Speaker 1: This is author Dick Frank, author of More Than a Warrior,
Speaker 1: and you're listening to Doctor Sky Experience on Talk Radio
Speaker 1: seventy seven WABC.
Speaker 2: And welcome back to the Doctor Skuy Experience heard proudly
Speaker 2: and of course all over the nation, all over the world,
Speaker 2: and even out into the cosmos on Talk Radio seventy
Speaker 2: seven w ABC. We like to call it the crown
Speaker 2: Jewel of radio, the Iconic seventy seven and Talk Radio WABC.
Speaker 2: As we continue to talk about these great subject matters,
Speaker 2: normally the subjects of astronomy, space, aviation, and weather. Obviously,
Speaker 2: folks with my own mill military service, we talked proudly
Speaker 2: about American exceptionalism and the story of truth justice in
Speaker 2: the American way. And today, without exception, a very special
Speaker 2: guest and author. In just a moment, we'll be introducing
Speaker 2: Dick Frank, an author of a book called More Than
Speaker 2: a Warrior, a most fascinating story and I think many
Speaker 2: out there will certainly appreciate. But before we introduce our
Speaker 2: special guests, I'd like to read a little bit from
Speaker 2: the back cover of his book, More Than a Warrior,
Speaker 2: And our producer today is doctor d We appreciate his
Speaker 2: talents putting all this together so you can hear the
Speaker 2: Doctor Sky experience split it under top secret Green Beret
Speaker 2: Team leader Sergeant Howard up Church appeared in a Communist
Speaker 2: uniform in front of his hooch at Triple C the
Speaker 2: CIA is super serious and secret Macvisong Special Operations Group
Speaker 2: camp outside Contum City, South Vietnam. He helped design the
Speaker 2: logo that is very famous for that special group mac
Speaker 2: v SAG. Under the auspices of that shield, a small
Speaker 2: select group of men fought for the CIA in Southeast
Speaker 2: Asia Agency for the Agency, but it was never just
Speaker 2: a Vietnam war is. Their black operations spilled over into
Speaker 2: half of a dozen other countries near and farm extraordinary
Speaker 2: jungle fighters and spies. Their suicidal missions required them to
Speaker 2: do things that no humans should have to do to
Speaker 2: other humans. One man, Sergeant Upchurch, broke away for two
Speaker 2: years led his own army Montagnard Warriors, irrespective of the
Speaker 2: rest of the world's plans, being forced and coaxed back
Speaker 2: into the CIA bowl. With that, let's introduce our special guests,
Speaker 2: Dick Frank, who knew this man is the backstory, of
Speaker 2: course for Marlon Brando, who appears in the movie the
Speaker 2: epic Francis Bord Coppola's Apocalypse. Now, well, good afternoon, Deck,
Speaker 2: thanks for being with us.
Speaker 1: Nice to me here, doctor Ska.
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate your time. So let's start from the beginning.
Speaker 2: How did you get to meet this sergeant and tell
Speaker 2: us this reason that you wrote this four hundred and
Speaker 2: some page book, because obviously it seems like about time
Speaker 2: Americans knew what that Special Operations Group did in Vietnam.
Speaker 1: Well, there, you're right there. Well, when my wife died, Sally,
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one, I went to U to Linguish CDB, Texas,
Speaker 1: that's in them. I'm in Texas, that's a small dining
Speaker 1: mining dialing mining island. And I met Howard Upchurch. He
Speaker 1: was retired a few years from SAD Special Operations Group,
Speaker 1: and h he was on the CDB ports with hundreds
Speaker 1: of people around him and telling his war stories, And
Speaker 1: I said, who the heck you that guy? It took
Speaker 1: me two hours, took so many people around him listening
Speaker 1: to him, and I was hooked in three minutes. I
Speaker 1: would like the rest of him, I mean in Howard
Speaker 1: was kept on going about all his messadventures around the world.
Speaker 1: You know, and he was mainly he was talking about
Speaker 1: his Mountayard Warriors. He loved his Mountain North Warriors. Third,
Speaker 1: about fifteen year old, I'm part of like American Indians.
Speaker 1: But I was shocked, you know, fifteen years old in
Speaker 1: the that's where his team there's about two or three Americans.
