WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>I read.

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<v Speaker 2>October twenty nine, twenty five, allegedly according to that thing

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<v Speaker 2>we call a calendar, This the o'celly effect. You catching

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<v Speaker 2>it because most likely you got it on the podcast feed.

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<v Speaker 2>But we are live on a Wednesday, Wolden's Day, middle

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<v Speaker 2>of a week, all that good stuff. Yeah, hump day,

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<v Speaker 2>some people say, But I don't know. I'm disinterested, so

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not all about the hump day thing. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>even know what that's about, except I guess it's the

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<v Speaker 2>hump in the middle of the week or whatever. But

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<v Speaker 2>that's not what I'm here to talk about tonight. I

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<v Speaker 2>got Larry Hancock with me, okay, and I'm more than

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<v Speaker 2>happy we might get another chance to hear from Larry.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm hoping that we pull off this Halloween special on Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>where Larry said he would drop in briefly and probably

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<v Speaker 2>you'll give a quick summary about well, part of what

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to talk about tonight on that show, along

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<v Speaker 2>with a bunch of other people that are scheduled. But

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<v Speaker 2>let's see what happens, because so far, I can't get

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<v Speaker 2>somebody to understand the difference between no, I can't call you,

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<v Speaker 2>you got to call me and a few other issues

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<v Speaker 2>regarding communication that day. But we'll see, we'll see if

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<v Speaker 2>I can sort it by then worse comes to worst,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll do something about you know, hey, the lead up

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<v Speaker 2>to Lancer on Friday and let you guys know a

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<v Speaker 2>little more about it. Then of course that's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be the twenty first to the twenty third, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in Dallas, Texas. And if you go to Assassination Conference

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<v Speaker 2>dot com, whether you're planning on attending in person or

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<v Speaker 2>virtually Assassinationconference dot com, you can sign up there and

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<v Speaker 2>if you want ten percent off, use the code o'elly ten. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so that's my name, o'ceelly and ten the number ten

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<v Speaker 2>one zero okay, not not the nuts, don't spell it,

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<v Speaker 2>so O'Kelly and one zero o'celly ten. You get ten

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<v Speaker 2>percent off from the conference whatever it is you're deciding

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<v Speaker 2>to attend or get. And if you use most browsers,

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<v Speaker 2>although not on Firefox, if you use most browsers, you'll

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<v Speaker 2>be able to download the videos and keep them too.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh So, just so you know, that's the way it is.

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<v Speaker 2>And hopefully everything is all good by then. But I

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<v Speaker 2>should be traveling in a couple of weeks and we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to take some time off anyway. Until then, Larryhncock

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<v Speaker 2>is with me, larrydash Hancock dot com. Go over there

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<v Speaker 2>follow his blog Larry Hyphenhancock dot com. However you want

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<v Speaker 2>to put it, and I'll there's links in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, if you don't listen to what I'm

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<v Speaker 2>saying and don't want to type it out, click on

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<v Speaker 2>it larrydash Handcock dot com. And yeah, you can also

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<v Speaker 2>read about his books and his blogs. And you recently

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<v Speaker 2>blogged actually about something in the past day or so,

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<v Speaker 2>I think, and might be what we're discussing tonight, Larry,

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<v Speaker 2>But then again who knows. So first of all, how

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<v Speaker 2>are you doing, sir?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm doing as you'd say.

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<v Speaker 3>I am blogging again, probably be a little bit more

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<v Speaker 3>active blogging now that we're with the Now that we've

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<v Speaker 3>finished our we finished our presentation for the Lancer conference,

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<v Speaker 3>so David and I have kind of we might have

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<v Speaker 3>some time to go back and blog, which that really

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't seem like a pad for months.

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<v Speaker 2>So just so everybody knows, there's a little little issue

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<v Speaker 2>with teams and we might might have a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of an odd exchange here and there, just so everybody knows.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I might change that up with Larry

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<v Speaker 2>in the near future. But he's working with David Boyland

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<v Speaker 2>b O Y L A N. Who is his co

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<v Speaker 2>author on the Oswald Puzzle, and those two together we'll

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<v Speaker 2>be making a presentation virtual at the Lancer conference, uh

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<v Speaker 2>you know again the twenty first of the twenty third

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<v Speaker 2>in Dallas, Texas in November. So November in Dallas and

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<v Speaker 2>all that good stuff at the Lancer conference. Anyway, So Larry,

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<v Speaker 2>what what exactly? What's the title of that blog? I

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<v Speaker 2>don't have it in front of me or anything, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna mute up and listen to you talk

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<v Speaker 2>about it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a WordPress blog and the title for for the

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<v Speaker 4>this evening was the post I made this morning was

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<v Speaker 4>the Devil and the Details and and.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically it's a it's a discussion of how even my

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<v Speaker 3>anger in coming out with the document released those things

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<v Speaker 3>you know, from a personnel file, not operational files that

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<v Speaker 3>can can really change our perspective and kind of take

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<v Speaker 3>us out of the box.

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<v Speaker 1>Depending on what.

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<v Speaker 5>We know now. And yeah, h h it, yeah, it's all.

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<v Speaker 1>Decades of dealing with kil.

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<v Speaker 3>If we had seen it twenty years ago, we probably

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<v Speaker 3>wouldn't have understood it or appreciated it. But the world

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<v Speaker 3>has changed and now we have so much more contact

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<v Speaker 3>than we had had.

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<v Speaker 1>That h.

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<v Speaker 3>What uh how information comes together? But it was a speculation.

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<v Speaker 3>Now at the point, we're at the point we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to actually trace it in the documents.

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<v Speaker 2>Mhmm. Okay, I am okay. I'm gonna take a quick

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<v Speaker 2>break here and see if I can't straighten things out

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<v Speaker 2>real fast and get hooked back up with Larry. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>just see if this is my problem over here or what,

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<v Speaker 2>and hopefully we'll be able to continue this here on

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<v Speaker 2>a Wednesday, o Chelli effects stick.

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<v Speaker 6>Around Otilly dot com.

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<v Speaker 7>Do you like history, Real history that you were never

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<v Speaker 7>taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War, Nuclear Bombs and

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<v Speaker 7>Nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with

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<v Speaker 7>new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to

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<v Speaker 7>events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War,

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<v Speaker 7>Nuclear Bombs and Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty

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<v Speaker 7>five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at

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<v Speaker 7>Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike.

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<v Speaker 8>Swanson, the dot Com Radio Network were were.

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<v Speaker 9>In Denial the Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks

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<v Speaker 9>by Lairry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US

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<v Speaker 9>covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In

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<v Speaker 9>Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files.

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<v Speaker 10>It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no

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<v Speaker 10>one has ever written about before. It shows why it

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<v Speaker 10>really failed and why the United States did not learn

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<v Speaker 10>from it. It also shows why other countries today are

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<v Speaker 10>doing secret operations with more success. This is the book

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<v Speaker 10>that puts what some want to deny into the light.

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<v Speaker 10>In Denial, Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks Larry Hancock.

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<v Speaker 10>For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com.

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<v Speaker 10>Pick up your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com.

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<v Speaker 10>In digital or physical.

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<v Speaker 7>Revelation through conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>To the effect, Sure through conversation.

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<v Speaker 11>The time, postop your lives, show fact revelation, conaba, I'm

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<v Speaker 11>a devastation. Revelation through conversation the effect you are the effect.

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<v Speaker 7>Listen to conversation all.

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<v Speaker 11>Lay demonstrator, I'll tell you effect. Relasten conversation season through conversation,

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<v Speaker 11>Oh shall effect revelations consation gone, had forgotten what's show?

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<v Speaker 11>The effect beyond display of lass and fears are the shape.

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<v Speaker 1>And the mid of years. Find the shot, find.

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<v Speaker 2>Me afraid and that is not a three decay not

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<v Speaker 2>charge with scroll. I am the master of of my face.

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<v Speaker 8>I am the chat of my soul.

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<v Speaker 9>Un fact revelation.

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<v Speaker 8>Protection propaganda.

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<v Speaker 7>Horse continued cashing in teachers about religion, keeping score at home.

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<v Speaker 11>People you'd like to see eaten by wolves, miss dropped,

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<v Speaker 11>dying soon. The tangles are Tago taps and his continued golf.

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<v Speaker 5>Storming tour him.

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<v Speaker 7>When he streak, he says God sparred him and decided

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<v Speaker 7>a firefighter dies.

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<v Speaker 5>In the.

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<v Speaker 11>Revelation conversation.

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<v Speaker 9>Affect, you are the effect, You are the effect.

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<v Speaker 1>Revelation to conversations are.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, rejoining the Ocelli effect live and hopefully you're still

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<v Speaker 2>with us now. It might be the Microsoft teams just

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<v Speaker 2>had a nasty, nasty network issue, So Larry and I

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<v Speaker 2>have moved to an alternative form of communication and you're

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<v Speaker 2>hearing it live. So sorry about the broken up audio

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<v Speaker 2>on everybody, and also frustrating Larry while he's trying to speak,

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<v Speaker 2>but here we are back at it anyway, Larry again,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna shut up and lets you talk about your

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<v Speaker 2>blog and let's begin from there again, because things got

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<v Speaker 2>a little robotic sounding and I'd rather hear your voice, Larry,

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<v Speaker 2>and let you explain yourself. So, like I said, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>based partially on what's going on regarding the presentation. We

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<v Speaker 2>already covered that, David Boyl and of course you're co

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<v Speaker 2>author on the Oswalt puzzle. Both of you will be

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<v Speaker 2>doing that. But yeah, talk to us about the blog.

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<v Speaker 2>You're getting more active lately, et cetera. That's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>where we left off.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, basically, the blog post called Devil the Devil is

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<v Speaker 3>in the Details kind of introduces my thoughts on the

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<v Speaker 3>fact that we're now at a point, after several decades

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<v Speaker 3>of what i'd call grant work, of being able to

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<v Speaker 3>take even small details and look at them and say,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, does this challenge the assumptions that we've been making,

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<v Speaker 3>Does it challenge our ideas, or does it take us further?

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of things. Everybody who's been in.

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<v Speaker 3>For this for decades knows a lot of what we've

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<v Speaker 3>discussed has been speculation, you know, things that were intuitive,

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<v Speaker 3>that were logical, bits and pieces that seem like they

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<v Speaker 3>should come together, but we didn't have the connective tissue.

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<v Speaker 3>But some of the details that are emerging are giving

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<v Speaker 3>that the connective tissue to us where we can actually

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<v Speaker 3>follow things and go, oh, this is not just speculation anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>We thought people at Miami station knew about.

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<v Speaker 1>Lee Harvey Osco. In fact, we thought, you know, we

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<v Speaker 1>weren't sure.

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<v Speaker 3>We were sure that somebody there knew about Lee Harvey

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<v Speaker 3>Oswald and didn't talk about Le osweo Harvey Oswell after

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<v Speaker 3>the assassination. Now we can trace through to the point

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<v Speaker 3>and based on David's a lot of David's workers saying, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>we can follow the the iMOS, We can follow the

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<v Speaker 3>DRE communications. We can see eight people at Miami Base,

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<v Speaker 3>both than the Spacer's Cuba Project staff and and the

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<v Speaker 3>JM Wave Paramilitary Operation staff who were aware of Oswald,

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<v Speaker 3>who was being copied on Oswald, copied on Oswald because

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<v Speaker 3>of his connections to the Fair Play commit for Cuba Committee,

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<v Speaker 3>his connections and engagement with a DRE.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we can verify that people were well.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe maybe joint edies just didn't pass information on the

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<v Speaker 3>Cuban stole them and he kept it, and so now

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<v Speaker 3>we know the same information was coming from the FBI.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we can connect a lot of these things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yea, let me interrupt you for a moment, because it

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<v Speaker 2>sounds like a lot of little details coming together to

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<v Speaker 2>finally topple this the old adage, right when we used

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<v Speaker 2>to watch the television specials and we used to read,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the brand new articles in the in the

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<v Speaker 2>earlier legacy media, not the stuff today where stuff blasts,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, instantaneously out there. You know, we're not getting

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<v Speaker 2>the instant Russian translation like we did, you know, from

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<v Speaker 2>the documents that were finally handed over.

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<v Speaker 1>And this and that.

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<v Speaker 2>In the days when you watched the television special and

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<v Speaker 2>government people would come on and say, look, I worked

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<v Speaker 2>in the government, and I can tell you unequivocally, we

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<v Speaker 2>had no idea about this loan nut. We knew nothing,

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<v Speaker 2>you know pretty much that that's what it was. And

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<v Speaker 2>it was almost left to an argument of is this

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<v Speaker 2>incompetence on their part that they didn't know about this guy,

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, is it something else. They would answer with,

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<v Speaker 2>we had no idea about him. We can't possibly keep

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<v Speaker 2>track of every loan. It's not a maya coopa. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just like a hey, what can you do? The world's

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<v Speaker 2>a dangerous place? Right? I mean literally going into the

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<v Speaker 2>thesis that a Gerald Posner feeds us about this, right,

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<v Speaker 2>is that, oh, you know, these conspiracy theorist people, they

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to believe that, you know, some loser like

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<v Speaker 2>Oswald could actually pull this off. And hey, isn't it

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<v Speaker 2>crazy that the government even knew about this guy? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>who is He's nobody. What you're telling me is that

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<v Speaker 2>we now have documentation that proves that all of that

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<v Speaker 2>was absolutely false, and that there were plenty of people

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<v Speaker 2>within different government structures who should have been, would have been,

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<v Speaker 2>and were well aware of Lee Harvey Oswald. And we're

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<v Speaker 2>actually looking at him for different reasons, from different angles,

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<v Speaker 2>different agencies, all coming together here. And what we have

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<v Speaker 2>again is further confirmation of that. Or am I reading

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<v Speaker 2>this wrong?

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<v Speaker 1>No, that's exactly correct, and we can see the detail.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean before I think you're right, they could claim, well,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, he just wasn't on our radar like David

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<v Speaker 3>Phillips did.

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<v Speaker 1>Now he's a nobody, he's doing nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>Why should we have been concerned about him, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>and kind of be take that position of well, it's

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<v Speaker 3>no big deal.

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<v Speaker 1>He was no big deal. But when you go back

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<v Speaker 1>and look and you find the guy who was.

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<v Speaker 3>The head of the Cuba desk at the FBI sending

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<v Speaker 3>a copy of the FBI's arrest report on Oswald of

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<v Speaker 3>his activities with the air fair Play for Cuba Committee

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<v Speaker 3>with his arrest for demonstrating, and the FBI fellow actually

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<v Speaker 3>is circulating a member that says, is this a national

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<v Speaker 3>security issue?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we know this guy's been enraged, this national

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<v Speaker 1>security issue.

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<v Speaker 3>And Agent Hosty out of Dallas replies and starts giving

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<v Speaker 3>background information on Oswald in.

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<v Speaker 1>Dallas at the previous fall.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh And that information is not only goes to the FBI,

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<v Speaker 3>but the FBI does this job and it passes it

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<v Speaker 3>on to counter intelligence at CIAD quarters, who pass it on.

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<v Speaker 1>Down to Miami.

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<v Speaker 3>And so this is we're looking to someone who the

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<v Speaker 3>FBI was concerned about, is what he's doing this summer

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<v Speaker 3>and national security issue, and we're sharing that with everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's it's not just somebody, it's somebody who is.

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<v Speaker 3>Interacting with the fair Play for Cuba Committee, who has

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<v Speaker 3>been designated as a subversive organization. And also there's there's

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<v Speaker 3>every reason that this should have been passed to counter

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<v Speaker 3>intelligence at headquarters and the people who are dealing with

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<v Speaker 3>the fair play for Cuba may and so they were

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<v Speaker 3>doing their job before, as you said, maybe pleading ignorants,

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<v Speaker 3>and we're supposed to think that they weren't really doing

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<v Speaker 3>their day jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we know they were, and they were doing them

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<v Speaker 1>for multiple directions.

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<v Speaker 3>And these people are getting information from the FBI, and

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<v Speaker 3>they're also getting it through their own assets at the DRE,

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<v Speaker 3>the Student Revolutionary Committee from New Orleans.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the things that David and I began to.

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<v Speaker 3>Explore is that the CIA had a lot of assets

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<v Speaker 3>in New Orleans and they actually had a spotter project

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<v Speaker 3>in New Orleans to identify individuals who might be Castro agents,

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<v Speaker 3>Castro supporters. There's this whole network in place to capture

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<v Speaker 3>information about exactly who and what OSWA was doing. So

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<v Speaker 3>they should have had that information and they did, which

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<v Speaker 3>is perhap that's the shocking thing, and nobody admitted.

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<v Speaker 2>It right now. Perhaps David has focused on this more,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm going to ask you the question. Anyway, they

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<v Speaker 2>also were likely to know that his fair Play for

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<v Speaker 2>Cuba Committee chapter that he was out there representing publicly

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<v Speaker 2>and also ended up getting you know, we all know

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<v Speaker 2>about the radio interviews and all that stuff and the

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<v Speaker 2>TV footage when he's out there doing that, these people

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<v Speaker 2>should have also known that he didn't have a legitimate chapter.

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<v Speaker 2>Even so he's out there independently hawking the fair Play

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<v Speaker 2>for Cuba Committee without even actually creating a chapter and

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<v Speaker 2>running it, which he could have done. And even the

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<v Speaker 2>fair Play for Cuba Committee people, you know, they had

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<v Speaker 2>been contacted or whatever at some point, but he never

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<v Speaker 2>had a legitimate chapter. So you're right, or did we

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<v Speaker 2>learn something else here? Because to me, this is like

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<v Speaker 2>a bigger red flag, even because he's independently doing that

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00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:05.480
<v Speaker 2>as a pro Castro publicly pro Castro agent on the

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<v Speaker 2>streets in New Orleans, which of course leads to the

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the public scuffle let's call it, with bereng

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<v Speaker 2>gear and all that, the arrest, he gets fined, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>and that gives him notoriety. There's no way that they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't catch that situation and know that he doesn't have

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<v Speaker 2>a legitimate chapter and that he's literally volunteering on his own,

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<v Speaker 2>like we learned later that he actually hired people to

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<v Speaker 2>go out and help him hand out the leaflets, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is something that should have gotten noticed

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<v Speaker 2>and definitely did. Sorry, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 3>This is another point of where the devil is in

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<v Speaker 3>the details, and this time the detail is the chronology.

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<v Speaker 3>Even though and you've got to really dig in at

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<v Speaker 3>exact dates on this, which David is great at.

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<v Speaker 5>Even though.

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<v Speaker 3>The FBI I was advising, you know, of his arrest

319
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<v Speaker 3>and of his fpc C connections. Even though they were

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<v Speaker 3>advising certain people at the CIA about that, the CI

321
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<v Speaker 3>was not really going back and asking for any details,

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00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:20.880
<v Speaker 3>which is a rather fascinating thing because we have a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of message traffic that is going into CIA from

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<v Speaker 3>FBI on him and nothing going back to which quite unusual.

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<v Speaker 3>And as far as what you just pointed out, actually,

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<v Speaker 3>even the FBI itself, and I've seen the documents, where

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<v Speaker 3>they did not realize that Oswell was scamming them four

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<v Speaker 3>weeks they actually actively started to investigate Hidel and not Oswell.

329
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<v Speaker 3>By that matter, They didn't you'd think they would jump

330
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<v Speaker 3>all over Oswell, but they started investigating and looking for

331
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<v Speaker 3>this This highdel person going to their sources. And it

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<v Speaker 3>was not until just about the time that Oswell actually

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<v Speaker 3>left New Orleans that the FBI began to, I think,

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00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:12.039
<v Speaker 3>get suspicious. And there's a memo saying and now we

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<v Speaker 3>think that this Oswald and Heidel may.

336
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<v Speaker 1>Have been the same person. But it took them weeks

337
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:17.559
<v Speaker 1>to get there.

338
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<v Speaker 3>And so there was a period of time when Oswald

339
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<v Speaker 3>when when nobody knew that that was a bogus chapter,

340
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.559
<v Speaker 3>when nobody knew that there was no real high tell that.

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<v Speaker 3>That's one of the reasons that David and I have

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<v Speaker 3>pointed out that according to standard FBI practice, Oswald should

343
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<v Speaker 3>have been treated as a provincial provisional subversive informant because

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00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:46.880
<v Speaker 3>he went to the FBI and volunteered them information on

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<v Speaker 3>this way you might call a cell within the FPCC

346
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<v Speaker 3>and I there's there are a lot of good reasons

347
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<v Speaker 3>to think that they may.

348
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<v Speaker 1>Have actually had him on the leash.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh and later actually covered that up, explaining why Deburius

350
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<v Speaker 3>was giving presidential approval not to answer all the questions.

351
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<v Speaker 1>That were asked of him.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, the FBI, No, the FBI really didn't know

353
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<v Speaker 3>for some time what the real deal was with Hydell.

354
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<v Speaker 3>They were suspicious of this connection, but they didn't know

355
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<v Speaker 3>ideal Hydell and Oswa were the same person.

356
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<v Speaker 5>It.

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<v Speaker 3>Strangely enough, we don't even see that until we get

358
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<v Speaker 3>to November twenty second, when one hundred and twelfth Military

359
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:41.640
<v Speaker 3>Intelligence Group, who's been copied by the FBI, comes up

360
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<v Speaker 3>with a document that's from New Orleans from the FBI

361
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<v Speaker 3>that says, oh, now we think this highdel person might

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<v Speaker 3>have been this Lee Harvey Oswell person. So if you

363
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<v Speaker 3>see the name Hidel, maybe it means Oswald. So again,

364
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.000
<v Speaker 3>if you don't, if you don't have a really strict

365
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<v Speaker 3>chronology on this stuff, you get trapped as to who

366
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<v Speaker 3>knew what win Well.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is very important because he was representing Hydell

368
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<v Speaker 2>as like the head of that cell, the head of

369
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<v Speaker 2>that chapter. And he was meanwhile advertised as what the

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<v Speaker 2>treasurer uh, which is like, you know, a secondary I'm

371
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<v Speaker 2>not the leader of this, I'm just the treasurer uh,

372
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<v Speaker 2>you know. So therefore I'm in charge of figuring out

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<v Speaker 2>how we're gonna spend money on coffee when we get together,

374
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<v Speaker 2>uh whatever, or we're gonna spend money on you know,

375
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<v Speaker 2>flyers and whatnot. But but that's what he's figuring out,

376
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:38.559
<v Speaker 2>and he's doing that publicly, which is an interesting move.

377
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<v Speaker 6>Uh.

378
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<v Speaker 2>And and they hadn't caught up to the fact that

379
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<v Speaker 2>they're the same guy, uh until later and even you know,

380
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<v Speaker 2>in more of this, when they find out that it's

381
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<v Speaker 2>Hidel who ordered the rifles supposedly, uh, you know, and

382
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:55.240
<v Speaker 2>everything else. I mean, this continues to be a problem,

383
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:57.319
<v Speaker 2>but they weren't aware of it, is what you're saying.

384
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<v Speaker 1>Uh.

385
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<v Speaker 2>All the way up until the assassination, they hadn't figured

386
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.880
<v Speaker 2>it out, although that military group said, hey, maybe it

387
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:06.000
<v Speaker 2>is a little bit.

388
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:09.200
<v Speaker 3>Before that, the FBI guys and the FBI guys in

389
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:13.640
<v Speaker 3>New Orleans thought they had it figured out. I would say,

390
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, in set by the end of September early October,

391
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:21.000
<v Speaker 3>one of the guys on the case is in a

392
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.480
<v Speaker 3>memo is saying, we think it might be the same person.

393
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.680
<v Speaker 3>And that's what ended up with military intelligence. There was

394
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<v Speaker 3>never any follow on. Here's a fascinating thing, Chuck, There

395
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:32.240
<v Speaker 3>was never.

396
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:32.799
<v Speaker 1>Any follow on.

397
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.359
<v Speaker 3>There's never any follow on that says, oh, yeah, we

398
00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:38.640
<v Speaker 3>actually determined they are one of the same.

399
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:42.000
<v Speaker 1>And oh, by the way, we tracked oswell.

400
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.079
<v Speaker 3>Down and he talked about this because you know, he

401
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.079
<v Speaker 3>lied to the FBI, and we usually don't have a

402
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.119
<v Speaker 3>sense of humor about that. But when HOSTI is brought

403
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.119
<v Speaker 3>back into this whole thing in Dallas because Oswell was

404
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.599
<v Speaker 3>back in Dallas, there's no memo that says, jerk this

405
00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:04.359
<v Speaker 3>guy into the office and charge him, which is really strange.

406
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.119
<v Speaker 1>It's just like, you know, you might want to keep

407
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:07.839
<v Speaker 1>back of him.

408
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:10.839
<v Speaker 3>But by the way, we think he lied to us,

409
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.559
<v Speaker 3>and you know, lying to the FBI and New Orleans

410
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:20.440
<v Speaker 3>translates in Dallas into looking up Marina at Ruth and

411
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:26.000
<v Speaker 3>asking her or husband works. That's that's not standard FBI practice.

412
00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:28.519
<v Speaker 3>It seems to me there's got to be a real disconnect.

413
00:27:28.759 --> 00:27:30.839
<v Speaker 1>Something's going on, right, and now.

414
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:33.680
<v Speaker 2>It looks a whole lot more reasonable. Why host he

415
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.079
<v Speaker 2>got so angry because if you remember in the aftermath,

416
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:39.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he was like, hey, don't stick me with

417
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:43.319
<v Speaker 2>this problem, because look, my superiors are telling me to

418
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:45.480
<v Speaker 2>do stuff. I mean, it's not just about the note

419
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:49.440
<v Speaker 2>he destroyed, which you know, again is a problem. But

420
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:52.119
<v Speaker 2>he's always claimed that he was told get rid of it,

421
00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:56.480
<v Speaker 2>but it seems like he was kind of told not

422
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.039
<v Speaker 2>to pursue this in a way that he probably thought

423
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:02.839
<v Speaker 2>was normal to pus do it all together, which is.

424
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:07.519
<v Speaker 3>You know, very standard, yeah, very standard stuff. Do a

425
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.759
<v Speaker 3>pretext call, find this location? Not I mean, in any

426
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.480
<v Speaker 3>other case, you might wonder why didn't they go ahead

427
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:19.519
<v Speaker 3>and fly to Buries, down to Dallas and pull Oswell

428
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:22.359
<v Speaker 3>into a room, into an interview case and stay, why

429
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:23.079
<v Speaker 3>do you lie to me?

430
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.519
<v Speaker 1>You know? And in the end, the strangest thing in

431
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:28.200
<v Speaker 1>the world.

432
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.319
<v Speaker 3>Is if you track down the documents as to why

433
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:32.480
<v Speaker 3>they supposedly closed out that lead.

434
00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:34.599
<v Speaker 1>They closed it out because the.

435
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:39.279
<v Speaker 3>FBI called up the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and said,

436
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:42.359
<v Speaker 3>do you have a chapter in New Orleans? And the

437
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:45.599
<v Speaker 3>Fair Play for Cuba Committee wrote back and said, we don't.

438
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.720
<v Speaker 3>And the FBI Headquarters file says, well they don't, so

439
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:50.279
<v Speaker 3>we're good.

440
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:52.119
<v Speaker 1>That seems insane.

441
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:55.480
<v Speaker 3>There are all sorts of you know, you have to

442
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:58.920
<v Speaker 3>wonder what's missing out of the file. Why is this

443
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.920
<v Speaker 3>that'th so innocuous? Why what was there in New Orleans?

444
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.920
<v Speaker 3>Did New Orleans make a major mistake and take Oswell

445
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:12.039
<v Speaker 3>seriously and then become embarrassed by it? You know, because

446
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.279
<v Speaker 3>we don't have the New Orleans files. We only have

447
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:19.839
<v Speaker 3>what ended up at headquarters, which looks pretty routine. But

448
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:25.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, you don't have a guy volunteer. The FBI

449
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.240
<v Speaker 3>is always looking for.

450
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:30.480
<v Speaker 1>Sources, right, right, So this guy walks in after being.

451
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:33.680
<v Speaker 3>Arrested and volunteers as a source, and you just let

452
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:36.519
<v Speaker 3>him go and never talk to him again, which is

453
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:40.599
<v Speaker 3>according to the record what happened. But according to people

454
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.640
<v Speaker 3>in New Orleans who said, oh, well we saw Hosweald

455
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:49.119
<v Speaker 3>with FBI guys with you know, with government people, I'm

456
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:50.680
<v Speaker 3>now inclined to believe.

457
00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:51.759
<v Speaker 1>That they were right.

458
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.680
<v Speaker 3>And there was an interaction going on with Oswald after

459
00:29:55.799 --> 00:30:00.400
<v Speaker 3>his exchange after being arrested that the FBI, if want

460
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:02.039
<v Speaker 3>to put keep in the file.

461
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Right well cause? And was it about the post assassination

462
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:10.720
<v Speaker 2>embarrassment or was it about embarrassment before that. That's another

463
00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:15.200
<v Speaker 2>question because like like I said, look, you you could

464
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:17.759
<v Speaker 2>almost chalk this up to well, look, the FBI was

465
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.599
<v Speaker 2>aware of the guy and they dropped the ball, so

466
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:22.359
<v Speaker 2>it makes sense that they don't want to really get

467
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:27.119
<v Speaker 2>into it too much. But the weird thing again is

468
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:29.400
<v Speaker 2>that all the follow up, I mean, I'm even thinking

469
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:31.680
<v Speaker 2>to myself the tactic that the FBI and I don't

470
00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:36.039
<v Speaker 2>find it exactly to be, you know, an admirable tact

471
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.400
<v Speaker 2>kick on their part. But one of the things that

472
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:40.119
<v Speaker 2>they would have done to a guy like this is

473
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:44.839
<v Speaker 2>probably put FBI guys at his workplace, you know, to

474
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:48.920
<v Speaker 2>be obvious and get the you know, other workers and

475
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:52.079
<v Speaker 2>the boss nervous about Hey, the FBI is looking into

476
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.440
<v Speaker 2>this guy. Even they did stuff like that as a

477
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:59.519
<v Speaker 2>matter of routine, especially then, and you would have thought

478
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:02.640
<v Speaker 2>this guy is a perfect candidate for that, especially because

479
00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:05.119
<v Speaker 2>they find him lying. He's involved with these you know,

480
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:09.799
<v Speaker 2>subversive organizations he's claiming and like you said, offers himself

481
00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:12.680
<v Speaker 2>up as a source and all this other stuff. I mean,

482
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:17.000
<v Speaker 2>it's almost inconceivable that there weren't FBI guys that were

483
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:19.759
<v Speaker 2>seen in his vicinity, even if they were there just

484
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:22.799
<v Speaker 2>to sort of intimidate and just stand there all day

485
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.440
<v Speaker 2>while he's working. Uh, that's the kind of crap they

486
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:28.359
<v Speaker 2>would do. I mean, unless I'm reading this wrong again,

487
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Uh that that why didn't that happen? Yeah? Good?

488
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Certainly not talking to him again.

489
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:41.039
<v Speaker 3>Having no apparent follow on contact for weeks until he

490
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:44.440
<v Speaker 3>left New Orleans is strange, right, I mean.

491
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:47.400
<v Speaker 1>That's it's sort of like we don't. We don't go

492
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.440
<v Speaker 1>to the apartment and say, has this high Dell guy

493
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:52.000
<v Speaker 1>called you again? Have you been in touch with him again?

494
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:53.359
<v Speaker 1>When's the next meeting.

495
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:57.480
<v Speaker 3>We'd like to kind of monitor this next meeting, tell

496
00:31:57.559 --> 00:31:58.480
<v Speaker 3>us when it's going to be.

497
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.160
<v Speaker 1>None of that happens. The other thing, and this is

498
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:06.039
<v Speaker 1>kind of off off the rails a bit. The other

499
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.279
<v Speaker 1>thing that doesn't.

500
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:09.240
<v Speaker 3>Happen, which when you get out of the box and

501
00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:12.160
<v Speaker 3>you begin to think about what should have happened. I mean,

502
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:17.680
<v Speaker 3>Oswald is arrested after the Cubans rush up, and the

503
00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:23.000
<v Speaker 3>Cubans have have bounced him twice, they've interfered with two

504
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:27.559
<v Speaker 3>of his leafleting things, and they've engaged with him on

505
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.759
<v Speaker 3>the street, and they've gone to court. Yet he goes

506
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:33.920
<v Speaker 3>on picketing. In fact, he goes on to have his

507
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:39.720
<v Speaker 3>biggest protest outside the trademark and no Cubans show up,

508
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:44.440
<v Speaker 3>not even counter pickets. Okay, we don't have to punch

509
00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:48.519
<v Speaker 3>the guy, but they were. They were very outgoing in

510
00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:51.200
<v Speaker 3>a servant that we don't even see any placards saying

511
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.000
<v Speaker 3>this guy lies. Cuba's a prison. It's like hands off.

512
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:57.759
<v Speaker 3>Nobody beats him up in an alley. This is a

513
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:03.759
<v Speaker 3>violent time. There's a very very assertive, aggressive anti Castro

514
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:06.599
<v Speaker 3>group and New Orleans enhancement. That's why the Fair Play

515
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:09.799
<v Speaker 3>for Que Committee told him not to start a chapter

516
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:12.880
<v Speaker 3>because it's actually even dangerous out there, and you're not

517
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:16.119
<v Speaker 3>gonna They don't show up. It's like somebody called them off.

518
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:21.920
<v Speaker 1>And one begins to wonder, did deburaus talk to somebody?

519
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Did he talk to Guy Banister?

520
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:27.759
<v Speaker 3>Did somebody say, hey, Oswald has given us some information

521
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:29.160
<v Speaker 3>and we're watching things.

522
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Don't bother them.

523
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Well see, and there you go, because at a bare minimum,

524
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:36.000
<v Speaker 2>guys would have been standing across the street yelling at

525
00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:39.240
<v Speaker 2>these guys handing out the fleaflets. Right, They would have

526
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.039
<v Speaker 2>at least been don't take you know, like you see

527
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:44.200
<v Speaker 2>in the JFK movie, don't take this people, it's communist propaganda.

528
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.920
<v Speaker 2>You would have had guys standing, even if they were

529
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.000
<v Speaker 2>trying to be not so confrontational or violent, they would

530
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.400
<v Speaker 2>be standing across the street yelling at people that were

531
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.359
<v Speaker 2>passing by, don't take that, hey, guy in the white shirt,

532
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.319
<v Speaker 2>don't take that crap. It's communist crap. They would have

533
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:02.279
<v Speaker 2>at least been in that you would have thought at

534
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:04.200
<v Speaker 2>least a handful of those guys would have time to

535
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:05.920
<v Speaker 2>show up, but they.

536
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:09.960
<v Speaker 3>Didn't, and they don't and they don't seem to, you know,

537
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:14.280
<v Speaker 3>they thought enough of him at first to like do

538
00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:19.119
<v Speaker 3>their own bogus call on him and have somebody go

539
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:21.719
<v Speaker 3>and try to you know, is he real is he

540
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.360
<v Speaker 3>really support Cuba?

541
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:25.159
<v Speaker 1>What's going on?

542
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:28.519
<v Speaker 3>And then apparently he keeps on, He's going on the

543
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:33.199
<v Speaker 3>media and nobody, nobody says anything or engages with him.

544
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:36.400
<v Speaker 1>In fact, when the FBI goes back to one of

545
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.519
<v Speaker 1>the guys who was at.

546
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:41.440
<v Speaker 3>His hearing, Artes Marta says, I never heard of Oswald's

547
00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:44.239
<v Speaker 3>which is a risky thing to do to the FBI

548
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:48.519
<v Speaker 3>because you've been filmed at his hearing.

549
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:51.800
<v Speaker 1>You know, if the FBI I had.

550
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:53.800
<v Speaker 3>Done their work, they would have gone back to Partiest

551
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:55.400
<v Speaker 3>and said, where are you lying to us?

552
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:59.400
<v Speaker 1>What's going on? You know, what are you not telling us?

553
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:02.440
<v Speaker 3>So there are people lying all over the place and

554
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:05.960
<v Speaker 3>not doing what you would expect them to be doing, right.

555
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Which leads you to believe that what is likely in

556
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:12.360
<v Speaker 2>my mind is that they were directed to do so,

557
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:15.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, is that somebody said, look, just deny it,

558
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:17.880
<v Speaker 2>just walk away. Just let it be what it is,

559
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:21.039
<v Speaker 2>because there's something happening here. You know, we have a

560
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:24.840
<v Speaker 2>handle on this. In other words, so I would think

561
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.719
<v Speaker 2>that that message might have gotten and look at the amount,

562
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:29.880
<v Speaker 2>look at the different places that message could have been

563
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:33.400
<v Speaker 2>coming from. Oh it's funny because now it seems like

564
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:37.920
<v Speaker 2>we have documentation showing that those places where those kind

565
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:42.159
<v Speaker 2>of words would have came from to these people were informed.

566
00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:47.119
<v Speaker 2>So you know, it leads to a logical conclusion that

567
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:49.480
<v Speaker 2>the people that were working with the DRE said, listen,

568
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:53.280
<v Speaker 2>leave them alone, right, The people that were CIA said

569
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.039
<v Speaker 2>leave them alone. The people that were FBI said, look,

570
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.119
<v Speaker 2>we have a handle on this already, leave them alone.

571
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:01.880
<v Speaker 2>And thus they did. Or am I drawing the wrong

572
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:05.320
<v Speaker 2>conclusion here? No, and we would.

573
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:12.400
<v Speaker 3>It would be understandable. It would be understandable. And by

574
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:13.920
<v Speaker 3>the way, Chuck, are we still connected?

575
00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, we're good.

576
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:19.719
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I got a strange blip and message. But anyway,

577
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:21.480
<v Speaker 1>it would be understandable that.

578
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:24.280
<v Speaker 3>The FBI would take that position if they did consider

579
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.440
<v Speaker 3>him as a potential source, right, if they were kind

580
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:30.800
<v Speaker 3>of in the background, monitoring, waiting, waiting for a high

581
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:34.719
<v Speaker 3>down meeting, waiting for whatever or talking to him. Uh

582
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:39.119
<v Speaker 3>that would that would make some sense from the FBI's perspective. Uh, now,

583
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:42.199
<v Speaker 3>it certainly doesn't make any spend. You know, you've read

584
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:44.760
<v Speaker 3>Hosty's book and from hostings you it's sort of like

585
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:48.519
<v Speaker 3>Oswell is not even a host He's not even heard

586
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:51.719
<v Speaker 3>of Oswell until he gets this file on his desk

587
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:55.679
<v Speaker 3>the day before the assassination, you know, just just days before.

588
00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:59.079
<v Speaker 3>Whereas now we know Hosty had been the guy who

589
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:03.480
<v Speaker 3>had been asked by FBI headquarters to give them background

590
00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:07.960
<v Speaker 3>on Oswald in at the end of August and in

591
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:13.039
<v Speaker 3>September when he becomes a potential national security question for headquarters.

592
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:15.840
<v Speaker 3>So it's not like Hosty didn't know what was going

593
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.440
<v Speaker 3>on in New Orleans either. So that's but anyway, so

594
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:24.840
<v Speaker 3>the FBI, pursuing its own path and its own practices,

595
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:29.480
<v Speaker 3>might have had a legitimate reason to keep hands off

596
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:33.639
<v Speaker 3>for a while, at least. I don't quite understand why

597
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:35.239
<v Speaker 3>that would last all the way up to the.

598
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:36.320
<v Speaker 1>Time of the assassination.

599
00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.920
<v Speaker 3>But that the question is why would the CIA not

600
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:44.280
<v Speaker 3>be responding, what would the why would the CIA know

601
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:49.400
<v Speaker 3>about him and apparently not be interested in him because

602
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.559
<v Speaker 3>their own group we know now, and we know that

603
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.760
<v Speaker 3>the student director was reporting it to their case officer.

604
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:02.239
<v Speaker 3>And you know, we know that the CIA was aware

605
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:06.239
<v Speaker 3>that its own surrogates, its own people, had already started

606
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:10.880
<v Speaker 3>to do propaganda around Oswald and would continue to do

607
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:11.840
<v Speaker 3>that because.

608
00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:12.719
<v Speaker 1>He was a perfect foil.

609
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:16.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean, he's the perfect mixture of you know, former

610
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:25.000
<v Speaker 3>you know FBI, sorry from former marine, you know, young, naive, gullible,

611
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:28.880
<v Speaker 3>the Cubans and the Communists have warped his war. He's

612
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:34.159
<v Speaker 3>great propaganda vehicle. But suddenly the DR stops doing that

613
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:36.960
<v Speaker 3>and everything goes silent.

614
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:41.599
<v Speaker 1>It's like, what's going on at the CIA level?

615
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:46.559
<v Speaker 3>Everybody we now know knows about him, But why don't

616
00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:48.960
<v Speaker 3>they engage with him. Why don't they get behind the

617
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:51.960
<v Speaker 3>d R and support that effort, because that's what they're

618
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.960
<v Speaker 3>paying the DR to do. Why you know, what's going on?

619
00:38:56.639 --> 00:39:01.119
<v Speaker 3>We see this silence to send all over all over

620
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:05.360
<v Speaker 3>the not only headquarters in Miami. In fact, it's so

621
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:09.719
<v Speaker 3>silent that when he goes to Mexico City and Mexico

622
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:13.960
<v Speaker 3>City ask for information on him, nobody will share it.

623
00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:19.000
<v Speaker 3>So it's not silent because somebody's ignoring it or missed

624
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.639
<v Speaker 3>the point. It's that a conscious decision was made not

625
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:26.559
<v Speaker 3>to share it. And as Bill Simpacz pointed out, somebody

626
00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:30.119
<v Speaker 3>already pulled his two oh one and made a SAFT

627
00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:34.960
<v Speaker 3>file and cleaned it out for some purpose. Okay, And

628
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:39.519
<v Speaker 3>they just did that that fall. So there is something

629
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:43.719
<v Speaker 3>active going on with the CIA. Also, it's not just ignorance.

630
00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:47.360
<v Speaker 3>It's not just doing their job. They're doing their job,

631
00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:49.519
<v Speaker 3>and actually they're doing a job that they don't want

632
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:51.679
<v Speaker 3>to explain later after the assassination.

633
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:55.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, right, because here's the thing again, the two you know,

634
00:39:55.840 --> 00:40:00.559
<v Speaker 2>most likely explanations are that either he's useless as you know,

635
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.400
<v Speaker 2>an asset for whatever purpose, or he is useful, and

636
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:09.800
<v Speaker 2>therefore they don't want to admit that they had, you know,

637
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:12.320
<v Speaker 2>hands on him pretty much and should have known what

638
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.000
<v Speaker 2>he was doing. So, you know, one way or the other,

639
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:17.199
<v Speaker 2>they don't want to cop to that and say, look,

640
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.079
<v Speaker 2>we knew about him, We knew all about him, because

641
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:24.159
<v Speaker 2>whether he's their guy or not, you know, here we go,

642
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:27.079
<v Speaker 2>So you knew about the guy who killed the president, right,

643
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:30.800
<v Speaker 2>how come you didn't know that he was going to

644
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:36.039
<v Speaker 2>do that? You know, it's it's it's so much, it's

645
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:39.400
<v Speaker 2>it's it's crazy because again, this was speculating about for

646
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:43.119
<v Speaker 2>a long time and now we have, you know, solid

647
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:46.960
<v Speaker 2>proof that no, you can't claim ignorance, you can't claim well,

648
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:49.400
<v Speaker 2>we didn't know, he was just some loser, you know, again,

649
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:54.159
<v Speaker 2>totally destroying Daryl Posner's whole gig pretty much when he

650
00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:56.760
<v Speaker 2>shows up on media and goes, oh, you know, people

651
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:58.840
<v Speaker 2>just don't want to admit that this guy, you didn't

652
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:03.519
<v Speaker 2>really matter to anybody, you know, pulled this off. That's

653
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.440
<v Speaker 2>his whole thing, right, I mean, that's why nobody wants

654
00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:10.519
<v Speaker 2>to accept his book. That's why nobody wants to accept

655
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:13.400
<v Speaker 2>the low nut solution, because we just don't want to

656
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:16.400
<v Speaker 2>accept that there's nobody did this and he says it

657
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:19.039
<v Speaker 2>today even I mean, he's been doing this for thirty

658
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:22.280
<v Speaker 2>years now, right, I mean, what do you do with this?

659
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:27.280
<v Speaker 2>This is the narrative falling apart, is what it is.

660
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:30.800
<v Speaker 3>The narrative falls apart, and I think what it does

661
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:33.639
<v Speaker 3>is open the doors for us, because that's what my

662
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:36.320
<v Speaker 3>blog post was about, is so we have made a

663
00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:41.480
<v Speaker 3>box for ourselves of what we thought was going on

664
00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:44.280
<v Speaker 3>with Oswald. Now Posner and others tried to make a

665
00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:46.239
<v Speaker 3>box for us and force us in it.

666
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:48.599
<v Speaker 1>But we've made a bit of a box ourselves.

667
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:55.360
<v Speaker 3>By making assumptions before we really understood how these agencies

668
00:41:57.320 --> 00:42:01.519
<v Speaker 3>operated on a daily basis, before we had these documents

669
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:04.199
<v Speaker 3>that showed who was sharing information with who.

670
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:08.159
<v Speaker 1>You know, we made a lot of We not that

671
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:09.679
<v Speaker 1>these were bad assumptions.

672
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:12.920
<v Speaker 3>It's kind of like you did the best you could

673
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.639
<v Speaker 3>with what you had at the time. But we've got

674
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:18.639
<v Speaker 3>We've got a lot more now, and we should be

675
00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:20.480
<v Speaker 3>opening up a lot more doors.

676
00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:21.639
<v Speaker 1>For example, and.

677
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:26.880
<v Speaker 3>If if I, if I were, you know, able to

678
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:29.920
<v Speaker 3>give Representative Luna list, I would say, you know, if

679
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.199
<v Speaker 3>I were asking for documents for the see from the

680
00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:37.719
<v Speaker 3>CIA from nineteen sixty three, I would want to know

681
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:43.199
<v Speaker 3>about all of the propaganda operations that the Cuba Project

682
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:47.960
<v Speaker 3>was doing that might have involved like Harvey Oswald, not

683
00:42:48.199 --> 00:42:52.599
<v Speaker 3>necessarily personally, but by name, because as it turns out,

684
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:59.519
<v Speaker 3>we now know that half of their budget was going

685
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:04.480
<v Speaker 3>to propaganda and political action, and we have no documents

686
00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:07.119
<v Speaker 3>on any of that. We know everything there is to

687
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:15.119
<v Speaker 3>know about their paramilitary operations, sabotage missions, you know, second

688
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:18.639
<v Speaker 3>Naval Gorilla and what we know about all those guys

689
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:21.639
<v Speaker 3>down in the Keys and what they were doing, right,

690
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:24.639
<v Speaker 3>but we know nothing about what the other staffers were doing,

691
00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:29.440
<v Speaker 3>people like Tilton and folks that David has discovered that

692
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:30.840
<v Speaker 3>are now names to us.

693
00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:32.440
<v Speaker 1>That we didn't even know about before.

694
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:35.119
<v Speaker 3>What were they doing because they would have been the

695
00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:38.079
<v Speaker 3>ones who OSWA would have been of interest to.

696
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:42.880
<v Speaker 2>So what we're what we're missing here in those documents? Yeah,

697
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.840
<v Speaker 2>So what we're missing here from the entire anti Cuban operation,

698
00:43:48.039 --> 00:43:50.960
<v Speaker 2>the anti Castro excuse me not anti Cuban, anti Castro

699
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:57.599
<v Speaker 2>operation focusing on Cuba, is where's the propaganda stuff? Because

700
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:00.400
<v Speaker 2>clearly there had to be that there was a public

701
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:03.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, thing going on there regardless of all this

702
00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:05.800
<v Speaker 2>stuff we're learning about that you know clearly wouldn't have

703
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:10.639
<v Speaker 2>been in the public's view. There was clearly public operations

704
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:12.760
<v Speaker 2>that were happening to get people to say, look, it's

705
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:15.440
<v Speaker 2>just a communist thing. You know, they're nothing but a

706
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Russian puppet. That's it. You know, Castro is a dictator.

707
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:23.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean to continuously put that across in the media,

708
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:28.480
<v Speaker 2>in the public's consciousness, to make it just a given point.

709
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:33.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you have a propaganda operation obviously in you know,

710
00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:37.760
<v Speaker 2>in in full view, and clearly Oswald is also in

711
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:40.920
<v Speaker 2>full view. He's doing his thing. So is it part

712
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:42.960
<v Speaker 2>of it or is it something that they're working against?

713
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:46.360
<v Speaker 2>And we now know that they were fully aware of them.

714
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:50.119
<v Speaker 2>So where is that stuff? Where is the propaganda operation

715
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:54.559
<v Speaker 2>that touches upon this character? I mean, is that what

716
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:55.400
<v Speaker 2>we're getting to here?

717
00:44:56.440 --> 00:45:00.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and we know we have the connective tissue, and

718
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:01.599
<v Speaker 1>this kind of amazes me.

719
00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:04.280
<v Speaker 3>It's one of the things moving moving me out of

720
00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:07.920
<v Speaker 3>my box is between what Bill Simpitch has done and

721
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:12.400
<v Speaker 3>what Dave has done. As I mentioned earlier, the FBI

722
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.239
<v Speaker 3>was providing all sorts of information of the CIA, which

723
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:18.960
<v Speaker 3>is kind of funny because the FBI, you know, we

724
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:20.920
<v Speaker 3>always say they don't share anything with anybody.

725
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:22.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, actually they.

726
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:26.440
<v Speaker 3>Were sharing Lee Harvey Ossel with the CIA, not everything,

727
00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:29.119
<v Speaker 3>and the CIA wasn't asking for much.

728
00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:33.119
<v Speaker 1>But one of the things that we found going back from.

729
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:37.119
<v Speaker 3>The CIA to the FBI is the CIA sends a

730
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:40.159
<v Speaker 3>memo to the guy who's at the FBI Cuba ask

731
00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:43.679
<v Speaker 3>and says, hey, we're in September, We're about to launch

732
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:49.719
<v Speaker 3>this new black propaganda project against the FPCC, and we're

733
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:54.159
<v Speaker 3>going to do this internationally and we need to actually,

734
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:57.000
<v Speaker 3>we need to help you to help us, because you've

735
00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:00.880
<v Speaker 3>got a source inside the FPCC. We need copies of

736
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:08.519
<v Speaker 3>correspondence letters to the FPCC, responses names, you know, because

737
00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:10.880
<v Speaker 3>we're going to make up a bunch of bad stuff

738
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:16.639
<v Speaker 3>about the FPCC and start planning it overseas in Central

739
00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:20.519
<v Speaker 3>America Caribbean where they still had FPC still had a voice,

740
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:22.880
<v Speaker 3>because there was a lot more support for Cuba, and

741
00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:24.119
<v Speaker 3>that's where we're going to.

742
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:25.480
<v Speaker 1>Wage our propaganda war.

743
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:28.880
<v Speaker 3>So we'd like for you to provide us with some

744
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:33.159
<v Speaker 3>stuff from your source, you know, that we can use

745
00:46:33.239 --> 00:46:36.559
<v Speaker 3>in this mission, because we're launching this new project. Right

746
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:39.559
<v Speaker 3>and that's the last we hear of it. Not a

747
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:46.519
<v Speaker 3>single follow on document from the special staff about what

748
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:50.039
<v Speaker 3>the project was, what it involved. But what we do

749
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:55.079
<v Speaker 3>know is that they're the asset that the FBI turned to,

750
00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:59.320
<v Speaker 3>was the one who passed on the correspondence who had

751
00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:02.880
<v Speaker 3>been corresponding with Lee Harvey Oswald.

752
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:06.519
<v Speaker 2>So meanwhile, and it makes perfect.

753
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:11.000
<v Speaker 3>That Lee Harvey Oswell comes up again. Oh we just

754
00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:13.800
<v Speaker 3>heard of Lee Harvey Oswell and the FPCC. Oh, and

755
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:17.079
<v Speaker 3>here we have correspondents from Lee Harvey Oswell, Lee, if

756
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:19.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, maybe we should use this buy in the

757
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:21.079
<v Speaker 3>propaganda project.

758
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:25.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, at the very least, Look, if he's an informant,

759
00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:28.320
<v Speaker 2>then he's useful in that project. And if he's an

760
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:31.239
<v Speaker 2>informant who is not going to be cooperative, then he's still,

761
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:34.559
<v Speaker 2>guess what, useful in that project. So either way, no

762
00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:39.159
<v Speaker 2>matter what his orientation is, he's useful. This isn't the

763
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:41.320
<v Speaker 2>only thing you're going to be discussing at Lancer though, right.

764
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's there's a lot more stuff that you

765
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:44.880
<v Speaker 2>guys are going to go into.

766
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Uh. Yeah, there's a lot more. There's a lot more detail,

767
00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:51.559
<v Speaker 1>of course of who knows what.

768
00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.079
<v Speaker 3>But I think two of the key things we'll be

769
00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:57.960
<v Speaker 3>discussing is what the FBI knew and might have been

770
00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:03.280
<v Speaker 3>doing with Oswald and acknowledge, what the CIA knew and

771
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:06.840
<v Speaker 3>might have been doing with Oswald and dignity acknowledge. But

772
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:11.920
<v Speaker 3>there is other information that's coming available, for example, but

773
00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:14.119
<v Speaker 3>you know, we're not going to have time to cover

774
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:18.800
<v Speaker 3>all of that. There is information as to that develops

775
00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:20.960
<v Speaker 3>from this, as to who else might have known about

776
00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:24.599
<v Speaker 3>Oswald that could have pulled them into a conspiracy and

777
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:27.519
<v Speaker 3>started to manage them because you've got to take trace

778
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:32.119
<v Speaker 3>those trails to Jmwave and Miami Base as well and

779
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:35.679
<v Speaker 3>the Cuban community there. The other thing that comes up

780
00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:38.159
<v Speaker 3>that I brought up in the bog post is we

781
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:40.920
<v Speaker 3>now know from some of the information that's just been

782
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:44.320
<v Speaker 3>released after, you know, making us take another look at it,

783
00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:53.199
<v Speaker 3>that the Castro assassination project, which involved JMWAVE staff paramilitary staff,

784
00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:58.719
<v Speaker 3>which was referred specifically to by Harvey as ZR Rifle

785
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:03.119
<v Speaker 3>slash em I for Miami Station, was very much alive

786
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:06.960
<v Speaker 3>and operational and didn't get canceled out and was still

787
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:09.440
<v Speaker 3>a very very going.

788
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:12.639
<v Speaker 1>Thing up to the time of the assassination.

789
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:15.239
<v Speaker 3>We have no records on it, and one of the

790
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.360
<v Speaker 3>things that's becoming a real question is was it so

791
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:26.800
<v Speaker 3>strictly compartmentalized that nobody, even Fitzgerald, the head of Special

792
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:28.280
<v Speaker 3>Affair staff, was aware of it.

793
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:34.119
<v Speaker 1>Harvey may have been running this bottom line chucked to

794
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:35.119
<v Speaker 1>a nutshell.

795
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:38.880
<v Speaker 3>At the point is Bissell had given Harvey the task

796
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:44.400
<v Speaker 3>to set up an executive assassination program. Harvey had been

797
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:49.960
<v Speaker 3>removed and Helms allowed that to continue, and Helms allowed

798
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:53.800
<v Speaker 3>it to be funded, but there's no sign that anybody

799
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:58.400
<v Speaker 3>ever told Fitzgerald about it. And Fitzgerald launched his own

800
00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:06.079
<v Speaker 3>Castro assassination project with Coebella, and so you may very

801
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:12.199
<v Speaker 3>well have had to completely compartmentalized assassination projects running at

802
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:15.599
<v Speaker 3>the same time through some of the same people, and

803
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:16.519
<v Speaker 3>we never heard.

804
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:16.960
<v Speaker 1>About that either.

805
00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:22.679
<v Speaker 3>There's just a lot that's that these bits of data there,

806
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:28.679
<v Speaker 3>we didn't never really accepted that Harvey was running for

807
00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:33.679
<v Speaker 3>sure with the guys at JM Wave, the paramilitary staff

808
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:38.159
<v Speaker 3>like Morales and Robertson Bradley errors that told us that,

809
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:41.440
<v Speaker 3>but we had no proof of it. Now we find

810
00:50:41.480 --> 00:50:45.280
<v Speaker 3>a record of Harvey that says exactly that, and that's

811
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:49.840
<v Speaker 3>where he was charging his expenses, right.

812
00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:53.280
<v Speaker 2>And meanwhile we also have this other anomalist thing that

813
00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:55.920
<v Speaker 2>went on what we talked about regarding the you know,

814
00:50:56.039 --> 00:50:59.000
<v Speaker 2>the the FAA credentials and all these other things that

815
00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:02.519
<v Speaker 2>go on, which now you have to look at it

816
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:06.880
<v Speaker 2>all differently based on the new information, right, I mean, anyway,

817
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.360
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot to cover here, and clearly you're going

818
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:11.400
<v Speaker 2>to get into it in depth as you and David

819
00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:14.760
<v Speaker 2>do this presentation, uh and and really show us a

820
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:17.679
<v Speaker 2>lot of new stuff. And the funny thing is, look

821
00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the Oswald puzzle. It kind of almost seems like it

822
00:51:20.360 --> 00:51:21.039
<v Speaker 2>needs an addendum.

823
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:25.800
<v Speaker 3>Now, uh, you know that happens to me every time

824
00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:28.920
<v Speaker 3>I swear it's it's kind of it's great in a way,

825
00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:31.639
<v Speaker 3>and then you go, well, you know, how could you

826
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:33.519
<v Speaker 3>Why did you put that in the first book?

827
00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, because I didn't know it for the first edition.

828
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:36.679
<v Speaker 1>What can I tell you?

829
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:37.800
<v Speaker 5>You know, we did.

830
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:41.480
<v Speaker 3>I did three editions, as somewhat have talked, and people went, well,

831
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:43.360
<v Speaker 3>why did why'd you do three editions?

832
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, you learn things over time. You didn't

833
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:49.320
<v Speaker 1>know that, and it's the amazing.

834
00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:52.239
<v Speaker 3>Thing is we're still learning things well news, which is

835
00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:55.000
<v Speaker 3>almost unbelievable this much later.

836
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:57.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, new stuff comes out all the time, and I'll

837
00:51:57.400 --> 00:51:59.039
<v Speaker 2>take it away from you on that. You know, so

838
00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:01.000
<v Speaker 2>it's not just you, but yeah, you have had to

839
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:03.480
<v Speaker 2>add and you've done three versions off someone would have talked,

840
00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:07.199
<v Speaker 2>which I advise all of them are useful, but but

841
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:09.039
<v Speaker 2>if you get the latest one, you get the most

842
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:12.119
<v Speaker 2>complete because new stuff came out. But I always find

843
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:14.639
<v Speaker 2>it funny when some people start saying things about like,

844
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:17.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, the JFK movie with you know, Oliver Stone.

845
00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:19.639
<v Speaker 2>And they turn around and they go, how come you

846
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:21.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't put this in the movie? And I look at

847
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:25.880
<v Speaker 2>it and I go, guys, do you realize that that

848
00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:31.039
<v Speaker 2>stuff like came out after the movie? It came out

849
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:34.280
<v Speaker 2>as a result of the boost that the movie gave

850
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:38.800
<v Speaker 2>to the release the files movement. Like, so it's impossible

851
00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:41.800
<v Speaker 2>for Oliverstone to have put that in the movie. We

852
00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:47.239
<v Speaker 2>didn't have it yet. You know, this is new, so

853
00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:49.760
<v Speaker 2>you can't you know, you can't rewind. You can't go

854
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:51.639
<v Speaker 2>back in your time machine and go, okay, now add

855
00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:54.199
<v Speaker 2>this to the movie. And if you did, you'd screw

856
00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:57.639
<v Speaker 2>things up badly because we didn't have it yet, you know.

857
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:00.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know you've heard that before where somebody

858
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:02.000
<v Speaker 2>said it's kind of weird that he didn't put this

859
00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:04.599
<v Speaker 2>in the movie, and I go, yeah, he couldn't.

860
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:09.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And it's tough because somebody will say, well, now

861
00:53:09.639 --> 00:53:11.679
<v Speaker 3>we know that what you had in your first edition

862
00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:13.559
<v Speaker 3>was wrong on this point.

863
00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:15.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, yeah, we do, and I wish I could

864
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:18.280
<v Speaker 1>edit it, but I do not have a time machine, right,

865
00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:20.679
<v Speaker 1>you know, That's just the way it is. Do you

866
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:24.719
<v Speaker 1>do the basketball is what you have at the moment, right, and.

867
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:27.360
<v Speaker 2>This has contented. Look, and it has continued to evolve,

868
00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:30.480
<v Speaker 2>and there have been, you know, times of rapid evolution,

869
00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:34.119
<v Speaker 2>and there have been very slow years where things have

870
00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:37.079
<v Speaker 2>not gone on. I mean, it felt like forever waiting

871
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:40.039
<v Speaker 2>to get to twenty seventeen, Larry, I got to tell you,

872
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:43.679
<v Speaker 2>and I often talk about this because it was so

873
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:47.679
<v Speaker 2>frustrating waiting to get to twenty seventeen. And then, of course,

874
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:50.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, Trump comes in and everybody screaming at me,

875
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:53.719
<v Speaker 2>you know that was happy about that. They say, oh, well,

876
00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:56.360
<v Speaker 2>he's definitely going to release everything, you know, and don't worry.

877
00:53:56.360 --> 00:53:59.519
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, oh, no, guys, And I told everybody

878
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:02.519
<v Speaker 2>in advance that I said, no, you're about to learn

879
00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:05.400
<v Speaker 2>a very very rough lesson because I'm telling you that,

880
00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:08.679
<v Speaker 2>no matter who's in that office, there is always a

881
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:13.119
<v Speaker 2>reluctance to drop everything out there in the public's you know,

882
00:54:13.400 --> 00:54:16.880
<v Speaker 2>in the public's fingers. It's not going to happen. And

883
00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:19.360
<v Speaker 2>everybody thought, oh, you know, you're just a guy who

884
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:21.960
<v Speaker 2>doesn't want to support Trump. So I'm like, no, it's

885
00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:24.800
<v Speaker 2>got nothing to do with Trump. I'm telling you that

886
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:28.079
<v Speaker 2>they will not release all this stuff, even though we've

887
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:31.119
<v Speaker 2>been waiting twenty five years, and we did. We waited

888
00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:34.760
<v Speaker 2>twenty five years to get to twenty seventeen, and a

889
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:37.480
<v Speaker 2>lot of people forget that. And then when Trump did

890
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:39.159
<v Speaker 2>what he did, and then they went, well, don't worry,

891
00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:41.400
<v Speaker 2>because we'll get another president there and he'll do it different.

892
00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:45.239
<v Speaker 2>And I shook my head again and said, no, guys, listen,

893
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:49.280
<v Speaker 2>we are going to deal with the resistance still. I

894
00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:52.760
<v Speaker 2>promise you. It doesn't matter if it's a Democrat or

895
00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:57.880
<v Speaker 2>a publican, or it doesn't matter. The government doesn't want

896
00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:01.039
<v Speaker 2>to give us this stuff. Watch and learn and what

897
00:55:01.159 --> 00:55:04.800
<v Speaker 2>did Biden do? So, you know, and that's when the

898
00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:07.599
<v Speaker 2>lawsuit started with Mary Farrell and everything, and everybody went, oh,

899
00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:09.400
<v Speaker 2>we got to sue bide him because he was terrible.

900
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:14.400
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, guys, remember that whole Trump disappointment. It's

901
00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:17.719
<v Speaker 2>still gonna happen. So I got to say, at least

902
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:22.679
<v Speaker 2>over this past you know, ten years, it's been interesting

903
00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.920
<v Speaker 2>to watch the evolution and to watch that, you know,

904
00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:27.960
<v Speaker 2>finally we do have a bunch of stuff that we

905
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:30.159
<v Speaker 2>should have had about, you know, eight years ago or so,

906
00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:34.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, finally come out. And I'm glad I'm happy

907
00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:37.360
<v Speaker 2>for the progress. But anybody that thinks that, you know,

908
00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:39.840
<v Speaker 2>it's like flip a switch and it's all gonna come out,

909
00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:45.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, I just I always advise the caution against it, because, sadly,

910
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:48.960
<v Speaker 2>this comes right back to the point that you made. Sadly,

911
00:55:49.639 --> 00:55:51.760
<v Speaker 2>as we write about these things and we analyze them,

912
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:55.320
<v Speaker 2>we can only work with what we have. And true,

913
00:55:55.639 --> 00:55:59.159
<v Speaker 2>the new stuff will change that if there's anything new

914
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:02.960
<v Speaker 2>in it, and sometimes there is. Yes, it's buried in

915
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:05.039
<v Speaker 2>a lot of stuff. And you know this too, and

916
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:06.519
<v Speaker 2>I just want to get your take on this and

917
00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:10.119
<v Speaker 2>then we'll just close it out. But a whole lot

918
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:14.320
<v Speaker 2>of the many many, many, many many pages they come out, right,

919
00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:18.000
<v Speaker 2>and the many many, many many documents that come out,

920
00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:21.239
<v Speaker 2>a whole lot of this stuff. Yes we have seen

921
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:24.639
<v Speaker 2>it before, but it takes somebody, and you're not going

922
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:27.639
<v Speaker 2>to do it with an AI yet. It takes somebody

923
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:31.239
<v Speaker 2>going through it and comparing what we had with what

924
00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:35.480
<v Speaker 2>we now see in order to figure out what's different,

925
00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:39.519
<v Speaker 2>just to begin to know what was added to the information.

926
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:42.000
<v Speaker 2>And then once you do that, you got to take

927
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:44.840
<v Speaker 2>it and put it into context. And that's what Larry does.

928
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:48.880
<v Speaker 2>But again he can only work with what he has.

929
00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:52.320
<v Speaker 2>So you know, when was the first version of someone

930
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:54.599
<v Speaker 2>would have talked. I'm embarrassed to say, I don't remember

931
00:56:54.639 --> 00:56:57.199
<v Speaker 2>what year it came out, but when was the first

932
00:56:57.280 --> 00:56:58.480
<v Speaker 2>version of that book published?

933
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:04.199
<v Speaker 1>It was two thousand and six, okay six, and it

934
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:07.400
<v Speaker 1>came out. It came out as a as a well.

935
00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:10.159
<v Speaker 3>I think actually two thousand and four was the very

936
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:13.480
<v Speaker 3>first version, and it came out in a comb binding

937
00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:17.639
<v Speaker 3>in two thousand and six. Two years later we did

938
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:21.920
<v Speaker 3>the hardcover, and then in twenty and ten we did

939
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:26.159
<v Speaker 3>the soft cover. So it had that happened over period

940
00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:30.199
<v Speaker 3>of about six years, right for those three editions.

941
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:32.960
<v Speaker 2>So the initial thing you're talking about with the combinding,

942
00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:36.079
<v Speaker 2>that's like that plastic spiral stuff that you see sometimes

943
00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:41.320
<v Speaker 2>on that version. I saw those, but I don't have one.

944
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:45.760
<v Speaker 2>I saw those and it was remarkable. It was interesting.

945
00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:48.280
<v Speaker 2>It was like a collection of exactly how far we

946
00:57:48.360 --> 00:57:52.840
<v Speaker 2>could have gone? Ready for this, guys around the fortieth anniversary,

947
00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Like Larry waited for the fortieth anniversary to come and

948
00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:58.880
<v Speaker 2>go and then drop that out there as like this

949
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:03.320
<v Speaker 2>is how far we've got on and you know, now

950
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:10.360
<v Speaker 2>we're past the sixtieth anniversary, okay, and hello, it's twenty

951
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:16.079
<v Speaker 2>years later plus, and yeah, there's been new information. And

952
00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:19.480
<v Speaker 2>you know that is not the fault of a guy

953
00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:23.679
<v Speaker 2>like Larry Hancock or really anybody else that is you know,

954
00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:26.400
<v Speaker 2>doing their best to show you what is available. We

955
00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:28.239
<v Speaker 2>can only work with what we have at the time.

956
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:31.719
<v Speaker 2>And as time has gone on, we've gotten more and

957
00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:34.760
<v Speaker 2>that's the important thing. And even if it's small stuff,

958
00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:38.519
<v Speaker 2>here we go. We're now filling in things and able

959
00:58:38.599 --> 00:58:42.679
<v Speaker 2>to you know, finally clear up any of these sorts

960
00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:46.800
<v Speaker 2>of you know, issues. Like I said before, for many years,

961
00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:52.159
<v Speaker 2>there was this argument in legacy media especially like you know, look,

962
00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:55.079
<v Speaker 2>this loser did this and there's no way that anybody

963
00:58:55.119 --> 00:58:57.639
<v Speaker 2>could have stopped him, and you know, and so on

964
00:58:57.800 --> 00:58:59.920
<v Speaker 2>and so forth. And we're on the other side going, yeah,

965
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:03.320
<v Speaker 2>but he didn't really do it, you know, and they're going, look,

966
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:07.079
<v Speaker 2>you don't want to accept it, because you know, that

967
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:11.000
<v Speaker 2>whole argument has now been undermined. Even though they made

968
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:13.840
<v Speaker 2>that argument for probably I don't know, those first forty

969
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:16.639
<v Speaker 2>years pretty much, you know, I mean, they did it

970
00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:19.639
<v Speaker 2>well ahead of Posner. Posner was just the he's kind

971
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:21.800
<v Speaker 2>of like the last survivor of that group from the

972
00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:26.679
<v Speaker 2>nineties that were introduced out there to counter you know,

973
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:31.719
<v Speaker 2>the counter myth of you know, of Oliver Stones film

974
00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:35.599
<v Speaker 2>and the impact it made. And therefore we're still dealing

975
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:38.280
<v Speaker 2>with the legacy of that because guess what, that's where

976
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:42.480
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these documents came from the aftermath of that.

977
00:59:42.679 --> 00:59:45.920
<v Speaker 2>So anyway, Larry, anyway you want to close this out,

978
00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:49.159
<v Speaker 2>let's just do that and we may talk on Friday

979
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:51.960
<v Speaker 2>briefly and we may get one more chance to talk

980
00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:55.599
<v Speaker 2>before Lancer. But really grateful that you took the time

981
00:59:55.639 --> 00:59:57.519
<v Speaker 2>to do this with us tonight. But anything you want

982
00:59:57.559 --> 00:59:59.159
<v Speaker 2>to say in closing the floor is yours.

983
01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think, just to illustrate your last point, it's

984
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:06.079
<v Speaker 3>come a higher level point.

985
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:10.039
<v Speaker 1>Shock is at some point in time, we have to

986
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.079
<v Speaker 1>learn that we're not going to be given all the

987
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:15.119
<v Speaker 1>information we want, and we have to accept that.

988
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:17.840
<v Speaker 3>But we're also going to have to learn that we

989
01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:23.280
<v Speaker 3>can't necessarily trust all the denials. People should have said

990
01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:26.119
<v Speaker 3>things we now know they knew things that they should

991
01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:29.880
<v Speaker 3>have said. There should have been whistleblowers, there were not

992
01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:33.480
<v Speaker 3>at the time. That just didn't happen, and so people

993
01:00:33.679 --> 01:00:37.199
<v Speaker 3>like Posner and those folks should not be allowed to

994
01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:39.840
<v Speaker 3>get away with the premise that, well, if there'd been

995
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:43.320
<v Speaker 3>something shady going on at any level, people would have

996
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:46.280
<v Speaker 3>revealed that. Their consciousness would have been clear, they would

997
01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:50.079
<v Speaker 3>have shared that, and so we can really trust what

998
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:54.719
<v Speaker 3>we're you know, we can trust their lack of information. Okay,

999
01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:56.960
<v Speaker 3>we don't have to question that there's nothing more in there,

1000
01:00:57.800 --> 01:00:58.760
<v Speaker 3>or they would have told us.

1001
01:00:59.079 --> 01:01:02.880
<v Speaker 1>I kind of strikes me. It's like I interviewed the.

1002
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:09.599
<v Speaker 3>News photographer video guy who had been in the sixty

1003
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:14.480
<v Speaker 3>four schoolbook depository on the sixty four after the assassination.

1004
01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:18.239
<v Speaker 3>He saw the bullets being picked up, he saw them

1005
01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:22.360
<v Speaker 3>being thrown down, he saw them being taken in, photographed

1006
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:24.840
<v Speaker 3>his evidence after they've been picked up and thrown down.

1007
01:01:26.360 --> 01:01:34.239
<v Speaker 3>And I challenged him about that, and basically he said, yeah,

1008
01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:39.719
<v Speaker 3>that's right. So the police, what's the photographic record regarding

1009
01:01:39.800 --> 01:01:45.719
<v Speaker 3>to the halls, shellcaseinges, and the boxes. It's false because

1010
01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:47.960
<v Speaker 3>they screwed up how they did it. The crime scene

1011
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:50.719
<v Speaker 3>guy didn't know what he was doing. He mishandled it

1012
01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:54.000
<v Speaker 3>and they had to refilm all of that later. And

1013
01:01:54.239 --> 01:01:58.199
<v Speaker 3>I said, well, okay, Tom, all right, And then he said,

1014
01:01:58.239 --> 01:02:01.800
<v Speaker 3>but of course, all the other evident was good. So

1015
01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:04.920
<v Speaker 3>it's like, Tom, you just told me that the Dallas

1016
01:02:05.079 --> 01:02:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Police reconfigured crime scene evidence and it doesn't reflect the

1017
01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:13.039
<v Speaker 3>true story. And then they swore that it was accurate.

1018
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:16.639
<v Speaker 3>Yet you trust everything else that they said, and he

1019
01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:19.239
<v Speaker 3>said yeah, And so at that point in time, I

1020
01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:21.400
<v Speaker 3>just paid for lunch and we walked away.

1021
01:02:21.519 --> 01:02:26.880
<v Speaker 1>And it's like, wait a minute, no, you can't.

1022
01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:29.960
<v Speaker 3>If you can prove this part is false, you can't

1023
01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:32.719
<v Speaker 3>just blithely accept everything else as being through.

1024
01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:35.880
<v Speaker 2>You're talking about Tom Olier, the guy who actually took

1025
01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:39.159
<v Speaker 2>the film inside the uh, you know, the sixth floor

1026
01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:41.039
<v Speaker 2>and threw his film out the window to get it

1027
01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:42.039
<v Speaker 2>out to the team.

1028
01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Stay, we lost the connection.

1029
01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:47.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I'm sorry. Let me just double check.

1030
01:02:47.320 --> 01:02:48.599
<v Speaker 1>Here, Chuck, I think you went away.

1031
01:02:48.840 --> 01:02:53.159
<v Speaker 2>Here we are, here, we are. I got it. You're talking. Yeah,

1032
01:02:53.199 --> 01:02:58.519
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about Tom Olier and Tom And what's amazing, guy,

1033
01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:00.880
<v Speaker 2>what's amazing is this is the guy who is just

1034
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:03.079
<v Speaker 2>for the listeners. This is the guy who's responsible for

1035
01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:07.039
<v Speaker 2>filming inside the sixth floor, you know, of the depository

1036
01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:10.119
<v Speaker 2>and that black and white film of the alleged search

1037
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:13.440
<v Speaker 2>and everything. And he's the guy who you know legendarily

1038
01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:15.320
<v Speaker 2>threw his film out the window to get it over

1039
01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:18.559
<v Speaker 2>to the TV station. And it's a great piece of

1040
01:03:18.639 --> 01:03:21.960
<v Speaker 2>film and everything. But when you learn that a lot

1041
01:03:22.039 --> 01:03:27.239
<v Speaker 2>of things were photographed and staged afterwards, and then you go, okay, now,

1042
01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:30.440
<v Speaker 2>I know I have staged photographs of the evidence being

1043
01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:32.639
<v Speaker 2>laid down, but he's willing to accept the rest of it.

1044
01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:35.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's kind of funny because it negates all

1045
01:03:35.559 --> 01:03:38.960
<v Speaker 2>those analyzes of, well, look at where the bullets are.

1046
01:03:39.039 --> 01:03:41.239
<v Speaker 2>Did they actually you know, get ejected from the rifle

1047
01:03:41.360 --> 01:03:43.880
<v Speaker 2>like this or that? Yeah, it doesn't really matter if

1048
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:47.079
<v Speaker 2>these guys just threw them back on the floor, okay,

1049
01:03:47.239 --> 01:03:53.159
<v Speaker 2>because they've destroyed the crime scene. Now, okay, that's that's it.

1050
01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:54.000
<v Speaker 2>It's over.

1051
01:03:54.280 --> 01:03:57.679
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, for all the boxes like that, if you

1052
01:03:58.239 --> 01:04:00.119
<v Speaker 3>go to the Warrant Commission and you look at this

1053
01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:04.039
<v Speaker 3>great layout and photographs of Oswalds shooting position right.

1054
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:07.360
<v Speaker 1>And Tom told me, no, that box was not out

1055
01:04:07.360 --> 01:04:09.320
<v Speaker 1>in the window like that. I thought it was not

1056
01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:10.400
<v Speaker 1>out in the window like that.

1057
01:04:11.079 --> 01:04:15.000
<v Speaker 3>It's like they put it out it what you know,

1058
01:04:15.159 --> 01:04:18.679
<v Speaker 3>it just made no sense whatsoever. Which so that's kind

1059
01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:22.719
<v Speaker 3>of a you know, one of those moments when you go, oh, geez, okay,

1060
01:04:23.559 --> 01:04:26.599
<v Speaker 3>I better, I better open the filter a little bit.

1061
01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:30.039
<v Speaker 3>I can't take all of this is self evident, right.

1062
01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:33.039
<v Speaker 2>And here's the funny part about that is that metaphorically

1063
01:04:33.159 --> 01:04:36.360
<v Speaker 2>it's perfect what you're bringing up because for years people said, look,

1064
01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:41.679
<v Speaker 2>they're staring at photographs and film pieces and saying, the

1065
01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:45.880
<v Speaker 2>boxes have been moved. Right, So people were doing that

1066
01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:49.719
<v Speaker 2>from way outside with a blurry picture, going the boxes

1067
01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:52.280
<v Speaker 2>have been moved. They're not in the same configuration they

1068
01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:56.719
<v Speaker 2>were fifteen minutes ago, and people did studies on this,

1069
01:04:57.119 --> 01:05:00.719
<v Speaker 2>and people were thought people were nuts. Why are you

1070
01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:06.239
<v Speaker 2>studying the boxes? They're moving them, is why? Okay, they're

1071
01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:09.639
<v Speaker 2>being moved. So this whole concept and even when you

1072
01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:11.719
<v Speaker 2>go to look at the six floor Museum, I'm sorry

1073
01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:13.800
<v Speaker 2>to say, you go to look at the six floor

1074
01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:16.559
<v Speaker 2>Museum and they have, you know, the glass around the

1075
01:05:16.639 --> 01:05:20.719
<v Speaker 2>sixth floor window with the boxes, and they go, okay, indeed,

1076
01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:23.079
<v Speaker 2>those may be exactly the same kind of boxes that

1077
01:05:23.159 --> 01:05:25.360
<v Speaker 2>were there in nineteen sixty three. They may even be

1078
01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:33.440
<v Speaker 2>the boxes, but they're not configured correctly. They're not shown

1079
01:05:33.639 --> 01:05:36.199
<v Speaker 2>because they were being moved around and people knew it

1080
01:05:36.320 --> 01:05:39.760
<v Speaker 2>from outside the window with a blurry picture for years

1081
01:05:39.800 --> 01:05:45.320
<v Speaker 2>and years, and remarkably, you could have heard from other people.

1082
01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:48.079
<v Speaker 2>They could have blown the whistle, like you said, and said,

1083
01:05:48.119 --> 01:05:51.599
<v Speaker 2>I saw these things move, I knew this, this happened,

1084
01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:53.840
<v Speaker 2>and that happened. Well, why didn't you say anything? Well,

1085
01:05:53.920 --> 01:05:56.960
<v Speaker 2>the rest of the evidence seemed good. So and that's that.

1086
01:05:57.519 --> 01:05:59.320
<v Speaker 2>That explains a lot, doesn't.

1087
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:03.519
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to trust everything else, The crime scene guy said, yeah,

1088
01:06:03.719 --> 01:06:07.320
<v Speaker 3>And I tended to. I tended to give Tom some credibility.

1089
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:10.119
<v Speaker 3>And here's the reason, other than he was just being

1090
01:06:10.159 --> 01:06:11.639
<v Speaker 3>sincere and adamant about it.

1091
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:13.880
<v Speaker 1>But it was like he published on his.

1092
01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:18.920
<v Speaker 3>Own three different newsletters which I bought copies of, that

1093
01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:23.599
<v Speaker 3>asserted the absolute truth of Oswald being the low nut shooter.

1094
01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:26.760
<v Speaker 3>I mean, his whole point was to push back against

1095
01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:30.679
<v Speaker 3>conspiracy people. Yet as part of that he was presenting

1096
01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:37.000
<v Speaker 3>his own information, you know, undermining the evidence in custody

1097
01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:40.280
<v Speaker 3>by the Dallas police. And so it's like I figured

1098
01:06:40.559 --> 01:06:43.679
<v Speaker 3>he must be he must be sincere. If he's that

1099
01:06:43.880 --> 01:06:46.480
<v Speaker 3>you know that bipolar.

1100
01:06:47.440 --> 01:06:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Well there you go, because why would you even undermine

1101
01:06:50.519 --> 01:06:55.239
<v Speaker 2>your own case otherwise? So no, and I find that completely.

1102
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:18.599
<v Speaker 12>The war State by Michael Swanson explains the great national

1103
01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:21.639
<v Speaker 12>transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in

1104
01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:25.119
<v Speaker 12>the context of the times, and reveals never before published

1105
01:07:25.159 --> 01:07:28.800
<v Speaker 12>information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not

1106
01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:31.519
<v Speaker 12>have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred

1107
01:07:31.599 --> 01:07:34.920
<v Speaker 12>years ago. His assassination took place in the context of

1108
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:37.960
<v Speaker 12>the Cold War and the rise of the national security state.

1109
01:07:38.079 --> 01:07:41.559
<v Speaker 12>Before World War II, the United States was a continental republic.

1110
01:07:41.960 --> 01:07:44.960
<v Speaker 12>In the decade that followed, it became an imperial superpower.

1111
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:48.679
<v Speaker 12>Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade Cuba,

1112
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:51.119
<v Speaker 12>but knew that there were short range missiles on the

1113
01:07:51.199 --> 01:07:54.320
<v Speaker 12>island aren't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy

1114
01:07:54.440 --> 01:07:57.239
<v Speaker 12>because they were on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have

1115
01:07:57.360 --> 01:08:00.360
<v Speaker 12>led to a Third World War, and they wanted to

1116
01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:01.559
<v Speaker 12>go to war anyway.

1117
01:08:01.840 --> 01:08:04.119
<v Speaker 8>The War State by Michael Swanson.

1118
01:08:03.960 --> 01:08:06.719
<v Speaker 12>Reveals why and will show you what President Kennedy was

1119
01:08:06.800 --> 01:08:10.159
<v Speaker 12>up against. For more information, the Warstate dot Com