Speaker 1: There is a huge and uncomfortable topic that's part of
modern society, and it's about same sex attraction, same sex marriage.
And it's hurtful because I think all of us have
friends or family who are same sex attracted, and they
are being taught that if we do not agree that
same sex attraction is sponsored by God, then either we
serve a hateful Gods or we ourselves are hateful. More
of disconcernedly to me, is the rapid attack on the
Biblical view, attempting to obsuvate it and confuse it, and
some of it's pretty sophisticated. I'm reading an article called
Future Church Now by Grimy Cornington, and I wanted to
bring my friends and pastor Jim Pupman into approach this
article and the entire topic with us. We'll do this
with the help of Visible website is go visible dot
com and with God Almighty.
Speaker 2: But Todd Herman show is one hundred percent disapproved by
big pharma technocrats in tyron sebriant ware from the high
mountains of Free America. Here's the Emerald City EXI Todd
to her Man.
Speaker 1: Today is the day the Lord has made, and these
are the times to which God has decided we shall live.
And my friend and pastor Jim Putman joins me, almost
color coordinated.
Speaker 3: We got the gray. I just didn't bring my Cabella's hat.
Welcome in. Good to see you, my friend, to see you.
Speaker 1: This is a hurtful topic for people. It's hard for
me to talk about. I wish you didn't have to
discuss it because they know it hurts people.
Speaker 3: Do you ever get hurt?
Speaker 1: Do you ever feel hurt in your heart from having
to speak God's word this way?
Speaker 3: Well, what bothers me is how people hear it the
Bible right now, there's such confusion about what love is. Right,
love affirms no matter what, and that's not what fan thirteen.
You know, God's definition of love is love agapata is
an act of the will right, and it's a decision,
and it's patient. It's kind, yes, but it notices you
get down into that passage, it says love does not
rejoice with unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. So true
love doesn't say, hey, anything you do or want to
do is okay. Real friendship is not backing somebody's play.
In fact, the Bible says wounds of a friend can
be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses. Enemy tells you
what you want to hear. So and we acknowledge that
I don't say to my kid, hey, I love you,
and which means I'll affirm your decision to go do
something terrible to yourself. No, I love you whether you
do it or you don't do it. But real love
it's unconditional. But that doesn't mean that I say whatever
you're doing is okay. So, like you know, I loved
my son when he was a drug addict. I loved
him enough to say this is wrong. It's hurting you.
I'm not just going to stand by and let it happen,
because real love backs your play no matter what. That's
not real love. So the question is if God's word
says something to be true. Real love tells you that
what you're doing is contrary to God's will for you.
And God's will for you is good. His word is
life and good, and what you're choosing to do is
going to hurt you, hurts others, and it hurt your body.
God knows how he made you. He knows what's good
for your body and what isn't what's good for your mind,
what's good for others around you. He actually loves others
around you. For you to go in sin, it hurts you.
It's not how God made you. It has impact, but
it also sets the stage for someone else to be
okay to go sin too. So it's a complex issue,
and I think so many people have Empathy is not
to say what you're doing is okay. It's to go. Man.
I understand you are struggling. I care about you. This
hurts you. I'm sorry that you have that attraction you
wish you didn't have. I have attractions I wish I
didn't have, and they drive me crazy. I hate them.
Just because I have an attraction doesn't mean it's good
I have it. I'm falling short of the glory of God.
I have enemy, my flesh, my experiences. I have to
say no to different attractions than other people have. Not
everybody has the same attractions. But we have to go
what does God's word say is good and right and good?
And then we have to say no to the things
that he disapproves of.
Speaker 1: There's a company called Angel Studios that's done something for
Christians that I didn't think I would live to see
and live through this This is a massive, massive moment.
Hollywood has hated Christians for a very long time. There's
been active hatred, there's been sort of underground hatred. But
Christians are blocked from being involved in the movie process
for a grew great degree unless you make it big
and then announce your Christian like Mark Wahlberg has done
some other actors have done recently.
Speaker 3: Praise God for that.
Speaker 1: But Angel Studios is giving you and I a doorway
into Hollywood. That is not something that's easy to achieve.
They've done this the hard way, against headwinds and against
efforts to stop it and censor it and in fact
to keep it out of theaters. They released the movie
Sound of Freedom, and you know what that did. Recently,
they had a very successful theatrical run with a movie
this completely different than the Sound of Freedom.
Speaker 3: It's great.
Speaker 1: It's called The King of Kings. It's an animated movie.
It's based upon Charles Dickens and he's telling his son
the story of Jesus Christ and is told in such
a way that you and your family, your kids, your
grandkids are going to be transported.
Speaker 3: With this little boy.
Speaker 1: And he's kind of a jerk, honestly, At the beginning
of the movie, he's obsessed with King Arthur. He wants
to cut everything's heads off, and he goes around with
this very annoying cat. But throughout the film they all change,
and the little boy starts to regard his sword a
little bit differently. Towards the end of the movie, he
regards it, frankly as trash, something to be tossed aside
in favor of the Lord Jesus. The movie did very
well in the theaters, but you can't watch it right
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once in a lifetime. Go take Hollywood back. Angel dot
com slash Todd. Let's start at a big picture level here,
because they're multifaceted attacks.
