Speaker 1: Two braces in a week. What is going on here?
And that being said, the high right now is higher
than it was then.
Speaker 2: Hey, this is Remco. Thanks for clicking on the video.
This is my brand new podcast called Face the Ace,
in which I talked to the most interesting people in
poker and go a little deeper into the topics you
most care about. Enjoy all right, this is Remco. This
is faced as I'm joined by Greg Mueller, arguably one
of the biggest aces of poker right now, making the
final table of the WSP main event. I feel as though, Greg,
you and I go so far back that to me,
it's almost like an old friend making the final table.
It's so glad. This is so good to see you
make the final table. And the first thing I want
to just start off with, what was the experience like
in the days after making the final table? What sort
of came at you? What was the experience like? And
were you able to perhaps unwind at all at any point?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Great question. It's been a world And then the
best thing I ever did was to get my ass
on a flight and come home. As much as there's
still been a lot of you know, media and incoming
support and love and all that I've been able to
sleep in my own bed. I have such a healthy
team of supporters, Like, like I said the first thing,
I said, my trainer, she's been cooking me the healthy meals,
training me at least once a day, sometimes twice a day,
having support of friends that are training with me kind
of to encourage me, and and just being in my
bed and eating healthy and sleeping and just kind of
regrouping before the final table has been it's been amazing.
And yeah, because you don't realize how sleep deprived you
are for eight days and how poorly you're eating, and
how a lack of vitamin D and a lack of exercise,
and you know, it's not not just so much on
the looks at all. Actually, it's just how you feel inside.
Like I haven't had one toms since I've been home,
and I was crushing them before, you know, and so
so yeah, it's it's been amazing, But I also know
there's I have a lot of work to do.
Speaker 2: So it's so crazy to see the contrast between sort
of the the Greg Mueller before the main event, I
read your story with Lance Bradley. You and I spoke
multiple times during the main event, so so the Greg
Muller before the main, during the main and now sort
of in this in between phase. And I'm sure there
will be another version of yourself uncovered once this whole
main event story completes in a little over a week.
But allow me to go back to before the WSOP,
because right now you're living in this state of preparation,
you're living in the state of focus, You're paying this
to your diet, you're exercising a lot. I'll just ask
you straight up, why weren't you doing those things before
the WSLP.
Speaker 1: Well, I actually am very active in exercise a lot.
I tend to be an all or nothing guy at times,
and even though I'm training hard, I'm eating good, I'm
doing the right things, and I feel a gazillion times better.
The bottom line is I still have a deeper target
to hit as far as how I like my physical
fitness to be. I have very high standards, and sometimes
when I realize, oh, it's already April, I'm never going
to get to my ultimate goal by May twenty fifth,
when I have to leave, Eh, I'll deal with it
when I get home kind of and versus thinking, well,
a month of going hard and dropping seven LB's and
feeling better will be better than not, right, I tend
to say, well, if I can't get to my ex
weight anyways, no matter what. When I'm at home, I'm
very active. I'm always on the ice, I'm walking the
golf course, I'm training a few times a week. It's
my diet. Let's say I never diet, but I'm saying
it's what my food intake makes all the difference, you know,
if I'm crushing bags of chips while I'm watching sports
or if I'm not. And you know that's I'm always
very very active at home, not so much in Vegas.
And so when you ask me, I guess the question
is why not? Before I was very active, but I
knew that the tunnel was too far to get to
an ultimate goal. That I was like, Okay, I'll worry
about that when I get home for the summer. And
in the beginning of the World Series, first two weeks,
I was at the gym every day. The next two weeks,
I went for one and a half to two hour
walks every morning. It just started. As the time moved on,
and you know, you kind of have that I'll start Monday,
I'll start at the end of the month. I'll start
when I get home kind of attitude. And well, this
time it was a little more urgency with being home
for two and a half weeks before the final table.
Speaker 2: So with that athlete blood that's running through your veins
and your history playing hockey at a high level, is
there also some some sort of switch that gets flipped
once that moment's moment arrives because I knew that's the
first thing you said, like you got I'm gonna go home,
I'm going to lose some weight, I'm gonna get locked in.
Is that sort of a sort of a sort of
mode that you possess, that you can sort of reach
back to from the past.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. It's like muscle memory a little bit,
I would say, And I'm very fortunate that I did
play professional hockey and have that ability to kind of say, okay,
that's it. Three weeks still training camp. I have to go,
I have to go balls to the wall, whereas a
lot of people they don't really know how to do that,
and so for me, it's just easy. I just kept
the junk food cabinet, which is quite the legendary cabinet
clear of chips and chocolates and sours, and just made
it a point to get eight hours a night and exercise,
eat clean, and just you know, it's not just the appearance,
it's how I feel. And right now I feel relaxed,
I feel energized, and you just feel so much better.
And yes, I guess the answer to your question is,
I'm very fortunate that I have that ability to kind
of on a die make that adjustment.
Speaker 2: The narrative of your main event run is sort of
interesting because there was a few things that could have
gone differently and you wouldn't even have played the main event.
You and Sean my Cannon, your close friend you know
we're talking about or you. I guess you were saying,
I don't even want to be here, and you didn't
have the drive and the motivation. Take us through how
that moment was, how you experience that, and then how
things started the change as you went deeper into the main.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not that I was not going to
play the main because I play it every year. It's
just that it's something I've been battling with for a while.
