Speaker 1: One of the really cool things about doing what I
do is you get to meet with sometimes and talk
with people who become intellectual heroes to you. And I
don't have very many intellectual heroes because I try not
to have human heroes. But intellectually speaking, Greg Glassman, founder,
former CEO of CrossFit, is that to me.
Speaker 2: This is a.
Speaker 1: Guy who observed in a multi billion dollar industry of fitness,
no one could actually say what fitness meant. So he
put this amazing scientific mind with which God has gifted
him to work and figured out how would you define
fitness and then how would you achieve it. People who
don't understand the basis of CrossFit don't understand that that's
the way it disrupted the fitness industry by actually defining
the thing people were seeking. Greg joins me in the
studio today to talk about a number of things. First
of all, a huge tragedy that happened in CrossFit, the
drowning of an athlete. I think you find what Greg
says about this balanced and fair and emotional, and I
was taken aback. He's become a friend of mine and
I rarely see this form of emotion from him. But
the athletes in that sport. He loves him. He also
has good friends who still help run CrossFit. But Greg
came here to talk about science and how it's been destroyed.
It's been destroyed by money seekers, people who are willing
to lie in scientific studies. They did it to Greg.
They did it to him to try to take a
CrossFit out. Greg beat them in court, and my judgment,
he's the first to really destroy Big Sugar in court.
Speaker 2: You'll hear about that.
Speaker 1: Do all this with the help of renewed Healthcare and
with God Almighty.
Speaker 3: The Todd Herman Show is one hundred percent disapproved by
big pharma technocrats and tyrants everywhere. No from the high
mountains of Free America. Here's the Emerald City exile Tod Herman.
Speaker 1: So today is a day the Lord has made, and
these are the times to which God has decided we
shall live. And sitting here with me, my friend, I
am so honored to call you friend, Greg Glassman. We
met just through I guess, the happenings of God. People
said you should talk to this guy Herman. He did
some things, the Rush Limbaugh connection, and I got to
show you run Idaho, you and your family and who
came up here show you knew an old Idaho. You
told me that day. We're friends now, and that meant
so much to me. I never anticipated meeting such a
kind and unffacing, unassuming man.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that. Thank you, and you know it
really is a.
Speaker 4: Had I not done CrossFit, were you not Todd Herman
doing Todd Herman things, we still would have met. Because
it was the crowdingers that I ran into at North
at forty and fell in love with their dog, Gus.
I actually been all the way to my house in
Santa Cruse and jumped into the koi pond after the koi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I met I met them.
Speaker 4: And they knew you, and it was a pretty kind
of an.
Speaker 2: Old school meeting.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well it's been a blessing. And you made some
predictions when you create a CrossFit that people said could
never happen, and I want to talk up that. I
want to talk quickly about the games this year, this
this tragedy with a lizar Jusic and what happened there.
I was sitting here chatting with Greg Glassman, and I
know we're going to talk today about the corruption of
science and how it's been corrupted for money. Corruption follows money.
The love of money is the root of all evil.
The love of money. Now, my friend Zach Abraham, the
chief investments a capital management He doesn't love money, He
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Speaker 2: Of your life.
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Past performance isn't contery future results. Truck twenty four Dash
three seven eight. You predicted you could produce athletes who
could squat five hundred pounds and turn around and run
if correct, If I'm wrong, a sub five minute mile,
could perform high level gymnastics, and could do all these things.
Given your thesis as CrossFit, that CrossFit is constantly varied
functional movements performed that high intensity in order to perform
increase work capacity across broad time and modal spectrums.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's close. Yeah, that's Close's nervous that.
Speaker 1: To the creator of that, I'm nervous, but that came true.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, the first fundamental theorem of CrossFit is
that constantly very high intensity functional movement would increase work
capacity across broad time and modal domains. Got Okay, Yeah,
it's very close, close enough, and.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: That went, that went unchallenged, and so people had every
kind of problem you could imagine with CrossFit, but no
one said that's wrong. And with time, what I would
what comes to be what you're hearing there in constantly
very high intensity functional movement increases work capacity across broad
time and mortal domains. What we have is CrossFit in
the constantly very high intensity functional movement and fitness in
the increased work capacity across broad time and modal domains.