Speaker 1: When I say Americans, I'm talking about FOG Special Operation
Speaker 1: Group that they're all from the CIA anyway, Paris, that
Speaker 1: we could not do anything and in this triple panel
Speaker 1: beach Jungle without these Mountain Yard Warriors. And I could
Speaker 1: go on and on, but he he had had his dashinating.
Speaker 1: Why did I write the book? Because I knew that
Speaker 1: his story shouldn't be I mean, stories shouldn't be told
Speaker 1: around the world. I was fascinated. If it's the most
Speaker 1: incredible thing I've seen anybody, right, And he was a
Speaker 1: humorous and very very serious and he had a whole
Speaker 1: and fascinated, enthralled as I call it.
Speaker 2: Well, Dick, this is a fascinating interview that we're going
Speaker 2: to have here today on the Doctor Sky Experience talking
Speaker 2: about American exceptionalism and some of the things right or
Speaker 2: wrong that happened during the Vietnam War. And of course
Speaker 2: everybody out there will of course formulate their opinion on
Speaker 2: all the things that we're saying here. But I want
Speaker 2: to go back in time here to describe a little
Speaker 2: bit about mac Visog Military Assistance Command. He did covert
Speaker 2: and unconventional warfare. They operated, as you know, in Vietnam, Laos,
Speaker 2: and Cambodia starting January fourth and twenty fourth, I should say,
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty fourth through nineteen seventy two. Psychological warfare was
Speaker 2: also part.
Speaker 1: Of what they did.
Speaker 2: And now today they've been replaced by something called Jaysok
Speaker 2: Joint Special Operations Command after the Saturanian hostage rescue mission
Speaker 2: that happened many many years ago. As you know, General WILLIAMS. Warland,
Speaker 2: he really had no authority outside of South Vietnam. So
Speaker 2: what I want to ask you is this is a
Speaker 2: very select group. So you're talking here about this gentleman,
Speaker 2: we're talking about Howard up Church, Sergeant Howard up Church.
Speaker 2: Did he tell you how we got involved in this organization?
Speaker 2: I mean, they have to pick these people. I'm sure
Speaker 2: you know they're just not anybody or any regular soldier.
Speaker 2: They're kind of special.
Speaker 1: Talk about how they picked these people okay, Well, you know,
Speaker 1: he was a sixteen year old marine in Korea. Then
Speaker 1: he went into the regular army. And in the regular army,
Speaker 1: well he was a you know, I'm talking about fifty
Speaker 1: years ago, twenty some years ago in h he I'm
Speaker 1: trying to think. Anyway, he had the Soldier of the
Speaker 1: Year award in the once seventy third don't quote me
Speaker 1: on that, but anyway, he he was an exceptional soldier,
Speaker 1: you know, for eighteen thousand people or whatever that was
Speaker 1: on the base. He was number one, you know with
Speaker 1: this awards. And uh So, anyway, saw the CIA. It's
Speaker 1: the CIA organization. They they they picked him out and
Speaker 1: the well, I asked Howard by myself. He said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, Nick, they're looking for people like me. I said,
Speaker 1: what do you mean like you? Howard? He said, he said,
Speaker 1: I hate to talk about now, but Howard was a
Speaker 1: was a incredibly god it's uh killer, I can put
Speaker 1: it just kindly. And he's also very like a fight
Speaker 1: you know, uh for I'm not getting it very well,
Speaker 1: but anyway, he would driven. Anyway, he was what the
Speaker 1: CIA was looking for. It's like if you could read
Speaker 1: the book and you could, I could tell you explain
Speaker 1: it everything.
Speaker 2: He was, well, I want people, Dick to read the book,
Speaker 2: and I want to remind people before we continue that
Speaker 2: your website is more than a warrior dot com. And
Speaker 2: this is fascinating today as we talk here on the
Speaker 2: Doctor Sky experience, Chick. Before we go further with the
Speaker 2: Colonel and of course the story of the Master Sergeant
Speaker 2: and Sergeant Howard Upchurch, I want to ask you talk
Speaker 2: about your military career too, so we can find out
Speaker 2: a little bit more about you.
