Speaker 1: What is up, fella sickos.
Speaker 2: I am Danfa Valley coming at you with the certified
fantabulous mister Grant Hughes. It's the Hardwood Knox Annual NBA
Late Night Trade Deadline wrap up. Fishy are coming to you,
Grant in landscape and vertical mode because we're hip and cool.
After some technical difficulties in which our originally scheduled stream
just disappeared.
Speaker 1: We're here. Lots happened this week, excited to get to it.
Speaker 2: No one I want to speak with more about the
bedlam that is this week than you, Grant. And I
ask you this before we really just dive into the slop.
Speaker 1: How the heck are you?
Speaker 3: Man? Uh, I'm tired.
Speaker 1: It was a day.
Speaker 3: It's been a day, it's been a week. It's been
a week. Yeah, I'm I'm just delighted to speak to you.
We spoke once earlier today. If anybody is double dipping
with us today or well meybe you won't be listening
or watching this till tomorrow. But and then also checked
out our br stream or for ninety minutes. We also
talked about stuff. Good for you. I'm excited you We've
smoked it. I smoked. People are saying.
Speaker 2: First of all, people are saying, because I did get
multiple messages, oh good, but I got zero.
Speaker 3: But I'm very disconnected.
Speaker 2: We started off pretty poorly, I think because we both
had echoes in our ears.
Speaker 1: There was just a lot. It was awkward.
Speaker 2: But after the first couple of minutes we got into
a group. But yeah, I echo, thanks everyone for checking
us out. We're going to work big too small. But
Grant and I are going to alternate. We don't know
where each other's going with We're going to talk about
the individual moves, but teams at large when it warrants it.
Grant does know where I'm going to go to start
us off, though, I want to begin with the trade
that didn't happen with Giannis, and I want to make
a few things clear here. Grant, if I was the
if I were the Bucks, I would absolutely have not
accepted any of the rumored packages that were on the table.
Speaker 1: Not moving him is the right call.
Speaker 2: What I don't like is these people that are buying
into the idea that Jannis actually wanted to stick around
the entire time, never requested a trade, that there is
some slight or agenda against their team. I understand the
frustrations of other fans or media talking about your favorite
team's best player and how they should want out.
Speaker 1: We had.
Speaker 2: This wasn't just Shams starting over the summer. We had Chams,
we had Mark Stein, we had Shake Fisher, Sam amacad stuff.
There was equivocation on Gianni's front, and I would argue
that is putting it lightly. It's fine that he ended
up sticking around. If they can convince him to stay
by making a big move this summer when they have
three first round picks available, I'm totally okay with it.
I wouldn't have moved him either, because I think that
the offers won't get worse at the very least, and
if anything, you're gonna open up more suitors like the
Spurs or the Rockets, maybe even the Thunder the Hawks,
depending on how the lottery shakes out, depending on how
the players the playoffs, excuse me shakeout. That is all fine,
but I really just I understand the whole Sham's business
model and just NBA rumors at large.
Speaker 1: The way the sausage is made is icky at times.
It's not great.
Speaker 2: Let's not pretend because Jannis posted legends recruit or don't leave.
Whatever he did, he at least contemplated, if not nudged
the Bucks to move him.
Speaker 1: They didn't. I think that was the smart move.
Speaker 2: We're both on the record are saying it'd be really
freaking cool if he stays, wins another title, or is
just a one team player and their relevant. I'm not
mad they didn't trade him, but let's not pretend that
this was a fabricated situation. And That's where I'm at
with the Bucks. And my final thought is, if you
were gonna keep you, honest, they better be on the
same page this time because their biggest move was getting
Usman Jang and if he wants to come back and play,
and there's already stuff floating around about that he'll play
a little bit or maybe won't go full board, this
better beyond the same page because we thought this year
was gonna be kind of a gap year for them. Anyway,
even after waving and stretching Dame, he didn't seem happy
with that, So I don't want to hear that they
are like at odds now, you better be on the
same page if you kept him that because you didn't
make the big move, so you're not you're not planning
around the season, which again, not only do I think
is fine, it's exactly what I would have done.
Speaker 3: Man. Yeah, so I say this, I guess without judgment.
But Yiannis did every single thing he could do to
get traded without saying trade me. And maybe he did
say trade me, and we just don't know about it, right, Like,
so here's here's where I think I'm at. Now, I'm
real fucking tired of the whole thing. Just that's This
is gonna be a theme throughout. I hope everyone's picking
up on this. Uh. I think the biggest issue for
me is nothing has changed. The only difference is we
will we will. The only difference is when we will
again address this, which will be later, which will be
this offseason, because Giannis will be eligible to sign an
extension and he will or he won't and will do
We probably will be able to cut and paste several
things from Scham's and or previous situations when Jannis has
basically made clear that he would like to be in
Milwaukee and is committed but or I want to win
here but or some version of that, right, and again
I'm I don't fault him for that, Like it's kind
of cool in a weird way that he wants to
stay put and wants to be a one team player.
Like you said, we're on board that that's the laudable
thing to be. It's hard to do that. It's rare.
I guess it showcases some level of loyalty in a
business that really has none unless you're in the absolute
upper crust and you're good enough to warrant that kind
of loyalty from a team. But nothing's changed. The Bucks
are still in as bad a position relative to Janice's
sort of hopes for being on a contending roster as
they were before the deadline. Like I and I don't
see a way for that to change. I don't know,
like you know what I mean, Like, what what's gonna happen?
They're they're gonna trade, They're they're gonna make another Miles
turnerish signing or Damian lillardish trade. That hasn't been enough,
and Giannie will be older and and is coming off
this calf, and who knows what that's gonna.
Speaker 1: Look, what's what?
Speaker 3: What circumstances have changed on the ground that will prevent
this from happening again? At its first opportunity.
Speaker 2: I honestly don't think that it's gonna be. That's my
feeling is, I don't think you, honest is on the
Bucks to start next year.
Speaker 1: I kind of hope I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: The one team that but this to me is from
the Bucks perspective is more about there will be teams
that don't come out of the woodwork, but teams that
we have talked about that just weren't rumored to be
after him now I think you look, what's changed is
the offers for him. I honestly, who had the best
offer for young Like the actual sourced rumor for him?
Speaker 1: Most of them were dog shit.
Speaker 2: It evolved a lot of well, what if this team
trades this player and gets eight first round picks they
could send to the Bucks.
Speaker 3: So so you're right, that will change because something we
talked about this with with Jake on the on the
Jake Fisher on the on the live stream cool flex thanks.
I told Jay it was a cool flex that he
had a phone battery. I think I hope he didn't
take offense to that. Uh, what will change is like
San Antonio might lose in the first round and they're like,
all right, enough of this like slow playing this Wemby stuff.
Let's go right. Then there's then they can put an
offer on the table. It's better than anything the Bucks
got at the deadline, for sure, and maybe better than
anything they're going to get over the summer.
Speaker 1: Throw the Rockets in there, throw.
Speaker 3: The Knicks, improving their their potential offer the Wolves maybe can.
So yeah, that's different. What I mean, what hasn't changed,
and what is I guess my core source of frustration, uh,
is that Giannis wants to win a title, wants to
contend for a title. It cannot happen in Milwaukee. So,
like I guess maybe this is like residual frustration from
a year ago when I said that, and probably two
years like two years ago when I said that, and
and so it's it's I'm trying to hold two ideas
in tandem. One is I think it's it's nice that
he wants to be on this team and he like
he wants to he doesn't want to demand a trade.
I think that's nice. I think I'm having a hard
time holding that at the same time as why like
him convincing himself that he that that it can happen there?
It can't. Man it can't, so so like we're just
gonna burn more calories and waste more time doing the
same thing.
Speaker 2: The only counter I will give you is that they
will have three first round picks to trade this summer.
And I think, based off how the Jaron Jackson Junior
sweep Steaks unfolded, based off how the Anthony Davis Sweepstakes unfolded,
based off how the Tree Young sweep Steaks unfolded, three
first round picks, I think goes further than it used to.
Speaker 1: It might.
Speaker 2: You might even get to a point where it's so
they're gonna get the less favorable of their own and
the Pelicans pick this year, and then they open up
two for there's two additional first round picks post twenty
thirty that they could trade, twenty thirty one and twenty
thirty three. There's a chance, I'm not saying it could
definitely happen that you could keep this year's pick and
then you trade the other two and get like a
real player in here, someone better than John or better
fitting than John Moran. And now what the Bucks have
done is that's an areo still on the table. But
I just think, then okay, and if it's not if
it doesn't pan out, if he wants out. Look, the
offers are gonna either be the same, but they'll probably
be better just by virtue of there being more teams involved.
Speaker 3: I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I think
here's the other this is the other obvious point that's
been made, is that if you're trading for your honest
in the offseason, as opposed to the deadline, you're getting
maybe one playoff run out of him, and that's worse
than two. However, if you are trading for him, you
you better goddamn we'll know that you're gonna be able
to extend him, right like that.
Speaker 1: So that's on you at that point, right, that's on you, Right, Yeah,
I just I mean, I don't know. Here's my thing.
Speaker 2: I understand we all have fatigue from this, and I
actually understand why the Bucks are annoyed that everyone. I
if the perspective was, well, they should have just moved
him at this deadline and taken what they could have gotten.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, that's not right, that's right. We are a
total alignment on that. The offers were not good enough.
I'm just annoyed at the position at just typical Warriors fan.
Speaker 1: How mad, just super mad. Yeah, let's move on.
Speaker 3: You get to pick.
Speaker 1: Now where we go?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think, well, I guess this is maybe
the biggest trade. Let's let's do the Anthony Davis to
the Wizards deal.
Speaker 1: What is it that that's like?
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, I well, there is one other
one that I think actually is more relevant to like
actual competitive basketball this season, which we will get to.
Speaker 1: But so we're starting with the Wizards, starting with the shocking.
Speaker 3: Shocking trade. Yes, Anthony Anthony Davis getting traded, not shocking.
Landing with the Wizard wards really surprising. So the particulars
of that for anyone that forgot in the last week,
because it's been a blur. The MAVs send Anthony Davis,
Dante Exem, Jaden Hardy, D'Angelo Russell to the Washington Wizards.
That's a huge amount of salary. In return, the Mavericks
receive Marvin Bagley, the third, Malachi Branham, AJ Johnson, Chris Middleton,
the Oklahoma City Thunder's twenty twenty six first round pick,
just In Penn. That's the twenty ninth or thirtieth pick
in this upcoming draft. The Phoenix Suns twenty six second,
the Bulls twenty seven second, Houston's twenty nine second, the
Warriors twenty thirty first, which is effectively a fake first,
that's what we like to call it has top twenty
protection becomes a second if not conveyed.
Speaker 2: So can I add kaya one thing before cincher. We're
going to talk about this in the macro. Yeah, it
is very likely that the Wizards acquired Trey Young and
Anthony Davis while giving up one first round pick that
will be the number thirty pick, and that is not
their own picks. I don't care what you like. We
have to get into the extensions what it means for
the team.
Speaker 1: That's objectively insane.
Speaker 3: So so right, like let's start there, Like value wise,
I don't care what Anthony Davis makes. It's he's Anthony Davis.
Like you don't know how many games you're gonna get
out of him, or like how much more weight he's
gonna put on I'm real punchy tonight or of.
Speaker 1: It, or or.
Speaker 3: How he'll produce as he ages. Right, it's still Anthony Davis,
and then it's still Tree Young. Similar arguments. You're not
really sure, like how productive, he's gonna be Can you
build all these qu for one terrible first? Like, okay, yeah,
sign me up. It's a fascinating roster building conversation. We
could do a whole pod on like, oh, is this
a new way to just kick start out of a
rebuild when you have like some in between pieces that
aren't cornerstones. You'll get some like flawed cornerstones in there
for a minute and just let the the the in
between young guys marinate. Interesting. But you're right, like the
value it's just you. I think you just do this
if you're Washington, especially if the alternative is, well, we
got to burn this cap space on somebody at some
point this summer. Are we gonna do better than Anthony
Davis and Trey Young? Like I don't think so. So
it it's ill fitting because of just where the Wizards are.
They're one of the worst teams in the league. And
Davis and Young are both distressed assets obviously because that
you know that because they came so cheap and it's
very strange. But I think where you start with this
is like, if you're the Wizards, why not, right, Like,
why not for that price?
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for I was having this discussion with more in
a DM and he just thinks he says he's ultra conservative.
And by the way, I just want to point out,
we'll be reading comments we go through, but because stream
Yard is just awesome at the moment, we can't put
them on screen otherwise they'll ruin our format like Ratt
just did. So if he could take screen, that would
be great.
Speaker 1: So the MAVs should rehire and fire Nico Harrison. So
I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I'm of the why not mine because they gave up
afterthought assets and you could say, well, they're cost controlled
assets and it's I mean, it's the number thirty pick
in this year's draft you have. I this is gonna
come down to two things for me, because you could
you could be concerned about the on court fit between
Alex Sarr and Anthony Davis. As an example, Sars not
a good enough shooter yet, but he will shoot it.
At the same time, well, that's why you bring in
Trey Young, because there's very few players who when they're
even a ze forget about his scoring efficiency, where he's
a semblance of healthy, his ability to make chemistry with bigs,
to work in tight spaces, that'll help both of them. Yeah,
you should have concerned, well, how how much is he
gonna be on the ball? What does that mean for
Keyshawn George? What does that mean for Trey Johnson? What
does that mean for this year's first round pick? Those
are absolutely concerns I think, looking at what we know
right now, one give the Wizards up front office the
benefit of the doubt. What have they done to short
circuit anything since Michael Winger and Dawkins took over the
Other thing here, too, is a lot of it kind
of also rests on, well, what do they extend them
four and if they decide not, let's just say they
don't extend them, Trey Young plays out his player option
leaves for nothing. Anthony Davis plays out his contract and
leaves for nothing. Okay, there's also a chance that even
if they don't sign an extension, let's say Trey Young
plays out next year on an expiring contract. Isn't there
a chance they get more than c J McCollum and
Corey Kispert for Trey Young?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, yeah, right, So absolutely. Here's the other thing.
So the argument you might we probably have made in
similar situations was like, ah, man, now you're just getting
in the way of the reps and the development for
these guys, these young players you have while worsening your
draft picks. So you're you're you're diminishing your chance at
getting another cornerstone player, right, That's what that's That's an argument.
That is that is if you wanted to make that
argument against this trade, We've done it, and it makes sense.
Speaker 1: We'll do it again too.
Speaker 3: We'll do it again maybe within the hour. The thing is, like,
I'm fascinated that that maybe this is a different way
to operate as a rebuilder, because like I think we
we like Keishawn George, we like Alex Aar, We've we've
loved bilall Coolbally. I'm not sure where we are on
him at the moment, but.
Speaker 1: I don't think I like him as a friend.
Speaker 3: I think I think he seems like a nice guy,
probably good listener.
Speaker 1: He changed his Andrew Tate adjacent reading habit.
Speaker 3: You can't lead me down these roads.
Speaker 1: I don't tell you about just a basketball player, all.
Speaker 3: Right, just the basketball player that really threw me.
Speaker 1: But podcast ruined.
Speaker 3: We've also never really been convinced that any of those
guys is like well that's the guy, right, We're like,
maybe you got a squint or like, well, I could
see him being a number two or a three on
a good team. So if that's what you have, what's
wrong with bringing in some guys that will probably help
you win the Wizards should? I mean, what's our expectation
for their record next year? Five hundred? Maybe better? Like
who knows could injuries have? We'll have a lot, right,
anything's possible. So maybe you at these these these prospects
that you still like but aren't sure about, as like
cornerstones with a capital C. You get them some reps
in meaningful games which matter, or like more meaningful anyway,
which matter, and you might get a better sense of
what role they should ultimately play, right Like, like, if
Sar becomes undeniable, it's like, okay, great, But if not,
it's like, Okay, he's getting used to the role we're
gonna really ultimately want him in. And the reality of
it is, teams are Teams can get their cornerstones at
sixteen or at twenty or a or at eleven in
the draft. It doesn't need to be the number one pick,
right like, so you can kind of have it both ways.
I'm interested to see if we see more rebuilds get
short circuited in this particular way where it's like short
term commitment what we did, maybe we should move there.
We probably said enough on this trait the Mavericks side.
I know you hate the Mavericks side, and I want
to let you cook for a minute.
Speaker 2: The only thing I want to add to the was
is I actually think the only reason to give this
a demerit would be you think that their cap space
was going to go further than this, And the answer
to that is just no way to like. The answer
is just no or And this to me is the
most valued point. You think that they're going to just
give these guys extensions that should not be signed, and
then we can revisit this if they do. As of
right now, I'm just willing to give them the benefit
of the doubt. We do want to go to the
Maverick side of this. I was I said this while
I was doing Did I.
Speaker 1: Say it to you or did I just post it?
Speaker 2: I don't remember diverging from consensus more often than I
did this trade deadline, and it actually makes me feel
really bad, like my stomach was churning because not that
I want to have hive mind, but you feel more
confident when.
Speaker 3: I feel like you're missing something right.
Speaker 2: And everyone's like man Dallas, like yeah, they did it,
and I'm like, what, here's my thing?
Speaker 1: Yes, this you have to well, you don't have.
Speaker 2: To like, yeah, let's look at the Luka Danc's trade
tree because it's hysterical, but you do have to evaluate
this deal independent of that. What we don't have to
do is evaluate it independent of oh, hey, Patrick Dumott income,
he had enough information in the off season to realize
that they fucked up and Nico should have already been gone,
or that they could have traded Anthony Dave and excuse me,
that they could have traded Anthony Davis for more than
what is probably going to be a first round pick
that is number thirty.
