WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:06.120 This story has been ongoing from late last week when 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:11.160 I was filling in for Trevor with the California State Bar, 3 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:17.280 the California Board of Bar Examiners, and the administration of 4 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:22.800 the most recent California Bar Exam, the big exam that 5 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:30.079 qualifies new lawyers, and the total train wreck disaster that's happened, 6 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:33.039 and the fact that we may be allowing in a 7 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:38.159 bunch of people who are not qualified to be lawyers 8 00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:42.799 based on the ways in which the California State Bar 9 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:47.399 Exam was royally screwed up from soup to nuts. So 10 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:50.759 let's I wanted to let all you know. This is 11 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:56.119 sort of inside lawyery baseball, but it's just a fascinating 12 00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:58.560 example of a couple of different things that just massively 13 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:04.319 annoy me, particularly the proliferation of AI to basically arenas 14 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:10.280 that don't need it and actively shouldn't have it, which 15 00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:12.280 is a big pet peeve of mine. So let me 16 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:17.359 describe what's happened, all right, the bar exam. Most people 17 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:21.680 have heard of this. The bar exam is the exam 18 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:28.280 administered by every one of the individual fifty states. It 19 00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:32.000 has some in most states, it has some portions of 20 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:36.959 it that are sort of interstate or federal or not, 21 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:39.799 you know, individual states specific, and then it has some 22 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:44.640 stuff in it that is state specific and it is 23 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:48.959 intended to qualify you as a lawyer. If you pass 24 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:54.200 the Bar Exam, you become a licensed lawyer in that state. 25 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.959 And it's a very difficult test. It's very it's very 26 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:04.439 intensively like physically demanding. It. It takes place over the 27 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:07.439 course of two days. Back when I took it in 28 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:12.960 twenty fifteen, I took the California Bar Exam after having 29 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:15.919 I had already taken it in Massachusetts for my first job, 30 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:18.319 and then we moved back home to California, I took 31 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:20.120 the California Bar Exam, so I'm a member of the 32 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:24.199 bar for both Massachusetts and California. The California Bar Exam 33 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:26.000 when I took it in twenty fifteen was a three 34 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:28.639 day long test. Now it's only a two day long test, 35 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:31.520 which most states have a two day long test, and 36 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:37.919 it's I think it's two three hour sessions per day 37 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:45.479 and very very intensive because basically they can give you 38 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:51.199 questions from almost any body any part of American law. 39 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:55.960 You might have an essay question about torts, you might 40 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:58.319 have an essay question about contract. You might have an 41 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:02.280 essay question about criminal law or criminal procedure. You might 42 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:05.039 have a essay question about this, you might have an 43 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:07.840 essay question about that. And you have to basically study 44 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:13.840 this enormous, enormous range of material to be like ready 45 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:19.159 to go to answer whatever comes your way. So the 46 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.199 lead up to it is super intensive because you have 47 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:23.759 to study study studies so hard. It's such an enormous 48 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:33.719 range of material. Now you have multiple choice questions on 49 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:36.199 the bar exam. I'm giving you this background, by the way, 50 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:40.759 because the bar exam is only issued twice a year 51 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:46.159 late July and February for people who wrapped up law 52 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:49.000 school at the end of the spring semester at the 53 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:53.560 end of the fall semester, respectively. And the most recent 54 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.479 February administration of the bar exam was a train wreck. 55 00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:59.120 So let me keep describing how it goes for you 56 00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:01.400 so you can kind of under stand the context of 57 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:08.520 how bad it is. The bar exam sort of has 58 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:11.560 two different kinds of questions. You have multiple choice questions 59 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:16.040 and then you have essay questions. The essay questions present 60 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:19.959 you with a large sort of factual, a large factual scenario, 61 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:26.480 large complex factual scenario. You know, Mike was driving down 62 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:31.000 the road. A police officer pulled him over. The police 63 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:35.399 officer smelled marijuana in the car. He opened the trunk 64 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:40.879 without asking permission first, the Mike fled the scene. He 65 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:43.800 raised his fist as if to punch the officer, but 66 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:48.160 then did not actually connect with his fist. How many 67 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:52.720 criminal claims? Spot all the issues with this scenario in 68 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:56.839 an essay form? Okay, so they'll present you with this 69 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.560 very elaborate factual scenario and you have to identify like 70 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:04.160 all the different legal claims or issues involved within that 71 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:07.800 legal scenario. That's how the essay questions work. And then 72 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:11.480 the multiple choice questions are no walk in the park either. 