WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.000 Now one of your pudding. I got a string going 2 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:06.120 on here, something just cause my dog. Something killed your dog. 3 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:08.960 My dog. We're flying through the air over the tree. 4 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:13.640 I don't know how it did it, Okay, Damn, I'm 5 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:16.120 really confused. All I saw was my dog coming over 6 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:17.800 the fence and he was dead. And once you hit 7 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:19.679 the ground like, I didn't see any cars. All I 8 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:38.320 saw was my dog coming over the fence. Sat what 9 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:42.960 are you putting? We got some wonder or something crawling 10 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:51.759 around out here? Did you see what it was or 11 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:54.159 was it was? Standing enough. I'm out here looking through 12 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:55.920 the window now and I don't see anything. I don't 13 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:03.880 want to go outside. Jesus quice you bick hello, get 14 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.040 Someboddy out here when I'm out there. 15 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:07.040 I thought of a bit just. 16 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:10.480 About text nine. I don't know easy out there. Yeah, 17 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:11.519 I'm working right away. 18 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:14.200 All folks want to welcome o guest to the show. It 19 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:17.120 is Steve from Washington State. Welcome to the show man. 20 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:19.840 Thank you, thanks for the invite. 21 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:22.120 Absolutely, I'm glad to have you been looking forward to this. 22 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:23.959 So let's get right into it. Let's talk about this 23 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.719 bigfoot thing? What guy you interested in the subject. 24 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:27.359 To begin with. 25 00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:31.519 Probably the same way I think a lot of squatchers 26 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:34.879 get started. I've heard a lot of people talk about 27 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:37.959 the Patterson Gemlin film, and of course when I was 28 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:41.439 a kid, that was just coming out, and of course 29 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:45.719 that came along with a lot of other new documentaries 30 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:49.480 and things like that they'd be showing on TV, and 31 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:52.519 of course the idea was a little more new than 32 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:55.959 and of course that kind of changed everything with that film. 33 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:59.040 And then there were some other movies that came out 34 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:02.359 not too long after that. One notably was The Legend 35 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:04.920 of Boggy Creek, and I've heard a lot of squatches 36 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:07.879 of my generation that kind of got them interested because 37 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:10.479 that just good. Everybody we go to school and talk 38 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.560 about that movie. So it was more of a curiosity 39 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:17.080 most of my life as I was growing up. But 40 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:20.599 I grew up on a farm in Montana, so I 41 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:22.719 grew up out in the country and spent a lot 42 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:24.319 of time in the woods. In fact, when I was 43 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.159 a kid, I used to go out in our past 44 00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:30.080 year and camp by myself and got used to that. 45 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.039 That's why even to this state, when I go out 46 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:34.280 in the woods, I'm usually solo. 47 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:38.280 Then fast forward the calendar about twenty years when I 48 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:42.159 moved away from Montana. I ended up Spokane for a 49 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:45.439 short time here in Washington State. Then I went in 50 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:48.560 the military. I spent most of my twenties on the military, 51 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:50.840 and when I got out, I went to school for drafting. 52 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.680 My first job, actually my internship, which turned into a 53 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:57.719 regular job, was as a map maker. A lot of 54 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:01.479 people have heard of people turning their hobbies into professions. 55 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:03.840 This was the other way around. I actually turned my 56 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:07.159 profession into a hobby. So later on, after I left 57 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:10.560 that job, I was drawing maps for a PUD. I 58 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:14.120 kept the map make on is really more of a hobby, 59 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:16.960 but I also work contracts on the psych drafted maps. 60 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:21.039 So I went into mechanical design, but I kept mapping. Then, 61 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:25.360 roughly about twenty ten, I had gotten involved in the 62 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.120 missing Persions cases, a local case where an eight year 63 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:32.960 old boy had disappeared from a school. I got involved 64 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:36.120 with the search parties. Mostly what I did I shot 65 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:38.599 video and photographed. There's a lot of events, a lot 66 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:39.680 of publicity about it. 67 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:41.960 Now, before we go any further, I want to take 68 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:44.919 a minute and talk about something that has absolutely nothing 69 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:48.560 to do with Bigfoot. And look, I know what you're thinking, 70 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:50.960 Why are you bringing up a missing person's case in 71 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:54.319 the middle of a sasquatch