Speaker 1: And I understand they got a lot of.
Speaker 2: Salary off the books. Congratulations, I understand you don't own
your what are you doing? They don't have enough flexibility
to where you're gonna go out there and sign a
big name in free agency because hey, Grant, guess what,
that doesn't happen anymore for starters too. They're not dealing
with that type of flexibility just yet. And you're also
not going to just necessarily acquire someone to expedite your
timeline because you don't control your own first round pick
after this year. Again, until I think their's is twenty thirty,
maybe it's twenty thirty one, I.
Speaker 3: Can't remember, long time. Whatever it is long time.
Speaker 2: So I just think that they Even if you separate
this from the lukadancicch trade, you are not going to
convince me that you couldn't have gotten more for Anthony Davis,
either over the off season or more critically, had you
been willing to take Let's let's use the Raptors as
an example. I understand the Yaka Pertole deal goes on forever.
Do you think it would have ham struggl the Cooper
Flag timeline that much if you were getting three first
round picks up from the Raptors and so if you
didn't like I'm just using them an example. If he
didn't like them, fine, if you think this was the best. Now,
if you think this was the best deal out there,
Because I do believe that front offices are not actively
in the business of choosing deliberately worse deals, I guess
this one did last last year, but it's a different
front office.
Speaker 3: They just didn't They just didn't seek out other options.
Speaker 1: Right, are you going to tell me over the off season?
Speaker 2: First of all, I don't buy into this idea that
there's no way Anthony Davis could have come back healthy.
And if this was his value, you're telling me he
had no chance of rebooting it. I know he hasn't
looked great in Dallas. I know that him and Cooper
flag fit isn't great. That's I totally understand that more
teams have flexibility in the summer, more teams can talk
themselves into.
Speaker 1: Weird shit over the summer.
Speaker 2: And this wasn't a can't miss return, and their books
aren't just like when you kind of look at it,
it's not like they're squeaky clean moving forward. So it's
I hated this for the maps. I just I do,
or I don't think it doesn't. They're not any worse off,
but they're also not any better off to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're moving Anthony.
Speaker 2: Davis, I need to be able to sit here and
say that, yeah, you're definitively better off.
Speaker 3: So I think I'm with you. I would say that
if the if a component of your distaste for this
trade involves So the further maybe the better way to
frame it is the further back you go, the easier
it is to just get to an f if you're
grading this trade, you know, like if it's in analyzing
what they could have got had they traded him before
the season, which they should have, which they didn't because
Nico Harrison was still there and he was pot committed,
or if they just the further back you if he's
Luka Doncrits instead of Anthony Davis, like you just go,
you go all the way back, it gets worse and
worse and worse. What I I think I agree with
you completely on is just just just not seeing this
as like the best value you're gonna get for Anthony Davis.
Like flaws and all, and pretty clear clutch pressure campaign
to get him out of there and all. It seems
like a couple components were at play here that to me,
like I wanted to make sense because I want to
believe that, like these people are competent that are making
these decisions they and they are to to almost one
hundred percent certainty, Nico Harrison's not there anymore. I think
he made an incompetent decision, but like I just I
just can't get to someone would need to explain to
me what the drawback would have been waiting to the
off season, Like I don't I don't understand. It's the
same Yiannis logic. It's like Chris Middleton, those those offers suck,
don't accept them, like you. I gotta believe Anthony Davis
could have gone for more had they waited, So it
seems like they wanted to turn the page. That was
a factor. I think fair they like And I don't
know how you weigh that. It's not like an analytical concern.
It's just like, we gotta not be this. We gotta
not do this anymore. We need to like scrub the
hard drive of any like cookies that involve Anthony Davis
or Nico or Luca or anything. We have Cooper flag. Now,
let's just look at that and not anything else that
happened before. And Anthony Davis being around is like, oh right,
remember that. You know, I think that was a huge factor.
And it's the only thing that starts to make it
like understandable that they took what they got for him.
Speaker 2: You know what, I might be understating the importance of
the turning the page factor, because now it's just you
got this out of the way, and the Lukadantich trade
like the Lukadantichch trade can now because that was part
of the narrative.
Speaker 1: It had to be exhausting for everyone involved.
Speaker 3: That's still a rash decision though, right, Like that's not
a logically based decision. That's like an emotional decision of like,
I don't like how it feels to have to think
about this anymore, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So would you have made this deal or would
you have waited?
Speaker 3: I would have waited. I would have waited, And you
know what, this is a terrible deal, Like it's just you.
You aren't getting anything.
Speaker 1: Dest Bain was drafted at number thirty.
Speaker 3: Grand I just said you could get a cornerstone at sixteen.
So what am I saying?
Speaker 2: Here's my other thing, too, is that I think we're
passed at least the way that the CBA is currently
set up, and we were all wrong. It is not
nuked the trade market. It has killed free agency. But
what I will say is some people say, see, you
said it made trades harder. As someone who grades every
single trade. It is absolutely made trades harder. It is,
and there's like a third team involved, and it feels
like everything. I want to ban second round pick swaps.
Those are stupid and not cool. And I'd also like
to institute a band on. If you're going to report something,
you have to report the details.
Speaker 1: No more.
Speaker 2: Vita Zoobox was traded to the Indiana Pacers, then waiting
fifteen minutes to tell us for who that is?
Speaker 1: Bs Anyway, I don't think players tray.
Speaker 2: As an example. Anthony Davis is now an example. You
want an extension, Okay, cool, you're not getting one. I'm
all for players if they can get one, Yes, Simon
one negotiated. Why do you feel pressure to because if
this is the return you're gonna get for Anthony Davis,
why do you feel what we got to extend him?
Speaker 1: Because what if we lose him for nothing? You just
did What's different? You just did it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't abscribe to that logic anymore.
Speaker 2: I want to say something nice about the Mavericks, though,
I did think they made a smart move doing Malachi
Brandon for Tias Jones, and they wouldn't have had the
flexibility to do.
Speaker 1: That without moving Anthony Davis. That's not the reason to
move him.
Speaker 2: But and by the way, they did get off the
Hardy deals, as you mentioned, they did get off the D'Angelo.
Speaker 1: Russell player option.
Speaker 2: But I think Tias Jones he's not what he's been
in Orlando, and he's not really even what he's been
in what he was in Phoenix. I think just if
there's someone who plays adult in the room basketball, it's him.
I think that will benefit Cooper flag if Derek uh,
if he well, Derek lave he's not gonna play again
the season, it' help Daniel, It'll just help everybody. So
I thought that was a good move, even though I
was not a fan of the Anthony Davis move.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Uh, let's I guess. I guess Europe, you get
to choose now, just a tight twenty five minutes on
one trade. So far, we're doing great.
Speaker 2: We're doing We did three. We did Giannis, the MAVs
and the three teams. That's fine, all right, Let's do
Garland for Harden. Yeah, let's start with the Calves because
we have other stuff to get through with the Clippers.
Speaking of me, I don't know if I diverge from
consensus on this grant. But my reaction to the Darius
Gorn for James Harden trade was a big boatload of
why I understand that James Horn is the better player
right now in theory he gives you better title equity
right now. I don't think he improves your title equity
enough to go all in on right now. To the
Darius Garland is ten years younger. I know he's developed
injury struggle struggles. Both of us had him on an
All NBA team last season. So I didn't view this
and something did still come out for sure as Oh,
the Cavs know something is sinister up with his ankle
because they they I know it was a second round pick.
They touched a pick to Darius Garland to get thirty
six year old James Harden.
Speaker 1: This very much wreaked of.
Speaker 2: They're worried about Donovan Mitchell leaving a requesting out if
they flame out in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I you know what this? Go ahead, Yeah, go ahead
say it.
Speaker 3: It's like see painting a scene. Guys, Donovan's gonna be
pissed off and he's not gonna stay if if we
have a colossal playoff flame out. What's the solution, James,
James Harden is the solution. What like that?
Speaker 1: You trade you?
Speaker 2: You because if he suggested it, you trade Donovan Mitchell
at that point, if he's the one telling you to
go dravon.
Speaker 1: Look, James Harden is durable and really good. So I
don't mean to denigrate him in that sense, but did
you acquit you? You have to pay James.
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear about Darius Garland two years
left on his contract, James Harden and we have to
get into the Clippers and did the aspiration stuff dictate
anything they're doing with their trade deadline? But James Harden
wanted out of LA because they weren't gonna pay him,
and now you're gonna have to pay him.
Speaker 1: He's just older. It's so I hated this move.
Speaker 2: I under I understand it if you didn't think Darius
Corn was ever gonna be healthy for this season. But
if you make a trade like this where you get
ten years older and are trading someone in that deal,
the younger player who was just in the All NBA conversations.
Speaker 1: Last season, that's a problem. That's a real problem.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. I just so The problem with the
like the bit that I just did about like making
fun of the Cavs for like James Harden is the
solution to our playoff disappointments, is that, like it's the
most hack sports talk radio take there is. But it's
like it's kind of you could stop the analysis there.
This is a dumb trade because all James Harden does
is disappoint in the playoffs and then asked to be
traded if you don't give him exactly what he wants.
And the Calves are just signing up for that. So
to me, what could go wrong? What could go wrong?
Speaker 1: This?
Speaker 3: Really? Again, I want it to make sense. I want
to believe these are rational actors. The Calves have to
be so convinced that Darius Garland is done as as
like an all star player and like these toe injuries.
It's both great toes that have had issues. Now he's
a small guard.
Speaker 1: Maybe you call them great toes. That's what they're called,
great toes, called the great toes.
Speaker 3: Called the great toe. Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2: I don't want to I don't want to overstate this,
but I think you just changed my life.
Speaker 1: I didn't know this at all.
Speaker 3: But Darius Carl Darius Garland's great toes not so good there.
So maybe the Calves are just like this is never
getting better, which is like, I don't know how you
know that maybe they do. And if that's the case,
this is still a crazy trade with too much risk
for me. So that's as close as I can get
to making sense of it, I will concede Garland. Garland
is an inferior player to James Harden right now today.
Uh so, so I get, I get, and like maybe
at some point the playoff disappointment streak ends like.
Speaker 1: Salty who says we need feet picks for garlic. Oh sorry,
I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to justify it for the Calves, and it's
just it's it's difficult. It's the kind of thing where
I think you you said, like, if this is what
Donovan Mitchell wants or he's out, then I think it's
time to say, like you can be out, Like this
just isn't worth it, I don't think.
Speaker 1: Because there's a chance that it much if this blows
up in your face.
Speaker 2: So now like at least you would it anyway, right,
you would have been left with like Darius Garland and
Evan Mobley and then if you decide to keep Jared
Allen there, I understand there was pressure, so I kind
of the I'm sorry. The only way this works out
a short of them is either they win a title,
and if they win a title this season, you never
have to apologize or Darius Garland has just cooked.
Speaker 1: Which I just I'm sorry, I refuse.
Speaker 2: This is the first year of his career that they've
been worse with him on the floor.
Speaker 1: You don't I'm not just prepared to throw away that track.
Speaker 2: I understand the injuries, and I also understand that, like
the James Harden jokes get a little tied. James Harden
has been fantastic this year, and he's gonna lighten the
load upon Donovan Mitchell. I think the chemistry he'll have
with Jared Allen will be great. I mean, should see
how him and Evan Mobley work together and how this.
But he's gonna slow you down too, like in that like,
so if you want to play it a little bit
more of a er neetic pace in certain situations that
all of a sudden needs to happen only in secondary lineups.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a it's a big risk. I didn't
like it.
Speaker 2: What did you think before going on the Clippers about
the rest of their deadline, the cost cutting. I don't
think it wasn't a huge opportunistic cost but they are
very very not wing heavy, is the best way that
I would describe it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well so I yeah, I guess I think we
I don't know if we talked about it. I thought,
I think Kean Ellis is probably a more valuable player
than DeAndre Hunter, Like, even without the monies involved.
Speaker 2: Here, you're right, but it's he's like, you're right, but
it's all there's something just I feel better about putting
DeAndre Hunter on a wing than I do of putting
Kean Ellis on.
Speaker 1: He can't guard anyone who's really got much.
Speaker 3: Bigger than him, And to be honest, he made more
sense on a team as as a third guard that
had Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland because he just comes
in and guards the other backcourt player that you don't
want either of those guys to guard in the sort
of when you have one or the other on the
floor shrewders. I don't know. Whatever. Yeah, I think some
of the cost cutting I can get behind. So am
I forgetting anything else. They dumped Lonzo effectively, they're gonna
be able to convert PLoud in right, Yeah, and I
think which makes sense.
Speaker 2: Do you view any of the Garland stuff or anything
that they did, I think certainly maybe the Hunter thing.
Do you view it as a real vote of confidence
and what they've seen from Jalen Tyson this year?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and even Tyson, I wish you were just like
more of a definite wing than he is, Like I
wish he had a little more size, But yeah, that
has to have been part of it. And that's a
that's a decent bet to me. Again, it all made
sense to me just right up until you decided that
James Harden is the answer to your problems. Because the
best you can say about James Harden is he's the
answer for a minute, and then he is the problem.
So the Cavs are just gonna be waiting for that
shoe to drop and it could happen, like it could
happen in what what two months, and we're just gonna
be looking at James Harden is gonna ask out and
Donovan Mitchell is signaling he's not gonna extend, Like we're
not that far from that that eventuality, we're.
Speaker 2: Gonna move on to the Clippers, and we should talk
about their trade deadline at large.
Speaker 1: Let's also we know what they traded for.
Speaker 2: They got Darius Carlin and a second round pick for
James Harden, who says he didn't request the trade, but
it feels like he requested a trade. I'm not gonna
throw it all on him, but at the very least
it was a mutual parting of the ways. They also
traded of each a Zoo bots to the Pacers. They
traded Viacha Zoo Botch and Kobe Brown to the Pacers.
Four Isaiah Jackson, Benedicmathrin, Indy's twenty twenty six first round
pick that they will only get if it falls between
five and nine, and then if if it's not between
five and nine, it turns into an unprotected twenty thirty
one first round pick. They got Dallas's twenty twenty eight
second round pick and then an unprotected Indiana first round
pick in twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 1: I don't actually this deal.
Speaker 2: I've we'll talk about the Pacers next, obviously, but this
deal I look at it and and yeah, that the
Clippers just had to make it. I don't, but I
think so I'm curious as to what you think though
about Like what that so that you turn James harden
I vias A zoobots into two Indiana unprotected first round
picks Bennet mcmathrin and Darius Garland and two seconds.
Speaker 1: I like, that's a really good trade deadline.
Speaker 2: And what I'm more interested is, like, I think Darius
Garland if he's healthy. I saw a lot of people saying, well, yeah,
they're probably gonna look at trading zoobots now that they
have Garland, and I was like, well, Darre's Garland, if he's.
Speaker 1: Healthy, is still like an All NBA type player. They
could still just be good.
Speaker 2: So are they not planning on him playing anytime soon?
The fact that they moved zoobots does it?
Speaker 1: Like what that Like?
Speaker 2: That's what I'm just trying, like, so they don't control
their own first round picks for the next few years.
So I'm just and GWI still on this team. It's
just a little weird, right, Like what does you read
on their direction it?
Speaker 3: I think maybe the simplest place to start is where
you started was just saying, this is just an offer
you say yes to because you're getting an unprotected future
first and maybe enough and you're getting two firsts and
one of them is unprotected or I guess the twenty thirty.
Would the twenty thirty one be unprotected if it doesn't
fall in that narrow range? Yes, in twenty six, so
you might be getting two unprotected future first from a
team that India Indiana is gonna be good. But who knows.
That's that's far enough out where we like, what if
tyres Haliburtn's never the same? You know, I don't know
like that, that's that's not impossible. So there's real upside there.
And Zubots is at best your second best player on
a decent team, third or fourth best on a on
like a real contender. You know, I think you just
do that. I think one thing this reflects not to
get on too much of a tangent here is that
like Trey Young doesn't get you any picks and it
beats the Zubots gets you too. Unprotected firsts, like teams
are just really making it clear that you need to
fit into a system, not cost a lot of money,
and be just easy to work around. And that's worth
a lot. And if you're not that you're not worth
nearly as much.
Speaker 2: You're to your big contract point too. You could make
the case that the Clippers got more for Vita Zubots
than the Grizzlies got for Jaron Jackson Jr.
Speaker 1: Just because of the value of those two picks.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of it depends on your, uh,
how you feel about Benedict Mathern.
Speaker 3: Sure, Sure, And I think it's just if you're looking for,
like what are the repercussions of the apron era, Like
that's kind of it, man, Like what the Zubats trade
versus some of these other like in a vacuum, much
bigger names, much better players, the returns, much bigger salaries,
big factor. I think this is just indicative of like
this is this is what value looks like now, and
teams are I say, they're getting smarter about it. It
feels like they're getting this is just what the preference
is now. I think this is this is what first
we'll go for in the in this era. So what
are the of the Clippers like broader plans. I don't know, man,
I'm with you. It feels strange just because of all
the things I said about Zubat's value, like the Clippers
should view him that same way, right, Like he's obviously
a valuable piece. He doesn't he doesn't like cramp your books,
and and he's a winner, and like you've just been
very good when everybody's healthy, and he's been a huge
part of it. So I don't know, you can get
real conspiracy theory focused and say like they gotta go
get everybody else's picks because they're about they don't have any,
and they're probably gonna lose more, uh with when the
aspiration punishment comes down. Maybe that's it, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: How you the theory.
Speaker 2: My favorite conspiracy theory is that they think Kawhi's contract
is going to get voided, So.
Speaker 3: Why why have any vets at all? Here?
Speaker 2: Like so my whole thing was I look at it
as twofold. I actually look at it through this Lenes.