You know, when you get to the I don't want
to say, the top of the food chain. But when
you've had some successes, you kind of I did, I
could speak for myself. Lost the drive to compete and
and and be involved in the in the poker as
much like I just lost the zest. I don't know
if it's I'm getting older and realizing that times of
the essence and I don't want to sit at the
poker table my whole life anymore, or what it is.
But I just kind of found myself going through the motions.
And you know, like I said, it was probably about
a week before the main Bucky and I had gotten
into it, and and you know, it got a little
bit testing, not in a way like him and I
always have love for each other, but in a way
where he was giving me some tough love and I
was actually telling him, I'm okay, i'll tell you what.
I'll side bet me versus this guy against you. And
he goes, oh, I can find you endless action for that.
I said, no, I don't want endless action. I want
you to crossbook me versus him. You think I can't
play anymore, whatever I win, you pay me out of
your pocket, and whatever he wins, I'll pay you out
of my pocket. And he said, I don't not have
faith and you'll side bet me and you versus anybody,
but it just seems like you're in the moment drawn dead.
And I said, okay, so then me versus this particular
guy relevant who it is. I just randomly pulled up
a good no limit player and said me versus him,
but me against you and and he said that's nonsense.
And I said, well, no, we'll go up to two
hundred thousand max pains so we don't, you know, really
hurt each other. And and and after the test, astrone
or the ego kind of calmed down a bit, you know.
I went went and played night golf at Shadow Creek
and had a few cocktails, and then the next night
had some more cocktails. And it was, you know, two
three days before the main. Then I slept all day,
did a lot of thinking and said, okay, you know what,
he's right, I am going completely through the motions. It's
tough to see for a guy that loves and cares
for you. And okay, I told him I'm going to
give it my own I told him before it started,
and I mean more to myself, but also verbalized it. Okay,
I'm going to give it my own in this main event,
and if I lose or bluff it off or whatever,
that's just part of poker. But I'm not going to
do it because I don't want to be here or
because I'd rather do something else. And he said, right on,
that's the fight that I want to see. And my
other good buddy said to me after day one, I had,
you know, one hundred thousand. After day one, you start
with sixty. And he said, tomorrow is going to be
the toughest day for you. If you get by tomorrow,
I think you're going to make a deep run. My buddy, Triple,
I said, And I was like, why do you say that?
And he says, because day two is still so early.
It's still a big grind day. It's grinding hasn't been
in your nature for a while. But if you can
get to through that day without it being serious yet,
you're going to make it run. And so I grinded
through that day and had one hundred and seventy five,
which again slightly above averager, you know, right around there.
And then and then he said to me again the
same bat, Triple I said, if you can get through
day four because it's still in the money, but sort
of early I think you're going to make it run.
And I and once we got to day five, people said, oh,
this is the day, you know, and I said, no,
we're going We're going deeper. And I remember seeing you
on day four, I think right before the money bubble.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was on the bubble, on the bubble.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was on the bubble, and yeah, I knew
I was. I don't know, it was really weird. I
knew I would win the coin flip. I knew my
eighty twenty would hold up with the jacks against the nines.
And I just, I don't know, It's one of those things, right,
I just I felt kind of so weird.
Speaker 2: It was cool to see because the energy I saw
from you on the bubble when we spoke, that energy
was sort of the classic FBT energy. You know, you're
always high spirits, you're always full of positivity. So when
you said that to me in the moment, I was like, oh,
I'm kind of surprised to hear that. You know, you
had to go through a few things to find sort
of the zest again and the fire to go make
that run and obviously you know you did, and now
we're here, which is awesome, But I want to sort
of hear, like, what is it truly like for someone
who's been in this game for so long. You've had
so much success, You've won multiple bracelets, you've got millions
of dollars on the old hend and mob, what is
it really like to finally experience a Day seven and
a Day eight in the main Because every single year
that you come to Vegas, you see a group of characters,
some you might know, most you might not have that experience,
and you hear them say how amazing it is. You
hear them talk about how crazy it is to make
your main event final table, but then you were in
it this year. Described that to me, Well.
Speaker 1: It's it's something that's like every poker player buys in
wanting to win the meme, but it's almost so unrealistic
that whenever you bust, it hurts. Whenever you bust the
main event, it's like the toughest day of the year
for a poker player, let's say, right, because you find
yourself just like, ah, I'm out, you know, but you
you almost expect when is it going to happen? Because
nobody makes the final table, right, Like it's it's just
it's so even if you're good or you're bad or
you're lucky, at some point they get you. And so
it's almost it's it's it's almost unrealistic, right and until
it is realistic, and all of a sudden, oh my god.
Like I have average stack with you know, five hundred left,
slight years away, but all of a sudden, there's one
hundred left, and then there's sick left, and then there's
twenty one left. And you know, I will say Day eight,
heading into DA eight, I was having my doubts a
little bit. I was nineteenth out of twenty one in chips,
and I remember Bucky going, dude, oh, what a spot
you're in. I'm going, what a spot? What do you mean?
He goes, you're you're twenty one people left in the main?
I go, yeah, a look at my stack. He goes, dude,
you got a heaps of chips? What do you mean?
And I'm like, do you really believe that? He goes,
Oh my god, you know, And that was that was
kind of the first day where I thought I was
short with my you know, twenty blinds or whatever. I
did was that I had and and you know, his
constant pounding it into my head that this is not
level five of a tournament with twenty blinds, This is
not a small buy in, this is the main twenty
blinds is heaps of chips, and he just kept drilling
it into my head until all of a sudden, Oh
my god, we're down to like twelve here, what is
going on? And you know, and all of a sudden, wow,
you know, there it is, and it's yeah, it's uh.
