WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.159 --> 00:00:05.080 You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network. 2 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:10.679 Hello there, and welcome back. 3 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:13.519 What is this place as connected? Disconnected? 4 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:14.279 It's connected. 5 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:18.719 That's the number that has been disconnected. Hello there, and 6 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:23.519 welcome back to the Disconnected. Here with the one of 7 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:26.000 the more interesting individuals that I've been excited to. 8 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:26.879 Talk about for a while. 9 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:32.320 Here we've got the writer, editor and disability advocate Kristin Lopez. Kristin, 10 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:33.920 thanks for coming on the show today. 11 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:36.719 Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. 12 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:39.560 You've got a couple of books coming out in the 13 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:41.159 next couple of years that we're going to be talking 14 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:42.359 about in just a little bit. 15 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:46.200 But you've written a book before, and you know, when. 16 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:49.920 Somebody hears disability advocate and that's connected to film, I 17 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:53.399 wonder how many people even know what exactly that means. 18 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:55.520 So why don't you share what that means for people? 19 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:56.679 Uh? 20 00:00:56.759 --> 00:01:02.479 Yeah, I mean I talk about disability predominantly from the 21 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:05.519 film representation side, which I think a lot of people assume. 22 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:07.840 You know, disability advocates. 23 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:12.599 Are government based or you know, social social justice type 24 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:15.959 of stuff that they're all crusading for, you know, more 25 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:19.640 curb cuts and you know legislation, which is important. You know, 26 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:22.359 those people, I applaud them. I love that they do 27 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:23.599 that the work that they do. 28 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:24.560 I knew I was never. 29 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:27.319 Going to be that, But at the same time as 30 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:30.840 one of the few, if not only, physically disabled critics 31 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.159 that I knew, but that I still intact. You know, 32 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.000 I still don't see any wheelchair users at any of 33 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:39.000 the screenings that I go to that are at the 34 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.120 same level writing wise as me, or you know that 35 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:43.719 work in the trades. So you know, I knew I 36 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:46.599 was kind of in a privileged position to be like, Okay, 37 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:50.000 well then I can talk about entertainment from a disability 38 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.799 perspective and kind of ask questions about why things are 39 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:53.480 the way they are. 40 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:55.560 And I figure that. 41 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.799 Would just be some sort of fun little niche that 42 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:00.640 maybe I could make money. Like people would want to 43 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:02.519 be like, oh this, this girl is going to write 44 00:02:02.519 --> 00:02:03.560 an article that's going to get a. 45 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:06.519 Thousand clicks, and you know, we want to work with her. 46 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:10.360 But I started noticing that people that were disabled and 47 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:13.120 non disabled people as while we're reading it and we're 48 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.919 a either hearton that somebody understood you know, their issues 49 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:20.400 with film or b did not know that you know, 50 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:22.039 certain depictions. 51 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.000 Were problematic, and we're happy about that because. 52 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:28.960 Ableism is still a relatively newism, right, you know, we 53 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:32.039 we don't really know when we're doing it, and we 54 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:35.280 certainly don't look back at the history of film in 55 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:40.000 a way that emphasizes, you know, if you look at 56 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.560 film through the lens of like racism, you understand that 57 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:45.759 film is part of the culture of a you know, oppression. 58 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:49.199 So the history of film is one of you know, 59 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:52.439 racism and trying to move away from that. And same 60 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:55.000 with with you know, disability. A lot of it is 61 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:59.560 emphasizing disability is a negative and we're having to unlearn 62 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:02.840 that at this point and it's still a relatively new thing. 