73 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:14.879 The multiple choice questions on the bar exam present you 74 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:18.360 with a very tightly written but very complex, little factual pattern, 75 00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:23.399 and you have four different options for how to resolve it. 76 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:26.879 It's not easy. I think you think multiple choice, you think, oh, 77 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.120 that's not that hard. Now these are hard. The multiple 78 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:32.240 choice questions on the bar exam are really hard. I'd 79 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:38.079 say for me, they were harder than the essay questions. Now, 80 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:45.560 what happened? Well, the California bar Exam administered this weird 81 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:52.519 hybrid remote version of the bar Exam where there is 82 00:05:52.519 --> 00:05:58.439 a computer element to the bar Exam where basically, especially 83 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:00.160 for the essay questions, you can have your laptop up 84 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:02.319 there and it's connected into the system and you write 85 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:07.079 out your answers. So there was this sort of hybrid 86 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:11.600 remote system that was being used, and these electronic features 87 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:13.360 are being used where people are doing the bar Exam 88 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:18.439 with their laptops. And in the February bar Exam and 89 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:24.199 mission setting, a bunch of stuff failed electronically, just stuff 90 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:30.519 wasn't connected, people couldn't connect, and people just lost out 91 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:37.560 on the opportunity to answer a whole bunch of questions. Furthermore, 92 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:47.279 it was then revealed after the fact that non lawyers 93 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:55.439 utilizing AI had actually drafted some of the multiple choice 94 00:06:55.639 --> 00:07:00.759 questions on the bar Exam. Now, this is so bad 95 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:08.199 and so just just wildly inappropriate. First of all, because 96 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:11.319 first and foremost, because AI is just not that good 97 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:14.480 yet that we could trust it with something like this 98 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:19.240 to develop a factual a series of factual scenarios that 99 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:25.160 would be relevant enough for testing a prospective lawyer on 100 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:29.000 their knowledge of the law. AI is just not good enough. 101 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.759 It's certainly not good enough to do that without a 102 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.560 lawyer checking up on it, and at a certain point 103 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:40.160 then it's not useful. You might as well just have 104 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:42.399 the lawyer come up with it rather than have AI 105 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:47.759 create it and then have the lawyer review it. I mean, 106 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:51.040 you all, any one of you listening to this who 107 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:57.879 have Googled anything, you know how unreliable AI is. Okay, 108 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:01.759 I Google, you know, I'm I'm nobody special. I'm sure 109 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:09.160 ninety percent of the population does this. But pretty Google 110 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:14.240 now has like the AI summary for its search result 111 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:17.759 findings that they stick at the top now of every 112 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:21.639 single stinking Google search. And it's so obnoxious because I 113 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:26.720 feel like, you know, nineteen times out of twenty it 114 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:30.759 just isn't useful or it isn't reliably useful. Because this 115 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:35.519 is the thing with AI, people, I feel like over 116 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:40.639 praise it and over laud it for how revolutionary it is. 117 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:46.639 It's garbage in, garbage out. What AI does is it's 118 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.080 just synthesizing all the information that is put into the 119 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.840 system and then it spits it out. You do a 120 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:57.159 Google search for something, you might have five things that 121 00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:00.320 are relevant and ten things that are irrelevant, well the 122 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.639 five If the irrelevant stuff is up high in the 123 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:08.320 search results, that's going to influence the AI summary. So 124 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:14.559 the AI summary then becomes partially irrelevant or partially not useful. 125 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:20.879 It's garbage in, garbage out. That's how AI works. So 126 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:25.159 you usually cannot trust AI if you have some sort 127 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:30.840 of simple task to give it. Okay, sure, write out 128 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:35.360 some boilerplate language for you know, a thank you letter 129 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:41.279 for you know, in my case, like for a nonprofit donor. Okay, sure, 130 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:44.279 that's that looks fine. This is a low stakes thing. 