Speaker 3: Because some of them we.
Speaker 1: Can utterly discount that the hardcore leftist churches or sometimes
called the gay Gospel, I refer to them as a
sexual left because it's all tied into politics. We can
completely dismiss people who are saying that Jesus was same
sex attractors. Jesus was confused about his gender. This is
what I've heard recently, when Jesus said, who am I
and her? I've heard this. We can dismiss that as nonsense.
It is blasphemy and it could put you in hell,
and so we can dismiss it for now, but eventually
it's going to land with people. So let's get down
to a level that is harder to dismiss. So let's
start with his generality. And this is from this book
or this this article, really long, intense article and well written.
I disagree with it, but I think well written Future
Church Now by A. Greem Corrington. And a big picture
argument he makes is the Bible does not address loving,
monogamous same sex union or what he would call marriage.
It only addresses predatory or overtly simply lustful you know,
the Roman bass things, or the use of young boy
slaveries for sexual pleasure. That it doesn't address that. And
therefore he says, when Paul and others are writing against
same sex activity, that's what they mean.
Speaker 3: They don't mean a loving couple. Yeah, that's absolutely false, right,
because in the New Testament the scriptures will say things
like no one who is born of God continues in sin. Right,
it doesn't actually and explicitly say what sin he's talking about.
It's referring to sin. Well, where are the definitions of
sin coming from the Old Testament? Right? The Old Testament
tells us sin Leviticus in the law do not lie
with a man as you would with the woman. Right,
it tells you bestiality is sin. It tells you the
standards of God in those passages of scripture. Now those
standards continue on. Now there is a new covenant, right,
there is a new covenant that says the law, the
standards of righteousness are the same. But how they're taken
care of is not through the sacrifice of lambs and goats.
How they're taken care of is through the blood of Christ.
And Jesus died. Those sins had required a sacrifice. Jesus
died for those things. He paid, He's the lamb of God.
He paid for them. And now that we know that
they were detestable enough to God that Jesus had to
die for them, how can we live them any longer?
Roman Sick says, we've been baptized into Christ. Should we say,
now that we have grace we should continue to sin?
He says, by no means you died to sin. You
can't live in any longer. No one is born of
God continues in sin because from God's you've repented. You're
like God's perspective is right. No matter what I feel,
I'm in a broken world, a broken body. I have
a sin nature. It's not the same for everybody, but
we all have one. And giving into my sin nature
hurts me, hurts others hurts God. It's a rebellion against
God as king. And Jesus paid for those things. But
now I see those things differently. They hurt me, they
hurt others as or repentance to the heart. Therefore, I
don't want to do them. I can't continue to do
them when I know what they cost. But the standard
of sin is in the Old Testament. And then if
God somewhere along the line says, and he did in
the New Testament, the eating laws or circumcism, or some
of the ceremonial practices of the law no longer apply
to gentiles. He doesn't mean, let's get rid of the
standards of righteousness in the law in the Old Testament.
And so Jesus, you know, the question is what is
Jesus's perspective of the Old Testament. And Jesus called the
Old Testament God's word the law, not one daughter tittle.
It is going to be until everything is fulfilled. Jesus,
when he was asked about marriage divorce, he said, haven't
you read what God said speaking of what Moses wrote?
You know? And he goes through, there's two genders, one man,
one woman, marriages for one man and one woman. Right,
what God has put together, let no man put asunder.
Jesus confirms the Old Testament center. Some people say, well,
Jesus didn't talk about homosexuality. No, he didn't. He's not
addressing an issue that everybody already knows the Law has
said is sin. He is referring back to the Old
Testament standards of sin and righteousness when he says, haven't
you heard what God said in the Old Testament?
Speaker 1: Right, Well, then Jesus also, I think, raises the bar
the sermount of the mounts. Is this beautiful statement, But
Jesus also raises the bar. You know you've heard it
said you should not commit adultery. But I tell you, right,
if you look at a woman with lust in your eyes,
you've already talked to.
Speaker 3: Men in the context. And he's saying, if you look
at a woman with lest in her eyes, So you're
you're like, okay, well it's okay to look at a
guy with lust in your eyes, right, Because he's just
talking about no, they misuse the scripture, and then like
in the article, they he goes through and says, you know,
first of all, the Old Testament was either misunderstood or
it was Old Covenant, and then he takes the passages
that refer to homosexuality in the New Testament and he
redefines those passages to mean something that has it's never
meant in two thousand years.
Speaker 1: I want to get to that because this is this
is I think one of the either more clever or
smart things he says. And clever I don't mean that
as a compliment. By the way, when we're talking about
the Bible fifty yeah, yeah, I often get YouTube commentaries
or comments where people say, well, God has revealed to
me this is what he said in the Bible. Well,
if you're the only one who sees that, you probably
probably not.
Speaker 3: Your probably or that we're told to hold to the
faith once for all delivered. If even an angel comes
and preaches a different gospel. We were warned that false
teachers would come and change the standards. Well, what that
implies that what we know, Paul says, what you've seen
in me, heard from me. You know where it came from.
