Speaker 1: Callaroga Shark Media. Hi there, I'm Johnny back and if
Speaker 1: you listen to yesterday's episode was a crossover episode with
Speaker 1: The Letterman Podcast. Mike Chisholm, who hosts The Letterman Podcast,
Speaker 1: made a list of the top ten late night hosts
Speaker 1: of all time, and we made it all the way
Speaker 1: through number seven. We got a little chatty in case
Speaker 1: you missed it, Number ten with Steve Allen, nine, Orsennil
Speaker 1: Hall eight, Craig ferguson number seven, the Worst Guy who
Speaker 1: Ever lived, Jay Leno, and we did twenty minutes on
Speaker 1: Jay Leno at the end of yesterday's episode, which made
Speaker 1: the episode kind along, so I had to split it
Speaker 1: in two. So if you missed it, go back and
Speaker 1: listen to yesterday. And here is the rest of the list.
Speaker 2: I'm glad we spend as much time on Jay as
Speaker 2: we as we did. We're gonna move to number six now,
Speaker 2: and this is the first one where it comes with
Speaker 2: somebody sort of attached to it. There's two of them
Speaker 2: here or three of them here maybe that have somebody
Speaker 2: attached to them. Number six is John Stewart. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: just say this flat out. In the last five Stephen
Speaker 2: Colbert is not one of them. But with well, okay,
Speaker 2: so right there, that's the result. But but but we're
Speaker 2: sint Colbert off the air?
Speaker 1: What is wrong with you? Mike there? Taking him off
Speaker 1: and right and a lot of show and he kept
Speaker 1: the late show franchise going and and whoa not on
Speaker 1: the list? Very see this is exactly why I don't
Speaker 1: want to see your list.
Speaker 2: Great example. You should teach that to the what do
Speaker 2: you what do you teach?
Speaker 1: By the way, In the fall, I teach introduction, Well,
Speaker 1: it was introduction of radio, and I went to the university.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you got me teaching introduction of horse and buggy.
Speaker 1: We got to rebrand this. Uh so now it's radio
Speaker 1: podcast of streaming good And I teach a management course
Speaker 1: of that in the spring. And then at the other university,
Speaker 1: I teach podcasting production, which isn't just here's how you
Speaker 1: hit recorder, here's how you master it. I'll do a
Speaker 1: lot of weeks about out. Here's how we approach the content,
Speaker 1: here's what we're trying to do, here's why we do
Speaker 1: these things, and how you approach the creative before we
Speaker 1: even try and hit record.
Speaker 2: Oh that's great, you know it talks about the Testament
Speaker 2: to communication. It was intro to radio, and then it
Speaker 2: became intro to what's the name of it now?
Speaker 1: I think it's right now. I think it's radio, streaming
Speaker 1: and media, sorry, and podcasting, which it's unofficially been for
Speaker 1: about five years. Don't tell anybody. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: if you want me to teach you about how an
Speaker 1: AM transmitter works, I can. I don't know what you're
Speaker 1: gonna do with the information. I know how to edit
Speaker 1: with a razor blade. I've done it. I was pretty
Speaker 1: good at it. But let me show you pro tools.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, just the name of the course though,
Speaker 2: you're gonna get a lineup versus crickets on the other
Speaker 2: side like calling it streaming podcasting it like, that's yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a no brainer. Alex Bennett and I talk about
Speaker 2: this all the time. I use the word broadcasting all
Speaker 2: the time, and it drives Alex up the wall because
Speaker 2: he's just left broadcasting is this and it's this? Is it?
Speaker 2: Just you know, has the line of what broadcast? This
Speaker 2: is not broadcasting, streaming is not broadcasting. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's the it's the I I appreciate that. I
Speaker 2: appreciate that broadcasting does have, you know, some finite rules,
Speaker 2: you know, But at the end of the day, what
Speaker 2: are we doing here? I mean, it's all it is
Speaker 2: all broadcasting for that, That's what it's for, right. It's
Speaker 2: not the it's not the tools that make it happen.
Speaker 2: It's the fact that it's happening at all. That's why
Speaker 2: we're doing it right.
Speaker 1: Well, the podcasting industry right now, what is a podcast? Like,
Speaker 1: is this a podcast? Well, there's cameras on so yes
Speaker 1: and no, and the video version might be. The audio
Speaker 1: version definitely is. And if I put Bill Simmons on Netflix,
Speaker 1: is that a podcast? TikTok started live streaming things and
Speaker 1: using the word podcast. Now I'll Alex Bennett that and
Speaker 1: be like, hey, live stream on TikTok is not a podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, yep.
Speaker 1: But then I'll also come back to it and say
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter whatever the audience thinks. As a podcast,
Speaker 1: that's what a podcast is. So if you call this
Speaker 1: thing the Letterman podcast and Sunset the audio version and Netflix,
Speaker 1: there's your money and it's there and people stare at
Speaker 1: this conversation, that's a podcast because.
Speaker 2: You said it where you go, that's you said what
Speaker 2: sense orright?
Speaker 1: And also at that point you'll have to come up
Speaker 1: with a different name, because at that point mister d
Speaker 1: will be like, uh, you know, am I getting any
Speaker 1: of this money here? Or so you got a Netflix deal,
Speaker 1: so you you'll have to call it like d Lman.
Speaker 2: Pod Fantasies like that are really funny. Yeah, John Stewart
Speaker 2: is number six, So John Stewart, And to me, John
Speaker 2: Stewart gets the nod and and he comes with him
Speaker 2: a contingent of people. Cool Bear is one of them.
