Speaker 1: Now one of your pudding. I got a string going
Speaker 1: on here, something just cause my dog. Something killed your dog.
Speaker 1: My dog. We're flying through the air over the tree.
Speaker 1: I don't know how it did it, Okay, Damn, I'm
Speaker 1: really confused. All I saw was my dog coming over
Speaker 1: the fence and he was dead. And once you hit
Speaker 1: the ground like, I didn't see any cars. All I
Speaker 1: saw was my dog coming over the fence. Sat what
Speaker 1: are you putting? We got some wonder or something crawling
Speaker 1: around out here? Did you see what it was or
Speaker 1: was it was? Standing enough. I'm out here looking through
Speaker 1: the window now and I don't see anything. I don't
Speaker 1: want to go outside. Jesus quice you bick hello, get
Speaker 1: Someboddy out here when I'm out there.
Speaker 2: I thought of a bit just.
Speaker 1: About text nine. I don't know easy out there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm working right away.
Speaker 3: All folks want to welcome o guest to the show. It
Speaker 3: is Steve from Washington State. Welcome to the show man.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thanks for the invite.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I'm glad to have you been looking forward to this.
Speaker 3: So let's get right into it. Let's talk about this
Speaker 3: bigfoot thing? What guy you interested in the subject.
Speaker 4: To begin with.
Speaker 5: Probably the same way I think a lot of squatchers
Speaker 5: get started. I've heard a lot of people talk about
Speaker 5: the Patterson Gemlin film, and of course when I was
Speaker 5: a kid, that was just coming out, and of course
Speaker 5: that came along with a lot of other new documentaries
Speaker 5: and things like that they'd be showing on TV, and
Speaker 5: of course the idea was a little more new than
Speaker 5: and of course that kind of changed everything with that film.
Speaker 5: And then there were some other movies that came out
Speaker 5: not too long after that. One notably was The Legend
Speaker 5: of Boggy Creek, and I've heard a lot of squatches
Speaker 5: of my generation that kind of got them interested because
Speaker 5: that just good. Everybody we go to school and talk
Speaker 5: about that movie. So it was more of a curiosity
Speaker 5: most of my life as I was growing up. But
Speaker 5: I grew up on a farm in Montana, so I
Speaker 5: grew up out in the country and spent a lot
Speaker 5: of time in the woods. In fact, when I was
Speaker 5: a kid, I used to go out in our past
Speaker 5: year and camp by myself and got used to that.
Speaker 4: That's why even to this state, when I go out
Speaker 4: in the woods, I'm usually solo.
Speaker 5: Then fast forward the calendar about twenty years when I
Speaker 5: moved away from Montana. I ended up Spokane for a
Speaker 5: short time here in Washington State. Then I went in
Speaker 5: the military. I spent most of my twenties on the military,
Speaker 5: and when I got out, I went to school for drafting.
Speaker 5: My first job, actually my internship, which turned into a
Speaker 5: regular job, was as a map maker. A lot of
Speaker 5: people have heard of people turning their hobbies into professions.
Speaker 5: This was the other way around. I actually turned my
Speaker 5: profession into a hobby. So later on, after I left
Speaker 5: that job, I was drawing maps for a PUD. I
Speaker 5: kept the map make on is really more of a hobby,
Speaker 5: but I also work contracts on the psych drafted maps.
Speaker 5: So I went into mechanical design, but I kept mapping. Then,
Speaker 5: roughly about twenty ten, I had gotten involved in the
Speaker 5: missing Persions cases, a local case where an eight year
Speaker 5: old boy had disappeared from a school. I got involved
Speaker 5: with the search parties. Mostly what I did I shot
Speaker 5: video and photographed. There's a lot of events, a lot
Speaker 5: of publicity about it.
Speaker 3: Now, before we go any further, I want to take
Speaker 3: a minute and talk about something that has absolutely nothing
Speaker 3: to do with Bigfoot. And look, I know what you're thinking,
Speaker 3: Why are you bringing up a missing person's case in
Speaker 3: the middle of a sasquatch interview. The simple answer is
Speaker 3: because I was a cop for many years, and I
Speaker 3: also host a true crime podcast called The Guilty Five,
Speaker 3: and this case has haunted me for years. And Steve
Speaker 3: just told us that he worked with the people who
Speaker 3: investigated the disappearance. I plan to cover this case on
Speaker 3: The Guilty Files in the coming weeks, So if you're
Speaker 3: into true crime, check out the show. The case of
Speaker 3: Kyen Horman is one of those stories that just burrows
Speaker 3: into your brain and refuses to leave. And I think
Speaker 3: it's important that we keep talking about cases like this
Speaker 3: because the moment we stop talking about them is the
Speaker 3: moment they disappear from public memory. And this little boy
Speaker 3: has already disappeared once. He doesn't deserve to disappear again.
Speaker 3: So here's what happened. On the morning of June fourth,
Speaker 3: twenty ten, a seven year old boy named Kirene Richard
Speaker 3: Horman woke up and got ready for what should have
Speaker 3: been one of the most exciting days of his young life.
