, tell us about
Speaker 6: his crimes and and then tell us about this dramatic
Speaker 6: moment at his execution.
Speaker 4: So Fred was Fred was uh an evil person, white supremacist,
Speaker 4: you know, the typical bully looking kind of guy. But
Speaker 4: he was very, very nice to me. And three days
Speaker 4: before his execution, NY backed up. So he was sent
Speaker 4: to death row because he had shot and killed a
Speaker 4: store clerk and then he had tried to kill a
Speaker 4: couple of law enforcement officers when he was on the run.
Speaker 4: And he explained to me that, you know, he wasn't
Speaker 4: this serial killer. He didn't always go out to kill people,
Speaker 4: but he did like to rob places, and a lot
Speaker 4: of times what he would do is if it was
Speaker 4: a female working, he would strip them down after he
Speaker 4: would rob them, and he would unscrew a light bulb
Speaker 4: and he would insert it into them and then kick
Speaker 4: it so it would explode inside of him, which was
Speaker 4: just crazy and insane to me. Yes, and he didn't
Speaker 4: think anything of it. So then we're having a last meal,
Speaker 4: the one that delivered to the prison. You know, I
Speaker 4: think we ordered like eighty dollars worth of Italian food.
Speaker 4: It was delivered walking up and down like christ Kimberlyn.
Speaker 4: They're really going to kill me this time in three days,
Speaker 4: aren't they. I'm like, yeah, you know, I believe this
Speaker 4: is going to happen, Fred, And he's like, well, I
Speaker 4: was thinking, you know, if if I killed another person
Speaker 4: like right now, they can't kill me, right, They have
Speaker 4: to try me, so they have to give me a
Speaker 4: stay and then go through a trial that will buy
Speaker 4: me a lot of years, right. And I'm looking around.
Speaker 4: There's no guards, there's no nobody, just me and him
Speaker 4: on death row alone, and I'm like, man, what is
Speaker 4: this kind of getting that, so I quick thought of something,
Speaker 4: you know where and how. I have no idea, but
Speaker 4: I said, listen, they're gonna they're still gonna put you
Speaker 4: to death. They're gonna try and obstend you. You're gonna
Speaker 4: be found guilty. It's gonna bring more embarrassment to your family.
Speaker 4: So you know, skip that out of your mind. He's like, wow, thanks, Kimberlin,
Speaker 4: that I knew I had you here for a reason.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm sitting there thinking, you know what that
Speaker 4: reason is, But I'm just glad I came up with that. So, yeah,
Speaker 4: he was different.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's incredible to you the information you got him
Speaker 6: to tell you. And so there's no name. He talks
Speaker 6: about his mother smuggling money with a condom in her genitals,
Speaker 6: and he rejoined to him for sixteen years of doing
Speaker 6: crack in prison. And then and then you talk about
Speaker 6: like again, you you write in this book that just
Speaker 6: when you might think that there is some redeeming quality
Speaker 6: to some of these people, then they surprise you and
Speaker 6: show you their true psychopathic nature. He's us, He's ready
Speaker 6: for the Some of the witnesses, which are victims, family members,
Speaker 6: people that were or survivors. What does he do? What
Speaker 6: does he display to them?
Speaker 4: So Frank's so you're talking to Frank Spiedec. He was
Speaker 4: he was the one who wanted to be the next
Speaker 4: Adolf Hitler. So he was the same. Yes, So he
Speaker 4: was the same stature, height wise, he had the same
Speaker 4: mustache during his trial and everything as as Adolf Hiller.
Speaker 4: He wanted to be the the leader of you know,
Speaker 4: the Aryan Brotherhood and everything else. So he only liked
Speaker 4: white Anglo Saxon Protestants. He did not like gays, lesbians, black,
Speaker 4: you know, Jewish, anybody else. So fast forward too and
Speaker 4: he and he has shot I think five people at
Speaker 4: the Cleveland State University. Fast forward twenty eight years later,
Speaker 4: come time for his execution. At this time, he's already
Speaker 4: undergone a complete transformation. He now goes by Francis Anne.
Speaker 4: He has a African American minister in prison, he wants
Speaker 4: to have gender reassignment surgery. He comes out as being
Speaker 4: totally gay, all of this, and I'm thinking, how does
Speaker 4: a person goes through this transformation, you know, where you
Speaker 4: hate every single thing he stood for now, so I
Speaker 4: visit him, I go to him at his in the
Speaker 4: death cell, which is located right next to the death chamber,
Speaker 4: and he appeared to be very remorse at that time.
Speaker 4: He was very soft spoken, he was very polite, thanked
Speaker 4: me for coming, you know, apologize because it was a
Speaker 4: four hour drive and I had such a long drive
Speaker 4: back home. I mean, just a complete gentleman at that time.
Speaker 4: And I asked him if he was remorseful, and he
Speaker 4: said he was, and things like that. The guard taps
Speaker 4: him on the shoulder, tells me it's time to go.
