Speaker 1: It's time for coffee and company, fueled by Thornton's on
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Speaker 2: So we've had this conversation before and I don't really
Speaker 2: remember the outcome of it. But so the portal closes
Speaker 2: on April twenty second for college basketball and I think
Speaker 2: and college football players. So with that, does that mean
Speaker 2: at midnight tonight it's done. I've always thought.
Speaker 3: That it meant that that day is the last day,
Speaker 3: and I think that's the case.
Speaker 2: But either way, as the show started, I thought, okay, well,
Speaker 2: most of the guys that we're going to hit the
Speaker 2: portal would have already done it, and it's probably, you know,
Speaker 2: over there won't be many names hit the portal by
Speaker 2: the time you know it officially ends. But I guess
Speaker 2: I was wrong. Brandon holy Hatfield, remember him, He's at
Speaker 2: the portal. I'm not sure what kind of a kind
Speaker 2: of school he's looking to get to, but he made
Speaker 2: some good money here. I'm sure he made money at
Speaker 2: inc State, And you know, to me, he was somebody
Speaker 2: that I believed would have have been not not beneficial
Speaker 2: to stick around like I think it made total sense
Speaker 2: for a complete, complete overhaul here and that's really what
Speaker 2: was needed to just kind of start fresh. But he
Speaker 2: was the one guy, if there's one, that I feel
Speaker 2: like in the in the second season with Kenny Payne,
Speaker 2: like you know, the team was a mess and his
Speaker 2: numbers probably mean his numbers meant very little because they
Speaker 2: came against blowout and blowout losses. But you could tell
Speaker 2: he had some skill to him, right he and I
Speaker 2: really thought that in C State he would be good
Speaker 2: for him. But man, talk about a bad I mean,
Speaker 2: he started his career at Tennessee as a freshman, played
Speaker 2: a little bit, then he transferred to Louisville where they
Speaker 2: won four games, and then his second season at Louislle
Speaker 2: they won eight games and they transferred NC State, and
Speaker 2: I this is probably an exaggeration, but in the moment,
Speaker 2: I truly felt like watching Louisville up forty or something
Speaker 2: at Raleigh against Keats, I thought that NC State team
Speaker 2: at times in that game was the closest thing I'd
Speaker 2: seen from a Kenny Payne coach Louisville team just because
Speaker 2: they were a mess in every way, but you could
Speaker 2: tell they didn't have elite talent. They certainly didn't have
Speaker 2: great talent, but like they should not have been nearly
Speaker 2: as bad as they were. So Huntley Hatfield Man, he
Speaker 2: went from one disaster to another and ended up. You
Speaker 2: know that coach has gone now and he's looking for
Speaker 2: a new home.
Speaker 3: So and this is what.
Speaker 2: Interests me, that I be honest with you, I'm kind
Speaker 2: of knee deep into to look it into it during
Speaker 2: the break to see what this whole thing is.
Speaker 3: But there are two players.
Speaker 2: From Clemson that have hit the portal, and you probably
Speaker 2: recognize these names. Jaden Zachary, who is a guard who
Speaker 2: started actually Boston College, transferred to Clemson that was there
Speaker 2: with Brad Brownwell for the last few years. And then
Speaker 2: the big fella, Ian Scheiflin, who does not at all
Speaker 2: look like a player, but pretty effective, pretty good player.
Speaker 2: Those two guys have hit the portal. And they are
Speaker 2: two guys that do not have eligibility and yet they've
Speaker 2: hit the portal, Like, how can you even do that?
Speaker 3: Like I feel like you should have.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what the process is to hit
Speaker 2: the portal, but like, shouldn't you have to put in
Speaker 2: like your your social or something like that, and it'll
Speaker 2: determine if you could enter the portal and if you
Speaker 2: don't have eligibility, then you can enter. I mean, I
Speaker 2: doubt the NSTAA has something that's sophisticated because they can't
Speaker 2: do much of anything the way it should be done.
Speaker 2: But this is from Pete Nacho's from mon three Sports,
Speaker 2: who again earned a lot of a lot of credit
Speaker 2: when it comes to his reporting when he was the
Speaker 2: one who actually had it right about Nico and Knoxville,
Speaker 2: where his dad's saying that this report is untrue and
Speaker 2: calling this reporter names. And yet this guy was absolutely
Speaker 2: right and went against the guys, the player's dad and
Speaker 2: ended up, you know, sticking to his guns and trusting
Speaker 2: his sources, and he was right.
Speaker 3: So this is what he reports.
Speaker 2: Was told by a source that Clemson is letting Shiflin
Speaker 2: and Jaden Zachary enter the portal despite the players not
Speaker 2: having any eligibility remaining in case a lawsuit allows players
Speaker 2: five years of eligibility. So this is where I mean,
Speaker 2: I feel like this is kind of sad. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't blame him, right, if you you know, if
Speaker 2: you've got a chance, you know, why not take a chance.
Speaker 2: Just what do you have to lose if it doesn't
Speaker 2: work out right, If you get an extra year, then
Speaker 2: then hell yeah, I mean you probably a few of
Speaker 2: these players you're thinking, yeah, my college career is over,
Speaker 2: but you know, why not at least enter the portal
Speaker 2: and let things play out. And who knows, maybe I
Speaker 2: wake up one day and I realize I can play again,
Speaker 2: Like there's no harm in that.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: There's just something that's become kind of odd about entering
Speaker 2: the portal with no eligibility and no real case to
Speaker 2: argue that you should get a waiver to get another year,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like one thing, if you
Speaker 2: are appaying for a medical red shirt or you're doing
Speaker 2: the JUCO thing. I don't think he has a I
Speaker 2: don't think he will or should win it. But the
Speaker 2: big fellow from Charleston that is out of eligibility, he's lost.
Speaker 2: His lawsuit claims that the NCABLEA should not tell him
Speaker 2: he's no longer eligible when he's got a million dollars
Speaker 2: on the table to go play somewhere because they're counting
Speaker 2: his eligibility when when he was at D two again.