Speaker 1: Who's Dick. That's that's that's that's funny too, because I
Speaker 1: told you Howard that, you know, I just got out
Speaker 1: of in the I mean when I met him, you know,
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one and he's retired. And I said, Howard,
Speaker 1: I don't like to talk about my experiences. You know,
Speaker 1: I was a sailors right during the Korean War. And
Speaker 1: I said, I don't like to talk about my experience,
Speaker 1: but but I will tell you, Howard, I said, I
Speaker 1: bought the Battle of the River Era, then the war
Speaker 1: bikinis in the Mediterranean, my low my homeport was Tom's, France,
Speaker 1: where the Hollywood stars go and everything. You know, Howard
Speaker 1: it har I said, that's a good duty day.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing. But when you meet this man, I mean,
Speaker 2: this is interesting. I can I ask you when you're
Speaker 2: talking about study butt Texas, where is that on the map?
Speaker 2: So people understand you kind of want to I want
Speaker 2: to use the word. And I hope you're not offended.
Speaker 2: You became more of like a recluse, sadly after your
Speaker 2: loving wife had passed away. But is this location study
Speaker 2: but in Texas?
Speaker 1: I don't call I'm gray jarious and I'm not a recluse.
Speaker 1: You know I was a dropout. You know it's it's
Speaker 1: a big the National Park Texas on the Rio Grand
Speaker 1: River in southwest Texas. In this seedy but or two language,
Speaker 1: there's there's animus. I mean there's they're really supposed to
Speaker 1: get a few miles apart. It's a it's a gorgeous,
Speaker 1: beautiful mountain desert country if you like mountain desert. I
Speaker 1: mean it's all. When I was there in nineteen fifty
Speaker 1: four after the Navy, there was only about seven people there.
Speaker 1: Now it's full of still dropouts. I call it this
Speaker 1: h of this anyway, it's full of a draffouts and
Speaker 1: the skitties and everything, But at least it was when
Speaker 1: I was there, you know, in so it's very close
Speaker 1: to Big Beg National Park. Yes, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: But Dick, as we're doing this interview today on the
Speaker 2: Notor Sky Experience heard probably here on talk radio seventy
Speaker 2: seven w ABC, as we like to say, Dick, we
Speaker 2: broadcast out of New York, around the nation, around the world,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure even out into the cosmos. Dick, you're
Speaker 2: what ninety two years young? Am I correct on that?
Speaker 2: What's the secret to being ninety two years young?
Speaker 1: Tell us? Oh, I'll tell you it's it's organic carrocust
Speaker 1: and white Russians. I'm joking. I know, No, I was.
Speaker 1: I was always. I was always a help stuff because
Speaker 1: I was a concentration camp, Dick. And when I was
Speaker 1: very young, you know, so I always well, you know,
Speaker 1: I always I got this. I ended up eating the
Speaker 1: organic vegetables and in all that kind of stuff. My
Speaker 1: wife was spurious at me when I first met her.
Speaker 1: He didn't eat white fries or nothing. But finally he should.
Speaker 1: Finally he realized, you know that I was right, and
Speaker 1: he sa. He died at forty six with the brain tumor,
Speaker 1: but he was beautiful still more beautiful, insight and everything,
Speaker 1: but he became a health stuff like me. Now I'm
Speaker 1: toiled off my table all that stuff. I just my
Speaker 1: whole My whole problem is I ate too much ice
Speaker 1: cream and talk to chip cooking. So there you go.
Speaker 2: You keep eating ice cream, bitch, because let me tell
Speaker 2: yourself that I hope I make it to ninety two years.
Speaker 2: And the story going about to here is he yeah,
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 1: Well, I just don't say I do a little bit
Speaker 1: of yoga exercises every morning, because I said, well, when
Speaker 1: I was very young, I said, what can I keep doing?
Speaker 1: Because most people, you know, they might stole them else
Speaker 1: up and everything, and then they let themself go when
Speaker 1: they gets the old age. I always say, you can't
Speaker 1: let gravities get you. So I do a little yoga
Speaker 1: exercise every morning, and then I pray to God for
Speaker 1: Sally my prayer, and then then I and then I
Speaker 1: you know, I'm saying for my book. You know, then
Speaker 1: I act me what I do. I'm working on my
Speaker 1: cover letters all the time and send it off if
Speaker 1: like that's.