Speaker 2: But to me, there's a guy who you talk about,
Speaker 2: a guy who changed Late Night and really at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, I mean, so many people would
Speaker 2: watch Saturday Night Live back in the day for Demis
Speaker 2: Miller or for Norm McDonald or for what we came
Speaker 2: up to. It has always been such a powerful you know,
Speaker 2: not necessarily the news, all of these different well, the
Speaker 2: idea that Madeline Smithberg those people could come up and
Speaker 2: and and and put the the rocket onto John Stewart
Speaker 2: and created a version of the Daily Show that would
Speaker 2: become iconic. And and and not only that he is
Speaker 2: a king, but he's also a king maker in Colbert
Speaker 2: and and other people of course, John Oliver, and and
Speaker 2: and and and the idea that John Stuart you know,
Speaker 2: he I don't, I don't. I think he's getting the
Speaker 2: reverence that he deserves. The comeback this year has really
Speaker 2: shown that he does have a reverence out there, and
Speaker 2: he is one of those guys he's kind of transcending.
Speaker 2: Conan's transcending as well. You're seeing it start to happen
Speaker 2: with Jimmy where they were were where where they become
Speaker 2: more than just a late night talk show host, but
Speaker 2: that becomes something else. Dave of course did it years ago.
Speaker 2: John Stewart's at that place right now. Colbert is gonna
Speaker 2: be at that place after he retires, and probably if
Speaker 2: we did this list next year as a result of
Speaker 2: when he does retire and all the the the the
Speaker 2: the Gaga and the Bally Whu that's gonna surround that.
Speaker 2: But right now he's gonna John's it's going to be
Speaker 2: the guy at number six on the top ten late
Speaker 2: night hosts of all time. John Stewart, New York guy.
Speaker 2: You're a New York guy. You cross paths with him
Speaker 2: very often in your career.
Speaker 1: No, I've never run into John either. So I'm struggling
Speaker 1: with this one, much like what is a podcast? When
Speaker 1: you say to me late night, my brain goes to
Speaker 1: the Steve Allen template. There there's a desk in a
Speaker 1: city scape behind it. It kind of looks like you
Speaker 1: were set up there, and we do a monologue and
Speaker 1: some guests come out and we go home, and John
Speaker 1: Stewart's not doing that. Is he in the hall of
Speaker 1: fame of whatever hall of fame we're making? Absolutely? Is
Speaker 1: he a king maker? Absolutely? Is he hilarious? Absolutely? Is
Speaker 1: he influential on culture? Absolutely? What else can I say
Speaker 1: about him?
Speaker 2: Is awesome?
Speaker 1: Does he walk the talk? Yeah, you know the stuff
Speaker 1: he's done for veterans. Wow, what an awesome dude. And yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: yes yes. But in my small brain he's in a
Speaker 1: different filing cabinet than Jay Leno and Steve Allen that
Speaker 1: he's doing something else. He's over here with John Oliver.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned not necessarily the News, which is not
Speaker 1: a late night show, But why is the Daily Show
Speaker 1: a late night show? And not necessarily News isn't And
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I don't care, So I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna like throw tomatoes at my screen and be like,
Speaker 1: this list is outrageous. I just you know, let's make
Speaker 1: some other list and put him at number one.
Speaker 2: He's awesome.
Speaker 1: I just feel like it's for me something in a
Speaker 1: different category.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, okay, so I used to feel the same
Speaker 2: way that you did. So this is just a testament
Speaker 2: to way that when we zone in on this stuff,
Speaker 2: those of us who are nerds for this stuff, that's
Speaker 2: the way that our brain kind of works. I was
Speaker 2: actually convinced the other way. And I listened to it,
Speaker 2: and I'll name drop her for sure. Madeline Suithberg and
Speaker 2: I we we chat, you know, I would say frequently, Yeah, frequently, moderate, moderately, frequently,
Speaker 2: Madeline Suthberg and I will chat, and she's gonna come
Speaker 2: on the show here at some point. But I asked
Speaker 2: that question. I asked her that question. I said, okay, well,
Speaker 2: is the Daily Show a late night show? And she
Speaker 2: convinced me of it. It was? It was? It was
Speaker 2: what because the desk comes out early, it's not a
Speaker 2: late night show? What because? And I mean that's not
Speaker 2: something that she said. She was far more elo eloquent
Speaker 2: in what she said. But but I am now back
Speaker 2: on board where Yeah, no, I believe Daily Show is
Speaker 2: a late night show. It's it's you know, it's nightly.
Speaker 2: They have guests, they you know. To me, I think
Speaker 2: the Daily Show actually changed late night. I was having
Speaker 2: this conversation with Scott Ryan, who wrote Last Days of Letterman.
Speaker 2: We were talking about this. We were wondering when the
Speaker 2: first time, Like, I don't think Dave ever did a
Speaker 2: monologue where a screen showed up beside him and there
Speaker 2: was like, you know, graphics that were enhancing the jokes.
Speaker 2: But he did definitely throw to video packages within the monologue,
Speaker 2: like like famously the very last Late Show. One of
Speaker 2: the things that he said in the middle of the monologue,
Speaker 2: okay now it's on for a new segment comedy we
Speaker 2: would have done tomorrow. There are a bunch of jokes
Speaker 2: that were still topic. It's just very good, very very
Speaker 2: yeah nice. When did Dave add that to the monologue? Well,
Speaker 2: it was certainly after the Daily Show showed up. Never
Speaker 2: mind the fact that you had, you know, other hosts
Speaker 2: at other desks who had the graphic and was being helped. Well,
Speaker 2: now they're really merging into two like and so anyway,
Speaker 2: I'm convinced that The Daily Show is a late night show,
Speaker 2: and that's why John's on the list. But yeah, powerful
Speaker 2: powerful force in nature in late night nature. There's no
Speaker 2: question about that. Absolutely. Number five, we're going to the imitator,
Speaker 2: the guy who wants to be David Letterman, and that
Speaker 2: is Jimmy Kimmel. I think if September this of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five hadn't happened, he would have been further up
Speaker 2: the list. He might not have made the list. But
Speaker 2: I said earlier that I think that Jimmy is transcending
Speaker 2: and he's going past this place of into the next zone,
Speaker 2: whatever that is. Who knows how long he's gonna do
Speaker 2: it for, but he has certainly, you know, got all.
