WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:07.160 This is author Dick Frank, author of More Than a Warrior, 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:11.880 and you're listening to Doctor Sky Experience on Talk Radio 3 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:14.480 seventy seven WABC. 4 00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:35.560 And welcome back to the Doctor Skuy Experience heard proudly 5 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:38.600 and of course all over the nation, all over the world, 6 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:41.679 and even out into the cosmos on Talk Radio seventy 7 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:45.200 seven w ABC. We like to call it the crown 8 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:50.920 Jewel of radio, the Iconic seventy seven and Talk Radio WABC. 9 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:54.280 As we continue to talk about these great subject matters, 10 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:59.039 normally the subjects of astronomy, space, aviation, and weather. Obviously, 11 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:02.159 folks with my own mill military service, we talked proudly 12 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:05.959 about American exceptionalism and the story of truth justice in 13 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:10.480 the American way. And today, without exception, a very special 14 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:13.359 guest and author. In just a moment, we'll be introducing 15 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:16.280 Dick Frank, an author of a book called More Than 16 00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:20.400 a Warrior, a most fascinating story and I think many 17 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:24.200 out there will certainly appreciate. But before we introduce our 18 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:26.680 special guests, I'd like to read a little bit from 19 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:29.719 the back cover of his book, More Than a Warrior, 20 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:33.280 And our producer today is doctor d We appreciate his 21 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:36.599 talents putting all this together so you can hear the 22 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:40.760 Doctor Sky experience split it under top secret Green Beret 23 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:44.239 Team leader Sergeant Howard up Church appeared in a Communist 24 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:47.480 uniform in front of his hooch at Triple C the 25 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:53.079 CIA is super serious and secret Macvisong Special Operations Group 26 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.680 camp outside Contum City, South Vietnam. He helped design the 27 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:01.079 logo that is very famous for that special group mac 28 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:04.200 v SAG. Under the auspices of that shield, a small 29 00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.120 select group of men fought for the CIA in Southeast 30 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:10.479 Asia Agency for the Agency, but it was never just 31 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:14.120 a Vietnam war is. Their black operations spilled over into 32 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:18.039 half of a dozen other countries near and farm extraordinary 33 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:21.800 jungle fighters and spies. Their suicidal missions required them to 34 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.800 do things that no humans should have to do to 35 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.280 other humans. One man, Sergeant Upchurch, broke away for two 36 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:33.400 years led his own army Montagnard Warriors, irrespective of the 37 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:36.759 rest of the world's plans, being forced and coaxed back 38 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:40.520 into the CIA bowl. With that, let's introduce our special guests, 39 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:44.560 Dick Frank, who knew this man is the backstory, of 40 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:48.560 course for Marlon Brando, who appears in the movie the 41 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:53.360 epic Francis Bord Coppola's Apocalypse. Now, well, good afternoon, Deck, 42 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:54.439 thanks for being with us. 43 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:57.400 Nice to me here, doctor Ska. 44 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:01.879 Well, I appreciate your time. So let's start from the beginning. 45 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:04.560 How did you get to meet this sergeant and tell 46 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:06.759 us this reason that you wrote this four hundred and 47 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:10.840 some page book, because obviously it seems like about time 48 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:14.960 Americans knew what that Special Operations Group did in Vietnam. 49 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:21.680 Well, there, you're right there. Well, when my wife died, Sally, 50 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:28.360 in nineteen eighty one, I went to U to Linguish CDB, Texas, 51 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:32.919 that's in them. I'm in Texas, that's a small dining 52 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:38.479 mining dialing mining island. And I met Howard Upchurch. He 53 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:44.199 was retired a few years from SAD Special Operations Group, 54 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:48.360 and h he was on the CDB ports with hundreds 55 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:54.159 of people around him and telling his war stories, And 56 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:57.199 I said, who the heck you that guy? It took 57 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:01.199 me two hours, took so many people around him listening 58 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:06.280 to him, and I was hooked in three minutes. I 59 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:09.520 would like the rest of him, I mean in Howard 60 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:13.439 was kept on going about all his messadventures around the world. 61 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:17.519 You know, and he was mainly he was talking about 62 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.720 his Mountayard Warriors. He loved his Mountain North Warriors. Third, 63 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:25.920 about fifteen year old, I'm part of like American Indians. 64 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:29.360 But I was shocked, you know, fifteen years old in 65 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:36.160 the that's where his team there's about two or three Americans. 