Now what's important here is that we are going to
call an increase in work capacity across broad time and
mortal domains. We're going to define that as fitness, and
you have a right to do that. Definitions aren't right
or wrong. They're consistent or inconsistent. They're useful or not,
they produce utility or not right. And so you know,
if you're going to call if you're going to call
that house plant a tiger, I'm okay. As long as
I know that when you say tiger, that's what you're
referring to, that Ficus benjamina or whatever it is, we
can we can still communicate. But what we did was
we adopted work capacity across broad time and modal domains
as a definition of fitness. And then what we told
the world is that this will have application for any
and all activities, and that in fact turned out to
be true. And the expression of that in local communities,
and what I mean by expression, the application of that
concept to your friends and neighbors in the barn gave
living proof to the to the very concept. And so
without looking for Japanese string quartets traveling internationally or heavy
metal bands, they came forward to say they were crossfitters.
And this is true of astronauts, football players, rugby players
to fill in and get war fighters right, are proud.
It's huge, sponders, huge.
Speaker 1: Huge thing in the CrossFit community. And my point I'm
bringing this up is part way to bridge into you
come from a scientific background, given the virtue of your
families and your minds. The minds of your parents will talk.
Speaker 2: About that.
Speaker 1: There are people who have special needs kids and this
happens that they have to adjust their expectation for their kids,
and this is really hard for parents. Parents say, well,
my kid's going to be he's going to go to
my college and he's going to pursue my profession, and
when they find out the kids have are non neurotypical,
a lot of times for parents that can be oh
my gosh, and it's a difficult thing to adjust. Expectations
doesn't mean that you stop loving, you stop pushing, stop believing.
For parents of kids who have special needs, for them
to understand that Alan has it really tough. He's effectively nonverbal.
He has at eighteen operations. He's only fourteen years old.
He works, He invents soap. He works at the company
in quality control. His brother Ian is impacted by autism.
He works, He contributes Amy who got late on set autism.
She's thriving, helping with social media, et cetera. She was
told she's hirable and the soap is of pristine quality.
There's no way John would put his son's name on
a soap that sucked. So they researched a family. They
found him in the Midwest. They are three generations into
the soap crafting world. That's what that's all they do.
They took on the fragrances that Alan thought of, that
came from special memories for him.
Speaker 2: They create.
Speaker 1: Those soaps are all natural, they're made in America to
give this to families with kids with special needs, partic
of the younger kids. It's a side of hope and
every time they wash their bodies they can remember that. Yep,
our kids too can work. Our kids can contribute. What
the word saying is not true. So go to alansoaps
dot com slash todd. That's Alan soaps dot com slash todd.
Let me just ask you though the games, this tragedy,
Lazar Jusic, he drowns. You know, I looked at the
numbers on this triathletes drowned. It happens sadly, sort of
commonly first death and CrossFit. Horrible tragedy. But as a
guy who ran it and founded it, what'd you make
about that?
Speaker 4: It's it's tragic, and my heart goes out to the
athlete and his family, the people loved ones he leaves behind,
of course. But then, you know, as the as the
morning eases and you move forward, I think it's imperative
that you look at two aspects of this and treat
them somewhat independently. The first would be, why did we
not pull Lazarre onto a paddle board within seconds?
Speaker 2: Why did that not happen.
Speaker 4: And if you don't pay attention to that, I think yourresponsible,
foolish and mature, and probably shouldn't be weighing in at all.
If you think that's all that's important here, then similarly,
I think you're foolish and immature and irresponsible. There's more
to it than that, though, that is important and independent
of the other aspect. And the other aspect is why
does a professional water polo player in the prime of
his fitness in life drowned on the finish line of
a nothing race. Athletes die in sport. Swimmers don't die
at swim meets. And when you look at those triathlon deaths,
and boy, you know, theres are made the list of
a multi sport and triathlon athlete deaths within hours of
being passed away. But if you look at that list,
and there's an inordinate number of the people that have
died in water. And the typical kind of scenario is
someone in their forties to sixties at a triathlon where
there isn't been a screening to the extent there was here.
And so this was a professional event of professional athletes,
and and they lost a kid tragically, and they got
to figure out both. We need to know what happened
to the lizaar that he fell under the water, and
that may have been something that would It may look
like perhaps he should have been decued from even being
in a competition, But I don't know.
