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Speaker 1: Judejennita Poulatana bottom of the hour, Trump War and the Constitution.
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, Welcome back to the fifty five
Speaker 1: Carssey Morning. You're running for the Cincinnian Inquirer, mostly on sports,
Speaker 1: but combining his two favorite topics now, Jason Williams, We're
Speaker 1: gonna be talking politics and sports, specifically the Bengals lease
Speaker 1: agreement and where we sit with that because the deadline's
Speaker 1: fast approaching. Jason Williams, saw is a pleasure to talk
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the morning show.
Speaker 2: Brian. Always enjoy joining you and love the KARC listeners
Speaker 2: and every time Joe message to me, hey, can you
Speaker 2: come on. I'm I'm there man.
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad you're there, and I'm glad you're
Speaker 1: following this because this is this is crazy. You know,
Speaker 1: most of my listeners, probably as do most people that
Speaker 1: understand the Cincinnati lease agreement, recorded as one of the worst,
Speaker 1: if not the worst in the entire world of football,
Speaker 1: professional football, and so the lease is set to expire.
Speaker 1: And my understanding is if they don't work out terms
Speaker 1: for an ongoing lease agreement, regardless of how long the
Speaker 1: terms is, and I guess that's one of the things
Speaker 1: they have to discuss. How long will the terms be
Speaker 1: for the new lease agreement. The Bengals can just extend
Speaker 1: the terms of the current agreement in two year increments.
Speaker 1: Have I got that part right anyway?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, they could extend it in two year increments
Speaker 2: up to ten years, so five there's a lot of
Speaker 2: numbers going there, but five two year extensions. So yeah,
Speaker 2: so this current lease could go up to ten more years.
Speaker 2: I don't think that there's I'm not getting any sensors,
Speaker 2: any any any indication, and that's what's on the table.
Speaker 2: And I do potentially a two year extension, the first
Speaker 2: of what could be five two year extensions could be
Speaker 2: on the table, but I don't know. Some of the
Speaker 2: things that are, you know, kind of coming out of
Speaker 2: the county and some of the public records that the
Speaker 2: Inquirer obtained, I don't seem to indicate that, you know,
Speaker 2: certainly there is an effort on both sides to get
Speaker 2: something done beyond just extending this current lease.
Speaker 1: Well, theoretically, I guess right now they haven't come up
Speaker 1: with an agreement on a new lease. Of course, the
Speaker 1: county officials hopefully are trying to argue for better terms
Speaker 1: of conditions than we've gotten under the current lease. I'm
Speaker 1: sure the Bengals are scrapping and fighting for a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff that they want. So that's where the negotiations
Speaker 1: are going on. If if they're not done by the deadline,
Speaker 1: which is June thirtieth for a new lease, and the
Speaker 1: Bengals extra is their right to extend the current one,
Speaker 1: is it still a possibility they could continue working on
Speaker 1: a new agreement during that two year period and sort
Speaker 1: of put that in place while that extension is on.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they can, they can. They can continue to
Speaker 2: do that at any time. This is as far as
Speaker 2: I understand it. I'm just talking to people that you know,
Speaker 2: they can at any point beyond really at anytime now,
Speaker 2: Like you you know, it's really not much different than
Speaker 2: where you would be at now, is that you could
Speaker 2: then be working on an extension beyond that extension. So
Speaker 2: you know, and you mentioned the top top there. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, sticking point, it's just something that's kind of
Speaker 2: gotten buried a little bit and in the news or
Speaker 2: just even in the discussion about about the stadium lease.
Speaker 2: Is you know, so many people, we all want to
Speaker 2: know the money, the money, the money, how much money?
Speaker 2: Well almost equally as because it is you know, the
Speaker 2: money's involved. Is the amount of years and so is
Speaker 2: it ten years, is it fifteen years, is it twenty years?
Speaker 2: Is it even more? And you know, and then how
Speaker 2: much money in that ten year period are you going
Speaker 2: to willing to give? Like if that makes sense in
Speaker 2: that like you're not going to pay eight So there's
Speaker 2: eight hundred and thirty million dollars worth of whatever upgrades
Speaker 2: and bells and whistles that they say or I hate
Speaker 2: the thing needed to be done to that stadium. But
Speaker 2: you know, are you if you're not going to spend
Speaker 2: eight hundred and thirty million if they're only going to
Speaker 2: do a ten year extension, but you might if they're
Speaker 2: going to do it twenty And so that's where the
Speaker 2: years and the money all come together there. And so
Speaker 2: if people don't talk a lot about the years, but
Speaker 2: the years are very important.
Speaker 1: Here excellent point well, and I saw one of the
Speaker 1: reports from the inquiry the parties will in good faith
Speaker 1: commenced negotiations as early as twenty thirty five. That's ten
Speaker 1: years about the need for a new NFL stadium. And
Speaker 1: I must choked when I read those words out loud.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, Oh my god, we're going to go through
Speaker 1: this again another ten years. We're going to knock down
Speaker 1: pay Corps and build a brand new it'll be what
Speaker 1: ten billion dollar facility at that point. I mean, I
Speaker 1: scratched my head over that concept, Jason, I really do.
Speaker 1: I just I struggle with public dollars paying for sports
Speaker 1: stadiums in the first instance, but the idea of that
Speaker 1: place would be actually considered obsolete in ten years. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with it right now.
Speaker 2: Amen, everything you just said, Brother Brian, I am one
Speaker 2: hundred percent with you on this, and you know, I
Speaker 2: got to be honest with you. I'm a little surprised
Speaker 2: that there hasn't been more of a push or more
Speaker 2: talk from the Bengals side anyway of a new stadium
Speaker 2: this time around, because you have seen that in Nashville
Speaker 2: with the Tennessee Titans. Yeah, there's a great example there
Speaker 2: of I mean, that's a stadium that I think it
Speaker 2: opened to just a year ahead of Paycorp stadiums is
Speaker 2: sort of out of that same kind generation of stadiums,
Speaker 2: and they're building a new stadium there in Nashville two
Speaker 2: billion dollars, I believe, And so I'm a little surprised that,
Speaker 2: especially with an eight hundred and thirty million dollars price tag,
Speaker 2: that there wasn't more of a push from the Bengals,
Speaker 2: even from I don't know Bengals supporters or that you know,
Speaker 2: chatter anyway about oh, you know, why don't they just
Speaker 2: build a new stadium? And frankly, if that would have
Speaker 2: been the case, and would have been highly critical of
Speaker 2: it and highly critical of the state hundred thirty million,
Speaker 2: which is what over double what the original cost of
Speaker 2: the stadium cost to build. So yeah, yeah, that doesn't
Speaker 2: surprise me that in ten years there would be talk
Speaker 2: of wanting to build a new stadium. And so then
Speaker 2: there you if you factor that in Brian, that also
Speaker 2: is like, you know, are you're gonna pump one hundred
Speaker 2: and eight hundred and thirty million dollars into this stadium
Speaker 2: for the next ten years only to turn around in
Speaker 2: ten years and be chattering or talking about looking at
Speaker 2: building a new stadium. I find that hard to believe. Yes,
Speaker 2: I find it more as an either or kind of thing.
Speaker 2: And it's the the you know, you know, put band
Speaker 2: aids on things and fix some of the you know,
Speaker 2: the leaky faucets and all that over the next ten years,
Speaker 2: and then you look at a new stadium. But I
Speaker 2: cannot see spend an eight hundred thirty million dollars to
Speaker 2: do whatever to this stadium and then turn around in
Speaker 2: ten years and say, oh, well, let's build a new stadium.
Speaker 2: That's just that's just flat out It's already physically irresponsible
Speaker 2: as it is, and that's just flat out ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Well, unless you can declare something functionally obsolete, there's no
Speaker 1: argument in favor of a new stadium. And I don't
Speaker 1: think anybody can call Payhorse Stadium functionally obsolete. You know,
Speaker 1: if it's if they maintained it in its current status,
Speaker 1: fix the pipes, you know, fix the concrete, whatever needs
Speaker 1: to be maintained, it'll still operate as a sports stadium.
Speaker 1: You can play football in ten years from now, twenty
Speaker 1: years from now. So anyhow, we're not, we're not in disagreement,
Speaker 1: and we're at least in a court on that concept.
Speaker 1: And for a while they were talking about, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure this lease agreement has to contemplate whether any money
Speaker 1: is going to come from the Ohio state taxpayers. It
Speaker 1: looked like appeers as though the Cleveland Browns got six
Speaker 1: hundred million. There was some widely circulated comments about maybe
Speaker 1: we would get three hundred and fifty million, or at
Speaker 1: least they asked for three hundred and three hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty million from the state. Is there any updates on that,
Speaker 1: whether that even remains a possibility. I think since the
Speaker 1: budget's been done at least I thought it was done
Speaker 1: in Columbus, that it's it's not under the ram of
Speaker 1: consideration this year, not this year.
Speaker 2: I certainly think the state will give the Bengals money,
Speaker 2: and that that's the debate now is what pot will
Speaker 2: that come from or potentially come from. I know Senator
Speaker 2: Bill Blessing is, you know, push for there to be
Speaker 2: a legislation that Hamilton County could do a cigarette tax.
Speaker 2: I've got my opinions on that. I think even though
Speaker 2: that's I guess could be considered a user fee. If
Speaker 2: you look in Cleveland, then I would encourage listeners to
Speaker 2: do that. Do a little research on what they call
Speaker 2: the sim tax in Cleveland. That's on alcohol and tobacco
Speaker 2: in Cuyahoga County, and that helps pay for the Guardians,
Speaker 2: the Browns, and the Cavs stadiums and arena. And at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, that all just generates thirteen
Speaker 2: million dollars a year. And I say, just that's of
Speaker 2: course a lot of money. But if you think about here,
Speaker 2: this will just be I believe the say a cigarette tax,
Speaker 2: and they don't have another state up there where people
Speaker 2: can go. There's a bigger population, and so you're looking
Speaker 2: at you would just put this tax in and it's
Speaker 2: not going to really move the needle, and so you
Speaker 2: get another tax. I don't care who that tax is on.
Speaker 2: I'm of the mind that there should be no more,
Speaker 2: no app asolutely, no more, no matter where it comes from.
Speaker 2: Hamilton County tax levee on Hamilton County tax payers. Well,
Speaker 2: I'm not the state once good.
Speaker 1: No, I just gonna say, you know, sin is in
Speaker 1: the eye of the beholder. And I don't know why
Speaker 1: we always you know, we we heap the burden of
Speaker 1: paying for a lot of things on certain products. It's like,
Speaker 1: as soon as a new product comes on the market,
Speaker 1: like vaping, that's immediately deemed something that's worthy of an
Speaker 1: additional tax just because it's new. But then again, gee,
Speaker 1: how about I walk over to northern Kentucky and buy
Speaker 1: my smokes there?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Duh?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean yeah, I think you know. I mean
Speaker 2: there's a lot. I just at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: I don't think it would be worth it, and I
Speaker 2: just it. Look, the bigger picture of that too, is
Speaker 2: that it'd be yet another viewed it's kind of another
Speaker 2: sort of bailout for the Bengals. Yeah, and at some point,
Speaker 2: like you got to get the burden off the Hamilton
Speaker 2: County tax payer, and I don't care. Yeah, I'm I'm
Speaker 2: not smoker, do you know, smokeless tobacco or anything like
Speaker 2: so I wouldn't be paying that tax, but I don't care.
Speaker 2: Like in terms of just getting the burden off of
Speaker 2: off of the county, off of Hamilton County that Hamilton
Speaker 2: County has carried. It's more, way, way, way more than
Speaker 2: it's fair share on this stadium with an ongoing sales tax,
Speaker 2: and there should absolutely be no more sales tax, any
Speaker 2: kind of tax put on the citizens, the voters, the
Speaker 2: tax payers of Hamilton County. And now if they want,
Speaker 2: if they want, they're exploring, you know, taxing sports betting
Speaker 2: across the state and then using some of that to
Speaker 2: help with the arenas and stadiums and cities across the Ohio.
Speaker 2: You know that that's one Like if that's the state
Speaker 2: wide tax on on sports gaming that goes to things
Speaker 2: that are across the state. I'm I'm I'm a lot
Speaker 2: with you, Brian, Like I'm of the mind, like I
Speaker 2: don't I think we already spend way too much money
Speaker 2: tax money on stadiums, arenas. It's just way out of
Speaker 2: whack and it's way out of proportion. But if that's
Speaker 2: something that is going to continue to happen, you've got
Speaker 2: to look at revenue streams like that, and they're looking
Speaker 2: at what the unclaimed property or unclaimed money pot of
Speaker 2: money is a potential like okay, but then again, you
Speaker 2: know there's all these arguments, like you know, I mean
Speaker 2: we could go down the yeah, the basic the you know,
Speaker 2: the basic route of I mean, how many how many
Speaker 2: roads and highways and bridges do we drive on. There's potholes,
Speaker 2: and there's bridges that are as you mentioned, functionally obsolete.
Speaker 2: Speaking of I mean how many bridges in the state
Speaker 2: in this area alone or functionally obsoletes? Yeah. And if
Speaker 2: you're looking at that pot of money of unclaimed money
Speaker 2: in the state, which is what three billion dollars or something, well,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't you Why wouldn't you look at doing it
Speaker 2: on like things that you know, actually really helped the
Speaker 2: general citizen ry.
Speaker 1: Or property tax relief. I don't know if you got
Speaker 1: the word, Jason, property tax have gone through the roof.
Speaker 1: I mean there's always there's a lot of money, and
Speaker 1: there's a million people who want to get their hands
Speaker 1: in the cookie jar. And this takes us always back
Speaker 1: to this is a privately owned sports franchise. That is
Speaker 1: last time I checked, they are profitable, aren't they? Jason?
Speaker 1: Does the Bengals make money for the Bengal family? I
Speaker 1: mean the Brown family.
Speaker 2: Hey, look, Brian, when the when this sales tax was
Speaker 2: passed in ninety six, the mid nineties, the Bengals were
Speaker 2: valued by four just short of two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2: They're now valued at four billion dollars. Okay, a matter
Speaker 2: of thirty years, how much the valuation of that franchise
Speaker 2: has gone up, Well, that's a significant, significant jump. And
Speaker 2: then certainly a big, a big, a significant chunk of
Speaker 2: that money. And what the money that the franchise has
Speaker 2: made has been off of the stadium deal. And so
Speaker 2: don't don't, No one should be fooled by the fact. Yes,
Speaker 2: the NFL is the Golden Goose, it's it's crazy popular.
Speaker 2: It is a money printing machine, it's going to continue
Speaker 2: to be a money printing machine. The TV revenue is
Speaker 2: just insane. So, yes, there's a lot of money that's
Speaker 2: come from the NFL on football side of this, but
Speaker 2: there's no doubt about that a chunk of that money
Speaker 2: has come also from the good taxpayers of Hamilton County.
Speaker 1: Well, in this agreement that we're currently operating on. Is
Speaker 1: the reason that that property or that that sales tax
Speaker 1: is still in place. We were promised sales tax relief
Speaker 1: a long time ago. Is part of the reason that
Speaker 1: we voted for it, and yet it remains. And the
Speaker 1: reason it remains is because all the obligations we as
Speaker 1: the Hamilton County taxpayers, have under the terms of conditions
Speaker 1: of the current lease agreement, which sucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I mean we were promised a property tax
Speaker 2: rollback every single year of this of this deal, and
Speaker 2: it's I don't know how many. I don't have it
Speaker 2: in front of me, But what was the last time
Speaker 2: when a lease cherisse first came into office? So I
Speaker 2: think the last was at twenty twenty two? Maybe we
Speaker 2: got one and I don't think we've had one twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one, but I don't think we've had one since, right,
Speaker 2: And I haven't heard any buzz whether that's going to
Speaker 2: happen again. I could be wrong on that, and it's
Speaker 2: it's happened. I knew it got a lot of news
Speaker 2: back when Alisha Resee made a big deal out of
Speaker 2: it because it hadn't happened for a long time, and
Speaker 2: that was when all the COVID money was coming in
Speaker 2: and the county was kind of flushed with money, and
Speaker 2: there was talk of from the administration side that no,
Speaker 2: we're not going to give a prep property tax rollback
Speaker 2: on this, and Alisha Resee really led the way on
Speaker 2: getting on getting that property tax rollback. And I haven't
Speaker 2: heard anything about it since, so it may have happened,
Speaker 2: it just hasn't gotten the headlines or anything. But you
Speaker 2: that's something that should be happening. That was a promise.
Speaker 2: Now it wasn't a it wasn't an iron clad promise,
Speaker 2: legal legal promise, but yeah, that was a promise made
Speaker 2: by the politicians at the time, and you know, I
Speaker 2: think it should be followed through on amen very at
Speaker 2: the at the very least.
Speaker 1: Well tea leaf reading. I'm going with the Bengals exercise
Speaker 1: their extension because the terms of conditions they have now
Speaker 1: are wonderful. They're not wanting to put in any more
Speaker 1: than one hundred and twenty million that they offered up front,
Speaker 1: and they won a lot of improvements to the ten
Speaker 1: of one hundred and eighty three million, one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty million, which I suppose under the current conditions they're
Speaker 1: entitled to, which seems crazy. Oh, Jas, I know you're
Speaker 1: going to follow this close to Jason Williams. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for spending time with my listeners mean today
Speaker 1: on this topic. I'll look forward to having you back
Speaker 1: on the program again real soon, hopefully with some good news.
Speaker 2: Hey, Brian, you and I both love talking about this.
Speaker 2: I'm always happy to join you anytime and chat it up.
Speaker 2: And it's as we say in the media world, the
Speaker 2: stadium thing is the gift that keeps on giving.
Speaker 1: It is provides for good copies Cincinnati dot com. You'll
Speaker 1: find Jason what he you write. It's about take care
Speaker 1: of my friend. It's eight twenty two, fifty five cares
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