WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:02.919 Oh hey, it's the banana peel in your purse because 2 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:05.799 you can't find a trash can Alleyward. And this is ologies. 3 00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:10.000 This is a podcast about things this week crossword puzzles, 4 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:13.560 really crossword puzzles. There's anology for this, Hell yeah, there 5 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:17.280 is so. An enigmatologist is someone who studies and writes 6 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:21.399 word or math or logic puzzles, and enigma comes from 7 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:25.600 the Greek word for a dark saying or riddle or 8 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:29.000 a tale, and enigmatology. It's a real discipline. It's a 9 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:31.160 real thing. It was found in nineteen seventy four by 10 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:34.280 a guy named Will Schwartz, who created his own major 11 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:37.799 in puzzles at Indiana University. And that guy, Will Schwartz 12 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:39.759 is now the head of the New York Times Crossword 13 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.640 And this guest has been a friend for years. He's 14 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:47.359 always been a friend who was cooler than me, smarter 15 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:51.000 than me by a long shot, and capable of pulling 16 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:54.240 acts of extreme evil with the gifts he has, but 17 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:57.200 is actually a really solid dude. And he graduated from 18 00:00:57.280 --> 00:01:00.960 Harvard University, little place named Harvard, where he did a 19 00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:04.680 thesis on magic and has written crosswords for The New 20 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:07.879 York Times since two thousand and six, and he also 21 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:11.840 launched this interactive one man show called The Enigmatist, which 22 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:14.159 just had a run last year at the Geffen Playhouse 23 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:16.879 in LA and I caught the show, and I've wanted 24 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:18.680 to have him on for years, but we were both 25 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:20.519 traveling and I was taking care of my dad this summer, 26 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:23.599 so we just met up at his home in the 27 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:27.640 Winding Hills above Hollywood and we posted up in his 28 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:29.879 living room. But before we get to the conversation, a 29 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:34.159 quick thanks to everyone at Patreon. Hi, thanks for supporting 30 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:37.040 the show at cost a dollar or more a month, 31 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:40.640 and you can submit questions that is at patreon dot com. 32 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:45.120 Slash Ologies Merch is also available at ologiesmerch dot com, 33 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:49.000 including some brand new Spirit of Health or Goblin Damned 34 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:53.480 merch inspired by the Vamprology episodes, So get yourself some 35 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.400 of that. And thanks to everyone who is subscribing and 36 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.319 rating and reviewing. I read all the reviews in this 37 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:04.200 recent one by Kansas just got Geyer, who wrote, I've 38 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:06.040 been listening to this every day while I clean houses 39 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:08.319 for my job, and I'm learning so much. I love it. 40 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:10.680 It's making me consider switching up my major to do 41 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.560 some ecology alongside animation. Who knows, but anyway, thank you 42 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:16.759 for the show. It truly takes my job from tedious 43 00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:20.159 to tantalizing. Thank you, Kansas just got gayer. And also 44 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.639 congrats to Kansas on having you there because you seem cool. Okay, 45 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:31.479 onto the conversation with magician, puzzle maker, puzzle solver, speaker, performer, brainiac, 46 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:55.240 friend and enigmatologist David Kwang. You to check your bike 47 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:57.520 is if you can say, I love that you have 48 00:02:57.520 --> 00:02:58.919 a Rubik's cube going already. 49 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:02.319 I'm David Quong. He him. 50 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:05.439 I've known you for quite some time yeah, years, Yeah, 51 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:07.280 and this episode. 52 00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:08.240 We've made at the Magic Castle, right. 53 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:11.080 We did meet it the Magic Castle. Holy shit, I forgot. 54 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:13.879 How hard is it to become a magician at the 55 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:14.479 Magic Castle. 56 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:18.639 It's quite prestigious. There are a lot of people that 57 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:22.639 aspire to come to la and perform there for a week, 58 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:25.159 and you have to audition your material and then there 59 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:28.000 are the magician members and you do have to do 60 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:32.960 a fifteen minute or three trick routine to a committee 61 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.759 to be accepted as a magician member. 62 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.479 Okay, so quick aside, The Magic Castle is a restaurant 63 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:43.960 and a private club in the hills right above the 64 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.520 Hollywood Walk of Fame, and it was built in nineteen 65 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.919 oh nine, and it has turrets and stained glass and 66 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:55.039 a dress code involving sport coats and you can only 67 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:58.639 get in through a personal invite from a magician. And 68 00:03:58.759 --> 00:04:03.879 inside it's red carpet and brass fixtures. Dinner smells like 69 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:07.080 gravy there, and there are magic shows happening in little 70 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:09.599 theaters and corners all over the place. It's truly surreal. 