WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.279 Today's presenting sponsor as Simply Safe. Home security July means vacations, 2 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:05.240 long weekend and beach days. While you're out having fun. 3 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:06.919 You want peace of mind that comes with knowing your 4 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:07.679 home is protected. 5 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.359 That's why Simple Yeah. 6 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.160 Sounds of affirmation. All right, Okay, yeah, no, it's really good. 7 00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:18.640 Simply Safe protects you. It covers your exterior blind spots, 8 00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:21.600 astory of the strongest first line of defense when your 9 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:25.039 attention is maybe elsewhere. With Simply Safe, you can customize 10 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:26.760 your system to fit your needs. It's more than just 11 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.039 a security camera. It's a comprehensive system of sensors into 12 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:31.559 an outdoor cameras twenty four to seven professional monitoring the 13 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:33.079 I Guide its set up as simple and there is 14 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:37.439 no drilling required unless you request it, so you can 15 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:40.119 install and arm your system in under an hour. No 16 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:43.719 long term contracts or cancelation fees. Monitoring plans started around 17 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:45.759 a dollar per day. Our CEO recently had a Simply 18 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:49.200 Safe system installed in her home. Installation was kick and easy, 19 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:50.640 and the system was up and running in no time. 20 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:52.840 It It's worked smoothly since day one. It gives the 21 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:54.880 family total peace of mind to see who's dropping by, 22 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:56.799 or you can easily chat with visitors through the camera 23 00:00:57.119 --> 00:00:59.880 even when you're away. We've partner with simply safe to 24 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:02.520 for an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now, you 25 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:04.359 can get fifty percent off your new system by visiting 26 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:07.079 simply safe dot com slash crooked. That's half off at 27 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:10.319 simplysafe dot com. Slash crooked. There is no safe like 28 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:11.120 simply Safe. 29 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:14.239 This summer, America celebrated its two hundred and fiftieth birthday. 30 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:16.359 But if you actually sit down and read the Declaration 31 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:18.920 of Independence, you'll notice something wild. Buried right near the 32 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:21.319 end is a brutal rant about and this is a 33 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:25.560 direct quote merciless Indian savages. As it turns out, relations 34 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:28.000 with Native nations weren't just a footnote in the American Revolution. 35 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:30.879 They were central to it. Think about the Boston Tea Party, 36 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:34.239 the colonists literally disguised themselves as Native Americans. Later, the 37 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:37.159 country's very first attempt at a government collapsed, largely because 38 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:40.159 it couldn't handle the sheer power and sovereignty of Native nations. 39 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:43.159 First America is hosted by journalists Rebecca Nagel, who hosted 40 00:01:43.159 --> 00:01:47.400 Crooked's excellent This Land podcast, along with leading Native historians. 41 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:50.840 It completely reframes howard democracy was actually built, which feels 42 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.400 pretty relevant in our current political moment. Find First America 43 00:01:54.519 --> 00:02:14.800 wherever you get your podcasts. 44 00:02:19.240 --> 00:02:20.360 Welcome to pots of America. 45 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:22.919 I'm John favrec I' John love it, Tommy Vietor new 46 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:25.759 studio looking good, guys, and if you're listening to this, 47 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:27.919 only you're good. This is the moment that you're gonna 48 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:31.120 want to watch us on YouTube. Subscribe to the Potza 49 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:33.199 of America YouTube channel because we have a brand new 50 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:33.840 studio here. 51 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:35.520 It's awesome, all refurbished. 52 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:36.199 Look at this. 53 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:38.879 I know it's exciting. All right. 54 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:41.520 On today's show, we're going to talk about the democrats 55 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:44.879 new twenty twenty eight primary calendar, which puts South Carolina 56 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:47.479 first and has already set off a debate about who 57 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:50.120 that helps. We'll also talk about one Democratic leader who 58 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.639 seems beyond help, DNC chair Ken Martin, the subject of 59 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.759 not one, not two, but three leak filled stories about 60 00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.439 the party's financial crisis. Then we'll cover Trump's trip to 61 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:02.120 Michigan in the Senate race there, as well as the 62 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:05.280 latest with the Iran war and the biggest bombing of 63 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:08.360 the weekend, the President's performance at the rescheduled White House 64 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:11.960 Correspondence dinner. Finally, Ben Wickler stopped by the studio to 65 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.000 talk about the DNC drama that was Constant Gubernatorial primary 66 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:18.240 Drama and his brand new drama free book. This is 67 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:21.560 the plan, all right, guys, Let's start with the biggest 68 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:24.039 news from over the weekend that will impact the outcome 69 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:27.280 of the twenty twenty eight presidential election. We have a 70 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:28.319 new primary calendar. 71 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:28.960 It's here. 72 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:33.120 On Friday, the DNC's Rules and by Laws Committee voted 73 00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:36.800 to make South Carolina the first primary state on January 74 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:40.560 twenty second, twenty twenty eight. It will tentatively be followed 75 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:43.879 by Nevada on February first, New Hampshire a week after that, 76 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:47.360 New Mexico a week after that, Michigan the next week, 77 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:51.319 and finally Virginia on February twenty ninth, before a bunch 78 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:54.280 of other states vote in early March on Super Tuesday. 79 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:56.479 The new calendar still has to be approved by the 80 00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:59.759 full DNC, which will meet next month, but there's already 81 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:02.800 one potential stumbling block. New Hampshire has a law that 82 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:06.360 requires the state to go at least one week earlier 83 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:10.280 than any other state primary. The DNC's proposed solution is 84 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:12.719 for the New Hampshire Democratic Party to fund and hold 85 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:16.600 its own primary that's separate from the official state primary. 86 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:19.879 But it doesn't sound like New Hampshire Democratic leaders are 87 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:22.480 on board with that plan just yet, or. 88 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:24.480 Republican leaders or Republican leaders right. 89 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:28.240 There's also been some grumbling from a few progressive activists 90 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:29.839 that they're putting stuff. 91 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:30.639 I say a. 92 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:33.920 Few because actually this is like progressives upset with South 93 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.120 Carolina and then it's like a Jacobin op ed and 94 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:38.160 like one comment from Hassan Piker, but there's a few 95 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:42.319 progress Yes, yes it was because I did my diligence. 96 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:45.399 I started writing, and I'm like, Okay, this headline is great. Anyway. 97 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:48.000 There's been some grumbling that putting South Carolina first gives 98 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.959 an advantage to more moderate establishment candidates, But we'll get 99 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:53.279 into all of this before we get into what we 100 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:56.240 think about the proposed calendar. Do you guys want to 101 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.839 talk about why this is such a big deal and 102 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:01.279 how much you think the earliest state calendar matters. 103 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:04.519 I'm just nostalgic for when we were in Iowa rigging 104 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:07.560 the caucus for booting ENSI and this didn't work. 105 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:08.480 This is the things we get. 106 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:10.360 Yeah, we probably shouldn't have rigged it for him to 107 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:12.480 only be revealed like four or five days later. 108 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:16.279 But anyway, so much for Iowa to misstep. Yeah, I 109 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:16.560 was got. 110 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:18.600 I mean, I think the early state calendar, in its 111 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:21.000 totality just could not be more important. It's the whole 112 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:24.399 ball game from the Obama perspective, like Obama's not the 113 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:28.199 nomine if he doesn't win Iowa because it gave us 114 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:30.120 a huge momentum and it made people over the country 115 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.279 believe that he could win. But also it taught us 116 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.160 how to organize and we put in place those organizing 117 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:38.600 practices in all the future caucas states and mopped up 118 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.639 delegates againstillary Clinton as we went forward, so kept paying 119 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:44.759 out dividends during that long, drawn out, awful primary process. 120 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:48.240 The order will also determine, you know, what policy areas 121 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:50.519 get highlighted, like, for example, Iowa being first meant that 122 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:53.079 we talked about ethanol, probably far too much for far 123 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:53.560 too long. 124 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:55.360 That will now we may never talk about him again. 125 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:57.360 It may not be as big of an issue we 126 00:05:57.439 --> 00:05:59.879 know of New Mexico, a southern border state. We'll see 127 00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:02.759 if immigration is more salient this time around. In Michigan, 128 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:05.240 we'll probably hear about autos and unions. In Virginia, maybe 129 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:06.720 doze is an issue again, right, you have a lot 130 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:09.439 of government employees in northern Virginia. It also gives more 131 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:12.480 power to different demographics and you know types of voters, 132 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:13.680 older voters. 133 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:14.360 White voters, black voters. 134 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:14.519 Right. 135 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:16.439 So that's been a big part of the conversation that 136 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:18.000 we'll get into in a minute. But I do think 137 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.839 like figuring this out is essential and it really does 138 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:23.839 help and harm specific candidates. 139 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:27.360 So I'm a counterpoint. I don't know that I agree 140 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.120 with that, So I think you're right. The schedule in 141 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:36.040 early two thousand and eight was very important, in part 142 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:40.319 because Iowa was perfect for Barack Obama to prove that 143 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:44.000 despite being a black candidate, he could put together a 144 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:47.199 coalition of white voters that were hyper engaged, and we 145 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:51.399 built a great organization on the ground. Had Hillary not 146 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:55.160 had a surprising win in New Hampshire, it probably would 147 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.680 have been over sooner. But that allowed the race to 148 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:00.680 go back and forth. But it's interesting is the way 149 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:03.399 the race ultimately goes back and forth. It was told 150 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:06.879 as a momentum and narrative, but in reality it was 151 00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:12.279 often more about the demographics of the voters in each state, 152 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:14.959 kind of ricocheting back and forth, as like the fundamental 153 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:18.000 dynamics of the race didn't shift. On the other side, 154 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:19.959 you have Joe Biden. 155 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:20.879 Becoming the nominee. 156 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:24.639 He loses in Iowa, he loses in New Hampshire, but 157 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:27.600 he says, wait for South Carolina. He's able to overcome 158 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:32.920 those early losses because they had set expectations, and he 159 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:35.240 comes out of South Carolina with so much momentum that 160 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.240 he's able to clean up on Super Tuesday and become 161 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:43.160 the nominee. So I do think it's important to me. 162 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:45.319 What I think is the most important is where the 163 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:48.680 actual swing states fall in the schedule, right where Michigan is, 164 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:52.199 for example. But sometimes I think we get into this 165 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:55.279 idea of the order of states mattering, when in reality 166 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:59.720 it's partly about the order but also about managing expectation 167 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:05.639 and how campaigns fare over the next few contacts. It 168 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:07.279 can winnow, but I don't know if it's like a a. 169 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:09.759 Diffs such as orders New States too. I mean, like 170 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:12.240 let's say if it was instead of South Caroline, Atlina 171 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:15.279 and Nevada, Newmpshire, was Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona. Like, that's sort 172 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:17.240 of what I'm getting. Yeah, having these new states in 173 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:19.720 there will just change the issues and demographics. 174 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:23.000 Yeah, there's two factors here. There's order and then there's states, right, 175 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.800 you know, I do think I think you can make 176 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:30.879 an argument that order doesn't matter as much as everyone 177 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:33.840 thinks it does. I think that which states, the composition 178 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:36.279 of the states in the early window is hugely important. 179 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:38.240 Yeah, that's what I was getting in a speciality of them, 180 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:41.559 and especially now that there are five, I think. 181 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:45.480 You're probably going to have a slower momentum build over time. 182 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.799 But if you have five states in the early window 183 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:52.639 before Super Tuesday, and the two last states are very 184 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.159 big states like Michigan and Virginia, both of which are 185 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:57.399 also going to be competitive states in the general election, 186 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:00.360 especially Michigan, you are going to know a lot by 187 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.279 the time Super Tuesday rolls around about who can put 188 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:08.159 together a campaign that could win almost any demographic group 189 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:12.279 in any region of the country. And like, I find 190 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:16.840 it hard unless you now we Democrats award delegates in 191 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.000 each of these states proportionally, unlike Republicans do a lot 192 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.000 of winner take all states, so they might who knows, 193 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:23.879 they might change that for twenty eight as well on 194 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:27.559 their side, So you could see a situation Super Tuesday 195 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.960 and beyond where it's like an Obama and Hillary. 196 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:31.200 Fighting out a delegate battle. 197 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:34.759 But I tend to think that having five states go 198 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.360 and that many states and that many votes in that 199 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:39.600 period of time is going to pretty much tell you 200 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:42.679 who's the who's down by the time you get to Superdoo, right. 201 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:45.080 Right, They all like, by the time you get through 202 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:49.879 those early states, you've been in whiter states, you've been 203 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:51.759 in Latino states, You've been a state with a bigger 204 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:54.759 African American population. By time you get to Michigan, you 205 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:57.440 have some like sort of prominent urban areas that have 206 00:09:57.480 --> 00:09:59.159 been you know, strongholds for Democrats. 207 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:01.639 You've gotten a good sense of the entire picture. 208 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:03.840 Could you achieve that same thing if you did swap 209 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:06.480 into Texas? In Oklahoma, Texas is a big Hispanic population, 210 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:09.600 It's also a border state. Oklahoma is a very white electorate, right, 211 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.279 might bring out more hyper engaged Democrats in the same 212 00:10:12.279 --> 00:10:14.679 way that say, like in Iowa would in the past. Whatever, 213 00:10:14.919 --> 00:10:16.960 I think the part of the reason South Carolina was 214 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:18.480 able to play such a big role in twenty twenty. 215 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:21.519 Is Biden said explicitly, wait for South Carolina, you can't 216 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:23.399 become a demo. You will not be there will not 217 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:25.919 be a Democratic president who doesn't have strong support among 218 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:28.799 African Americans. And then he wins so handily in that 219 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.039 state that kind of proves that case, and he kind 220 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.519 of is able to march onto the nomination after in. 221 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:36.080 Terms of how much it matters, though, Like you got 222 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:41.159 to imagine every single campaign in waiting is after Friday's 223 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:44.679 announcement is like now finally starting to plan their strategy. 224 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:47.799 I mean like it is everything for a campaign knowing, 225 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:50.080 oh god, the state's go first and in order. It's 226 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:51.639 like every decision is made around that. 227 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:54.320 Where you travel, what operatives you hire, like yeah. And 228 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:56.000 also there were people who are talking about waiting until 229 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:57.279 after the midterms to figure this out. 230 00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:58.480 I was like, what are you talking about? You can't 231 00:10:58.480 --> 00:10:59.360 possibly do that. Yeah. 232 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.279 When I saw that, some of the progressives were like 233 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:02.679 sort of and I had the same things. 234 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:03.919 Who's actually upset about this? 235 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:06.720 But you know, oh, South Carolina is a boon to 236 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:09.639 more moderate candidates. Well, that's sort of about what you're 237 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:11.840 saying about the African American electorate not being as far 238 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:15.559 to the left as some like the more sort of 239 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:19.399 the wider part of the of the Democratic base. But 240 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:21.440 now for the first time, you might have instead of 241 00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:26.919 candidates spending six months in you know, Atkrew White Iowa, 242 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.480 you're going to have people spending months and months and 243 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:31.240 months in South Carolina. And it's like, well, that's a 244 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:33.320 great opportunity for the left to prove that they can 245 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:36.519 appeal beyond their sort of online and sort of more 246 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:38.759 less diverse audience. 247 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.960 With Iowa and New Hampshire finally being dethroned as the 248 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:44.279 first two contests, how do you guys think that changes 249 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.000 the race and strategy of these campaigns. 250 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.279 Well, it's just worth point of the Both states actually 251 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:51.159 have laws on the books mandating their place in the order. 252 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:53.799 The Iowa law says the caucuses have to be held 253 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:56.360 at least eight days before any other primary or caucus. 254 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.480 Iowa officials currently want to punt on that fight until 255 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:01.759 after the mid terms for whatever reason, but we'll see 256 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:03.679 what they do. I kind of don't think they're going 257 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:05.720 to fight it. New Hampshire is going to go down 258 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.360 swinging in part because you have a Republican governor who 259 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:11.320 is not going to agree to move it, I don't 260 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:13.399 think the day of the primary. So then they're going 261 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.759 to be asked to pay for a party funded primary. 262 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:20.039 And if they don't, I mean there's real consequences. I mean, 263 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.639 if a state party refuses to abide by the rules, 264 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.039 the penalties are now they lose all their delegates at 265 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.679 the twenty twenty eight convention. That's up from losing fifty 266 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:30.080 percent of your delegates, and they have to pay a 267 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:32.360 two hundred and seventy thousand dollars fine and lose DNC 268 00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:34.840 membership voting rights until the fine is paid off. So 269 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:36.200 that's pretty serious for them. 270 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:37.320 And there's penalties for the candidates. 271 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:39.399 It's even worse for the candidates. You lose all your 272 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.200 delegates from the entire early state nominating window and you're 273 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:45.399 prohibited from a participating in DNC. 274 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:46.840 Rule like todata. 275 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:49.679 So New Hampshter's going to put on a party run 276 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:52.799 a separate party run primary, or else they are just 277 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:56.600 going to take themselves out of the early state window altogether. 278 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:58.840 That those are the only two options because no one's 279 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.919 going to deal with these panels the state of New Hampshire, 280 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:04.600 the candidates, and so I think what they're all grumbling 281 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:06.960 about right now, and what I saw like Kathy Sullivan, 282 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:09.600 who was a former New Hampshire Democratic Party chairwoman, because 283 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:11.200 I had asked about this on Twitter and she replied, 284 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:13.360 She's like, look, we have we're trying to spend money 285 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.120 to elect two members of Congress in twenty twenty six 286 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:19.000 and a senator to hus members and a senator, and 287 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:21.600 now we're going to need all this money to put 288 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:24.320 on a primary Like that is a big undertaking. So 289 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.639 I'm sure maybe some of this will be bargaining to 290 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:28.799 try to get some money from the DNC, which we'll 291 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.240 get to just to put on the primary. 292 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:32.639 But that is a big it's you know, it's a 293 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:33.039 big deal. 294 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:36.320 There's a possibility if New Hampshire bows out because they 295 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:37.639 don't have the money, they don't want to do this. 296 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:41.120 The only other Northeastern state that applied that would slide 297 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:44.600 into that slot is Delaware, which is kind of interesting. 298 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.360 Do you guys like where the DNC landed on this 299 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:50.000 group of states in this particular order. 300 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:55.519 I would have liked more swing states, but look, I 301 00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:58.159 am not maybe like I just I have so much 302 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:01.799 PTSD from two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, 303 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:05.639 where the calendar was treated as being this very, very 304 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:08.759 important thing, when in reality, the experience of working for 305 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:11.120 Hillary Clinton in that period was she would always do 306 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.200 do well enough that she could justify going to the 307 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:14.960 next contest, but not so well as to change the 308 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:19.440 dynamics of the race. And to me, I'm glad, like 309 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:22.639 I'm glad Michigan's there. I think it is actually good 310 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.559 that you no longer have this situation where the first 311 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.279 two contests that draw so much attention in time for 312 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:33.799 so long are these very white places that don't reflect 313 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:37.399 the broader Democratic electorate. But beyond that, I do think 314 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:39.759 in the end, part of the strategy is where you compete, 315 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:42.440 but also part of it is just how you tell 316 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:44.639 a story about where and when you're going to do best. 317 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:47.320 So I look, I'm sad to see I will go 318 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:49.759 because I know all the downsides of Caucasus, We've talked 319 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:52.240 about them, but there is It forces you an invest 320 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:56.480 in organizing, It forces you. It incentivizes a nicer brand 321 00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.000 of politics because you want to be your opponent's second 322 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:00.799 choice for reasons, don't have to get into so I 323 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.279 think that will be missing that. Actually I reached out 324 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:04.679 to a bunch of people who worked in politics just 325 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:06.960 to like get their opinions on what they'd seen, and 326 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:10.279 their responses range from it's good and I like it, 327 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:12.480 it's impossible to know yet because of New Hampshire too, 328 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:14.919 this is going to boom around, boomerang back on us 329 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:17.799 and be a disaster. So what was the argument for 330 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.960 that that it's just going to be messy. New Hampshire 331 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:24.919 are going to screw everything up once we get to 332 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.799 Northern Virginia. You're going to have like DC, you know, 333 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:31.639 media market spend, people like making a big determination and 334 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:33.399 it will just kind of be a mess and who 335 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:36.080 the hell knows about what New Mexico wid whatever, Like 336 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:39.960 just one person's opinion I felt. My personal take was 337 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:42.000 I feel like the DNC and the RBC did a 338 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:45.360 pretty good job of navigating a very challenging process. I 339 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:47.679 don't think the New Hampshire piece is solved in any way, 340 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:49.759 share or form. I think we're whistling past the graveyard 341 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:51.639 on that, and that's something that's going to have to 342 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:52.120 give there. 343 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:55.720 The thing is gonna get What do you mean, Like. 344 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.080 I just I think New Hampshire is going to fuck around. 345 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:00.200 They don't have the money to pay for this aready 346 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:02.480 run process, and the Republican governor is not going to 347 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:04.320 move the state. So I just I don't know what's 348 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:05.200 going to happen here. 349 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.320 I think, can you end up with a primary where 350 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:10.679 just the the candidates don't participate? 351 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:11.080 Right? 352 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:13.639 I mean Joe Biden won New Hampshire with a write 353 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:15.279 in and they head the delegates didn't right, Like it 354 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:15.600 was like that. 355 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:16.159 No, but that's it. 356 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:18.559 It's either they find the money to put on the 357 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.600 primary or they're out. There's no other out, you know 358 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:23.799 what I'm saying, Like that's and it's just it's going 359 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:25.000 to be up to them to figure out if they 360 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:25.840 can get the money or. 361 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.159 You have the DNC threats work. No major candidates actually 362 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.600 go there. But there's super packs muck around in New 363 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:34.039 Hampshire and stage right in efforts so they can show 364 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:35.159 strength and they get new. 365 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.120 Cycles at it. Right, So there's all these weird ways 366 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.360 that they can kind of mess around. So who knows? 367 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.000 On South Carolina? 368 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:42.080 I mean, I think South Carolina being first, I agree 369 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.480 with you, like South Carolina first isn't like a massive change. 370 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:46.559 I think it's a reflection that black voters are the 371 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:48.480 base of the party, either half of the primary elector 372 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:50.200 right there. I think the talk of what you always 373 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.360 hear from South Carolina people is we have the track 374 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:56.360 record of actually picking the nominee with who we vote for, 375 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:57.960 and like, that's true, but that's because they went the 376 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.240 field was winnowed, and then it gets to South Carolina, 377 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.320 so they voted for you know, South Carolina voters picked Obama, 378 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.720 Clinton and Biden. My guest is South Carolina will now 379 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:08.720 just kind of be the winnower. It will be the 380 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:12.519 filter function that Iowa, New Hampshire were. I do agree, 381 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:14.119 it's a real bomber that it's just it's not about 382 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:16.160 ground state like you do all this organizing in these 383 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.839 early states and then the candidates never go back to them. 384 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:20.319 Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. 385 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:23.200 And look, the reason that is is because the laws 386 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.559 already in the books, and if you look for other 387 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:28.119 states with heavy populations of black voters to go first, 388 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:30.839 you have to find a state with a Democratic trifectus. 389 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.000 They can move the primary date and it's a whole mess. 390 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.400 So I sort of feel the same about South Carolina. 391 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:37.799 But I think they did. I think for South Carolina 392 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:40.759 going first, they did a really good job of then 393 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:45.119 balancing out the rest of the calendar because you have 394 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:48.279 I mean, they have diversity, all kinds of diversity, right, 395 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:54.200 racial diversity, geographic diversity, ideological diversity. I also like that 396 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:58.759 the first four states are small states, and so the 397 00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:01.319 kind of retail can painting that you got in Iowa 398 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:03.359 New Hampshire, and this will be true if Delaware takes 399 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:07.720 New Hampshire spot you get. So you'll have South Carolina, 400 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:12.240 which is a relatively small state, Nevada, same thing. New Mexico, 401 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.920 which is a brand new to this process, which is 402 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:15.480 pretty small. 403 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:16.960 I just don't know what to think of that one yet. 404 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:21.119 It's New Mexico is interesting. So you have in that state. 405 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.880 New Mexico's overall voting eligible population is forty five percent Hispanic. 406 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.319 That is the largest percentage of any state in the country. 407 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:33.359 They also have a significant Native American population. Is that's 408 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:35.039 the first time that we have in early state with 409 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:38.200 a pretty significant Native American population. Like you said, tell me, 410 00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:39.920 it's a border state, which I think is great. We 411 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:41.880 have a democratic trifect there, so they should be able 412 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:46.359 to move that no problem. It is more non college 413 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:48.720 the voters there than some of the other states, which 414 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:50.640 I also think is helpful because you're going to want 415 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:52.799 to prove that you can win non college voters and 416 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:57.000 not just not just highly college educated voters. That you 417 00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.319 get a New like you get a New Hampshire. 418 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:00.880 What is the different function than of like in their 419 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.720 theory that Nevada plays versus New Mexico's No. Mada also 420 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:08.519 has a big Latino population. It is compared to other states, 421 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.880 a lower percentage of college voters. Also has Las Vegas, 422 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:13.720 which is a huge important center for unions. 423 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:14.200 Right is that? 424 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:14.319 Like? 425 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:15.079 What is the different? 426 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:15.240 Like? 427 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:17.240 What is the what is other than just this is 428 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:19.640 how it shook out, And I'm glad. I liked having 429 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:21.279 Nevada early when we were there. That was one of 430 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:22.680 the last trips we took before COVID. 431 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:25.079 Look, I I was on record saying this last time. 432 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:27.200 But boy am I happy. We'll be spending a lot 433 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:27.440 of time. 434 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.079 It will have no choice, we have to go. Sorry, 435 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:31.880 So what is what is in there? What is the 436 00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.440 theory of the different role in New Mexico versus Nevada plays? 437 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:35.440 New Mexico is a border state. 438 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:37.519 Yeah, and I don't even know if there's a theory 439 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:38.200 of that being different. 440 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.400 What I took it as is North Nevada and South 441 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.160 Carolina we're battling for first, and uh, you know that 442 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.599 South Carolina party chair was like, well, if if Nevada 443 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:49.079 goes first, what does that state of black voters that 444 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:51.519 they don't matter as much? And I think you pointed 445 00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:52.880 stup to me, love it. So does that mean the 446 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.519 reverse is true? 447 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:54.559 Then the Latino voters? 448 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.480 And so now by having two states with significant Latino populations, 449 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.720 and Nevada also has a a significant black population as well, 450 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.039 not as much as South Carolina, but it does, then 451 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.720 you get then you basically have two states in the 452 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:09.640 early window that have pretty heavy Latino populations. 453 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:11.559 I'll make another case for this now that I think 454 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:15.640 about it. South Carolina, Nevada, New Mexico. These are states 455 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.559 that are not that cold in November, December, January. That 456 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:19.759 is a very that is cool. 457 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:21.000 That's what we want for us. 458 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.160 It's just going to be New Hampshire and I guess Michigan. 459 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:24.599 Michigan will be cold too. 460 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:25.599 It'll be very cool. 461 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:29.480 What do you guys make of the like the South 462 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:32.759 Carolina disadvantages progressives a progressive candidate. 463 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:34.200 I think it's probably right. 464 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.759 I mean that the South Carolina Democratic primary electorate, it's older, 465 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:42.119 more moderate than Iowa, New Hampshire, or Nevada. About forty 466 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:47.319 percent of South Carolina Democratic primary voters were college graduates. 467 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.400 About half identified as liberal, which is less than earlier contest. 468 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.559 This is I think twenty twenty exit polls. They're more 469 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:55.279 likely to be working class, more likely to go to 470 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:59.279 church once a week older. Biden won South Carolina twenty 471 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:01.039 twenty because you won with black voters, but he did 472 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.839 especially well with black voters over sixty. He and Bernie actually, 473 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:07.480 I think tied with black voters under thirty. So I 474 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.240 do think it's likely to be demographically set up to 475 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:11.319 be more moderate. 476 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:14.839 As we were saying before, like if you're saying that 477 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:18.240 you think South Carolina is a way to put a 478 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.640 roadblock in front of progressives, you are saying that a 479 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.359 black electorate is a roadblock in front of progressive Now. 480 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:27.759 I think the point that would be made in response is, 481 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:31.119 as Tommy said, a generational thing, not a demographic thing. 482 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:36.359 But of course it's both, and we have seen like 483 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.440 you know, you see this in Michigan, playing out that 484 00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:42.680 one of a duel's challenges is trying to kind of 485 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:45.359 build support in the black community. And I feel like 486 00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:49.839 this is an opportunity for the left if they want 487 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:54.640 to start building a bigger coalition that can win in 488 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.279 contest like this, right, like because South Carolina that is 489 00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:58.559 where Bernie goes down. 490 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:00.240 In twenty twenty. 491 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.519 Like, if that's that is, that is the test, and 492 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:04.279 it may not happen this election. You're right, it may 493 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:07.240 be harder because of this. But also at the same time, 494 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:09.559 even if if South Carolina was third, fourth, or fifth, 495 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.200 this test was always there, the candidate that that wins 496 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:14.680 black voters is going to be the nominated. 497 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.720 Well, this is where I think that the order matters 498 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.440 maybe less or at least can cut both ways. Because 499 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:25.000 let's say South Carolina is does advantage more moderate candidates. Well, 500 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.599 then you know, so a fifth of South Carolina primary 501 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:31.839 voters describe themselves as very liberal, which is relatively low. 502 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.559 And then you go to Nevada and a third of 503 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:38.480 voters there describe themselves as very liberal. So like, if 504 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:41.400 you're a progressive, lefty candidate and you don't do well 505 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.160 in South Carolina, you hang on and you go to Nevada, 506 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.960 you go to New Hampshire or Delaware, you go to 507 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.039 you try you know, like so there's there's basically there's 508 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:55.400 a state on the map in that early window for 509 00:22:55.519 --> 00:23:00.400 any kind of ideal, ideological flavor or you know, different 510 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:03.119 kind of voter that you can get. So I don't 511 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.440 worry as much about that. I wouldn't worry if I 512 00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:07.359 was a progressive candidate or if I was an establishment 513 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:08.839 candidate on like the order that way. 514 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:11.759 One under discussed change though, is Nevada going from a 515 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:14.079 caucas state to a primary state, which I think is 516 00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:18.039 will medically to disadvantage progressives potentially because there's you know, 517 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.000 some progressives tend to organize well in these caucas states, 518 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:25.200 and unions tend to do better than unions tend to 519 00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:27.559 do really well in caucas states, which interesting to see 520 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:28.799 how that kind of cuts I don't know yet. 521 00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:31.960 Oh yeah, the fact that there's no Caucasus means it's disadvantaging. 522 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.319 I mean that that's yeah, Progressives do better in Caucasus 523 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:37.000 for sure, but even without the Caucus, and Nevada will 524 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:39.880 have like a more liberal primary life sure than South Carolina. 525 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:43.799 Dan made an argument in his Saturday message box, the 526 00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:47.039 South Carolina going first massively advantages Kamala Harris. 527 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:48.000 What do you guys think about that? 528 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.200 So I saw that and I thought, huh, that's interesting 529 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:54.880 from Dan. And then I went back and looked at 530 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:59.519 the South Carolina polling from before Kamala ended her campaign. 531 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:03.559 And she drops out in the end of twenty nineteen 532 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:08.160 before any votes are cast, But in the closing weeks 533 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:11.079 of the year, there were polls that had her somewhere 534 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.680 between say, five to twelve percent. I think she sort 535 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.000 of like ticking down a bit as we got closer, 536 00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:17.400 and so. 537 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:18.279 I don't know. 538 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:21.559 I was like, maybe that's true, right, But part of 539 00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:23.359 the reason she ended her campaign when she did is 540 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:25.759 she just wasn't gaining traction, even in a state. 541 00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:27.440 Like South Carolina. Yeah, where do you think some mean? 542 00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:31.440 I think you know. Basically, the argument is that black 543 00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:35.960 voters are half the elector in South Carolina, that Kamala 544 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:38.839 Harris has the most support from black voters by far 545 00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.720 in polls, she has sixty nine percent favorability with black 546 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:48.200 voters plus forty two. You're right that, like her presidential 547 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:50.680 run in twenty twenty, did not end well in South 548 00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:53.319 Carolina or any state. But that was just a bad 549 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:55.400 campaign that didn't end well for her, And I think 550 00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:57.839 four years of being VP probably changed a lot of things. 551 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:00.839 I think certainly it look does it make her the 552 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.519 front runner? Yes, But being the front runner's double edged sword, 553 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.440 because the early states are not necessarily about winning. All 554 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:11.240 the early states about expectations, management and exceeding expectations in 555 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.160 the early States. And when you're the early on front 556 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:17.720 runner and everyone assumes you're gonna romp in South Carolina 557 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:19.799 for the following reasons, it puts a big old bulls 558 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:22.279 eye on your back, and the media looks for better, 559 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:24.119 more interesting stories to tell for them. 560 00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:25.359 That's what That's what I thought. 561 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.720 And it's like, as soon as South Carolina's over, now 562 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:31.599 you've got four other states for that month, including two 563 00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:35.440 very big ones at the end. And does anyone think 564 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.640 that the media, like, no matter how good of a 565 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.400 campaign she's running, is going to be like, yeah, it's 566 00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:41.680 the Kamala Harris front runner story all through February. 567 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:42.720 Like that's just not gonna happen. 568 00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:46.319 So it goes from like, oh wow, South Carolina advantages 569 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:49.240 is Kamala Harris to Kamala Harris is the only candidate 570 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:49.880 that has a state. 571 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:51.960 If she loses, it's over right. 572 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:53.440 That's true, definitely true. 573 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:56.000 Well, the other thing we haven't talked about is if 574 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.119 Wes Moore runs or Rafael Warnock, like she's not the 575 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:02.599 only black candidate that might run for president, and then 576 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:06.759 you could have black candidates splitting votes you could have 577 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:09.680 and then you know, it's interesting, Like the two things 578 00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:11.559 that you need to know before we're starting to think 579 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:12.839 about how the race is going to go and plan 580 00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:15.240 your strategy as a campaign. One is the early state calendar, 581 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:17.480 which is now locked. Two is the composition of the 582 00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.599 field exactly. You need to know who's running, who's gonna 583 00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:22.720 split what vote, how they're going to like that that 584 00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:25.160 part we don't know yet. But like there is a 585 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.000 situation too where if it's just Kamala Harris, if she's 586 00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:30.799 the only black candidate running and she's doing really well 587 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.519 with black voters in South Carolina, then because the state 588 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.480 is more moderate overall, and you have a bunch of 589 00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:40.680 white moderates running aside from Kamala Harris, then they're all 590 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.000 splitting a vote and then maybe the progressive candidate or 591 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:44.039 two does even better. 592 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.839 So just and that's just an example. We have no idea. 593 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.119 It's yeah, yeah, I do think, like, you know, some 594 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:51.440 of the kind of like Pete Budajeedge, who has historically 595 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.440 had a really hard time with black voters, like it's 596 00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:56.599 probably now a disadvantage. Bernie Sanders, were he to run again, 597 00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:59.599 was probably a bit of a disadvantage for the reasons 598 00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:02.039 we just discussed. A lot of the conventional wisdom is 599 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:05.039 also that AOC came out of this new primary process 600 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.680 helped because she does well with latinos and with labor. 601 00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:11.240 We'll see if she runs, we'll see if that's true. 602 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:14.119 But I'm mostly with you guys that like a lot 603 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:17.039 of the early attempts to kind of you know, handicap 604 00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:18.279 this race are just silly. 605 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:19.279 We don't know what it's going to look like. 606 00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:23.200 Ron Brownstein, who digs into these demographics and them better 607 00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:26.079 than most, he said that the only one through line 608 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:29.599 for all of the states is the candidate who's going 609 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.480 to be able to do best with black voters and 610 00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:37.799 white college educated voters as well, is probably going to 611 00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:40.960 do the best because aside from Nevada and New Mexico, 612 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.839 you don't have a lot of states with non college, 613 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:45.359 big non college populations, and he was like, you know, 614 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:47.720 last last candidate who have done that to bring that 615 00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:50.799 coalition together is Barack Obama. Right, it's the white Libs 616 00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:58.480 and the black Democrats. So we'll see. 617 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.440 Pods of America is brought to you by Magic Spoon. 618 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.680 We love Magic Spoon. It says here to mention the macros. 619 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:08.920 But you know what, I don't deal in macros. I 620 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:14.160 deal in delicious, delicious, high protein, low carb cereal. Magic 621 00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:17.039 Spoon treats are crispy airy protein pack snackbars or twelve 622 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:19.119 grams of protein, seven grams of fib or zero grams 623 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.240 of added sugar, two three neck carbs and certified GF. 624 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:24.359 They're perfect for tossing in your bag, keep you in 625 00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:26.519 the car, grabbing between meetings. We're crushing when a sweet 626 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.720 craving hits at night. Flavors include marshmallow, chocolate, peanut butter, 627 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.920 double chocolate, and more. Very nostalgic, very dessert coated, but 628 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:35.119 without loading you up on sugar. I love Magic Spoon. 629 00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:37.400 For a time there was only peanut butter and chocolate, 630 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.640 and I had to do chemistry myself. I took a big, 631 00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:42.039 a little Compound Pharmacy for breakfast, but now you can 632 00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:44.720 get chocolate, peanut butter all there together. Magic Spoon is 633 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:46.240 easy to find. Just look for Magic Spoon at your 634 00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:48.839 local grocery store and they just rolled out treats nationwide 635 00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:50.680 at seven eleven. And if you haven't tried the meat, 636 00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:53.720 checkout Magic Spoons. Do Protein pastries, a high protein, low 637 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:56.640 sugar take on the classic toaster pastries you grew up with. 638 00:28:56.839 --> 00:28:58.839 You get five dollars off of your next order, including 639 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:01.480 the protein pastries. It's great because I'm so sick of 640 00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:03.920 sticking a slice of turkey in my poptarts. 641 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:07.079 It doesn't taste good. 642 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:10.200 So go to magicspooon dot com slash crooked that's magicspoon 643 00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:12.759 dot com slash cricket for five dollars off. 644 00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:16.000 This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all 645 00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:19.000 in one website platform designed to elevate your online presence 646 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.039 and drive your success. Squarespace provides all the tools you 647 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:23.640 need to promote and get paid for your services in 648 00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:27.480 one platform. Whether you offer consultations, events, or other experiences, 649 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.559 Squarespace can help you grow your business. Squarespace offers a 650 00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.839 complete library of professionally designed and award winning website templates 651 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:36.759 with options for every use and category. No matter where 652 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.319 you start, your website is flexible to what you need 653 00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:42.880 with intuitive drag and drop editing, beautiful styling options, unrivaled 654 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.359 visual design effects on brand ai content, and more ways 655 00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:50.519 to list what you offer. No experience required. Every dream 656 00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:52.880 needs a domain. Squarespace Domains makes it easy to find 657 00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:54.559 the best name for your business at one fair, all 658 00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.880 inclusive price, no hidden fees or add ons required. Every 659 00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:01.480 Squarespace domain comes with advanced private seeing security tools included 660 00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:05.680 to ensure your domain remains online and protected. Plus, Squarespace 661 00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:07.759 provides everything you need to bring more of your dream 662 00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:10.160 to life, whether that means building a website or adding 663 00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:13.160 professional email service. Don't wait to claim your name. Invest 664 00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:16.640 in your dream domain today. Head to squarespace dot com 665 00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:18.440 for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, 666 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:21.400 go to squarespace dot com slash crooked to save ten 667 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:24.079 percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. 668 00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:26.680 That's squarespace dot com slash crooked. 669 00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:31.920 Speaking of the DNC, seems like Ken Martin had a 670 00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:35.680 bad Sunday uh The New York Times Notice and the 671 00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:38.359 Bulwark all ran stories about what The Times calls the 672 00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:42.279 troubled broke Democratic Party. The Time story was certainly the 673 00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:44.839 newsiest and most damning for Martin. It includes a story 674 00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:46.759 about him throwing his phone at the desk of a 675 00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:50.799 junior staffer, which resulted in a formal HR complaint, and 676 00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:52.920 another where Martin freaked out on a call about the 677 00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:55.640 party's finances because he thought his staff was planning. 678 00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.440 A coup and they were like, no, we're just talking 679 00:30:57.480 --> 00:30:58.039 about the money. 680 00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:58.400 Wow. 681 00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.240 No coup sounds like just the usual leave it freciating 682 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:01.599 the name. 683 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:06.559 But the real meat of the story is the party's 684 00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:09.640 financial struggles under Martin, which are quite real. We already 685 00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:12.119 knew that the DNC is two million dollars in debt 686 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.079 after taking out a fifteen million dollar loan, and more 687 00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:17.759 than one hundred million dollars behind the RNC and fundraising, 688 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:20.279 but apparently the situation is so bad that the DNC 689 00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:23.480 is asking vendors not to invoice them until after the midterms, 690 00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:26.440 and for the first time, the DNC will not be 691 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:29.079 transferring any money to the House and Senate committees to 692 00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:31.960 help them win the midterms. According to the Times quote, 693 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.279 party officials are now reckoning with the fact that they 694 00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:38.359 must begin to repay one point sixty six million dollars 695 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.440 of the loan's principle per month starting in January. 696 00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:44.799 Otherwise, pretty nice building will be shame. Is something more 697 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:45.319 to happen to it? 698 00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:49.759 What'd you guys make of these stories? Did anything in 699 00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:52.279 them make you more worried than you already were? 700 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:55.839 Can I just read a great entry in one of 701 00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:58.839 my favorite parts of an insider story like this, which 702 00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:02.079 is a leak about leaks quote. It pisses me off 703 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:04.200 when I see leaks out of this building, mister Martin said, 704 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.319 according to four people who had heard the remarks, adding 705 00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:07.279 no more. 706 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:12.000 I don't know that that reporters like this. 707 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:13.640 Is gonna go for so funny. 708 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.240 Then no more. 709 00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:15.240 It's just a brutal thing. 710 00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:16.599 Leaks about leaks. I love it. 711 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:17.200 I love it. 712 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:17.640 It's tough. 713 00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:20.599 So I reached out some of the DNC staff Ken 714 00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.200 Martin's defenders. I can offer that perspective. I don't know 715 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:25.599 if you guys want to start with reflections on the story. 716 00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:27.599 No, no, you can. We'll reflect after that. 717 00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:31.559 Okay, So what they would say is, what's em bursting 718 00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:34.160 a video over here? Let's hear them then thank you 719 00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:34.759 for doing the work. 720 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:38.319 I'm great grateful to it. 721 00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:39.880 Yeah, you make one phone call, you. 722 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:41.039 A Woodward in this building. 723 00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:44.480 So they would point out that through June of twenty 724 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.279 twenty six, the DNC raised more money than the DNC 725 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:50.359 did in the entire twenty seventeen twenty eighteen cycles. I 726 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.440 love that talking a comparable period. Yeah, when Democrats did 727 00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:55.400 not hold the White House. They also argue they had 728 00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:58.880 more cash on hand than the DNC did in twenty nineteen. 729 00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.440 So their argument is the media narrative is that this 730 00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.279 is like some historic disaster, when in fact, like there's 731 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.680 recent precedent that there actually have improved upon. They would 732 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.200 also say, like, let's look at the investments or we're making. 733 00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:13.079 The DNC gave one hundred thousand dollars to the Mississippi 734 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:16.039 Democratic Party right before a special election that broke a 735 00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:20.079 Republican super majority. Obviously good thing. The DNC gave money 736 00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:21.720 to South Carolina and now, for the first time in 737 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.000 fifty years, South Carolina recruited a candidate to run in 738 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:27.160 every state house race, state wide race, and congressional race. 739 00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:32.200 So that there's sort of a talking point where in 740 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:34.519 ken substack about this where he's like, we ninety percent 741 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:36.839 of the races, we've overperformed or won. I think that's 742 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:40.519 taking credit for the political environment and people being mad 743 00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:43.119 at Donald Trump. But you know it's evidence, right, It's 744 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.880 results matter now. I also talked to some people who 745 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:48.400 worked in the DNC in that period of twenty seven 746 00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:50.839 to twenty eighteen period for Tom Perez, and they'll say, 747 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:53.119 the thing you have to remember is that everyone hated 748 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:55.279 the DNC in twenty seventeen because they blamed them for 749 00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:57.880 Hillary losing, and they blamed them for Bernie getting screwed. 750 00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.519 So money wasn't really coming into doors. 751 00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:05.160 Yes, yes, they walked into the building with seventeen million 752 00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:08.559 dollars in debt. The major fundraising team had been laid off, 753 00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:11.719 so they were had a standing start, and at least 754 00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.400 thirty million dollars of Ken's fundraising total was Kamala Harris 755 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:17.559 raising money to retire her own debt. So I think 756 00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:19.519 those people would also conceide, like, yeah, that twenty seventeen 757 00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.760 twenty eighteen period fundraising wasn't good, but comparing to the 758 00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.199 not good period is still bad. 759 00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:29.039 Also, they still in that election did transfer money to 760 00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:30.840 the House and Senate committees, which they're not going to 761 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:31.320 do this year. 762 00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:35.079 Well, it's also, hey, in this game that we're losing, 763 00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:37.880 we actually have more goals than the previous team. So well, 764 00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:39.800 you're not playing against the DNC from twenty eighteen, you're 765 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:41.440 playing against the Republicans in twenty twenty six. 766 00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:43.199 So the last point I think I'm just making response 767 00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:45.360 to the Ken Too, is like, Okay, you're telling us 768 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:47.239 you've raised all this money, but you're still two million 769 00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:50.239 in debt. Like that suggests mismanagement and misspending, you know 770 00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:51.559 what I mean, It's like a double the talking point 771 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:52.320 is a double edge story. 772 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:55.280 Yeah, that's my my feeling about it, which is like 773 00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:57.840 before sort of diving into all these stories like oh 774 00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:02.119 there's a massive fundraising problem at the DNC. We're being 775 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:04.400 out raised by a huge amount, and then you read 776 00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:08.199 the defense, it's like, wow, actually, you know, it's we're 777 00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:10.920 out of power, but they're they raise the fundraising is 778 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.400 actually comparable, if not better. Okay, then where did all 779 00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:17.320 the money go out? And then the test is if 780 00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:20.159 you really are going to say that we've been it's 781 00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.320 not a fundraising issue. We've been using the money to 782 00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:25.079 kind of build infrastructure, well, then it's incumbent upon you 783 00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:28.400 to show how that's going to benefit Democrats in the 784 00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:31.320 mid terms and beyond, and then you think, well, hold on, 785 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:34.760 that was the strategy. Where So, right now Democratic candidates 786 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:39.079 have been out raising. Republican candidates are in the Republican 787 00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:42.960 House Committee and the Republican Senate Committee are out raising, 788 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:45.400 not not to the same degree as the DNC, R 789 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:48.039 and C, but are outraising the candidate committees. And the 790 00:35:48.440 --> 00:35:51.360 RNC has over one hundred million dollars more on hand 791 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:52.360 than the DNC does. 792 00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:53.119 Now. 793 00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:57.639 Before the Supreme Court ruled that the party parties could 794 00:35:57.639 --> 00:35:59.679 spend at the same lower rate as candidates, there's an 795 00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:02.440 argument to say, you know what, the DNC should raise money, 796 00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:06.000 get it out the door for building infrastructure, focus fundraising 797 00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:08.239 for the candidates. Those candidates can then buy ads at 798 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.360 a cheaper rate than the parties. But that advantage is 799 00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:14.519 now gone, that doesn't exist anymore, and so they have 800 00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:18.519 more money in their super PACs, their their candidate their 801 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:21.440 their candidate committees have more money, and the RNC has 802 00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:24.239 more money and all of that is just puts puts 803 00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:26.880 the Republicans at a huge advantage for buying ads. Over 804 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:30.559 the Democrats. And so then you say, well, uh, that 805 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:33.480 is the statuok, regardless of what money went out the door, Like, 806 00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:35.880 that is the situation right now. So what do you 807 00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:37.639 do to get out of the hole. The answer isn't 808 00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:39.119 to point to how much worse it could have been 809 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:41.559 or how much different. It is like, we are behind. 810 00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:42.719 How do you close that gap? 811 00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:45.920 Yeah, and doesn't seem like there's any answers on that 812 00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:49.880 from the from the DNC. And it's not like they 813 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.519 are sort of denying any of the stories. 814 00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:57.800 You didn't throw the phone. It slid next to someone 815 00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.800 else who didn't own the phone. 816 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.800 Rufus Gifford who we all know. Rufus He was on 817 00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:07.480 the Obama campaign. He was the finance director of the 818 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:11.000 DNC Toothful near You. He worked there for eight years. 819 00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:15.840 He wrote the substack today. He loves the place he worked. 820 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.280 He was the finance director on Obama's reelect, on Biden's reelect. 821 00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:22.360 So he's been around for a long time. He didn't 822 00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:24.840 have a dog in the fight on Ken versus Ben 823 00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.039 or anything else. But he said in his subject post 824 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:32.199 the DNC is spiraling towards irrelevance, and that Ken Martin 825 00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:33.960 is a good man with good intentions, but simply not 826 00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:37.079 meeting this critical moment, and his chairmanship is beyond saving. 827 00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:38.880 And wait till that email goes out where he says 828 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:41.920 to everybody coming to that big DNC meeting, one slice 829 00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:44.960 of pizza per person. That's all we can do right now. 830 00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:47.559 No second slices at this meeting. I was just just 831 00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:48.840 we cannot afford it. 832 00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:52.119 I once worked on a campaign where our paychecks were 833 00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:54.920 delayed until the next year to make like the FEC 834 00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:57.000 report look better, so we had more cash on hand. 835 00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:00.840 And by the way, it didn't suggest a healthy campaign, 836 00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:02.920 and the things were going well. But then a reporter 837 00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:05.599 called and asked one of our spokespeople if staff had 838 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.599 been asked to delay their paychecks to make our FEC 839 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:12.320 report look better. And this flag said no, because we'd 840 00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:14.559 just been told that we would not be getting paid 841 00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:15.599 over Christmas. 842 00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:16.280 We were not asked. 843 00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:18.400 So yeah, that was a memory Lane. 844 00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:20.599 I mean, I said the question. I was like, what 845 00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.320 can be done about this? Because we're all in this 846 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.760 situation together, We're all, you know, like we all need 847 00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:27.280 the DNC to be successful, in the Democratic Party to 848 00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:30.360 be successful. You know, there is a scenario. We were 849 00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:33.800 talking to someone where once we have a nominee, the 850 00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.360 nominee of the party installs their person to the DNC 851 00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:39.639 and you know, tries to go around Ken and raises 852 00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:43.360 all the money. But you know, between now and getting 853 00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:47.119 a nominee, we need to figure like the party needs 854 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:49.079 to figure something out on like how to raise the 855 00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:52.000 money that we're gonna need, especially with the Supreme Court decision. 856 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.000 As you said, love it where now the Democratic National Committee, 857 00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:56.639 it's going to be really really important for them to 858 00:38:56.679 --> 00:38:58.920 have a ton of money before there's even a nominee. 859 00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:01.960 This is a you know, like this is the terrible 860 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:05.840 fundraising and the autopsy report and the interview with you, 861 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.239 this is all compounded into a crisis of confidence with 862 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:11.159 DNC leadership and it is just not going to improve. 863 00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:12.920 And it's time to make a change, I think, and 864 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:16.440 I think Chuck Schumer and Hackeing Jeffries need to go 865 00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:18.760 to Ken Martin and say we got to do something 866 00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:20.400 different here, and they need to get someone else in 867 00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:23.360 there that just has confidence of big donors of parties, 868 00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:26.679 et cetera. And yeah, like we it just can't overstate 869 00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:30.960 how important this Supreme Court ruling is in terms of 870 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:34.559 erasing the Democratic Party advantage that we used to have 871 00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.880 because small dollars would flow to our candidates who would 872 00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:41.199 get preferential rates on ad bys, and then you'd have 873 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:44.519 Republican super PACs having to spend ten times the same 874 00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:48.559 amount for the same ad Now that advantage is gone, yep, 875 00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:51.960 and we are. That just makes a hole even deeper. 876 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:53.800 And so like like if I'm Chuck Schumer, like you're 877 00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:55.679 trying to win a set of majority, if you're hockeing Jeffries, 878 00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.599 you're trying to become speaker, this is existential for. 879 00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:01.039 Them, I mean beyond those because for them, it's like, 880 00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:03.519 you know, the midterms are in a couple of months, 881 00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:08.119 that ship is sailed. Every Democrat running for president, every 882 00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:10.760 one of these campaigns is in their interest to like 883 00:40:11.719 --> 00:40:13.760 BacT together on this, to like all go to these. 884 00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:15.400 I don't think it should have saled for the midterms. 885 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:17.360 I think you could get a new person in tomorrow 886 00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:19.559 who could bring like a bunch of big donors to 887 00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:21.840 send a message and raise one hundred million dollars in 888 00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:22.559 like a couple of weeks. 889 00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:24.400 I really like think although I think on that though 890 00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:26.880 the only reason I say that is because if yes, 891 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:28.480 but then why not just send the money right to 892 00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:29.639 the d SEC and the d triples c. 893 00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:31.760 There's no need to give the DNC money before the midterms. 894 00:40:31.800 --> 00:40:34.840 Sure is again like I'm taking Ken's work like I 895 00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:36.519 read your long stop stack. But if you look at 896 00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:39.880 like the like what his claim is, then there's actually 897 00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:40.159 is a. 898 00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:41.440 Fair amount of money coming in. 899 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:43.960 And so what I don't understand is like there's this 900 00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.760 sort of like hand ringing, Oh, there's nothing we can 901 00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:50.079 do before November if you're if there's this little amount 902 00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:51.960 of money on hand, but like what something like eight 903 00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:54.440 point six million is coming in every month at the lead, 904 00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:57.440 Like why can't there be a change in priorities where 905 00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:01.119 you kind of do say, from this point forward, we 906 00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:04.039 are going to be devoting these resources towards winning in November, 907 00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:06.360 and this is the amount that's going to be directed 908 00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:08.280 towards this as opposed to whatever kind of the longer 909 00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:10.159 term kind of money that's going out the door per month. 910 00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:12.079 Is Like, that's what I don't That's what I came 911 00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:13.280 away I was confused by. 912 00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:16.800 There's just there's a vicious cycle. And you know, Wickler was. 913 00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:21.679 As usual very generous and kind, didn't want to shut 914 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:25.239 over Ken Martin. But you know, when there are stories 915 00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:27.960 like these, it just deepens the problem because now who's 916 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:29.840 going to want to give money to the d n 917 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.920 C after reading stories like this? Right, like, and so 918 00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:36.559 it's a it's a vicious cycle. I did think one 919 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.039 more funny moment from the New York Times story is 920 00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:41.239 he's like he's he's got this staff meeting and he's 921 00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:43.880 trying to like pluck everyone up, and he says, my 922 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:46.920 success is your success. So the weaker I am, the 923 00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:50.559 weaker all of you are, which is true. 924 00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:52.440 It's just a weird thing to say to your stats. 925 00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:54.880 Yeah, this seems so inspiring. I don't know, that's the 926 00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:56.039 best pep talk I've ever heard. 927 00:41:56.199 --> 00:41:59.440 Yeah, I think I think it's a get through. Like 928 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:02.480 the other thing too, is any like if you're a 929 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:04.599 presidential Canada starting next year, and they're like, well, what 930 00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:06.519 do you think of Ken Martin, you would just like, 931 00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:09.280 you know, the president will choose a new DNC chair, 932 00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:10.920 right like, we will have a better you know, they're 933 00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:12.199 all going to say they're going to choose a new 934 00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:14.320 dn C chair. So it's just like, let's move that 935 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:16.039 up a little let's get this, let's get through the 936 00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:18.519 minterm swamp this guy out, you know, yeah, yeah. 937 00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.800 It's just like when when we swapped Kamala for Biden. 938 00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:23.920 I think the DNC raised like a billion dollars in 939 00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:25.639 one hundred days. You know, there's a lot they could 940 00:42:25.639 --> 00:42:27.400 do it, Strift, we were to make a change, I think, 941 00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:30.639 you know what. In Ken's substack, he says, we must 942 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:33.400 communicate and organize year round. While one of the things 943 00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:35.199 that we learned in this New York Times story is 944 00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:37.360 that after the Pat American interview, Ken has only done 945 00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:38.880 like one local TV hit. 946 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:41.960 So I'm not saying people in Erie got. 947 00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:43.440 Now. 948 00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:46.519 It is primarily a fundraising job, right, We don't expect 949 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:48.480 him out doing to be out doing message events. But 950 00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:51.400 Rufus Skifford then his substack made the point that when 951 00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.519 the DNC chair does a lot of TV that gets shared, 952 00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:57.320 that gets seen by donors, it makes them want to 953 00:42:57.559 --> 00:42:59.599 donate and be involved and kind of like keeps you 954 00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:01.679 in the mix. And then also you have like the 955 00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:03.599 DNC has got a lot of great staff and they 956 00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:06.559 must feel beyond demoralized and they're supposed to be doing 957 00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.960 things like year around. You know Research and Comms and 958 00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:13.840 Digital on Republicans. They're doing mobilization. They have this big 959 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:17.880 like Creator program, you know, the RBC. The Rules Committee 960 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:21.079 just diuch a really good job on the calendar, and. 961 00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:24.039 You need more hype reels for Ken and it's just 962 00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:24.800 like Creators. 963 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:27.159 I just feel bad for this team of people, not 964 00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:29.559 just because the phones are flying, but because, like you 965 00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:33.800 feel like your work is getting denigrated in the news 966 00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:35.639 all the time, and you don't have the leadership you 967 00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:38.039 need and you know it's important, and like it just 968 00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:39.840 must be frustrating not to be able to fix it. 969 00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:42.199 Just because the phones are flying. 970 00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:53.199 Podda of America's brought you by Higher. We're only beginning 971 00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:56.119 to understand the impact of ultra process foods on our health, 972 00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:58.960 and especially on the health of our kids. That's exactly 973 00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:01.440 why High exists to get parents a real solution in 974 00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:04.119 a market flooded with kids vitamins that prioritize candy like 975 00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:07.000 appeal over actual nutrition. Some children's vitamins on the market 976 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:08.960 today could tain up to seven grams of sugar preserving 977 00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:11.719 and are stuffed with artificial additives and petroleum based dies. 978 00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:14.880 Hya took the opposite approach, zero sugar, zero gummy additives, 979 00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:18.320 just clean nutrition. Hya created a powerful chewable vitamin that 980 00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:20.440 packs a blend of twelve organic fruits and vegetables, plus 981 00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:23.559 fifteen essential vitamins and minerals into every dose, designed for 982 00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:25.480 kids two and up. Highest ship straight to your door. 983 00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:27.800 You get this awesome reusable bottle with your first order 984 00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:29.440 and they send refills every month. 985 00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:33.119 As you know, Charlie Favreau is the huge fan of 986 00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:35.760 high vitamins, and he was telling me that he just 987 00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:38.480 solved the halting problem. Oh, the halting problem is famous 988 00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:39.159 by Alan Turing. 989 00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:42.320 I believe, yeah. I think he's related to girdles work. 990 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:44.440 Oh I think. I don't know. 991 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:47.039 I think the girdles in completeness, there is it in there. 992 00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:48.840 He solved those two, so said, he figured it out. 993 00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:51.199 Wow, he fired the arrow through all those axes. 994 00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:52.039 That's so amazing. 995 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.559 That's how he could reveal to Penelope that he was 996 00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:55.199 down to clown. 997 00:44:55.239 --> 00:44:58.119 I guess all because he took High vitamins, which tastes delicious. 998 00:44:58.159 --> 00:44:59.800 By the way, They're great and near something every parent 999 00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:01.960 need to hear. If getting your kids seat their vegetables 1000 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:05.000 feels impossible. High as new kids daily Greens plus Superfoods 1001 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.320 is a total game changer. It's a Greens pownders designed 1002 00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:09.960 specifically for kids that are packed with fifty five plus 1003 00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:12.320 whole food source ingredients. Just mix one scoop with milk 1004 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:15.079 or a milk alternative and watch them actually enjoy something 1005 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.280 that's secretly fueling their growing bodies. We worked out a 1006 00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:20.119 special deal with HIA for their best selling children's vitamins. 1007 00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:22.480 Received fifty percent off your first order. To claim this deal, 1008 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:24.480 you must go to Higher Help dot com slash crooked. 1009 00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:27.199 This deal is not available on their regular website. High 1010 00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:31.320 Health HI y A H E A L T h 1011 00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:33.840 dot com slash crookeet and get your kids the full 1012 00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:36.159 body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. 1013 00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:39.000 Podza of America is brought to you by in Neutrifol. 1014 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:42.760 Summer calendars are filling up fast weddings, concerts, sports events, 1015 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:46.199 backyard barbecues. It feels like every weekend has something going on, 1016 00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:49.039 and when you're out seeing people and making memories, confidence 1017 00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:51.119 in your appearance is nice to have in your back pocket. 1018 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:53.840 Adding neutrifol to your daily routine is a step in 1019 00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:57.760 the right direction. Neutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended 1020 00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:00.639 hair growth supplement brand, and it's the numbnumber one hair 1021 00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:04.920 growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. Neutrifols hair grow 1022 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:08.880 supplements are peer reviewed, NSF certified for sport and clinically tested. 1023 00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:11.840 It's not a one size fits all approach. Neutrifoil offers 1024 00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.800 multiple formulas for men and women tailored to different life 1025 00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:19.039 stages like postpartum or menopause, plus your individual lifestyle factors 1026 00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:20.960 such as a plant based diet, so you can get 1027 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.519 support that's actually right for you. 1028 00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:24.000 I'm on it, Tommy, It's great. 1029 00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:24.519 Is it good? 1030 00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:27.280 Yeah, I'm like a lion. Great, I'm like a lion. 1031 00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:29.360 Now it's happened to me. Hair looks red light there. 1032 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:31.719 But I do neutrafil. I do everything else. Oh yeah, 1033 00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:33.119 and it's working the nutrifil. 1034 00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:34.199 Here's how you get the neutrafil. 1035 00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:37.639 You order online, No prescription is needed, with automated deliveries 1036 00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:39.400 and free shipping to keep you on track. Plus, with 1037 00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:42.159 a Neutriphile subscription, you can save up to twenty percent 1038 00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:44.880 and get added perks like free headspace membership. If you've 1039 00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:46.760 been looking for an excuse to take the plunge on 1040 00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:50.039 meditation s nice bonus. Let your hair become one less 1041 00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:52.639 thing taken up space in your head and see thicker, stronger, 1042 00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:55.159 faster growing hair with less shedding on your head in 1043 00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:57.400 just three to six months with neutrifol taking. 1044 00:46:57.199 --> 00:46:58.519 My hair taking up of space in the drain. 1045 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:01.760 You know what I'm saying. For a limited time, Neutrifol 1046 00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:04.199 is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month 1047 00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:07.559 subscription free shipping. When you visit neutrofold dot com enter 1048 00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:12.000 the promo code crooked. That's neutrofold dot com spelled nut 1049 00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:15.960 r afol dot com promo code crooked. 1050 00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:21.760 So Michigan's in the early state lineup because it remains 1051 00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:24.119 one of the most critical swing states, and this false 1052 00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:25.679 Senate race there is going to be one of the 1053 00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:29.840 most hotly contested. The primary already is hotly contested. Trump 1054 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:31.840 with there on Monday to tour a GM facility and 1055 00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:34.840 appear alongside Mike Rodgers, the Republican nominee for Senate, who 1056 00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:38.400 will face off against either Abdul elsa Ed or Hailey Stevens, 1057 00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:41.400 though neither were mentioned during Trump's speech. He did, however, 1058 00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:44.480 go hard at the DSA wing of the party. 1059 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:47.880 If they're siding with the radical left communists taking over 1060 00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:51.800 the party. They want, in other words, the normal socialists 1061 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:56.119 who can destroy a country too, they're not going fast up. 1062 00:47:56.239 --> 00:47:59.320 Communism is the greatest threat to our country and history, 1063 00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:04.559 including even World War one, World War two, Pearl Harbor 1064 00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:07.639 or nine to eleven. I mean, this is a serious. 1065 00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:09.960 Threat in that order, World War one, World War two, 1066 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.880 Pearl Harbor, nine to eleven. It was like the normal socialist. 1067 00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:15.800 Then he caught in said he's like the normal socialists 1068 00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:17.920 who could also destroy the country normally. 1069 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.960 You gotta not forget that that's important to hit What 1070 00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:21.719 was that Cold War fever dream? 1071 00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:22.400 Nonsense? 1072 00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:23.119 Very weird. 1073 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:25.920 I was kind of surprised that Trump held back from 1074 00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.519 mentioning the Senate race. What do you guys think that's about. 1075 00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:30.559 I think he's suddenly a stickler for the Hatch Act. 1076 00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:31.519 It was an official event. 1077 00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:33.639 Yeah, I don't. I don't know. 1078 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:36.960 Neither did Mike Rogers, Like I thought they would be. 1079 00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:38.320 I thought he would hit a duel. 1080 00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:40.840 I thought it was all well, yeah, I mean, Abduall 1081 00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:42.920 wants a fight with Trump right now, right, Presumably Democrats 1082 00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:44.320 would love to watch Abduell be in a fight with 1083 00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:47.159 Trump right now. So maybe the idea would be if 1084 00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:48.840 you if you pick this fight, you're going to take 1085 00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:52.599 attention into the race. And but they kind of want 1086 00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:53.599 Abdul to come out of the thing. 1087 00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:54.079 So I don't know. 1088 00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:56.360 Well that's the thing, right, Like what you'll hear from 1089 00:48:56.360 --> 00:48:58.800 Haley Stephens supporter is that the Republicans want to face 1090 00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:01.159 the duel because they think he's weak. If that were so, 1091 00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:03.679 you would think that they would elevate him in this 1092 00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:06.440 moment right before the primary. It's weird that they didn't. 1093 00:49:06.719 --> 00:49:08.519 I don't know why. I mean, it could just be 1094 00:49:08.519 --> 00:49:10.760 because Trump is dumb and forgot his name and like 1095 00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:12.760 you know, was supposed to do it as a communist rep. 1096 00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:15.119 And there is some evidence too that that they do 1097 00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:17.679 want that, because Mike Rodgers was like there was a 1098 00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:19.960 recording of Mike Rodgers on a call with Dinners saying like, 1099 00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:21.880 I think if it's a duel, were in good shape. 1100 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:24.159 And so you know there is evidence for that. But 1101 00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:27.760 they it remarkably disciplined from from Donald Trump there, or 1102 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:28.599 maybe it wasn't disciplined. 1103 00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:29.199 Maybe you just forgot. 1104 00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:31.480 Maybe it doesn't care, right, or is there any Is 1105 00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:33.880 there any argument that Trump and Rogers think if they 1106 00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:36.880 publicly pick a fight with a duel it helps Hailey Stevens. 1107 00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:38.639 Is there any can you make that argument? 1108 00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:40.880 Like that's why I mean, Rogers is behind the scenes 1109 00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:42.360 and the kind of kind of to try to be 1110 00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:45.079 like I'm excited about a duel, which is the perfect 1111 00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:46.239 thing to help Haley Stephens. 1112 00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:49.000 It's not a public fight. Uh yeah, I don't know. 1113 00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:49.519 I don't know. 1114 00:49:49.719 --> 00:49:53.000 They also might be thinking that if Hailey Stevens wins, 1115 00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:54.719 you know, they don't want to. They want to they 1116 00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:56.199 want to label them both as communists. 1117 00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:57.119 Right, they don't want to do it. 1118 00:49:57.400 --> 00:49:59.760 Brian Kemp treatment, Yeah, right, Hayley Stevens wins, They're not 1119 00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.480 going to like, oh, we really wanted to, you know, 1120 00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:04.679 like they're gonna act like she's as left wing as possible. 1121 00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:07.880 Right, That's what they do. Meanwhile, Abduel, who. 1122 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:09.480 As you know, we're all supporting in the race, was 1123 00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:12.239 quoted in Playbook on Monday morning telling donors on a 1124 00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:14.360 private call, a lot of these private calls, these zooms, 1125 00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:15.639 you got to you gotta get these zooms. 1126 00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:17.559 They're not that private, no kidding. 1127 00:50:18.519 --> 00:50:20.079 So he was telling donors at a private call that 1128 00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:22.199 all the money and political power being used against him 1129 00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:25.440 makes him look like David against Goliath, presumably meeting both 1130 00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:28.679 Haley Stevens and Apek, and how if he wins, he'll 1131 00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:31.360 have a massive platform and will start primary e Senate moderates, 1132 00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:34.480 including John Fetterman. What'd you guys think of his assessment 1133 00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:34.840 of things? 1134 00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:36.880 I mean, like, I say, this would love for abduel, 1135 00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:38.760 but I thought it was not good. You know, Like 1136 00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:41.199 my first argument would be, you gotta win the general 1137 00:50:41.239 --> 00:50:43.280 election first and then talk about this stuff like you're 1138 00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:45.440 spiking the football in the thirty yard line. Let's win 1139 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:47.599 the primary. Let's win the general, then you can maybe 1140 00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:48.639 talk about twenty twenty eight. 1141 00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:49.119 If you want. 1142 00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:51.800 Also, I'm sure what happened was he was trying to 1143 00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:55.159 pump up donors and supporters. But you have to know 1144 00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:57.119 this stuff is going to leak. It always leaks, and 1145 00:50:57.159 --> 00:50:59.480 the ogre comment is getting taken out of context like 1146 00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:00.519 people are so justin Bie. 1147 00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:02.480 He said, oh sorry, I didn't mention that he said 1148 00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:04.159 this will help me put an ogre. 1149 00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:06.920 On a pike, right, which is about John Fetterman. People 1150 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:09.360 are suggesting he was comparing Hailey Stevens to an ogre, 1151 00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:10.960 it does not sound like he was doing that in 1152 00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:14.360 any way. But also, don't call John Fetterman an ogre. 1153 00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:16.039 You know, it's not helpful. I think it kind of 1154 00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:19.239 plays into this belief among a lot of Democrats that 1155 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:21.440 the left wing of the party is far more focused 1156 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:25.320 on going after moderate Democrats than Republicans. Let's I too 1157 00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:27.880 find John Fetterman very frustrating on a lot of issues, 1158 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:30.960 but he's an elected Democrat senator in a swing state. 1159 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:33.800 Let's beat the Republicans first and talk about that. And 1160 00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:36.880 I think my other just like big picture comment for 1161 00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:40.119 a duel is take every sentence where you say I 1162 00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:42.599 and replace it with we. This campaign is not about 1163 00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:44.400 you and what you're going to do in twenty eight 1164 00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:47.719 or whatever. It's about the movement. It's about what we 1165 00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:50.320 are going to do to make people's lives better, the 1166 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:52.559 issues we're going to elevate, like the way you're going 1167 00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:56.559 to fight for Michigan. I just think it was it 1168 00:51:56.599 --> 00:51:57.079 was not good. 1169 00:51:57.199 --> 00:51:59.199 Yeah, this is the second interview, or this is the 1170 00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:01.239 second sort of Uh, the first was an interview, this 1171 00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:04.880 was least recording. But the second time we've gotten sort of, uh, 1172 00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:07.079 this sort of tone for me that Semaphore interview, I 1173 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:09.199 think was that at a similar level of like, I 1174 00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:13.360 don't know, it's like hostility and kind of uh like 1175 00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:18.159 grandiosity to it. But also it's punditry. And as a rule, 1176 00:52:18.280 --> 00:52:20.360 if you're a candidate and you're doing punditry, that is 1177 00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:22.719 a mistake. That is, if you think of the growth 1178 00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:25.119 always with the donors, but the donors, everyone's a. 1179 00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:26.920 Tray with the donors. Is the worst set is that 1180 00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:28.880 it's just that's where it happens all the time. 1181 00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.440 That's where Mitt Romney says fifty two percent. 1182 00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:34.119 Barack Obama says bitter guns and religion. 1183 00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:36.920 Like that, Like Hillary, I think Deplorables was the classic 1184 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:37.920 was that was a fundraiser? 1185 00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:39.400 Yeah, yeah, fundraisor. 1186 00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:42.599 So so it's a common trap that you're sort of 1187 00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:46.199 like analyzing the electorate and if you're doing that as 1188 00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:47.920 a candidate, by the way, which is something he understands 1189 00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:50.280 in his interviews where he's actually very like he did 1190 00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:53.880 an interview with uh Dasha Burns and even she was like, 1191 00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:56.679 my god, you're on message throughout this entire thing, but 1192 00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:58.800 kind of lets loose one. I think he thinks he's 1193 00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:01.599 in prior it. The other part of it, too, though, 1194 00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:04.159 is like it's got to be frustrating because you're campaigning 1195 00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:07.039 against Hailey Stevens, who's getting all this attention for having 1196 00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:10.039 this awe shocks pure Michigan thing and then Apax dropping 1197 00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:11.760 like thirty million dollars on their head. They're like, put 1198 00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:13.880 a sort of salad in in his fucking hands. 1199 00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:18.960 Uh, we'll see, we'll see what the odds are. 1200 00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:23.440 Yeah. I think for progressive candidates that tend to do 1201 00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:29.039 well have a sunnier disposition. There is they do express anger, 1202 00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:32.760 of course, but there's a sunnier disposition. And what Abdul 1203 00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:36.800 has nailed is the liberal patriotism. And we saw that 1204 00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:40.159 with the when the protester Jake Lang, like you know, 1205 00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:42.199 interrupted one of his events and he talked in they 1206 00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:44.880 basically they shotted him out with the USA chan and 1207 00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:47.320 Dull give this speech. So he's got he's got that 1208 00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:50.920 part down. But you can't be also, you have to look, 1209 00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:53.519 you have to be happy all the time and not 1210 00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:56.400 be uh and uh and not be hostile to your opponents. 1211 00:53:56.519 --> 00:53:57.440 Yeah, that's that's the key. 1212 00:53:57.599 --> 00:53:59.159 I was like, there's something deeper that this is not 1213 00:53:59.199 --> 00:53:59.880 about Abdul. 1214 00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:00.760 There is a like. 1215 00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:05.599 A bad faith critique from the left that takes I 1216 00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:08.760 think what is largely a true argument about the influence 1217 00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:10.159 of money and politics. And by the way, it's just 1218 00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:12.880 for saying, like what's happening in Michigan is fucking crazy. 1219 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:16.079 This is the biggest outside spend by APAC. Ever, it's 1220 00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:19.000 thirty maybe on any Senate race ever as in a primary, 1221 00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:21.639 all being dumped on his head like that is what 1222 00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:24.599 is on television and the ad like that. There's two 1223 00:54:24.679 --> 00:54:27.039 ads that are going around that are like that are 1224 00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:30.119 just like really manipulative to like say that like a 1225 00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:32.559 duel is bad for women, right, taking some quotes out 1226 00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:35.239 of context. But at the same time, like when Whitmer 1227 00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:38.960 endorses Hailey Stevens, it's because she's bought and sold, right, 1228 00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:41.639 And like I don't believe Gretchen Whitmer is bought and sold, 1229 00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:44.039 and I don't think most Democrats in Michigan believe Kretcha 1230 00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:45.280 Whitmer is like bought and sold. 1231 00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:49.079 She backed to Hailey Stevens because she probably thinks Hailey 1232 00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:50.320 Stevens is a better chance of winning. 1233 00:54:50.840 --> 00:54:53.920 That's it, and it doesn't help you probably to attack 1234 00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:56.800 in pretty personal terms, a very popular democrat in the 1235 00:54:56.800 --> 00:54:59.199 state you are trying to represent. And my guess, you 1236 00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:01.639 know there's some old bad blood there from twenty eighteen 1237 00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:02.639 when they ran against each other. 1238 00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:04.199 But so when and when I'm doing. 1239 00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:05.760 Just got to eat shit. That's the whole that's that's 1240 00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:06.599 running for politics. 1241 00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:08.960 And so like when Abdula is asked in that interview 1242 00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:11.239 about like whether he identifies as a socialist, he says, 1243 00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:13.599 I don't identity like what, and he actually won't answer 1244 00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:15.840 where he disagrees with Bernie and AOC and he says, like, 1245 00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:18.519 I just don't identify as a socialist. I like appreciate 1246 00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:20.920 some version of I appreciate capitalism. I'm sorry, I'm just 1247 00:55:20.920 --> 00:55:23.079 going to be a nuanced guy. I'm a nuanced guy, right, 1248 00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:26.039 But that nuance doesn't like especially I get why in 1249 00:55:26.039 --> 00:55:28.440 the heat of a primary. But like you know, when 1250 00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:31.159 like you say, the root of our housing problem is 1251 00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:33.239 is corporate money, When the root of this problem is 1252 00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:36.440 corporate money, It's just like I get why it works 1253 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:38.320 on the stump, I get why it's a valuable way 1254 00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:41.000 of simplifying what's happening, but I think it starts to 1255 00:55:41.079 --> 00:55:45.960 feel I don't know, like uh like like turning this 1256 00:55:46.039 --> 00:55:48.760 race into like a black and white Manichean struggle, which 1257 00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:50.559 is what comes off in these private conversations. 1258 00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:51.400 Yeah. So. 1259 00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:53.599 Trump also used the Michigan appearance to provide an update 1260 00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:56.039 on his uh on again, off again war and Iron, 1261 00:55:56.719 --> 00:55:59.000 which suddenly appears to be off again after Trump threatened 1262 00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:01.880 a massive attack last week. The US officials told reporters 1263 00:56:01.880 --> 00:56:04.519 that the shrinking supply of air defense systems was at 1264 00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.159 least partly responsible for the pause, which Trump, of course 1265 00:56:07.159 --> 00:56:11.400 blamed on Biden. We also find out this weekend that 1266 00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:13.719 the four service members who recently died in the Around 1267 00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:16.519 War are no longer listed in the Pentagon's casualty count 1268 00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:19.480 for the Around War. Instead, the Pentagon moved the tally 1269 00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:23.280 of their deaths to a new section generically called Overseas 1270 00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:27.280 Operations Casualties. They also updated the number of injuries to 1271 00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:30.079 over six hundred. Here's what Trump had to say about 1272 00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:32.199 the war on the flight to Michigan and at his 1273 00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:32.760 event there. 1274 00:56:33.320 --> 00:56:36.000 Well. Iron took a meeting over the last fourteen days 1275 00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:42.480 and the ass very nicely please stop. Let's me and 1276 00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:43.599 that's where we are right now. 1277 00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:44.719 To see what happens to me. 1278 00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:46.960 When the fuel comes down, which it did for a 1279 00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:49.639 little while. Then they didn't behave and I had to 1280 00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:51.800 go back, and now they're behaving again. 1281 00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:53.960 You know, it's like playing a banjo. 1282 00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:58.400 Is it like playing a banjo? It's like, in what 1283 00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:00.719 way is the around war like playing a banjo? 1284 00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:02.159 I think I know what that is. 1285 00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:02.719 Tell me. 1286 00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:05.079 I think that what he is thinking of is the 1287 00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:07.840 song that goes back and forth from the film Deliverance, 1288 00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:10.239 but a bum bum bum bum bum bum bumb but 1289 00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:12.360 a bum bum bum bum bum bum bum. 1290 00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:13.360 In the film Deliverance. 1291 00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:15.360 I know, I know that that is what I'm still 1292 00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:17.239 struggling with, so back and forth, because it back. 1293 00:57:17.079 --> 00:57:18.719 And forth, it's going to squeal like a pig in 1294 00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:22.559 this one, I think. I think, I think, I think 1295 00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:24.800 it's us fuck sucks. 1296 00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:28.159 I don't know, Tommy, What's what do you think? What's 1297 00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:30.920 what's going on right now? I mean, we're losing the war. 1298 00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:34.719 The Straight of Horror moves was once uncontested, and now 1299 00:57:34.760 --> 00:57:39.239 it's contested. And I think in the long run. Iran geographic, 1300 00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:41.519 you guys noticed on the map that's where it is. 1301 00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:42.920 It's in the Straight of Horror. Moose so I feel 1302 00:57:42.920 --> 00:57:44.760 like they have the upper hand there. The New York 1303 00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:48.559 Times reported that American intelligence agencies believe that Iran's new 1304 00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:52.679 Supreme leader, Mushta Bahamane, is far more interested than his 1305 00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:55.639 father in acquiring a nuclear weapon. 1306 00:57:56.039 --> 00:57:56.679 So that's good. 1307 00:57:56.840 --> 00:57:58.119 That's not what JD. Van said. 1308 00:57:58.119 --> 00:57:59.679 I thought that they were becoming friends. 1309 00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:03.079 Yeah, the father had sworn off nukes. There was a 1310 00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:06.360 fatwa against them. Obviously the people questioned that, but many 1311 00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:09.199 anealists thought it was a genuine sentiment. And now there's 1312 00:58:09.320 --> 00:58:11.400 quite an argument for getting a nuclear weapon. I think 1313 00:58:11.400 --> 00:58:13.400 the long term impact of the war as is is 1314 00:58:13.480 --> 00:58:17.360 like just it's going to be sporadic economic disruption for 1315 00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:20.519 a very long time potentially, and that increases the likelihood 1316 00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:23.440 of US service members getting killed or wounded. The same 1317 00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:26.840 goes for civilians and Iran, by the way, and anyone 1318 00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:29.039 living in the Gulf, you know, in a base where 1319 00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:31.000 the Iranians are firing at, I mean, people are getting 1320 00:58:31.039 --> 00:58:31.719 killed all the time. 1321 00:58:32.480 --> 00:58:33.079 It is led. 1322 00:58:33.800 --> 00:58:36.159 There's just growing instability. I mean you're now noticing, like 1323 00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:38.119 the hu Thise rebels are getting involved in the war 1324 00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:40.280 where before they had not. There's these reports that the 1325 00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:44.360 Saudis or the Amorades are directly engaging with Iran and 1326 00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:48.039 firing missiles or you know, bombs into their territory. So 1327 00:58:48.039 --> 00:58:52.559 it's just the war's metastasizing and growing. It's wildly expensive. 1328 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:55.800 You know, we have Heseth and others going to Congress 1329 00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:58.320 and they want a one point five trillion dollars Pentagon 1330 00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:02.079 budget next year. I mean, that's insane. And the munitions 1331 00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:05.039 issue is a really big, long term problem that you 1332 00:59:05.079 --> 00:59:08.960 can't fix. There's all these interceptor missiles, there's the FAD system, 1333 00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:11.760 there's the Patriot stockpile that's down by half. There's all 1334 00:59:11.800 --> 00:59:14.000 these air to air missiles that are running low. There's 1335 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:16.440 the Tea Lamb or Tomahawks that would be like there's 1336 00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:18.599 all these war games of US war with China where 1337 00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:20.440 you run out of Tomawk missiles in like a week 1338 00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:24.000 with the full stockpile, and now we're way down on those. 1339 00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:26.440 And in many cases these cost millions and millions of 1340 00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:28.280 dollars each and they can take as long as twenty 1341 00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:30.719 thirty to replenish them. So it just feels like everything 1342 00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:34.760 he's done has sort of made our posture weaker, both 1343 00:59:34.840 --> 00:59:38.239 in the Gulf and Visa v China, which Trump ran 1344 00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:41.639 on telling us was the big geostrategic problem going forward. 1345 00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:45.719 And now one of the political problems of any war, 1346 00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:49.599 which is US service members dying and being injured. Now 1347 00:59:49.599 --> 00:59:52.800 they're handling that by just deciding to do some creative 1348 00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:55.000 accounting where they hide the death from US for as 1349 00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:56.679 long as they can, or the injuries or then now 1350 00:59:56.719 --> 01:00:01.360 they're listing them. Listing them is overseas operations casualties is despicable. 1351 01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:05.199 Yeah, it really is like the options of well, he 1352 01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:09.000 can escalate, right, it's actually it sort of mirrors what 1353 01:00:09.079 --> 01:00:13.559 happens in our domestic politics where Trump's has Trump has 1354 01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:17.920 to like threaten greater and greater chaos for the markets 1355 01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:21.199 to take him seriously. Uh, And so the markets have 1356 01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:23.800 to respond more forcefully in order to get him to 1357 01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:26.840 back off whatever the latest threat is, be a tariffs 1358 01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:30.199 or some other economic policy that would be destructive going 1359 01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:30.840 after the FED. 1360 01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:31.880 Uh. 1361 01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:34.480 And so now he has to threaten this new every 1362 01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:36.079 single You know, this is going to be an escalation 1363 01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:37.880 on like anything we've ever seen. It's going to make 1364 01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:40.280 the early stage of the war look like a fireworks show. 1365 01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:40.960 Uh. 1366 01:00:41.239 --> 01:00:43.599 Because he has to, because the only he has to 1367 01:00:43.719 --> 01:00:47.639 ratchet up the threat because uh, that's I guess all 1368 01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:49.920 he has in terms of trying to get some control 1369 01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:53.079 over over Iran and get them to to sort of 1370 01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:56.280 relent on the Strait of Hormuz. So that's one dangerous path. 1371 01:00:56.920 --> 01:01:01.199 The other is some kind of increasing sanctions, economic crackdown, right, 1372 01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:04.519 like to sort of try to squeeze around that way. 1373 01:01:04.599 --> 01:01:08.719 And then finally it's like just saying we did it. 1374 01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:11.320 But even that option, which is I think something we're like, 1375 01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:13.280 oh well he should just declare victory and walk away, 1376 01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:17.320 that's not really available anymore because that Iran will continue 1377 01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:18.280 to control the strait. 1378 01:01:18.280 --> 01:01:18.840 O her moves. 1379 01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:21.760 The fake outcome where he says we got a better 1380 01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:25.519 deal than Obama had, even if it's worse, is not 1381 01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:30.239 available anymore because we've been so thoroughly sort of bodied 1382 01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:32.280 by their ability to control the straight. 1383 01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:35.639 I think this the way they changed the reporting of 1384 01:01:35.679 --> 01:01:39.239 casualties is all about trying to get around the War 1385 01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:42.280 Powers Act by saying the old war ended and this 1386 01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:46.199 is a new war, I think. But it also sounds 1387 01:01:46.239 --> 01:01:50.280 like they weren't really updating casualties in in a timely manner. 1388 01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:52.039 And then sort of the standard way like there were 1389 01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:54.280 reporters kind of watching the website where this is reported 1390 01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:56.519 out and seeing it kind of bump around last week, 1391 01:01:56.559 --> 01:01:58.000 go up and down, and they're like, what is happening? 1392 01:01:58.039 --> 01:01:59.760 Even now the numbers aren't all in agreement, like it 1393 01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:02.400 we don't have it, We don't have like a straightforward 1394 01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:03.440 answer the total. 1395 01:02:03.199 --> 01:02:05.480 Of the two conflicts, Operation Epic Fury and then whatever 1396 01:02:05.519 --> 01:02:08.159 they're calling overseas operations and now eighteen dead, six hundred 1397 01:02:08.199 --> 01:02:10.800 and twenty four wounded, and so they've also they've really 1398 01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:13.920 not been very transparent about what those the wounded number means. Yeah, 1399 01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:16.119 they're like, oh, it's mostly minor concussions that they went 1400 01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:18.280 back to work, but you know, traumatic brain injuries from 1401 01:02:18.920 --> 01:02:22.239 you know, a ballistic missile exploding near you. That's a 1402 01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:25.280 big deal. And it also it's part and parcel to 1403 01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:28.519 the Pentagon covering up the cost of the war and 1404 01:02:28.679 --> 01:02:31.119 just not being transparent like I, you know, I have 1405 01:02:31.159 --> 01:02:33.239 friends who are still in the military or people who 1406 01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:35.360 are overseas will be like, you know, they're shutting down. 1407 01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:37.280 You can no longer take photos on some of these 1408 01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:41.199 bases because they're just so destroyed that they're basically rendered unusable. 1409 01:02:41.199 --> 01:02:43.480 People had to be evacuated from some of these places. 1410 01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:48.119 Like the cost of Basis just being like, you know, 1411 01:02:48.840 --> 01:02:51.519 inoperable for many years to come now has not really 1412 01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:52.639 been like fully calculated. 1413 01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:54.320 Ye have pig Sat going in front of the Senate 1414 01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:56.920 and saying this war costs thirty five billion dollars, but 1415 01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:01.320 we need eighty billion right now in emergency. And then 1416 01:03:01.320 --> 01:03:04.440 you're like, well, why don't you already have eighty billion 1417 01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:06.320 in cash, and he's like, no, no, no, I've already 1418 01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:08.559 decided what that's going for. And we have to do 1419 01:03:08.599 --> 01:03:11.039 this because Biden spent all of our money on Woke, 1420 01:03:11.079 --> 01:03:12.760 and it's like that may work in a Fox newshap, 1421 01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:14.079 What the fuck are you talking about? 1422 01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:16.199 How much this woke costs? All right? 1423 01:03:16.239 --> 01:03:18.800 Speaking of bombs. On Friday, the White House Correspondence Association 1424 01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:22.199 held its rescheduled dinner after a gunman interrupted the event 1425 01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:24.440 back in April. It was a smaller venue, with a 1426 01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:26.960 smaller crowd and more security, but Trump basically gave the 1427 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:29.880 speech he'd originally planned on giving, and bully, did he 1428 01:03:29.920 --> 01:03:30.320 crush it. 1429 01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:33.559 The other day, a senator I knew got a text 1430 01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:38.079 a great guy from his wife, and she said, when 1431 01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:40.920 you get home. I want to have you immediately come 1432 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:44.559 up the stairs and make love to me, and he 1433 01:03:44.679 --> 01:03:46.559 said I can't do both. 1434 01:03:47.599 --> 01:03:47.960 You know what? 1435 01:03:48.519 --> 01:03:52.280 You know in other words, can't go up the stairs? 1436 01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:54.960 And babe, does anybody get that? I thought that was 1437 01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:57.599 actually pretty good. That was actually the only thing I 1438 01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.199 thought was good in this whole freaking stupid space sit. 1439 01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:03.480 They wrote that was the only good one, and that 1440 01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:06.000 went down with not exactly great laughter. 1441 01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:07.920 I think you know, in other. 1442 01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:10.760 Words, you can't go up the stairs, were of them. 1443 01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:14.960 So we're looking for term limits. Does anybody understand is we. 1444 01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:18.840 Will have sloppy Chris Christi, one of the sloppiest human 1445 01:04:18.880 --> 01:04:23.199 beings you'll ever made. Fighting. I would say I could 1446 01:04:23.239 --> 01:04:26.239 mention the governor of Chicago, but I'm gonna mention instead 1447 01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:30.719 Jerry Nadler. And they're fighting for a big piece of cheesecake, 1448 01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:34.159 big fat piece of cheesecake. Who the hell wrote that line? 1449 01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:37.400 Barack Hussein Obama hosted it. Do you know who that is? 1450 01:04:38.920 --> 01:04:42.159 And he hit me hard And I have watched this 1451 01:04:42.280 --> 01:04:44.679 clip thousands of times. They keep playing it because they 1452 01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:47.239 think that was evening I decided to run for president. 1453 01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.880 It was not. He actually showed a picture of the 1454 01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:52.519 White House with a big Trump on top, like I 1455 01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:54.199 put us on and you know, I'm sort of doing 1456 01:04:54.239 --> 01:04:56.280 that when you think about it right now. 1457 01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:01.679 We have all said previously the Trump can be genuinely funny. 1458 01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:06.559 That was so bad that I almost started feeling sorry 1459 01:05:06.719 --> 01:05:10.559 for Donald Trump, which has never happened, but like, that 1460 01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:14.760 was incredibly painful, especially the sex up the stairs joke 1461 01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:17.320 when he goes and then he's like, ugh, that was 1462 01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:19.039 one of the better jokes, and then one more time 1463 01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:21.880 he's like, cause it's like the those third explanation of 1464 01:05:21.880 --> 01:05:22.199 the joke. 1465 01:05:22.239 --> 01:05:24.000 Did you see that he stole that joke too for Yeah, 1466 01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:25.800 from Brad Paisley lyric. 1467 01:05:25.960 --> 01:05:28.719 Well, it's a classic borsch Belt joke, and it could 1468 01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:31.840 have worked. The reason it didn't work is he we've 1469 01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:34.800 done many of these speeches you're trying to get it's 1470 01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:37.679 a it's a you're doing stand up ten fifteen minutes. 1471 01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:40.199 He was up there for an hour, an hour, an hour, 1472 01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:42.719 and by the time he gets to that light hearted 1473 01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:46.079 joke about senators being old, he described how much he 1474 01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:48.679 hates half the people in the room, called Don Lemon Dunn. 1475 01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:50.440 He said, Adam Schieve has an ugly fat head. 1476 01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:50.800 He hates. 1477 01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:55.079 Colbert compared Kaitlyn Collins to Dylan mulvaney, calls Josh Jossi unhiable, 1478 01:05:55.639 --> 01:05:59.760 Pulitzer right right award, and then he's like, anyway, anyway, boy, 1479 01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:02.440 you senators role these days, right. So of course by 1480 01:06:02.480 --> 01:06:03.840 the time you get to that part, like they've been 1481 01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:05.960 sitting there for forty five minutes, it's brutal. 1482 01:06:06.440 --> 01:06:08.039 He's never read the speech. This is the other thing. 1483 01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:11.039 It's like, you've got to I know, he thinks that 1484 01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:13.760 he's a genius and can just go off script whatever. 1485 01:06:14.039 --> 01:06:17.679 You gotta practice a speech like that. Can you imagine 1486 01:06:17.719 --> 01:06:18.960 Trump like practicing jokes? 1487 01:06:19.039 --> 01:06:19.760 No, I can't. 1488 01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:21.800 But he had like one good Barry Weiss joke. He 1489 01:06:21.800 --> 01:06:23.800 had a couple of like well structured. 1490 01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:25.599 Jokes that he even the Berry Wises joke, which was good. 1491 01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:28.519 He didn't like he didn't deliver it well, like he 1492 01:06:28.559 --> 01:06:30.000 could have delivered it in a funnier way. 1493 01:06:30.159 --> 01:06:32.840 But also I think it was in the prepared remarks. 1494 01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:35.440 There's like a like a portion of his stump about 1495 01:06:35.480 --> 01:06:37.679 Gavin Newsom in California that he seemed to be reading 1496 01:06:37.719 --> 01:06:40.360 off the teleprompter and it and so like he says 1497 01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:43.360 horrible things about elon Omar, Like he just goes into 1498 01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:47.400 his sort of vicious and cruel, mean spirited ripping and 1499 01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:49.760 so the whole like he doesn't he goes pokes a 1500 01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:51.840 little bit of fun at himself here and there, but like, 1501 01:06:52.400 --> 01:06:55.039 of course there's not gonna be people laughing. It's deeply 1502 01:06:55.119 --> 01:06:57.840 uncomfortable to be an event that's supposed to be lighthearted 1503 01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:00.199 and you just like go for the jugger like you 1504 01:07:00.199 --> 01:07:02.159 would at a rally. He's just like, you're not built 1505 01:07:02.199 --> 01:07:04.079 for this because you're such a fucking asshole, you know. 1506 01:07:04.159 --> 01:07:06.400 The comedy seller. At eleven PM, you're in front of 1507 01:07:06.440 --> 01:07:08.559 the most oversensitive group of people you can find, and 1508 01:07:08.639 --> 01:07:11.440 you're being somli. By the way, didn't Jerry Nadler like 1509 01:07:11.559 --> 01:07:13.679 hit the GLP ones a couple of years ago and 1510 01:07:13.719 --> 01:07:15.639 he's lost a ton of weight too. Yeah, the riffing 1511 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:16.800 made no sense and. 1512 01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:17.199 He did that. 1513 01:07:17.320 --> 01:07:20.000 He when he talked about Pritzker, the governor of Chicago, 1514 01:07:20.599 --> 01:07:21.519 he mentioned that as well too. 1515 01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:24.519 He's like he's actually looking better, He's looking better. 1516 01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:27.440 He's just the dick is really the problem. But it 1517 01:07:27.559 --> 01:07:29.440 started kind of magnanimous because like he did this whole 1518 01:07:29.480 --> 01:07:31.400 bit at the top about how like the last dinner 1519 01:07:31.519 --> 01:07:34.159 was bad and celebrated the you know, the cops who 1520 01:07:34.599 --> 01:07:36.840 kept everybody safe, and said how that they had to 1521 01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:39.599 you know, they wouldn't let the show get canceled because 1522 01:07:39.639 --> 01:07:41.679 that lets the shooter win. And then we just went 1523 01:07:41.719 --> 01:07:43.440 into this ti rate and. 1524 01:07:43.480 --> 01:07:46.639 When you looked at the all the cuts to the audience, 1525 01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:50.280 when you watch the whole thing, it was like just silent. 1526 01:07:50.320 --> 01:07:51.960 And also I know they said, oh, it's a room 1527 01:07:51.960 --> 01:07:53.760 full of journalists. They don't like Trump, but like all 1528 01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:55.719 of his administration, all his people were there. 1529 01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:56.920 No one was laughing. 1530 01:07:58.239 --> 01:08:01.000 Yeah, they just like the funniest thing was when he 1531 01:08:01.039 --> 01:08:02.840 got the laugh there and said I thought that was 1532 01:08:02.880 --> 01:08:03.840 the best joke of the bunch. 1533 01:08:04.599 --> 01:08:07.119 Yeah, the whole thing was very ugly, right, because he's 1534 01:08:07.159 --> 01:08:09.840 going after Caitlyn Collins and all these journalists in this 1535 01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:12.639 really personal and sort of obviously misogynist way. And then 1536 01:08:12.679 --> 01:08:16.199 you have like the the like reporters on the day 1537 01:08:16.199 --> 01:08:18.319 ass kind of like trying to like laugh and there 1538 01:08:18.800 --> 01:08:20.359 the whole thing was ugly. And so then you have 1539 01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:22.279 like New York Times reporters like Peter Baker being like, 1540 01:08:22.279 --> 01:08:24.520 we should rethink this dinner, which is they're on their 1541 01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:26.439 high horse about the fucking dinner because they haven't gone 1542 01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:28.640 forever and are glad for that decision. 1543 01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:30.319 To their credit, Yeah, to their credit. But he I 1544 01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:32.199 was like, what did anyone expect from him? Was he 1545 01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:34.960 going to learn this time? Obviously this is who he 1546 01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:36.319 is and what he was going to say. And by 1547 01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:38.520 the way, like he he says once he had two 1548 01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:42.800 jokes about Kaitlyn Collins. One was suggesting she looked like 1549 01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:44.760 Dylan mulvaney, which she just said. But then also being 1550 01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:47.239 like Kaitlyn Collins never smiles. He says that to her 1551 01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:50.119 all the time at press conferences. Every time she asked 1552 01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:52.239 him a tough question, he's like, what's your problem, your 1553 01:08:52.279 --> 01:08:52.760 pretty girl? 1554 01:08:52.880 --> 01:08:53.159 Smile? 1555 01:08:53.199 --> 01:08:56.239 He's said, a sexist old man, and like he doesn't 1556 01:08:56.279 --> 01:08:57.880 do that as part of a comedy bit. It's part 1557 01:08:57.920 --> 01:09:02.159 of his like stump deflection and routine for hard questions, 1558 01:09:02.199 --> 01:09:02.640 like he's. 1559 01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:03.119 Just a shithead. 1560 01:09:03.279 --> 01:09:06.039 Yeah, he's a shithead. It might be time to retire. Then, 1561 01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:10.199 now that we've moved it to the the former Trump 1562 01:09:10.279 --> 01:09:12.880 Hotel now the Waldorf Astoria, smaller so that. 1563 01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:17.399 When we knocked down the arch and we sort of 1564 01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:19.960 get the gold leaf off the White House and we 1565 01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:23.439 restore independence the Department of Justice at the bottom of 1566 01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:25.399 that list. We can decide what we want to do 1567 01:09:25.600 --> 01:09:26.680 with what happened to the White House. 1568 01:09:26.680 --> 01:09:32.680 Carss problem for sure, remaining rump state of media didn't stick. 1569 01:09:32.520 --> 01:09:34.079 Around for the mentalists have to say, I didn't didn't 1570 01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:35.000 catch O's didn't you? 1571 01:09:36.039 --> 01:09:36.359 He did it? 1572 01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:38.279 He did give he did do the joke, which was, 1573 01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:40.079 if you're such a mentalist, how come you didn't know 1574 01:09:40.119 --> 01:09:41.000 the shooting was coming. 1575 01:09:40.800 --> 01:09:43.039 Out with the joke everyone made the night of the shooting, 1576 01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:46.039 he'd all his worst show. 1577 01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:47.840 Is this still funny couple months later? No? 1578 01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:48.039 It? 1579 01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:52.039 It went crazy, all right? When we come back, Ben Wickler. 1580 01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:02.479 Pot tam Ma is brought to you by Chime. Summer 1581 01:10:02.520 --> 01:10:04.399 adds up fast, a trip here, at dinner there, a 1582 01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:06.479 couple concerts, a visit to an amusement park. It might 1583 01:10:06.640 --> 01:10:08.920 be wondering if you're getting the most out of your money. 1584 01:10:08.960 --> 01:10:11.079 That's where Chime comes in. Chime is changing the way 1585 01:10:11.119 --> 01:10:13.439 people bank. They're not like traditional banks. They have to 1586 01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:16.119 gate keep the best rewards and pylon hidden fees unless 1587 01:10:16.119 --> 01:10:18.600 you have a massive balance. Chime offers the most rewarding 1588 01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:22.439 fee free banking, all with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, 1589 01:10:22.520 --> 01:10:25.159 no minimum balance fees. You get five percent cash back 1590 01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:27.000 on Chime Card in a category of your choice like 1591 01:10:27.039 --> 01:10:30.239 gas or groceries, all while building credit through regular everyday spending. 1592 01:10:30.560 --> 01:10:33.079 No credit check required. You can also grow your money 1593 01:10:33.119 --> 01:10:35.760 faster where the savings rate that's nine times the national average. 1594 01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:37.479 And if you're ever in a pinch, spot me lets 1595 01:10:37.479 --> 01:10:40.039 you over drop up to two hundred dollars fee free. 1596 01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:42.479 Join the millions who are already banking fee free with 1597 01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:45.319 America's number one choice for banking. Head to Chime dot 1598 01:10:45.399 --> 01:10:48.920 com slash crooked. That is Chime dot com slash crooked. 1599 01:10:49.039 --> 01:10:51.640 Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime 1600 01:10:51.720 --> 01:10:53.800 is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime 1601 01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:56.960 Card provided by Chimes bank partners qualifying direct deposits required 1602 01:10:57.039 --> 01:10:59.279 terms and limits apply. Go to Chime dot com slash 1603 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:00.600 disclosures for details. 1604 01:11:05.880 --> 01:11:07.279 Ben with her welcome back to the show. 1605 01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:09.279 It's great to be with you, Congress in the new studio. 1606 01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:13.000 Thank you. It's pretty nice, pretty sweet, pretty fancy. All right. 1607 01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:15.000 So I want to get to the book, but first 1608 01:11:15.039 --> 01:11:18.239 I have to take advantage of the entirely coincidental but 1609 01:11:18.399 --> 01:11:22.159 highly opportune timing of you being here and ask about 1610 01:11:22.199 --> 01:11:26.159 the messy gubernatorial primary in your beloved state and the 1611 01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:29.239 messy leadership situation at the d n C which you 1612 01:11:29.319 --> 01:11:29.600 ran to. 1613 01:11:29.640 --> 01:11:31.079 Be chair of. I know you well. 1614 01:11:31.279 --> 01:11:33.560 You are far too wise and generous to shoot on 1615 01:11:33.640 --> 01:11:37.920 Ken Martin. I've got that covered, but I really want 1616 01:11:37.960 --> 01:11:43.239 your your honest thoughts on the DNC's financial situation. Ken's 1617 01:11:43.279 --> 01:11:47.600 argument is that a party is not a savings account, 1618 01:11:48.119 --> 01:11:51.479 that he chose to spend early on organizers and technology 1619 01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:55.279 and state party infrastructure. And that's also like more or 1620 01:11:55.359 --> 01:11:57.119 less your argument, the argument you make in the book. 1621 01:11:58.079 --> 01:12:00.439 But of course the party is now two million dollars 1622 01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:02.920 in debt while the RNC is sitting on one hundred 1623 01:12:02.920 --> 01:12:05.640 and twenty eight point five million dollars in cash. So 1624 01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:09.439 do you buy his defense that that's just the cost 1625 01:12:09.520 --> 01:12:10.239 of investing early. 1626 01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:14.720 So I agree that you should invest early. And the 1627 01:12:15.359 --> 01:12:17.760 goal what you want is to be able to do both. 1628 01:12:17.960 --> 01:12:20.439 You want to be able to both have the money 1629 01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:23.800 to invest in places that it'll take years to be 1630 01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:25.600 able to build the power to win statewide. But their 1631 01:12:25.680 --> 01:12:28.600 state legislative raises everywhere where we can win, and you 1632 01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:31.079 also want to have the ability to invest in the 1633 01:12:31.079 --> 01:12:34.439 places where elections are closest and highest stakes, and then 1634 01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:37.399 your tip those over the top. And I think the 1635 01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:40.720 challenge right now is there's not quite enough money to 1636 01:12:40.840 --> 01:12:43.520 do either. The other thing that's new in this moment 1637 01:12:43.640 --> 01:12:46.199 is the US Supreme Court ruling that allows parties to 1638 01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:50.199 invest in unlimited support for federal candidates. Wisconsin had a 1639 01:12:50.279 --> 01:12:52.479 version of that that was started under Scott Walker. We 1640 01:12:52.520 --> 01:12:54.760 call it the Scott Walker loophole, and it is the 1641 01:12:54.840 --> 01:12:57.359 way that we beat Elon Musk and you know who 1642 01:12:57.439 --> 01:13:00.800 outspent us dramatically, is that the Democratic Party Wisconsin was 1643 01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:03.159 able to raise money and then transfer it to our candidate, 1644 01:13:03.399 --> 01:13:05.239 who got a lower rate for TV ads than the 1645 01:13:05.399 --> 01:13:08.119 superback ads that Elon Musk was funding in our state. 1646 01:13:08.760 --> 01:13:11.399 We also had a better message, better candidate, and didn't 1647 01:13:11.439 --> 01:13:15.000 have Elon Musk hanging around our neck. But the and 1648 01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:17.600 huge grassroots organizing talk about that in the book, But 1649 01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:21.199 right now that means that national committees could do a 1650 01:13:21.279 --> 01:13:22.960 ton more if they have the money to be able 1651 01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:25.800 to do it to support candidates in the places, especially 1652 01:13:25.880 --> 01:13:28.560 for candidates who don't have huge fund raising abilities on 1653 01:13:28.600 --> 01:13:31.000 their own, but who have totally winnable seats and who, 1654 01:13:31.079 --> 01:13:33.239 if they have the funds to get their message out, 1655 01:13:33.600 --> 01:13:36.560 can win in places that are maybe off the national radar. 1656 01:13:37.039 --> 01:13:39.720 So this is a time when having more funds at 1657 01:13:39.720 --> 01:13:41.920 the DNC, having more funds at the other national committees 1658 01:13:42.119 --> 01:13:46.680 makes an enormous difference. And what I want is for 1659 01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:49.239 canon for the DNC to be as successful as possible. 1660 01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:52.479 I think there's a huge opportunity in this election, including 1661 01:13:52.520 --> 01:13:54.920 in a lot of places right now where Republicans aren't 1662 01:13:54.920 --> 01:13:58.199 investing and don't realize how mad voters are. So if 1663 01:13:58.279 --> 01:14:00.800 I wave a magic wand there's a a flood of 1664 01:14:00.840 --> 01:14:03.239 money that comes in and we're able to invest in 1665 01:14:03.479 --> 01:14:06.119 you know, winning sometimes in squeakers, in a whole bunch 1666 01:14:06.119 --> 01:14:08.720 of places that expand the map and safeguard the future 1667 01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:09.600 of American democracy. 1668 01:14:09.960 --> 01:14:11.840 Well, yeah, so that's what you just said. 1669 01:14:12.159 --> 01:14:15.439 I mean, you raised and spent sixty three million dollars 1670 01:14:15.479 --> 01:14:17.920 in twenty twenty four for the Wisconsin Democratic Party. That 1671 01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:21.399 sounds right, which is a little more than the entire 1672 01:14:21.479 --> 01:14:24.279 Democratic National Committee has raised so far in twenty twenty six. 1673 01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:27.439 Is the honest answer here that spending early only works 1674 01:14:27.439 --> 01:14:29.640 if you can also raise. Then the raising is the 1675 01:14:29.680 --> 01:14:30.199 failure here. 1676 01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:33.119 I mean there's I think there's a lot of puzzle 1677 01:14:33.119 --> 01:14:35.399 pieces here. I think that right now there's a kind 1678 01:14:35.439 --> 01:14:39.119 of like vicious circle where there's negative news cycles that 1679 01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:40.840 then make it hard to go out and say this 1680 01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:42.479 is a good time to invest. And I think that 1681 01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:45.840 starts changing when people see, oh yeah, if I donate here, 1682 01:14:45.880 --> 01:14:48.119 it's going to have a big impact on making making 1683 01:14:48.159 --> 01:14:50.520 things better and winning elections. And I think that's you know, 1684 01:14:50.640 --> 01:14:52.960 maybe that that change starts right here on the pot 1685 01:14:53.039 --> 01:14:56.119 John maybe, but whatever, whatever it is, like we can't 1686 01:14:57.279 --> 01:14:59.439 as long as we're in circular firing squad mode and 1687 01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:03.319 not you know, pointing to where we need to like 1688 01:15:03.439 --> 01:15:05.600 throw our shoulders against the wheel to save the country. 1689 01:15:05.920 --> 01:15:08.960 It's very hard to get out of that cycle. And also, 1690 01:15:09.520 --> 01:15:12.600 like the election is ninety nine days away, there's a 1691 01:15:12.720 --> 01:15:15.920 huge opportunity to like flood the zone in the places 1692 01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:18.239 where elections are likely to be tightest and where a 1693 01:15:18.319 --> 01:15:21.159 push can make the difference. And I will add that 1694 01:15:21.319 --> 01:15:24.279 that is not just House and Senate races, like at 1695 01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:26.439 all levels, there's going to be state legislative contests that 1696 01:15:26.479 --> 01:15:30.960 have enormous significance. One thing in a I think the 1697 01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:33.439 New York Times story was about the DNC helping Mississippi 1698 01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:36.239 break the Republican supermajority at the state level that I 1699 01:15:36.479 --> 01:15:39.279 love like that was one hundred thousand dollars investment played 1700 01:15:39.279 --> 01:15:40.520 a role. I'm sure there are a ton of other 1701 01:15:40.520 --> 01:15:44.239 people involved as well, but breaking Republican supermajorities in deep 1702 01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:46.720 red states can have an enormous impact on the future 1703 01:15:46.760 --> 01:15:49.600 of things like redistricting. So you know, part of the 1704 01:15:49.720 --> 01:15:52.640 argument of my book and my kind of life's work 1705 01:15:52.680 --> 01:15:55.560 at this moment and the Democratic Party is look at 1706 01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:57.840 the whole map of how power is built and wielded 1707 01:15:57.880 --> 01:16:00.600 in this country. The Right keeps you using its power 1708 01:16:00.720 --> 01:16:02.800 to rig everything so that only a handful of people 1709 01:16:02.800 --> 01:16:04.479 can write the rules for all of us. But if 1710 01:16:04.520 --> 01:16:06.279 you can unrig the system, often at the state and 1711 01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:09.319 local level, those races are often much less expensive and 1712 01:16:09.399 --> 01:16:11.960 have huge up ballot consequences. And I think it is 1713 01:16:12.439 --> 01:16:14.000 good to think as a party about how to fight 1714 01:16:14.039 --> 01:16:15.640 at all those levels at once in. 1715 01:16:15.680 --> 01:16:18.119 The interest of fixing things. What would you do about 1716 01:16:18.119 --> 01:16:20.760 the money situation if you were in Ken's position right now. 1717 01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:25.039 I would which I'm sure Ken is also working on. 1718 01:16:25.079 --> 01:16:26.640 I try to raise more money so that you have 1719 01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:29.359 more money to invest in the various things, and that 1720 01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:32.560 to me, the biggest thing is being able to lay 1721 01:16:32.600 --> 01:16:35.000 out if you invest here is how we're going to 1722 01:16:35.039 --> 01:16:38.239 be able to win more fights that folks care about. 1723 01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:42.359 There's often when people think about the corrupting influence of 1724 01:16:42.399 --> 01:16:45.600 money and politics, which you may have to look at 1725 01:16:45.600 --> 01:16:47.600 the news to see the corrupt influence of money and politics, 1726 01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:51.239 but very often it's about policies that particular candidates or 1727 01:16:51.359 --> 01:16:54.680 elected officials hold. Parties are not where people who want 1728 01:16:54.720 --> 01:16:58.279 to change policy. It's not where they give, especially when 1729 01:16:58.279 --> 01:17:01.600 there's not a democratic president. What parties do is they 1730 01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:05.840 help create infrastructure for victories or losses. And so the 1731 01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:09.039 way to raise money for the Democratic Party is fundamentally 1732 01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:12.359 to instill trust to demonstrate the results that come from 1733 01:17:12.359 --> 01:17:16.199 those investments. And for all the kind of debate about 1734 01:17:16.199 --> 01:17:18.079 the fifty state strategy, I think one of the things 1735 01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:20.079 that is really helpful is when you see what's being 1736 01:17:20.199 --> 01:17:23.600 done in particular states with those investments that actually generates 1737 01:17:23.640 --> 01:17:26.359 electoral victory, and then it makes you enthusiastic about investing. 1738 01:17:26.439 --> 01:17:28.119 And I think there's a lot of stories like that 1739 01:17:28.239 --> 01:17:30.720 that I would love to I'd love to see more 1740 01:17:30.760 --> 01:17:32.760 of and hear more about. I think about, you know, 1741 01:17:32.800 --> 01:17:34.520 some of the state parties that are doing amazing work, 1742 01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:39.600 like North Carolina. There's this huge focus on local organizing 1743 01:17:39.680 --> 01:17:41.960 that's going to affect things like the state Supreme Court race. 1744 01:17:42.199 --> 01:17:44.159 And the country is not thinking about the North Carolina 1745 01:17:44.199 --> 01:17:47.199 State Supreme Court. But the only reason Republicans have a 1746 01:17:47.279 --> 01:17:50.439 majority in the US House right now is because Republicans 1747 01:17:50.479 --> 01:17:52.920 won a state Supreme Court race there in twenty twenty 1748 01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:55.239 by four hundred and one votes, one hundredth of one 1749 01:17:55.239 --> 01:17:57.520 percent of all the votes cast in the state. And 1750 01:17:57.680 --> 01:18:00.199 that put in place a chief Justice who drove the 1751 01:18:00.279 --> 01:18:04.359 jerrymandering that gave the National Republicans their House majority at 1752 01:18:04.399 --> 01:18:07.279 this moment, And there's a Supreme Court race there this November. 1753 01:18:07.439 --> 01:18:09.920 Anita Earls is up for reelection. If she wins, they 1754 01:18:09.960 --> 01:18:12.479 could win a majority. Democrats could win a majority by 1755 01:18:12.479 --> 01:18:15.800 twenty twenty eight, and that could lead to the djerymandering 1756 01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:18.800 of that state and affect the future of American democracy. 1757 01:18:19.199 --> 01:18:21.239 And those are the kinds of things that state parties 1758 01:18:21.600 --> 01:18:23.880 specialize in and supporting state parties to do that kind 1759 01:18:23.880 --> 01:18:26.560 of work has a huge effect. I know, I'm personal 1760 01:18:26.600 --> 01:18:28.880 to my own state of Wisconsin, which we can all 1761 01:18:28.880 --> 01:18:31.239 agree is the best state, but it's also a place 1762 01:18:31.239 --> 01:18:33.840 where our state party has been deeply involved in state 1763 01:18:33.920 --> 01:18:37.319 legislative races, minoral races, state Supreme court election. This fall, 1764 01:18:37.960 --> 01:18:39.479 we have a chance to win both chambers of the 1765 01:18:39.479 --> 01:18:43.520 state legislature and across the country. Most people, I regret 1766 01:18:43.600 --> 01:18:46.359 to admit, are not thinking about the Wisconsin state legislative 1767 01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:49.600 battle of twenty twenty six, but that fight could dictator 1768 01:18:49.640 --> 01:18:52.239 proof Wisconsin. Before twenty twenty eight, we were the closest 1769 01:18:52.279 --> 01:18:54.880 state in the country to having the election overturned. After 1770 01:18:54.920 --> 01:18:56.760 twenty twenty, we know Trump is going to try to 1771 01:18:56.800 --> 01:18:59.199 pull something next time he is in danger of losing power. 1772 01:18:59.640 --> 01:19:02.119 You you lock down democracy at the state level, or 1773 01:19:02.199 --> 01:19:04.680 rather un rigged democracy at the state level. That is 1774 01:19:04.760 --> 01:19:08.039 the best way to defend national elections going forward. And 1775 01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:10.119 those are the kinds of races that you know have 1776 01:19:10.279 --> 01:19:12.560 supporting state parties right now, and the DNC is doing 1777 01:19:12.560 --> 01:19:14.520 a lot of Supporting state parties can have a huge 1778 01:19:14.520 --> 01:19:18.199 effect on so I look at the you know, it 1779 01:19:18.319 --> 01:19:20.560 is very painful to read the stories that are unfolding. 1780 01:19:20.680 --> 01:19:23.079 Everyone experiences that. I'm sure everyone within the DNC is, 1781 01:19:23.439 --> 01:19:25.920 you know, not not thrilled about the stories unfolding. But 1782 01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:29.359 there are giant opportunities that are right there where a 1783 01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:33.159 small investment can make a huge outside impact. Because Donald 1784 01:19:33.199 --> 01:19:35.560 Trump's IO sar On is not on those races, but 1785 01:19:35.760 --> 01:19:36.960 we can put our eye on the ball and we 1786 01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:37.760 can win and we can fight. 1787 01:19:38.399 --> 01:19:40.720 Yeah, I think I think what I'm most worried about 1788 01:19:40.880 --> 01:19:45.239 is like the DNC doesn't play the biggest role in 1789 01:19:45.319 --> 01:19:48.239 the midterms regardless, right the other party of the committees do, 1790 01:19:48.319 --> 01:19:50.760 and the state parties do certainly play a big role 1791 01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:54.039 in the twenty twenty eight race, and especially with that 1792 01:19:54.119 --> 01:19:56.560 Supreme Court decision. Now we'll play a big role because 1793 01:19:56.560 --> 01:19:58.840 people can donate now much more to the DNC and 1794 01:19:58.920 --> 01:20:00.960 that can help with the campaign directly. 1795 01:20:01.640 --> 01:20:06.000 And the stories are awful to read. No one wants that. 1796 01:20:06.079 --> 01:20:08.079 We all want the Democratic Party to be successful, in 1797 01:20:08.079 --> 01:20:10.560 the DNC to be successful. I think what strikes me 1798 01:20:10.720 --> 01:20:14.720 is that because they're coming from inside the DNC and 1799 01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:19.159 the DNC members, it makes me think that those are 1800 01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:21.840 people who also don't want bad press, but are at 1801 01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:24.880 this point like I'm talking. I'd rather talk and have 1802 01:20:24.960 --> 01:20:27.439 the bad stories and try to fix the situation than 1803 01:20:27.520 --> 01:20:29.840 continue to see this unfold. And I just saw today 1804 01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:33.359 Rufus Gifford, I'm sure you know. Rufus, who finance director 1805 01:20:33.399 --> 01:20:35.359 of the DNC, He's been finance director, worked there for 1806 01:20:35.439 --> 01:20:38.399 eight years, loves the place, you know, has said today 1807 01:20:38.479 --> 01:20:41.800 that the DNC is quote spiraling towards irrelevance and said 1808 01:20:41.840 --> 01:20:44.239 that Ken is a good man with good intentions, but 1809 01:20:44.359 --> 01:20:46.199 simply not meeting this critical moment. 1810 01:20:46.720 --> 01:20:47.279 Do you agree. 1811 01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:50.640 I am the guy who lost the election for DNC chair, 1812 01:20:50.880 --> 01:20:53.840 and I'm the last person you want to be armchair quarterback. 1813 01:20:54.159 --> 01:20:57.520 I can beat me by out organizing me in the 1814 01:20:57.600 --> 01:20:59.800 DNC race, and you know, building trust with voters over 1815 01:20:59.920 --> 01:21:03.239 U with the same kind of strategy that he and 1816 01:21:03.399 --> 01:21:05.920 I both think is really critical to winning elections at 1817 01:21:05.960 --> 01:21:07.760 every level. So I, you know, I don't want to 1818 01:21:07.760 --> 01:21:09.439 be in the middle of this. Not running for the 1819 01:21:09.439 --> 01:21:13.399 ancientia myself. Like I, my goal is to spread a 1820 01:21:13.399 --> 01:21:15.760 message to a much wider number of people about what 1821 01:21:16.159 --> 01:21:18.439 everyone can do. I have a chapter in my book 1822 01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:21.479 about the Democratic Party with the title it's my party, 1823 01:21:21.520 --> 01:21:24.199 and I'll cry if I want to something many you know, 1824 01:21:24.279 --> 01:21:27.640 people feel at various moments at all levels. And the 1825 01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:30.560 argument that I make is that the Democratic Party, however 1826 01:21:30.640 --> 01:21:33.119 you feel about it, it actually has a door that 1827 01:21:33.239 --> 01:21:36.039 is wide open, shockingly open. It is easier to join 1828 01:21:36.079 --> 01:21:39.560 the Democratic Party in whatever state people live in than 1829 01:21:39.640 --> 01:21:42.840 to join the Benevolent Order of the Elks or like 1830 01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:46.800 an even the old nineteenth twentieth century social civic organizations. 1831 01:21:47.640 --> 01:21:50.399 There's not some set of boxes that you have to check. 1832 01:21:50.520 --> 01:21:52.479 You can get involved and then you can you can 1833 01:21:52.920 --> 01:21:54.800 revitalize the party where you are. You can turn it 1834 01:21:54.880 --> 01:21:57.119 into a vessel for organizing and fighting. And I talk 1835 01:21:57.159 --> 01:21:59.239 to people who are like running for county party chair 1836 01:21:59.319 --> 01:22:02.159 all across the count who are mad about the way 1837 01:22:02.239 --> 01:22:05.199 things are going right now, and then they realize, Hey, 1838 01:22:05.239 --> 01:22:06.720 if I get a bunch of people together and we 1839 01:22:06.760 --> 01:22:09.600 get involved, we can just like take over around here. 1840 01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:12.119 And then we can start working to flip the city councils, 1841 01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:13.920 and we can win judicial races, we can flip the 1842 01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:17.039 state legislative seats. There are so many blue states where 1843 01:22:17.079 --> 01:22:19.680 there are people in offices that are not using them 1844 01:22:19.720 --> 01:22:21.840 to have the biggest impact that they could. And there's 1845 01:22:21.880 --> 01:22:24.479 so many places in red states where there's very little 1846 01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:29.560 Democratic Party organization, but if you build enough power, you 1847 01:22:29.600 --> 01:22:31.680 can push through and you can make huge change. And 1848 01:22:31.720 --> 01:22:34.359 then in purple states, it is shocking how few votes 1849 01:22:34.399 --> 01:22:37.720 wind up tipping the entire thing. So if anyone who's 1850 01:22:37.720 --> 01:22:41.359 frustrated about the Democratic Party right now, become the Democratic 1851 01:22:41.439 --> 01:22:43.039 Party and build the kind of party that you want 1852 01:22:43.119 --> 01:22:45.359 to be part of, like it is, it is right there, 1853 01:22:45.479 --> 01:22:48.479 and it is a it's a vessel for organizing that 1854 01:22:48.640 --> 01:22:52.159 unlike everything else, it exists everywhere, in every county, in 1855 01:22:52.199 --> 01:22:55.359 every community. And if we can make it stronger, and 1856 01:22:55.439 --> 01:22:58.079 we can make it a body that fights for things 1857 01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:00.520 that benefit everyone, then I think it has a huge 1858 01:23:00.560 --> 01:23:01.800 change on the whole future of the country. 1859 01:23:02.720 --> 01:23:06.159 Your book is excellent. Is tailor made for our audience, 1860 01:23:06.199 --> 01:23:08.359 so I hope everyone buys it. It's called this is 1861 01:23:08.399 --> 01:23:11.840 the Plan. Give us the cliff note version of what 1862 01:23:12.000 --> 01:23:12.479 the plan is. 1863 01:23:12.720 --> 01:23:15.880 Sure, So the plan starts with you, not just you, John, 1864 01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:20.399 but you the reader, viewer, listener, and the thing that 1865 01:23:20.479 --> 01:23:21.840 each of us can do. I have a chapter called 1866 01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:24.800 Unleash you'rre superpower, which is about both the kind of 1867 01:23:24.920 --> 01:23:27.560 art and science and practice of organizing, of getting people 1868 01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:29.479 together to do something they wouldn't otherwise do. So I 1869 01:23:29.560 --> 01:23:32.039 dig into how to have the biggest effect with your 1870 01:23:32.119 --> 01:23:34.279 volunteer hours if you can chip in money, the kinds 1871 01:23:34.279 --> 01:23:36.439 of stuff that makes the biggest difference. And then I 1872 01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:39.560 map out, drawing on the story of how we unrigged 1873 01:23:39.560 --> 01:23:42.239 our state legislative maps in Wisconsin, which is this huge 1874 01:23:42.399 --> 01:23:44.640 multi year fight that took a bunch of different offices. 1875 01:23:45.119 --> 01:23:47.560 I trace out what we can do nationwide to unrig 1876 01:23:47.640 --> 01:23:50.600 our system, which right now pretty clearly is a system 1877 01:23:50.600 --> 01:23:52.680 where a handful of far right billionaires write the rules 1878 01:23:52.720 --> 01:23:55.279 for everyone else to enrich themselves at all of our expense. 1879 01:23:55.520 --> 01:23:58.600 So how do we do that? Step one in twenty 1880 01:23:58.640 --> 01:24:02.800 twenty six fight for Houston Senate majorities. But the states 1881 01:24:02.880 --> 01:24:06.119 are the most critical battlefield because, especially if we win 1882 01:24:06.359 --> 01:24:10.239 trifact democratic trifectas in the battleground states a you can 1883 01:24:10.479 --> 01:24:13.199 you can pass laws in those states that prevent Trump 1884 01:24:13.239 --> 01:24:15.159 from being able to steal the twenty twenty eight election. 1885 01:24:16.119 --> 01:24:18.199 Elections are run by the states, So this is you know, 1886 01:24:18.479 --> 01:24:20.399 if you have people who refuse to play along with 1887 01:24:20.520 --> 01:24:22.560 coup attempts. It makes all the difference in the world. 1888 01:24:23.079 --> 01:24:25.560 You can also defame the electoral college. There's this law 1889 01:24:25.600 --> 01:24:28.600 called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which is a long, 1890 01:24:28.840 --> 01:24:32.680 nerdy name for an amazing bill that has been passed 1891 01:24:32.680 --> 01:24:33.800 already in eighteen states. 1892 01:24:35.000 --> 01:24:35.520 That's what I call it. 1893 01:24:35.640 --> 01:24:37.319 I came up with a way to pronounce the the 1894 01:24:37.439 --> 01:24:38.439 unpronounceable acronym. 1895 01:24:38.520 --> 01:24:40.239 That's great because every time I say it, I didn't 1896 01:24:40.239 --> 01:24:42.000 even I've never said the acronym, and I'm always like, 1897 01:24:42.039 --> 01:24:44.079 it's the National Compact something voter. 1898 01:24:44.439 --> 01:24:46.359 Yeah, nivid rhymes with lipstick nipfick. 1899 01:24:46.399 --> 01:24:49.399 We gotta spread nipfick across the country if we if 1900 01:24:49.640 --> 01:24:51.199 no other thing happens, if we all be able to 1901 01:24:51.319 --> 01:24:53.600 find a way to stay niphick, then I will not 1902 01:24:53.680 --> 01:24:55.159 be satisfied with the impact of the book, but I'll 1903 01:24:55.159 --> 01:24:58.199 be happy. So uh, that is a bill that if 1904 01:24:58.239 --> 01:25:00.399 we pass it through the states where Democrats can win 1905 01:25:00.439 --> 01:25:03.560 trifectas in twenty twenty six, you can make it so 1906 01:25:03.640 --> 01:25:06.600 that whoever wins the National Popular Vote wins the presidential election. 1907 01:25:06.760 --> 01:25:09.319 Because states decide where they put their electoral college votes. 1908 01:25:09.359 --> 01:25:12.159 It is very, very close to actually. 1909 01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:14.960 Happening, and basically, so it's like a backdoor way of 1910 01:25:15.640 --> 01:25:19.560 eliminating the electoral college, because the Constitution gives states the power, 1911 01:25:19.680 --> 01:25:22.880 the ultimate power to decide how they assign their electors. 1912 01:25:23.199 --> 01:25:26.359 So the state legislators can decide, we're going to assign 1913 01:25:26.840 --> 01:25:31.239 our electors to the winner of the national popular vote, 1914 01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:33.960 and then that way you can kind of go around 1915 01:25:33.960 --> 01:25:34.600 the electoral college. 1916 01:25:34.600 --> 01:25:36.319 That's exactly it. So I was actually talking to Heather 1917 01:25:36.399 --> 01:25:40.079 Cox richardsoner historian about this, and she was pointing out 1918 01:25:40.119 --> 01:25:44.520 to me that originally overwhelmingly states gave their electoral college 1919 01:25:44.600 --> 01:25:47.039 votes on a proportional basis, the way that like Nebraska 1920 01:25:47.079 --> 01:25:50.199 and mayn still do. And then a few states realized, 1921 01:25:50.199 --> 01:25:52.479 starting with Thomas Jefferson in Virginia, that if he made 1922 01:25:52.520 --> 01:25:56.199 his state go for whoever won the majority winner take all, 1923 01:25:56.359 --> 01:25:58.199 that would give him advantage. So then every state kind 1924 01:25:58.199 --> 01:26:00.000 of went to that system. The only way to get 1925 01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:02.479 back to a proportional system is if all is if 1926 01:26:02.600 --> 01:26:04.680 enough states decide to jump together. So this is what's 1927 01:26:04.680 --> 01:26:06.560 special about this law is that it only takes effect 1928 01:26:07.119 --> 01:26:09.840 when enough states have passed the law to choose the 1929 01:26:09.880 --> 01:26:12.239 next president, which means that you know, it's not like 1930 01:26:12.319 --> 01:26:14.119 you're gonna throw away your vote or dilute your power 1931 01:26:14.479 --> 01:26:17.239 until the moment when everyone holds hands jumps together, and 1932 01:26:17.319 --> 01:26:21.000 then all two seventy plus electoral College votes of states 1933 01:26:21.039 --> 01:26:23.000 that have passed this law go to whoever wins the 1934 01:26:23.079 --> 01:26:26.199 national popular vote, and then it transforms this country, like 1935 01:26:26.319 --> 01:26:28.880 we end the era of swing states and safe states. 1936 01:26:28.880 --> 01:26:31.000 Every person's ballot counts the same. The fight for voting 1937 01:26:31.079 --> 01:26:34.680 rights laws in every state suddenly affect the whole national picture. 1938 01:26:35.520 --> 01:26:38.479 It's you know it would it would be complicated and messy, 1939 01:26:38.560 --> 01:26:40.720 but also glorious and I want it so bad. 1940 01:26:40.880 --> 01:26:42.640 I love it. I've thought about it. 1941 01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:44.199 For a while now, and I've been like keeping track 1942 01:26:44.239 --> 01:26:46.840 of how close we're getting to, like the so close. Yeah, 1943 01:26:47.039 --> 01:26:49.239 we're pretty close. Now, are you where with the legal 1944 01:26:49.359 --> 01:26:52.840 challenges or that, like whether it survives legal challenges, because 1945 01:26:52.840 --> 01:26:55.920 there's there's a few arguments, legal arguments about like why 1946 01:26:56.039 --> 01:26:58.600 it might be tricky to pull off, And one of 1947 01:26:58.640 --> 01:27:01.039 the more practical ones is that like it wouldn't get 1948 01:27:01.119 --> 01:27:04.279 challenged until like in the midst of an election, So. 1949 01:27:04.520 --> 01:27:06.640 It has provisions in it about like how to be 1950 01:27:06.720 --> 01:27:09.319 able to withdraw from it and so forth. You know, 1951 01:27:09.399 --> 01:27:11.920 it's been like scrutinizing a whole bunch of different ways. 1952 01:27:11.960 --> 01:27:13.960 And I think it's it looks legally signed. To me, 1953 01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:16.520 I'm I'm not a lawyer myself. I will say, even 1954 01:27:16.680 --> 01:27:19.279 if it is completely legally legit, I say that this 1955 01:27:19.439 --> 01:27:21.640 Supreme Court might find some basis so much to strike 1956 01:27:21.680 --> 01:27:23.560 it down. So that goes to another thing I argue 1957 01:27:23.600 --> 01:27:25.560 for in the book. So, you know, step, when we 1958 01:27:25.640 --> 01:27:27.920 win the states, we start moving in nipfick through the state, 1959 01:27:28.039 --> 01:27:30.880 through more state legislatures. We need forty eight more electoral 1960 01:27:31.079 --> 01:27:32.920 college votes to be able to put it into effects. 1961 01:27:33.000 --> 01:27:36.840 So when trifecta is in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, 1962 01:27:37.039 --> 01:27:40.600 New Hampshire, boom, more than enough electoral College votes. Great, 1963 01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:44.000 let's add Alaska while we're at it. Yeah, But then 1964 01:27:44.199 --> 01:27:48.119 twenty twenty eight comes along and we existentially have to 1965 01:27:48.159 --> 01:27:51.960 win presidency, House and US Senate, and I think ideally 1966 01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:54.399 we win a majority of the House delegations in a 1967 01:27:54.479 --> 01:27:57.880 majority of states, so that if Trump once again tries 1968 01:27:57.920 --> 01:27:59.680 to mess with the electoral college, if it's still in 1969 01:27:59.760 --> 01:28:02.279 place in the way that it is right now, and 1970 01:28:02.359 --> 01:28:03.960 the election goes to a vote in the House of 1971 01:28:04.039 --> 01:28:06.840 House Delegations that the election is not overturned through another 1972 01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:08.039 coup attempts. 1973 01:28:07.720 --> 01:28:10.600 Which how close the way to a majority of House delegations. 1974 01:28:10.479 --> 01:28:14.279 Far We are far right now. Right now, Republicans have 1975 01:28:14.359 --> 01:28:17.520 thirty House delegation majorities, and we have two election cycles 1976 01:28:17.560 --> 01:28:19.520 to be able to change that. And so that is 1977 01:28:19.600 --> 01:28:21.000 totally doable, and you can far. 1978 01:28:21.119 --> 01:28:22.680 It's not crazy far, it's not crazy. 1979 01:28:22.800 --> 01:28:25.800 Yeah, And there are enough states where we could absolutely 1980 01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:29.079 be able to win. It means organizing in places like 1981 01:28:29.159 --> 01:28:32.479 Alaska where Trump won by fourteen percentage points but is 1982 01:28:32.560 --> 01:28:36.359 now hideously unpopular and Mary Peltola would win the Senate race. 1983 01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:37.720 We can win the House race, We could win the 1984 01:28:37.760 --> 01:28:40.520 governorship there, We could have multi party coalitions in the 1985 01:28:40.560 --> 01:28:44.159 legislature like Iowa, we could win a majority of the 1986 01:28:44.199 --> 01:28:47.159 House seats as well as the governorship, the attorney general's race, 1987 01:28:47.239 --> 01:28:50.159 the US Senate race like there are ways that we 1988 01:28:50.239 --> 01:28:54.399 can flip House delegation majorities that also, by the way, 1989 01:28:54.520 --> 01:28:56.560 make life better for people in those states and win 1990 01:28:56.720 --> 01:29:01.479 US Senate majorities. So big map, big field, lots to do. 1991 01:29:01.760 --> 01:29:04.560 And my argument to people is work where you are 1992 01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:07.960 to improve policies, you know, build organized locally, and then 1993 01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:11.479 choose some places, maybe one place where elections are really close. 1994 01:29:11.479 --> 01:29:13.239 It could be adopting a house district. It could be 1995 01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:16.840 deciding to adopt a state legislative chamber and pour yourself, 1996 01:29:16.840 --> 01:29:18.600 get a group of friends together, pour yourself into making 1997 01:29:18.600 --> 01:29:20.680 a difference in that place too. This is a vote 1998 01:29:20.680 --> 01:29:22.479 save of America's Adopt a State project. There you go 1999 01:29:22.680 --> 01:29:24.880 pioneering in this regard. If you do that for a 2000 01:29:24.880 --> 01:29:27.960 couple hours a month, then you know, add up enough 2001 01:29:28.119 --> 01:29:30.880 months and you can have a gigantic impact, especially if 2002 01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:32.479 you you know, find a way to make it fun 2003 01:29:32.600 --> 01:29:35.159 with your friends, maybe involving alcohol or you know, some 2004 01:29:35.279 --> 01:29:37.279 kind of beverage. Like there's lots of there's lots of 2005 01:29:37.319 --> 01:29:40.399 ways to do this. They can feel really good when 2006 01:29:40.439 --> 01:29:42.199 you win. This is one of the reasons I think 2007 01:29:42.239 --> 01:29:44.039 we have so many volunteers in Wisconsin is we've found 2008 01:29:44.079 --> 01:29:45.880 way we lean into so many different fights. People have 2009 01:29:45.960 --> 01:29:48.439 the experience of being part of winning something, often something 2010 01:29:48.560 --> 01:29:51.479 very close, over and over and it feels incredible to 2011 01:29:51.640 --> 01:29:53.359 like stay up late, watch the returns come in and 2012 01:29:53.439 --> 01:29:55.560 realize that you help make the difference in a nail 2013 01:29:55.600 --> 01:29:56.960 bier election that changes everything. 2014 01:29:57.039 --> 01:29:58.920 So best feeling in the world. Best feeling if you're 2015 01:29:58.920 --> 01:30:01.159 a political nerd. Yeah, I mean, if you're not, it'll 2016 01:30:01.319 --> 01:30:02.239 it'll be pretty good. 2017 01:30:02.359 --> 01:30:05.079 It'll turn you into politically it's landslides are great. 2018 01:30:05.960 --> 01:30:06.520 Love those two. 2019 01:30:06.680 --> 01:30:09.920 But the like, if we're winning landslides, then our map's 2020 01:30:09.960 --> 01:30:11.239 not big enough, you know what I mean, Like, there's 2021 01:30:11.279 --> 01:30:14.560 so many places where one more push can get us 2022 01:30:14.600 --> 01:30:16.319 over the edge, and let's do those places too. So 2023 01:30:16.960 --> 01:30:19.920 twenty eight we win the federal trifecta. We get through 2024 01:30:20.000 --> 01:30:22.239 whatever coup attempt it is that Donald Trump tries to pull, 2025 01:30:22.319 --> 01:30:25.680 and we thank goodness that we elected pro democracy mayors 2026 01:30:25.720 --> 01:30:28.159 and governors and attorneys general who fought back against whatever 2027 01:30:28.359 --> 01:30:31.640 Trump's genangans turned out to be. We have a new president. 2028 01:30:31.880 --> 01:30:34.439 They do an inaugural address to great speech. They have 2029 01:30:34.520 --> 01:30:37.720 an even bigger crowd than Trump's twenty sixteen inaugural. We're thrilled. 2030 01:30:38.880 --> 01:30:42.399 And then and this is a big and then we 2031 01:30:42.840 --> 01:30:46.760 have to actually abolish the filibuster and pass fundamental democracy 2032 01:30:46.840 --> 01:30:49.239 reform to unrig the American system of government. And that 2033 01:30:49.520 --> 01:30:52.000 that is I go sort of level by level of 2034 01:30:52.079 --> 01:30:54.479 the American political system in the book and who's working 2035 01:30:54.560 --> 01:30:56.039 on it, where we need to win to be able 2036 01:30:56.079 --> 01:30:58.680 to change it. But my argument that all kind of 2037 01:30:58.800 --> 01:31:00.399 rolls up to the plan in this of the plan 2038 01:31:01.479 --> 01:31:06.880 is that we have to add states to unbalance the 2039 01:31:06.960 --> 01:31:08.920 US Senate. We have to reform the US Supreme Court. 2040 01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:11.479 I think term limits is the most interesting option. If 2041 01:31:11.920 --> 01:31:14.560 the US Supreme Court decides that Congress doesn't have the 2042 01:31:14.560 --> 01:31:16.119 power to do that, then it certainly has the power 2043 01:31:16.159 --> 01:31:17.960 to expand the number of justices. So there's another option 2044 01:31:18.039 --> 01:31:21.600 there too. We have to have some combination of a 2045 01:31:21.680 --> 01:31:25.079 national jerrymandering ban and doubling the size of the House. 2046 01:31:25.239 --> 01:31:28.720 I'm really interested in proportional representation for US House members 2047 01:31:28.760 --> 01:31:31.199 with multi member districts. These are ideas that a lot 2048 01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:32.840 of people don't know about right now or read about 2049 01:31:32.840 --> 01:31:34.920 them in the book. There's like lots of countries that 2050 01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:36.680 do this. I mean in American history, these things have 2051 01:31:36.760 --> 01:31:40.119 happened before. But this system right now, where we've got 2052 01:31:40.279 --> 01:31:43.560 the Voting Rights Act, where we can have the country 2053 01:31:43.640 --> 01:31:46.439 completely rigged after each census and even in between the census, 2054 01:31:46.520 --> 01:31:49.920 so most House districts voters have no real say where 2055 01:31:50.079 --> 01:31:53.039 Republicans have a structural advantage in the US Senate, plus 2056 01:31:53.479 --> 01:31:56.479 a filibuster that only blocks things that Democrats might want 2057 01:31:56.520 --> 01:31:58.520 to do. Essentially, it allows tax cuts for rich people 2058 01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:01.439 in confirmation to Supreme Court justice. And then this imperial 2059 01:32:01.479 --> 01:32:05.760 presidency chosen through the electoral college that Congress can't act 2060 01:32:05.960 --> 01:32:08.479 to do anything about because of the filibuster, and the 2061 01:32:08.560 --> 01:32:12.199 courts won't do anything because they have a hammer lock 2062 01:32:12.239 --> 01:32:14.560 on the US Supreme Court. It just doesn't work. It 2063 01:32:14.640 --> 01:32:17.479 doesn't work to have a country that has a huge 2064 01:32:17.600 --> 01:32:20.319 diversity of views in which our structures are built to 2065 01:32:20.479 --> 01:32:23.520 ratchet things just to the right. And so what we've 2066 01:32:23.560 --> 01:32:26.760 experienced this century is, more than any other time in 2067 01:32:26.800 --> 01:32:29.720 American history, a series of change elections where people are 2068 01:32:29.760 --> 01:32:32.399 fed up and they vote for change, and when Republicans come, 2069 01:32:32.439 --> 01:32:35.520 they're like, not that, like that. The Repolicans screw everything up. 2070 01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:37.279 And when Democrats come in, a whole bunch of the 2071 01:32:37.319 --> 01:32:39.479 stuff that they campaign on they can't do because the 2072 01:32:39.560 --> 01:32:41.880 system is set up to block it. The US Supreme 2073 01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:45.600 Court strikes it down, the Senate filibuster blocks it. And 2074 01:32:45.720 --> 01:32:48.560 so a lot of people feel, and I think rightly, 2075 01:32:48.920 --> 01:32:51.239 that the economic system is not working for them that 2076 01:32:51.960 --> 01:32:54.600 like basic things like being able to get healthcare or childcare. 2077 01:32:55.119 --> 01:32:56.760 They vote for people who say that they're going to 2078 01:32:57.000 --> 01:32:59.319 deliver it, and then it doesn't come through. And if 2079 01:32:59.319 --> 01:33:01.680 you ask yourself why that is, it is generally not 2080 01:33:02.119 --> 01:33:05.119 that Democrats have a failure of nerve to vote for 2081 01:33:05.159 --> 01:33:06.840 the thing they want. The House passes these things over 2082 01:33:06.880 --> 01:33:08.800 and over again. It's because we have a system that 2083 01:33:08.880 --> 01:33:12.720 is rigged against delivering for regular people. And so this 2084 01:33:12.880 --> 01:33:15.079 is the plan maps out the plan to change that 2085 01:33:15.239 --> 01:33:18.000 in a way that we've changed how the government functions 2086 01:33:18.079 --> 01:33:20.319 over and over throughout history, and then about a half 2087 01:33:20.399 --> 01:33:22.720 century ago, we stopped. We stopped the mend in the Constitution, 2088 01:33:22.920 --> 01:33:26.359 we stopped adding states, we stopped changing how senator are elected, 2089 01:33:26.399 --> 01:33:28.079 we stopped changing the sides of the House, we stopped 2090 01:33:28.279 --> 01:33:30.800 changing the size of the Supreme Court. All those things 2091 01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:33.560 used to change regularly, and we've been stuck in this 2092 01:33:33.720 --> 01:33:36.279 kind of failure mode where the change that people are 2093 01:33:36.399 --> 01:33:39.880 vote for, organized for, cry out for, never comes. And 2094 01:33:40.359 --> 01:33:43.479 I think it is time to change the delivery vehicle 2095 01:33:43.600 --> 01:33:47.479 for change itself and restore the vision of the best 2096 01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:49.640 traditions of our country and the best moments in the 2097 01:33:49.840 --> 01:33:52.279 founding of this country, which is a system of government 2098 01:33:52.319 --> 01:33:54.159 that actually adapts to be able to respond to the 2099 01:33:54.199 --> 01:33:56.439 crises and needs of the time, where the right of 2100 01:33:56.479 --> 01:33:59.119 the people, as you know, as it says in the 2101 01:33:59.479 --> 01:34:02.720 Declaration of Independence, to make their government actually work is 2102 01:34:03.199 --> 01:34:03.600 made real. 2103 01:34:04.119 --> 01:34:07.560 So I don't know if people realize or remember, because 2104 01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:10.159 now it was all of five years ago, how close 2105 01:34:10.199 --> 01:34:13.359 we were in twenty one to getting rid of the 2106 01:34:13.359 --> 01:34:17.479 filibuster to pass the John Lewis Foting Rights Act. It 2107 01:34:17.600 --> 01:34:20.479 was just Mansion in Cinema were the only Democrats not 2108 01:34:20.600 --> 01:34:24.960 willing to remove the filibuster. They're both gone. Cinema was 2109 01:34:25.000 --> 01:34:27.640 replaced with Diego, who's certain totally in favor of that. 2110 01:34:28.039 --> 01:34:31.319 So we basically need a fifty one vote majority, and 2111 01:34:31.439 --> 01:34:33.720 hopefully if we elect some of these new senators and 2112 01:34:33.720 --> 01:34:35.239 some of these tough states, they'll be there as well. 2113 01:34:36.760 --> 01:34:41.319 You bring up the twenty thirty then becomes a pretty 2114 01:34:41.319 --> 01:34:43.159 important year. Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, 2115 01:34:43.159 --> 01:34:44.880 but it's part of the plan, because we do all 2116 01:34:44.920 --> 01:34:47.880 these things in twenty eight. One part of your plan 2117 01:34:48.079 --> 01:34:51.119 is to for Democrats to survive the twenty thirty backlash. 2118 01:34:51.439 --> 01:34:53.600 We know there's always a backlash after there's a trifecta. 2119 01:34:53.640 --> 01:34:55.359 There was in twenty ten, you know there could be 2120 01:34:55.399 --> 01:34:56.359 in twenty thirty. 2121 01:34:56.359 --> 01:34:57.479 If this all comes to pass. 2122 01:34:58.119 --> 01:35:01.159 And I wonder what you think of because you're right, 2123 01:35:01.239 --> 01:35:03.000 there've been and you have this stat in the book 2124 01:35:03.039 --> 01:35:06.279 that there have been more sort of change elections like 2125 01:35:07.199 --> 01:35:10.760 party switching power in the last however many years than 2126 01:35:10.800 --> 01:35:12.199 there have been like all throughout history. 2127 01:35:12.279 --> 01:35:13.359 Was like the last couple decades. 2128 01:35:13.399 --> 01:35:16.239 In two thousand, we've had more change in the White House, 2129 01:35:16.319 --> 01:35:18.000 the US House, and the US Senate. 2130 01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:19.760 Than any other time any other time of history. And 2131 01:35:20.159 --> 01:35:23.600 I wonder, like, is there sometimes I wonder this too? 2132 01:35:23.800 --> 01:35:28.199 Is there evidence that delivering actual change, tangible change that 2133 01:35:28.640 --> 01:35:32.800 improves people's lives makes them satisfied enough to not vote 2134 01:35:32.800 --> 01:35:37.039 for change? Again, considering that, you know, Biden passed quite 2135 01:35:37.039 --> 01:35:38.960 a bit in his first couple of years. He passed 2136 01:35:38.960 --> 01:35:42.199 similar checks aside from those the climate investments, everything that 2137 01:35:42.319 --> 01:35:44.279 was in the Build Back Better Bill that was more 2138 01:35:44.399 --> 01:35:47.399 long term investments. Do you think that in addition to 2139 01:35:47.439 --> 01:35:50.159 those democracy reforms in twenty eight Democrats need to pass 2140 01:35:50.239 --> 01:35:54.079 legislation that like improves people's lives absolutely within those first 2141 01:35:54.119 --> 01:35:54.600 two years. 2142 01:35:54.680 --> 01:35:58.199 That's the whole thing. So I want to respond kind 2143 01:35:58.199 --> 01:36:01.560 of at three level. Sure, all right, at the micro level, 2144 01:36:02.359 --> 01:36:06.800 something that I think people forget and very little discussion 2145 01:36:06.840 --> 01:36:09.479 of is that when Biden came in, the emergency measures 2146 01:36:09.520 --> 01:36:12.880 to deal with the COVID pandemic, the expanded unemployment insurance, 2147 01:36:12.920 --> 01:36:15.199 the childcare tax credit, there was a set of things 2148 01:36:15.279 --> 01:36:20.439 that dramatically increased the kind of disposable income for especially 2149 01:36:20.560 --> 01:36:22.960 like the bottom third economically of the country. And it 2150 01:36:23.039 --> 01:36:26.960 was incredibly popular at that time, and then it all 2151 01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:29.760 went away. And so even though it is true that 2152 01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:33.159 like wages grew from the bottom up in the Biden economy, 2153 01:36:33.640 --> 01:36:36.880 for a ton of Americans, especially the people who were 2154 01:36:36.920 --> 01:36:39.520 having the toughest luck in the economy, they got a 2155 01:36:39.560 --> 01:36:41.600 bunch of help, and then suddenly the carpet was yanked 2156 01:36:41.600 --> 01:36:43.399 out from under them, and at the same time as 2157 01:36:43.439 --> 01:36:47.960 prices were rising. So their experience was that their wages, 2158 01:36:48.079 --> 01:36:50.640 their income went down at the same time as prices 2159 01:36:50.680 --> 01:36:53.079 were going up. And those are the exact voters who 2160 01:36:53.159 --> 01:36:55.399 went for Trump for the first time in either of 2161 01:36:55.439 --> 01:36:57.880 our lives. People earning less than fifty thousand dollars a 2162 01:36:57.960 --> 01:37:00.439 year voted Republican in the twenty twenty four president election. 2163 01:37:00.960 --> 01:37:03.479 So I actually think we sort of have a counter example, 2164 01:37:03.800 --> 01:37:06.319 like we have an example for ourselves of if people 2165 01:37:06.359 --> 01:37:10.279 are experiencing material pain, then they will vote for change. 2166 01:37:10.479 --> 01:37:12.159 And that party that part. 2167 01:37:12.199 --> 01:37:13.880 We know, we kind of saw that, right and and 2168 01:37:13.960 --> 01:37:16.880 around the world in every country, the governing party wound 2169 01:37:16.920 --> 01:37:19.279 up losing ground in developed democracies in twenty twenty four, 2170 01:37:19.319 --> 01:37:22.159 as I right, and prices, inflation and cost of living 2171 01:37:22.239 --> 01:37:24.239 was the biggest issue everywhere, but we actually were doing 2172 01:37:24.560 --> 01:37:27.199 doing something serious about it, and then we stopped. And 2173 01:37:27.319 --> 01:37:29.239 that was there were some policy design choices in there 2174 01:37:29.279 --> 01:37:31.479 that I, you know, I think we should rethink how 2175 01:37:31.520 --> 01:37:33.439 we think about that stuff in the future. That's kind 2176 01:37:33.439 --> 01:37:38.560 of micro level. The second level is the I was 2177 01:37:38.600 --> 01:37:42.760 once talking to an administration official who said, when you 2178 01:37:42.840 --> 01:37:46.079 propose a policy, it's popular. When it's being passed, it's unpopular. 2179 01:37:46.159 --> 01:37:48.479 When it's being implemented, it's unpopular, But when the other 2180 01:37:48.479 --> 01:37:50.479 side drives to take it away, it becomes popular again. 2181 01:37:51.119 --> 01:37:56.479 And perfect example, right, and you know, the battle like 2182 01:37:56.680 --> 01:37:58.560 a bunch of different policies that have been good for 2183 01:37:58.640 --> 01:38:03.159 people have this quality. And to me, the goal of politics, 2184 01:38:03.680 --> 01:38:06.760 you win in order to be able to pass policies 2185 01:38:06.800 --> 01:38:09.560 that make people's lives better. So it is, you know, 2186 01:38:09.720 --> 01:38:11.720 it might not be that there's an iMedia policy reward, 2187 01:38:11.760 --> 01:38:13.880 and especially policies that take a while to actually like 2188 01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:16.560 implement and get them going. It might be that you 2189 01:38:16.640 --> 01:38:19.079 were kind of creating something that the other side can't 2190 01:38:19.079 --> 01:38:21.800 take away that creates an enduring benefit for people. And 2191 01:38:22.119 --> 01:38:24.399 I think that the ACA is proven to be an 2192 01:38:24.560 --> 01:38:28.039 enormous help for Democrats. Twenty eighteen, Republicans try to take 2193 01:38:28.039 --> 01:38:29.560 it away and it was the number one issue, and 2194 01:38:29.760 --> 01:38:33.319 once again Republicans cutting medicids spending that was expanded through 2195 01:38:33.319 --> 01:38:35.840 the ACA. It is an explosive issue that helps Democrats 2196 01:38:35.920 --> 01:38:38.800 right now. So I do think that there's even if 2197 01:38:38.840 --> 01:38:40.479 it takes a couple of cycles, I do think there's 2198 01:38:40.560 --> 01:38:43.319 like a pretty clear path that you can draw towards. 2199 01:38:43.439 --> 01:38:45.359 If you do stuff to help people, then the party 2200 01:38:45.399 --> 01:38:47.760 that tries to scrap it takes a price. And if 2201 01:38:47.840 --> 01:38:49.359 we are the party that keeps doing the good things, 2202 01:38:49.399 --> 01:38:52.000 then the Rebublicans trying to scrap it have a price. 2203 01:38:52.399 --> 01:38:56.159 But the last thing, there's this the very macro level, 2204 01:38:56.479 --> 01:38:59.239 this concept in political sides of political orders, which is 2205 01:39:00.079 --> 01:39:02.760 essentially what's not controversial in a period of time is 2206 01:39:02.840 --> 01:39:04.520 the thing that tells you the most about that period. 2207 01:39:04.680 --> 01:39:08.239 So after the New Deal, there was Eisenhower came in 2208 01:39:08.359 --> 01:39:10.600 and he did not try to rip up the New Deal. 2209 01:39:11.239 --> 01:39:14.880 The political order for decades was that the New Deal 2210 01:39:14.960 --> 01:39:18.199 programs and the sort of set of economic guarantees, those 2211 01:39:18.239 --> 01:39:21.439 were beyond politics and through Reagan exactly, and then came 2212 01:39:21.479 --> 01:39:24.319 the neoliberal order, and Reagan and Reagan you know, did 2213 01:39:24.479 --> 01:39:26.600 union busting and deregulation and a bunch of stuff that 2214 01:39:26.720 --> 01:39:30.920 is you know, still raging through American politics, and a 2215 01:39:30.960 --> 01:39:33.039 lot of that stuff wasn't contested. Both parties were kind 2216 01:39:33.039 --> 01:39:36.199 of fighting on that terrain. The really big goal is 2217 01:39:36.279 --> 01:39:39.159 to build a new political order. And I think what 2218 01:39:39.319 --> 01:39:41.239 we want is a political order for the future where 2219 01:39:41.760 --> 01:39:44.640 which party, you know, wins might change hands, but that 2220 01:39:44.800 --> 01:39:47.920 certain things are actually built in to me. Things that 2221 01:39:48.159 --> 01:39:51.680 start with ensuring that nobody is like going broke because 2222 01:39:51.680 --> 01:39:54.199 they get sick, or nobody is unable to afford a 2223 01:39:54.239 --> 01:39:56.760 place to live. There's an economic guarantees. And then the second, 2224 01:39:56.880 --> 01:40:00.319 well there's three things I want. One is like make 2225 01:40:00.399 --> 01:40:02.239 the economy actually work for working people. And I think 2226 01:40:02.359 --> 01:40:06.079 union rights and you know, and the way our social 2227 01:40:06.159 --> 01:40:08.319 insurance programs work are two critical elements of that. There's 2228 01:40:08.319 --> 01:40:11.239 a bunch of others. The second thing is some rights 2229 01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:13.880 and freedoms that like need to be guaranteed and protected 2230 01:40:13.920 --> 01:40:16.640 by the federal government that are absolutely under assault right 2231 01:40:16.680 --> 01:40:18.880 now in a way that is has been you know, shocking. 2232 01:40:18.920 --> 01:40:22.159 They're trying to repeal the civil rights movement and you know, 2233 01:40:22.359 --> 01:40:25.439 and so much else. And it's like any group that 2234 01:40:25.560 --> 01:40:29.239 has achieved freedom and equality in this country is being 2235 01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:32.319 targeted by this administration. And a lot of this stuff 2236 01:40:32.640 --> 01:40:36.600 was nonpartisan, low stake stuff that both parties agreed in 2237 01:40:36.600 --> 01:40:41.039 at different moments that there were you know, bipartisan majorities. Well, 2238 01:40:41.119 --> 01:40:43.479 the public is still a bipartisan majority for reproductive freedom. 2239 01:40:44.199 --> 01:40:46.239 They there was a period, do you remember when Republicans 2240 01:40:46.279 --> 01:40:48.119 attack trans people in North Carolina? And it was like 2241 01:40:48.199 --> 01:40:51.159 a giant uproar. This idea that attacking trans people is 2242 01:40:51.720 --> 01:40:54.760 is this great popular weg issue for Republicans doesn't need 2243 01:40:54.840 --> 01:40:58.239 to be that way. The public is not always naturally 2244 01:40:58.319 --> 01:41:01.000 inflamed about, you know, whether gender identity should be a 2245 01:41:01.000 --> 01:41:04.479 political battlefield. I'd like to get to a world where 2246 01:41:04.479 --> 01:41:07.079 everyone's humanity is something that we can like a starting point. 2247 01:41:07.319 --> 01:41:10.520 And the third one is democracy itself, which is for 2248 01:41:10.720 --> 01:41:15.359 most of you know, there are periods when the fight 2249 01:41:15.479 --> 01:41:18.039 over this basic question of whether we'll have majority rule 2250 01:41:18.079 --> 01:41:20.920 in this country isn't really up for grabs every election. 2251 01:41:21.119 --> 01:41:23.039 And one reason why we keep telling ourselves that the 2252 01:41:23.119 --> 01:41:25.159 next election is the most important election of our lifetimes 2253 01:41:25.600 --> 01:41:29.560 is because we keep having this this question of whether 2254 01:41:29.600 --> 01:41:31.359 it will be the last free election in America ever 2255 01:41:31.479 --> 01:41:33.760 has I'd like to get a little bit away from 2256 01:41:33.800 --> 01:41:36.479 the precipice and that leaves tons of stuff that we 2257 01:41:36.520 --> 01:41:39.840 can contest. And I think a natural access that makes 2258 01:41:39.880 --> 01:41:41.840 sense is the kind of like what is you know, 2259 01:41:41.960 --> 01:41:43.640 this kind of size of government, role of government in 2260 01:41:43.680 --> 01:41:46.640 public life. There there's lots of different issues that divide 2261 01:41:46.680 --> 01:41:49.199 most Republicans from most Democrats that we can argue over, 2262 01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:53.199 and I think having competitive pressure pushes both parties to 2263 01:41:53.239 --> 01:41:55.199 try to figure out how to govern more effectively. I think, 2264 01:41:55.399 --> 01:41:58.239 like excellence in public service and government is produced more 2265 01:41:58.359 --> 01:42:00.239 when there are electoral stakes, and you might lose power 2266 01:42:00.239 --> 01:42:02.039 if you don't do a good job. All those things 2267 01:42:02.079 --> 01:42:05.720 are good, but building a political order where these kind 2268 01:42:05.720 --> 01:42:08.319 of like you don't feel as though the ground might 2269 01:42:08.760 --> 01:42:10.600 crack open beneath you and swallow. 2270 01:42:10.920 --> 01:42:12.640 Not every election is like a manichein struggle. 2271 01:42:12.680 --> 01:42:14.760 Yeah, I would like I'd like to turn down the 2272 01:42:14.760 --> 01:42:17.560 stakes a little bit, and you know that we can, 2273 01:42:17.760 --> 01:42:20.279 you can. I don't know if would be helpful for 2274 01:42:20.279 --> 01:42:22.199 the political podcasting business if fun. 2275 01:42:22.520 --> 01:42:24.039 Yeah, I'll take that. I'll take We'll take this right, 2276 01:42:24.079 --> 01:42:25.880 I'll take the right. Take it speen of high stakes. 2277 01:42:26.279 --> 01:42:29.359 I know that you're staying neutral in the primary in Wisconsin, 2278 01:42:29.600 --> 01:42:31.960 in the governor's race until the bitter end. I know 2279 01:42:32.079 --> 01:42:35.159 you're not neutral in wanting a democratic governor in that 2280 01:42:35.319 --> 01:42:38.520 state who will be responsible for, among other things, certifying 2281 01:42:38.520 --> 01:42:41.439 the presidential result in twenty twenty eight. Is that a 2282 01:42:41.560 --> 01:42:46.520 reason for primary voters in Wisconsin to think about electability 2283 01:42:47.039 --> 01:42:48.680 differently this year than they normally would. 2284 01:42:49.720 --> 01:42:52.920 I think that Wisconsin voters think about electability a lot. 2285 01:42:54.119 --> 01:42:58.159 We have over and over experienced. Yeah, what happens when 2286 01:42:58.279 --> 01:43:01.680 we lose, It's not bigod We've had the Wisconsin I 2287 01:43:01.800 --> 01:43:03.399 argue in the book, Wisconsin is like a mini version 2288 01:43:03.439 --> 01:43:05.039 of what the country is going through right now. Because 2289 01:43:05.039 --> 01:43:07.840 we had our authoritarian breakthrough came when Scott Walker won 2290 01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:10.960 in twenty ten and then tried to rig our political 2291 01:43:11.039 --> 01:43:15.399 system and defund schools and public services and smash unions, 2292 01:43:15.439 --> 01:43:17.039 all this stuff the same way Donald Trump has done 2293 01:43:17.039 --> 01:43:19.760 on a national level. Now, so we have experienced our 2294 01:43:19.800 --> 01:43:22.680 own state level, you know, authoritarian moment the same way. 2295 01:43:22.760 --> 01:43:25.159 Lots of states in the South have continued to experience it. 2296 01:43:26.439 --> 01:43:29.159 And I think there's a big debate about, you know, 2297 01:43:29.279 --> 01:43:31.279 what is electable right now, who's going to vote? How 2298 01:43:31.319 --> 01:43:35.079 do you energize people? And then this trade off of 2299 01:43:35.199 --> 01:43:37.359 like what do you get when you win? What is 2300 01:43:37.399 --> 01:43:39.399 the issue that the animate you all? That is like 2301 01:43:39.680 --> 01:43:43.279 legitimate grounds for having a debate and for people making 2302 01:43:43.279 --> 01:43:47.279 those different arguments. Wisconsin has this great tradition I write 2303 01:43:47.279 --> 01:43:49.079 about in the book is the birthplace of the progressive 2304 01:43:49.079 --> 01:43:52.279 movement Capital p progressive movement, and one of the reforms 2305 01:43:52.319 --> 01:43:54.720 of the progressive movement that started in Wisconsin' swept the 2306 01:43:54.800 --> 01:43:57.840 nation is direct primaries to choose your nominee, where the 2307 01:43:57.920 --> 01:44:00.880 people decide who the nominee will be, and the party 2308 01:44:01.159 --> 01:44:03.359 when the Democratic Party Wisconsin, which I used to chair, 2309 01:44:03.479 --> 01:44:05.760 I'm an advisor to the new chair. Different Memorkers, I 2310 01:44:05.760 --> 01:44:09.279 think doing a killer job, very hard job. One of 2311 01:44:09.319 --> 01:44:11.600 the party's core commitments in our constitution is that the 2312 01:44:11.640 --> 01:44:13.720 party itself doesn't put its thumb on the scale, even 2313 01:44:13.760 --> 01:44:16.479 if elected officials and public you know, citizens and groups 2314 01:44:16.560 --> 01:44:19.439 and unions and everybody does their different endorsements. The party 2315 01:44:19.920 --> 01:44:22.439 is neutral in the primary so that voters can decide 2316 01:44:22.479 --> 01:44:24.039 who they want their nominee to be, and then the 2317 01:44:24.119 --> 01:44:26.920 party can play a role of saying that everybody, hey, like, 2318 01:44:27.359 --> 01:44:30.520 even though that was tough and you know, messi and complicated, 2319 01:44:30.920 --> 01:44:32.880 we're going to like put that behind us. We're going 2320 01:44:32.920 --> 01:44:35.239 to unite, and we're going to do everything we can 2321 01:44:35.560 --> 01:44:38.960 to chew through concrete and win the general election. And 2322 01:44:39.079 --> 01:44:41.720 that that is my own role in this fight, and 2323 01:44:41.800 --> 01:44:43.119 that's what I invite everyone to do. 2324 01:44:43.640 --> 01:44:46.640 There's no confident that no matter who wins the primary 2325 01:44:46.960 --> 01:44:49.319 that I mean, you know all these candidates personally, do 2326 01:44:49.439 --> 01:44:52.560 you think that all of them like could could definitely 2327 01:44:52.760 --> 01:44:53.560 beat Tom Tiffany. 2328 01:44:53.840 --> 01:44:56.359 I think that there's a path with each of these candidates, 2329 01:44:56.399 --> 01:44:57.720 and I think that what that path looks like is 2330 01:44:57.760 --> 01:44:59.600 actually a little different with the different candidates, and they 2331 01:44:59.640 --> 01:45:02.279 are building the coalitions around them based on their approach 2332 01:45:02.319 --> 01:45:04.920 to campaigning and their arguments they're making and the positions 2333 01:45:04.960 --> 01:45:08.640 that they have and their own stories. And the thing 2334 01:45:08.680 --> 01:45:10.439 that would cause us to lose is if we lose 2335 01:45:10.520 --> 01:45:13.560 the nerve to say that we can win. If Democrats 2336 01:45:13.640 --> 01:45:16.520 decide the day after the primary that, oh, well, I 2337 01:45:16.520 --> 01:45:18.239 guess we're not going to win, then they will not win. 2338 01:45:18.479 --> 01:45:20.560 But if they say, you know what, this is a 2339 01:45:20.640 --> 01:45:23.279 state we're over and over thirteen times since two thousand, 2340 01:45:23.319 --> 01:45:25.199 we've had elections that come down to one percentage point 2341 01:45:25.279 --> 01:45:28.680 or less, and it like donating that extra buck, like 2342 01:45:28.800 --> 01:45:31.399 knocking on that extra door, calling that extra friend, could 2343 01:45:31.439 --> 01:45:33.640 be the thing that tips the entire state. If we 2344 01:45:33.840 --> 01:45:36.279 bring that kind of will to the race, I think 2345 01:45:36.319 --> 01:45:38.119 that any of the candidates can beat Tom Tiffany and 2346 01:45:38.399 --> 01:45:41.279 Wisconsin could be a a thriving democracy for the future. 2347 01:45:41.640 --> 01:45:47.319 Last question, what is your thought process like as you 2348 01:45:47.520 --> 01:45:51.199 consider potentially running in the state that you love in Wisconsin? 2349 01:45:52.840 --> 01:45:57.279 Well, I love the living shit out of my state. 2350 01:45:57.359 --> 01:46:00.680 I just think Wisconsin is the greatest state, and I 2351 01:46:02.279 --> 01:46:04.319 will think about, you know, what I do in the future. 2352 01:46:04.359 --> 01:46:07.560 In the future, I think my just obsession right now 2353 01:46:07.920 --> 01:46:11.079 is to make sure that Wisconsin not only wins the governorship, 2354 01:46:11.119 --> 01:46:13.840 but as I've mentioned, the state legislative chambers in November, 2355 01:46:14.159 --> 01:46:16.039 and those will come probably down to a couple hundred 2356 01:46:16.119 --> 01:46:18.199 votes in a few different communities around the state. Like 2357 01:46:18.239 --> 01:46:20.840 it is, it has been the work of years to 2358 01:46:21.000 --> 01:46:23.119 unrig our state legislative maps to get to this point 2359 01:46:23.159 --> 01:46:25.359 where we have a shot at winning majorities in both 2360 01:46:25.439 --> 01:46:28.720 legislative chambers. And next year could be a blooming of 2361 01:46:28.800 --> 01:46:33.159 democracy and workers rights and of ability of folks to 2362 01:46:33.199 --> 01:46:35.479 get healthcare, all this stuff if we can win the 2363 01:46:35.560 --> 01:46:39.319 trifecta in Wisconsin in the next ninety nine days. So 2364 01:46:39.560 --> 01:46:42.399 I'm I have this book. I want to spread the 2365 01:46:42.439 --> 01:46:44.720 gospel of like rolling up puce sleeves getting involved. I 2366 01:46:44.760 --> 01:46:47.800 want to make sure that people see the kind of 2367 01:46:47.840 --> 01:46:49.960 hope that we've experienced in my state by building this 2368 01:46:50.039 --> 01:46:51.960 kind of permanent campaign on a year round basis. I 2369 01:46:52.000 --> 01:46:54.319 want more places to do that. And then I'm going 2370 01:46:54.399 --> 01:46:56.960 to just throw myself into with everything I've got into 2371 01:46:57.000 --> 01:46:58.720 the fight in my state, and then I'll figure out 2372 01:46:58.720 --> 01:46:59.079 what's next. 2373 01:46:59.600 --> 01:47:02.000 Well, I've to this on the pod when you're not here. 2374 01:47:02.520 --> 01:47:05.880 That is a is a democrat and a citizen. I 2375 01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:08.439 wanted you to be d n C chair because I 2376 01:47:08.479 --> 01:47:09.880 think it would have been good for the party and 2377 01:47:09.920 --> 01:47:12.800 good for the country. As your friend, sort of glad 2378 01:47:12.840 --> 01:47:17.079 you're not because it's such a terrible job no matter 2379 01:47:17.159 --> 01:47:19.800 who has it. But when it comes to running for 2380 01:47:19.840 --> 01:47:22.840 offs in Wisconsin as a citizen, a Democrat and your friend, 2381 01:47:23.199 --> 01:47:24.960 I would love you. I would love to see you 2382 01:47:25.359 --> 01:47:26.359 to run one of these days. 2383 01:47:26.399 --> 01:47:28.880 So I think about it, honored by the sentiment we 2384 01:47:28.920 --> 01:47:30.279 need more Ben Wickler in America. 2385 01:47:30.399 --> 01:47:32.840 So let's let's zero in on what all of us 2386 01:47:32.880 --> 01:47:34.880 can do. Yes, right now, that is That is my message, 2387 01:47:34.960 --> 01:47:36.439 that this is the plan. 2388 01:47:36.960 --> 01:47:39.640 He's on message. That's why I love Ben Wickler. Thanks 2389 01:47:39.680 --> 01:47:40.800 so much, Thanks so much, John. 2390 01:47:47.199 --> 01:47:48.880 That's our show for today. Thanks to Ben Wicker for 2391 01:47:48.920 --> 01:47:50.359 coming on. Dan and I will be back with a 2392 01:47:50.479 --> 01:47:53.840 new episode on Friday. Positive America is a Crooked Media production. 2393 01:47:54.000 --> 01:47:56.760 Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Ruben, McKenna Roberts, 2394 01:47:56.800 --> 01:47:59.520 and Faris Safari with re Cherlin, Elijah Cone and Adrian Hill. 2395 01:47:59.640 --> 01:48:02.159 Our team includes Matt de Grote, Ben Heffcote, Jordan Cantor, 2396 01:48:02.199 --> 01:48:05.079 Charlotte Landis Krol, pel Avive, David Toles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, 2397 01:48:05.199 --> 01:48:07.399 and Naomi Single. Our staff is probably unionized with the 2398 01:48:07.399 --> 01:48:08.600 Writers Guild of America East