131 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:48.279 I can look at it and that's fine. The problem 132 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.919 is the higher the stakes are, the less you can 133 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:55.559 really rely on AI. And specifically this is true in 134 00:09:55.600 --> 00:10:03.559 the legal context. Lawyers are are getting sanctioned more and 135 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:09.360 more today because it gets found out that a lawyer 136 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.399 used AI, used CHAP GPT, use some sort of AI 137 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.600 system for writing or drafting a legal brief or doing something, 138 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:27.480 and it's a breach of their professional responsibilities. I feel 139 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:30.039 like the use of AI in the practice of law 140 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:35.879 is fraught with peril, and nobody who's like really enthusiastic. 141 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:39.840 All these techi people, they're so enthusiastic about AI Oh, 142 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:44.159 it's gonna revolutionize this, gonna revolutionize that. Yeah, it's gonna 143 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.840 revolutionize You ruining your career because you tried to use 144 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:50.200 AI on something important and you didn't double check it 145 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:54.000 and then your client gets screwed. Why is your client 146 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.000 paying you money for you to use chat GPT. The 147 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:01.480 use of AI is fraud with peril for attorneys. I 148 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:07.799 feel maybe there's some way that you can think of 149 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:11.240 AI as like a search tool for beginning your legal 150 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:14.879 research or something like that, but relying on AI to 151 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:21.720 write stuff is fraught with peril. And yet somehow, bizarrely 152 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:26.240 the state bar thought it was okay to have a 153 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:40.519 non lawyer using AI draft bar results. Now, this is 154 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:46.120 so bad, Like the California Apparently people with the cap 155 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:49.519 at the top level of the California Bar did not 156 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:52.879 know that they had commissioned non lawyers using AI to 157 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:58.080 write bar exam questions. So the very test that you're 158 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:02.120 qualifying new young lawyers, for these new young lawyers that 159 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:04.519 you're gonna have to give all these continuing education for 160 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:06.039 the rest of their careers are going to have to 161 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:08.759 deal with the ethics, the how tos, the what to 162 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:12.840 avoids of utilizing AI. You are recklessly using AI on 163 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:16.679 the very test that's designed to qualify them and having 164 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.320 a non lawyer utilize the AI to write the test, 165 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:23.679 which I'm sure probably cost a lot of money for 166 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.240 whatever AI function was used, and makes me wonder why 167 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:29.799 why would you waste time on it? Get some law 168 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:34.639 Get like twenty law professors from different law schools up 169 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.480 and down the state. They'll help out on a pro 170 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.000 bono basis. Have each one of them, you know, write 171 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:43.519 you know, five multiple choice questions for the bar exam. 172 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:47.480 Have them submit them. What are we bothering? Why are 173 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.639 we bothering? With AI? It probably would have been cheaper 174 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:52.399 just to ask a bunch of law professors to help 175 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.559 contribute questions, which I'm pretty sure is what they normally 176 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:59.879 do anyway, at least for whatever portions of the bar 177 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:03.200 zoom or state specific usually that there's I think California 178 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:08.120 actually rejected the multi state multiple choice question that anyway, 179 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:12.960 it boggles my mind. This and this is the thing 180 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:17.120 I hate about AI insofar as I have opinions on it. 181 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:20.679 And this is this is a constant point of joking 182 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.720 between myself, Jonathan Keller, and producer Colton who our team 183 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.080 for the Right to Life radio show, which we air 184 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:32.639 on Saturday mornings here on Power Talk. They love all 185 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:37.159 new technology. They're Apple fanboys. Anytime a new iPhone comes out, 186 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:39.600 they're like first in line to get it. And they're 187 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.000 very enthused about AI and the opportunities and possibilities for 188 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.320 AI and blah blah blah blah blah. Meanwhile, I hate 189 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:50.600 all this stuff. I feel like we're willingly walking into 190 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:57.080 some kind of dystopian you know, terminator slash the Matrix 191 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:02.320 slash I robot, you know, dystopian AI future where we're 192 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:08.679 willingly handing over our autonomy two machines. And I just 193 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:12.440 hate this idea, this mindless idea of wanting to shove 194 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:19.480 AI into every single product, function, functionality humanly conceivable. Like 195 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:22.759 I don't need AI to help me write a post 196 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:26.039 on LinkedIn, of all places. I don't need AI to 197 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:29.919 help me on Facebook. I can waste time perfectly well 198 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:32.200 on my own, thank you very much. I don't need 199 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:38.639 a there's no possible need for AI in I don't 200 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:41.480 need an AI summary thing in quick books. I want 201 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:45.440 a human entering these ledgers. Like, no, I don't need 202 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:57.600 AI for so much. Now when we return the California State. 