Speaker 2: I don't understand how you would even win that, because
Speaker 2: the JUCO rule is different, because the ju Juco is
Speaker 2: not a part of the nstable at all, and they're
Speaker 2: taking years of eligibility from you that you did not
Speaker 2: use under in one of their member institutions. That makes sense.
Speaker 2: So D two, it's still in stuble A. I mean,
Speaker 2: it should still count. So there's really no harm, I suppose,
Speaker 2: And you know, just seeing what happens, right, it's like
Speaker 2: playing the lottery when you buy a ticket for a buck,
Speaker 2: Like you know, that's all you lost is a dollar.
Speaker 2: If you win, change your life, Like why not do it?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: But I don't know, it just seems kind of I mean, again,
Speaker 2: maybe as I talk through it here, it's not sad
Speaker 2: because again, I'm sure these guys, most of them are aware.
Speaker 2: I guess what would make it sad is if they
Speaker 2: truly don't know what to do with their life at all,
Speaker 2: and they're like just living in complete delusion and denial
Speaker 2: that their college career after six or seven years is
Speaker 2: finally over. That's where it would be sad. But I
Speaker 2: highly doubt that that's the situation for a lot of
Speaker 2: these guys. But Jeff Goodman reports there are six players
Speaker 2: in the portal from the ACC that are seeking another year,
Speaker 2: and there's no justification as to why they would get
Speaker 2: another year other than hoping that the NCAA just decides
Speaker 2: they're gonna give players five years of eligibility just to
Speaker 2: do it. I mean, that's isn't that kind of sad? Again,
Speaker 2: the naas never seen more beatable in court, right, Like,
Speaker 2: it seems like right now you can go do anything
Speaker 2: and you just hold you know, you dare him to
Speaker 2: kind of challenge you, and if they do, you hire
Speaker 2: a lawyer.
Speaker 3: They lose.
Speaker 2: That's been pretty routine when it comes to the NCAA's
Speaker 2: battles as of late. But these are guys like, for example,
Speaker 2: ft and Reed is a big man from wake Forest.
Speaker 2: He's played four seasons, one year at LSU one a
Speaker 2: Gonzaga to a wake Forest, played in one hundred and
Speaker 2: eighteen games. My man, your run is over, your eligibility
Speaker 2: is done. I mean it's time to go be a doctor. Yeah,
Speaker 2: refresh that LinkedIn bio brother, Like, come on now, I'm
Speaker 2: sure you got your degree. Although I did see something
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying this guy didn't have a degree,
Speaker 2: But this is one of the downsides of the portal.
Speaker 2: I mean, you can still you know, it's worth doing it.
Speaker 2: But when you bounce around from school to school, not
Speaker 2: everything's going to transfer to where you may be eligible.
Speaker 2: You know, that's a really low bar to be eligible play.
Speaker 3: But like you.
Speaker 2: Obtaining you know, your degree as far as keeping yourself
Speaker 2: on track, like if you're changing mid if you're changing
Speaker 2: majors and all that, and certain things transfer and others don't.
Speaker 2: You could play four years of college basketball at three
Speaker 2: different schools and still be two years away from actually
Speaker 2: getting your degree. Again, it's probably is still worth it
Speaker 2: because again, you're making a lot of money. And I
Speaker 2: would assume a lot of these guys who are transferring
Speaker 2: the reason they're doing it is because they're making money.
Speaker 2: So I mean, in four seasons, f Fton Reed played
Speaker 2: in an average of twenty nine and a half games.
Speaker 2: Lucas Taylor is Syracuse. Don't even know who this guy is.
Speaker 2: He's played five seasons, two at Wake, one at Georgia State,
Speaker 2: one at Syracuse. Now he's only played ninety one career games.
Speaker 2: Eddie Lampkin Junior, this guy's been everywhere. I remember him
Speaker 2: six to eleven, big guy who played at Syracuse last year.
Speaker 2: Five seasons, one hundred and thirty seven career games, three
Speaker 2: at TCU, one at Colorado, won at Syracuse. My man,
Speaker 2: it is over. The run has come to an end.
Speaker 2: And you had a hell of a career. I mean
Speaker 2: not legendary, but I mean you got to experience awful Syracuse.
Speaker 2: But before that, you know, you were out in beautiful Colorado,
Speaker 2: teammates with the one and only Javon Hadley, and then
Speaker 2: at TCU played for Jamie Dixon. And I'm sure you
Speaker 2: had you know, had a good time there. But it's over. Brother,
Speaker 2: starts your life. Ben Middlebrooks n C State, oh four seasons,
Speaker 2: two of them were at NC State most recently, and
Speaker 2: then two at Clemson. Played one hundred and thirty one
Speaker 2: career games, went to a final four, like you you
Speaker 2: should have just walked then.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Jalen Blackman, I remember this guy, by the way, four seasons,
Speaker 2: one hundred and nine career games. He played at Grand
Speaker 2: Canyon for a year, played at Stetson for two, and
Speaker 2: then went at Miami last year. Christian Tucker, he's transferring
Speaker 2: out of Cal. One hundred and twenty career games in
Speaker 2: four seasons, played three at UTSA and then this last
Speaker 2: season at CAL.
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're probably gonna get told no. I guess
Speaker 2: the question is this, if you realize in your mind,
Speaker 2: why not do it? The NCAA has been, you know,
Speaker 2: just giving out waivers like crazy lately. Why not try
Speaker 2: this again? There's no harm in that. And if you
Speaker 2: have a plan post basketball, and you can put that
Speaker 2: plan on hold if you get another year again, there's
Speaker 2: no real harm. However, I mean, I feel like it's
Speaker 2: embarrassing to these guys. Maybe maybe I'm an a hole
Speaker 2: for thinking this is something they should be embarrassed about.
