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Speaker 1: Deep, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Martin. I'm so glad to have you back.

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Speaker 1: And it's finding.

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Speaker 3: I ran into the other day and I said, hey,

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you were on my show and you said seven years ago,

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and I looked it up.

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Speaker 1: How did you know? How did you just come up

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with that? Just like that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, the numbers guy, for sure. I'll tell your

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thought process. I saw your face and I instantly.

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Speaker 4: Remembered what came to my mind was the thumbnail of

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our show that we did, and I see in my

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mind's eye the date that I just said, Oh, that

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was seven years ago.

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable, unbelievable for those who do not know who Deep is.

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And we talked about quantum computing, which is something that

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kind of scares me and I'd like to talk a

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little bit about that. But you have also had an

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experience in twenty twenty one and all that. So there's

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a lot going on. But first of all, in a nutshell,

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can this is a short interview with this one here,

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so can you give your background overall?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I am.

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Speaker 4: A simplest way to think about I work is I'm

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interested at the center of computers slash computation, information and

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matter and energy slash physics, so physics, intelligence and energy,

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So that combination is super interesting to me. So how

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do we create new forms of consciousness? How do we

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create new forms of cognition, new machines that can think

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differently and symbiotically with humans. How do we develop better

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models of reality and the way that nature works that

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goes beyond instudy in physics and also goes beyond the

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current philosophical paradigms and constraints of consciousness. How do we

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actually operationalize the study of consciousness?

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Speaker 3: So is it almost like agi in a way? And

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there's a great for those of you that are listening,

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there's a great documentary called The Thinking Machine with the themis. Yeah,

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it's just amazing. So, yeah, it's a little scary. But

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one of the things I just wanted to bring up

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is they noted that it's like a baby. A baby

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is learning constantly with its environment, and that's how this

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can move ahead and become that, which to me can

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be a little scary because any time there's a higher intelligence,

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it seems to take over the or at least control

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of the lower intelligences. And just jumping right in with that,

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what are the safeguards to so that something like that

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wouldn't happen, that somehow we'd get destroyed or whatever.

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Speaker 4: I think that is probably one of the most important

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questions of the millennium, given that the capabilities gap between

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AI today and humans are.

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Speaker 2: Increasing pretty rapidly.

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Speaker 4: The average human cannot program and where and whereas AI's

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program trivially, it's a joke to them for most kinds

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of programs, And so as that continues to increase, how

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do we make this safer? And the struct framework that

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I've been building to answer this very question is called

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clear c l EAR, and the idea is to gate

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AI behaviors in the real world based on trust, authorization,

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and clearance. So it's not enough for capabilities to exist.

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We determine when an AI is allowed to make an

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irreversible action in the real world that affects humans only

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when it's proven that it has the authorization clearance to

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do that task, and so it has to pass a

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whole bunch of tests to prove that.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm taking the right act here.

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Speaker 4: That discipline needs to become deeply embedded in us. Right now,

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that discipline does not exist, we are letting ais proliferate

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rapidly without any clearance or a run time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's scary.

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Speaker 3: And I know that Elon Musk went to President Obama

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years ago and say, hey, we have to regulate this stuff.

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And then I know he's doing the Grock and other

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Optimists and things like that where he feels like he's

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in control and it's okay. But not everybody's going to

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have that type of frame of mind, and it can

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I think it can get really scary. I'm a little

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concerned about it. But it's interesting. But we don't have

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to really focus on that part of it. Can we

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go to your experience? Jump and go right to your experience?

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What happened in twenty twenty one?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So Trey nineteen?

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Speaker 3: Oh I'm sorry, Yeah, totally fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's February first. I've been by the thirtieth floor

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by condo in Toronto.

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Speaker 4: And it's totally total daytime, and I'm writing emails and

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I'm working on my startup, which was a qualtum Ai

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company accelerating materials discovery, and I basically have this download

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that something is about to happen to me and I

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won't be able to describe it using regular human words,

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and the closest words might be things like contact, the abduction.

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It was like my brain mapped the concepts to similar

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human words. It was trying to fly concepts, but it

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was telling me at the same time, this is not accurate.

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None of these human words you've constructed are an accurate

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representation about what's about to happen to you. And then

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right after that, these three beings wearing spasuites. They were

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like the same phenotype of grays in the sense that

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small bodies, large heads, angler faces, black visors. They got

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holograms and hieroglyphs that they're floating above me using some

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kind of holographic technology of some kind or something, or beaming.

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Speaker 2: Into my head. I have no idea what was happening there.