I kind of the conspiracy theory is funnier. I wouldn't
say I'm rooting for it, but that's that's cooler to
talk about.
Speaker 1: That would be better for content.
Speaker 2: But I actually think the zub like the hardened thing was,
they probably didn't seek it out.
Speaker 1: It was sort of thrust foisted.
Speaker 2: Upon them and if you can get Darius Garland, who
there's just a chance. We look back at this as
like an all time fumble by the Cavs and just
an all term heist by Clippers.
Speaker 1: So you make it.
Speaker 2: Then this trade comes along for Zoobots, and it's well,
how do we say no to this? Because and I
think part of this is the logic they're making the
play in no matter what, just the way that the
team's behind them are not trying to win. There in
ninth place right now, maybe the Warriors jump them. And
so from the Clippers' perspective, let's say you can't keep
that team intact. Or let's say Darius, you did the
hardened trade Garland's healthie, you keep Zubots, maybe you could
get into the playoffs so that you get the right
to be trucked by the Thunder or the Nuggets or
somebody else. So it sort of felt like them reading
the room of Okay, we're gonna make the play in anyway,
this isn't shortening our season by much, if at all,
by doing these things. And finally, now that you did
take on Garland's money, We've talked a lot about their
twenty twenty seven flexibility moving zobots. They we have fifty
million dollars basically and guaranteed contracts on the books for
that year. It's forty four point nine for Garland and
Isaiah Jackson's at six point four. That's the only guaranteed money.
They will pick up others, but like they can go
into twenty twenty seven with absurd amounts of cap space still,
So this is just that's how I look at it.
But I do find the aspiration element interesting. We do
have Grant, a fellow attorney of yours in the comments, though,
saying as an attorney, I candissry that the Clippers have
no fucking idea what the NBA is thinking as far
as punishment unless there have been non public depositions of
sorts incriminating the clips. I would the latter surprise you
based off knowing that we've heard the law firm has
interviewed Pablo Torre that there's just been these deposits.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: So, yeah, I don't know. I would assume, I would
assume the Clippers have a rough idea of like what
and of what might be possible punishment. Wise, I don't
think they can know you know with with a high
degree of certainty. The only thing everybody said it, but
like the only thing we know for certain is that
there's nothing coming out till after the All Star Game
like period, so that that's the only given in this
whole thing. As you were describing, sort of, well, a
couple offers came in for the Clippers that they just like, well,
we have to take this. I think it's interesting to
think about it through the lens of like sometimes you
don't get to choose when your rebuild starts, Like sometimes
it just chooses you. And like this one just kind
of rolled up and and yeah, okay, trade hard Zubots.
Speaker 2: Like sure if they view it as a rebuild, though,
why is Coli still on this team?
Speaker 3: I'm sure, Well, because nobody's gonna trade anything for him,
because who knows, he might retire.
Speaker 2: We've said, we've said it, he just might Like if
you trade him to the Kings, he's probably gonna retire.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, Well that that, and it's just like whatever
happens with the Aspiration fallout might just make him like
someone you cannot have on your team. Very surprising.
Speaker 2: I thought they had an excellent trade deadline and the
final note on them is they're like less than two
million dollars from ducking the tacks. Now, so somebody getting
traded on draft night. I don't know who, but somebody is.
Do you want to talk about indie side of this deal?
We're not grading things. I was writing it and I
still hadn't figured like it's the longest blurb, in part
because I thought I had to do a standalone article
for them too, and it turns out I didn't.
Speaker 1: For anyone who cares.
Speaker 2: It is the longest fucking analysis I wrote because I
find it so fascinating, and I settled on.
Speaker 1: This was too much.
Speaker 2: I don't know that this was the guy Haliburton's coming
back from a serious injury. For as much as I
think Zobots brings to the table, there's heft on the glass.
Maybe they offensive rebound now. I'm actually not worried about
him playing up tempo like the Pacers aren't. They're not
going to first of all, blitz full court all the time.
But he's just he played in a faster paced Clipper
system before. I mean, look at the first half of
last season or whatever it was. I just look at
it and say, the fit with him in Pascal Siakam
is not super intuitive. His contract is great and it
lasts another two We're like a year away from talking
about what if a vi'sa Zubas doesn't sign an extension
or something. And what I struggled with was, was it
if it.
Speaker 1: Was one of these picks?
Speaker 2: But the fact that it was both Mathern seemed to
bug Pacers fans like losing him some people more than
it bugged me. It's the pick equity here, because you're
in real trouble if Tyre's had because your timeline horizon.
I know you have Tyre's Halliburton, but Pascal Siakam's not
that young. And are we sure that Tyre's Haliburt can
just come back and meet Tyre's Haliburton after that Achilles injury?
But I did the one thing that I really wanted
to ask you, aside from your overall thoughts, is is
it better or worse that let's assume they keep this
year's pick. I'm just gonna assume it's like a fifty
When you look at the odds, it's like a close
to a fifty to fifty or sixty forty proposition, Is
it better that they kicked out the commitments or do
you view it as worse that they did that?
Speaker 1: Well, I.
Speaker 3: We feel pretty confident that I think it's probably better
that they kicked it out because if you trade that
twenty twenty six first without all these protections, and you
it's number one, which it could easily be given where
the Pacers are, you just you can't live with that,
right Like that, that's kind of where the analysis stops
for me. It is kind of like the definition of
kicking the can down the road, because it might be
number one in twenty thirty one, but that's a long
time from now, and that's future Pacers problem, right. I
just think I think you can't. You can't have a
season like this and risk losing a pick. As high
as this pick might be. There's still a possibility though,
which is like very scary if you give if so,
if it's five, it's gone, like that's tough, that's a
tough look after this season.
Speaker 1: But if it's six, you're okay with that.
Speaker 3: No, I'm just like the highest possible pick that you
could lose in this construction. I I do agree that
my first reaction was like, Zubats is okay. Everyone was
saying the Pacers want to center, Wanta Center want to
Zubots doesn't fit my like what I think of when
I think of how the Pacers play. But I wonder if,
like that's just too narrow of a way to think
about them, because like, well, they who's to say they
have to play exactly like they did during that finals run? Right,
Like there aren't a lot of Miles Turner types and
he sucked in the finals and everybody's mad about that.
So like maybe that wasn't ever gonna work for them
to get where they wanted to go anyway. That's a
tough sell when they made it to Game seven, But
so that that was kind of my counter to it.
The other thing is I wonder if as they look
around at the league at large and the rest of
the East and they see Jalen Duran and Isaiah Stewart
and they see Mitchell Robinson and kat and they see like,
maybe we do just need a bruiser, Like maybe that's
just something because they don't have that and they're playing
right like maybe we run into the Nuggets, we need
somebody with size. I do think there's merit to that
of just like, Okay, the idea that you can only
have a spacing center, and we got to play this
incredible read and react offensive system that got us so far,
Like that's the only way this can work. I don't
know if I buy into that. So so I I'm
I have reservations about Zubots being the guy and giving
up to potentially unprotected first, but I'm open to the
idea that, like, there's a world where the Pacers are
actually even better with Zubots than they were with Turner.
I'm just I'm just gonna need to see it. So
so I'm not like I you know, you wrote on it.
You give him a D plus for this, I'm not
that far off of that. I'm in like the Sea
range somewhere. It's not a perfect fit. But but maybe
maybe it's not. Maybe it's not as like incongruous as
it seemed to me at least at first.
Speaker 2: I applaud like the thinking, but I love when teams
are aggressive because they think that they ye have it.
Speaker 1: And you you could ant like the East isn't I.
Speaker 2: Don't think it's gonna get any easier when the Celtics
should be scarier next year. Somehow the Pistons aren't going anywhere.
The wizards are coming. We just said that the wizards
are coming. Who thought not.
Speaker 3: Making I'm sure how long they're gonna stay when they
get here, but they're coming.
Speaker 2: So I applaud I applaud the Pacers doing this. I
just maybe it was the right time. I just don't
know if this was the right player to give up
this much for. We do have a question, this is
a fascinating question from Regulator eighty six eighty. What could
the Pacers get for Siakham if they decided to trade him.
They don't like paying the tax Yeah, By the way,
That's the other thing is, if you're a team that's
doing something like this, the salary of Zubots is probably
more important that Pacers than a lot of the other teams,
because Indy's just not going to.
Speaker 1: Pay tax bills through the teeth.
Speaker 2: I will say, just you, I think you could look
at this one of two ways and be like, well,
look at what Anthony Davis and Trey Young and even
Jared Jackson Junior got and you're not going to be
too inspired by some And then you could say, well,
look at what Zubats got and Pa Pascal Siakam's an
all Star without Tyre's Haliburton. So my answer would be
on it don't know, but if I had to guess,
it's gonna be less than this what they gave out
for Zubots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the age and the salarym if we're if.
Speaker 2: Maybe we're learning first round picks, but you're not getting two.
Basically you're not getting two unprotected picks for pascals. I'd
be pretty shocked if that's what happened.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be shocked, I just wouldn't call it likely. Yeah, yeah,
that's it. But if they go turn around and trade Siaka,
I'm like, I don't I really don't know what to
think of the Pacers duct the tax another way, like, I.
Speaker 1: Don't get that one.
Speaker 2: I also think and so uh Pdpte says in the chat.
As a Pacers fan, I know rebounding and the lack
thereof has been.
Speaker 1: Really big for a Carlisle. Yeah, Zuboats will help with that.
Speaker 2: They they're gonna be they should be a force on
the offensive glass if they're allowed to, because even if
they're not allowed to crash, if each Zubots will just
do it on his own and that that should be fine.
But I'm also looking at it. I think you could say, well,
are achilles injuries what they used to be?
Speaker 1: Maybe they're not.
Speaker 2: But you also kind of look at the rest of
this roster and it's all right, TG McConnell's gonna be
what next year thirty four? They're not like the wing department.
Ben mcmathern is gone and was never really a wing.
I know Jars Walker's played a little bit better, but
where he's not a wing, you have aaron Ne Smith
still is like your premiere.
Speaker 1: What is what has Ben Sheppard become?
Speaker 2: You still have this year's pick potentially, which, oh man,
this makes me feel like shit.
Speaker 1: Andrew oh video under Andrew.
Speaker 3: I was gonna put him up there, and first of all,
just shout out the work he's been doing for us lately.
He used the what's the guy's name sentinel from The
Thunderbolts when you said void on what it was like
this he's doing. Just golf check.
Speaker 2: Go check out our shorts and share them with other
people too, because Andrew's doing great work and he deserves.
Speaker 3: He also points out the correct way to put a
bow on this discussion, because he cited an authority that
it's unimpeachable.
Speaker 2: Everyone go tell Kaitlyn Cooper that I finally disagreed with her.
And now now I'm immediately going to agree with Henry
because he just.
Speaker 1: If that's the problem.
Speaker 2: Though there's certain people and he's probably none with this
team and Caitlyn, it's none more so unsettling than not
having that. And if I had listened this year, I've
tried very hard not to consume anyone else's content before
doing this pod, let alone my own grades. If I
would have read or listened, I don't even know what
she put out, I guarantee I would have came in
here be like, yeah, fucking pacers, man, they know what they're.
Speaker 3: And here's why, because he would have gotten a really
good explanation.
Speaker 1: Uh sure, where do you want to take?
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm up. Let's see. Okay, we did that one.
Well we gotta do Jaron Jackson.
Speaker 1: I think that start with the Grizzlies because I'm I'm
a little confused.
Speaker 3: Okay, so the Grizzly is just here's the particulars the
Jazz are getting Jared Jackson, Junior, John Conchar, Jock Landell,
who got rerouted. I'm still in a haze right, Yeah,
he did. Vince Williams Junior, and the Grizzlies got back
Kyle Anderson, Walter Clayton Junior, Taylor Hendrix, George Niang, the
Lakers twenty seven first, that's got top four protection at
twenty seven first, which will be the most favorable of
the cat or Wolves and Phoenix's twenty thirty one first.
So for who you want to do the Grizzly side
of this first, Well, because I think.
Speaker 2: They're they're interesting in the sense of not only they
trade Jared Jackson Junior, but John Moran.
Speaker 1: Is still there. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean there just must have been nothing, right, just nothing,
because they would have I think they would have just
given him away for neutral salary, don't you think, Like.
Speaker 2: Now, aren't you at the point unless I guess they
can't get the same amount of pressure that the Mavericks
were getting from Anthony Davis. But this felt more like
a turn the page situation than Dallas is with Anthony
Davis to me.
Speaker 3: But they didn't turn like it needed. You mean, they
needed to turn the page from me.
Speaker 2: And I'm talking about Jaw. I didn't Jared Jackson, I
could have gone. I the messaging is so mixed because
I don't know what it says that they renegotiated and
extended him and then ended up and everyone's defense was, man,
they got off that Jared Jackson junior contract. Yeah, but
they just fucking gave him the John rant. You don't
I under I saw. I did see some of the clips.
I can't remember who it was. It was it Sam Bessini,
or maybe it was Zach Low, maybe it was both
of them framing it as this all went to crap
because John Morant was no longer an All NBA player.
And I don't disagree, but how long have they known this?
This didn't just come about this season, And not only that,
but Memphis trading Desmond Band in the offseason and tried
to spin it as like a mini reorientation in part
because they did renegotiate and extent Jaron Jackson Junior. And
just one more thing, Your draft track record awesome, cool,
Zach Eedie when he's healthy looks great. Jalon Well's hit,
Cedric Coward hit, They have all these hits.
Speaker 1: You don't.
Speaker 2: You seldom hit on trades, including this one. And you
also just they talked a lot about I think Keith
Parrish is spot on. I try to think more deeply
about like the logistics of roster building and direction. But
they sold the idea of we're gonna spend to really
build around this core. They never did it. Their biggest
swing was Mark is Smart and when it blew up
in there, like they've made trades where they've had to
cut cost and they've tried.
Speaker 1: To cut corners. This is just I'm sorry, this is
shameful shit by them. This is I wouldn't this deal
if you wanted, like stop doing half bait crap, like
you didn't even tear down fully. John Marenn is still there.
Speaker 3: So again though, I just think they they probably weren't
a position where teams were asking for stuff with jaw
and it's just like we'll just pay him and he'll
sit and whatever. Right, Like, I don't know, maybe maybe
we don't need to get too far because we just
can't know what those offers were, or maybe we will someday.
We don't know. Now, the Jared Jackson side of it,
I'm trying to I think we both probably were okay
with that extension, right. I wish this will shock you, Dan.
I can't remember exactly what I thought when we discussed
that extension, I think I don't go ahead.
Speaker 2: It was we both viewed it as an inflection point of, oh,
this is something they're definitely going to negotiate, and they
didn't like. He just got what he got basically, and
so it seems fine. But in the close like this,
the current cap climate and more importantly the Grizzlies current
situation snuck up on nobody, including the Grizzlies themselves.
Speaker 1: And that's because Grant.
Speaker 2: Look at this return Walter Clayton, an older rookie who
the theory of Walter Clayton has yet to really bear out.
In Utah, Taylor Hendrix is supposed to be an undercooked
Jaron Jackson junior, who I actually think my record is
saying I think he will be better than Jaron Jackson junior.
Speaker 1: So I'm clearly wrong all the time.
Speaker 2: But he hasn't been the same since that leg injury
last year. And then you got look at the picks
they got. They have one pick with upside. It's the
Phoenix twenty thirty one, and it's cool to we both
or I'll spe for me. I over romanticize those distant
picks all the time. Phoenix doing what Phoenix is doing
right now is almost a cautionary tale against Yeah, like
they have half a decade to get even better.
Speaker 1: So this was just if to me.
Speaker 2: This felt like an almost turned the page trade for them,
but then you didn't fully commit to turning the page.
And that's just I and the messaging. Like at the
time when Desmond Bay and Jaron Jackson Junior and John
Morant were there even kind of close to what they
thought was gonna be the peak or they hadn't peaked yet,
you never you never made good on that promise. You
never got Your biggest swing was Marcus Smart. And even
at the time, everyone knew that wasn't That wasn't it.
Even if you had higher hopes than disastrous for Marcus Smart,
everyone kind of knew that wasn't it. And so this
organization is again rational thinkers are in charge. I'm sure
Zach clement Is the areas they're drafting has been very, very good,
but the way that they've gone about running their team
independent of that seems exceedingly poor.
Speaker 3: It feels, doesn't it feel like this move was based
on what they got back, This move was motivated out
of like fear that my God, Like, what what kind
of dire straits are we going to be in when
he's making fifty million dollars a year, Like we're gonna
have to salary dump him for nothing like Anthony Davis
or like right, like or it'll be worse than that,
or it'll be like a cat situation where it's like
this guy can't be your best player, but he's gonna
be making fifty plus and and it's just like he's
untradable and and it is crazy that that was a
risk or that was something Memphis seemed to be afraid
of so real, so quickly after deciding, yes, let's pay
him this money, and and so soon after I think
I would have said, like, yeah, that's a lot. But
you know, you don't really have to make any concessions
when you build around Jaron Jackson Junior. You get some spacing,
like he's a good defender, you get, you get, you
get all this stuff. So it's like maybe maybe that's
okay because he doesn't come with the same like it's
a big salary number, but it's not as like restrictive
because you just throw anything else out there next to
him and it kind of works. So like there's you know,
we always love to fetishize like scaley and portability, like
he has all that, so it's it's okay, yeah, fifties
a lot for you know, per year, but like it's justifiable.
And then it seems like based on this trade, they
they decided like oh no, no, no, no, we can't oops,
like yeah, this isn't this is gonna get so bad
if we don't trade him right now. Uh, which is
just like it's whiplash. I don't I don't understand it.