Speaker 2: We'll have to know.
Speaker 4: Something went horribly wrong for a professional water polo paper.
Everyone else came out of the water running. Okay, here's
a guy that couldn't couldn't do it at the end,
and so there was some kind of crisis, I would presume.
And in terms of the rescue, I want my responders
the expectation would be and I know Dave would feel
the same that, Yes, you don't care if the person's
dead or cramping. You want them onto the board and
towards help as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, Dave is he was a Navy seal.
The you know the ethos there is you don't leave
anyone behind, you never live. Urther on, if Dave was there,
he would have been in the water. I mean, if
he was there, Dave would have polled was out.
Speaker 2: Of the water himself.
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't have any doubt about that. I don't
know him well, but you do so from CrossFit, you know,
and this tragy. Thanks for responding to that.
Speaker 4: I want to add one piece to this, please well,
I think it's important, and that is we learned from
our support of infant swim resource that is, CrossFit was
huge in the space of infant toddler child drowning and
we committed an enormous amount of resources to that of
every sort imaginable, from attention to cash. And I have
ten kids, and nine of them have been through the
ISR program. Could swim before they were six months old,
would float at least. And there's a myth of hypervigilance
that with enough tension on someone, you're gonna prevent him
from drowning.
Speaker 2: And it's just not true.
Speaker 4: And I can give you story after story after story
of hyper vigilant mothers losing a child's drowning. And I
mean as simple as is put a kid on the floor,
turn around, put the bottle and refrigerator, turn around.
Speaker 2: The kids gone.
Speaker 4: There's a search of the room, the house, the other rooms.
There was a doggy door behind the bookcase. The kid
made a five foot crawl out the door was in
the pool. They didn't find him till it was too late.
And you know that's hard. But Dave's going through a
lot of that. I mean, he's tortured by this, of
course he is. Yeah, I knew he would be. I
knew he was ill prepared for this, because nobody is yeah,
there's nothing, there's no there's no amount of kicking indoors,
killing terrorists that's going to prepare you for someone drowning.
Speaker 2: While you're watching, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And but the community, community will survive it.
Speaker 2: It won't be the last time. Either.
Speaker 4: Someone's going to have a heart attack on a rope
climb and then the rope climb is going to be dangerous.
You know, it happens. I remember once and I said
this would be an inside It'll be quick. I remember
once watching a client after a long warm up start
a process of a beginning warm up for a run
at bench and we had ninety five pounds on the
bar and he was just gonna moment we were moving
in the direction of like four twenty five, four point thirty.
Speaker 3: Just.
Speaker 4: Reaching down towards the bar. He ah, did that classic
reach behind? Yeah, And I'm like, dear God, David, another's
six inches and it would have been a deadlife accident.
But as it was, it was what what happens to
people you know? And so things happened, and something happened
horrible to the bizarre and they didn't catch it. Time
to pull him out and everyone feels bad.
Speaker 1: Thanks for commenting on it to December thirty. First, do
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todd or Bonefrogsellers dot com slash todd. You got attacked
using bad science. Big Show came at you. This is
when I probably the first time people started calling you
about me is I did an hour on this on
Russia and Bass Show. God rest the maha about you
getting attacked by Big Sugar, and you beat them. You
destroyed them in court and they had effectively faked up
research to show that CrossFit injured people more commonly than
global gems. And the way that I mean, the way
you found this out was emails and finnartsic discovery when
I think the principles were saying, we don't have these emails,
and then it went before the judge and the judge
basically ordered a different firm to come in and do
forensic accounting of the emails. And can you tell a
little bit about how they faked up that science because
this can bridge us into the Broken Science Institute.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the National Strength and Conditioning Association published a study
that should cross It was remarkably effective, but it is
at an unacceptable cost due to injury and on cursory
examination of the figures, what I saw was, I think
it was a sixteen percent injury rate, and there was
no other dropouts from the program.
Speaker 2: And I knew, damn well, if you.
Speaker 4: Expose people across the CrossFit, you'll lose twenty five percent
that are just going to go home aware of what
it's going to cost to be fit and don't want
to participate anymore. So there should be a quarter that
just disappear because that's not for me kind of thing.
But they had sixteen percent injured in no walk away,
and so I said, we need to look more closely.
