1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: These are such amazing questions and we're getting such a 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,839 good conversation rolling here that we are going to stop 3 00:00:06,919 --> 00:00:10,000 this episode right here, but keep rolling right into the 4 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,640 next one. So for now, we are going to go 5 00:00:12,679 --> 00:00:15,720 ahead and say thank you to everybody who wrote in 6 00:00:15,759 --> 00:00:17,960 for questions, and if you didn't hear your question in 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,879 this episode, stay tuned for the next one, you'll probably 8 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,559 hear it there. For now, thank you so much for 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,399 listening to this episode of Mind Over Murder. My name 10 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:27,359 is Grianaxilliam. 11 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:31,199 Speaker 2: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, 12 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:34,719 as well as the social media manager and co administrator 13 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:37,799 for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 14 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,399 in crime, Bill Thomas. 15 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,359 Speaker 1: Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. 16 00:00:43,439 --> 00:00:45,679 Speaker 3: I'm Kristin Dilly and I'm Bill Thomas. 17 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: It is a winter snowstorm, horrific day here in coastal Virginia. 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,119 Are you guys having snow like we're having snow? 19 00:00:54,359 --> 00:00:55,719 Speaker 3: We are not having snow. 20 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,719 Speaker 4: I think it's very Christmas and holiday appropriate for you 21 00:00:59,759 --> 00:01:02,479 all have snow. We had snow last week which is 22 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,640 still sticking around. It was like eleven degrees this morning. 23 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,760 Lots of snow and lots of ice, so we had 24 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:14,480 to tread carefully. As one says, you seem positively tickled 25 00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:17,560 that you've had a snow day. We're recording this on 26 00:01:17,599 --> 00:01:20,879 a Monday. Tell me what happened that boy? Those two 27 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,920 to four inches of snow must be really quite the 28 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:24,879 weather emergency. 29 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: It's Virginia. And remember, even though we have salt trucks, 30 00:01:28,879 --> 00:01:30,920 brin trucks and everything like that, we do not have 31 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,560 a ton of snow plannels. They mainly worry about the 32 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,400 roads freezing and refreezing in time for school. So the 33 00:01:37,439 --> 00:01:39,760 precipitation was going to come in at a point this 34 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,120 morning where if we dismissed early, buses would have been 35 00:01:43,159 --> 00:01:45,120 on the roads right around the time the road started 36 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,840 getting slick, which you don't want. At this point, around 37 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,920 five fifteen in the afternoon, we still have a lot 38 00:01:51,959 --> 00:01:55,040 of snow falling, so we'll see what happens about school tomorrow. 39 00:01:55,519 --> 00:01:58,079 But we also had a snow day on Friday. This 40 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,480 is from two separate systems, so so I'm fine with 41 00:02:01,599 --> 00:02:05,560 having had a four day week and potentially a seth 42 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,319 if things mise as we're hoping. San Dude, I have 43 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,120 a lot of grating that I need to do, and 44 00:02:12,159 --> 00:02:16,199 I managed to get through twenty five essays just in 45 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,360 the couple of hours before we started working, So I 46 00:02:19,759 --> 00:02:22,439 am fine if tomorrow I have to finish my essays. 47 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,960 Sitting down the couch with a Christmas tree twinkling and 48 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,560 with Criminal Minds playing on Amazon, I. 49 00:02:29,599 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 4: Thought for certain you were going to say Paul McCartney's 50 00:02:32,719 --> 00:02:35,400 Wonderful Christmas Time playing on the stereo. 51 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 3: I hate no song. 52 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 4: I don't like to air our collective dirty laundry here. 53 00:02:41,479 --> 00:02:44,520 But before I hit the big red button which says RC, 54 00:02:44,719 --> 00:02:47,039 which stands for a record, in case you're not into 55 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,199 that technological stuff. Before I hit the record button, Kristin 56 00:02:51,719 --> 00:02:55,919 was just buzzing around her house in Virginia, enjoying the snow, 57 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,319 and I caught it. Smort I heard her humming, see 58 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:08,039 be a Wonderful Christmas Time along those lines. No, I imagine. 59 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 3: That you did. 60 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: Actually, the thing that I've been humming actually is this 61 00:03:12,719 --> 00:03:16,840 fabulous little diddy for the Welcome to Dairy themes song. 62 00:03:17,199 --> 00:03:21,080 I have been watching Welcome to Dairy, this happy bouncy 63 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:24,560 little tune which starts out a terrible horror ridden show, 64 00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:27,120 and I've had that tune in my head for the 65 00:03:27,199 --> 00:03:30,680 last twenty four hours, so I've been singing the little 66 00:03:30,759 --> 00:03:33,800 catchy tune from Welcome to Day, and anybody who's been 67 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,639 watching it you know what I'm talking about. 68 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 4: I'm shuddering here because I am not the guy who's 69 00:03:39,879 --> 00:03:42,800 going to watch those spooky scary films. 70 00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 3: Forget it. 71 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know, and that's I'm a Stephen 72 00:03:47,039 --> 00:03:49,719 King fan from way back. It is my favorite book, 73 00:03:49,919 --> 00:03:52,919 and this has not been quite the series that I 74 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,680 wanted it to be. But I'm going to see it 75 00:03:54,719 --> 00:03:58,280 all the way through and then I can justifiably criticize 76 00:03:58,280 --> 00:03:59,960 it after I've watched the whole entire thing. 77 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:02,439 Speaker 3: But first, you're going to sit through this gore fest. 78 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: Yeah no, look, I definitely am wholeheartedly of the belief 79 00:04:07,599 --> 00:04:11,120 that most horror movies are way too gory, and I 80 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,680 would like to see a whole lot less. There was 81 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,719 enough gore and Welcome to Dairy that I was like, 82 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,560 I'm going to have to fast forward through at least 83 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,519 a little bit of this because it's nasty. I think 84 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,600 you can make a great scary movie or a scary 85 00:04:22,639 --> 00:04:25,800 TV series without resulting in bucket loads of. 86 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 4: Gore would have to agree, but I could have sworn 87 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:30,639 I heard you. 88 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:32,399 Speaker 3: You could know you did not. You did not. 89 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,399 Speaker 1: I worked in retail for too many years to go 90 00:04:34,439 --> 00:04:37,120 around hunting Christmas carols. I will not even listen to 91 00:04:37,199 --> 00:04:39,720 Christmas carols this time of the year. It's too many 92 00:04:39,759 --> 00:04:42,399 years of eight hour days listening to Christmas music. 93 00:04:42,519 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 3: I won't do it. 94 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 4: I'm old enough to remember that when I was in college, 95 00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:49,399 which is a million years ago, and we cleaned grocery 96 00:04:49,439 --> 00:04:52,639 stores and retail stores in the floor I was only 97 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,759 what was then known as a floor crew. The worst 98 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,839 was there was a big department store we would go 99 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,879 when to clean the floors, and they played the same 100 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,959 ten Christmas songs yep on a tape in the same order. 101 00:05:07,439 --> 00:05:13,560 It was the most insane, infuriating, bizarre thing. I remember 102 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,199 asking the people that worked there. It was like a 103 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,439 Marshal's or something like that. I said, does this drive 104 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,720 you insane? And they said, oh, I tuned it out 105 00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:25,439 months ago because they played the same ten songs, which 106 00:05:25,519 --> 00:05:28,720 lasted about an hour, ten or fifteen whatever. And it's funny, 107 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,120 if you were close enough to the office, it would 108 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,839 stop the Christmas song, and then it'd be a click 109 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,079 and here the same no, the same song. The next 110 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,839 song would play. But we were only there for a 111 00:05:39,879 --> 00:05:42,839 couple of hours once a week. Maybe by the time 112 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,360 you got out of there, it was all ingrained in 113 00:05:45,399 --> 00:05:48,720 your brain. And can you imagine working eight, ten, twelve hours. 