Is this a package? Like I guess I don't know
if it's a fair question, but like could they have
gotten more somewhere else or had they waited? I I
just I don't know. Do you think probably know? Because
nobody wants it's it's.
Speaker 2: Here's would you have preferred, like because you opened up
the bidding all of a sudden two if the Knicks
come calling with two first round picks and other stuff.
Do the Spurs the teams that are you're waiting on
with the Yanna sweepstakes? Do you think Atlanta or the
Spurs less so the Raw I mean, like those are
all teams that could give you more, but even like
wouldn't the Lakers, maybe they'll have three first round that
once you prefer the three first round or now Lucas there.
Speaker 3: So here's you know what this is. This is unfortunate,
But I'm I'm just coming around to like your stance
on this of like, don't pay him this if you
think there's a remote possibility you're going to be in
this position, Like they could have negotiated, right, they didn't
have to do this, that the renegotiating extent they they
could have given him less, like they could have made
I don't know it. You know, I'm hesitant to like
knock the trade because it maybe didn't need to happen
had they acted differently in like a previous transaction cycle
with respect like what they paid him and all that stuff.
But it's hard to split that up when it was
so recent. So I'm getting lower on this trade. The
more we talk about it from the grizzly side, it's
harder to justify.
Speaker 2: I think it's one of the trades where you do
need to factor in like kind of the entire like
package of what happened because it was so it's not
we're not grading this because of the like we're not
we didn't We tried to demarras Mavericks too hard because
they moved Luka Doncrich for Anthony Davis. This is just
you assigned this value to this guy and then let
him have one underwent surgery after you did it, and
now all of a sudden, it's this and it was
the messaging is mixed. And I also just stop selling
draft picks when it's okay, like you draft, Well, where's that.
Speaker 1: Gotten you here?
Speaker 2: So I do want to talk more about because this
is another I saw people were skeptical of the Utah
Jazz doing this, and I think this was the trade
where I started to not realize because I think we
both knew this, but it just became clear how much
we romanticized the teardown over the swings of going forward,
Because what do we say about the Jazz when they
ripped off the Donovan Mitchell and rudiygo bear.
Speaker 3: Band aid, love it great, love it excellent.
Speaker 2: You've spent the past four years getting mad, not you specifically,
but mad that they're not losing enough. Now they or
you don't want to see them tank this hard. They
go out and they make a swing without him to
any of their own draft picks. Okay, I'm open to
the ide yeah, that Jaron Jackson Junior is overpaid.
Speaker 1: The Jazz still have all their first round picks.
Speaker 2: Moving forward, they can find a way to assemble cost
controlled talent around him.
Speaker 1: But what I keep coming back to the fact here is.
Speaker 2: They're not like Latry Market and Jaron Jish. You have
enough time left on their deals and they're still young
enough to where if this doesn't work out, you're not
trading them from the same position of weakness unless there's
a catastrophic injury, which is always the caveat. You're not
trading them from the same position of weakness as a
Trey Young or Anthony Davis for two reasons. One, neither
of them. Both of them are way more scalable than
Trey youngess Two, neither has the injury history or is
as old. Is it they won't be as old as
Anthony Davis when their current deals run out. And this
is a team where it's it's it's also time like
you can't. They weren't gonna do anything other than complete
trades with their cap space, and you have we talked
about this. I mean, first of all, for anyone who
likes this trade, and as a Jazz fan, you're welcome
because we manifested it when we or trade deadline primer.
But two the like they're trying something that's objectively cool
because Ace Bailey, Larry market In, Walker Kessler, I'm assuming
he comes back to Jaron Jackson Junior. You're just monstrous
at those four positions. And I think what's another good
point too, is the Jazz have done everything most things
i'll say within their power to ensure that they can
get these top picks, and either the lottery gods haven't
rewarded them or they've been better than expected. And I
think this year, while the record doesn't necessarily reflect it,
Keyante George is just turning into Oh, maybe that dude's
gonna be an All Star?
Speaker 1: Doesn't that kind of know? Because what do you suppose
that nudges you in this?
Speaker 2: What do you I said they should have traded Kiante
George months ago, and I was at the point, do
I view anyone on this team as untouchable leading into
this deadline?
Speaker 1: Ace Bailey probably for sure? But what were you support?
You trade him?
Speaker 2: Like the whole point of going through this process is
arguably to fine someone like him, and I think their
biggest issue right now is it's the same as the
Wizards after all this. Yeah, I don't think you can
point to a single guy and say, we know he's
our tent pole of the future, the best player on
a contender. But you know what can one In the
Jazz's case, like the Wizards, they have this year's pick.
But I think Ace Bailey, I know, is just a rookie.
I think I'm higher on him than any single young
player in Washington.
Speaker 1: I love Keishan, George.
Speaker 2: And Sar, but I think with Ace Bailey, what he's
shown when he came in, my thought was just he
was gonna do like all these ball dominant things and
not be the connector complimentary type.
Speaker 1: And it's it's flipped. He's done like defense, rebounding, cutting,
all that stuff.
Speaker 2: So I look at this and say, well, if you
assemble enough combinations of just like twos and threes in
terms of the pecking water, you're just gonna be really
fucking good. Anyway, there's real value after four years of losing,
going out there and contending for fifty wins and look,
maybe it blows up in their space, but this is
a swing I respect and I thought the fact they
didn't have to give up their highest upside pick that
they gave up is that Phoenix they gave up to me,
they gave up one high upside pick. Maybe your mileage
varies on one of those Cleveland slash Minnesota picks, but
that's where Matt.
Speaker 1: I've loved this trade for them. Yep.
Speaker 3: I like it a lot. I think Andrew points out,
you know, they are asked they need to keep this
year's pick, right, uh yeah, and and I think they can.
And I think you can kind of have it both ways.
And that that frames this for me, as Jaron Jackson
is just like you said it much earlier. Okay, Utah
has cap space great like well, if ever, if anything's valuable,
it's Utah having cap space, right like, He's just he
just fills in that spot, and so you can get
him be ready for next year. You can still tank.
And here's the thing. Oh, we're not gonna the jazz
are like, we're not gonna pull any Shenanigans this year.
Don't If they do, now, nobody's mad because you're already
you know what next year looks like. And you and
I think fans probably want that pick because they know
there's light at the end of the tunne. Because you've
got Jaron Jackson, you're gonna walk Kessler back. Keante George
is super fun. You can be excited about that for
next year. So now you can tank and no one's
gonna care. So you're gonna get it both ways. The
fit is weird, I think, but maybe not a lot
rests on. I said this when we when we spoke
this deal into existence, Like you don't have good defenders
at every position, being big is a pretty good like
second option. And if Marketing is your three and Jackson's
you're four, and Kessel's your five, and Bailey, maybe he's
gonna play some two like that might get the job done.
And offensively, we as we all reiterate Lori Marketen basically
is a giant guard and so you can use him
just like you'd use a great off the ball movement
shooter who can drive it, and like he's that's fine. Offensively,
I have no no notes. This is gonna be. This
is gonna work on offense. Will Hardy's gonna finally get
to like coach without a hand tie behind his back.
They're gonna score a ton defensively, I think they should
be good enough. I don't want to guess, but they
should be average at worst, I would I would assume
on defense, I think.
Speaker 1: That there's a bet, not a.
Speaker 2: Do you think that we overvalue the importance of point
of attack defense just because of how good those guys
who are the advantage creators are even when they're going
up those So I feel like we see more and
more teams where it's look, the knicks are flawed. But
with Jaylen Brunson, the Pacers, with Tyre's Halliburton last year,
and I know that they have Andrew Nemhartz, I guess it.
Maybe maybe Utah still needs its Andrew nemhard type. But
I can't think you's gotten a little bit better defensively.
But I think there's also just it's probably more what's
more important to have Matt, let's say, Max Christy guarding
at the point of attack or to have that jumbo
sized front, Like what do you think provides more defensive
value for you to We.
Speaker 3: Always say that the interior positions matter more on defense.
You like you the Rudy Gobert can be a defense
by himself. A men Thompson can't be if you want
to just cite like the you know, the gint essential
rim protector versus the like perimeter pest that can guard
a bunch of positions. So yeah, like again, I so
the fit makes I'm not I don't hate the fit.
It's just it's like, all right, market In's the three.
But then but then you can you don't have to
play all these guys forty eight minutes in conjunction. Right
when Kessler's off the floor. You can get away with
Jackson and spot minutes at the five against certain guys
you're not going to rebound, but whatever. Yeah, I think
this is a win for the Jazz. I love them
going for it. I love them saying like enough is enough. Basically,
we like we're tired of like having to try to
lose on purpose because we're actually a little too good,
Like that's no way to live. So if for no
other reason, I like this because it puts an end
to that era of Jazz basketball, which is like nobody
wants that, nobody wants to kind of look at a
team and say, seems actually pretty good. It sucks that
they have to try to lose, you know, I for
several years in a row no less like, now that
we're past that, I think I think maybe that's the
biggest selling point of this trade, is like the Jazz
can play for real now, like no more messing around.
Speaker 2: And and I just to wrap it up with my
initial point was, I just think they have so many
outs if it doesn't work out, and if you're worried
about the expenses, which we didn't really talk about, you
don't get prohibitively expensive. And by the way, this is
assuming that Walker Ketch was coming off a season ending injury, Like,
I don't know how much he's gonna get. It might
be less than we think. Kiante George if he signs
an extension, might be less.
Speaker 1: Than we think.
Speaker 2: Even if those dudes get a boatload, you have another
You have next year to figure it out before you're
prohibitively expensive. Ye, did you have any notes about the
rest of their business? I thought they did a good
job getting more seconds. Those are good finishing touches. But
I do think their trade deadline was an abject failure
because if you're gonna acquire Chris Bouchet, you better damn
well keep him on your roster.
Speaker 3: Just f minus, what do they do it negates it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So honestly, I think they should have to. I
think the NBA should void the Jaron Jackson Junior, not
not the trade his contract. So the assets are going
to Memphis, but the but Jaron Jackson Junior is avoided.
Speaker 1: He's a free agent just to send.
Speaker 3: That's not how we treat Chris Bouchet. Guys, he's he's
a special treasure and he deserves better treatment. Is it
your turn to pick?
Speaker 1: It's my turn.
Speaker 2: I think we're we don't have any major, major ones
that we missed, right, So what I'm gonna go?
Speaker 1: Here? Are you ready? You know where I'm going?
Speaker 3: I hope.
Speaker 2: So let's let's talk about the Golden State Warriors Grant.
So they trade Jonathan Kaminga and Buddy Healed for christophs
Porzingis they finally got their floor spacing rim protector Grant?
Speaker 1: Will he play? Who's to say? Well? I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say anything about this trade. I
just I want to hear you cook.
Speaker 1: What did you think?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 1: I don't know what I so well that was his climactic.
Speaker 3: This will have my hands on my head. So I'm
really struggling. Uh. I love the Porzingis fit. I don't
love the complete uncertainty about how much he will play ever,
or the fact that he's an expiring contract. And there's
a part of me that wonders whether this was just like,
I don't know, we gotta pay buddy Heel three million
dollars next year. This way we don't have to pay
anybody anything if we don't resign Porzingis. I assume, uh,
the intention is to sign him when he hits free agency.
I don't know what because you I'm just I'm messing around.
You can't make this trade unless like you're gonna keep him.
If they do keep him and he is healthy, I've
already talked myself into like this is gonna be spectacular. Question,
go ahead, Why do you have.
Speaker 2: To make this trade with the intent of keeping him
because you were dead set on keeping Jonathan Kaminga with that.
Speaker 3: No, because because if you if it was just about
saving money, you just declined the team option on Jonathan
Kaminga and and paid. But he healed the three million
dollars he's guaranteed of his nine million dollars salary next year.
Speaker 1: That is a great point, Cary, that apologies.
Speaker 3: That's why I mean, no, it's that. It's so I've
talked myself into Porzingis being a perfect fit. He's exactly
the player that they've wanted forever. Uh and if he's healthy,
I'm interested. He's maybe the last guy in the league
that like, okay, that Draymond Green might actually still be
a vibe able offensive player if you have him out there.
That's so that zoomed out. It's wildly disappointing that this
is what Jonathan Kaminga ultimately got them, the guy that
they wouldn't trade for Lari Markinen or god knows who
else that was available along the way. I wrote about
this today. It's just like you know, you can you
can lay blame at the feet of the executives, Bob Myers,
I guess that, or Joe lacub who maybe put his
thumb on the scale that picked Kaminga, or Franz Wagner
that picked him in Moody over like Shangoon and Trey
Murphy and Jalen Johnson later in that same draft class.
Speaker 2: I think, based off of imy Erdoko's postgame press conference today,
I think he'd be willing to give you Opera and
Shangoon if you're interested.
Speaker 3: I didn't see that. Did Shangun do a bad thing?
Speaker 2: They have not been impressed with Alprin Shangun defensively since
see Adam's injury.
Speaker 1: The question, one of the questions I clocked was what.
Speaker 2: Did you make of them going at Alprin Shangun like
targeting him the pick and roll. He's like, it just
happens all the time, but this isn't new.
Speaker 1: What's the question? It's just like, oh, man, like tough love.
Speaker 3: Uh, you can you can blame Steve Kerfer not playing Kuminga.
You can blame the team and the lake ups for
I don't know, not just pulling the trigger earlier. This
is where they were. And if if it's this desperate
and it's probably Porzingis or nothing, give me Porzingis. I
think that's fine. I just it doesn't change the bottom
line as far as this year, probably just being like okay,
there's not really a point, like I'll just full disclosure,
like I'm not going to tune into many Warriors games
the rest of the year because I sort of get
it and I got to spend my my my hours
on other stuff, other teams that are more interesting, right,
I don't know you're gonna say, and that's a totally
hornets for one. No, yeah, yesh, yeah, I don't. I
don't know what else to say. Really like, I I
like the player, I like the potential fit everybody. I
am with everyone else. As far as the questions of
like is Porzingis ever gonna play consistently again, Like, I
don't know that that's an open question this trade.
Speaker 2: Andrew says, when they got Porzingis, I thought there were
one thousand percent going to get Yanis. I looked at
it the other way because I think the.
Speaker 3: Porson said it was the other way. They said it
right away, and therefore we're out.
Speaker 2: Because all the reporting was they were gonna use Draymond
Green and Johnathink gaminga is the primary matching salary and
Yannis deal, and that just made sense because Jimmy Butler's
injured and not gonna so the Bucks have no use
for him to begin with, and you're not gonna get
other value for him, so unless the Bucks just wanted
first round picks that badly right now.
Speaker 1: So that's why I looked.
Speaker 2: At it as no, like this is because Jimmy Butler's
not gonna get it done.
Speaker 1: This puts an into it.
Speaker 2: But porzingis in theory if you're trading for Giannis and
you're keeping Draymond Green to like, yeah, you want him.
If Jimmy Butler was healthy, this would have been the
perfect Yet I like it. I think it makes them
more interesting and I'm just wondering having him in your
back pocket.
Speaker 1: It opens up some opera.
Speaker 2: If you make a big swing this summer, the ability
to resign him is a pretty big deal.
Speaker 1: Now. The problem is is.
Speaker 2: That if you're making a big swing, it's still well,
who can we get that's Draymond plus Moody plus whatever
others maybe Al Horford on the books or with Jimmy
Butler as an expiring contract. So I don't know what
the appetite is if we knew Jimmy Butler was gonna
play before Christmas, Like it's but I like the trade
up for the Warriors. But I'm with you that I
don't think it materially changes anything this season. But I
think he's a good play because this wouldn't have been.
Speaker 1: Available to you had they waited, because he would have
he was a free agent. So like doing it now.
I think in getting his bird rights.
Speaker 2: If he does play, he's not getting thirty million dollars
as his next contract, So I think doing this sets
you up. It doesn't guarantee anything, but there's optionality there.
Speaker 3: Right, because there's a world where like their big off
season free agent target is Porzingis, and this way, it's
like it can be somebody else because you can You've
got his bird rights so you can keep him and
then you go with someone else. Yeah, what about is
there any I mean, oh, can we can we get
to talk about TJD and get to the Hawks? Trace
Jackson Davis got traded for a second, if we're just
closing the book on the Warriors, Well, it was.
Speaker 2: So like that's because he wasn't really playing anyway. But
I was kind of like, oh, it's Porzingi's the guy
you trade him, and it's like we're okay trading other
bigs now?
Speaker 1: Is that really?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: There was that?
Speaker 3: I kind of think Pat Spencer was up against the
fifth of the game limit and they needed to convert
him maybe, and so they needed a roster spot although
they well they got they thank you for one. So yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, now they.
Speaker 2: Could be players on the buyout market too, so we'll
have to see what happens with that. But the Hawks
on this end, so they did trade Luke Cannard, so
they don't have like fac similes of Canard, Corey Kisspert
and Buddy Healed on this roster.
Speaker 1: Now the fuck are they doing? What this team is?
They just feel like.
Speaker 2: They're spinning there. I hate Jonathan coming got on this roster.
You have Dyson Daniels, you have Zachary Resiche, you have
Jalen Johnson.
Speaker 1: What is Jonathan known for?
Speaker 2: Not spacing the floor, not doing enough rebounding, too much
on ball work that isn't efficient enough. Those are exactly
like all the boxes that the Hawks need to check
and he checks none of them.
