WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.879 Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is 2 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:09.080 not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:17.079 That they had a big sight and jealous with a guy. 4 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:24.920 Twenty twenty six has been a weird year, hasn't it. 5 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:32.240 It's barely begun man. When everyone looks at something and 6 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:35.039 half the population sees one thing and the other half 7 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:42.359 sees something completely different. We're cooked. We are done. Stick 8 00:00:42.399 --> 00:01:09.799 a fork in it. This is season thirteen, episode three, 9 00:01:09.959 --> 00:01:12.959 forty one, by the way, and it's all about trying 10 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:17.200 to figure out what's right when nothing is, you know, 11 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:45.680 kind of like twenty twenty six. It was March eighth, 12 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:50.000 twenty twenty one, in the small community of Mickleton, New Jersey. 13 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.719 Police cars swarmed the neighborhood. Flashes of blue lights started 14 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:59.879 across the living room windows. The quiet street was swallowed by. 15 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:03.640 I look out the window and I have a bunch 16 00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:06.439 of you know, police officers were out here, and when 17 00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:07.760 we see had to come out and see what the 18 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.039 commotion was about. And it wasn't good. 19 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:14.000 It wasn't good. In a community with crime rates well 20 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:17.680 below the national average, no one expected a violent crime, 21 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:22.120 let alone the murder of a senior citizen. This rare 22 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:24.400 crime would go down as the only murder in the 23 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:28.439 community for years. Never issues like this, never see anything 24 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:28.680 like this. 25 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:31.400 Everybody kind of you know, keeps themselves, the neighborhoods, really 26 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:33.319 nice people everybody. 27 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:35.520 It's just it's a shock when stuffing like this happens. 28 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:39.560 Sixty six year old Michael Debkowski was found murdered in 29 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:43.919 his laundry room. He was bludgeoned in the head, his 30 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:48.039 face masked in a sweatshirt. The only thing missing from 31 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:49.560 the home was his car. 32 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:52.439 I was really shocked. I was really upset to find 33 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:53.719 out like who it was. 34 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:56.479 Mike was a real good guy, you know. He was 35 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:57.840 the type of guy that would help you out if 36 00:02:57.879 --> 00:02:58.960 you need a hand, if you see you out in 37 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:01.719 the yard work, and always we when you go by, 38 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:04.639 always had a kind thing to say to you. Never 39 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.919 seen him, you know. Mad just just a total shock 40 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:09.080 that it happened to him. 41 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:13.360 Mike never married. Instead, he spent his time away from 42 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:18.520 work as an engineering consultant volunteering in the community. He 43 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.680 was active in his church, taught religious education, and was 44 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:25.960 a member of the Catholic fraternal organization Knights of Columbus. 45 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:29.759 He was even a big brother of America mentoring youth. 46 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.400 It's a terrible way for anybody to go. You know, 47 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:34.800 you're in your own home and you know, to be 48 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:36.960 cut down like that by yourself alone. 49 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.520 I just hope it doesn't happen again around here. That 50 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:41.680 was horrible to see. 51 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.120 It all started with a call from a woman named Carol. 52 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:48.560 She spoke with Mike multiple times a day every day. 53 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:52.000 That afternoon, at about one pm, she was talking to 54 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:56.360 Mike when his demeanor suddenly changed. He ended the call 55 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.000 saying he would call her back. She was left on 56 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:01.360 the other end of the phone wondering what was going on. 57 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:05.000 When she never heard back from him and was only 58 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.479 getting to his voicemail, she called police. The police conducted 59 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:14.280 a welfare check at his residence eighty five Myrtle Avenue. 60 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:16.720 There was no response when they knocked on the door. 61 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:19.639 They walked around the house looking through the windows for 62 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:23.519 any sign of Mike. Finally, they managed to lift the 63 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:27.519 garage door a few inches. That's when they noticed his 64 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:30.879 car was gone. They ran the plates through the system. 65 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.600 They found out that the license plate was scanned by 66 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:40.199 an automated plate reader in Camden, New Jersey, Carol told 67 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:42.920 police that Mike would only ever visit his brother, but 68 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.680 that he would take a train. As far as she knew, 69 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:50.480 he didn't have any trips planned. The police decided to 70 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:53.800 go into the home. They lifted the garage door just 71 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:58.000 enough for an officer to crawl underneath. Once in the garage, 72 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:01.879 he immediately noticed the interior door had signs of fourth entry. 73 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:05.079 On the other side of the door was the laundry room, 74 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:09.759 and on the floor was Mike in a pool of blood. 75 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:13.560 Mike put up a fight, though the struggle that ended 76 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.800 in his death had started in the kitchen, went through 77 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.000 the living room and ended up in the laundry room. 78 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:24.920 When police told Carol about Mike's death, her first question 79 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:27.879 was whether Sean Lannin had murdered him. 80 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:31.680 Breaking news the search for a person of interest in 81 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:33.240 a South Jersey murder. 82 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:36.399 We have a scary situation here in Gloucester County. What 83 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:38.680 could this guy could be anywhere? At this point police 84 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:39.560 are looking for. 85 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:43.759 Sean lannon is wanted in connection with yesterday's homicide, and 86 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:45.600 East Greenwich Township. 87 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:49.639 Investigators say he's considered absolutely armed and dangerous. 88 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.560 Yeah, this is a national manhunt right now. There's a 89 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:55.000 stolen car from South Jersey that he may be using, 90 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:58.000 a blue hon the CRV with Jersey plates. Also, they 91 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:01.279 think he was spotted at the water Rad Transportation Center, 92 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:03.720 which will likely send off alarm bells all over the 93 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:06.480 Filly area because that is the bus station right next 94 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:08.160 to the Ben Franklin Ridge. You could take a bus 95 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:09.680 in the Billi in five minutes. You could take the 96 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:11.360 river line up and down the river where you could 97 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:13.759 take the Pat Goalie speedline to Locus Street if you wanted. 98 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:18.120 The manhunt for Sean Lanin was nationwide, but he was 99 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:21.519 from New Jersey. He grew up there. He went to 100 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:24.959 high school and ran track. Nobody thought his name would 101 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:27.959 be in the news for anything like this, though. But 102 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:32.279 the reason Carol suspected Sean was that Mike had been 103 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:36.199 in Shawn's life since he was a child. Sean didn't 104 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:38.959 have a father growing up, so his mother Lynn enrolled 105 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:42.759 him in the Big Brother program. Mike became his big 106 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:44.360 brother and father figure. 107 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:48.800 His father was a career criminal I Americ in nineteen seventy. 108 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:50.399 I was a couple of years in. 109 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:52.920 I knew I did english to be married him anymore. 110 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:56.600 She explained life was so hard when Sean was young, 111 00:06:57.160 --> 00:06:59.399 and over time she came to rely on Mike. 112 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.160 Too because I was a single parent. 113 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:08.600 And I worked, so I counted on Mike to kind 114 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:10.800 of picked up the slack. We were pushed we were 115 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:14.360 just four because single women are just poor. It's just 116 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:18.079 part of the Yeah, it's just he's what. So I know, 117 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:22.480 Mike was good to him in terms of, you know, possessions, 118 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:26.959 because I couldn't. I couldn't and it was hard, and 119 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:30.680 I was grateful for Mike that the kids could have 120 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:35.680 clothes that, you know, Otherwise we shopped in goodwill. 121 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:40.519 Mike became a lifelong fixture in Sean's life, following him 122 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:44.319 into adulthood and even marriage. His in laws even knew 123 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:46.560 the man everyone called Uncle Mike. 124 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:48.600 We knew Uncle Mike. 125 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:53.399 Uncle Mike was at plenty of birthday parties and dinners, 126 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:55.639 dinners at the house, and. 127 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:57.639 He was a big brother that stayed in his life. 128 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:01.920 He was his father. He was family friend that was 129 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:05.759 like a father figure to him. I can't remember his name, 130 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:07.759 was just like, oh, uncle Mike, Uncle Mike. 131 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:11.720 Everyone who knew Uncle Mike knew him as an upstanding 132 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.879 citizen and a great man. Who devoted himself to others 133 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:20.360 rather than selfish pursuits. But years after his big brother mentorship, 134 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:25.439 when Sean grew up, he started sharing his childhood trauma 135 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:26.279 with his wife. 136 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:30.839 I knew Jen had said that he was molested when 137 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:31.600 he was a kid. 138 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:37.919 They never said uncle Mike. He never showed any dislike 139 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:42.039 of Uncle Mike. Uncle Mike was always wonderful. 140 00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:45.159 My sister told me at one point, I didn't know 141 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:47.279 it was him. That Sean had been Melissa as a kid, 142 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:50.960 had childhood, but I did not know it was him. 143 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:53.960 I didn't connect the dots there. But everything seemed normal 144 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:57.759 when we met. I met Mike. I see you know. 145 00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:59.840 I knew they were close friends. It was a father figure. 146 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:01.720 I didn't see anything out of the ordinary there. 147 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:05.279 While everyone seemed to know about Sean's childhood trauma, no 148 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:09.000 one put two and two together. It was too hard 149 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.960 to imagine that Mike, the man who gave so much 150 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:15.480 to the land and family and asked for nothing in return, 151 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:21.200 could be the one who had molested Sean. But there 152 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:25.200 was one person Sean shared more with, the longtime nanny 153 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:29.240 to his kids. Remember Sean mentioning an old score that 154 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:31.120 needed settling and Mike. 155 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.159 I've known for years about Mike. 156 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:36.279 He would never really post kids alone with Mike. 157 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:40.960 So he had mentioned sexual assault that of herd when 158 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:46.919 he was a young boy, right before his teens, up 159 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:50.039 until I mean he went off to the R and I. 160 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:52.200 He had said that was an old school that he 161 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:53.440 needed to say for Mike. 162 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:58.039 The anger he must have felt, the shame that must 163 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:02.440 have lingered with him for ye years. Two days after 164 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:06.080 the murder, on March tenth, the man hunt was over. 165 00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:09.879 He was arrested and questioned about his reasons for killing 166 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:13.879 a retired old man, the man that molested. 167 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.720 Me, his child, my big brother, big brother's big sisters, 168 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:18.840 and there the lists too. 169 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:22.559 At forty seven years old, something snapped in Sean Lannon. 170 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:26.720 He had three young kids. People who knew him say 171 00:10:27.080 --> 00:10:30.799 they were his whole world. But somewhere along the line, 172 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:34.960 something in Sean's world shifted. You could no longer live 173 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:38.440 with what he claimed Mike Debkowski did to him as 174 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:42.320 a child. He had to take control back. 175 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:47.120 Who wanted the pictures, Sir Michael wanted the pictures back. 176 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:48.519 He want to give them pictures. 177 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:52.360 I step being on March eighth, when Mike saw Sean 178 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:55.600 Lannon walking up to his driveway. He ended the call 179 00:10:55.639 --> 00:10:59.600 with Carol because he knew it couldn't be good. Mike 180 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:03.639 had been lending Sean money for years, but he never 181 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:06.720 seemed to get back on his feet. This time, Sean 182 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:11.320 didn't want money. He wanted the sexually explicit photos he 183 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:15.480 claimed Mike took of him as a kid. Sean said. 184 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:20.080 Mike denied having those photos, so he punched him in 185 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:21.120 the face a few times. 186 00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:25.360 Just give me the fucking pictures about. 187 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:29.000 It, Sean said. After a few stiff punches, Mike gave 188 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:34.519 him the pictures, but Sean wasn't done. He escalated the 189 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:38.919 situation and the two started to scuffle. At sixty six 190 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.480 years old, Mike wasn't as strong as he used to 191 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:44.360 be and quickly tried to retreat through the living room, 192 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:48.879 but Sean pursued. The laundry room connects the rest of 193 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.840 the house to the garage. Mike was trying to escape, 194 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.519 but Sean found a hammer. He struck Mike on the 195 00:11:57.559 --> 00:12:02.159 head and he collapsed to the floor. With his mission complete, 196 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:06.559 Sean locked the house and left, planning to steal Mike's car, 197 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:09.240 but when he got outside, he realized he didn't have 198 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:12.200 the keys. He had to force his way back into 199 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:15.039 the home to get the keys off of Mike's dead body. 200 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:21.080 The problem was Mike wasn't dead. He lay on the floor, 201 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:25.279 barely breathing. Sean grabbed a nearby sweatshirt and placed it 202 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:28.519 over his head so he wouldn't get covered in blood, 203 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:31.720 and swung the hammer a few more times. 204 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.600 He expired the moment today realized I had time to 205 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:44.440 finish it. It's ekscite. That's horrible too. I don't give 206 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:52.720 a fuck about meus years, that's just fine. I feel bad. 207 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:58.799 Sean took Mike's life. He called this man uncle since childhood. 208 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:03.279 He expressed remorse, but there was no emotion behind the words. 209 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:08.519 What happened to Sean that, after all of these years, 210 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:15.360 he suddenly let all this harbored aggression out. 211 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:17.919 It was it was a nice young man. He ran tracked, 212 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:22.159 he ran on cross country. He was it was fun loving. 213 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:28.240 I didn't know that he had potential sexual molestation front. 214 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:29.440 I didn't know that. 215 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.720 After his arrest, Shawn's mother, Lynne said she never knew. 216 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.759 She claimed naivete for not seeing it, but there was 217 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:43.159 a lot about Sean she didn't know, didn't see until 218 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:47.960 it was too late. Two days earlier, on March eighth, 219 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:51.559 before he was arrested. It wasn't just a national manhunt, 220 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:53.519 it was a national concern. 221 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:57.960 Police standing guard tonight at the scene of yesterday's homicide 222 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.279 on East Greenwich Township, Gloucester County, and at this hour 223 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.840 the search continues for Sean Lannon, not only for this crime, 224 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:09.559 but also in connection with a multiple killing. Herns out 225 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.159 that Lanin is also a person of interest in a 226 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:14.600 quadruple murder in New Mexico. 227 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:02.000 By the time the sun set on March, Michael Debkowski 228 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.559 was dead and the search for Sean Lannon had crossed 229 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.720 state lines. News reports painted a picture of a violent attack, 230 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.200 a desperate escape, and a suspect now tied to four 231 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:17.600 more murders in New Mexico, but the headlines didn't explain 232 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:18.639 how Sean got there. 233 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.600 And when he graduated high school he went into the 234 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.480 army for five years, he went to Costvo, which, if 235 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.519 you know the history of Kosovo, it was a violent 236 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:33.159 mass grave, the littlest bitch ethnic cleansing. 237 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:34.440 I mean, it was just like night. 238 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.240 But he didn't back. The same young man he went 239 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:39.720 over with I'm sure a lot. 240 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:40.759 Of soldiers are the same line. 241 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:44.000 They see atrocities, and I said, Sean, you need some 242 00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:45.200 of PTSD help. 243 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:47.200 You need some help with this. This is too much. 244 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:51.120 Sean was never the same after his tour in Kosovo, 245 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:55.879 lingering mental scars added to his already damaged mental health. 246 00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:59.759 It seemed his whole perspective on life had shifted. 247 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.799 He divorced his first wife. When he came home, he 248 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.159 told me there could be no God because of what 249 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:07.600 he saw. 250 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.159 What he saw in combat took a toll on Sean. 251 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:15.039 But it wasn't long before the old Sean started to 252 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:15.759 shine through. 253 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:18.320 It was in McDonald's one day and he met a 254 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.720 girl named Liz. They were a whole other seven years together. 255 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:27.519 For a short time, Sean seemed content, but it wouldn't last. 256 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:30.879 It was while he was with Liz that he met 257 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:31.840 Jennifer Whitman. 258 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:34.399 I mean, he met probably about nine years ago. She 259 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:39.159 had been married at that point and from her first husband. 260 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:42.080 She was in her home nurse and that's how they met. 261 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:45.200 She was in there working and that's how they met. 262 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.159 It wasn't long after jen started working as an in 263 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.200 home nurse for Shawn and Liz At. A relationship developed 264 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:54.600 and they were having a secret, you know, a secret 265 00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:57.879 affair at that point, which eventually came out. 266 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:00.919 She was married to somebody else. They had an affair 267 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:06.240 and then just they were just like you know, starcross 268 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.599 the lovers and everything was like wonderful and like them. 269 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.599 At that point, she lost her first husband. They got together. 270 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:17.519 Both Sean and Jen were already married, but that didn't 271 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.160 seem to matter. They're fair turned into a full fledged 272 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:24.079 relationship and then they got married. 273 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.440 She went off for Sewan did, but they did. They 274 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.559 got married in March of twenty thirteen. None of us 275 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:32.359 were there. We found out through Facebook. 276 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.160 Their relationship blossomed and it wasn't long before they welcomed 277 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:40.440 their first child into the world, a little girl. About 278 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.960 a year later, they had a second little girl. Not 279 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.119 long after that, Jen was pregnant again, this time with 280 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:51.079 a boy. From the outside, everything was perfect. 281 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.640 He had a decent job. You know, he was good 282 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:54.319 at his job. 283 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:58.200 He enjoyed his job, he enjoyed the you know, being 284 00:17:58.279 --> 00:17:59.079 able to provide. 285 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:03.559 He liked Saul was a hard worker. He was an 286 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.759 excellent dad. He loved Jen and he did anything for Jen. 287 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:09.480 I mean. 288 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:11.839 Through the years, they seemed to be okay. 289 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.960 But behind the scenes, the couple was struggling. 290 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:16.799 On some level. 291 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:19.440 She wanted that picture of the because he grew up 292 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:22.079 in church and you know, everybody wants to be married 293 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:24.839 and you know, have that happy little house with the 294 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:29.079 white picket fens and kids running around. She wanted to 295 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:33.440 put on a side that she was all together and 296 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:38.400 and she she could maintain that for a while until 297 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.920 the need for you know, drugs. 298 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:42.160 To go work. 299 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:45.000 Jen started to slip into drug addiction. 300 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:48.839 Jen was having some troubles with prescription drugs. She hurt 301 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.640 her back before she left her first husband, and she 302 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:53.279 was on some pain pillows for her back. 303 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:57.960 It started slowly at first, but then escalated quickly. She 304 00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:01.240 lost her nursing license because of her addiction and sank 305 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:05.400 deeper into it. Soon there were issues that couldn't be 306 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.720 missed even through the facade of the perfect life. 307 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:09.799 And now. 308 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.920 The first time dyfus was called in New Jersey was 309 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.160 because she was violent. She was on the drugs. She 310 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:21.000 was violent and she threw like barb chairs at them 311 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:22.480 and the babysitter got bad. 312 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:28.960 Babysitter called them diffus as it's referred to or DYFS 313 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.759 stands for the Division of Youth and Family Services in 314 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:33.440 New Jersey. 315 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.279 Then we had to have protection plans in place. 316 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:42.440 So was Manson on the protection plan, and she couldn't 317 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.079 be left alone with the kids on superpest. 318 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.960 Gen's addiction only got worse. 319 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.720 In twenty sixteen, she had a heroin overdose. 320 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:54.640 Dyphus took the. 321 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:56.920 Kids in twenty seventeen. 322 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:57.559 I got the. 323 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:02.240 Call that night, shown says, come home, they're taking the kids. 324 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:03.240 I got them home. 325 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.400 They bade fast him one house and so we had 326 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:09.480 the kids for the next forty nine days. 327 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.599 While she was. 328 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:14.880 Supposed to be getting herself together, Sean was getting therapy. 329 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:19.119 And that was their life, a cycle of Jen strung 330 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:22.839 out on opiates, going to rehab, getting out, and eventually 331 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.720 relapsing again, all the while they were trying to convince 332 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:32.000 DYFS that the kids weren't in danger. Sean worked at 333 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.960 an oil refinery, putting in a lot of hours. Sometimes 334 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.519 he would be gone for weeks at a time, leaving 335 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.319 the kids with Jen. This led to a lot of 336 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:47.720 calls to DYFS. Needless to say, they weren't convinced, but 337 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.079 in late twenty seventeen, Sean got an opportunity within his company. 338 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.640 He was offered another job in New Mexico to get. 339 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:58.319 Ready to move to Mexico about three four years ago. 340 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:00.599 I think it was I'm sure they looked at it 341 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:04.000 as a fresh start in a new state. Sean moved 342 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.720 to New Mexico with the kids and Jen returned to rehab. 343 00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:10.480 You know, she got out of rehab. She came back, 344 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:13.559 He divorces her. 345 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:17.680 He takes her to you know, DIYFIS and get through 346 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.920 parental rights taken away. 347 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.279 She didn't really deserve any rights. They were divorced just 348 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.599 by paper. They were still together as a husband and wife. 349 00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:30.200 They never left each other only the time that Jen 350 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.359 was in rehab for three or four. 351 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:36.799 Months, so I knew about it. I didn't know why. Well, 352 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:42.079 I think from what I understood, it was that they 353 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:46.720 ran to lose custody of the kids if Dick stayed marriage. 354 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.519 So they got worse, so Sean could hold full costoy 355 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:53.079 to the kids and the kids would be safe, so 356 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:55.759 they won't lose because j Chen was going through her 357 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:56.480 drug problem. 358 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.440 Of course, Jen was still there. She lived the house 359 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.599 with Sean and the kids. She had no rights on paper, 360 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:06.759 but in reality, when Sean wasn't home, she had full 361 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:11.160 responsibility for their three small children. Taking care of her 362 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.079 kids was difficult for Jen. She often chose her addiction 363 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.160 over her children. Then Sean got sick. 364 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:22.440 I wasn't really living nanny in the past couple of years. 365 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.319 But when Sean got diagnosed with cancer, I was there 366 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.599 a lot. I want to say it's his lungs. I 367 00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:32.880 think it's mesophelioma. I'm not sure. I know he's been 368 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:34.640 saying he was seeing a doctor. I used to take 369 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.440 on the treatments every day up until October when he 370 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:38.440 was real bad. 371 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.319 When he first started getting female he used to have 372 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:44.119 to be like just walked to the bathroom and everything, 373 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:45.359 like he could barely stand up. 374 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.079 So I would stay there. A lot of times I 375 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:48.759 didn't stay there. 376 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:53.400 Sean was so sick that he was physically wrecked. Jen 377 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:58.119 wasn't any help, so they had to hire a nanny 378 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:01.680 to help take care of the kids. Then Sean lost 379 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.000 his job because of all the time off. The little 380 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.759 money they had started to dwindle fast, and the problems 381 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:10.759 with Jen got worse. 382 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:15.079 Jen had run off with somebody after had an argument 383 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.319 that she hit him with a frying pain and he 384 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:21.200 was bruised up and marked up from that, and then 385 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:25.359 she ran off with some guy that went to Arizona. 386 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:30.240 That they had a big fight and Jen left with 387 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:30.640 a guy. 388 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:35.160 According to Sean, Jen abandoned her family at their lowest point. 389 00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:38.759 It's unlike my daughter to go two weeks without calling us, 390 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:43.200 then three weeks. It's unlike my daughter not calling us 391 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:46.279 or texting us three weeks January. 392 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.559 February moved forward talk to my parents about finally missing 393 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.079 Presson report because Sean wasn't really communicating to my parents 394 00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:57.000 as much. He gave us a little information, and all 395 00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.319 of a sudden, once we started pushing the police, it 396 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:01.680 seemed like that's where you started talking. You know, I 397 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:03.880 saw her two weeks ago, where she only comes around 398 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.039 for money. You know, I'll see her soon. I mean 399 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:09.559 even said that he saw her in town, and I 400 00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:13.759 just I just kept saying, this guy, Uh, something doesn't 401 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:14.200