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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two

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<v Speaker 1>of our series about the murder of Crystal Champagne. Robin,

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<v Speaker 1>do you want to catch everyone up on what we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about in our previous episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is a wrongful conviction case which took place

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<v Speaker 2>in Westwega, Louisiana in nineteen ninety six, and the victim

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<v Speaker 2>was a girl named Crystal Champagne who was only fourteen

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<v Speaker 2>years old. She went out to go to the supermarket,

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<v Speaker 2>but she never returned home, and twenty four hours later

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<v Speaker 2>her body would be found in a wooded area and

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<v Speaker 2>she had been badly beaten to death and strangled, but

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<v Speaker 2>even though her jub shirt was pulled up and her

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<v Speaker 2>pants were pulled down, it did not appear that she

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<v Speaker 2>had been raped. At the time. A step cousin of

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<v Speaker 2>Crystal's name, Damon Thibodeau, who had originally lived in Texas,

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<v Speaker 2>was visiting and staying with the family, and he was

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<v Speaker 2>already in police custody being questioned at the time that

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<v Speaker 2>Crystal's body was discovered, but they decided to relentlessly interrogate

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<v Speaker 2>him for the next several hours, and because Damon was

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<v Speaker 2>already exhausted by that point, he decided to make a

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<v Speaker 2>confession of the crime, pretty much to make it end,

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<v Speaker 2>and by the time he was arrested in charge with

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<v Speaker 2>the murder, he immediately recanted his confession, but in spite

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<v Speaker 2>of this, they still went to trial even though there

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<v Speaker 2>was literally no other evidence linking him to the crime scene.

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<v Speaker 2>All of the physical evidence did not match him, but

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<v Speaker 2>in spite of this, the jury felt that the confession

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<v Speaker 2>was strong enough evidence that they decided to find him

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<v Speaker 2>guilty and he received the death penalty and Damon would

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<v Speaker 2>have remain in prison for sixteen years and it would

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<v Speaker 2>not get his conviction overturned until his defense team tryingly

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<v Speaker 2>approached the original process secutter who put Damon behind bars

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<v Speaker 2>at his trial, Paul Konig Junior, and he agreed to

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<v Speaker 2>do a joint investigation, and of course they found out

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<v Speaker 2>that none of the physical evidence matched Damon. A lot

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<v Speaker 2>of experts testify that his confession had been coerced and

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<v Speaker 2>was not legitimate, as a lot of the details he

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<v Speaker 2>shared did not match the evidence, such as Damon claiming

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<v Speaker 2>that he raped Crystal even though there was no evidence

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<v Speaker 2>that she had been sexually assaulted, and Paul Konic Junior

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<v Speaker 2>surprisingly decided to agree to the motion to overturn his conviction,

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<v Speaker 2>and after serving sixteen years, Damon was finally released from

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<v Speaker 2>death row. He became an anti death penalty advocate for

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<v Speaker 2>wrongful convictions, but unfortunately, in twenty twenty one, he wound

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<v Speaker 2>up dying due to complications of COVID nineteen and he

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<v Speaker 2>was only forty seven years old. And even though the

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<v Speaker 2>investigation into the murder of Crystal Champagne was reopened, they

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<v Speaker 2>have never found any alternative suspects, so the case technically

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<v Speaker 2>still remains unsolved and we have no idea who actually

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<v Speaker 2>committed this crime. So, as you well know, wrongful convictions

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<v Speaker 2>are incredibly sad stories to cover because not only does

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<v Speaker 2>an innocent person have to serve time in prison for

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<v Speaker 2>a crime they did not commit, but much of the time,

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<v Speaker 2>the actual victim does not receive justice. Whenever someone goes

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<v Speaker 2>through the ordeal of being wrongfully convicted and has many

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<v Speaker 2>years of their life stolen away, I always hope that

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<v Speaker 2>they received the opportunity to live their best possible life

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<v Speaker 2>once they are released from prison. So it's incredibly tragic

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<v Speaker 2>when this doesn't take place. In spite of what he endured,

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<v Speaker 2>Damon Thibodeau was only thirty eight years old when he

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<v Speaker 2>was released from death Row, and he still had many

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<v Speaker 2>years ahead of him. Prior to his arrest, Damon had

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<v Speaker 2>already endured a very difficult, abusive childhood, but it sounds

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<v Speaker 2>like he went on to enjoy nine very productive years

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<v Speaker 2>of freedom before he succumbed to COVID. The Innocents Project

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<v Speaker 2>referred to Damon as an incredibly kind and gentle person

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<v Speaker 2>in his obituary, as he was attempting to use his

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<v Speaker 2>experience behind bars to do good. Damon was particularly outspoken

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<v Speaker 2>against the practice of solitary confinement, deeming it to be

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<v Speaker 2>cruel and unusual punishment. During his time on death Row,

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<v Speaker 2>Damon would spend twenty three hours per day in a

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<v Speaker 2>small cell, and even after his release, he wound up

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<v Speaker 2>suffering from frequent nightmares because of the experience, and initially

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<v Speaker 2>at trouble adjusting to the outside world. At one point,

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<v Speaker 2>Damon testified at a Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing on human

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<v Speaker 2>rights and admitted that the experience was so torturous that

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<v Speaker 2>there were times when he just wanted the execution to

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<v Speaker 2>move forward rather than fight for his exoneration. He stated, quote,

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<v Speaker 2>I did not want to live like an animal in

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<v Speaker 2>a cage for years on end, only to lose my

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<v Speaker 2>case and then have the state kill me anyway. I

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<v Speaker 2>thought it would be better to end my life as

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<v Speaker 2>soon as I could and avoid the agony of life

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<v Speaker 2>in solitary end quote. Unfortunately, Damon never received any compensation

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<v Speaker 2>for his wrongful conviction because even though all the evidence

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<v Speaker 2>against him was discredited, the Louisiana Attorney General's office stated

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<v Speaker 2>that he would need to prove his factual innocence. So

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<v Speaker 2>even though there was no trace of Damon's DNA found

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<v Speaker 2>on the victim or anywhere near the murder scene, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not like they could perform DNA testing on a definitive

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<v Speaker 2>piece of evidence, such as a semen sample, to prove

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<v Speaker 2>beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did not

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<v Speaker 2>commit this crime. Damon did attempt to file a federal

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<v Speaker 2>civil rights lawsuit, which was put on hold in twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 2>and his claim was still pending at the time of

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<v Speaker 2>his death.

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<v Speaker 3>There's so many things that made me so upset and

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<v Speaker 3>frustrated by what you just said. When you look at Damon,

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<v Speaker 3>when you look at the fact that he was wrongfully convicted.

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<v Speaker 3>He lost not only those years of his life, but

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<v Speaker 3>he lost time with his son. Didn't he have a

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<v Speaker 3>son when he went to prison.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we mentioned that his son was only about four

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<v Speaker 2>or five years old at the time he was arrested,

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<v Speaker 2>and because the mother had custody, he didn't really know

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<v Speaker 2>him all that while, didn't spend much time with him.

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<v Speaker 2>But when Damon was on death row, his son decided

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<v Speaker 2>to reach out to him and they started corresponding, but

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<v Speaker 2>Damon said, no, do not visit me because I don't

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<v Speaker 2>want our first time to meet is me when I'm

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<v Speaker 2>inside a prison. So they did not actually meet for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time until he was released, and they did

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<v Speaker 2>develop a strong relationship, but unfortunately Damon died nine years

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<v Speaker 2>after that.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, you think about it, the ability for

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<v Speaker 3>him to form a kind of relationship he wanted. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe he didn't have one when he went into prison,

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<v Speaker 3>but he had a lot of the ability to form

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<v Speaker 3>a healthy relationship with his son if that was something

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<v Speaker 3>they both wanted because he was behind prison bars. And then,

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<v Speaker 3>like you said, they had this amazing relationship when he

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<v Speaker 3>got out, but that was short lived. He passed away

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<v Speaker 3>a few years after he was released. But going back

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<v Speaker 3>to what the state did to him, when you look

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<v Speaker 3>at the Louisiana Attorney General's office saying you can't prove

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<v Speaker 3>your factual innocence, all that is is we want to

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<v Speaker 3>cover our own butt and not pay you money. It's

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<v Speaker 3>infuriating because in the American justice system, you don't have

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<v Speaker 3>to prove your actual innocence. You have to just make

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<v Speaker 3>sure that your rights were either not met and or

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<v Speaker 3>the state didn't do their job, which was to properly

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<v Speaker 3>prosecute you and show beyond a reasonable doubt that you

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<v Speaker 3>did do it. So when you look back and he's

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<v Speaker 3>advocating for please can you help me financially? I don't

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<v Speaker 3>have years of experience, and I have this felony hanging

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<v Speaker 3>over my head where I was on death row and

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<v Speaker 3>people think I could have killed somebody even though I'm free.

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<v Speaker 3>There's so many challenges he has now that he's out, socially, financially, emotionally,

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<v Speaker 3>and he's asking for some compensation and they say no,

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<v Speaker 3>they messed up, or he would not have been released.

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<v Speaker 3>We see it time and time again where people that

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<v Speaker 3>are innocent are not released. There's a reason why Damon

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<v Speaker 3>was pulled from death row and then sent back into society.

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<v Speaker 3>It's because they know they messed up. And to say,

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<v Speaker 3>unless you can prove your factual innocence aka there's DNA

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<v Speaker 3>linking someone else to the crime, you won't get any

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<v Speaker 3>help is asinine. It is absolutely asinine. That is not

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<v Speaker 3>the way our justice system worn't.

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<v Speaker 1>In your opinion, Ash, what is the landscape like across

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<v Speaker 1>the US with regards to like which states are more

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<v Speaker 1>likely to give compensation and which ones are like the

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<v Speaker 1>most likely to hold back and not provide any compensation.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so there are laws on the books. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know state by state unless I looked it up, but

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<v Speaker 3>there's there's laws on the books for every single state.