Speaker 2: Maybe they shouldn't be embarrassed at all. But like, I
Speaker 2: think the more this, the more this is talked about,
Speaker 2: allowed like people will really like this is sad. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's a lot more sad stuff going on in the
Speaker 2: world today. But I mean Rain Smith, by the way,
Speaker 2: is the first response under Jeff Gubbin's sweet that mentioned
Speaker 2: all these players in the acc He said, can I
Speaker 2: get another year?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Why not?
Speaker 2: Why can't Rain try it? I mean maybe I would
Speaker 2: then say it's but here's the answer.
Speaker 3: Brain.
Speaker 2: Smith is aware of like life like, he's not delusional.
Speaker 2: He understands that his runs come to end. He obviously
Speaker 2: would would would. I'm sure love to come back to
Speaker 2: college if he can. But you know, he's aware that
Speaker 2: it's over. So he's joking when he says kind of
Speaker 2: get another year. He's not entering the portal. He knows
Speaker 2: that college basketball had a good four year career. What also,
Speaker 2: I think it's kind of sad is that like Clemson
Speaker 2: under Brad brown Well, which, by the way, if there
Speaker 2: was ever any truth that Brad brown Well being a
Speaker 2: legitimate candidate in Indiana, that's scary because that guy, I mean,
Speaker 2: he made an elite eight last year at Clemson, but
Speaker 2: that was a one off. Like Brad burn Well's been
Speaker 2: a mid coach at best, and the only time he
Speaker 2: wasn't awful, like he somehow survived a really you know,
Speaker 2: awful stretch as their coach. Not awful, but you know,
Speaker 2: I mean like he wasn't good by any means, and
Speaker 2: every year you'd be like, oh, they're going to bring
Speaker 2: him back, and they did for a long time, and
Speaker 2: then he started to become more successful in the ACC.
Speaker 2: You know, when the league fell off a cliff and
Speaker 2: all they really good coaches that been there for a
Speaker 2: long time, they moved on. So what's really sad about
Speaker 2: Clemson basketball is I feel like they know we're not
Speaker 2: gonna be able to go get a lot of talent
Speaker 2: in the portal, and you know, we're probably going to
Speaker 2: be back to being Clemson basketball and just being known
Speaker 2: for football. So let's just have these guys who helped
Speaker 2: us make a run to the Elite eight that are
Speaker 2: out of eligibility, that really fit Brad Brown, Well, let's
Speaker 2: have them hit the portal and just see what happens,
Speaker 2: because that's our best bet of you know, not going
Speaker 2: back to being Clemson basketball of old. All right, it's
Speaker 2: coffee and Company. We're feel about Thordon's here on Sports
Speaker 2: Talk seven to nine. He've been a busy, busy show
Speaker 2: so far. Here on a Monday. Thank you guys for
Speaker 2: hanging out with us. Hopefully you had a good Easter weekend.
Speaker 2: I know I certainly did and enjoyed Easter Sunday. We
Speaker 2: got lucky with the weather. It was supposed to rain
Speaker 2: I think at some point Saturday and Sunday, and it
Speaker 2: missed us at least it missed me where I was
Speaker 2: out and about doing stuff.
Speaker 3: So that's always good. You know, you never want a
Speaker 3: rainy weekend.
Speaker 2: But whenever you kind of just accept it because that's
Speaker 2: what the forecast looks like, and then you realize, sure enough,
Speaker 2: you're able to get some things in on the weekend
Speaker 2: that you didn't expect. There's that spontaneous component to it
Speaker 2: that's like, you know what, didn't think I'd be out
Speaker 2: here doing this on the weekend here, but hell yeah,
Speaker 2: so you know, hopefully you guys had a good Eastern.
Speaker 2: All right. We've talked about the NFL Draft today and
Speaker 2: we'll continue to do that throughout the week because you know,
Speaker 2: we're just a few days away from the draft. And
Speaker 2: when it comes to Tyler Shuck, he continues to be
Speaker 2: discussed as a guy that will be one of the
Speaker 2: first quarterbacks taken.
Speaker 3: And I believe that's the truth.
Speaker 2: I guess what it comes down to is that, like
Speaker 2: I don't believe this is smoke screen that like, this
Speaker 2: guy's not at all on the radar. He's just you know,
Speaker 2: there's some kind of a strategy here to put it
Speaker 2: out there and see who takes the bait. Like you know,
Speaker 2: this is a little bit of I mean, this is
Speaker 2: a big time exaggeration when it comes to like a hypothetical,
Speaker 2: But like I bet there's been guys in the NFL
Speaker 2: that got drafted and they really just got punked, meaning
Speaker 2: the teams that drafted them.
Speaker 3: Like, we don't really know.
Speaker 2: What everybody loves about this guy, but man, everybody's talking
Speaker 2: about him, and here he is available for us in
Speaker 2: the third round.
Speaker 3: We got to take him.
Speaker 2: Like, I bet that's happened, because that's how Caddy and like,
Speaker 2: you know, paranoid and really, I guess competitive the NFL
Speaker 2: is when it comes to this kind of stuff. So
Speaker 2: to hear Adam Schefter report today that he's talked to
Speaker 2: people who actually believe that Chuck is the best quarterback
Speaker 2: in this draft, that's crazy. Now, I don't think that,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think anybody's claiming he's going to
Speaker 2: be taken in the first taken it's the first quarterback.
Speaker 2: But what if he was. I mean, he won't be,
Speaker 2: but like it'd be crazy. So I think just just
Speaker 2: guessing here, that's what we're all doing. I would I
Speaker 2: think that a first round pick is probably not likely
Speaker 2: at this point, but I think the scenario is this.