I can't say to start the tournament, that was my goal.
My goal was just to play well. And because it's
who makes the final table, you know, so yeah, it
was no expectation other than for myself to give it
my all kind of thing.
Speaker 2: And then you've played quite a few just insane equity
spots in that final lead up to get to the
final nine. You know that you got to win the flips,
you got to you got to have your aces hold
up versus kings, and then all of a sudden, you
know you're there. And and for the people watching, you know,
not to go through the whole final table, but you
got thirty two bigs coming into the final table. Uh,
Lucas Jumalan has a monster ship lead, which also means
that you know, in a way, the fight for who
gets the play heads up against him is wide open,
just to you know, throw out a scenario and you
know you're right in the fight, which is which is
of course great to see, much better than coming into
the final table with like eleven bigs. So how do
you look at the situation at hand, how do you
look at the challenge of this final table.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, it's to go back on Day eight.
I mean I was in very fortunate. I was in
some very good spots and day you know, on the
right side of a couple of coolers and won that
key flip. I do have to say heading into day eight,
I was only all in for my tournament life before
day eight. One time I had two kings and my
opponent had Ace Queen. I got lucky on some hands
along the way, but I was never all in. So
heading into day the only time I was ever all
in was I had two kings against Ace Queen and Health.
And then on day eight, like you said, I found
myself into all these kinds of spots because the game
changes a little bit, you know, along the way, you're
one hundred big blind's deep, two hundred big blinds deep.
You know, every hand isn't as crucial. You can play
post flop, you can check raise on the turns. There's
there's a lot more river bluffing. There's a lot more
that you can kind of do. Whereas now it's such
a range has become so tight and and the stacks
have become so much smaller that there's a lot more
pre flop action which dictates things right and so so yeah,
and then on day eight, I mean, I blessed to be,
like I said, on the right side of two coolers
if you may, and to win a race, and you
know those are that has to happen in this event.
I've always said, you have to play really good, you
have to be lucky, and you can't be unlucky, which
is even the most of it, you know what I mean.
Like it's it's one thing to put it in with
aces versus Kingsby. You can't afford for him to hit
the king right. And so now coming into the main
the final table again, yeah, the early perception and odds
are Jumelin versus who and he's a great player, a
really nice kid. I really like him. His rail's fun.
I always saw it. How would be epic if it
was my hockey rail versus his rail, loud and fun
and in good spirits, the young versus the old. You know,
it would be an amazing heads up du like if
I could, you know, draw it up, that would be
that would be what I would envision, you know. But
the thing that I've learned is that nobody's out, nobody's
a guarantee, and chips move and it might be two
people that are predicted and it might not be And
I can't really have a I can have a game
plan for now my stack nine handed, but when things change,
when chips move, when people bust, when position changes, so
does the strategy. And so you know, I've heard people saying,
I think Kneeler's going to do this or he's going
to do that. You can really it's cliche, but you
can really only go hand by hand like you really can.
Speaker 2: So what we have heard in the past, and with
November nine this was a bit more relevant because there
was so much time to prepare, so you could really,
you know, put hundreds of hours into studying the specific scenarios.
But there's always something to be said for you know,
playing a few simulation final tables. You know, you play
your stacks. You got aid buddies that might play the
other stacks. Have you done anything like that to prepare?
And then you know, I know you're good friends with
with Sean Buchanan, and this guy also knows what's up
when it comes to tournament play. What has the poker
prep been.
Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, no, I'll tell you we haven't done that.
I haven't. A couple buddies suggest that, hey, if you
need eight gummies so to say, that are or stand
ins you know, to I'll be gags and I'll be
Jumalan and like that, and and and I don't think
that's a realistic scenario at all. So I didn't do that.
I don't really want to deep dive too much into
the prep that I'm doing for the tournament, but I
think it's most the most prep I can say that
I'm doing. You know, obviously I'm I'm I'm doing something,
But for the most part, I think it's just to
keep the body and the mind and the mental and
physical aspect sharp. I think that's the most important thing
for me.
Speaker 2: The game has changed so much throughout your career in poker,
and when you were first coming onto the scene, there
was still a lot to the fact that if you
were just talking to the right people, you could gain
a lot from that and get ahead the field. Well, nowadays,
you know, the kids, as we like to call them,
they are just studying with solvers. They're they're basically figuring
out and and almost like turning some of these things
into like a math test, you know, memorizing how to
do certain things, how to play certain ways. I know
that you're also someone who is a really good at
reading body language, understanding you know, the sort of the
what the air in the room smells like. But how
do you marry it to how do you find a
common middle ground? And this is not even specifically a
question about the final table prep, but just you as
a player in the current dair landscape.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the game it's it's like you said,
it's not necessarily in this spot, but I often find
myself at a table with eight robots and and it's Jesus,
game has changed a lot, you know. And and I
know this because I know people through people that they
study eight hours a day. I don't this last two
weeks a bit different. But ten and a half months
and I'm not in Vegas. I don't look or study
at a single poker hand. You know, I am or
was as far gto removed as it gets, and just
always got by with my instincts and my ability to
you know, with deception in a hand and tell the
story of my hand, and you know, versus the solvers
that that you know, I'll go into the tank. I'm
in the cuta off, Jesus, is this a good spot
to go? All in? Does he fold a lot? Whereas
they just okay, I have twelve bigs, it says Queen
Ate suited and above as a jam. They it's it's really,
it's really just easy flow. Whereas for me, I do
more of the human element. And now, obviously I'd be
foolish to say if I didn't learn a little bit
along the way and realize that all these sayings of
ICM and solvers and stuff. You know, I've realized along
the way how important they are and what they mean.
