Speaker 1: Deep, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Martin. I'm so glad to have you back.
Speaker 1: And it's finding.
Speaker 3: I ran into the other day and I said, hey,
you were on my show and you said seven years ago,
and I looked it up.
Speaker 1: How did you know? How did you just come up
with that? Just like that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, the numbers guy, for sure. I'll tell your
thought process. I saw your face and I instantly.
Speaker 4: Remembered what came to my mind was the thumbnail of
our show that we did, and I see in my
mind's eye the date that I just said, Oh, that
was seven years ago.
Speaker 3: Unbelievable, unbelievable for those who do not know who Deep is.
And we talked about quantum computing, which is something that
kind of scares me and I'd like to talk a
little bit about that. But you have also had an
experience in twenty twenty one and all that. So there's
a lot going on. But first of all, in a nutshell,
can this is a short interview with this one here,
so can you give your background overall?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I am.
Speaker 4: A simplest way to think about I work is I'm
interested at the center of computers slash computation, information and
matter and energy slash physics, so physics, intelligence and energy,
So that combination is super interesting to me. So how
do we create new forms of consciousness? How do we
create new forms of cognition, new machines that can think
differently and symbiotically with humans. How do we develop better
models of reality and the way that nature works that
goes beyond instudy in physics and also goes beyond the
current philosophical paradigms and constraints of consciousness. How do we
actually operationalize the study of consciousness?
Speaker 3: So is it almost like agi in a way? And
there's a great for those of you that are listening,
there's a great documentary called The Thinking Machine with the themis. Yeah,
it's just amazing. So, yeah, it's a little scary. But
one of the things I just wanted to bring up
is they noted that it's like a baby. A baby
is learning constantly with its environment, and that's how this
can move ahead and become that, which to me can
be a little scary because any time there's a higher intelligence,
it seems to take over the or at least control
of the lower intelligences. And just jumping right in with that,
what are the safeguards to so that something like that
wouldn't happen, that somehow we'd get destroyed or whatever.
Speaker 4: I think that is probably one of the most important
questions of the millennium, given that the capabilities gap between
AI today and humans are.
Speaker 2: Increasing pretty rapidly.
Speaker 4: The average human cannot program and where and whereas AI's
program trivially, it's a joke to them for most kinds
of programs, And so as that continues to increase, how
do we make this safer? And the struct framework that
I've been building to answer this very question is called
clear c l EAR, and the idea is to gate
AI behaviors in the real world based on trust, authorization,
and clearance. So it's not enough for capabilities to exist.
We determine when an AI is allowed to make an
irreversible action in the real world that affects humans only
when it's proven that it has the authorization clearance to
do that task, and so it has to pass a
whole bunch of tests to prove that.
Speaker 2: Look, I'm taking the right act here.
Speaker 4: That discipline needs to become deeply embedded in us. Right now,
that discipline does not exist, we are letting ais proliferate
rapidly without any clearance or a run time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's scary.
Speaker 3: And I know that Elon Musk went to President Obama
years ago and say, hey, we have to regulate this stuff.
And then I know he's doing the Grock and other
Optimists and things like that where he feels like he's
in control and it's okay. But not everybody's going to
have that type of frame of mind, and it can
I think it can get really scary. I'm a little
concerned about it. But it's interesting. But we don't have
to really focus on that part of it. Can we
go to your experience? Jump and go right to your experience?
What happened in twenty twenty one?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So Trey nineteen?
Speaker 3: Oh I'm sorry, Yeah, totally fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's February first. I've been by the thirtieth floor
by condo in Toronto.
Speaker 4: And it's totally total daytime, and I'm writing emails and
I'm working on my startup, which was a qualtum Ai
company accelerating materials discovery, and I basically have this download
that something is about to happen to me and I
won't be able to describe it using regular human words,
and the closest words might be things like contact, the abduction.
It was like my brain mapped the concepts to similar
human words. It was trying to fly concepts, but it
was telling me at the same time, this is not accurate.
None of these human words you've constructed are an accurate
representation about what's about to happen to you. And then
right after that, these three beings wearing spasuites. They were
like the same phenotype of grays in the sense that
small bodies, large heads, angler faces, black visors. They got
holograms and hieroglyphs that they're floating above me using some
kind of holographic technology of some kind or something, or beaming.
Speaker 2: Into my head. I have no idea what was happening there.