interview. The simple answer is 72 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:56.639 because I was a cop for many years, and I 73 00:03:56.680 --> 00:04:00.000 also host a true crime podcast called The Guilty Five, 74 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.759 and this case has haunted me for years. And Steve 75 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:05.680 just told us that he worked with the people who 76 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:09.240 investigated the disappearance. I plan to cover this case on 77 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:11.960 The Guilty Files in the coming weeks, So if you're 78 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.080 into true crime, check out the show. The case of 79 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:17.639 Kyen Horman is one of those stories that just burrows 80 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:21.160 into your brain and refuses to leave. And I think 81 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:23.600 it's important that we keep talking about cases like this 82 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:26.279 because the moment we stop talking about them is the 83 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:30.040 moment they disappear from public memory. And this little boy 84 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:33.639 has already disappeared once. He doesn't deserve to disappear again. 85 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:38.040 So here's what happened. On the morning of June fourth, 86 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:41.600 twenty ten, a seven year old boy named Kirene Richard 87 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:43.959 Horman woke up and got ready for what should have 88 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:47.560 been one of the most exciting days of his young life. 89 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:51.240 It was Science Fair day at Skyline Elementary School in Portland, Oregon. 90 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:54.439 Kiren had put together a display about the red eyed 91 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:58.879 tree frog. Seven year olds love weird animals. It's basically 92 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:03.240 a law of nature. His stepmother, Terry Horman, drove him 93 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:05.240 to school that morning instead of putting him on the 94 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:08.399 bus so he could set up his exhibit early. They 95 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:11.399 walked through the science fair together. Terry even took a 96 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:14.839 photo of Kyrone standing next to his project, this big 97 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:18.639 proud grin on his face. That photograph would become one 98 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:21.879 of the most recognized images in Oregon history, and for 99 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.879 all the wrong reasons. According to Terry, she last saw 100 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:29.199 Kyron walking down the hallway toward his second grade classroom 101 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:32.720 at around eight forty five that morning. She said, she 102 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:35.360 left the school, loaded up her one year old daughter, 103 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:38.600 who had been with them, and headed out. She claimed 104 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:40.759 she spent the next couple of hours driving around the 105 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:44.040 heavily wooded West Hills area near the school because her 106 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:46.839 daughter wasn't feeling well and the driving helped soothe her. 107 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:51.720 Here's the thing, though, at ten am, Kyne's teacher marked 108 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:55.480 him absent. He never made it to class, but nobody 109 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:59.720 called home. Nobody flagged it. In a world where we 110 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:01.680 can try track of pizza from the oven to our 111 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:04.600 front door. In real time, a seven year old boy 112 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:09.040 simply vanished from inside a school and nobody noticed for hours. 113 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:12.439 It wasn't until three point thirty that afternoon, when Kirene 114 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:15.639 didn't get off the bus, that the alarm was finally raised. 115 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:19.720 Terry and Kyne's father, Caine Horman, who had been at 116 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:23.639 work all day, rushed to the school. A school secretary 117 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.480 called nine to one pint one, and just like that, 118 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:29.680 one of the most baffling missing persons cases in American 119 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:33.519 history was under way. What followed was the largest search 120 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:38.439 and rescue operation in Oregon history. Over thirteen hundred volunteers 121 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:42.800 and law enforcement officers from Oregon, Washington, and California fanned 122 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:46.240 out across the area. They searched the dense woods around 123 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:49.720 the school. They searched Soviet Island about six miles away. 124 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:54.279 They searched properties and outbuildings and sheds. They searched for 125 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:58.920 ten straight days. They found nothing, not a shoe, not 126 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:02.600 a scrap of clothing, not a single trace of Kien Horman. 127 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:05.639 And this is where the case takes a turn that 128 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:10.240 honestly reads more like a crime novel than real life. 129 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:13.439 Less than two weeks after Kiren disappeared, police stopped the 130 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.680 search and made an announcement that sent chills through the community. 131 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:20.720 They upgraded the case from a missing child investigation to 132 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:24.800 a criminal investigation, and they publicly stated they did not 133 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:28.639 believe Kien had been abducted by a stranger. Read between 134 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:32.600 the lines on that one, folks. The investigation zeroed in 135 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:36.480 on Terry Horman almost immediately, and the reason started stacking 136 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:41.120 up like cord Wood. First, her story had problems. She 137 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:44.800 said she left Kiren walking toward his classroom, but four 138 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:48.360 separate witnesses reported seeing Terry leading Kyen back toward her 139 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:53.240 truck that morning after the science fare. Four people. That's 140 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:58.480 not a misunderstanding, that's a contradiction. Second, her cell phone 141 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:03.199 records raised red flag. Investigators determined her phone data didn't 142 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.279 match up with where she claimed to be that morning. 