Speaker 2: It could be a team in the later rounds that
Speaker 2: doesn't need a quarterback right now, but they know they
Speaker 2: will soon, and they like him enough to where they're thinking, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're not going to let this guy passes by. We
Speaker 2: think he's the best quarterback in this draft. And you know,
Speaker 2: we never thought he'd be here, but this will keep
Speaker 2: us from having to maybe go out and you know,
Speaker 2: hope for a much better quarterback class next year in
Speaker 2: the draft. So again, I can't remember the last time
Speaker 2: I was a six sided for a draft where I'm
Speaker 2: just wanting to see what happens with with the Louisville player. Again,
Speaker 2: with Lamar a little different because you know, I just
Speaker 2: was you know, the lead up to the draft was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: he's gonna be He's gonna be a top fifteen guy, no,
Speaker 2: no doubt. I mean he's He's Lamar And sure enough,
Speaker 2: like all that yapping about the concerns was clearly true
Speaker 2: because he didn't go to the last pick of the draft,
Speaker 2: but clearly that that worked out well for him. All right,
Speaker 2: So back to basketball here, A couple people have asked
Speaker 2: the same kind of question, and that is, you know,
Speaker 2: who is Louisville Like, who are they going to try
Speaker 2: to finish out their roster with? And I don't know,
Speaker 2: I mean I think the Florida State transfer Jamiir Watkins.
Speaker 2: There was a report I believe from Trilie Donovan that
Speaker 2: he was visiting Louisville that sound that that. I don't
Speaker 2: think that was true. Louisvill was involved, and I don't
Speaker 2: know where they stand as of now. However, he's He's
Speaker 2: not somebody that that that visited unless you know, they
Speaker 2: kept it super secret.
Speaker 3: So I wish I had an answer for you.
Speaker 2: But for those that you know, I don't think they're
Speaker 2: waiting for Casein in order to figure out what they
Speaker 2: want to do. I believe they're operating as if they
Speaker 2: have Casein. And again, he hasn't put anything out that
Speaker 2: I've seen that says like he's entering the portal or anything.
Speaker 2: So with the deadline approaching, I mean, I think it'd
Speaker 2: be a real big shocker if he doesn't end up
Speaker 2: back at Louisville, because again, he hasn't even hit the
Speaker 2: portal yet to be recruited by their schools. So I
Speaker 2: would assume right now, whatever it is they're doing behind
Speaker 2: the scenes to try to finish out this roster, Pat
Speaker 2: Kelsey and his staff are doing that with case and
Speaker 2: Pryor being a part of it, and I think that's
Speaker 2: what they should be doing. But as far as you know,
Speaker 2: like the best players available, you're looking at PJ. Haggerty,
Speaker 2: which by the way, sounds like his four million dollar
Speaker 2: price tag as well as wanting to have total point.
Speaker 3: Guard duties like that, that's had a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe he gets it somewhere, but a lot
Speaker 2: of Jeff Goobman reported that a lot of the big
Speaker 2: time schools have already kind of pulled out and and
Speaker 2: you know, they're not gonna they're not gonna get in
Speaker 2: the sweepstakes there. Our J louis still available and I
Speaker 2: haven't heard much about really anything as far as where
Speaker 2: he may end up. But yeah, for the most part,
Speaker 2: a lot of these guys that are you know, highly
Speaker 2: regarded from the portal have already decided where they're going
Speaker 2: to go.
Speaker 3: And you know, I would.
Speaker 2: Imagine that Louisville's next pieces from the portal will probably
Speaker 2: not be guys that are you know, viewed as like
Speaker 2: everybody wants, because again, their roster's pretty much set.
Speaker 3: Like at guard.
Speaker 2: If you're selling the guard position right now, I mean,
Speaker 2: good luck telling somebody you know, like go, good luck
Speaker 2: going and getting a really good player that has a
Speaker 2: lot of options to come in and be you know,
Speaker 2: you could tell them he can compete, and he's gonna
Speaker 2: have an opportunity, but they're gonna know that, you know what,
Speaker 2: they got this freshman binom coming in, Michael Brown Junior,
Speaker 2: and they've added three guards in the portal that clearly
Speaker 2: they prioritize more so than me. So these names, and
Speaker 2: I don't even have one to give you off the top,
Speaker 2: but like, there's certain names out there that end up
Speaker 2: being names you're learning about, like when they commit because
Speaker 2: they're just not you know, they're not being pursued by
Speaker 2: everybody else. But those end up being really difficult to get,
Speaker 2: believe it or not, and they become very valuable. So
Speaker 2: I wish I had answers for you. But as it
Speaker 2: stands right now, Louisville still looks like they've got a
Speaker 2: roster that should be considered you know, they should be
Speaker 2: one of the top ten teams in the country next year,
Speaker 2: which is exciting to say. We'll see if it happens.
Speaker 2: Talking about it in April doesn't mean it's going to
Speaker 2: play out that way, but a good position to be
Speaker 2: in and who knows. Maybe if they add more players,
Speaker 2: which they certainly will, maybe if it's certain guys, they
Speaker 2: could jump up even more.
Speaker 3: All let's do this. Let's get to a quick break.
Speaker 2: We'll try to keep this thing on track to where
Speaker 2: we have as much time as possible before we get
Speaker 2: out of here.
Speaker 3: So stick with us.
Speaker 2: It's coffee and Company, and we are feel about Thornton's
Speaker 2: right here on Sports Talk seven ninety.
Speaker 1: Now back to coffee and Company fueled by Thornton's on
Speaker 1: Sports Talk seven to nine day.
Speaker 2: So as we get closer to the NFL Draft, you'll
Speaker 2: continue to hear people referencing some of the biggest bus
Speaker 2: that have taken place over the years.
Speaker 3: And I think I have a.
Speaker 2: Different opinion than a lot of people when it comes
Speaker 2: to what makes a draft bust, because, like, for example,
Speaker 2: when you bring up in basketball the biggest NBA draft bust,
Speaker 2: a lot of people will mention Greg Odin And I'm
Speaker 2: not surprised by that. But he got hurt. He didn't plan,
Speaker 2: he didn't pan out to be terrible, He had career
Speaker 2: ending injuries and it ruined his career and he you know,
Speaker 2: couldn't play anymore. Yeah, technically, I guess you know your
Speaker 2: pick was a bust because it didn't work out. But
Speaker 2: injuries were the reason he didn't play. It wasn't if
Speaker 2: it wasn't as if you evaluated a guy and you
Speaker 2: were wrong about his talent. Now, I guess you were
Speaker 2: wrong about the sustainability of somebody with that kind of
Speaker 2: frame and whatnot.