Speaker 3: I mean, put a broader definition on it. He what
does he not want to do? Second option shit? And
like guess what, buddy, this team has Jalen Johnson and
a Keil Alexander Walker and both of those guys are
way ahead of you in the pecking order. And they
have Zachary Rechiche, another former number one pick that I
don't know how good he is anymore, but like he
matters more to the Hawks than you do, so it
it I don't see an avenue for him to do
what he wants to do, which for him, it's like,
I'm sure he's glad to get out of Golden State
because anywhere is better than there as far as he's concerned,
but like this is not necessarily a better situation. There's
like there's a lot of the same roadblocks here that
he had in Golden State. And so from Atlanta's perspective,
is this just like screw it, We're not porzingis is
a zero for us. We're not gonna re sign him.
We might as well take a flyer and see if
like Kaminga just turns into the player that that got
drafted where he got drafted and tantalized occasionally, like what's
the risk is is? I mean, that's that's not a
crazy plan, but it's just it's hard to see it
coming to fruition with the guys they have playing ahead
of him. I I just I don't and then say say,
they're not in a position to do this, but like
all right, we're gonna start shutting guys down or we're
a like there's injuries and Kaminga like goes off, he
like does the Anthony Simons down the stretch in Portland
a couple of years ago, or like throw out the
jail and Green Special, the Jalen Green Special. They're like,
oh my god, it happened, except it happened in March
and nobody was watching and nobody on the other side
carried right. So so like what if you're the Hawks,
what then? Because what do you what did you really?
What have you learned?
Speaker 1: You haven't learned anything.
Speaker 2: So I give I liked them getting chocoland to help
anybody cares. But the only the only argument that I
could come up with was Porzingis was gonna be a
free agent. And if you're the Hawks and you want
to make trades this summer, having the ability to pick
up the Kaminga team option to guarantee Buddy Heals deal,
that's the only like, like, that's the only lodge. I
don't I don't think like if you're bringing back Jonathan
Kaminga next, like if if he's not traded over the
off like that's the it's not just that's the only.
Speaker 1: Justifiable Oh why they do that? Is that what's happening?
Speaker 3: They just have a thought Kaminga was in negotiations with
the Bucks, presumably right at right Atlanta. Atlanta says, Hey, Bucks,
guess what we got it.
Speaker 1: We got your guy.
Speaker 3: You know you like him. He's more tradeable to Milwaukee
than Porzingis's salary, which you can't trade because it'll be.
Speaker 1: They'll be the team watching his March explosion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, well this is it. You've figured it out.
They're gonna let Kaminga go bonkers down the stretch and
then offer him in a package to Milwaukee for you. Honest.
That's what this has been about. A plus Hawks did it.
They figured it out.
Speaker 2: But other than them wanting to like have salary to
trade this offseason, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think this is gonna go well.
Speaker 2: And if it goes well, I'm gonna be very curious
to see how it goes well very quickly, because they
did ship out, uh Lukenard.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that deal?
Speaker 2: For the Lakers gave Vinton In a second round pick
for Lukenard, who notoriously will probably help improve their defense.
Speaker 3: I think yeah. I mean, he's one of the best
shooters to ever walk planet Earth, and the Clippers or
the Lakers, you know, could use some knockdown shooters. But
like everywhere, Lukenard Goes. I always say that, and then
he just doesn't play as much as I think he's
gonna play. And it's because he can't guard anybody. And
the Lakers already can't guard anybody, so that's a tough one.
Speaker 1: But who on the team can. So it's like you
know what I mean, like, well he'll play, Yeah, so.
Speaker 3: He'll play because they don't have a better defense alternative.
They just have similarly bad ones. This solid logic, I
don't know. I like him better than gave Vincent in
a vacuum. So because he has a signature, he has
a legit, Like, yes, he has a superpower. I just
don't know how much it's gonna be utilized, right because
he he just weakens an already weak point for for
the Lakers.
Speaker 1: I will say I wish they would have gotten a
big I would have loved could they have done something
like Portland would have done this deal for Robert Williams
or something like.
Speaker 3: He didn't get traded by the way Portland did.
Speaker 1: The one move they made, well they got Vic Krachi.
Speaker 2: We should have led that off with the I really
liked that trade for them by the night. But so
I will say I think the Lakers were smart not
to do anything that was. Whether it was I don't
want to care if they added money, but no, like
don't trade a first round pick, wait for the three
first round picks to open up this summer. So I
think they were smart. And they also for their offense
being really good. They're not really a high volume or
particularly accurate three point shooting team, and so Luke nar
brings them. It's a multiply fine. Yeah, it is now
your turn, sir, oh man, it was for us. Can
we just talk about like.
Speaker 1: We're pacing this really we are, just we are cutting
through it.
Speaker 3: I mean, the big ones are done. I like, I'm
trying to think what I would even nominate next? What's
the most about that?
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to talk about the Bulls at some point?
Do we want to start with Vouch to the South Celtics.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the biggest I guess, yeah, that's the biggest name,
depending how you feel about Kobe White. So Boston gets
Vouch and a Nuggets twenty seven second uh from the
Bulls for Anthony Simons twenty six second, the most favorable
of Minnesota, New Orleans, New York's and Portland's I don't
know you felt about this. I really like this For
Boston they just needed another big and he makes sense
in the way that they kind of like the play offense.
And I am by no means of Vouch, So you know,
I feel like I knock him ten times for every
one time I talk him up. But I think the
price was right. I think Simons is a good player,
but I feel like Boston just needed it another center
because like Kita has been fantastic.
Speaker 1: Like he should still be starting out.
Speaker 3: He should still be starting. Yeah, I just it's like
if it so now instead of Garza or whoever are
you playing small with, like Jordan Walsh at the five
or what was it, Amari Bailey? They just converted I
think is that who that was?
Speaker 2: They tried Josh might not, I know, he wasn't playing
basically after Christ they tried him at the five at
one point.
Speaker 3: Vouch makes sense can do. The defense is not there
at all, but it's like offensively, you can kind of
use him like they used Horford or even not pousing
GUIs because he doesn't have the like mismatch busting thing.
But like the price to me made sense. It's a
position to need, they can afford to lose Simons, and
they cut some more money. So I think that's a
total win for Boston, right.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's because Simon's was playing well,
but I just think you said it they needed another
big You cut money in the process, and I think
you this is one of we talk about weighing the
bigger picture. They ended up like giving up Anthony Simons
and then what did they finish a like down two
second round picks total.
Speaker 1: I think, and they got out of the tax they
started out.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to applaud a team for getting out
of the tax, but for this season specifically, you're still
contending for a top two spot. I think Simons's absence
gets papered over a lot if Jason Tatum comes back
this year, just between having Peyton Pritchard and if Derek
White makes shots.
Speaker 3: If Derek White makes shots, like all right.
Speaker 2: I think he was he was expended because were you
gonna pay him and bring him back? I don't think
they would have. And it fills a need like the
rebounding from Boots for sure, and in a pinch, like
you could still run some things through him, but the
fact that they were able, they still Bobby Marks posted
this Their salary and luxury tax bill was projected to
be five hundred and forty million dollars this season. It's
now gonna be under one hundred and ninety million, and
that they didn't give up a first round pick to
do it right, and they're down whatever it is in seconds.
I think for me, then they're gonna have to play
like the ten day contract game when I was looking.
So the math is gonna be tight, but like they
figured out how to do it. So this doesn't count
towards a repeater o' clock here. You do have the
ability to be cost repressive next season two as you're
trying to figure out what does Tatum look like. I
think that's why it's valuable for him to come back
this season. I don't want him going full bore, but
he can come in and play the Anthony Simon's role.
Speaker 1: If that's what you need done, that's fine. So I
liked what they did.
Speaker 2: I did see Andrew in the chat said, why couldn't
we have just kept Cornette if we were going to
drop Simons?
Speaker 1: I mean you would how would that have what would
that have looked like?
Speaker 2: Because you ended up trading Drew for you needed to
take back somebody in the Drew holiday trade.
Speaker 1: That's why. So that like that money was coming in.
Speaker 2: And look, the contracts of porzingis and holidays and even
holiday more so were considered net negatives and they got
like a at one point they were supposed to get
picks back in the holiday trade. So I thought this
it was a lot of bookkeeping, but in their situation specifically,
We're not a podcast that normally is gonna like applaud
it to no end. I thought this was a probably
like a bookkeeping master class from Bradston.
Speaker 1: They're not worse to.
Speaker 3: Me normally, it's like, oh, good for you, you saved the
owner money. But like this was just hard to do
like that, this was an example, like this was an
extreme case and they did it, and so yeah, I
think that's it. And look it's happening as the team
is kicking it like is way better than it should
have been. So it's just like at some point you
got to you gotta just give it up and say,
like they're making all the good decisions just across the board. Somehow.
Speaker 1: We move on to the Chicago Bulls, who traded some guards,
but somehow still have all the guards on the roster.
Speaker 2: Kobe White gone, iol just Dome move gone, Vooch gone.
They got a trillion seconds. They got a pick swap
with Minnesota.
Speaker 1: So was it right now?
Speaker 2: I think if the season ended today they could move
up seven spots. They did a lot, and they also
have Colin Sexton, So it was just I I can't
wait to talk to you, like that's the trade. I
want to ask you about the Kobe White recalled, Like
is Kobe White that's more of a Hornets question, But
is he enough of an upgrade from Colin Sexton for
them to give up all the like a handful of
second round picks.
Speaker 3: It's a little weird. Yeah, yeah, so general, I saw
the clip of our tourist karnashov Us saying we don't
want to be in the middle basically I'm paraphrasing. And
the moves the Bulls made were pretty off brand for
a team. It's almost like the Bulls finally like I
don't know, like cracked open the window at the office
and like heard fans down on the street saying, like
get out of the middle, and oh, okay, you know,
four years of kind of the same thing, chasing plans
and becoming just like certainly here but everywhere else just
the the first team you'd point to for like what
a just incredible lack of ambition, you know. And that's
not to say that trading a bunch of expiring guys
or being in a position where you have all these
guys expiring and their values are lower so you only
can get back a bunch of seconds. That's not to
say like, you know, masterstroke, great roster building. But the
Bulls did kind of act in the way that we've
been wanting them to act for, you know, like they
they moved these salaries, they got flexible, they have cap space.
They they like, Josh Gitty's gonna make twenty five next year,
and I forget who the next highest salary is, but
it's in the teams, and it's you know, they're gonna
pay Jade and Ivy. You get a second draft guy
in Jade and Ivy very much like a proper like
Sane with the times, rip the band aid off, rebuild right,
They're off the treadmill, it seems anywhere they act like
a team that wanted to do that. So yeah, I
think I'm happy with it. I you know, the returns
are not going to blow you away. But the process
that got them I think is finally the one that
everybody wanted to see, right. I don't know that that
feels like kind of the conventional take, but I think
that's Oh Patrick Williams, sorry Andrew, who knowes Patrick Williams
salaries on the books? I try to block that out
as much as possible. Except for that, Except for him,
everything's great.
Speaker 1: I thought he was going to be their starting center
at one point. So it's just and.
Speaker 2: Look, I could quiver over certain things, like I would
have preferred I know what their center situation is now.
I would have preferred them to have kept Usman jang over,
like expanding that to get Nick Richards. But it's this
is I wouldn't even call it a baby step. This
is a fundamental shift in their thinking. And the Kobe
White I think you could sit here and say they
could have gotten a first round pick for him at
some point, Yeah, they could have, but they ended up
getting three seconds in Colin Sexton basically who I don't know,
Like Colin Sexton, you could do you resign him and like,
do you get more seconds FM him and move him later.
Is it like someone as someone coming off the bench.
I know they have a ton of guards and we
know they're all not going to be back, but I
think that for the most part, this is if you're
a bulls, they haven't done the hard part yet. To
be sure, they need to stick with this path and
k not go. Are they gonna do something stupid over
the summer now with their flexibility. It's not like they
got any blue chip assets as part of this. But
to hear them say and then to actually act like
there don't want to be in the middle anymore, that's
big for them. And then the other thing that they
did was incredible, and Andrew in the chat just reminded
me of it. Like at first I kind of clocked, oh,
Dale and Terry was expiring. They took on Yabuseli's player
option for him they did need front court help. This
was before the Nick Richards trade got expanded. Yabu sell
he declined his player option. I guess he really wanted
to leave New York or has a lucrative offer overseas.
And then he did proceed to like just score and
double digits immediately when starting for the Bulls tonight.
Speaker 1: There's just this was really really good for them.
Speaker 3: So sorry if you forgot to mention Rob Dillingham, another
second draft guy.
Speaker 2: But at some point it's like, so you have Josh Giddy,
you have Rob dilling you have Jane and I being like,
what is this all?
Speaker 1: This is a team to be fast.
Speaker 2: At some point, just for the Lulls, you gotta throw
out five point guards, right, it needs to happen?
Speaker 3: Why not? Absolutely? I mean, uh, I want to see
Bizillis at the five though, when you just play four
four point guards, that would be fun.
Speaker 1: Oh fine, I guess, I guess we do that. So
I want to talk.
Speaker 2: Let's move on to because there are a few spinoffs
from this team. Let's do the Hornets. Okay, for the
the freaking Hornets. I'm honestly, the thing that I'm mad
about is that the Hornets weren't more aggressive because they're
so damn good now, winners of eight in a row,
as we record, they they made em Udoka basically demand
that the Rockets trade Outprin Shangun after the deadline.
Speaker 1: That's what.
Speaker 2: That's how good the Hornets are. What did What do
you think of the Kobe. They did other stuff too,
They picked up seconds. They my comedy staw on this
roster for now. He might end up back in Minnesota.
That's probably the team we need to talk about next.
Speaker 1: What do you think? I don't They didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 2: I'm just how What do you think makes Kobe White
that much more valuable to specifically than Colin Sexton? What
is it just he's younger and the theory of him
as an on ball guy is better because when.
Speaker 1: You take into the data, do you know who's better?
Speaker 3: It's sex thing. Yeah, I don't know what in my
mind Kobe White's a better player than Colin Sexton. But
when you look at the numbers, and I think Mike
Sheer made this on the on his Basketball's poetry Substack
made this point of like, you know, it's it's really
like fourteen points at sixty one true shooting versus eighteen
at fifty eight, And it's like, you know, different flavor,
different strokes for different folks, is not really that different.
I get. But again, though I think Kobe White's better,
if pressed, I'm not sure how I would justify that case.
I just think he's a little better. But is this
a position of weakness for Charlotte, Like what well, I mean,
that's that's another element of it. I don't know that
they needed a guard.
Speaker 2: I don't coming off the bench though, I think if
he wanted to say, Kobe White is better than Sexton,
because one, I think on the ball, he has more
side to side ample than a Colin Sexton who's more
north south. Yeah, I actually think that you Kobe White
is the more versatile passer, even if the assist numbers
don't add up to it, like Colin Sexton feels like
it needs to be very basic stuff or spray out
of drives. The other thing that I think is important
is you can use Kobe White off the ball fundamentally
differently compared to the way that you can use Colin
Sexton off the ball. And so as someone who's coming
off the bench, if you ever want to try and
go three guards with Konkinippo LaMelo ball, Kobe White to
me makes more sense than Colin Sexton. You're not losing anything,
and he's by the way, he's also younger. I don't
know how much that now he's twenty five or in
his age twenty five season, So I I think I
gave this deal like a C plus or a B
minus because a lot of it is theoretical. But when
I think about it from the Hornets perspective, I like
the Kobe White fit beyond this season a lot more
than I like the Colin Sexton fit beyond this Okay,
maybe that's maybe that's.
Speaker 3: Where my preference comes from. It is, so that was
what I was gonna ask you. Do you assume that
they intend to keep Kobe White? And is that necessary
for you to like this trade? It has to be
right because they gave up more stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean yes, I think so.
Speaker 2: That would be The other thing is they they might
wind up like net even in seconds based off some
of the other business that they did. But yeah, by
the way, I love the bit of them just acquiring
former Thunder players who don't stick. So Usman Jang was
a member of the Hornets for like a hot minute.
Now he's a member of the uh, the Milwaukee Bucks.
So but yeah, you have because you gave up I mean,
the pick equity ends up being a twenty twenty nine
second least savora bowl of Charlotte and Denver. Denver's twenty
thirty one second in New York's twenty thirty one second.
So those are that's two seconds that you could talk
yourself into being top forty two. And so yeah, you
better bring Kobe White back. If you don't, maybe it's
because you made a bigger move. And but that's but
that's the bigger takeaway here is I know their offense
is receiving a lot of credit. Grant, they're like top
five and around the top five to top eight in
defense since Thanksgiving. Now you know what you're gonna say,
opponent three point shooting Dan was your two foil.
Speaker 3: At But but I sound just like that when I don't.
Speaker 2: But the offense scoring so efficiently allows their defense to
get set and Charles Lee is a madman if you're
able to get your defense set, and I think it
helps the emergence of Mussa Diabade has been huge. I
think Brandon Miller's probably be more solid than that. Even
LaMelo Ball just hasn't. But you have I haven't watched
as often. It'd be like, h gross, so having getting
some minutes from I mean gross. I know people have
kind of fallen out of love with him, but they
do have like also just sort of those pests where it's, oh,
if we need just pure defensive anarchy, here's Seon James.
Speaker 1: This team is approaching like and I would have.
Speaker 2: Made the case before the Jazz made their move, before
the Wizards made the Anthony Davis trade. I would have said,
if there's a team where they have this discordinate timeline
relative to buying at the trade deadline, but they should
ignore it.
Speaker 1: Who is it?
Speaker 2: I absolutely would have picked the Hornets, and I will
pick the Hornets leading into the offseason again, because this
team might be coming.
Speaker 3: Oh they're oh yeah, they're on the short list for sure.
The offense alone is like, okay, we got to kind
of take notice of what these guys might be.
Speaker 1: Are you concerned about their defense? Though? Oh?
Speaker 3: Just I need to. It needs to happen for longer.