203 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:03.720 The California State Supreme Court also didn't know that the 204 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.840 state bar folks were using AI to write multiple choice questions. 205 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.600 That on top of the giant mess that was left 206 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:18.159 behind from the February bar administration. Now the California Supreme 207 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.080 Court has to rule on are we going to lower 208 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:25.240 the scores for passage to allow in a bunch of 209 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.360 lawyers who didn't make the normal what we would have 210 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:32.080 said as the normal qualifying score and what the impact 211 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:34.159 of that is. That is next on the John Girardi Show. 212 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:40.399 So the California State Bar Exam that was administered this 213 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:44.039 past February, and remember they only administer the bar exam 214 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:48.720 for prospective new lawyers two times a year, once in 215 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:52.480 February for either people who failed to pass the bar 216 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:56.879 exam the first time or graduated in spring, and then 217 00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:02.559 once in July for people who graduated law school in May. 218 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:07.919 So you only get two shots at this year, and 219 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:13.320 it's like six months apart. So it really janks up 220 00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:20.000 your life schedule if you fail the bar exam, or 221 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:22.480 if the bar exam got so screwed up that you're 222 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:24.360 in the state of limbo of did you or didn't 223 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:28.600 you pass, and your you know, your professional prospects are 224 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:32.759 massively altered. Thereby, you can't practice as a lawyer if 225 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:35.519 you haven't passed the Bar Exam, and maybe you got 226 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:37.919 hired by a firm out of law school and you're you're, 227 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:42.440 you know, waiting to hear back on your Bar exam results. 228 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.799 It's a stressful thing and can be a hugely obviously, 229 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:48.879 it's a hugely limiting thing if you don't pass the 230 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:54.080 Bar Exam or if you don't know. Plus, by the way, 231 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:58.279 it takes a couple of months to grade the Bar Exam. 232 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:03.000 They administered the Bar Exam in February. They're supposed to 233 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.160 be releasing Bar Exam results on May second. Now, as 234 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.160 I described in the last segment, the California Bar Exam 235 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.680 that was administered in February, and California has sort of 236 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.960 taken total control over its state bar exam. Most states 237 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.640 have what's called the multi state portion of their exam, 238 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:26.160 where this this entity provides all the states with sort 239 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:29.160 of the same stuff for the multiple choice questions that 240 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:31.400 are used on the Bar Exam. By the way, this 241 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.200 is the hardest multiple choice thing you've ever seen in 242 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:41.359 your life. Okay, imagine the sat is on steroids. There's 243 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:46.400 the multiple choice questions are usually sort of standardized across 244 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:50.400 the country, and then your essay questions are state by 245 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:55.319 state specific. Well, California rejected that. California said, no, we're 246 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.200 we're taking control of the multi state portion ourselves, and 247 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:04.400 the multi state multiple choice question portion ourselves, and the 248 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.680 individual essay questions ourselves. Okay, that's fine, don't screw it up. 249 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:14.039 And they royally screwed it up. The basically the electronics 250 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:18.039 system allowing people to take the test, the online electronics 251 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:24.599 system failed massively for large numbers of test takers, resulting 252 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:26.559 in a bunch of people who just weren't able to 253 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:31.480 even finish the test or go through all the answers. 254 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:36.759 And it was later revealed a bunch of the multi 255 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:40.519 state a bunch of the multiple choice questions were written 256 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:48.400 by non lawyers utilizing AI. So we were now in 257 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:52.160 this position where the California Bar examiners were having to 258 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:57.119 go to the California State Supreme Court, which, for those 259 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:00.400 who don't know, there's the US Supreme Court in Washington, DC. 260 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:05.359 You know, Chief Justice Roberts Clarence Thomas Samlito. Every individual 261 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:08.680 state has its own state Supreme Court. There's a California 262 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:13.039 State Supreme Court, Utah State Supreme Court, Hawaii State Supreme Court, Montana, 263 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:20.400 et cetera. California's State Supreme Court overseas certain aspects of 264 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.839 the legal profession, and because of the exceptional circumstances here, 265 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.119 the California Bar Examiners are petitioning the State Supreme Court 266 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:37.839 to lower the passing grade for this February bar exam, 267 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:42.559 given how royally was screwed up. Results are supposed to 268 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:46.799 be released on May second. Yesterday, it was revealed, though, 269 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:51.720 that the State Bar still hadn't even submitted its brief. 