Speaker 3: But I just feel like that's so obviously a different thing.
Speaker 2: But I guess I'm in the minority because I don't
Speaker 2: think other people see it that way. Like, let me
Speaker 2: give you another example actually before we do that, when
Speaker 2: it comes to the biggest NBA draft bust of all time,
Speaker 2: I I don't. I think this guy is so forgettable
Speaker 2: and had such a little and I mean little impact
Speaker 2: or even really involvement. Impact would be he didn't have
Speaker 2: any impact in the NBA at all, but he had
Speaker 2: very little involvement that he's so easy to forget. But
Speaker 2: to me, he is without question the biggest draft bust
Speaker 2: of any draft, any sport, any level, anytime.
Speaker 3: And that's Anthony Bennett. I mean Anthony Bennett.
Speaker 2: I remember was at UNLV and played one season, went
Speaker 2: number one overall to the Calves, and I mean he
Speaker 2: was out of the NBA all together.
Speaker 3: Within two years.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's crazy, right, And it wasn't like he
Speaker 2: was getting in trouble. It wasn't as if like he
Speaker 2: was a you know some guys. It's both like JaMarcus
Speaker 2: Russell wasn't nearly as good as anybody thought he was
Speaker 2: going to be, but he also did stupid stuff like
Speaker 2: not reading the playbook. This guy just wasn't good enough
Speaker 2: to play in the NBA at all, and the Calves
Speaker 2: drafted him number one overall, and then Braun wanted to
Speaker 2: come back. Therefore it turned into where, you know, quickly,
Speaker 2: you just forget he existed. But to me, that is
Speaker 2: the biggest bust, because he was taken as the number
Speaker 2: one pick overall and he could not play at.
Speaker 3: All in the league. Taken as a reach too.
Speaker 2: He was the first guy I can ever remember being
Speaker 2: taken early in the draft and not being able to
Speaker 2: hide how shocked he was that he got drafted, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like it was. I mean, he
Speaker 2: was there in attendance and he walked up and that
Speaker 2: was a really bad draft, by the way. And here's
Speaker 2: here's another thing that like that that I don't think
Speaker 2: is fair for certain guys to be listed as as
Speaker 2: a as busts. So like Jadavian Clowney, he was the
Speaker 2: number one pick overall, and I would say that he
Speaker 2: has not been as good as people thought he was
Speaker 2: based off the hype that he had because he had.
Speaker 3: A ton of hype. Yeah, that tackle.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's still he's still in the NFL at
Speaker 2: least he was as of last year with the Panthers.
Speaker 2: But he's he's made Pro Bowls three he made he's
Speaker 2: actually a three time Pro Bowl guy. He's second team
Speaker 2: All NFL in twenty sixteen. I mean he's been a
Speaker 2: very I mean, he's been a good NFL player.
Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd say so. He's been only ten years.
Speaker 2: So like, I don't you know, if you can be
Speaker 2: an All Pro and you've played over a decade, you're
Speaker 2: not a bust. You you maybe didn't live up to
Speaker 2: what the hype was. But that that's a different conversation
Speaker 2: than being a bust.
Speaker 1: You agree.
Speaker 4: He wasn't Lawrence Taylor or anything, but he was a
Speaker 4: serviceable guy when you needed an ed drusher y.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's he's he's a guy that I just
Speaker 2: don't understand how people put him in the bust category,
Speaker 2: and yet and yet they do. And here's another here's
Speaker 2: why they do that, and it's another reason why. I
Speaker 2: just you know, to me, it's just my opinion and
Speaker 2: clearly doesn't mean much of anything because I'm in the minority.
Speaker 2: A lot of people view this differently. But if you
Speaker 2: look at the twenty fourteen NFL draft, yeah, there's better
Speaker 2: players that came after him because he was number one.
Speaker 2: I mean, that wasn't a great draft, but you had
Speaker 2: Khalil mack co number five, Mike Evans went number seven.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean Odell Beckham number twelve, twelve, Aaron
Speaker 2: Donald number thirteen, which is kind of crazy. So look,
Speaker 2: those guys are better, without question. I've had better careers,
Speaker 2: but that doesn't make him a bust. Somebody going after
Speaker 2: you and being really good doesn't mean in any way
Speaker 2: that you are a bust. I mean, at least in
Speaker 2: my opinion.
Speaker 3: Yes, again, a.
Speaker 2: Bust is a guy like man because bust is extreme being.
Speaker 2: There's no good way to be called a bust, and
Speaker 2: it just gets thrown around loosely. And it also gets
Speaker 2: thrown around because of like Jannisante Tokupo was the best
Speaker 2: player in the twenty and thirteen draft that we just referenced. Well, like,
Speaker 2: if that's the case, everybody was a bust who going
Speaker 2: ahead of him? Now again clearly the number one picking
Speaker 2: that draft, Bennett we just discussed.
Speaker 3: That's that's big time bust.
Speaker 2: And since we're talking about all time bust, another name
Speaker 2: that comes in the conversation Purvis Ellison. I'll defend him.
Speaker 2: He was the number one pick in the draft. And obviously,
Speaker 2: you know, he didn't ever play like a guy that
Speaker 2: you looked like that you know, that looked like somebody
Speaker 2: worthy of being the number one player taken. But he
Speaker 2: also played in the NBA for well over a decade
Speaker 2: and was you know, productive up until you know, his
Speaker 2: last few years. And he had a season in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety two where he averaged twenty points in twelve rebounds.