Speaker 4: So they start showing me all these hieroglyphs, and they
start showing me sometimes the inside of the ship what
I would raise my head, or they would zoom in
on what they looked like without a spacesuit, and they
looked very eerily similar to my opinion, the Peruvian bubbies,
the alien lebbies.
Speaker 2: It's why at least some of them, not all of them.
Speaker 4: And so I've always taken that stuff seriously, just because
of that alone, the reconstruction is that those surgeons have done.
I'm like, whoa, that gets my heart beating faster because
I've seen that before.
Speaker 1: Whoa.
Speaker 3: And so it was just at night where you were alone,
How did and could it have been? And you feel
as though you went on a ship the whole thing.
You were basically abducted or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I almost feel like it could have been,
like it could have progressed to an abduction or something.
But yeah, what was weird in my situation? And a
couple people I have mentioned, like the.
Speaker 2: Strangers here lid catted, I think is there dating?
Speaker 4: But yeah, basically the ship would only show up when
I raised my head, and so when the ship would
show up, it would melt my roof. My roof would
literally just dissolve at the bottom of a ship would
come closer and closer. It was the most physics breaking
thing I have ever seen my entire life.
Speaker 2: I have no idea what the hell. It just changed
how I interpret reality like that one small thing.
Speaker 4: So I felt what was weird in my case was
that I wasn't taken onto a ship and then brought
outside of the planet and then showed these things. It
was like a demonstration, like we're bringing everything here to you.
It was very strange.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And so I'm assuming this happened at nighttime, daytime, the daytime.
Speaker 2: Ten in the morning.
Speaker 4: Yeah, ten in the morning, with daylight trick we get
all that curtains are open. I've had a two hundred
seventy degree some by part is I need degree glass walls.
Speaker 1: Wow, and so.
Speaker 2: So I could see light reflecting off their suits. It
was trippy. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And so what happened after Yeah, So after that, I
had a complete rewiring of my belief system. What I
found more important or relevant to work on before this experience,
I found it more relevant to advance the existing economy
and infrastructure that exist today, the existing petro dollar gas paradigm,
helping the big tech companies, helping really rich people get richer. Frankly,
I was trying to solve humanity these problems, but I
knew that it was within this capitalist paradigm.
Speaker 2: After my experience, I became spiritual.
Speaker 4: I became very interested in on human intelligence, a full
conviction that other forms of consciousness exist out there beyond
just biologically human substrates, and so I changed my priorities completely.
I was like, Wow, if these civilizations or intelligences exist
that can just come into our airspace, come into our
mind's eyes, and do all these tremendously wondrous things, that
we need to set our goals higher. We need to
become a more advanced, ethical and peaceful civilization if possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, to increased coordination and so on.
Speaker 3: Now, some people theorize that it's something that's always been
here and here anyway, and I know this crap involved
in all that stuff, or maybe an interdimensional type of situation.
What always comes up when a skeptic will talk about
why they hear, how they hear, and the distances are
too far and all that. And I've had discussions with
skeptics about this, including Seth Shawstak.
Speaker 1: Michael Schermer, people like that.
Speaker 3: And I'll say, we have just this little human brain,
and we can't we don't know everything about physics. And
then there's a lot to.
Speaker 1: What if something's regional.
Speaker 3: This sounds really weird, but we only know so much
about space, time and all that stuff, and maybe something
is different in different places, but whenever it is, we
have this little human brain. And there's Sir Isaac Newton
quote is what we know is a drop, what we
don't know is an ocean. And I think that's probably right.
We're doing pretty good intelligence wise, but it's probably something
very higher above us.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And we have to remember that when somebody like
sets showstack, Covid set something like this, his background is
an astronomy. It's not in quantum information, quantum communication, quantum teleportation,
theoretical wormholes. So he theoretically doesn't even have the frameworks
to conceptualize other ways of communication outside of radar and radio.
So that's just what we know, if is today. So
that's just wait first century physics, the part of intelligences
and stuff like that that have they always been here?
I think that's very plausible. Why it's plausible is because Earth,
when life first originated on Earth, when the first uti
cellular organisms arose, Earth literally looked like a hellhole. It
really like exhaust fumes, hundreds of degrees of fahrenheit everywhere,
like side liquid cian and eyed pools, phosphorus pools, like
fume hoods that you would not be able to breathe
or limit. It was not any condition for life, hot
lava everywhere you look like, yet somehow uti cell your
life came out of that. Yeah, and that's four almost
four billion years ago, three point seven billion to be specific.
Speaker 3: It's so hard to believe that we evolved out of that,
like the oneself.