Speaker 2: What I just well, Dick, your book is over four
Speaker 2: hundred pages long, and it goes through so many different
Speaker 2: audio cancent interviews that you did. You put over two
Speaker 2: hundred audio cassette tapes together. But now looks good to
Speaker 2: the meat of the story here, obviously we're talking about
Speaker 2: a man's sergeant, Howard up Church. Now we find out
Speaker 2: that there's this movie that comes out August fifteenth, nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy nine, and I'm sure everybody in the house and
Speaker 2: hopefully everybody listening to the sky experience as seen Francis
Speaker 2: word Gobela's epic movie of course, Apocalypse Now, in which
Speaker 2: we find out that this Colonel Kertz played by Marlon Brando,
Speaker 2: one of the most famous actors of all time. The movie,
Speaker 2: and I'm going back in my own notes here, was
Speaker 2: not considered to be very popular when it first came out.
Speaker 2: They actually had five dollars seats in Los Angeles when
Speaker 2: it first came out. It was exhibited and performed and
Speaker 2: displayed in three theaters at the time. But he comes
Speaker 2: from a novella, and I want you to talk about
Speaker 2: this the Heart of Darkness where they get Apocalypse Now
Speaker 2: from an eighteen ninety nine Joseph Conrad writes this epic novella.
Speaker 2: So what I'm trying to get from you? Is you
Speaker 2: believe very strongly because you write the whole book about
Speaker 2: Sergeant Howard Upchurch. How is he the role model for
Speaker 2: this particular colonel who is Marlon Brando? How did he
Speaker 2: come to tell you that that's an interesting story? Please
Speaker 2: please tell us I And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked me, because I was going to
Speaker 1: tell you that everything you never wanted to know about
Speaker 1: next front for the friend who's going to tell you anyway?
Speaker 1: So it so. In fact, I was on the internet
Speaker 1: just a while ago and I pulled up this is
Speaker 1: all about the populus now in Marlon brandw and in
Speaker 1: Colonel David Hackworth. Uh he diedn't know about sixteen years ago.
Speaker 1: I was watching him on TV and he he was
Speaker 1: so erroga. I said, God almighty, you know. And he
Speaker 1: was on those for a specialists for terrorism, you know,
Speaker 1: I think me anyway, So I called him up. I
Speaker 1: got a hold of him and uh and talked to him,
Speaker 1: you know, and he in fact, I got the fans,
Speaker 1: I got the email to the emails. He said, well, Dick,
Speaker 1: I asked him. I told him, I said, I have
Speaker 1: hoired up church. He's a role model for Apostous now
Speaker 1: and uh David Hackman said, I don't have my email
Speaker 1: right from in front of me, but basically he said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, Frances word Cope was contacting me, and he said, uh,
Speaker 1: he wanted me to be an advisor for a Poculus now,
Speaker 1: especially uh Marlon Brando in uh halfworth halfworth, he wrote,
Speaker 1: I try to write to any good when I'm trying
Speaker 1: to promote somebody, you know. But he was writing bad
Speaker 1: English and everything. But he's an author, so you you know,
Speaker 1: he's got some books up and and uh anyway, Hackworth
Speaker 1: Grot He's wrote and I'll tell you and everything he said. Uh,
Speaker 1: he said, uh, I told Frances work Cope. He said,
Speaker 1: I just got out of the service, and he said,
Speaker 1: all I want to do now is uh drag and
Speaker 1: lay of women. No, no, holy, he said, Actually he
Speaker 1: said drugs. I hate this sad now for the person
Speaker 1: he's kidding, he's he's dead and everything. I just pulled
Speaker 1: it up just for reference because I knew I was
Speaker 1: on talking to you. He said, all I wanted you
Speaker 1: is drugs and make the women. So he drove it down. Okay,
Speaker 1: well anyway, Oh, I forgot to tell you that the
Speaker 1: main thing. But he said, uh, he said, oh popples,
Speaker 1: Now I wasn't I just powered up Church said it
Speaker 1: was all of us. He said, he said, uh, resist
Speaker 1: for cope and just compiled it from a little bit
Speaker 1: from heart and darkness in the in the other veterans,
Speaker 1: you know. And I said, he said, if it wasn't
Speaker 1: just he said, it wasn't, uh just powered up Church.
Speaker 1: I said, uh, let me ask you something, David. I said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, was you and Sock Special Operation Group? He
Speaker 1: said no, I was, well, so he didn't know Howard.
Speaker 1: I talked to Howard over our kicking table for ten years.