Speaker 2: I mean, he was most improved player in ninety two. Again,
Speaker 2: he played over ten years, So yeah, he didn't necessarily
Speaker 2: play like a guy that you know, you would have
Speaker 2: ever thought would be worthy of being taken as the
Speaker 2: number one pick in the draft. But like, if you
Speaker 2: play a decade in the NBA, I just think it's
Speaker 2: insanity to say that that person is a bust. You know,
Speaker 2: hardest to play in the NBA, you know, hard itest
Speaker 2: to do for ten years.
Speaker 3: Like that's crazy.
Speaker 2: And yeah, there's other players that went after him that
Speaker 2: that you know ended up having better careers, but you
Speaker 2: know not. I mean, I'm looking here at the nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine draft when Purvis went number one, Danny Ferry
Speaker 2: went number two, Shawn Elliott number three, Glenn Rice number four, Jr.
Speaker 2: Reid number five, Like all these guys good players, trust me,
Speaker 2: I know that, but I don't. I mean, and again,
Speaker 2: a lot of these guys that is referenced were better
Speaker 2: than purpose, but not really by that much. I mean,
Speaker 2: they had better careers, more memorable. And it's unfortunate because
Speaker 2: when you go number one, even if you play ten years.
Speaker 2: In fact, the longer you stick around, the more people
Speaker 2: are reminded that you were the number one pick and
Speaker 2: that you're a bust. Like it's just that'll probably never change.
Speaker 2: That's just what comes with being the number one pick
Speaker 2: in a draft. But if you think about it, the
Speaker 2: standard is so high for NBA and NFL draft picks.
Speaker 2: They go number one, how many do we sit back
Speaker 2: and say, yeah, that guy he was worthy of the
Speaker 2: number one pick. Like sometimes you got guys, they go
Speaker 2: number one based off of a specific team's need, and
Speaker 2: the team would probably tell you behind closed doors, Yeah,
Speaker 2: if we didn't, you know, we needed this position, the
Speaker 2: next seven picks don't. Therefore, yeah, we get it. He
Speaker 2: probably would go number eight, but we need him and
Speaker 2: we need it bad. We need somebody to you know,
Speaker 2: protect our quarterback on the offensive line, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: But when it comes to worst NFL draft picks of
Speaker 2: all time that went, you know, I mean you're gonna
Speaker 2: hear names that obviously, like JaMarcus Russell is certainly up there.
Speaker 3: Who well, let me see if I Yeah, so here's
Speaker 3: some name like Ryan Leaf.
Speaker 2: That's a big one obviously, and it's because obviously he
Speaker 2: went before Peyton Manning, didn't he.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we had a caller that referenced Tim Couch right
Speaker 4: now as a bust.
Speaker 2: Yes, again, I get it, but I think going back
Speaker 2: to a conversation we had earlier, Austin he was set
Speaker 2: up for failure in Cleveland like he would he would
Speaker 2: have been, And I mean, who will never know, right,
Speaker 2: it's the ultimate unknown. But like I don't know what
Speaker 2: quarterback could have gone into Cleveland when Tim Couch did,
Speaker 2: that would have made them much better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll defend him on that. Yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 3: just that, and that's so obvious.
Speaker 2: Yet it just doesn't get Maybe it's just the jealousy
Speaker 2: of a lot of people like you know, average Joe's
Speaker 2: like myself that like.
Speaker 3: Oh I got stunk.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, do you know many other Like there's
Speaker 2: certain dudes who, Yes, there are certain dudes whose careers
Speaker 2: have literally been defined by timing and they went to
Speaker 2: a team that no matter, like no matter you could
Speaker 2: you could take. This is something Again, I just wish
Speaker 2: more people would consider this. There are teams out there
Speaker 2: right now that are awful, that are you know, that
Speaker 2: are gonna draft a quarterback maybe or you know, in
Speaker 2: a previous year's draft they're terrible and.
Speaker 3: They know they got to go pick a quarterback.
Speaker 2: You could take a quarterback that's believed to be maybe
Speaker 2: one of the top twelve thirteen in the league. In
Speaker 2: that range, you put that quarterback that's played in the league,
Speaker 2: that's got a starting spot, that clearly is having some
Speaker 2: success because they're continuing. They're believed to be a top
Speaker 2: fifteen quarterback. You put that guy in the same spot
Speaker 2: that you're putting a rookie quarterback. I bet there's not
Speaker 2: that much of a difference because some of these franchises
Speaker 2: and ownership they're inept, like it's not the player, it's
Speaker 2: the system. It's it's And that's not to say these
Speaker 2: guys would be elite had they gone elsewhere, but like,
Speaker 2: good luck making it work if you're drafted by the Jaguars, right, like,
Speaker 2: it's just you know, it's how it is. Or the Jets, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, or the Browns like that. And again it's
Speaker 2: not like a one off. It's been like routine. You
Speaker 2: go to certain places at quarterback, you're gonna be screwed,
Speaker 2: like the Browns. I mean, if the Browns ever successfully
Speaker 2: got it right at quarterback on draft night. No, in fact,
Speaker 2: I think the one time they did, they they ended
Speaker 2: up letting a diva receiver come in and create a
Speaker 2: toxic situation and that let Baker Mayfield kind of get
Speaker 2: a fresh start. And Baker's not elite, but he's better
Speaker 2: than any quarterback they've had in a long time.
Speaker 3: Quarterback, Yeah, you could win with him. He's a winner.
Speaker 2: And then you know, they brought in beck Odell Beckham
Speaker 2: and he starts, you know, complaining about Baker and not
Speaker 2: getting touches, and yeah, created a toxic situation, so they
Speaker 2: decided to part ways with him. And you know, in
Speaker 2: all aspects, Breaker Mayfield, that's some of the best, you know,
Speaker 2: his story overall, from from beginning to now. I mean
Speaker 2: he could in now and he would have I think,
Speaker 2: something you'd see in a movie. I mean maybe not
Speaker 2: because of like you know, he hadn't had that big
Speaker 2: ultimate NFL moment, but I mean him getting a fresh
Speaker 2: start and winning and getting Tampa to the playoffs both
Speaker 2: years of as their starter after being you know, basically
Speaker 2: written off. I mean, that's a good story. So same
Speaker 2: thing with Sam Donald and Geno Smith, Like you get
Speaker 2: drafted to the Jets, Please Sam Donald, save our franchise,
Speaker 2: Please Geno Smith, save our franchise, and just get thrown
Speaker 2: out their day one and and and they're they're set
Speaker 2: up for failure.
