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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Seafood Matters. Thank you for

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joining us again. My guest today is James Sibley, all

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the way from New York. James is an online influencer

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with followers on his social media platform into the many

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hundreds of thousands. Now I have to say, James is

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just a little bit different what we've got here, and

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if you were to look at these videos on his platforms,

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you'll understand what I mean. We've got a real live

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action man to speak to. So Hi James, Welcome to

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the Seafood Matters and thanks for coming along.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on, Jim, I'm excited to be here.

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I've been a listener for some time when I have

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a lot of time on planes, so it's always good

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to have some podcasts queued up for that. And yeah,

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well I do definitely least sensationalize the adventure of it

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a bit as would come with the job. Right there

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is it is all real, right, I mean, I'm I'm

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running around on boats, planes, helicopters, whatever we need to

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to get out into the farms, underwater recording in all

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mediums there to get this stuff out there. And by farms,

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I mean aquaculture, right, So my focus in media is aquaculture,

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not explicitly, right. I do work with ranches. I am

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starting to work more with fisheries and expand that scope.

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But for over five years now I've really been focused

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in on the world of farming diseas.

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Speaker 1: Brilliant, brilliant and can you tell our listeners your background

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on how you your journey led to the media.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. So I don't think anybody intends to

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be a fishfluencer or a full time aquaculture social media person.

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That sort of just evolved over the years here, sometimes

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against my will. I studied genetics at university in Boston,

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and I kind of fell into the world of seafood.

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I did not grow up in this. I grew up

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in traditional land agriculture. I fell into seafood during COVID

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so during the pandemic, university shut down and I needed

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something to do. If you remember, that was the dead

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of winter in that hit, so the farms were under

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a foot of snow. But I knew food production, right,

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I've been doing it since I was legally allowed to work.

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I was working the farms, so I picked up a

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job as a fishmonger retail fishmonger at Whole Foods. That

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was what I did during at least the first half

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of shutdown, and I found it fascinating. I knew nothing

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about seafood going into that job, which you know, I've

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learned is actually a huge problem globally that fishmongers don't

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know what they're doing or selling, no fault of their own,

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that just is the way of the world. But I

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took of interest in the biology behind it. Right, So

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I'm selling this fish, these shellfish, these crustaceans, whatever it

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might be that was.

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Speaker 1: In front of me.

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Speaker 2: What is it? Where's it coming from? Because customers are

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asking me this stuff, you know, like where's this salmon from?

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Why are those you know? I can you shut those

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oysters for me? And I have to say no, and

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I don't know why. So I start to look into

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why all of this is the case, as many of

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us do in seafood, and it's just this fascinating rabbit hole.

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You start to discover farmed versus wild, versus ranched versus

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now cultivated. Right, we now have lab grown meats on

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the market, all of these different avenues that lead us

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to where we are. And I just you know fell

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into that. I think that's fascinating. I wanted to dive

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into the biology of it, especially farming. I have a

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farming background, so the fact that we could farm the

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seas totally new to me. I did not know that

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aquaculture existed until I was twenty twenty one. Most Americans don't.

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It's just not present at all in any part of

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our lives. So I wanted to figure out what this

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was all about. I started talking about it online, not

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for any other reason than it was lockdown. It was

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really not a lot to do. University was down. I

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needed to create it out with right. So that was

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TikTok for me, and I just had a personality on

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there very quickly that, you know, very nerdy, very professional

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in a sense, but also very personable that people really

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engaged with. They liked the way I talked about seafood

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at the counter as a fishmoker, and that very quickly

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took off on that one platform, TikTok. It took some

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time to build it into the sort of cross platform

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business that it is today, but that's where it started.

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It was at the whole food's counter.

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Speaker 1: And where was the jams that was.

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Speaker 2: In Boston, Boston, Massachusetts.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I've any seafood city as well, very much.

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Speaker 2: Historically a huge producer as well. Now it's a large

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importer and processor.

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Speaker 1: Still Yeah, it's Regal Seafood still live.

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Speaker 2: They're an icon. Yeah, they're they're holding out that there's

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a lot of Boston's changing quickly and a lot of

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the piers are being scrapped for you know, glass skyscrapers,

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but that there is still a strong presence there. Regal

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is there North Coast Seafoods. I used to work for

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Foley Fish actually, which is over a fourth generation staple

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in Boston, going back well over one hundred years, buying

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everything all over the world and you know, getting it

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out to people that need it in the Boston area.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic. And what's that a moment when you realize social

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media could become more powerful than traditional communications.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So my background wasn't communication, right, I didn't study

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this stuff. I didn't know that I had an interest

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in it. I've always been a talker, so maybe there

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were inklings. But when I started making videos online and

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getting you know, millions of viewers into what I was doing,

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it became evident to me that seafood has a serious

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problem with what consumers think of it and how the

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seafood industry communicates with itself. Because I was getting questions

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from consumers that didn't make any sense as somebody who

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was starting to learn about this stuff in more detail,

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but I was also getting questions from the industry from

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seafood not just farmers, fishers, policymakers all over the world

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bringing things to me that didn't make sense. I started

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to learn about the sort of opposition that has been

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growing around the world against certain kinds of aquaculture and

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certain kinds of fisheries. And when I look into the

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science of it, a lot of it doesn't hold. It's

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highly regional. It really depends on where you are. That

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story never reached to people that matter, right, and that

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was having real world implications. I was starting to learn.

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People would message me saying, hey, my farm shut down

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because of policies made two thousand miles away talking about

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Canada here like do you have any contacts of another

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country I can move to to continue what I do,

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And I'm like, what have I gotten myself into? What

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is this? So I had to learn, like hands on,

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I needed to get on these farms. Up until this point,

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I was talking about aquaculture and fisheries as a fishmonger,

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as a processor a bit from a distance.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I had the products in my hands, but I didn't

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see the process. So I had to get on a

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plane with all my stuff and I moved. I moved

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to Scotland actually for a year, to get hands on

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in one of the world's largest salmon farming regions. It

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also has a strong presence in things like muscles. Right,

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so I go to Sheefland to see like the UK's

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largest muscle producing region, which is you know about those

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islands up north with only a couple tens of thousands

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of people. That was where I really discovered that media

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is incredibly important to seafood. I might be biased on that,

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but my opinion on it is, you know, you can

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build it, but they won't come anymore.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: You can put out environmental reports and quarterly reports and

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sustainability reports and all of this, but it doesn't matter

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if no one's reading it, and policymakers don't make decisions

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about what you do and how you're regulated, and if

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you can even operate based on the report you put out,

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it's based on the sentiment of their constituents, so reaching

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them is just as important reaching those few in the

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industry who actually run these places.

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Speaker 1: I am fascinated with the fact that where you mentioned

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where you've been, I've done an enormous amount of business

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over the years with both Orkney and Shetland. I love

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the people. In fact, when I had a seafood restaurant

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for a while and it's just in the north, very

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far north as you can go on the mainland, there

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would be fairies to the islands and just say people

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were in the restaurant and they were going on the

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fairies to the islands, and I would say, I knew

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I was catching them out, and I would say, you

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want to know the best part Oh yeah, oh yeah,

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we want to know they were. It would pick people

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thinking I was going to tell them where to go

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to see a a rice view, and I would say, well,

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the best part are the people.

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Speaker 2: It is. So I went for Uphilla Yah. That was

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my first time in Shetland. That was something different. I'll

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never forget that.

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Speaker 1: Another thing I'm sure you'll go with when you work

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with people and your feared with them, You've got a friend,

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but a friend we are Shelterer, an Arcadian. You've got

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a friend for life.

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Speaker 2: That was one of the things I loved about in

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Northern Aisles is there's still at least three people that

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keep in contact with and I've only been to working

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in Shetland once and it was over a year ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. That's it. What first pushed you to

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start creating content online?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question, right because now it's my world.

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But for a long time it wasn't. And I actually

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fought it for some time because you know, when I'm

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sitting there racking up American University degree bills and I'm

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making tiktoks, I just I don't see how the two

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meld well. So for a long time I just did

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it as a hobby and on the side for fun

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where I could on weekends on you know, it's like that.

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But I really found that I got pushed into it

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more than I pursued it. What I mean by that

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is I very quickly learned that if I wanted to

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really dig my teeth into aquaculture and all of seafood,

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I needed to leave the US for a period of time.

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It's not here we are a major buyer that's it,

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and that's been the case for quite some time. It

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doesn't look like it's changing anytime soon. So I started

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to experiment with how I could get out of the

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country and get paid to learn about aquaculture out of university,

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like right in the field, and I would apply to

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different jobs in field positions as environmental part of environmental

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teams and fish health teams. None of that stuck. What

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they wanted me to do instead was to come film.

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So that started in Newfoundland, Canada, slowly worked its way

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over to the West coast of Canada, Hawaii and then

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eventually up into Scotland. So I had a point where

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I was trying to continuing to try and find ways

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just out of university for how I can enter the

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aquaculture world as an American who didn't study this specifically,

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I needed to flank it, if that makes sense right.

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And the opportunity presented itself to come to Scotland to

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showcase all of aquaculture there right, everything going on from

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east to west and north to its called Stirling south

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from south, but really there as a as a region

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as an aquaculture powerhouse and a potential future for this

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this space that's what I went there to do, right,

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And that was the first time I took it on

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full time. I committed to doing this as maybe not

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a full career, but at least at that point I knew, Okay,

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I'll be doing this as many hours as I kind

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of week for the next year at least.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting listening to your gyms when I'm picking

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up is because here's me talking to an influencer in

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your social media and but in your conversation you keep

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coming back to aquaculture. It's almost, you know, you would

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people may be a mudgin and I don't know you

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have maybe had this before, but people made the mudge

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and that you have, you're and social media, you're an

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influence said, and you take it to people like aquaculture

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and that. But it's almost like the opposite.

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Speaker 2: That absolutely is the opposite. Yeah, I did not. This

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was not the track that I thought i'd be on

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five years ago. Right. My interest is is aquaculture and

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you know, responsible fisheries for the future, Like what does

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that actually look like? You know, because we're all bogged

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down with all this jargon and the buzzwords. We CEO

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of sustainability and friends of the sea. Look, we got

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this nice check mark. What does that mean, you know,

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not a whole lot if we don't dig into it

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and look at what it takes. That's where my interest is.

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What's what became of that was my social media presence

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as an influencer.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't start this because I wanted to build

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a following or because I was an online personality to

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begin with. That became the the sort of outlet for it.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm learning all this stuff on the ground, and this

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is the best way for me to learn it. So

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it's cyclical, Right. I can get to further and further places,

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more remote areas by doing this, and by doing this,

250
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I then get to even better places to learn more.

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So I do it because of that, because it's learning right,

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and not just for me, but for my audience. That's

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why people follow me. Right, I'm an educator as much

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as I am an influencer. It's the way the world

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these days.

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Speaker 1: If you ask me, I know you're not asking me,

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but what I would say what I feel? Unhere in

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your James, you got to communicate it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is that's better than fishfluencer. I'll give you that.

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Speaker 1: No, but twenty year to ten for your enthusiasm, You're

261
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obviously enjoy what you do, and my goodness, does that

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not make any job easier. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: What I do wouldn't be possible if it weren't, right.

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It's I cycle between what I try to keep is

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like nine to five hours when I'm home, but when

266
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I'm on when I'm not filming, right, And this can

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be for anywhere from weeks two months, it's twenty four

268
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to seven. Right. These are eighteen hour days, seven days

269
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a week minimum. So I have to love what I do.

270
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It is expensive, it is time consuming, it bad for

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my back, and it's not always kind, if that makes sense, right.

272
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So the realm of seafood is a volatile place on

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the Internet, and it is something that is actually you know,

274
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a few times turned me off of this when I

275
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was getting started, right, I was like, all right, well,

276
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why am I going to wake up and just read

277
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all this terrible stuff only to then go about my

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day doing a different job because this is my hobby.

279
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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: For a few I've had moments where it's it's been

281
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difficult to be in the space that I am as

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somebody who wants to highlight the good and not bash

283
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the bad.

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Speaker 1: Right.

285
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Speaker 2: It's an ideal I chose many years ago and I

286
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stand by, but it brings with it a lot of

287
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criticism and scrutiny from anonymous folks who are willing to

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say whatever they want.

289
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the modern tree is of the way

290
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of progress organically, Yeah, I would.

291
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Speaker 2: I mean I haven't. I've never paid a cent to

292
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promote my stuff. It doesn't make sense to me, and

293
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I'm not trying to build a brand. I'm just as

294
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you said, I'm a communicator, so if people want to listen,

295
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then they all might stick around. That's what I try

296
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and do. I try and make videos that are engaging

297
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enough that people will stick around and learn something. That's

298
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why I've flocked to short form videos over the past

299
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better part of a decade, really is because I can

300
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pack enough information into a couple of minutes to three

301
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minutes that somebody who watches that through will walk away

302
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,079
with and be more confident in maybe intrigued by the

303
00:17:59,079 --> 00:18:02,200
seafoo they're eating or around them. Then I would be

304
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,039
able to if I was doing a much much longer video.

305
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I mean this in sense of how many people I

306
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,319
can reach I've had three hundred million viewers in the

307
00:18:10,319 --> 00:18:12,519
past five years, and that's because I do a lot

308
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on short form video. I'm expanding into longer form pieces,

309
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but it is it is time consuming to make a

310
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nationwide this is seafood and aquaculture in this region thirty

311
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minute documentary. That's a huge undertaking and it's only something

312
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I'm starting to tackle now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and would you you know you talk about places

314
00:18:34,319 --> 00:18:36,799
in New York you've been in bossed and in that

315
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do you think that would shape the way you communicate

316
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and tell your stories.

317
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Speaker 2: That's interesting because you know there's the I do speak

318
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,759
with a bit of that accent, right, you might be

319
00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:53,519
able to pick up I got like a New England

320
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,480
twanged what I say. But I also have sort of

321
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been I spend half my time on the road and

322
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,000
a half or five years largely like Scotland's been a

323
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:08,359
big piece of it, but all over Europe, Australia, New Zealand.

324
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I was down in the Falklands a couple of weeks

325
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,480
or a couple of months ago. That was a different

326
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,119
one for me all over the world. So that tends

327
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to lean into how I build content more for any

328
00:19:22,759 --> 00:19:26,480
given specific area, Like I'm writing my scripts for Australia

329
00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:28,039
right now, and I'm having a lot of fun with

330
00:19:28,079 --> 00:19:29,880
it because I kept a list of all the different

331
00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:32,799
sayings they had that I heard as I went through

332
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as it was there for a month, and I'm trying

333
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,920
to incorporate that into my talk right of you hanging

334
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,079
it and we're frothing and all. There's a slewth of them,

335
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:46,559
but I really try and lean into where I am.

336
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No doubt the whole Bostonian side of it comes through

337
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at times. It definitely was a stick I had at

338
00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:57,160
the beginning my first like three four hundred videos. I

339
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,640
feel like fifty percent of them i'd say wicked. It's

340
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,359
a pretty Bostonian thing. But I'm trying to open it

341
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,799
up more. I don't want to have an American feel

342
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:07,880
to it, if that makes.

343
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 1: Sense, Okay, yeah, yes, for no other.

344
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Speaker 2: Reason than the places I am are. I'm not really

345
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showing off the States, not for lack of trying, right.

346
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,400
I have done some successful projects here Stateside, but aquaculture

347
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,160
and fisheries in the US are fragmented and they're underfunded,

348
00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:30,799
and they're really facing an alcohol battle one that media

349
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,680
is desperately needed for, but it's also concurrently difficult to support.

350
00:20:39,279 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 1: I totally get that. I would say, the job you

351
00:20:42,519 --> 00:20:45,839
do and the message you put out the whole seafood,

352
00:20:46,759 --> 00:20:51,559
the industry and the world needs what you do. I

353
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,599
command you for it, and I you know, I've been

354
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,440
all my life and the seafood industry and various shapes

355
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,599
and forms, but my goodness, it needs up message from

356
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,519
people like yourself. So I think it's all the end

357
00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:06,960
what you do.

358
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Speaker 2: I appreciate it. I mean, it's to me, it's an experiment.

359
00:21:10,039 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 1: Right.

360
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Speaker 2: Every year I look at it and say, what am

361
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I going to do different? How far can I push

362
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,160
it this year? And I haven't found a ceiling yet.

363
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,119
Until I do. This is the best thing I can

364
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:31,400
do for seafood. You know, I can push change, maybe

365
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,880
indirectly at times and from and from Afar, but I

366
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,680
can push change in a lot of people's minds, and

367
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,160
that that's what I want to keep doing.

368
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 1: You know, that is where I can have the thing

369
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,960
that comes close to me loud and clear, and I

370
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,160
have to say, I love the thought of it. You

371
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,000
just the way. I'm not saying you would do it physically,

372
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,039
but you would just come into the room and just

373
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,279
punch in the nose and say, right, I'm here, let's go.

374
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: You should see me at the conferences. That's exactly what

375
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:07,799
I do. No, I mean, it's this is I don't know.

376
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,799
I try and figure out how I got here, but

377
00:22:12,279 --> 00:22:14,400
where I am is. I think this is like the

378
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,599
coolest stuff effort, and I think that this can save

379
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,000
our oceans and our food systems if we do it right.

380
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:21,680
And we're not in a lot of places for a

381
00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:25,839
number of reasons. So let's figure out what's working and

382
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,680
push that everywhere. You know, get this stuff, get this

383
00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:34,079
ball rolling with enthusiasm and support, because you know, just

384
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,759
fear mongering and bashing that's all we ever see nowadays.

385
00:22:37,799 --> 00:22:40,880
It doesn't work. I don't click like I might read

386
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,559
a headline. It's like, oh, you know, some terrible thing happens. Yeah,

387
00:22:43,599 --> 00:22:45,240
it happens every twenty seconds, and I see it on

388
00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:46,279
CNN all the time.

389
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Speaker 1: Right.

390
00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:49,799
Speaker 2: What I want is to stick around, like stick around

391
00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:52,599
for a little bit longer because something genuinely interested me.