66 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:40.839 When I say Americans, I'm talking about FOG Special Operation 67 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:46.800 Group that they're all from the CIA anyway, Paris, that 68 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:51.160 we could not do anything and in this triple panel 69 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:55.120 beach Jungle without these Mountain Yard Warriors. And I could 70 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:59.800 go on and on, but he he had had his dashinating. 71 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:03.680 Why did I write the book? Because I knew that 72 00:05:03.879 --> 00:05:07.600 his story shouldn't be I mean, stories shouldn't be told 73 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:10.199 around the world. I was fascinated. If it's the most 74 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:14.360 incredible thing I've seen anybody, right, And he was a 75 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:21.480 humorous and very very serious and he had a whole 76 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:25.639 and fascinated, enthralled as I call it. 77 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:29.000 Well, Dick, this is a fascinating interview that we're going 78 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:31.680 to have here today on the Doctor Sky Experience talking 79 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.639 about American exceptionalism and some of the things right or 80 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.680 wrong that happened during the Vietnam War. And of course 81 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:41.160 everybody out there will of course formulate their opinion on 82 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:42.920 all the things that we're saying here. But I want 83 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:45.560 to go back in time here to describe a little 84 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:50.399 bit about mac Visog Military Assistance Command. He did covert 85 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:54.480 and unconventional warfare. They operated, as you know, in Vietnam, Laos, 86 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:58.399 and Cambodia starting January fourth and twenty fourth, I should say, 87 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:03.199 nineteen sixty fourth through nineteen seventy two. Psychological warfare was 88 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:04.040 also part. 89 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:04.600 Of what they did. 90 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:08.560 And now today they've been replaced by something called Jaysok 91 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:13.680 Joint Special Operations Command after the Saturanian hostage rescue mission 92 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:17.800 that happened many many years ago. As you know, General WILLIAMS. Warland, 93 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:22.040 he really had no authority outside of South Vietnam. So 94 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:24.160 what I want to ask you is this is a 95 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.000 very select group. So you're talking here about this gentleman, 96 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:30.959 we're talking about Howard up Church, Sergeant Howard up Church. 97 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:33.959 Did he tell you how we got involved in this organization? 98 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:36.120 I mean, they have to pick these people. I'm sure 99 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:40.120 you know they're just not anybody or any regular soldier. 100 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:41.160 They're kind of special. 101 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:45.079 Talk about how they picked these people okay, Well, you know, 102 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:49.800 he was a sixteen year old marine in Korea. Then 103 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:56.439 he went into the regular army. And in the regular army, 104 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:59.920 well he was a you know, I'm talking about fifty 105 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:04.959 years ago, twenty some years ago in h he I'm 106 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:07.399 trying to think. Anyway, he had the Soldier of the 107 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:12.920 Year award in the once seventy third don't quote me 108 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:18.839 on that, but anyway, he he was an exceptional soldier, 109 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:22.639 you know, for eighteen thousand people or whatever that was 110 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:25.519 on the base. He was number one, you know with 111 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:31.360 this awards. And uh So, anyway, saw the CIA. It's 112 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:39.800 the CIA organization. They they they picked him out and 113 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:43.639 the well, I asked Howard by myself. He said, well, 114 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:48.079 you know, Nick, they're looking for people like me. I said, 115 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:51.800 what do you mean like you? Howard? He said, he said, 116 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.720 I hate to talk about now, but Howard was a 117 00:07:56.600 --> 00:08:05.199 was a incredibly god it's uh killer, I can put 118 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:11.079 it just kindly. And he's also very like a fight 119 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:15.360 you know, uh for I'm not getting it very well, 120 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:20.120 but anyway, he would driven. Anyway, he was what the 121 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:23.879 CIA was looking for. It's like if you could read 122 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:26.279 the book and you could, I could tell you explain 123 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:27.000 it everything. 124 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:30.199 He was, well, I want people, Dick to read the book, 125 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:33.200 and I want to remind people before we continue that 126 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:36.919 your website is more than a warrior dot com. And 127 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:39.240 this is fascinating today as we talk here on the 128 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:42.480 Doctor Sky experience, Chick. Before we go further with the 129 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:45.559 Colonel and of course the story of the Master Sergeant 130 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.639 and Sergeant Howard Upchurch, I want to ask you talk 131 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:51.279 about your military career too, so we can find out 132 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:52.480 a little bit more about you. 133 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:57.399 Who's Dick. That's that's that's that's funny too, because I 134 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:00.720 told you Howard that, you know, I just got out 135 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:03.279 of in the I mean when I met him, you know, 136 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:09.240 in nineteen eighty one and he's retired. And I said, Howard, 137 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:12.240 I don't like to talk about my experiences. You know, 138 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:16.159 I was a sailors right during the Korean War. And 139 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.440 I said, I don't like to talk about my experience, 140 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.159 but but I will tell you, Howard, I said, I 141 00:09:23.399 --> 00:09:26.360 bought the Battle of the River Era, then the war 142 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.720 bikinis in the Mediterranean, my low my homeport was Tom's, France, 143 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:36.120 where the Hollywood stars go and everything. You know, Howard 144 00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:39.000 it har I said, that's a good duty day. 145 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:44.879 Wow, that's amazing. But when you meet this man, I mean, 146 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:47.159 this is interesting. I can I ask you when you're 147 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:51.120 talking about study butt Texas, where is that on the map? 148 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:53.720 So people understand you kind of want to I want 149 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:55.120 to use the word. And I hope you're not offended. 150 00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:58.279 You became more of like a recluse, sadly after your 151 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.840 loving wife had passed away. But is this location study 152 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:03.440 but in Texas? 153 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:09.080 I don't call I'm gray jarious and I'm not a recluse. 154 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:13.320 You know I was a dropout. You know it's it's 155 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:17.399 a big the National Park Texas on the Rio Grand 156 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:24.559 River in southwest Texas. In this seedy but or two language, 157 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.480 there's there's animus. I mean there's they're really supposed to 158 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:32.440 get a few miles apart. It's a it's a gorgeous, 159 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:36.960 beautiful mountain desert country if you like mountain desert. I 160 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:40.320 mean it's all. When I was there in nineteen fifty 161 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:44.759 four after the Navy, there was only about seven people there. 162 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:49.799 Now it's full of still dropouts. I call it this 163 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:55.720 h of this anyway, it's full of a draffouts and 164 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:58.480 the skitties and everything, But at least it was when 165 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:03.080 I was there, you know, in so it's very close 166 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:07.200 to Big Beg National Park. Yes, that's interesting. 167 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:09.480 But Dick, as we're doing this interview today on the 168 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:12.559 Notor Sky Experience heard probably here on talk radio seventy 169 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.919 seven w ABC, as we like to say, Dick, we 170 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.759 broadcast out of New York, around the nation, around the world, 171 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:22.000 and I'm sure even out into the cosmos. Dick, you're 172 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:24.879 what ninety two years young? Am I correct on that? 173 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:28.080 What's the secret to being ninety two years young? 174 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:32.519 Tell us? Oh, I'll tell you it's it's organic carrocust 175 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:41.759 and white Russians. I'm joking. I know, No, I was. 176 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:45.159 I was always. I was always a help stuff because 177 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.799 I was a concentration camp, Dick. And when I was 178 00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:51.559 very young, you know, so I always well, you know, 179 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:55.159 I always I got this. I ended up eating the 180 00:11:55.559 --> 00:12:00.799 organic vegetables and in all that kind of stuff. My 181 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:03.360 wife was spurious at me when I first met her. 182 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.360 He didn't eat white fries or nothing. But finally he should. 183 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:11.960 Finally he realized, you know that I was right, and 184 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:16.840 he sa. He died at forty six with the brain tumor, 185 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:23.000 but he was beautiful still more beautiful, insight and everything, 186 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:27.039 but he became a health stuff like me. Now I'm 187 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:31.639 toiled off my table all that stuff. I just my 188 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:35.519 whole My whole problem is I ate too much ice 189 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:38.480 cream and talk to chip cooking. So there you go. 190 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:40.840 You keep eating ice cream, bitch, because let me tell 191 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:43.279 yourself that I hope I make it to ninety two years. 192 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:45.639 And the story going about to here is he yeah, 193 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:46.039 go ahead. 194 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:48.840 Well, I just don't say I do a little bit 195 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:53.919 of yoga exercises every morning, because I said, well, when 196 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.639 I was very young, I said, what can I keep doing? 