Speaker 2: He deserves to be on this list because ABC never
Speaker 2: had a late night show for the same reason that
Speaker 2: that that Letterman gets all the accolades for giving CBS
Speaker 2: their late night show. Jimmy Kimmel did it for ABC.
Speaker 2: You talk about it network. That gave a guy time
Speaker 2: to find his voice and become something. My gosh, remember
Speaker 2: the original It's called Jimmy Kimmel Live because they were live.
Speaker 2: They were all live at first, and he couldn't get
Speaker 2: guests and the audience could drink, and there was all
Speaker 2: sorts of crazy stuff that this play started with and
Speaker 2: what it's evolved into, it's evolved into David Letterman light.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, he is the combination of
Speaker 2: Jay Leno and David Letterman, because you've got this guy
Speaker 2: who works for ABC. Well, he happens to be a
Speaker 2: Star Wars fan, he happens to be a Marvel Comics fan,
Speaker 2: he happens to be a fan of of of the
Speaker 2: network that owns him and all of their properties, and
Speaker 2: so every time one of these new projects comes out,
Speaker 2: he can do a collab with them, and he can
Speaker 2: do well. This is the stuff that len I loved
Speaker 2: about the Tonight Show and the stuff that Dave. Dave hated,
Speaker 2: He didn't like doing that stuff at all. You know,
Speaker 2: Jimmy has embraced that and has done a phenomenal job
Speaker 2: at that. Then you've got the fact that he's hosted
Speaker 2: the Oscars and done all sorts of things that Johnny
Speaker 2: Carson did back in the day and did very very
Speaker 2: well at it. To me, Jimmy Kimmel is absolutely worthy
Speaker 2: of being number five on the top ten late night
Speaker 2: hosts of all time. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1: I feel you have him too high. I am favorable
Speaker 1: towards Jimmy Kimmel. I think if we think in terms
Speaker 1: of two things, skin of mind. In terms of baseball,
Speaker 1: for my beloved eighty six Mets, he had Twin Good
Speaker 1: and doctor k with the incredible not just the fastball
Speaker 1: and striking people out, he had this incredible curve ball.
Speaker 1: He's David Letterman. And then behind him you had Ron
Speaker 1: Darling quily going about his business winning fifteen games a
Speaker 1: year and sitting in that number two slot. And I
Speaker 1: feel like Kimmel on his walk to the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: And we'll see what this final act is, however long
Speaker 1: it is, whether it is another year and a half
Speaker 1: for longer. Is accumulating innings and they're nice, solid innings.
Speaker 1: But he's definitely not making Mount Rushmore right, which doesn't
Speaker 1: mean bad. Not everyone makes Mount Rushmore Yep. I just
Speaker 1: feel like it's high. I have to look at the
Speaker 1: final list and and does he make it? Why is it?
Speaker 1: Why is he making it?
Speaker 2: Over?
Speaker 1: Stephen Colbert, can we have that discussion or is that
Speaker 1: for later?
Speaker 2: Absolute? No, you know the discussion right now? Absolutely? Yeah,
Speaker 2: Colbert didn't make the list because as far as he's
Speaker 2: in the he's in that Stuart category and and and
Speaker 2: so he gets that's where his that's where his sort
Speaker 2: of honorable mention comes in. So I cheated a little bit, okay,
Speaker 2: you know, because uh, he was the he was the
Speaker 2: king that that that Stuart made. But again this time
Speaker 2: next year, when we see how he leaves Late Show
Speaker 2: or the Late Show and what happens, you know, we
Speaker 2: might be a different list next year. But yeah, Kimmel,
Speaker 2: to me, this was this was a debate that I
Speaker 2: had in my head, and I'm like, well, it's not
Speaker 2: that I'm not going to mention him, but but Kimmel,
Speaker 2: the fact that he got brought back the way that
Speaker 2: he did, and thank goodness, you don't have to boycott
Speaker 2: this stuff anymore. I'm so grateful for that, the fact
Speaker 2: that he got brought back the way that he did
Speaker 2: and whatnot. Just this year here, it just showed that
Speaker 2: he is He's one of those guys and I just
Speaker 2: feel like he is transcending out of and he's becoming
Speaker 2: bigger than what it is that he does. I just
Speaker 2: feel like Kimmel's making that transformation right now.
Speaker 1: So while we're touching on Colbert, how do you how
Speaker 1: do you walk off? Is the right move? Just hey,
Speaker 1: let's book every a level star.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like that's the right move for Colbert.
Speaker 1: I feel like his walk off needs to be more
Speaker 1: thoughtful and say something. So I don't need Tom Cruise
Speaker 1: coming by to promote Mission Impossible ten. I need him
Speaker 1: to do something with some weight and speak to the
Speaker 1: nation and speak to the moment. And I don't know
Speaker 1: what that is, but it's not just Sebastian Maniscalko coming
Speaker 1: on doing his stand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I feel like when Dave, like again,
Speaker 2: I've said that the greatest six weeks of entertainment in
Speaker 2: my entire life was the last six weeks of Late
Speaker 2: Show with David Letterman. They threw the kitchen sink at it.
Speaker 2: But the kitchen sink that they threw was a version
Speaker 2: of Johnny Carson's kitchen sink. Yeah, you know, it was
Speaker 2: laid out very similarly. There would be lots of clips
Speaker 2: of things that happened over the years, and when you
Speaker 2: have a wits and breadth of body of work, you
Speaker 2: can do that. Well. Colbert doesn't have that Colbert's got
Speaker 2: ten years unless you start bringing in the Comedy Central stuff.