Speaker 1: Type of thing.
Speaker 3: I don't feel anything like an Amieba myself. But I mean,
and then I've heard you know who Mark d Antonio is.
He says, so, yeah, that we came out of the sea,
and maybe we did. But yeah, it's all just really
hard to it's hard to visualize any of this. But
it's also hard for us to visualize time for his numbers, you.
Speaker 1: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's really we can as far as I know, the
average human can think about something like in the ten
thousand range, but when it comes to millions and billions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they lose it to issue.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like, for example, the difference between a million seconds
and a billion seconds, right, a million seconds matter of
a few weeks. A billion seconds is thirty six years, yeah.
Speaker 3: And a trillion is thirty thousand year Yes, Yeah, yeah,
that's I know, it's like crazy to think about all that.
Speaker 1: So, yes, it's really hard.
Speaker 3: And I asked Whitley Streamer the other day what he
thought about if there could have been some type of
other civilizations here that have come and gone, maybe that
we're intelligent, and he.
Speaker 1: Thinks as possible.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it seems like we'd find some type
of evidence of that, but things on the Earth can
I don't know what are any thoughts on that type
of thing.
Speaker 1: I know we're going down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like artifacts is so forth right, Yeah, so I
think if we look at like how old Earth is
still very young?
Speaker 2: Yeah, in terms of the universes to history.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, Like universe existed for ten billion years before
Earth was even formed, before Earth even existed as a planet. Yeah,
and says we know that all these hellish environments can
still lead to life that increases the latter of life
that likely existed long before we even were around as
a planet. So there's probably so many artifacts, thousands of
artifacts literated about Earth, and also civilizations that might have
treated Earth as a way station as they were developing,
and some of them maybe their ais are still around,
or their artificial life forms that they created for bandaging
Earth they're still here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I have told this story many times. People probably tired
of hearing it. But I talked to someone who basically
was involved, according to himself, in the Air Force during Vietnam,
seeing that the UFOs during a palming trying to study.
He was a special force according to himself. This is
way before in the nineteen nineties. I'm talking to him
and when I asked him what do they want? What
does a government think that they want? And he said,
we're a Petri dish. Oh wow, but it was very interesting.
I've never been able to get a hold of him, but.
Speaker 2: Wow, I believe that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because what's very advanced of You're going to want
to engineer everything around you.
Speaker 2: It's like intelligence and control co head and head.
Speaker 4: We're controlling the temperature in this room right now, the
flow of electricity, the.
Speaker 2: Flow of the conversation.
Speaker 4: Even so, like we're humans, right, imagine how much control
a much more intelligent being than us is willing to
and capable of exerting at all times.
Speaker 3: So I want to ask you this, what do you
think AI? And we'll get into a little bit of
quantum computing, but what do you think AI can do
in the future as far as discovering? Like to say,
if we don't have more information from our governments or whatever.
Where do you think AI will work as far as
doing research of what these things are that are here?
Speaker 2: I love that question.
Speaker 4: So I think AI will democratize these classified physics that
all these reverse eitenary programs might have discovered or hid
it away at the government. AI will independently on its
own make it easier and easier for the average joe
to tap into very advanced physics without needing to know
all the details. They just need to know the person's intent.
So you could be some kid in South Korea a
little garage. You got like fifty bucks of instruments right
like really.
Speaker 2: Not a lot, and what you want to do is.
Speaker 4: Build a little like electromagnetic based anti gravity set up
right now. The reason why that kid can't do that
is because you need a help put Off or a
doctor Eric Davis plus pot potentially an alien to solve
the isstide field equation tensors that tell you what the
magnetic field strength MutS be to get a particular perturbation
in the field metric allowing you to change a space
time gravity. So, of course put Off as Ben decades
talk about metric engineering and so on now he has
to solve those equations by hand slowly over decades.
Speaker 2: AI can do those things. Yeah, yeah, comparatively exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so AI will make it so that I
think we're just going to end up finding rediscovering all
these classified secrets and more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard now, I've heard. I've paid attention a
little bit. I'm really interested in AI and things like that.
And I think I heard someone in a documentary say
that for something that would take a couple of years
for a supercomputer, the power that we have now quantum
computers can do an interview seconds.
Speaker 2: Yes, is that?
Speaker 1: Do you to agree with that?