392
00:22:54,319 --> 00:23:02,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'll fully get that. And yeah it's unfortunate, yes,

393
00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:07,079
more so we make a little bit on the aquaculture,

394
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:13,559
but on the wild fishing. They're hard up against environmentalists. Now.

395
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,079
One of the things that really sticks with me. I

396
00:23:17,079 --> 00:23:19,240
don't know if you even I'm sure you would have

397
00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:23,319
seen it over there. The David attonbra did a film

398
00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:30,960
and it was so much against wild catching, and the

399
00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:35,720
environmentalists were on with them. And I did a mini

400
00:23:35,759 --> 00:23:38,960
series and that my podcasts about it, and I did

401
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,880
interviews to me all sides of it, fishery scientists, fishermen,

402
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:49,160
fishing leaders, of all sides of it. And I did

403
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:57,640
some of the big NGOs, environmental NGOs, and I could

404
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,240
put my hand up and say I should have maybe

405
00:24:00,599 --> 00:24:04,519
done my homework better. That what really got me I

406
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:10,039
discovered afterwards James told me downright lies and I didn't

407
00:24:10,079 --> 00:24:10,799
appreciate that.

408
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe you're referencing that was that bottom trolling

409
00:24:13,799 --> 00:24:17,359
video that came out from the Attinburg. Very bright. Yeah,

410
00:24:17,519 --> 00:24:19,640
I saw that for months.

411
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,799
Speaker 1: And to this day I still feel like contacting them

412
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:28,200
and saying, look, I invite you back talk about that

413
00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:31,680
again and explain why what you said and why you

414
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,240
said it, and it's not true and it would maybe

415
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,720
sound to people, oh this is terrible. W fishermen are

416
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,279
getting my way away. And that's why I feel, you know,

417
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,680
the message you're getting across is real. It's real, and

418
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,079
you're showing people that when you're on site and places

419
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,359
like that, and whether I just thought a lot of

420
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,200
people see polished content online but they never see the

421
00:24:59,319 --> 00:25:04,680
difficult behaved it so tough. Was the early stages of

422
00:25:04,759 --> 00:25:05,400
that for you.

423
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And when I first started making videos, they were

424
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,720
very simple, rudimentary, you know, the kind of stuff you

425
00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:17,759
might be used to from like early day, short form

426
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:21,160
video on your phone. I would record it on my

427
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,720
phone while I was on the clock as a vishmonger, right,

428
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,599
maybe do a quick edit on my phone, voicing it

429
00:25:28,599 --> 00:25:31,519
over in the car, and then throw it up online.

430
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,480
And that was it. They were you know, I wasn't

431
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:37,920
double checking things. Sometimes I was wrong about what I

432
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,640
was saying. You could hear trucks like backing up in

433
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,079
the background. The audio is terrible. That was just what

434
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,839
I That's all I could do when I started, and

435
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,839
that actually worked pretty well. Because I had this it

436
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,319
was super human.

437
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: You know.

438
00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: People followed me because it was me, not because I

439
00:25:54,759 --> 00:25:57,440
was making good videos, but because what I was saying

440
00:25:57,759 --> 00:26:05,000
resonated with them was challenging was upgrading that to what

441
00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:09,319
I do now. I no longer just film with a phone.

442
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,920
It's no longer just me involved in what I do.

443
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,480
I have a whole team around me, and we're we're

444
00:26:16,519 --> 00:26:22,680
producing longer and longer content that requires exponentially more work.

445
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:24,599
And I don't know how to do. I didn't know

446
00:26:24,599 --> 00:26:25,920
how to do any of that, right. I was not

447
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,680
taught this stuff in school. I didn't Again, I didn't

448
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,640
study graphic design, video editing, filmmaking, none of it. Right,

449
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,920
So I've just been learning as I go trial and enter. Right,

450
00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:39,279
I come back from my shoots and I'm like, Wow,

451
00:26:40,079 --> 00:26:43,240
my audio on my oxcred disconnected and I lost all

452
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,319
the audio. So now I need to go buy an

453
00:26:45,319 --> 00:26:48,920
oxcord that locks into my camera. Things like that they

454
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:51,640
just pick up on the job. That's definitely been the

455
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,480
most difficult job. Is the most difficult part of my

456
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,759
role there is bringing it up to a new level

457
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,720
that I needed to be at to achieve what I'm

458
00:27:02,759 --> 00:27:04,759
trying to do. By the end of this year. I

459
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:07,440
have a very ambitious plan for twenty twenty six that

460
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:13,759
I'm starting to realize, and it is requiring significant investments,

461
00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:18,200
not just you know, with money and resources, but with time,

462
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,319
you know, to learn this stuff. I need to buying

463
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,599
film cameras, in with cameras, and I have to figure

464
00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:29,039
out how those work. Having grown up on point and shoots,

465
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,359
it has been a long, uphill battle to get that

466
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,039
to work. But I love it, right. That's the thing

467
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,680
is every piece of this I find interesting. I love

468
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,359
the tech behind it behind you know, making content and

469
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,440
videos and what actually goes into if I want people

470
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,119
like I start to analyze it. Right, So I'm like, okay,

471
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,359
last video, people stuck around on average for thirty two seconds,

472
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,359
but one in three skips, so they actually stuck around

473
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,160
for about a minute twenty minute thirty So where can

474
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,680
I see where they're engaging with that? Okay, everyone seems

475
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,880
to like the video around thirty percent of the way

476
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,319
into it, So how can I build that video second

477
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,599
by second to fit when people are most engaged, so

478
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,039
that they walk away with the one sentence, the five

479
00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:20,240
word phrase, the single word that I need them to do.

480
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,039
That's where I'm really kind of putting a lot of

481
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:26,839
effort right now, is really analyzing this stuff to see. Okay,

482
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,920
you know, it's great to get a million views on

483
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,039
a video and have that be watched for tens of

484
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:36,720
thousands of hours. But I want people to walk away

485
00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:40,599
having remembered something that they'll pick up in six months,

486
00:28:40,599 --> 00:28:42,440
a year, two years down the road. They'll see a

487
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,599
fish on a market or on the menually. Oh of course, yeah,

488
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,519
I remember this bit about that, see Scottish salmon on

489
00:28:49,559 --> 00:28:52,279
the menu, and remember that they saw a few videos

490
00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:55,920
on my channels from that a while ago. That's really

491
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,519
where I'm trying to hone what I do.

492
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: One of the things that comes across bitter for you,

493
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,400
and because the kind of person you are and you

494
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,920
appreciate obviously you're a people's person as well from the

495
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,160
vibes I get. But whereas some people may be going

496
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,440
to along to an office and meet a man and

497
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,359
a wait court, you're you're going out on sites and

498
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,839
meeting the guys that are harms on and you know

499
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,799
the people doing the work. And that's must you an

500
00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:38,039
insight and the subject before you do anything with videos

501
00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:38,720
or anything.

502
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:42,079
Speaker 2: That's one of the core foundations of what I do,

503
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,440
Jim is I, with some very few exceptions, I need

504
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,519
to be on site. I need to film what I'm

505
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:50,880
going to talk about. I need to learn from the

506
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,480
farmers right, not just for four hours. I want to

507
00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:56,440
be there for weeks. I want to go to the

508
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,000
pubs with them. I want to get it at five

509
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,839
in the morning and grown with them. On the two hours.

510
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,960
I want to be out in the storms, in the rain.

511
00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:06,119
I want to understand what they're doing, how they get

512
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,920
the history of it, who these people are. I want

513
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,319
to hear their life struggles and stories because I'm talking

514
00:30:13,359 --> 00:30:18,200
about their livelihoods, right, I'm portraying that world, and I

515
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,359
don't take that lightly. I want to do it as

516
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,720
I learn how it is right. I want to do

517
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:29,200
these farmers justice and really learn the complexity and nuance

518
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,599
of what it is they're doing. Because no matter what,

519
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,279
as a communicator in the modern world, I need to

520
00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:42,319
make cuts. I can't use all of the footage I film.

521
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,359
I actually only use about one and a half to

522
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,960
one percent, So no matter what's information is being cut out,

523
00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:51,680
it's being slimmed down. And I need to make those

524
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,319
cuts right. And I've learned that the only way that

525
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:58,319
I can do that confidently is if I've really spent

526
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,359
a lot of time out on site right with the

527
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,440
fish with the shrimp, with the seaweed. It's been all

528
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,640
sorts of things. But it doesn't matter really the context

529
00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:11,200
of the seafood. It matters more who I'm with and

530
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,279
how long I'm there with them?

531
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the stage. You ever dooted yourself or wondered

532
00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:19,000
where you were going.

533
00:31:20,359 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: Every day? It's I mean, social media influencer for seafood

534
00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:32,000
and aquaculture is not really a drop down on a

535
00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:36,920
LinkedIn career page. I'm going at this alone. At least,

536
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:39,640
I'm the one taking on the risk for my future

537
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,160
with this. My costs are not zero, right, a lot

538
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,839
of people might think, or at least I means. It

539
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,039
used to be close to zero with film with my phone,

540
00:31:48,079 --> 00:31:50,680
but nowadays it's this is a real business I'm running,

541
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,759
and it needs significant revenue year on year, and it

542
00:31:55,799 --> 00:31:59,880
is not stable. This is incredibly volatile work. I can

543
00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:03,680
go ninety one hundred and twenty days doing nothing but

544
00:32:03,759 --> 00:32:07,279
spending money, and real money because I'm often on flights

545
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:09,880
to the other end of the world. Right, I've flown

546
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,200
over sixty thousand miles this year alone. It's only been

547
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,279
six months. It racks up quick, right, So I often

548
00:32:17,359 --> 00:32:21,119
question what I do because it is very volatile and

549
00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:26,279
month to month at times like that. However, I wouldn't

550
00:32:26,359 --> 00:32:29,480
change it for the world. If this all collapses in

551
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:35,440
the next six twelve months, if it collapses tomorrow, that's life, right.

552
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,640
I learned so much so far being hands on with

553
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,640
these farmers and fishermen all over the world. There was

554
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,079
no better way for me to do this where I

555
00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:48,519
am in my life, right, I would not have had

556
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:52,400
the opportunities I had so far if I were not

557
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,559
a seafood influencer, it wouldn't have happened, right, So I

558
00:32:57,559 --> 00:33:00,359
wouldn't change any of it. And you know, I want

559
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,839
to keep this going as long as I can. But

560
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,400
at the end of the day, the experience alone has

561
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:10,720
just been it really has changed my life. Right. This

562
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:12,200
is not something I thought I would ever do.

563
00:33:13,359 --> 00:33:17,559
Speaker 1: That's good that you've realized and taking a business like

564
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,079
approach to it, because you've got to if it's running

565
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:25,079
a business, you've got to run a business, not just

566
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:26,119
think it's a hobby.

567
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: Important balance I need to walk is the second money

568
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,920
is involved, then farmers and governments and everybody they start

569
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,720
to nitpick what you're doing right, And the important part

570
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,759
about what I do is that is authentic and that

571
00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:46,079
it is my perspective. So in monetizing what I do,

572
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,200
I had this upfiel about a bit of a struggle

573
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,960
where how do I do that right? How do I

574
00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:59,119
keep my own personal brand in full transparency, authenticity and

575
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,440
get paid to do that? Right? That's talking about I

576
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,839
need to be a journalist right. What I've learned is

577
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,719
I don't. What I end up doing nowadays is my

578
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,760
ultimate goal, right, is to showcase what's working, where I

579
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,400
think the future is going right, where there is excitement

580
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:22,719
in seafood and aquaculture, not fear. That's what I chase

581
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,519
and part of when I work with companies or farmers, fishermen,

582
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:35,599
it's oftentimes governments, regional or federal that when I work

583
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:40,039
with them, a condition always is I can walk away

584
00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:42,599
at any time. I'm under no obligation to make anything

585
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,199
and everything like I will work with you to make

586
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,280
sure my faction figures are right. But this is my voice,

587
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,519
in my narrative, and at the end of the day,

588
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:55,599
it's my say on what I say. That has proved

589
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:58,880
to be a very effective screening model. It was not

590
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,480
the intent, but what what comes of that is only

591
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,360
the best and the brightest in seafood and aquaculture are

592
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,400
willing to sign on to things like that, right if

593
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,880
they don't have things to hide. That's that's how we've

594
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,360
been operating for a few years. It's it's actually it's

595
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,320
been a great way to find those regions of the world,

596
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,719
those companies, those people that are doing things exceptionally.

597
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was at a point where you sort of

598
00:35:28,559 --> 00:35:31,760
realized that it came to you. It's become me bigger.

599
00:35:32,199 --> 00:35:34,360
Just I say that interests or anything like that.

600
00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:39,159
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty four, I was actually a salmon trader.

601
00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:43,360
I sold salmon on the spot market for MOE. That

602
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,920
was my first job at a university. And I had

603
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,119
on my wall a bunch of sticky notes with all

604
00:35:51,159 --> 00:35:54,599
of my paid time off, my six days vacation leave,

605
00:35:54,679 --> 00:36:00,280
federal holidays, the works. And what I ended up doing was, Yeah,

606
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,360
I had this nine to five and I was working.

607
00:36:03,559 --> 00:36:06,840
I wasn't, you know, breaking record sales and selling salmon,

608
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,960
but I was getting the job done. I found myself

609
00:36:11,199 --> 00:36:14,079
playing around with every single day of free time I

610
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:18,039
had weekends, everything, to see how I could be like, Okay,

611
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,920
I have an opportunity to go to Hawaii for five

612
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,960
days to film on this fish farm, this seahorse hatchery

613
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,880
and this micro LG growout center. How can I make

614
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,800
that happen, you know, moving pto in six days around. Oh,

615
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,280
here's one in Saudi Arabia, here's one in Canada, Mexico.

616
00:36:36,559 --> 00:36:38,679
These were all happening. Well, I had a full time job.

617
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:43,000
And what happened was it became evident to everyone I

618
00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:46,519
was working with, myself included that you know, I was

619
00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:49,119
just doing what needed to be done for work and

620
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:51,440
then immediately getting on a plane going somewhere and filming,

621
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:54,679
and it was something had to give. And what was

622
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,480
great was always said, Okay, like we see you doing

623
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,800
all this stuff. You know this is actually pretty cool.

624
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,280
So come to Scotland where we actually have farms to

625
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,679
farms new us. Come to Scotland and just do this

626
00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:10,840
stuff full time. So they actually gave me the opportunity

627
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,159
to do that, and not just with them either, right,

628
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,840
this was with the entire Scottish ecosystem. I don't think

629
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,239
I would have been thought that I could do it

630
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:22,239
full time on my own had I not had that

631
00:37:23,159 --> 00:37:28,239
bit in Scotland that was supported by MOE and salmon

632
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,039
Scotland right, the trader organization of the country. That's what

633
00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:34,119
gave me the confidence to do it on my own. Right.

634
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:37,679
That was a great starting point. But where it I

635
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,280
won't say that it fell short, But what I will

636
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,559
say is where I hit a wall was I wanted

637
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:46,719
to start doing this in different countries and different species

638
00:37:47,519 --> 00:37:50,719
with a bigger like an actual crew, not just myself.

639
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,920
You know that. That was the second stage. Okay, this

640
00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:57,760
works independently, How can I push it so that I

641
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,840
can have a team because I need one?

642
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:00,519
Speaker 1: Right?

643
00:38:00,519 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 2: What I do nowadays does not work on my own.

644
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:07,079
It's it would just it's just too much workload. So

645
00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:09,239
that was something I set up after I came back

646
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,360
from Scotland. I had proof of concept. I could put

647
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,519
it all on an Excel shoot and say, okay, I've

648
00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:17,880
got you know this, this runway here to bring on

649
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,639
these people, give it a shot, see how it might work.

650
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,719
It didn't always work right my shoot in New Zealand,

651
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,400
for instance, I ended up bringing my dad, who's a

652
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:36,239
great videographer and worked for free because I couldn't finance it.

653
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: But it.

654
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 2: Was not an easy or stable path up to where

655
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,920
it is now. But you know, it really was Scotland

656
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,039
as a proof of concept and ever since then, I've

657
00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:49,239
I've just been pushing it a bit by bit.

658
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's busted it. How hard does it know? To

659
00:38:54,159 --> 00:38:59,400
stand out on lane when everybody's chasing views, likes and attention.

660
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: That's incredibly difficult. It's I mean, I don't know the formula.

661
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:13,599
Nobody does. What I do is I inadvertently selected a

662
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:18,039
niche that virtually no one else is in. Now, that

663
00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:21,519
is not easy. It's pretty easy to you know, come

664
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:23,000
up with a list of things that you don't see

665
00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:25,920
much of online. In my case, that's what's working in

666
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,360
seafood right. It is much more difficult to get a

667
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,000
significant audience to stick around for that, and then you

668
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:35,199
also learn all of the reasons that people aren't doing

669
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:41,000
that right. In my case, I have a aquaculture specifically

670
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,559
is one of the most difficult sort of industries in

671
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:50,599
the world to make stable content, and it is expensive

672
00:39:50,639 --> 00:39:54,000
to reach. It is intentionally in remote areas of the

673
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,000
world that are often in pretty poor weather. Farmers do

674
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:01,400
not make a lot of Like, yes, I understand that,

675
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,280
you know, the big giant companies in the world make

676
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,239
a lot of money altogether, but individual farms and regions

677
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,480
are not like profitable giants like Amazon are, So you know,

678
00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:14,320
the marketing budgets are very very limited, and getting to

679
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,360
these places is quite expensive. I don't just mean, you know,

680
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,800
physically getting myself there, but getting permissions. Working on farms

681
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,280
with livestock is far more difficult than sitting at home

682
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,760
getting sensed products to review, and then the equipment's cost. Right,

683
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:35,480
aquaculture is underwater, so I need an underwater camera and

684
00:40:35,519 --> 00:40:38,000
I need a new one as they come out and

685
00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:42,480
as they degrade through time, my drones get beat up

686
00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:46,599
pretty quickly, my aerial drones. The ocean is not kind

687
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,679
to that on drone number four at the moment, So

688
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,800
it gets expensive in that way. Right, So choosing a

689
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:01,920
niche that people don't tend to make videos in is

690
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,840
smart because there is not a lot of competition. But

691
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,519
there's a reason people aren't doing it. So my recommendation

692
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:13,079
to those you know, if you're interested in doing it right,

693
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:17,159
is you know, figure out why people aren't doing it,

694
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,360
and if those are hurdles you are willing to overcome. Right,

695
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,400
For me, it's a mix of I sacrifice a lot

696
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,079
for my personal life for this. I'm on the road

697
00:41:26,119 --> 00:41:26,719
half the time.

698
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:27,079
Speaker 1: Right.

699
00:41:28,679 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 2: If I didn't live with my partner, I couldn't even

700
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:35,039
own a plant. Right, That is the level of responsibility

701
00:41:35,039 --> 00:41:38,039
I can have at the moment. It's a plant, actually three,

702
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,280
it's pretty cool, but you know it has to fit

703
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,599
my lifestyle in how I want to sort of move

704
00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:48,639
over that for the next few years. My point was

705
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,760
that it is difficult to stand out online. It really is.

706
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,199
You need to be consistent. You need to be perseverant. Right,

707
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,239
You need to do this for years, and you can't expect,

708
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:01,960
you know, your fame overnight on this stuff. I've been

709
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,760
doing it for five years and I haven't found either.

710
00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:08,800
It has to be because you love it. You don't

711
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,480
have to love video editing. I don't really. You don't

712
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,519
have to love every aspect of it, but you need

713
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:16,360
to love what you're talking about. You need to be

714
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,519
doing it for an intrinsic reason. That isn't I want

715
00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:22,159
to build a brand. I want followers, I want likes

716
00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:24,480
because you're not always going to get it and.

717
00:42:24,599 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 1: Have all goodithms change creativity for the worst, do you feel?

718
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,639
Speaker 2: For the worst remains to be seen? But they have

719
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,719
categorically changed how all content creation is done, especially with

720
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,679
the introduction of feeds for you pages and the list

721
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,599
scrolling opportunities. When we moved on from here are the

722
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:49,719
videos and photos that the people you follow posted to,

723
00:42:50,519 --> 00:42:53,920
Here's what the algorithm thinks is most likely to keep

724
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:59,760
you around. Yeah, that changed everything, right. Who my followers

725
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,800
are and how many of them have matters less and

726
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:06,000
less every day because the algorithm, while it starts with

727
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:09,440
your followers, so it's good to have a community, will

728
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:11,760
very quickly just push it out to the world. It's

729
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,000
how we see all the time. You know, somebody who's

730
00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:17,639
never made a video puts out something funny and it

731
00:43:17,639 --> 00:43:21,360
gets one hundred million views. They feed on virality like that.

732
00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:27,639
So it can be dangerous in the sense that, especially

733
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,159
in the seafood world, misinformation spreads very fast. Right, it's

734
00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:34,599
shock and awe, it's headlines, it's share this with all

735
00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:36,639
your friends. You got sushi woods last week, because now

736
00:43:36,639 --> 00:43:38,960
it's going to kill you. That is not as good

737
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,280
as a story about this new Omega three rich diet

738
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,679
that they're trialing using algae oils. That doesn't go viral.

739
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:49,679
What I try to do is maybe find a little

740
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,599
bit of a balance. I don't need to reach the world.

741
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,559
I don't want to. I want to reach a very

742
00:43:55,239 --> 00:44:00,159
specific set of people who have interest in seafood in

743
00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:03,119
in the regions I'm operating and in the regions where

744
00:44:03,159 --> 00:44:05,320
that's being sold, right, I want to hit all the

745
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,199
stakeholders like that. So I try to find a middle

746
00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:09,760
of ground of I need to be funny, I need

747
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,960
to be quick. My edits need to be strong. I

748
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,800
need to keep people around right every few seconds with

749
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,039
a little more dopamine, but all the while having that

750
00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:20,559
story rolling behind.

751
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: Going back to what I was saying, that lit bit

752
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,440
the environmentalists, I've seen the use here or no. When

753
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,760
the environmentalists do that, a lie is halfway around the

754
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,320
world before the tooth gets his boots on. Yep.

755
00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 2: That it frustrates me, in especially in aquaculture, because things

756
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,480
will take off right and you have, as a farmer,

757
00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:52,400
I don't know, six twelve hours to make a dent

758
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,400
in that the second that it needs approval chains and

759
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,400
it has to you know, like, oh, let's write a

760
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:03,000
four page letter about this, you know, condemning the falsehoods

761
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,480
and explaining the reality you've lost them because nobody cares

762
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,239
a week later, but the damage is done.

763
00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 1: Right.

764
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,199
Speaker 2: It's a lot of times I have a feeling that

765
00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:15,639
we need to fight fire with fire. Sometimes. I don't

766
00:45:15,679 --> 00:45:18,760
mean just make stuff up, I mean be quick. Right,

767
00:45:19,199 --> 00:45:22,360
if you have a mass mortality event, get out there

768
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,760
and tell people why it happened, right, be the ones

769
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,800
to break that story. Don't let it come out in

770
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:33,960
like those required monthly reports for Then those with vested

771
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,320
interests elsewhere can just run with it.

772
00:45:36,639 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: Do you feel content creator's no spend too much time

773
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,840
trying to please platforms instead of audiences.

774
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially especially when that's their main source of income. Right.

775
00:45:51,559 --> 00:45:55,000
There's no such thing as free media, not anymore. Money's

776
00:45:55,039 --> 00:45:59,360
coming in somewhere. So if it's not evidence that if

777
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,960
a video is sponsored or that it is in partnership

778
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,920
with somebody, than it is you, the viewer, who are

779
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,280
paying that content creator. And they do that like that.

780
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,519
That strategy is a popular one, probably the most popular.

781
00:46:12,159 --> 00:46:15,400
Getting paid for views. Right, if you get ten million

782
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,960
views on a ten minute YouTube video, you can make

783
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,039
a lot of money. That's five figures. So content creators

784
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:26,960
do everything they can to get as much viewership on

785
00:46:28,199 --> 00:46:31,039
longer content like that or even shorter content. If we're

786
00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:35,400
talking hundreds of millions of views, that can all amount

787
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,559
to real money, and they will do everything they can

788
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,760
to hit those marks. Right, They're running a business, they

789
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,119
all are, even if it's just side business. For some

790
00:46:46,199 --> 00:46:49,960
of us, it's our entire livelihood, Right, I need to

791
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,159
pay rent, I need to pay cost of living, I

792
00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:55,079
need to hopefully say, for retirement, all of that on

793
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:00,559
the back of TikTok, Instagram, YouTube LinkedIn. It's a different

794
00:47:00,599 --> 00:47:05,800
world like that. The problem with chasing the algorithms becomes

795
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:09,559
we get people who you know that they figure out

796
00:47:09,559 --> 00:47:11,519
how to gain it in a sense, So there are

797
00:47:11,559 --> 00:47:14,840
YouTubers out there making tens of millions of dollars a

798
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,880
month on really not providing all that much to the

799
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:24,280
world in my opinion, you know, just just really getting

800
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:30,199
after people's attention spans and clicking on you know, colorful headlines.

801
00:47:31,119 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's authenticity still rewarded on lay. The otis controversy,

802
00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:39,400
know the fuss is to growth.

803
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, controversy is definitely a great way to get a

804
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:50,199
lot of views really quickly. Does that mean anything, I'd

805
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,519
argue less and less right, especially in this this AI

806
00:47:54,599 --> 00:47:57,920
where we live in. People know that I those who

807
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,239
follow me and have for some time, know that I

808
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,559
am a creator who speaks how I feel. I'm truthful

809
00:48:04,559 --> 00:48:07,000
about what I'm saying, and I'm a real human being.

810
00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:11,159
I'm putting real human hours into everything I do. They

811
00:48:11,199 --> 00:48:12,159
reward me for that.

812
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: Right.

813
00:48:13,559 --> 00:48:17,199
Speaker 2: People appreciate that nowadays more and more is this is

814
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,079
a real person talking about a real interest they have.

815
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,800
You know, not everyone sees me that way, but the

816
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,320
majority do. And that's why they follow me. Right, they

817
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:31,400
follow me. They're not following information about aquaculture sporadically around

818
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,280
the world. I take the narrative where I want it,

819
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,880
and that authenticity I think is really important for me.

820
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,440
I would definitely I would say that it is for

821
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,719
many creators who put their face behind what they do.

822
00:48:46,519 --> 00:48:49,239
You need to be proud of what you're doing. Is

823
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,480
it the most effective way to get a ton of

824
00:48:51,519 --> 00:48:55,519
views immediately maybe make quick money? No, I would say

825
00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:58,039
not right. I could have an AI bought and write

826
00:48:58,119 --> 00:49:01,599
up one hundred horrible eats in five minutes and put

827
00:49:01,599 --> 00:49:04,119
them all out automatically and probably make a lot of

828
00:49:04,119 --> 00:49:10,079
money until I get caught that that doesn't interest me,

829
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,360
So we are seeing a bit of a split between

830
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,920
what I would call real creators and those content farms,

831
00:49:19,199 --> 00:49:21,599
you know, farming algorithms, farming money.

832
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:27,199
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you ever felt pleasure to become more extreme,

833
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,400
more outspoken, simply to stay visible at times?

834
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,599
Speaker 2: Early on, yes, I did. I definitely did. That was

835
00:49:34,639 --> 00:49:37,559
when I it was you know, I had n't built

836
00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:40,559
a business model around you know, I have built what

837
00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:44,440
I do not to rely on the income I get

838
00:49:44,599 --> 00:49:48,559
from platforms, right, I don't. My My make or break

839
00:49:48,639 --> 00:49:50,679
is not whether or not a video gets a million views.

840
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:53,559
That's that's not how I built what I do, and

841
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:56,719
that is why I don't feel that pressure much anymore.

842
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:02,159
But early on, yes, absolutely, it's it pulls a bit

843
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,079
at all times. You know, I can't just ramble on

844
00:50:05,199 --> 00:50:07,360
about whatever I want for thirty minutes. I need to

845
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,920
build a structured story. And I still do that absolutely.

846
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,880
I'm doing it more and more nowadays, really honing in

847
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:16,320
how I want that story to flow. I don't picture

848
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,239
that is like playing into an algorithm, because I'm not

849
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:23,440
doing it specifically for that. It's more of like how

850
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,800
can I how can I write a novel? How can

851
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,719
I make a back of the book? Be like a

852
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,159
fascinating story. That's what I'm trying to do nowadays.

853
00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: It's quite fuscinating. It must be pretty tight. I mean

854
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,599
as well keep me thinking it all number night, doing

855
00:50:41,639 --> 00:50:42,519
that everything.

856
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 2: It can be. Yeah, but it's it's also a privilege.

857
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,039
This is this is a coveted job nowadays, right, being

858
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:55,679
an influencer, a content career. So it is worth the time,

859
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:02,119
investment and the scattered chaos that comes with it. I

860
00:51:02,159 --> 00:51:04,199
say scattered, but it is, it's pretty regular.

861
00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:09,599
Speaker 1: I like the comment you made their gyms. Time is

862
00:51:09,639 --> 00:51:15,840
an investment, definitely, absolutely it is. You have to running businesses.

863
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,559
We've got to know that and gotten other days when

864
00:51:19,559 --> 00:51:22,679
you think you're right, it's your business. You're the man.

865
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,840
So okay, it's not costing too much because I'm doing

866
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,280
it myself, so it's not costing me cost in anything,

867
00:51:31,599 --> 00:51:35,199
you're the most expensive to that business. You have to

868
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:35,920
think that way.

869
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's and that's not going to change

870
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:41,079
anytime soon.

871
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:42,559
Speaker 1: You know.

872
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 2: It's I struggle with whether or not I see myself

873
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,440
as a business or you know, a communicator or a

874
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:52,000
voice in the space. But I'm starting to come around

875
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,679
to the fact that I can probably be all of

876
00:51:53,679 --> 00:51:58,599
that at once without it being too conflicting. Right. It's

877
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:05,599
oftentimes I get stuck in this dichotomy of you're either

878
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,440
with the seafood industry or you're against it, just because

879
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,880
that's our bubble, that's what we see. And I have

880
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,920
to remind myself frequently that we are on two ends

881
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,519
of a bell curve. The vast majority of people are

882
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,239
apathetic to this or just don't know anything about seafood.

883
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,079
Why would they if they live in an inland states.

884
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,880
Many people have never even been to the coasts, let

885
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,679
alone know what's going on out in the water, or

886
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,360
they can't see it, right. I like to remind myself

887
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:40,800
that at the end of the day, what I'm trying

888
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,840
to do is bring more people from this zone of

889
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,639
I don't know and why should I even know?

890
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 1: Too?

891
00:52:48,519 --> 00:52:52,559
Speaker 2: This is interesting, right, and we can support this in

892
00:52:52,679 --> 00:52:55,039
the right ways. You know, there is a future in

893
00:52:55,079 --> 00:53:00,920
this everyone innately in my I say this total type

894
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,320
of earlier. But you know, we often see the benefits

895
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:09,599
of agriculture, especially in the States. We're very prideful of

896
00:53:09,639 --> 00:53:12,840
our our our ranches or cattle ranches. All of our

897
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,840
produce are our wheat and grain. They're huge, huge industries,

898
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,760
they're huge farms, and they have an impact on the environment, absolutely,

899
00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:27,559
But often that trade off is understood just innately, like

900
00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:30,360
we get you don't go after farmers. Yeah, you can

901
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,199
go after their practice sometimes, but at the end of

902
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,719
the day, we need them right and that I don't

903
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,079
feel like that feeling has made its way into seafood.

904
00:53:38,159 --> 00:53:40,639
Yet I see so many, so many calls to just

905
00:53:40,679 --> 00:53:43,800
say stop eating fish, you know, just don't don't touch

906
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:48,239
the ocean, and that is just not the reality that

907
00:53:49,559 --> 00:53:51,559
a lot of the world lives in. Nor is it

908
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:52,800
the future we should go after.

909
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: Social media can look glamorous, I suppose from the outside,

910
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,280
but how mentally draining is it really.

911
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 2: I'll give you one example I had so in twenty

912
00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:10,480
twenty five, I had seventeen thousand comments. I feel obligated

913
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,840
to read as many as I can, because it is

914
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,159
implied that if I leave a comment there, that if

915
00:54:16,159 --> 00:54:20,360
a comment is on my video, right that I it's

916
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,960
there for a reason. You know, somebody said this to

917
00:54:23,039 --> 00:54:25,559
me and I accepted that that was said and left

918
00:54:25,559 --> 00:54:28,840
it there. That is a really difficult part of what

919
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,440
I do, because when a video goes viral. It's not

920
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,639
always in the right ways. Right. I've had videos go

921
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,280
to like thirty million views for great reasons, right, and

922
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:42,840
a lot of the comments there are great or just

923
00:54:43,039 --> 00:54:46,719
neutral people tagging their friends whatever. I have had other

924
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,800
videos get tens of millions of views in the wrong way,

925
00:54:50,119 --> 00:54:54,280
not my intention. In Scotland, I made a video about

926
00:54:56,239 --> 00:55:02,400
new autonomous or not semi autonomous robots helping to vaccinate

927
00:55:02,679 --> 00:55:07,119
smaltz faster salmon smelts right eighteen thousand an hour, really

928
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,840
impressive stuff with far more precision than people can do

929
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,440
by hand. That ended up on the wrong side of

930
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,559
Twitter with the with a crowd that is not a

931
00:55:17,599 --> 00:55:21,280
fan of vaccination of any kind. And there's nothing I

932
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,639
can do about that, right. I can control the comments

933
00:55:24,639 --> 00:55:27,440
in my section, right, Like when I put a video

934
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,119
out there, do I lete a lot of comments? Know

935
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:36,280
only when it's like vulgar or just it if it

936
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:42,800
doesn't contribute anything and it's just screaming, that provides nothing, Right.

937
00:55:43,159 --> 00:55:45,760
But when my stuff gets taken and I wake up

938
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,440
and it's on like some like fringe news outlets from

939
00:55:50,559 --> 00:55:54,679
the South about how all of our fish are being

940
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,159
you know, micro chift, I don't know what to do

941
00:55:57,199 --> 00:55:59,719
about that. There's nothing I can do about that. The

942
00:56:00,039 --> 00:56:02,519
old in the video, it's out of my control. So

943
00:56:03,599 --> 00:56:05,800
that kind of stuff is challenging, right, I'm always thinking

944
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,599
about that of like where could this go wrong? Because

945
00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:10,480
that was a wake up call to me, right of

946
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:15,320
you know, just all the good influence I can have,

947
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:20,280
I can have this very quickly have the exact opposite.

948
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,960
So it is it can be challenging to make sure

949
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,360
that I'm doing my best to prevent that from happening.

950
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,679
That's a very straining. Part of it is like not

951
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,280
working with those who follow me, the community around me,

952
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:39,760
but understanding that there's always going to be people that

953
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,920
are going to come after me for this stuff. It

954
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,599
doesn't matter what I'm talking about. Right in the world

955
00:56:44,679 --> 00:56:48,840
of seafood, there is always a vocal group there that

956
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,639
can be a little uninged at times. In college, I

957
00:56:53,679 --> 00:56:56,760
had somebody show up at my apartment after a video

958
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:03,119
I made on while to capture patagony toothfish. That was scary.

959
00:57:04,199 --> 00:57:06,960
I've had I've seen everything written under the sun, but

960
00:57:07,599 --> 00:57:09,280
you know, people have like hacked into my email and

961
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:15,639
stuff into my Facebook and things that just happened when

962
00:57:15,639 --> 00:57:21,239
people get really invested in taking someone down. Yeah, that's

963
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,320
probably a very The most straining part of it is,

964
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,039
you know, dealing with detraction and not healthy distractors. Right,

965
00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:33,519
this is I'm totally open criticism. This is the kind

966
00:57:33,519 --> 00:57:34,519
of stuff that's.

967
00:57:35,039 --> 00:57:40,199
Speaker 1: Out of control, that's ouda hand, and it must be

968
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:45,679
incredibly difficult to deal with it. But like negativity, and

969
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:49,039
that's kind of criticism.

970
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 2: It can be. Yeah, especially when I'm not on when

971
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,559
I'm away from the fishers and farmers for a while.

972
00:57:57,920 --> 00:57:59,559
Right when I start to when it's been three or

973
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:02,760
four months and i haven't been out on these sites,

974
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:04,920
and all I'm seeing is like I'm spending all this

975
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,840
time editing and all this and all that and putting

976
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:08,559
a lot of work into this. And then somebody tells me, like,

977
00:58:09,719 --> 00:58:11,519
you know, I put all that work in and then

978
00:58:11,599 --> 00:58:16,119
they say, you know, farm Sanman is poison or you

979
00:58:16,159 --> 00:58:18,719
know you'll drain our oceans by twenty forty eight. You

980
00:58:18,719 --> 00:58:20,800
didn't even watch what I put out there, and you're

981
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,519
just you know, it can get to you after a while.

982
00:58:26,519 --> 00:58:29,559
What always brings you back is getting out on sites,

983
00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:33,280
getting out on boats, you know, seeing this stuff firsthand,

984
00:58:33,639 --> 00:58:36,440
seeing the lives that are impacted by it. Right, that

985
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:40,039
that always re lights a fire for me, and it's

986
00:58:40,199 --> 00:58:42,920
something I always look forward to. It's just getting back

987
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:43,480
in the field.

988
00:58:46,039 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you had online attack or trolling ever genuinely

989
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,280
affect Yeah.

990
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:59,079
Speaker 2: There was a learning curve to dealing with just the

991
00:58:59,079 --> 00:59:03,800
fact that I was a growing online persona right when

992
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,880
I hit like a quarter million followers in TikTok. But

993
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,039
there was enough engagement there that I could spend all

994
00:59:08,119 --> 00:59:11,079
day staring at my phone, reloading it every thirty seconds

995
00:59:11,119 --> 00:59:12,840
to see if there was a new comment or somebody

996
00:59:13,199 --> 00:59:15,719
made a video about me or whatever. And I did

997
00:59:16,119 --> 00:59:20,079
you know, I got addicted to knowing what was being

998
00:59:20,119 --> 00:59:23,039
said about me or said to me. For some time.

999
00:59:23,679 --> 00:59:26,480
That was not good, right, and it led to burnout.

1000
00:59:26,719 --> 00:59:30,320
I'd have like a month where my whole world was TikTok,

1001
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:36,199
like it was university, fishmongering, editing stuff, looking at it

1002
00:59:36,239 --> 00:59:38,639
all that was it. That's all I'd do, And then

1003
00:59:38,679 --> 00:59:40,840
I obviously would burn out. I hit a point where

1004
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,280
like this is insane. I'm done, I put my phone down,

1005
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:48,239
I delete TikTok, I delete it, and I'm just I

1006
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,559
walk away and then I come back a month later

1007
00:59:50,679 --> 00:59:52,599
and do it all again. And that cycle happened a

1008
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:55,320
few times. What I had to learn to do was

1009
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,679
to compartmentalize it. Right. Nowadays, I just separate what is

1010
00:59:59,719 --> 01:00:02,599
to me work from life.

1011
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:03,079
Speaker 1: Right.

1012
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,039
Speaker 2: If I'm if I have a video that's going crazy

1013
01:00:06,159 --> 01:00:08,719
and not in a good way, it doesn't happen much, right,

1014
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,719
It's my engagement is largely positive. You do focus on

1015
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,599
the negative sometimes, you know. When that happens, I hit

1016
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,519
like five or six o'clock, I'm done. You know, I'm

1017
01:00:17,519 --> 01:00:18,920
not looking at my phone again. I don't care. I

1018
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:20,599
don't care it's calling me. We're done. And that has

1019
01:00:20,639 --> 01:00:25,079
been a really healthy tabilizing piece to it is really

1020
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:26,199
getting offline.

1021
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: You know.

1022
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 2: As important as the Internet is and social media is

1023
01:00:29,559 --> 01:00:32,920
for this stuff, it has its limits. Right, You've got

1024
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,039
to ground yourself back in reality.

1025
01:00:37,559 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: It must be difficult with what you do with the

1026
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:49,559
videos and things to have peer successful and tried to

1027
01:00:49,599 --> 01:00:54,440
promote something positive when there's all this maybe effects of

1028
01:00:54,559 --> 01:00:56,719
some of the things going on behind the scenes.

1029
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it is at times, right, the benefit being

1030
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,079
I when I'm filming on sites, right, I am in

1031
01:01:07,119 --> 01:01:11,480
my element. I'm that is where I want to be.

1032
01:01:11,519 --> 01:01:14,239
I am happy as a clam right, So it comes

1033
01:01:14,239 --> 01:01:19,559
across very organically that you know, I'm an enthusiastic, upbeat,

1034
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,400
really into this kind of stuff in the video from

1035
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,079
those areas, so that that definitely helps helps play into

1036
01:01:26,119 --> 01:01:31,840
it too. But you know, I just because there's detractors

1037
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:36,559
and negativity and all of that online doesn't mean there's

1038
01:01:36,599 --> 01:01:38,800
also not the other side of it, right. As I said,

1039
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,199
majority of the engagement I get is positive, right, And

1040
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,559
it means the world to me when a farmer reaches

1041
01:01:45,599 --> 01:01:48,480
out to me independently to say that, like to thank

1042
01:01:48,639 --> 01:01:50,880
me for doing this and that they wish they could

1043
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:52,960
do this themselves, or that this had been done before.

1044
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,800
You know, that means a lot more to me than

1045
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,639
you know, focusing on to Trey actors, because it's like,

1046
01:02:01,719 --> 01:02:03,119
that's ultimately what I'm trying to do.

1047
01:02:03,559 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 1: You know.

1048
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 2: My goal here is to take those people doing this

1049
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,960
right and put what they're doing on a pedestal. And

1050
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,320
if I have to be the filter between them and

1051
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,760
anonymity on the Internet, I'm happy to take it.

1052
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: Yep. I'll tell you a good one to keep in

1053
01:02:21,039 --> 01:02:25,000
mind as well. It's one used across here a lot.

1054
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:29,360
A guy that told me this, and I have a huge

1055
01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:32,599
he's not with us any longer, unfortunately, but a huge

1056
01:02:32,639 --> 01:02:38,159
respect for them. So I'll put it in your context

1057
01:02:39,199 --> 01:02:42,320
for you to use some of that guys when they

1058
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:46,960
come up with negativity and different things behind the scene.

1059
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,000
As this guy says, remember, I'm sure it'll be a

1060
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:55,199
sane you know, well, it'll be the same over there.

1061
01:02:55,559 --> 01:02:59,400
Mind over, matat have you heard that before?

1062
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:02,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what comes.

1063
01:03:02,039 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: He says, mind over, you don't mind, and they don't

1064
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,480
made that.

1065
01:03:10,639 --> 01:03:12,719
Speaker 2: I haven't heard. That's good.

1066
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:19,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's enjoying about what I should get that on

1067
01:03:19,679 --> 01:03:24,840
the wall. Yeah, get that in the wall quickly. Oh

1068
01:03:25,159 --> 01:03:29,239
I suppose how lonely can build in an online presence

1069
01:03:29,559 --> 01:03:32,239
actually become Yeah.

1070
01:03:32,119 --> 01:03:37,199
Speaker 2: It's it's different, right, it's you know what I do

1071
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:44,159
is not a typical influencers route. Most the most painless

1072
01:03:44,199 --> 01:03:49,239
way to build an online business as an influencer is

1073
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:55,119
to review products, uh, do make up tutorials, talk about

1074
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,719
your life in a very flashy way, all of this

1075
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,519
stuff sitting in front of a camera in your road. Right.

1076
01:04:02,679 --> 01:04:05,320
You do it from you do it from home, and

1077
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:10,000
that is the business model. That's the opposite of what

1078
01:04:10,039 --> 01:04:13,360
I do. Right, So I'm intentionally getting myself out there,

1079
01:04:13,519 --> 01:04:16,559
talking to new people all the time in new countries.

1080
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,119
I'm in the thick of it by design, so that

1081
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:27,400
that does keep me, you know, connected to the real

1082
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,639
world instead of being like a little gremlin stuck in

1083
01:04:29,639 --> 01:04:33,039
my apartment making videos. But you know, it is fifty

1084
01:04:33,039 --> 01:04:37,800
to fifty, I go. I got both extremes, so you know,

1085
01:04:38,679 --> 01:04:40,320
you can definitely build it in a way where it's

1086
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,760
not lonely at all. Absolutely not. I wouldn't consider this

1087
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:48,000
a lonely Like what I do is not. I meet

1088
01:04:48,119 --> 01:04:51,239
more people than I would in any other capacity in

1089
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:55,599
the seafood world as far as I know. And I

1090
01:04:55,639 --> 01:04:59,039
also get my downtime. You know, where I'm it's just

1091
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:01,119
me and me and New York with my partner, and

1092
01:05:02,079 --> 01:05:05,000
it's quieter, which has its moments as well.

1093
01:05:05,079 --> 01:05:10,599
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. Do you think audiences some things forget there's

1094
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:15,000
a real human being behind the content, especially with what

1095
01:05:15,119 --> 01:05:15,599
you're doing.

1096
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:18,519
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean I forget that when I watch other

1097
01:05:18,519 --> 01:05:22,800
people's stuff, Right, I'll find myself like watching a video

1098
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,119
and be like, oh, like, well, like why does he

1099
01:05:25,199 --> 01:05:26,440
have to do this? Why did you have to do that.

1100
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:29,360
Why did they have to do this? And in the

1101
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,440
video like I'll stop pitching this product or I see

1102
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:35,079
in the background like this is annoying. And then I realized, like, oh,

1103
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:37,960
they're also running a business the same exact same thing

1104
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:42,559
I'm doing. I need to understand and appreciate that more so. Yeah,

1105
01:05:42,559 --> 01:05:46,039
I mean, like I forget that people are people sometimes

1106
01:05:46,039 --> 01:05:48,079
online too. I think we all do. And I think

1107
01:05:48,079 --> 01:05:50,840
that's where a lot of the hatred comes from on

1108
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:59,440
the internet. But you know, when I actually decided I

1109
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,559
was going to go out this, go on LinkedIn and

1110
01:06:01,639 --> 01:06:04,119
commit to what I'm doing as a business and a

1111
01:06:04,159 --> 01:06:06,599
career and something I could be proud of and public about.

1112
01:06:06,719 --> 01:06:08,880
For a long time, no one knew I was making tiktoks,

1113
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,679
at least like in my real world circle family, friends

1114
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,119
and not wasn't nothing. When I committed to it, I

1115
01:06:16,159 --> 01:06:18,559
had to choose am I going to be the face

1116
01:06:18,599 --> 01:06:20,800
of this? Is this going to be built around me

1117
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,559
as a human being? Or am I going to do

1118
01:06:23,639 --> 01:06:28,199
this as a brand as something I'm removed from that

1119
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:33,679
I run but I'm not in it, you know, And

1120
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:38,400
I chose the former for a few reasons, but that

1121
01:06:38,719 --> 01:06:42,360
you know, I wanted to have the human connection because

1122
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,079
that's what I felt seafood and aquaculture missed a lot

1123
01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:49,000
of times, was just somebody sitting down and talking about

1124
01:06:49,039 --> 01:06:54,239
it how it is right, and not reading reports or

1125
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,239
watching a conference.

1126
01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:58,079
Speaker 1: That.

1127
01:06:59,639 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 2: You know, I want people to have that personal connection

1128
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:09,199
with me. It isn't up. You know, it's not always successful,

1129
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,599
I will say, you know, it depends some some series

1130
01:07:12,719 --> 01:07:15,360
have more success than others with that. You know, like

1131
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,719
how personal can I be? But that's always a goal

1132
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:21,920
is to like really try and connect with the viewer.

1133
01:07:22,519 --> 01:07:25,159
I want them to feel like I'm talking to them right,

1134
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:29,960
or that I'm experiencing and learning about this stuff with them,

1135
01:07:30,239 --> 01:07:33,159
because that's how I learn, right. If I'm out on

1136
01:07:33,159 --> 01:07:35,320
the farm, that's the best way for me to learn

1137
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:39,280
there does not contend with the research papers, the write ups,

1138
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,440
the websites, none of it even comes close. So if

1139
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,519
I can even just for a little bit, take that

1140
01:07:45,639 --> 01:07:48,000
viewer along with me, if they can be there on

1141
01:07:48,039 --> 01:07:51,920
the farm with me for two minutes, that's great. That's

1142
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:56,159
what I want to do. Right Again, not always achievable,

1143
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,679
but that is kind of the bar I'm shooting for.

1144
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,239
Speaker 1: Well, the end that's good, really good that you obviously

1145
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:08,559
hobbled it well. Even when there's negativity, you hamble it well.

1146
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:13,079
I'm pleased to hear that. Looking back, No, you must

1147
01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:15,679
feel the struggle was worth it.

1148
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's as I said earlier. I wouldn't change it

1149
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,880
for the world. It has been. I'm an adventurous kind

1150
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,800
of person, right, I always wanted to see the world

1151
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:30,319
and to meet new people, and not just like sitting

1152
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:33,960
at a resort, you know, sip and pinic Lotte is like,

1153
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:36,239
I want to be in the thick of it. I

1154
01:08:36,239 --> 01:08:40,159
want to learn, I want to move there, right, and

1155
01:08:41,039 --> 01:08:42,840
this has been a way for me to do that.

1156
01:08:44,159 --> 01:08:46,479
All the challenges that come along with it, the volatility,

1157
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:52,399
and you know that that's normal for entrepreneurship, and so

1158
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:55,840
the fact that my entrepreneurial route is not stuck behind

1159
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:58,880
code and it's not stuck in a warehouse. It is

1160
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,439
in part out on the edge of the world is

1161
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:07,359
you know, a privilege that I can't express how grateful

1162
01:09:07,359 --> 01:09:12,479
I am to have, right, And Yeah, at times did

1163
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,159
I want to change things up, Yeah, but I would

1164
01:09:16,199 --> 01:09:20,600
never ever give us that experience I've had so far.

1165
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: Good. I'm so as the same goes. Is that behind

1166
01:09:26,039 --> 01:09:29,960
that confidence and that behaved you what you know, I've

1167
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:34,439
talk to you to document any filmmaking rather than simply

1168
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:36,560
making short form content.

1169
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:41,399
Speaker 2: Yes, so that that is where I'm going with it.

1170
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,319
Not in fault. I'm not saying, okay, goodbye to my

1171
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:50,319
short form platforms. Moving on to documentary style pieces, I've

1172
01:09:50,359 --> 01:09:54,359
always wanted to be able to have longer discussions dive

1173
01:09:54,399 --> 01:09:57,720
into deeper topics. I can't talk about sea lice in

1174
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:04,159
two minutes. Is too complicated, right, I've tried, but you

1175
01:10:04,279 --> 01:10:08,119
cannot build the nuance of the history of its involvement

1176
01:10:08,239 --> 01:10:11,199
in salmon farming, the difference between species and in regions

1177
01:10:11,239 --> 01:10:14,600
around the world, and how we've been treating it, how

1178
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,119
that's been evolving. Right, You can't get into all of

1179
01:10:17,119 --> 01:10:22,199
that in a short I need time, and that's true

1180
01:10:22,199 --> 01:10:26,000
for a lot of topics. More and more so, what

1181
01:10:26,039 --> 01:10:29,760
I've been doing over the last year here is building

1182
01:10:30,079 --> 01:10:35,720
less single videos and more a series. So New Zealand,

1183
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:41,079
for instance, was nine two and a half three minutes shorts.

1184
01:10:41,119 --> 01:10:44,359
In a series, it's effectively a twenty minute documentary, just

1185
01:10:44,399 --> 01:10:50,000
split up right after that. I've been doing things like

1186
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:54,359
British Columbia, the Falklands, Australia is in the works. Now,

1187
01:10:54,399 --> 01:10:59,279
that's a huge one where I filmed with that intention. Yes,

1188
01:10:59,319 --> 01:11:02,119
I'm going to build a series on social media, but

1189
01:11:02,199 --> 01:11:05,439
I'm also going to make the full documentary. I have

1190
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:11,000
all the footage I film with the intent of this

1191
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:12,720
can be for an iPhone or this can be for

1192
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:16,479
a tablet or a TV. All at the same time

1193
01:11:18,279 --> 01:11:20,319
tense where a lot of my business expense has been

1194
01:11:20,319 --> 01:11:22,560
going is I need equipment that can do that. But

1195
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:26,880
I digress. You know, I want to be able to

1196
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,600
get this information in front of people, however they want

1197
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:34,479
to digest it. If they prefer, you know, sort of

1198
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:37,079
informally sitting on their phones, they want captions on it,

1199
01:11:37,279 --> 01:11:38,600
they want to be able to speed up through it,

1200
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:40,840
which a lot of people do, then yeah, I want

1201
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:44,039
to I will be accommodating to that and build a

1202
01:11:44,079 --> 01:11:46,359
series that they can do that in. I also want

1203
01:11:46,399 --> 01:11:48,319
to put a full documentary online for the people who

1204
01:11:48,319 --> 01:11:50,920
are willing to say that's cool. I'm going to go

1205
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:53,319
make popcorn and get the whole family and we're going

1206
01:11:53,399 --> 01:11:57,000
to sit down and watch Australian seafood for the next

1207
01:11:57,359 --> 01:11:59,880
thirty forty five minutes. Right, I want to be a

1208
01:12:00,159 --> 01:12:03,880
to be where people need me to be, you know,

1209
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:08,039
depending on what they're willing to digest. That's up to them, right.

1210
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,279
But I'm really quite confident on the future of this

1211
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:16,479
in longer form pieces. That medium is not going away

1212
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:19,319
anytime soon. Yeah, short form video took off, but it

1213
01:12:19,359 --> 01:12:24,560
didn't really draw away from long form content either. And again,

1214
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,880
there's so many pieces to this that I want to

1215
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:31,199
be able to do in a longer format. And you know,

1216
01:12:31,399 --> 01:12:35,479
not just because I can't talk about nuanced pieces, but

1217
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,199
it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me

1218
01:12:38,399 --> 01:12:43,920
to try to do a national campaign, right, this is

1219
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,880
all of aquaculture in say Vietnam. I can't do that

1220
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:51,680
in a short video for a number of reasons. Right,

1221
01:12:51,680 --> 01:12:53,560
It's like, I need to be there for a long time.

1222
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,159
It's going to cost me a lot to be there.

1223
01:12:55,159 --> 01:12:57,359
I need to bring people in. This needs to be

1224
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:02,359
proper film production and not a short form video.

1225
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,640
Speaker 1: Are people still willing to set and absorb long forms

1226
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:11,359
the retail in or has attention spun and become an issue.

1227
01:13:12,079 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 2: That's something I can't speak to yet. I don't have

1228
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,319
enough long form videos out that I can say, here's

1229
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:19,880
what this looks like. Talk to me in a year,

1230
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,319
and I might, but not at the moment. I'm hoping

1231
01:13:23,319 --> 01:13:26,039
that they're still willing to stick around. I know I do.

1232
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:28,680
I personally watch multi air YouTube videos all the time.

1233
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:31,119
Sometimes I listen to them more than watch.

1234
01:13:31,199 --> 01:13:39,359
Speaker 1: But pointstance, well, I would say you're obviously getting good

1235
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:44,960
at it because watching the videos on your platforms that

1236
01:13:45,039 --> 01:13:49,159
I what I what I've watched. I would never want

1237
01:13:49,239 --> 01:13:52,319
to leave them without seeing them through because it was

1238
01:13:52,359 --> 01:13:54,479
what I would I would be worried to what I

1239
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:58,479
was going to mess because they're pretty exciting and interesting.

1240
01:13:59,199 --> 01:14:02,239
Speaker 2: Which which drew you in. If you don't mind me asking.

1241
01:14:02,399 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 1: For the Baja Oca farm you know in Mexico.

1242
01:14:07,279 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 2: Mmm, that was it. That was an amazing one to shoot.

1243
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:11,640
It was the first time I ever flew in a helicopter.

1244
01:14:14,079 --> 01:14:17,039
Speaker 1: Well that's why I said at the start about the

1245
01:14:17,079 --> 01:14:20,319
auction man, because I'm seeing you and a helicopter and

1246
01:14:20,359 --> 01:14:21,560
then I'm seeing you diving.

1247
01:14:23,399 --> 01:14:25,319
Speaker 2: That was all in one day too. That was good fun.

1248
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:29,079
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, what on earth are we gonna get this?

1249
01:14:29,319 --> 01:14:32,680
Have this man doing that? You're gonna fly itself.

1250
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:41,159
Speaker 2: To know though, I am that my my Baja Firms

1251
01:14:41,199 --> 01:14:42,920
videos were very well received at the time and it's

1252
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:45,880
been Yeah, it's been almost two years since I was there,

1253
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,319
so it's good to know that's still a relevant piece.

1254
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:53,159
Speaker 1: Oh see, I didn't realize it was that long. And

1255
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:57,880
what would you say makes a powerful documentary in your opinion?

1256
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:02,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, powerful documentary to me, it needs to be built, right.

1257
01:15:02,239 --> 01:15:05,640
I've tried to adapt, let's say, the series I make

1258
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,880
for short form socials. So if you watch the baja

1259
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:12,159
Acal Farms piece, that it was a four part series

1260
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:14,800
on baja Acal farms, right, so maybe like a ten

1261
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,680
eleven minute documentary in total. That does not mean that

1262
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,039
I made a ten eleven minute documentary and then split

1263
01:15:22,079 --> 01:15:27,279
it up into quarters. That's not how social media works.

1264
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:33,159
They have to be purpose built for each platform, right unfortunately,

1265
01:15:34,159 --> 01:15:36,199
which means it's a lot more work for me. But

1266
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:43,159
you know, building what I'm trying to do in documentaries

1267
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:48,239
from the sort of foundation that I have in short form,

1268
01:15:49,039 --> 01:15:52,439
I've found that I need to be far slower, right,

1269
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:55,680
and I can be far more implicit. When I'm making

1270
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:59,880
short form videos. I need to tell it how it

1271
01:15:59,960 --> 01:16:03,000
is is immediately. I need to speak quickly. I need

1272
01:16:03,039 --> 01:16:07,199
to get to the point right away, and then you know,

1273
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:11,000
maybe even start with it. You know, salmon farming in

1274
01:16:11,039 --> 01:16:14,640
British Columbia is facing problems. Here's why. If I were

1275
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:17,239
going to make a documentary about that, I would talk

1276
01:16:17,279 --> 01:16:21,199
about the history of salmon farming in British Columbia, why

1277
01:16:21,239 --> 01:16:24,840
they use a different species that our native, work through

1278
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,680
some of the problems historically to current, and then hit

1279
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:32,600
him with the climax of and this is the problem right,

1280
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:35,319
here's the disconnect. I need to build it more like

1281
01:16:35,359 --> 01:16:40,079
a five part act in a documentary, then a two

1282
01:16:40,159 --> 01:16:44,520
minute back of the book read. That's been a bit

1283
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:46,119
of an up bill learning curve. I We'll say it's

1284
01:16:46,159 --> 01:16:48,399
different the first time, Like the first few times I'd

1285
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:51,760
tried writing these longer form pieces. I'd then go to

1286
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:55,840
my team and my editors and they'd say, Wow, that's horrible.

1287
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,880
We are not doing this. It's been a road, but

1288
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:04,560
we have some in the pipeline now that are going

1289
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:08,720
to be really cool. Stay tuned for Australia. That one

1290
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:11,199
is as pushing the boundaries of even what we can

1291
01:17:11,239 --> 01:17:13,560
do right now, and it'll show.

1292
01:17:15,039 --> 01:17:20,600
Speaker 1: Exciting. And so what documentaries are you or project are

1293
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,279
you most proud of? The why?

1294
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:29,000
Speaker 2: That's a good question. You know, Scotland I'm very proud

1295
01:17:29,039 --> 01:17:33,199
of because to me, it proved what I can what

1296
01:17:33,239 --> 01:17:36,359
I do. Worse, it proved that I can keep people

1297
01:17:36,399 --> 01:17:40,199
around consistently on this topic. It was the first time

1298
01:17:40,199 --> 01:17:42,760
I said, okay, I'm doing a year in Scotland and

1299
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:46,279
this is all about aquaculture. Here we go. I got

1300
01:17:46,319 --> 01:17:51,039
fifty million views on Scottish salmon in one year. That

1301
01:17:51,119 --> 01:17:54,079
had never been done. And I was really proud about that, right,

1302
01:17:54,119 --> 01:17:56,920
I was, Okay, there's I don't know if anyone even

1303
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:00,800
thought about this before, but here's the bar. That was

1304
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:06,520
really cool coming out of that. You know, I don't

1305
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:10,119
make videos nearly as quickly, Right, I'm not going to

1306
01:18:10,199 --> 01:18:13,640
have fifty million views in twenty twenty six. It's not

1307
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:17,039
going to happen. I'm changing up the strategy a little, right,

1308
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:24,000
I'd rather those views count far far more toward how

1309
01:18:24,039 --> 01:18:26,279
long did people stick around? And what's the impact? Right,

1310
01:18:26,319 --> 01:18:29,359
I'd rather have half the viewership and twice the impact,

1311
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:31,560
even if it all kind of comes out the same.

1312
01:18:32,079 --> 01:18:34,520
So that's what I'm really proud about doing now is

1313
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:38,960
turning what Scotland proved into these sorts of longer and longer,

1314
01:18:39,039 --> 01:18:43,239
larger projects right with one key focus. New Zealand to me,

1315
01:18:43,359 --> 01:18:44,760
was a proof of concept for that. I went to

1316
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:49,439
New Zealand in October twenty twenty five and did a

1317
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:52,279
road trip starting the top of the South Island, did

1318
01:18:52,319 --> 01:18:55,960
two full laps of the islands'bout four or five thousand

1319
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,159
kilometers in the road there and actually made it a

1320
01:18:59,199 --> 01:19:01,840
linear story instead of it just being one off. So so

1321
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:04,479
here's this Scottish farm, here's this Scottish shellfish, you know,

1322
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:09,239
here's this Scottish research center, here's Sam's. New Zealand was

1323
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:14,239
okay for the next month, I'm in New Zealand and

1324
01:19:14,359 --> 01:19:17,119
you were going to follow this journey every couple days

1325
01:19:17,239 --> 01:19:19,319
as we started Nelson and work away to the salmon

1326
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:22,720
farms and the Marlbiole sounds and down to the oysters

1327
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:26,920
and those green shell muscles that everyone loves. A very

1328
01:19:27,039 --> 01:19:30,680
linear trip. That is the sort of second evolution that

1329
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,600
I'm really proud of is actually being able to put

1330
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:37,279
that like build it linearly because it's not filmed that way.

1331
01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:41,960
You know, I jump around all over the place. If

1332
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,479
I actually followed the story of how I was on

1333
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:48,199
a road trip in New Zealand, it would be chaos. So,

1334
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:53,840
you know, putting that into a nice I've started here,

1335
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:57,279
here's a little circular road trip, you know, turning it

1336
01:19:57,279 --> 01:20:02,520
into that something I'm very proud of recently. The Falklands

1337
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,920
recently I'm quite proud of because they have no aquaculture,

1338
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:07,920
and my whole purpose for being there was to talk

1339
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:12,359
about it, right, so I had to film an island

1340
01:20:13,199 --> 01:20:15,520
that had no aquaculture. The first time I ever did

1341
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,880
is right, I saw a fishing boat in the distance.

1342
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,720
That was it for my world. That's all I The

1343
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:24,560
rest I had to get creative with and see how

1344
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:28,439
I could bring a story together on what the future

1345
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,800
could be, not on what it is right now. That

1346
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:32,720
was the different one for me.

1347
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:38,039
Speaker 1: And was that because the layout there was no deep

1348
01:20:38,079 --> 01:20:44,199
water or shelters water or was there any other reason

1349
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:45,880
why the Falklands, but.

1350
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:48,319
Speaker 2: They just don't have it right now. They only have

1351
01:20:48,399 --> 01:20:51,720
thirty five hundred people. It's a very small little island.

1352
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:57,319
So as of yes, they just have have no aquaculture.

1353
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:01,800
Even their fisheries are almost majority overseas so they're they're

1354
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:05,039
very there's actually very little involvement on shore for it. Yes,

1355
01:21:05,079 --> 01:21:07,359
it's the biggest part of the economy, but it's actually

1356
01:21:07,359 --> 01:21:08,640
not a huge part of daily life.

1357
01:21:09,119 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 1: I think they actually make more money out of trading

1358
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:17,520
licenses to foreign boats than fishing themselves. Well they were

1359
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:18,159
for a while.

1360
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:22,039
Speaker 2: Yes, that that is true, and it's but one of

1361
01:21:22,039 --> 01:21:26,399
the reasons they're interested in Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will

1362
01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:28,199
say that was I never had squid that good.

1363
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,520
Speaker 1: I hope to see good. Back to the question you

1364
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:37,119
asked me about the films I watched and I said

1365
01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:40,399
the ones in Baha. It's as you started talking about

1366
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:43,439
the other I watched the ones doing the west coast

1367
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:47,399
of Scotland and up in the Shetlands, so I've seen

1368
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:51,680
them as well. And your references to Appelli, which is

1369
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:54,159
great festival up there.

1370
01:21:55,159 --> 01:21:59,359
Speaker 2: That was I specifically times Shetlands to be there for ya,

1371
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:03,920
because it was not a good filming time of year, right,

1372
01:22:04,119 --> 01:22:06,359
probably the worst to film out on the water up there.

1373
01:22:06,399 --> 01:22:08,079
But you can't not do.

1374
01:22:08,119 --> 01:22:11,399
Speaker 1: That, right, Did you have the cult done?

1375
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 2: I did not know I was. I was the American

1376
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:17,840
outsider there, so I've played the part somebody did give

1377
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:19,439
me an axe at one point. So that was I

1378
01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:21,199
had that for like five minutes.

1379
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:25,600
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, you get start of the way. Have you

1380
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:29,840
ever started following me in that story? Ended up changing

1381
01:22:30,079 --> 01:22:33,279
your own opinion during the process.

1382
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:38,800
Speaker 2: While I'm filming. Absolutely, When I'm editing, it's by the

1383
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:41,680
time I get home, I know what I want to say, right,

1384
01:22:42,079 --> 01:22:45,039
But when I'm out in the field, yeah, absolutely, my

1385
01:22:45,119 --> 01:22:48,520
opinions change on on what I'm looking at and what

1386
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:49,960
I think the importance of it is.

1387
01:22:51,039 --> 01:22:51,199
Speaker 1: Right.

1388
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:53,840
Speaker 2: When I say I work with you know, innovators and

1389
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:57,800
leaders in the space, it doesn't mean you know that

1390
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:02,000
doesn't just mean this is an incredibly profitable company or

1391
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:06,239
this company is carbon negative for you know, metrics like that,

1392
01:23:06,239 --> 01:23:10,119
That's not all I'm looking for. I'm often looking for

1393
01:23:10,359 --> 01:23:15,319
more qualitative pieces to how they operate in what they do,

1394
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:19,119
like ethos behind it. Right, are they operating successfully in

1395
01:23:19,159 --> 01:23:24,279
an incredibly challenging environment? If so, why and how right?

1396
01:23:24,319 --> 01:23:26,960
How does that play in? An example of that would

1397
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,800
be recently for me, would be Tasmania. Right, that's some

1398
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,840
of the warmest water that salmon are farmed in the world,

1399
01:23:34,359 --> 01:23:36,640
and they can only do it because they've selectively bred

1400
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:40,119
those fish to do it for the last last twenty years, right,

1401
01:23:40,279 --> 01:23:43,640
that was it was challenging, right to get there and

1402
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:47,399
to continue. They're not done. So I found it very

1403
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:49,840
interesting when I was there to just focus in on that, like,

1404
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,880
why why are we doing this? Why are we putting

1405
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:57,960
so much time into figuring this out? And what you

1406
01:23:58,039 --> 01:24:00,960
come to realize is, well, if they can have domestic

1407
01:24:01,159 --> 01:24:05,239
production to supply their own Australian demand, right, that will

1408
01:24:05,239 --> 01:24:07,720
put them in a very unique position in their corner

1409
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:09,880
of the world, where otherwise they'd be flying this stuff

1410
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:12,079
in from the other side of the planet in bulk,

1411
01:24:13,279 --> 01:24:15,640
kind of like the US does. And they don't want

1412
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:17,680
to do that. They want to be secure in their

1413
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:19,680
food production. And I thought that that was a very

1414
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:21,720
like I did not think that that was going to

1415
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:23,880
be a part of it when I was there, but

1416
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:26,399
that turned into a really important piece of the Tasmanian

1417
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:27,039
puzzle for me.

1418
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:32,439
Speaker 1: Excellent, Now, if you're going to be doing more business

1419
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:37,640
in Australia you left, you know, they shorten everything in Australia,

1420
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:41,600
so you worked in Tasmania, you wan to TAZZI.

1421
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:45,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm working all that into my scripts as the

1422
01:24:45,399 --> 01:24:49,199
best I can. I bought into Kubra so that that

1423
01:24:49,239 --> 01:24:51,760
helped me out on the in Western Australia, out in

1424
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:52,560
the red Sands.

1425
01:24:53,079 --> 01:24:57,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, they're they're might I've saying that because

1426
01:24:58,359 --> 01:25:04,600
our youngest son, he moved out to Australia twenty five

1427
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:09,960
years ago. He was going to backpack around Australia for

1428
01:25:10,079 --> 01:25:13,520
a year. He was going to go to New Zealand

1429
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:16,640
for a year, and then he was going to come

1430
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:20,399
back home through Asia for a year. So what was

1431
01:25:20,399 --> 01:25:24,840
his trip? He contacted an old school friend who is

1432
01:25:25,119 --> 01:25:31,039
he knew was living in Sydney, and he moved out there,

1433
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:37,000
got a bed until he got organized, and he's married

1434
01:25:37,119 --> 01:25:39,640
with two children. He's never left sen.

1435
01:25:42,359 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 2: You know, I met a lot of people in Australia

1436
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:48,800
with a similar story, even a few Scots. Seems like

1437
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:52,840
a bit of a popular, popular plan to do that

1438
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:55,239
whole loop and then you get lost along the way.

1439
01:25:57,640 --> 01:25:59,479
I gotta be honest that we're parts of that. We're

1440
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:02,199
part of parts of my Australia tripe. Where I was

1441
01:26:02,319 --> 01:26:05,119
questioning what I'm doing in New York City. It's like

1442
01:26:05,199 --> 01:26:08,760
I should be in this coastal town by the Great

1443
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:10,960
Barrier Reef. This is where I belong.

1444
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:14,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a wonderful country.

1445
01:26:15,159 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 2: It is beautiful.

1446
01:26:16,359 --> 01:26:20,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you find difficulty is stay imbalanced and objective

1447
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:23,520
when covered in controversial topics?

1448
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely absolutely I do. Right, I have pressure from

1449
01:26:27,239 --> 01:26:32,239
both sides of me on that. Sometimes. You know, it's like,

1450
01:26:32,399 --> 01:26:36,359
do I commit a lot of time to talking about

1451
01:26:37,319 --> 01:26:41,199
why farm salmon is not dyed the color it is,

1452
01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:44,640
why that's it's a feat ingredients and where that comes from.

1453
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:47,600
Do I commit a lot of time to that because

1454
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:53,159
consumers in America listed as a top concern? Or do

1455
01:26:53,239 --> 01:26:57,640
I basically ignore it because the farmers don't even think

1456
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:00,359
about it, that that is not a subject that they

1457
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:04,960
consider and they'd rather we focus on what they're actually

1458
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:05,880
facing day to day.

1459
01:27:06,359 --> 01:27:06,560
Speaker 1: Right.

1460
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:11,079
Speaker 2: So sometimes the disconnect between consumers and the seafood industry

1461
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:14,800
are so great that they can't even come at the

1462
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:18,199
same table on this stuff. Right, That can be a

1463
01:27:18,239 --> 01:27:23,119
bit challenging sometimes at the end of the day, I'm

1464
01:27:23,159 --> 01:27:27,720
not unbiased. I'm not a journalist, right. I work with

1465
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:33,640
fish farmers, I work with aquaculturists around the world, ranchers

1466
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:38,279
and fishers, Right, those are my people. So when push

1467
01:27:38,319 --> 01:27:41,960
comes to shove, I will often side with them on

1468
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:46,359
subjects that I really am passionate about. I also consider

1469
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:50,600
myself an environmentalist and a biologist. Right, I am a biologist,

1470
01:27:51,279 --> 01:27:54,840
So to me, it's about balance. Right, There's no reason

1471
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:59,039
I can't have vested interests while also supporting it intrinsically.

1472
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:03,159
Do people agree with that? Not one hundred percent? You

1473
01:28:03,199 --> 01:28:08,119
know I do. I do sometimes get questioned about that.

1474
01:28:09,199 --> 01:28:11,760
My response to that is, Okay, if I don't do

1475
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:13,439
it this way, it's not going to be done at all.

1476
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:17,439
There there are no fishers or farmers that will let

1477
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:19,479
me go out on their boats. If my intention is

1478
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:21,560
to get as many views as I can so that

1479
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:23,159
I can profit as much as I can off of

1480
01:28:23,199 --> 01:28:27,039
what they do, it's parasitic. And it would also require

1481
01:28:27,119 --> 01:28:32,000
me to be quite sensationalist in what I do. So

1482
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:36,079
it's not a you know, pick a poison situation. I

1483
01:28:36,119 --> 01:28:41,760
don't consider it that. It's just the reality of operating,

1484
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:47,760
you know, a business online is there is no such

1485
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:52,199
thing as like an unbiased view of anything. I don't

1486
01:28:52,199 --> 01:28:56,439
think that it hurts what I do because I'm there

1487
01:28:56,479 --> 01:28:59,920
to tell a greater story, and that is quite obvious.

1488
01:29:00,079 --> 01:29:00,199
Speaker 1: Right.

1489
01:29:00,279 --> 01:29:03,640
Speaker 2: Just because I was brought there doesn't mean that what

1490
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:08,199
I'm showing and telling isn't fascinating, true and interesting, and

1491
01:29:08,239 --> 01:29:10,000
that that's something I truly believe in.

1492
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:14,880
Speaker 1: Would you say there's going on from that? Would you

1493
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:21,880
say there's things that businesses don't or misunderstand about social

1494
01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:22,840
media marketing?

1495
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:30,039
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, it's It's a challenge I've faced since the

1496
01:29:30,079 --> 01:29:31,920
moment I turned this into a business.

1497
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:33,039
Speaker 1: Right.

1498
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:41,960
Speaker 2: The corruptx of social media is somebody's making money off

1499
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:46,640
of the time that you're committing to watching that somebody

1500
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,439
is It's the same as every other form of media. Right,

1501
01:29:50,119 --> 01:29:55,640
Nothing is free in this world. And many, many, to

1502
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:58,720
the majority of the folks that I reach out to

1503
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:00,600
me might want to work with me, want me to

1504
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:03,640
come visit what they do, believe that what I do

1505
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:10,279
I do for free for fun, And you know that

1506
01:30:10,279 --> 01:30:13,079
that is a big disconnect with large parts of the

1507
01:30:13,359 --> 01:30:17,239
of you know, fisheries and aquaculture. Is I love what

1508
01:30:17,319 --> 01:30:21,560
I do, but it's also a business, and it you know,

1509
01:30:22,119 --> 01:30:24,239
there are influencers that will come out and do these

1510
01:30:24,239 --> 01:30:28,600
sorts of things for free. Absolutely, right, It's important that

1511
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:31,880
when they work with folks like that that they keep

1512
01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:34,560
in mind that they're not doing it for free, they're

1513
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:40,319
doing it for someone else, right, and who knows what

1514
01:30:40,359 --> 01:30:45,319
the intention? Like, I often tell to groups, if you,

1515
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,199
if I were to do this for free, right, I

1516
01:30:48,319 --> 01:30:53,840
need to sell enough products or subscriptions or coaching classes

1517
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:58,159
in the middle of this to cover costs. So this

1518
01:30:58,199 --> 01:31:00,840
would be this would not be a video about out

1519
01:31:01,159 --> 01:31:05,079
your boat or your farm or your fish. This would

1520
01:31:05,119 --> 01:31:10,039
be seventy percent video about that and thirty percent me

1521
01:31:10,279 --> 01:31:15,920
selling products. That is something that I would love for

1522
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:20,319
the sector to get more comfortable with. Is what I

1523
01:31:20,399 --> 01:31:23,960
do is it's no different than comms and marketing budgets, right.

1524
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:29,560
It factors very, very seamlessly into those areas. And it's

1525
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:34,439
also not right for everyone, absolutely not right. What I

1526
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:40,680
do relies on strong visuals, great stories, right. That is

1527
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:43,760
often not the case for let's say, a lot of

1528
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:48,840
new tech startups in the aquaculture space. They don't have

1529
01:31:49,319 --> 01:31:52,000
long stories, they don't have something to show off. They

1530
01:31:52,079 --> 01:31:53,840
might have a little box with a camera in it

1531
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:57,479
that does a lot of interesting things. Technically, does that

1532
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:04,479
fit a national campaign? Probably not right. So it's it's

1533
01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:09,680
important to understand when social media is right for you

1534
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:10,159
and when.

1535
01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:16,800
Speaker 1: It isn't, Yeah, that's a good view, that's that's excellent.

1536
01:32:17,399 --> 01:32:24,479
How does about reading into what you've said there? As

1537
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:29,319
well as when it comes to some businesses, you're feeling

1538
01:32:29,399 --> 01:32:33,479
like you're either telling them, we're feeling like it you're

1539
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:34,119
in the way.

1540
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:41,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it's this is not a DGA anybody,

1541
01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:47,199
it's it's just it's the way, the way of the world, right,

1542
01:32:48,159 --> 01:32:50,680
because anybody can go post anything on Instagram for free,

1543
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:56,600
you know, it's it. It takes a bit of work

1544
01:32:56,720 --> 01:33:02,000
to show some why when I do it, it's different.

1545
01:33:02,039 --> 01:33:05,560
And then it costs money, not just to enough for that,

1546
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:07,199
not just then pay me to put it up, but

1547
01:33:07,359 --> 01:33:14,560
to produce it. Right, nowadays, my expenses are pretty significance.

1548
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:18,520
When I need videographers, editors and a full team around

1549
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:23,720
me to build these projects. It all kind of comes

1550
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:26,279
to a head at those sorts of meetings where it's

1551
01:33:26,279 --> 01:33:28,319
like this this is our idea, or like they come

1552
01:33:28,359 --> 01:33:30,159
to me and this is what we want to do,

1553
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:32,479
and I have to sort of bring it back down

1554
01:33:32,479 --> 01:33:35,960
to earth or maybe propose something bigger. Right, say, this

1555
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:39,960
is a great idea, Maybe let's explore this. I love

1556
01:33:39,960 --> 01:33:45,640
what you do. But this is one two minute video, right,

1557
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:50,479
I need to do something more substantial. Let's make this

1558
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:54,720
a national campaign. Let's get six other businesses involved, right,

1559
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:58,239
six other fishers, farmers and researchers all across the country

1560
01:33:58,359 --> 01:34:00,880
to be a part of this. Then we're talking about

1561
01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:06,359
something that's big enough that it's worth you know, me

1562
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:09,399
committing what could be two three, four months of my

1563
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:11,840
life to it, as well as contracting in a bunch

1564
01:34:11,840 --> 01:34:12,199
of people.

1565
01:34:13,359 --> 01:34:21,279
Speaker 1: But what's probably normal and life? Would I be right

1566
01:34:21,439 --> 01:34:26,720
in seeing James that you find the deal professionals who

1567
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:31,479
do the dal bayst they'll be the easiest to deal with.

1568
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, hasn't that been interesting? It's it's not what I expected.

1569
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:40,039
But yeah, my most successful projects, the project that keep

1570
01:34:40,079 --> 01:34:44,560
me going, are the ones that sometimes can be done

1571
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:52,199
in it like square away in a day. And to

1572
01:34:52,239 --> 01:34:56,239
me it's I think it's just a mutual understanding. You know,

1573
01:34:56,279 --> 01:34:58,680
you get on a call to somebody, and you meet

1574
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:01,039
somebody and you know pretty quick if they're on the

1575
01:35:01,039 --> 01:35:03,840
same page as you are, not, especially for me, like

1576
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:06,720
when I have to explain what I do and then

1577
01:35:07,039 --> 01:35:10,199
it becomes a discussion of like oh I thought TikTok

1578
01:35:10,239 --> 01:35:13,640
was getting banned in the US, and it goes down

1579
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:18,079
a different road, right, then, I'm very I understand that

1580
01:35:18,119 --> 01:35:21,439
this is not you know, perhaps they see what I

1581
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:23,840
do in a different light, but to those who see

1582
01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:25,720
what I do the way I do, right, that this

1583
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:29,560
is an important piece of maintaining a growing future on

1584
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:34,039
the seas that becomes much easier conversation.

1585
01:35:35,399 --> 01:35:40,800
Speaker 1: And would I even see in a mudgin anyway? This

1586
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:45,840
is my imagination that what you do on your phone

1587
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:49,239
maid and your route from the job with the people,

1588
01:35:50,199 --> 01:35:57,279
that will give you a stronger card and better able

1589
01:35:57,359 --> 01:36:01,439
to build a thrust with people, because I just don't

1590
01:36:01,479 --> 01:36:04,279
know how you could build that trust just bud Lane

1591
01:36:04,359 --> 01:36:05,880
to the Yeah.

1592
01:36:07,279 --> 01:36:14,079
Speaker 2: In a way, my rolling feed of productions is a

1593
01:36:14,079 --> 01:36:15,079
bit of a portfolio.

1594
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:16,039
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1595
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:19,680
Speaker 2: I think just the longevity with which I've been doing

1596
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:24,199
this and the amount of productions I've done lends to

1597
01:36:24,239 --> 01:36:28,720
the credibility of what I do. It's something that makes

1598
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:34,560
it very difficult to take anything any any content creation.

1599
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:36,840
If you want to be a content creator, to jump

1600
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:41,239
from this is fun to I want to commit to

1601
01:36:41,279 --> 01:36:46,079
this full time. Making that jump requires that credibility, right.

1602
01:36:46,399 --> 01:36:51,600
I put thousands of hours into this before it became

1603
01:36:53,279 --> 01:36:57,960
even reasonable to approach full time thousands, right, multiple years

1604
01:36:57,960 --> 01:37:00,960
of my life, like it took three years. I'm doing

1605
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:05,199
this with every possible free, free moment. I had to

1606
01:37:05,239 --> 01:37:08,239
get to a point where it turned into something different,

1607
01:37:09,319 --> 01:37:11,279
and that honestly wasn't even the intention. I just loved

1608
01:37:11,319 --> 01:37:14,399
what I was doing, and when the opportunity came that

1609
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:17,399
it's like, okay, you can do this, but now full time, okay,

1610
01:37:18,159 --> 01:37:22,039
you know, thumbs a word, let's do it. That wasn't

1611
01:37:22,039 --> 01:37:26,439
the intention. And there is a bit of luck and

1612
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:30,760
timing to it all, absolutely, but you can't just commit

1613
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:33,520
to it immediately right like right when you start up.

1614
01:37:36,119 --> 01:37:40,199
Speaker 1: I would say the fact that what you said there

1615
01:37:40,359 --> 01:37:44,479
you love what you do, and I would say the

1616
01:37:44,880 --> 01:37:47,039
good buck to it I mentioned earlier little bit. The

1617
01:37:47,079 --> 01:37:50,199
professionals and the people that are good at it, they'll

1618
01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:55,359
pick that up. I would say, that's your best selling point.

1619
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:02,279
Do you think I would say enthusiasm when your passion

1620
01:38:03,319 --> 01:38:04,119
all lot of things.

1621
01:38:05,119 --> 01:38:08,239
Speaker 2: You know, It's it's funny you say that, because I've

1622
01:38:08,279 --> 01:38:09,960
been more and more trying to pitch what I do

1623
01:38:10,119 --> 01:38:15,479
is it's like a narrative, right, It's like a first

1624
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:18,600
person narrative. I mean, like, let me come like we're

1625
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:20,920
not going to show off. We are going to show off,

1626
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:24,119
like like what's cool about what you're doing? But more

1627
01:38:24,159 --> 01:38:28,800
so when we're going to show it off through my discovery,

1628
01:38:28,880 --> 01:38:31,159
like I'm more and more I like to include bits

1629
01:38:31,199 --> 01:38:34,239
and pieces in my videos of me being like WHOA,

1630
01:38:34,319 --> 01:38:37,840
like it was crazy. Tons of that in recent films

1631
01:38:37,880 --> 01:38:40,600
I've been doing where there's one in Australia where they

1632
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:44,000
have a giant drone the size of me that they

1633
01:38:44,119 --> 01:38:49,479
use to scare off birds, right, since it's sort of

1634
01:38:49,479 --> 01:38:52,079
like an eco friendly way to I see ego friendly.

1635
01:38:52,119 --> 01:38:56,359
They're not culling, so that's good, you know, And it's

1636
01:38:56,399 --> 01:38:59,560
just you stand under this giant drone with speakers on

1637
01:38:59,640 --> 01:39:03,319
it an incredible weird experience.

1638
01:39:04,439 --> 01:39:04,640
Speaker 1: You know.

1639
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:07,479
Speaker 2: Bits like that in a too, where I'm really trying

1640
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:11,239
to make it just you know, enthusiasm through and through.

1641
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:15,560
Speaker 1: It's infectious. We can pick it up and when you're

1642
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:20,119
on the site and working with people, and that's just

1643
01:39:21,239 --> 01:39:25,039
what you mentioned earlier. It's a pame investment and that's

1644
01:39:25,079 --> 01:39:30,920
a big part of getting a relationship and working close

1645
01:39:31,039 --> 01:39:33,079
with people. I think that's just gold.

1646
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I said, there's no better way to learn.

1647
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:35,880
Speaker 1: You know.

1648
01:39:35,880 --> 01:39:40,319
Speaker 2: I spent two years reading reviews in aquaculture and all

1649
01:39:40,319 --> 01:39:43,520
these little all these pieces too familiar with myself with

1650
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:47,239
the biology of aquaculture. But then you get out there

1651
01:39:47,279 --> 01:39:50,439
on sites, and I mean you learn more in twenty

1652
01:39:50,439 --> 01:39:52,600
four hours than you do three months staring at a screen.

1653
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:58,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, would you see consistency is more important than talent

1654
01:39:58,960 --> 01:39:59,640
on lane?

1655
01:40:01,079 --> 01:40:06,239
Speaker 2: No, No, absolutely not. From personal experience, I can be

1656
01:40:06,319 --> 01:40:12,159
quite inconsistent with my uploads. It is definitely good to

1657
01:40:12,199 --> 01:40:17,039
be consistent. But if what you do draws people in

1658
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:23,640
and they actually they're following you and not just a

1659
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:29,319
general I like seafood, then that is far more important.

1660
01:40:30,399 --> 01:40:30,600
Speaker 1: Right.

1661
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:34,560
Speaker 2: Some of the best creators I follow may post once

1662
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:37,159
every six months or a year. There's one called h

1663
01:40:37,239 --> 01:40:40,039
bomber Guy on YouTube. He hasn't posted a YouTube video

1664
01:40:40,079 --> 01:40:42,880
in almost two years, and he's still my favorite YouTuber

1665
01:40:43,039 --> 01:40:45,800
and I will watch the next video but the moment

1666
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:48,680
it comes out, and that's because he's a talented guy.

1667
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:53,479
Speaker 1: I thought that it was all about getting the the source.

1668
01:40:53,520 --> 01:40:57,720
Will media platforms, they'll tell you that to get more

1669
01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:04,880
people follow and all this get more called the more regularly.

1670
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:08,159
Speaker 2: It's it's absolutely good. I mean to build up your metrics. Yeah,

1671
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:13,239
you know, it's I don't. I don't gain any significant

1672
01:41:13,239 --> 01:41:17,199
amount of followers when I'm not posting regularly, like right now,

1673
01:41:18,319 --> 01:41:21,760
I've just wrapped up my British Columbia series and my

1674
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:24,560
Faultlin series and my Australia one is not going to

1675
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:29,399
be ready for at least a month, so you know,

1676
01:41:29,479 --> 01:41:31,119
I'm not going to see any growth of my channels

1677
01:41:31,119 --> 01:41:36,039
in this time. But to me, that matters less than

1678
01:41:36,199 --> 01:41:40,560
are people excited when it does eventually come around. You know,

1679
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:42,520
I'd rather put the time in to do it right.

1680
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:46,960
And you know, when I first started this, I could

1681
01:41:47,039 --> 01:41:50,479
make two videos a day on a lunch break. But

1682
01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:54,079
the quality of like what I'm going for now has changed,

1683
01:41:54,880 --> 01:42:00,000
you know, and it takes takes real time does and that's.

1684
01:42:02,439 --> 01:42:06,520
Speaker 1: Gone Small not independent could eat or still compete Or

1685
01:42:06,520 --> 01:42:13,600
are the large platforms no limited by large personalities and corporations?

1686
01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:17,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like small small creators are sort

1687
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:22,000
of the lifeblood of these platforms, especially when the for

1688
01:42:22,199 --> 01:42:26,039
you page is everything people scroll or everyone what everyone's

1689
01:42:26,039 --> 01:42:31,680
looking at. It's it's how you can scroll endlessly. It's

1690
01:42:31,720 --> 01:42:35,279
because for every big creator doing big doing a big project,

1691
01:42:35,439 --> 01:42:37,560
there's a thousand other people who put stuff out every

1692
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:43,039
thirty six hours. However, right, it's I mean, I would

1693
01:42:43,079 --> 01:42:46,239
even consider myself a small creator on some platforms, right

1694
01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:51,199
TikTok I have probably closer to half a million followers there,

1695
01:42:51,239 --> 01:42:54,800
so that puts me about a mid to large creator there.