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<v Speaker 3>There are some that are much more favorable to someone

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<v Speaker 3>who is wrongfully convicted, meaning maybe they don't have a

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<v Speaker 3>cap on the amount of money that you can get,

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<v Speaker 3>but many states will limit no matter how long you

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<v Speaker 3>were in for, no matter why you were there. There's

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<v Speaker 3>many many states that say this is the max value

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<v Speaker 3>you can get, whether it was five years or forty years, right,

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<v Speaker 3>which is crazy because you should account for the multiple

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<v Speaker 3>years that someone's in prison. There are some states that,

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<v Speaker 3>just like Louisiana said, unless you can prove your factual innocence,

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<v Speaker 3>meaning we can positively link DNA to someone else and

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<v Speaker 3>prove that you didn't have something to do with it. Still,

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<v Speaker 3>which is often where they'll go if they do have

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<v Speaker 3>DNA evidence right, they'll say, well, you still could have

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<v Speaker 3>been there, Well you still could have helped or participated,

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<v Speaker 3>even though that's often not the case. So it almost

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<v Speaker 3>is no matter what the laws are on the books,

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<v Speaker 3>the state likes to have really clever ways to skirt

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<v Speaker 3>around the boundaries that they put in place. Some say

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<v Speaker 3>blank money per year to a max of blank. Some say,

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<v Speaker 3>here's a blanket amount we give to anyone who serves

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<v Speaker 3>time in prison and is released. But it's very difficult.

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<v Speaker 3>People think you're going to walk out of prison after

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<v Speaker 3>a wrongful conviction and be thrown millions of dollars. It

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<v Speaker 3>just doesn't happen that way, even in states where it

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<v Speaker 3>says it should happen that easily. There's a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>red tape that they have to work through to say, well, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, you actually falsely confessed and so you actually

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<v Speaker 3>contributed to your own conviction. That's not our fault, you

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<v Speaker 3>misled us, and therefore you don't get confident. There's tons

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<v Speaker 3>of laws in the books like that you aid in

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<v Speaker 3>the wrongful conviction of yourself, you mislead the police, or

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<v Speaker 3>you lied, and we can show you light at some

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<v Speaker 3>point then you have to forego your rights. So it's

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<v Speaker 3>very complex and it's not written in favor of the

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<v Speaker 3>person being released.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that a separate body should be evaluating

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<v Speaker 1>these wrongful convictions outside of the justice system as it is,

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<v Speaker 1>because if it's a system investigating itself like therein lies

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<v Speaker 1>the problem.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, one thousand million percent, Jels, you absolutely nailed it.

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<v Speaker 3>What the problem is here is ego and political clout

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<v Speaker 3>and embarrassment. And so when you look at even people

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<v Speaker 3>coming up and they have to go before the same

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<v Speaker 3>judge who allowed them to be convicted, they're dealing with

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<v Speaker 3>the same proscatorial office, it's nearly impossible to say all

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<v Speaker 3>these people who have an ego and a political future

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<v Speaker 3>are going to say, oh my god, we messed up.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh my goodness, we messed up. Sometimes you do have

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<v Speaker 3>incredible people like the prosecutor here that says, let me

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<v Speaker 3>look at this again. Do you guys think I wrongfully

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<v Speaker 3>convicted someone like not okay with me, let me look

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<v Speaker 3>at this again. But it's very rare because they're admitting

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<v Speaker 3>that they messed up. And so when their election comes

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<v Speaker 3>back around and they're trying to you know, elect the

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<v Speaker 3>next district attorney and things of that nature, who wants

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<v Speaker 3>someone who makes errors right? Who wants someone who doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>quote get justice right? And so judges, prosecutors, parole boards,

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<v Speaker 3>all these people want to say, we didn't mess up

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<v Speaker 3>blank happened that caused this and it wasn't our fault

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<v Speaker 3>even when it was. So when you have things like

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<v Speaker 3>you know, conviction integrity units that are third body parties,

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<v Speaker 3>or have multiple team players who truly do have justice

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<v Speaker 3>at the heart of it, I believe you have a

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<v Speaker 3>much better chance of having a unbiased look at these cases.

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<v Speaker 3>Or innocent projects can't do it by themselves, right, they

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<v Speaker 3>can raise suspicion and questions, but you have to have

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<v Speaker 3>a team on the inside. You have to have a

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<v Speaker 3>team that truly wants to say, if someone's serving time

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<v Speaker 3>and they didn't do it, what a travesty like that?

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<v Speaker 3>That actually flies in the face of what our justice

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<v Speaker 3>system should be, and that they're willing to take a

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<v Speaker 3>second look. So yes, yes, yes, you cannot have the

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<v Speaker 3>same people who tried and prosecuted and convicted this person

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<v Speaker 3>be the people to say, oh, let's see if we

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<v Speaker 3>went wrong and what we should do about it, because

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<v Speaker 3>they're always going to cover their own Mirrand.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the main reasons wrongful convictions happen is that

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<v Speaker 1>when police are facing a lot of public pressure to

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<v Speaker 1>solve the crime and focus on a promising suspect, they'll

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<v Speaker 1>often develop tunnel vision and do everything in their power

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<v Speaker 1>to make the case fit their suspect, even if the

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<v Speaker 1>evidence points away from them. But in the case of

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<v Speaker 1>Crystal Champagne's murder, there wasn't even time for public pressure,

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<v Speaker 1>since Damon was charged within hours of her body being found.

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<v Speaker 1>The problem is that Damon was already in custody for

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<v Speaker 1>which should have been a routine interview. Once things evolved

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<v Speaker 1>from a missing person's case to a homicide investigation, the

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<v Speaker 1>police decided to pin the crime on him, even though

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<v Speaker 1>there was really no evidence against him. That he happened

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<v Speaker 1>to be present at Crystel's apartment at the time she

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<v Speaker 1>went missing. This seemed like a case of making a

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<v Speaker 1>suspect confess and then worrying about finding proper evidence after

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<v Speaker 1>the fact. It seemed insane that, even with such a

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<v Speaker 1>weak case against Gamon, the jury only deliberated for one

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<v Speaker 1>hour before they found him guilty. But confessions, no matter

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<v Speaker 1>how unreliable they may be, still seemed to hold a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of weight with jurors who have a hard time

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<v Speaker 1>grasping the idea that anyone would confess to a crime

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<v Speaker 1>that they didn't commit. As the years go by, the

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<v Speaker 1>public is becoming more educated on the issues of false confessions,

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<v Speaker 1>but it wasn't a particularly well known topic back in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety six. In Damon's case, he had gotten virtually

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<v Speaker 1>no sleep after Cris disappeared and was utterly exhausted by

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<v Speaker 1>the time he was brought in for questioning, and after

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<v Speaker 1>being badgered for nine hours, Damon said he reached the

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<v Speaker 1>point where he felt that the interrogation was never going

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<v Speaker 1>to end unless he told the police what they wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to hear. I think that many people who make false

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<v Speaker 1>confessions assume that everything will eventually be straightened out once

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<v Speaker 1>the evidence shows that they couldn't have committed the crime.

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<v Speaker 1>But in most cases, once the suspect is charged with

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<v Speaker 1>the murder. There's no turning back.

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<v Speaker 3>Jewels are absolutely right when you look at this idea

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<v Speaker 3>of people who falsely confess. I think one of the

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<v Speaker 3>mannerisms of a false confession is this idea that I

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<v Speaker 3>know there's nothing factually going to prove my guilt. So

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<v Speaker 3>if I just say what they want to hear right

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<v Speaker 3>this second, I can go home, I can get some help,

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<v Speaker 3>I can have somebody help sort this out, and everything's

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<v Speaker 3>going to be okay. But you also have to think

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<v Speaker 3>about the fact that in that moment, Damon might not

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<v Speaker 3>I have just been thinking that he could have actually

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<v Speaker 3>started to believe that his reality was skewed or wrong,

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<v Speaker 3>because remember, they were not only just having him in

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<v Speaker 3>a situation where he was exhausted and that he was

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<v Speaker 3>being confronted with the fact that he was a murder suspect,

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<v Speaker 3>but he also is being told, Hey, those people that

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<v Speaker 3>you say are your alibi witnesses, they're actually in the

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<v Speaker 3>other room telling us that you weren't with them. We

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<v Speaker 3>actually have evidence that links you directly to this murder.

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<v Speaker 3>And they're continuing to tell him, Look, I know you're

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<v Speaker 3>a good guy, but what happens if you weren't cognizant

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<v Speaker 3>at the time. What if you had passed out or

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<v Speaker 3>you had blacked out, and you did this when you

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<v Speaker 3>weren't even aware that you had done it. We know

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<v Speaker 3>you're good. If you can help us, now, we can

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00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.840
<v Speaker 3>help you on the other side, and he's literally going

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<v Speaker 3>back and forth thinking, oh my god, could I have

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<v Speaker 3>done this? And the more and more they lie to him,

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<v Speaker 3>the more and more his reality is questioned. And it's almost,

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<v Speaker 3>like I said in the first episode, like you're being gaslighted,

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<v Speaker 3>and you keep questioning, am I crazy? Did I misremember

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<v Speaker 3>the events of that night? Because they're telling me that

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<v Speaker 3>even my friends are saying what they believe and that

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<v Speaker 3>I could have done this. Maybe I did so in

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<v Speaker 3>some ways, I wonder if Damon was in that state

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<v Speaker 3>of just psychological torture where he starts to believe he

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<v Speaker 3>actually could have not that he believes he did, but

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00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.159
<v Speaker 3>he's starting to teeter on this idea of could I

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<v Speaker 3>have done this? And therefore he's able to get caught

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<v Speaker 3>up in a false confession and or he believes I

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<v Speaker 3>gotta say what they want so I can get out

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<v Speaker 3>of here. It's really, really a slippery slope. That's why

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<v Speaker 3>it's so questionable that, yes, if you had a suspect

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<v Speaker 3>that your confident killed somebody, some of these tactics are

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<v Speaker 3>amazing ways to get them to truly confess to a crime.

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<v Speaker 3>But those same tactics, when used on an innocent person,

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<v Speaker 3>can elicit a confession. And unfortunately, even though we have

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<v Speaker 3>more information and more things that tell a jury, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>this happens, here's how it happens. Very much progress has

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00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.720
<v Speaker 3>been made since nineteen ninety six, people haven't really changed

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00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:14.599
<v Speaker 3>their mind about confessions. When they hear that someone confessed,

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<v Speaker 3>even today in twenty twenty five, they sit there and

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<v Speaker 3>they say, I would never do that. There's no way

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<v Speaker 3>someone would confess to something they didn't do to this magnitude.

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<v Speaker 3>And still even when experts are telling them the breakdown

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<v Speaker 3>of what and why this happens, they sit there and

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<v Speaker 3>they go listen, he confessed. He had to have done it,

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<v Speaker 3>because I would never falsely confess to something.

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<v Speaker 2>And you were saying our last episode that you even

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<v Speaker 2>had a discussion with Rebel a while back where you're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about this topic, and even he had that mentality saying,

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<v Speaker 2>why would someone confess to something he didn't do.