114 00:05:49,399 --> 00:05:50,560 You'd want to kill yourself. 115 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:52,079 Speaker 3: Yep, yep. 116 00:05:52,199 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: Not a Christmas music fan. All retail workers will agree 117 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:55,319 on this one. 118 00:05:55,439 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 4: I worked for ASCAP, the Songwriters Organization. I'm here to 119 00:05:58,519 --> 00:06:01,759 tell you, if you're lucky enough to write a Christmas 120 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:04,199 song that's a hit, you can make more money with 121 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,360 a Christmas song, which is only played one month a 122 00:06:06,439 --> 00:06:10,120 year than you do with almost any other form of 123 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:11,000 pop music. 124 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 3: It's amazing. 125 00:06:12,519 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: Really, it's more like two months out of the year. 126 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:21,399 It starts in November, say have the Wonderful Christmas. Jose 127 00:06:21,519 --> 00:06:24,560 Feliciano told me when I met him that he had 128 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,839 made more money with Felice Navidad, which he wrote for 129 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,360 his kids, and then the record company heard it and 130 00:06:30,399 --> 00:06:33,600 said we really like this, and he said, okay, fire away, 131 00:06:33,879 --> 00:06:35,959 and they released it as a single. He said, I've 132 00:06:35,959 --> 00:06:37,720 made more money with that one song than I have 133 00:06:37,879 --> 00:06:42,160 with the entire rest of Mike's catalog. No, what I mean, 134 00:06:42,199 --> 00:06:43,800 you hit a lucky streak. You got to just go 135 00:06:43,879 --> 00:06:47,319 with it. It's fantastic. Yes, good for him on the 136 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,079 more serious matters. So the more serious matters, what's up today, 137 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,040 Kristin Dilly, Well, he decided on and ask us anything 138 00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:56,639 formatt because we have had a lot of people send 139 00:06:56,639 --> 00:07:00,240 in questions with regard to our most recent episodes, the 140 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,879 ones involving the recent break in the Colonial Parkway murders 141 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,759 case regarding Laurie and Powell, and also the one that 142 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,519 we released with Kelly Richards and Joyce Call Canada with 143 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,600 regard to some very interesting connections that we've learned between 144 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,920 Ron Little and Alan Weidwilmer Senior. So we decided on 145 00:07:18,959 --> 00:07:22,360 and ask us anything, And as so often happens when 146 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,279 we put out and ask us anything request, we asked 147 00:07:25,319 --> 00:07:28,480 and people answered, We're gonna just run through as many 148 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,639 questions as we can in the time that we have, 149 00:07:31,199 --> 00:07:33,680 but let's just go ahead and fire away. But because 150 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,439 someone did send us a non serious, non crime related question, 151 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,040 I'll start with that one oh day, get into murder 152 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,639 and conspiracy and all the rest of that. 153 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: All right, sounds good. Fire away. 154 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,519 Speaker 1: Our first non serious question comes from Kimberly, who asks 155 00:07:48,839 --> 00:07:51,519 a non serious question. As an animal lover, can we 156 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,000 please hear a little about your pets. We'd love to 157 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,759 see photos too, if they aren't too private. Bill tell 158 00:07:56,839 --> 00:07:58,720 us about Oliver, the very good. 159 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 4: Docs end Well. Oliver was out today Christmas shopping with us, 160 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,759 and he was a major hit. For those of you 161 00:08:04,839 --> 00:08:07,120 that have never met Oliver, which would probably be most 162 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:12,000 of you. Oliver is a medium sized, long haired docsin 163 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,439 so he's black and tan with long fur. Sometimes people 164 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,360 think that he is not a dox in because although 165 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,240 he looks like a doxin and barks like a dosin, 166 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:23,279 he has long hair. 167 00:08:23,319 --> 00:08:24,759 Speaker 3: But there are three types of doctions. 168 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,199 Speaker 4: Their short hair, which is what most of us think of, 169 00:08:27,319 --> 00:08:30,920 or smooth coat they call him. There's wire haired who 170 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,559 I think are hysterical. They've got more of a squared 171 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,559 off head and look like a terrier head on a 172 00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:39,120 docks and body, and there may be some truth to that. 173 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,759 And there are long haired doctions like Oliver, so he 174 00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:47,519 has the long body and very bushy hair. Interestingly, they 175 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,679 are hypollergenics, so they don't cause me to sneeze. Some 176 00:08:51,879 --> 00:08:55,559 dog breeds and cats cause me to sneeze. That's Oliver. 177 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,919 Oliver is a ferocious watchdog, very attached to my part 178 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,200 or Pamela. He's oh my gosh, he's a rescue dogs. 179 00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:06,240 I I was thirteen years old. And his big thing 180 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:11,200 is he must be within say roughly six feet that 181 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,600 would be two meters for our friends in New Zealand, 182 00:09:13,759 --> 00:09:16,600 close to Pamela or closer at all times. So he 183 00:09:16,799 --> 00:09:20,120 follows her from room to room, which can include the 184 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:23,799 lady's room. So sometimes he'll follow her into the bathroom 185 00:09:23,799 --> 00:09:25,879 and then of course I'll be outside saying are we 186 00:09:25,919 --> 00:09:27,159 having a family meeting in there? 187 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 3: Oliver will follow. 188 00:09:29,039 --> 00:09:33,159 Speaker 4: Her literally everywhere, and he just loses his little docs 189 00:09:33,159 --> 00:09:37,519 in mind when she's gone, For instance, she goes out 190 00:09:37,639 --> 00:09:42,080 meeting with friends, doctor's appointment, whatever. If she's gone, he 191 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,440 is broken hearted. It's been a number of times when 192 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:47,320 Kristin and I have been on the phone, she's is 193 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,639 that Oliver, because it'll sound like there's a coyote in 194 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:56,080 the other room, Yes, doing the ouh thing, because he 195 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:57,320 just can't stand it. 196 00:09:57,759 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: He sounds utterly broken hearted. And it is many the 197 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,879 time that I call Bill and I can hear Oliver 198 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,240 in the background, and he just sounds Oh, he's so 199 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,720 upset and he's so sad. So Pamela is his favorite 200 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,879 person and Bill is like a distant second. 201 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a huge margin between Pamela up here at 202 00:10:17,879 --> 00:10:20,360 the top of the list, Bill down here, and then 203 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:22,360 I'd like to think the rest of the world might 204 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,120 be a little bit below me, but I'm not even 205 00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:28,240 sure about that. He's extremely protective of his house and property. 206 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:35,399 His sworn enemies, the United States Postal Service, FedEx ups, 207 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,159 and the Amazonians. They drive down our street quite frequently. 208 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,159 He objects to all of them. He'll even bark. We've 209 00:10:44,159 --> 00:10:47,320 been on the New Jersey Turnpike and a massive FedEx 210 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,840 struck will drive by. If he sees the logo, he'll 211 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:51,960 start bark. 212 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:52,919 Speaker 3: Oh wow. 213 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:57,799 Speaker 1: I did have an absolutely amazing cat named Ziggy Stardust. 214 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,519 Ziggy unfortunately passed away from some cancer this past May, 215 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,240 which broke my heart, and I ended up getting another 216 00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:10,559 cat named Juniper. Her original name was Pinsel because she 217 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,799 was found in Christmas time last year. Oh very sweet, 218 00:11:14,919 --> 00:11:18,360 but I decided to rename her to Juniper. So she 219 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,559 is also an orange cat like Ziggy. She's more orange 220 00:11:22,639 --> 00:11:25,879 than sand colored, which he was. She's still got that 221 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,360 crazy kitten manic energy, so she races around the house 222 00:11:29,399 --> 00:11:31,559 at the crack of dawn and any other time she 223 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,440 feels like it. You can tell she's a rescue. She 224 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,440 spent most of her life from December when she was 225 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,519 caught last year, up until June when I rescued her 226 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,399 in a cage at Pet Smart. So she has had 227 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:50,759 very little socialization and is not great about being loved 228 00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:55,039 and hugged. But we're getting better and she is very sweet. 