63 00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:05.159 So for me, you know, I'm. 64 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:08.280 I'm I always tell people I'm not shitting on your 65 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:10.719 love of a certain movie. You know, I love many 66 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:14.400 a problematic disabled film. It's about telling you that you 67 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.719 should look closer though, at why things are the way 68 00:03:17.719 --> 00:03:22.240 they are. Why is the main character who's disabled a 69 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:26.919 white guy. Why are most disabled characters disabled late in life? 70 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.560 You know, why are disabled characters that are you know, 71 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:35.680 physically disabled, especially women, also tied into how sexually attractive 72 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:36.080 they are? 73 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:38.560 Or aren't all of these things are deliberate. 74 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:43.719 Choices that come from just a history of ableism. 75 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:46.840 Well, and many of the things that you've talked about 76 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:50.680 in this sector online previously and then your work are 77 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:54.120 related to things of that last portion. There is things 78 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:58.360 like the pretty Disabled and the films that are out 79 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:04.479 there that we are capturing, you know, just the most 80 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:07.159 surface level of disabilities. I guess it's the best way 81 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:09.400 to say this, Like, we can talk about people that 82 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:11.360 are deaf because that's something that we can relate to, 83 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:15.800 but in a world of recognizing the full spectrum of 84 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:19.000 all of this, it is really hard to even discuss 85 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.439 because in a lot of ways, and pardon the pun 86 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:23.399 with what you just said, but this is just not 87 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:26.000 really a sexy topic either. This isn't something that gets 88 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.160 a lot of clicks. This isn't something that sells a 89 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:31.079 ton of tickets to things. People aren't dying to go 90 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.000 to the films to see this. But the reality is 91 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:36.480 it's important for those that would be represented on screen. 92 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:38.560 Well, I think the. 93 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.439 Fact that it's not a sexy topic is the again 94 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:45.040 that history of saying it's not a sexy topic, you know, 95 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:49.879 I mean, unfortunately There's been movies that have dealt with 96 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:54.360 disability and sexuality and people don't go see those movies. Why, 97 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:56.519 I say, often it has more to do with the 98 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:59.680 audience than the film per se, because I think this, 99 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.439 you know, I think abled audiences, because that's remember what 100 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:03.000 I think. 101 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:04.319 Movie most movies are made for. 102 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:09.040 Most movies about disability are trying to get disabled audiences, 103 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.879 not not abled people. So I think that, you know, 104 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:16.279 a lot of times people just kind of go don't 105 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:18.720 go see those movies because they're uncomfortable with it. 106 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:19.759 You know. 107 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.360 And I mean there have been movies that have tried. 108 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:26.959 To change the you know, the game Coda Won an Oscar, 109 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:28.959 you know, but that movie did not make a lot 110 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:31.319 of money, you know, when it did go to the theater. 111 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:33.160 So what is the issue? 112 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.839 You know, is it that people just automatically assume that 113 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:41.279 a disabled movie is some sort of oscar baby serious 114 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:44.480 thing that's the equivalent of taking your medicine, you know, 115 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:49.439 And I think that we really need to re revise. 116 00:05:49.079 --> 00:05:49.800 What that is. 117 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:51.160 You know. 118 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:53.800 At the same time, I think that I always couch 119 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:58.680 disabled narratives in the sense of are they about ambulatory 120 00:05:58.720 --> 00:05:59.759 disabled people are not? 121 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:01.480 Because I think that. 122 00:06:01.639 --> 00:06:01.800 You know. 123 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.720 What's interesting is is I get I get asked a lot, 124 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.680 you know about if I covered if I why don't I. 125 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:09.240 Talk about invisible disabilities? 126 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:13.439 And I always say, a, you know, I can only 127 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:16.680 research from my experience, from my perspective and apply it. 128 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.439 I don't have autism as far as I know, Uh, 129 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:24.000 you know, I don't have I have ADHD, but I 130 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:26.800 personally don't consider that a disability for myself. So I 131 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.680 don't really know how to couch it in those terms 132 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.920 just because I was not I'm not built with that knowledge. 