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<v Speaker 3>He's like, there's no way. Like I was telling him

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<v Speaker 3>about a case where a father actually confesses to sexually

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<v Speaker 3>abusing his own daughter and hurting her to where she

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<v Speaker 3>was hospitalized and all this stuff, and he didn't do it,

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<v Speaker 3>and it was this horrific case that I was telling

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<v Speaker 3>him about. He's like, not in a million years, you

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<v Speaker 3>would have to kill me first before I said I

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00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:10.079
<v Speaker 3>hurt my baby, and I said, I don't think that's true.

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<v Speaker 3>I started to tell him, you know, look, Rebel, when

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<v Speaker 3>you look at the read techniques, the way police are

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<v Speaker 3>actually trained in their academies and in the real world

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<v Speaker 3>of how to interrogate somebody, they are pure psychological coercion. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>they're incredible techniques. Yes they get confessions from really horrible

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<v Speaker 3>people or people who have done really horrible things. But

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<v Speaker 3>they also are manipulative. And when you have someone who's tired,

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<v Speaker 3>when you have someone who has, you know, mental health

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<v Speaker 3>issues or maybe a lower cognitive ability, or are young,

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<v Speaker 3>it's very easy to manipulate people's memories and so it's scary.

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<v Speaker 3>My students always start the semester by saying, I would

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<v Speaker 3>never ever, just like Rebel did. And by the end

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<v Speaker 3>you have rebel who now says, please don't die or

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to be falsely accused, and who knows what

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<v Speaker 3>they'll do to me if I'm held in an interrogation room.

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<v Speaker 3>So once people do sit down and understand the facts,

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<v Speaker 3>I think over time they can see how it happens.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think a jury who's thrust into a decision

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<v Speaker 3>box and said, hey, in the next week, you're going

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<v Speaker 3>to decide this man's fate, I just don't think you

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<v Speaker 3>can convince them in that short time that this happens.

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<v Speaker 2>Another issue with Damon's trial is that he was represented

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<v Speaker 2>by a public defender who happened to be a former

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<v Speaker 2>police detective. Damon did not know this at the time,

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00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:33.720
<v Speaker 2>but his lawyer was actually in the midst of arranging

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<v Speaker 2>a transfer to the District attorney's office, and well, you

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<v Speaker 2>probably can't rely on someone like that to provide you

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<v Speaker 2>with the best defense on the other side of the coin,

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<v Speaker 2>One thing which really stands out about this case is

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that the prosecutor who put Damon away, Jefferson

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<v Speaker 2>Parish District Attorney Paul Connick Junior, actually worked with Damon's

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<v Speaker 2>legal team to help get his conviction overturned and had

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<v Speaker 2>no qualms about dropping the charges once it became apparent

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<v Speaker 2>to him that Damon was innocent. As sad as this

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<v Speaker 2>is to say, it's extraordinarily rare for prosecutors to admit

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<v Speaker 2>they made a mistake and put the wrong person in prison,

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<v Speaker 2>as they will often double down and stick to their

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<v Speaker 2>guns even when faced with overwhelming evidence. Ironically, one prosecutor

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<v Speaker 2>who had a notorious reputation for doing this is Paul

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<v Speaker 2>Konnick Junior's uncle, Harry Connick Senior, the former District Attorney

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<v Speaker 2>of Orleans Parish whose office has had a long checkered

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<v Speaker 2>history of wrong convictions and sending innocent people to death row.

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<v Speaker 2>And yes, Harry Connic Senior also happens to be the

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<v Speaker 2>father of the famous jazz singer slash actor Harry Connick Junior.

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<v Speaker 2>But thankfully, Paul Konnick Junior seems to have a much

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<v Speaker 2>different attitude about justice than his uncle. To be fair,

384
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<v Speaker 2>even though he presided over Damon's trial, he did not

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<v Speaker 2>actually get elected to the position of District attorney until

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00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:52.039
<v Speaker 2>six months after Damon's arrest, so it's not like he

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<v Speaker 2>was personally responsible for railroading him, and he genuinely believed

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<v Speaker 2>that he was doing the right thing at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Many prosecutors are unwilling to admit to their mistakes for

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<v Speaker 2>fear that it will damage their career. But here we

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<v Speaker 2>are in twenty twenty five, and Konik has been reelected

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<v Speaker 2>several times and is now entering his twenty eighth year

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<v Speaker 2>as Jefferson Parish District Attorney. So I'm taking this as

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<v Speaker 2>a hopeful sign that honesty does pay off.

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<v Speaker 3>Sometimes I would prefer to vote for someone that I

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<v Speaker 3>know truly holds justice at the core of their moral

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<v Speaker 3>and ethical beliefs. Right that you are someone who says,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm always going to fight the hardest to have a safe,

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<v Speaker 3>healthy community. But if I get it wrong, if I

400
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:37.839
<v Speaker 3>happen to look at evidence in one way and years

401
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.119
<v Speaker 3>later it's shown to me that that way I looked

402
00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:43.759
<v Speaker 3>at that evidence is not accurate. That I'm mature and

403
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:48.000
<v Speaker 3>moral and ethical enough to say something went wrong and

404
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.799
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to fix it because that is justice. Right.

405
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:53.359
<v Speaker 3>You can't ever make up to Damon and his family

406
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:56.119
<v Speaker 3>what you did and what you took away from him.

407
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.240
<v Speaker 3>But if you're always operating in a transparent light of

408
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<v Speaker 3>saying I fight hard, but I'm gonna fight fair and

409
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<v Speaker 3>I want to make sure the right person's behind bars.

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<v Speaker 3>To me, wow, that makes you incredibly more attractive as

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<v Speaker 3>a candidate and as a prosecutor. But I do think

412
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<v Speaker 3>you look at all kinds of institutions. Usually it's cover

413
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<v Speaker 3>your own rear end you do not fess up to

414
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<v Speaker 3>having any kind of problems or any kind of issues

415
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:25.039
<v Speaker 3>within your institution or your position or things like that,

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00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:28.640
<v Speaker 3>and people often put their career over what's ethically right.

417
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<v Speaker 3>The other problem that you mentioned, Robin, is that Damon

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<v Speaker 3>had a public defender who in and of themselves had

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<v Speaker 3>issues being about to be transferred to the district Attorney's

420
00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:41.119
<v Speaker 3>office and things like that. But when you have a

421
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.759
<v Speaker 3>public defender, there's a lot of amazing human beings who

422
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.519
<v Speaker 3>are in that position, and they do the best they can,

423
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:50.519
<v Speaker 3>even if they don't have these other ulterior motives and

424
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:54.359
<v Speaker 3>things happening like this this man did. But their caseloads

425
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:58.880
<v Speaker 3>are so overwhelming in most jurisdictions that rarely do they

426
00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:03.000
<v Speaker 3>have time to go sit down with their client. Rarely

427
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:06.920
<v Speaker 3>are they investing resources to go interview people to go

428
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:11.359
<v Speaker 3>you know, spend time to uncover evidence for their you know,

429
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.359
<v Speaker 3>the person they're defending, and so unlike a team that's

430
00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:18.039
<v Speaker 3>getting paid bookho's of money because they're a private attorney

431
00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:21.039
<v Speaker 3>for you. When you have a public defender, they're basically

432
00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:24.400
<v Speaker 3>picking up your file saying like, oh man, I'm sorry, Look,

433
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:26.079
<v Speaker 3>this is going to be a pretty tough case. Here's

434
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:28.359
<v Speaker 3>our best bet. Let's just go stand before the judge

435
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:32.519
<v Speaker 3>and see what happens. And in Damon's trial, it's very

436
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:37.200
<v Speaker 3>very apparent no one fought to uncover the truth because

437
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:41.160
<v Speaker 3>had his attorney really said I believe you, Damon, then

438
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:43.640
<v Speaker 3>you would have seen the ability for this case to

439
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:47.319
<v Speaker 3>turn out very, very differently because I believe enough reasonable

440
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:49.799
<v Speaker 3>doubt in questions could have been raised in his case.

441
00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:52.799
<v Speaker 1>And if they had somebody like you on the stand,

442
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.640
<v Speaker 1>they could have brought up something like Elizabeth Lostess's research

443
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:59.720
<v Speaker 1>which was available to them at the time, and she

444
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.160
<v Speaker 1>focused mostly on like the malleability of memories, and she

445
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.880
<v Speaker 1>did a bunch of different studies and they all showed

446
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:10.079
<v Speaker 1>that we as human beings, our memories are fallible and

447
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:13.599
<v Speaker 1>you can implant memories. She did one study I think

448
00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:16.480
<v Speaker 1>it was called the lost in the mall technique, and

449
00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:20.759
<v Speaker 1>she found out that it was basically telling people that

450
00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.279
<v Speaker 1>they had been lost in the mall, if I'm remembering correctly.

451
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.640
<v Speaker 1>And then at the end, seventy five percent of people

452
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.759
<v Speaker 1>were like, no, I wasn't lost in the mall. You

453
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.799
<v Speaker 1>basically just told me that. But then twenty five percent

454
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:35.000
<v Speaker 1>of people believed that it actually happened. And those are

455
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>likely the people, in my opinion, who would be susceptible

456
00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.039
<v Speaker 1>to false confessions, and they had access to a lot

457
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:44.599
<v Speaker 1>of this information prior. It was just knowing which expert

458
00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:46.279
<v Speaker 1>to be able to bring to the stand, to be

459
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:49.759
<v Speaker 1>able to share that information somebody would be incredibly valuable.

460
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:51.519
<v Speaker 1>But like Ash just said, and I think it is

461
00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:54.480
<v Speaker 1>such an important point in these cases, is that public

462
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.839
<v Speaker 1>defenders just aren't equipped. They have an incredible case load,

463
00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:02.200
<v Speaker 1>they're so busy at overworked, and they don't have the

464
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:05.119
<v Speaker 1>budget in order to be able to get these expert

465
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:07.240
<v Speaker 1>witnesses to come and testify.

466
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:10.000
<v Speaker 3>And think about it too. Let's say it wasn't there

467
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:13.440
<v Speaker 3>weren't any political issues or anything going on. You have

468
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:15.880
<v Speaker 3>seventy five cases on your desk, and it's time to

469
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.119
<v Speaker 3>go to Damon's trial, right, and you go meet him

470
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:21.200
<v Speaker 3>real quick. All you have is that he falsely con

471
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:23.559
<v Speaker 3>or that he confessed to this crime. And so in

472
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:25.599
<v Speaker 3>the back of many people's head you'd be like, oh

473
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:28.119
<v Speaker 3>my gosh, this guy's guilty. I'm just going to try

474
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:29.799
<v Speaker 3>to represent him the best of my ability so that

475
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:32.160
<v Speaker 3>his constitutional rights are met, and let's just get this

476
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.839
<v Speaker 3>over with. It's one more case on my desk.