I was actually wasn't going to go for the for
the three point thing. I actually didn't have that stat
top of mine.
Speaker 2: But that probably The other thing is I was a
little surprised they didn't get two first round picks for
Miles Bridges, but they didn't trade them for nothing, so
we still stall on the roster. Do you want to
do the Timberwolves next? They're kind of another team that's
spun off of the Bulls.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So we mentioned Rob dilling gone, he goes out
with Leonard Miller for Iodasummu and Julian Phillips. So is
there anything else going on? Yeah?
Speaker 2: So the way to look at this for me is
they traded Mike Conley and a twenty twenty six swap
to the Bulls. They also traded four seconds Leonard Miller,
Rob Dillingham and it was all to get Ayudusumu. It's
and Julian Phillips.
Speaker 1: If you assign any value to him, I don't. When
you saw the.
Speaker 2: Mike Conley trade, my impression really was, oh, like, what
this team is gearing up or something big.
Speaker 3: I thought it was a honest precursor. Is there they're
getting like things set up to get where they need
to relative to the Aprons or just like that. That
was my That was my kind of hopeful thought. Well
not hopeful because I wanted the Warriors to trade for you, honest,
but like that would be the most interesting way for
that to have been spun. But but it did not
go that way. Is that did you go there too?
You must have gone there.
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure if it was Yiannis or it was
like were they was it just someone we weren't talking about.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Jake Fisher alluded to that bam out of bios on them,
was like, there's something going to be like happening manage.
Speaker 3: Well we deduced that again he didn't want he didn't
want to aggregate it.
Speaker 1: And just don't tag us because we want him to
still like us.
Speaker 2: So when you look at it through that where it's so,
as Andrew points out in the chat where he's asking
Mike Commlegue can resign with the Tarry Canow because they're
not his former team anymore, the uh the Bulls are right, Well.
Speaker 3: I bet you he yes, I bet you he will right.
It seems like that was all drawn up in advance.
So here's so let's look at it this way. Is
a twenty twenty six swap four seconds. Leonard Miller rob
Dillingham worth extra financial flexibility and I would to soon
move because and I excluded my comics.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna assume he comes back.
Speaker 3: Maybe if maybe a lot depends on if Dillingham is
going to be anything at all. But well, let's put
it through. What the Timberwolves care about right now. Rob
Dillingham was not going to be anything at all right now.
Dessum MoU isn't perfect, but we tried to trade him
everywhere because we like him and he makes sense and
he does address a backcourt spot that I think the
Wolves needed to address when you lay out all the assets.
So it kind of sounds like a lot for dis
soun MoU, doesn't it? Is that what you're getting.
Speaker 1: At you better resign him, right well.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, I mean you can't. Well yeah, I think
you do have to resign him. Is kind of like
Kobe White and charge like you better intend to keep
him around if you're doing this.
Speaker 2: I'm just they could have done My old thing is
I guess from struggling, is they could have figured out
a way to do this exact thing without dropping down
in the first round to trade Mike Conley, which I
guess will tell amount so that they could have Mike
Conley at a cheaper rate is basically what it amounts
to for me. So because I'm look the Dillingham thing,
that's another sunk cost that it's sort of like, you
don't want to let the Luca trade inform so much
of how you feel about the Anthony Davis trade. You
can't let what they gave up and where they drafted
ROMed like it wasn't it wasn't happening in.
Speaker 1: Minnesota, and it was a miss.
Speaker 2: I would assume who doesn't have as much on ball,
jiggle and joggle as a Bones Highland or Rob Dillingham,
But he does the best of when you look at
Mike Conley, Jallen Clark, Bones Highland and Rob Dillingham, if
you needed someone to blend as many of the things
that they do as possible, you would have, like maybe
Cam Spencer would have been a better fit, but you
weren't getting him.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious to also see, like what does he cost?
And we've decided goha.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, big Santino notes, it's not that
they messed up on I. You're speaking my language. I
forget who laid it out. Maybe you saw this, but
but essentially, if you assume that they are keeping IOH
and they're gonna pay him market rates, which might actually
exceed what Alexander Waller is getting right now, so you
need to get more than naw, No, it's not making
that much, dude, Like it's under the mid level.
Speaker 1: So you think Io gets more than the mid level.
Speaker 3: It'll be at least close. And so the argument was,
like they could have just kept Non not had to
do all of this.
Speaker 1: Why not just dumped Dillingham and like do this in
the fruit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is persuasive to me as an Alexander Walker
accolyte and early adopter.
Speaker 2: Now, but yeah, Insite's twenty twenty. But the problem is
is that in the moment it was pretty twenty twenty
that losing No was gonna be a bit like that.
Speaker 3: Really, like, he's one of our guys, do.
Speaker 2: We So there's some stuff before we get the teams
that maybe didn't do anything. You want to can we
talk about Let's talk about the oh Man, No, we
got to talk about this team. Jared McCain. The Sixers
traded Jared McCain. They also did other stuff too. They
ducked the tax. All it took Grant was Paul George
getting suspended for five game twenty five games and trading
Jared McCain. That Rockets pick is gonna be twenty four
twenty six. If they got for McCain, they got some seconds.
I am unmoved by their trade deadline. This was cheapness
in excess to me, the Eric Gordon deal. Fine, this deal,
I understand you didn't have a pathway to necessarily breaking out.
While if Quent Grimes is gonna stay for sure, but
with VJ. Edgecomb and Tyrese Maxey.
Speaker 1: But are we kidding?
Speaker 2: This is just like this is what I don't know, Like,
if you're lucky, you'll draft someone with that Rockets pick
who's a third as good as Jared McCain.
Speaker 3: Well, so that's where I went on. This is I
wonder if if the Sixers have decided, I mean one
part one thing is decided, which is like those those
at least the starting back court minutes are spoken for,
and then beyond that, I think Grimes is actually someone
that is just better than McCain at the moment and
probably will be for as long as the next contract
McCain was gonna sign, you know, if you're just comparing
the two production over the next five to five six
years whatever. And the other the other thing is I
wonder if the Sixers also just decided like those two
twenty three games we got from McCain, where that'll be
his career apex and we might as well just get
another first and see what we can do with it.
I don't know how you would know that, but that's
how this makes sense to me. I'm not sure I agree.
I think McCain I would have wanted to see more
before I just used him to save money. Basically, like
you get a first, it's a it is an actual first.
It'll be twenty I don't know, two to twenty eight
in the first round at the end of the first round.
But yeah, it feels a little light. I kind of
get it, though I don't know why. I actually have
a little skepticism about McCain, but but I I don't know.
I think the stixers must have just decided, like, we
know who our guard rotation is gonna be, and we
might as well get an asset and save money.
Speaker 2: So you don't love it, but you don't hate it
as much as I do. It's basically where you end up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I probably I'm kind of lukewarm on it, I guess,
but it's a it's a I mean.
Speaker 1: It's a write of passage. They had a duck attacks.
They always make the salary dumping trade. This is so cheeky.
Speaker 2: Monkey eighty eight eighteen says Jared McCain. Things seems like
more of a vibe thing and VJ so that the
implication being that the vibes were off in Philly. Like
Jared McCain wasn't happy. I mean sure that that doesn't
move me as a reason to move him.
Speaker 1: But I guess what was it?
Speaker 2: Three seconds in a late first and you get out
of the tacks. Josh Harris, I'm assuming is is thrilled.
The other side of this deal, to me, is more
fascinating for reasons that are both good and bad. Shake
Gilloch Suxander's dealing with that abdominal strain, Jalaln Williams has
that hamstring injury.
Speaker 1: AJ Mitchell's dealing with a hip injury.
Speaker 2: Right thunder banged up, and now they just get Jared McCain,
another guy cost controlled for two more years after this one.
They had first round picks to spare. I love this
for them in terms of taking the swing. I'm uncomfortable
because it feels like they needed this just looking at
all the injuries that are mounting on their roster.
Speaker 3: Did we talk about this this morning? I think maybe
we talked about it at some point about like maybe
should there be some urgency for the Thunder. I think
I ultimately land on like probably not, but they I
mean they got the assets to do it if they
wanted to. And I don't know what the name would
have been, they certainly could have swung a little bigger.
I'm not Let's see what's our what's our what's our
concern level for the Thunder like one to ten? As
as far as like, are they the favorites? I can
I can't get.
Speaker 2: I can't get like a it's to me, it's still
just not that fully, I would be more concerned if
I looked at, oh, the Timberwolves are actually consistent, they're not,
or I looked at the Nuggets and said, oh, they've
been pretty healthy, which they have watched them.
Speaker 3: Well, here's a here, here's a great great point. You
raise a great point, like what trade happened in the
last week that made a really good team better? That
that is like a threat to the Thunder, Like, uh,
we got slandered Pistons.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: I don't see it, like what what move? What move?
Like meaningfully improved team that was gonna be in the
conversation with Houston didn't get way better. The Spurs well,
I was, I was trying to tee you up for
that one. That was the most meaningful move of that,
you know what I mean, Like, yeah, I think the
Thunder should feel more vulnerable now because of all these
injuries than they have really at any point this season.
But nobody else did anything to like make them, you know,
feel scared.
Speaker 2: I don't think do you think I don't want to
move too many steps ahead? But do you think that
them making this move is more about just the opportunity
and maybe the immediate need slash mini urgency or do
you think this kind of telegraphs well, Cason Wallace, Alex Cruz,
Lou Dort, all three of those guys not gonna be
here next year? Maybe Isaiah Joe like to me it
it reads like one are two perimeter players that are
in the rotation right now are not going to be
around next season. That's my my loose read on it.
But maybe I'm skipping too far ahead.
Speaker 3: Maybe a little bit. But I do think I think
the other component is like the cost was low enough
that and that like, yeah, you just do this if
you're if you're the Thunder, Like they're like they got
enough picks, they got they got two years worth of
rookies in the lottery that haven't even played for them yet,
that are in the pipeline. Like, what are we gonna
do with a number twenty four pick in this draft? Like,
let's just take McCain. He's cheap, he's he's actually been
good in a stretch of his rookie year. Makes sense.
So if you do need to lose one of those guys,
no big deal.
Speaker 2: Thunder traded for Balsa Kopravica Championship. I did grade this trade,
and I gave a thunder and a plus. Not because
I think the twenty five year old seven footer is
ever gonna come state side, but I'm I like collecting
draft rights because teams need to touch and he's like
mega scenario. So if you just have these dispensable draft rights,
just top notch stuff from Sam Presty. However, I am
surprised he wasn't fired because he was not the first
lead executive.
Speaker 1: To trade for a twenty thirty two first round pick.
Do you know who was?
Speaker 3: Uh no, I'm sure, Oh, okay, there you go. Oh
that's right. You're getting a stampj not being traded.
Speaker 2: That's what's happening, So let's go to the well, let's
go to the Knicks. Here they traded two first round
picks and dal and terror If basically Gershan Jabuceli in
two first round picks for Jose Alvarados.
Speaker 3: What it turned into second? Second? Second?
Speaker 1: Second? Oh yeah, sorry, I apologize.
Speaker 3: He's worth's Jose Alarado is worth two first but they
didn't have to get.
Speaker 2: I think this was ended up being a really good
deal for them, and part of that is because it's
they needed it. Deuce McBride is not going to be
out until at least the playoffs with a core muscle
injury that I didn't know he had.
Speaker 1: They were listening him out with ankle soreness.
Speaker 3: That was news to me too.
Speaker 1: Hashtag and transparency on that one.
Speaker 2: I like this because with Duce McBride out, we did
talk about how point of attack defense isn't too important.
It's meg it important when Karl Anthony Towns is in
your front court, and without Duce McBride, their best point
of attack defender is Landry SHAMMITTT kudos to Landry Shammitt,
but you need somebody else.
Speaker 1: Jose Everado does that.
Speaker 2: He is the better passer than Duce McBride, and he's
shooting thirty six plus percent from three over the past
three seasons. I do think if you're gonna give up
two seconds, you're probably hoping that he's planning to opt
in to that four point five million dollar player option,
then maybe extend off of that. But I didn't think
this would have been a good trade, even if Duce
McBride was like, you traded someone who really shouldn't have
been playing to someone who might actually play in the
playoffs if his threes are falling.
Speaker 1: Good trade. But it was to me. I came to
view it as an essential trade.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I know. Did the McBride news drop after
the Yes?
Speaker 2: Basically it was basically immediately after I got a text
for my father in law, Nick's trade good is all
it said, And I looked at it, and then I
was about to answer him the notification came about the
Duce McBride thing on my phone. I was just like,
he wasn't I didn't even know he was out with
a core muscle injury. I kept seeing ankle soreness. Five
games with ankle soreness. By the way, that's not that's
not a thing.
Speaker 3: Well, it depends on if your team's tanking or not.
Uh yeah, No, I liked it a lot. It makes sense,
like of the small time moves that, like you said,
this is one where it's like, oh, that's a that's
a playoff rotation guy, Like he's actually gonna do something meaningful.
I think, and I bet you he will opt in,
by the way, just because like it's just the marriage
of him in New York is just like that that's
gonna work. I think he's gonna want to be a
part of that.
Speaker 2: It's probably quick fire time. Let's talk about the Pelicans,
not just end of this. I think you make this
trade like two seconds for Jose Alvarado, but he is
a culture center there, so that's a little weird.
Speaker 1: What are what dude, what are they doing?
Speaker 2: Like should they have should they have traded any of
the Zion the Trey Murphy want them kind of the mind, No,
don't try, like unless there was the like the a
Vita Zubats type offer, but for Trey Murphy probably needed
an extra pick in there. The Zion and Herb Jones,
Like what is did you expect this team to be
more active or did you take them saying we're not
trading anybody at face value.
Speaker 3: Like it seems I did take them at face value,
and I thought it was dumb. I think shumn't Dua
was pointing out the other day on Blue Sky about
you know the reality of the New Orleans sports situation
is that the owners of the Saints and Pelicans care
about you know, they're they're losing sponsors, that people are
leaving the front off, like it's just a it's a
terrible situation. It's just not one that could maybe stand
like a we're trading guys for draft picks, rebuild type thing.
So they were very much motivated by stuff that shouldn't
be that. It's unfortunate that they're motivated by because you
can get three first or Trey Murphy, I think you
take it if you can get a first. For Herb Jones,
I think you take it if you can get good value. Resign,
I think you take it. It seems like they just
that wasn't gonna happen for kind of the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I'm totally with you. Shout out to Cheeky Monkey.
We got a super chat grant. Oh yeah, you guys rock.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the show. Tonight. You guys have real potential.
Keep it up.
Speaker 2: Uh, real potential. That's definitely what I want. Thank you
so much, that's what I want to hear. After ten
years of podcasting, still theres.
Speaker 3: Trying to get better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I don't know what you're You're you and
Shmidt right on everything you said.
Speaker 1: I just don't know. I just don't know what this.
Speaker 2: I don't know what to solve or what the endgame
here is. There was I think there are Pelicans fans
that believe they have the core of like A, this
team could make the playoffs next year, and I just
don't I don't see it.
Speaker 3: Who's not playing right now? That that like.
Speaker 2: Jean Day Murray sir all right, Yeah, it's it's uh.
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, I would have traded everything, I think.
But like we've said already, it's a lot easier to
tear things down than it is to build it up.
So that's the first half is the easy one.
Speaker 1: Rapid fire, Orlando, Magic Duck, the Tax, your favorite or
created Tyas Jones.
Speaker 3: You know that was the most one of the more
inevitable deadline moves based on how he was playing in
their proximity of the tax bummer that this is where
we are with the Magic based on some of the
preseason hype right where it's like.
Speaker 2: I didn't pick them for fifty wins, except that I
definitely did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, to be fair.
Speaker 2: Ducking the tacks this year made like you don't want
to start the repeater clock if we're looking at the
reality of the situation, because the real reality is, hey,
billionaire owners, just pay if you think your team is good.
Speaker 1: Now, this team is not great. It could be good.
Speaker 2: I think a full strength at least their core lineup
is going to be really good. But with Pala's extension
kicking in, you have Desmond Baine, you have Frondz. Jalen
Suggs's deal is declining but it's not tiny. And now
all of a sudden, the question becomes is Anti Black
gonna get more money than Jaalen Suggs. You needed to
get out of the tacks And yeah, ideally it wouldn't
have been to use you wouldn't use Tias Jones to
do it. But Tias Jones, I don't say he's actively detrimental,
but like that was not the player they thought they
were getting or the player they signed, and this is
a team that's gonna have to seasons not over yet,
We're there. Need to look inward and figure out some
offensive things over the offseason for sure.
Speaker 1: Are the right players in place? Is the right coach
in place?
Speaker 2: There's just not And again they've been injured, but there's
not enough diversity in the way that they play their offense.
Speaker 3: It'll start with Mosley and then if that doesn't solve it,
then we'll have them. There's already that, like, is Polo
really the guy whispers? Mosley will go and then Palo
will get it, will earnestly have the discussion about Paolo.
I feel like that is that is the roadmap for
the next like eighteen months.
Speaker 1: Probably the Brooklyn Nets grant held on to. We're gonna go.
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna have to go to the Detroit
Piston after this, because I think they're the team that
angered me, angered me the most, but not they're still
so good. So I'm not actually angry. Were you surprised
that they I mean camp they waved Cam Thomas, but
Michael Porter Junior still there, Nicholas Claxton is still there.
They have o Chi Boji now, so like they have ranged.
They got some more ranging defenders on this team. Were
you just surprised that they didn't do anything more significant
when looking at like bigger money that they took on,
or is this about what you expected from them?