Speaker 2: And if you start bringing in the Comedy Central stuff
Speaker 2: from the rapport, okay, you can do that, and there
Speaker 2: might be a unique version of that kitchen sink that
Speaker 2: can be done. And like you said earlier, they combine
Speaker 2: it with bringing back a bringing a list stars, but
Speaker 2: of course bringing back friends of the show. If there's
Speaker 2: an ingredient that needs to be included with Colbert's exit,
Speaker 2: I firmly believe that whoever are considered friends of his
Speaker 2: show need to be deeply involved in it. And of
Speaker 2: course the top of that list is of course John Stewart, right,
Speaker 2: So I think there are ways that you could customize,
Speaker 2: you know, what the ending is going to look like,
Speaker 2: but it's gonna have to do with the friends of
Speaker 2: the show. He's got a lot more political friends than
Speaker 2: Letterman or Carson ever did, so, so that that's gonna
Speaker 2: be an interesting element to it as well, because his
Speaker 2: show is very political. It's a political show, so I
Speaker 2: think it does need to be different though, because it
Speaker 2: is such a different show than what Letterman and Carson did.
Speaker 1: Boy, weird shit, it's time to get some business in here.
Speaker 1: We'll take a break, we'll come back. We'll talk a
Speaker 1: little bit more with Mike Chisholm about the top ten
Speaker 1: late night hosts of all time. Mike Chisholm hosts The
Speaker 1: Letterman Podcast. He is today's guest, and we're discussing his
Speaker 1: list of the top ten late night hosts of all time?
Speaker 1: And how many do we have left? I'm playing along.
Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil the show. I have five
Speaker 1: head that you could throw out, you know, so there's
Speaker 1: very obvious there's four left, and I have four life names.
Speaker 2: Like exactly, and I think I know what I want
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't want to throw names out and ruin
Speaker 1: it for the audience, but I would imagine people can
Speaker 1: guess it at least three of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Number four is our boy, Conan O'Brien,
Speaker 2: And you know that's one of the names for sure.
Speaker 2: There's no question Conan. How do you follow David Letterman?
Speaker 2: You know? And Conan not only did it, but did
Speaker 2: it right. He did a phenomenal job taking over the
Speaker 2: mantle of late night. He was so resilient as late
Speaker 2: night became similar to the Letterman Carson thing, you know,
Speaker 2: when Letterman was on at twelve thirty, there was a
Speaker 2: point where his show was the hip Show and the
Speaker 2: Tonight Show was the anchor that the Hip Show was
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, attached to the same thing happened
Speaker 2: with Conan and Leno. You know, there was a point
Speaker 2: where where Conan was the hip guy. He was the
Speaker 2: guy that was they were getting to host the Emmy's
Speaker 2: just like Dave. He was the guy that was knocking
Speaker 2: the ball out of the park, creating new types of
Speaker 2: of the way to present the show, his travel shows,
Speaker 2: you know, and then of course the resilience of weathering
Speaker 2: the storms, and he had a lot of them at
Speaker 2: the beginning, of course, during the Late Night years. You know,
Speaker 2: of course, how do you react to having the Tonight
Speaker 2: Show taken from you after it was promised to you
Speaker 2: for five years? You know. And and Conan, you know,
Speaker 2: leaving Late Night. The deal that he signed was serious,
Speaker 2: the podcast, all the relevance that Conan has in life,
Speaker 2: and right now, at this time, I just want to
Speaker 2: throw a shout out to he and his family and
Speaker 2: all the stuff that they're going through right now. They
Speaker 2: are just Oh what a way that they're in it
Speaker 2: right now. You know, the most unpredictable kind of thing.
Speaker 2: You know, we just have so much love for Conan
Speaker 2: and respect for him, and of course he's going to
Speaker 2: be on this list, and he's going to be really
Speaker 2: high up on this list. So that's why he's at
Speaker 2: number four, you.
Speaker 1: Know, not to bring the showdown, but one of the
Speaker 1: things as a producer, I try and look ahead to
Speaker 1: the stories of the next six months or the next year.
Speaker 1: I fear we're going to have a major celebrity trial
Speaker 1: where lawyers are going to want to ask Conan O'Brien
Speaker 1: what happened at that party? And I could see a
Speaker 1: defense attorney saying, well, why didn't you call nine one one?
Speaker 1: When people said, like, I fear Conan's going to be
Speaker 1: in the news for reasons no one deserves to be
Speaker 1: in the news. What a horrible tragedy, obviously, but I
Speaker 1: just want to, you know, put that out there into
Speaker 1: the universe that I think we're going to see Conan's
Speaker 1: name in the news in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I absolutely, absolutely, and and and I just
Speaker 2: but you know that stuff is going to work itself out,
Speaker 2: you know, you know that stuff is you know, hindsight
Speaker 2: is twenty twenty. Could I have done something different? Okay,
Speaker 2: there's there, there's that, But then there's also the the
Speaker 2: heart part. And I mean, I know that they're all
Speaker 2: I've heard a couple of grape vine things, and there's
Speaker 2: a lot of people that are really sad right now,
Speaker 2: and and and and really just hurt, and and and
Speaker 2: and and and devastated in fact, and and and I
Speaker 2: just feel so bad for that part of it as well.
Speaker 2: That the course, you're right, it's gonna be if this
Speaker 2: trial is public, it's going to be, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: it's going to be like the OJ trial. It's going
Speaker 2: to be. It'll be a circus. Hopefully that can be
Speaker 2: circumvented somehow. I don't know if there's what the laws
Speaker 2: are and if there's special circumstances if if that then
Speaker 2: seals things, I don't know if that would happen. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think you're I think you're right. I think it's
Speaker 2: going to become a circus. But at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, when a circus is happening and people are
Speaker 2: genuinely hurt and there's all this stuff going on around them,
Speaker 2: like that's the part where I'm just like just just
Speaker 2: everybody who's involved in that situation know that there are
Speaker 2: people out there in public who are just pulling for
Speaker 2: you and we're thinking about yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: I say none of this flippantly, just as someone who
Speaker 1: analyzes things. This makes Conan's bio it oh bit. It
Speaker 1: might be one sentence in the seventh paragraph, but it's
Speaker 1: going to make his obituary and again a horrible situation.