477
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:35.079
<v Speaker 2>Right.

478
00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.880
<v Speaker 3>There just isn't that loyalty to say, Okay, I'm going

479
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:41.599
<v Speaker 3>to do this deep pursuit of justice, not because there

480
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.079
<v Speaker 3>isn't a desire to, there isn't the time to do that.

481
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:47.960
<v Speaker 3>And so I think when they saw that Damon had

482
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:51.519
<v Speaker 3>falsely confessed, but that had he had a confession on

483
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:54.039
<v Speaker 3>the record, and then now he wants to pull that back,

484
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:56.200
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people would assume, well, that's because you're

485
00:25:56.440 --> 00:25:58.519
<v Speaker 3>you're literally up for the death penalty and things like that.

486
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:00.640
<v Speaker 3>So sorry, buddy, we just got to get through this

487
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.119
<v Speaker 3>case the best possible. Maybe you won't be given death.

488
00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:04.160
<v Speaker 3>And here he was.

489
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.079
<v Speaker 1>But even though Connick was willing to admit the error

490
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:11.079
<v Speaker 1>of his ways, it appears the same can not be

491
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.720
<v Speaker 1>said for the Jefferson parish Sheriff's office, who continued to

492
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:17.559
<v Speaker 1>stick to their guns and insists that they arrested the

493
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:21.960
<v Speaker 1>right man even after Damon was released from prison. As

494
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:24.839
<v Speaker 1>you might recall, Damon claimed that he raped Crystal during

495
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:28.000
<v Speaker 1>his confession, even though no semen was found on her

496
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:31.079
<v Speaker 1>body or anywhere else at the scene. And I must

497
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:34.799
<v Speaker 1>say that the state's explanation about Meggot's consuming all of

498
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Damon's seminal fluids before Crystal's body was found is one

499
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.160
<v Speaker 1>of the most laughably absurd things that I've ever heard

500
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:45.960
<v Speaker 1>in a wrongful conviction case. When the British newspaper The

501
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.799
<v Speaker 1>Guardian published an article about this, they perfectly summed up

502
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:53.359
<v Speaker 1>the situation with this sentence. And lest there be any

503
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.880
<v Speaker 1>remaining doubt, a forensic expert on maggots such people do exist,

504
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:03.079
<v Speaker 1>testified that the theory of Stephen destroying maggots was balderdash.

505
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:09.680
<v Speaker 3>Absolute balderdash. I agree, this is absolutely insane. Damon when

506
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:12.039
<v Speaker 3>he said that he had raped her, it's because the

507
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:14.799
<v Speaker 3>police had added that into the narrative that they had

508
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.400
<v Speaker 3>him say. Remember, they only recorded what the last forty

509
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:21.720
<v Speaker 3>five minutes of a nine hour interrogation, and so when

510
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:24.559
<v Speaker 3>you have this story that Damon tells at the end.

511
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:28.079
<v Speaker 3>It has been crafted over and over again, and every

512
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.920
<v Speaker 3>time he tells it, the police recount and say, hey,

513
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:33.039
<v Speaker 3>why don't you try that again, Damon, that's not how

514
00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:36.160
<v Speaker 3>she was killed. Tell us the truth, Damon that come on, now,

515
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:39.720
<v Speaker 3>her clothes were up around her breast and you know

516
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:42.039
<v Speaker 3>her pants had been pulled down. Come on, go ahead

517
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:44.000
<v Speaker 3>and tell us that story again, what you really did

518
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.759
<v Speaker 3>to her. And so they'll add in these details or

519
00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:51.519
<v Speaker 3>say that's not right, tell me again, until you're telling

520
00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:54.039
<v Speaker 3>them a story that fits the evidence that they believe

521
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:56.640
<v Speaker 3>that they have here. They thought that Crystal had been

522
00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:59.720
<v Speaker 3>raped and or there was a high potential and so

523
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.200
<v Speaker 3>so when you look at this idea that he says that,

524
00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:05.440
<v Speaker 3>and then when they find her there's no evidence of that,

525
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.319
<v Speaker 3>they have to somehow explain away how they could be

526
00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:12.400
<v Speaker 3>wrong and Damon could still be the killer. And it's

527
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.920
<v Speaker 3>just it's kind of asinine. But that's why we should

528
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:19.039
<v Speaker 3>record every minute of an interrogation. If I have to

529
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:21.680
<v Speaker 3>tell you twenty five versions to get the story you like,

530
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:25.160
<v Speaker 3>as a police officer, something's wrong. That should raise red

531
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:26.240
<v Speaker 3>flags for everybody.

532
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:29.559
<v Speaker 2>And yes, That's why you check the evidence before you

533
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:32.359
<v Speaker 2>bring in someone for interrogation to make a confession, because

534
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:34.960
<v Speaker 2>obviously if they say I raped the victim and there's

535
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.519
<v Speaker 2>no semen found, then you have to run circles and

536
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.160
<v Speaker 2>twist everything in the knots trying to fake the evidence

537
00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:43.000
<v Speaker 2>match your case. And I was almost hoping that Jewels

538
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:45.240
<v Speaker 2>would have read that last sentence in a British accent,

539
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:49.200
<v Speaker 2>because I love the term baldadash.

540
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:49.640
<v Speaker 1>So.

541
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Like I mentioned earlier, one of the biggest tragedies of

542
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:55.359
<v Speaker 2>wrongful conviction cases is that there's so much focus on

543
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:58.079
<v Speaker 2>the person who is unjustly sent to prison that the

544
00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:02.400
<v Speaker 2>actual victim of the crime is often overlooked. Damon Thibadeau's

545
00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:05.200
<v Speaker 2>story has been well documented, but there's really not all

546
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:09.519
<v Speaker 2>that much information out there about Crystal Champagne and her life.

547
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.920
<v Speaker 2>All I know is that everyone who knew Crystel described

548
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:13.839
<v Speaker 2>her as a good kid, and it seems like she

549
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:16.359
<v Speaker 2>just happened to cross paths with the wrong person on

550
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:18.799
<v Speaker 2>what should have been a routine trip to the supermarket.

551
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I get the impression that after Damon was charged with

552
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Crystel's murder, her parents Don and CJ were convinced that

553
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:27.799
<v Speaker 2>he did it, even though there was a good chance

554
00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:30.680
<v Speaker 2>that Damon was actually at the apartment at the exact

555
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.559
<v Speaker 2>time Crystal was killed, and the timeline would have made

556
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.759
<v Speaker 2>it impossible for him to commit the crime. This case

557
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.960
<v Speaker 2>was featured on forty eight Hours in March of twenty fourteen,

558
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:43.160
<v Speaker 2>and it featured interviews with Don who was still emotionally

559
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:45.920
<v Speaker 2>distraught about the loss of her daughter, but it's unclear

560
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:48.519
<v Speaker 2>if she changed her mind about Damon's guilt after his

561
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:52.519
<v Speaker 2>conviction was overturned. It sounds like Wendness is recalled seeing

562
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.039
<v Speaker 2>Crystal at the wind Dixie supermarket on the night she

563
00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:57.920
<v Speaker 2>was killed, so she likely cross passed with her killer

564
00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:01.440
<v Speaker 2>after she left. And since Crystal was found in Bridge City,

565
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:04.400
<v Speaker 2>which is five miles away, it's reasonable to assume that

566
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:07.000
<v Speaker 2>she was taken to the location in the vehicle. But

567
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:10.039
<v Speaker 2>was she forcibly abducted or did she climb into the

568
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:12.759
<v Speaker 2>vehicle of her own relition. Could she have been offered

569
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:16.039
<v Speaker 2>a ride by someone she knew and trusted. It's interesting

570
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:18.839
<v Speaker 2>how Crystal's body was partially nude, as her shirt was

571
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.279
<v Speaker 2>pulled up and her shorts and underwear were pulled down,

572
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:23.960
<v Speaker 2>but that perpetrator never actually went through the act of

573
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:27.480
<v Speaker 2>raping her, something obviously drove them into a violent rage,

574
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:31.079
<v Speaker 2>since they severely beat Crystal before. Stranglier, though, it is

575
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:33.400
<v Speaker 2>odd that they would leave the murder weapon the red

576
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:35.960
<v Speaker 2>industrial wire tied to a tree at the scene.

577
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:40.799
<v Speaker 3>It's really bizarre. I definitely it feels like Crystal would

578
00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:44.200
<v Speaker 3>have known the person that abducted her.

579
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Right.

580
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:47.640
<v Speaker 3>This should have been just a normal routine walk to

581
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:50.680
<v Speaker 3>the grocery store, like you said. But if she had

582
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:54.640
<v Speaker 3>gotten into someone's vehicle, it's very possible she knew them

583
00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:56.200
<v Speaker 3>and maybe they said like, hey, we'll give you a

584
00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:57.599
<v Speaker 3>ride up to the store, Hey, do you want us

585
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:00.319
<v Speaker 3>to give you a ride home? And she went with

586
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.960
<v Speaker 3>them because why not? I trust you. It's also possible

587
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:06.720
<v Speaker 3>that someone you know, asked for help or said, you know, hey,

588
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:09.880
<v Speaker 3>can you give me directions somewhere, and they overpowered her

589
00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:11.920
<v Speaker 3>when she was leaning towards the car, or something of

590
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.319
<v Speaker 3>that nature. But it's very, very possible that this is

591
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:17.480
<v Speaker 3>someone that she knew, which is why I think they

592
00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:21.400
<v Speaker 3>immediately went to Damon. Although his connection was quite loose

593
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:25.400
<v Speaker 3>to her, like they weren't best friends or anything like that.

594
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:29.400
<v Speaker 3>He had asked her to or she had asked him

595
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:32.000
<v Speaker 3>how did that work? She had asked him to hang out.

596
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:33.880
<v Speaker 2>She had asked him for a ride to the supermarket,

597
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.319
<v Speaker 2>and he said no. When you're thinking to yourself, if

598
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:38.559
<v Speaker 2>he was looking to like, sexually assault her, he would

599
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:40.960
<v Speaker 2>have said yes instantly and then drove her out to

600
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:41.960
<v Speaker 2>this location.