Hold to your doctrine, teaching tightly, because through it you
will be saved in soul. Your hears there's this warning
that the way it was understood is the way it's
to be understood in the future. And so what they're
doing is coming up with some new way to understand
something in our generation that nobody understood it that way
for two thousand years.
Speaker 1: I know that you'll agree with me about Do you
remember so called Reverend Fred Phelps, unbelievably hate filled man
in my judgments, he had that said I won't say
the website name, but God hates same sex attracted people
dot com, very hatefield man. I had an opportunity to
debate him briefly once on the topic of same sextraction
and marriage. And at that time I was undiscipled, and
I had soft pedaled myself into well God didn't address
this and all.
Speaker 3: So I hadn't yet studied it.
Speaker 1: And so I called him and said, you know, it's interesting,
Reverend Phelps, because you know, listening to you speak, I
can't imagine you with all that long hair and long beard.
He goes, I don't have long hair. I'm a full
grown man. I've got a short hair cut. I go, oh, no, no, no,
you're you have long hair because you don't clip your
hair at the side of the temples. Right, You've grown
it long, right, And I was quoting deuterotomy, and he
screamed at me, I'm a man, I have.
Speaker 3: Long I have short hair.
Speaker 1: Only idiots and sissies have long hair. And well, wait
a minute, you're violating deuterotomy.
Speaker 3: Your standard is relative to other people in the hippie movement,
right when there was a standard in the Old Testament.
You're saying that you're not following.
Speaker 1: And what I'm saying, yeah, is hey, buddy, you're a
hypocrite because here you are not clipping, You're you're letting.
You're not clipping. You know, you're not letting the hair
the side of the temples grow. Is that what you
mean by one of the ceremonial things that, yeah, because
because the ten Commandments, they can the other teachings they count.
Speaker 3: Well like fabric. You were supposed to wear mixed fabric.
And here's what God was doing in the Old Testament.
He was preserving they didn't have the Holy Spirit. They
would have the Holy Spirit enter into a prophet all
scriptures God breathed right. They were carried along, but they
didn't have the undwelling presence, and they were in a
very hostile world. And God had something to say about
every part of your life, food, clothing, all of it.
And his big point was God cares about everything, and
you're to be distinct and different than the world, right,
and he's protecting the people in the midst of a
broken world. And through that people, the Messiah was going
to come and the light was going to be for
all the nations. And so in the New Testament this
they're referring to. Okay, yes, some things are dismissed. The sabbath.
You're going into the Roman culture, you don't get to go.
I will not work on Sabbath when you're a Roman slave.
He's saying, no firstclautions too, some say I hold this
day over that day, or this ceremony or circumstanced. No,
all those things were a shadow of what was to come,
which is in Christ Jesus right. So parts of the
Old Testament Covenant were actually dismissed, the eating loss, and
in the New Testament says they're dismissed in Acts tent
with Peter and the food loss. What God has made clean,
let no man say is unclean. Right, But the standards
of righteousness are supported over and over and over again
when it comes to like, for instance, in for Timothy,
he says, all scripture is God breathe. Right through the scriptures,
you became wise the salvation, and all scriptures God breeds.
He's usedul for correcting training in righteousness. Okay, so what
were the scriptures they were talking about. He's talking about
Old Testament scripture at that point primarily, but then also
the New Testament comes into play, because Jesus said the
New Testament was going to come into play, and that
I'm going to teach you all things Jesus said to
his disciples and remind you of everything that I've said,
which is why the New Testament scriptures have been accepted
by Christians and in the canon for two thousand years. Right.
And so here's the problem that they're facing. They're taking
passages like Onet Corinthian six right where he talks about
you know, don't be misled. You know you sow, you reap,
and he goes and he says, anybody, you know, anybody
who lives this certain way are they're not in the
Kingdom of heaven. He gives a list of liars and purchases.
But he also says homosexual offenders and Paul does use
a word kind of coin, a word or a word that.
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to ask you about. Yeah, let
me let me just I would have framed this with
people in their sense. In the gay Gospel sexual le
f they have these things they call clobber passages, right, okay,
So any time to go to these churches, they will
in fact often have handouts. These are klabber passages. These
passages only exist to bat or same sex attracted people,
or gender confused, gender defiant people, gender dysphoric people. These
are to beat people up. That's one of the what
they call the klobber passages. Now, this was the piece
that I found interesting. Clever and again I don't mean
clever in a good way, I mean in a scheming
way or smart. This is why I wanted you here.
And this is from this this article I've been quoting
the Future Church. Now and he says, there's this meaning
of the word arson quoitsya. I'm saying that the right
arson quoita. And he says, this is Paul makes up
this word from whole cloth, as if Paul was not
a master of language. And Paul was a master of language.
His contention is that this this could mean thieving, It
could mean hiding. It could mean a lot of things,
but it does don't necessarily mean homosexual behavior or same
sex behavior. That's doesn't necessarily mean that. Therefore, we don't
know that Paul meant that you are not to engage
in same sex sexual activity.