Speaker 4: But now they just go to different organizations. It's going
Speaker 4: to be able to pamper to them and they actually
Speaker 4: have winning cultures. Like I know, the Vikings have never
Speaker 4: won a Super Bowl, but they're far, far, far from
Speaker 4: a dumpster fire. Team Seahawks have obviously been to Super
Speaker 4: Bowl one one, and they're just structurally more contained than
Speaker 4: any of the other ones that we just previously mentioned.
Speaker 4: So you could put a quarterback like there that was
Speaker 4: once a part of the land of the Dying quarterbacks.
Speaker 4: And I think the next one is people are looking
Speaker 4: at is the Max Wilson kid, because he's on free
Speaker 4: agency right now. Wilson, Zach Wilson, I say, Max Wilson, Yeah,
Speaker 4: Sach Wilson, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean he's somebody that Again it's the Jets, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, yes, So I just put it so the
Speaker 2: worst quarterback's biggest busts, I should say as far as
Speaker 2: guy's taken really early, I mean to Marcus Russell's is
Speaker 2: going to always be number one hit, eighteen touchdowns, twenty
Speaker 2: three interceptions. I mean, he was out of the league
Speaker 2: in three seasons. Couch I did forget this. He had
Speaker 2: injuries as well. That was a big factor. But again
Speaker 2: with even when healthy, and here's what's crazy, maybe he's
Speaker 2: somebody also that we throw in there as Okay, yeah
Speaker 2: he's a bust, but man, he was injuries.
Speaker 3: He so listen to this.
Speaker 2: Again, these are not impressive numbers. He was drafted by
Speaker 2: the Browns in nineteen ninety nine. He went twenty three
Speaker 2: and thirty seven as a starter, never played again after
Speaker 2: two thousand and three. I mean, there's no way to
Speaker 2: say that that's good and that's a good, you know,
Speaker 2: rundown of his career. But like the Browns were expansion
Speaker 2: at the time and they were brand new. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: you know, I just feel like if you look at
Speaker 2: him overall, nobody would say, yeah, thek I was a
Speaker 2: good quarterback, but you have to consider where he like
Speaker 2: the situation. Yeah, more than just that he wasn't good?
Speaker 2: Are David Carr? He's easy to forget because he was
Speaker 2: on the He was the guy drafted by the expansion Texans,
Speaker 2: So like that's just a blur of an arrow when
Speaker 2: they started and the Texans launched.
Speaker 3: But he was bad.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And then this is one that I remember in real
Speaker 2: time thinking like, dude, this guy he kind of stinks,
Speaker 2: and yet he keeps getting opportunities and he keeps like
Speaker 2: he's still living off the hype he had early on
Speaker 2: in college with Sam Bradford.
Speaker 3: Yeah, mean, he was taken. Was he number one? I
Speaker 3: think he was. He was a Heisman winner.
Speaker 4: I mean he he was, and he obviously is the guy.
Speaker 4: Would I would attribute his to more injuries he for what?
Speaker 4: For whatever reason? Was he ever good though?
Speaker 3: In the NFL. I don't really remember him ever.
Speaker 4: Like he had a short step with the Vikings that
Speaker 4: were undefeated for six and then it then then then
Speaker 4: it kind of fell off. But they had drafted they
Speaker 4: had traded their number one pick the Vikings. This was
Speaker 4: when right after Teddy Bridgewater shredded his knee in practice,
Speaker 4: literally two weeks before the season, and the Vikings felt
Speaker 4: like they had a pretty decent roster go ahead and
Speaker 4: compete because they were about to hand the keys of
Speaker 4: the city over to Teddy Bridgewater.
Speaker 3: But they needed a panic really bad.
Speaker 4: So they went out and got Sam Bradford started six
Speaker 4: and oh that year and thought that he did really
Speaker 4: well and then it kind of fell off. Then the
Speaker 4: very next year he has a best career. He has
Speaker 4: the best game of his career Monday Night Football against
Speaker 4: the Saints, absolutely torches him and then didn't play for
Speaker 4: the next two weeks. Turns out that his knee was
Speaker 4: shredded and that's where case Keenum came in and led
Speaker 4: him through that magic.
Speaker 3: Carpet, right.
Speaker 2: I could be wrong, but I don't think it was
Speaker 2: maybe because of him, but he's just the guy that
Speaker 2: comes to mind for a lot of people, including myself,
Speaker 2: that he got there. You know, those rookie contracts used
Speaker 2: to have so much money on him to where like
Speaker 2: the NFL Players Association fought and they got it changed
Speaker 2: where you can't have so much of the roster salary
Speaker 2: cap allotted to a guy that's trapped it, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like he's one of the I think
Speaker 2: he's the last quarterback that got paid an insane amount
Speaker 2: of money based off his rookie deal and like he
Speaker 2: never really did anything to like, you know, never did
Speaker 2: anything with it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it never led up to the XBC because he
Speaker 4: was throwing four or five hundred yards a game.
Speaker 2: I just remember watching him in the NFL multiple times
Speaker 2: and realizing, like, all, all I haven't heard about this
Speaker 2: guy is that he's he's the guy, he's the future,
Speaker 2: he's this, you know, he's he's great. And I never
Speaker 2: watched him and felt like he was average, Like I
Speaker 2: thought he's stunk. But again, you know, I probably didn't
Speaker 2: watch closely, and you know, maybe I maybe maybe maybe
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 3: More injury related.