601
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:44.680
<v Speaker 3>Right, And he didn't. He said no, I'm actually going

602
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:47.440
<v Speaker 3>to hang out here, and so I don't think then

603
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:49.559
<v Speaker 3>he would go, oh, I'm going to go find her

604
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:52.400
<v Speaker 3>and assault her and you know, accidentally kill her or

605
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.160
<v Speaker 3>purposely kill her. To me, it seemed like it would

606
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:58.759
<v Speaker 3>be somebody else who had been seeking after Crystal and or,

607
00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:00.960
<v Speaker 3>like I said, some one who happened to see her

608
00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:03.319
<v Speaker 3>as just an opportune person to abduct at the time.

609
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:07.559
<v Speaker 1>Now, because Damon was charged with the crimes so quickly

610
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:11.519
<v Speaker 1>after Cristel's body was discovered, police never really performed a

611
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:16.680
<v Speaker 1>thorough investigation into other potential suspects, but there were apparently

612
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:19.920
<v Speaker 1>multiple individuals who lived in the area who appeared to

613
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:22.920
<v Speaker 1>be more likely candidates to have committed a crime like this.

614
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:27.880
<v Speaker 1>There aren't many specific details about these individuals, but there

615
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:31.480
<v Speaker 1>was apparently one relative of Crystal's who lived in an

616
00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:34.799
<v Speaker 1>apartment two blocks from the crime scene, and he was

617
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.640
<v Speaker 1>a paranoid schizophrenic with a history of drug abuse and

618
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:41.880
<v Speaker 1>violence against women. Crystal also had friends in Bridge City,

619
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.279
<v Speaker 1>and one of them would later go on to receive

620
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.119
<v Speaker 1>a life sentence in prison for the aggravated rape of

621
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:51.200
<v Speaker 1>a juvenile. However, the one alternate suspect who has risen

622
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.039
<v Speaker 1>the most eyebrows is the person who found Crystal's body,

623
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:56.400
<v Speaker 1>John Tomlinson.

624
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.680
<v Speaker 3>So when you look at John Tomlinson, of course he's

625
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:03.039
<v Speaker 3>someone the police should have a questioned and talked to

626
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:05.359
<v Speaker 3>you because he found the body. I don't know any

627
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.799
<v Speaker 3>other details yet about who and how John Tomlinson would

628
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:11.720
<v Speaker 3>be linked to Crystal and her murder, But anytime you

629
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:14.400
<v Speaker 3>have the discovery of a body, you have to at

630
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:18.519
<v Speaker 3>least start by exploring that individual or the individuals who

631
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:22.319
<v Speaker 3>found the body and see how you can eliminate them

632
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:25.599
<v Speaker 3>from being the person who could have injured that person.

633
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:28.079
<v Speaker 3>Because again, especially if their bodies found not in a

634
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:31.799
<v Speaker 3>very public location, how and why did you happen to

635
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:35.759
<v Speaker 3>go to that area and find her? That needs an explanation.

636
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so here's some more information about John Tomlinson. We

637
00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:43.200
<v Speaker 2>already mentioned his name in our last episode, but here's

638
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:46.160
<v Speaker 2>some more backstory about him. At the time, he was

639
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:49.480
<v Speaker 2>the boyfriend of Stacy Mulanson, the family friend and neighbor

640
00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:52.640
<v Speaker 2>who called the police to report the discovery of Crystal's body,

641
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.559
<v Speaker 2>and John also lived in the same apartment complex as

642
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:59.319
<v Speaker 2>the Champagne family. On July the eighteenth, Stacey had actually

643
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:02.599
<v Speaker 2>gone out drinking with Damon, Don and CJ and paid

644
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Crystal to spend the night babysitting her children. Stacy then

645
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:08.840
<v Speaker 2>brought Crystal home at two pm the following afternoon, just

646
00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:12.039
<v Speaker 2>over three hours before she left to go to the supermarket.

647
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.559
<v Speaker 2>Sometime between five thirty and six pm on July the twentieth,

648
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.079
<v Speaker 2>while Crystal was still missing, Stacy picked John Tomlinson up

649
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.360
<v Speaker 2>at a shipyard as he worked as a deckhand on

650
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:24.920
<v Speaker 2>a tugboat. They proceeded to continue searching for Crystal by

651
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:27.480
<v Speaker 2>handing out missing persons flyers, and when they stopped at

652
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.679
<v Speaker 2>a Circle Cake convenience store in Bridge City, two eye

653
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:33.679
<v Speaker 2>witnesses recognized Crystal from her flyer and told him they

654
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:35.800
<v Speaker 2>had seen her walking along the levee next to the

655
00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Mississippi River the previous night. But here's where things get odd.

656
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:43.400
<v Speaker 2>It was John's idea to drive Stacy to the levee

657
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:45.920
<v Speaker 2>to search for Crystal, but even though the witnesses said

658
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:47.760
<v Speaker 2>they had seen her about a mile away from the

659
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:51.519
<v Speaker 2>Huey Plung Bridge, John drove directly to the wooded area

660
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.559
<v Speaker 2>underneath the bridge. He told Stacy to wait in the

661
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:57.280
<v Speaker 2>car while he performed his search, and after walking down

662
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:01.960
<v Speaker 2>a path into the wooded area, John soon discovered Crystal's body. Now,

663
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:04.639
<v Speaker 2>the main reason we know this information about John is

664
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:07.719
<v Speaker 2>because he agreed to be interviewed on the aforementioned forty

665
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:10.159
<v Speaker 2>eight Hours episode, where he said that he had a

666
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:14.559
<v Speaker 2>unique ability to dream things which came true. John claimed

667
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:16.679
<v Speaker 2>that he once had a vivid dream where he found

668
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:19.159
<v Speaker 2>Crystal's body and looked up to see the Huey p

669
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.320
<v Speaker 2>Long Bridge above him, which is why he felt compelled

670
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:24.320
<v Speaker 2>to stop the car and search for her body in

671
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.320
<v Speaker 2>the wooded area underneath the bridge. Of course, at the

672
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:29.960
<v Speaker 2>time this happened, John never told the police about his

673
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.719
<v Speaker 2>so called dream and instead said that it was his

674
00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:37.280
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote intuition which helped him discover Crystal's body. To

675
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:40.239
<v Speaker 2>their credit, they did find this statement to be suspicious,

676
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:43.119
<v Speaker 2>so John was taken to the police station and interrogated

677
00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:47.119
<v Speaker 2>for hours. The problem David was interrogated right down the

678
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:50.519
<v Speaker 2>hallway at the exact same time, and when he confessed

679
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.159
<v Speaker 2>to Crystal's murder, John was no longer the focus of

680
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.320
<v Speaker 2>the investigation, right.

681
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.719
<v Speaker 3>I mean, here you have again, you have John who says, hey,

682
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:03.039
<v Speaker 3>I had this dream that her body would be located here.

683
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:05.360
<v Speaker 3>Do I believe there are people who have a gift

684
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:08.719
<v Speaker 3>to see visions or have you know, even a gift

685
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.960
<v Speaker 3>from the Holy Spirit or or whatever you believe that

686
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:14.480
<v Speaker 3>says hey, here's a vision of what I want you

687
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:19.199
<v Speaker 3>to know and see. Yes, does is that a common gift?

688
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:22.599
<v Speaker 3>I don't think so, And so I'd be very very

689
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:25.239
<v Speaker 3>suspicious if someone raised that to me. And like you said,

690
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:27.119
<v Speaker 3>you know, we talked about this just a minute ago.

691
00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:29.199
<v Speaker 3>If it was in a public location, let's say she's

692
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.400
<v Speaker 3>not on a park bench in the French Quarter, it's

693
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:35.039
<v Speaker 3>not that suspicious when someone says, hey, there's a body.

694
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.679
<v Speaker 3>I just found a body. But this was a very bizarre,

695
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:41.559
<v Speaker 3>hidden away location that he just felt quote compelled to

696
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:45.599
<v Speaker 3>go check. That is highly suspicious. And like you said,

697
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:48.519
<v Speaker 3>what would have happened had Damon not been the one

698
00:36:48.519 --> 00:36:51.800
<v Speaker 3>that they had already laser focused and narrowly focused their

699
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:54.480
<v Speaker 3>view on. What if they had been open minded at

700
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:58.039
<v Speaker 3>the time and said, Damon's one possibility, we really need

701
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:01.239
<v Speaker 3>to dig deep into John, who's across the hall Instead,

702
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:03.119
<v Speaker 3>I think they had blinders on, and I think they

703
00:37:03.159 --> 00:37:06.360
<v Speaker 3>went after Damon with this laser. You know, we know

704
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:10.760
<v Speaker 3>he's guilty. We're gonna prove it, instead of saying, just

705
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:13.280
<v Speaker 3>do things automatically line up with Damon? Are there some

706
00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:15.800
<v Speaker 3>questions here? Maybe we should be widening our net. What

707
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:17.800
<v Speaker 3>would have happened They had a person right across the

708
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:21.400
<v Speaker 3>hallway from him who might have also had some issues

709
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:23.800
<v Speaker 3>that they needed to explore further, and they just didn't.

710
00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:26.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just pretty mind blowing to me that they

711
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:28.760
<v Speaker 2>have two people in custody and one of them seems

712
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:31.000
<v Speaker 2>to have an alibi who can place himself in the

713
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:34.039
<v Speaker 2>company of other people during the time period when Crystal

714
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.960
<v Speaker 2>was murdered, and this other guy, John Tomlinson, who says

715
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.599
<v Speaker 2>that he found her body in a concealed location because

716
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:43.440
<v Speaker 2>of a dream and his quote unquote intuition. So obviously,

717
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:45.800
<v Speaker 2>if you compare the two, John obviously looks a lot

718
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:48.800
<v Speaker 2>more suspicious, but I guess because Damon was taken in

719
00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.199
<v Speaker 2>for interrogation much earlier. He was the one who confessed,

720
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:54.599
<v Speaker 2>and I do believe that led the investigation under the

721
00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:55.840
<v Speaker 2>completely wrong direction.