You have to because yeah, the game has it's it's
quite insane, how like you said, from ten to fifteen
years ago, how it's changed and That's the beautiful thing
about the main event is that not everyone's a solver
or a robot. Yet you know, everybody's better. Like the
real weak players from years ago are now let's say
they were D or eer F players, they're now C
plus c B plus players. The days of just somebody doesn't,
you know, jamming all in with middle pair top kicker
unless he's trying to bluff, It just doesn't happen anymore.
You know, everybody's everybody's read and studied to a degree.
But how drastically the game has changed is I mean,
it's insane, it really is.
Speaker 2: The longevity of your career to me, tells me one
very specific thing is that you have a really strong
talent for the game and a strong talent for reading
people because especially when you got into the game, the
tools weren't available and you were having success as well.
Allow yourself to go back in time to when you
first played WSOP or when you first, maybe back in Canada,
started playing in games where you figured out that hey,
I am the best player or I am one of
the guys who can make money at this. When was
that and what was that realization like that you were
trying to figure you were figuring things out other people weren't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was a human solver without realizing what I've
solved kind of, you know. And and when Nolan was
first made its comeback from limit, it was amazing, you know,
the amount of pressure I could put on. I'd tell
a buddy that was sitting behind me, I'm not even
going to look at this hand. You can look, but
I already know how with my sizing and how much
pressure to put on where they're just going to fold.
I don't need to look at my hand for an hour.
And I can just win pots in cash games by
putting pressure on, you know. And obviously have to polish
the way you do it. You can't just you know.
But yeah, I always I thought that through my experience,
my ability to read people, my ability to make people
think I'm on tilt when I'm not, make them think
I'm playing tight when I'm not. You know, the kind
of what does he think of my game? I'm going
to counteract whatever it is. So if he thinks I'm
really tight, while I'm gonna rob him. And if he
thinks I'm really loose, I'm gonna wait for the hand
and over bet it and get him to make a
frustration call, you know. I mean there were so many
times when you know, I play the two five games
and I'd be in every hand so it looked like
but when I put the money in, you know, he'd
be like, I'm calling nobody else but you I'm calling.
And he'd put in like twenty five hundred big lines
with Jack's pre flop and I had the ass, and
he'd be like, man, this one time, you have it
because I gave the image of a maniac even though
I wasn't right. And these were the things that you
you could hone your skills in the live games, and
people couldn't get that experience without putting in the hours. Now,
unfortunately or over the past you know years, somebody can
never have played one minute of live poker. But he's,
you know, paying for coaching from all these coaching wizards
and takes the tools and sits at home and plays
twenty seven tables at once, and all of a sudden
he makes his first cash or a tournament entry. And
this guy's more polished than me because of all the
help that he's had along the way, right, And that's
kind of where it's like anything right now that's going
on with the modern technology and the AI. It's racing.
It's racing, right, and if you don't kind of keep up,
you're going to be lost along the way. Right.
Speaker 2: So, when your hockey career was sort of ending, and
then when I look at your hand and when you
started cashing tournaments, there's quite a gap between those years.
Was there a moment in time of like figuring out
what do I want to do next? Were you already
playing cards back in the hockey days, thinking of, like
this could be something I can do in the future.
How did you How did you go through life in
that sort of in between.
Speaker 1: Well, I quit hockey prematurely. My mom passed of cancer
in nineteen ninety nine, and I kind of lost the
passion and the drive to train every day and go away,
and so I kind of just suddenly retired. I could
have played easily, like I was nowhere near the end
of my career from a skill or physical standpoint, I
just you know, lost the was like okay, and I
loved poker, and yes, we played on the back of
the buses and you had long bus trips or even
if we're flying, we play on the like we loved
to play. You know, wasn't always Texas hold them, might
have been in Chicago or what you name it, right,
it's the high speed in the hole. We just we
love to play. And then so in the summertimes, I'd
always drive down with my buddy and play one to
five stud and and and then literally when I retired,
I was like, well, what am I going to do here?
And I started on ground zero, I mean literally playing
five to five limit hold them, five, ten limit, hold them, ten,
twenty limit, hold them. Gavin Smith used to see me
in Vegas. I'd play twenty forty, real comfortable, and he'd
be like, hey, hockey pot, when do you step up
to the to the big leagues here and play little
thirty sixty forty eighty. I'm MG, no, no, no, I'm good,
and I can't always have the discipline and the money management.
He'd be like, what are you scared to play with us?
And sure enough he'd get me up there and I'd
get whacked, and you know, back to the twenty forty
and then okay, could beat to thirty sixty. Now take
a shot in the one hundred two hundred limit and
get whacked, and you know, go home, regroup and you know,
run up and then switch over to no limit go
into the tournaments. And so yeah, by the time I
got into tournament poker, I mean it was I had
been playing a long time cash games, but it took
a minute from from my first hand in mob let's say,
between you know, the days of hockey and the end
in model. And also I loved it. It didn't matter what
I was playing, you know, whe there was no limit
limit tournaments, I just sometimes would check in at the
Commerce hotel on a Friday and I wouldn't have my
bags unpacked until a Monday, because you know, I'd need
a new underwear every day and a new shirt every day.