197 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.240 Because most people, you know, they might stole them else 198 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:02.559 up and everything, and then they let themself go when 199 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:05.240 they gets the old age. I always say, you can't 200 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:09.279 let gravities get you. So I do a little yoga 201 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:15.399 exercise every morning, and then I pray to God for 202 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:21.399 Sally my prayer, and then then I and then I 203 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:25.840 you know, I'm saying for my book. You know, then 204 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:29.399 I act me what I do. I'm working on my 205 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:31.960 cover letters all the time and send it off if 206 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:35.320 like that's. 207 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.840 What I just well, Dick, your book is over four 208 00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:40.159 hundred pages long, and it goes through so many different 209 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:42.919 audio cancent interviews that you did. You put over two 210 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:45.759 hundred audio cassette tapes together. But now looks good to 211 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:49.080 the meat of the story here, obviously we're talking about 212 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:52.559 a man's sergeant, Howard up Church. Now we find out 213 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:55.399 that there's this movie that comes out August fifteenth, nineteen 214 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:58.519 seventy nine, and I'm sure everybody in the house and 215 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:02.360 hopefully everybody listening to the sky experience as seen Francis 216 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:07.200 word Gobela's epic movie of course, Apocalypse Now, in which 217 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:11.519 we find out that this Colonel Kertz played by Marlon Brando, 218 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.879 one of the most famous actors of all time. The movie, 219 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:17.639 and I'm going back in my own notes here, was 220 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:20.559 not considered to be very popular when it first came out. 221 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.519 They actually had five dollars seats in Los Angeles when 222 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:27.039 it first came out. It was exhibited and performed and 223 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:30.320 displayed in three theaters at the time. But he comes 224 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.240 from a novella, and I want you to talk about 225 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:35.440 this the Heart of Darkness where they get Apocalypse Now 226 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.240 from an eighteen ninety nine Joseph Conrad writes this epic novella. 227 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:43.279 So what I'm trying to get from you? Is you 228 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:45.919 believe very strongly because you write the whole book about 229 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:49.240 Sergeant Howard Upchurch. How is he the role model for 230 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:52.559 this particular colonel who is Marlon Brando? How did he 231 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.639 come to tell you that that's an interesting story? Please 232 00:14:55.679 --> 00:15:02.080 please tell us I And that's exactly what happened. 233 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.159 I'm glad you asked me, because I was going to 234 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:07.559 tell you that everything you never wanted to know about 235 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:09.960 next front for the friend who's going to tell you anyway? 236 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.759 So it so. In fact, I was on the internet 237 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:18.279 just a while ago and I pulled up this is 238 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:21.840 all about the populus now in Marlon brandw and in 239 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:28.039 Colonel David Hackworth. Uh he diedn't know about sixteen years ago. 240 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:32.600 I was watching him on TV and he he was 241 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:38.559 so erroga. I said, God almighty, you know. And he 242 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:41.360 was on those for a specialists for terrorism, you know, 243 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:45.000 I think me anyway, So I called him up. I 244 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.720 got a hold of him and uh and talked to him, 245 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.919 you know, and he in fact, I got the fans, 246 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.480 I got the email to the emails. He said, well, Dick, 247 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:56.480 I asked him. I told him, I said, I have 248 00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.480 hoired up church. He's a role model for Apostous now 249 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:04.600 and uh David Hackman said, I don't have my email 250 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.399 right from in front of me, but basically he said, well, 251 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:13.039 you know, Frances word Cope was contacting me, and he said, uh, 252 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:18.759 he wanted me to be an advisor for a Poculus now, 253 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:25.759 especially uh Marlon Brando in uh halfworth halfworth, he wrote, 254 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:28.440 I try to write to any good when I'm trying 255 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.320 to promote somebody, you know. But he was writing bad 256 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:33.799 English and everything. But he's an author, so you you know, 257 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:38.440 he's got some books up and and uh anyway, Hackworth 258 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:43.840 Grot He's wrote and I'll tell you and everything he said. Uh, 259 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:47.200 he said, uh, I told Frances work Cope. He said, 260 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:49.720 I just got out of the service, and he said, 261 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:54.399 all I want to do now is uh drag and 262 00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:59.679 lay of women. No, no, holy, he said, Actually he 263 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.399 said drugs. I hate this sad now for the person 264 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:05.920 he's kidding, he's he's dead and everything. I just pulled 265 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:07.960 it up just for reference because I knew I was 266 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.200 on talking to you. He said, all I wanted you 267 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:16.319 is drugs and make the women. So he drove it down. Okay, 268 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.960 well anyway, Oh, I forgot to tell you that the 269 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:23.759 main thing. But he said, uh, he said, oh popples, 270 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.480 Now I wasn't I just powered up Church said it 271 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:31.519 was all of us. He said, he said, uh, resist 272 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:35.000 for cope and just compiled it from a little bit 273 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:39.000 from heart and darkness in the in the other veterans, 274 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.039 you know. And I said, he said, if it wasn't 275 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.680 just he said, it wasn't, uh just powered up Church. 