229 00:11:55,159 --> 00:11:58,720 She is not Ziggy, but I love her just as 230 00:11:58,799 --> 00:12:02,919 much and we are learning to continue to get along 231 00:12:02,919 --> 00:12:06,320 with each other. She is very agile. She loves to 232 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,200 jump all over things. She will jump like from the 233 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,320 floor all the way to the top of her very 234 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,159 tall scratching post. She loves chasing things. She loves her 235 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,480 laser mouse. So I haven't one of those laser things, 236 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,840 but it's got a little mouse shaped cover on top 237 00:12:20,879 --> 00:12:23,559 of it. We're still getting to know and love each other, 238 00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:27,279 but she is as sweetie, and I am glad to 239 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,320 have a cat that is as soft and nearly as 240 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:31,240 adorable as Ziggy. 241 00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 4: Those are big pause to follow in. One thing I've 242 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,639 noticed about Juny is that she loves to disrupt podcast 243 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,360 recording sessions by chewing on wires and attempting to unplug 244 00:12:43,399 --> 00:12:44,399 computers and stuff. 245 00:12:44,919 --> 00:12:47,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, Ziggy did that too, but not nearly as much 246 00:12:47,399 --> 00:12:50,679 as Junny does. And we are definitely we were definitely 247 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,360 prepared for havoc to be reached on the Christmas tree. 248 00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:56,519 But fortunately she's done fairly well because I've trained her 249 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,919 with a squirt model. We do not get near the tree. 250 00:12:59,039 --> 00:13:01,639 So she's right now, she's sleeping on the back of 251 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:04,279 the sofa while I'm in here doing my podcast. 252 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 3: But that is Junifer put up some pictures of both 253 00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:07,840 Yeah and I. 254 00:13:07,879 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: We'll sit up some pictures. So Kim also had a 255 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,240 serious question, and she says, do you guys know of 256 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:17,840 any murders that could potentially be linked to Alan Wade 257 00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:21,720 Wilmer in Maryland? I live in Maryland and could definitely 258 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,120 see him bringing his boat up here and also hanging 259 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,000 out at some of the dive bars on the local 260 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,480 creeks that existed at the time. Bill, you want to 261 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:29,240 take this one. 262 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 4: We've heard some very strange rumors. All they are is rumors, 263 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:39,000 but we've heard some very odd stories about Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior, 264 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,519 the deceased suspect in the Colonial Parkway murders, now linked 265 00:13:42,519 --> 00:13:46,759 to four double homicides, including Lorian Powells. We've heard some 266 00:13:46,919 --> 00:13:51,440 very strange stories about Wilmer and a couple of other men, 267 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,559 including a younger cousin, who used to make what they 268 00:13:55,639 --> 00:14:00,919 called hunting trips up to the area around Waldorf, Maryland. 269 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,440 So this would involve them heading north from Lancaster County, 270 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,720 which is home base for Wilmer and most of the 271 00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:11,200 watermen that he worked with, and head north across the 272 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,399 Potomac River. Of course, across the Rappahannock as well. There 273 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,399 were a series of strip clubs, some of which I 274 00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:23,879 think are still there along the highway coming down from Waldorf, 275 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:28,799 Maryland towards the Potomac River. We heard some very strange stories, 276 00:14:29,399 --> 00:14:31,960 some of which I haven't completely run to ground yet. 277 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,759 We've had a lot going on. I'm aware of some 278 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,159 women who danced at these clubs who went missing. That's 279 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:45,440 an interesting possibility. We can't name names at this point 280 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,200 of potential victims, but it's a sort of tantalizing possibility 281 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,039 that's out there as we'll discuss today. There's a lot 282 00:14:54,120 --> 00:15:00,000 of different aspects of Allan Wayde Wilmer's patterns in these murders. 283 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,639 When Kristin and I were recently discussing the Colonial Parkway 284 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,399 murders in the latest development with former FBI profilers Jim 285 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:12,639 Fitzgerald and Raymond Carr, fitz and Ray were educating us, 286 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,399 as they often are, about how killers operate and how 287 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:21,399 they may behave in different ways depending on the situation 288 00:15:21,559 --> 00:15:24,799 they find themselves in. I'll let Kristin explain more. This 289 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,840 Waldorf Maryland connection is something that I really am hoping 290 00:15:28,879 --> 00:15:31,120 to look into in the coming weeks and months. 291 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: I think that it's an excellent possibility that he was 292 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,759 moving up into too Maryland, especially given the intel that 293 00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:44,679 Bill has received. I think what this really highlights is 294 00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:49,960 the need for all of the investigating agencies here VSP 295 00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:54,639 as well as FBI, assuming they're willing to do their jobs, 296 00:15:54,919 --> 00:15:59,679 and any other investigating agency that may have cold cases 297 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,799 on their radar that they think could be linked to Wilmer. 298 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,960 It's time for them to all sit down and really 299 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,799 have a what do we have? Let's lay it out 300 00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:15,679 on the table. As fitz and Ray had told us. 301 00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:19,200 When we discussed the aspects of this case with them, 302 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,120 Fitz kept using the term apex predator for Wilmer, and 303 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,679 I think that's a great term for him. And with 304 00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:31,639 apex predators, they all have a hunting ground or hunting zone. 305 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,799 We don't know how far that extends for Wilmer, either 306 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,720 up or down. The Intra Coastal Waterway runs all the 307 00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:44,399 way through Virginia, North Carolina, even as far down as Florida. 308 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,799 Where else was Wilmer taking his boat and hunting. We 309 00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:53,240 really have no idea until there are multiple investigative agencies 310 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,279 that are willing to look at this and go, here 311 00:16:56,279 --> 00:16:59,279 are the facts. We have a serial killer, a confirmed 312 00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:02,840 serial killer, with a boat, who was working in Virginia, 313 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,519 and he has a massive reach. We're going to have 314 00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:09,680 to take this seriously. Let's get everybody's cards on the table, 315 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,039 and let's see what cases could be potentially matched to him. 316 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,519 Until such time as that happens, it's all going to 317 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:21,279 be speculation and supposition on our part until law enforcement 318 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,799 kind of gets it together. We can speculate all day long, 319 00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:27,359 and I think most of our speculation is going to 320 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,279 be fairly well informed. I think we are currently the 321 00:17:31,319 --> 00:17:34,400 people who are covering this the most and have the 322 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:38,599 best information in terms of podcasters. But it's really going 323 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,720 to come down to law enforcement deciding to do their 324 00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:46,559 job and get collaborative with people in Maryland, North Carolina, 325 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,680 maybe even South Carolina, maybe Delaware, who knows. It's a 326 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,880 little frightening and daunting to think about. 327 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 4: There's no question in my mind that Wilmer is responsible 328 00:17:57,079 --> 00:18:00,680 for more than just the four homicides he's linked to 329 00:18:01,079 --> 00:18:04,039 via DNA, So I think there's a lot more here, 330 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,279 and Christian, you're absolutely right. If law enforcement steps up 331 00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:10,200 and does their job, we should be learning more about 332 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,839 other horrific situations that Wilmer has found himself in, and 333 00:18:15,279 --> 00:18:18,640 he has created just a series of unsolved murders that 334 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,920 we think extends far beyond the four that are currently 335 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,240 linked via DNA. 336 00:18:23,759 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: To that end, here, Bill, let me go ahead and 337 00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:31,079 ask you, very specifically a question from Kathy over on 338 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,440 Colonial Parkway murders. And we're going to bounce back and 339 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,519 forth between our platforms for the rest of this episode 340 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,839 asking questions because we get them from multiple people. We 341 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,480 can't get to all of them today, but we will 342 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,599 try so Kathy asks, does Bill feel that Wilmer is 343 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,559 the one responsible for his sister's murder. I'll go ahead 344 00:18:48,599 --> 00:18:50,160 and just let you speak directly to that. 345 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 3: Bill. 346 00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 4: That's a tough one, Kathy. It's something I think about 347 00:18:53,759 --> 00:18:56,880 a lot. I think there's a very good possibility that 348 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:02,119 Alan Wade Wilmer Senior is responsible for most, or perhaps all, 349 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,799 of what we call the Colonial Parkway murders, So that 350 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:08,720 would include Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski. There's so much 351 00:19:08,759 --> 00:19:11,839 about Kathy and Becky's murder that is a really good 352 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,720 fit for Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. And I'm not taking 353 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,400 his older brother, Keith Wilmer off the list either. We 354 00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:25,440 know that Wilmer's responsible for incident number two, that is 355 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,680 the murder of Robin Edwards and David Nobling, and he's 356 00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:32,359 very closely linked to incident number three, the disappearance of 357 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,799 Keith Colincusandra Haley. One outlier, at least in my mind 358 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,480 at this moment, without more evidence, particularly forensic evidence, Incident 359 00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:45,519 number four, the murder of Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower, 360 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,160 feels like a good fit to me. Wilmer would have 361 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,880 been driving past that area of Interstate sixty four quite 362 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,240 likely if he was going back and forth between his 363 00:19:56,319 --> 00:20:00,519 home base in Lancaster down to the Peninsula air near 364 00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:03,319 where Kristin lives. So I think there's a very strong 365 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,160 possibility he may be responsible for Kathy and Becky's murder. 366 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,319 I think that's the best I can give you right now, Kathy, let's. 367 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:17,799 Speaker 1: See here, We've got a question for rum Naomi on 368 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:23,119 Colonial Parkway murders. Naomi says, this situation with COTIS is frustrating. 369 00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:27,279 Is there any mechanism whereby a close relative of Wilmer 370 00:20:27,319 --> 00:20:31,680 could voluntarily provide a DNA sample to be matched against cotis? 371 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,000 Are there any groups of linked DNA profiles from an 372 00:20:35,079 --> 00:20:39,440 unknown purp on COTIS where Wilmer could be a reasonable suspect. 373 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,640 These are good questions, but I'm not sure we have 374 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:42,920 the information for this. 375 00:20:43,279 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 4: I can provide some information. We've talked to a number 376 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,960 of experts about CODIS and whether or not we would 377 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:55,200 have to change the law in Virginia so that Wilmer, 378 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,440 who's never been convicted of a crime and died at 379 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,440 the end of twenty seventeen, if his DNA could be 380 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,000 put into the CODAS system It's not a simple thing, 381 00:21:05,279 --> 00:21:07,759 and that may be frustrating for a lot of us, 382 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,319 myself included, but that's the reality of the situation. We 383 00:21:11,319 --> 00:21:14,759 were told by the FBI two years ago when they 384 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:20,240 rated the Wilmer Holmes Plural, that Keith Wilmer, the brother 385 00:21:20,319 --> 00:21:23,680 who died at the end of April now twenty twenty five, 386 00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:26,920 so he's deceased as well. We were told that Keith 387 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,359 Wilmer had voluntarily given his DNA to law enforcement, and 388 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,640 I have no reason to not believe law enforcement that 389 00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:39,599 this happened. So I think they have Keith Wilmer his 390 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,720 brother's DNA. Beyond that, I'm not aware of any logical 391 00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:47,200 reason why they would need DNA from anyone else. They 392 00:21:47,279 --> 00:21:50,839 have the late Allen Wade Wilmer seniors DNA, and they 393 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,920 have his older brother, William Keith Wilmer's DNA. Those samples 394 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,160 should probably give them enough to be able to create 395 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,240 a good working plile and check unsolved cases against the 396 00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:04,640 two brothers DNA. 397 00:22:05,319 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: We've got another question here from Blaane, not our Blaine 398 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,279 part oh, but another Blaine, also on Colonial Parkway murders. 399 00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:20,720 Have Wilmer's family members mentioned any hindsight, inklings of weird 400 00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:24,599 behaviors or events that now make more sense. I do 401 00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:28,519 want to mention because we are bringing in Wilmer's family, 402 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,839 I want to again reiterate to everybody that his family 403 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,480 has been nothing but helpful and they have been very 404 00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:39,319 straightforward and forthcoming with law enforcement. That said, I don't 405 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,000 necessarily think that we are in a position where we 406 00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:44,759 can speak for the family. We would rather if they're 407 00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:47,799 going to speak, they speak for themselves. But Bill, I 408 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,559 know that you have spent a little bit more time 409 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,519 with them than I have. So do you feel like 410 00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:54,599 you want to speak to that or shall we let 411 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,160 that be something the family discusses on their own, at 412 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:57,720 their own time. 413 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,279 Speaker 4: I want to be careful because I don't want to 414 00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:03,920 break confidence. I'll take it this far. I think in 415 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,680 my conversations with members of the Wilmer family, they were 416 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,880 shocked by this news. They had not seen this side 417 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,480 of Alan Wade Wilmer, the serial killer of this person. 418 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,240 From my discussions with the members of the Wilmer family, 419 00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:24,920 that side is just not evident to them. He was married, young, 420 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,839 had two kids, worked hard to provide for his family 421 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,799 as a waterman, and then later with his tree service. 422 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,000 They didn't see a dark or violent side. He wasn't 423 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:41,880 abusive to his family, So I don't think there's anything there. 