And I didn't care what was in my suitcase or
hung up. I just couldn't wait to play. And it's
quite the opposite now where you know, I guess I
got to go sign up for this. I get a
phone call, Hey, you want to go golf. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It is cool to see that you've made sort of
that grind work from the ground up, and especially doing
it in live games playing much lower volume, having to
basically be there, you know, be present the whole time.
Playing one table is definitely something that not many people
can say that they've made it work, starting from there
and then making it making it even to play tournaments
on the regular, which of course those buyings are massive.
When you add up the tally of one summer, it's
so much money that's at stake. But then you start
having some success in tournaments, and then specifically you have
a run at the WSOP in O seven where you
finished second and the five a mixed limit no limit,
and I find it really funny because you are like
the mixed limit no limit guy, you know, like limit
hold them is ultimately what became those bracelets in the
in the in the years after, and then your first
heads up is limit no limit Mix. How much do
you remember from that run and how perhaps uh disappointed
or proud were you of that run?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I was, I remember, mister smokey, I believe won
that one. Steve bill a Rack is very tough player.
And I remember because on breaks I was running to
the Mandalay Bay because Sean Buchanan was heads up in
the WPT when we had a dinner break and I
was going back and forth and he ended up we
were rooming together and he ended up winning the ten
k mandle a ba WPT and I came second. And
I remember, like you'd think two roomies just came first
and second. I mean it was going to be a party.
You'd think that, you know, certain establishments, the money would
be flying around at and I I remember talking to
my dad and I was in quite a melancholy mood,
if you can believe it. He didn't understand it. I
think I won three hundred and fifty thousand for second place,
and you know he can't. My dad worked so hard,
my parents, you know, in the restaurant and they to
hit a score like that and to not be ecstatic,
like he didn't really understand. And what the truth was.
I came in second. I wanted that bracelet so bad.
And instead of Bucky and I going all was celebrating.
We went home at dinner and like we crashed kind of,
you know, there was no I mean, he was excited
to play another tournament the next day at the series,
and that's kind of what we did. But it second
place wasn't Yes, three days a week, whatever days go
by and you realize, hey, that's quite the financial score
that I just made. But in the moment being a competitor.
I wasn't excited about a second place finish. I was
quite upset to not went in. And I was up
against the killer at the time too. I think it
was he was the young to ever win a race
at at the time, but he was a very tough player.
And you know, obviously I realized how like like that
it was a great accomplishment afterwards, but in that moment,
the bitterness of not winning was too much.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're also competitor at heart, so it would
almost be weird for you to be satisfied by being
the first loser, which is kind of what that second
place could mean, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I tell everybody, I say, the crazy thing is,
no matter how deep your run is in this main,
there's only one guy that's going to be happy. Like,
give it two weeks, and you know, second place will
be like I just made six million, Third place will
be I just made four million. Ye, you'll be happy,
You'll be okay, You're gonna have no sympathy and no
pity parties. But in the moment, there's only gonna be
one one happy guy in the moment out of ninety
two and eight. And I stand by that even now
that we're down to nine and it's been an amazing
accomplishment and to get there and the fun I've had
along the way, the support, I mean, that's the part
that is the biggest win of all, just to realize,
oh my goodness, geez, I'm really lucky. I have so
much friends and family genuinely wholehearted rooting for me, whether
they're in the poker world, not in the poker world,
you know, hockey world, high school buddies, like it's been
like that in itself is the biggest win of all,
you know, if you really step and think about it,
you know, and which has been so humbling and so
like emotionally gratifying and stuff, but not being said. Once
I'm in combat anything except winning, it is going to
be at some point a letdown, you know, and just
the way it goes when you're in a competition, unfortunately.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's also the reason why you've
had a long career is because you strive to win,
which in poker is one of the key components because
once you don't care about winning anymore, as you mentioned earlier,
once once that sort of zest leaves the room, then
it's hard to gear up for, you know, as you mentioned,
you know, laid regging with ten bigs and just tossing
it in there because you didn't care anymore.
Speaker 1: And I don't. And I think it's and I think
that's true for all professions, or all hobbies or all
anything that you do. If you don't enjoy it, your
your your work is going to be subpar and of story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you get one more second place before
you win your first place. At in eight you finished
second in a shootout, and then in nine, which by
the way, was my first World Series. I was twenty
one in nine, and I'll never forget this because I
was there when you won. I was there when you
won your first, and I was there when you won
your second. I think, if I recall correctly, at the time,
there was a lot of buzz like, oh, Greg Mueller,
he's one of those guys, one of the top players
who doesn't have a bracelet. And you had two second
places and that was sort of going around and you
like you had to close it out, and then you
win the first one, and then you almost immediately win
the second one right after beating the Dutch player Mark
Nolden heads up, who was also known as a limit player.
Dead must must have been the rush of a lifetime
that week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean the ten K that I won.
I mean, when I look back on it, the amount
of killers that were at that table. You know, Mark
Haas tv F was his online name. I don't even
remember his.
Speaker 2: Name, Carolina Carolina, and.
Speaker 1: Matt Glantz I believe was at the final table, Pat Pesan,
Chad Brown, Chad Brown the Love Chad Brown, and uh
maybe Mark Kleekan might have been at that one or
was he a different one?