Speaker 3: And it's a long.
Speaker 1: Piece and we'll go through some of the ways it's
been translated.
Speaker 3: As he says.
Speaker 1: But so you agree with this writer Green Accordington that
Paul basically coined that word or invented it.
Speaker 3: No, I'm saying that's what they're saying. Okay, okay, And
but again, though Paul, his understanding is the Old Testament
is scripture. Okay, he's just reaffirming he was a pharisee. Yeah,
he's affirming that same he's referring back to the Leviticus.
Do not lie with a man if you're a man,
as you would a woman. He's saying, there's sexual morality
has a broad category. Beastiality is sexual, im morality, homosexuality
is sexual and morality. These are all standards sex, set
of marriage, incest. There's a whole list of categories here.
In this case, he's naming it right, and he's saying people,
he's literally saying men who have sex with men, and
by the way, he reaffirms that in Romans Won talks
about the whole process of men and women giving up
natural ways of having sex for unnatural ways of having sex.
And so Romans Won he's got this theme throughout all
of it, and he's just reaffirming what has always been
believed about sexual the boundaries that God put around sexual
and morality. And and you know, you know, one of
the things he talks about is sodom and how you know,
the sin of sodom wasn't homosexuality, was a lack of hospitality, right,
And so he he uses the story of Sodom and
Gomorrah as a klobber passage that was misunderstood. And the
problem is there is a passage in scripture that says
one of the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah was a
lack of hospitality. They were going to be homosexual offenders.
And the way they would determine that is a homosexual
offender is a person that this is what they would say,
that that took advantage of children forced homosexual activity. Homosexuality,
they would say, isn't sin the way it's always been
understood scripturally, is a homosexual offender is the difference between
somebody who has same sex attractions and somebody who acts
on those same sex attractions. So, when you're talking about
struggling with homosexuality, I don't know very many people who
would ever want that. They don't they they've many of them.
I've asked God a thousand times to take it away,
or I just feel terrible. I don't it's unnatural or
not everybody else's dealing with, so I'm bad. There are
a lot of attractions because of sin that we have, right,
the Bible says there's no sin that it's overtaken you.
That's not common demand. Somebody has that struggle, and God
provides a way of escape out homosexuality. Practicing homosexuality, offending,
living it out is what he's talking about, not about
forcing it on somebody who's a willing participant. They've misinterpreted
that whole passage to mean something it didn't mean. But
when they're talking about sodom, gomoor and inhospitality, Jude seven
says that their problem was perverse sex. So they're they're
ignoring the parts of the scripture that name their sin
perverse sex. And taking one passage that talked about their inhospitality.
So they're misusing scripture to make it mean something that
it is never meant, to justify it, and even to
promote it. I have if evil in my life group.
Some of my closest friends that struggle with same sex attraction,
they don't struggle with lust with for women. Now I
could go well, since I have struggled with lust for
women and do at times. Since I do that, that's
just who I am, and so God must want me
to act on it.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: Yes, in my sinful nature, I do have a problem
based on experiences and even from the young age I
remember and I used to beg God, take it away,
take it away. He never did, so does that mean
I can act on it. I have friends who have
same sex attraction and I love them. They just deal
with a different issue and know it's wrong for you
to live that out and I'm sorry you have it
and you have to reject it. You have to take
captive thoughts, but you're just like the rest of us.
We have to say no.
Speaker 1: And that that's a piece I've tried so hard to
communicate to people that I feel and I want to
get back to this word because this this You're answering
this very very well, and I see what he's doing here.
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com slash Todd Todd. But I truly believe, Jim that
the church as a whole has aired in not communicating
fornication and adultery with the same zeal right, because I
think same sex attracted people. They could walk into a church.
I mean, God has worked through you and the founders
and the elders to build a pretty big.
Speaker 3: Stink in church, stinking part of me, big big church. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But but any decently intelligent human can walk into.
Speaker 3: A big day it's Easter or whatever.
Speaker 1: We've got you know, I don't know. I mean thousands
of people. We have come in, three five thousand people,
and they can look and go in that pew or
in this pews, the seats. There are people who watch porn.
There are women cheating on their husbands, those men cheating
on their wives. There's hey, you think these teen boys
over here, they're not you know, they're not collecting a
body count. And same sex attract people.
Speaker 3: Go. But but us, right, that's a.
Speaker 1: Huge, much mistake the church has made. And it gives
this guy an opportunity to take one word. And here's
what I hear you saying. Is. Okay, you're saying Paul
coined that word, or he's saying he did because he's
all these different transp he's been clear.
Speaker 3: What it meant, and he's an inspired person for the word.
Paul's inspired. He's speaking for God. So however he used
the language, God's guiding him in that process.
Speaker 1: Okay, so he takes this one word, that's a classic
red herring. Let's pay attention to this one word. But
let's ignore Jude. Let's ignore the other ones where he
speaks on it. Let's ignore all of that. Let's ignore
Jesus talking about what marriage is. You know, man leaves
his family, clings to his wife. Let's ignore the fact
that Jesus took the adultery laws and made them harder. Right, So,
what do you think the church as a whole should
do knowing that God's like this are getting views. There's
lots of books that are getting sold, there are sorrow's funded.