Speaker 3: It was Science Fair day at Skyline Elementary School in Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 3: Kiren had put together a display about the red eyed
Speaker 3: tree frog. Seven year olds love weird animals. It's basically
Speaker 3: a law of nature. His stepmother, Terry Horman, drove him
Speaker 3: to school that morning instead of putting him on the
Speaker 3: bus so he could set up his exhibit early. They
Speaker 3: walked through the science fair together. Terry even took a
Speaker 3: photo of Kyrone standing next to his project, this big
Speaker 3: proud grin on his face. That photograph would become one
Speaker 3: of the most recognized images in Oregon history, and for
Speaker 3: all the wrong reasons. According to Terry, she last saw
Speaker 3: Kyron walking down the hallway toward his second grade classroom
Speaker 3: at around eight forty five that morning. She said, she
Speaker 3: left the school, loaded up her one year old daughter,
Speaker 3: who had been with them, and headed out. She claimed
Speaker 3: she spent the next couple of hours driving around the
Speaker 3: heavily wooded West Hills area near the school because her
Speaker 3: daughter wasn't feeling well and the driving helped soothe her.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing, though, at ten am, Kyne's teacher marked
Speaker 3: him absent. He never made it to class, but nobody
Speaker 3: called home. Nobody flagged it. In a world where we
Speaker 3: can try track of pizza from the oven to our
Speaker 3: front door. In real time, a seven year old boy
Speaker 3: simply vanished from inside a school and nobody noticed for hours.
Speaker 3: It wasn't until three point thirty that afternoon, when Kirene
Speaker 3: didn't get off the bus, that the alarm was finally raised.
Speaker 3: Terry and Kyne's father, Caine Horman, who had been at
Speaker 3: work all day, rushed to the school. A school secretary
Speaker 3: called nine to one pint one, and just like that,
Speaker 3: one of the most baffling missing persons cases in American
Speaker 3: history was under way. What followed was the largest search
Speaker 3: and rescue operation in Oregon history. Over thirteen hundred volunteers
Speaker 3: and law enforcement officers from Oregon, Washington, and California fanned
Speaker 3: out across the area. They searched the dense woods around
Speaker 3: the school. They searched Soviet Island about six miles away.
Speaker 3: They searched properties and outbuildings and sheds. They searched for
Speaker 3: ten straight days. They found nothing, not a shoe, not
Speaker 3: a scrap of clothing, not a single trace of Kien Horman.
Speaker 3: And this is where the case takes a turn that
Speaker 3: honestly reads more like a crime novel than real life.
Speaker 3: Less than two weeks after Kiren disappeared, police stopped the
Speaker 3: search and made an announcement that sent chills through the community.
Speaker 3: They upgraded the case from a missing child investigation to
Speaker 3: a criminal investigation, and they publicly stated they did not
Speaker 3: believe Kien had been abducted by a stranger. Read between
Speaker 3: the lines on that one, folks. The investigation zeroed in
Speaker 3: on Terry Horman almost immediately, and the reason started stacking
Speaker 3: up like cord Wood. First, her story had problems. She
Speaker 3: said she left Kiren walking toward his classroom, but four
Speaker 3: separate witnesses reported seeing Terry leading Kyen back toward her
Speaker 3: truck that morning after the science fare. Four people. That's
Speaker 3: not a misunderstanding, that's a contradiction. Second, her cell phone
Speaker 3: records raised red flag. Investigators determined her phone data didn't
Speaker 3: match up with where she claimed to be that morning.
Speaker 3: She said she was driving around the West Hills, but
Speaker 3: the data suggested otherwise. Third, and this is a big one,
Speaker 3: Terry failed two polygraph examinations in the days immediately following
Speaker 3: Kyroene's disappearance. Then she refused to take a third. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: Kyene's biological mother, Desiree Young, his father Kane, and everyone
Speaker 3: else connected to the case passed their polygraphs without issue,
Speaker 3: and then things got even stranger. Three weeks after Kien vanished,
Speaker 3: Caine moved out of the family home. That same day,
Speaker 3: Terry made two nine to one one calls, one classified
Speaker 3: as a threat's call and the other as a child
Speaker 3: custody call. Then came the bombshell. A landscaper who worked
Speaker 3: for the Horman family, a man named Rodolfo Sanchez, came
Speaker 3: forward and told investigators that about five months before he disappeared,
Speaker 3: Terry had approached him and offered him money to kill
Speaker 3: her husband. Five months before her step son vanished, she
Speaker 3: was allegedly shopping for a hitman. Investigators actually wired Sanchez
Speaker 3: up and had him confront Terry while wearing an audio
Speaker 3: surveillance device, but she didn't take the bait and they
Speaker 3: couldn't make an arrest. And here's where it gets even wilder.
Speaker 3: It was later reported that this wasn't even the first
Speaker 3: time Terry had been investigated for a murder for higher plot.
Speaker 3: She had allegedly been looked at for trying to hire
Speaker 3: someone to kill a boyfriend before she even moved to Portland.
Speaker 3: Three separate murder for Higher investigations, and yet to this
Speaker 3: day she has never been charged with anything. Caine filed
Speaker 3: for divorce. Desiree Young filed a ten million dollar civil
Speaker 3: lawsuit against Terry, accusing her of being responsible for Kyron's disappearance.