276 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:50.839 I said, uh, let me ask you something, David. I said, well, 277 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:56.279 you know, was you and Sock Special Operation Group? He 278 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:02.319 said no, I was, well, so he didn't know Howard. 279 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:06.039 I talked to Howard over our kicking table for ten years. 280 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:10.519 He said, these people don't know. It's so sacred and 281 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:17.680 uh well he had no idea so all these ten years, 282 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:23.000 but I said, Rell, Howard, I asked all these questions, 283 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:27.359 and I'm very objective and I researched and everything. There's 284 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:29.880 a lot of people to say this. He was a 285 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:34.920 here so he was apo. I mean a Smarlow bread. 286 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:39.640 Now I could sell, you know, but it was Howard, Wow, 287 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:42.799 you know what I want to My book was full 288 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:46.680 of explaining that I'm saying because I know people, because 289 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:47.720 I know people want to. 290 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.400 Know that, oh you've met, and I want people to 291 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:51.960 read the book. But what I want to do just 292 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:55.440 to refresh people's memories just in case they're not really 293 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.640 fluent in the nineteen seventy nine epic Apocalypse Now movie. 294 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.720 We're now going to hear the trailer from this particular 295 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:05.279 movie because I remember Dick when I first thought, I 296 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.519 was in Hackenstack, New Jersey, at what we call the 297 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.640 Oratani Theater, which was downtown. If we have listeners of 298 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:16.160 course from WABC on Radio seventy seven. I got into 299 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:18.319 the see the movie and I was kind of shocked. 300 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:20.920 But we're going to hear that right now to bring 301 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:25.039 back the story of Apocalypse Now in the connection that 302 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:27.359 you assert here in the movie and the book that 303 00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:31.440 is well documented that the role model for Marlon Brando, 304 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:36.680 Captain Colonel Kurtz is obviously Sergeant Howard up Church. 305 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:50.359 So here we go. You've heard of Colonel Walter E. Kurtz. 306 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:53.359 Your mission is to terminate the Colonel's command. 307 00:19:53.519 --> 00:20:00.240 Jeminy, terminate its extreme prejudice. 308 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:08.680 I love the spell of Black Palm in the morning. 309 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.240 Very obviously he is gone, and say this is the 310 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:44.799 Uh my only Frisia you will assesss Lee and a soldier. 311 00:20:48.039 --> 00:21:05.680 That you come out. 312 00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:17.680 Okay, that's amazing. But I want to get back to 313 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.000 this particular story of about this gentleman that you've interviewed. 314 00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:24.799 He passed away in nineteen ninety nine, so you're probably 315 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:26.839 one of the only people alive. That's the reason for 316 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:31.039 your book that has all this documentation. So people need 317 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:34.319 to look at these vignettes about what fifty two chapters 318 00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:38.160 in here of information about what it was like to 319 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:42.640 be in mac VisAD and this particular man. But I 320 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:47.119 got to ask you too, talk about where these Montagnard 321 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:51.400 warriors were. Where was this happening. Was this in Cambodia? 322 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:53.759 Was this in Laos? Because we weren't supposed to be 323 00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:55.599 other than in Vietnam. 324 00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:01.880 I guess correct that doth tunning because he was in Vietnam. 325 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:06.519 It was in Laos, It was in Cambodia, all every place. 326 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:13.279 Uh Howard Howard and General Westmoreon, which was a confidant 327 00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:18.039 of Howard, General Westmoreon Howard, that was his friend, General Westmoreland. 328 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:23.200 Westmoreland got Howard. I was so many troubles you wouldn't 329 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:28.519 believe anyway. But the Moneyard Warriors was in the uh 330 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:35.039 basically they was in Thailand. And uh, I mean, like 331 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:37.400 I say, how I couldn't Howard that I could not 332 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.759 do anything without my Mountain Yard Warriors. But I mean 333 00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:46.759 when he was in h his base camp was in Cambo, 334 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:52.240 I mean Vietnam, tomtoon Vietnam, and he could a moment's 335 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:55.039 notice that c I could send him off to another 336 00:22:55.160 --> 00:23:00.519 mission around the world, like in Lebanon or or Turkey whatever. 