424 00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:42,319 Speaker 3: Now. 425 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,759 Speaker 4: I can ask them again. We don't talk all the time, 426 00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:48,599 but we have talked from time to time. I can 427 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,279 ask them again, But based on the conversations I've had 428 00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:53,839 with them so far, I would say, no, there's nothing 429 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,839 that I'm aware of or that they've told me about 430 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,799 that would indicate in retrospect some dark impulse on the 431 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,480 part of Allan Wade Wilmer Senior. And I totally agree 432 00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:08,160 with your point, Kristen. Please, let's not beat the Wilmer 433 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,359 family up anymore than they have themselves. They have been 434 00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:17,440 fully cooperative with law enforcement. They are truly shocked finding 435 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,640 this out, and they're just trying to keep it together 436 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,799 moving forward. And you can't blame his ex wife or 437 00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:27,480 his kids. And by the way, as a reminder, his 438 00:24:27,599 --> 00:24:30,119 kids were eight and ten years old at the time 439 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,480 of the Colonial Parkway murders, so they were literally little 440 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,160 kids and they would have essentially no knowledge of anything 441 00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:40,799 that their father was into. The parents were divorced, they 442 00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:43,839 stayed in touch because of the kids. When he moved 443 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,880 down to Hampton. As they put it, he seems to 444 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,480 have gotten into some really horrible stuff that they knew 445 00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:50,079 nothing about. 446 00:24:50,599 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: Also think it's important to mention that because we do 447 00:24:54,039 --> 00:24:57,960 have people who are listening who not only knew the Wilmers, 448 00:24:58,319 --> 00:25:01,640 are friends with them, or just live in the same area, 449 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,720 we are going to encourage people. The Wilmers have asked 450 00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:09,359 for privacy, and the last statement that they made at 451 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,400 Lorian Powell's press conference, they have asked for privacy in 452 00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:16,039 the wake of this news, and so we are going 453 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,160 to ask for people to give them the same thing. 454 00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:22,960 We understand that people want information. It is an intriguing 455 00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:25,400 question to ask what did they know? Did they have 456 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,119 any idea? But if they want to tell their story, 457 00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:31,640 they will tell it, and they will tell it in 458 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,359 their own time and on their own terms. No one 459 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:39,640 needs owed information about anything in this case, not the 460 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,200 stories of the victims, and not the stories as related 461 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,960 to the killer's family. So we are going to ask 462 00:25:46,039 --> 00:25:49,039 people please make sure that you give the Wilmers the 463 00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:51,759 privacy that they deserve. They did not ask to be 464 00:25:51,839 --> 00:25:56,200 a part of this, and so information attempting to give 465 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,759 out information such as where they live, attempting to provide 466 00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:03,279 for their information in an online forum or even just 467 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,200 speaking for them. It's not appropriate and it's not appreciated, 468 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,839 and if we do see it on our forums, we 469 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,160 will be deleting those comments and banning those individuals. It's 470 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,519 not appropriate. They didn't ask for this. 471 00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:20,519 Speaker 4: You're listening to mindover Murder. We'll be right back after 472 00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:28,480 this word from our sponsors. We're back here at mindover Murder. 473 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,960 One thing I will push back on, though, is after 474 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,599 the news broke that the Virginia State Police and all 475 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,359 credit to them, had connected Alan Widwilmer Sr. To Lorient 476 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,279 Powell's death through testing her rape cap. There were hundreds 477 00:26:46,279 --> 00:26:49,079 of comments on social media, not just on our platforms, 478 00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:53,559 but all of the local radio and television and newspaper 479 00:26:54,039 --> 00:26:58,160 reports all had coverage, and many of them have Facebook 480 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,920 and other social media pages, and so people commented. One 481 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,119 thing I really pushed back on, and you'll note that 482 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:10,160 other Colonial Parkway murders family members did too, was some 483 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,599 people were laying it on awfully thick from my perspective, 484 00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:19,400 saying things like the Wilmer family has suffered enough. This 485 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,759 sort of thing doesn't belong on social media. And this 486 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,400 was multiple comments, mostly folks from Lancaster County, Virginia. I 487 00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:32,039 get it, and these people know and support the Wilmers. 488 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,319 I get that too. But you saw comments from a 489 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,119 number of our friends and colleagues who are also Colonial 490 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,119 Parkway murders families, and I chimed in as well, You've 491 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,759 got to be kidding. We have been suffering with these 492 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,000 losses for up to thirty nine years, so it's a 493 00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:56,200 thirty six to thirty nine year wait for answers. At 494 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:01,960 this point. We're not saying anything bad about the Wilmer family. 495 00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:07,039 We're not attacking the Wilmer family. But us asking for questions, 496 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,839 looking for answers, and trying to keep people talking about 497 00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:18,119 the Colonial Parkway murders is completely and totally within our rights. Yeah, 498 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,839 and my heart goes out to the Wilmer family. These 499 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,079 last two years have got to have been incredibly difficult, 500 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,359 and no one wants to find out that their family 501 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,119 member is a serial killer and probably killed far more 502 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,440 than the four people that have been identified as his victims. 503 00:28:35,759 --> 00:28:39,039 But if you think we're going to stop asking questions, 504 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,920 you got another thing coming. And no one's putting down 505 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,200 the Wilmer family. By doing so, we have every right 506 00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:50,400 to ask these questions, and something that Kristin and I 507 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,079 have talked about a lot offline. Every single time there's 508 00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:58,119 a significant development in the Colonial Parkway murders, which we welcome. 509 00:28:58,279 --> 00:28:59,880 And we can give a lot of credit to the 510 00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:04,279 Virginia State Police for the news about Loriente Powell's murder 511 00:29:04,319 --> 00:29:08,000 and the connection to the Colonial Parkway murders. People come 512 00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:11,039 out of the woodwork every single time. I can't tell 513 00:29:11,079 --> 00:29:14,440 you why this is, but it just is. And some 514 00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:19,039 of those people actually have new information, which is very beneficial, 515 00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:21,079 and we try to get those people to talk to 516 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,200 law enforcement and we'll pass along tips to law enforcement ourselves. 517 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,640 We've done it many times. This pattern has been going 518 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,200 on for years. Like I said, I can't explain why 519 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,240 they're doing it, but they are and we appreciate it. 520 00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:38,559 People come forward, Many of them didn't realize that something 521 00:29:38,599 --> 00:29:42,720 that happened thirty forty years ago now was significant. Perhaps 522 00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:46,519 people are asking new questions or just talking about the 523 00:29:46,559 --> 00:29:50,000 case again. So people have come forward, and that's actually 524 00:29:50,079 --> 00:29:52,599 a good thing. None of this is intended to cause 525 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,039 pain to the Wilmer family. If anyone who listens to 526 00:29:57,079 --> 00:29:59,880 this podcast must have figured out by now we're not 527 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,240 going away and we're not going to stop asking questions, 528 00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:06,480 because there's a lot of unanswered questions at this point. 529 00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: I think this is one of those aspects of a 530 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,039 true crime investigation that doesn't get focused on in documentaries, 531 00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:18,119 in dateline episodes and so on and so forth, the 532 00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:22,000 fact that one it never really ends for the victims, 533 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,960 for the survivors or the family members, and it always 534 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,200 comes up again in new ways and old ways. When 535 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,960 there's a chase development, people come out of the woodwork. 536 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:37,000 Like you said, it disrupts holidays, it disrupts family time. 537 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,799 As soon as we knew that something was coming down 538 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,400 the pike, and as soon as we knew that there 539 00:30:43,519 --> 00:30:46,960 was going to be press conference with new information, you 540 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,559 and I both know to just brace for impact and 541 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,640 know that it's going to impact our days, whether that 542 00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:56,920 is our jobs, our family life, and whatever else. We 543 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,519 don't ask, for example, for you to have to drop 544 00:30:59,559 --> 00:31:03,400 everything and try five hundred miles from Connecticut to Virginia 545 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,480 to meet with people and answer questions and do investigative stuff, 546 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,319 but it happens. I think that people who are used 547 00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:13,640 to getting their true crime content through documentaries in podcasts, 548 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,119 but have never lived it. Don't understand that the day 549 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,319 to day reality of it is it never leaves, not ever. 550 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,519 The Wilmer family is going to have to live with 551 00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:25,480 this for the rest of their lives, just like you 552 00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:29,000 are now. Because I involved myself with us ten years ago, 553 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,359 I live it too. This is it's a choice on 554 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,880 my part. It's voluntary, and I wouldn't ask for a 555 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,799 minute to take it back. But it lives with you 556 00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:40,039 and it wears on you. I think it's hard for 557 00:31:40,079 --> 00:31:42,640 people to understand that when you get involved, you're in 558 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,240 it up to your neck. 559 00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 3: For good and for the rest of your life. 560 00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:49,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're in it, and there is no way for 561 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,720 you to ever not be in it. Our big hope 562 00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:54,480 right now is that we shouldn't get through the holidays 563 00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:58,359 without there being a major upset or breakthrough, and that 564 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,240 we can all actually take some time off chill because 565 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,279 I know that you've done more than your fair share 566 00:32:03,319 --> 00:32:06,960 of driving over the last couple of weeks, and we've 567 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,680 both spent plenty of time on the phone. We're ready 568 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,279 to take a little bit of time off here. 569 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,759 Speaker 3: What other questions let's see, Oh, we have so many. 570 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,119 Speaker 1: Okay, so somebody had asked about and this should tell 571 00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:23,440 you where we are. Also, somebody had asked a question, 572 00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:27,119 what about Richard Wade Hall? And because I'm in frazzled 573 00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:30,559 teacher at the end of the semester mode, I forgot 574 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,640 what name that pertained to. And I actually had to ask, 575 00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:36,680 can you ask this person? Can you please clarify? I 576 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,160 don't know who this is? And they were like, heyeah, 577 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,880 that's Wilmer's younger cousin. And I was like, oh my god. 578 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,640 There are so many names and faces here. It's actually 579 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,440 hard to keep track. I'm gonna have to start keeping 580 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,519 a notebook just like you. The question is essentially, what 581 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,440 do we know about Richard Wade Hall? So can you 582 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,000 give everybody a little bit of clarification on who that 583 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,519 is and what do we know about any connection between them? 584 00:33:02,839 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 4: I get a couple of different versions of this. Richard 585 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,440 Wade Hall, I am told is a cousin to the 586 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,640 Wilmer family and very oddly, just after the raid at 587 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,359 the Wilmer family homes. That's Holmes plural, and this would 588 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,720 have been two and a half years ago, just after 589 00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:25,640 that raid. Richard Wade Hall who had suffered with some 590 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,960 mental health issues and other things. He lived in the 591 00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:34,119 Lancaster County area. He maybe one county over, was also 592 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,599 involved in working with Waterman, had his own small business. 593 00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:43,480 He committed suicide almost immediately after the raids. A number 594 00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:46,839 of people thought that was very strange, and I am 595 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,759 among those people. One version of the story that we 596 00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:54,599 heard about these trips up into Maryland, which may have 597 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,680 been Alan Wade, Wilmer and others up to no good, 598 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,559 includes Richard Wade Hall. Now I don't know that for 599 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,880 a fact, but we've heard it a lot. There was 600 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,400 some pushback. Right after mister Hall passed away. He had 601 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,760 committed suicide. He killed himself in his garage. There was 602 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,280 a cryptic suicide note, as I understand it, that made 603 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,559 reference to the fact that he was into some things 604 00:34:19,559 --> 00:34:20,840 that he shouldn't have been into. 605 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:22,119 Speaker 3: I don't know. 606 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:26,559 Speaker 4: I've never heard much further about it. It has never 607 00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:30,039 sat well with me. I think that his death and 608 00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:33,599 his life in the years prior to his death definitely 609 00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:36,679 need more exploration. I'm not saying the man's a murderer 610 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,400 or anything like that, but I have heard a lot 611 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,760 of very strange rumors about Richard Wade Hall. 612 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: Next question is from Sandy. She says, the last time 613 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,679 Cassandra and Keith were seen at the party, were there 614 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,360 any searches done in that immediate area, how far from 615 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,719 the party was the water and were any parking areas 616 00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:01,760 nearby near the water. 617 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,159 Speaker 4: There's a lot to this, given how difficult it is 618 00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:10,639 to get the FBI to respond to questions. We've asked 619 00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:14,320 these kind of questions a number of times and never 620 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,440 gotten satisfactory answers. First of all, there is water close 621 00:35:18,559 --> 00:35:23,159 to the Christopher Newport University and the University Square apartments 622 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,320 where the party took place. For those of you that 623 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:27,920 live there, there's water everywhere. 624 00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: I was just thinking you there's water everywhere in Crystal, Virginia. 625 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,519 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. 626 00:35:34,559 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 1: And is it immediately adjacent to the water. 627 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,599 Speaker 4: No, But is there water a couple of miles away, 628 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,360 creeks and inlets that are fairly close. And there are 629 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,679 a number of places where couples would go to be 630 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,000 romantic fairly close to the University Square apartments, again, within 631 00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:54,119 a couple of miles. I've had local folks walk me 632 00:35:54,199 --> 00:35:56,519 through on maps where they used to go when they 633 00:35:56,559 --> 00:36:00,199 were teenagers and where the big makeout spots were, where 634 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,440 those areas searched. Real hard to get a straight answer 635 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,880 out of the FBI. I shrugged my shoulders. I want 636 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,679 to think that there were searches conducted, but I have 637 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,480 no way of knowing that, and they will not answer 638 00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:14,719 these questions. As infuriating as that might be. 639 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: Brandy asks, what what has made Wilmer stop attacking and 640 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,360 murdering young people or couples? If his last known attack 641 00:36:21,559 --> 00:36:24,800 was in the late nineties, seems someone like him wouldn't 642 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,679 have been able to stop if he died in twenty 643 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,199 seventeen and was possibly ill the last few years of 644 00:36:29,199 --> 00:36:31,519 his life. Is it feasible to think he continued to 645 00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:34,280 kill into the early to mid two thousands and those 646 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,440 cases just aren't known. 647 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 4: Yet entirely possible from what we've been told, And again 648 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,960 we've talked to some of the leading experts in the 649 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:48,000 field about serial killers and how every serial killer is different. 650 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,000 As we understand it, Sometimes serial killers do slow down 651 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,920 as they get a bit older. They will move away 652 00:36:56,159 --> 00:37:00,360 from killing or take long breaks from murders, and there's 653 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:06,199 any number of people. BTK is one terrific example that 654 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,880 we've explored before Lennie Franklin from Los Angeles was known 655 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,039 as the Grim Sleeper because that case seemed to be 656 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,760 very active. For a while, he was killing sex workers 657 00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:20,840 and dumping their bodies in alleys throughout south central Los Angeles, 658 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,400 and then the murders appeared to stop, and then they 659 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,719 started up again, and that's where the name the grim 660 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,280 Sleeper came from. So we've seen this happen a lot. 661 00:37:29,639 --> 00:37:32,840 I don't think that Wilmer's last kill was in nineteen 662 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,000 eighty nine, when the Colonial Parkway murders appeared to stop. 663 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,639 I think he continued far beyond that point. I think 664 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,480 the question is a really good one, Brandy. I think 665 00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:47,440 it's easily possible that he was killing into the two thousands. 666 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,039 Speaker 1: Brandy references the last known attack in the late nineties, 667 00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:54,400 and I'm wondering if she's referencing the Amber lungering case 668 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,679 in ninety seven in Asheville, North Carolina. While the suspects 669 00:37:58,679 --> 00:38:01,559 sketch and the truck sketch in that case look very 670 00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:05,239 similar to Wilmer, that has not been confirmed in any way, 671 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,000 shape or form. That is only our speculation that he 672 00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:10,880 might be involved, So we can't technically say it was 673 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,119 his last known attack. The last connected attack via DNA 674 00:38:16,199 --> 00:38:19,599 to Wilmer is nineteen eighty nine murder of Terry Howell 675 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,559 in Hampton. Like Bill has said, I think it's entirely 676 00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:27,039 possible that there are many more cases. It's just going 677 00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:30,519 to take people going through, pulling up those cold case 678 00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:33,400 files and saying, hey, what is there that we can test, 679 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,199 what is there that we can timeline out, and what 680 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,079 is there that we think he might be good for. 681 00:38:38,519 --> 00:38:41,519 And I mean, we're doing this independently, but we're not investigators. 682 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:43,800 I am trying to build a timeline on this guy, 683 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,079 and I would love to see what actual investigators with 684 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,719 real access to crime scene files can come up with. 685 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,079 I'm not an investigator. I'm just an overworked high school teacher. 686 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,880 But I think it's going to be fascinating once someone 687 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,440 actually sits down and manages to timeline this guy out 688 00:38:59,480 --> 00:38:59,920 all the way. 689 00:39:00,599 --> 00:39:02,079 Speaker 3: FBI, we're looking at you. 690 00:39:02,599 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, or VSP has done an excellent job with this 691 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,559 case so far, and I would really like to see 692 00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:11,599 them continue to run with it. I think, really, let's 693 00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:13,719 go ahead and get into the heart of what everybody 694 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,480 seems to want to know right now. 695 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,159 Speaker 3: Because we've been teasing it. 696 00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:19,159 Speaker 1: A little bit. So that means we're going to get 697 00:39:19,159 --> 00:39:22,480 into some of our questions from Robert, one of our 698 00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:28,599 original and very wonderful fans. Robert offers five questions. They're 699 00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:30,920 all connected to each other, so let's dig on in. 700 00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:33,679 Robert says, I really want to hear your working theory 701 00:39:33,679 --> 00:39:37,039 on a potential Wilmer round Little Liberty Security connection. How 702 00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:40,000 are you connecting the dots in your head? And I 703 00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:42,880 think again it's a good idea, just to remind people 704 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,000 that we are not investigators. This is supposition. Please take 705 00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:50,039 this as a theory rather than anything that has been 706 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,960 acknowledged by law enforcement, because it hasn't. Bill, you want 707 00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:54,599 to lay it out. 708 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, this one gets a little dicey. We believe we're 709 00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:04,119 seeing some can connections between Wilmer and Little. We don't 710 00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:08,400 want to get ahead of ourselves, but we are exploring 711 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,880 potential connections between Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, who's been linked 712 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,440 to four homicides in this series, and Ron Little, who 713 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,960 we think now co owned Liberty Security later called Advanced Security. 714 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,039 At this point, you can't ignore the fact that, Okay, 715 00:40:25,159 --> 00:40:28,519 four of these people are linked to Wilmer, but three 716 00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:34,280 of them are also connected to Liberty Security. Robin Edwards's mother, Bonnie, 717 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,159 worked at Liberty Security and her date that night, David 718 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,280 Nobling was killed with her. He has no personal connection 719 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,079 to Liberty Security. And now we have Lori Anne Powell 720 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,639 has been linked to Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, and she 721 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,920 worked for Liberty Security. And of course we've also talked 722 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,239 about Brian Pettinger, who also worked at Liberty Security, and 723 00:40:55,519 --> 00:40:59,480 Kristen actually has opined that she's hoping that if we 724 00:40:59,519 --> 00:41:01,760 are able to solve that case, that there'll be a 725 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,440 link there from Brian Pettinger to Liberty Security as well. 726 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,159 A professional one exists, but we think it's quite possible 727 00:41:10,159 --> 00:41:13,519 that they are responsible or somehow connected to his death. 