71 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:13.759 And David has been an approved and esteemed member for 72 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:17.240 thirteen years. So yes, there is a semi secret cabal 73 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:20.759 of Hollywood magicians and he is one of them. Which 74 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:22.920 came first for you magic or puzzles. 75 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:27.000 Magic came first, at least the home videos show me 76 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:30.199 doing things when I was about six seven years old. 77 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.160 I think every kid has that phase thinking a magic 78 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:39.480 trick set. And then puzzles came from my mother, who 79 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:42.560 is the history of professor. So there was this love 80 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.800 for word games and scrabble oh triple word Score. And 81 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:49.480 then it wasn't until much later in life where I 82 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:54.600 decided to fuse those two things together. So in twenty 83 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:58.240 ten I threw a thirtieth birthday for myself. That tells 84 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:01.519 you how old I am. And I and through a 85 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:03.839 party at the Magic Castle and decided I wanted to 86 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:07.199 do a trick for everybody, and I came up with 87 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:12.079 this Crosser puzzle routine that has become my signature effect 88 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:12.920 ever since. 89 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:17.439 It's absolutely mind blowing. I watched you perform this at 90 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:21.759 the Geffen, and I think about it often. I still 91 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:23.759 am like, how did he do it? 92 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:24.639 So? 93 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:27.480 I saw his one man show, The Enigmatist last winter 94 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.079 during its run at the Geffen, and it was the 95 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:35.240 most intellectually engaging live show I've ever been to Puzzles 96 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.560 on puzzles on puzzles for the audience to solve, and 97 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.480 it was thrilling to learn I sucked so bad at them. 98 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:46.759 But David has talked about puzzles and magic publicly before, 99 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:49.680 during his twenty fourteen TED talk. 100 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:56.240 Puzzles and Magic. I work in what most people think 101 00:05:56.439 --> 00:06:00.560 are two distinct fields, but I believe they are the same. 102 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:05.040 I am both a magician and a New York Times 103 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:09.519 Crossford puzzle constructor, which basically means I've taken the world's 104 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:12.920 two nerdiest hobbies and combined them into one career. There's 105 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.199 a great tradition of puzzles and magic overlapping. A lot 106 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:18.439 of the books from the turn of the last century. 107 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.160 The magic books have a puzzle section, and then there 108 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:27.920 are famous magicians that Martin Gardner and the mathematicians or mathemagicians, 109 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:31.720 if you will, that feature the overlap of numbers and 110 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:35.160 probability and data and shuffling playing cards, and there's a 111 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:37.800 great tradition in it. For me, it was more that 112 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:43.600 the light bulb turned on that I could distinguish myself, 113 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:47.480 differentiate myself from everybody else in the field by doing 114 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:48.600 a different type of magic. 115 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:50.839 Have you ever gotten drunk and accidentally told someone how 116 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:51.439 it works? 117 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:57.720 Not? Really, it depends what it is. I'll say this, 118 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.199 My approach to magic is already one that's fairly transparent. 119 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.000 The show that you saw at the Geffen, The Enigmatist 120 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:09.399 starts with me revealing how a trick works. I put 121 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:12.040 up on the screen that saw a Lady in Half 122 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.040 trick from nineteen twenty one. And I'm not out to 123 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:20.079 ruin anyone's magic show, but I enjoy describing the principles 124 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:23.879 of allusion to people and putting forth that it's all 125 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:28.560 tricks it's all misdirection, and it's a puzzle for you 126 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:31.920 to figure out. And I don't pretend to have superpowers, 127 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.480 and I think that is what makes me a little 128 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:39.439 bit different than most magicians that on some level are 129 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:44.680 pretending to channel the powers from beyond. But there are 130 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:48.680 a there's a small sect of magicians that acknowledge right 131 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:50.839 up front that it's all tricks. Penn and Teller famously 132 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:54.319 for decades, have been doing that. So you didn't read 133 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:56.319 my mind, just that No, there's no such thing. 