722
00:37:57.039 --> 00:37:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, on the basis of his interview on forty eight Hours,

723
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:05.039
<v Speaker 1>John Tomlinson definitely comes across as an odd individual. There

724
00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:08.760
<v Speaker 1>are numerous documented cases where a murder victim's body wound

725
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:12.320
<v Speaker 1>up being discovered by their killer, and they'll sometimes arrange

726
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:15.119
<v Speaker 1>this because they believe finding the body will help take

727
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:19.519
<v Speaker 1>suspicion off themselves. But this case is particularly troubling because

728
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:23.239
<v Speaker 1>the eyewitness who reported seeing Crystal placed her on the levee,

729
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:26.039
<v Speaker 1>about a mile from the location her body was found,

730
00:38:26.760 --> 00:38:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Yet John did not even bother to search there and

731
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:33.159
<v Speaker 1>instead drove straight to the wooded area. Her body was

732
00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:36.199
<v Speaker 1>pretty well concealed, and there's no way anyone could have

733
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.320
<v Speaker 1>seen it from the levee unless they made a calculated

734
00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:42.679
<v Speaker 1>decision to walk down a path into the trees, which

735
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.159
<v Speaker 1>is what John decided to do. He otherwise should have

736
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:49.719
<v Speaker 1>had no reason to believe Cristel was there, except that

737
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:53.079
<v Speaker 1>he was supposedly following the whims of a dream. This

738
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:56.159
<v Speaker 1>is a big enough red flag, but what's even more

739
00:38:56.159 --> 00:39:01.159
<v Speaker 1>disturbing is that, unlike Damon, John was a document sex offender,

740
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:04.840
<v Speaker 1>as two years before Cristel's murder, he served time in

741
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:08.800
<v Speaker 1>prison after being convicted of indecent behavior with a juvenile.

742
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Now during his forty eight hours interview, John explained this

743
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.920
<v Speaker 1>by claiming that he had sexual contact with a girl

744
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.440
<v Speaker 1>that he picked up at a bar, whom he believed

745
00:39:18.440 --> 00:39:22.559
<v Speaker 1>was eighteen but did not realize that she was actually fourteen.

746
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:25.400
<v Speaker 1>But given the Crystal was fourteen at the time of

747
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:29.119
<v Speaker 1>her death, this might suggest a pattern of predatory behavior.

748
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:33.239
<v Speaker 1>Since the Champagne family was close friends with John's girlfriend

749
00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:36.800
<v Speaker 1>and he lived in the same apartment complex, John certainly

750
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:39.639
<v Speaker 1>would have known who Cristel was, and is reasonable to

751
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:42.719
<v Speaker 1>assume that she might have trusted John enough to climb

752
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.559
<v Speaker 1>into a vehicle with him.

753
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:46.480
<v Speaker 3>And also he could have been in a position where

754
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:49.760
<v Speaker 3>he watched her and fantasized about her and had this

755
00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:51.920
<v Speaker 3>kind of you know, she is a part of his

756
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:54.480
<v Speaker 3>quote circle and he wanted it to be something more

757
00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:59.840
<v Speaker 3>than that. So he definitely had more access and ability

758
00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:03.599
<v Speaker 3>to to kind of pervert the relationship that he had

759
00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:05.920
<v Speaker 3>with her. I could see her one trusting him, But

760
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:07.760
<v Speaker 3>I could also see him being in a position where

761
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:10.440
<v Speaker 3>he said, I know her well enough to manipulate her,

762
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:13.480
<v Speaker 3>and he could he could have been the one to

763
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:16.559
<v Speaker 3>hurt her again. What's interesting. Do I believe that people

764
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:19.679
<v Speaker 3>can be given a vision? Absolutely, I truly do. My faith.

765
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.360
<v Speaker 3>My faith preaches that, right, But it's not something that

766
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.159
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people have. And in this case, John

767
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:28.000
<v Speaker 3>doesn't seem like the kind of person who's, you know,

768
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:31.119
<v Speaker 3>using this in any kind of other situation, except for

769
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:33.880
<v Speaker 3>the one moment he needs to walk down a unique

770
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:36.880
<v Speaker 3>path that the hidden location and find her body where

771
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:39.239
<v Speaker 3>most anybody else would have passed by it or never

772
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:43.000
<v Speaker 3>seen it. It just seems very very suspicious, right. It's

773
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:44.760
<v Speaker 3>not like everyone would be like, oh my gosh, we

774
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:46.639
<v Speaker 3>know that about John. You know, he's always the one

775
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:50.159
<v Speaker 3>telling us I feel this, I sense this, I worry

776
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.840
<v Speaker 3>about this because I have this feeling. We don't. No

777
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:54.840
<v Speaker 3>one has said that about John. Right, This is just

778
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:57.760
<v Speaker 3>this one time he seems to have this divine gift

779
00:40:58.079 --> 00:40:59.920
<v Speaker 3>and it led him to the body of someone he knew.

780
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a very good point, because I've seen many

781
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.960
<v Speaker 2>other documented cases where these so called psychics will read

782
00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:07.679
<v Speaker 2>about a case in the paper and say they have

783
00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:10.199
<v Speaker 2>a vision where their body might be. Well, they'll do

784
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:12.960
<v Speaker 2>it multiple times because they just want to insert themselves

785
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:15.440
<v Speaker 2>in the investigation. But like you said, I don't think

786
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:18.599
<v Speaker 2>there are any other documented cases besides this one where

787
00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:20.519
<v Speaker 2>John Ever said that he had a dream that he

788
00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:22.199
<v Speaker 2>knew where someone had been murdered.

789
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:26.079
<v Speaker 1>I will say that I have had psychic dreams on

790
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:29.320
<v Speaker 1>several occasions that have accurately predicted things that I've told

791
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:33.000
<v Speaker 1>people about before they happened. But I wouldn't consider myself

792
00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:35.599
<v Speaker 1>to be a psychic. It's not something that happens often.

793
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.159
<v Speaker 1>It's just something that has happened to me on several occasions.

794
00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:42.880
<v Speaker 1>And I think all human beings have that ability, particularly

795
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:45.079
<v Speaker 1>when it's things that are tied to our own lives

796
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:47.880
<v Speaker 1>and our subconscious is interfering. I mean, if we think

797
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:51.719
<v Speaker 1>of time as this artificial construct, it isn't linear in

798
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:55.199
<v Speaker 1>the way that we humans perceive it, according to Einstein

799
00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:58.519
<v Speaker 1>and according to physicists, So if everything is happening all

800
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.840
<v Speaker 1>at once, then potentially we're just tapping into something that

801
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:05.199
<v Speaker 1>we already know but we just don't have access to

802
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:08.960
<v Speaker 1>because we experience time in a linear fashion. I don't

803
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:11.760
<v Speaker 1>know how to explain psychic phenomenon, but it does happen.

804
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:14.719
<v Speaker 1>But it is a little bit of a red flag

805
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:18.039
<v Speaker 1>when we think of this, isn't something like Ashley said

806
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:21.800
<v Speaker 1>that people are bringing up often being like, yo, yes,

807
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:25.920
<v Speaker 1>he is a psychic, he's very sensitive. He has these

808
00:42:26.119 --> 00:42:29.480
<v Speaker 1>dreams on a regular basis. But then it just all

809
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:33.559
<v Speaker 1>of a sudden happens when it's discovering the murdered body

810
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:38.880
<v Speaker 1>of Crystal Champagne. That is a red flag. So just

811
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:41.360
<v Speaker 1>the context of it all, and then him going to

812
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:44.400
<v Speaker 1>this wooded area, it's like either he has this gift

813
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:48.199
<v Speaker 1>that just touched him once or he's the one that's responsible.

814
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Now we're not necessarily saying that John murdered Crystal, but

815
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:54.719
<v Speaker 2>if he was the killer, it's pretty mind blowing that

816
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:57.400
<v Speaker 2>he was being interrogated at the exact same time as

817
00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Damon and the police may have wound up charging the

818
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.360
<v Speaker 2>John even admitted that they pushed him pretty hard during

819
00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:06.639
<v Speaker 2>his interrogation, so it's possible he could have eventually cracked

820
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.639
<v Speaker 2>and confessed to the crime. If he was guilty. For

821
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:12.079
<v Speaker 2>all we know, Damon may have unknowingly let the real

822
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:15.760
<v Speaker 2>perpetrator off the hook by confessing. I certainly don't blame

823
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:18.519
<v Speaker 2>the police for looking at both men as potential suspects,

824
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:21.639
<v Speaker 2>but considering that there was zero evidence against Damon, you

825
00:43:21.719 --> 00:43:23.639
<v Speaker 2>think they would be more focused on the guy who

826
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:26.400
<v Speaker 2>actually found the victim's body and was unable to come

827
00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:29.920
<v Speaker 2>up with a logical explanation to account for it. However,

828
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:32.199
<v Speaker 2>before we bring the hammer down on John, we have

829
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:34.800
<v Speaker 2>to acknowledge that he did have an alibi for the

830
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:37.519
<v Speaker 2>time period when Crystal was murdered, which is why he

831
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:41.360
<v Speaker 2>was not investigated any further by the police. We mentioned

832
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:44.000
<v Speaker 2>earlier that John worked as a deckhand on a tugboat

833
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:46.360
<v Speaker 2>which was cruising down the Mississippi River on the night

834
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:49.480
<v Speaker 2>of the crime. The boat's logs showed that John was

835
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:52.159
<v Speaker 2>on board, and he said he was sleeping when Stacy

836
00:43:52.239 --> 00:43:55.320
<v Speaker 2>called to inform him that Crystal was missing. But there's

837
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:58.679
<v Speaker 2>been some question about how reliable these logs were because,

838
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:02.159
<v Speaker 2>by John's own admission, it wasn't uncommon for crew members

839
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:05.039
<v Speaker 2>to sneak off the boat without their supervisor's knowledge and

840
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:08.800
<v Speaker 2>cover for each other all the time. So theoretically John

841
00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:10.559
<v Speaker 2>could have left the boat while it was doc and

842
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:12.599
<v Speaker 2>snuck back on without anyone noticing.

843
00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:15.960
<v Speaker 3>And also keep in mind, he has a girlfriend, so

844
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:18.159
<v Speaker 3>there's a big reason for him to have this kind

845
00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:21.920
<v Speaker 3>of secretive, you know, secretive missions that he's going on

846
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:26.119
<v Speaker 3>or trying to escape without anyone knowing for a few hours.

847
00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:28.639
<v Speaker 3>So I think it's very possible. Yes, he might have

848
00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:33.480
<v Speaker 3>been a deckhand that night, but also he could have left.