Speaker 1: I don't mean to be the least bit flippant about
Speaker 1: this situation, and I hope I'm not coming across that way,
Speaker 1: but just just just factually, Conan's going to be in
Speaker 1: the news as there are some other famous people.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, now that being said, the reason that he is
Speaker 2: in the news the way he is, the giant he
Speaker 2: has become. And you talk about Smigel and I think
Speaker 2: about them, and I think about, you know, the camaraderie
Speaker 2: that they had back in the SNL days, and if
Speaker 2: they either of them, could have ever, ever, ever fathomed
Speaker 2: that this would happen to them and they would become
Speaker 2: the cultural icons that they are. Conan of course being
Speaker 2: the public one, Smigel, you know, being the genius, the
Speaker 2: creative genius behind the scenes, but you think about Conan
Speaker 2: and do you think even in his wildest dreams he
Speaker 2: takes over for David Letterman, that he would end up
Speaker 2: becoming who he has become.
Speaker 1: No, I can't, right, because if you just go back,
Speaker 1: it's wait, Lauren says, I can host twelve thirty, Okay, And.
Speaker 2: How long are you think?
Speaker 1: Are you thinking you're going to do that for fourteen years?
Speaker 1: Are you hoping it lasts a year? Three years? And
Speaker 1: then you go do what? And then and then hey,
Speaker 1: do you want to host the Tonight Show? Well, of
Speaker 1: course everyone wants to host the Tonight Show? Who doesn't
Speaker 1: want to host the Tonight Show? And then that rug
Speaker 1: gets pulled out of you? And then I know we
Speaker 1: have different opinions on the TBS years, you know, a
Speaker 1: little I mean less visible, Right, it's not this Tonight Show,
Speaker 1: It's TBS. But then this more recent act of both
Speaker 1: the podcast and then the great appearance as an Oscar host,
Speaker 1: the more Chwin Awards, he'll be back as the Oscars host.
Speaker 1: Now the Oscars itself is interesting because is it two
Speaker 1: years of Conan? And then because the Oscar's destiny is YouTube,
Speaker 1: and YouTube will want to put their own spin on it.
Speaker 1: And have he it's the whatever one hundred and second
Speaker 1: Oscars with your host, mister beast. You know. So Conan's
Speaker 1: not about to host the Oscars for the next ten years.
Speaker 1: He might do two or three. Do they go back
Speaker 1: to Kimmel one last time in ABC? And this gets
Speaker 1: me back to the if Jimmy Kimmel retires, you're my age,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do for the next fifteen twenty years?
Speaker 1: I know you have money, but you need something to do.
Speaker 1: You have to have a project, even if it's hosting
Speaker 1: Strike Force five. But like I don't see Jimmy Kimmel
Speaker 1: at you know, fifty five ish, just going home and
Speaker 1: doing nothing for twenty years. He needs something to do.
Speaker 1: Even David Letterman apparently needs something to do.
Speaker 2: Right, Hey, there's there's there's the name for the next
Speaker 2: the next Netflix show. David Letterman needs something to do.
Speaker 2: It would be not far off the mark. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean Conan is a giant. Him hosting the Oscars was again, yeah,
Speaker 2: cherry on top and in so many ways, and it's
Speaker 2: gonna be great to see him do it again. I
Speaker 2: look forward to everything that he's doing. We got three left,
Speaker 2: and you got four names I think three is going
Speaker 2: to combine two of those names. Okay, Now I'm a
Speaker 2: little biased with this one here, I fully admit it,
Speaker 2: but I still stand by it. The number three, uh
Speaker 2: you know, talk show host, the top ten talk show
Speaker 2: host of all time. Number three for me is Dick Cabot.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2: Now with me. Dick Cabot comes with somebody and it comes,
Speaker 2: he comes with his mentor, he comes with Jack Parr
Speaker 2: and I and and I want to talk about them
Speaker 2: at the same time because I believe again this list
Speaker 2: here has a whole bunch of people who are you know,
Speaker 2: kings or king makers whatnot. The last two are both combined.
Speaker 2: But but when you look at when you look at
Speaker 2: what Dick did, you know, he did compete against Johnny
Speaker 2: Carson number one, so he was an outstanding talk show
Speaker 2: host in his own his own you know respect. But
Speaker 2: he also was such a part of Jack Parr's show
Speaker 2: and was influenced so much by Jack Parr. And and
Speaker 2: and when you look at you know, his his reverence
Speaker 2: for Jack is just second to none. And I look
Speaker 2: at what Dick did and the combination of broadcaster intelligence
Speaker 2: stand up as well, he is absolutely a phenomenal player
Speaker 2: and carries on the spirit of Jack Parr. That's why
Speaker 2: I put Dick Cabot at number three. I know that
Speaker 2: there might be some people who want to start throwing
Speaker 2: stones at me with that one, but that's that's that's
Speaker 2: this is my list. It has nothing to do with
Speaker 2: the fact that Dick told me he liked me, nothing
Speaker 2: to do with that at all. But yeah, he's my
Speaker 2: number three.
Speaker 1: No, not absurd at all. Those were the two names.
Speaker 1: I was wondering which one you're going to lead leave off.
Speaker 2: Those were the two that were out there.
Speaker 1: Cavot, you know, in many ways a podcaster, right, the
Speaker 1: same conversation that we've had. I can't argue with it.
Speaker 1: It is Cavit show whacky. No, not at all, not
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 2: Nope, No, it had no wackiness to it. It was
Speaker 2: it was intelligent humor to be sure.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, I just realized, unless you've totally lost your mind,
Speaker 1: with two slots left, you have left Tom Snyder off
Speaker 1: your list.
Speaker 2: I did. Tom Snader is one of the honorable mentions.
Speaker 2: He's he's he just it was him, you know, And
Speaker 2: I mean I look at I look at him, I
Speaker 2: look at Charlie and it's the long form late night
Speaker 2: that I love that Dave does right now, but yet
Speaker 2: it is it is awful list. And Tom's one of
Speaker 2: those guys who who who? I just he was one
Speaker 2: of Dave's influences, and I think it's very obvious that
Speaker 2: he's one of Dave's influences. But yeah, he uh, Hey,
Speaker 2: there's only there's only ten slots, and you can't have everybody. Uh,
Speaker 2: you can't have everybody represented. Tom's one of the people
Speaker 2: that did not make the list.