Speaker 3: She eventually had to drop it because investigators told her
Speaker 3: it was interfering with their criminal case. A grand jury
Speaker 3: was convened, witnesses were subpoened. Cane testified, Desiree testified, the
Speaker 3: school principal testified, but by the end of twenty ten,
Speaker 3: the grand jury had failed to produce a compelling enough
Speaker 3: case for an indictment. Terry, who has since remarried and
Speaker 3: now goes by Terry Vasquez, has always denied any involvement.
Speaker 3: In twenty sixteen, she went on Doctor phil and floated
Speaker 3: a theory that a man in a white pickup truck
Speaker 3: had kidnapped Kirene. That remains one of the only times
Speaker 3: she has spoken publicly about the case. Meanwhile, the search
Speaker 3: costs ballooned to an estimated one point four million dollars,
Speaker 3: Over four thousand tips poured in, and yet fifteen years later,
Speaker 3: not one single piece of physical evidence has ever been recovered.
Speaker 3: No body, no clothing, no DNA nothing. Kyen Horman simply
Speaker 3: ceased to exist on the morning of June fourth, twenty ten.
Speaker 3: Now I want to be careful here because nobody has
Speaker 3: been charged in this case. Terry Horman is legally a
Speaker 3: person of interest, not a suspect, and she maintains her innocence.
Speaker 3: But I'll say this, when you've got four witnesses contradicting
Speaker 3: your story, cell phone records that don't match your alibi,
Speaker 3: two failed polygraphs, a murder for higher plot against your husband,
Speaker 3: and you were the last known person with the missing child, Well,
Speaker 3: the math on that doesn't look great. A close friend
Speaker 3: of Terry's name Dede. Spicer, was also working in the
Speaker 3: West Hills area that morning and was reportedly unaccounted for
Speaker 3: by her co workers for a couple of hours. That
Speaker 3: detail has never been fully explained, and it's one of
Speaker 3: those loose threads that drives investigators and true crime followers
Speaker 3: absolutely crazy. In twenty seventeen, a secret grand jury was
Speaker 3: still hearing evidence in the case. Law enforcement conducted additional
Speaker 3: searches along Skyline Boulevard that year, but again came up empty.
Speaker 3: The original detectives on the case have all since retired,
Speaker 3: for years, the investigation appeared to be losing momentum. But
Speaker 3: there's a reason I'm bringing this up now because there's
Speaker 3: some new developments that are worth paying attention to. In
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, a new Moultnomah County District Attorney named
Speaker 3: Nathan Vasquez took office and made the Chien Horman case
Speaker 3: a priority. He ordered a thorough, methodical review of the
Speaker 3: entire case with fresh eyes. The Multnomah County Sheriff's Office,
Speaker 3: working alongside Gresham Police detectives, has spent the past year
Speaker 3: digitizing and reorganizing every piece of evidence in the case.
Speaker 3: We're talking thousands upon thousands of pages of reports, photographs,
Speaker 3: and evidence being scanned and converted into a modern digital format.
Speaker 3: And here's the part that gives me some cautious hope.
Speaker 3: Once that digitization is complete, the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit
Speaker 3: is stepping in to re examine everything. These are the profilers.
Speaker 3: These are the people who analyze statements and narratives and evidence,
Speaker 3: who look for behavioral patterns and inconsistencies, and who compare
Speaker 3: cases against similar investigations nationwide. They're going to go through
Speaker 3: every witness statement with a fine toothed comb, looking for contradictions,
Speaker 3: looking for things that were corroborated, looking for gaps that
Speaker 3: might have been overlooked the first time around. Now a
Speaker 3: former prosecutor named Jeanine O'Neil Robbin has been doing her
Speaker 3: own digging into this case, and she's raised some concerns.
Speaker 3: She obtained records showing that the Sheriff's office only logged
Speaker 3: about two hundred eighty seven hours on the case in
Speaker 3: fiscal year twenty twenty three, three hundred seventy one hours
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four, and just twenty nine hours in
Speaker 3: the first three months of fiscal year twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Those aren't the numbers of an agency actively building a case.
Speaker 3: Those are the numbers of an agency fielding tips as
Speaker 3: they come in. But the renewed effort under the new
Speaker 3: DA and the FBI involvement could change that equation dramatically.
Speaker 3: As of right now, in early twenty twenty six, the
Speaker 3: case remains officially open and active. There's a fifty thousand
Speaker 3: dollars reward for information leading to its resolution. Kirene Horman
Speaker 3: would be twenty three years old today. The National Center
Speaker 3: for Missing and Exploited Children has released age progressed images,
Speaker 3: estimating what he might look like now. He had brown hair,
Speaker 3: blue eyes, wore glasses, and had a distinctive V shaped
Speaker 3: strawberry birthmark on his forehead. His mother, Desiree Young, has
Speaker 3: never stopped fighting. She has become an expert on missing
Speaker 3: persons cases, speaking at law enforcement gatherings, organizing annual fundraisers
Speaker 3: to fund continued searches, and building a circumstantial case that
Speaker 3: she presents publicly at events like True Crime Fest Northwest.
Speaker 3: She has a loyal following of supporters called Kirene Horman's
Speaker 3: World Soldiers, who maintain a Facebook presence and produce content
Speaker 3: keeping the case alive. She also worked with author Rebecca
Speaker 3: Morris on a book called Boy Missing that details the
Speaker 3: case and and the reasons she suspects Terry Horman. And
Speaker 3: that right there is why I brought this up, Because
Speaker 3: somewhere out there, somebody knows something. That's how these cases work.