133 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:36.839 And at the same time, I think my point still stands, 134 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:40.160 which is that invisible disabilities are continue to be the 135 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:44.240 way around dealing with disability and film. You know again, 136 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:48.959 and a director, a screenwriter can write a physically able 137 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:52.519 hot girl who maybe has you know, some sort of 138 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:56.959 invisible disability, it doesn't solve the problem because again it's 139 00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:59.920 still just another way to x out having to make 140 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.399 make the industry accessible for all. 141 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:06.959 Well, and that leads into why there needs to be 142 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:09.519 a book about this, which you have coming out. I mean, 143 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:11.879 the moment that you let me knew that this existed, 144 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:13.720 I had to pre order this because this has been 145 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:17.680 something I've been you know, trying to talk about for 146 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:21.079 a while, trying to get people to understand is an 147 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:25.600 important topic, try to have people understand what representation can be. 148 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:27.680 So tell us about your book. 149 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:32.240 So you know, Popcorn Disabilities is uh, my attempt to 150 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:35.879 kind of do a look at disability and film in 151 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:38.160 a way that's not academic. It's being put out by 152 00:07:38.199 --> 00:07:40.240 an academic press, but I really wanted it to be 153 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:45.800 funny and kind of utilizing things that I've learned from 154 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:48.600 watching disabled films. You know, how disabled films made me 155 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:52.560 feel as a person and how I'm assuming they make 156 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:55.600 a lot of other people feel because of the bad representation. 157 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:59.319 So you know, it was an interesting journey historically from 158 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:03.319 the silent ear to today looking at disabled films and 159 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:06.439 the tropes and the stereotypes they use, but more importantly, 160 00:08:06.439 --> 00:08:10.240 how they make a generation of disabled people feel about 161 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:11.160 being disabled. 162 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:16.199 Right, there's so many people obviously that have probably never 163 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:19.959 even considered this while watching many of these films. With 164 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:23.839 that in mind, and obviously we could get you to 165 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:25.759 speak on this for hours and hours, but with that 166 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:29.800 in mind, can you explain what is good representation and 167 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:31.680 bad representation of disabilities? 168 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:36.720 I mean, the most obvious is bad representation because that's 169 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:40.600 there's more of that that exists, and mostly it's emphasizing 170 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:45.039 the disability. Becoming disabled is something to fear, that being 171 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:48.279 becoming disabled is a death sentence, and or that you're 172 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.360 lacking in something, and that a disabled person is. 173 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:54.840 Always mourning what they have lost, you know, and. 174 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:59.200 Usually bad representation is, you know, showing that being disabled 175 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:03.440 you're something to pity. You're poor, you're uneducated, your family 176 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:07.279 hates you, you hate yourself, all of these, all of 177 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:10.720 these elements that emphasize you know, at the end of 178 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:13.759 the movie, you know, it's all about the able person, 179 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.879 so you know how the able person feels having known you. 180 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:19.759 Your life doesn't need to get better, but it's about 181 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:22.559 how the other person that really spends time with you, 182 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:26.080 the danes to be your friend or partner or whatever. 183 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.440 How their life is better. You know. 184 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.960 Good representation, I think for me, you know, in terms 185 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.399 of what I look at right now, is if it 186 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.639 gets the little things right. You know, if it's if 187 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:41.360 it's showing me a person in a wheelchair that is 188 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:44.240 a custom chair and not a hospital chair. If I 189 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:48.120 can tell that that person in that wheelchair, has actually 190 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:50.799 used a wheelchair, or has done some sort of research. 191 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:54.679 If the script doesn't emphasize. 192 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:57.480 The disability is something to be sad about, it just exists, 193 00:09:58.080 --> 00:09:59.480 you know, it's just something. 194 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:00.440 To be happy about. 195 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:04.600 If a movie is about a disabled woman, particularly disabled 196 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:06.879 woman of color, I will give it at least a 197 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:11.200 kudo for not being a typical, you know, white male 198 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.559 disabled story. So, you know, good representation I think right 199 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.639 now is still coming in bits and pieces as opposed 200 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:20.559 to an overarching thing. 201 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:21.759 Yeah. 202 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:26.159 I mean there's a kind of baseline Bechdel test sort 203 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:28.279 of feeling that you can get here. And it seems 204 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.159 like if if somebody with a disability is in a 205 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:36.519 scene and that's the only focus of every scene, that's 206 00:10:36.600 --> 00:10:38.320 pretty damn telling in and of itself. 207 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:39.879 Exactly. 208 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:44.559 Yeah, And I mean there's there's so many overt elements 209 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:49.720 I think that people you know, don't notice about disability representation. 210 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:51.919 I mean, one of them is how often a. 211 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:55.960 Disabled movie prioritizes an abled person, you know, whether that's 212 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.200 a caregiver or a partner. You know, the movie's not 213 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:02.159 really the disabled person's story, it's the partner story. 214 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:06.960 You know. Yeah, rain Man is a great example. 215 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:10.279 You know, Dustin Hoffman is on the poster, yes, and 216 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:14.159 he is the titled character. And yet I think most 217 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:16.799 people if you ask them, who is the protagonist, who 218 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:17.320 is the lead? 219 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:21.000 Who is the person that grows and changes storm cruise? 220 00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:24.279 Uh, you know, and that that happens a lot because 221 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:29.240 you know, screenwriters and I think entertainment executives the whole, 222 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:32.440 the whole group assume that disabled people are this magical 223 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:33.879 entity that you're. 224 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:36.159 Clearly not going to understand as an audience member. 225 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:38.840 So we need to have what I call an able 226 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:41.759 body buffer, which is an able person that can be 227 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.399 the shirpa you know, that can help you understand the 228 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:49.200 mythical disabled person. They're really telling the audience that we 229 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:52.399 think you're stupid, you know. And I think that's always 230 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:55.840 really funny to me that when people realize, like, oh, 231 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:58.240 you know, wow, that's that's really true. 232 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:03.200 I guess we all need an ambassador to disabled land, 233 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:04.720 that's for sure, exactly. 234 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.440 Yeah. And I mean, you know, I think that I'm 235 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:07.840 one of the. 236 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:12.080 Few people that you know, I tell people, we compartmentalize, 237 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:14.120 you know, if I was looking for a movie that 238 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:18.159 was perfectly rendered from a disabled standpoint, I would not 239 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:21.960 like anything because you know, it just doesn't exist. And 240 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:25.679 you know, I love me some bad representation that maybe 241 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:26.600 has some merit. 242 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:28.519 I love Forrest Gump. 243 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:32.679 You know, I think that movie is really interesting, specifically 244 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:37.600 for the Gary Sineze character. And yet you know, it's 245 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:40.360 it's got a lot of issues. So I think that 246 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:44.200 we all kind of have to see the good where 247 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:44.919 we can. 248 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:45.519 When we can. 249 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:50.960 I would agree there with that. There there are lots 250 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:54.679 of obvious bad examples of this. What are some of 251 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:58.320 the more, uh, well, we'll say recent films that people 252 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:02.559 should look to as good indicators of disability or representation 253 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:03.080 in film. 254 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.600 Oh, you know, it's it's tough. 255 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:10.960 I mean, I always say the horror genre is one 256 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:15.519 of the more accommodating disabled, you know genres, if only 257 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:19.600 because there's more characters they're either overtly disabled or coded 258 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:24.200 as such. You know, I tell people I love Aaron 259 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:26.679 Schimberg's A Different Man, which came out last year. 260 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:27.600 I think that's one. 261 00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:33.840 Of the best looks at disabled representation, and yet disabled 262 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:38.360 people and diabled audiences don't necessarily, you know, think of that. 263 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:39.639 I know a lot of. 264 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:41.519 Disabled people that when I said how much I love 265 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:44.279 the movie. They had not seen it, but they had 266 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:48.639 seen that Sebastian Stan was playing a disabled character and 267 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:50.639 they said, oh, well, what do you mean, he's a 268 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:53.159 disabled character that gets hot. And I was like, I know, 269 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:54.879 you clearly have not seen the film. 270 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:56.200 I'm like, because it's. 271 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:01.120 Commenting very specifically on the belief that all disabled people 272 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:04.200 want to be hot Spatch and Stan, and that is 273 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:06.039 only scratching the surface, you know. 274 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:08.759 It's it's got so many different layers. 275 00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:12.000 To it in terms of, you know, the magic cure 276 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:15.240 and how often disabled people want that. It even goes 277 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:17.879 so far as to get a little meta and asks 278 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:20.720 the question of whether Aaron Schimberg himself has any right 279 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:25.639 to be telling a disabled story. It's just it's very smart. 280 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.080 It's very smart, and I love it. I love it 281 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:29.039 so very much. 282 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:31.519 You know, I think Coda is very sweet. 283 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.799 I think it's it's great to see a disabled family. 284 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:38.960 It's not wealthy, or at least is not financially solvent, 285 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:40.759 which tends to be. 286 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:42.399 Something that you see a lot of. 287 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.960 And I always point to the Chucky films, specifically Don 288 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:50.159 Mancini's Latter Two Curse and Cult of Chucky, which have 289 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:53.879 a disabled heroin. Yes, Fiona Dorf is not disabled, but 290 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:57.679 I've been fortunate to interview Don Mancini about it and 291 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:00.320 to hear him talk about like trying to getting the 292 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.600 weeds of like discovering the right custom chair, you know, 293 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.440 And you know I gave him. I think I gave 294 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.679 him guph when I interviewed him, I'm like, well, you know, 295 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:10.799 the movie's great. 296 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:11.519 I love it. 297 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:15.960 I don't have a lot of criticisms all. But you know, Fiona, 298 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:19.000 when she's wheeling that chair, she's got chicken arms. You know, 299 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:22.519 she's got these flapping wings. I'm all a disabled person, 300 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:26.080 especially one that's got like hardwood floor you propel off 301 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:29.039 of stuff. You know, you're trying to work smarter, not hurder. 302 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:32.519 And he was like, yeah, that's fair, that's fair. 303 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:33.440 But I mean, the. 304 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:36.799 Movie I think is really smart in how it has 305 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.559 a disabled heroin disabled from birth. 306 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:43.200 You can argue whether that is true or not. 307 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:45.159 Based on if you've seen the movie at the plot point. 308 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:48.000 I don'tant to spoil it, but she's disabled from birth. 309 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:52.240 She's a sexual character. Everybody else around her is a 310 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:55.360 dick because they make the presumption that she's not capable, 311 00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:59.440 and yet she clearly is, and she uses her disability 312 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.440 in a way that's always an advantage. So I think 313 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:04.639 those are the ones that I always say I really love. 314 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:06.960 If you go even further back to something like the 315 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.919 silent era, there's a nineteen twenties film from Lawn Chaney 316 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:11.720 Senior called The. 317 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:16.279 Penalty, which is hilariously bonkers. It's hilarious. 318 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.600 So the plot the beginning of the movie in a nutshell, 319 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.919 is that a doctor is operating on a child who 320 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.399 is gonna grow up to be Lawn Chaney senior. The 321 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:29.720 kids got a like cold and a bump on the head, 322 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:34.559 and the doctor is like, gott to chop his legs off, like. 323 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:37.320 He got you, it's what we got do. 324 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.960 And he does, and he makes this character a double amputee. 325 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:45.039 And just from a technical standpoint, I don't know how 326 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:46.720 they did it in this. 327 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.240 Movie hiding Lawn Cheney's legs. I know they did they. 328 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:51.879 You know, they've talked about how he did like this 329 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:54.919 weird contraption where he strapped his legs behind him. 330 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:57.799 I don't know how they did it. I have no clue. 331 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.799 It looks like he does not have any legs below 332 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:04.519 the knee, But to watch and just the production design, 333 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:09.119 the way that ramps are kind of like intricately added 334 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:12.119 into the set design. He's like trying to like see 335 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.279 through out a door window, and he's got little like 336 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:17.440 pegs that he puts in these holes and like climbs 337 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:18.079 the wall. 338 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:18.759 Like he's Spider Man. 339 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.440 But the story is also like you are you understand 340 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.480 this guy becoming a criminal mastermind and wanting to take 341 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:33.240 vengeance on the doctor, because dude, that is some serious malpractice. 342 00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:36.440 Is it good representation? I'm not really sure, but is 343 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.880 it entertaining? Is how a movie that is really cool 344 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:40.359 to watch? You are damn right? 345 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:42.160 It is you in. 346 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.240 I mean, this is a perfect segue because of what 347 00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:48.039 you just brought up. You have frequently spoken about the 348 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:53.480 landmark film Freaks over the years, because it is widely 349 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:58.599 discussed as depending on who you're speaking with, either incredibly 350 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:02.319 controversial for being a exploitive for certain people, and then 351 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:05.000 on the far other end of the spectrum, indibly incredibly 352 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.079 accepting for allowing these people to be on the screen 353 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.200 at the time. What are other than freaks? And perhaps 354 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:13.319 you can start with freaks? What are some of the 355 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:17.359 major like touch points in film history of disability representation. 356 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:20.559 You know, Franks is one of those. 357 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:25.240 It's one of the few movies that even now, you know, 358 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:27.960 in twenty twenty five, it has it still holds the 359 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:32.160 record for the most abled cast members you know, on 360 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:33.640 screen at any point in time. 361 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:35.119 We've not broken that yet. 362 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.720 It's one of those films that is just amazing to 363 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.759 see how many physically disabled people are present that have 364 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.720 really no shame in it, that just exist. 365 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:48.839 Todd Browning tried really hard to. 366 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:53.279 Humanize these characters and humanize the actors as well. 367 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:54.440 You know, to hear some of. 368 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:57.880 The behind the scenes stories about how people treated these 369 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:01.759 performers is just you're you hate f Scott Fitzgerald by 370 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.480 the end of it because you're just like, come on, 371 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:09.839 it's just it's heartbreaking how it's a film that didn't 372 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:12.839 single handedly destroy Todd Browning's career, but it certainly didn't help. 373 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:17.039 And it's just it's it's a fantastic movie. 374 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:20.039 It's it's really great. 375 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:23.200 Yeah, it's one you know, Todd Browning and actually Dom 376 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.079 Mancini and a lot of these others that are really 377 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.960 great about representation, uh, for for whatever spectrum, I mean, 378 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:33.200 one of the big ones you talked about. Mancini is 379 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:38.839 great on representing disability, but then also queer representation. It's 380 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.279 one of those one of those franchises that has been 381 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.559 incredible with it. So obviously we got freaks. You already 382 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.559 mentioned rain Man. What are some other of the like 383 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.440 the best examples in history? 384 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:53.480 Oh, gosh, best examples. That's really tough. 385 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.039 I mean, you know, Martley Mattin's Children of a Lesser 386 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:01.000 God I think is worthy. You know, he still is 387 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:04.440 one of the few disabled women, the only disabled woman 388 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:06.480 as far as I know, deaf and disabled to win 389 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:11.599 an oscar, And it's one of those films that prioritizes 390 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.440 deaf people of all stripes. And even though Bill hurt 391 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:17.839 is the lead, you know, he's the one that opens 392 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:20.720 the movie, nobody gives a shit about him. You know, 393 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:23.400 you only care about Marlee Matlin. She is so good 394 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.119 in it, She's so magnetic, and she really is a 395 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.240 person that sends up this character. You know, challenges him 396 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:32.799 all the time for his own kind of ablest microaggressions 397 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:35.680 that he exhibits, and I mean offscreen he was a 398 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:39.200 horrible human being to her. So, you know, but I 399 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:44.039 think that one's one I really appreciate. Coming Home from 400 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:48.839 nineteen seventy six is probably my favorite, just because it's 401 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:53.400