And it didn't take long until we found that that
this just wasn't true, that it hadn't happened that way,
and we then immediately just started going down the core
the Committee on the COPE, Committee of Publishing, Research, publishing ethics,
whatever it is that we went by this international agency
standards for what the responses should be to studies that
you know, to be fabricated or falsified or playsarized, and
we called their attention to it, and they just let us,
knowing certain terms, that they were going to do nothing
about it. And so we did something that.
Speaker 2: Had never been done before.
Speaker 4: I retained, had kept hinder constant retainer. Smile because my
relationship with Lathan Watkins is long, profound, close and something
I'm proud of. But Lathan Watkins brought a team of
Manhattan white shoe attorneys to Ohio and set up camp
in this in this little town and deposed every single
person involved in this study, every single person.
Speaker 2: This was millions of dollars.
Speaker 4: I mean, these guys are making four hundred and fifty
dollars an hour, and you got a team of them,
and they're and they're they're living there, right, And they
deposed everyone involved.
Speaker 2: And so we had the.
Speaker 4: Reality and we asked for some emails. They said they
didn't exist. We had some of them. We showed the judge.
She got pissed off and ordered a forensic evaluation of
their servers, cell phones, iPads, and they started destroying equipment iPad,
cell phones, we don't have them computers.
Speaker 2: But it didn't work.
Speaker 4: They still we still got our hands on an amazing
tranch of material. The National sent Conditioning Association had more
emails on CrossFit than CrossFit had on its servers about CrossFit. Wow,
they knew more about us than we knew about ourselves,
and they told the judge they didn't see as a competitor.
But the guy that testified to that effect had we'd
seen an email that was his competitive analysis of CrossFit.
He came to the sert, he set on his own dime,
but we had an email where he was asking to
be reimbursed for his going on this trip. And so
then the federal judge just started referring to him as
the perjurer in the case. But she said this was
the most egregious behavior that she'd seen in thirty five
years on the bench, and this is someone had sent
people to jail forever. Now, mind you, this was also
going on in the state court because early in the
process I referred to the NSCA and the American College
of Sports Medicine is soda hores.
Speaker 2: So they they sued me for that.
Speaker 1: Gosh sued you for calling him soda horse.
Speaker 4: Indeed, and Russ Green and CrossFit by name, Russ Green
by name, and maybe Russ Berger was in there too,
So we all got picked up in this suit and
state court for calling him soda horse. My attorney's line
was calling someone a whore doesn't have any meaning. And
I during this deposition interjected, Oh, I have a meeting.
I'll tell you exactly what I mean by big guy roll.
And here it king and it's it's taking cash for
for unethical, immortal, hidden secret activities, is what it is.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: That's what That's why I'm calling you a soda horse.
But they said they didn't have any interaction with soda.
We showed some interaction with soda, and the stay judge
demanded a forensic review of their servers again the same
we got it from the state court.
Speaker 2: And he also let us know.
Speaker 4: That he was aware of the perjury in the in
the federal case.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: And what it happened was that one of the guys
that perjured himself.
Speaker 2: In the in the.
Speaker 4: In the federal case admitted in deposition in the state
case is to having lied before and at these judges
were the federal judges and the state judge were both
in San Diego, and the question as to whether they
may have contacted one another became immediately apparent that these
guys were trying in state court. What they what they
were losing at in federal court incredible, And so we
got inference sanctions that granted us all the particulars of
the case, and that was the the uh falsification and
fabrication of data. And in fact we got all all
the even the tiny elements that you disseminated. This international
disinformation crossed state lines that it would be natural and
right to presume that this would hurt. It did indeed hurt.
I mean every element that was needed that you'd have
to and so our Lathan Watkins guys are going, I've
never seen anything like this. We were handed every element
everything we'd want to prove. There's there's nothing left to adjudicate,
there's nothing less to litigate other than penalty. At this point,
we were handed every single.
Speaker 2: Part of this.
Speaker 4: Incredible and it took academic interest, caught academic interests for
this reason. It was there have been.
Speaker 2: There's a hall of fame.
Speaker 4: In fact, this is part of what we collected broken science.
But there's a hall of fame of scientific misconduct stunts. Yeah,
there's a taxonomy of it. You can go by nationality
or by field Alzheimer's research or coming from Egypt or
whatever you like.