Speaker 3: Somebody always knows. And sometimes it takes sixteen years for
Speaker 3: a conscience to catch up with a person. Sometimes it
Speaker 3: takes a new set of eyes on old evidence. Sometimes
Speaker 3: it takes technology that didn't exist when a crime was committed.
Speaker 3: If you have any information about the disappearance of Chiron Horman,
Speaker 3: you can contact the Moltnomah County Sheriff's Office tip line
Speaker 3: at five three nine eight eight zero five six zero.
Speaker 3: You can email tips at MCSO dot us, or you
Speaker 3: can contact the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
Speaker 3: at one eight hundred Do the Lost. Now that I
Speaker 3: thoroughly depressed you, let's get back to Bigfoot and stay
Speaker 3: tuned for more sasquatch Ott to see. We'll be right
Speaker 3: back after these messages.
Speaker 5: Then, I think it must have been about twenty eighteen,
Speaker 5: twenty nineteen. Somebody in one of the groups said we
Speaker 5: should have one of those drones, and drones were in
Speaker 5: their infancy a little bit more. Then in about twenty
Speaker 5: twenty I decided to integrate drones into map making, so
Speaker 5: that just melded together. Then it must have been about
Speaker 5: twenty twenty one when I moved over here from Spokane.
Speaker 5: I started to kind of get interested in the Bigfoot
Speaker 5: stuff a little bit more. But a lot of that
Speaker 5: was because it's the culture here. There's a lot of
Speaker 5: Bigfoot culture, and there's a lot of Bigfoot stuff here.
Speaker 5: I started hanging around up in the Gifford pinch On
Speaker 5: National Port went up to Mount Saint Helens and I
Speaker 5: had an experience. One must have been about about two
Speaker 5: thousand and eight, and I was up in an area
Speaker 5: called Eight Cave, which is really only a few miles
Speaker 5: as the crow flies from a place called Aiden Valley,
Speaker 5: and of course Ayton Valley is the area where a
Speaker 5: lot of people have heard the story. There was some
Speaker 5: miners back in the twenties had a cabin there and
Speaker 5: they got ran out by what they called They were
Speaker 5: calling them sasquatch. Then they called them Harry devils. That
Speaker 5: was just what they came up with. I was up
Speaker 5: there one time. Where eight Cave is, there's a main
Speaker 5: entrance and then there's a trail and that goes to
Speaker 5: a further entrance, and between those two there's a big
Speaker 5: open area. It's not a clearcut like there's a lot
Speaker 5: of open areas up there with they're clearcuts, but this
Speaker 5: is up it's a big open area that's right over
Speaker 5: top of the Eighth Cave and there's a lot of
Speaker 5: volcanic rock there and I used to go and poke around,
Speaker 5: climb around on those rocks. And one time I was
Speaker 5: up there and everything just got really weird. Are we
Speaker 5: just standing there? Everything just got really quiet. Anybody that's
Speaker 5: been up in the different pinchild they know it's not
Speaker 5: a quiet place up there. There's birds going and gets
Speaker 5: windy up there. But all of a sudden, you could
Speaker 5: hear a pin drop. I smelled something really bad, and
Speaker 5: it was weird because I was right out in this
Speaker 5: open area, so I wasn't really even close to the
Speaker 5: tree line, but you could smell this really clearly. It
Speaker 5: smelt like, you know what a horse smells like. You're
Speaker 5: standing right next to a horse, and a horse has
Speaker 5: a smell of its own. The only thing that I've
Speaker 5: smelt before that smelt anything like that, or camels. Of course,
Speaker 5: camels they're a lot stronger than a horse, and this
Speaker 5: was like that. But I could still right out in
Speaker 5: this open area, and I just had this idea that
Speaker 5: there's obviously something wrong up there, but you can't see.
Speaker 4: You don't know what it is.
Speaker 5: But I kept thinking, there's something right in that tree line.
Speaker 5: It's just that feeling they yet that you can't explain.
Speaker 5: After that kind of stuck in the back of my mind.
Speaker 5: A few years later, I must have been in about
Speaker 5: it was twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. I'd ran
Speaker 5: across in a restaurant. There was some Bigfoot researchers that
Speaker 5: had gathered there. I think it was like a meetup
Speaker 5: or something, because they had a little sign on their table,
Speaker 5: and I got to talking with them, and let's tell
Speaker 5: them that I was a mat maker and I used drones.
Speaker 5: By this time, I was using drones for mat making.
Speaker 5: They were asking me how much i'd charge them because
Speaker 5: they had an area and they found some structures and
Speaker 5: prints and some interesting things, and they were asking me
Speaker 5: what I would charge them to go and drone and
Speaker 5: map the area for him, and I told them, heck,
Speaker 5: I'd do that for free. That just sounded like fun.
Speaker 5: So I did a little pro bunnel job for him.