Heretical church is popping up that teaches us us all
that that they're splitting the body of Christ into these
false teachers. What do you think the evangelical church in
America should do to welcome same sex attracted people? Because
we can't put up pride flags, we can't put up
so called trans flags.
Speaker 3: We can't do that.
Speaker 1: We can't even sponsor human pride. God abhors pride and
human beings. So what do you think the evangelical church.
I'm not saying just you the pastors, but we, the body.
How can we welcome same sex attract people say.
Speaker 3: No, we want you here. Yeah, Well, for a couple
of things. First of all, I would say it's a
difficult situation. Yeah, here's why. These are people that are
claiming to be Christians usually that are trying to justify
and even promote sin. So what we have to do
is go, no, it's sin, But we also have to
say it's no worse sin than any other sin. So
if I have a so called Christian movement out there
that's trying to convince everybody in our church that adultery,
sex outside of marriage, heterosex outside of marriage is okay
and should be tried, then I would have to do
a sermon against No, that's sin, that's sin just like
any other sin. What's happening is there aren't a lot
of these Christian guys doing that, creating a movement of
you know, sex outside of marriage is good and you
should do it. If they were, we would attack it.
Problem is when we attack that, we're not careful how
we say it. We just attack that. If we were
to do that, and we let go the line to
see gossip and everything else. The thing that Christianity should
always do is humble us. We all have struggles of sin.
I have problems with I've had problems with gossip. Before
I say something I shouldn't have said, either intentionally and intentionally,
I am say, by grace by what Jesus did, and
I'm grateful that he forgives someone like me. Now, if
you start a movement of gossip is good, we should
all do it. Now I have to go no, gossip
is bad, but I have to do it in sense
to go hey. But we all struggle with it, and
so is the other forms of sin. In humility, we
have to stand up for what's right, admit that we
don't always do what's right, but teach people that we're
all in this process of being sanctified. We're becoming holy,
becoming in line in maturity with what God's will is.
We don't justify it. We don't make somebody else's sin
worse than our sin.
Speaker 1: So when I hear that, and I'll speak these words
and talk about fornication, adultery, same sex activity sinful, I
will get people who will write to me and say, Nope, nope, nope,
same sex activity is an abomination under the Lord. It
is very, very different from.
Speaker 3: So here's what I would do. Go in and just google,
go to your chat GPT, and ask, what are all
of these sins that are an abomination? Okay? In the
scriptures there's a lot of them. I'm guessing to lie
is an abomination? Okay, Okay, so they're taking, So.
Speaker 1: They are taking, they are making a clopper passage. Yeah,
in that case, in that case, right, And I would go, well,
let's talk about all the things that are an abomination.
My goal is not to say lying is okay.
Speaker 3: My goal is to say, let's be consistent. Sin separates
us from God.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: My goal is not to make uh I when I
say homosexuality sin, I'm not. I want to be careful.
I want to say I know that some of you
have battled with same sex attraction the way I battle
with other sins. We all battle. We can't say it's okay,
we have to, with the Lord's help, say no to
it and walk away. You you don't may not have
the same one I have, and I'm glad you have
a different one though, and I'm sad. And so how
do we walk away from sin? And again these folks
who want to take a passage and act it's hypocrisy, right,
And that's just as much of a sin.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: You know what people do is they use Romans chapter one,
and they do and it says that they would not
glorify God. They worship creating things instead of the Creator.
And it talks about they even went so far as
to exchange natural sex for unnatural sex. Right, he's talking
about a culture that slides into corruption and moves away
from natural law. They're rejecting what's even embedded in nature. Right.
But his goal there is to say you actually move
away from even natural things, even what the natural law says,
to move into justifying what is unnatural, as though there
are no borders whatsoever.
Speaker 1: When one can you know, look at what you could
I guess secularists, materiallests would call human biology true. That's
how we explain God's design. But you can look at
the way our bodies fit together, male and female, the
progrative process, and you can intuitively say, oh, this is
designed right, so we can get from that natural nature.
You can look at the results of repeated same sex
acts that can and then you know injury and and
changing the body of disease, et cetera. That does not
happen to the same degree, if at all, in opposite
sex activity, particularly in marriage, because you know STDs et cetera.
So let me throw this idea out at you. Our
church had an event. You brought Christopher one in the
Great Author. He struggled in the worst ways with same
sex attraction and activity and drug dealing. And you're the
guy who taught me the you can choose your sin
but natural accountability. And he's got some accountability, but his parents,
primarily his mom, prayed him out of that.
Speaker 3: He came. You had an event. All we did the.
Speaker 1: Whole I think three days of looking at holy sexuality
and with some other cultural issues. I would love to
see the evangelical world promote a sexual purity week, starting
with how how how can we view pornography? How can
we use the tools of the Bible for people who
addicted to porn? What disease is shows how do we
take that thought captive? What do we do If you
have broken your marriage with adultery, how can you put
it back together? How can we forgive if you are fornicating? Right,
how can you end this behavior? And if you have
same sex attraction? How can you deal with it? Where
are some success stories? You know those guys were at
the Pulse nightclub shooting and they bribed and God delivered
them and there now they go out and speak in public. Hey,
we were active in the same sex attracted community. We're
actively having homosexual relations and God changed us.
Speaker 3: And well, sometimes God takes away Usually God doesn't take
away my attractions. Well, like for me, I don't practice
adultery or fornication. I don't practice looking at porn. Yeah, okay,
I My problem was is is you know you have
memories of what you did and that you wish you
didn't and you have to say, well, man, that's terrible.
I don't like it. I don't want it. I take
that thought captive. But God's never gone. You know what,
I'm not going to make you attracted to women that
never has happened. I have to say no when it's
out of alignment with God's word, it's not. It's not
with my wife, I have to say I don't. And
so a lot of these guys who have same sex attraction,
they may never and most of them don't all of
a sudden become attracted to women. Not saying they do it.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying pray the gayaway, which is the club
or passage they use it us. I'm saying, in the
case of Pulse Nightclub, that happened to those men, and.
Speaker 3: In those cases it did right, and with Christopher, you
on right.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying that I think God came and said, hey,
I can do anything. You survive this because I'm gonna
use you.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: What I'm talking about is an event where we take
all those temptations of the flesh and we speak to
them from a Christian perspective. And simply, my hope would
be this, Jim, that same sex attracted people in our
community who will not enter a true Christian church. They
want the one with the pride flag. They want the
false heretical churches. They might look and go, wow, these
guys have put what they consider my sin almost actually
in the middle of their week, not at the beginning right,
it's one day. Right, They've got five days focusing on
this stuff. And wait, they struggle to This is where
I think we have failed is to say, look, if.
Speaker 3: You're a human, you struggle with sin. Yeah, and it's
not all the same sin, right. Right.
Speaker 1: My friend Tim Krukshank served, He did three tours on
our behalf as a medic attached to the seal teams.
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Speaker 3: You see in our church we have we have a
ton of celibate same sex attraction people in Idaho in
leading right. And when we talk about sex, we want
to we don't just talk about uh, homosexuality. We talk
about sex any outside of any of the way that
Jesus says, God's word says it should be it's sin
to go outside those boundaries. Pornography is sin, So it
doesn't have to be an event, although I don't have
a problem with the event, it should just be when
we talk about it. If we're going to highlight on
one thing, we say why we're highlighting on it. We're saying,
here's a new argument out there, here's what people are
saying to promote this, and here's what Before we do that,
let me just say a couple of things, right. First
of all, we're highlighting on not because it's worse than
those of you are struggling with porn, and not because
it's worse than those of you have an affair or
I just want you to know we're going to talk
about this, but if you're having sex with somebody you're
not married with, if you're looking at porn, it's sin
and it can send you to hell. Practice in that
just as fat as practicing homosexuality can. So I'm going
to be an equal opportunity offender not to offend. To
call you out.
Speaker 1: You mean, do you are going to equally opportunity You're
going to offend people equally?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're going to yourself for not going to be
an offender. So what I don't want to do is
I want you to go get your eyes off of
a sin that you don't get struggled with. So it's
the worst one.
Speaker 1: Right, Well that's the you know, I see that in
society all the time where people are man, look at
that that dude dressed like a woman, look at that
sinth hold on, Well they got whither they're drunk or
they're drunk, or they that that morning their kid, you know,
got chest to chest and they smack their kids or
or or whatever sin it is. Or I'm just thinking
them on their phone and go ooh, my porn hub
refreshed you right right, and and but I'm not doing
anything to anybody. See this is the other thing that
these the gay gospel preachers do is they will say, okay, Jim,
you talked about beast reality. That's forcing an animal. You
can't force an animal to do that. And you've spoken
of you know, stealing, you're taking from something from somebody.
And their closing argument is very often this, it is
very often, we're not harming anybody. See that's the difference, Todd,
is we're not harming anybody, and they will give sermon
after sermon in this is remember we love just differently. Yeah,
and God is harming anybody would say this.
Speaker 3: That argument kind of triggers me because my son, when
he was doing drugs as an adult, would say, I'm
not hurting anybody, and I would go, no, you're breaking
my heart by hurting yourself. I would say, you're buying
a drug so somebody has money to sell a drug
to somebody else. Ods, you're you're you're impacting the people
love you, You're impacting God who made you. You're harming
yourself eternally. If the Bible is true, then there's a
consequence to saying no to God. In the garden. You
know if you do this tree, you will surely die.
There is a consequence to saying no to your creator
and say no, I will do what I want to do,
not what you want to do. That's the part that
we don't understand. The sin in the garden was a
sin of rebellion against the Creator, and he said, if
you do this, you're choosing to be your own king
instead of doing what I ask you to do. Now,
as that happened, it's like a virus that's spread to
impact it every part, and it just kept getting worse
and worse and worse as we invented new ways to
follow our own sinful nature. And so when people say
we're not hurting anybody, you know, like I've had a
guy who said I'm not hurting Anyboddy because I'm with
my husband, right, And I said, well, well you have kids, right,
Well yeah you were married before. Well yeah, you left
your wife and your kids to go marry somebody else
to follow your own heart and it impacted your kids.