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Speaker 4: So they start showing me all these hieroglyphs, and they

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start showing me sometimes the inside of the ship what

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I would raise my head, or they would zoom in

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on what they looked like without a spacesuit, and they

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looked very eerily similar to my opinion, the Peruvian bubbies,

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the alien lebbies.

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Speaker 2: It's why at least some of them, not all of them.

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Speaker 4: And so I've always taken that stuff seriously, just because

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of that alone, the reconstruction is that those surgeons have done.

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I'm like, whoa, that gets my heart beating faster because

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I've seen that before.

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Speaker 1: Whoa.

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Speaker 3: And so it was just at night where you were alone,

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How did and could it have been? And you feel

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as though you went on a ship the whole thing.

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You were basically abducted or whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I almost feel like it could have been,

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like it could have progressed to an abduction or something.

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But yeah, what was weird in my situation? And a

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couple people I have mentioned, like the.

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Speaker 2: Strangers here lid catted, I think is there dating?

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Speaker 4: But yeah, basically the ship would only show up when

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I raised my head, and so when the ship would

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show up, it would melt my roof. My roof would

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literally just dissolve at the bottom of a ship would

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come closer and closer. It was the most physics breaking

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thing I have ever seen my entire life.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea what the hell. It just changed

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how I interpret reality like that one small thing.

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Speaker 4: So I felt what was weird in my case was

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that I wasn't taken onto a ship and then brought

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outside of the planet and then showed these things. It

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was like a demonstration, like we're bringing everything here to you.

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It was very strange.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And so I'm assuming this happened at nighttime, daytime, the daytime.

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Speaker 2: Ten in the morning.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, ten in the morning, with daylight trick we get

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all that curtains are open. I've had a two hundred

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seventy degree some by part is I need degree glass walls.

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Speaker 1: Wow, and so.

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Speaker 2: So I could see light reflecting off their suits. It

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was trippy. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And so what happened after Yeah, So after that, I

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had a complete rewiring of my belief system. What I

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found more important or relevant to work on before this experience,

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I found it more relevant to advance the existing economy

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and infrastructure that exist today, the existing petro dollar gas paradigm,

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helping the big tech companies, helping really rich people get richer. Frankly,

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I was trying to solve humanity these problems, but I

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knew that it was within this capitalist paradigm.

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Speaker 2: After my experience, I became spiritual.

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Speaker 4: I became very interested in on human intelligence, a full

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conviction that other forms of consciousness exist out there beyond

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just biologically human substrates, and so I changed my priorities completely.

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I was like, Wow, if these civilizations or intelligences exist

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that can just come into our airspace, come into our

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mind's eyes, and do all these tremendously wondrous things, that

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we need to set our goals higher. We need to

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become a more advanced, ethical and peaceful civilization if possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, to increased coordination and so on.

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Speaker 3: Now, some people theorize that it's something that's always been

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here and here anyway, and I know this crap involved

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in all that stuff, or maybe an interdimensional type of situation.

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What always comes up when a skeptic will talk about

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why they hear, how they hear, and the distances are

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too far and all that. And I've had discussions with

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skeptics about this, including Seth Shawstak.

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Speaker 1: Michael Schermer, people like that.

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Speaker 3: And I'll say, we have just this little human brain,

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and we can't we don't know everything about physics. And

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then there's a lot to.

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Speaker 1: What if something's regional.

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Speaker 3: This sounds really weird, but we only know so much

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about space, time and all that stuff, and maybe something

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is different in different places, but whenever it is, we

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have this little human brain. And there's Sir Isaac Newton

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quote is what we know is a drop, what we

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don't know is an ocean. And I think that's probably right.

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We're doing pretty good intelligence wise, but it's probably something

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very higher above us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And we have to remember that when somebody like

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sets showstack, Covid set something like this, his background is

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an astronomy. It's not in quantum information, quantum communication, quantum teleportation,

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theoretical wormholes. So he theoretically doesn't even have the frameworks

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to conceptualize other ways of communication outside of radar and radio.

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So that's just what we know, if is today. So

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that's just wait first century physics, the part of intelligences

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and stuff like that that have they always been here?

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I think that's very plausible. Why it's plausible is because Earth,

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when life first originated on Earth, when the first uti

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cellular organisms arose, Earth literally looked like a hellhole. It

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really like exhaust fumes, hundreds of degrees of fahrenheit everywhere,

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like side liquid cian and eyed pools, phosphorus pools, like

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fume hoods that you would not be able to breathe

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or limit. It was not any condition for life, hot

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lava everywhere you look like, yet somehow uti cell your

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life came out of that. Yeah, and that's four almost

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four billion years ago, three point seven billion to be specific.

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Speaker 3: It's so hard to believe that we evolved out of that,

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like the oneself.