Speaker 5: And then by that time, after the interaction with them,
Speaker 5: I started hitting all the squatch fests and all the
Speaker 5: Bigfoot festivals. So I wanted to learn more about what's
Speaker 5: going on here. Read that Jeff Melderm's buck. Yeah, then
Speaker 5: I just I almost just fell into it. And then
Speaker 5: it must have been about twenty twenty three. I had
Speaker 5: taken a missing person case out of Boise, Idaho. It
Speaker 5: was a little older case that it dawned on me
Speaker 5: that I should have some sort of Internet presence so
Speaker 5: families that needed those types of services to find me
Speaker 5: and get a hold of me. So that's when I
Speaker 5: started Steve Surges. That's what I pretty much operate on
Speaker 5: it right now. I have Steve Searches out of a
Speaker 5: YouTube channel and a Facebook page. Just go on YouTube,
Speaker 5: look for Steve Searches and they'll find all my material.
Speaker 5: So I started doing more of the bigfoot stuff because
Speaker 5: it was just more readily available. You could just go
Speaker 5: out here. You can just go out and find bigfoot
Speaker 5: things everywhere. You can find bigfoot people, and you can
Speaker 5: go online, you can find groups. So then last year
Speaker 5: I started going out and spending the night up in
Speaker 5: the Gifford Pinchow started spending nights up there, So it
Speaker 5: didn't take long for me to start running into more
Speaker 5: people that were interested in.
Speaker 4: What I was doing.
Speaker 5: Because I thought, hecked, if I'm going to be doing this,
Speaker 5: I'm going to be out here all this time and
Speaker 5: solo camping and looking for a big hairy monsters, I
Speaker 5: might as well just get a GoPro and just record
Speaker 5: the whole thing. You know, just sticking on the YouTube
Speaker 5: and people want to watch it, they can watch it.
Speaker 5: If not, who knows where it's going to go. So
Speaker 5: early last year, must have met about February or March.
Speaker 5: I was contacted by Michelle he of the Sweet Home
Speaker 5: Oregon Sasquat Research group. They have a Facebook group. She
Speaker 5: had some interesting ideas and it invited me to go
Speaker 5: with her and some of her people out in Oregon
Speaker 5: for a camp out. So I did that and we
Speaker 5: all got to be pretty good friends. So I've been
Speaker 5: working pretty closely with them for this last year. They've
Speaker 5: joined me on a few outings up at Mount Saint
Speaker 5: Helens and I go down there once in a while
Speaker 5: and join them and help some of the stuff they
Speaker 5: have gone on. They've supported me quite a bit. They've
Speaker 5: allowed me to post my videos in their group. And
Speaker 5: then there was another group that we encountered that was
Speaker 5: a bigger group. It was called the Sasquatch Highway and
Speaker 5: they've been really supportive too. They openly let me post
Speaker 5: all of my stuff there and I've gotten a lot
Speaker 5: of attention from these. So that's how I got into it.
Speaker 3: So now you actively go out and do what you
Speaker 3: would call investigations or your own research into these things.
Speaker 3: What is your approach to the research? Are you coming
Speaker 3: from a this is a big hairy ape in the woods.
Speaker 3: You're an aper, you're in the flesh and blood camp.
Speaker 3: Do you get into the high strangeness of the WU
Speaker 3: What is your approach when you go out doing your
Speaker 3: solo camps looking into the subject.
Speaker 5: When I first started going out and pursuing this, I
Speaker 5: had read, like I was saying, Jeff Melderm's book, and
Speaker 5: I stuck with the science only philosophy. But then when
Speaker 5: I started running around with the sweet Home group, they
Speaker 5: have a lot more diversity as far as they have
Speaker 5: some not necessarily people that are their research group, but
Speaker 5: people on their Facebook page and stuff. I wouldn't have
Speaker 5: really entertained the idea of partoles and things like that
Speaker 5: five years ago. But now I'm thinking that I may
Speaker 5: have been wrong the whole time, because it seems like
Speaker 5: our time I spent out in the woods. The more
Speaker 5: I realized that I don't know, you know what I'm saying. See,
Speaker 5: I try to avoid making conclusions out of things that
Speaker 5: I find, because I always talk about this too. I
Speaker 5: have a chemistry professor one time that put it eloquently,
Speaker 5: he said, you can't prove stuff. You don't prove stuff.
Speaker 5: The things that we believe is all based on matters
Speaker 5: of probability, how probable or how possible we think things aren't.
Speaker 5: The more I learn, the more probable the existence of
Speaker 5: Bigfoot seems to me.
Speaker 4: One of the things that has always gotten under.
Speaker 5: My skin over the years is that you see a
Speaker 5: lot of museums, especially a lot of modern science. And
Speaker 5: this is not a stab against science or anything like that,
Speaker 5: but now they seems like when you go into museums,
Speaker 5: they have all of these exhibits all put together, and
Speaker 5: it's almost like they're thinking for you, showing you and
Speaker 5: explaining to you or demonstrating this is the way things were.
Speaker 5: But what happens is every twenty thirty years we find out, wow,
Speaker 5: that wasn't really true, because you figure, I think in
Speaker 5: my lifetime, most people still believe that dinosaurs were descendants
Speaker 5: of lizards. I can even remember when I was a kid.