Speaker 2: And it was it was It was a mad glance
glance Brumblehouse, the Dutch.
Speaker 1: Guy, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And and I mean it
was a it was it was. It was a who's
who of the limit killers, right, so yeah, it was
very special, and like you said, to win the to
win the next one right after confidence, it's a funny thing.
You know, you're feeling the high and you're just zigging
when you're supposed to be and you're zagging when you're
supposed to be and like, you know, two races in
a week, it was just like what is going on here?
You know? And that being said, the high right now
is higher than it was then. I mean, it was
so long ago, it's hard to it's hard to say
for sure, but I still think that the accomplishment or
the rush or the you know, to make the final
nine of this is I just I think it's tougher.
I mean, it's pretty close, but it's it's certainly more recent.
So I'm going to go with.
Speaker 2: That that that's really that's really awesome to hear that
you have this experience now that's already trumping what happens
fifteen years ago, and in a way it is only
just begun because making the final table the main to me,
almost feels like you've won, you've won the satellite and
now you get invited back to play the tournament.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, true, that's very true. No, And I tell
people like like final table ESPN people flying out, it's great,
million bucks. I mean it's great, it's amazing, it's it's
more than amazing. But ten million and being the champ
quite a difference. You know, it's financially, it's not like
it's one versus one point five or it's nine versus ten.
One in ten million, that's in the real world and
absolute incredible, insane difference. So as as well as I
have done in this event this year, I do still
have so much work to do, which is sounds insane,
but it's you know, it's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the finances of the life as a poker
pro always fascinated me because we see the cases, and
we see the winnings and we see the winner photos,
but we don't see the lows. We don't see the
long walk to the parking lot. We don't see this like,
you know, the slumped shoulders in the in the elevator
after a losing cash session. What has that been like
for you over the years, What have the ups and
downs been like? And how does how much does this
contrast against you know, your career or perhaps recent years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's very very good question. I mean, the
glamorous successes of reaching a final table or winning a
bracelet or I mean, there is no high or high
in the in the pocal world, but the lows of
running bad, thinking you're running bad, and playing bad, actually
running bad, actually playing bad, regardless of how you're playing.
Just constantly find yourself talking to yourself. You find yourself.
You know, you've quit Kings against Queens with one card
to come, and you just know the Queen's coming. It's
just like and there it is, and it's just another jolt,
and you just you know the equity you just got
robbed of. As you're walking yourself and talking to yourself
and it's like anybody that will listen, you just have
the need to tell them. Nobody cares. They all got
their own things going on, and and yeah, it's h
you know, I've heard a lot of good players. I
mean I heard Scott Seaver had no cashes through forty
events or one cash or something. I mean, look at
the guys. The hell of a player. You know, he's
one of the game's greatest. And it just shows you
how brutal variance can be. And when you're on the
wrong side. That's why the thing is, you can never
be too arrogant or cocky when you're riding the wave
because you can snap so fast. And being on the
other side just sucks so much in this industry and
the financial disasters, the the confidence being gone, the pain
that you're in as you continue to lose, whether you're
on a ten percent favorite, a ninety percent favorite, a
coin flip. When you're on the wrong side, of variants
and there there's just no stopping. It's just not like
you know, you see a Roulett wheel. I have buddies
that aren't gamblers and they they see a relet, they
go to Vegas. They tell me, oh, I saw like
fourteen reds in a row, so I met black. The
rolette doesn't have a brain, and it's not supposed to
become black because it went fourteen reds and it's it
could be fifty reds. It's just, you know, variance is
a is a funny thing. And when you're on the
you never want to kick someone that's struggling, and you
never want to act too good when you're rolling, because
being on the right side of aarons there's no better feeling,
and being on the wrong side of it is the worst.
When you're talking about being involved in poker, you know.
Speaker 2: So when you when you were telling me these stories,
there must be things flashing through your mind of moments
where things weren't going your way, or perhaps years or
stretches or summers where you know you were sort of
banging your head against the wall. Are there specific moments
that come to mind where you maybe weren't sure that
you know you could keep doing this or even wanting
to do this.
Speaker 1: Oh. I was first time I had got an airbnb
with another poker buddy and it was three summers ago.
It didn't matter what I played. It didn't matter what
I played. I couldn't win. And I truly thought, I
like to look myself in the mirror first instead of
just blaming the bad luck. And I was. I was like,
I think the game's passed me by, Like I just
I can't. I mean, you know, i'd ask other players
played it greats just he just ran bad. I'm like,
but can I can I always play great and run
bad and or play it right and run bad. It
just didn't matter. I lost that summer. I lost, you know,
at every variation of poker that you could be like,
we're doing flips. I'm losing. Let's play OFC Chinese poker.
I'm losing tournaments. Screw it, I'm going to play a tournament.
I'd lose. Play a cash game, I'd lose. And it
didn't matter whether it was a bad beat or it wasn't.
It just I found myself taking days off sitting at
the pool like it was. It's very challenging on the
brain to where I was like, what, like that was
the time I actually really was wanting to leave early
because it was like, there's just no point. And a
part of me was, you know, did the game just
pass me? You know, I try to be realistic and
I know that I ran really poorly, but a part
of me was like that the game passing by, and
you know, and and a poker buddy, Adam Freedman, you know,
he told me like, I don't mean to be disrespectful,
but you've ran bad. And you know he witnessed it.