270 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:03.880 They're screwing up left and right. On April eighteenth, according 271 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.000 to this statement from the State Bar, on April eighteenth, 272 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:09.440 the Committee of Bar Examiners made its recommendations for scoring 273 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:13.039 adjustments for the February bar exam. The CB asked US 274 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.799 California's Supreme Court to rule on a petition the State 275 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.880 Bar would file regarding those recommendations by Monday, April twenty eighth. Well, 276 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:23.400 the problem is the State Bar hadn't even filed the petition, 277 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:29.960 and they're supposed to be filing it today. The timing 278 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.559 of the petition will not give the Supreme Court, the 279 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:35.519 State Supreme Court much time they write to rule in 280 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:38.200 a manner that allows us to apply the scoring recommendations 281 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:40.880 adopted by the Court and then release February Bar Exam 282 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.400 results on May second. There may therefore be a slight 283 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:48.920 delay in releasing results. This is a huge problem. This 284 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:56.160 is a huge problem. So first of all, how it 285 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:00.839 impacts your professional prospects if you're admittance to the bar 286 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.559 is being delayed, delayed, delayed, Can I start this job 287 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:08.920 that I want? Well, we don't know. And then secondly, 288 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:14.039 there's this all right, The idea of the bar exam 289 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:17.160 is that it's a barrier to entry. It's deliberately hard. 290 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:23.200 On the one hand, it's testing your knowledge of the law. 291 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:26.680 On the other hand, it's just testing if you're smart 292 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.920 and hard working. It's testing whether you've got the goods 293 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:33.599 to really study, really, really, really hard and absorb a 294 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.559 lot of material. Because why, well, being a lawyer is 295 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:46.319 a really important responsibility. Your conduct, your behavior can be 296 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:51.880 the difference between a murderer going free or a murderer 297 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.799 going to jail. It can be the difference between you know, 298 00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.839 millions of dollars going rightly or wrongly one way or another. 299 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.480 We need good, just competent people being lawyers so that 300 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:10.400 justice can be administered throughout society. It's actually a really 301 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:18.480 important thing. And they make it hard to pass the 302 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:23.880 bar exame because they don't want dummies being lawyers. And 303 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:28.680 I'm afraid, like, if you're lowering the standard because the 304 00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:31.799 state and I mean, what else can the state bar do? 305 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.839 They screwed it up. They screwed it up. It wasn't 306 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:39.359 the test takers. It screwed it up. They did. So 307 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:42.799 if you're lowering the standard for admitting people in, are 308 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:44.960 we just going to concede? Well, I guess we're just 309 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.039 gonna let a couple of people who are not as 310 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:52.480 smart as we would normally like let them become lawyers. 311 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:57.680 You know, it's not good, It really is not good. 312 00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.559 Are we going to get people who are gonna give 313 00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:03.799 people add legal advice like that? It's a really bad thing. 314 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:11.440 And the state Bar is going to just apologize and 315 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:15.799 that Here's well, the one thing that could really give 316 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:17.920 the state bar some real pain and maybe lead to 317 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:21.160 some real reform here is the fact that these are 318 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:27.119 law students whom you have screwed over. This is a 319 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:32.400 litigious group. So and and you've got a lot of 320 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:34.799 lawyers all up and down the state looking at this 321 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:38.279 with great interest about, Hey, how can I sue the 322 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.599 state bar. You know all these bar dues they're collecting. Hmmm, 323 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.480 maybe that's a nice pool of money for me to 324 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:46.440 try to sue. Let's see if I can put a 325 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:50.599 slap a class action lawsuit together. Like yeah, this is 326 00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:54.920 a dicey situation for the state bar. All right. When 327 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.480 we return, one of the big issues in the upcoming 328 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:03.960 papal election China. That's next on the John Girardi Show. 329 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:09.160 An underrated issue in the upcoming election of the Pope 330 00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:15.400 may well be the issue of China. One of the 331 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:19.440 more significant things that happened under Pope Francis's papacy was 332 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:23.359 an agreement, a kind of concordat that was signed between 333 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:27.440 the Catholic Church and the Chinese government. And it had 334 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:31.599 to do with what influence, what power was the Chinese 335 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:36.720 state going to have in