You can't send yourself and not hurt somebody else. And
so that's a fabrication. It's a justification of I got
to care about me. They'll get over it, and it's
a rebellion against the creator who made us. And so yeah,
it hurts you, It hurts everybody. And my son used
to say that I'm not doing anything to any of you,
you know, just love me anyway. Well I will love you,
but I'm not going to let you stay at my house.
Well why because your brothers are watching you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've had this conversation with some friends close to me.
And as we wrap this up with Jim Putman and
we had not to this depth at all, but a
conversation about same sex attraction. Because I'm challenging myself, I'm
going to the library and renting books.
Speaker 3: I want to.
Speaker 1: Read the most difficult arguments against the biblical view of
same sex attraction. I want to read the most persuasive
Christians should affirm this argument, because I really I want
to challenge myself in this way. So I've been reaching
out to people with whom I know I disagree. And
one person said to me, this, what about love thy neighbor?
Where does that come into this?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And so go back to love, right, And so what
I've what I've adopted now is yeah, what does love mean?
And I've told you on a go forward basis, that's
going to be my response. Let's make sure we're talking
about the same love.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Let's say if God's Agapollo, God created love, Yeah, love
thy neighbor. Then he defines it in First Court the
thirteen and says love does not rejoice with unrighteousness. Right, Okay,
that's love. So love is not to give you. Love
is not to give your kids what they think they
want with the mind they have at the age they're
at Okay, we are so far below God at the
thinking level. We can actually think some things are good
and they're bad because of how limited we are in
our perspective. Same for the kids. Your kid wants something
and they because our friends have it, they in their
limited experience, think it's good. You, as a parent's job
is not to go well. I'll affirm that to a
two year old who sees the golden glow of the
oven or the stove right, and I want to touch that.
And no, if I love you, I am not going
to give you what you think you want with your
limited experience.
Speaker 1: Yes, and this is again it goes to this magnifying
same sex attraction. I think from the eventical church that's
the special sin. And then a consequence is the sexual
left has a pushback against us. See what they're saying,
we're her, we are and they'll use that love thing.
But here's what we can agree to. I think I
think we can agree even with the sexual left.
Speaker 3: Love does not lie.
Speaker 1: You cannot have a loving relationship based upon lies. You
cannot have a loving relationship. If someone says to you,
do you think I should take a beer bong and
pour everclear into it and swallow the whole thing.
Speaker 3: I don't think so, because that's going to love me
right right. Well, it's the same with the transgender issue,
right yeh, you have gender dysphoria. These are real feelings with.
Speaker 1: Some Sometimes it's gender rebellion. Yes, okay, so gender dysphoya
is real.
Speaker 3: It's existed for a long time. And you think you
think you're being a good parent by backing a confused, hurting,
or rebellious kid to do something that's going to change
their life. And when they come out of the craziness,
which they do, and they're left with something you help
them do that hurt them. This is the that that
is not love. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: There was a great piece I saw on Twitter the
other day, which sometimes has great material. This woman wrote
and apart me, it was a it was a man
who pretends to be a woman, and he wrote this
statement about I cannot believe the cost I had to
pay to get these stupid tattoos removed. This should be illegal,
this should have to be covered by insurance and this
long rant and showed a picture of the tattoo this
man pretending to be a woman want to remove, and
a guy wrote back he said, Wait, do you mean
to tell me that you regret the decision you made
for your body when you were seventeen years old?
Speaker 3: Great?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And this is the same push in person
pushing these procedures for kids, et cetera.
Speaker 3: Well, those of us who have dealt with kids who
have been a illness, which I have same, there are
times where they should not be allowed. I mean they shouldn't.
I agree that that there should be an age in
which a kid should drink the cold, should be allowed
to drink. I mean, there's an age in which a
kid should be allowed to buy a gun. There's an
age in which a kid should be sent off to war.
There's not an age that we have to make sure
they're making wise decisions when they're young. But it comes
down to this whole belief of you. You know, you
have your own vision and dream about what who you are,
and everybody else's job is to help you achieve your
personal goal for life. And the problem is the Bible
says our heart is the most wicked of all things.
We're broken. We don't lean on our own understanding anymore
because it's limited. I don't see the whole picture. I
can eat or not eat something that impacts my thinking.
I can drink or not drink something. I can have
things that happen. And we're so concerned about our own
perspective and everybody else given me what I think I want,
and that's love. That is destruction for anybody who does
this for any attraction they're dealing with, right, right, firmly,
firmly agree.
Speaker 1: So our retirement accounts and our retirement future are about
to change again. If President Trump's the first president to
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Speaker 3: How much are they.
Speaker 1: Willing to do to maintain the Deep States control of
our finances over the international.
Speaker 3: Order they call it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter in one way because we're gonna have
to retire anyway. That is, if you want to retire
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to have him running your money, and as if a
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And Zach said, you know what, I don't want to
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TRUK twenty five, Dash two one seven. When I was
really struggling with with lack of belief and posing as
an agnostic and and I was getting all sorts of
attention for being notorious.