Speaker 3: I don't really understand not trading MPJ. I think if
there was like a two first maybe now it seems
like that wasn't realistic. But if there was a real
first and then a fake one out there, I think
you probably should have done it. It's hard for me
to imagine mpj's value getting higher than it is right now,
just because he's playing so well. The contract now doesn't
seem totally onerous. He stayed healthy again. I just I
think this was the time to move him. So a
little surprised there cam Thomas thing. There's just nobody wanted
Cam Thomas, or nobody was willing to give up anything
for Cam Thomas. If you want Cam Thomas, you can
sign him. I was gonna say in the offseason, you
can sign him right now if you want to, because
he's available. Anything else about the Nets, I think that
I don't. I think it just I don't know. Were
you surprise MPJ didn't get moved?
Speaker 1: I kind of thought.
Speaker 2: He It did seem like the messaging was that he
wasn't gonna get moved close to the trade online. But
do you think that there was an offer with two
first round picks on the table for him or no.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say there must not have been, because I
think the Nets would have taken it. If there were
two real first I think that I think that deal
would have gotten done.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll be wrong, but if there weren't teams wanting
to put too real first I'm not saying they needed
to be what the Pacers gave up for Zoobots all
the season Michael Porter Junior's had, but if there wasn't
a team that was willing to give up the equivalent
of two first for Michael Porter Junior, I don't know.
I have questions, but I think the Nets, overall, I
expected them to do something a little bit bigger, whether
it was selling or taking in Like Ochak Bogie was
biggest salary they took in. But Josh might not play.
He had some good moments for the Celtics earlier this year.
I do like that they just continue to short Denver's future.
Now they have their twenty thirty two second for taking
on her, and they gave up another second.
Speaker 1: To do it, and Denver very quickly. I was fine
with that deal.
Speaker 2: I don't love giving up the twenty thirty two second,
but it was a reinvestment in Okay, we can be
players on the buy out market now, and they got
a twenty twenty six second back. So it is prioritizing
adding talent to keep kind of the Nicola Jokics train
rolling while you're paying it. The real inflection point for
me with the Nuggets, aside from Ken they get healthy
and what will they do in the playoffs? Are they
just willing to pay Peyton Watson after paying Christian Brown?
Like that's the I didn't expect Peyton Watson to get moved,
but that's the next inflection point for this team.
Speaker 3: I'm really glad Peyton Watson. That wouldn't How disappoint would
that have been if you just I I think I
think had they moved Peyton Watson because they are afraid
of what it might cost to match an offer, sheeting
restrict free agency. I don't know that that you You've
been correct to point out that they do pay their guys,
so maybe that was overblown, but I was a little
nervous about that one. I'm glad. I'm glad he's still there.
Speaker 1: Let's talk.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the Pistons, who it's not that they
they did something, Kevin Herder. Are you disappointed that they
didn't seek a more aggressive upgrade, especially in the front court. Well,
I want to say the front they're set at center,
but kind of from not even just if you weren't
going to upgrade the Tobias Harris spot, but like get
like a better alternative behind Tobaia or just something there.
Are you disappointed or is this there first in the
East they wanted they did get rid of Jade and
Ivy as well, so now that that like they don't
have to worry about paying him now over there, like
that was a whole thing. So I understand what they did,
but I was kind of bummed. I was hoping they
were going to be the Michael Porter junior team, because
I think he this is the team he would have
made the biggest difference on.
Speaker 3: Totally agree that. I guess that is what I wanted
to see happen. I can't claim to be disappointed, though,
because from the jump they were saying they weren't gonna
go do something like that, And I think if you
if you get out there with that message that early
and you stick to it as often as the Pistons
do it, it's probably not posturing. And it wasn't so
like they they did and didn't do exactly what they said.
I still would like Porter Junior on this team made
a ton of sense to me, and I get it,
like you, Well, we talked to Jake this morning. He
kind of said, like they think they're ahead of schedule
and they're cool with it, and they've got guys that
are gonna need to get paid coming up eventually. So yeah,
Like and also the urgency. I just like, if you're
this good and you have a pretty clear need, just
address it and like maybe you win the whole thing,
Like maybe maybe maybe the thunder don't get healthy and
you just win a title because you traded for Porter Junior,
Like that's they're that good. So I just I would
have pushed the pedal down a little bit. I think
I don't know what this was, like, maybe the offer
just wasn't good enough.
Speaker 1: We see him Malik Beasley come back.
Speaker 2: I think it's less likely in Detroit now that Kevin
Herder is there, but I guess if he wants to
come back, I'm sure a team will want Malik Beasley.
To your point, though, or I guess to undermine my
own point, let's assume the cost for Michael Porter Junior
was too high because I kind of viewed as they
got Kevin Hurder, now you can move Duncan Robinson's step
while keeping Tobias Harris, that you could do all these things.
What was Jared Jackson Junior was already moved. They shouldn't
have given that up for John I don't think he
was the guy for them Larry Market and then clearly
wasn't gonna get moved.
Speaker 1: I don't want to see him give up a ton.
Speaker 2: I also, again, Trey Murphy doesn't sound like the Pelicans
would have traded him for anything.
Speaker 1: Where does the It would be fair to.
Speaker 2: Ask, okay, well if Michael, if not Michael Porter Junior,
then who.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, and like it's got to be
a shooter at the four uh, And like I don't know,
are we gonna trade because he's a fourn out? Is
Klay Thompson that guy?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I don't think though, like I and and that's I
don't know. I was hoping you wouldn't say Trey Murphy,
so I could say Trey Murphy. But if you're not
giving up what it costs to get Porter Junior, you're
definitely not giving up what it would have cost to
get Murphy. I don't know. And like, so Buddy heeled
got traded. He's also he's not a four and he
also hasn't made a shot this year. So it's just Hurder. Actually,
the way as we're running through it, Hurder is not
a bad get right because he can actually play make
a little bit, and he's he's not he's never quite
gotten back to what he was of how long a
man times a flat circle a couple of years ago
when he really looked like, oh, this guy is a
fringe starting caliber two on a good in a good offense.
But maybe he can do that in a smaller role.
For the Pistons, you sort of you sort of can't
play him and Duncan Robinson at the same time, ever,
But but maybe you just have a similar one of
them runs hot one of them, doesn't you know, you
have that guy out there that's going to fill that role.
But I would have loved to have seen it at
the at a front court spot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm just the more I'm thinking about it,
I'm just like, I don't know who the target would be.
I don't like Santi al Dama's probably two combo four
or five?
Speaker 1: You know who would he Good'll bring him back now
that he's good again. Jalen Wells probably doesn't give you
enough shooting, right like, or at least enough guaranteed shooting.
Speaker 3: And I think he might have been the price might
have been fairly high for him too. That might have
been a first Well.
Speaker 2: I just I saw the messaging that the Grizzlies reviewing
Zach Edy and Cedric Coward as their core, and I
clocked it as, oh, well, I'm.
Speaker 3: Calling about was wondering what about me?
Speaker 1: Just just to investigate.
Speaker 2: There another team I think we do need to talk about,
and we kind of glossed over them when we were
talking about DeAndre Hunter.
Speaker 1: The Sacramento Kings. They did move Kean Ellis and Dennis Shooter.
They now have DeAndre Hunter. But some bonus there, Lavin
mayor derozen there, monk there, how are you feeling about
your Sacramento Kings, Sir.
Speaker 3: Well we talked about the the Cavs side of it.
I hate that trade for the Kings. It's so stupid.
I just Hunter, I just don't think does anything. Okay,
they don't have any big wings and now they do it.
Just Hunter's not playing well. I just don't think he's
worth that contract. I think Ella. This is another one
where it's like, how did you get to this point
with Ellis, where like, this is what you're doing. You're
taking on money that goes beyond this year, and it's
like a significant contract for a guy that doesn't make
you a ton better. Yeah, cheeky monkey is right. I
think we're gonna get a DeMar derozen buy out.
Speaker 2: Even with the guaranteed money on his contract next year.
What's he got guaranteed for next year?
Speaker 1: Ten or thirteen? Ten or thirteen in that range.
Speaker 3: I thought I saw a rumor that, in addition to
that just being in my brain, I thought I saw
a rumor that they were going to look at that.
But yeah, I don't know. I guess I.
Speaker 2: Guess Rose and buyouts tough is because the team that
he goes to can't be an Apron team.
Speaker 3: Right, Because yeah, no, I don't know. Man, Well, I
can't remember if I already said that, but this is
another one where you you the Shrewder signing was stupid.
The way they dealt with Ellis up to this point
was stupid, and so now they're just stuck with we
gave up. It's just that it got to this point.
Is the problem as a more so than just maybe
Hunter plays well for them. I don't know, it would
be hard for him to play very much worse than
he than he had for the Cavs this season, but
just the series of decisions that got to this point.
Speaker 1: Or the part of the issue, and can we go
through it because it's this regime, the current I mean,
the background of DVE is responsible for everything regardless.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Shrewder's a Perry guy, like Perry made happen.
Speaker 2: This is this is just that We'll focus on three
or four decisions. Not declining Ellis's team option to make
him a restricted free agent mistake One. They then flipped
Jonus Valentchunis, who was really good for them, for Darry
or Sharich who was really bad for them and required
a second round pick to get off, so that they
could create the flexibility.
Speaker 3: To sign who Grant One, Dennis Shrouder.
Speaker 1: This fucking franchise is incapable of doing anything that makes
sense for more than a minute or a season at
a time. And now you're sitting here and it's I
don't know what the path to a teardown is. I
don't know what the path to like this needs to be.
There's not go ahead.
Speaker 3: The path is not adding DeAndre Hunter. That's not a
teardown move. That's a let's fill this need move so
we can win twenty six games instead of twenty four.
Speaker 1: Well that, but did they give up?
Speaker 2: Because it's would you have rather of them kept Shrewder
and let Elis leave?
Speaker 1: Is my like this?
Speaker 3: That's the problem is that my frustration is more from
like just well one and Kings fans are will never
get to the bottom of like why weren't you playing Ellis?
More like why wasn't Ellis just a bigger part of
this team from the jump? Nobody's ever gonna know. Uh yeah,
so yeah, okay, let's go down the altar an alternate path.
You just hold on to Shrewder and Ellis. Maybe you
maybe you lose Ellison free agency. We pile on the
Kings for that.
Speaker 1: Right again, what basically excited Hunter? Get Murray? Hell?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Kegan's been hurt for most of the Uh yeah,
I don't know how could the Kings have looked better?
How could they have come out better? Not just not
not trading Hunt for Hunter?
Speaker 1: Well, so it's not that it'll be easy to do this,
but you could make the case that what you should
make the case after all their moves? Did you? I'm
sure you knew this.
Speaker 2: They're a tax team next year, they are, so now
you're gonna have to shave money at some point, which
is probably why you're gonna go to DeMar de Rosen
buyout route, or if I'm DeMar de Rosen, fuck them,
I'm just gonna stick it out because they're gonna pay
me my money to go away and you'll just be
a free agent.
Speaker 1: Next summer versus right, Like, just tough it out at
this point, dude, you know how.
Speaker 2: We could know that the King are the biggest hell
hole in maybe the history of professional sports. If Zach Lavine,
of all people, just declines his player options, it's like,
fuck you, I don't want my fifty million dollars, get
me out of here.
Speaker 3: I mean, what a litmus test, just like and can
we root for it?
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be the just the funniest thing of all
the torn because I feel like the king should have
to pay for their the vec around D. They should
have to bank roll this.
Speaker 3: No, the scorn, just this, the embarrassment would be so
worth it. If he's just like, you know what, guys,
I don't need this money this badly. I would like
to leave now. Please.
Speaker 1: I will default to whatever Kings fans want to see
happen in that scenario.
Speaker 3: How's that they've been through enough? They've been through.
Speaker 2: We are very close to having talked about every team.
Let's continue the lightning round the Toronto Raptors.
Speaker 1: They got TJ D. Your guy, that's an egg. They
dump o chaiak Baji.
Speaker 2: Took a twenty thirty two second round pick to do
so that was a little bit, uh Like, I like
ochak Baji is a defender offenses all over the place.
Were you surprised just based off the reporting on the
all the bigs that they were linked to, that they
didn't make a bigger move or do you look at
this team and say, I mean, for a team that's
so high up in the Eastern Conference standings, and I,
like so many of the individual players, I feel very
not great about there.
Speaker 1: I'll say, what's the word we invented? Confuzzled, confused, puzzled.
I'm confuzzled about their direction.
Speaker 3: I guess who was the big that they were rumored
to get that you had like no notes on because
it wasn't some bonus. We talked about that a little bit.
It's like, that's not Yeah, I could see it. There's
some value adds, like as an offensive hub and maybe
he'll shoot more threes or maybe just the low volume
works because it's it's accurate. But didn't love the fit
and that would have.
Speaker 1: Would you have done?
Speaker 2: It would have had to have been I think this
the Hawks wouldn't have wanted Perl, I don't think, but RJ.
Speaker 1: Barrett for KP? Would you have done that?
Speaker 3: Hmm. That's interesting thing. You get a lot of push back,
you get a lot of like, you know, actually Barrett's
really valuable for them, and it's kind of stilly that
they that he's like the trade ship that always gets
thrown out there. KP is that that would have been
a fit at least where I'm like, yep, makes sense.
But then is how much is he gonna play? That's
so that's better than Sabonis. But I never heard that.
Did you hear that rumored kp to to the Raptors.
I guess, oh, no, I was.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming the way they were turning over rocks for
big men, it felt like, yeah, linked to Claxton or
Sharp at one point they were never linked yet Chikyu,
that's a good point any here in the Zubats each
matter with the Raptors.
Speaker 3: I mean, that would have been better than Sabonis, I think,
But but I guess, I guess, I'm I'm not.
Speaker 1: He's a floor spacer. I say, Razor, Well, well, have
you seen like some of the on off data with
him for the Kings this year? He makes them better?
Speaker 3: Oh congrats from no I. I I I do agree that. Uh,
it felt like they needed a piece. I just don't
think the right one was out there, at least not
one that was like that it got tied to them
in any kind of serious way. Plus, like Yaka Purtle forever,
he's gonna be there, you know what. They're an extension
negotiations with him right now.
Speaker 2: Another team, Portland. They got Vi Crachi, so they win
the trade deadline.
Speaker 1: It cost them, but.
Speaker 3: They Yeah, they lost Duprez, so they lose the trade deadline.
Speaker 1: This is what's the equivalent of a like a social
Sophie's choice, But it's just like a moral like is
that the moral dilemma?
Speaker 2: Because I'm not picking between two things. I just don't
know how to feel. Because we got it's the it's
the thanos. How much did it cost me? Like we
got fit crazy? But what did it cost everything?
Speaker 3: What is it like like a pyrrhic victory? Like you won,
but you you burned down the whole town to win?
So did you or something like that? So did you
really win something? Somewhere in there, it's too late to
come up with the the proper analogy exists, just neither
of us is going to get there.
Speaker 1: At this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's after one am by time, I
am tired. Here's the thing with Portland at the VIC Crazie's.
I think that was just sneaky good move for.
Speaker 3: Sure, I'm really not.
Speaker 2: I mean I did kind of want them to just
be the honest team would have been hysterical because they
have the two swaps.
Speaker 3: In the pickolved get involved in.
Speaker 2: I really wanted them to get more shooting on this day,
and Vic Crazie does it.
Speaker 1: Let's see how much he plays.
Speaker 2: But this team is so on the nights that they
are on, they are so fun to watch, and I
just find myself saying I would probably like another playmaker
or too, like what is going on with Scoot Henderson
type deal?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's gonna play. You see that he's coming back.
I did not yep, did he come He came back already. No,
he's coming back. I want to say it's like their
next game, but it might also be after the break.
But it's he like there's a there's a timeline. It's
gonna happen. I think I think it's sooner. I think
it's the sooner of the two options I gave you.
Speaker 2: So hey, he's making his debut on Friday. That's all right,
So okay, just get shooting on this team. I beg
you would have been so. I really would have liked
to have seen Robert Williams on a team that might
have needed him more. I don't have complaints about I understand, like,
why did you did? I want them to go all in,
but they would have been a team where it's sneaky
like Michael Porter Junior might have made some sense here,
Trey Murphy, that would have been a fun I liked
them as the I like the Jazz more than them,
I think, but they were another Jaron Jackson junior team
that could have been fun.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: That. They and the.
Speaker 2: Hornets, I think are the teams that are like, they're
kind of caught in the middle.
Speaker 1: I want to see them like just go bonkers over
the off.
Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah, they're very much like the Jazz where it's
like you get the right one more piece there and
suddenly the outlook is very very different. But they can
still get it. I mean they got those Bucks picks.
Guess what, once we're back doing this statist circle all
the way back two hours ago, once we're doing the
whole Honis dance again, the Blazers should enter the chat
and just see, hey, fellas, can we facilitate something like
because those the swaps and the picks they have are
gonna gonna be valuable. They're going to be valuable at
some point.
Speaker 1: Miami is the We're on the teams that did nothing.
There were only three of them. Oha.
Speaker 2: Miami was the only team in the Eastern Conference to
do nothing.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about what?
Speaker 3: Uh? Well, they were in on Giannis in so far
as anyone was in, they were never going to have
a good enough offer.
Speaker 2: So to be fair, they might have had the best
or the second best offer, which is why you don't
trade honest right now?
Speaker 3: Like that, Well, we yn't right exactly, they didn't have
a The offers were insufficient, I guess for the Bucks.
So I don't know what would we have wanted them
to do. I know we did a whole preview on
I move Tyler Hero so they don't have to pay him.
I don't know what was the market going to be
for Tyler Hero or so you don't have to extend him.
Speaker 1: They're kind of just in, like consolidate or get off
the pot.
Speaker 3: At this point, Well, they they've got the twenty seven
cap Space dreams and they've got at the Yannis aspirations too,
So it's like.
Speaker 2: What at what point do we still like do we
just say the Lakers in the heat of the teams
where it's oh, they're planning for cap Space and we're
okay with that.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say they're one of a very select
they might be one of two teams that I think
we can still like with a straight face say well,
they're carbon out cap space. But but that with the
Yannis designs that they have, I think it's like, all right,
I get it, you want to.
Speaker 1: And they're gonna have four first round picks this summer
plus kohlil ware.
Speaker 2: Is that if you're actually evaluating Yannis offers, is that
a real offer?
Speaker 3: I would like to think that the Bucks can still
do better than that, but maybe not. I mean, the
Warriors had four on the table and it was like
Pods and Kaminga and Draymond. That your miles may vary
on which one of those is better, I guess, But yeah,
I'm sure they'll throw that out there. I don't know
if I don't know if it'll be enough by then
everybody else's offers get better.
Speaker 2: But then what are they left with because now you're
losing Terry Rose years matching salary over the offseason. Did
over Norman Powell if he was going to be part
of that trade. So it's hero where make the money work?
With everyone who's not named Bam? You have no picks,
and it's Janni's Bam and Paula Larson.
Speaker 3: Well he has Wiggans probably going out as matching salary
in that one player option.
Speaker 1: Is he even still like around like an he.
Speaker 3: Well, maybe you've got Wiggans back on like a multi
year deal for less than thirty or who knows, well,
actually probably not. No, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
I want to try to guess. Well, the Spurs, the
Spurs didn't do anything, So that's one of the worst.
Speaker 1: WI should make you mad.
Speaker 3: You were a little bit you were you.
Speaker 1: Wanted them to do something.
Speaker 3: They're yeah, they were, well they like anytime we brought
up any interesting big name of the Spurs were always
my favorite spot that from Giannis to market in to
to MPJ, to Trey Murphy to like you name it,
just because I Wemby allows you to kind of build
whatever you want. And I love Castle and Harper and
I would love to see more shooting around them, and
some of the guys that happened to potentially kind of
sort of maybe be available, like Murphy and MPJ could shoot.
So I just I wanted I wanted to see something
even more interesting happening in San Antonio that's already happening.
Although I did want it both ways because I wanted
them to keep the Castle on Harper in the process,
and that's I don't know how that works. I they
they should have traded Fox, or they shouldn't have given
Fox that point, or at some point I want Castle
and Harper as my guards. That Fox Fox.
Speaker 1: Happens when you podcast after ten pm Pacific times.
Speaker 3: You just think I've been pretty consistent that I thought that.
I think like Fox is nice, but I think been
their second best offensive player so far. I think I
think Castle Harper want to be better.
Speaker 1: I think they're sorry, hold on, hold on. You wanted
them to make a win now trade because it would
elevate their status as contenders, But you're sitting.
Speaker 3: There argument it's a separate argument. I think Fox is
I think Fox. If Fox could be your third best player,
I think your pretty good shape as like a oh
they could win a title, but right now he's their
second best player. That's not good enough. By the time
that dynamic flips where it's either Harper or Castle and
not him, then is like he'll be a little too old.
It just the fit is imperfect to me. Why are
we talking about this because.
Speaker 2: I started one of your most cognitively dissonant takes of
all time where it's they needed to make a move
to be a contender, But why wouldn't they just trade
Fox regardless to let no Harper and stuff develop.
Speaker 3: It's well, for one, it's trade deadline day. I'm real tired,
little punch ye. As I said at the top, uh no,
I guess maybe I should amend that to say Fox
has always felt like I haven't loved to fit there
and that and that's that's because I think Harper and
Castle are your guys. Now maybe all three can play
together eventually, but both of them came off the bench
tonight because you got Viselle back healthy, and so it's
Viscell and Fox starting over the guys.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I just don't understand why they didn't trade Webby
so that Steph Castle untilon harbor, but they could develop,
so we have one more team to hit that. It's
the third team that did nothing. Who's the one team
we have not talked about?
Speaker 1: Uh oh uh.
Speaker 3: No, Phoenix, Phoenix did something. It's just gonna be dead
silence while I think.
Speaker 1: Oh uh, we didn't. I'm sorry we didn't talk about Phoenix.
Speaker 3: Let's do that really quick well that was a Nick
Richards right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they ducked the tacks.
Speaker 2: Well super, I mean they're just a I was if
they could have done something, where been the Zion team?
If the Pelicans weren't looking for picks, I would have
their fans seem to have been against that. You can't
after living through the past two or three years, fuck
with the vibes of this team.
Speaker 1: It's the Sun.
Speaker 3: Should have split up all their remaining picks into three
different picks and just really up their asset.
Speaker 2: Uh, or you should have horror crossed. They should have
swapped the swapped of the already swap. We I'm sorry,
I'm for kind of eliminating. Would you be all for
eliminating swaps altogether? Or can at least be one swap?
I can't deal with these multi dimensional swaps.
Speaker 3: Oh once the piggest swap that cannot be re swapped
or forwarded in a future. Yeah, I like, I want
that because I don't like you get the middle too
of Minnesota, Milk, Cleveland, Portland, and like, I don't like
those are the two least favorable. I agree, simplify it
is Houston the other team.
Speaker 2: Houston's the other team because they didn't. I don't the
sum shouldn't have done. It would have been nice to
see to maybe get more front court scoring. But the
vibes that team are immaculate. The vibes in Houston not
so much.
Speaker 3: You're really fated on Udoka going in on singer no
no no.
Speaker 1: I was fixated. I don't.
Speaker 2: I not that I defer to fan bases, but I'm
I normally recognize that if you're a fan of the
Houston Rockets, the odds are overwhelming good that you've watched
more of the Houston Rockets than me. The number of
Houston Rockets fans that think that they needed a big
like after the Steven Adams injury, I like in defense,
I really think the offense is a bigger problem. When
I'm looking at them through a postseason lens, I'm more
worried about the offense.
Speaker 3: I completely agree, completely agree that that's the first thing
that jumps in. Maybe I've seen the wrong games, but
that's what I think. That's that's pretty clear to me.
Speaker 2: And so I love Reied Shepherd and you have Kevin Durant,
but Alprin jeng Gun I was all on the Alprin
Shangoon train to start the season, like that's been someone
who's fallen off a little bit. They just they needed something,
another half court creator or just someone else to open
up the floor a ton and I wanted I thought
they look if you wanted them to get a big
they didn't do that either. So them doing nothing at
the trade deadline, that feels like, I don't know if
it's a missed opportunity. They were so close to the
hard cap, but I I.
Speaker 1: Don't know if I was surprise. I actually I guess
I was a little surprised that they did nothing because
I think they needed to do something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so too. I I just this isn't
really a trade deadline conversation. But like I think the
Amen Thompson Shanngoon, really it's about Thompson. I think if
Thompson's gonna have a big offensive role, like you're just
kind of hamstrung in a lot of I can't get
that Spurs game out of my mind a couple of
weeks ago, where they like the Spurs just solved him
in the second half by putting Wemby on Thompson and
Tom and he just ignored him like he didn't have
to do it. He got to roam. And I think
any good team, not everybody has Wemby news flash, but
like any smart team is gonna give similar treatment to
the Rockets, and the offense is just going to be
very difficult to execute. So them not going and doing
something to improve the offense, it's not easy. But like
a shooter a playmaker like it wouldn't have where were
they on I don't know, on Kobe White or something
of like that tier of move Because I agree with you.
I think it's the offense. I think that's the issue.
Speaker 2: Can I give you my after it's about one thirty am.
Here take is if you could have done some sort
of a swap, maybe it's Amen Thompson and salary for
Trey Murphy and Herb Jones.
Speaker 1: I think this team would have been better. Is better off?
Are they better Bettery Murphy instead of Amen Thompson.
Speaker 3: If you were giving me both Herb and Murphy, I
would say they're definitely better today, but I would have
couched it in Like but if Thompson ever figures out
how to shoot, then it's real scary because Thompson's great
at everything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you and you will obliterate your on ball If
if it's just Trey Murphy, you've obliterated your You still
have Tari's and Dory Finney Smith, but you'll obliterate your
on ball defense fundamentally changes the identity of your team.
And and maybe too early for that, maybe you give
Thompson another.
Speaker 3: Year before you get drastic. But yeah, I would, I would.
I would have that conversation.
Speaker 1: But put it that way, which is maybe that's just
my f maybe that's just my late night take.
Speaker 2: Here, do we have anything else? Let me look at
these comments. It's from Cheeky Monkey's interesting. With the new CBA,
it will be interesting to see the buyout market. I
think it's gonna be juicier.
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm torn on that, just because of the
way that some of the good teams might not be
able to sign some of the best players who were
on the buyout.
Speaker 2: Market if they're making more than the mid level. And
if you're going on the buyout market, you're losing your
bird rights, and so you would want to presumably want
to be able to go to It's not I'm gonna
go on the buyout market so I can sign with
the Bulls or the Kid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't know how much
the new CBA is. It's affecting a lot of things.
I don't know if if the buyout market is I
don't know if making the buyout market more interesting is
one of them, right, Like, just because of what you
just went through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have any other notes on this trade that
a lone aside from it just being absolutely insane? Did
you have a favorite what was your favorite move or
you think was the best move or the move that
doesn't isn't getting enough credit at me?
Speaker 3: That's well, I don't. I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: Nothing was like, oh my god, what a heist? Like,
I don't. I'm trying to think if there was anything
as I'm scrolling back through it now that like really
jumped out as like some just unequivocal win for a
team or so something that made me think the way
that I thought when the Hawks got that pick from
the Pelicans on Draft night, for example, like that, There's nothing.
I think the most interesting trade is probably the Garland
Harden trade just and when we talked about it for
quite a while, I guess I have more of a
macro some macro thoughts to close, but maybe you what
do you have? What?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: What was your favorite?
Speaker 2: I still, honestly I'm fascinated by the Utah Washington Wizards
of it all. I think more so with Utah just
because I think they're ceiling even in the Western Conference,
is immediately higher well next looking at next season. That
I've I've loved it, but it's also something that I
recognize I could be wrong, and so it piques my
curiosity even I've loved I loved what the Jazz did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they tie into what I will remember
this trade deadline for, which is two teams at the
bottom of the standings, the Jazz and the Wizards, different
types of like win now swings, but like really like
those those weren't those aren't the kinds of trades we've
seen in recent deadlines where it's just well, we're really bad,
We're just gonna build through the draft, because that that's
the model that I think we've we've collectively decided like
that's the correct way to do it, right, and and
I like a bit of a shakeup in that. Uh
what they're a little different because the Washington one is
like holy shit, like you're gonna get these distressed assets
and like throw them as bookends around these.
Speaker 1: They just like, what is It's never happened?
Speaker 2: There's this has to be When is a team ever
traded for that much much money in just two players,
like one hundred million dollars and.
Speaker 3: Giving up a first basically uh one nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So if we had a bet right now, does
the Warriors pick convey? I'm gonna say no, I don't
think so.
Speaker 3: That's what that That's what I'll remember it for, is
is that, like I think maybe we're getting some little
hints about like what is now the acceptable length for
a rebuild before we just like floor it or like
do something pretty interesting like what I don't think I
guess what my what my takeaway will be is that
I think teams appetites for just continuing to pile up
young guys and hoping one hits and doing nothing else.
I think I think that's diminished, and I think there's
more of an appetite for let's get it, let's get
some guys and and and that doesn't mean we have
to trade away our young players, but it means we
just put them in smaller roles until they prove they're
ready or not, and in the meantime we win games.
So I think maybe that's what I'll take away. It's
kind of a take.
Speaker 1: That's definitely an offshoot of the flat and lottery odds.
Speaker 2: Right, because you have a team, oh like the Wizards
or the Jazz, who have not gotten the type of
player that you would want spending the years in there,
like maybe it's Sar in Washington. I'm not trying to
devalue those guys, but I think it's a byproduct a
little bit of the flatt and lottery odds. However, the
thing I am tracking, I also think there was a
unique opportunism here because my big picture takeaway is we
look at and I actually hate I think it's gone
too far as we now look at, like the bar
for what constitutes not a toxic contract feels like it's
been raised because it feels like there's no truly terrible
deals in the league because for the most part, unless
you're Yaka Pertle, they're also short. But now we're getting
to a point where these big money contracts, I guess
you're starting to think about their next contract too, but
it's if they're not a consensus top fifteen player they like,
we don't want them on anything near a max. I
just wonder if we're heading towards that, and just the
impressions of it's tough because I agree with a lot
of the criticism Anthony Davis as old and always injured,
and as it looked great this year, Trey Young, it's
just hard to fit in.
Speaker 1: But the Jared Jackson junior of it, all that to
me was a deal that should have skewed towards fine
and it just felt like the value Memphis got, not
that it clearly wasn't underwater, but it wasn't as far
above water as it should have been. And it makes
me wonder, even with the Giannis.
Speaker 2: Rumors, we say the offers are gonna be better, does
Yannis hope them we end up getting moved for less
than we think bam Adebayo in Miami, what are teams
willing to give up for him? So that's I don't
even know if it's a takeaway so much as it
made me want to monitor how the league is going
to value these non they're still stars or they're supposed
to be stars, depending on how you feel about Anthony
Davis type.
Speaker 1: These non supert.
Speaker 2: Even if the if the Celtics put Jalen Brown on
the trade market right now, if they could, I don't.
I was curiously what they get because of how his
like how large his contract is and he hasn't proven
even this year. Maybe there's this probably bad example because
he's had a great year, But do you think that
he's just a consent in any given season? Maybe, but
in the macro sense, is he a consensus top fifteen player?
Speaker 3: Maybe? I think I think what one other thing is
like the types of teams that might be interested in
a player like Jalen Brown with all that money, who's like, eh,
maybe usually an All NBA guy, but I mean this
year sure might be very surprising, Like it might be
your Wizards or your or or you know, some of
those teams. Because in addition, I think to the flatt
and lottery odds kind of messing things up with respect
to rebuilds. I think that the death of free agency
is causing teams to be like cap space, who cares,
We're just we'll just trade for a giant contract that
doesn't have a bunch of time on it, and we'll
just see what happens with it. Because like Anthony Davis
doesn't isn't what Dallas wants. He can be what we want.
We're not any good, he'll make us better, Like I
I think, I think the types of teams that would
be willing to onboard bad contracts are maybe different or
at least they want them for different reasons now, because
it's like it used to be, the bad contract would
come with a bunch of first attached. Anthony Davis didn't
come with any first attack, like any like consequential first attached,
Trey Hung didn't come with consequential first attached to. They
just took the players. So I don't know. I think
we're It's my understanding is still evolving, but but it
feels like things are different with with like what you're saying,
like what those contracts are worth, who's interested in them?
Like it's it's things things feel like they changed at
this deadline.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else? Or are you ready to
take us out here?
Speaker 2: And there will not be because stream Yards got to
figure that out. With the vertical, I'm not going to
put up an end screen because it looks so weird
on the even putting up the comments like it does
weird things that shout out to everyone. We still got
some people in here, a few dozen people. Shout out
to everyone who stuck with us till.
Speaker 3: What are you still doing here? You've seen they are
it says it on the screen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you you are all the real true sickos.
Speaker 2: Thanks for everyone to tune into our trade Deadline series
primer that we did for every team.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the comments. We love. Grant and I've had talks.
We need to figure out live streams.
Speaker 2: It's just when we record normally in like the dead
of the afternoon, it's just no one's around during the
middle of the week. So hopefully we'll be able to
figure that out or something to do more of these,
cause I love I love getting comments and being able
to riff off stuff right like that.
Speaker 3: I do too, But this is also what you get
when you get me after my bedtime and I feel
like I've said a lot of words and not made
a lot of sense to that.
Speaker 2: Can I say one thing. I wasn't disappointed in your performance.
I think your analysis was still spot on. I was
disappointed in the sense that you weren't punchy enough, like
I was expecting some real just off the walls takes
from you.
Speaker 3: And trying to be punchy here. I may if we
start even later, I'll well, if we started me later,
I'm just I'm just gonna be like, I don't know, Dan,
tell me what you think. I don't want to talk anymore.
I'll just throw it to you. Oh all right, that
should do it right. Two and a half hours is enough.
It was trade deadline day. We did it. You guys
all did it with us. Thank you for listening, Thank
you for watching. Please rate, review, subscribe, do all the things.
Read all the content that Dan produced in the written form,
because I don't know how many thousands of words it was,
but it was many thousands, and it was a great job,
and he worked his ass off. I worked pretty hard,
but I would not get it.
Speaker 2: Look, I know how your schedule is set up. No
one else knows this, but the schedule you had to juggle.
I was waiting for you to cancel on me tonight.
Speaker 1: That's why you were here.
Speaker 2: This was like your Michael Jordan flu game, except the
flu at all.
Speaker 3: I'm just old and I need to go to bed
at ten o'clock or I get cranky next day. It's
a big mess. You'll get there. Someday.
Speaker 2: All right, So everyone who caught us on b R,
that was really cool. I got d MS about it.
I thought that was really cool that everyone was watching
us there. So go tell them to put us go
in their comments, and we want more of Dan and
Grant or Hardwood Knocks whatever we're known by, probably.
Speaker 3: Hard write anything. Just tell put us on more.
Speaker 1: Go tell our employers to use.
Speaker 3: Us, tell us, tell them, tell them who we are,
that we're ready for work, like we're on LinkedIn or
whatever that that we got we got. We gotta stop.
Speaker 1: We gotta stop.
Speaker 3: We gotta stop. We gotta stop. Tell your friends, tell
your enemies. Join Discord links in YouTube and podcast scription