728 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,760 We think logically you can't ignore this. Four people are 729 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,800 linked to Wilmer, three of them, three of the victims 730 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,239 are also linked to run Little in Liberty Security. So 731 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,920 we're trying to put that together, and obviously the more 732 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,320 we learn, we're going to be going back to law 733 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,639 enforcement with this new information. People are definitely picking up 734 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,719 on what we're putting down here. I've likened it to 735 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:43,239 breadcrumbs a bit that's probably all we'll say for now, 736 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,599 but this is something we're definitely working on, and we 737 00:41:46,639 --> 00:41:50,000 are planning to take this to law enforcement once we 738 00:41:50,079 --> 00:41:51,559 have something more concrete. 739 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,119 Speaker 1: Okay, then Robert's question continues exactly where you just left off. 740 00:41:56,159 --> 00:41:58,880 Three of Wilmer's four victims have some degree of connection 741 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:03,119 to Liberty Security. If the Pettenger and call Haley cases 742 00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:05,800 are eventually tied to Wilmer, even more victims will have 743 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,559 a connection to that company. Does this make you rethink 744 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,719 whether these are actually crimes of opportunity or do you 745 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,039 think there's a chance these were more planned and premeditated 746 00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:20,960 attacks committed with the intention of targeting a specific victim 747 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,960 due to their connection to Liberty Security. 748 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,639 Speaker 4: I guess my answer is probably both. When we had 749 00:42:28,679 --> 00:42:32,639 a very interesting interview and podcast a couple of weeks 750 00:42:32,679 --> 00:42:37,840 ago with our former FBI agents on the Cold Red podcast, 751 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,920 which is very much worth listening to, and oh, totally, 752 00:42:41,039 --> 00:42:43,039 the two of them are brilliant and we learned something 753 00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:45,920 every single time we talk with them. Fitz and Ray 754 00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:50,039 both said, you can be more than one thing at 755 00:42:50,079 --> 00:42:54,000 a time. He may be focused on couples, but there 756 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,679 may be opportunities that are presented where there's a single woman, 757 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:04,000 for example, Teresa lynd Spa Howell or Lorienne Powell. They 758 00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:07,079 seem to be and I think this is probably fair. 759 00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:10,000 I think these are both single women who are in 760 00:43:10,039 --> 00:43:14,519 a very vulnerable situation. It's late at night, they've both 761 00:43:14,559 --> 00:43:19,320 been drinking. Lauren Powell has a fight with her boyfriend 762 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,239 Chris Cutler. He drops her off on lonely stretch of road. 763 00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:26,559 I recently toured that lonely stretch of road with our 764 00:43:26,559 --> 00:43:32,360 friends from Gloucester County, the same situation. It's not dissimilar 765 00:43:32,639 --> 00:43:36,159 with Teresa Howell. She's out at the after hours club, 766 00:43:36,199 --> 00:43:39,559 the Zodiac Club. She's likely had a lot to drink, 767 00:43:39,639 --> 00:43:43,880 and Wilmer either connects with her inside or outside the club. 768 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,000 We heard a very chilling story recently of someone who 769 00:43:47,079 --> 00:43:50,519 said that Wilmer had followed them from one club to 770 00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:54,679 another and ran into this woman in the parking lot 771 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,840 and called her by name. So he's engaging in stalking 772 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:04,119 behavior out question. We think that with Wilmer, he's focused 773 00:44:04,159 --> 00:44:07,280 on couples, but he's also more than willing to attack 774 00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:11,400 single women's He's got this varied again. 775 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,599 Speaker 1: As Fitz called him, he is an apex predator, and 776 00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:19,559 I think in adding to that, he is an opportunistic 777 00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:24,280 offender when he can't find what his preference is. We 778 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:29,199 don't really know yet what his preference is. Is it couples, 779 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,000 is it women that he can assault? What is it? 780 00:44:33,079 --> 00:44:36,119 Precisely that we know, because right at this point we 781 00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:40,079 have Robin Edwards and David Knobling, a couple, they were 782 00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:45,480 certainly together. We have Lrien Powell, we have Thereesa Howell. 783 00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:49,079 So we've got one couple, two single victims. You bring 784 00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:53,519 in Cal Haley, that's two couples, two single victims. If 785 00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:56,719 you add in Brian Pettinger, two couples, three single victims. 786 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,119 And then if you add in Pettenger, that makes the 787 00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:01,280 mix a little in interesting because that would be the 788 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,079 first time he's attacked a solo male. And then that 789 00:45:04,159 --> 00:45:06,760 brings in a whole other set of questions that someone 790 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,760 had asked about sexual assault with regard to a male victim, 791 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,079 And we have no way of knowing where the investigation 792 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,239 is into Brian or whether Brian will even be linked. 793 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,760 At this point, I was watching an episode of Criminal Minds, 794 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,679 as one does, while I was sitting in grading and 795 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,280 The name of the episode was called Omnivore, and the 796 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:34,119 Aaron Hotchner character was describing a offender very similar to Wilmer, 797 00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:39,480 someone who does not have a specific group that he targets. Instead, 798 00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:44,119 this killer was targeting both couples and single victims essentially, 799 00:45:44,159 --> 00:45:47,440 and so he called him an omnivore. He said, whoever 800 00:45:47,519 --> 00:45:50,119 he can get his hands on at any given time, 801 00:45:50,559 --> 00:45:52,519 And I think that might be an appropriate way to 802 00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:56,199 describe Wilmer. I think we just don't know enough yet 803 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,199 about the range of his crimes to be able to 804 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,159 ascribe to him. He's solely a couple killer with a 805 00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:07,239 couple of single victim outliers or what maybe the couples 806 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,519 themselves were an outlier. Again, we don't know how many 807 00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:13,679 people this man has killed. I think that as more 808 00:46:13,679 --> 00:46:15,679 and more comes out, we're then going to be able 809 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,400 to refine the profile on him. But right now we 810 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,079 really don't have a good way to know. These are 811 00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:25,519 such amazing questions, and we are getting such a good 812 00:46:25,639 --> 00:46:28,559 conversation rolling here that we are going to stop this 813 00:46:28,679 --> 00:46:31,800 episode right here, but keep rolling right into the next one. 814 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,360 So for now we are going to go ahead and 815 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,400 say thank you to everybody who wrote in for questions, 816 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,719 and if you didn't hear your question in this episode, 817 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,239 stay tuned for the next one. You'll probably hear it there. 818 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,079 For now, thank you so much for listening to this 819 00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:48,159 episode of mind Over Murder. We'll see you next time. 820 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,280 Speaker 5: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 821 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:02,800 Another Dog Productions. 822 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 4: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 823 00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 5: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 824 00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:12,159 Speaker 4: Our theme music is by Kevin McCloud. 825 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,760 Speaker 5: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. 826 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,559 Speaker 4: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 827 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,360 Speaker 5: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 828 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,320 Murders on Facebook. 829 00:47:25,039 --> 00:47:28,039 Speaker 4: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 830 00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:29,719 Bill Thomas five six. 831 00:47:30,199 --> 00:47:33,280 Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.