134 00:07:56.319 --> 00:08:00.920 It's absolutely lies. We did a trick a trick. All 135 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:01.800 that stuff is true. 136 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:05.279 And you get some real mechanics and practitioners of sleight 137 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:08.360 of hand who also say, none of this is real. 138 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:10.839 I'm just a step ahead of you, and that can 139 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:12.040 be very entertaining. 140 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:17.160 When it comes to making crossword puzzles. Obviously you must 141 00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:20.120 have been very good at it. You did it from 142 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:25.079 a young age. I imagine who writes these? How many 143 00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:28.279 people are writing crossword puzzles versus who's doing them. I 144 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.759 feel like I didn't even think about crossword puzzles being 145 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:34.159 written by someone until I met you. I got sort 146 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:36.960 of just figured they were just birthed from a stone somewhere. 147 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:39.480 How did you start? 148 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:44.879 Okay, Well, my love for word games and competitive scrabble, 149 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:49.440 and it's no surprise that I've found crossword construction known 150 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:53.480 as cruciverbialism m HM, or a cruciverbalist is one who 151 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:58.240 constructs crosswords, so crusa meaning cross like crucifix and verbal 152 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.519 meaning word like that. I started just after college, so 153 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:03.840 I've been doing it about twenty years. I had a 154 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:07.360 friend Kevin Chosett, who showed me the ropes and we've 155 00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:09.639 collaborated on a number of puzzles. The New York Times 156 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:14.080 and most other publications are freelance. Anyone can mail one 157 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:17.039 in and if you're listening to this and you're encouraged 158 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:19.679 to do so, reach out and I'm happy to give 159 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:22.879 you a few tips. It's gotten much more competitive now 160 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:27.399 that in the pandemic it exploded. Yeah, so the New 161 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:31.960 York Times, it used to be like you would have 162 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:35.360 to wait six months to hear back. They may still 163 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:38.200 say that, but I just know that they're getting dozens 164 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:40.279 and dozens a day. And yeah, we're in a golden 165 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:42.879 age of puzzles. There are a lot of independent crossword 166 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:46.360 resources now, crossword publications, New Yorker has one. I think 167 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:49.519 New York Magazine has one. The browser, they're all over 168 00:09:49.559 --> 00:09:52.279 the place. A lot of indie blogs feature them, so 169 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:54.200 a lot of places to submit your puzzles. 170 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:57.000 But what do you think of the word enigmatology. Yes, 171 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:00.000 from an anymological standpoint. 172 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:04.159 That sentence was very hard to say, thank you. Enigmatology 173 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:12.080 From an etymological enigmatology was coined, I believe by Will Schwartz, 174 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:15.440 or at least he made it famous because he went 175 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:19.639 to college at Indiana University and created this major for himself. 176 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:24.440 So we all bow to the great puzzle guru, Will Schwartz. 177 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:27.039 He's a lovely guy. He's been a friend and a 178 00:10:27.080 --> 00:10:31.159 mentor for years. And enigmatology is the study of puzzles. 179 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:35.960 I took a page out of that book and I 180 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:42.519 combined enigma and enigmatology with an ist type of word, 181 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.919 like a hypnotist, an illusionist, a mentalist, and I came 182 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:46.879 up with the enigmatist. 183 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:47.799 It's perfect. 184 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:48.240 I mean. 185 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:52.200 Also, I love that someone who constructs crossword puzzles can 186 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:54.279 just make up words if they want. That's one thing 187 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:55.159 I've learned here. 188 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:58.799 We made a crucive verbalist, and it's in some dictionaries 189 00:10:58.799 --> 00:10:59.399 been not all. 190 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.960 There's no rule. Well, if you're writing them, or maybe 191 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:05.080 you're just solving them, or maybe you're intimidated by them. 192 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:08.559 Do you ever look into the neuroscience of puzzles and 193 00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:12.360 magic and why our brains want to solve things? 194 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:16.879 Sure? What I consider often is that we are wired 195 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:21.159 to solve problems. And I think that the first people 196 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:25.759 had to figure out how to get their food. And 197 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:28.240 if you go left, you'll avoid the saber tooth tiger, 198 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.799 and if you go right, you'll be able to cross 199 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:34.080 the river by knocking a tree over and using it 200 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.919 as a bridge. It's these puzzles are are we figure 201 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:40.720 things out to survive. So I think it goes back 202 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.279 to the beginning of time and it helps us make 203 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.879 order out of chaos. Another way to look at recreational 204 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.320 puzzles