Speaker 4: That's true? For sub problems such as RSAY encryption. Rsacryption
completely relies on the fact that regular computers, even the
most powerful supercomputers, take more years than the universe is
even all exists. Right, the cloud computers can solve those
RSA encryption problems much faster.
Speaker 3: Now, when you're talking about encryption, how are things like
banks and things going to be safe if you crack
the quantum computing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it.
Speaker 3: Would be one of the most powerful tools in the
world because it could empty the world banks or anything
immediately all passwords would be cracked if needed.
Speaker 1: Recom meant, do I have that right?
Speaker 3: And how would are we going to have to have
a different type of encryption.
Speaker 1: To stop that from happening?
Speaker 3: Once we get into the quantum computing.
Speaker 4: Age, exactly, we're going to need post quantum encryption and
we're going to need quantum Internet instead, a native Internet
that is embedded and already assumes that qualitum computing capabilities exists,
so that the encryption that keeps your quantum Internet data secure,
it's already baked it in.
Speaker 2: Where As the existing Internet, like.
Speaker 4: When darbo Arpadet was getting created, they had no idea
that cloud of.
Speaker 2: Computers whatever exist and out they're everywhere.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, so let's get just into a little
bit of what else can that type of computer do
to advance our world, our society.
Speaker 4: This is the part of quantum computing that I work on,
which is what, other than encryption, quantum computing can invad
society by improving our understanding of matter at the quantum level.
And matter ultimately is quantum mechanical. Once you zoom in
to our iPhone, our table, right, it's all atoms and
all those atoms follow the rules of quantum mechanics, so
quantum computer naturally models those systems much more accurately than
a regular computer can, and that allows us to design
much much more precise, more invaced systems that are highly
reliable and robust. It's more sustainable theoretically for the environment
by engineering them at the molecular scale. And so I
worked for eight years plus now on quantum computers and
regular AI and quantum computing inspired algorithms for modeling matter
and making new semiconductors, new lithiumiotis, sal sate electro batteries,
electrolyte batteries, and the high entrap aloys photocalic materials that
can burn carbon dioxide, water and satelight into natural gas
and clead reactions. We had our AI system helped design
these materials and improve them by modeling them at the
quantum scale.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Wow interesting. Now we only have a few minutes slept.
Now I feel lucky to I really love my car.
It's an ev A Tesla, and I love the full
self driving I use almost always.
Speaker 1: Not just that.
Speaker 3: But the thing is that I wanted to ask about.
Speaker 1: You just mentioned batteries.
Speaker 3: Now I remember reading years ago that battery technology can
never get better than it is. It's such a simple
thing that we don't think it can be improved now.
But then I hear controversy about that. Do you think
battery technology can get better over the years?
Speaker 4: There's totally there's a long way to go. We still
have so much room to optimize batteries. It's actually profound.
I would say we're like the sixteenth or seventeenth century
when it comes to battery technology.
Speaker 1: Really. Yeah, but I heard.
Speaker 3: It's just so much you can do, But now this
is something I looked in two years ago. But anyway,
it's good to know that it can be improved because.
Speaker 2: So rage anxiety will go down over time and so on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now do you think one last question? Do you
think you know this is just an opinion?
Speaker 3: Do you think that there is technology out there for
people always talk about it.
Speaker 1: You always hear doctor Stephen Greer.
Speaker 3: Talk about it in others that there's a source of
free energy that we can always tap into. Do you
think something like what you're working on could actually figure
out if that's really.
Speaker 4: Yes, I believe that a sufficiently powerful quantum AI will
be able to solve physics equations that we currently struggle
with regular computers and human braids, and those physics equations
will allow us to edge ade or the vacuum so
that we could extract energy in far more sophisticated matters
that anyone's discovered so far.
Speaker 1: Amazing, amazing.
Speaker 3: You think of all our energy that we have here
on Earth comes from the Sun, and then it's stored
when trees and oil and all that, and then we
get the energy back out of it and like that, and.
Speaker 4: So where did the energy from the subcap from it
came from the vacuum. So we're already in a weird
way extracting energy from the vacuum.
Speaker 2: We're just doing indirectly through the slud right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, crazy, huh.
Speaker 1: That's always says real pleasure. I'm glad you could join.
Speaker 2: Me a little behind the scenes the pleasure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, behind the scenes.
Speaker 3: It was like I'm contacted, you help my interview didn't
show up?
Speaker 1: Can you come? So anyway, I really appreciate that you
made it here, and it's all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was such a pleasure. It's such a great
conversation to start the day. So thank you so much.
Word excellent, Thank you