You've ran really bad all summer. That's two months of
condensed poker condensed, right, So two months at the series
is more like almost like a year because you're playing
so many hours and so intense. Right, he goes, your
streak is not that long, and it could go for
two more summers, you know, And that's the brutal reality
is that it can. But on the flip side, you
win two bracelets in a week, well, you're obviously running
quite well to do that. You're not just you don't
go from genius to you know, more on like it's
and that's the thing that if you can play within
your means, if you can play within a bank roll.
If you can grasp the highs and lows and not
be married to poker where that's the only thing that's
going to give you validation in life, then you'll get
through it, you know, whether it's nieces and nephews, friends, families, hobbies,
other successes, other things. The more you got going out,
the more you have going on outside the table, off
the felt, the more you can handle the downswings. I believe.
Speaker 2: It's a testament to I guess, persistence and discipline and
perhaps being you know, hardheaded enough to keep on pushing
forward for you to now be in this spot. So
year round when you're none of the wsop, do you
still go out there and play? Do you make trips
to go play cash like? How do you? How do
you perhaps you know, stay on the stay is stay
like keep the rust off, or perhaps you know, just
just a flexial poker muscle a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, you know, every second December I'll
head out to the wind for a week. It's the
vibe in Vegas is always really good before Christmas. It's
kind of like everyone one gets away from the family
to be a DJN for one more week before gambling
gets shut off for four days and it's you know,
strictly family and presents and dinners and you know everyone.
The vibe has always been amazing. They used to have that.
I don't know if it was the Festa logo or
if it was the There was a tournament at the
Bolagio right before Christmas.
Speaker 2: I finally diamond part of me, five diamond.
Speaker 1: Five dimies. Yeah, that's the one. And everyone was always
in a you know, Jack ran that ran some good tournament.
Sarah McClellan, rest in Peace, Jack and he had the
twelve o'clock start till like eight forty five, no dinner breaks,
just you know, five levels and you're not done too
late and go for dinner, and you're not starting too early.
You go for some drinks. And the vibe in December
was always amazing. And so sometimes now I found myself
going to the Win every second year and playing little cash,
going to I went to YouTube the one year at
the Severere and go to a football game, a couple
of hockey games, play a bit of poker, you know.
But other than trips like that, and again we're talking
years years before I would go to the commerce, and
you know, be in the commerce all of January and
February and then in Vegas March and eight or like,
things are way different. You know. I'm literally not touching
a hand. I play like some I like to play
a little bit of OFC online, a Chinese poker while
I'm having my breakfast or whatever. But other than that,
I find myself not playing a hand for ten and
a half months. And I'm golfing, I'm playing hockey, I'm
working out, I'm in my hot tub, I'm seeing I'm
going for walks, seeing my family, seeing my friends, and
going to sporting events. I love doing that, you know,
And that's that's what I do. So when you said,
you know, how do I stay? I feel like if
I have a good headspace, excuse me, that's enough to
for me to show up and not be behind the
eight ball, like or not rusty.
Speaker 2: It sounds like you're literally living living every man's dream.
You go to Vegas, Vegas once a year to gamble
and play some cards, You go to sporting events, play
some golf. This really sounds like you you have life
figured out. I mean this, too many people is like
the recipe for for how how how to live to
be an old man.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's uh yeah, I mean I don't disagree. And
and I was even getting sick of the month and
a half that I was in Vegas because of the
you know, the grind, the taxing on the body, the
lack of sleep. You know, It's funny. People will will
know how I'm doing in the cash games, not based
on my chips, not based on my demeanor, because my
demeanor is usually pretty good, but based on what I'm eating.
And and if they see me there the walk up
FP oh oh, I'll let you be FBT. I'm like, no, no,
it's all good. I know you're struggling today. You got
a giant bowl of ice cream whipped cream cookies going on,
so they know, you know, I'm in one and that's
my my coping mechanism. Or they'll see me they'll be
like crushing it today. I'll be like, what do you mean?
I don't even have many chips on the table. They're like, yeah,
you're eating grilled chicken and breast with you know, broccoli
and and and they're not wrong. You know, when you're
when you're winning and everything's good, the chips are nicely
in order and yes, I'll get the steam broccoli and
the chicken breast. And you know, four am, I can't
win a single hand. Bring the ice cream, bring extra
whipped cream, and you know, and anyway, so it's it's
taxing on the body mentally, physically and even you know,
even and that's the thing, like like you said, me
not having an alarm clock at home, me me getting
I'm very fortunate, I know, the like the I'm dialed
into the golf course that I play at and I
get the prime tea times which are like eleven or
noon tea off, so I can wake up, have breakfast,
have a hot tub, stretch, head to the golf course.
You know, we gamble it up a bit out there,
walk at the exercise, go up top for the nineteenth
tole have a glass of wine or two, come back
and you know, the next day it's hockey on the agenda.
And you know, so so having that, like you said
that Cushy figured out lifestyle. Now to go and sit
in the trenches for a month and a half of
no sleep and getting buried and losing you know, bet
in sports and doing all the rest of it, it's
mentally taxing it's physically taxing. And so that's why I
was starting to have the you know, the doubts of why,
you know, especially if I'm losing. You know, it's one thing,
it's one thing, and people people think that poker happiness
is all based on winning and losing, and it is
for a lot of people. And of course, if I'm
winning every single day, it's going to be a lot
easier than if you're losing every day. I mean obviously,
but it's not even so much that it's just it's
just not really into the grind of you know. Now
now it's my current state of mind, it's probably a
little bit different, you know, you know right now. Yeah poker,
Oh yeah, poker like it's the best. You know. But
that's that's the the uh oxymoron or the the ying
and the yang about it is that, you know, it
can be the high of all highs and the low
of all lows. And that's what makes these tournaments so
amazing as you can have any gender, any race, any
age come in and believe they can win, and they can.