is that I'm not sure I entirely agree with that, 205 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:52.480 but I'll say it anyway. I've heard some people put 206 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:57.080 forth that puzzles are kind of like pain, Like you 207 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:02.120 are subjecting your brain to this chatchallenge and it's stressful, 208 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:03.799 and you work at it, and you work at it 209 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.639 and you work at it, and finally you solve it. 210 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:11.759 You have that enormous release, this AHA moment of a 211 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.559 triumphed I figured it out, and there's a basic human 212 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:16.440 need to overcome adversity like that. 213 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.600 For some light reading on this, you can crack open 214 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:23.360 the Journal of Human Brain Mappings, August twenty eighteen edition 215 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:27.799 for the study titled Ultra High Field fMRI Insights on 216 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:32.000 Insight Neural Correlates of the AHA Moment, which took a 217 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:35.320 bunch of German volunteers willing to get stuffed into a 218 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:39.360 functional MRI machine while doing word puzzles, and they were 219 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:44.240 given simple tasks try to figure out what word connects 220 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:48.799 three other words like house, bark an apple. What's the 221 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:54.720 common word okay, tree treehouse, tree, bark, apple tree. So 222 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:57.320 when the volunteers figured it out, they were to press 223 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.440 a button and then the fMRI was like a brain 224 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:05.080 paparazzi flashing going off seeing what's happening. And the researchers 225 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:09.080 found that no matter the level of difficulty, that solving 226 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:14.159 the puzzle caused robust subcortical activity changes in the bilateral 227 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:18.799 thalmis hippocampus and the dopein emergenic mid brain comprising ventral 228 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:24.919 attagamental area nucleus, accumbans and cudate nucleus. What the fuck 229 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.919 does that mean? It means your brain gets tickled and 230 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:30.799 then you release dopamine and it feels so nice. So yes, 231 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:34.720 we like overcoming adversity, especially in a way that is 232 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.159 low stakes. You know. It's not like I'm trying to 233 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:40.039 jump between buildings for I'm like, figured out the word all. 234 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:42.919 A triumphantday is all I need. Maybe when it starts 235 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:44.720 with a crossword puzzle, and I'm going to admit that 236 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.840 I fucking suck at crossword puzzles, And it's one of 237 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:51.279 those things that I don't know why I'm bad at it. 238 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:56.519 I like bananagrams, I like wordle I suck it scrabble, 239 00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:59.600 but I have so much trivia and facts in my mind. 240 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:02.159 But when it comes to crossword puzzles, I just stare 241 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.639 blankly at them and I don't know why, and I'm 242 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:05.320 ashamed of it. 243 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:06.879 No, don't be ashamed of it. 244 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.480 Why are you so good at it? How do you. 245 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.720 Start with Monday? That's the easiest day of the week, 246 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:15.879 easiest day of the week. Everyone can do a Monday puzzle. 247 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.320 Everyone in air quotes Onday. 248 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:20.480 Okay, the new York times. It gets harder throughout the week. 249 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:25.639 Monday through Thursday are themed puzzles. Thursdays when it gets 250 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:28.120 really tricky, things are upside down and multiple letters in 251 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.840 a square and it gets really devious. Friday and Saturday 252 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:35.440 are themeless, big open grids. They're much harder, and Sunday 253 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:37.360 goes back to being a themed puzzle. It's sort of 254 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:40.039 an extra big Thursday, but start with Monday. Everybody can 255 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.480 do it, and don't be so hard on yourself, because 256 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:48.519 the crossword constructor's goal is to fool you to some extent, 257 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:53.879 is to hold back the reveal as long as possible 258 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:55.080 so that when you get to it, you have this 259 00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:58.399 aha moment and again you have this like explosion of 260 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:00.120 oh my god, I'm smart. I figured it out. And 261 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:01.759 this is why I think there's so much in common 262 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.840 between puzzles of magic, because a good puzzle misdirects you 263 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:07.559 and you think something else is going on and there's 264 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:09.440 a twist to it, and then finally you figure it out. 265 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.440 And the clues are meant to be deceptive as well. 266 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.960 They purposely use wordplay to mess with your brain, and 267 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:19.080 you get better than when you see those patterns. When 268 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:23.080 you start to expect that. So every time I see 269 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:26.399 the word hero, I'm immediately thinking this is probably about 270 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:33.720 sub sandwich, and not every time I. And I just 271 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:35.759 learned this over time. You know, if I when I 272 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.720 see cream, for example, I immediately know the answer is trio. 273 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:41.600 Eric Clapton's group was cream. 