143 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:08.519 She said she was driving around the West Hills, but 144 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:13.079 the data suggested otherwise. Third, and this is a big one, 145 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.959 Terry failed two polygraph examinations in the days immediately following 146 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:21.959 Kyroene's disappearance. Then she refused to take a third. Meanwhile, 147 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:26.600 Kyene's biological mother, Desiree Young, his father Kane, and everyone 148 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:30.680 else connected to the case passed their polygraphs without issue, 149 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:35.000 and then things got even stranger. Three weeks after Kien vanished, 150 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.440 Caine moved out of the family home. That same day, 151 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:42.159 Terry made two nine to one one calls, one classified 152 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:44.440 as a threat's call and the other as a child 153 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:49.519 custody call. Then came the bombshell. A landscaper who worked 154 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:53.279 for the Horman family, a man named Rodolfo Sanchez, came 155 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:56.919 forward and told investigators that about five months before he disappeared, 156 00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:59.879 Terry had approached him and offered him money to kill 157 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:03.879 her husband. Five months before her step son vanished, she 158 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:09.000 was allegedly shopping for a hitman. Investigators actually wired Sanchez 159 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:11.559 up and had him confront Terry while wearing an audio 160 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:14.879 surveillance device, but she didn't take the bait and they 161 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:18.480 couldn't make an arrest. And here's where it gets even wilder. 162 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:21.799 It was later reported that this wasn't even the first 163 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:24.919 time Terry had been investigated for a murder for higher plot. 164 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:28.200 She had allegedly been looked at for trying to hire 165 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.039 someone to kill a boyfriend before she even moved to Portland. 166 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:36.039 Three separate murder for Higher investigations, and yet to this 167 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:40.320 day she has never been charged with anything. Caine filed 168 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:44.320 for divorce. Desiree Young filed a ten million dollar civil 169 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:48.600 lawsuit against Terry, accusing her of being responsible for Kyron's disappearance. 170 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:52.360 She eventually had to drop it because investigators told her 171 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.000 it was interfering with their criminal case. A grand jury 172 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:03.600 was convened, witnesses were subpoened. Cane testified, Desiree testified, the 173 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:07.320 school principal testified, but by the end of twenty ten, 174 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:10.360 the grand jury had failed to produce a compelling enough 175 00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:14.200 case for an indictment. Terry, who has since remarried and 176 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:18.440 now goes by Terry Vasquez, has always denied any involvement. 177 00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:22.039 In twenty sixteen, she went on Doctor phil and floated 178 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:24.159 a theory that a man in a white pickup truck 179 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:27.799 had kidnapped Kirene. That remains one of the only times 180 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:31.600 she has spoken publicly about the case. Meanwhile, the search 181 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:35.159 costs ballooned to an estimated one point four million dollars, 182 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:40.559 Over four thousand tips poured in, and yet fifteen years later, 183 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:44.279 not one single piece of physical evidence has ever been recovered. 184 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:51.679 No body, no clothing, no DNA nothing. Kyen Horman simply 185 00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:54.919 ceased to exist on the morning of June fourth, twenty ten. 186 00:10:55.879 --> 00:10:58.080 Now I want to be careful here because nobody has 187 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.679 been charged in this case. Terry Horman is legally a 188 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:05.799 person of interest, not a suspect, and she maintains her innocence. 189 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:10.519 But I'll say this, when you've got four witnesses contradicting 190 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:13.879 your story, cell phone records that don't match your alibi, 191 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:18.200 two failed polygraphs, a murder for higher plot against your husband, 192 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:22.080 and you were the last known person with the missing child, Well, 193 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:25.279 the math on that doesn't look great. A close friend 194 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:27.960 of Terry's name Dede. Spicer, was also working in the 195 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:31.720 West Hills area that morning and was reportedly unaccounted for 196 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:34.759 by her co workers for a couple of hours. That 197 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:37.480 detail has never been fully explained, and it's one of 198 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.159 those loose threads that drives investigators and true crime followers 199 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:45.720 absolutely crazy. In twenty seventeen, a secret grand jury was 200 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:49.799 still hearing evidence in the case. Law enforcement conducted additional 201 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:54.120 searches along Skyline Boulevard that year, but again came up empty. 