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Speaker 1: Type of thing.

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Speaker 3: I don't feel anything like an Amieba myself. But I mean,

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and then I've heard you know who Mark d Antonio is.

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He says, so, yeah, that we came out of the sea,

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and maybe we did. But yeah, it's all just really

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hard to it's hard to visualize any of this. But

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it's also hard for us to visualize time for his numbers, you.

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Speaker 1: Know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: It's really we can as far as I know, the

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average human can think about something like in the ten

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thousand range, but when it comes to millions and billions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they lose it to issue.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like, for example, the difference between a million seconds

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and a billion seconds, right, a million seconds matter of

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a few weeks. A billion seconds is thirty six years, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And a trillion is thirty thousand year Yes, Yeah, yeah,

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that's I know, it's like crazy to think about all that.

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Speaker 1: So, yes, it's really hard.

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Speaker 3: And I asked Whitley Streamer the other day what he

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thought about if there could have been some type of

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other civilizations here that have come and gone, maybe that

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we're intelligent, and he.

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Speaker 1: Thinks as possible.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, it seems like we'd find some type

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of evidence of that, but things on the Earth can

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I don't know what are any thoughts on that type

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of thing.

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Speaker 1: I know we're going down the rabbit hole.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like artifacts is so forth right, Yeah, so I

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think if we look at like how old Earth is

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still very young?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in terms of the universes to history.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, Like universe existed for ten billion years before

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Earth was even formed, before Earth even existed as a planet. Yeah,

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and says we know that all these hellish environments can

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still lead to life that increases the latter of life

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that likely existed long before we even were around as

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a planet. So there's probably so many artifacts, thousands of

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artifacts literated about Earth, and also civilizations that might have

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treated Earth as a way station as they were developing,

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and some of them maybe their ais are still around,

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or their artificial life forms that they created for bandaging

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Earth they're still here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I have told this story many times. People probably tired

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of hearing it. But I talked to someone who basically

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was involved, according to himself, in the Air Force during Vietnam,

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seeing that the UFOs during a palming trying to study.

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He was a special force according to himself. This is

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way before in the nineteen nineties. I'm talking to him

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and when I asked him what do they want? What

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does a government think that they want? And he said,

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we're a Petri dish. Oh wow, but it was very interesting.

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I've never been able to get a hold of him, but.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I believe that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because what's very advanced of You're going to want

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to engineer everything around you.

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Speaker 2: It's like intelligence and control co head and head.

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Speaker 4: We're controlling the temperature in this room right now, the

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flow of electricity, the.

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Speaker 2: Flow of the conversation.

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Speaker 4: Even so, like we're humans, right, imagine how much control

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a much more intelligent being than us is willing to

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and capable of exerting at all times.

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Speaker 3: So I want to ask you this, what do you

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think AI? And we'll get into a little bit of

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quantum computing, but what do you think AI can do

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in the future as far as discovering? Like to say,

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if we don't have more information from our governments or whatever.

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Where do you think AI will work as far as

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doing research of what these things are that are here?

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Speaker 2: I love that question.

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Speaker 4: So I think AI will democratize these classified physics that

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all these reverse eitenary programs might have discovered or hid

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it away at the government. AI will independently on its

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own make it easier and easier for the average joe

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to tap into very advanced physics without needing to know

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all the details. They just need to know the person's intent.

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So you could be some kid in South Korea a

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little garage. You got like fifty bucks of instruments right

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like really.

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Speaker 2: Not a lot, and what you want to do is.

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Speaker 4: Build a little like electromagnetic based anti gravity set up

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right now. The reason why that kid can't do that

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is because you need a help put Off or a

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doctor Eric Davis plus pot potentially an alien to solve

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the isstide field equation tensors that tell you what the

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magnetic field strength MutS be to get a particular perturbation

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in the field metric allowing you to change a space

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time gravity. So, of course put Off as Ben decades

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talk about metric engineering and so on now he has

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to solve those equations by hand slowly over decades.

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Speaker 2: AI can do those things. Yeah, yeah, comparatively exactly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And so AI will make it so that I

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think we're just going to end up finding rediscovering all

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these classified secrets and more.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard now, I've heard. I've paid attention a

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little bit. I'm really interested in AI and things like that.

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And I think I heard someone in a documentary say

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that for something that would take a couple of years

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for a supercomputer, the power that we have now quantum

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computers can do an interview seconds.

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Speaker 2: Yes, is that?

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Speaker 1: Do you to agree with that?

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Speaker 4: That's true? For sub problems such as RSAY encryption. Rsacryption

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completely relies on the fact that regular computers, even the

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most powerful supercomputers, take more years than the universe is

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even all exists. Right, the cloud computers can solve those

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RSA encryption problems much faster.