Speaker 1: He said, these people don't know. It's so sacred and
Speaker 1: uh well he had no idea so all these ten years,
Speaker 1: but I said, Rell, Howard, I asked all these questions,
Speaker 1: and I'm very objective and I researched and everything. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of people to say this. He was a
Speaker 1: here so he was apo. I mean a Smarlow bread.
Speaker 1: Now I could sell, you know, but it was Howard, Wow,
Speaker 1: you know what I want to My book was full
Speaker 1: of explaining that I'm saying because I know people, because
Speaker 1: I know people want to.
Speaker 2: Know that, oh you've met, and I want people to
Speaker 2: read the book. But what I want to do just
Speaker 2: to refresh people's memories just in case they're not really
Speaker 2: fluent in the nineteen seventy nine epic Apocalypse Now movie.
Speaker 2: We're now going to hear the trailer from this particular
Speaker 2: movie because I remember Dick when I first thought, I
Speaker 2: was in Hackenstack, New Jersey, at what we call the
Speaker 2: Oratani Theater, which was downtown. If we have listeners of
Speaker 2: course from WABC on Radio seventy seven. I got into
Speaker 2: the see the movie and I was kind of shocked.
Speaker 2: But we're going to hear that right now to bring
Speaker 2: back the story of Apocalypse Now in the connection that
Speaker 2: you assert here in the movie and the book that
Speaker 2: is well documented that the role model for Marlon Brando,
Speaker 2: Captain Colonel Kurtz is obviously Sergeant Howard up Church.
Speaker 1: So here we go. You've heard of Colonel Walter E. Kurtz.
Speaker 3: Your mission is to terminate the Colonel's command.
Speaker 4: Jeminy, terminate its extreme prejudice.
Speaker 5: I love the spell of Black Palm in the morning.
Speaker 6: Very obviously he is gone, and say this is the
Speaker 6: Uh my only Frisia you will assesss Lee and a soldier.
Speaker 5: That you come out.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's amazing. But I want to get back to
Speaker 2: this particular story of about this gentleman that you've interviewed.
Speaker 2: He passed away in nineteen ninety nine, so you're probably
Speaker 2: one of the only people alive. That's the reason for
Speaker 2: your book that has all this documentation. So people need
Speaker 2: to look at these vignettes about what fifty two chapters
Speaker 2: in here of information about what it was like to
Speaker 2: be in mac VisAD and this particular man. But I
Speaker 2: got to ask you too, talk about where these Montagnard
Speaker 2: warriors were. Where was this happening. Was this in Cambodia?
Speaker 2: Was this in Laos? Because we weren't supposed to be
Speaker 2: other than in Vietnam.
Speaker 1: I guess correct that doth tunning because he was in Vietnam.
Speaker 1: It was in Laos, It was in Cambodia, all every place.
Speaker 1: Uh Howard Howard and General Westmoreon, which was a confidant
Speaker 1: of Howard, General Westmoreon Howard, that was his friend, General Westmoreland.
Speaker 1: Westmoreland got Howard. I was so many troubles you wouldn't
Speaker 1: believe anyway. But the Moneyard Warriors was in the uh
Speaker 1: basically they was in Thailand. And uh, I mean, like
Speaker 1: I say, how I couldn't Howard that I could not
Speaker 1: do anything without my Mountain Yard Warriors. But I mean
Speaker 1: when he was in h his base camp was in Cambo,
Speaker 1: I mean Vietnam, tomtoon Vietnam, and he could a moment's
Speaker 1: notice that c I could send him off to another
Speaker 1: mission around the world, like in Lebanon or or Turkey whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not just Vietnam. That's try to tell
Speaker 1: the people that it's you know, power was that's published there.
Speaker 1: The most elite published it for CIA for many years.
Speaker 2: Yes, Wow, the story gets more interesting. But I go,
Speaker 2: well that I want you to share from the Annals
Speaker 2: of History again that has a lot to do with
Speaker 2: President Lyndon Johnson. And I'm reading here from your notes.
Speaker 2: Unlike the Congressional Medal of Honor winners like York and Murphy,
Speaker 2: Howard blew his Medal of Honor in a wild rant
Speaker 2: against President Lyndon Johnson in a hotel ballroom before he
Speaker 2: was to receive it in front of the nation. Talk
Speaker 2: about that, because this guy has the nerves of Steel.