202 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:57.639 The original detectives on the case have all since retired, 203 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.960 for years, the investigation appeared to be losing momentum. But 204 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:05.159 there's a reason I'm bringing this up now because there's 205 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:08.720 some new developments that are worth paying attention to. In 206 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:12.279 twenty twenty five, a new Moultnomah County District Attorney named 207 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:15.840 Nathan Vasquez took office and made the Chien Horman case 208 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:19.799 a priority. He ordered a thorough, methodical review of the 209 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:24.440 entire case with fresh eyes. The Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, 210 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:28.320 working alongside Gresham Police detectives, has spent the past year 211 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.799 digitizing and reorganizing every piece of evidence in the case. 212 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:37.000 We're talking thousands upon thousands of pages of reports, photographs, 213 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:40.919 and evidence being scanned and converted into a modern digital format. 214 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:44.720 And here's the part that gives me some cautious hope. 215 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:49.600 Once that digitization is complete, the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit 216 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:53.919 is stepping in to re examine everything. These are the profilers. 217 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:57.919 These are the people who analyze statements and narratives and evidence, 218 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:02.120 who look for behavioral patterns and inconsistencies, and who compare 219 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:06.759 cases against similar investigations nationwide. They're going to go through 220 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:11.000 every witness statement with a fine toothed comb, looking for contradictions, 221 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:14.600 looking for things that were corroborated, looking for gaps that 222 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:18.480 might have been overlooked the first time around. Now a 223 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:21.840 former prosecutor named Jeanine O'Neil Robbin has been doing her 224 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:25.480 own digging into this case, and she's raised some concerns. 225 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:29.039 She obtained records showing that the Sheriff's office only logged 226 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:31.360 about two hundred eighty seven hours on the case in 227 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:35.080 fiscal year twenty twenty three, three hundred seventy one hours 228 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:38.039 in twenty twenty four, and just twenty nine hours in 229 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:40.720 the first three months of fiscal year twenty twenty five. 230 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:44.679 Those aren't the numbers of an agency actively building a case. 231 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:48.159 Those are the numbers of an agency fielding tips as 232 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:51.559 they come in. But the renewed effort under the new 233 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:56.320 DA and the FBI involvement could change that equation dramatically. 234 00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:00.279 As of right now, in early twenty twenty six, the 235 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.639 case remains officially open and active. There's a fifty thousand 236 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:09.120 dollars reward for information leading to its resolution. Kirene Horman 237 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:13.039 would be twenty three years old today. The National Center 238 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.360 for Missing and Exploited Children has released age progressed images, 239 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.080 estimating what he might look like now. He had brown hair, 240 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.919 blue eyes, wore glasses, and had a distinctive V shaped 241 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:28.039 strawberry birthmark on his forehead. His mother, Desiree Young, has 242 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.799 never stopped fighting. She has become an expert on missing 243 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:37.200 persons cases, speaking at law enforcement gatherings, organizing annual fundraisers 244 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:40.840 to fund continued searches, and building a circumstantial case that 245 00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:44.639 she presents publicly at events like True Crime Fest Northwest. 246 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:48.799 She has a loyal following of supporters called Kirene Horman's 247 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.759 World Soldiers, who maintain a Facebook presence and produce content 248 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:56.600 keeping the case alive. She also worked with author Rebecca 249 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:59.480 Morris on a book called Boy Missing that details the 250 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:03.000 case and and the reasons she suspects Terry Horman. And 251 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:06.000 that right there is why I brought this up, Because 252 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:10.279 somewhere out there, somebody knows something. That's how these cases work. 253 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:15.120 Somebody always knows. And sometimes it takes sixteen years for 254 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.279 a conscience to catch up with a person. Sometimes it 255 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:21.840 takes a new set of eyes on old evidence. Sometimes 256 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:25.159 it takes technology that didn't exist when a crime was committed. 257 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:29.159 If you have any information about the disappearance of Chiron Horman, 258 00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:32.879 you can contact the Moltnomah County Sheriff's Office tip line 259 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:36.759 at five three nine eight eight zero five six zero. 260 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.200 You can email tips at MCSO dot us, or you 261 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:44.320 can contact the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children 262 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:47.559 at one eight hundred Do the Lost. Now that I 263 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:52.120 thoroughly depressed you, let's get back to Bigfoot and stay 264 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:54.320 tuned for more sasquatch Ott to see. We'll be right 265 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:55.840 back after these messages. 