1696
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:58,720
But places like Facebook, I only have thirty forty thousand

1697
01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:01,800
followers over there. I'm new to Facebook, actually I never

1698
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:04,479
had it for a while. I'm a small creator there,

1699
01:43:05,159 --> 01:43:09,720
and I sometimes see more engagement on a Facebook post

1700
01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:14,439
than I do on a TikTok Post's the way these

1701
01:43:14,439 --> 01:43:18,199
algorithms work nowadays. It really how many followers you have

1702
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:23,000
is only an indicator of how long you've been there

1703
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:28,800
and how consistent what you've been producing has been. Not

1704
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:32,039
just in like, not necessarily are you posting every week?

1705
01:43:32,119 --> 01:43:35,760
But am I for many years now and go to

1706
01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:39,039
seafood guy and TikTok. Yeah. On Facebook, nobody knows me,

1707
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:43,399
so it's sort of building reputation. It takes time.

1708
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:52,039
Speaker 1: Because you're backroomed an interest. You've also touched on seafood

1709
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:59,560
unsustainability discussions. Do you think social media has helped or damaged,

1710
01:44:00,159 --> 01:44:03,079
like understand both seafood industries.

1711
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:05,560
Speaker 2: M it's a good question.

1712
01:44:06,039 --> 01:44:06,239
Speaker 1: You know.

1713
01:44:08,159 --> 01:44:11,079
Speaker 2: Oftentimes the core of what I do is around sustainability.

1714
01:44:11,880 --> 01:44:14,760
I often don't like to use the word sustainability because

1715
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:20,600
what does that even mean. You know, it's different everywhere,

1716
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:25,319
for everything and from every viewpoint, so it's kind of meaningless.

1717
01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:30,840
It's like all natural greats, so it has carbon in it,

1718
01:44:30,960 --> 01:44:37,680
like all food. You know, my sort of exposure to

1719
01:44:38,399 --> 01:44:42,880
sustainability online has not been good, I will say, right,

1720
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:49,880
it's what I see is not constructive. Awareness is being

1721
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:55,479
raised about real issues, and it is being bastardized into

1722
01:44:55,920 --> 01:45:00,840
quick shakunnaw monetization schemes. And subscribe to our newsletters because

1723
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:06,319
you'll he'll hear first about the atrocities of this. That

1724
01:45:06,479 --> 01:45:11,079
is not productive, and often that turns into just misinformation, right,

1725
01:45:11,279 --> 01:45:17,680
and that is incredibly destructive. By and large, has it

1726
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:22,640
helped sustainability across the board depends where you are. You

1727
01:45:22,720 --> 01:45:25,920
talk to Vancouver Island and Discovery Islands in the West

1728
01:45:25,960 --> 01:45:30,319
Coast of Canada, no social media costs them their entire

1729
01:45:30,359 --> 01:45:35,119
aquaculture sector thousands of jobs, billions of dollars, mostly in

1730
01:45:35,199 --> 01:45:39,079
first nation areas they hate it like as they should.

1731
01:45:39,119 --> 01:45:44,399
They hate that. That's the case. However, places like New Zealand,

1732
01:45:44,960 --> 01:45:49,560
social media has helped bring their brand, the New Zealand

1733
01:45:49,680 --> 01:45:54,199
King Salmon up to never before seen you know, prices

1734
01:45:54,239 --> 01:45:56,760
on the market and demand for what they do. Because

1735
01:45:56,800 --> 01:45:58,840
what they do, they built a really strong story around

1736
01:45:58,840 --> 01:46:02,840
the sustainability of it and have other people retelling that story,

1737
01:46:03,439 --> 01:46:06,039
so they would say that it's fantastic for it, right.

1738
01:46:06,079 --> 01:46:09,319
The discussions of sustainability have really been beneficial to them.

1739
01:46:10,279 --> 01:46:13,520
It is dependent on where you are on both sides

1740
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:15,880
of the spectrum there. It goes extreme both ways.

1741
01:46:18,119 --> 01:46:23,359
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, our complex industry has been reduced into simplistic

1742
01:46:23,560 --> 01:46:25,239
slogans on laid.

1743
01:46:27,520 --> 01:46:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean absolutely. I don't think that's anything new, though,

1744
01:46:31,119 --> 01:46:35,880
would you. I feel like it's happened since if you're

1745
01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:38,840
limited to you know, a few sentences in the print,

1746
01:46:39,199 --> 01:46:44,840
that's the same thing. It's with the monetization of it online.

1747
01:46:44,479 --> 01:46:48,439
It can get ugly right where it just spirals out

1748
01:46:48,439 --> 01:46:54,079
of control with quick one liners. But I don't think

1749
01:46:54,119 --> 01:46:58,239
that that's new. It's not going away anytime soon. It's

1750
01:46:58,279 --> 01:47:02,199
not something I dabble in either. I don't really. I

1751
01:47:02,239 --> 01:47:05,760
tend to push my videos as long as I can,

1752
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:11,159
which is not what the platforms recommend, but it's what

1753
01:47:11,279 --> 01:47:15,520
I need to do to cover the topics I want to,

1754
01:47:16,079 --> 01:47:17,920
So that takes precedent.

1755
01:47:20,039 --> 01:47:24,800
Speaker 1: But you're also giving your clients, your customers value for money.

1756
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:31,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends on how they view value, right. People shouldn't.

1757
01:47:32,800 --> 01:47:34,920
People shouldn't want to bring me on board if they

1758
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:41,760
want to get ten million views, because that doesn't make like, okay, great,

1759
01:47:42,239 --> 01:47:47,840
that's pretty easy to do. If you just throw the

1760
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:51,520
most shocking thing together, you can think of how does

1761
01:47:51,520 --> 01:47:52,119
that benefit you?

1762
01:47:52,239 --> 01:47:52,399
Speaker 1: Right?

1763
01:47:52,520 --> 01:47:54,279
Speaker 2: I want to work with people who are more interested

1764
01:47:54,279 --> 01:47:58,079
in how long can we get people to watch this stuff?

1765
01:47:59,199 --> 01:48:01,960
That's really the metric I'm most interested in, Right.

1766
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:02,159
Speaker 1: Is.

1767
01:48:03,560 --> 01:48:08,000
Speaker 2: You know, I'd rather have you know, twenty thousand viewers

1768
01:48:08,079 --> 01:48:10,640
that stuck around for a minute a minute and a

1769
01:48:10,680 --> 01:48:14,119
half on average than a million views on a fish

1770
01:48:14,119 --> 01:48:17,760
flopping around that was funny for two seconds. It really

1771
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:22,279
depends on what's what people's outcomes or with what they're

1772
01:48:22,279 --> 01:48:23,680
looking to get out of it. What I look to

1773
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:25,600
get out of it is is that view time?

1774
01:48:26,319 --> 01:48:26,479
Speaker 1: Right?

1775
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:28,560
Speaker 2: How long can I get people to stick around?

1776
01:48:30,159 --> 01:48:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah? But another good measure of that, JAMS is some

1777
01:48:33,720 --> 01:48:40,279
of your customers of skin your back to pull my

1778
01:48:40,359 --> 01:48:43,560
gam that's a good measure that you're doing. You're doing

1779
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:45,399
the job right, that is.

1780
01:48:45,479 --> 01:48:50,079
Speaker 2: It's it's interesting because what I do, like, let's say,

1781
01:48:50,079 --> 01:48:52,640
like I just wrapped up New Zealand six months ago

1782
01:48:53,239 --> 01:48:57,279
and I had the whole series was this is aquaculture

1783
01:48:57,359 --> 01:49:00,439
in New Zealand. I don't think I should go back

1784
01:49:00,439 --> 01:49:03,960
in the next year, you know, that wouldn't make any sense.

1785
01:49:04,119 --> 01:49:08,800
Part two should be different, bigger, bowlder, better in a

1786
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:11,359
lot of ways, but just different, and that would take

1787
01:49:11,399 --> 01:49:15,520
a lot of time, like revisit it in a year

1788
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:19,279
or two. That's how I would view that. And that's

1789
01:49:19,279 --> 01:49:23,119
typically what I do. I don't circle back on places

1790
01:49:23,159 --> 01:49:26,920
in the same year unless I'm doing some different kind

1791
01:49:26,960 --> 01:49:31,199
of work than the projects I build publicly right now.

1792
01:49:32,680 --> 01:49:36,800
But yes, I do hope to return this, especially some

1793
01:49:36,840 --> 01:49:39,399
of those and there have been some very very unique

1794
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:42,239
projects that I want to follow up on because things

1795
01:49:42,279 --> 01:49:46,079
have changed, right in just a few years.

1796
01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:52,479
Speaker 1: When you started going and getting into it, did you

1797
01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:57,680
ever do you ever think back, did you ever imagine

1798
01:49:58,720 --> 01:50:03,840
that come a day you'd be having a conversation like

1799
01:50:03,960 --> 01:50:10,279
we'd having. Just know, I wrapped up New Zealand, a

1800
01:50:10,359 --> 01:50:17,800
British Columbia about Shetland, Scotland, Australia. It's a jog going

1801
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:20,359
to be lessoned. You know.

1802
01:50:20,720 --> 01:50:25,359
Speaker 2: When I moved to Scotland, I very quickly realized that

1803
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:29,520
I didn't know where anything was in the world as

1804
01:50:29,560 --> 01:50:33,359
the ignorant American I am. So I memorized every country

1805
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:38,920
and every territory in every flag in the world pretty

1806
01:50:38,960 --> 01:50:41,159
quickly on moving to Scotland so that I could be

1807
01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:45,560
not the ignorant American in the room on the on

1808
01:50:45,760 --> 01:50:48,760
this the geography subject. And no, I mean I never

1809
01:50:49,720 --> 01:50:51,760
I never thought that this would be where it would

1810
01:50:51,760 --> 01:50:53,800
take Again. I always wanted to do something that was global.

1811
01:50:54,920 --> 01:50:57,600
Boston's a small city and you you know I did

1812
01:50:57,680 --> 01:51:02,560
twenty four years there, so twenty three year yeah, stuff

1813
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:06,279
like that. Enough time. I wanted to get out see

1814
01:51:06,319 --> 01:51:06,800
what's out there?

1815
01:51:07,960 --> 01:51:12,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? Is there room on lane anymore for balanced discussion

1816
01:51:12,760 --> 01:51:13,720
without outbridge?

1817
01:51:15,439 --> 01:51:18,000
Speaker 2: I think podcasts are actually a really good platform for that.

1818
01:51:19,159 --> 01:51:21,159
You know, you can sit down for a long long

1819
01:51:21,239 --> 01:51:23,920
time and people might actually stick around. I think it's

1820
01:51:25,239 --> 01:51:28,840
the most important thing there right is how long do

1821
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:33,119
you have of somebody's attention that's going to determine whether

1822
01:51:33,199 --> 01:51:35,319
or not you can have a nuanced and balanced conversation

1823
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:40,079
or not if you're stuck to headlines, you know, one

1824
01:51:40,159 --> 01:51:42,319
liners that are going to stick in the algorithm. No,

1825
01:51:42,640 --> 01:51:49,279
you can't have that conversation. But you know, even short

1826
01:51:49,359 --> 01:51:52,600
form video platforms like I can get a lot of

1827
01:51:52,680 --> 01:51:56,119
information into two three minutes. Right, I'm talking a script

1828
01:51:56,159 --> 01:52:01,720
here that's multiple pages long, a fast talker, so it

1829
01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:05,520
comes across quick. But you know that's a lot. And yeah,

1830
01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:08,319
you can have a you can have a balanced, a

1831
01:52:08,399 --> 01:52:10,680
nuanced discussion there in that amount of time, with the

1832
01:52:10,880 --> 01:52:14,640
right topic and the right framing. The back and forth

1833
01:52:14,840 --> 01:52:21,119
just isn't there in that medium, right. The problem with

1834
01:52:22,039 --> 01:52:26,399
that approach sometimes is I put out like a really

1835
01:52:26,479 --> 01:52:30,960
interesting balanced argument on let's say, the use of wellboats

1836
01:52:31,279 --> 01:52:33,960
in salmon farming. Right, they have their upsides, they have

1837
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:36,399
their downsides. Here's my experience having bet on half a

1838
01:52:36,439 --> 01:52:38,720
dozen in Scotland in the last three months, and then

1839
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:42,199
somebody comments, yeah, what about the seabed? So then I

1840
01:52:42,279 --> 01:52:46,479
go out onto a farm out in the island, muck

1841
01:52:47,000 --> 01:52:50,199
send down robots to go look at the seabed, take samples,

1842
01:52:50,279 --> 01:52:52,640
bring it up, make a whole video about it, and

1843
01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:55,840
then somebody's like, yeah, what about the wellboats? Right, So

1844
01:52:56,600 --> 01:53:00,399
the back and forth can be one side when it's

1845
01:53:00,520 --> 01:53:05,319
a video versus a commenter. I think the best way

1846
01:53:05,359 --> 01:53:07,439
to have those kinds of discussions is both people got

1847
01:53:07,560 --> 01:53:11,239
to be on camera, right, You've got to have a conversation.

1848
01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:14,960
If you want to have a new balanced discussion, they

1849
01:53:15,039 --> 01:53:20,840
both got to be talking. Yeah, It's something I've tried

1850
01:53:20,840 --> 01:53:24,439
to do sometimes, but unfortunately, with the content I produce,

1851
01:53:26,720 --> 01:53:28,279
my detractors are not willing.

1852
01:53:28,039 --> 01:53:34,000
Speaker 1: To do that. So that is what it is. Does anything.

1853
01:53:34,239 --> 01:53:40,680
What are you about the future of social media? Yeah?

1854
01:53:41,279 --> 01:53:47,119
Speaker 2: Absolutely right. To me, it's a medium for the dissemination

1855
01:53:47,199 --> 01:53:50,359
of information that is not what it is to a

1856
01:53:50,399 --> 01:53:54,319
lot of people, right, And it can be a dangerous

1857
01:53:54,359 --> 01:54:00,159
place for your psyche for the next generation. Right. The

1858
01:54:00,239 --> 01:54:06,560
damage that social media can have can be significant.

1859
01:54:07,079 --> 01:54:07,199
Speaker 1: Right.

1860
01:54:07,239 --> 01:54:10,239
Speaker 2: It's one of those things where I view it as

1861
01:54:10,279 --> 01:54:14,279
a tool and that can be for better or for worse.

1862
01:54:15,239 --> 01:54:17,920
And unfortunately, it seems like the money is and where

1863
01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:22,039
it's worse right now, By and large, you know, I

1864
01:54:22,079 --> 01:54:24,920
don't think that was the case five years ago, and

1865
01:54:25,079 --> 01:54:26,920
maybe five years from now it won't be the case.

1866
01:54:27,800 --> 01:54:28,199
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1867
01:54:28,399 --> 01:54:30,520
Speaker 2: Maybe it comes and goes and waves and troughs, but

1868
01:54:32,159 --> 01:54:39,920
it is not always a force for good. Yeah.

1869
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:46,199
Speaker 1: Do you think younger creators understand the emotional cost of

1870
01:54:46,479 --> 01:54:48,920
living publicly on lane? No?

1871
01:54:49,479 --> 01:54:53,760
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. It's I didn't and I wouldn't even say

1872
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:56,640
that I'm like a public figure. And I am in

1873
01:54:56,800 --> 01:55:00,600
very very niche circles about fish. That's not a public

1874
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:05,800
figure in the common sense. So no, I would say

1875
01:55:05,840 --> 01:55:10,800
that people are not. It's it changes pretty quickly. I

1876
01:55:10,800 --> 01:55:14,000
would say, I do have friends in the influential world

1877
01:55:14,039 --> 01:55:16,399
who are They have many, many millions of followers across

1878
01:55:16,520 --> 01:55:19,560
the board, right that this is a seven figure business

1879
01:55:19,600 --> 01:55:25,239
for them, and it's not all sunshine and roses, you know,

1880
01:55:26,640 --> 01:55:28,880
when you are a public like when you were that public?

1881
01:55:29,439 --> 01:55:33,920
You know, I think it depends on how public you

1882
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:38,119
want to be. I'm happy to be myself, right. I

1883
01:55:38,239 --> 01:55:42,800
am James Sibley online that anybody can find me, find

1884
01:55:42,840 --> 01:55:46,159
my LinkedIn, my email, whatever, but not anything beyond that.

1885
01:55:46,359 --> 01:55:48,720
No one knows where I live. You know, I go

1886
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:52,520
to great lengths to maintain my ability to say Okay,

1887
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:56,159
I'm turning my phone off, and that's that. That's not

1888
01:55:56,279 --> 01:55:59,119
the case for a lot of creator's paths in the

1889
01:55:59,199 --> 01:55:59,880
influencial world.

1890
01:56:00,600 --> 01:56:08,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's success on laying changed you personally, I.

1891
01:56:08,680 --> 01:56:11,439
Speaker 2: Don't think so. I wouldn't necessarily say that I found

1892
01:56:12,079 --> 01:56:16,800
I guess I have found some success online. But you know,

1893
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:20,600
it's not this sort of like Unicorn story. It works

1894
01:56:20,640 --> 01:56:23,680
for now. That's where it stands. It hasn't changed who

1895
01:56:23,720 --> 01:56:23,920
I am.

1896
01:56:24,359 --> 01:56:24,760
Speaker 1: I do this.

1897
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:29,720
Speaker 2: I do this because I for two real reasons.

1898
01:56:29,800 --> 01:56:29,920
Speaker 1: Right.

1899
01:56:29,960 --> 01:56:34,920
Speaker 2: It started because I wanted to learn more about, you know,

1900
01:56:35,920 --> 01:56:39,600
what goes on in food production at sea. It's something

1901
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:43,520
I had no idea about. And you know, selfishly that's

1902
01:56:43,520 --> 01:56:45,640
still a piece of it. I still want to get

1903
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:50,279
out there and learn these things all the time. But

1904
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:54,079
now I have the added piece of I'm starting to

1905
01:56:54,199 --> 01:57:01,960
understand everything from geopolitics to you know, production and manufacturing

1906
01:57:02,319 --> 01:57:05,560
and processing in different regions of the world, and how

1907
01:57:05,640 --> 01:57:11,279
all of this works with major importers, major exporters. That

1908
01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:15,039
that is kind of coming into into it more and

1909
01:57:15,159 --> 01:57:18,000
more these days, where it's I'm able to view it

1910
01:57:18,119 --> 01:57:20,720
beyond just this is a learning experience for me. This

1911
01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:24,159
is a sort of another piece in that puzzle that

1912
01:57:24,239 --> 01:57:29,039
I'm building. Right, I'll never understand all of all of aquaculture,

1913
01:57:29,079 --> 01:57:32,960
all of seafood, absolutely not, nobody can. But I'd like

1914
01:57:33,000 --> 01:57:35,279
to get as close as I can, as close as

1915
01:57:35,319 --> 01:57:36,079
e when the possible.