You know, that's the you know, a running race. If
I'm going to go do a sprint with somebody that's faster.
We can go one hundred times. Unless he rolls his ankle,
he's gonna beat me a hundred times. But if we
play little heads up poker games, anybody can win, right,
So that's the that's the beauty of poker.
Speaker 2: I'm really worried though, that whatever place you land on
at the final table, we will never see you again.
You are going to be like, I've done it now,
I've made the final table of the Main. However, many
millions you go home with is enough to buy infinite
rounds of golf and lots of ice cream, and we'll
never see Greg again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I mean, it's not It's not the most
unrealistic thought for sure, But I think, you know, especially
if I won the Main, I would I would come in,
especially for some bigger events. You know, I might. I might.
I might take a shot in the real big cash game,
you know three three K, six K for fun, or
you know, I'd come in and play the PPC. I
always enjoy playing that one. I did not play it
this year, just wasn't feeling it, but that I would
always come in and play that one, and you know
I'd come back and play the main and probably the
ten k Nolan a single draw like I love that one.
Didn't play it again this year, so I didn't play
this one or the PBC this year. And you know
last year, I think I came in seventh or eight.
Nick Shulman busted me and it ultimately ended up winning.
That's a Those are fun events for me because when
you're sitting at the table, you know everybody, you're doing
almost prop bets on the side, you're chatting. It's not
this stiff energy of course WIETNSS tanking for forty seconds,
picking your hand out and dropping the chips. In these tournaments,
everybody knows each other, so you're it's just like a
bunch of guys sitting together bullshitting. And so those events
are fun for me, you know, versus walking into a
room with ten thousand people. Everybody's got their earbuds in,
nobody's talking, everybody's tanking, polarizing their calls and folds, and
you know, so I think win or lose, I think,
you know, those types of events, especially if I win more,
you know, to fly in and enter the fifty k,
you know the way Blesnik does, just comes in and
has a jolly good old time. Whether he wins or loses.
That would I can see myself doing that, But I
certainly wouldn't if I won the main event, I would
not be there for two months grinding the cash games
and the fifteen hundreds. No, that would not happen.
Speaker 2: I got a few more small ones before I let
you go. It's already been super fun and insightful to
hear hear your perspective on all these things. What kind
of experience do you want to take away from the
final table itself? What are you looking for as far
as you know, soaking it all in or perhaps purely
focused and driven on performance or one thing I've heard
you talk about is you know you've got tons of friends,
hockey buddies, whoever else coming to town, and you know,
experiencing this with friends and family. How do you how
do you look at that?
Speaker 1: Crazy enough? I see like, I know it's me playing,
but I almost see it like a team atmosphere, and
I don't want to let the team down kind of,
you know, like in hockey, like I've mentioned many times,
if a guy gives you a cheap shot, you want
to just punch him in the face or take a
stick to me, you can't do that because you take
a penalty, right, and then you're you're hurting your team. Well,
I get that this is not a team game and
it's an individual game, and I know this, but it's
kind of been like a ride with you know, the
local poker league. Is there's a group chat that I'm
in even though I'm not part of their league, and
they're all behind me, and then there's the hockey buddies
behind me, and then there's poker. But and I just
kind of feel like, you know, like I I want
to I want I want the team to win kind of,
you know, And so I don't I don't know if
I have the expectations. I don't know if I know
what I'm going to expect. I mean, I'm sure I'll
have all the nerves of excitement, of competitive juices flowing,
probably some nerves, you know. It's it's it's an unbelievable opportunity.
The experience will be amazing. I hope I run really
good and and and play well and give myself a
chance to win.
Speaker 2: And I mean, I that's all I can do, really,
I mean, I couldn't think of a better response to
to close this one out with Greg. Thank you so
much for your time. It's been great hearing from you.
I'll see, I'll see in a couple of days, I'm
gonna bring out a scale to make sure you lost
those twenty LB's.
Speaker 1: It won't be twenty, but it'll be over ten and
feeling a lot better and I can leave the tombs
at home.
Speaker 2: Good see there we go. Yeah, we've got the We'll
got the steam, broccoli and chicken waiting waiting for you
to stay locked in for a couple of days. Once again, Greg,
thank you so much for people watching at home. This
was face DA's leave a comment like the video and
the hat was not an homage to some Safari. This
one was really bright here in the office that I'm
recording in. Thank you guys all so much. We have
more episodes coming every week of face Das. If you
scrapped to the channel, you'll see all those hitting your feet.
For now, let's let's rulee Greg on at the final table.
I believe action kicks off on Monday and then three days, Greg,
that's all it is, three days to win ten million bucks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's going to be three hard days
and uh yeah, I'm really looking forward to it, and
uh yeah, thanks thanks for Uncle always. Like you said,
we go back a long time. And I've never seen
you and not smiled no matter what my state, my
mental state is in in that moment, whenever I see you,
whether it's twice a summer, once a summer, twenty times
a summer, I see you, it's always, uh, fantastic energy
that you exude, and then it's easy to smile around you,
so