266 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.639 Then, I think it must have been about twenty eighteen, 267 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:06.159 twenty nineteen. Somebody in one of the groups said we 268 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:08.480 should have one of those drones, and drones were in 269 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:11.360 their infancy a little bit more. Then in about twenty 270 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:15.559 twenty I decided to integrate drones into map making, so 271 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.480 that just melded together. Then it must have been about 272 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.639 twenty twenty one when I moved over here from Spokane. 273 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.320 I started to kind of get interested in the Bigfoot 274 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:26.200 stuff a little bit more. But a lot of that 275 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.639 was because it's the culture here. There's a lot of 276 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.399 Bigfoot culture, and there's a lot of Bigfoot stuff here. 277 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.720 I started hanging around up in the Gifford pinch On 278 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:38.759 National Port went up to Mount Saint Helens and I 279 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.320 had an experience. One must have been about about two 280 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.919 thousand and eight, and I was up in an area 281 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:48.080 called Eight Cave, which is really only a few miles 282 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.679 as the crow flies from a place called Aiden Valley, 283 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:53.120 and of course Ayton Valley is the area where a 284 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:54.720 lot of people have heard the story. There was some 285 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.480 miners back in the twenties had a cabin there and 286 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:00.000 they got ran out by what they called They were 287 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:04.240 calling them sasquatch. Then they called them Harry devils. That 288 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:06.920 was just what they came up with. I was up 289 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:10.599 there one time. Where eight Cave is, there's a main 290 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:12.839 entrance and then there's a trail and that goes to 291 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.319 a further entrance, and between those two there's a big 292 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:19.319 open area. It's not a clearcut like there's a lot 293 00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:21.680 of open areas up there with they're clearcuts, but this 294 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:24.200 is up it's a big open area that's right over 295 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:25.880 top of the Eighth Cave and there's a lot of 296 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:28.240 volcanic rock there and I used to go and poke around, 297 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:30.200 climb around on those rocks. And one time I was 298 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:34.599 up there and everything just got really weird. Are we 299 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:39.240 just standing there? Everything just got really quiet. Anybody that's 300 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.000 been up in the different pinchild they know it's not 301 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:44.200 a quiet place up there. There's birds going and gets 302 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:46.240 windy up there. But all of a sudden, you could 303 00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:50.079 hear a pin drop. I smelled something really bad, and 304 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.000 it was weird because I was right out in this 305 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:57.359 open area, so I wasn't really even close to the 306 00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:00.680 tree line, but you could smell this really clearly. It 307 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:03.480 smelt like, you know what a horse smells like. You're 308 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:05.880 standing right next to a horse, and a horse has 309 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.440 a smell of its own. The only thing that I've 310 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.920 smelt before that smelt anything like that, or camels. Of course, 311 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.680 camels they're a lot stronger than a horse, and this 312 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:16.440 was like that. But I could still right out in 313 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:19.319 this open area, and I just had this idea that 314 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:23.279 there's obviously something wrong up there, but you can't see. 315 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.400 You don't know what it is. 316 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.720 But I kept thinking, there's something right in that tree line. 317 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:31.720 It's just that feeling they yet that you can't explain. 318 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:34.839 After that kind of stuck in the back of my mind. 319 00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:37.480 A few years later, I must have been in about 320 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:40.440 it was twenty twenty or twenty twenty one. I'd ran 321 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:43.680 across in a restaurant. There was some Bigfoot researchers that 322 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:46.359 had gathered there. I think it was like a meetup 323 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.440 or something, because they had a little sign on their table, 324 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.160 and I got to talking with them, and let's tell 325 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:53.759 them that I was a mat maker and I used drones. 326 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:55.920 By this time, I was using drones for mat making. 