Speaker 1: Now I'm hoping you're going for the clicks here and
Speaker 1: one of the last two slots is going to Magic
Speaker 1: Johnson or Cheffy Chase or and the Pat Say Jack
Speaker 1: and you know, the two left of Letterman and Pat
Speaker 1: say Jack, and then we can all hate on your list.
Speaker 2: Huh that's right, say Jack. I just uh, it's just
Speaker 2: the best punch line of all times. Pat Say Jack.
Speaker 2: I just love it.
Speaker 1: That show wasn't that bad. It just wasn't reason to exist.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't awful.
Speaker 2: Oh he was fine, but he you know, you talk
Speaker 2: about a guy who didn't connect. He didn't feel like
Speaker 2: he was connecting with it the way that that that
Speaker 2: that the hosts that we love connect with us so
Speaker 2: much like look at God. At Craig Ferguson, I felt
Speaker 2: a genuine connection with him. I felt that he was
Speaker 2: genuinely connecting with his guests. He had a genuine connection
Speaker 2: with the robot skeleton on the other side of the room.
Speaker 2: You look at Pat, say Jack, and I didn't feel
Speaker 2: that connection at all. The other honorable mention, by the way,
Speaker 2: of course, is mister Allan Thick, Canadian hero, mister Allen
Speaker 2: Thick for Thick of the Night. You know, he gets
Speaker 2: he gets an honorable mention. But yeah, No. Number two
Speaker 2: is Johnny number two, Johnny Carson yep.
Speaker 1: On the Letterman Podcast. Johnny Carson is only number two.
Speaker 1: That's wow, that's shocking.
Speaker 2: Most people who are who are who are enthusiasts of
Speaker 2: David Letterman, they say Johnny's number one. I I don't.
Speaker 2: But it's the same way that uh, you know again,
Speaker 2: I've used this example so many times the Godfather. You know,
Speaker 2: some people like Veto, some people like Michael Well, Michael
Speaker 2: took the thing and he carried it down the field
Speaker 2: farther and and and and was even more successful, you know,
Speaker 2: and and to me, Johnny Carson, he did that, and
Speaker 2: then the guy who makes number one went and did that,
Speaker 2: so so so Johnny took the ball, Johnny Carson. I mean, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, let's uh, let's give a little love
Speaker 2: to my boy, Mark Malcoff. I'm seeing stories every day
Speaker 2: online where like the Daily Mirror or US Weekly or whatever,
Speaker 2: Will will will tell an old Johnny Carson story. It's
Speaker 2: happening every day on the news, right. I love I
Speaker 2: love seeing this and it's all as a result of
Speaker 2: Mark's book being released, and they're seeing a newly released book,
Speaker 2: but our Mark Malcoff and telling a Johnny Carson Joonan
Speaker 2: River story or something like that. I could not be
Speaker 2: happier that we are in twenty twenty five and Johnny
Speaker 2: Carson is still getting buzz. It is such a beautiful,
Speaker 2: beautiful thing. Did you love Johnny growing up? So?
Speaker 1: Johnny was the thing I stared at killing time until
Speaker 1: twelve thirty. Right, So I come into Johnny backward because
Speaker 1: my godmother hasn't gotten me the VCR yet and I
Speaker 1: don't have cable TV, so what am I gonna do?
Speaker 1: So you start watching this Johnny Carson guy, and over time,
Speaker 1: you come to appreciate it, and I was really in
Speaker 1: on the end. Then as time goes on and you
Speaker 1: become older and more mature, and you go back and
Speaker 1: you just study the work because you're into these things,
Speaker 1: and you see the clips. And then when the metvs
Speaker 1: of the world were airing the older shows and you
Speaker 1: read the books, and I just came to really really
Speaker 1: appreciate everything about Johnny Carson, even more so than maybe
Speaker 1: the the the version that I saw in his sixties
Speaker 1: before he was walking away actually relatively young, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but yeah, no, I came to really appreciate Johnny.
Speaker 1: Obviously I love Dave where we wouldn't even be friends.
Speaker 1: But for me, you know, there's a nuclear emergency and
Speaker 1: we got to wake somebody up at three fifteen in
Speaker 1: the morning and go, dude, sorry to wake you. There's
Speaker 1: a set and you got to interview Mary Lou Henter
Speaker 1: and band, and I wrote a monologue for you, and
Speaker 1: just you got to execute a late night show. Right now,
Speaker 1: I would hand the ball to Johnny and know that
Speaker 1: I'm going to get a funny hour, whereas Dave I'd
Speaker 1: be on roller skates the entire time.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a great analogy. That's a great analogy. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a Yeah. You could set your watch to Johnny.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you really could, and he's just yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's cool reading the book actually because it came out,
Speaker 2: it's so weird that a book in twenty twenty five
Speaker 2: would be the perfect time to come out about Johnny Carson.
Speaker 2: But it really really is when you look at the
Speaker 2: perspective of what's happening in late night right now, and
Speaker 2: you read some of the stuff that Johnny went through,
Speaker 2: and late night is a show, but late night, late
Speaker 2: night is a genre. When you look at it, you know,
Speaker 2: there's these crazy quotes that come out of him, Johnny
Speaker 2: Carson that are in this book that are prophetic, you know,
Speaker 2: talking about how it's gonna expand and it's gonna have
Speaker 2: to contract and and and and Yeah. It's really I mean,
Speaker 2: Johnny Carson is the he is I want to say
Speaker 2: he's the goat, but he's the goat that that that
Speaker 2: that created the goat. Number one, of course, it's the
Speaker 2: Letterman podcast. I did. I did want to look at
Speaker 2: maybe looking at someone else, but there was just nobody
Speaker 2: other than Johnny who could have could have ever taken
Speaker 2: this spot. He is the number one, uh, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: broadcaster of all time. It's not even just a talk
Speaker 2: show host. In my opinion, David Letterman is the number
Speaker 2: one broadcaster of all time. And uh, you can go
Speaker 2: from every genre from the most ridiculous of the ridiculous,
Speaker 2: throwing stuff off the tower, to having phenomenal short and
Speaker 2: long form conversations with heads of state of the world
Speaker 2: and and everything in between.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Dave's the guy. You know, the fact that he inspired
Speaker 2: some Canadian uh you know, to out of his basement, Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, create a show in his name, who has
Speaker 2: no business in doing something like that. That's the inspiration.