Speaker 5: I can remember TV shows and cartoons that depicted cavemen
Speaker 5: hiding from dinosaurs. Well back there was a time in
Speaker 5: history where the scientific community would have supported the same
Speaker 5: idea because not that they weren't smart, It's just they
Speaker 5: didn't know better. My philosophy really behind research is I'm
Speaker 5: the guy that's going to go out I'm going to
Speaker 5: look for things. I'm gonna look for patterns. I'm gonna
Speaker 5: look for structures or prints or anything that could quite
Speaker 5: just something unusual, and I'll.
Speaker 4: Get it on video. I'll measure it, I'll map it.
Speaker 5: I'll bring all this stuff back and I'll present it
Speaker 5: to people and I'll let them make their own conclusions.
Speaker 3: Gotcha, you're going out there alone. Is that something that
Speaker 3: you just chose to do or you can't find anybody
Speaker 3: to go out there with you? Because I never recommend
Speaker 3: for anybody to go solo camping, just because I know
Speaker 3: it's a thing people like to do it. I have
Speaker 3: friends who love to do it. There's just something that
Speaker 3: it sticks with me about. I do a lot of
Speaker 3: missing persons cases on the show, and I talk about
Speaker 3: people who go missing all the time in wild areas,
Speaker 3: whether it be a National park, whether it be an
Speaker 3: adjacent area, and people go out solo and they never
Speaker 3: come back. So is that a conscious choice because of
Speaker 3: the research, or is that just a personal choice of
Speaker 3: yours to go out and do it solo.
Speaker 5: It's something that I've always done. Anyhow, I've done it
Speaker 5: since I was a kid, so I don't really even
Speaker 5: think about it too much. It's kind of like one
Speaker 5: of those things where you tell your kids not to
Speaker 5: do something, but you do it. Don't do as I do,
Speaker 5: just do as I say. But I enjoy having people
Speaker 5: come out. I even mentioned sometimes on my videos if
Speaker 5: someone wants to come and ride along, They're welcome to it.
Speaker 5: They're welcome to do that. But I also I understand
Speaker 5: the dangers, but I mitigate that by I operate within
Speaker 5: pretty wide margin in a safety I have little rules.
Speaker 5: I have certain rules that I have made for myself,
Speaker 5: and I don't break them. I only have certain ranges
Speaker 5: as far as like how far away from the truck
Speaker 5: will go. When I was in the military, we had
Speaker 5: one of the general orders that we always had to
Speaker 5: memorize was that nothing we did in peacetime warranted unnecessary risk.
Speaker 5: I have that same philosophy and researching. I don't really
Speaker 5: take a lot of chance because I don't think, I
Speaker 5: mean what we're doing here. But it's interesting and it's fun.
Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, we're not really
Speaker 5: carrying cancer here. We're really just satisfying our own human curiosities,
Speaker 5: and that's just not worth taking a lot of risk.
Speaker 5: Some examples might be like when I'm going up, if
Speaker 5: I'm driving out, saying the winter time, because I go
Speaker 5: out pretty much, I'll go up every weekend, nearly every weekend.
Speaker 4: Through the whole year.
Speaker 5: But if I'm on the roads, say, if I start
Speaker 5: to get to a point where there's enough snow in
Speaker 5: the roads to where I think that I may even
Speaker 5: have even a small problem turning around or getting off
Speaker 5: the road, that's when I stop and turn routed off.
Speaker 5: I don't wait to tell them in trouble, you know
Speaker 5: what I mean. Or if I'm out hiking, for example,
Speaker 5: if I'm out hiking, even if I'm on a trail,
Speaker 5: if things start to get uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: I call it.
Speaker 5: I turn around and go back, because yeah, you always
Speaker 5: have to remember this. As far out as you go,
Speaker 5: you're gonna have to go back that way you want
Speaker 5: to make a bag. So I also have protocols for areas.
Speaker 5: A lot of the areas that I go in there's
Speaker 5: no cell service. If you go in there and you
Speaker 5: break a leg or something you're just gonna be hosed.
Speaker 5: I just have a lot of roles and I don't
Speaker 5: break them.
Speaker 3: Has there been any other experiences while you're out doing
Speaker 3: your research or have you found anything that would either
Speaker 3: convince you or bring you closer to a conclusion if
Speaker 3: you were on the fence about whether these things were
Speaker 3: real or not or what people are experiencing out there.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 5: In fact, there was a p One of the main
Speaker 5: projects that I was pursuing last year was I had
Speaker 5: some harry Is mapped out that I repeatedly returned to.
Speaker 5: In fact, there was a few different camp areas that
Speaker 5: I spent pretty much the entire year at last year,
Speaker 5: and the idea was started putting out things like a
Speaker 5: little food and yefs apples and peanut buttery. This is
Speaker 5: stuff that people say bag Butt likes. The idea was
Speaker 5: I wanted to get them used to me being out
Speaker 5: there so they would affiliate my smell with the good things.
Speaker 5: They started that in early April, and it must have
Speaker 5: been about June, and there are a few of the
Speaker 5: members of the Sweet Homework were out with me on
Speaker 5: the weekend. And my main camp is maybe three hundred
Speaker 5: yards there's a creek that runs through there and it's
Speaker 5: done an embankment. And it must have been about six
Speaker 5: in the morning.
Speaker 4: We heard this really loud.