the selection of bishops, and 336 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:41.279 what sort of regularized non regularized status would there be 337 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.599 for the Catholic Church in China. Now for years up 338 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:51.400 until now in mainland China, there was this division between 339 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.920 the state approved I think it was called the Chinese 340 00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.480 Catholic Patriotic Association or something, so the state approved Catholic 341 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:07.119 Church in China, and then the underground illegal Catholic Church 342 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:10.640 like the actual Catholic Church, which would be subject to 343 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:17.799 sporadic harassment persecution by the Chinese governmental authorities. The Vatican 344 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:22.039 and China had broken off any kind of diplomatic relations 345 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:28.000 after the revolution and Malo Zetung and a ton of 346 00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:36.640 Chinese Catholics were martyred under the Communist regime and one 347 00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:41.079 of the during the Benedict papacy, one of the real 348 00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:47.440 stalwart defenders of the underground church in China was the 349 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.519 Bishop of Hong Kong, who is a cardinal, Cardinal Zen. Yes, 350 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.720 his name is Cardinal Zen ze En, not Cardinals Zin. 351 00:25:57.079 --> 00:26:03.039 Cardinal Zin zi Yan had as a mullet and wears 352 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:08.480 wrap around rainbow colored shades and cut off you know, 353 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:13.920 tank top and cut off blue jeans and smokes Marlboroughs 354 00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:17.160 and goes dirt biking with his buddies. No, just kidding, 355 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.240 there's no Cardinal Zen. There is a Cardinal Zen though, Okay, 356 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.599 Cardinal Zen was the Bishop of Hong Kong and was 357 00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:29.759 a staunch defender of the underground Catholic Church and a 358 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:40.599 critic of the Chinese government. Well Francis's papacy. And by 359 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:43.200 the way, I'm not I'm gonna just report on this, 360 00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:49.960 I'm not really giving much of an opinion because, for one, 361 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:54.359 diplomatic relations between the Catholic Church and various kinds of 362 00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:58.400 governments have always been dicey, and you often have this 363 00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:03.480 situation of the Catholic Church trying to make chicken salad 364 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.480 at a chicken you know what, where they've got a 365 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:11.559 hostile government, they've got a anti clerical or anti religious government. 366 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:16.839 They want the Catholic Church to exist within that government, 367 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:21.400 and maybe certain kinds of concessions have to be made 368 00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:25.480 as far as like over you know how bishops get appointed, 369 00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:32.279 what you know, stuff like that. And the Church wants 370 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:38.160 to have regularization with all of the Catholics in China 371 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.359 who were part of the Patriotic Catholic Association, the state 372 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.759 approved church, and they're trying to figure out, well, is 373 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:48.599 there a way that we can regularize relations and have 374 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:53.000 these Catholics not be schismatic and have them be part 375 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:55.559 of the actual Catholic Church. Is there a way we 376 00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:59.640 can do that? And they developed this sort of concordat 377 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:08.160 allowing basically the Vatican to also nominate bishops for the 378 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:14.680 official state run Chinese Church. So I get what's motivating 379 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:23.480 Pope Francis and most particularly Cardinal Pietro Parolin. So, Pietro 380 00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:26.920 Polin is the papal Secretary of State and is clearly 381 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.599 seems to think of himself, or well, I shouldn't say 382 00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:35.319 think of himself. He is clearly a candidate for Pope. 383 00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:40.559 Pietro Poolin. He's a secretary of State, which is basically 384 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.880 he's in charge of the Vatican's relationships with foreign officials, 385 00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:45.440 and the Secretary of State actually has a lot of 386 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.119 sort of power within the structures of the Vatican itself. 387 00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:56.319 And it's clear that he is a candidate for Pope. 388 00:28:56.599 --> 00:28:59.680 So he was critical under Pope Francis and signing this 389 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:08.079 agreement with the Chinese Communist Party regarding the above ground Church. 390 00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:13.839 The criticism of this agreement, though, and one of the 391 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:18.680 big critics of this agreement was Joseph Zen, the cardinal 392 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.759 Bishop of Hong Kong, or the former he's now retired, 393 00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:25.839 he's like ninety years old, but he was extremely critical 394 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:29.200 of this deal, and here he is in Hong Kong. 395 00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:36.480 Basically he said, well, you've you're you're conceding so much 396 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:41.480 to the Chinese, Like are you going to be okay? 397 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:45.079 I mean, are the is is the Chinese government going 398 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.519 to vet bishops to make sure that they're you know, 399 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:52.400 supportive of communism? Like are we really going to be 400 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.440 sure that bishops that are jointly appointed, that are okayed 401 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.799