Speaker 2: That's the kind of reach that Dave has. And it's
Speaker 2: still doing it. And he didn't he didn't stop. Johnny
Speaker 2: stopped and he and he kind of left the limelight.
Speaker 2: Dave hasn't done that. In fact, he has introduced so
Speaker 2: many people to so many different things because of who
Speaker 2: he is and where he is in this time and
Speaker 2: place in history. So David Letterman is, of course number one.
Speaker 1: He's clearly my favorite. You can't argue with it. You're
Speaker 1: putting a thought in my head about the walk Off
Speaker 1: by Johnny Carson, that we don't have the Johnny Carson
Speaker 1: Netflix series where he interviewed Andie Dickinson. You know, we
Speaker 1: don't have that, whereas we do have elder statesman Letterman.
Speaker 1: Now I'm really digging the openly political David Letterman. I
Speaker 1: think that's really really interesting. And again, oh, late night shows,
Speaker 1: late night knows, can't people go? Sure they can, absolutely
Speaker 1: they can, and they should be. I get the playing
Speaker 1: down the middle, I get it, but I also like
Speaker 1: to know what somebody is thinking. Not that you want
Speaker 1: to lose half the audience. I understand that argument. But
Speaker 1: this version of David Letterman where I don't care, I'll
Speaker 1: walk away from the table and leave my chips there,
Speaker 1: don't need him, don't care, and he can speak his
Speaker 1: mind to the current states of things. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: But back to the walk off, you just did a
Speaker 1: mental exercise for me. If I don't know, Dave goes, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not getting the Tonight show.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: Eddie just becomes a total recluse. And all I have
Speaker 1: in my mind are eleven seasons of a guy throwing
Speaker 1: watermelons off the tower. It would probably be like Eddie
Speaker 1: Murphy's comedy career that if you told me like, hey,
Speaker 1: Letterman's coming back and he's hosting on Netflix, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's going to be the most amazing
Speaker 1: thing ever. And then a guy with a white beer
Speaker 1: shows up and does a serious interview with Adam Sandler.
Speaker 1: It would be like, if Eddie Murphy ever returns to
Speaker 1: the stand up, it cannot possibly live up to what
Speaker 1: my mind needs the Beatles reunion to be. So maybe
Speaker 1: if Dave does do eleven and done, I'd be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, did you see this show? It's the
Speaker 1: most amazing thing that ever happened.
Speaker 2: And then he walked away. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it's funny. As you said that, I think
Speaker 2: about when Craig Ferguson left and it's almost similar to, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: Craig Ferguson decides he doesn't you know, he left late night.
Speaker 2: It's it's very similar to that, and uh oh yeah
Speaker 2: that's got me thinking too that, Yeah, that's that's a
Speaker 2: fantastic analogy. That's exactly right. If Dave would have done that,
Speaker 2: it's funny, like like I'm trying to remember who oh.
Speaker 2: Senator Al Franken in the last month, the last six weeks,
Speaker 2: else El Franken was on and he was a senator
Speaker 2: at the time, and he said to Dave, he said,
Speaker 2: he said, before you go off and become an eccentric recluse.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people thought that that's
Speaker 2: exactly what Dave was gonna do, and and and it's
Speaker 2: funny like I I'm into Billie Eilish. The reason I'm
Speaker 2: into Billy Eilish is because she was on Dave's My
Speaker 2: Next Guest show. You know, But people ask me what
Speaker 2: my favorite next guest uh is of all time? And
Speaker 2: until I saw Bateman, I had an answer, and then
Speaker 2: Bateman kind of Bateman might be my number one of
Speaker 2: all time. But then I went and saw Dave Chapelle's special,
Speaker 2: and the guy who Bateman replaced went back up, and
Speaker 2: Dave Chappelle is my favorite letterman of all time, and
Speaker 2: and and and uh my next guest, I should say,
Speaker 2: of all time. And part of it, I think is
Speaker 2: because when Dave does start talking to people with opinions
Speaker 2: about things he we start to get glimpses of what
Speaker 2: Dave's opinion on the same subject are. And we always
Speaker 2: liked that. We always liked when a guest back in
Speaker 2: the day would say something to Dave and make him
Speaker 2: answer a personal question, and we the audience loved that
Speaker 2: right because it didn't happen very often because of how
Speaker 2: private he is. And in this way, I think my
Speaker 2: next guest does it as well. It brings out some
Speaker 2: of those political things. To me, Dave is always a
Speaker 2: common sense guy. His barometer for make making fun of
Speaker 2: a politician or something like that didn't go off until
Speaker 2: the common sense part. As soon as the common sense
Speaker 2: part went into the red now it's like, okay, we're
Speaker 2: just gonna open it up. But yeah, that's a good
Speaker 2: point that you made about that. I really love that now.
Speaker 1: And there's something too walking off. I think when Howard
Speaker 1: Stern's career is said and done, there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: strong argument for whatever Day already lang and needed to
Speaker 1: leave the show should have been the last episode of
Speaker 1: the Howard Stern Show. I'm not sure that this this
Speaker 1: late period Howard stuff is doing justice to the Howard
Speaker 1: Stern legacy.
Speaker 2: I know, man like, like he just signed up for
Speaker 2: is it three years? Another three years? Yeah? Yeah, so
Speaker 2: he's not retiring essentially. That's what that tells me is
Speaker 2: that he's just not gonna retire. He's just gonna keep
Speaker 2: going and doing it because it's what he knows, what
Speaker 2: he loves. I think he still loves it. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've I haven't listened to a ton of the current stuff.