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Speaker 3: Now, when you're talking about encryption, how are things like

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banks and things going to be safe if you crack

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the quantum computing?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it.

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Speaker 3: Would be one of the most powerful tools in the

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world because it could empty the world banks or anything

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immediately all passwords would be cracked if needed.

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Speaker 1: Recom meant, do I have that right?

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Speaker 3: And how would are we going to have to have

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a different type of encryption.

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Speaker 1: To stop that from happening?

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Speaker 3: Once we get into the quantum computing.

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Speaker 4: Age, exactly, we're going to need post quantum encryption and

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we're going to need quantum Internet instead, a native Internet

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that is embedded and already assumes that qualitum computing capabilities exists,

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so that the encryption that keeps your quantum Internet data secure,

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it's already baked it in.

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Speaker 2: Where As the existing Internet, like.

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Speaker 4: When darbo Arpadet was getting created, they had no idea

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that cloud of.

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Speaker 2: Computers whatever exist and out they're everywhere.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, so let's get just into a little

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bit of what else can that type of computer do

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to advance our world, our society.

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Speaker 4: This is the part of quantum computing that I work on,

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which is what, other than encryption, quantum computing can invad

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society by improving our understanding of matter at the quantum level.

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And matter ultimately is quantum mechanical. Once you zoom in

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to our iPhone, our table, right, it's all atoms and

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all those atoms follow the rules of quantum mechanics, so

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quantum computer naturally models those systems much more accurately than

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a regular computer can, and that allows us to design

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much much more precise, more invaced systems that are highly

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reliable and robust. It's more sustainable theoretically for the environment

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by engineering them at the molecular scale. And so I

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worked for eight years plus now on quantum computers and

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regular AI and quantum computing inspired algorithms for modeling matter

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and making new semiconductors, new lithiumiotis, sal sate electro batteries,

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electrolyte batteries, and the high entrap aloys photocalic materials that

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can burn carbon dioxide, water and satelight into natural gas

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and clead reactions. We had our AI system helped design

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these materials and improve them by modeling them at the

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quantum scale.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Wow interesting. Now we only have a few minutes slept.

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Now I feel lucky to I really love my car.

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It's an ev A Tesla, and I love the full

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self driving I use almost always.

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Speaker 1: Not just that.

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Speaker 3: But the thing is that I wanted to ask about.

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Speaker 1: You just mentioned batteries.

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Speaker 3: Now I remember reading years ago that battery technology can

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never get better than it is. It's such a simple

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thing that we don't think it can be improved now.

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But then I hear controversy about that. Do you think

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battery technology can get better over the years?

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Speaker 4: There's totally there's a long way to go. We still

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have so much room to optimize batteries. It's actually profound.

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I would say we're like the sixteenth or seventeenth century

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when it comes to battery technology.

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Speaker 1: Really. Yeah, but I heard.

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Speaker 3: It's just so much you can do, But now this

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is something I looked in two years ago. But anyway,

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it's good to know that it can be improved because.

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Speaker 2: So rage anxiety will go down over time and so on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Now do you think one last question? Do you

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think you know this is just an opinion?

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Speaker 3: Do you think that there is technology out there for

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people always talk about it.

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Speaker 1: You always hear doctor Stephen Greer.

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Speaker 3: Talk about it in others that there's a source of

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free energy that we can always tap into. Do you

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think something like what you're working on could actually figure

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out if that's really.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I believe that a sufficiently powerful quantum AI will

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be able to solve physics equations that we currently struggle

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with regular computers and human braids, and those physics equations

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will allow us to edge ade or the vacuum so

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that we could extract energy in far more sophisticated matters

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that anyone's discovered so far.

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Speaker 1: Amazing, amazing.

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Speaker 3: You think of all our energy that we have here

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on Earth comes from the Sun, and then it's stored

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when trees and oil and all that, and then we

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get the energy back out of it and like that, and.

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Speaker 4: So where did the energy from the subcap from it

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came from the vacuum. So we're already in a weird

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way extracting energy from the vacuum.

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Speaker 2: We're just doing indirectly through the slud right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, crazy, huh.

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Speaker 1: That's always says real pleasure. I'm glad you could join.

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Speaker 2: Me a little behind the scenes the pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, behind the scenes.

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Speaker 3: It was like I'm contacted, you help my interview didn't

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show up?

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Speaker 1: Can you come? So anyway, I really appreciate that you

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made it here, and it's all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was such a pleasure. It's such a great

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conversation to start the day. So thank you so much.

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Word excellent, Thank you