Speaker 4: So I had to go around the other side and
Speaker 4: take my spot in the execution chamber and they bring
Speaker 4: him out. You know, they strapped him to the table,
Speaker 4: they do the ivs and everything like that, and then
Speaker 4: of course you're allowed the last statement to make. They
Speaker 4: asked him if he had a final statement, and he
Speaker 4: had this all written out. He said sure, So the
Speaker 4: warden held the microphone up to him and the next
Speaker 4: thing you know, he's reciting all of this stuff in German,
Speaker 4: which again shows you that he had no remorse whatsoever,
Speaker 4: because at the time he thought he wanted to be
Speaker 4: Adolf Hiller. So then the victim's family and some of
Speaker 4: the victims that survived the shooting. It was just it
Speaker 4: was just horrible because they were wanting to go through
Speaker 4: the glass and put him to death themselves. You know,
Speaker 4: it just sparked so much rage. Twenty eight years later, Yeah, incredible.
Speaker 6: You write in this book, well, you post the question
Speaker 6: to yourself, what has death row done to you? What
Speaker 6: is this research done for you? What has this experience
Speaker 6: done to you?
Speaker 4: It's you know, it's opened my eyes a great deal
Speaker 4: in the sense that you know, speaking from speaking two
Speaker 4: different inmates, female and male, federal and state. I had
Speaker 4: the only female Federal death row inmate who was just
Speaker 4: executed this year, Lisa Montgomery. I was supposed to attend
Speaker 4: that one, but due to COVID I couldn't. It's gotten
Speaker 4: me to learn a lot about the human mind, the
Speaker 4: criminal thinking that they do. And at the same time
Speaker 4: it's really desensitized me in the fact that I have
Speaker 4: dealt with so many convicted murderers that have killed so
Speaker 4: many innocent people. The numbers countless, you know, hundreds, if
Speaker 4: not thousands of innocent lives from just the people that
Speaker 4: I've dealt with over the years, that when a new
Speaker 4: inmate writes me from state or Federal death Row The
Speaker 4: first thing I think of is, Okay, how many people
Speaker 4: did this guy kill or does this girl kill? And
Speaker 4: if it's like two or three, then I think to myself,
Speaker 4: why do I want to waste my time? And I
Speaker 4: should never think that way, because a human life is
Speaker 4: so valuable no matter what, and here I am desensitized
Speaker 4: to the number of victims. So that's a horrible thing
Speaker 4: that I have to live with that I have to
Speaker 4: constantly remind myself and work on as well. That's why
Speaker 4: it kind of bothers me when I see people wanting
Speaker 4: to become pen pals with you know, death row inmates,
Speaker 4: or want to you know, get to know them more,
Speaker 4: and I don't think they realize what it does to
Speaker 4: you and to be able to expose your family to this,
Speaker 4: you know, my whole house is nothing but death sometimes
Speaker 4: because of the male that sits around that I don't
Speaker 4: open right away because I have to step back from it,
Speaker 4: you know, or the artwork and things like that. So
Speaker 4: it's it's a daunting task, but one that I'm not
Speaker 4: ready to give up on yet because I do think
Speaker 4: that there's a lot more to learn out there, especially
Speaker 4: when it comes to hopefully solving some cold cases, locating
Speaker 4: some bodies and bring in some closure to families out
Speaker 4: there that you know definitely deserve it.
Speaker 6: Where does your research now? Where do you go from here?
Speaker 6: Where does it take you?
Speaker 4: So now all over the country, different death rows, different
Speaker 4: executions that I'll be attending, different methods, I guess, and
Speaker 4: have people that I confessed as well, dealing with some
Speaker 4: of the worst of the worst. I've been working on
Speaker 4: another book called Dinner with the Devil, which is I've
Speaker 4: taken five or six worst of the worst inmates that
Speaker 4: have killed you know, countless people. I've sat down with them,
Speaker 4: I've had dinner with them and talked to them face
Speaker 4: to face on what they've done, wives they've done it,
Speaker 4: and I'm hoping to incorporate all of that, as well
Speaker 4: as their writings and art and things of that nature
Speaker 4: into the books so people can see not through the
Speaker 4: media's eyes, but firsthand, what these individuals are really like,
Speaker 4: what they hide behind, what they try to come across
Speaker 4: as and hopefully opening people's eyes up to what real
Speaker 4: serial killers and mass murders are really like.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, I want to thank you so much Bill Kimberlin
Speaker 6: for coming on and talking about this revised new edition
Speaker 6: of Watch Me Die, Last Words from Death Row. I
Speaker 6: know that this was supposed to have a release this month,
Speaker 6: but now it's been pushed to October nineteenth, and this
Speaker 6: is a Wild Blue Press release. For people that might
Speaker 6: want to find out more about this, Can you tell
Speaker 6: us where they might look?
Speaker 4: I believe you can go right to Wild Blue Press
Speaker 4: their website dot com, and I believe they have a
Speaker 4: link up there. People can pre order it as well.
Speaker 4: There are some last minute edits that we had to
Speaker 4: do some changes around here and there, so that kind
Speaker 4: of pushed it back, but it is closer to Halloween,
Speaker 4: so that could be very well high to Yeah, and
Speaker 4: then I'm still currently working on the second one through
Speaker 4: Wild Blue Press as well.
Speaker 6: Yeah, sounds great. We're looking forward to that. Thank you
Speaker 6: so much for coming on and talking about Watch Me Die,
Speaker 6: Last Words from Death Row. It's been fascinating and this
Speaker 6: is a credible, fascinating and very important book. I want
Speaker 6: to thank you so much, Bill for coming on and
Speaker 6: talking about it.
Speaker 4: It's been an honor. I appreciate it, and thank you
Speaker 4: so much.
Speaker 6: It's been a great pleasure. You have a great night.
Speaker 6: Good night you too.