337 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:04.319 You know, it's not just Vietnam. That's try to tell 338 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:09.319 the people that it's you know, power was that's published there. 339 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:16.240 The most elite published it for CIA for many years. 340 00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:19.920 Yes, Wow, the story gets more interesting. But I go, 341 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:21.880 well that I want you to share from the Annals 342 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:24.559 of History again that has a lot to do with 343 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:28.319 President Lyndon Johnson. And I'm reading here from your notes. 344 00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:32.319 Unlike the Congressional Medal of Honor winners like York and Murphy, 345 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:36.079 Howard blew his Medal of Honor in a wild rant 346 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:40.279 against President Lyndon Johnson in a hotel ballroom before he 347 00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:42.400 was to receive it in front of the nation. Talk 348 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:46.680 about that, because this guy has the nerves of Steel. 349 00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:50.359 So tell us what happened there with President Johnson in 350 00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:54.079 your words, Oh, I remembered it perfectly. 351 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:57.359 Most of the ninety percent of my stuff in my book. 352 00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:00.480 It's hours worse. I got to struct two hundred audio 353 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.680 concept taste, and I just took it from Howard, you know, 354 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:07.640 because I think I'm just an average writer and everything. 355 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.400 I'm not best for nothing, you know. But anyway, I 356 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:15.359 got the people interested because they're listening to Howard in 357 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:20.319 the story. Howard said, I can't use vulgarity for you. 358 00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:25.680 But Howard said, give as SEBASTI can on the other side. 359 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.039 There you go. Well, Howard said, okay, I'll tell you 360 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.680 something I didn't know. And he said, Dick, nobody nobody 361 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:38.279 goes up to see the president for Congressional Medal of Honor. 362 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:42.200 They always have to his buddies, so when he gets 363 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.079 so drunk and everything, they can straighten them out to 364 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.720 see the president. You know. He said that. He said, 365 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:52.039 you know, I was so well, I was so teed 366 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.519 off of the President of the United States. He said, 367 00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:00.440 I went at this ballroom the night before I was 368 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:03.920 supposed to go to screw from the Nations to us 369 00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:10.480 from Lyndon Johnson and Lennon john Howard's from Texas for Alston, Texas, 370 00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:15.160 Lennon Johnson's from Texas right and Lennon Johnson with the 371 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:19.279 secret sirstman walked over to this ballroom that they wanted 372 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:22.799 to fall in next the night before and he said, uh, 373 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:27.799 he said, uh uh starting up church. I'm I would 374 00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:32.279 just want to talk to a fellow Texans. And Howard's 375 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:35.440 got spirit. Howard is a small guy five for day, 376 00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:39.960 you know, and blue eyes you ever see the incredible 377 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.079 and intelligent blue eyes. But anyway, Howard's got up halfway 378 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:47.400 up from the chart. His buddy grabbed a hold of 379 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.039 it and he tall. He said, just Lendon and Johnson said, 380 00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:53.359 I'm a little and ragged and I have no fear. 381 00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:57.480 I know I'm not wanted, but I'm blah blah here, 382 00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:03.440 uh you know, f here. And that what happened. Ahead, 383 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:08.079 let it content because uh oh, thank you, thank you 384 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:11.599 up kirt, thank you sargeant. And he walked away. But 385 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:16.519 he was afraid. I so they exposed all the misdeeds 386 00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:18.279 the CIA and everything. You know. 387 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.279 Wow, So he was a man that could write. He 388 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:24.440 was a man that was untamed. I mean, he just 389 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:26.599 tell them matter who the hell it was, whether. 390 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.880 It's yeah, say when uh General west Morlan got him 391 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:33.960 out of so many troubles you won't believe. 392 00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:38.720 Well, let's talk about something else in the time we 393 00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:41.559 have here your book again. Just yet, these folks, you're 394 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.000 just curious. Who are we listening to today and speaking with? 395 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:48.519 Were speaking with author Dick Frank. He himself and maybe 396 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:51.960 veteran spent an amazing amount of time with the gentleman 397 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:55.640 whose name is Sergeant Howard up Church. Who is he 398 00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.119 in the top secret organization? On his mac d song 399 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:02.960 he a team of military operators were in places that 400 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:06.599 America said they weren't and shouldn't be and whatever they 401 00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:10.680