274 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:42.279 Oh my god. 275 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.759 Right, it has nothing to do with what you put 276 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:47.799 in your coffee. So there's these quick little triggers where 277 00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:52.679 I remember it's pattern recognition. And the people that win 278 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:57.360 the crossword tournaments every year for speed right, the American 279 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:00.720 cross Puzzle Tournament in a handful of others, the people 280 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:07.200 that win those are usually math and music people. Really, 281 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:10.200 it's not a verbal thing you are writing down letters, 282 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:14.279 but it is. It's data driven. It is recall. It's 283 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:15.320 pattern recognition. 284 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:17.279 What kind of patterns are in there? 285 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.720 Well, I think it's it's not so much visual patterns. 286 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:24.320 If you see a S Senna V, then you're already 287 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:28.200 thinking Sven or Svelt or you know. Right, it's quick 288 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.879 recall from the clues, and it's not being misdirected by 289 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:36.840 that first layer that's meant to see view. It's cutting 290 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:38.919 through that and it's knowing exactly what they're getting to. 291 00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:42.360 When you're at a gathering or a cocktail party or 292 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:46.000 something and it comes up that you write crossword puzzles, 293 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.360 do you instantly have a rapport with someone if they're like, 294 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:49.279 I do it every day. 295 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:52.799 Yeah, it happens all the time, and more often than not. 296 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:57.000 It's my grandmother does it every single day in pen 297 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:00.200 she does not. No pencil allowed and I, you know, 298 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.480 I say respects. You know that's an og solver. 299 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:05.920 Do you use a pencil or a pen. 300 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:11.000 I pretty much all computer now, just for ease, though 301 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.880 for variety puzzles, cryptic puzzles and things from puzzle hunts, 302 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:17.680 which we can talk about in a second. I am 303 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:22.720 now using my iPad and the digital pencil because there's 304 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:24.880 a lot to keep track of and you're using various colors, 305 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:26.680 and things are hidden all over the place. 306 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.279 And what is a cryptic puzzle? 307 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:33.480 So a cryptic crossword is it's the British Dial and 308 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:36.480 I think it's the most sophisticated word puzzle out there 309 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:44.279 and it consists of every clue, consists of diabolical word play. 310 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:50.680 The word play, the hint that unlocks the answer is 311 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:52.839 right in front of you, hidden within that sentence. 312 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:57.000 So cryptic crosswords news to me. I had never even 313 00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.200 heard of them, and they're more popular in the UK, 314 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:03.359 where they originated. But typically the answer is hidden in 315 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:06.960 the clue. Like one example I found in a Guardian article. 316 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:13.480 The clue is cooking equipment taken back from airis I tormented? 317 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:19.279 So taken back from indicates it's backwards, and hidden in 318 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:25.240 the words aris I tormented backwards is the word rotisseri. 319 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:30.279 What I kept looking for cryptic crossword examples. I even 320 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.160 resorted to getting asked deep in the Wikipedia page for 321 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:36.000 crypto crosswords, and I just have to share this one 322 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:40.640 clue example. Okay, so the clue is very sad unfinished 323 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:45.759 story about rising smoke. What's the answer? Fuck if I know, 324 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:52.839 But very sad unfinished story about rising smoke is broken down? Lastly, 325 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:57.319 you ready for this? Very sad is the definition Unfinished 326 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:02.359 story gives TL, which is the word tale with one 327 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:07.279 letter missing because it's unfinished. Rising smoke gives the word 328 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:13.359 ragic because cigar is a smoke and this is a 329 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:18.400 down clue, so rising indicates that cigar should be written backwards. 330 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.680 Ragic about in the clue means that the letters of 331 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:27.359 tl The unfinished story should be put on either side 332 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:32.799 of ragic, giving the answer tragical. So very sad unfinished 333 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:36.160 story about rising smoke gives you tragical. And I'm like, 334 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:38.559 I have enough problems in my life. I don't need 335 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.559 cryptic crosswords, but some people love them. David later emailed 336 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:47.160 me a cryptic crossword clue example, saying Ologi's host from 337 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:51.200 a wild wild area, and after a few minutes I 338 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:56.359 experienced robust subcortical activity changes in the bilateral thalmis hippocampus 339 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:02.119 and the dopamergenic mid brain. Because the first wild indicates 340 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:05.720 it will be an anagram because it's wild, and a 341 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:11.519 wild area is an anagram for Alleyward. So cryptics the 342 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:14.680 Russian nesting dolls of puzzles. 343 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:18.400 But it's anagrams. It's words hidden between other words. It's 344 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.000 words going backward. The New York Times runs one about 345 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:24.720 a month now. And then there are brilliant, brilliant puzzle 346 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:27.160 makers that are members of the National Puzzlers League, And 347 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.599 I think Mark Halpin is my favorite puzzle designer. He 348 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.759 makes the most beautiful puzzles. This past Labor Day, I 349 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:39.000 just solved his annual Labor Day puzzle hunt. It's like 350 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:41.680 a holiday for me. I do it with my friend 351 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:46.200 Craig Mason, the screenwriter and producer, and we block out 352 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.799 the world and spend the entire long weekend solving his 353 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:52.799 puzzle hunt. And what a puzzle hunt is is it's 354 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:59.160 many puzzles, ten puzzles, say, where every single answer is 355 00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:01.440 then funneled in to the final puzzle, which is the 356 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:05.279 meta puzzle to reveal the final ultimate answer. 357 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:08.720 Oh so Mark Alvin, just a side note, has a 358 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:12.400 ton of puzzles on his website and what He's also 359 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:16.519 an accomplished stage designer and an associate professor of stage 360 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.920 design at the University of Cincinnati. Mark pick a lane 361 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:24.519 be excellent at one thing only, please leave some accomplishments 362 00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:27.359 for the rest of us. Okay, have dare, But yes, 363 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:32.920 he makes extraordinarily complex and really challenging puzzles within puzzles 364 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:37.319 within puzzles. And do you feel like those meta puzzles, 365 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.480 these mega these cryptic ones, these very hard ones. Do 366 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:45.079 you feel like simpler ones like wordle have been a 367 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:47.000 gateway for people in the last couple of years. 368 00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:50.079 Absolutely, gateway is the right term for it. I always 369 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:52.400 say that the mini crossword for the New York Times 370 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:54.759 is the gateway drug to the big one, and it's 371 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:57.599 very successful. And these things that just take a couple 372 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.599 of minutes are putting puzzle in the hands of millions 373 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:04.000 of people. I do Wordle every morning. You do. 374 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:05.960 I was wondering what you thought of it because it's 375 00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:10.519 so simple compared to other puzzles. But is there something 376 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:12.480 in that simplicity that you just can do it while 377 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:14.559 you are putting in your contact lenses or whatever, while 378 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:15.319 I'm on the toilet. 379 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.839 Yeah, it's it's It's brilliant. Josh Wardle created Wordle. He 380 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:22.720 took it. He took an old format mastermind, and there's 381 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:25.839 a few other board games, but he he made it 382 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.279 so clean and simple and digestible, and the social sharing 383 00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:33.000 of it is really what caused it to take to 384 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:34.079 spread like wildfire. 385 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:36.400 Okay, so real quick. In case you don't know this 386 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:41.400 origin story of Wordle, a software engineer named Jason Wordle 387 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.319 created this game because his partner loves word games, and 388 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:50.079 on November one, twenty twenty one, there were ninety daily users. 389 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.839 By Christmas, there were three hundred thousand, and by the 390 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:58.279 end of January twenty twenty two ten million people were 391 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:02.839 playing daily, so Ward sold wordle that month in January, 392 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.240 He's like, I'm out, I don't want to manage this 393 00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:08.119 for a few million bucks to the New York Times 394 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.480 and we all play it every day still on my family, 395 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.599 text threat and your podgram. Fancy Nancy has excelled for 396 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:19.359 years at words with friends, and naturally she kicks her 397 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:21.799 asses at word ale. Do you do the same opening 398 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:23.880 one every time or do you just think of a 399 00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:25.400 five letter word that comes in your head. 400 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:27.960 I change it because I get bored. Yeah. A lot 401 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:30.240