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe if I remember right his his I think
Speaker 4: he won the Heisman as junior season. Then there's tons
Speaker 4: of hype around him that very next year, and I
Speaker 4: think he I think he tore his kyler bone like
Speaker 4: the first the first game of the season.
Speaker 2: He may have been out the rest of the year.
Speaker 2: I think one that don't quote. Do you remember Josh Rosen.
Speaker 2: He's got to be in a conversation right because he
Speaker 2: taken over Lamar. He was taken with the tenth pick
Speaker 2: in the twenty eighteen draft, and was he was. He
Speaker 2: was one of the first guys I remember, like he
Speaker 2: came right out of college, right out of high school,
Speaker 2: I should say, at UCLA as a freshman and really
Speaker 2: was just I mean, you could you know he was
Speaker 2: the California.
Speaker 3: Quarterback everybody was raving about. He had everything you need.
Speaker 2: He had the size at you know, at six four,
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifteen pounds, great arm. Was just bred
Speaker 2: to be a quarterback. His whole life showed signs of
Speaker 2: that very much so in his freshman year at UCLA
Speaker 2: and then it kind of went down from there, like
Speaker 2: he it kind of feel like his best season might
Speaker 2: have been his freshman season. But then he gets drafted,
Speaker 2: and I thought, maybe it's just because I was, you know,
Speaker 2: it had been force fed into our minds that this
Speaker 2: guy was the future. I thought he had a chance
Speaker 2: to be pretty good. He he played for the Cardinals
Speaker 2: one season and started it looks like thirteen games. He
Speaker 2: went three and ten as a quarterback. Then he ended
Speaker 2: up at Miami and played in three games and or
Speaker 2: started three games, lost all three of them, and then
Speaker 2: he never played again.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well he only played two three season, so he only
Speaker 2: really played one season. Yeah too, I guess because in
Speaker 2: Miami he did play nine games but only started three.
Speaker 2: And then after that he was with the Niners briefly
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty didn't play, and then with the Falcons
Speaker 2: he was there for four games in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: but he never pl light. So, I mean, that's a
Speaker 2: guy that's easy to forget. But you're talking about a
Speaker 2: guy that was taken with the tenth pick. Who drafted him,
Speaker 2: by the way, was it the Cardinals?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 4: Josh Rosen, Yeah, the Cardinals, And then it was very
Speaker 4: the very next year drafted Kyler.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, And that's that's something you didn't used
Speaker 2: to see a team willing to just walk away from
Speaker 2: a huge investment, and you know like that, Like, let
Speaker 2: me give you an example, and I'm gonna tie to
Speaker 2: my Colts. If the Colts came out and walked away
Speaker 2: from Anthony Richardson, it would be big news.
Speaker 3: It would be, you know, be a big piece of news.
Speaker 2: But who would ultimately say that, Like they're like if
Speaker 2: they traded up, and this isn't a good year to
Speaker 2: do it, but like if there was, when's the last
Speaker 2: time you think we had like all the quarterback that
Speaker 2: everybody felt like, there's no doubt this guy is not
Speaker 2: going to be great. I can't think of him the
Speaker 2: last time we had one. Because nowadays, no matter how
Speaker 2: highly regarded they are, there's a there's a part of
Speaker 2: this process that they get torn down.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I believe Burrow you put Let's say.
Speaker 2: Let's say Burrow is there and the Colts, after two
Speaker 2: years of Richardson, they trade up to get Burrow and
Speaker 2: either cut Richardson or trade him or whatever it may be,
Speaker 2: Like nobody'd be surprised, right, Like, this is what makes
Speaker 2: me mad about the Colts is that they're they're living
Speaker 2: and they're living in La la land that this guy's
Speaker 2: gonna learn on the job and be successful. There's some
Speaker 2: jobs you can you know, you can learn on the
Speaker 2: go and pick it up. Not NFL quarterback. Yeah, guy's
Speaker 2: never been a winner at any level as a quarterback.
Speaker 2: He's all. He's only there because they're talking about. Oh
Speaker 2: he's got this cannon for an arm, and he's so fast,
Speaker 2: he's built like a mack truck. Can he throw the
Speaker 2: football to his teammates and move the ball downfield? Can
Speaker 2: he play without getting hurt? Can't do any of those things?
Speaker 2: Last that checked pretty important in that position. But I'm
Speaker 2: just a sad Colts fan. All right, quick break, We'll
Speaker 2: come back and wrap it up on the other side
Speaker 2: right here on Sports Talk seven ninety.
Speaker 1: Now back to coffee and company, fueled by Thornton's on
Speaker 1: Sports Talk seven to nine day.
Speaker 2: So finally, at least somebody's planning the situation. Ian Shaiflin
Speaker 2: is one of the many guys that have hit the portal,
Speaker 2: but no eligibility left, but just seeing what happens.
Speaker 3: He can read the room.
Speaker 2: He understands, you know, he has some ability to you know, again,
Speaker 2: read the room like see what this looks like. Understand optics,
Speaker 2: he says, while I'm putting my options, I said, while
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Speaker 2: due to depending instead of a case is to enter
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Speaker 3: Eligibility is allowed. That's at least an explanation.
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Speaker 3: But and there's no harm in it.
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Speaker 2: Say that's so fast, but you got any bets for tonight?
Speaker 3: Of course, let's know what you cook up. I got.
Speaker 4: I got Oganaobi twenty points and Josh Hart to have
Speaker 4: ten rebounds.
Speaker 3: I think I think they came out the border one.
Speaker 3: He's a big he's a big rebounding guard, that's for sure. Dude.
Speaker 3: I need it. I'm I want. I'm on a heater.
Speaker 2: We need I mad tail just to have fun because
Speaker 2: I need some action, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's it's a high scoring game, especially
Speaker 4: like with those two teams right there, so it should
Speaker 4: be it should it should be fun.
Speaker 3: Let's ride.
Speaker 2: All right, We're right here, you guys, enjoy your evening.
Speaker 2: Back at it tomorrow, right here on Sports Talk seven
Speaker 2: ninety