Speaker 2: There's a there's an enormous.
Speaker 4: Body of work in that in that space, but it
typically in every case seemed to involve one or two
miscreant sciencests within an organization. Specifically, while at a university,
you're in some kind of you know, international body. But
what we had with the NSCA was an entire organization
committed to a scientific misconduct, you know, procedurally almost statute.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Also also with with funds that couldn't be explained. They
turned their pockets inside out, got nothing. Judge orders them
to give us four million dollars within thirty days, and they.
Speaker 2: Come up with it. I mean, how did that happen? Yeah?
Speaker 4: And it was funny because I'm going, where the hell
did they get the money? And I go, maybe we
shouldn't take it because it could be illegally, dishonestly gotten.
In my turns of th stop, just take the money.
We know where they got it. We know they got it.
They got it from from their sugar daddies. Isn't that perfect?
They got it in their sugar dady.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it.
Speaker 4: They couldn't those organizations couldn't keep their lights on without
their soda support.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I tripped across a product that I'm holding. It's called wisdom,
and the fact I haven't taken this today, and I
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One of the things in CrossFit is no sugar the
RX diet, and I won't risk doing the definition in
front of you. I know it, I live it. You've
actually had me. You've seen me drink sugar water, and
I apologize in front of you for that. But it's
just huckleberry lemonade. And right right, So this happens, you're
exposed then to wow, academic skullduggery, lying, frauds, perjury, and
then we get to this era. If you're watching this,
by the way, on YouTube, I'm about to we're entering
into a portion of the discussion YouTube will not allow,
so you can go to video dot Todd. Herman show
dot com get a seven day free trial. You could
look at this. This is we're going to enter into
discussion that's banned on YouTube. Okay, the COVID era comes about,
and a couple things happened at that point. You put
out a tweet and it was related to George Floyd,
and you said, oh, great, now we get directly. Yeah,
now we get Floyd nineteen. I know what you were saying.
I looked at that and said, Greg is making a
commentary on this is a very sad thing. This This
man had a sad life. This is sad that a
man died.
Speaker 2: I know your heart.
Speaker 1: But you're also saying, Okay, now we're going to get
We're going to take this case and pretend this is
happening all around the world. It's going to be blown out,
pretending that this is common everyday thing, like they did
with COVID. And that's what I saw from it. Maybe
I'm said that I hadn't meant you yet.
Speaker 4: Let me give my quick perspective on this. I Chimmy
was in this country was Imperial College in Europe in London.
But the Ihimmy at University of Washington, Seattle had led
in the model production that forced this lockdown and the
silly mass and everything else we went through promoted a
vaccine that was far from.
Speaker 1: Ready unless it was ready and to do what it did.
Speaker 4: Their role in what went wrong was critical, and it
came about through some science. And when their models failed
and were failing publicly and obviously, rather than come back
with I'm sorry, they doubled down and said they were
now going to turn their models on the disease of
police brutality. And it was at this point that I said,
you mean what like Floyd nineteen And my follow up
tweet was an extended quote that I had pulled from
the CDC on a study that I pulled from their servers,
and it was a retrospective historical analysis of the impacts
of quarantine. And what they said was that in all ages,
in all cultures, and everywhere, all cultures, all ages, and everywhere,
quarantine ends with race riots. And I quoted that, put
the quotes around it, tested it myself, pulled the quote,
threw it into Google, took me right to CDC property,
CDC dot gov. There I am That tweet was called racist,
and what we had we got our race wars.
Speaker 2: By the way, our race riots we did.
Speaker 1: We got something else. The IHIME was funded by Bill Gates.
Bill Gates at the time this was going on with
spending and to some people this is a lot of money,
four hundred million dollars to go get positive media coverag
show he could be the Papa of the vaccines, the
mRNA injections, which in my judgment are not vaccines. Then, Greg,
we also had in in England. You mentioned the organization
over there. I believe his name is Neil Ferguson is
he was. He was wrong on mad cow disease. He's
been wrong, monumented and always on aids, always in this,
always in the direction of catastrophizing things. And remember this,
he and his adulterous girlfriends went trapesing about London after
positive tests. So this comes up and your scientific minds
is looking at all this.