Speaker 2: It seems like he enjoy having thoughtful conversations with people.
Speaker 2: But when you think back to what brought him to
Speaker 2: the dance and how you know, I'll you know, oh,
Speaker 2: I see these two girls, you know, I want to
Speaker 2: bang them both. Like that was that was That was
Speaker 2: the stuff he used to say every single day, and
Speaker 2: that's what brought him to it, And his evolution is
Speaker 2: very interesting. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, Like, like,
Speaker 2: is it comforting? Is it comfort food? Da've talked about Johnny,
Speaker 2: how Johnny would tuck people in every night and it
Speaker 2: was just one of those things. Is Howard stirned comfort
Speaker 2: food to a lot of people? Is that that part
Speaker 2: of it?
Speaker 1: I don't think so, because I think those of us
Speaker 1: that grew up on Howard that Howard's gone, Johnny was
Speaker 1: still Johnny. You know, you could swap out an episode
Speaker 1: from nineteen eighty six with one from nineteen seventy four. Yep,
Speaker 1: and maybe it was a half hour shorter, but it
Speaker 1: was the same show. Yeah, that looked a little newer,
Speaker 1: that was it. It was the same show, whereas what
Speaker 1: Howard's doing now has you know, Robin and Fred are there,
Speaker 1: but other than that, it's not really the same show
Speaker 1: from you know, pick a Day in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love when Dave and Howard have conversations, like,
Speaker 2: I love there's an episode of I would love to
Speaker 2: hear hear Dave and Howard have another conversation, a current one.
Speaker 2: I don't think they've talked in a while, in a
Speaker 2: year anyway, something like that. I love. I love when
Speaker 2: they talk. One of the things that those two both
Speaker 2: have in common is they have the ability to get
Speaker 2: people to start talking about things that they don't want
Speaker 2: to talk about. Both of them have that ability. What
Speaker 2: do you think that is? Like you've been in radio
Speaker 2: for a long time, Like when you have a host,
Speaker 2: Alex Bena, I can do the same thing. Actually, when
Speaker 2: you have a host who has the ability to start
Speaker 2: eliciting stuff that the person that they're talking to didn't
Speaker 2: necessarily intend on talking about. What is that causes that.
Speaker 1: So it's a combination of charisma, prep, doing the prep
Speaker 1: and taking the time to get the guest in a
Speaker 1: place where they're comfortable. So if I have you on
Speaker 1: to come out Gangbusters and go my host the Letterman podcast,
Speaker 1: you have Johnny Carson at number two, that's ridiculous. You know,
Speaker 1: I've started off from an antagonistic point of view, whereas
Speaker 1: if I hang out with you for forty minutes, and
Speaker 1: especially if I can talk to you about the thing
Speaker 1: you're very passionate about, that's not this. So hey, Mikeaul's
Speaker 1: on your Facebook page yesterday I saw you out with
Speaker 1: your granddaughter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you know, what were you guys up to?
Speaker 2: What was that like?
Speaker 1: And you know I could just tell from your Facebook posts,
Speaker 1: you know this is something that's This is someone who
Speaker 1: is tremendously important to you. And so I could talk
Speaker 1: to you about her for twenty minutes and get you
Speaker 1: to open up. And now our body language has gone
Speaker 1: from this to kind of leaning back in the chair
Speaker 1: and just two people having a conversation, and now I
Speaker 1: can ask you about you know that really terrible thing
Speaker 1: in your life that you don't really open up about
Speaker 1: but where. But but it's not my opener. And that's
Speaker 1: what Howard's good at. And this is why he has
Speaker 1: guests on for an hour and you sit in the
Speaker 1: comfy sofa and you get a little comfortable with the
Speaker 1: gang and it's not a threatening thing. And you know,
Speaker 1: but that plus charisma, plus the repuds of the show,
Speaker 1: and he is a very good interviewer. It's just not
Speaker 1: the reason those of us who bought Howard stern stock
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five bought it.
Speaker 2: Right now, that makes a lot of sense. So that's
Speaker 2: the list. That's the list list, not too not too controversial, right,
Speaker 2: a good list. Zone Rivers gets an honorable mention, So
Speaker 2: DOA's Tom he gets an honorable mention of course as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but anyway, that was it. Yeah, it was hard not
Speaker 2: to get. The hardest part was was shoe warning. How
Speaker 2: can I talk about Colbert and how can I talk
Speaker 2: about Parr? But like having both Alan and Parr on
Speaker 2: and Carson on and Jay on, you know, that was
Speaker 2: just it was it was just it was it was
Speaker 2: a bridge that was just it was too it was
Speaker 2: too heavy on the bridge. So one of them, one
Speaker 2: of them had to But three Tonight Show lists on
Speaker 2: the top ten list, there's three who goes to the
Speaker 2: Tonight Show? So but yeah, I uh, I can't wait
Speaker 2: till you watch the Sandler episode.
Speaker 1: There's four four, who's a I want to know Brian host?
Speaker 2: How dare you? Sir?
Speaker 1: How dare you?
Speaker 2: You? Unbelievable? I said that too. It was like something
Speaker 2: felt weird when I said it. Oh my god, that's the.
Speaker 1: Jay Leno of podcasters. That's who you are cutting it there.
Speaker 1: Mike laughed at that line there at the end, and
Speaker 1: we moved on to some other topics. But I'm I'm
Speaker 1: saving that part of the conversation for a completely different
Speaker 1: episode on one of these January weekends. I hope you're
Speaker 1: enjoying these conversations with Mike. We're hoping to do a
Speaker 1: bunch of these. Enjoy talking to him, and we can
Speaker 1: talk forever. This raw session was two and a half hours.
Speaker 1: Anytime we're together, we just go and go and go.
Speaker 1: So he's Mike Chisseingy hosts a Letterman podcast. Mike you, Mike,
Speaker 1: thank you for your time, and I'll meet everybody back
Speaker 1: here tomorrow.