Speaker 3: Talk show hosts back in the day.
Speaker 1: So I had some really really loyal, you know, listeners
to the program and some obsessive ones.
Speaker 3: And I was notorious.
Speaker 1: And that was fun because I go in public and
you know, people in sul like city, Oh that's that guy.
And I had the long hair and all that stuff.
And I this very unethical psychiatrist put me on prozac
after two meetings. So I went on the prozac. And
the time I was dating a woman who neglected to
tell me she wasn't quite divorced yet. And this is,
you know, so long ago, praise God. And by the way,
obviously I'm deeply ashamed of it, clearly, So I'm in
this mess. This guy puts me in this prozac and
I go and become suicidal. So it occurred to me,
nothing's going to get better. Ever, this is always gonna suck.
I'm away was going to be sad, and here I
am with I mean, from my age, the money I.
Speaker 3: Was taking in Canada, we'll give you drugs to injury,
so I know.
Speaker 1: And I'm like I had sponsors who I could roll
up to their business and say, hey, I haven't charged
you in a little while.
Speaker 3: They'd had me three grand in cash. Here you go.
Speaker 1: In a way, it's a dream world. So I was
so sick in the head that I called my mom.
I said, hey, I need to tell you something, and
I laid out the case. Things aren't going to get better,
and there's kind of emotionally removed.
Speaker 3: So I've just reached the.
Speaker 1: Conclusion that I'm going to end my life. And my
mom said, the wisest thing she goes is that something
you have to do today. Maybe you could park it
for like a two weeks, maybe schedule that to do
in two weeks.
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 1: So I guess I have to do it today, you know,
schedule for two weeks out. That's a pretty brave thing
to say, pretty wise. And so I go to work
the next day, get off the air, and the admin
A K.
Speaker 3: Said, Hey, Todd, some people in the lobby to see you.
Speaker 1: And I go out and there's members of my family,
my dad and another person for my family standing in
the lobby. And my dad hated flying. Jim he was
a huge, very large man, hated flying.
Speaker 3: He flew down.
Speaker 1: I went out in the lobby, go how long are
you guys here? My dad said, until you get your
head right. And I hadn't been on those pills very long,
so I was able to go off those pills and
that changed a lot of things. And so I would
say to the sexual left and people of that that mindset,
my mom could have said, you know what, I love
you and I affirm your decision because you made a good, strong,
intellectual case.
Speaker 3: But instead she didn't say.
Speaker 1: By the way, when I get off this phone, I'm
calling your dad and some other people.
Speaker 3: Right, she did the right things. I would say this
to these folks when I say no, that's not who
you are, well, they'll say, oh, no, God made this way.
What do you mean this. I say, no, God didn't
make you that way. The world became a fallen place
and we got we all caught this disease called the
sinful nature. You have it. That's not how God made you.
That's what we became because of sin. And God's going
to restore you if you'll let him ultimately in heaven. Yeah,
not here, but he's going to help you deal with
and manage. And so I would say, we care about you,
we love you. Now. I'm sorry. There are people out
there in Jesus' name who are not saying what Jesus
would say. Don't reject Jesus for what some idiot said
about him or in his name. Yeah, Jesus's voice was
I love you, Come and follow me and go and
sin no more, but I'm going to help you go
in cinema. No, he didn't mean you're never going to
sin againy ment, no turn away from that follow me.
I have something better for you. I have life and
life to the full. And yes, down here, it's a
battle with your sinful nature and your thoughts and your
old life. And sometimes you have to have for me.
I have to have friends that I to share and
remind me who I am, and remind me the upper story,
because I'm so locked into the right here, right now,
and the devil's whispering so loud to me, and it
seems like it's true because it's the voice in my head,
and we can't we don't know it. See enemy, there's
a devil. We don't know that we have a sinful nature.
We don't know even what the voice of God is,
and we need to have other people help us. But
I want you to know, if you're struggling with same
sex attraction, or you've given in and you've done gone
down that road, Jesus wants to save you. He loves you.
He'll take you just as you are, and he'll make
something else out of you. He's done that for me,
he'll do it for you. We may not have to
come from the same place, but he'll take us to
the same place. You know, new Heaven, new Earth, and
so I'm sorry people have done that to you. And
for those of you who walk around who are saying
things like God hates this particular person, or that he
hates sin and he wants to save us from it,
and those who reject him and won't allow him to
save us both salvation save us from the consequences of
sin and save us from the power of sin. If
you won't let him do that, then God will judge,
but he doesn't want to. He waits to return because
he wants you, no matter where you are, what you've done,
to surrender to him and say, Lord, take me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's well said, Jim, really well said. Thank you,
my friend. Always pleasure to have you on.
Speaker 3: Thank you. This is a Todd Herman show.
Speaker 1: Please go, be well, be strong, be kind, and if
you haven't done it yet, make this the day that
you asked Jesus Christ to come and save you. Just
recognize him as your savior, ask him to come in
your art, ask him to take control of your life
and knock and you will receive