327 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.160 They were asking me how much i'd charge them because 328 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:02.200 they had an area and they found some structures and 329 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:05.599 prints and some interesting things, and they were asking me 330 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.519 what I would charge them to go and drone and 331 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:09.799 map the area for him, and I told them, heck, 332 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.680 I'd do that for free. That just sounded like fun. 333 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.000 So I did a little pro bunnel job for him. 334 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:20.079 And then by that time, after the interaction with them, 335 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:22.839 I started hitting all the squatch fests and all the 336 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.680 Bigfoot festivals. So I wanted to learn more about what's 337 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.519 going on here. Read that Jeff Melderm's buck. Yeah, then 338 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.240 I just I almost just fell into it. And then 339 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:35.240 it must have been about twenty twenty three. I had 340 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.799 taken a missing person case out of Boise, Idaho. It 341 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:41.720 was a little older case that it dawned on me 342 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:46.279 that I should have some sort of Internet presence so 343 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:50.640 families that needed those types of services to find me 344 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:52.119 and get a hold of me. So that's when I 345 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.960 started Steve Surges. That's what I pretty much operate on 346 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.039 it right now. I have Steve Searches out of a 347 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:01.039 YouTube channel and a Facebook page. Just go on YouTube, 348 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.400 look for Steve Searches and they'll find all my material. 349 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:06.880 So I started doing more of the bigfoot stuff because 350 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:09.279 it was just more readily available. You could just go 351 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:11.680 out here. You can just go out and find bigfoot 352 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:15.599 things everywhere. You can find bigfoot people, and you can 353 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:19.920 go online, you can find groups. So then last year 354 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:23.359 I started going out and spending the night up in 355 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.319 the Gifford Pinchow started spending nights up there, So it 356 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:29.519 didn't take long for me to start running into more 357 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:31.279 people that were interested in. 358 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:32.000 What I was doing. 359 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.039 Because I thought, hecked, if I'm going to be doing this, 360 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:38.279 I'm going to be out here all this time and 361 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:42.000 solo camping and looking for a big hairy monsters, I 362 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.920 might as well just get a GoPro and just record 363 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.079 the whole thing. You know, just sticking on the YouTube 364 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:49.519 and people want to watch it, they can watch it. 365 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:52.839 If not, who knows where it's going to go. So 366 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.960 early last year, must have met about February or March. 367 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:01.200 I was contacted by Michelle he of the Sweet Home 368 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.079 Oregon Sasquat Research group. They have a Facebook group. She 369 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:09.599 had some interesting ideas and it invited me to go 370 00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:12.279 with her and some of her people out in Oregon 371 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:14.359 for a camp out. So I did that and we 372 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.839 all got to be pretty good friends. So I've been 373 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:20.920 working pretty closely with them for this last year. They've 374 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.039 joined me on a few outings up at Mount Saint 375 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.799 Helens and I go down there once in a while 376 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:28.559 and join them and help some of the stuff they 377 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:31.680 have gone on. They've supported me quite a bit. They've 378 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.759 allowed me to post my videos in their group. And 379 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.640 then there was another group that we encountered that was 380 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.279 a bigger group. It was called the Sasquatch Highway and 381 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:43.680 they've been really supportive too. They openly let me post 382 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:45.440 all of my stuff there and I've gotten a lot 383 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.880 of attention from these. So that's how I got into it. 384 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:52.759 So now you actively go out and do what you 385 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.640 would call investigations or your own research into these things. 386 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.920 What is your approach to the research? Are you coming 387 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.640 from a this is a big hairy ape in the woods. 388 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:06.759 You're an aper, you're in the flesh and blood camp. 389 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:09.920 Do you get into the high strangeness of the WU 390 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:13.079 What is your approach when you go out doing your 391 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:15.480 solo camps looking into the subject. 392 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.559 When I first started going out and pursuing this, I 393 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:22.880 had read, like I was saying, Jeff Melderm's book, and 394 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.000 I stuck with the science only philosophy. But then when 395 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:29.319 I started running around with the sweet Home group, they 396 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.359 have a lot more diversity as far as they have 397 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.160 some not necessarily people that are their research group, but 398 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:39.079 people on their Facebook page and stuff. I wouldn't have 399 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:41.839 really entertained the idea of partoles and things like that 400 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:45.880 five years ago. But now I'm thinking that I may 401 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:48.640