849
00:44:33.519 --> 00:44:35.079
<v Speaker 3>Like you said, people could have covered for him. They

850
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:37.519
<v Speaker 3>might not have even known he was gone. So I

851
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:40.639
<v Speaker 3>think him having the girlfriend makes it where he had

852
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:43.960
<v Speaker 3>to make sure that his actions were very secretive, very purposeful,

853
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:49.159
<v Speaker 3>easy to cover up. And so I don't know, can

854
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:51.280
<v Speaker 3>we prove that he didn't know because the police didn't

855
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:54.599
<v Speaker 3>do their job and include him as a very probable

856
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:57.280
<v Speaker 3>suspect From the start, they considered him someone they just

857
00:44:57.320 --> 00:44:59.920
<v Speaker 3>needed to talk to, and by the time Damon's in there,

858
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.599
<v Speaker 3>they said, well, we have our guy, and they let

859
00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:02.920
<v Speaker 3>him go.

860
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:08.199
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting how John seems to contradict himself will discussing

861
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:11.519
<v Speaker 1>his alibi during his forty eight hours interview. So at

862
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:15.360
<v Speaker 1>one point Aaron Moriarty asks, now, at the time, though,

863
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:18.119
<v Speaker 1>you were told that it was impossible to get off

864
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:22.480
<v Speaker 1>the boat, and it wasn't, was it. John then replies, well, sure,

865
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:25.360
<v Speaker 1>you know. I mean, no, it's not. It never is,

866
00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:28.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, But I always let my boss know when

867
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:33.360
<v Speaker 1>I was getting off that boat. End quote. However, later on,

868
00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Moriarty asked John if he ever snuck off the boat

869
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:39.360
<v Speaker 1>to see Stacy, and he confirms that he did so

870
00:45:39.519 --> 00:45:42.400
<v Speaker 1>on a few occasions, and spent the night with Stacy

871
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:45.199
<v Speaker 1>instead of sleeping on the boat like he was supposed to.

872
00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:49.239
<v Speaker 1>But this admission seems to be a sharp contrast to

873
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:51.880
<v Speaker 1>his previous claim that he always let his boss know

874
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:56.079
<v Speaker 1>whenever he got off the boat. Of course, John denies

875
00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:58.239
<v Speaker 1>that he's snuck off the boat at any point on

876
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:02.280
<v Speaker 1>the evening of July nineteenth, nineteen ninety six, and if

877
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:05.000
<v Speaker 1>he is telling the truth, then he can be ruled

878
00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:08.760
<v Speaker 1>out as having any involvement in Cristel's murder. While we

879
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:12.000
<v Speaker 1>know that Crystal left her apartment at five fifteen PM

880
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:16.239
<v Speaker 1>and was likely killed sometime between seven and eight, we

881
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:20.039
<v Speaker 1>don't have any specific details about the exact whereabouts of

882
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:23.559
<v Speaker 1>the tugboat during this time period, so for all we know,

883
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:26.360
<v Speaker 1>it may have actually been impossible for John to have

884
00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:29.119
<v Speaker 1>committed this crime. Even if he sneaked off the boat

885
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:32.159
<v Speaker 1>and killed Crystal, he still would have had to sneak

886
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:35.079
<v Speaker 1>back on at some point, and if Stacy called him

887
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:37.119
<v Speaker 1>on the boat later that night to let him know

888
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Crystal was missing. Also, since Crystal was found five miles

889
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:43.960
<v Speaker 1>from the location where she was last seen, she probably

890
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:46.960
<v Speaker 1>would have needed someone with a vehicle to transport her there,

891
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:50.039
<v Speaker 1>and it's unclear if John had access to a vehicle

892
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:54.320
<v Speaker 1>at that time. Given the circumstances, it's possible that the

893
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:57.599
<v Speaker 1>logistics make it too difficult for John to commit the crime.

894
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:00.559
<v Speaker 1>But the issue is that Damon was charged with the

895
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:04.719
<v Speaker 1>murders so quickly, John never got the thorough investigation that

896
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:05.480
<v Speaker 1>he deserved.

897
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:09.480
<v Speaker 3>Exactly. He could be innocent too. He could have been

898
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:11.039
<v Speaker 3>in the same boat that Damon was in, and if

899
00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:14.039
<v Speaker 3>Damon hadn't been pulled in, John could have been innocent

900
00:47:14.199 --> 00:47:17.000
<v Speaker 3>and shown hey, look, we know you've snuck off before,

901
00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:19.320
<v Speaker 3>we know you're a liar, we know you knew where

902
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.480
<v Speaker 3>the body was, you did it, and who knows, John

903
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:25.639
<v Speaker 3>could have been the one falsely confessing, or it's possible

904
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:29.320
<v Speaker 3>John did it. But again, because the police so quickly

905
00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:34.079
<v Speaker 3>jumped on Damon, we just simply won't ever know now.

906
00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:36.320
<v Speaker 2>At the time I released my original Trail and Cold

907
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:39.280
<v Speaker 2>episode about this case back in twenty twenty one, I

908
00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:42.000
<v Speaker 2>had no idea of John's current whereabouts, but I was

909
00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:44.960
<v Speaker 2>later contacted by a source who confirmed me that John

910
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.920
<v Speaker 2>has since passed away. But I've always wondered if his

911
00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:51.119
<v Speaker 2>DNA was ever collected. Even though there was no seman

912
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:53.280
<v Speaker 2>found at the murder scene, there was a sample of

913
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:56.000
<v Speaker 2>blood with a male DNA profile on the red wire

914
00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:59.320
<v Speaker 2>used to strangle Crystal. We know it did not match Damon,

915
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.239
<v Speaker 2>but I would really liked to see it compare to

916
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:04.320
<v Speaker 2>John's DNA, as even if he has already deceased, this

917
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:06.840
<v Speaker 2>could still prove that he was responsible for the crime.

918
00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Unlike with many other wrongful conviction cases. The Jefferson Parish

919
00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:14.480
<v Speaker 2>District Attorney's office said they would reopen the investigation into

920
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:19.760
<v Speaker 2>Crystal's murder following Damon's exoneration in twenty twelve. Thankfully, they

921
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:22.199
<v Speaker 2>did not go the traditional route of closing the case

922
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:24.920
<v Speaker 2>and maintaining they got the right killer all along, But

923
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:28.840
<v Speaker 2>it's unclear how much investigation has actually been done. It's

924
00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:31.760
<v Speaker 2>possible they did take a closer look ato John Tomlinson

925
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:35.239
<v Speaker 2>and uncovered enough information to officially clear him as a suspect.

926
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:38.280
<v Speaker 2>But if not, I really wish investigators would do a

927
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:41.199
<v Speaker 2>DNA comparison so we can finally put this matter to

928
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:45.039
<v Speaker 2>rest once and for all. While Tomlinson's discovery of Crystal's

929
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:48.039
<v Speaker 2>body is still incredibly suspicious, there are way too many

930
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:50.920
<v Speaker 2>unanswered questions to say with one und present certainty that

931
00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:54.199
<v Speaker 2>he is the guilty party. Crystal may have simply been

932
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:57.239
<v Speaker 2>abducted by a random stranger with no personal connection to her,

933
00:48:57.480 --> 00:48:59.960
<v Speaker 2>But if John could be conclusively ruled out as being

934
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:02.920
<v Speaker 2>the killer, we can move on to other leads. As

935
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:05.280
<v Speaker 2>it stands right now, it's hard to believe that we're

936
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:07.920
<v Speaker 2>nearing the thirtieth anniversary of this crime and there are

937
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:12.719
<v Speaker 2>still no conclusive answers. Yes, Damon Thibodeau was technically exonerated,

938
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:15.119
<v Speaker 2>but his name will never truly be one hundred percent

939
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:18.519
<v Speaker 2>cleared unless the real perpetrator of the crime is identified.

940
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:21.239
<v Speaker 2>It's the least that can be done for Damon's legacy

941
00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:23.719
<v Speaker 2>now that he's no longer with us, and of course

942
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Crystal should not be forgotten either, as she definitely deserves justice.

943
00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:30.199
<v Speaker 2>So if you happen to have any information about the

944
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:35.159
<v Speaker 2>murder of Crystal Champagne, please contact the appropriate authorities. Jules

945
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Ashley any final thoughts on this case.

946
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:41.039
<v Speaker 3>Oh, this is one of those where justice is such

947
00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:45.599
<v Speaker 3>a complex term. Here you have not just Crystal who

948
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:48.679
<v Speaker 3>is yet to receive justice and her family who's sitting

949
00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:51.760
<v Speaker 3>there thinking what happened? Who did this? Why? Right? Can

950
00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:54.079
<v Speaker 3>we have some kind of answers and have the actual

951
00:49:54.119 --> 00:49:58.079
<v Speaker 3>person held to justice, But you also have Damon and

952
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:02.760
<v Speaker 3>his family. Damon passed away, so but his family who knows.

953
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:05.760
<v Speaker 3>In some ways, it's possible John has suspicion around him

954
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:10.119
<v Speaker 3>for no reason. But we don't have an answer yet.

955
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:12.239
<v Speaker 3>And one of the main reasons that we don't have

956
00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:14.679
<v Speaker 3>an answer is because there was such a rush to judgment.

957
00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:19.760
<v Speaker 3>Police officers kept Damon. They used techniques that manipulated and

958
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:23.039
<v Speaker 3>convinced him to tell a story that he knew was

959
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:25.840
<v Speaker 3>not true or maybe was starting to question, you know,

960
00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:29.039
<v Speaker 3>is it possible that it's true? And by the time

961
00:50:29.119 --> 00:50:31.920
<v Speaker 3>he had clarity and could say, hey, I need help,

962
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:35.320
<v Speaker 3>he was given a public defender, which did nothing to

963
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:38.840
<v Speaker 3>help his case, and thank god, like you said, you

964
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:43.880
<v Speaker 3>do see an ounce of ethical behavior by a prosecutor

965
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:45.880
<v Speaker 3>who's willing to look at the case years later and say,

966
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:48.239
<v Speaker 3>oh my gosh, I think I could have made a mistake.

967
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:51.679
<v Speaker 3>Let's look harder at this, and then actually advocated for

968
00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:54.880
<v Speaker 3>Damon to be released. That is rare, super rare for

969
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:58.599
<v Speaker 3>somebody to do, and so many kudos there. But you

970
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:01.119
<v Speaker 3>also have to think about Crystal's family when they thought

971
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:06.960
<v Speaker 3>that someone that they knew killed their daughter and he

972
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.440
<v Speaker 3>serves time in prison, so in their head, the right

973
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:13.239
<v Speaker 3>persons behind bars, he confessed, he's in prison, and then

974
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:16.280
<v Speaker 3>he gets exonerated. So there's a lot of guilt and

975
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:20.119
<v Speaker 3>kind of grief that re arises when you say, did

976
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:22.679
<v Speaker 3>they have the wrong person? Oh my god, the wrong

977
00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:25.760
<v Speaker 3>person was sentenced for her death. There's a lot of

978
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:28.239
<v Speaker 3>trauma that goes into that and having to relive this

979
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:31.599
<v Speaker 3>idea that they thought they had gotten answers. Those answers

980
00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:35.199
<v Speaker 3>were then reversed and they're still left wondering what happened,

981
00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:40.519
<v Speaker 3>really really tragic, difficult case. At this point, we simply

982
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:43.119
<v Speaker 3>don't know because not enough questions were asked in the

983
00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:44.199
<v Speaker 3>original investigation.