Speaker 2: So tell us what happened there with President Johnson in
Speaker 2: your words, Oh, I remembered it perfectly.
Speaker 1: Most of the ninety percent of my stuff in my book.
Speaker 1: It's hours worse. I got to struct two hundred audio
Speaker 1: concept taste, and I just took it from Howard, you know,
Speaker 1: because I think I'm just an average writer and everything.
Speaker 1: I'm not best for nothing, you know. But anyway, I
Speaker 1: got the people interested because they're listening to Howard in
Speaker 1: the story. Howard said, I can't use vulgarity for you.
Speaker 2: But Howard said, give as SEBASTI can on the other side.
Speaker 1: There you go. Well, Howard said, okay, I'll tell you
Speaker 1: something I didn't know. And he said, Dick, nobody nobody
Speaker 1: goes up to see the president for Congressional Medal of Honor.
Speaker 1: They always have to his buddies, so when he gets
Speaker 1: so drunk and everything, they can straighten them out to
Speaker 1: see the president. You know. He said that. He said,
Speaker 1: you know, I was so well, I was so teed
Speaker 1: off of the President of the United States. He said,
Speaker 1: I went at this ballroom the night before I was
Speaker 1: supposed to go to screw from the Nations to us
Speaker 1: from Lyndon Johnson and Lennon john Howard's from Texas for Alston, Texas,
Speaker 1: Lennon Johnson's from Texas right and Lennon Johnson with the
Speaker 1: secret sirstman walked over to this ballroom that they wanted
Speaker 1: to fall in next the night before and he said, uh,
Speaker 1: he said, uh uh starting up church. I'm I would
Speaker 1: just want to talk to a fellow Texans. And Howard's
Speaker 1: got spirit. Howard is a small guy five for day,
Speaker 1: you know, and blue eyes you ever see the incredible
Speaker 1: and intelligent blue eyes. But anyway, Howard's got up halfway
Speaker 1: up from the chart. His buddy grabbed a hold of
Speaker 1: it and he tall. He said, just Lendon and Johnson said,
Speaker 1: I'm a little and ragged and I have no fear.
Speaker 1: I know I'm not wanted, but I'm blah blah here,
Speaker 1: uh you know, f here. And that what happened. Ahead,
Speaker 1: let it content because uh oh, thank you, thank you
Speaker 1: up kirt, thank you sargeant. And he walked away. But
Speaker 1: he was afraid. I so they exposed all the misdeeds
Speaker 1: the CIA and everything. You know.
Speaker 2: Wow, So he was a man that could write. He
Speaker 2: was a man that was untamed. I mean, he just
Speaker 2: tell them matter who the hell it was, whether.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, say when uh General west Morlan got him
Speaker 1: out of so many troubles you won't believe.
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about something else in the time we
Speaker 2: have here your book again. Just yet, these folks, you're
Speaker 2: just curious. Who are we listening to today and speaking with?
Speaker 2: Were speaking with author Dick Frank. He himself and maybe
Speaker 2: veteran spent an amazing amount of time with the gentleman
Speaker 2: whose name is Sergeant Howard up Church. Who is he
Speaker 2: in the top secret organization? On his mac d song
Speaker 2: he a team of military operators were in places that
Speaker 2: America said they weren't and shouldn't be and whatever they
Speaker 2: operated in Vietnam laus Cambodia starting in January January twenty fourth,
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four, through nineteen seventy two, covert, unconventional warfare,
Speaker 2: psychological warfare. Dick has over two hundred audio kits. That
Speaker 2: interview is in his book entitled More Than a Warrior,
Speaker 2: with thirty one photos well documented. Why are we talking
Speaker 2: about this because, in our author's opinion, Dick Frank, this
Speaker 2: particular individual, Sergeant Howard Upchurch, is the role model for
Speaker 2: Francis torn Popola's movie Apocalypse Now, in which Colonel Kurtz
Speaker 2: is played by the famous actor Marlon Brando. That is
Speaker 2: just totally incredible. But now what we're going to hear is,
Speaker 2: let's talk a little bit about what this particular model
Speaker 2: and this particular individual as we talk about Marlon Brando
Speaker 2: Colonel Kurtz. Here's an audio clip from the movie describing
Speaker 2: Colonel Kurtz describing the horrors of war as he basically
Speaker 2: had his own little organization in an area that America
Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to be. So here we go.
Speaker 4: He said, what in the future can we do to
Speaker 4: vent such as this?
Speaker 2: That's what I told about the passenger scream.
Speaker 1: We got the rest ball in the day.
Speaker 2: That day's a ride of pride to read and write
Speaker 2: before he could become a presper of our glorious fate.
Speaker 5: It's the same day.
Speaker 4: They should clothe.
Speaker 1: All the factors that makes period.
Speaker 5: There is not one last thought a ride.
Speaker 1: In the world that goes a drop down ran about
Speaker 1: bag about blood, No, well, the path of the baby.
Speaker 2: I have a bad expert.
Speaker 4: If the generals back in the train could see what
Speaker 4: I saw, would they still want.
Speaker 5: Me to kill him more.
Speaker 4: Than ever, probably, And what would his people back home
Speaker 4: want if they ever learned just how far from them
Speaker 4: he'd really gone. He broke from them, and then he
Speaker 4: broke from himself. I'd never seen a man so broken
Speaker 4: up and ripped apart.
Speaker 3: I've seen the horrors horders that you've seen that you
Speaker 3: have no right to call me and murderer. You have
Speaker 3: a right to kill me. You have a right to
Speaker 3: do that, but you have no right to judge me.
Speaker 3: It's impossible through words.
Speaker 6: To describe what is necessary to those.
Speaker 1: Who do not know.
Speaker 6: What horror means. Horror. Horror has a face, and you
Speaker 6: must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror
Speaker 6: are your friends. If they are not, then they are
Speaker 6: enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies.
Speaker 2: So, Dick, that's totally amazing. I mean the connection here
Speaker 2: without a doubt. I mean, you have no doubt that
Speaker 2: this is the man who is the person as far
Speaker 2: as the namesake of our Colonel Kurts Marlon Brandall in
Speaker 2: this epic apocalypse. Now tell us more about this. Your
Speaker 2: research is very deep.
Speaker 1: Okay, You're right, I have absolutely no doubt you know
Speaker 1: what I've seen a popas now maybe uh, I haven't
Speaker 1: seen it in the last sixteen twenty years, but uh,
Speaker 1: I was listening to it one time. This is after
Speaker 1: uh maybe fifteen twenty years ago, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden they making fog. I said, what I forgot it
Speaker 1: somewhere front of the book and you know, and I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't. They have all this kind of bandbe music
Speaker 1: and everything. You can't listen to him, And all of
Speaker 1: a sudden they just in one sense, they just happen
Speaker 1: to mention dog. I said, there it is. There's dog,
Speaker 1: you know, and that at that time, you know, nobody
Speaker 1: knew what dog is. And really really is that time?
Speaker 1: You know, and they still don't, you know? They uh anyway,
Speaker 1: and I, uh, oh, yeah, there's then there's another thing
Speaker 1: and I and I was listening to listened to the Howard,
Speaker 1: I mean more than more than I'm anyway, populus now,
Speaker 1: he said, Uh, I wasn't listen to a friend of mine.
Speaker 1: He wanted to listen to it, uh because of Howard. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we just listened to Populace now and towards the end,
Speaker 1: he said, And then the Colonel Kurt uh Warna, Colonel
Speaker 1: Kurt went from those one seventy third and to the
Speaker 1: I mean went from uh. He said, he went to
Speaker 1: the one seventy third, you know, And I said, I
Speaker 1: talked to my friend. I said, there it is. That's
Speaker 1: what Howard was in the one seventy third. He said
Speaker 1: he couldn't go to him. How just was real was
Speaker 1: the advisor to one seventy third for a mission. You
Speaker 1: know a bunch of times we'll do go ahead.
Speaker 2: Now, what I want to say is this is interesting
Speaker 2: to talk about how secret these operations were and how
Speaker 2: orders like this for this secrecy. Obviously, when our friend
Speaker 2: here is we're talking here, our sergeant Howard Upshurtch gets
Speaker 2: his audience to receive a medal from President Lyndon Johnson.
Speaker 2: Here's a story, and I'm going to quote from your book.
Speaker 2: They just wanted me to keep my mouth shut about
Speaker 2: the secret mission I was on. End quote, Howard said
Speaker 2: that one of our choppers with super secret equipment was
Speaker 2: down in law so the place we're not supposed to be.
Speaker 2: I was above them in my own shopper, calling for help.
Speaker 2: And he says, that's my brothers down there waving and
Speaker 2: yelling at me. I told the fighter jets closing in
Speaker 2: on the enemy soldiers. Instead, the pilots destroyed the crippled
Speaker 2: chopper and my men for a few pieces of highly
Speaker 2: classified electronic gear. An order like that only comes from
Speaker 2: the president themselves end quote. So whatever was going on there,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's kind of a disgrace. But we're talking
Speaker 2: both sides of the Vietnam War here. I mean, we
Speaker 2: salute all those patriots that fought in the war and
Speaker 2: those that died. But from the highest levels of the government,
Speaker 2: it's damn about time that we hear some of the stories,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure most people knew day, but now your
Speaker 2: book helps make the connection. Obviously, you need to have
Speaker 2: these secret military players out there, but at what costs
Speaker 2: do we have to sacrifice them in order to sacrifice
Speaker 2: and save missions. That's beyond my pay grade?
Speaker 1: What say you?
Speaker 2: Is we almost close our interview today, Dick. It's a
Speaker 2: great book. People should get it. More than a Warrior.
Speaker 2: You can learn more by going to his website more
Speaker 2: than a Warrior dot com. And he's available, Uh, if
Speaker 2: you want to send him an email, I'm sure, Dix.
Speaker 2: This is the email that I'm going to put out there.
Speaker 2: Sog s o. G Nam like Sog Vietnam. I'm just
Speaker 2: sog Nam at Yahoo dot com. If you get the
Speaker 2: closing word here, your book is informative. It's great research
Speaker 2: on somebody that has, of course been involved in some
Speaker 2: America's most secret and tantalizing missions. Mac Vsog and the
Speaker 2: story of Sergeant Howard up Church. We'll say you as
Speaker 2: we close out today.
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to tell you coming. I never stopped
Speaker 1: because I owed it to Howard. I told him I
Speaker 1: was going to get his book out someday. And I'm
Speaker 1: only ninety two, so I'm in pretty damn good health.
Speaker 1: And it's the obligation on my part, Howard. You know,
Speaker 1: one time I told Howard, I said, I can't do this, Dick.
Speaker 1: I mean a Howard. It's just too big. He's a dick.
Speaker 1: You don't know it. But someday you've finished my book.
Speaker 1: And so I've finished it and I'm making a fortune
Speaker 1: off of it on a royalty that I got. And
Speaker 1: it's two years out there. I made one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty dollars so far.
Speaker 2: Wow. That's amazing. That's amazing royalties, Dick. And that's why
Speaker 2: we're doing this interview to expose the great work that
Speaker 2: you do and your service in the military, but equally
Speaker 2: important the story of Howard Upchurch a top I've every
Speaker 2: organization involved in the CIA, behind the CIA and around
Speaker 2: the CIA. More little Warrior Dick, I appreciate it. As
Speaker 2: we conclude this edition, stay on the line with us
Speaker 2: as we go to the bottom of the hour of
Speaker 2: the heartbreak here. But I want to mention to all
Speaker 2: of our friends here in Arizona from the WABC audience,
Speaker 2: if you're out here in Arizona. Two great sponsors of what.
Speaker 1: We do here on the radio.
Speaker 2: Yeah It's Chinese Restaurant in Gilbert, Arizova, and the two
Speaker 2: locations of Raphael's Pizza there in New York. Genuine pizza.
Speaker 2: That is New York genuine pizza. Love the West, really,
Speaker 2: so you get New York genuine pizza from Raphael's and
Speaker 2: all the good people are many thanks to our producer,
Speaker 2: Doctor Dean, who handles the controls to make sure that
Speaker 2: everybody can hear this particular interview and all of them
Speaker 2: on the Doctor Guy Experience. Once again, proud to be
Speaker 2: here on Talk radio seventy seven WABC, the crown jewel
Speaker 2: of radio. The iconic sody Southern talk radio beaming out
Speaker 2: of New York, around the nation, and around the world.
Speaker 1: Thank you Dick.
Speaker 2: Frank for a great book and a great story. Mold
Speaker 2: Than a Warrior. Get your copy today, folks by going
Speaker 2: through more than a Warrior dot Com. Thank you Dick Frank.