Speaker 5: Rocks blacking together, and that's a pretty distinct sound. Michelle
Speaker 5: and I were up it was, Yeah, it was about
Speaker 5: six in the morning. We were having coffee and there
Speaker 5: was two other members and I think they were still
Speaker 5: sleeping it. This rock clacking went on for about ten
Speaker 5: minutes at least, and finally I said something like, what
Speaker 5: is that? So we walked over to the bank to
Speaker 5: look down and check it out. Right when we got
Speaker 5: to the bank, at stopped and never started again. So
Speaker 5: I was doing my due diligence and looking for what
Speaker 5: kind of animals and banging rockstale and these would have
Speaker 5: had to have been big because we're up over the bank.
Speaker 5: Plus he had all the noise for the create and
Speaker 5: we heard that really clear and loud over that. The
Speaker 5: only thing that I wasn't able to find that clack
Speaker 5: rock staling like that. We're a ring tanks, of course,
Speaker 5: we don't have those here. So if you rule out
Speaker 5: what it can't be, you really end up with a saslot,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean? And then it was just
Speaker 5: like I think it was only about three weeks after that.
Speaker 5: I was out there in that same case, must have
Speaker 5: been about six thirty at night. I'd put some game
Speaker 5: cams out that day and I was just wrapped it
Speaker 5: up and put camp up, and I was sitting there
Speaker 5: and I heard a tree fall, just a tree fall
Speaker 5: in land. I thought, Wow, that's weird. How often in
Speaker 5: life are you there when a tree falls?
Speaker 3: And stay tuned for more sasquatch out to see. We'll
Speaker 3: be right back after these messages.
Speaker 5: And so I was texting Michelle with the Sweet Home group,
Speaker 5: and I was telling her about this tree. Later on,
Speaker 5: it was about one thirty in the morning. Something woke
Speaker 5: me up, but I don't know what it was. And
Speaker 5: it was up for maybe about an hour. About two thirty,
Speaker 5: I heard something walking around my camp and I just
Speaker 5: sat there quietly listening to this, and I could hear
Speaker 5: it take a few steps and it would stop, and
Speaker 5: then maybe five or ten seconds later, it would take
Speaker 5: a few steps and it would stop. But the weird
Speaker 5: thing about it was, See, when I was a kid,
Speaker 5: I used to camp in our pasture all the time.
Speaker 5: We had a cow down there, you know, I always
Speaker 5: knew when the cows came around, because cows are domin
Speaker 5: their carry ass, and so in the mornings, i'd peek
Speaker 5: out of my little sleeping bag and there would be
Speaker 5: this circle of cows just standing there looking at me.
Speaker 4: But these footsteps weren't hugs. That was what stet out
Speaker 4: to me at the time.
Speaker 5: It sounded more like some big, barefoot feet that were
Speaker 5: just walking because there's pine needles and things like that.
Speaker 5: In fact, I went back up there, it was probably
Speaker 5: that next weekend, and I took the goat throwing and
Speaker 5: around on the ground on stuff. See you could see
Speaker 5: exactly what kind of debreathe this would have been walking on.
Speaker 5: So anyhow, it's taken a few steps and it's stopping.
Speaker 5: It takes a few steps into stopping, and then I
Speaker 5: hear this crackling sound. I knew right away with the
Speaker 5: crankling sound was it was the plastic tark that I
Speaker 5: always put my tent off. There's usually about four or
Speaker 5: five inches that stick out underneath tent. Whatever it was
Speaker 5: had stepped on that plastic guitar inside the oh, whatever
Speaker 5: it is, it's right on the other side of my tent.
Speaker 5: But at the time I wasn't really thinking that much
Speaker 5: about it being in a squash. I thought maybe it
Speaker 5: was just something else. I don't know, a raccoon or
Speaker 5: something like that. But I thought it was just weird
Speaker 5: because the steps didn't sound like that. I remember that
Speaker 5: I had my tailgate flipped down because I flipped down.
Speaker 5: I use it for a camp table, and I always
Speaker 5: have these classic things that have on the food and
Speaker 5: stuff like that at them, and I thought, oh, I
Speaker 5: should probably run it off because it'll get into my
Speaker 5: stuff and then I'll have a big mess. So I
Speaker 5: did like a cat hissing sound when you try to
Speaker 5: run an animal or something out of your yard, you's yit.
Speaker 5: So I did that, and then it got quiet, and
Speaker 5: then I never heard it. Progressive night. I never heard
Speaker 5: anything until about six thirty. About six thirty six forty,
Speaker 5: I hadn't gone back to sleep, you know, got woken
Speaker 5: up pretty suddenly by a big loud crack. It sounded
Speaker 5: like somebody snapping a thick limb. So I jumped out
Speaker 5: and thought it was like one of those when some
Speaker 5: clown he makes a big gloud noise when you're sleeping,
Speaker 5: you wake up and you kind of shake it like that.
Speaker 5: So I had my breakfast and I thought, I'm not
Speaker 5: going to get any more sleep now. I was pulling
Speaker 5: out that day anyhow, so I thought I might as
Speaker 5: well just start breaking down cats. So I start breaking
Speaker 5: down cap and then I hear another one of these
Speaker 5: cracking sounds, and it was just up. He says, can't
Speaker 5: have a little road that goes into it, and the
Speaker 5: road has.