984
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:49.599
<v Speaker 1>My heart really hurts for both Damon Thibodeaux and Crystal

985
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Champagne and both of their families. Because Crystal was found murdered,

986
00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:59.400
<v Speaker 1>she deserved a proper investigation. Everybody should have been investigated

987
00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:02.639
<v Speaker 1>all at a You might have a suspect who's confessing,

988
00:52:02.679 --> 00:52:05.320
<v Speaker 1>but that doesn't mean that you should shut down the investigation.

989
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:10.679
<v Speaker 1>Crystal deserved more. And it's so fortunate that this prosecutor,

990
00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:14.639
<v Speaker 1>was it Chonic senior or junior junior, that knic junior

991
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:18.199
<v Speaker 1>decided to go okay, like, I'm willing to look at

992
00:52:18.199 --> 00:52:21.199
<v Speaker 1>this and potentially if I was involved in a wrongful conviction,

993
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.960
<v Speaker 1>I want to write that wrong We so infrequently see that,

994
00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:28.800
<v Speaker 1>So I just commend him so much for what he

995
00:52:28.840 --> 00:52:33.400
<v Speaker 1>did here. But it's such a tragedy that Damon his

996
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:38.239
<v Speaker 1>life ended for complications from COVID. But before that, like

997
00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:41.480
<v Speaker 1>Ashley had mentioned before, he had to deal with the

998
00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:44.760
<v Speaker 1>stigma of having this charge hang over his head. And

999
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:49.559
<v Speaker 1>that is just so unfortunate because proving that somebody else

1000
00:52:49.639 --> 00:52:52.320
<v Speaker 1>did it is really the only way that he would

1001
00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:55.719
<v Speaker 1>have been able to receive any compensation. The system makes

1002
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:59.079
<v Speaker 1>it so difficult for those who have been wrongfully convicted

1003
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:01.599
<v Speaker 1>to be able to get that compensation that they deserve

1004
00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:04.480
<v Speaker 1>and to be able to really truly clear their name

1005
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:07.800
<v Speaker 1>and to be able to remove that social stigma. So

1006
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:10.559
<v Speaker 1>my heart breaks the fact that he died without being

1007
00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:14.679
<v Speaker 1>able to do that, And it's just so incredibly frustrating

1008
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:17.800
<v Speaker 1>that the system is set up like this. And I'm

1009
00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:20.320
<v Speaker 1>so thankful that we had Ashley weighing in on all

1010
00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:22.639
<v Speaker 1>of these things. I just love hearing from you on

1011
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:24.159
<v Speaker 1>these wrongful conviction cases.

1012
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:27.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I remember learning about this case many years ago,

1013
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:30.760
<v Speaker 2>long before I started podcasting, on the episode of forty

1014
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:32.599
<v Speaker 2>eight Hours, and thinking that it was one of the

1015
00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:36.239
<v Speaker 2>more egregious wrongful convictions I ever seen. I kind of

1016
00:53:36.280 --> 00:53:38.039
<v Speaker 2>forgot about it for a while, but then I remember

1017
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:40.440
<v Speaker 2>reading the news during the summer of twenty twenty one

1018
00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:43.639
<v Speaker 2>that Damon had died from complications from COVID and he

1019
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:46.039
<v Speaker 2>was only forty seven years old and only got to

1020
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:49.400
<v Speaker 2>enjoy nine years of freedom after he was released from

1021
00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:51.760
<v Speaker 2>death row, but by that point he had already lost

1022
00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:55.079
<v Speaker 2>sixteen whole years to of his life. And of course

1023
00:53:55.639 --> 00:53:57.760
<v Speaker 2>this was one of those cases where literally the only

1024
00:53:57.800 --> 00:54:00.719
<v Speaker 2>evidence against him was a false confession, but that was

1025
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:03.599
<v Speaker 2>enough to send him to death row. So I decided

1026
00:54:03.639 --> 00:54:05.679
<v Speaker 2>to take a fresh look at the case, and I'm

1027
00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:08.639
<v Speaker 2>glad I did. And the main reason I wanted to

1028
00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:12.599
<v Speaker 2>cover it is because this murder is still technically unsolved,

1029
00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:16.480
<v Speaker 2>because even though Damon was finally exonerated, we still don't

1030
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:19.440
<v Speaker 2>know who killed Crystal. I mean, John Tomlins. It seems

1031
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:21.960
<v Speaker 2>like a good candidate, but he may have had an

1032
00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:24.960
<v Speaker 2>alibi clearing them of any involvement. So, for all we know,

1033
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:28.440
<v Speaker 2>maybe Crystal cross paths with someone else who coursed her

1034
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:31.719
<v Speaker 2>into climbing into a car, or maybe forcibly abducted her

1035
00:54:32.079 --> 00:54:34.360
<v Speaker 2>and then proceeded to take her to this remote wooded

1036
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:38.519
<v Speaker 2>area before attempting to sexually assaulting her and then murdering her.

1037
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:42.599
<v Speaker 2>But sadly, this just shows like how badly an investigation

1038
00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:46.039
<v Speaker 2>could go when the police get tunnel vision because they

1039
00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:48.000
<v Speaker 2>wanted to bring in Damon for what should have been

1040
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:51.639
<v Speaker 2>routine questioning, and then suddenly, after Crystal's body was found,

1041
00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:54.079
<v Speaker 2>they decided, hey, this must be the guy who did it,

1042
00:54:54.159 --> 00:54:56.880
<v Speaker 2>and they coursed him making a confession, and then later

1043
00:54:56.920 --> 00:55:00.079
<v Speaker 2>discovered that none of the other evidence matches him. So

1044
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:02.280
<v Speaker 2>he never should have been convicted in the first place.

1045
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:04.800
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I do hope that one of these days

1046
00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:08.199
<v Speaker 2>that Crystal's family can receive justice. We can find out

1047
00:55:08.199 --> 00:55:10.599
<v Speaker 2>who actually killed her, and it would also be great

1048
00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:13.800
<v Speaker 2>for Damon's family and his loved ones. Like we also,

1049
00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:16.360
<v Speaker 2>we talked about how Yida's son that he reconnected with

1050
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:18.480
<v Speaker 2>while he was on death row, and I'm sure he

1051
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:20.920
<v Speaker 2>would like his father to be one hundred percent cleared

1052
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:24.440
<v Speaker 2>by having the real perpetrator brought to justice because sadly,

1053
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:28.360
<v Speaker 2>these wrongful conviction cases are just too common. And like

1054
00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:31.039
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned, we love hearing Ashley's thoughts on these wrongful

1055
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:33.639
<v Speaker 2>conviction cases. And I think sometime in the future, I've

1056
00:55:33.639 --> 00:55:37.440
<v Speaker 2>got another egregious story like this from Louisiana that was

1057
00:55:37.480 --> 00:55:42.559
<v Speaker 2>prosecuted by Paula Connick Junior's uncle, Harry Connick Senior, and unfortunately,

1058
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:45.159
<v Speaker 2>he did not have the same mentality as paul did.

1059
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:47.599
<v Speaker 2>He was unwilling to admit that he made a mistake,

1060
00:55:47.719 --> 00:55:51.400
<v Speaker 2>and unfortunately he railroaded another poor innocent person and sent

1061
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:53.519
<v Speaker 2>them to death row. So I hope we can talk

1062
00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:55.559
<v Speaker 2>about that case in the near future.

1063
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:58.400
<v Speaker 4>On the Path with Chile, Robin do you want to

1064
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:00.679
<v Speaker 4>tell us a little bit about the Trail went Patreon.

1065
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

1066
00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:07.599
<v Speaker 2>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

1067
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:11.039
<v Speaker 2>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

1068
00:56:11.079 --> 00:56:13.920
<v Speaker 2>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

1069
00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:16.519
<v Speaker 2>with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars

1070
00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:20.639
<v Speaker 2>tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in

1071
00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:23.840
<v Speaker 2>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

1072
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:27.199
<v Speaker 2>the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,

1073
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:30.000
<v Speaker 2>and if you join our highest tier tier three, the

1074
00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:32.960
<v Speaker 2>ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is

1075
00:56:33.039 --> 00:56:37.320
<v Speaker 2>a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsawved Mysteries,

1076
00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:40.559
<v Speaker 2>where you can download an audio file and then boot

1077
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:43.840
<v Speaker 2>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

1078
00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:47.239
<v Speaker 2>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

1079
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.400
<v Speaker 2>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

1080
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:53.800
<v Speaker 2>the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very

1081
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:56.719
<v Speaker 2>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

1082
00:56:56.760 --> 00:56:59.480
<v Speaker 2>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

1083
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:02.519
<v Speaker 2>download commentary track at which I make more smart ass

1084
00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:06.119
<v Speaker 2>remarks about Jewel Kaylor than be sure to join Tier three.

1085
00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:07.840
<v Speaker 4>So I want to let you know a little bit

1086
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:10.800
<v Speaker 4>about the Jeweles and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad

1087
00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:13.719
<v Speaker 4>free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our

1088
00:57:13.760 --> 00:57:16.760
<v Speaker 4>Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so

1089
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:18.920
<v Speaker 4>they're not very mini, but they're just too short to

1090
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:21.880
<v Speaker 4>turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,

1091
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:24.079
<v Speaker 4>so we hope you'll check out those patreons.

1092
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:25.599
<v Speaker 1>We'll link them in the show notes.

1093
00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:28.000
<v Speaker 2>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

1094
00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:30.480
<v Speaker 2>any chance you have to share us on social media

1095
00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:32.880
<v Speaker 2>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly

1096
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:35.639
<v Speaker 2>appreciate it. You can email us at The Pathwentchili at

1097
00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:38.440
<v Speaker 2>gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at

1098
00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:41.280
<v Speaker 2>the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to bundle

1099
00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:44.840
<v Speaker 2>up because cold trails and Chili pass call for warm clothing.

1100
00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:48.199
<v Speaker 1>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy