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Speaker 1: Imagine this. Okay, it's the dead of night at Nellis

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Air Force Base, huge place, Nevada, desert, totally silent, the

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mess hall usually buzzing right, completely empty except for this

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one lone cook. Maybe he's got a midnight craving, maybe

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he just can't sleep. Who knows, he's got the keys.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so he's in.

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Speaker 1: There, grabbing a snack, probably thinking about I don't know

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tomorrow's menu, just mundane stuff. And then the hair on

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the back of his neck just stands up.

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Speaker 2: That feeling, Yeah, he feels it.

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Speaker 1: Like totally unmistakable, that chilling sensation, you know, being watched.

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He turns around, expects nothing, and for a second he's right.

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But then corner of his eye a flash something small,

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white and just unbelievably fast. Who he hears this quiet

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squeal like a door, then running steps, fading out into

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the desert darkness. He catches these glimpses something white darting

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through the brush. Too big for rat way, too nimble

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for a coyote.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so not a normal animal, not normal at all.

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Speaker 1: And whatever it is, he does not want it in

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his kitchen. So instinct kicks in, grabs a rock, nearby

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chunks it towards the rustling sound.

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Speaker 2: Okay, fight or flake kicking.

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Speaker 1: As exactly, and he hears this faint whimper, so he

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pulls his arm back. Maybe I'll throw another one, and bam,

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this agonizing, like scorching pain shoots through his entire body.

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Oh wow, drops the rock. Just paralyzed, pure raw terror

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freezes him right there, and then it hits him a

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voice clear as a bell, but it's inside his mind,

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well bathic, right inside his head. It says stop or

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die geez the pain gone. Just like that. Paralysis lifts

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and he bolts, scrambles back into the kitchen, slams the

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door locks it, shaking, absolutely convinced of one terrifying thing.

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Speaker 2: What's that?

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Speaker 1: Whatever that voice was, whatever that thing was out there,

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it was not human.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's a that's an immediate jolt, isn't it. That

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kind of fear it's profound. It's way beyond just being spooked. Yeah,

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it's visceral, it is. It's not just seeing something weird

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from far away. This is like an invasion right into

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your personal space and your mind itself, and it just

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shatters any idea you might have about you know, boring

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routine life on a military base just peels back that

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layer of normal and shows you something really really unsettling underneath.

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Speaker 1: And that chilling scene, that immediate threat, that's exactly what

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hooks us for what we're diving into today. Our mission

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here for you listening is to really explore this extraordinary

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account comes straight out of the Nevada Desert, right. It's

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this alleged secret history, a story that kind of weaves

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together covert military stuff, technology that just sounds well impossible,

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and beings from somewhere else, from beyond Earth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're digging into some pretty remarkable sources here,

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detailed accounts that, I mean, if even a fraction of

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what they claim is true, it really forces you to

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rethink reality, doesn't it, and maybe even how human progress

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actually happened.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And what's fascinating is how these stories, you know,

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the kind that often get brushed off is just folklore

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or sci fi. Sometimes they have these elements that just resonate,

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they connect with deeper, unexplained things. So we're gonna peel

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back the layers, follow this one guy's journey into what

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he says was a hidden world, and.

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Speaker 2: See how it might just connect the dots maybe to

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some of the biggest technological leaps we've seen in the

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last century, stuff we kind of take for granted now

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without maybe knowing the full story behind them.

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Speaker 1: So if you've ever wondered about those aha moments in history,

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you know, those sudden bursts of innovation, or if you've

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ever just had that nagging feeling like what's really going

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on behind the current, Yeah, then this deep dive is

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definitely for you. It's a chance to maybe connect some

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dots you didn't even know existed, to look again at

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technologies that seem unrelated, and just ponder, you know, what if,

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what if even a tiny bit of this story is real?

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What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: It opens up a whole world, doesn't it? A world?

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It's probably a lot stranger, a lot more complex than

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we usually think exactly.

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Speaker 1: So let's unpack it. Let's jump right into this really

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extraordinary story.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So our story really kicks off in March nineteen

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sixty five. There's this young guy, Charles Hall, arriving at

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Nellis Air Force Base out in the Nevada Desert. Okay,

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he's fresh out of basic training. You know that feeling

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exhausted but kind of optimistic, ready for whatever's next.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been there. Well, not basic, but yeah.

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Speaker 1: And Charles, by all accounts, was smart, like really smart,

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maybe even a bit of a prodigy. The Air Force

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tested him, found he had this clear knack for math

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and science, graduated top of his class.

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Speaker 2: Impressive. So you'd think he gets his pick of assignments, right,

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Usually you excel, they give you some choice.

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Speaker 1: That's what you'd think. But Nope, not Charles. He was

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sent specifically to Nellis, to this area that well people

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often casually call Area fifty one. Officially it was a

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detachment of Edward's Air Force Base, but it's location right

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near that legendary hush hush site. Well that's kind of

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flag number one, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It definitely raises an eyebrows straight away, And it makes

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you wonder, doesn't it. How often are people just seemingly

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normal folks with no prior inkling knowingly put right into

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these pivotal spots, situations that end up shaping these larger

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hidden stories.

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Speaker 1: Right, And Charles gets this job that sounds honestly deceptively simple,

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weather observer.

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Speaker 2: Weather observer out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, his main job drive around this massive base taking

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environmental readings. No, most people might think, wow, that sounds

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incredibly boring, especially in the middle of the quiet, desolate,

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Nervada desert.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm, I can see that.

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Speaker 1: But Charles, from what our sources say, he didn't really

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seem to mind. He got his own truck, a bit

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of extra pay, and crucially no officers constantly looking over

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his shoulder.

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Speaker 2: Rare perk nice.

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Speaker 1: He actually seemed to kind of dig the quiet, the

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solitude of the desert, liked the piece, and you know,

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Vegas was close enough if he needed a break.

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Speaker 2: So it sounds almost like the perfect gig for a quiet,

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smart young guy. Peaceful, maybe a bit boring, yeah, but low.

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Speaker 1: Stress exactly, a seemingly calm, benign assignment. But that quiet desert,

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that seemingly dull job, it was about to become the

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stage for something completely mind blowing. That comfort he found

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in the silence, Yeah, that was gonna get shattered pretty

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quick by encounters that would just redefine everything he thought

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he knew about peace, fear, reality itself.

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Speaker 2: It really makes you think how many seemingly routine jobs

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throughout history, you know, military or otherwise, we're actually the

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first step into something huge, something hidden just beneath the

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surface of everyday life totally.

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Speaker 1: So Charles is settling in doing the new guy thing,

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getting the feel for the base, probably shooting the breeze

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with his buddy Dwight, you know, complaining about the awful

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mess hall food.

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Speaker 2: Oh, standard military show talk, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And which officers to avoid. Just typical soldier bonding stuff, right,

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the kind of chat that builds friendships in those isolated places. Sure,

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But then the conversation takes this sudden, like really weird turn.

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Dwight gets super serious. His whole tone changes from casual

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joking to this grave, almost urgent warning. He tells Charles, look, Charlie,

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summer's coming up. You got to keep an eye out

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for Range four Harry.

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Speaker 2: Range four Harry. Okay, that doesn't sound like an officer

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to avoid, not at all.

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Speaker 1: And what's wild is the almost mythical way Dwight talks

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about him or it. Range four Harry isn't described as

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a person. It's this what almost like a cryptid something supernatural.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now I'm intrigued.

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Speaker 1: Dwight says, Harry loves the heat, hides up in the

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mountains when it's cooler, but comes down to the Indian

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Springs area when it gets really hot, specifically likes running

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around on the dry lake beds up.

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Speaker 2: On Range four right, and the description.

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Speaker 1: Bizarre, totally bizarre. It's supposed to be a horse, but

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a horse that got too close to an atomic bomb

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test back in fifty four at Frenchman Flats.

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Speaker 2: An atomic horse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not close enough to be vaporized apparently, but close enough.

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That's something well, something really unnatural happened to him now,

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Dwight says. He gives off this white glow. Isn't like

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a normal horse. He's quote more human like, with large

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blue eyes and a long white tail.

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Speaker 2: Human light. Wow. Okay, it's getting weirder.

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Speaker 1: And then comes the big warning scary part. Do not

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approach him, Dwight says, And whatever you do, do not

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look at his face.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's chilling. Don't look at his face why.

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Speaker 1: Dwight doesn't really explain why, just that you absolutely shouldn't,

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and Charles's reaction exactly what you'd expect. He just bursts

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out laughing, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I probably would too, sound like classic hazing.

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Speaker 1: Totally. The new guy gets the ridiculous scary story a radioactive,

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glowing human faced horse. Come on, he's probably picturing some

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older guys hiding in the bushes with a flashlight. Right,

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But Dwight, he's dead serious. He doubles down, tells Charles

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about this guy John Zimmam and the last guy who

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got too close to Harry says he doesn't want Charles

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ending up like him.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, So Dwight's not joking.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't seem like it. It's this absurd story, but told

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with such conviction, it's actually kind of creepy. And that's

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the thing about stories and places like that, right, these isolated,

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high pressure communities, legends just take root. Sometimes they fill

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a void, or maybe maybe sometimes they're masking something terrifyingly real.

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Speaker 2: It really highlights the whole psychological landscape of a place

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like that. How does a story that sounds so completely

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off the wall gain that kind of traction, especially in

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a military setting where everything's supposed to be about logic

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and procedure.

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Speaker 1: Good question.

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Speaker 2: It hints at this underlying tension, maybe a deep secret

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that needs some kind of outlet, even if it comes

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out sideways in this bizarre, almost unbelievable story. And then

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then comes the moment that turns it from a creepy

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story into something much, much worse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The very next day, Charles has to go to

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the infirmary, just a routine physical before heading out to

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the ranges. He's still kind of chuckling to himself about

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Range four, Harry, this ridiculous prank. The nurse on duty,

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she's this kind older woman, asks him what's so funny,

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So Charles, still thinking it's all a gag, tells her

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Dwight's crazy story about the glowing horse and what supposedly

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happened to John.

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Speaker 2: Zimmerman and her reaction.

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Speaker 1: Her face just drops instantly, goes from like mild curios

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to dead serious concern. She tells him, hang on, I'll

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be right back. Charles hears her opening and closing this

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heavy metal filing cabinet in the back.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds ominous.

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Speaker 1: When she comes back, her voice is low, serious, almost grim.

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She tells him, look, I'm really not supposed to show

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you this. It's highly classified, but since you're going out

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to Range four, you need to know what's really out there.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, here it comes.

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Speaker 1: And that's when the proof hits him, tangible visceral proof.

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It just shatters his whole it's just a prank idea

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inside Zimmerman's medical file. She shows him four photos, horrific

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photos of Zimmerman. Yeah, a man just covered in these

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unspeakably awful radiation burns. God and Zimmerman's own fragmented memory

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all he could recall through the agony. A white horse

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came out of the North Range and charged him, charged him. Yeah,

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they found him out at Indian Springs, barely alive, in

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absolute agony. The injuries totally consistent with intense direct radiation exposure.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's horrifying. And suddenly the silly horse story isn't

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silly at all. That's irrefutable evidence right there for you listening.

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I mean, what would it take for you to believe

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something that sounds so crazy if you were staring at

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photos like that?

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Speaker 1: Exactly? For Charles, his stomach just sank. The laughter, the

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skepticism thinking it was just hazing, all gone evaporated. That

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playful prant turned into this chilling, terrifying reality range for

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Harry was real and horrifying. The fear he felt then

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it was deep primal.

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Speaker 2: I could only imagine. And then, not long after that shock,

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Charles meets Sully, the guy he's actually replacing.

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Speaker 1: Out there, right, And Sully seems like a good guy, initially, friendly, funny,

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easy to get along with. They do the usual handover

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stuff pleasantries. Sully takes Charles on a quick tour of

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a couple of the weather shacks out on the ranges. Okay,

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standard procedure, Yeah, but one of the shacks is locked

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for some reason. Sully just kind of shrugs, tells Charles, ah,

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just write down any old numbers, you know, typical government work.

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Speaker 2: Eh, okay, cut in corners.

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Speaker 1: But Charles, being the diligent guy he is, reminds Sully, hey,

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we've only checked three shacks. There are four more, Range one, two, three,

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and Range four.

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Speaker 2: Uh oh, range four.

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Speaker 1: And that's when Sully's whole vibe just shifts instantly. The

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easy smile gone, replaced by this mask of just raw.

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Speaker 2: Fear, palpable fear. You said, wow totally.

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Speaker 1: He reluctantly agrees, okay, fine, he'll take Charles to the

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other stations, but with one major exception. Range four absolutely

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not okay.

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Speaker 2: So he's terrified of Range four.

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Speaker 1: Terrified doesn't even cover it. When they get out to

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Range one, Sully won't even get out of the truck.

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He's just frozen, hands gripping the steering wheel, knuckles, white face, pale.

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He tells Charles if he wants to check the shack,

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he has to go alone.

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Speaker 2: Seriously, he won't even get out.

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Speaker 1: Nope. Sully says he'll keep watch. But then he adds

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this chilling line. He says, if he sees anything, he's

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gonna drive back to base for help, adding, if you

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hear me leave, lock yourself in the shack and wait,

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I'll come back for you.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's that's terrifying. That's like something out

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of a horror movie.

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Speaker 1: Lock yourself in and wait, right a season air Force

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guy just paralyzed by some unseen threat, and Charles, trying

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to process this, asks him, is this about range.

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Speaker 2: For Harry and Sully's reaction he.

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Speaker 1: Snaps back, like desperately, there's no such thing. But his

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body language, the white knuckles, the fear in his eyes,

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it screams the opposite. He wouldn't even take his hands

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off the wheel.

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Speaker 2: Wow, denial in the face of pure terror.

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Speaker 1: And when Charles goes into the shack on Range one

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and checks the log book, nobody had signed in.

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Speaker 2: For months, So Sully wasn't even going out there.

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Speaker 1: Nope, driven by this deep fear, he'd just been faking

283
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the weather readings. He later admitted it to Charles, shuddering,

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saying he would never ever go out to those ranges again.

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Speaker 2: The psychological impact there is just profound. You see this contrast, right,

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the friendly guy versus the man gricked by raw terror.

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It's not just a legend anymore. It's real fear that

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has completely broken this guy, made him unable to even

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do his job. Yeah, it really makes you think the

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true nature of whatever's out there is way more potent,

291
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more terrifying than any story could capture to cause that

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kind of reaction in trained military personnel. What could Sully

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have possibly seen or experience to justify that level of breakdown,

294
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The kind of fear that makes you abandon your post,

295
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lie to your superiors.

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Speaker 1: That is the chilling question, isn't it what happens when

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the enemy isn't in any training manual. So fast forward

298
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a few months, Charles Hall is spending more time alone

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out on those Indian Springs ranges than anyone.

300
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Speaker 2: Else, despite the warnings, despite the photos.

301
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because honestly, he kind of liked the peace and quiet,

302
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The vastness of the desert had this weird kind of calm.

303
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Plus he still hadn't actually seen range for Harry, so

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maybe he started thinking, you know, maybe Sully and Dwight

305
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were just easily spooped by the base legends.

306
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Speaker 2: Okay, maybe trying to rationalize it away could be So.

307
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Speaker 1: It's just another blazing hot day out there, ground temp

308
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easily one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty degrees fahrenheit,

309
00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:55,679
suffocating heat. Charles is in his weather shack kind of

310
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half dozing as the sun starts to set, just enjoying

311
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,399
the quiet. Listening to he called the songs of METARs.

312
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Speaker 2: Songs of METARs? What's that?

313
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Speaker 1: Just his term for the peaceful desert sounds, you know,

314
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birds chirping, bugs rustling the wind, just watching the sky

315
00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:14,919
turn those amazing desert colors fiery red and deep blue.

316
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Speaker 2: Sounds peaceful actually, despite the.

317
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Speaker 1: Heat, it was. But that's how it happens, right, the

318
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,320
mundane suddenly flips into the extraordinary. In that quiet moment,

319
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,200
watching the sunset, he sees something darting between the sagebrush.

320
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He blinks, thinks, maybe it's the heat playing tricks on

321
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,039
his eyes. But then it's there again, a flash of movement.

322
00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:36,759
First thought, big rabbit, maybe a coyote, something you'd expect

323
00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:39,600
to see. But it's covered in this brilliant white fur,

324
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:45,279
and it's moving weirdly, erratically, like it's in distress. He squints,

325
00:15:45,399 --> 00:15:47,159
tries to focus in the fading light, and then it

326
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,120
hits him the gut punch realization. It's not an animal.

327
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Speaker 2: Not an animal, then what it was? A child?

328
00:15:52,519 --> 00:15:55,559
Speaker 1: A child out there alone.

329
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 2: Barely three feet tall, skin as white as chalk, like plaster,

330
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wearing the shimmering silk jumpsuit, brilliant white blonde hair that

331
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,879
kind of caught the last sunlight, and bright blue eyes,

332
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and she looked absolutely terrified. Oh my god, just as

333
00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:12,279
terrified as Charles suddenly felt. She was tangled up in

334
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,679
the thorny brush, clearly stuck, whimpering.

335
00:16:14,919 --> 00:16:15,559
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay.

336
00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:18,519
Speaker 2: And this is where Charles's basic humanity just kicks in.

337
00:16:19,039 --> 00:16:22,080
Despite the shock, despite how utterly bizarre and alien, this

338
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,080
kid looked, that instinct to help someone small and in

339
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trouble just took over.

340
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Speaker 1: That's a powerful instinct, it is. He calls out to

341
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,240
her gently, says he won't hurt her. He carefully starts

342
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,679
clearing the brush around her so she can get free,

343
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,360
making it super clear he wasn't going to touch her.

344
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Speaker 2: Good thinking, ye, showing non aggression.

345
00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. He even leaves his canteen full of water on

346
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,720
a nearby fence post, tells her, if you're lost, I

347
00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:50,480
can help, just ask, he said, he thought of his

348
00:16:50,519 --> 00:16:53,440
own sister. You know, any kid in trouble, that urge

349
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,759
to protect just pushed right through the fear.

350
00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:59,759
Speaker 2: That act of compassion, that's huge. It goes beyond fear,

351
00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:02,279
confusion about who or what she is. It's just a

352
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,480
human response to vulnerability, and it totally sets the stage

353
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for what happens next. Right, Yeah, it's like a nonverbal signal,

354
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I mean no harm.

355
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Speaker 1: Absolutely critical moment, but the scene flips again from concern

356
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,799
back to just sheer terror for Charles.

357
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Speaker 2: Why what happens?

358
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Speaker 1: Just as he turns back towards his shack, maybe feeling

359
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,119
like he did the right thing, he hears this crashing

360
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,480
sound in the brush, something big, something fast, and getting closer,

361
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,599
like terrifyingly fast. He whips around and there he is

362
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,599
a very tall man, same features as the little girl

363
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,480
that chalk white skin, the white hair, the silver suit,

364
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and he is charging right at Charles's face, contorted in

365
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:43,279
just pure fury, charching man, and the sounds change, those

366
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:49,279
peaceful songs of meet ours gone, replaced by these piercing screeches.

367
00:17:49,319 --> 00:17:54,440
The whole desert just erupts in this chaotic, panicked, unnatural noise. Wow,

368
00:17:54,599 --> 00:17:57,680
Charles's mind must have been racing. Is this range for

369
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,559
Harry or something even scarier? He doesn't wait to find out.

370
00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:03,039
He dives back into the weather shack, slams the door,

371
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,960
barricades the best he can, questioning everything, but sure of

372
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,440
one thing. These were not human beings.

373
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Speaker 2: The terror, the retreat, barricading himself in classic fight or

374
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,400
flight playing out in this totally bizarre, extraordinary situation. Yeah,

375
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:18,759
so he's trapped in the shack.

376
00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:21,640
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, waits for what feels like forever, hours go by,

377
00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:24,640
pitch black inside, the sounds outside eventually just fade away

378
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,240
until he's quiet again, just the wind.

379
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:26,279
Speaker 2: You.

380
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,160
Speaker 1: Finally gets up the nerve to leave the shack. The

381
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,160
air feels different, charged. Maybe he looks over to where

382
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:32,960
he left the canteens.

383
00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 2: Is it still there?

384
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,720
Speaker 1: It is, but it's half empty and in the sand,

385
00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:40,200
clear as day. Are three sets of footprints, one small

386
00:18:40,519 --> 00:18:44,680
like a child's and two much larger, adult sized prints.

387
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,240
Speaker 2: Proof. Okay, so he wasn't hallucinating. It was real, three of.

388
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,880
Speaker 1: Them, undeniable proof. He scrambles to his jeep, just wants

389
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,200
out of there, peers back towards the base, trying to

390
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:55,880
escape this nightmare on the ranges.

391
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:56,920
Speaker 2: I'll blame him one bed.

392
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,839
Speaker 1: But the shocks aren't done yet, not even close. Driving

393
00:18:59,839 --> 00:19:02,559
like crazy across the desert, maybe just a few minutes later,

394
00:19:02,599 --> 00:19:06,240
he gets another jolt, even more profound, this time standing

395
00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:08,279
in the brush right next to the road, almost like

396
00:19:08,319 --> 00:19:11,599
she was waiting for him. Is this extremely tall woman,

397
00:19:11,759 --> 00:19:15,039
like well over six feet, same chalk white skin, same

398
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,880
shimmering silver hair that seems to glow almost phosphorescent in

399
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:19,559
the dim light.

400
00:19:19,759 --> 00:19:20,319
Speaker 2: Oh wow?

401
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,200
Speaker 1: Another one, yeah, and Charles feels that panic rising again. Right,

402
00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:28,720
another wave of fear. But then this incredibly profound sense

403
00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:32,440
of calm just washes over him, radiating from the woman.

404
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,400
Speaker 2: Radiating calm. How does that work?

405
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 1: He didn't know, but he felt it. And as he

406
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:41,920
drives past her slowly now, he hears her voice clear, distinct,

407
00:19:42,599 --> 00:19:46,559
not in his ears, though directly in his mind again telepathically.

408
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:47,319
Speaker 2: And what does she say?

409
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,759
Speaker 1: She thanked him for helping her daughter.

410
00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:51,960
Speaker 2: WHOA Okay, that changes everything, doesn't it.

411
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,799
Speaker 1: This overwhelming feeling of peace and gratitude just floods him

412
00:19:55,839 --> 00:19:59,039
coming from her. It completely overrides his fear. He said,

413
00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:01,440
he felt totally unab to be afraid even if he tried,

414
00:20:01,519 --> 00:20:04,519
just this deep sense of benevolence.

415
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 2: That's incredible helopathic communication, emotional projection. The implications are huge.

416
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,240
It shows a level of control and intimacy of interaction

417
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:17,720
that's almost beyond our human way of thinking. How would

418
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:21,160
that shape a society, being able to project emotions like that? Yeah,

419
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,079
and what does it say about their intentions? Maybe not

420
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,920
hostile despite the father's reaction.

421
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,160
Speaker 1: Maybe not. But once the woman disappears and that radiating

422
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,880
calm fades, the fear comes rushing back. Sickness hits him

423
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,599
like a ton of bricks, he says, slam on the bricks,

424
00:20:33,599 --> 00:20:36,599
stumble out of the jeep and just throws up violently

425
00:20:36,799 --> 00:20:38,039
psychological whiplash.

426
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see that the intensity is just too much.

427
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,559
Speaker 1: He vomits again, just shaking, gasping, the sheer intensity physically manifesting.

428
00:20:46,559 --> 00:20:50,119
But this interaction. This was the key Charles had completely

429
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,039
by accident, won the trust of one of these beings.

430
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,880
Beings the US government apparently had secretly nicknamed the Tall Whites.

431
00:20:57,599 --> 00:21:00,400
Speaker 2: The Tall Whites. Okay, so that's the name. And what

432
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:06,480
an absolutely insane, terrifying and then strangely peaceful first real encounter.

433
00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:08,720
It just blows the doors wide open for everything else

434
00:21:08,759 --> 00:21:11,640
that follows, right, Yeah, plunges Charles into this reality he

435
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,960
never even dreamed existed exactly.

436
00:21:14,079 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: So let's dig into these Tall Whites a bit more

437
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,680
based on what Charles Hall learned during his time out there.

438
00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:22,519
First off, what do they look like? Charles described them,

439
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,599
and other accounts seem to back this up. They're generally tall, yeah,

440
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,039
like five foot eleven to maybe six feet tall for

441
00:21:28,079 --> 00:21:30,720
most of their adult lives, but really thin, almost frail

442
00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:33,400
looking kind of ethereal right. And the skin, the skin

443
00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:35,759
is the striking thing, described as white as a piece

444
00:21:35,759 --> 00:21:38,680
of paper, almost see through. There's even this fascinating account

445
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,680
from way back in eighteen ninety six that calls their

446
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,599
skin polished ivory. Gives you a really vivid image, doesn't

447
00:21:44,599 --> 00:21:45,680
it fallish ivory?

448
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 2: Wow? Yeah, it does. And the hair and eyes.

449
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,559
Speaker 1: Hair is brilliant white blonde or this shimmering silver color,

450
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,720
almost metallic looking, and their eyes are this piercing bright blue.

451
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 2: It's fascinating. He's just thinking about the evolution path that

452
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,839
leads to traits like that, that super pale skin. For instance,

453
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,119
you mentioned they naturally live underground on their home planet.

454
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,599
That makes sense, right, lack of sun exposure like caved

455
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,920
dwelling species on Earth, losing pigment.

456
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

457
00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:18,039
Speaker 2: The whole look. It's like human ish, but also, as

458
00:22:18,079 --> 00:22:20,519
Charles Barley said, not like anything I had ever seen.

459
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:26,000
There's this indescribable beauty, but it's definitely alien. Hintset of

460
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,960
fundamentally different biology, maybe adapted perfectly to their own world.

461
00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:32,799
Speaker 1: And it's not just how they look. Their biology is, well,

462
00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:35,880
it's really peculiar, totally alien to how we understand life.

463
00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:39,480
For one thing, they age incredibly slowly, like mind bogglingly slowly.

464
00:22:39,559 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 2: How slowly are we talking?

465
00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:43,039
Speaker 1: Okay, get this. They have two main growth stages. The

466
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:46,039
first stage lasts until they're about four hundred years old.

467
00:22:45,599 --> 00:22:48,799
Four hundred years old. By then they reach their full

468
00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:52,119
adult height, maybe six or seven feet. But then they

469
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,559
hit a second growth stage.

470
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 2: There's more.

471
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, they can grow even taller, up to maybe eight

472
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,839
or nine feet, and get this, their bright blue eyes turn.

473
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 2: Pink pink guys. Wow, And their lifespan if they hit

474
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,160
four hundred and stage one, average.

475
00:23:04,839 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: Life span around eight hundred years.

476
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that just completely changes the game, doesn't it.

477
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:14,839
Imagine the societal implications culture memory, how you plan for

478
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,640
the future living for eight centuries, right, our.

479
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 1: Whole human life span is just a blip compared to that.

480
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,039
Speaker 2: Their history would be immense, their collective memory unimaginable. Their

481
00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:28,079
approach to long term projects to progress it would be

482
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,240
totally different from our short term thinking. They'd likely value

483
00:23:31,279 --> 00:23:35,680
patients long term vision wisdom gathered over centuries. Our human

484
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,279
focus on instant results will probably seem incredibly naive, almost

485
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:40,039
childish to them.

486
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it puts our whole existence into perspective.

487
00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 2: It also makes you wonder about their sense of urgency,

488
00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:48,319
or maybe their complete lack of it when dealing with us,

489
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,079
a species that lives and dies so quickly. Our timelines

490
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,680
are just fundamentally different.

491
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:58,039
Speaker 1: Mind boggling is the word eight hundred years. Okay, So

492
00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:01,400
moving on to their communication and mental abilities, this gets

493
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,960
even wilder, almost unsettling.

494
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 2: Like the telepathy exactly.

495
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: As Charles found out firsthand. They can communicate directly into

496
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,680
your mind, no sound needed. They can also project emotions.

497
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,799
Remember that overwhelming piece Charles felt, yeah.

498
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,759
Speaker 2: Or the paralyzing fear the cook felt earlier.

499
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,799
Speaker 1: Right. They can project that stuff into you, and they

500
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:24,400
can sense your emotional state too, makes lying to them

501
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,759
probably pretty difficult.

502
00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 2: Wow, talk about transparency.

503
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,599
Speaker 1: They can speak English apparently, but their natural voices totally

504
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,160
different range than ours, higher highs, lower lows, described as

505
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:39,079
sounding like songbirds are making warbling sounds. Probably sounds completely alien.

506
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 2: And you mentioned Charles observed the scene peaceful, but we're

507
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:43,839
always armed.

508
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a key point. Naturally peaceful, he thought, But

509
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,920
they always carried this pen like object. Charles described it

510
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,599
as being able to stun, damage, or even kill.

511
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 2: So peaceful but prepared. That's interesting. What does that suggest?

512
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,920
Maybe a history of conflict somewhere in their past, or

513
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:05,839
does practical self defense in the universe that might be

514
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,359
dangerous even if you're generally peaceful, could be either.

515
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,279
Speaker 1: Right, a sort of cautious philosophy.

516
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 2: It suggests this weird balance between their advanced empathy and

517
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,839
a kind of cold necessary caution, and think about, how

518
00:25:18,839 --> 00:25:22,559
would you listening right now, really communicate with beings who

519
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:25,160
can read your emotions and project theirs onto you. It

520
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,799
could lead to really deep connection, sure, but it also

521
00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:29,720
makes you incredibly vulnerable totally.

522
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,319
Speaker 1: So where did they come from their origin? Charles was

523
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,240
never told exactly where their home planet was. He got

524
00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:39,200
the feeling they kept it secret on purpose, maybe for safety,

525
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,599
maybe just to keep some mystery. But he did pick

526
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,039
up a few details. Their home world is supposedly hotter

527
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,000
and larger than Earth, and like we said, they naturally

528
00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:50,920
live underground there, which lines up with the pale skin

529
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:51,359
and all.

530
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,759
Speaker 2: That, right, the environmental adaptation.

531
00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:55,519
Speaker 1: And here's where it gets really interesting, especially if you

532
00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:59,240
follow other weird phenomena. One night, Charles is just chatting

533
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,799
with them casually mentions the star Arcturus, you know, big

534
00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:05,839
star in the constellation Boots.

535
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know Arcturus bright one.

536
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: Well, when he mentioned Arcturus, the tall whites all got

537
00:26:10,599 --> 00:26:13,519
super nervous, like visibly uncomfortable.

538
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 2: Really arcturis why?

539
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: Who knows? But that specific star system Arcturus has popped

540
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,799
up in other alleged alien contact stories and anomalous reports before.

541
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: Huh, okay, that is interesting, adds another layer coincidence, or

542
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,000
maybe it points to some bigger, connected, cosmic picture we're

543
00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:31,400
just not.

544
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: Seeing exactly makes you wonder.

545
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: And the fact that their home planet is hotter, bigger

546
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,640
and they live underground, it just hammers home. How different

547
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,200
their whole evolutionary journey must have been. How would that

548
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,039
shape how they see Earth, this wet surface dwelling world

549
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:53,200
and us. The mention of arcturists, their reaction, it suggests

550
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,160
not just an origin, but maybe a sensitive history or

551
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,799
a connection they guard really closely. Yeah, Like there's this

552
00:26:58,839 --> 00:27:02,839
whole complex, cosmic neighborhood out there, with its own politics,

553
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:03,559
its own secrets.

554
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,839
Speaker 1: It really does feel that way. So okay, if all

555
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:11,240
this is true, these advanced, telepathic, super long lived beings,

556
00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:15,039
what was Charles Hall's actual role if they already had

557
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:17,160
some kind of relationship with the US government, Like some

558
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,119
sources hint, why him? Why this random airman?

559
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: Good question? What's the story there?

560
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: The unbelievable truth, according to these accounts, is that Charles

561
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,839
wasn't just randomly assigned to Nellis. His commanders didn't just

562
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,960
pick his name out of a hat. His buddy Dwight

563
00:27:30,079 --> 00:27:34,160
didn't recommend him. No, then, how this seemingly random posting

564
00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:39,759
the quiet weather observer job totally staged. Charles was specifically

565
00:27:39,839 --> 00:27:43,440
chosen picked out by a committee, a committee made up

566
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,279
of high ranking US generals, government officials, and leaders of

567
00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:48,359
the Tall Whites themselves.

568
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,279
Speaker 2: WHOA Okay, that flips the script entirely, doesn't it.

569
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,039
Speaker 1: Charles wasn't just observing the weather, he was the one

570
00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:57,920
being observed. He was essentially an unwitting subject in this

571
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,960
massive interspecies experiment.

572
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: Unwitting they never told them, never.

573
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,559
Speaker 1: No classified briefings, no secret documents, no black ops read

574
00:28:05,599 --> 00:28:08,000
in nothing. He had no idea what his real assignment was.

575
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: Okay, ethically, that's incredibly problematic, isn't it using someone like

576
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,480
that without their knowledge or consent in something so profound,

577
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:19,519
potentially dangerous. What does that say about the power dynamics

578
00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:22,400
between US government and the Tall Whites, their willingness to

579
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,039
operate outside normal rules.

580
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,799
Speaker 1: It's a chilling thought for sure, that an individual could

581
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:29,200
just be used like a pawn in some larger game.

582
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,319
And this leads us right into this idea of the

583
00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:37,559
Unseen Deal. There have been rumors for years, right, whispers

584
00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:41,039
in certain circles that at least one alien race, maybe

585
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:44,480
more cut some kind of secret deal with the US government.

586
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,359
Speaker 2: Right, the Eisenhower rumors specifically.

587
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:50,799
Speaker 1: Exactly early nineteen fifty four President Eisenhower. But these aren't

588
00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:53,079
just fuzzy rumors anymore, at least according to some pretty

589
00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:57,480
hih level people. Paul Hellier remember him, former Canadian Defense Minister.

590
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, very credible source. Caused a stir. He spoke out,

591
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:01,680
huge stir.

592
00:29:01,839 --> 00:29:04,839
Speaker 1: He was one of the first really high ranking officials

593
00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:08,519
to go public. He confirmed live on air, quote, there

594
00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:10,920
are live ets on Earth at this present time, and

595
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,640
at least two of them probably working with the United

596
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:14,400
States government.

597
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:17,279
Speaker 2: That's a bombshell statement from someone like him. And didn't

598
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:19,759
his interests start because of a UFO scare during the

599
00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:21,920
Cold War? Thought there were Soviet planes.

600
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: That's the story. A squadron of UFO is mistaken for

601
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,720
Soviet bombers. Huge security alert. The investigation that followed, Hellier

602
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:32,880
claimed concluded at least four different species had been visiting

603
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,400
Earth for thousands of years.

604
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: Four species. Wow? Who did he mention?

605
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: He specifically talked about the grays, you know, short, big heads,

606
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,079
big eyes, the Nordic's very human looking ones and crucially

607
00:29:46,359 --> 00:29:47,160
the tall whites.

608
00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:52,079
Speaker 2: Okay, and thinking about the timing, the Cold War context,

609
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:55,640
the paranoia, the arms race, it makes a sort of

610
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,400
desperate sense, doesn't it. The fear of the Soviets getting

611
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,519
an edge or the sheer temptation of getting unimaginably advanced technology.

612
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,000
Maybe I could push a government to consider an alliance

613
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,960
that sounds completely crazy, even ethically questionable.

614
00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: Desperate times, desperate measures. Maybe the fear of a terrestrial

615
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,400
enemy or the lure of alien tech might have just

616
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,599
overridden everything else.

617
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 2: It speaks to a really intense period in history. So

618
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,839
what were the supposed terms of this deal? Do we know?

619
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: Well, the exact details are probably buried under mountains of

620
00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:27,640
classification if they exist, but the best guess the terms

621
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,640
that are usually floated in these circles are pretty staggering.

622
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,440
Like what it's believed the US agreed to let the

623
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,799
aliens build bases here on Earth undisturbed, like a sovereign territory.

624
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:40,519
And this is the really controversial part, allow the abduction

625
00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:41,559
of American citizens.

626
00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:42,559
Speaker 2: What abductions?

627
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,799
Speaker 1: Seriously, Yeah, as long as the government got a list

628
00:30:45,799 --> 00:30:48,960
of who was taken. In return, the US gets access

629
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,079
to alien technology.

630
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: Okay, that's a massive ethical line to cross, allowing abductions

631
00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:57,960
even with a list. Yeah, what kind of trade off

632
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,480
is that? It raises huge questions about individual rights versus

633
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,160
supposed national security?

634
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: It really does. What's a fair exchange when one side

635
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,880
has tech that could change the world and the other

636
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,279
controls the planet? Sort of the abduction part it suggests

637
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:16,119
either desperation or a really cold calculation on the government's part.

638
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:18,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what tech did the US want most?

639
00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:21,599
Speaker 1: According to the sources, top of the list was anti

640
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,440
gravity advanced propulsion systems, the stuff that would really let

641
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:27,240
humanity break free travel the stars.

642
00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, makes sense, the ultimate prize. Did they get it?

643
00:31:30,359 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: Allegedly? No, the aliens refused their reason humans were deemed

644
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,880
quote too violent and dangerous to be let out of

645
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:37,720
our cage.

646
00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: Our cage meaning Earth. Wow.

647
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,319
Speaker 1: That's harsh, pretty blunt assessment, isn't it? And it's funny

648
00:31:42,319 --> 00:31:44,880
you look back at aerospace discussions in the early fifties,

649
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,559
anti gravity was hot topic, lots of theoretical talk. Then

650
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:54,359
suddenly poof classified vanished from public discussion.

651
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: Coincidence or maybe they did get something and it immediately

652
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:58,440
got locked down.

653
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:01,079
Speaker 1: That's the question, right, And what the implications of that

654
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,519
holding back tech that could revolutionize space travel, keeping humanity

655
00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:07,960
penned in, and what happens if we ever break out

656
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,880
of that cage on our own? It's a chilling thought,

657
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,480
one species judging another like.

658
00:32:12,359 --> 00:32:14,759
Speaker 2: That, It really is. On what grounds do they make

659
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:18,400
that call our history of war, our environmental track record?

660
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,839
Maybe from their eight hundred year perspective, our short violent

661
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,200
history looks incredibly reckless. But okay, so they refused anti

662
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,680
graph and propulsion. Did the US get anything? Oh?

663
00:32:27,759 --> 00:32:31,079
Speaker 1: Yeah? Despite that big refusal, the US allegedly did get

664
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,000
help with other stuff, a lot of stuff actually, leading

665
00:32:34,039 --> 00:32:37,240
to what some people call the Great leap in human technology.

666
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:38,079
Speaker 2: The Great leap?

667
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: Okay, Like, think about titanium discovered way back in seventeen

668
00:32:42,039 --> 00:32:45,119
ninety one, right, super strong, super light metal, but incredibly

669
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,200
hard to work with, expensive.

670
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,519
Speaker 2: To produce, difficult material.

671
00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:51,759
Speaker 1: Then suddenly, in the nineteen fifties it starts showing up

672
00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:55,599
everywhere in cutting edge military aviation. The F one hundred

673
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,400
super saberjet, the Revolutionary lock hey Day twelve, the precursor

674
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,160
to the SR seventy one, blackbird flying at Mock three,

675
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,640
plus stealth aircraft development, all heavily reliant on titanium. How

676
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,839
do we suddenly master this difficult, expensive metal so quickly,

677
00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:13,200
right when we needed it for supersonic flight?

678
00:33:13,359 --> 00:33:15,519
Speaker 2: It's a good question. The timing is convenient. What else?

679
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: Transistors, allegedly alien tech allowed everything electronic to shrink dramatically,

680
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,839
paved the way for the entire digital age. Lasers popped

681
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,400
up in nineteen fifty eight, changed medicine, communications everything, same

682
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,839
year fiber optics and the big one, the microchip.

683
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 2: All in fifty eight.

684
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: That followed the next year in nineteen fifty nine by

685
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:34,359
the integrated circuit.

686
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,799
Speaker 2: The sheer speed of that and stagger it you put

687
00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:39,720
it propective eni ass The first big computer in forty

688
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:44,559
seven weighed thirty tons, filled a room, eighteen thousand vacuum tubes,

689
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,359
right a monster. Eleven years later, nineteen fifty eight, you're

690
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,960
talking about putting all that computing power essentially onto a

691
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,480
single chip. That's not just progress. That's like a quantum leap,

692
00:33:55,839 --> 00:33:58,119
an exponential jump in less than a decade.

693
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,799
Speaker 1: Exactly. Is that just human genius suddenly exploding everywhere at once?

694
00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:04,960
Or does the sheer scale of that leap, that sudden

695
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:09,000
miniaturization and complexity. Hint at maybe it outside push.

696
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:12,679
Speaker 2: It makes you wonder these technologies didn't just tweak things,

697
00:34:13,039 --> 00:34:18,480
They fundamentally reshape society. The digital revolution, modern comms, advanced defense,

698
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,119
our connected world, it all flows from that period. It's

699
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:25,000
almost too fast, too revolutionary to seem purely coincidental.

700
00:34:25,079 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: And the list goes on. Source of suggest other tech

701
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,639
came from this deal too, either gifted directly or reverse

702
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:34,159
engineered with help, things like the basic principles behind satellites,

703
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:39,079
early wireless communication, UAVs onman drones right now they're everywhere,

704
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:40,559
even night vision technology.

705
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:44,119
Speaker 2: It's like a checklist of foundational modern tech cornerstones of

706
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,679
military power in everyday life. It paints this picture where, yeah,

707
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,480
maybe we didn't get the keys to the galaxy of

708
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:50,880
the starfaring stuff.

709
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:52,639
Speaker 1: Right kept in the cage.

710
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:58,159
Speaker 2: But humanity still got this incredible, almost unbelievable technological boost

711
00:34:58,519 --> 00:35:01,239
changed our entire trajectory in ways we might not even

712
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:01,920
fully grasp.

713
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,079
Speaker 1: So. Charles Hall, having kind of accidentally earned the trust

714
00:35:06,119 --> 00:35:09,239
of these tall whites with that act of kindness helping

715
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,079
Kyle over time, he apparently got to see some of

716
00:35:12,119 --> 00:35:15,239
this amazing technology up close. He even saw one of

717
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:16,320
their scout ships.

718
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: Okay, what did it look like?

719
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: And this description, it might sound really familiar to anyone

720
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,320
who follows UFO reports. He said it was roughly the

721
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,159
size of a bus, elliptical shape, white.

722
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: Color, bus size, the elliptical white. Okay, yeah, that rings

723
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,239
a bell. The tic tac UFOs everyone.

724
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,079
Speaker 1: Talks about exactly. And here's another weird detail. He mentioned

725
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,920
they had this limitation they could only land on Earth

726
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,039
during a full moon.

727
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 2: Full moon landings. That's specific why.

728
00:35:41,199 --> 00:35:43,079
Speaker 1: He didn't know why, just that it was a rule

729
00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:46,159
for them. But that whole description, the size, shape, color,

730
00:35:46,199 --> 00:35:49,840
even the weird operational quirk, it really echoes these sightings

731
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,519
that have puzzled people for years.

732
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 2: It really does. It's where the public fascination with UAPs

733
00:35:55,599 --> 00:35:59,599
with tic TACs seems to directly connect with Charles Hall's

734
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:03,119
personal account. It doesn't prove that Tall Whites exist, maybe,

735
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,000
but it adds this weird layer of corroboration about the

736
00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:09,639
craft themselves, that something matching that description is out there.

737
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:13,159
Speaker 1: But then comes the really mind blowing twist. Something Charles

738
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,519
learned from the Tall Whites during his time with them,

739
00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:19,400
a twist that, if it's true, just completely reframes the

740
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,760
whole UFO debate. Okay, what is it those scout crafts,

741
00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:26,320
the bus sized, white elliptical ones, the kick tacks. Yeah,

742
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,719
according to Charles, they aren't alien at all.

743
00:36:29,079 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: Wait, what not alien?

744
00:36:30,519 --> 00:36:30,599
Speaker 1: Then?

745
00:36:30,679 --> 00:36:31,159
Speaker 2: What are they?

746
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: They're built right here on Earth by government contractors companies

747
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,199
we all know, Boeing.

748
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: Lockheed, built by Boeing and Lockheed.

749
00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: Seriously, that's what he claims he was told Lockheed skunk Works,

750
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:46,320
specifically their super secret Advanced Development program known for building

751
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,159
exotic classified aircraft. They're implicated.

752
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, that completely turns the narrative upside down.

753
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,559
If that's true, it means what we think are alien

754
00:36:56,599 --> 00:36:59,960
ships might actually be human build craft using alien ti

755
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,079
or designs. Maybe from that deal.

756
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:03,079
Speaker 1: That's the implication.

757
00:37:03,199 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: So the debate shifts, right, it's not just our aliens

758
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,360
visiting us. It becomes how deep is the collaboration between

759
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,159
human industry and non human intelligence, and how much of

760
00:37:13,199 --> 00:37:15,599
what people are seeing in the sky is actually ours,

761
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,760
built in secret, maybe using tech we weren't supposed to have,

762
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,320
or at least that the public doesn't know.

763
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: About exactly. Maybe the mystery is an entirely extraterrestrial maybe

764
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,159
a big part of it is domestic, hidden right under

765
00:37:27,159 --> 00:37:27,800
our noses.

766
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,599
Speaker 2: Wow, built by lockeed. That's a bombshell, And it leads

767
00:37:31,639 --> 00:37:35,639
to this kind of well, frankly unflattering view of humanity's

768
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,400
role in this whole cosmic setup, at least from the

769
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,400
perspective of some military people who were supposedly in the know.

770
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,199
Speaker 1: Yeah. According to the sources, a lot of the military

771
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,119
folks believe the tall Whites just use Earth as basically

772
00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:50,039
a pit stop, a truck stop quote unquote, or a

773
00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:51,719
refueling station in the middle of.

774
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:54,599
Speaker 2: The Solar System, a truck stop ouch.

775
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: Reasons, given Earth's got lots of raw materials. They need

776
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,440
to embrace yourself. It happens to have smart little who

777
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,000
can make somewhat decent vehicles, little apes.

778
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:08,159
Speaker 2: Oh that's rough. A pretty cynical utilitarian view of us.

779
00:38:08,159 --> 00:38:10,559
Speaker 1: Tells you how they might see us. Right, We're useful

780
00:38:10,559 --> 00:38:15,679
for our manufacturing skills and our planet's resources. Not exactly equals.

781
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,639
Speaker 2: It highlights that potential dynamic, doesn't it resource extraction Viewing

782
00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:24,719
a less developed species purely pragmatically. Charles Hall did learn though,

783
00:38:25,039 --> 00:38:27,920
that the real Tall White ships, the ones for star travel,

784
00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:33,239
they're different, huge black triangular ships made of titanium, way

785
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,480
bigger and more advanced than the little scoutcraft.

786
00:38:35,599 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the tic TACs are just their local runabouts basically

787
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,639
for flying around within a solar system. The triangles are

788
00:38:41,679 --> 00:38:42,679
the interstellar cruisers.

789
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,039
Speaker 2: Okay. And while the Toll Whites are overseeing our tech development,

790
00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:49,719
giving us these leaps, they specifically held back the most

791
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,320
important stuff, right, no light speed, no anti gravity for

792
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,239
our own ships, still keeping us in the cage.

793
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: Still deciding we're not ready for that kind of power

794
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,440
freedom yet. Get this, sources say high ranking US military

795
00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:07,719
brass generals, admirals, they've actually been taken on tours on

796
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,639
the Tall White ships, seeing the Solar system up close.

797
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,199
Speaker 2: Seriously, Solar system tours for generals. Wow.

798
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And apparently seeing all that, the American generals got ambitious,

799
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,920
wanted to expand human operations out to other planets, stake

800
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:21,800
our claim.

801
00:39:21,639 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 2: And the Tall Whites said.

802
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: Same answer, Nope, humans aren't ready yet, not ready to

803
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:26,559
leave the nest.

804
00:39:27,039 --> 00:39:32,039
Speaker 2: That whole concept of readiness from their perspective, it's fascinating

805
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:35,639
and kind of paternalistic, isn't it? What's the criteria? Tech level,

806
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,440
social maturity, our tendency to fight our environmental mess?

807
00:39:40,679 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: Who knows it?

808
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 2: Presents this picture of a possible human future in space,

809
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:48,159
but one that's totally controlled. Our destiny isn't our own?

810
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,800
It depends on getting approval from this older, more powerful species.

811
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,599
Charles Hall, though, despite all that, he seemed to believe

812
00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:58,400
there was real trade happening, a two way street, and

813
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,440
that the Tall Whites would eventually let us move out

814
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,320
inhabit other worlds when they decided we were finally.

815
00:40:04,039 --> 00:40:08,639
Speaker 1: Ready a complex relationship, guardianship, maybe for better or worse.

816
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,280
So if this is all happening, what did the Tall

817
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,000
Whites actually want with Charles Hall? Just some random airman

818
00:40:15,159 --> 00:40:18,519
first class? If they're dealing with generals and presidents, why him?

819
00:40:18,599 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? What was his specific purpose in their eyes?

820
00:40:21,199 --> 00:40:25,079
Speaker 1: The answer is kind of simple but also profound. Charles

821
00:40:25,159 --> 00:40:27,440
was part of an experiment. He was a chosen subject.

822
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,559
He was being studied, especially by that woman he helped,

823
00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:32,639
the mother of the child, the one he came to

824
00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:34,239
call the teacher.

825
00:40:34,199 --> 00:40:38,079
Speaker 2: Ah, the teacher. So it was about learning, mutual learning exactly.

826
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: It became this unique intimate exchange. The teacher taught Charles

827
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,639
all about her people, their biology, their long lives, their culture,

828
00:40:45,679 --> 00:40:49,199
their tech, how they thought, and in return, Charles, just

829
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,000
by being himself, taught her about humans.

830
00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: Without even knowing he was teaching.

831
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: Probably right, Our quirks are crazy, emotions are illogical ways sometimes,

832
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,880
but also our compassion or capacity for good and bad.

833
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,679
He became, as he put it, the teacher's pet, a

834
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,280
kind of living bridge between two totally different species that.

835
00:41:07,199 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 2: Goes way beyond just observation, doesn't it It suggests real

836
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,880
curiosity on their part, a mutual exchange. Yeah, what can

837
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,320
we possibly teach a species that centuries ahead of us technologically?

838
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:25,280
Maybe about raw humanity, adaptability, resilience, love, things tech can't replicate.

839
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: Could be in this relationship. Charles said, it became deeply

840
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,800
emotional with the tall Whites. Despite them always having those

841
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,360
stunner pens, he felt he was never actually in danger

842
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:33,880
around them.

843
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,119
Speaker 2: Wow, that speaks volumes about the bond he formed, right,

844
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,719
especially with the teacher, Empathy crossing the species barrier, feeling understood,

845
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,639
maybe even valued by these alien beings.

846
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, but imagine the psychological weight of that. Forming such

847
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,400
a close bond with non humans. It would mess with

848
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,400
your head right, blur the lines of who you are,

849
00:41:52,559 --> 00:41:53,840
change your whole view of the world.

850
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely, to have that kind of connection, that profound understanding

851
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,920
and then have it just end, that would leave a mark,

852
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:02,960
a life defining experience you could probably never truly share

853
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:03,519
with anyone.

854
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: And it did end abruptly. Charles's whole incredible life changing experience.

855
00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:11,519
It lasted just two years, in tense years, nineteen sixty

856
00:42:11,559 --> 00:42:13,159
five to nineteen sixty.

857
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 2: Seven, only two years.

858
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: Wow.

859
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,679
Speaker 2: Then in sixty seven, Bam orders change. He's deployed to Vietnam,

860
00:42:20,039 --> 00:42:22,760
thrown right back into the brutal reality of human war.

861
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,639
Speaker 1: Talk about whiplash from consorting with aliens to the jungles

862
00:42:26,639 --> 00:42:27,199
of Vietnam.

863
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 2: Seriously, and he never saw the Tall Whites again, never.

864
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: Wow.

865
00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 2: Carried that secret, that unbelievable reality, that deep personal connection

866
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,760
with him for almost forty years, forty years of silence,

867
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,639
before he finally decided okay, time to tell the story,

868
00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:44,920
release his book starting in two thousand and two.

869
00:42:45,079 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: Forty years. Just imagine carrying that weight, the conflict inside,

870
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,039
knowing this incredible truth or what you believe to be true,

871
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,679
but knowing the ridicule, the disbelief, the professional risk if

872
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,039
you speak out, What finally makes someone break that silence

873
00:42:59,079 --> 00:42:59,840
after so long?

874
00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: Good question.

875
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,639
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a sense of duty, a need to

876
00:43:02,639 --> 00:43:05,159
share something you think is fundamentally important about our place

877
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:07,800
in the universe, no matter the personal cost. It takes

878
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,840
incredible conviction, it really does.

879
00:43:10,159 --> 00:43:13,079
Speaker 2: And when he finally did decide to publish, it wasn't easy.

880
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,360
He wrote his first book, Millennial Hospitality, tried to get

881
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,360
it published in two thousand and two. No traditional publisher

882
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:19,960
would touch it.

883
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: Too weird, too unbelievable.

884
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 2: Exactly, too out there, too risky, which ironically was probably

885
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,840
a mistake on their part because he's self published and

886
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,280
the book took off, became this unexpected hit, led to

887
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,559
two more books pretty quickly.

888
00:43:34,639 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: Wow, grassroots success.

889
00:43:36,519 --> 00:43:40,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. Then he started doing the rounds you know, UFO conventions,

890
00:43:40,159 --> 00:43:43,199
book signings, TV interviews. He was even on Coast to

891
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,480
Coast with George Norri back in two thousand and five,

892
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,880
sharing his story with a huge audience that was eager

893
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:49,320
to hear it.

894
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,119
Speaker 1: That journey itself is fascinating, right from this deeply personal

895
00:43:53,199 --> 00:43:57,360
secret to public phenomenon. Why do stories like his sometimes

896
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,559
bypass the usual gatekeepers and just resonate with people. Yeah,

897
00:44:00,599 --> 00:44:03,400
why maybe it taps into that underlying feeling a lot

898
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,119
of people have that there's more going on than we're told,

899
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,119
that desire to believe in something bigger, something extraordinary. Of course,

900
00:44:10,159 --> 00:44:12,960
that attention also brings out the intense skeptics trying to

901
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,280
debunk him, and the passionate believers trying to prove him right.

902
00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:19,639
And that's where the hunt for proof really starts, trying

903
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,360
to sort fact from fiction in a story this wild. Because,

904
00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:27,039
let's be honest, Charles's story relies heavily on his word,

905
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:31,440
his conviction, but supporters point to these three other witnesses,

906
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:36,800
unnamed witnesses known only as A, B and c AH.

907
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,199
Speaker 2: The anonymous source is.

908
00:44:38,159 --> 00:44:41,559
Speaker 1: Always tricky, right, They allegedly confirmed parts of his story,

909
00:44:41,599 --> 00:44:45,599
claimed similar experiences, but without names, you can't really verify

910
00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:49,360
it independently. It's intriguing, sure, having multiple accounts, but it's

911
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,159
not solid proof exactly.

912
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 2: Corroboration is tough with anonymous claims. But then there's the

913
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,239
research by David Hilton. You mentioned em earlier, the historian

914
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:58,159
and anthropologist.

915
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, David Hilton's work is maybe the most compelling external stuff.

916
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,440
He got really interested in hall story and decided to

917
00:45:04,519 --> 00:45:07,320
use modern tools to try and find physical traces. His

918
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,360
specific goal locate Charles's old weather stations out on those

919
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:11,400
bombing ranges.

920
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,559
Speaker 2: Using maps and satellite imagery exactly.

921
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 1: And he found this key photo, an official military aerial

922
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,079
photo of Creech Air Force Base down in Indian Springs.

923
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:24,679
It clearly showed range one to three and crucially ranged

924
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,559
four Harry's hood right, the tall white hotspot. Okay, what

925
00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:31,519
was significant about the photo The markings on the photo

926
00:45:31,559 --> 00:45:35,760
itself official looking labels, things like scoutcraft hangar, scoutcraft parking

927
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,599
and even resting in play area.

928
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: Scoutcraft hangar, Yeah, marked on an official photo right.

929
00:45:41,159 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 1: So, armed with that, and with Charles's description of the

930
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,800
scoutcraft elliptical white bus size landing at full moon, Hilton

931
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,800
starts scouring those exact locations using digital mapping tools like

932
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:52,800
Google Earth back.

933
00:45:52,679 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 2: Then, and did he find anything?

934
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 1: He found a stif that was remarkably consistent, images of

935
00:45:56,519 --> 00:45:59,079
elliptical white objects about the size of a bus, sitting

936
00:45:59,079 --> 00:46:01,840
near some kind of platform or structure in these remote

937
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,239
spots with no visible roads, no paths leading to them,

938
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,039
matching Charles's descriptions of the scoutcraft and their supposed recreational

939
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:10,360
areas almost perfectly.

940
00:46:10,599 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 2: Okay, that's that's pretty compelling. Finding visual anomalies that matched

941
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:20,880
the description in the exact locations indicated by potentially classified markings. Yeah,

942
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,239
that's more than just coincidence.

943
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,119
Speaker 1: It feels like more. Yeah, and it got others excited too.

944
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,719
David and his online audience, they became like digital detectives

945
00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:33,440
started meticulously scanning the maps all around those old bombing ranges.

946
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,760
David initially found eighteen separate sites that looked anomalous. Others

947
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,039
found more what kind of sites? Lots of clearly man

948
00:46:41,079 --> 00:46:45,159
made structures or odd ground disturbances in the middle of nowhere,

949
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,400
again with no obvious way to get to them by

950
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,360
road or trail, nothing to explain why they were there

951
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:51,880
in these restricted zones.

952
00:46:51,639 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 2: Hidden infrastructure basically seems like it.

953
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,159
Speaker 1: And here's the kicker that really fuels the speculation. Many

954
00:46:57,159 --> 00:47:00,320
of those specific spots David Hilton and others identified later

955
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,480
got scrubbed from the public mapping services.

956
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,039
Speaker 2: Scrubbed like blurred out or removed.

957
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,159
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, okay, there could be legitimate security reasons for that,

958
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,239
updating imagery, whatever, but the timing after people started pointing

959
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,519
them out online. It definitely feeds the conspiracy theories, makes

960
00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:18,079
it look like someone's trying to hide something.

961
00:47:18,199 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 2: It certainly adds weight to the claim of hidden activity,

962
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,039
doesn't it. Whether it's related to tall whites or just

963
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,559
top secret military stuff. You wonder what else is hidden

964
00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:30,000
out there, just waiting to be noticed then maybe erased.

965
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,920
And the lack of roads, the remoteness, it leads straight

966
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:34,679
to that big.

967
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 1: Theory, right underground access Exactly.

968
00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:40,079
Speaker 2: How else do you get to these isolated structures, which

969
00:47:40,159 --> 00:47:43,639
immediately brings up the huge practical problem money.

970
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, building a massive tunnel network miles long deep

971
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,440
under a bombing range that would be insanely expensive, colossal

972
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,639
engineering feed you'd expect a massive paper trail, right, Spending

973
00:47:55,679 --> 00:47:57,559
like that is hard to hide completely.

974
00:47:57,159 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 2: You'd think, so billions of dollars.

975
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,639
Speaker 1: And this is where David Heldlton struck gold again. Digging

976
00:48:01,679 --> 00:48:04,679
through old records, he found this article from January nineteen

977
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,159
fifty one, Las Vegas Review Journal headline Indian Springs project

978
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:10,519
key to defense plans.

979
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 2: Okay, what did it say?

980
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,039
Speaker 1: It explicitly stated the project cost three hundred million dollars

981
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:17,760
in nineteen fifty one.

982
00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:20,519
Speaker 2: Dollars three hundred million in nineteen fifty one, that's astronomical.

983
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: What's thatt today with inflation easily three point six billion dollars,

984
00:48:23,639 --> 00:48:26,519
maybe more comparable to building something like the Freedom Tower

985
00:48:26,519 --> 00:48:28,840
in New York. A massive amount of money, and the

986
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,639
official purpose stated in the article housing and offices.

987
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,679
Speaker 2: Three point six billion dollars for housing and offices out

988
00:48:35,679 --> 00:48:38,199
at the Indian Springs. That doesn't add up. You look

989
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,719
at the base now, there's nothing above ground that justifies

990
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,559
that kind of cost, not even close. So where did

991
00:48:43,559 --> 00:48:44,039
the money go?

992
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: Great question? The contract for this project official job number

993
00:48:47,519 --> 00:48:51,559
twelve sixty seven Alternate test site Facilities, Las Vegas, Nevada

994
00:48:51,679 --> 00:48:55,480
went to Mkey Construction in El Paso. Government contracts are

995
00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:58,559
public record, So when the records for that specific.

996
00:48:58,199 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 2: Job were checked, how much was it actually for?

997
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: Officially recorded cost six hundred and eighty thousand dollars.

998
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,679
Speaker 2: Six hundred and eighty thousand, not three hundred million.

999
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: Nop. So you've got a public announcement of a three

1000
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:13,159
hundred million dollar project and an official record of less

1001
00:49:13,159 --> 00:49:16,360
than seven hundred dollars k being spent on that job number.

1002
00:49:17,039 --> 00:49:20,639
That leaves well, basically all of it two hundred and

1003
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,079
ninety nine million dollars plus nineteen fifty one money almost

1004
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:26,880
three point six billion dollars to day, completely unaccounted for.

1005
00:49:27,079 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 2: Wow, that's that's the smoking gun, isn't it, Or at

1006
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,719
least a massive pluma smoke where a gun should.

1007
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: Be right, And the original newspaper article even said quote

1008
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,320
the actual details of the program are cloaked in a

1009
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,880
security blackout, very telling. Plus, locals who asked about work

1010
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,119
on this huge project back then they were told the

1011
00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:47,360
military wasn't using any outside labor, implying a secret internal workforce.

1012
00:49:47,559 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 2: So the money vanished. It wasn't spent above ground, The

1013
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,400
details were blacked out, no outside workers. The logical leap

1014
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:54,239
isn't that big, is it?

1015
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: Where else could it go if not above ground? An

1016
00:49:57,039 --> 00:49:59,719
underground building, those tunnels, those hidden facilities.

1017
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 2: That financial discrepancy, more than almost anything else, shifts the focus.

1018
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,440
It's not just about potentially speculative alien stories anymore. It

1019
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,360
points towards real world government secrecy, black budgets operating on

1020
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,760
a scale that's just staggering. What does that kind of

1021
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:20,199
missing money, suggest about hidden operations deep within our own system.

1022
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,960
For you listening, how do you react to finding a

1023
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,320
gap like that in the public record? Yeah, billions just gaunt,

1024
00:50:27,679 --> 00:50:29,960
cloaked in silence. It really makes you wonder what else

1025
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:31,679
is buried literally and figuratively.

1026
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 1: So, after this whole journey, this really deep dive into

1027
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,679
Charles Hall's absolutely extraordinary story, we land back at that

1028
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,920
big question do you believe it? Can you believe something

1029
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,880
so unbelievable? Charles Hall's account of the Tall Whites. For

1030
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,039
many in the UFO community, it's seen as one of

1031
00:50:46,039 --> 00:50:49,000
the most credible stories out there, aliens living and working

1032
00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:53,400
right alongside humans. But like almost all these stories, there's

1033
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,559
no definitive physical proof. We can just point to no

1034
00:50:55,639 --> 00:50:58,199
piece of alien tech on display, no undisputed video. We

1035
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,920
have the detailed, consistent word of Charles Hall himself, backed

1036
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,679
up by some intriguing but still circumstantial external.

1037
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 2: Research, and evaluating claims like this is always tough, isn't it,

1038
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,039
That balance between being open minded and being skeptical. Charles

1039
00:51:13,039 --> 00:51:15,119
Hall does sound sincere when he tells his story. You

1040
00:51:15,159 --> 00:51:17,519
feel his conviction and that's compelling.

1041
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,599
Speaker 1: It draw you in it really does.

1042
00:51:19,679 --> 00:51:21,679
Speaker 2: But sincerity alone is in proof. Right.

1043
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1044
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 2: History is full of sincere people who are mistaken or

1045
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:28,159
misled or even outright hoaxing. And there's that one detail

1046
00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:31,199
to give some people pause. He initially published his books

1047
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:35,519
as science fiction, millennial hospitality started his fiction. Only later

1048
00:51:35,559 --> 00:51:37,320
did he say no, this actually happened to me.

1049
00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: Right. Supporters say, maybe that was just a tactic, a

1050
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:41,920
way to get the story out when no one would

1051
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,840
publish it as nonfiction, but skeptics definitely point to that

1052
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,599
as a potential red flag. Why the change in framing.

1053
00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: And those other three witnesses, A, B, and C again

1054
00:51:53,559 --> 00:51:57,480
intriguing that others might corroborate, but being anonymous it makes

1055
00:51:57,559 --> 00:52:00,800
independent verification basically impossible, which.

1056
00:52:00,599 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: Brings us to this other layer, a really modern, messy

1057
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:08,159
layer disinformation. Remember that weird Forbes article from January twenty fourteen.

1058
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,199
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the Iran one headline was something like Iran

1059
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:16,760
says tall white space aliens control America. Wild stuff, totally wild.

1060
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: It claimed the US is ruled by tall whites, deal

1061
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:24,000
with Eisenhower in fifty four, basically echoing parts of Hall's story.

1062
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,639
But then it went further, claiming that tall Whites helped

1063
00:52:26,639 --> 00:52:29,159
the Nazis rise to power in the thirties.

1064
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,679
Speaker 2: And they attributed it to Edward Snowden.

1065
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:33,639
Speaker 1: Didn't They said he linked it, which adds another layer

1066
00:52:33,679 --> 00:52:37,559
of craziness. But Forbes itself quickly concluded it was almost

1067
00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:41,760
certainly Russian disinformation planted via the Fars News agency, which

1068
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,880
is basically run by the Iranian government.

1069
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,199
Speaker 2: And that just shows you how complex this gets. Right,

1070
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:48,719
you got the original story, the search for evidence, and

1071
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,480
then suddenly geopolitical players are using elements of the narrative,

1072
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,159
twisting it, maybe for their own information with warfare goals,

1073
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:01,199
trying to sow distrust, confusion, maybe disco us institutions.

1074
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 1: It makes it so hard to untangle. How do you

1075
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:08,199
sort out genuine claims from deliberate falsehoods designed to manipulate people,

1076
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,719
Even if it's disinformation, Just putting those ideas out there

1077
00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:16,079
influences public perception, praise on existing anxieties about secret control.

1078
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:20,039
Speaker 2: Which leads us right to that final enduring idea, the

1079
00:53:20,119 --> 00:53:24,360
shadow government. Regardless of whether you believe Charles Hall's specific

1080
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,159
story about the Tall Whites is true, whether they exist

1081
00:53:27,199 --> 00:53:31,119
exactly as he described, there's this persistent, widespread belief. Isn't

1082
00:53:31,119 --> 00:53:34,559
there this deep suspicion about a secret regime, as shadow government,

1083
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,199
pulling the strings behind the scenes.

1084
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,039
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it resonates with a lot.

1085
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: Of people and this alleged cabal who supposedly in it.

1086
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,719
You hear the same names Council on Foreign Relations, Builder Birders,

1087
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:50,679
Trilateral Commission, big international banks, oil cartels, intelligence agencies, certain

1088
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,280
military factions.

1089
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,199
Speaker 1: The usual suspects in these theories.

1090
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,159
Speaker 2: Right, And the claim is their influence is huge, controlling

1091
00:53:58,199 --> 00:54:00,320
not just the US but much of the Western world.

1092
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,320
And that's a powerful closing thought, isn't it. Forget aliens

1093
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,079
for a second. Just the idea of powerful, unelected groups

1094
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:10,679
secretly influencing global events. That's a potent concept on its own.

1095
00:54:11,039 --> 00:54:14,360
It speaks to our de seated questions about power, secrecy,

1096
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:15,559
and who's really in charge.

1097
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: It really does. It taps into that feeling that maybe

1098
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,280
the world doesn't quite work the way we're told it does,

1099
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,119
that there are hidden forces at play.

1100
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,039
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's a testament to the idea that maybe some

1101
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,599
secrets are too big, too sensitive for the public, And

1102
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,599
whether aliens are involved or not, there's always this sense

1103
00:54:32,639 --> 00:54:35,599
that there's more happening behind the curtain than we'll ever

1104
00:54:35,639 --> 00:54:36,199
truly know.

1105
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,039
Speaker 1: And that wraps up our deep dive into this absolutely

1106
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:44,119
extraordinary and frankly yeah, mind bending account from Charles Hall,

1107
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:48,400
the alleged secret history of Nellis Air Force Base. We've

1108
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:52,119
gone from chilling encounters in the desert night to profiling

1109
00:54:52,159 --> 00:54:55,760
these strange, long lived beings with incredible abilities. We've talked

1110
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,280
about supposed secret deals, trading human rights for advanced tech,

1111
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,760
hold the money trail, hinching at a hidden underground world

1112
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,079
built with billions of missing dollars.

1113
00:55:05,639 --> 00:55:08,679
Speaker 2: We saw how just a quiet assignment could hide these

1114
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,639
massive secrets, how a simple act of kindness could open

1115
00:55:11,679 --> 00:55:14,559
a door to something completely unknown, and how those sudden

1116
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:17,119
bursts of technology in our own recent history might just

1117
00:55:17,159 --> 00:55:20,480
have an explanation that's well out of this world. We

1118
00:55:20,559 --> 00:55:22,920
also wrestled with how hard it is to prove claims

1119
00:55:23,039 --> 00:55:27,920
like this, anonymous witnesses, intriguing map coordinates, and even navigating

1120
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,760
international disinformation that uses these very stories as tools.

1121
00:55:32,199 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 1: So as you think about this whole narrative, all these

1122
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,039
layers of secrecy, technology and alleged alien contact, we want

1123
00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:40,960
to leave you with this challenge, what else might be hidden? Right?

1124
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,039
Out in the open, just waiting for someone to connect

1125
00:55:43,039 --> 00:55:46,360
the right dots, What stories, what narratives do you maybe

1126
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,599
accept as fact without really digging deeper?

1127
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,159
Speaker 2: And if, just if even a small part of accounts

1128
00:55:52,159 --> 00:55:55,239
like these are true, how does that fundamentally change everything?

1129
00:55:55,519 --> 00:55:59,000
Our understanding of human progress, of national security are placed

1130
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:00,800
in this huge Mysterei universe.

1131
00:56:01,159 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 1: The search for truth, no matter how strange or unsettling

1132
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,440
it seems, is always a worthwhile deep dive. So keep

1133
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,480
asking questions, keep looking past the surface level, and keep

1134
00:56:09,519 --> 00:56:13,480
exploring the fascinating, sometimes scary possibilities that our world and

1135
00:56:13,559 --> 00:56:15,480
maybe the universe beyond holds,