Speaker 4: To curve to it. And it came.
Speaker 5: From the same spot that I heard the tree fall
Speaker 5: the night before, and I thought, that's a little bit weird,
Speaker 5: and it was probably about the same thing that won't
Speaker 5: be up. And about five minutes later I heard another,
Speaker 5: and I heard another one. I heard the snap, and
Speaker 5: then you could hear something landing in the brush. By
Speaker 5: the time I got everything packed in my truck, I
Speaker 5: was just staying in the truck, and I was the
Speaker 5: very last thing I always do as I have my
Speaker 5: cat carpet and I throw it over my hood and
Speaker 5: I sweep it off. And I just swept that off,
Speaker 5: and I heard this crack again, it real loud, and
Speaker 5: I looked up the road and there was a big
Speaker 5: limb that came across the road. The landed right in
Speaker 5: that brush there. That was when things came together and
Speaker 5: I thought the GISTs that I thought was there's something
Speaker 5: there and it really doesn't want me there. So I
Speaker 5: thought that might be a good time to get out
Speaker 5: of there. Luckily, I had everything packed and I have
Speaker 5: my side arm that I keep, and I.
Speaker 4: Pulled it out because there's only one way.
Speaker 5: And when we out of this camp, and so I
Speaker 5: crept up in the truck, screw down the road. You know,
Speaker 5: I was half expecting to start getting limbs on the truck.
Speaker 5: Luckily that never happened, but I just managed to creep
Speaker 5: out of there.
Speaker 4: And then I stopped.
Speaker 5: When I got out to the road, and I was
Speaker 5: thinking about what to do, because what do you do then,
Speaker 5: I've never really quite had that wasn't really planned. And
Speaker 5: so I stopped on the road and I got out
Speaker 5: of the truck for a minute, and then I heard
Speaker 5: it again, but this time it was in the tree line.
Speaker 5: It was right off the road. Whatever was following me
Speaker 5: up there. So I just decided that I'm going to
Speaker 5: cut it short.
Speaker 4: So I just left.
Speaker 5: I figure what I'll do is I'll go back later
Speaker 5: see if I find anything, which I did, but then
Speaker 5: go back until that next weekend. I found plenty of
Speaker 5: broken limbs laid around there. It's just that in the
Speaker 5: different pincho you got to look for stuff like that
Speaker 5: and you see it all day long, but you don't
Speaker 5: really know what it is. It could be anything, and
Speaker 5: the grounds covered with broken limbs and stuff. But yeah,
Speaker 5: that was one of those where if you eliminate any
Speaker 5: animals and that break limbs and throw them around, that
Speaker 5: only leaves you one day.
Speaker 4: It leaves you about one choice.
Speaker 3: You mentioned it a couple of times before we get
Speaker 3: out of here. Talk about Steve Searches, your YouTube channel
Speaker 3: where people can find your stuff, what they're going to
Speaker 3: find when you get over there.
Speaker 5: Mostly, my two main public outreach sources are the Facebook
Speaker 5: page in its Steve Searches, then my YouTube channel, which
Speaker 5: is the same name Steve Searches. I have actually started
Speaker 5: a new project that is called Planet Sasquatch, and I
Speaker 5: started that facebooton group and i'd been working on the
Speaker 5: website for it. That's gonna be a little bit more
Speaker 5: of a comprehensive outlet. It's gonna be based on having
Speaker 5: things like gear reviews and a place specifically for researchers
Speaker 5: to gather and talk about what works and what doesn't,
Speaker 5: searching techniques and stuff like that. And then, of course,
Speaker 5: like I was saying, I've been working quite a bit
Speaker 5: with the sweet help Bregon Sasquatch Research Group. I've been
Speaker 5: working quite a bit with them, and they have some
Speaker 5: pretty interesting projects coming on. And of course you always
Speaker 5: see my stuff on the Sasquatch Highway is like I said,
Speaker 5: they let me post on that.
Speaker 4: That's pretty much it.
Speaker 5: I do have an Instagram that I don't post very
Speaker 5: often on it. I have a Fiota Steve surges dot
Speaker 5: Com that goes to a blog. I have a blog
Speaker 5: and I'd probably posted it once or twice a year
Speaker 5: or something like that. But I keep links some stuff
Speaker 5: on there too. And then of course coming out soon
Speaker 5: will be Planet Sasqatch dot Com.
Speaker 4: That'd be, like I said, pretty comprehensive website.
Speaker 3: It definitely sounds like it. If it's out when we
Speaker 3: get this out, I will definitely link to it in
Speaker 3: the show notes. Otherwise, I will have the link for
Speaker 3: the YouTube and the Steve searches dot Com in the
Speaker 3: show notes for you guys to go over and check
Speaker 3: out Steve stuff. Steve I appreciate you coming on and
Speaker 3: sharing your stuff with us.
Speaker 4: Man, Well yeah, thanks for having me. They say, you
Speaker 4: don't gotta go home, but you can't stay.
Speaker 2: Step Joy, this child, that chid everything. Call me Bricket
Speaker 2: back by back Joy for me, Joy staying right. You
Speaker 2: come it right away still six stept dot dot dots
Speaker 2: games steps US States gainst us usses