1916
01:57:37,359 --> 01:57:46,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what I'm gonna ask you with that, where

1917
01:57:46,479 --> 01:57:52,479
do you see your journey going next? It's a good question.

1918
01:57:52,600 --> 01:58:02,600
Speaker 2: Hopefully somewhere warm now I am. I'm really enjoying this

1919
01:58:04,199 --> 01:58:07,600
almost more more of this storytelling side where I, yes,

1920
01:58:07,720 --> 01:58:10,600
I do the aquaculture and the you know, this is

1921
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:14,479
how production happens, and this is why this is uniquely

1922
01:58:15,840 --> 01:58:18,680
you know, successful in this area. And it's this strategy

1923
01:58:18,720 --> 01:58:22,560
that like the technical pieces, Yes, I it's something I've

1924
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:24,800
grown accustomed to doing. I've done it eight hundred times.

1925
01:58:25,640 --> 01:58:29,439
What I'm really enjoying now is incorporating that into more

1926
01:58:29,479 --> 01:58:36,279
of a story about place and people, right you know, Australia.

1927
01:58:36,359 --> 01:58:39,479
I I mean, very very clear efforts to get out

1928
01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:42,720
of the film wilderness scenery. Have have cookouts on the

1929
01:58:42,760 --> 01:58:45,159
barbie where we brought out vegamites and they gave me

1930
01:58:45,239 --> 01:58:48,319
a full spoonful and it was terrible, and really trying

1931
01:58:48,399 --> 01:58:55,439
to ground, the innovation and the successes of these ultimately

1932
01:58:55,479 --> 01:58:58,399
farmers in the people in who they are and the

1933
01:58:58,439 --> 01:59:01,720
place that they're from. Kind of building a bit beyond

1934
01:59:01,760 --> 01:59:05,399
the technical into more of an emotional piece of it

1935
01:59:05,479 --> 01:59:09,159
as well. That's something I'm building into more and more

1936
01:59:09,239 --> 01:59:14,119
this year. It's it should make for easier viewing across

1937
01:59:14,159 --> 01:59:18,199
the board and hopefully you know it's not you know,

1938
01:59:18,520 --> 01:59:20,520
you walk away from it, maybe having a laugh or

1939
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:24,000
something too, as well as learning about these pieces along

1940
01:59:24,039 --> 01:59:24,520
the way.

1941
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:32,000
Speaker 1: Your engine your way closer than with the Aussies as well.

1942
01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:34,720
When you talk about Barbie.

1943
01:59:36,000 --> 01:59:37,680
Speaker 2: Well that's what it was. We had We had a

1944
01:59:38,720 --> 01:59:42,359
we had prawns in the barbie. Many it's a bear

1945
01:59:42,560 --> 01:59:45,439
on the barbie can go Barbie.

1946
01:59:45,600 --> 01:59:50,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great scene in Australia through another pron

1947
01:59:50,640 --> 01:59:51,279
of the Barbie.

1948
01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:58,119
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, just you know, having if if I'm able

1949
01:59:58,199 --> 02:00:01,119
to build in that seem the sense of having fun

1950
02:00:01,199 --> 02:00:05,920
with it in a more approachable way, then sometimes I

1951
02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:08,720
can bring in pieces that aren't aquaculture. I want to

1952
02:00:08,840 --> 02:00:12,000
expand more into fisheries, even other forms of food production.

1953
02:00:12,199 --> 02:00:16,359
Right when I was in for instance, New Zealand filming,

1954
02:00:17,039 --> 02:00:20,479
I did mussels, oysters and salmon, all in the Marlborough Sound.

1955
02:00:20,479 --> 02:00:24,000
It's a very famous part of the South Island of

1956
02:00:24,079 --> 02:00:28,720
New Zealand also and most critically famous for its wine. Right,

1957
02:00:28,840 --> 02:00:33,000
they had huge, sprawling vineyards that I didn't touch because

1958
02:00:33,039 --> 02:00:36,159
that wasn't in scope. It's not what I do. I

1959
02:00:36,199 --> 02:00:38,239
don't think there's a reason that I can't bring pieces

1960
02:00:38,319 --> 02:00:40,560
like that in when when we're talking about food production

1961
02:00:40,680 --> 02:00:44,760
and food security and coastal communities, right, it is not

1962
02:00:45,000 --> 02:00:48,079
just one piece, it's all of them, right, especially.

1963
02:00:47,720 --> 02:00:48,119
Speaker 1: When it's.

1964
02:00:49,920 --> 02:00:52,800
Speaker 2: Sort of large scale food production like this. It's never

1965
02:00:53,039 --> 02:00:53,920
just in evacuum.

1966
02:00:55,880 --> 02:01:01,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you could see one thing about social

1967
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:04,920
media tomato, what would be feeling?

1968
02:01:06,359 --> 02:01:13,039
Speaker 2: That's a great question, you know. I really wish that

1969
02:01:13,159 --> 02:01:16,319
we could bring back some of the I don't know

1970
02:01:16,359 --> 02:01:19,000
if I'm just reminiscing on old times or whatnot, but

1971
02:01:20,399 --> 02:01:23,279
you focus on the for you page I think has

1972
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:28,159
been detrimental overall. I'd love to see overturn, not in fult,

1973
02:01:28,359 --> 02:01:31,840
but in part to a place where you choose the

1974
02:01:32,000 --> 02:01:34,479
topics and the people you want to see when you

1975
02:01:34,600 --> 02:01:37,600
open these apps, right, it's your friends, it's your family,

1976
02:01:37,680 --> 02:01:41,199
but it's also creators you follow topics are interested in,

1977
02:01:41,600 --> 02:01:44,359
and it's not just an algorithm feeding you. The fact

1978
02:01:44,399 --> 02:01:47,640
that it's called a fee isn't that kind of dystopian?

1979
02:01:48,319 --> 02:01:48,479
Speaker 1: You know?

1980
02:01:49,800 --> 02:01:52,640
Speaker 2: I don't want to just be fed things staring at pixels.

1981
02:01:53,319 --> 02:01:55,000
I want it to be curated, yes.

1982
02:01:54,920 --> 02:01:55,399
Speaker 1: But to.

1983
02:01:57,840 --> 02:02:03,039
Speaker 2: Not to that the nth degree, because then I wouldn't

1984
02:02:03,079 --> 02:02:07,439
have to fight as hard to stand out amongst everybody

1985
02:02:07,479 --> 02:02:09,640
trying to make a quick buck and all the sensationalism,

1986
02:02:09,960 --> 02:02:13,039
because things would be split into categories and that is

1987
02:02:13,239 --> 02:02:17,159
actually coming into fruition. And so for instance, on TikTok,

1988
02:02:17,600 --> 02:02:21,600
I am in the STEM program, you know, Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics,

1989
02:02:23,439 --> 02:02:25,560
which means I'm a science creator. They put me in

1990
02:02:25,600 --> 02:02:29,600
my own category, which is pretty cool, right, so my

1991
02:02:29,720 --> 02:02:32,560
stuff people can choose. I either want to just see

1992
02:02:32,560 --> 02:02:35,119
what the world has to offer me, or I want

1993
02:02:35,199 --> 02:02:39,680
to only look at things that may be educational, like

1994
02:02:39,840 --> 02:02:43,239
I maybe that's a healthier thing to do. That's the concept,

1995
02:02:44,079 --> 02:02:46,800
and I'm a creator for that. I'd love to see

1996
02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:50,640
that across the board, you know. I think that would

1997
02:02:50,640 --> 02:02:54,359
be a good way to bring bring rain in some

1998
02:02:54,479 --> 02:02:57,159
of the problems that social media's having, you know, addictions

1999
02:02:57,199 --> 02:03:02,439
to our phones, anxiety and depression, just a sort of

2000
02:03:02,720 --> 02:03:06,600
rolling envy that never goes away. Those sorts of issues

2001
02:03:06,640 --> 02:03:08,239
can be curved with programs like that.

2002
02:03:10,479 --> 02:03:15,039
Speaker 1: Okay, a good back to the different parts of the

2003
02:03:15,079 --> 02:03:19,159
world you've been an Do you have any favorites?

2004
02:03:20,720 --> 02:03:21,520
Speaker 2: That's a great question.

2005
02:03:23,239 --> 02:03:23,439
Speaker 1: You know.

2006
02:03:26,000 --> 02:03:29,520
Speaker 2: Everywhere is different, but that that's kind of a boring answer,

2007
02:03:29,680 --> 02:03:35,199
isn't that some of the most some of the most interesting.

2008
02:03:35,279 --> 02:03:37,760
I can give you. Well, Scotland holds a special place

2009
02:03:37,800 --> 02:03:41,680
in my heart because my grandmother's from Aberdeen and she

2010
02:03:42,039 --> 02:03:44,079
was like that was her whole identity.

2011
02:03:44,199 --> 02:03:45,079
Speaker 1: It was pretty cool.

2012
02:03:46,680 --> 02:03:49,840
Speaker 2: And I lived there for a year and I very

2013
02:03:50,239 --> 02:03:56,520
very nearly stayed, you know, fifty one forty nine was

2014
02:03:56,600 --> 02:03:58,880
the only reason I came back when I weighed the

2015
02:03:58,960 --> 02:04:03,119
pros and cons. So I love Scotland. But there's there

2016
02:04:03,159 --> 02:04:06,520
have been some interesting places I've visited for aquaculture, right

2017
02:04:07,520 --> 02:04:10,199
I ended up. I went to Riod, Saudi Arabia for

2018
02:04:10,359 --> 02:04:14,920
three days, didn't sleep a wink, just delusionally up for

2019
02:04:15,119 --> 02:04:18,880
the whole time, running around the city. That was pretty interesting.

2020
02:04:19,479 --> 02:04:24,960
I knew nothing about going into that. That was something different.

2021
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:28,840
The Falklands as well, are quite an interesting place to

2022
02:04:29,079 --> 02:04:32,840
film in, not just because of the what I had

2023
02:04:32,880 --> 02:04:35,079
to do. I had to be more creative, right there's

2024
02:04:35,119 --> 02:04:39,119
no farms there, but also because it's basically it's a

2025
02:04:39,159 --> 02:04:43,479
military island, right, so I couldn't just put the drone up.

2026
02:04:43,640 --> 02:04:45,279
I had to call it a military base and see

2027
02:04:45,279 --> 02:04:47,279
if there's like fighter jets that are going to come

2028
02:04:47,359 --> 02:04:51,399
through anytime soon, so that I'm not hitting planes with

2029
02:04:51,520 --> 02:04:54,880
my drone. That was a very very odd place to

2030
02:04:54,960 --> 02:04:58,600
film in that sense. And they had King penguins just

2031
02:04:58,680 --> 02:05:02,680
like walking around town. Nowhere else in the world have

2032
02:05:02,760 --> 02:05:08,800
I seen that. That was the Yeah, I thought it'd

2033
02:05:08,840 --> 02:05:10,520
be like a challenge to find them. I was prepared

2034
02:05:10,560 --> 02:05:13,560
to like go Trekking, get the four wheeler out, go

2035
02:05:13,640 --> 02:05:17,800
look for penguins. Now they're just in town, so that's wonderful.

2036
02:05:17,920 --> 02:05:20,880
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I mean.

2037
02:05:21,000 --> 02:05:25,720
Speaker 2: Everyone's different, and again, Scotland is a unique place. Not

2038
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:28,560
to add to the list, But you know, I bashed

2039
02:05:28,640 --> 02:05:31,279
in the US for a lot of reasons in recent years.

2040
02:05:31,720 --> 02:05:36,079
But you know, I bashed on American seafood and probably

2041
02:05:36,159 --> 02:05:39,560
too much, and it's something I'm trying to change. I

2042
02:05:39,680 --> 02:05:44,520
want to work more with stateside farmers and fishers. I've

2043
02:05:44,560 --> 02:05:46,600
been actively trying to find ways to do that. It is.

2044
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:49,319
It is just a terrible time for it. You know,

2045
02:05:50,079 --> 02:05:53,000
Noah has been stripped of thousands and thousands of employees.

2046
02:05:53,039 --> 02:05:57,279
They don't have budgets for this kind of stuff. You know,

2047
02:05:57,359 --> 02:05:59,359
the universities I would want to work with in places

2048
02:05:59,399 --> 02:06:04,279
like Hawaii, same thing. That doesn't mean it's impossible. So

2049
02:06:04,399 --> 02:06:06,600
there are some projects on the horizon in the US

2050
02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:08,880
that I'm quite excited about, and I haven't done one

2051
02:06:08,920 --> 02:06:11,920
in years, So I'm hoping that this kind of opens

2052
02:06:12,000 --> 02:06:14,000
up some more domestic projects for me there.

2053
02:06:15,239 --> 02:06:20,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, good buck to the seafood from your from what

2054
02:06:20,760 --> 02:06:26,239
you have experienced. When you look ahead twenty years, do

2055
02:06:26,359 --> 02:06:32,239
you think seafood sector will rely more on combinations of

2056
02:06:32,359 --> 02:06:37,199
wild captured, raunching and d aqua culture rather than one

2057
02:06:37,319 --> 02:06:40,359
dominant system. Yeah.

2058
02:06:40,399 --> 02:06:42,920
Speaker 2: I mean when people ask me, I've been asked you

2059
02:06:43,039 --> 02:06:47,159
think a culture is the solution. No, it's not. It's

2060
02:06:47,199 --> 02:06:51,520
wild capture solution, no ranching, now, land based. None of

2061
02:06:51,600 --> 02:06:54,439
it is like a silver bullet, right. I think the

2062
02:06:54,520 --> 02:06:56,479
beauty of it is that we can do all of it,

2063
02:06:57,000 --> 02:07:01,840
and that balance will probably get us enough healthy seafood

2064
02:07:02,239 --> 02:07:07,479
to feed the world. We're already doing it, right. This

2065
02:07:07,520 --> 02:07:10,439
split between aquaculture and wild captures about fifty to fifty.

2066
02:07:11,239 --> 02:07:15,119
And you know, I think one of the issues there

2067
02:07:15,199 --> 02:07:18,880
is it's dominated by certain regions for aquaculture and by

2068
02:07:18,920 --> 02:07:22,119
fisheries for other If we can kind of build a

2069
02:07:22,199 --> 02:07:26,760
more inclusive system, right, if there's no reason that fishers

2070
02:07:26,800 --> 02:07:30,640
and aquaculturists can't really be directly involved with each other.

2071
02:07:30,720 --> 02:07:33,439
They already are in terms of raw materials. It's just

2072
02:07:33,560 --> 02:07:37,399
a matter of public perception and business modeling that prevents

2073
02:07:37,439 --> 02:07:38,079
it in some ways.

2074
02:07:39,399 --> 02:07:46,439
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, no, vaguely, James, I would ask, after everything

2075
02:07:46,560 --> 02:07:52,600
you've experienced on laid the success, criticism, pressure, and opportunities,

2076
02:07:53,239 --> 02:07:56,800
what advice would you give somebody trying to build something

2077
02:07:57,479 --> 02:08:00,319
meaningful in today's digital world.

2078
02:08:01,239 --> 02:08:05,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a scary, chaotic world out there.

2079
02:08:05,560 --> 02:08:10,039
But I would say, if you want to build something online,

2080
02:08:10,159 --> 02:08:12,000
something like what I've done right where this is now

2081
02:08:12,079 --> 02:08:15,439
what I do, and I wouldn't change it, right, do

2082
02:08:15,560 --> 02:08:17,720
it because you love it, not because you want to

2083
02:08:17,720 --> 02:08:19,920
make videos. You want to grow an audience, not because

2084
02:08:19,920 --> 02:08:23,399
you want to hit metrics. You should be okay with

2085
02:08:23,560 --> 02:08:28,000
doing with making videos, committing time to this if nobody's

2086
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:31,720
going to watch it, because that's the reality when you start,

2087
02:08:31,960 --> 02:08:35,279
that's going to happen, and you should be okay with that.

2088
02:08:35,439 --> 02:08:37,199
You should be proud of what you do simply because

2089
02:08:37,199 --> 02:08:39,920
you've done it, you know, just like any other hobby.

2090
02:08:40,439 --> 02:08:43,880
That's the best way to start with this stuff because

2091
02:08:43,880 --> 02:08:46,960
if you seek viewership, fame, money and all that with

2092
02:08:47,039 --> 02:08:50,159
this kind of stuff, it's not going to happen because

2093
02:08:50,159 --> 02:08:53,439
you will move on. It is far. It's much better

2094
02:08:53,560 --> 02:08:55,720
go get a job than it is to pursue this path.

2095
02:08:55,880 --> 02:08:57,520
That's what you're out if that's what your goal is.

2096
02:08:59,000 --> 02:09:02,359
But you know, if you are looking for a creative outlet,

2097
02:09:02,760 --> 02:09:05,720
and if you think that what you have to show

2098
02:09:05,800 --> 02:09:10,079
hasn't been shown before, by all means, give it a shot.

2099
02:09:10,239 --> 02:09:11,840
Put real time into this, see what you can do.

2100
02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:12,399
You never know.

2101
02:09:15,880 --> 02:09:19,840
Speaker 1: Good advice. Thank you very much, Jim's I really appreciate

2102
02:09:20,000 --> 02:09:25,640
the chat and pow as we would say over here,

2103
02:09:25,880 --> 02:09:29,680
power to your elbow and good luck for your future.

2104
02:09:30,319 --> 02:09:31,880
Speaker 2: But I'm going to say catch on the flip side,

2105
02:09:32,119 --> 02:09:34,359
I feel that feels pretty Bostonian released