Speaker 4: But I'm hanging in with Peter Gauchier, who was one
of the co founders of the Cochrane Collaboration, who has
publicly called out Bill Gates in his foundation and his
HPV vaccine as being far from a good thing. And
I'll keep you out of any kind of band turf.
But when I had Peter out to my house. I
knew that he had challenged the authorities on mammograms for everyone,
starting with little girls, right and beneffective. He had called
into a fact the science behind all psychoactive medications. He
had specifically pointed out that antidepressants in pedes creates suicide
in significant numbers. And so this is my buddy I'm
hanging with. And I told him, dude, you're gonna.
Speaker 2: Get whacked, and he did.
Speaker 4: He did, They got rid of him, and he was
accused nefariously, nebulously of improper contact and attitude and comments
around women, but with no particulars ever to come about.
Speaker 2: And we had guys like Gai and I and not.
He's saying, I may not.
Speaker 4: Agree with Peter on everything. That's John being a I
may not agree with him on everything. You don't agree
with anyone on everything, So that doesn't need saying. What
he's saying is there's views he has that I would
prefer not to be.
Speaker 2: Have pinned on me.
Speaker 4: And that would be most of them, honestly, like the
question on mammograms, like the HPV vaccine, like the vaccine
industry in general.
Speaker 2: Right on and on and on.
Speaker 4: But Ian Otti said he's the most important medical researcher
in all of Europe. He didn't matter, he got sense,
he got censored, and then John got his. John paid his,
he got he's been he's been semi banished to the hinterlands.
Speaker 1: You were watching this with these cloudracobra people. I was
watching it from a perspective of media. And I'll tell
you something, Greg, I never thought I would see this day.
I'll never forget this in morning radio. Those two doctors
from Bakersfield, California, remember this. They held a press conference
and all they said was, look, none of this makes
any sense. They said, the CDC has the biggest largest
meta analysis of analysis on masks, six studies forty eight years,
including a trip to Mecca. Masks don't stop the transmission
of upper respiratory viruses. That's a conclusion from the CDC.
They had the lockdown thing. They mentioned that quarantines, we
have the Spanish food. They went through all this, and
then they said the death rate from this is a
survival rates ninety nine point eight four percent. Unless you're
super sick and super old and super fat. This isn't
going to kee you.
Speaker 2: Greg.
Speaker 1: I saw that press conference. I went to my producer
grabbed this and he's grabbing it and he gets to
Mayerga's todd. They just took it down. It was down
Facebook and we had to chase it and get to
Bitshoot to get it. And I'm looking at this watching
this happen. Here's where broken Science, I think can save
academia lives is establishing what actually is science because I
learned it's the science.
Speaker 2: Greg.
Speaker 1: I didn't know there was such a thing as the science.
But let's start with what is. Isn't there some process
or something and take us through the Broken Science Institute.
Speaker 2: What you're doing.
Speaker 4: Defining science is critical, and it would shock you to
find out how few people, even amongst scientists, can give
any kind of reasonable sense of what science is. And
that's a national tragedy. The sad part of that is
that it's it's really crazy, simple, wonderfully elegant, and you know,
you resist, everyone resists a quick nap conversion of that.
But we need that in order to communicate to people
what science is, because science is one of these endeavors
that you cannot know science until you know what it
isn't it may be it may be unique in that regard.
I wouldn't tell you studying the clarinet to know how
it's not like the French horn.
Speaker 2: Maybe I've got that wrong, maybe it is that way.
Speaker 4: But in the space of science, we find ourselves committing
an inordinate amount of effort to making sure that everyone
understands what science isn't. And so are you asking me
to take that jump to give the quick because and
it's kind of fun, dude. I almost hate doing it
because I like asking people, especially in groups, what science is.
And this isn't my parlor trick. I learned this from
my own man watching him do it. But you can
take a room full of scientists and ask them what
science is and put it on the board, accept everything
they give you. Now throw astronomy an astrology up and
my dad would take the role of the astrologer. And
I'm now going to accept everyone's definition that you've put
up here, element by element and tell you how it
is exactly what I do is an astrologer. And the
truth is, until you put that lineup of the predictive
strength of your models, until you see that you have
not found the demarcation, and that philosophically is critical if
anyone's going to take anything away at all, is that
science earns our trust, science finds validation, Science holds its
objectivity in the predictive strength of its models.